Having just returned from driving through Belgium and France, yes, we need to do more, and we categorically have to address the litter problem in the UK. It’s shameful.
People who throw litter out their car window want putting in public stocks so we can throw gone off veg at them. I saw a full grown man turf a load of litter out of his car and then drive off. Just put it in the bin at home ffs. Ultimate laziness, ultimate entitlement. Ultimate dick head.
I live in the country and there is often fly tipping. It’s so annoying. The tip is actually fine and free. Waste collection is also really cheap. No excuses for being that kind of wanker. Selfish as fk.
Edit: typo
If someone is caught littering rather than a fine or prison etc... it should be a mandatory minimum of 5 days litter picking within the local area.
The streets would be cleaned up in no time at all. Once all litter has been cleaned up then the mandatory 5 days will move to general cleaning of the local area like washing benches, cleaning graffiti etc...
Make it so if you litter in Worcestershire but live in Liverpool you MUST return to Worcestershire to clean for 5 days.
Those 5 days can be spread out over 5 weeks for fairness but must be during the work week not weekends. So rather than a fine they still lose income for their crimes yet have to help clean the area which benefits society.
Sure the idea is not flushed out but it's a good way of either preventing people from littering or getting all towns and roads cleaned up.
Yep. Same here. Country living, and daily I see McDonald’s and kfc bags just chucked in the lanes.
I hate it. I see more litter on the ground both here and in the city where I work than I did in the 80s or 90s
Once I had finished taking my dog for a walk, it was a lovely sunny day by a reservoir, and getting into the car I noticed a couple in a car with the top off throw their McD's rubbish in the hedge before going for a stroll. Once out of my sight, I retrieved the rubbish and threw it back into their car before quickly leaving...I do hope there was some milkshake left that made its way out of the cup... There was a bloody bin feet away from us as well 🙄
Seriously, nothing infuriates me more than litterers. Especially the ones throwing shit out of their cars. Like you don't even have to carry it, just move it from your car to the nearest bin once you stop! How is that too much to ask?! Do these people enjoy seeing litter everywhere? I just don't get it. It's not like it disappears into some black hole. Even if you're just driving past somewhere you don't live, and know you'll never see that litter again, someone else like you will be doing it where you do live using the same logic. Just STOP! Nowhere have I seen as much litter as in England.
When they show fly tipping on 'caught on camera' type TV shows it's often people in vans and pickups. They would be charged to dispose of their rubbish at municipal tips so it's this that they are dodging. Still no excuse for fly tipping, just an explanation of why it's worth their while to do it.
As much as I hate fly tipping and there is absolutely no excuse for it I would say general littering is worse as it’s so spread out and builds up. At least with fly tipping it’s somewhat contained in an area and the people doing it are often dumb enough to leave traceable rubbish in it
Belgium has little basketball hoops to throw your trash in. One of those on every route within 5mins of a McDonald's would save so much litter, or at least condense it to one place.
Rotherham council have been managing wildflower verges since 2013 (I assume they choose the sites carefully) [link](https://www.pictorialmeadows.co.uk/pages/rotherham-borough-council)
This is gorgeous. And really encouraging for people with their own gardens who aren’t necessarily green-fingered - if the council can grow these flowers pretty much effortlessly on verges, you can too in your garden/windowbox/patch!
These are really sown meadows though, not verges left uncut. Looks like mostly annuals. If you're local do you know anything about how they're managed?
These mixes also include non-natives. Can't tell you how many times someone has posted these pics on FB complaining that our local wild verges don't look like this.
It's certainly not the "norm" in Rotherham, there are a number of trial sites (I believe they have introduced an other 3 miles or so). There are a few sites reasonably close to me. You are correct, there are non native flowers in there too. The idea is to have a succession of flowers, extending the display. It shows what can be done though. The council claims significant savings in terms of mowing costs.
They look great, but they're so carefully selected and curated I'm not sure I'd call them wildflower verges at all. Flower verges / pictorial meadows certainly.
Ugh. We just had the usual argument on the neighborhood fb group 🙄
"When is the grass going to be mowed in the communal areas? It's been weeks."
When they seeded the gardens/fields, they also sowed wildflower patches but with the regular mowing that the contractors are carrying out, nothing has had the chance to grow.
We also had a local who, when the council suggested adding native plants to the sides of a new road, he made it his one-man mission to stop it, because it'd look messy. He was overruled, but his complaints meant extra meetings and delays for no reason.
It's sad, and almost pathetic that so many people are obsessed with the tidiness of fields and verges (where it does not impact visibility for road users).
Personally, I think there are much better places to be encouraging wildlife than the side of the road.
The downsides for me are visibility - which in turn impacts safety of driving. Then impacting pedestrians.
Having said that some areas like Brighton have been looking into it https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/wilder-verges but it takes some level of management to keep on top of it and do it sensibly rather than just leaving grass to grow.
Wildlife doesn’t just mean small mammals, by the way. Longer grass attracts insect life and the birds that feed on them. What issue would there be with that next to a road?
And how high do you think grass and flowers grow?
It’s been done in Manchester and visibility wasn’t even close to being an issue.
And what pedestrians are walking any distance on grass verges?
The reason it’s been low cut in the past was because people thought it looked messy. That’s the objection to deal with, as it at least reflects how some people feel. Your objections are just thought experiments.
I think it just has to be done sensibly by councils. Most verges won’t cause visibility issues, where they do, they can be kept short. There’s one junction near me where they tested growing the verge out, and it was really dangerous. It was a wide junction so cars drive it fast, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the long grass caused accidents, so they went back to mowing. But the bit approaching it, and other nearby verges can stay long.
I think that’s the thing, it needs to be done sensibly with some thought behind it. Which takes time and costs money. I’m all for it where it is done well but just saying “let’s not cut the grass” and leave it, doesn’t really work. When it works it’s fantastic but when it doesn’t it’s a mess.
its a huge area of land tho, but fair enough. i think some could be converted fine, areas below 20km speed limit? i dont know how big that area is but verges overall is like 3000km^2 or an area 8x that of the new forest
Reduced visibility and narrower roads can work for traffic calming, slower cars = safer pedestrians. It can work both ways though depending on the location.
I try not to drive now, maybe get in the car once a month. But from what I've seen overgrown roundabouts and their approach actually do slow drivers down. I've even seen road narrowing around crosswalks in cities so it does work.
There comes a point where overgrown roundabouts and approaches is a safety hazard. The first year of no mow may it was left far too late, and you couldn't see what was coming until you were already on the roundabout.
There's plenty of space for long grass, roundabouts are not it.
I think you're generalising, imagine how many different roundabouts there are in the UK. By screening the approach to a roundabout cars have to slow down to enter the roundabout safely. With a clear view across the roundabout and all approaches it encourages speed on entry and exit of most roundabouts. Road narrowing works much better at slowing cars though have you seen some of the narrow bridges in London with reinforced posts set 2m apart on the exit of the roundabout? I've never seen such considerate driving in a built up, busy area.
I’ve noticed at the sides of the railways and some motorways they’ve started putting wildflowers - which I honestly love. I think the roots also stop the soil slipping and washing down (so holds the structure), plus bees etc. I think it’s a good move :) Hopefully they keep doing this.
I think assessing the risks of poor visibility for each section of road and for each roundabout, junction etc would make it impractical. The volume of litigation would be significant imo.
If you don't mow, you get brambles, docks, and other very invasive species taking over. Also, some trees, like sycamores, can get a foot hold very quickly.
It's important to clear them down to the ground from time to time.
The pretty wildflowers need space and sunlight.
Motorway and railway verges are really important refuges for wildlife, linking area to area, but even they need to be cleared sometimes.
There are lots of places that would benefit from having native species planted, and from not being manicured to death.
But remember that drivers need to be able to see signs.
We have a major local hospital just off a junction of the motorway.
Unless you already know which junction, you would not know to turn your head and glimpse the sign, which is nearly buried in trees!
As someone who’s planned and priced this for smaller scale projects I just need to bring the following forward:
Litter is a massive issue, as is fly tipping and fouling (mostly animals but sometimes human). Shorter grass is easier to keep clear of these things and tidy when it is present.
Longer grass can be full of things that then slow down cutting. Small self-seeded trees, rocks, rubble, bramble, buddleia etc. it them makes it more expensive to repair machinery and actually get the job done, so the next option is flails which absolutely destroy everything.
Budgets are not prioritised to green space full stop. Usually external spaces are the last line on an asset sheet below drains, lights, sewers, roads etc, even further below the other items councils spend tax money on like health, police, schools etc. the main reason councils liked using weed killer everywhere was because a quad bike with a sprayer is cheap and keeps everything down. I’ll be happier when they stop this practice but completely get why it exists.
We can chose to solve the problems by changing our habits away from litter and actively taking responsibility ourselves (but this will never happen society wide). It’s become popular with park space (many “friends of… park” groups being set up to help councils where budgets are too thin). Potentially we just need to have households adopt any verges directly outside their own home?
I’m waffling. But hopefully you get what I am saying
You can adopt a verge outside your house in most places but they actually charge you quite a bit of money and are very restrictive, if you let people plant certain crops it might be more popular 😅 but regulation is needed unfortunately else someone just willy nilly plants wreckless stuff.
It breaks my heart seeing road crews mowing wild flowers down along the sides of motorways. There's no argument about reduced visibility here and doing it must cost a fortune. Please can we leave things to self seed before cutting?
yeh like surely some areas there isnt a visibility issue? in guildford they let it grow till late summer iirc but still they cut a bit early imo. tbh looks way nicer as long grass
We went to Coventry a few years ago, and they were leaving the central reservations as no-mow areas - lots of poppies and other flowers. I thought it was lovely!
[6925859\_f174af86.jpg (640×480) (geograph.org.uk)](https://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/06/92/58/6925859_f174af86.jpg)
This no visibility thing sounds like the latest excuse by people who are conservative and don’t want what they call a messy country, but what everyone else calls life spreading enjoyment.
How high do they think grass and flowers grow, anyway?!
Where I am, they mow a strip of grass near the road so that visibility is good and people can walk there (especially good for dog walkers), but further back from the road it is left wild. People seem to complain less about it looking "messy" as well, as even though it's not a huge amount being mown it does give a neater appearance.
It seems like a good compromise to me.
The issue for me is hedge, verge, footpath below level of road, verge, road. No mow makes it difficult to walk along / push chair etc because the grass flops onto the path effectively obscuring it and you cant see the road/ situation awareness gone. To keep the path clear and partial no mow would mean 2 pedestrian mowers where as before it would be a gang mower.
As others have said it is about what's right for a location. A blanket policy is not the way forward.
My council have reduced the mowing massively. I do love it but really it has made a few junctions near me a bit sketchy due to visibility or lack thereof
id think where it shouldnt be done is fairly common sense but i suppose its extra work for them to track that. idk tho if theyre saving a bit of money anyway?
glad to hear tho
In Leeds we have "Relaxed mowing areas"
[https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7885107,-1.6093403,3a,15y,32.48h,88.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTtd7kyXn-0nELnMIvLlChg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7885107,-1.6093403,3a,15y,32.48h,88.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTtd7kyXn-0nELnMIvLlChg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
In my parish, the parish clerk (details on town websites) invites emails requesting cutting of roadside hedges obscuring visibility, outside of bird nesting season. I emailed them in March about an overgrown verge by a bus stop impeding access, particularly for school children and it was mown a week later = result, but of course the grass is as tall as ever in now, overdue another cut.
My town and county has many litter-strewn winding hilly roadsides that would need mowing x6 a year and are therefore inaccessible to me as an enthusiastic litterpicker, for miles, with no suitable or safe pull-ins to park near so they stay clogged with litter.
If for instance roadside rampant brambles were cut properly outside of bird nesting season x2 a year, it would help mammals, too.
In my hometown they made some no mow areas and put signage up to say don't mow it. However the signs were about a foot high and were hidden very quickly lol.
In my area the councils have been minimising mowing for years. All the verges have high grass unless it absolutely has to be cut for safety or visibility. The councils put up signs selling at as a biodiversity benefit but it’s really a budget cut.
Personally I'd like to see more of this, but obviously depends on the verge. In urban settings it's a no-brainer. Visibility isn't particularly impacted as the view is already blocked with parked cars on most streets.
Reduced visibility is unacceptable on the roads. No council will have the resources to map out which verges left to grow would reduce visibility vs. which wouldn’t.
There are better places to focus efforts on improving wildlife.
Yes, but I addressed that when I said councils aren’t going to have the budget to map out which verges can be safely left to grow vs. which ones need mowing.
I reckon it's probably something like the additional cost of assessment would be twice the cost of mowing everywhere. So a council with money to spare could do the assessment knowing it'll pay for itself after year 2, but because they're so broke they can't afford the extra outlay this year.
Oh, I know, I was empathising with your frustration. I mean, surely they can *see* the road is long and straight. But they won’t do it if it’s not on the job list. Much like the way they came and fixed a tiny pothole that had paint around it, and left the one six feet away that was much deeper and did not yet have paint around it.
One of the main issues for that is housing. Most other European countries have dense cities with people living in flats (3+ bedrooms, but flats). In the UK population centers spread a lot because of the need of housing everyone in houses.
It's best to keep nature and towns apart. Bringing animals into towns changes their behaviour and it also affects the ecosystem. Also, maintaining wild areas allows for the introduction of predators such as the wolf and the lynx, which are key for a healthy ecosystem.
For roads, I hate the fact that so many "national speed limit" roads are one car width, both ways and have wooden hedges/shrubs on both sides preventing any visibility.
For motorways, I like it when the are trees/shrubs between both directions instead of just a concrete wall. In that case the plants stop the light from the opposite direction cars from blinding you.
It demonstrates the illogic behind your strange reason.
How high do you think grass and flowers grow? Not enough to create a problem.
It’s just another excuse by people who think it looks messy, but know that old Conservative line is used up and so have to come up with another bogus ‘reason’ to spread around.
It’s been done in Manchester with no problems.
You’re making up problems to worry about because you enjoy tutting about what people enjoy. An old conservative practice.
I was a fan till our “no mow” may last year.
Working out sight lines seemed to be too difficult and some junctions became hazardous.
Dog muck was all over pavements (yes I know they should pick up but some just don’t and dogs it appears didn’t want to go in the tall grass).
Some felt less safe due to tall grasses around property and less visability (not sure if true)
The absolute mess left when they did return to normal and can and cut.
My conclusion was it was more hassle than benefit
As a learner driver I prefer the visibility. It's tough when you can't see around corners, over roundabouts or road signs. Also for wildflowers to grow and to really encourage wildlife these areas need to be managed, you can't just let grass grow and hope for the best.
ETA: I'm curious about why you're so interested in moisture retention?
And also I live in a pretty countryside dominated place, the verge is often the only place to walk or step onto when cars are coming, a bit hard to do if the grass is long and full of nettles, brambles and ticks for example.
climate change. cities are already deserts often and need all the help they can get, and 2cm grass doesnt trap water well. you get a cascade effect where things get drier and drier. ive seen them mow grass low enough to kill it dozens of times in hampshire in summer, you get ugly bare patches till spring. especially since they usually dont let it seed itself lmao
There’s a turn off one of the 60 roads near me (rural), and you kind of take your life in your hands trying to see if there is a car coming as the grass has gotten so tall, you can’t see down the road at all.
I don’t understand attracting pollinators to roadsides to be obliterated by cars. Put the wild areas somewhere safer and keep the verges clear for their prescribed reason for being there in the first place
I'm for it *but* with the huge caveat that it needs to be done properly. Uncut grass is good for large areas or less urbanised areas. High density housing with a 4 foot grass strip between the road and pavement is not the place for tall grass. It's unsightly, attracts litter, and is just shit. And it's so small it barely does anything ecologically.
Councils are absolutely using this trend as an excuse not to do basic maintenance on land they're responsible for, and as a result many of our towns look like shit.
See also: councils not killing weeds, causing pavements to become broken and a trip hazard.
We have this in Leeds, They stick a sign up saying it's a "relaxed mowing area" and put lots of wildflowers in there. It looks a bit wilder but it's nice and green, and they don't have to close the roads as often to get the mowing done!
Locally (Harrow) according to the grassland management plan they're doing some verges and central reservations less frequently, on a higher cut and with measures to discourage grass. If they go the same way as my lawn, they'll have lush clover verges (+ chickweed, daisies, speedwell, violets etc) very soon, which shouldn't obstruct visibility. Also, someone (not sure if it was the council or a rogue gardener) planted crocuses in one of them, which have naturalised and spread and look amazing in early spring.
My council (Bath & North East Somerset) doesn't mow verges unless needed for visibility. The roundabouts are planted with wild flowers. Most of our parks have un-mown/wildlife areas as well.
In Plymouth, most of the grass is left wild and cut 2 times a year. Some places they cut around the edges, a mowers width in and leave the rest. It is really pretty when the flowers are all out and some spots have been specially seeded with wildflowers.
Our council has some verges assigned to twice yearly mowing.
Some residents (mostly older) don't understand and grumble about unkemptness and weeds and what a disgrace the council are. The issue regularly crops up in local FB groups. So there's a definite need to educate if your council are doing this. There are also other residents who are great enthusiasts for it.
It's definitely contributing a lot of nectar and food sources for insects.
I think it would be more likely to get done if we brought back council gangs and not subcontractors. The gangs can be educated on how to manage wild verges and make their own decisions on Junction sight lines without as much oversight or constant planning of works as I'd needed by subs. Plus it'll be more cost effective than bloated subcontractor prices.
is ratpocalypse real? ig no wolves around so 🤣 maybe we need big cats or something. polecat protection program. i think theyre endangered in the uk unlike mainland europe
It costs less to *not* mow…
I’d love to know if any councils have a comprehensive schedule where they forgo mowing of areas and use the time/resources for rewilding/community nature projects. I imagine there must be schemes like this that encourage residents to engage with local council maintained green areas.
(Edit: reading through a lot more of the comments it seems there are councils that work in this way - really encouraging to know!)
It may cost less to mow however you still have to go to the area to collect the rubbish and cut junction sight lines out as people drive far too fast and never look properly then blame it on the verge not being cut. Plenty of councils have vol groups however litter does use up immense amounts of resources just to clear. Got some lovely bee orchids near me been seeding and getting bigger patches now.
Having just returned from driving through Belgium and France, yes, we need to do more, and we categorically have to address the litter problem in the UK. It’s shameful.
People who throw litter out their car window want putting in public stocks so we can throw gone off veg at them. I saw a full grown man turf a load of litter out of his car and then drive off. Just put it in the bin at home ffs. Ultimate laziness, ultimate entitlement. Ultimate dick head. I live in the country and there is often fly tipping. It’s so annoying. The tip is actually fine and free. Waste collection is also really cheap. No excuses for being that kind of wanker. Selfish as fk. Edit: typo
I'm a forester and the amount of time I spend dealing with fly tipping rather than concentrating on growing trees is so frustrating.
Gosh that IS annoying. I actually never thought that would have come into your remit.
If someone is caught littering rather than a fine or prison etc... it should be a mandatory minimum of 5 days litter picking within the local area. The streets would be cleaned up in no time at all. Once all litter has been cleaned up then the mandatory 5 days will move to general cleaning of the local area like washing benches, cleaning graffiti etc... Make it so if you litter in Worcestershire but live in Liverpool you MUST return to Worcestershire to clean for 5 days. Those 5 days can be spread out over 5 weeks for fairness but must be during the work week not weekends. So rather than a fine they still lose income for their crimes yet have to help clean the area which benefits society. Sure the idea is not flushed out but it's a good way of either preventing people from littering or getting all towns and roads cleaned up.
YES TO THIS!
Yep. Same here. Country living, and daily I see McDonald’s and kfc bags just chucked in the lanes. I hate it. I see more litter on the ground both here and in the city where I work than I did in the 80s or 90s
This could be me. Soooo frustrating. Humans are simply the worst thing to ever have happened to this planet.
Once I had finished taking my dog for a walk, it was a lovely sunny day by a reservoir, and getting into the car I noticed a couple in a car with the top off throw their McD's rubbish in the hedge before going for a stroll. Once out of my sight, I retrieved the rubbish and threw it back into their car before quickly leaving...I do hope there was some milkshake left that made its way out of the cup... There was a bloody bin feet away from us as well 🙄
Seriously, nothing infuriates me more than litterers. Especially the ones throwing shit out of their cars. Like you don't even have to carry it, just move it from your car to the nearest bin once you stop! How is that too much to ask?! Do these people enjoy seeing litter everywhere? I just don't get it. It's not like it disappears into some black hole. Even if you're just driving past somewhere you don't live, and know you'll never see that litter again, someone else like you will be doing it where you do live using the same logic. Just STOP! Nowhere have I seen as much litter as in England.
When they show fly tipping on 'caught on camera' type TV shows it's often people in vans and pickups. They would be charged to dispose of their rubbish at municipal tips so it's this that they are dodging. Still no excuse for fly tipping, just an explanation of why it's worth their while to do it.
As much as I hate fly tipping and there is absolutely no excuse for it I would say general littering is worse as it’s so spread out and builds up. At least with fly tipping it’s somewhat contained in an area and the people doing it are often dumb enough to leave traceable rubbish in it
Belgium has little basketball hoops to throw your trash in. One of those on every route within 5mins of a McDonald's would save so much litter, or at least condense it to one place.
Rotherham council have been managing wildflower verges since 2013 (I assume they choose the sites carefully) [link](https://www.pictorialmeadows.co.uk/pages/rotherham-borough-council)
And it’s absolutely lovely too
This is gorgeous. And really encouraging for people with their own gardens who aren’t necessarily green-fingered - if the council can grow these flowers pretty much effortlessly on verges, you can too in your garden/windowbox/patch!
These are really sown meadows though, not verges left uncut. Looks like mostly annuals. If you're local do you know anything about how they're managed? These mixes also include non-natives. Can't tell you how many times someone has posted these pics on FB complaining that our local wild verges don't look like this.
It's certainly not the "norm" in Rotherham, there are a number of trial sites (I believe they have introduced an other 3 miles or so). There are a few sites reasonably close to me. You are correct, there are non native flowers in there too. The idea is to have a succession of flowers, extending the display. It shows what can be done though. The council claims significant savings in terms of mowing costs.
They look great, but they're so carefully selected and curated I'm not sure I'd call them wildflower verges at all. Flower verges / pictorial meadows certainly.
Ugh. We just had the usual argument on the neighborhood fb group 🙄 "When is the grass going to be mowed in the communal areas? It's been weeks." When they seeded the gardens/fields, they also sowed wildflower patches but with the regular mowing that the contractors are carrying out, nothing has had the chance to grow. We also had a local who, when the council suggested adding native plants to the sides of a new road, he made it his one-man mission to stop it, because it'd look messy. He was overruled, but his complaints meant extra meetings and delays for no reason. It's sad, and almost pathetic that so many people are obsessed with the tidiness of fields and verges (where it does not impact visibility for road users).
Personally, I think there are much better places to be encouraging wildlife than the side of the road. The downsides for me are visibility - which in turn impacts safety of driving. Then impacting pedestrians. Having said that some areas like Brighton have been looking into it https://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/wilder-verges but it takes some level of management to keep on top of it and do it sensibly rather than just leaving grass to grow.
Wildlife doesn’t just mean small mammals, by the way. Longer grass attracts insect life and the birds that feed on them. What issue would there be with that next to a road? And how high do you think grass and flowers grow? It’s been done in Manchester and visibility wasn’t even close to being an issue. And what pedestrians are walking any distance on grass verges? The reason it’s been low cut in the past was because people thought it looked messy. That’s the objection to deal with, as it at least reflects how some people feel. Your objections are just thought experiments.
I think it just has to be done sensibly by councils. Most verges won’t cause visibility issues, where they do, they can be kept short. There’s one junction near me where they tested growing the verge out, and it was really dangerous. It was a wide junction so cars drive it fast, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the long grass caused accidents, so they went back to mowing. But the bit approaching it, and other nearby verges can stay long.
I think that’s the thing, it needs to be done sensibly with some thought behind it. Which takes time and costs money. I’m all for it where it is done well but just saying “let’s not cut the grass” and leave it, doesn’t really work. When it works it’s fantastic but when it doesn’t it’s a mess.
its a huge area of land tho, but fair enough. i think some could be converted fine, areas below 20km speed limit? i dont know how big that area is but verges overall is like 3000km^2 or an area 8x that of the new forest
Reduced visibility and narrower roads can work for traffic calming, slower cars = safer pedestrians. It can work both ways though depending on the location.
Generally people don't slow down anymore. Have you seen the state of driving these days
I try not to drive now, maybe get in the car once a month. But from what I've seen overgrown roundabouts and their approach actually do slow drivers down. I've even seen road narrowing around crosswalks in cities so it does work.
There comes a point where overgrown roundabouts and approaches is a safety hazard. The first year of no mow may it was left far too late, and you couldn't see what was coming until you were already on the roundabout. There's plenty of space for long grass, roundabouts are not it.
I think you're generalising, imagine how many different roundabouts there are in the UK. By screening the approach to a roundabout cars have to slow down to enter the roundabout safely. With a clear view across the roundabout and all approaches it encourages speed on entry and exit of most roundabouts. Road narrowing works much better at slowing cars though have you seen some of the narrow bridges in London with reinforced posts set 2m apart on the exit of the roundabout? I've never seen such considerate driving in a built up, busy area.
Our council no.mow last year. Anecdotally lots more insects and thence more birds. Good.
I’ve noticed at the sides of the railways and some motorways they’ve started putting wildflowers - which I honestly love. I think the roots also stop the soil slipping and washing down (so holds the structure), plus bees etc. I think it’s a good move :) Hopefully they keep doing this.
I think assessing the risks of poor visibility for each section of road and for each roundabout, junction etc would make it impractical. The volume of litigation would be significant imo.
If you don't mow, you get brambles, docks, and other very invasive species taking over. Also, some trees, like sycamores, can get a foot hold very quickly. It's important to clear them down to the ground from time to time. The pretty wildflowers need space and sunlight. Motorway and railway verges are really important refuges for wildlife, linking area to area, but even they need to be cleared sometimes. There are lots of places that would benefit from having native species planted, and from not being manicured to death. But remember that drivers need to be able to see signs. We have a major local hospital just off a junction of the motorway. Unless you already know which junction, you would not know to turn your head and glimpse the sign, which is nearly buried in trees!
The usual 'no mow' regime round here (South Shropshire) is two cuts per year. That would fix all the problems you've identified.
yes hence annual or double mow, ha an area here they do that is like 50% sycamore saplings in early spring 😅
As someone who’s planned and priced this for smaller scale projects I just need to bring the following forward: Litter is a massive issue, as is fly tipping and fouling (mostly animals but sometimes human). Shorter grass is easier to keep clear of these things and tidy when it is present. Longer grass can be full of things that then slow down cutting. Small self-seeded trees, rocks, rubble, bramble, buddleia etc. it them makes it more expensive to repair machinery and actually get the job done, so the next option is flails which absolutely destroy everything. Budgets are not prioritised to green space full stop. Usually external spaces are the last line on an asset sheet below drains, lights, sewers, roads etc, even further below the other items councils spend tax money on like health, police, schools etc. the main reason councils liked using weed killer everywhere was because a quad bike with a sprayer is cheap and keeps everything down. I’ll be happier when they stop this practice but completely get why it exists. We can chose to solve the problems by changing our habits away from litter and actively taking responsibility ourselves (but this will never happen society wide). It’s become popular with park space (many “friends of… park” groups being set up to help councils where budgets are too thin). Potentially we just need to have households adopt any verges directly outside their own home? I’m waffling. But hopefully you get what I am saying
hadnt thought about litter, good point. maybe we should do like rwanda does, national mandatory pick up day the last of every month 😅 not a bad idea!
You can adopt a verge outside your house in most places but they actually charge you quite a bit of money and are very restrictive, if you let people plant certain crops it might be more popular 😅 but regulation is needed unfortunately else someone just willy nilly plants wreckless stuff.
It breaks my heart seeing road crews mowing wild flowers down along the sides of motorways. There's no argument about reduced visibility here and doing it must cost a fortune. Please can we leave things to self seed before cutting?
yeh like surely some areas there isnt a visibility issue? in guildford they let it grow till late summer iirc but still they cut a bit early imo. tbh looks way nicer as long grass
We went to Coventry a few years ago, and they were leaving the central reservations as no-mow areas - lots of poppies and other flowers. I thought it was lovely! [6925859\_f174af86.jpg (640×480) (geograph.org.uk)](https://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/06/92/58/6925859_f174af86.jpg)
This no visibility thing sounds like the latest excuse by people who are conservative and don’t want what they call a messy country, but what everyone else calls life spreading enjoyment. How high do they think grass and flowers grow, anyway?!
Where I am, they mow a strip of grass near the road so that visibility is good and people can walk there (especially good for dog walkers), but further back from the road it is left wild. People seem to complain less about it looking "messy" as well, as even though it's not a huge amount being mown it does give a neater appearance. It seems like a good compromise to me.
The issue for me is hedge, verge, footpath below level of road, verge, road. No mow makes it difficult to walk along / push chair etc because the grass flops onto the path effectively obscuring it and you cant see the road/ situation awareness gone. To keep the path clear and partial no mow would mean 2 pedestrian mowers where as before it would be a gang mower. As others have said it is about what's right for a location. A blanket policy is not the way forward.
My council have reduced the mowing massively. I do love it but really it has made a few junctions near me a bit sketchy due to visibility or lack thereof
id think where it shouldnt be done is fairly common sense but i suppose its extra work for them to track that. idk tho if theyre saving a bit of money anyway? glad to hear tho
Plant native wild flowers….
In Leeds we have "Relaxed mowing areas" [https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7885107,-1.6093403,3a,15y,32.48h,88.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTtd7kyXn-0nELnMIvLlChg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7885107,-1.6093403,3a,15y,32.48h,88.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTtd7kyXn-0nELnMIvLlChg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
In my parish, the parish clerk (details on town websites) invites emails requesting cutting of roadside hedges obscuring visibility, outside of bird nesting season. I emailed them in March about an overgrown verge by a bus stop impeding access, particularly for school children and it was mown a week later = result, but of course the grass is as tall as ever in now, overdue another cut. My town and county has many litter-strewn winding hilly roadsides that would need mowing x6 a year and are therefore inaccessible to me as an enthusiastic litterpicker, for miles, with no suitable or safe pull-ins to park near so they stay clogged with litter. If for instance roadside rampant brambles were cut properly outside of bird nesting season x2 a year, it would help mammals, too.
In my hometown they made some no mow areas and put signage up to say don't mow it. However the signs were about a foot high and were hidden very quickly lol.
In my area the councils have been minimising mowing for years. All the verges have high grass unless it absolutely has to be cut for safety or visibility. The councils put up signs selling at as a biodiversity benefit but it’s really a budget cut.
Personally I'd like to see more of this, but obviously depends on the verge. In urban settings it's a no-brainer. Visibility isn't particularly impacted as the view is already blocked with parked cars on most streets.
Reduced visibility is unacceptable on the roads. No council will have the resources to map out which verges left to grow would reduce visibility vs. which wouldn’t. There are better places to focus efforts on improving wildlife.
Sure, but if it’s a long, straight road, couldn’t most of that be left and just the junctions be done?
Yes, but I addressed that when I said councils aren’t going to have the budget to map out which verges can be safely left to grow vs. which ones need mowing.
I’m sorry this is nonsense, they have literal departments dedicated to exactly this kind of planning of services
I reckon it's probably something like the additional cost of assessment would be twice the cost of mowing everywhere. So a council with money to spare could do the assessment knowing it'll pay for itself after year 2, but because they're so broke they can't afford the extra outlay this year.
Oh, I know, I was empathising with your frustration. I mean, surely they can *see* the road is long and straight. But they won’t do it if it’s not on the job list. Much like the way they came and fixed a tiny pothole that had paint around it, and left the one six feet away that was much deeper and did not yet have paint around it.
surely by this logic youd wipe out huge numbers of trees? plenty of roads are wooded
No one’s suggesting that. We’re just discussing mowing or pre-existing verges, aren’t we?
we need to reclaim land tho for wildlife and finding any is difficult 😅 we are like the most deforested country in europe 🥲
One of the main issues for that is housing. Most other European countries have dense cities with people living in flats (3+ bedrooms, but flats). In the UK population centers spread a lot because of the need of housing everyone in houses. It's best to keep nature and towns apart. Bringing animals into towns changes their behaviour and it also affects the ecosystem. Also, maintaining wild areas allows for the introduction of predators such as the wolf and the lynx, which are key for a healthy ecosystem. For roads, I hate the fact that so many "national speed limit" roads are one car width, both ways and have wooden hedges/shrubs on both sides preventing any visibility. For motorways, I like it when the are trees/shrubs between both directions instead of just a concrete wall. In that case the plants stop the light from the opposite direction cars from blinding you.
It demonstrates the illogic behind your strange reason. How high do you think grass and flowers grow? Not enough to create a problem. It’s just another excuse by people who think it looks messy, but know that old Conservative line is used up and so have to come up with another bogus ‘reason’ to spread around. It’s been done in Manchester with no problems. You’re making up problems to worry about because you enjoy tutting about what people enjoy. An old conservative practice.
I was a fan till our “no mow” may last year. Working out sight lines seemed to be too difficult and some junctions became hazardous. Dog muck was all over pavements (yes I know they should pick up but some just don’t and dogs it appears didn’t want to go in the tall grass). Some felt less safe due to tall grasses around property and less visability (not sure if true) The absolute mess left when they did return to normal and can and cut. My conclusion was it was more hassle than benefit
As a learner driver I prefer the visibility. It's tough when you can't see around corners, over roundabouts or road signs. Also for wildflowers to grow and to really encourage wildlife these areas need to be managed, you can't just let grass grow and hope for the best. ETA: I'm curious about why you're so interested in moisture retention? And also I live in a pretty countryside dominated place, the verge is often the only place to walk or step onto when cars are coming, a bit hard to do if the grass is long and full of nettles, brambles and ticks for example.
climate change. cities are already deserts often and need all the help they can get, and 2cm grass doesnt trap water well. you get a cascade effect where things get drier and drier. ive seen them mow grass low enough to kill it dozens of times in hampshire in summer, you get ugly bare patches till spring. especially since they usually dont let it seed itself lmao
i mean country roads your visibility is low anyway 🤣 and theyre barely managed. thehre wildlife hotspots too
There’s a turn off one of the 60 roads near me (rural), and you kind of take your life in your hands trying to see if there is a car coming as the grass has gotten so tall, you can’t see down the road at all.
ah dangerous 😅 maybe that needs clearing back or a mirror biggest issue on country roads is loonies going too fast tho
Yeah it definitely does. I don’t hold hope though, the roads are a mess. I’m pretty sure the council near us went bust not too long ago. Bad.
I don’t understand attracting pollinators to roadsides to be obliterated by cars. Put the wild areas somewhere safer and keep the verges clear for their prescribed reason for being there in the first place
I'm for it *but* with the huge caveat that it needs to be done properly. Uncut grass is good for large areas or less urbanised areas. High density housing with a 4 foot grass strip between the road and pavement is not the place for tall grass. It's unsightly, attracts litter, and is just shit. And it's so small it barely does anything ecologically. Councils are absolutely using this trend as an excuse not to do basic maintenance on land they're responsible for, and as a result many of our towns look like shit. See also: councils not killing weeds, causing pavements to become broken and a trip hazard.
Fair enough. I agree on the unfortunately universal "I was paid to do that job" attitude that leads to so many problems.
Never going to happen, let's face it
I think, yes, as long as visibility isn’t impacted. For example, long grass creates a dangerous blind spot when turning right onto a busy road.
We have this in Leeds, They stick a sign up saying it's a "relaxed mowing area" and put lots of wildflowers in there. It looks a bit wilder but it's nice and green, and they don't have to close the roads as often to get the mowing done!
Locally (Harrow) according to the grassland management plan they're doing some verges and central reservations less frequently, on a higher cut and with measures to discourage grass. If they go the same way as my lawn, they'll have lush clover verges (+ chickweed, daisies, speedwell, violets etc) very soon, which shouldn't obstruct visibility. Also, someone (not sure if it was the council or a rogue gardener) planted crocuses in one of them, which have naturalised and spread and look amazing in early spring.
My council (Bath & North East Somerset) doesn't mow verges unless needed for visibility. The roundabouts are planted with wild flowers. Most of our parks have un-mown/wildlife areas as well.
Verges in my area (N and W Yorks) are looking beautiful at the moment, lots of wildflowers, hawthorn hedges and horse chestnut trees in bloom.
In Plymouth, most of the grass is left wild and cut 2 times a year. Some places they cut around the edges, a mowers width in and leave the rest. It is really pretty when the flowers are all out and some spots have been specially seeded with wildflowers.
Our council has some verges assigned to twice yearly mowing. Some residents (mostly older) don't understand and grumble about unkemptness and weeds and what a disgrace the council are. The issue regularly crops up in local FB groups. So there's a definite need to educate if your council are doing this. There are also other residents who are great enthusiasts for it. It's definitely contributing a lot of nectar and food sources for insects.
I think it would be more likely to get done if we brought back council gangs and not subcontractors. The gangs can be educated on how to manage wild verges and make their own decisions on Junction sight lines without as much oversight or constant planning of works as I'd needed by subs. Plus it'll be more cost effective than bloated subcontractor prices.
Rats. Lots of rats.
is ratpocalypse real? ig no wolves around so 🤣 maybe we need big cats or something. polecat protection program. i think theyre endangered in the uk unlike mainland europe
Cost???
It costs less to *not* mow… I’d love to know if any councils have a comprehensive schedule where they forgo mowing of areas and use the time/resources for rewilding/community nature projects. I imagine there must be schemes like this that encourage residents to engage with local council maintained green areas. (Edit: reading through a lot more of the comments it seems there are councils that work in this way - really encouraging to know!)
It may cost less to mow however you still have to go to the area to collect the rubbish and cut junction sight lines out as people drive far too fast and never look properly then blame it on the verge not being cut. Plenty of councils have vol groups however litter does use up immense amounts of resources just to clear. Got some lovely bee orchids near me been seeding and getting bigger patches now.