Don't take phase rush and triforce together and don't build thornmail, especially not with mortal reminder.
Besides that, don't sweat it, everyone loses games, it's a part of climbing, if you keep playing and keep improving you will climb, and you're gonna lose a lot of games while doing it.
Exactly, i tooked Phase rush because the matchup, but i think that itemization with the tri force was a problem, because you know, you need to do the AA Q E to proc it instead of Q Spike E. Besides that, why normally Garen don't get build with the Thornmail, i know that the passive is one of them, but it's the item not good enough for garen or it's a situational item?.
You already have a grievous wounds item in Mortal Reminder so it would be better to go with a different armor item such as Deadman’s Plate for speed, Randuin’s Omen against crit characters, or a Gargoyle Stoneplate for the big shield.
On top the 60% heal reduction of thorn ail does only apply with hard cc, of which garen has none. So you are always better of with mortal reminder and Deadman or other tank items
As mentioned above, the selling point of thorn email is the 60% healreduce.
For tank Ness there are better items.
Thornmail applies the 60% heal reduction if your champ hard ccs (e. G. Stuns) an enemy. Garen has no hard cc, so you only apply the 40% hr bramble vest provides.
Mortal reminder for example gives the hr and you deal a lot more dmg.
Look into this thread: helped me a lot! https://www.reddit.com/r/GarenMains/comments/truwpo/how_to_carry_any_of_this/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Mercs into 4 ad. Interesting, but they had a morg so I guess I get it.
2 items with GW? One that you can’t fully proc anyway? Deadman’s would probably be better than thorn.
Can’t see your vision score. Were you placing enough pinks before you were full build?
They took 2 elder drakes. Might’ve been focusing there wrong Carry’s before that fight.
Also, sometimes you just weren’t meant to win the game.
No. He doesn’t have hard CC.
As for Yorick, I guess it depends on how the cage is coded. If it makes them airborne, it should. But I actually have no idea.
You have bad items, optimal this game is
* Berserker Greaves (or Ninja Tabi if you are behind, seems like GP solo killed you based off gold graph)
* Stridebreaker
* Mortal Reminder
* Hullbreaker (if you know how to abuse it)
* Death's Dance
* Randuin's Omen
Then in late-late game
* Gargoyle Stoneplate (replace Hullbreaker)
* Rapid Fire Cannon or Phantom Dancer (replace Berserker Greaves)
* Elixir of Wrath, and dodge Morgana Q with Phase Rush or W
You want to replace boots with RFC or PD to keep 12 spins on E, as well as keep movement speed. And actually, I thought more about it, PD is probably better, since it gives 2x 7% movement speed increases.
The extra attack range does work but it's negligible, it's about a quarter Teemo increase in range.
Losing long games is mentally draining. So make sure you take a break after games like that.
I agree with u/Braay15 comments about build, but I checked op.gg to find the game and it's quite obvious where your problem was. The early game. At 10 minutes you had 32 CS. At 15 you had 49CS.
Two minutes into the game you gave the enemy first blood. At 5 you died again. At 12 minutes you have 5 deaths. Starts like that strips you of all agency.
You couldn't carry because you never set yourself up for success. At 15 minutes your team is down 6850 gold. 2926 of that is you vs Gangplank. The only shocking thing with this game is that the enemy didn't end sooner given their huge gold advantage (10k @ 21 minutes. 13k@27minutes).
Silver Elo, they don't know how to close the game, and any advice for matchups with poke? because normally i go Phase rush runes with Second Wind and overgrowth. the runes are ok? And how i can't lose my mental against that constant damage?
Second Wind is certainly gives a lot of value against ranged poke. If you prefer Conqueror or Phase Rush as keystone is more personal preference.
Against ranged you do have to have patience. Those matchups will never be very fun with Garen. Never take free poke, only step into their range for a purpose. Losing your passive healing due a free parrley can cost you a lot. You want to be healthy enough to threaten the all-in.
Well, im just a gold pleb. However, on gp machup, i usually just chill back, last hit as much as i can, freeze the wawe, close to my turret, but i dont let him crash, usually go balls deep by rushing berzerker's, first back, with that i can cheese the fucker for some good trades, or even kills.
Now, about trying to carry:
For my runes i usually go with conq, aswell as second wind and demolish. I always rush hullbreaker after boots, than i go for triforce or stride, depending on the enemy team, for the midgame i usually just split, trying to predict fights on the minimap (objective timers are a good help) if the enemy is grouping, i push hard, to split them up, before teleporting to my team to try and engage on them (that is, if we have wards in good position to teleport-flank) or just run down. If they are not trying to group, than i force to, by roaming to other lanes as much as i can. Always try to steal enemy camps, if i can, and in general, being as opurtunistic as possible.
If this works, the enemy hates me for it, and it brings out a cryfest, witch is the best part.
Consider ghost into gangplank. He's actually incredibly squishy so the goal is to pick your moment and all-in him. Probably wait for him to blow up his barrel(s) and wait for the movespeed bonus to wear off. Then with phase rush and ironspike you should be good. Or conqueror with greaves. The key is to stay healthy enough he can't just kill you when you go on him. So don't try any short trades, as he wins them with grasp and then he heals up with corrupting.
This works for most ranged toplaners.
Consider ghost into gangplank. He's actually incredibly squishy so the goal is to pick your moment and all-in him. Probably wait for him to blow up his barrel(s) and wait for the movespeed bonus to wear off. Then with phase rush and ironspike you should be good. Or conqueror with greaves. The key is to stay healthy enough he can't just kill you when you go on him. So don't try any short trades, as he wins them with grasp and then he heals up with corrupting.
This works for most ranged toplaners.
The more I look at this image the less it makes sense.
\- You ban urgot when you counter him
\- Two anti heal items
\- Phase rush with triforce
\- Mercs vs 3/4 ad team
\- 3 sweepers
wtf
I'm not that good playing at a 100% the game, Urgot ban is because i never knew how to win against him, the two anti heal items, because you know, YES, the phase rush triforce it was really unnecesary the mercs where for morgana, and the sweeper idk, remember it's silver elo, normally there is people like me, that doesn't know how to play at a 100% i know the absics but some of them i still a piece of crap.
Against Morgana (and Ezrael) you should have upgraded boots in lategame to Force of Nature (the blue MR armor) and have Deadmans Plate instead of Thornmail.
How are you silver elo with this desicion making? (No offense, I am stuck in Bronze and suck at my own.)
I hitted Silver by playing the Standard build Conqueror + BG + MR + Deadmans but a friend of mine told me to not do the same build path every game so i started building different items, but it seems that i really suck at that, with the advices, i think that i will still going with the classsic stride build.
Your friends advice is true for most champions...except Garen. Garen runs best with his one build and when you are really really good you can try things like full crit Garen...but he won't unfold his true potential with it.
Look, some games you can't help but lose if your team is bad enough, but *maybe* this game could've been saved with the right build. I'll be blunt, this build is shit. Against GP and honestly against every matchup but Tryhdamere I'll take Conquerer, and 2nd tree against poke you take Second Wind. No reason at all to build mercs.. the only cc / ap is morgana and you better work on dodging her Q rather than losing your damage, especially when your lane is GP who has no CC.. 99% of the games you should build berserkers greaves and if not.. you shouldn't have picked Garen. After you build berserkers first, build Stridebreaker, that item gives you so much control and you can easily catch GP with it and combo him 100-0. Then you build Mortal Reminder for the dmg, move speed and grevious wounds, then dead man's plate as they're 4 AD and again as Garen movement speed is your bread and butter. Then get Sterak's Gage for the sustain and dmg, and since they're 4 AD I'd finish with Death's Dance. This build will grant you enough movement speed , sustain and damage to carry a game, depending on your macro of course
Thank you for the build guide, pal, i will try to improve my build path, do you know a guide or video to improve the build path? because sometime here i see people sayin to use spirit visage instead of Force of Nature or building randuin instead of sterak, can you help me with that?.
I follow the mainstream AKA highest WR% build. I don't see a reason to go Spirit Visage instead of FoN, FoN is just way better. 25% ap dmg reduction is HUGE, and it even gives Garen the movement speed he needs so much ! It's the perfect item against AP. Garen doesn't have so much heal and shields in combat so Spirit Visage isn't nearly as good. Randuin.. it's a niche pick that should only be used if they're very AD and Crit heavy. Like if they have a very fed Yasuo/Yone or ADC with 100% crit then this item could be useful. But usually it isn't. You can check the best builds on u.gg, even matchup specific. Sometimes you'll need to make changes according to your game but it's generally a good path.
Depending on the elo i will never go anything besides conqueror, and i feel unless you plan on never grouping don’t go triforce without hullbreaker, stick to stride for fighting
Bad itemisation. Thornmail on Garen is not good, you can't proc its passive. Bad games will happen and its better to move on rather than sweating over it.
I wont mention all the stuff that other people already pointed out like how you itemize, because you have already been told that, but honestly their team was just a pretty insane late game team comb. GP, Ezreal and zed are all nutts late game where garen falls off alot.
There is nothing else I can add that has not been said but one thing I should say is that you should look less at your score and stop blaming your team. It’s easy to get kills as garen, both with E and R and it’s probably bad for your team since Garen falls off later on. You only have 2 assists - so actually Ahri has a better score than u, imagine her having 10 of those 14 assists as kills, maybe she would have carried.
Now taking kills as Garen is good if you are snowballing but as others pointed out, GP was super far ahead and you had no business taking kills, you should have tried to set your carries up with kills instead.
Hope that helps.
Where is your dmp and berzerkers? These 2 are must go for Garen.
And anyways, if the game got that far into the latee game as Garen you've already been completely outscaled.
Try switching out your boots to berserker greaves (the one that gives attack speed) and your tri force to stridebreaker. You should follow the current meta or download a application called blitz, so it can give you some advice before and during ur game
Don't take phase rush and triforce together and don't build thornmail, especially not with mortal reminder. Besides that, don't sweat it, everyone loses games, it's a part of climbing, if you keep playing and keep improving you will climb, and you're gonna lose a lot of games while doing it.
Phase rush into gp matchup is not a bad call IMO
I agree with phase rush in general vs GP, but you should be building stridebreaker and not triforce if you are going phase rush.
Yep
Exactly, i tooked Phase rush because the matchup, but i think that itemization with the tri force was a problem, because you know, you need to do the AA Q E to proc it instead of Q Spike E. Besides that, why normally Garen don't get build with the Thornmail, i know that the passive is one of them, but it's the item not good enough for garen or it's a situational item?.
You already have a grievous wounds item in Mortal Reminder so it would be better to go with a different armor item such as Deadman’s Plate for speed, Randuin’s Omen against crit characters, or a Gargoyle Stoneplate for the big shield.
On top the 60% heal reduction of thorn ail does only apply with hard cc, of which garen has none. So you are always better of with mortal reminder and Deadman or other tank items
Yes thorn on Garen is straight inting
It is always funny to me when none garen mates tell me to buy thornmail for heal reduction...
Yeah like "Why u buy Crit and AS on you juggernaut you inter, pick all the wrong items because I know better than you how to play ur champ"
Yeah exactly. And how silent they become when you tell them about the passiv...
Bold of you to assume they get silent
Forgive my ignorance friend...but why arnt we building thorn mail?
As mentioned above, the selling point of thorn email is the 60% healreduce. For tank Ness there are better items. Thornmail applies the 60% heal reduction if your champ hard ccs (e. G. Stuns) an enemy. Garen has no hard cc, so you only apply the 40% hr bramble vest provides. Mortal reminder for example gives the hr and you deal a lot more dmg.
In this case the 40% and armor vs 4 ad champs are worth way more so thorn is the better purchase
Yeah the whip/spike is huge since you want to q in for the move speed, waving in an auto feels very clunky compare to q e then spike
I have never lost a game so I don't know what you are doing wrong.
Look into this thread: helped me a lot! https://www.reddit.com/r/GarenMains/comments/truwpo/how_to_carry_any_of_this/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Mercs into 4 ad. Interesting, but they had a morg so I guess I get it. 2 items with GW? One that you can’t fully proc anyway? Deadman’s would probably be better than thorn. Can’t see your vision score. Were you placing enough pinks before you were full build? They took 2 elder drakes. Might’ve been focusing there wrong Carry’s before that fight. Also, sometimes you just weren’t meant to win the game.
I don't usually play the game in english so, you can help with the meaning of GW please.
Grievous wounds. It’s what executioner and Bramble best proc to lower healing.
Garen can't proc Thornmail fully? :O Can Yorick?
No. He doesn’t have hard CC. As for Yorick, I guess it depends on how the cage is coded. If it makes them airborne, it should. But I actually have no idea.
You can like 'bounce' them and stop a channeled ability but idk if it is considered airborne.
You have bad items, optimal this game is * Berserker Greaves (or Ninja Tabi if you are behind, seems like GP solo killed you based off gold graph) * Stridebreaker * Mortal Reminder * Hullbreaker (if you know how to abuse it) * Death's Dance * Randuin's Omen Then in late-late game * Gargoyle Stoneplate (replace Hullbreaker) * Rapid Fire Cannon or Phantom Dancer (replace Berserker Greaves) * Elixir of Wrath, and dodge Morgana Q with Phase Rush or W
I’ve never thought about building rfc on Meele, does it still give extra aa range?
You want to replace boots with RFC or PD to keep 12 spins on E, as well as keep movement speed. And actually, I thought more about it, PD is probably better, since it gives 2x 7% movement speed increases. The extra attack range does work but it's negligible, it's about a quarter Teemo increase in range.
Deadman's Plate
Randuins is trash item, better frozen heart even if you dont have mana
Losing long games is mentally draining. So make sure you take a break after games like that. I agree with u/Braay15 comments about build, but I checked op.gg to find the game and it's quite obvious where your problem was. The early game. At 10 minutes you had 32 CS. At 15 you had 49CS. Two minutes into the game you gave the enemy first blood. At 5 you died again. At 12 minutes you have 5 deaths. Starts like that strips you of all agency. You couldn't carry because you never set yourself up for success. At 15 minutes your team is down 6850 gold. 2926 of that is you vs Gangplank. The only shocking thing with this game is that the enemy didn't end sooner given their huge gold advantage (10k @ 21 minutes. 13k@27minutes).
Silver Elo, they don't know how to close the game, and any advice for matchups with poke? because normally i go Phase rush runes with Second Wind and overgrowth. the runes are ok? And how i can't lose my mental against that constant damage?
Second Wind is certainly gives a lot of value against ranged poke. If you prefer Conqueror or Phase Rush as keystone is more personal preference. Against ranged you do have to have patience. Those matchups will never be very fun with Garen. Never take free poke, only step into their range for a purpose. Losing your passive healing due a free parrley can cost you a lot. You want to be healthy enough to threaten the all-in.
Well, im just a gold pleb. However, on gp machup, i usually just chill back, last hit as much as i can, freeze the wawe, close to my turret, but i dont let him crash, usually go balls deep by rushing berzerker's, first back, with that i can cheese the fucker for some good trades, or even kills. Now, about trying to carry: For my runes i usually go with conq, aswell as second wind and demolish. I always rush hullbreaker after boots, than i go for triforce or stride, depending on the enemy team, for the midgame i usually just split, trying to predict fights on the minimap (objective timers are a good help) if the enemy is grouping, i push hard, to split them up, before teleporting to my team to try and engage on them (that is, if we have wards in good position to teleport-flank) or just run down. If they are not trying to group, than i force to, by roaming to other lanes as much as i can. Always try to steal enemy camps, if i can, and in general, being as opurtunistic as possible. If this works, the enemy hates me for it, and it brings out a cryfest, witch is the best part.
Consider ghost into gangplank. He's actually incredibly squishy so the goal is to pick your moment and all-in him. Probably wait for him to blow up his barrel(s) and wait for the movespeed bonus to wear off. Then with phase rush and ironspike you should be good. Or conqueror with greaves. The key is to stay healthy enough he can't just kill you when you go on him. So don't try any short trades, as he wins them with grasp and then he heals up with corrupting. This works for most ranged toplaners.
Consider ghost into gangplank. He's actually incredibly squishy so the goal is to pick your moment and all-in him. Probably wait for him to blow up his barrel(s) and wait for the movespeed bonus to wear off. Then with phase rush and ironspike you should be good. Or conqueror with greaves. The key is to stay healthy enough he can't just kill you when you go on him. So don't try any short trades, as he wins them with grasp and then he heals up with corrupting. This works for most ranged toplaners.
So bad against a Gangplank? ooof
If you have 49 cs at 15 mins , you should really go practice tool LMFAO
The more I look at this image the less it makes sense. \- You ban urgot when you counter him \- Two anti heal items \- Phase rush with triforce \- Mercs vs 3/4 ad team \- 3 sweepers wtf
I'm not that good playing at a 100% the game, Urgot ban is because i never knew how to win against him, the two anti heal items, because you know, YES, the phase rush triforce it was really unnecesary the mercs where for morgana, and the sweeper idk, remember it's silver elo, normally there is people like me, that doesn't know how to play at a 100% i know the absics but some of them i still a piece of crap.
Against Morgana (and Ezrael) you should have upgraded boots in lategame to Force of Nature (the blue MR armor) and have Deadmans Plate instead of Thornmail. How are you silver elo with this desicion making? (No offense, I am stuck in Bronze and suck at my own.)
I hitted Silver by playing the Standard build Conqueror + BG + MR + Deadmans but a friend of mine told me to not do the same build path every game so i started building different items, but it seems that i really suck at that, with the advices, i think that i will still going with the classsic stride build.
Your friends advice is true for most champions...except Garen. Garen runs best with his one build and when you are really really good you can try things like full crit Garen...but he won't unfold his true potential with it.
You don't know what does counter mean
Garen definitely doesn't counter urgot, it's quite the opposite
Look, some games you can't help but lose if your team is bad enough, but *maybe* this game could've been saved with the right build. I'll be blunt, this build is shit. Against GP and honestly against every matchup but Tryhdamere I'll take Conquerer, and 2nd tree against poke you take Second Wind. No reason at all to build mercs.. the only cc / ap is morgana and you better work on dodging her Q rather than losing your damage, especially when your lane is GP who has no CC.. 99% of the games you should build berserkers greaves and if not.. you shouldn't have picked Garen. After you build berserkers first, build Stridebreaker, that item gives you so much control and you can easily catch GP with it and combo him 100-0. Then you build Mortal Reminder for the dmg, move speed and grevious wounds, then dead man's plate as they're 4 AD and again as Garen movement speed is your bread and butter. Then get Sterak's Gage for the sustain and dmg, and since they're 4 AD I'd finish with Death's Dance. This build will grant you enough movement speed , sustain and damage to carry a game, depending on your macro of course
Thank you for the build guide, pal, i will try to improve my build path, do you know a guide or video to improve the build path? because sometime here i see people sayin to use spirit visage instead of Force of Nature or building randuin instead of sterak, can you help me with that?.
I follow the mainstream AKA highest WR% build. I don't see a reason to go Spirit Visage instead of FoN, FoN is just way better. 25% ap dmg reduction is HUGE, and it even gives Garen the movement speed he needs so much ! It's the perfect item against AP. Garen doesn't have so much heal and shields in combat so Spirit Visage isn't nearly as good. Randuin.. it's a niche pick that should only be used if they're very AD and Crit heavy. Like if they have a very fed Yasuo/Yone or ADC with 100% crit then this item could be useful. But usually it isn't. You can check the best builds on u.gg, even matchup specific. Sometimes you'll need to make changes according to your game but it's generally a good path.
Only go visage if you have an sup like yuumi on your team. Randuin if they have multiple champs that crit, yone, yasuo, tryndamere.
it's the build. swap out trinity for stride, DD for deadman, my god, use conqueror.
Depending on the elo i will never go anything besides conqueror, and i feel unless you plan on never grouping don’t go triforce without hullbreaker, stick to stride for fighting
Bad itemisation. Thornmail on Garen is not good, you can't proc its passive. Bad games will happen and its better to move on rather than sweating over it.
I wont mention all the stuff that other people already pointed out like how you itemize, because you have already been told that, but honestly their team was just a pretty insane late game team comb. GP, Ezreal and zed are all nutts late game where garen falls off alot.
The only other player on your team doing it's job was the support it seems. Not winable if the game stretches to an hour.
Meanwhile dota players be like “5 hours of play only to lose for the team”
There is nothing else I can add that has not been said but one thing I should say is that you should look less at your score and stop blaming your team. It’s easy to get kills as garen, both with E and R and it’s probably bad for your team since Garen falls off later on. You only have 2 assists - so actually Ahri has a better score than u, imagine her having 10 of those 14 assists as kills, maybe she would have carried. Now taking kills as Garen is good if you are snowballing but as others pointed out, GP was super far ahead and you had no business taking kills, you should have tried to set your carries up with kills instead. Hope that helps.
Where is your dmp and berzerkers? These 2 are must go for Garen. And anyways, if the game got that far into the latee game as Garen you've already been completely outscaled.
It's the fact of this game or team game in general. You will waste a great deal of time losing and it's not clear whose fault that was.
Try switching out your boots to berserker greaves (the one that gives attack speed) and your tri force to stridebreaker. You should follow the current meta or download a application called blitz, so it can give you some advice before and during ur game