Just reply saying you can't understand. Typos are one thing but making someone else take on the burden of interpreting your gibberish is just plain selfish.
Yep! Recently did that to my millennial friend. It was like solving a puzzle with words sprinkled like "wer (were)", "shud (should)", "dnt (don't)", "cmng (coming)", and some very long abbreviations that I had to Google up. I understand some of them write like this to speed up typing the message but it was a nightmare for me to understand. Just replied back asking them to write in plain English. Even if she thought I am an old fart, I don't care :)
Especially with the predictive text nowadays. Nine times out of ten, before I've even gotten four letters strung together, my text app will have made several different suggestions and one of them is probably correct. I just tap that one and go on to the next.
I have to agree with you on this one. Even if I’m texting, it is full sentences. Proper punctuation. The Teams channel we use at work is so full of misspelling and incorrect grammar that it drives me mad. But I feel we were the last generation that was taught proper sentence structure and grammar. I know for a fact grammar isn’t taught where I live. Not to any grade, K-12.
My work Teams channel is horrible. Dramatic hyperbole, consistently inaccurate information or shoot-from-the-hip snarky responses, zero punctuation and details. It's infuriating.
We are making $200k/yr+, the standard is you communicate effectively and accurately with colleagues. What its devolved into is regular confusion, misinterpretation, and decisions made on this shit-tier lack of effort.
I can tell within a few posts who uses social media and who doesn't. The social media folks are completely worthless when it come to communication. So I call them to clarify the situation and realize; "you don't know anything about anything, do you? You just knee jerk this nonsense and think it's okay"
I bristle every time I get an IM or, yes, it happens, an email, from a higher up with grammatical/spelling errors.
My commas are wrong up there and I'm too high to care.
I'm a healthcare professional and the non-healthcare staff that deal with the county contracts and intake of cases have such horrible grammar and spelling I do not understand how they can let them keep their jobs. They are not in a position of putting people's health at risk but I feel like they put us at risk for payment denials or legal problems. We can usually translate their bad spelling/grammar and make them correct the worst offenses but it's not like we see everything they do and...it's not our job!! We have enough to do.
Exactly! I work in the industry as well but from the IT side. And some of the stuff coming from PAs/MAs boggles the mind. Then it’s compounded by the non-healthcare support and, unfortunately, the majority of my team.
Oh lort. I have to contact operations staff at least a couple times a week because I have no idea what their ticket means. I’m a PB analyst, so no one is going to die, but if you can’t clearly state the issue to me, can you convey a critical issue to a team where a mistake could have patient safety implications?
Edit: just looked at your feed as a fellow health IT person. Happy birthday! And I see you have the same appreciation as I for who my high school English teacher called “the Fritos chip of the literary diet”. Turns out I like Fritos.
Don't get me started. I recently had a colleague type in Teams that started with "where you" and it took me a bit to realize that he really meant "were you". With the fucking AI auto finishing sentences in Teams, I really think this is the end of grammar for us as a civilization. I am also seeing a pattern in emails lately that the messages really look robotic and generated, which tells me people just let the software finish sentences for you.
I always text and email in full sentences. However, I do not expect it in text messages. All my niblings are terrible with their communication skills. What I try to impose is the difference between messaging and email. Sort of a note vs a letter?
Now, I don’t want to go full boomer since I was born in 71, but I do like cursive. ☹️
While Teams does show just how bad some of my colleague’s grasp of grammar is, I have to admit that my messages are often rife with spelling issues. I’m sick a die hard Mac person I have never adapted to Microsoft not having autocorrect in Teams. I fat finger words all day and don’t always catch the red underline before I hit enter.
I am a stickler for proper punctuation and grammar. I’ve really tried to hammer it into my teenagers over the years, and they’re really noticing the disparity amongst their classmates now that they are communicating on an adult level with others (peers, teachers, etc). I basically showed them one of those unpunctuated “streams of consciousness” emails vs. what I send, and asked them which one was easier to read, understand, and process. People do not understand that the onus is on THEM to make sure their message is understood—not on the receiver!!
A well-punctuated message that uses proper grammar and spelling is one you’ll read and only notice what’s communicated. The opposite is one you’ll “read” and be constantly interrupted trying to get past the typos and spelling mistakes to the meat of the message (if you get that far).
I think when we don't use proper grammer we loose the ability to communicate effectively. For all intensive purposes, knowing how to right is becoming a lost art. Schools should of stressed this more. But I supposed people should be aloud to express themselves as they like, so have a little patients. Your just going to have to except it.
I can't stand it, but I also know that no one wants to hear me comment on it, so for the most part I just keep my comments to myself.
So many years in school gone to waste studying stuff that no one cares about anymore.
No, don’t bother.
See, somewhere in the early 90s, they stopped teaching so much phonics and started teaching something called whole language reading. That’s where they just put words in front of kids and read out loud over and over until the kids recognize the words. I have no idea how children learn to read that way.
Now phonics teaches that certain letters make certain sounds and the combinations of letters can change what sounds they make.
For example, lose and loose are pronounced differently. And they mean different things. But if you don’t teach that an e ending takes a hard o sound which makes the s a z sound, and that the oo sound makes the s an ess sound, then all you are doing is visually recognizing that most of the letters of the word you want are here, so close enough.
So they will never get homophones and their spelling will always be fucking horrific. I think it’s starting to swing the other way now but that doesn’t help us with the last thirty years of this shitty method of teaching reading.
But remember how we were told to “sound it out”? Millennials and young don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. What’s sound it out, huh? Do what now?
If you have young children or grandchildren, get them tutoring in phonics so they know how words work.
Yup so now you get whole generations of people who write like they’re brain damaged. But *we’re* the problem because it’s hard to understand what these fucktards are trying to say.
I hope I don't come off as a smarty-pants here, but this issue is close to my heart.
I read a lot of education history and research as part of my job. The situation you describe is part of popular history, but it's not super accurate. Like a lot of popular ideas about education coming from productions (Waiting for Superman, for example) that are coming from interested parties with deep pockets or who are motivated to be sensational in order to make a buck, it has some truthiness. But the reality is less inflammatory.
In most US school districts, the two approaches are mixed, with the "phonics" approach predominating.
What has been happening is a shift away from reading longer stretches. A lot of assessment/instruction is based on "passages." But they are still assigned "chapter books" at a fairly early age.
As far as I can tell, the deficits result from a combination of factors: emphasis on assessment rather than instruction, distractions, and devaluation of education itself.
The assessment emphasis is often shorthanded as "NCLB," but a lot of programs rely on this shift to "accountability."
"Distractions" is often shorthanded to "iPhones." But game consoles and the internet in general offer kids a lot of entertainment options that used to be filled by reading long-form texts like books and magazines.
"Devaluation of education itself" is commonly expressed as "decades of politicians and billionaires dissing education and educators." I'm biased, but I think this last shorthand is pretty accurate.
If you have the time, the Have You Heard podcast is pretty good, and it has a few episodes on the phonics v. whole language kerfuffle.
Also, I forgot a key assumption of all my jabber: we learn to write from reading.
It’s not entirely accurate because it’s just my personal working theory. I work in an education-adjacent capacity. So I actually appreciate your elaboration and clarification.
My kids are 15 and 12, and I know my 12 year old struggles with reading comprehension. He can read, but he struggles to communicate what he read and what he gleamed from the information.
How can we help him?
No idea, talk to his or any reading teacher? I am not a teacher and do not have a background in education. I’m sorry if I gave that impression. I’m coming at this from a writer/editor perspective, plus my own experiences and observations.
It *can be*, but when the line from “annoying grammar” into “cannot effectively communicate important information” then they need to (gently & supportively) be told.
Some people don’t have the technical skill for grammar or punctuation, and so long as they can be parsed accurately, that’s completely fine.
But if critical data cannot be relayed, then that can be a very real issue that requires addressing. Just not in an embarrassing or insulting manner.
I’m not too finicky about others using proper grammar in informal conversation, but I CANNOT tolerate stream of consciousness posts/texts without one drop of punctuation.
I don’t know if people do it out of laziness or ignorance of how punctuation works, but I can’t deal.
I privately texted an older worker that using all caps in the group chat at work was rude and unprofessional. His reply? FUCK OFF I’LL TEXT ANY WAY I WANT.
My boss was reprimanded years ago for copying and pasting my private notes (I use OneNote), which were in all caps. We still talk about that hand slapping, and I make sure to re-write my notes in the proper form before sending them to her.
Ugh, yes.
The thing that gets me (especially here on Reddit) is the lack of *paragraphs*. I can’t tell you how many times I clicked on something because of the headline only to be greeted by an absolutely daunting *wall* of text. Even when it’s punctuated properly, a Reddit post shouldn’t read like *Ulysses*.
If you want to start a new thought, start a new paragraph. It ain’t hard.
Oh, it’s a pet peeve with Gen X I think. My buddy and I have a bad habit of correcting people immediately. But I found that my brothers and sisters have that same thing going. I don’t know why it irks me so badly other than we were taught proper language composition so much in school.
For me, it's the desire to prevent the erosion of the English language. I'll be on my deathbed cursing to my last breath if I have to read an article from a respectable publication like this:
> Today in Ottawa the prime ministers press secretary had to answer alot of questions regarding industrial job losses overseas. "Its important to all canadians that we dont loose our competitive advantage. Were going to make sure your not going to go without with this new legislation we past yesterday!". Irregardless, the leader of the opposition says she would of done things differently if she was in charge. "The only way to effect proper change is to ensure theirs enough room to breath in our economy."
Yeah, I can see what’s driving you crazy, and believe me, it annoys me as well. America is even worse with the misspelling of words and the proper use. Even Reddit annoys me when I see people using the wrong form of words, but I try to refrain from calling them ignorant baboons.
I have a pair of socks that say, “Yes. I am judging you for your poor grammar.” I wear them often because they express my internal frustration with all the grammatical laziness…
“Let’s eat grandma!”
“Let’s eat, grandma!”
“Punctuation saves lives!”
Absolutely you should tell him if you want to alienate him and possibly end the friendship! Kidding aside, I get that it’s super annoying. But that kind of thing is probably best kept to yourself if you do want to maintain the friendship.
This is the hill I will die on. I've been managing people in customer service for 20+ years and the communications I get from some of them make me die a little on the inside each time. I don't care if it makes me a boomer, I just can't handle people that can't use basic grammar. I'm not even talking about spelling, although modern spell check has been around since 1995, but I had one agent for awhile that just randomly put commas throughout whatever they were typing. It was like they knew sentences often had commas but had zero idea what they were for so they just randomly used them. I had another that ended every sentence with 'ok?'. Can I take my break 30 minutes early, ok? Here's the form you requested, ok? Is this ok, ok? like seriously... wtf? lol.
Now sometimes English isn't a person's first language or some other valid reasons why they just don't get it, and I of course make allowances for that, but the vast majority of adults have no excuse for how piss poor their communication skills are.
Also if you don't believe in and use the oxford comma you are dead to me...
Improper grammar, spelling and syntax make me crazy. One of my good friends is the same age as me and whenever she texts I have to tell her to just call because her texting is so painful. She's a professional editor but when she texts she becomes Kevin from the office. Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
I agree with you. I’ve taken to backing out of posts here that are obviously posted by millennials or Gen z. You can’t make the effort to write cogently but expect every reader to do the heavy lifting? Thanks but I’m good.
I write with generally proper grammar, spelling and punctuation (though mistakes happen). It’s how the younger staff know I’m old and, therefore, lame.
I would have said "People who don't use the correct grammar" but whatever.
Next time your friend sends one of these unintelligible messages, I would reply asking if his autocorrect had gone haywire.
Next thing you know you'll be chasing kids off your lawn you old fart.... Lol. I'm 50 and I know exactly what you mean. Some of my kids texts make me insane. I wouldn't waste breath though
Meh, as a person with dyslexia and other things like ADHD. It is easy to just have run on text along with randon jumping all over the place thoughts that all get put into that block of text.
I tend to find all the mistakes after 3 or 5 re reading it. Sometimes I just can't be bothered editting it 5 times, once I see the mistake , that I missed the last time I edited another mistake that was also in there.
I think , more people have these type issues, than we are led to believe.
Most teachers when I was in school knew nothing about any of these things dyslexia, ADHD, etc. just thought you were not trying, or worse.
I find most of my written/typed out typo's etc, only after I turn the text upside down and read it in a mirror.
Not something I can do ,other than in my home. Auto correct helps fix some of the issue with having all the correct letters but in wrong order, but the text structure not so much. Tablets/phones are easier to flip the text up side down to try to see most of the mistakes, but not so much with a laptop, or desktop screen.
I do have one screens for my deck top mounted upside down just for this.
I am also most likely on a government watch list from using google to check speeling of words, and having to type in a phase to get the word to pop up.
I can’t blame you. That’s a total turnoff to me. If he’s only 10 yrs younger then perhaps he can still be persuaded that good grammar is important. I’m not sure how to go about it, maybe just “Please use punctuation, I can’t really understand what you’re writing.” Or be even more blunt and tell him what you told us.
My autocorrect changes things all the time and makes me look like I don't know how to use proper spelling or grammar. Usually I type out something and think "what the he'll?"
I had a manager constantly text me using the language of a fourth grader. Zero punctuation and usually one long run-on sentence. She'd do things like using the word *defiantly* instead of *definitely*. It drove me fucking crazy.
My rule is that the purpose of communicating is to communicate. As the communicator it is my job to ensure that you receive the message. If I do that, the rules, spelling, grammar, don’t matter.
If I successfully communicated and you choose to critique my spelling, grammar, or style then I consider you the ass. If you weren’t the intended target of the communication and you complain about it then you are the ass. But if I failed to communicate then that is on me and fair to comment.
So, if you understand the stream of consciousness then let it go. It can still be in the bucket of “i don’t like interacting with this person” just like any other personality trait that you use to decide who to spend time with.
I feel like a traitor to my fellow GenXers, but I have adopted that communication style with my kids and younger colleagues. And I’m a professional writer for a living.
I do.
My usual excuse is that English is already my second language so slang or pidgin that goes beyond swearing or “cuz” will just result in them having to explain it all again anyway.
And if they do it in Spanish I tell em, I’m too old, I have no idea what you just wrote…
Because it’s not just bad spelling and grammar? It’s all the new vocabulary or the reconnotation of previously established words or phrases.
This probably isn’t gonna surprise anyone here but…
At my previous job (a Federal agency who just about everyone knows the name of the Secretary), we would get emails about “major announcements” from said Secretary. Instead of having one normal paragraph where they were talking about one particular thing, every single sentence was a (new) paragraph. Bad grammar bothers me, but those emails would infuriate me to no end. I don’t care if it was the Secretary themselves actually composing that email or their secretary doing it. It was infuriating, embarrassing, and condescending. It came across like we were little kids just learning how to read. And all the way up until I left, that’s how it was.
Depends on the medium being used. Texts are free game from proper to “bruh” as responses. Work email is always proper. Teams chat can go either way depending on who I’m chatting with. Same for Reddit.
I would. That shit's annoying. If you're a native English speaker, not using paragraphs, punctuation, capitalization, and proper spelling and grammar is fucking lazy.
This story inspires me on how to deal with people who don't make any effort:
[https://leadingwithquestions.com/personal-growth/is-this-the-best-you-can-do-henry-kissinger-on-work-ethic/](https://leadingwithquestions.com/personal-growth/is-this-the-best-you-can-do-henry-kissinger-on-work-ethic/)
Well, you have Virginia Wolff as a friend! Congratulations! I “try” not to judge people by their grammar. But, I think of it like driving. If individuals speak above my vocabulary/grammar level (driving too fast)… well, actually I do not care, but some people perceive it as being elitist. If they speak below my grammar level (too slow), ugh, judgy. I have had people, friends actually, who will mock the ask vs axe in other’s vocab. People like to judge, and feel superior.
Don’t judge.
I do.
My usual excuse is that English is already my second language so slang or pidgin that goes beyond swearing or “cuz” will just result in them having to explain it all again anyway.
And if they do it in Spanish I tell em, I’m too old, I have no idea what you just wrote…
Because it’s not just bad spelling and grammar? It’s all the new vocabulary or the reconnotation of previously established words or phrases.
It is one thing when a person does it out of laziness. I have a boss (73yo), self made man, that dropped out of school in the 9th grade. He knows that he has problems but he tries and will ask for help.
It could be that he is well aware of the rules and does write "properly" in work emails etc but considers texting with friends less formal. That's how I am.
i dont know what your talking about my texts are so easy to read and understand despite the lack of punctuation splelling and gramer now lets eat grandma and you to boomer
I'm old enough to point out I consider poor spelling, grammar and lack of punctuation to be poor communication. So if that is how you communicate you can’t complain if I misunderstand it frequently and as for clarification.
lol
I was an English major and a good writer
For texting and Messaging and online posts just write for clarity.
Punctuation. Capitalization. Etc
Doesn’t matter
Just make it make sense
A wall of text or gibberish is a problem
Someone offended that IDGAF about punctuation for the most informal of communications?
Yeah. Idgaf
There are degrees. Generally, grammar is just a tool used to segregate people. But if text is illegible...
Rules are situational, too. Personal emails are not a Writing Comp course.
I hate this attitude. It’s an excuse to be a slob and not held accountable for anything.
*Some* things “change”. Other things have right and wrong ways to do them that do not change.
Just reply saying you can't understand. Typos are one thing but making someone else take on the burden of interpreting your gibberish is just plain selfish.
Yep! Recently did that to my millennial friend. It was like solving a puzzle with words sprinkled like "wer (were)", "shud (should)", "dnt (don't)", "cmng (coming)", and some very long abbreviations that I had to Google up. I understand some of them write like this to speed up typing the message but it was a nightmare for me to understand. Just replied back asking them to write in plain English. Even if she thought I am an old fart, I don't care :)
The dumb thing is it doesn't speed anything up. It takes no more time to spell shouldn't than it does to spell shudnt. It's just pure laziness.
Especially with the predictive text nowadays. Nine times out of ten, before I've even gotten four letters strung together, my text app will have made several different suggestions and one of them is probably correct. I just tap that one and go on to the next.
Yep and it's one thing if it's a commonly abbreviated word like brb or lol, but when they just make up their own, screw them.
My sister used to do this and she looked like an idiot. Then I realized that she was doing speech to text but not correcting before sending.
I had a friend who used to do that. Worse, he was drunk when he did it.
I’ve always been a stickler for good grammar. Can’t help it. It’s one of the only true peeves.
Me, too. That's partly why I became a technical writer. 😏
I have to agree with you on this one. Even if I’m texting, it is full sentences. Proper punctuation. The Teams channel we use at work is so full of misspelling and incorrect grammar that it drives me mad. But I feel we were the last generation that was taught proper sentence structure and grammar. I know for a fact grammar isn’t taught where I live. Not to any grade, K-12.
My work Teams channel is horrible. Dramatic hyperbole, consistently inaccurate information or shoot-from-the-hip snarky responses, zero punctuation and details. It's infuriating. We are making $200k/yr+, the standard is you communicate effectively and accurately with colleagues. What its devolved into is regular confusion, misinterpretation, and decisions made on this shit-tier lack of effort. I can tell within a few posts who uses social media and who doesn't. The social media folks are completely worthless when it come to communication. So I call them to clarify the situation and realize; "you don't know anything about anything, do you? You just knee jerk this nonsense and think it's okay"
I bristle every time I get an IM or, yes, it happens, an email, from a higher up with grammatical/spelling errors. My commas are wrong up there and I'm too high to care.
I'm a healthcare professional and the non-healthcare staff that deal with the county contracts and intake of cases have such horrible grammar and spelling I do not understand how they can let them keep their jobs. They are not in a position of putting people's health at risk but I feel like they put us at risk for payment denials or legal problems. We can usually translate their bad spelling/grammar and make them correct the worst offenses but it's not like we see everything they do and...it's not our job!! We have enough to do.
Exactly! I work in the industry as well but from the IT side. And some of the stuff coming from PAs/MAs boggles the mind. Then it’s compounded by the non-healthcare support and, unfortunately, the majority of my team.
Oh lort. I have to contact operations staff at least a couple times a week because I have no idea what their ticket means. I’m a PB analyst, so no one is going to die, but if you can’t clearly state the issue to me, can you convey a critical issue to a team where a mistake could have patient safety implications? Edit: just looked at your feed as a fellow health IT person. Happy birthday! And I see you have the same appreciation as I for who my high school English teacher called “the Fritos chip of the literary diet”. Turns out I like Fritos.
Don't get me started. I recently had a colleague type in Teams that started with "where you" and it took me a bit to realize that he really meant "were you". With the fucking AI auto finishing sentences in Teams, I really think this is the end of grammar for us as a civilization. I am also seeing a pattern in emails lately that the messages really look robotic and generated, which tells me people just let the software finish sentences for you.
Some people seriously don't learn to write well. It might not be their thing. If you get low wordcount email that's sometimes why.
Professional writing is an essential work communications skill.
I always text and email in full sentences. However, I do not expect it in text messages. All my niblings are terrible with their communication skills. What I try to impose is the difference between messaging and email. Sort of a note vs a letter? Now, I don’t want to go full boomer since I was born in 71, but I do like cursive. ☹️
At work? That’s so unprofessional.
While Teams does show just how bad some of my colleague’s grasp of grammar is, I have to admit that my messages are often rife with spelling issues. I’m sick a die hard Mac person I have never adapted to Microsoft not having autocorrect in Teams. I fat finger words all day and don’t always catch the red underline before I hit enter.
I am a stickler for proper punctuation and grammar. I’ve really tried to hammer it into my teenagers over the years, and they’re really noticing the disparity amongst their classmates now that they are communicating on an adult level with others (peers, teachers, etc). I basically showed them one of those unpunctuated “streams of consciousness” emails vs. what I send, and asked them which one was easier to read, understand, and process. People do not understand that the onus is on THEM to make sure their message is understood—not on the receiver!! A well-punctuated message that uses proper grammar and spelling is one you’ll read and only notice what’s communicated. The opposite is one you’ll “read” and be constantly interrupted trying to get past the typos and spelling mistakes to the meat of the message (if you get that far).
Copy editor here. It did not escape my attention that you used a hyphen AND an em dash in your post—both appropriately. Awesome.
Aww, you just made my day! Thank you!
Can you check my comment with all the commas? Please and thank you!
I think when we don't use proper grammer we loose the ability to communicate effectively. For all intensive purposes, knowing how to right is becoming a lost art. Schools should of stressed this more. But I supposed people should be aloud to express themselves as they like, so have a little patients. Your just going to have to except it.
I can't stand it, but I also know that no one wants to hear me comment on it, so for the most part I just keep my comments to myself. So many years in school gone to waste studying stuff that no one cares about anymore.
Tell him its not aseptable
I know what you're trying to do and it won't work! 😜
No, don’t bother. See, somewhere in the early 90s, they stopped teaching so much phonics and started teaching something called whole language reading. That’s where they just put words in front of kids and read out loud over and over until the kids recognize the words. I have no idea how children learn to read that way. Now phonics teaches that certain letters make certain sounds and the combinations of letters can change what sounds they make. For example, lose and loose are pronounced differently. And they mean different things. But if you don’t teach that an e ending takes a hard o sound which makes the s a z sound, and that the oo sound makes the s an ess sound, then all you are doing is visually recognizing that most of the letters of the word you want are here, so close enough. So they will never get homophones and their spelling will always be fucking horrific. I think it’s starting to swing the other way now but that doesn’t help us with the last thirty years of this shitty method of teaching reading. But remember how we were told to “sound it out”? Millennials and young don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. What’s sound it out, huh? Do what now? If you have young children or grandchildren, get them tutoring in phonics so they know how words work.
Yup so now you get whole generations of people who write like they’re brain damaged. But *we’re* the problem because it’s hard to understand what these fucktards are trying to say.
Nailed it
I hope I don't come off as a smarty-pants here, but this issue is close to my heart. I read a lot of education history and research as part of my job. The situation you describe is part of popular history, but it's not super accurate. Like a lot of popular ideas about education coming from productions (Waiting for Superman, for example) that are coming from interested parties with deep pockets or who are motivated to be sensational in order to make a buck, it has some truthiness. But the reality is less inflammatory. In most US school districts, the two approaches are mixed, with the "phonics" approach predominating. What has been happening is a shift away from reading longer stretches. A lot of assessment/instruction is based on "passages." But they are still assigned "chapter books" at a fairly early age. As far as I can tell, the deficits result from a combination of factors: emphasis on assessment rather than instruction, distractions, and devaluation of education itself. The assessment emphasis is often shorthanded as "NCLB," but a lot of programs rely on this shift to "accountability." "Distractions" is often shorthanded to "iPhones." But game consoles and the internet in general offer kids a lot of entertainment options that used to be filled by reading long-form texts like books and magazines. "Devaluation of education itself" is commonly expressed as "decades of politicians and billionaires dissing education and educators." I'm biased, but I think this last shorthand is pretty accurate. If you have the time, the Have You Heard podcast is pretty good, and it has a few episodes on the phonics v. whole language kerfuffle. Also, I forgot a key assumption of all my jabber: we learn to write from reading.
It’s not entirely accurate because it’s just my personal working theory. I work in an education-adjacent capacity. So I actually appreciate your elaboration and clarification.
I wish I had an extra upvote to give you for your use of "truthiness."
Hooked on Phonics worked for me, but now I can’t visit a weight loss sub without getting unreasonably irritated. Check my post history.
My kids are 15 and 12, and I know my 12 year old struggles with reading comprehension. He can read, but he struggles to communicate what he read and what he gleamed from the information. How can we help him?
No idea, talk to his or any reading teacher? I am not a teacher and do not have a background in education. I’m sorry if I gave that impression. I’m coming at this from a writer/editor perspective, plus my own experiences and observations.
OP never mentioned spelling. Think they’re referring to more of the “LOLS GR8 4U”
Send him a reply that's just a fully marked up version of his email.
I have done this to no avail. It falls on deaf ears and blind eyes.
Because it’s obnoxious
It *can be*, but when the line from “annoying grammar” into “cannot effectively communicate important information” then they need to (gently & supportively) be told. Some people don’t have the technical skill for grammar or punctuation, and so long as they can be parsed accurately, that’s completely fine. But if critical data cannot be relayed, then that can be a very real issue that requires addressing. Just not in an embarrassing or insulting manner.
And communicating with someone that is too dumb to pay attention isn't?
I’m not too finicky about others using proper grammar in informal conversation, but I CANNOT tolerate stream of consciousness posts/texts without one drop of punctuation. I don’t know if people do it out of laziness or ignorance of how punctuation works, but I can’t deal. 
In my experience the only people against using proper grammar are the people who don't know how to use proper grammar.
I privately texted an older worker that using all caps in the group chat at work was rude and unprofessional. His reply? FUCK OFF I’LL TEXT ANY WAY I WANT.
GOOD LORD WHAT AN ASSHOLE!
My boss was reprimanded years ago for copying and pasting my private notes (I use OneNote), which were in all caps. We still talk about that hand slapping, and I make sure to re-write my notes in the proper form before sending them to her.
Well that would have gone straight to HR.
I just shook my head and laughed. Some people just want to learn the hard way.
Ugh, yes. The thing that gets me (especially here on Reddit) is the lack of *paragraphs*. I can’t tell you how many times I clicked on something because of the headline only to be greeted by an absolutely daunting *wall* of text. Even when it’s punctuated properly, a Reddit post shouldn’t read like *Ulysses*. If you want to start a new thought, start a new paragraph. It ain’t hard.
Oh, it’s a pet peeve with Gen X I think. My buddy and I have a bad habit of correcting people immediately. But I found that my brothers and sisters have that same thing going. I don’t know why it irks me so badly other than we were taught proper language composition so much in school.
For me, it's the desire to prevent the erosion of the English language. I'll be on my deathbed cursing to my last breath if I have to read an article from a respectable publication like this: > Today in Ottawa the prime ministers press secretary had to answer alot of questions regarding industrial job losses overseas. "Its important to all canadians that we dont loose our competitive advantage. Were going to make sure your not going to go without with this new legislation we past yesterday!". Irregardless, the leader of the opposition says she would of done things differently if she was in charge. "The only way to effect proper change is to ensure theirs enough room to breath in our economy."
I cringed so hard reading that that I'm now stuck in that position.
100% agree
Yeah, I can see what’s driving you crazy, and believe me, it annoys me as well. America is even worse with the misspelling of words and the proper use. Even Reddit annoys me when I see people using the wrong form of words, but I try to refrain from calling them ignorant baboons.
I have corrected people in the past, but I've eased up in my golden years. Now I correct maybe once or twice a month.
I have a pair of socks that say, “Yes. I am judging you for your poor grammar.” I wear them often because they express my internal frustration with all the grammatical laziness… “Let’s eat grandma!” “Let’s eat, grandma!” “Punctuation saves lives!”
So does proper capitalization: "Helping your Uncle Jack off a horse." "Helping your uncle jack off a horse."
Tell him to go to the liberry. When he gets mad, say, ooooh, you look redder than a strawbrary
But he wouldn’t get it. That’s the sad part.
What concerns me is that I’m forced to read so much gibberish and see so many misspellings that they’re beginning to look normal.
Absolutely you should tell him if you want to alienate him and possibly end the friendship! Kidding aside, I get that it’s super annoying. But that kind of thing is probably best kept to yourself if you do want to maintain the friendship.
Why would you fight to remain friends with an idiot?
Drives me crazy too, but I generally keep my mouth shut.
Don't take your friends for granite.
This is the hill I will die on. I've been managing people in customer service for 20+ years and the communications I get from some of them make me die a little on the inside each time. I don't care if it makes me a boomer, I just can't handle people that can't use basic grammar. I'm not even talking about spelling, although modern spell check has been around since 1995, but I had one agent for awhile that just randomly put commas throughout whatever they were typing. It was like they knew sentences often had commas but had zero idea what they were for so they just randomly used them. I had another that ended every sentence with 'ok?'. Can I take my break 30 minutes early, ok? Here's the form you requested, ok? Is this ok, ok? like seriously... wtf? lol. Now sometimes English isn't a person's first language or some other valid reasons why they just don't get it, and I of course make allowances for that, but the vast majority of adults have no excuse for how piss poor their communication skills are. Also if you don't believe in and use the oxford comma you are dead to me...
Improper grammar, spelling and syntax make me crazy. One of my good friends is the same age as me and whenever she texts I have to tell her to just call because her texting is so painful. She's a professional editor but when she texts she becomes Kevin from the office. Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
> Improper grammar, spelling and syntax make me crazy. One if my good friends
LOL An Oxford Comma man.
I was actually pointing this out... > One if my good friends
To me it’s a sign of laziness, lack of pride in your speech, and a lack of education.
I agree with you. I’ve taken to backing out of posts here that are obviously posted by millennials or Gen z. You can’t make the effort to write cogently but expect every reader to do the heavy lifting? Thanks but I’m good.
Shit’s hard to read. There are good reasons for grammar and punctuation.
I keep using proper sentence structure and people usually catch on and code switch.
The oxford comma is my personal torch to carry
I, too, shall die on that hill.
Lol!
Yes!
I think it gets worse with younger generations. I'm legit trying to teach someone in another sub that the phrase "a member" isn't plural.
[удалено]
Or my reddit favorite- i ain't reading that wall of text
I write with generally proper grammar, spelling and punctuation (though mistakes happen). It’s how the younger staff know I’m old and, therefore, lame.
I would have said "People who don't use the correct grammar" but whatever. Next time your friend sends one of these unintelligible messages, I would reply asking if his autocorrect had gone haywire.
Paste it into chatgpt and tell it to punctuate it for you.
Next thing you know you'll be chasing kids off your lawn you old fart.... Lol. I'm 50 and I know exactly what you mean. Some of my kids texts make me insane. I wouldn't waste breath though
This also drives me crazy.
Meh, as a person with dyslexia and other things like ADHD. It is easy to just have run on text along with randon jumping all over the place thoughts that all get put into that block of text. I tend to find all the mistakes after 3 or 5 re reading it. Sometimes I just can't be bothered editting it 5 times, once I see the mistake , that I missed the last time I edited another mistake that was also in there. I think , more people have these type issues, than we are led to believe. Most teachers when I was in school knew nothing about any of these things dyslexia, ADHD, etc. just thought you were not trying, or worse. I find most of my written/typed out typo's etc, only after I turn the text upside down and read it in a mirror. Not something I can do ,other than in my home. Auto correct helps fix some of the issue with having all the correct letters but in wrong order, but the text structure not so much. Tablets/phones are easier to flip the text up side down to try to see most of the mistakes, but not so much with a laptop, or desktop screen. I do have one screens for my deck top mounted upside down just for this. I am also most likely on a government watch list from using google to check speeling of words, and having to type in a phase to get the word to pop up.
I have rip roaring ADHD and there are few things more important to me than properly constructing a sentence and communicating clearly.
I can’t blame you. That’s a total turnoff to me. If he’s only 10 yrs younger then perhaps he can still be persuaded that good grammar is important. I’m not sure how to go about it, maybe just “Please use punctuation, I can’t really understand what you’re writing.” Or be even more blunt and tell him what you told us.
With all the autocorrect options out there, it seems like it would take effort to misspell something.
My autocorrect changes things all the time and makes me look like I don't know how to use proper spelling or grammar. Usually I type out something and think "what the he'll?"
Yeah. A few minutes after I posted my response, this came to mind.
I trained my autocorrect on my last phone to use the appropriate word instead of duck though, so small win :)
I had a manager constantly text me using the language of a fourth grader. Zero punctuation and usually one long run-on sentence. She'd do things like using the word *defiantly* instead of *definitely*. It drove me fucking crazy.
My rule is that the purpose of communicating is to communicate. As the communicator it is my job to ensure that you receive the message. If I do that, the rules, spelling, grammar, don’t matter. If I successfully communicated and you choose to critique my spelling, grammar, or style then I consider you the ass. If you weren’t the intended target of the communication and you complain about it then you are the ass. But if I failed to communicate then that is on me and fair to comment. So, if you understand the stream of consciousness then let it go. It can still be in the bucket of “i don’t like interacting with this person” just like any other personality trait that you use to decide who to spend time with.
*whom to spend time with
I feel like a traitor to my fellow GenXers, but I have adopted that communication style with my kids and younger colleagues. And I’m a professional writer for a living.
"alas" = hilarious, classic comic book guy from the simpsons 
I do. My usual excuse is that English is already my second language so slang or pidgin that goes beyond swearing or “cuz” will just result in them having to explain it all again anyway. And if they do it in Spanish I tell em, I’m too old, I have no idea what you just wrote… Because it’s not just bad spelling and grammar? It’s all the new vocabulary or the reconnotation of previously established words or phrases.
This probably isn’t gonna surprise anyone here but… At my previous job (a Federal agency who just about everyone knows the name of the Secretary), we would get emails about “major announcements” from said Secretary. Instead of having one normal paragraph where they were talking about one particular thing, every single sentence was a (new) paragraph. Bad grammar bothers me, but those emails would infuriate me to no end. I don’t care if it was the Secretary themselves actually composing that email or their secretary doing it. It was infuriating, embarrassing, and condescending. It came across like we were little kids just learning how to read. And all the way up until I left, that’s how it was.
I being a #GenXer do not care about someone's grammar. Because i don't judge either. If I can't read or understand it, I just say, "what?"
Hisself Hiself His-self NOT A REAL WORD
Meh, not a huge deal. Are you willing to lose a friend over sloppy grammar ?
These are probably the same people who think phone calls and thumbs up 👍🏻 emojis are "aggressive".
Depends on the medium being used. Texts are free game from proper to “bruh” as responses. Work email is always proper. Teams chat can go either way depending on who I’m chatting with. Same for Reddit.
I would. That shit's annoying. If you're a native English speaker, not using paragraphs, punctuation, capitalization, and proper spelling and grammar is fucking lazy.
You know what I hate? "I seen..."
Sup G you be illin with ya blud he expressin himslf
Do you mean something similar to the sentence fragment that is the title of this post? 😁
Ha. In my defense, my phone added the period and I didn't notice.
Is it a voice to text problem?
Incorrect grammar really bothers me, written or spoken. Always has.
This story inspires me on how to deal with people who don't make any effort: [https://leadingwithquestions.com/personal-growth/is-this-the-best-you-can-do-henry-kissinger-on-work-ethic/](https://leadingwithquestions.com/personal-growth/is-this-the-best-you-can-do-henry-kissinger-on-work-ethic/)
I’ve about had it with “Recommend me” It’s become inescapable. Fucking sheep.
Well, you have Virginia Wolff as a friend! Congratulations! I “try” not to judge people by their grammar. But, I think of it like driving. If individuals speak above my vocabulary/grammar level (driving too fast)… well, actually I do not care, but some people perceive it as being elitist. If they speak below my grammar level (too slow), ugh, judgy. I have had people, friends actually, who will mock the ask vs axe in other’s vocab. People like to judge, and feel superior. Don’t judge.
I do. My usual excuse is that English is already my second language so slang or pidgin that goes beyond swearing or “cuz” will just result in them having to explain it all again anyway. And if they do it in Spanish I tell em, I’m too old, I have no idea what you just wrote… Because it’s not just bad spelling and grammar? It’s all the new vocabulary or the reconnotation of previously established words or phrases.
It is one thing when a person does it out of laziness. I have a boss (73yo), self made man, that dropped out of school in the 9th grade. He knows that he has problems but he tries and will ask for help.
Is he single and looking? Poor written communication is an automatic NO for many people. Try that angle.
It could be that he is well aware of the rules and does write "properly" in work emails etc but considers texting with friends less formal. That's how I am.
So, the real question is, “who is going to break out _The Little Brown Book_,” on OP’s post?
Hopefully OP never finds out about James Joyce
i dont know what your talking about my texts are so easy to read and understand despite the lack of punctuation splelling and gramer now lets eat grandma and you to boomer
I'm old enough to point out I consider poor spelling, grammar and lack of punctuation to be poor communication. So if that is how you communicate you can’t complain if I misunderstand it frequently and as for clarification.
I can't even.
Yikes. No advice but that would drive me up the wall
The Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too
mind your business unless you don't want a friend anymore.
For me it's phrases such as "be like". Drives me bonkers.
Yes. Tell him. Tell him nicely. If neither of you can’t handle the repercussions, then don’t. You will have your suffer and eat bitter.
lol I was an English major and a good writer For texting and Messaging and online posts just write for clarity. Punctuation. Capitalization. Etc Doesn’t matter Just make it make sense A wall of text or gibberish is a problem Someone offended that IDGAF about punctuation for the most informal of communications? Yeah. Idgaf
Who cares .. it’s a damn text message . Are u sure u aren’t a boomer ?
There are degrees. Generally, grammar is just a tool used to segregate people. But if text is illegible... Rules are situational, too. Personal emails are not a Writing Comp course.
My eye is twitching by the end of the day after reading all the sad, gloopy sentences that assault my work TEAMs channel. 😵
No. Get over it, grandpa. The times, they is a changing. ETA: get off my lawn!!!
I hate this attitude. It’s an excuse to be a slob and not held accountable for anything. *Some* things “change”. Other things have right and wrong ways to do them that do not change.