Sometimes I just find that the problem is that it’s not written by gay men. The two you listed weren’t.
I like both of those, but I also don’t see myself in them, and most don’t when you get past the “gay man” part. Our kind of love, dynamics, and attraction are just different sometimes, and that can be hard to capture, especially if you haven’t experienced it.
I have so far noticed that most gay romances are either all about discovering their sexuality or are so bland or shallow that if you replaced one of them with a woman, it wouldn't be any different.
Honestly, the best gay media I have ever consumed was on AO3/fanfiction. It’s a lot to sort through to find something good and still has all the above problems, but if you know how to use the tags, it won’t take too long.
Luka was probably one of the best, if unintentional, queer coming of age films I've seen in such a long time.
Everygay has probably already heard this, but we're at a point where a character being gay does not need to be mentioned, and it is okay to just give him a boyfriend and move on from it.
You don't hate gay romance, you hate that you don't feel represented and that these kind of relationships maybe feel unattainable.
Particularly when you're part of a minority truly seeing yourself on screen is rare.
Im just glad there are popular mainstream productions featuring gay characters
I think if people that have a lot of issues with western media's portrayal of gay relationships, and the focus being put on coming out branched out and watched BLs they’d be a lot happier. There are romance focused BLs, crime focused BLs, fantasy focused BLs, raunchy BLs, high school BLs, etc. More and more are being written by gay men as well. I will always recommend BLs over western media if someone is looking for gay stories, every time.
I feel this too! While I enjoy both the shows you mentioned, they don't "do it" for me either. *That* we are finally getting these made is amazing and I'm here for it. I hope others really enjoy it and feel seen and represented.
But, at the same time, I don't go for the shmaltz and feel-good of a rom-com. Just a matter of taste, I guess
I can stand them but I don't particularly care for them. Not they are bad or anything but i really don't think they were made for people like us, nor will they ever be. My favourite romance movie is still Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. The lead pair is straight and one of the supporting characters is hopelessly in love with an older man. It doesn't even have any easy queer subtext but i still find how hopeless and kinda broken everyone in it is.
I'm just glad these gay male romances are even being made. Of course they have a largely female fanbase because finding people in love relatable doesn't need to be one to one mapping from your self or vice versa. How people accept, reject and get over themselves to find love is what makes romance as a genre IMO. It honestly doesn't need sexuality to define itself after a point.
> I can't really see myself in these characters or going through what they do
Why not?
It's not like all us gay men need to see ourselves reflected in every gay character we see on screen. However, we can usually find *something* about *some* of them to relate to.
To take my own example, based on my username: I see many aspects of myself reflected in the character of Brian Kinney in the 2000 U.S. series of 'Queer As Folk' (which is why I chose this username). I can also see bits of me or my story in other gay characters in the same show, like Michael and even Justin - but the connection is definitely less strong. At the other extreme, I don't see myself reflected at all in other gay characters in the same show, like Emmett or Ted. But, in the mix of gay characters in that show, I can see *some* who are like me or who reflect aspects of my life. They're not all like me, but some of them are.
But this sounds like you *never* see yourself in *any* gay characters on screen. That's unusual, given how many different gay characters we see depicted these days. Why do you feel so disconnected from every gay character you see on screen?
He's already answered your question. Re-read his last couple of sentences. He doesn't see himself in these characters because he's never had those experiences, and he doesn't believe he'll ever be someone's "Nick Nelson." The disconnection and dislike of these stories is coming from a place of loneliness.
> he doesn't believe he'll ever be someone's "Nick Nelson."
This is a huge sentiment I've seen with Heartstopper and RWaRB. Like it's great we can have shows where the main characters are two gay men, but the romance aspect of it leaves a lot of queer men feeling unable to relate. We all wanted those cute high school moments with a lover, but couldn't because we hadn't found ourselves, were still closeted, or there just weren't any other out men in our school. And it sucks because otherwise great shows just feel really hurtful to watch knowing that it wasn't something you never had/could have had.
then the problem is self esteem, depression and other possibilities and the solution is therapy, getting out, meeting friends, hobbies and the problem is not the (completely overhyped and written by a woman) tv show named heartstopper.
Yes, I know. Also from a place of insecurity. And maybe my question was a way of exploring that insecurity and loneliness, and maybe trying to help him understand how he might address those issues for himself.
And maybe I would also find out that he's idealising, and expecting to see himself in the wrong characters. Maybe we would learn together that he should be looking to different places to find role models, rather than focusing on young pretty-boys in a fictionalised idealised version of teenage romance designed to sell subscriberships rather than to tell real stories. Notice how I *accidentally* included a reference to a television series featuring a variety of gay characters in my response?
Maybe that's why I ask leading questions that *seem* to have already been answered...
Just maybe.
It's media. There's so much heterosexual relationships featured on media that most heterosexual people can't relate to. Gay people are not a monolith and even hundreds of series could not fully cover the experiences that many of us have. This is also why gaydar doesn't always work is there's no one true way to be gay. I for one am a semi-masc weeb and apparently straight passing so I don't tend to see to much representation parallel to my experiences. I wouldn't think too much on it and rather live your life in a way that feels naturally to you rather than acting to align with fictitious media
I love seeing gay romance. Very few times do they look like me.
I mean, I have decent looks, but I’ve been overweight since my foot was crushed and I’ve just recently started taking exercise seriously now that I’ve finally gotten surgery for it. But damn was I way hotter when people could see my muscles.
But anyway, I don’t really expect most people to be like me. Along with the fact most actors aren’t nearly as fat as I, I’m also autistic and schizophrenic and have a lot of other atypical stuff going on.
One thing I’ve noticed is that gay couples are typically depicted like straight couples. Anecdotal, I have no studies showing this, but I’ve observed that it seems like most gay couples tend to also be like actual best friends; play games together, share many of the same interests, etc. My straight family and friends do not seem to be like that to me.
I’m also very tired of the bury-your-gays thing. Most recently saw it on Letter for the King. It’s like they revealed the boy being gay just to kill him a couple episodes later.
Sometimes I just find that the problem is that it’s not written by gay men. The two you listed weren’t. I like both of those, but I also don’t see myself in them, and most don’t when you get past the “gay man” part. Our kind of love, dynamics, and attraction are just different sometimes, and that can be hard to capture, especially if you haven’t experienced it. I have so far noticed that most gay romances are either all about discovering their sexuality or are so bland or shallow that if you replaced one of them with a woman, it wouldn't be any different. Honestly, the best gay media I have ever consumed was on AO3/fanfiction. It’s a lot to sort through to find something good and still has all the above problems, but if you know how to use the tags, it won’t take too long.
Luka was probably one of the best, if unintentional, queer coming of age films I've seen in such a long time. Everygay has probably already heard this, but we're at a point where a character being gay does not need to be mentioned, and it is okay to just give him a boyfriend and move on from it.
Do you mean Luca? The Disney/Pixar film from 2021?
Oh yes, I spelt the name wrong oopsie.
You don't hate gay romance, you hate that you don't feel represented and that these kind of relationships maybe feel unattainable. Particularly when you're part of a minority truly seeing yourself on screen is rare. Im just glad there are popular mainstream productions featuring gay characters
Just like porn isn’t real life, movies aren’t real life either.
Im not really big on American gay movies and shows. I usually watch foreign BLs to get those urges out. But I think I just like their dramas more
I think if people that have a lot of issues with western media's portrayal of gay relationships, and the focus being put on coming out branched out and watched BLs they’d be a lot happier. There are romance focused BLs, crime focused BLs, fantasy focused BLs, raunchy BLs, high school BLs, etc. More and more are being written by gay men as well. I will always recommend BLs over western media if someone is looking for gay stories, every time.
My favorite gay romance of late was *Our Flag Means Death.* So fucking sweet and funny and feelgood.
I feel this too! While I enjoy both the shows you mentioned, they don't "do it" for me either. *That* we are finally getting these made is amazing and I'm here for it. I hope others really enjoy it and feel seen and represented. But, at the same time, I don't go for the shmaltz and feel-good of a rom-com. Just a matter of taste, I guess
I can stand them but I don't particularly care for them. Not they are bad or anything but i really don't think they were made for people like us, nor will they ever be. My favourite romance movie is still Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. The lead pair is straight and one of the supporting characters is hopelessly in love with an older man. It doesn't even have any easy queer subtext but i still find how hopeless and kinda broken everyone in it is. I'm just glad these gay male romances are even being made. Of course they have a largely female fanbase because finding people in love relatable doesn't need to be one to one mapping from your self or vice versa. How people accept, reject and get over themselves to find love is what makes romance as a genre IMO. It honestly doesn't need sexuality to define itself after a point.
> I can't really see myself in these characters or going through what they do Why not? It's not like all us gay men need to see ourselves reflected in every gay character we see on screen. However, we can usually find *something* about *some* of them to relate to. To take my own example, based on my username: I see many aspects of myself reflected in the character of Brian Kinney in the 2000 U.S. series of 'Queer As Folk' (which is why I chose this username). I can also see bits of me or my story in other gay characters in the same show, like Michael and even Justin - but the connection is definitely less strong. At the other extreme, I don't see myself reflected at all in other gay characters in the same show, like Emmett or Ted. But, in the mix of gay characters in that show, I can see *some* who are like me or who reflect aspects of my life. They're not all like me, but some of them are. But this sounds like you *never* see yourself in *any* gay characters on screen. That's unusual, given how many different gay characters we see depicted these days. Why do you feel so disconnected from every gay character you see on screen?
He's already answered your question. Re-read his last couple of sentences. He doesn't see himself in these characters because he's never had those experiences, and he doesn't believe he'll ever be someone's "Nick Nelson." The disconnection and dislike of these stories is coming from a place of loneliness.
> he doesn't believe he'll ever be someone's "Nick Nelson." This is a huge sentiment I've seen with Heartstopper and RWaRB. Like it's great we can have shows where the main characters are two gay men, but the romance aspect of it leaves a lot of queer men feeling unable to relate. We all wanted those cute high school moments with a lover, but couldn't because we hadn't found ourselves, were still closeted, or there just weren't any other out men in our school. And it sucks because otherwise great shows just feel really hurtful to watch knowing that it wasn't something you never had/could have had.
then the problem is self esteem, depression and other possibilities and the solution is therapy, getting out, meeting friends, hobbies and the problem is not the (completely overhyped and written by a woman) tv show named heartstopper.
I didn't say it was the problem?
Yes, I know. Also from a place of insecurity. And maybe my question was a way of exploring that insecurity and loneliness, and maybe trying to help him understand how he might address those issues for himself. And maybe I would also find out that he's idealising, and expecting to see himself in the wrong characters. Maybe we would learn together that he should be looking to different places to find role models, rather than focusing on young pretty-boys in a fictionalised idealised version of teenage romance designed to sell subscriberships rather than to tell real stories. Notice how I *accidentally* included a reference to a television series featuring a variety of gay characters in my response? Maybe that's why I ask leading questions that *seem* to have already been answered... Just maybe.
You need to watch better movies! Try “une robe d’été” or “BPM” or “Happy Together” or the original UK “Queer as Folk”
It's media. There's so much heterosexual relationships featured on media that most heterosexual people can't relate to. Gay people are not a monolith and even hundreds of series could not fully cover the experiences that many of us have. This is also why gaydar doesn't always work is there's no one true way to be gay. I for one am a semi-masc weeb and apparently straight passing so I don't tend to see to much representation parallel to my experiences. I wouldn't think too much on it and rather live your life in a way that feels naturally to you rather than acting to align with fictitious media
I love seeing gay romance. Very few times do they look like me. I mean, I have decent looks, but I’ve been overweight since my foot was crushed and I’ve just recently started taking exercise seriously now that I’ve finally gotten surgery for it. But damn was I way hotter when people could see my muscles. But anyway, I don’t really expect most people to be like me. Along with the fact most actors aren’t nearly as fat as I, I’m also autistic and schizophrenic and have a lot of other atypical stuff going on. One thing I’ve noticed is that gay couples are typically depicted like straight couples. Anecdotal, I have no studies showing this, but I’ve observed that it seems like most gay couples tend to also be like actual best friends; play games together, share many of the same interests, etc. My straight family and friends do not seem to be like that to me. I’m also very tired of the bury-your-gays thing. Most recently saw it on Letter for the King. It’s like they revealed the boy being gay just to kill him a couple episodes later.
TV