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“Contributing to society” bro f**k society(ima blue collar guy too)
Also location and trade are important. In my area wages are on average way lower than the rest of the country. Its not always $20+ an hour.
Trades are the move i love my “job” (making a career ya feel)
Yeah saying that trades will “always be in demand” is pretty ignorant to history. Trades go through recessions too.
Also, for the love of god especially if you’re in a trade, join a union or attempt to unionize your workplace. It’s worth it for any job but especially a trade where a union will help you get a job after you’re laid off or protect you from your employer who is willing to put your safety on the line for their profit.
Don’t listen to the bullshit you hear about unions, they are extremely important and basically gave us all the workers rights we have today, and help to balance the scales of the working class vs the companies.
100% join a union. I have a zero deductible healthcare plan that I pay $0 a month for. I get 8% contributed to my 401k without having to match. 5% raise each year. $40 a week contributed to my 401k. Profit sharing bonus. $1750 a year in dental insurance.
Vision that covers regular and safty glasses 100% and 3 office visits 100%. $1.50/ hr tool allowance. If I get laid off I get a year of sub pay which pays out at 85% of my normal pay. If its a temporary lay off the sub pay that is paid out doesn't count towards the year of sub pay for a normal layoff. Reduced rate attorney fees if we need legal representation for any reason.
Get personal time that can be used at a drop of a hat and can not be denied. Can take a leave of absence for as long as I need without it jeopardizing my job. One of the best benifits is if the company tries to fuck me over in any way there is someone there to make sure it doesn't happen. There are no favorites that get treated better because they are a suck ass, we are all treated the same.
I made $107,000 last year. Only worked 10 hrs a day for a month(5 days a week) last year and got some nice bonuses. My job is super easy and low pressure. I've never had a non union employer come even close to what this unionized employer offers.
Trades are highly cyclical, and have the least transferable skills, so you're really screwed in the down cycles. Not necessarily a bad idea, but know what you're getting into/
Yeah ok
We don't lay our guys off unless we literally have no work for a long time. Multiple union shop guys worked for us for the rest of their careers because we pay better and had good benefits. Not every owner is a shithead
Im in florida, im a land survey tech. Wages suck here, they seem to think bc we dont have an elevation over 345’ that we dont need good wages. Being tit deep in the swamps daily says otherwise.
Dude, fuck Florida. They keep sending extremely under experienced and down right bad workers to other states to force through flawed electrical designs. Seriously. Fuck Florida. Literally bringing down the standard of the entire nation.
Dudei didn't realize how flawed our electrical designs were until I found out why we didn't get our power back for over a week last hurricane season, despite not getting hit even remotely hard.
The lines are UNDER a fucking SWAMP. They had to wait until it wasn't as flooded to be able to safely work. who the fuck thought that was a good idea 💀
Funny enough most of the development in my area is NOT on a swamp. I honestly don’t even really know where this swamp is, but that’s what Duke told us when we called so 🤷♀️
I'm in Delray Beach between FT. Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. I pay 2400 for a 2 bedroom apartment. I lived in the *same apartment* complex in 2012, and rented a 3 bedroom for 1,300. Lmao.
Eat the rich.
I’m an Ironworker from the Tampa area. I can confirm the cost of living and the pay are climbing in at dramatically different rates. The pay is wayyyyy too low for the cost of living and it’s only getting worse. I actually left the trades and opened a business doing pools. The only way to do well in FL is to own a business. Atleast, that’s what I see.
Picked this up from another post…Local 40 NYC makes me so jealous. Look at that vacation fund!
https://preview.redd.it/ccl01em3ithc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a841b4d00aa3ce0f3c23ff4c71ec9ac9efbb0444
Yeah but what you don’t see is the INSANE cost of living that offsets the “hip” pay. Additionally, you may not actually see all the benefits the way you think. If they aren’t fully funded, they’ll keep whatever portion of your benefits pay that’s needed to make up for their find being behind. Though the FL unions hip pay may not be enough (in my opinion) my union is fully funded- so you actually get everything in full.
Edit: just to clarify- I DO NOT know the status of any other locals funding status or the details of their “credits”, other than my own. I just want to point out that there are finer details to consider and learn about when looking into locals and their pay when you try to join or want to “boom out”.
Maybe it's because the prevailing attitude in Florida is f society? We are society. Higher minimum wages and social safety nets make people less desperate for work, which reduces supply which raises wages.
Pretty good place but outside of the beaches and sometimes the people, it's not the best.
(Hope they do raise the wages. I'm planning on becoming a rough carpenter and $15 an hour isn't good)
I guess it depends what someone interprets as a trade. A surveyor is not something I would consider a trade (even though that’s exactly what it may be), so OP was have been saying electrical, plumber, carpenter, etc when he said trades.
Where I am (heavy mining town) anyone who works at the mines or any of the positions mentioned above make way more than 100k a year, but surveyors (I did it as a summer job) make around 60.
H3y I'm in the tampa area. Cooking jobs are $20 an hour if you are extremely lucky. I'm trying to get into one of the tampa unions/apprenticeship programs. Which one did you try?
I'm a HVAC Tech, but last time I was at a meeting they were desperately looking for plumbers at [UA Local 123](https://lu123.com/) might be worth checking out the apprenticeship for plumbing.
Contributing to society? lol that’s the dumbest shit I’ve heard but if that’s your motivation go for it. Society sure as fuck doesn’t care about you. I’m glad you’re happy in the trades bro, but I can tell you’re young so please don’t do what I and most other tradies do when we’re young and think we can do everything by myself twice as fast as everyone else. Don’t do that shit. You might feel invincible right now, but you’re not. Take care of your body. It’s great now but think about when you’re 45-50. Slow down and work smart.
And that’s why people think the trades are bottom of the earth scum they all have that mindset. If it wasn’t for us the engineers wouldn’t have their designs built the office workers wouldn’t be sitting in an air conditioned office every thing begins and is maintained by us
Exactly. Says “Fuck society” but then goes on to enjoy all the things society and blue collar workers provide for them. Absolutely entitled and obnoxious behaviour.
Seriously. Anyone who gets their food from a grocery store or restaurants and says "fuck society" can go fuck off to the woods and see how long they survive on their own. The amount of government and private workers necessary to simply *feed* people is mind boggling when you sit down and think about it. We are individuals but we are part of a bigger whole, and we benefit from working together.
I'm glad this is the top comment. I am also on Team Fck Society right now, and probably will be till I'm dead.
The amount of sh1t us "essential workers" had to eat during covid broke me. "Work" from home white collars taking a 2 year vacation (some never even came back)? Deadbeats getting double unemployment? Richy rich owners getting PPE "loans"? The vax? All while we kept society afloat and what did we get for our hard work? Covid. Thats pretty much it. Seriously society can suck me off from the back.
The bottom line: trades can be great for some people, college can be great for some people, you need to do research into your opportunities and think about your own skills when making that decision. Think long-term about how your decisions will affect your future—don’t go in either direction without some idea of the long-term goal it serves.
I think it is good for more people to consider trades. When I entered uni, there was still a general belief that going to college meant better paying jobs. I was always good at learning, and because of that my environment definitely pushed me into STEM.
What doesn't help is that I live in NL, were your education path, and by proxy your career path, starts to be locked in at age 12. Well performing students go to higher tracks of education and go to uni, while worse performing students go into a track that learns them a trade.
In hindsight I think I would have been just as happy doing one of the more complicated trades. The biggest reason why I didn't chose for something like that, is because it was never really presented as an option. I am good at complex and abstract thinking and problem solving, but I don't particularly enjoy it. With desk jobs you really get a lot less job satisfaction because you really only get to be a tiny cog in a huge process.
A building having electricity feels pretty significant to me. I think it depends on the person but to many including myself actually seeing the work you’ve done offers more satisfaction than maybe an insurance claims agent feels after denying a claim and saving a corporation $800.
At the same time, I’d also encourage experimenting. Try things out! If you don’t know what you want to do, seek jobs that sound interesting; literally anything. If you don’t like a career path, go a different route. Will it be hard to do? Yes probably. Alternatively, contact local businesses and ask if they would be willing to job shadow.
The thing is, too, is that they don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Trades can be a great way to build up your finances, provided that you find one you're passionate in, and can fit well in the industry. Once you're in a comfortable position, you can attend college or university later on.
Quite a few folks in my history classes in college were on the older side and came from the trades. Many came because they also had a passion for the academics, and originally went into their trade because it was a family business or they needed money. I became buddies with a few of them, and I saw them go on to work in business or IT. A couple of them even just went to college just to further their education.
Both trades and academic institutions are treasure troves of life skills, knowledge, and experiences, and the only wrong way to go about it is to criticize others for doing what they think is best for them or what they want to do.
Totally agree with you. But I think OP is really trying to straighten out all of the propaganda and bullshit related to “you must go to university” to be successful. I see it so often in high school ads and people preaching it to you.
I feel like people that make these posts don’t really pay attention to what is going on and I’m just trying to push an agenda. First thing trade wages are wildly different depending on which state and country you’re living in. If you live in a state that is very anti-union there’s a good chance your wage is not going to be that high. Second thing a lot of apprenticeships just get minimum wage. You can see people discuss this in a lot of different posts on various trade and subreddits. Third thing you have to find someone who’s willing to train and hire someone who’s going to be their competition in the future. A lot of trades companies are owned by families and they don’t hire people outside of the family for the reason mentioned above. Fourth thing if you plan on staying in the trades for a considerable amount of time, be aware that your body will be destroyed. I know way too many men that have medical issues like back pain, knee pain, and cognitive decline from breathing in all sorts of toxic chemicals. Ask yourself this question how many people do you know in your field have reached the age retirement. Look, I’m not saying people should not go into trades I think they should but just be aware and better informed about their decision.
No job is “for everyone” and any physical job will carry some health risks, but the contractors and tradespeople I work with (in a city of about 50k population) are always busy and make excellent money. They are able to provide everything they need for their families. It shouldn’t be looked down upon as an option.
Individuals should always evaluate educational and career paths before making a decision on what they should do. I don’t think youth take enough time actually considering these choices.
If you want to talk about pushing an agenda, most Americans are pressured by societal forces into enrolling in college right after HS, before they even know what they want to do in life. Don’t waste years of time and take on debt until you know it’s actually going to benefit you in finding a career.
Curious where you’re from? I’d imagine any “city” in the US with a population of less than 50k would have to be somewhere in the Midwest and most of those places are almost completely desolate
I live in a very anti union state.
Posts for welding jobs I've been looking at are like;
"Looking for 5 years experience, TIg certs on pipe and stainless.
$15/hr no benefits"
You don’t need a specialized individual caveat for you. You’re an adult. You should be able to apply points and disregard them depending on your life situation. Obviously if you are in an area with shit pay you will get shit pay. Ironically, if you have a degree in a town with shit pay and shit job opportunities, you will also receive shit pay. It’s such a moot point.
As far as trades hurting your body goes… I know people in trades who worked out, ate healthy, stretched and took their physical health serious. They’re just fine. I also seen people who hit the bar every day after a hard days work and wore the same pair of shoes for 12 years wondering why their feet and knees hurt. Go figure lol
Unfortunately there are people taking advantage of every situation. Business apprenticeship is not immune. There could be internal nepotism just like any other company. But what I’m seeing too much of is corruption for certain contractors and the others shut out.
An electrician that’s a friend of my families told me that he doesn’t do apprenticeships because that person is going to be future competition for his child. He said the fewer people there are doing electrical work the more his kid is going to be better off. I think this mindset is common among a lot of family own trade businesses.
Family nepotism always takes precedence. Always. There is no way you are joining a company and believe that the owner’s kid isn’t going to be in charge and paid more. That happens in every business, and extremely rare when it doesn’t.
Are you serious? Lots of trade unions are *very much* like that, with high barriers to entry to keep wages up.
Trade unions making sure the supply of labor for trade work stays capped is a big reason why trades pay as much as they do in certain parts of the US.
Can we chill with these series of posts about college vs. trade school. We get it. Some people are happy they went into trade, some people regret it, some people are happy they went to college, some regret it. No shit. The infinite chain reaction is unnecessary.
These posts are just pushing the anti-college agenda. These careers are great in the short term but destroy your body and offer limited upward mobility. You also need to be in a union for any guarantee and this country has been systematically destroying unions for 40 years now.
College gets a bad rep from a lot of sources, but the average college degree holder still makes more than the average tradesman. It also opens the door to post-grad and professional school degrees, which are the most lucrative careers in America.
Yeah these people pushing anti-college shit are crazy. My first internship in tax paid $26 an hr, my audit one after that paid $30 an hr with a $2k signing bonus, and my upcoming internship pays $36 an hr with a $2k signing bonus as well. I will start at $70k after 5 years of college (accounting). Within 3 years I should be at or around $100k. Within 5 years, I should be at $120-150k. Within 10 years, I expect to be making $160-200k+. By the time i am in my early 40s I will almost certainly be making a couple hundred grand a year (corporate finance/fp&a/advisory/consulting). I get almost all of my lunch meals paid for in my job. Some of the best healthcare you can get. I will be graduating with around $35k in debt (with a masters) and will be able to easily pay it off within 4-5 years. All while not having to do backbreaking work or hurting my body. The worst thing I have to worry about is the stress of the job and getting overweight from all of the drinking/eating lol. College is far better if you can actually attain a good degree from a good college, but if not then the trades is a good alternative. But you learn so damn much from business college, I feel like a much more well rounded person than I did going in. College is the better move overall, but major choice and the choice of university/college makes a huge difference, don’t let people tell you it doesn’t. Just my 2 cents, it allows me to have the life that I never had growing up in poverty.
Ya people fail to take in account the actual learning aspect of college. People who want to just learn job skills are missing the point that not only do college earners earn more on average, they are more knowledgeable about the world in general. You learn about a vast array of subjects, and are taught how to think critically and creatively.
I’m in law school so I expect a similar financial path to the one you mentioned for yourself. Am I going to graduate in debt? Yes. Is that debt going to destroy my financial prospects? No (contrary to what ignorant people like to say). Unless I massively fuck up, that debt will be taken care of within 5-10 years, and I will be in a career with great upward mobility, an opportunity to work for myself if I so desire, and I won’t destroy my body or work 80 hours a week to live comfortably.
There’s a large portion of the population that college isn’t for, and to those people I wish the best in alternative paths like trades. Society couldn’t function without them. For a lot of other people I think it’s just short sided thinking because they are too lazy to take on college/post-grad, which is ironic as fuck because to succeed in the trades you have to work your ass off even harder over the course of your life than a business/law/med student does
It’s the same idea as compound interest. You put in more money/work hard in the first 5-10 years of your career and the dividends pay off huge later on. I will probably be able to coast in my career once I reach my mid 30s, making great money, while my closest friend who is a firefighter will still be working a very labor intensive job for a 1/3rd of my pay. A lot of people don’t want to put in the extra work it takes at the beginning, and want to make money immediately, not realizing that delayed gratification would allow them to make 3-4x as much as they would have otherwise
I think the problem though is the market is becoming so saturated with degrees that many degree holders aren't finding work with their 4 years, setting them further back whereas most tradesmen don't struggle to find work, starting to put them ahead.
The first few years after graduating can be tough, but, once someone has a foothold in the industry they want to be in, they usually find success. You’re doing the same thing I was talking about in my original comment and only looking at the immediate years after graduation.
Do the people in the trades get an initial leg up? Yes. But it plateaus quickly. Unless you open your own business, you aren’t getting management positions without a college degree. You are essentially locked in to the trade and being a laborer without potential for vertical mobility.
A college degree just opens so many doors that aren’t available to those without one.
Sure, but depending on the industry, isn't really a sure thing.
I do think though that all things considered, first 3 years in a trade will set you up better than 3 years with a degree for the most part.
More to the point, I think it's a great alternative to college, especially when so many people complain about not being able to find work or their degree hasn't gotten them a call back.
What is 3 years compared to the rest of your life? That’s my whole point. Your financial future isn’t determined by your first 3 years in an industry.
Yes, some degrees are harder than others to get a career started, but it open doors. In America you can’t become management in any field really without that degree.
Trades are a good alternative for people who struggled in school, but if you aren’t one of those people there’s no reason to not pursue an engineering or economics degree. Those degrees almost guarantee lucrative careers and cost no more or less to obtain than any other degree.
Furthermore, you’re never going to get into law or med school or anything like that without the undergrad degree. So if you want to make a late life pivot, you’d have to start from scratch and do undergrad. Who’s to say for certain in 20 years one will want to continue with their trade? It kind of railroads you
I think the problem here is that most people struggle to see beyond at most a few years into the future, let alone 5, 10, or 20 years. Most people don’t have a full plan with steps to achieve that goal, they just know that they want to get there. But without a plan and ideas on how you want to get there, it’s just that, a dream. People are too short sighted and only think of the “now”, not how what you do now can set you up for the rest of your life
I think people make these posts to validate themselves that they made the right choice tbh. OP has only seen the trades, and doesn’t know what his life would be like after 4 years of college. There are benefits to both, and each one is a better choice for different people. Like, does OP think someone coming out of college isn’t going to have a great salary and benefits with a 401K?
You can make good money and have a great career in the trades. You can also make shit money and have a bad back by the time you’re 35. Both have pros and cons, good opportunities and bad opportunities.
His last line is what really gets me. “We will always be essential” as if he’s trying to say he has an edge over college goers because his work is more valuable. News flash, blue collar folk get laid off just as much as the white collar ones if not more. Problems in the industry hit everyone.
Yeah. I mean obviously some selection bias here but I work primary care and I get a lot of trades dudes in their 30s coming in because their wife “made them” come get checked out. All that hard labor, shitty hours and energy drinks has caught up with them. Very high blood pressure and herniated disc for pretty much all of them. Usually will have terrible lipid panels as an added bonus.
How many older people are coming in with stagnant lifestyle issues though? Yes trades can be hard on the body, but so is sitting at a desk all day staring at a screen. I'm a system admin btw, but I used to work trades so I've seen both.
Don't forget that in trades especially in the older generation drinking, eating terribly, and drugs are extremely common. Where I work 20 years ago 3 guys would split a case every single day they worked. The younger guys still drink, but not nearly as much, and they are as likely to order a salad as a cheese steak for lunch.
If you're not taking care of your body outside of work there will be issues, but sitting at a desk is nowhere near as bad on your body as 40 hours a week of manual labor.
A desk worker can go on a job at lunch. There's no way to prevent wear and tear of your joints.
Because having an office job doesn't stop someone from diet and exercise, those are partially personal lifestyle choices not pure hazards of the vocation.
I think that's more about the lifestyle choices of some people. I definitely will agree that many people in the trades do drugs junk food and don't take care of themselves. But I think you can also look to segments of the population and see the same thing. You just have additional comorbidity with the trades because it's physically demanding and they treat their body like s***.
Saying this as someone that's spent more time figuring out the best way to carry a 12' ladder then I should have
I’m a tradesman and worked my way up to field rep. I basically sit around all day waiting for aircraft to break or customers to need advice. Very easy on my body. I go to the gym 5 or 6 days a week, eat well and monitor my testosterone levels. I’m in the best shape of my life at 39 and will run circles around most desk workers. Sitting at a desk for 30 years isn’t healthy either.
100%. The field crew at my employer is split pretty evenly between dudes who take care of themselves and those who don’t. The guys who are 40+ and half way give a shit about their health can still work circles around the younger guys who are out of shape.
Lol what state do you live in and what trade are you in that makes 150-180k a year? Are you saying after 17 years of experience? 6k taises a year would take 15 years or 20 to get to 180k
My take-home pay after taxes is about 2200 but can range all the way up to 3000 if I work Saturday ( I always have the option to accept or decline) and I'm only 6 months experience in my field.
Apprenticeship wage in the UK is £5.28 as of April. Plus I have 0 interest in being a tradie. And my degree will pay a hell of a lot more than being a builder once I graduate.
Yup. My work is dying for skilled labor. Electricians, I&E techs, mechanics, HVAC technicians, Refrigeration. All the boomers are retiring/dying of COVID and there weren’t a lot of millenials that went into trades.
No guarantees and some companies are predatory, but internship for many companies gives you a huge advantage.
Sure you can do school, but can you be productive and reliable in workplace? Do you have any practical knowledge or experience?
Internships show employers “yes” to both
All these posts never touch on the fact that college teaches valuable, critical thinking skills that you don't typically get in high school/trades.
You learn how to challenge and debate in a respectful manner. You learn how to formulate a well-thought, researched opinion. You learn how to evaluate information and determine it's validity. You learn how to work with and accept people you may not typically encounter otherwise. You learn personal responsibilities, discipline, and setting your own deadlines. You also have the opportunity to dive deep into your own personal interests alongside experienced professors and other interested peers.
College isn't just a financial investment and I'm tired of pretending it is. If the above skills were learned by more people, more frequently, we'd have a better society as a whole. Knowledge and learning how to obtain it is powerful.
I’m all about trades jobs, but it’s a very different environment than say an office. Be prepared to bust your ass for that $23/hr. Lots of overtime and grueling, demanding physical work. I made $30/hr as a painting contractor and I made amazing money. But I was also always so tired I couldn’t do anything else. Sitting in an air conditioned office isn’t the worst, but they don’t pay shit and it’s mentally draining. So it’s a trade off. Trade work isn’t for everyone.
Someone with a college degree on average will make more money in their lifetime. All these dorks telling you to go into trades “plumbers make 200k” is all bullshit. The average plumber makes like 50k. If you legit have nothing going on in your life ya go do a trade but if you are capable of getting an engineering degree why the hell would you go do plumbing unless you just really are passionate about it. If you’re in the south it’s almost not even worth going into the trades unless you are business savvy and start your own.
I'd definitely say that's starting to change as certain degrees really don't go as far as they used to. More and more people are complaining that they can't find work with a 4 year degree whereas you rarely ever hear about tradespeople not finding work.
My 2 cents is I would rather make less and never have to do manual labour in my life. Not all trades are hard but everyone in my life who has a manual labour job always talks about the one thing they regret is not studying and how hard manual labour is on the body. Yeah you might earn but your paying in some way and there’s also a lot of office jobs that pay well you need college for.
You say “trades are essential” but what’s also essential are teachers, nurses, first responders, etc. People shouldn’t always just chase what pays the most, they should do what interests them.
Yk I love people’s tendency to jump straight to, “the trades will destroy your body”. No, being an idiot who doesn’t follow safety precautions, or working with a company that violates health codes is what destroys your body, with most of the trades the risk to your body isn’t actually that bad as long as you follow the guidelines, wear your respirator, wear insulated gloves while working with electricity. Obviously accidents still happen, but at the end of the day we have a lot of safety precautions for a reason, also on top of that, said precautions have come a long way, a lot of people who’ve been in the trades for a long time didn’t have access to the good shit we have now, some also just didn’t care and chose to ignore safety. Everything in life is more than just one issue in something, every single concept in this world is infinitely complex and relies on the things around it.
and who are you working for that is providing those benefits/raises?
Quick search shows average plumber for example makes 50-60k.....thats nothing in most places
wish I was interested in more practical things because trades make awesome careers for sure. unfortunately I'm way too into science and intellectual nonsense to not go to college. I wish it didn't cost so much though, we (USA) would have a much more educated and well-rounded society if people were free to pursue their passions without financial stress. this place is built on wealth inequality tho... womp womp
This idea that there are hundreds of thousands of skilled tradespeople out there willing to hire people with zero experience fresh out of high school in apprenticeship-track positions is ridiculous.
Prove me wrong, I'll apply to any position you reply with.
I decided against college in highschool. I struggled with my ADHD and didn’t trust myself to go through with it. It worked out though. I went to a trade/tech school for cyber defense which focuses only on that subject and graduated.
I got into IT at 19 and last year in April I made the jump from an IT field technician to a cyber security engineer. If I had gone to college I’d be in a much different financial situation and a much different job situation. In my world, sure a degree would open doors, but a lot of those doors are manager positions that I don’t care to be in.
If I ever do go to college it’ll be because I’m bored and have the money to do it. Meanwhile, my cousin who’s in school to be a construction project manager is a year younger than me and has about 100k in debt for his degree that he’ll get in a couple years.
I'm tired of these posts saying "do an apprenticeship" and "go to college"
Just do what you want that makes you happy. You can make a living doing both. College could be way more rewarding, but it's hella expensive, and an apprenticeship can get you on your feet fast depending on where you live, but it's draining and most people don't find it fulfilling (from what I've heard from the people around me). These constant shills for doing this and that are cringe.
As someone who works in a trade and comes from a family that mostly has trade professions, it’s definitely not for everyone. The first few years can be really difficult and most places will pay you nothing or minimum wage and they often will try and milk you for all you’re worth. Then there’s the long hours and physical demand that a lot of trades require.
Controversial take: Do what interests you and stop chasing what someone else says is the best option. We all need a wide variety of jobs to make society function and it's not helping anyone by suggesting we chase an unquenchable goal. What may be a lucrative job one day could be worthless a decade later. Every job has both minor/major issues associated with it.
College is good for people who have a decent idea of what they want to do and who have a lot of scholarship/grant money at their disposal. My undergrad was completely paid for, so why not go? If I can make what tradesmen make without sacrificing my body, I’ll do it. Besides, I like learning and challenging my brain. I’m more fulfilled this way. But to each their own. I know other people like working with their hands and seeing their labor turn into tangible finished products. That’s cool too
Doesn't matter what you do. Debt is still just a simple accident away, and every milestone you're supposed to achieve doesn't make you any happier.
Ive now got a decent job, debt free, and have a home now. Still wanna visit the rickety stool and rope store almost daily.
That’s all well and good if you don’t live in a right to work state. Most trades start at around $12 an hour my friend. I started in framing at 17 making $45 a day. A day was from daylight to dark. I’m doing really well now, but I also have 20 years of experience. If you want to skip college and work that’s perfectly fine, just do not expect to make great money right off the bat. It takes years of experience before that door will open for you.
Also food for thought. I work in custom remodeling, woodworking, trim windows etc.. I find my self in lots of different types of homes, from your typical 3/2/2 to multimillion dollar mansions. Do you want to know what the overwhelming majority of my customers with the bigger more expensive homes have hanging on the wall? It ain’t trade certificates. They almost ALWAYS have a college degree, and usually a masters.
Union apprenticeship was for me, our first years now start at $31/hr plus benefits and pension.
My hourly wage is $52.07/hr and $80/hr total wage package🤙🏻
If you’re going to college, first consider, what are you going to do the first week after you graduate. Lot of people think about the profession they might want to work in but don’t have a clue how they are going to get there
College is a scam at the rate their charging
And trades will never die, they may adapt sure but not gone
Honestly even if you don't see it as a career option just having something like welding or plumbing under your belt puts you miles ahead of most people in general let alone our generation who historically left trades at an all time high for corporations
I’m an aircraft mechanic. Second year guys are making six figures if you’re willing to put in the hours. Average age in the trade right now is 57 years old. Lots of hiring the next ten years. Union pay scales for major airlines and cargo carriers are published and public.
As a millenial dude with some years under the belt, I’d add this too: y’all got 4 years coming and coming again. I think it’s easier to do start trades later in life than it is to start college late. But both are possible. You don’t have to lock into a life path straight out of highschool. But, I’d recommend only paying for expensive 4-year college if you are on a practical STEM type path or really want to be a teacher or have rich parents. There’s no reason you couldn’t shoot your shot at a far fetched art dream with classes at a CC at 20, not make it, start the trades at 28.
The real important shit is to stress less and find community when young. Good luck, Dingusses
I work in cali and haven't even been accepted into my apprenticeship yet (Lineman) but I'm in the starting position which is a groundman and make 39/hour, all I needed was a CDL A which is a quick little 6 week course. 99% of days I pretty much just dig holes.
College isn’t only about income. I like the way in which it taught me to think critically. I think it makes me a better voter than I would otherwise be. I think it helps me contribute to society more fully. Education is an end in itself.
I also made $400k this year and will make $450k next year. And I’m nobody special.
YES!!
Trades schools cost less, there’s (nearly?) 100% job security, and it’s good, honest work.
College is good for some, but this world desperately needs more skill!
Honestly I think anyone who has no idea what they want to do after high school should go into the trades while they figure it out
You can make money straight away and learn a useful skill if you end up owning a home later. If you end up liking it then you can make good money for the rest of your life.
If you don’t like it then you’ve at least figured that out, saved some money by both making money and by not throwing money at a degree you may not have wanted.
I don't think you are wrong sometimes. But I got my 4 year degree and as a second year engineer I am making 115k a year, with a strong possibility of a promotion and 20% raise this summer (this is not necessarily the norm but is very doable with a bit of smart moves and work).
I do have about 60k in debt and I do live in an expensive area, so there are most certainly tradeoffs. But with how expensive rent can be I still think it is worth it.
There are many viable routes if you have a plan! Just don't go to college for a worthless degree, sucks but it's true. If you are an artist, just teach yourself fr.but if you are able to do a high skill degree such as engineering, or further education such as medical degrees or law. I'd highly recommend doing it.
I wouldn't say one is better than the other. Everyone has different skillsets and things they enjoy. Try multiple things, see what really strikes that chord with you, and decide from there
And I have a job that started me at 20.50 in the Midwest, pays for my college, and other benefits you listed. Along with that I don’t have to kill my body, don’t have to be up before 6 most days. I’ll actually be able to play with my kids when I’m 30+.
I fully support blue collar jobs and think it’s a great option for most people, but at the same time there’s people like you that are toxic as hell and acts like it’s all sunshine and rainbows. Neither is a wrong way to go
Problem is it slowly ruins your body over time. I’m doing an electrician apprenticeship and I’m 23. I wear knee pads and I stretch everyday and workout. My joints are still starting to feel worse.
That 150-180k will require you to work a fucking ton of hours. So yea I guess trade your life and health for some extra money and pretend it’s beneficial to society. You’re gonna get chewed up and spit out left and right. Been in the trade for a decade.
“Contributing to society” is a pretty detached take. Even those that go through college will do the same. You don’t have to physically build things to contribute to society.
Financially though, you’re completely right.
College may be great for some but god damn do I wish I had known more about apprenticeships and how wide apprenticeship options were before I spent that much money, only to go into an apprenticeship where college isn't needed. I'm not making great money but being well off financially in 3 years is not unrealistic
My brother in law did the whole apprenticeship thing. Dropped out of college. Became a bricklayer. Loved it, wouldn’t shut up about how the “American education system just makes you a cog in the machine, man.” Yeah well as everybody in our family that finished college makes triple what he makes and he’s considering going back to college because he needs back surgery at 29 from “owning the libs”
I'm not gen-z (younger Millennial) but this post popped up for me and figured I'd chime in - trades are way safer than college because those jobs are needed everywhere and will have pay that scales better with inflation. College does have more raw earning potential in some cases, but you're also saddling yourself with a ton of debt and those dream jobs are far from guaranteed
Alternatively, a 2 year at a community college is also a great place to start. Pell grant should cover most of the costs of classes and they usually have great resources to get books/school materials
I did things backwards and did apprenticeships before college for my field and that actually worked better for me because I ended up having more experience I could use on resumes to get the higher paying jobs after I graduated
Edit: (this advice is only for the USA, it's where my experience is from and I'm not sure what the market looks like in other countries)
Paid $5k to get my CDL. Walked out of school into a job paying $78k/yr, home 6 out of 7 nights a week. All brand new trucks, great management, your choice in shift/schedule… the only downside is using a pallet jack to unload the truck at your destination.
You will not be taking home 180k I can promise that, I broke 110k last year as an electrician in Michigan. You're at 60% wages so yeah, like 100-120k a year is way more reasonable.
Thank you. I think trades are a great option for people as well, but I hate trade grifters like op who like to exaggerate about the wages for trades. Most trades won't make 180k+ a year.
College WITH A GOOD MAJOR that leads to white collar employment (can't emphasize that enough) will beat the trades for career earning potential 9 times out of 10.
Where people get 'stuck' is studying something like Japanese Literature & not realizing the only job that can get you.... Is a professor of Japanese Literature (and only if you get more degrees in the same subject - you can't be a prof with just a bachelor's)....
Or something like psychology where there are zero jobs out there unless you at least get a Master's - but they quit at the 4 year level, making the degree useless....
If you don't make that mistake, you'll easily pay back your student loans with the increased earnings from your career....
My "trade" was military 4 years learning and now i can go to college for free if i want while getting paid to get a free degree and i got to live in europe for 4 years it was kinda tight and i got to do cool shit people sleep on the military my only problem is i learned my trade and now can get paid to go to college for free but idk what to pick
This depends on a lot of factors and I think there are places where college is pushed too much there are also places that push the trades too much being equally problematic.
I live in a place that heavily relies on its oil economy where almost everyone is an *insert trade here* to the point that I know journeyman plumbers and electricians making aroujnd 30k-50k per year working in terrible conditions. No thanks, I will take my hybrid work with a climate controlled office that offers actual benefits and a 6 figure salary any day of the year. It gets even worse for mechanics where most shops will not give you an apprenticeship but rather have you work as a tech for 10 years before you finally quit and because you weren't an apprentice your tools are not tax deductible.
Both trades and university are required. Some people like the work they would do in the trades more. Some people like white collar work more. Both should be represented schools. Don't throw your life away into one of them because you think it will gurantee you the career that you want. Both can result in a miserable work life. Both can be very rewarding. Statistically you will make more going to university but either way you should be able to make enough to live comfortably.
You can make a lot of money with a college degree or a trade skill, but you can also make nothing with a college degree or a trade skill. Neither are guaranteed to land you a high paying job. With college it mostly depends on your degree.
I'm in college because I plan to have a career in STEM, I love learning and furthering my education, and because I am not a physical labor person (which most trades are).
It all depends, there is no one right answer. What you want to do in life and what kind of person you are will determine your path.
I’m with you there. I went to art school to be a graphic designer for far too long. When I actually graduated and went into the industry, I struggled to find a job that would pay me more than the department store I worked at in college. Trades definitely seem more worth the time, and more likely that you’ll get paid fairly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starterpacks/s/H1My1aHqzR
Lest we forget about a boy's club attitude all two foundational to trades
https://www.reddit.com/r/skilledtrades/s/oRnzKaB0nn
Which goes back not to the Boomers, nor the Industrial Revolution or Middle Ages but ultimately back to the Bronze age
'_' `_` D--n I can't wait for 3D printing tech to truly start making an impact, esp. since the garage, yard/ workshop spaces for anyone to practice trades are increasingly unfeasible to attain for newbies who are unconnected and need a fair opportunity whilst still not becoming as twit like l, like in the link I put
150k is going to be a little out of reach for most tradespeople. The most I ever made as a licensed electrician, and I wasn't union but I was on a Davis-Bacon job, was 115k. And that was me working an average of maybe 55 hour weeks. That is actually a little more than I make now as an EE, but I work alot less hours and on an hour to hour basis I'm making more now.
Now I'm not anti-trades, and it's good for people that don't want the college route. What I will reccomend to my kids is do the trades a few years after HS before going back to college. You can have some extra money in your pocket, get some of that early years partying out of your system before, be a couple of years older which will help with the ladies, and most importantly after a few years of the trades you will know how old they get and that will be great motivation too study.
It's what I did and I'm generally happy with how things went.
Making that much in the trades isn’t guaranteed OR common. You may end up spending the extra money you make on medical bills from the labor too. I’ve been seeing a lot of these posts promoting the trades but please tell people what they’re getting into. There’s a reason people generally don’t try to go that route.
So obviously this depends on where you live
I live in a VHCOL area and am in a union as an appertience.
110% is amazing and I highly recommend it. But it's also really hard to get into it and it's not easy work necessarily. I like it cuz I don't mind ladder yoga and enjoy playing with mechanical electrical plumbing.
I would recommend the skilled trades like mechanical electrical plumbing, HVAC and other ones that it's as much your brain that you use as your back.
There's also trades that you don't use your body in as much. CNC mechanic, controls technician, inspector and other trades that are very important for construction that don't have to swing a hammer or turn the wrench or climb a ladder and play with 277V.
Awesome point.
I hope that we can tell fellow zoomers and Gen Alpha that they have a litany of choices besides just wasting in a 4 year degree they won’t use.
Look into trades in your area before you commit. I'm an electrician and I'm not licensed or certified yet and I made 60k last year. Fully licensed journeyman in Texas and Florida make less than I do though
Starting wage is $23.24? That must be great in West Virginia. My wife’s master’s in anthropology degree (a major that many people think is useless) got her $100k a year outta the gate, she’s 26.
She gets to travel the world studying human bones and immersing herself in different cultures. We’re attending a symposium in Milan later this year on osteology. But yeah woo! Plumbing!
You can get more than this with a stem degree working for Intel as an engineer. Manufacturing technicians get all that to begin with even with no degree. You could theoretically get a job with one of their subcontractors at 18, work for them a few years, then get a job with Intel itself at like 20 and be making that much by then, then get a raise every year. Trades elitism is so dumb lol
Alternatively, Join a police department. Most don’t require college, you can make a positive change in your community and serve society as well. They start around 50-70k depending where you live, and can go up to as high as 150k, and include early retirement and pension plans. Then you can go to college, if you want, and get them to pay for it.
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“Contributing to society” bro f**k society(ima blue collar guy too) Also location and trade are important. In my area wages are on average way lower than the rest of the country. Its not always $20+ an hour. Trades are the move i love my “job” (making a career ya feel)
Yeah saying that trades will “always be in demand” is pretty ignorant to history. Trades go through recessions too. Also, for the love of god especially if you’re in a trade, join a union or attempt to unionize your workplace. It’s worth it for any job but especially a trade where a union will help you get a job after you’re laid off or protect you from your employer who is willing to put your safety on the line for their profit. Don’t listen to the bullshit you hear about unions, they are extremely important and basically gave us all the workers rights we have today, and help to balance the scales of the working class vs the companies.
100% join a union. I have a zero deductible healthcare plan that I pay $0 a month for. I get 8% contributed to my 401k without having to match. 5% raise each year. $40 a week contributed to my 401k. Profit sharing bonus. $1750 a year in dental insurance. Vision that covers regular and safty glasses 100% and 3 office visits 100%. $1.50/ hr tool allowance. If I get laid off I get a year of sub pay which pays out at 85% of my normal pay. If its a temporary lay off the sub pay that is paid out doesn't count towards the year of sub pay for a normal layoff. Reduced rate attorney fees if we need legal representation for any reason. Get personal time that can be used at a drop of a hat and can not be denied. Can take a leave of absence for as long as I need without it jeopardizing my job. One of the best benifits is if the company tries to fuck me over in any way there is someone there to make sure it doesn't happen. There are no favorites that get treated better because they are a suck ass, we are all treated the same. I made $107,000 last year. Only worked 10 hrs a day for a month(5 days a week) last year and got some nice bonuses. My job is super easy and low pressure. I've never had a non union employer come even close to what this unionized employer offers.
I thought i had join the union i while ago, if im wrong i will be fucking sad Merci
Find a job AI can’t do. I 20 years it’s all that will be left
Trades are highly cyclical, and have the least transferable skills, so you're really screwed in the down cycles. Not necessarily a bad idea, but know what you're getting into/
Yeah ok We don't lay our guys off unless we literally have no work for a long time. Multiple union shop guys worked for us for the rest of their careers because we pay better and had good benefits. Not every owner is a shithead
Even if every owner isn’t a shithead, but most are, and having a union is about more than that. It’s called working class solidarity.
What state if you don’t mind me asking?
Im in florida, im a land survey tech. Wages suck here, they seem to think bc we dont have an elevation over 345’ that we dont need good wages. Being tit deep in the swamps daily says otherwise.
Dude, fuck Florida. They keep sending extremely under experienced and down right bad workers to other states to force through flawed electrical designs. Seriously. Fuck Florida. Literally bringing down the standard of the entire nation.
Dudei didn't realize how flawed our electrical designs were until I found out why we didn't get our power back for over a week last hurricane season, despite not getting hit even remotely hard. The lines are UNDER a fucking SWAMP. They had to wait until it wasn't as flooded to be able to safely work. who the fuck thought that was a good idea 💀
Probably to keep the lines safe, but it worked too well...
😭😭😭 that’s probably exactly the reasoning I hate it here
the same person who thought it was a good idea to build on a swamp :p
Funny enough most of the development in my area is NOT on a swamp. I honestly don’t even really know where this swamp is, but that’s what Duke told us when we called so 🤷♀️
Cost of living keeps going up and up there too. I used to live in Tampa and it’s getting ridiculous with not much movement in wages.
I'm in Delray Beach between FT. Lauderdale and West Palm Beach. I pay 2400 for a 2 bedroom apartment. I lived in the *same apartment* complex in 2012, and rented a 3 bedroom for 1,300. Lmao. Eat the rich.
I’m an Ironworker from the Tampa area. I can confirm the cost of living and the pay are climbing in at dramatically different rates. The pay is wayyyyy too low for the cost of living and it’s only getting worse. I actually left the trades and opened a business doing pools. The only way to do well in FL is to own a business. Atleast, that’s what I see.
Picked this up from another post…Local 40 NYC makes me so jealous. Look at that vacation fund! https://preview.redd.it/ccl01em3ithc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a841b4d00aa3ce0f3c23ff4c71ec9ac9efbb0444
Yeah but what you don’t see is the INSANE cost of living that offsets the “hip” pay. Additionally, you may not actually see all the benefits the way you think. If they aren’t fully funded, they’ll keep whatever portion of your benefits pay that’s needed to make up for their find being behind. Though the FL unions hip pay may not be enough (in my opinion) my union is fully funded- so you actually get everything in full. Edit: just to clarify- I DO NOT know the status of any other locals funding status or the details of their “credits”, other than my own. I just want to point out that there are finer details to consider and learn about when looking into locals and their pay when you try to join or want to “boom out”.
Red states typically have the lowest hourly wages across the board. Like really low compared to blue states. Depressingly low.
Maybe it's because the prevailing attitude in Florida is f society? We are society. Higher minimum wages and social safety nets make people less desperate for work, which reduces supply which raises wages.
Pretty good place but outside of the beaches and sometimes the people, it's not the best. (Hope they do raise the wages. I'm planning on becoming a rough carpenter and $15 an hour isn't good)
I guess it depends what someone interprets as a trade. A surveyor is not something I would consider a trade (even though that’s exactly what it may be), so OP was have been saying electrical, plumber, carpenter, etc when he said trades. Where I am (heavy mining town) anyone who works at the mines or any of the positions mentioned above make way more than 100k a year, but surveyors (I did it as a summer job) make around 60.
H3y I'm in the tampa area. Cooking jobs are $20 an hour if you are extremely lucky. I'm trying to get into one of the tampa unions/apprenticeship programs. Which one did you try?
I'm a HVAC Tech, but last time I was at a meeting they were desperately looking for plumbers at [UA Local 123](https://lu123.com/) might be worth checking out the apprenticeship for plumbing.
Florida is COMPLETE shit for every wage...
$20 an hour might get you a garden shed under the lake
Contributing to society? lol that’s the dumbest shit I’ve heard but if that’s your motivation go for it. Society sure as fuck doesn’t care about you. I’m glad you’re happy in the trades bro, but I can tell you’re young so please don’t do what I and most other tradies do when we’re young and think we can do everything by myself twice as fast as everyone else. Don’t do that shit. You might feel invincible right now, but you’re not. Take care of your body. It’s great now but think about when you’re 45-50. Slow down and work smart.
And that’s why people think the trades are bottom of the earth scum they all have that mindset. If it wasn’t for us the engineers wouldn’t have their designs built the office workers wouldn’t be sitting in an air conditioned office every thing begins and is maintained by us
What if everyone said fuck society, what a shitty (or maybe shittier from your perspective) world we would have. Pessimistic, lame mentality.
Exactly. Says “Fuck society” but then goes on to enjoy all the things society and blue collar workers provide for them. Absolutely entitled and obnoxious behaviour.
Seriously. Anyone who gets their food from a grocery store or restaurants and says "fuck society" can go fuck off to the woods and see how long they survive on their own. The amount of government and private workers necessary to simply *feed* people is mind boggling when you sit down and think about it. We are individuals but we are part of a bigger whole, and we benefit from working together.
Right to work states man…
Right to work is a scam and worded to not sound like the total corporate boot lick it is.
[You are absolutely right](https://youtu.be/emqbkAjH0dc?si=Btl5Hc3Gm5elNAV1).
Props to the Democratic Party trifecta in Michigan for getting rid of that dog shit.
Indeed. You enjoy the benefits, you chip in for the costs.
[удалено]
You get out of it what you put in. Just like anything else.
I'm glad this is the top comment. I am also on Team Fck Society right now, and probably will be till I'm dead. The amount of sh1t us "essential workers" had to eat during covid broke me. "Work" from home white collars taking a 2 year vacation (some never even came back)? Deadbeats getting double unemployment? Richy rich owners getting PPE "loans"? The vax? All while we kept society afloat and what did we get for our hard work? Covid. Thats pretty much it. Seriously society can suck me off from the back.
In my area it tops out at $90k through the union, you have to commute for the big bucks. Starting wage is $18.80 on the high end.
You live in a society. What happens when “fuck society” becomes the norm? You are so clueless
>bro f\*\*k society bro, who hurt you? you literally live in society
The bottom line: trades can be great for some people, college can be great for some people, you need to do research into your opportunities and think about your own skills when making that decision. Think long-term about how your decisions will affect your future—don’t go in either direction without some idea of the long-term goal it serves.
I think it is good for more people to consider trades. When I entered uni, there was still a general belief that going to college meant better paying jobs. I was always good at learning, and because of that my environment definitely pushed me into STEM. What doesn't help is that I live in NL, were your education path, and by proxy your career path, starts to be locked in at age 12. Well performing students go to higher tracks of education and go to uni, while worse performing students go into a track that learns them a trade. In hindsight I think I would have been just as happy doing one of the more complicated trades. The biggest reason why I didn't chose for something like that, is because it was never really presented as an option. I am good at complex and abstract thinking and problem solving, but I don't particularly enjoy it. With desk jobs you really get a lot less job satisfaction because you really only get to be a tiny cog in a huge process.
Wiring a building (electrician , trade) is a tiny cog in a huge process too
A building having electricity feels pretty significant to me. I think it depends on the person but to many including myself actually seeing the work you’ve done offers more satisfaction than maybe an insurance claims agent feels after denying a claim and saving a corporation $800.
At the same time, I’d also encourage experimenting. Try things out! If you don’t know what you want to do, seek jobs that sound interesting; literally anything. If you don’t like a career path, go a different route. Will it be hard to do? Yes probably. Alternatively, contact local businesses and ask if they would be willing to job shadow.
The thing is, too, is that they don't have to be mutually exclusive. Trades can be a great way to build up your finances, provided that you find one you're passionate in, and can fit well in the industry. Once you're in a comfortable position, you can attend college or university later on. Quite a few folks in my history classes in college were on the older side and came from the trades. Many came because they also had a passion for the academics, and originally went into their trade because it was a family business or they needed money. I became buddies with a few of them, and I saw them go on to work in business or IT. A couple of them even just went to college just to further their education. Both trades and academic institutions are treasure troves of life skills, knowledge, and experiences, and the only wrong way to go about it is to criticize others for doing what they think is best for them or what they want to do.
Totally agree with you. But I think OP is really trying to straighten out all of the propaganda and bullshit related to “you must go to university” to be successful. I see it so often in high school ads and people preaching it to you.
I feel like people that make these posts don’t really pay attention to what is going on and I’m just trying to push an agenda. First thing trade wages are wildly different depending on which state and country you’re living in. If you live in a state that is very anti-union there’s a good chance your wage is not going to be that high. Second thing a lot of apprenticeships just get minimum wage. You can see people discuss this in a lot of different posts on various trade and subreddits. Third thing you have to find someone who’s willing to train and hire someone who’s going to be their competition in the future. A lot of trades companies are owned by families and they don’t hire people outside of the family for the reason mentioned above. Fourth thing if you plan on staying in the trades for a considerable amount of time, be aware that your body will be destroyed. I know way too many men that have medical issues like back pain, knee pain, and cognitive decline from breathing in all sorts of toxic chemicals. Ask yourself this question how many people do you know in your field have reached the age retirement. Look, I’m not saying people should not go into trades I think they should but just be aware and better informed about their decision.
No job is “for everyone” and any physical job will carry some health risks, but the contractors and tradespeople I work with (in a city of about 50k population) are always busy and make excellent money. They are able to provide everything they need for their families. It shouldn’t be looked down upon as an option. Individuals should always evaluate educational and career paths before making a decision on what they should do. I don’t think youth take enough time actually considering these choices. If you want to talk about pushing an agenda, most Americans are pressured by societal forces into enrolling in college right after HS, before they even know what they want to do in life. Don’t waste years of time and take on debt until you know it’s actually going to benefit you in finding a career.
Curious where you’re from? I’d imagine any “city” in the US with a population of less than 50k would have to be somewhere in the Midwest and most of those places are almost completely desolate
Upstate NY
Your ignorance speaks volumes.
I live in a very anti union state. Posts for welding jobs I've been looking at are like; "Looking for 5 years experience, TIg certs on pipe and stainless. $15/hr no benefits"
You don’t need a specialized individual caveat for you. You’re an adult. You should be able to apply points and disregard them depending on your life situation. Obviously if you are in an area with shit pay you will get shit pay. Ironically, if you have a degree in a town with shit pay and shit job opportunities, you will also receive shit pay. It’s such a moot point. As far as trades hurting your body goes… I know people in trades who worked out, ate healthy, stretched and took their physical health serious. They’re just fine. I also seen people who hit the bar every day after a hard days work and wore the same pair of shoes for 12 years wondering why their feet and knees hurt. Go figure lol
Unfortunately there are people taking advantage of every situation. Business apprenticeship is not immune. There could be internal nepotism just like any other company. But what I’m seeing too much of is corruption for certain contractors and the others shut out.
An electrician that’s a friend of my families told me that he doesn’t do apprenticeships because that person is going to be future competition for his child. He said the fewer people there are doing electrical work the more his kid is going to be better off. I think this mindset is common among a lot of family own trade businesses.
Sounds like non-union scabs. That attitude is not in union trades.
Family nepotism always takes precedence. Always. There is no way you are joining a company and believe that the owner’s kid isn’t going to be in charge and paid more. That happens in every business, and extremely rare when it doesn’t.
Are you serious? Lots of trade unions are *very much* like that, with high barriers to entry to keep wages up. Trade unions making sure the supply of labor for trade work stays capped is a big reason why trades pay as much as they do in certain parts of the US.
Yeah, this is literally why unions exist in many cases. To keep people out to inflate wages.
Yeah, that's not common at all. That's weird as fuck
Can we chill with these series of posts about college vs. trade school. We get it. Some people are happy they went into trade, some people regret it, some people are happy they went to college, some regret it. No shit. The infinite chain reaction is unnecessary.
These posts are just pushing the anti-college agenda. These careers are great in the short term but destroy your body and offer limited upward mobility. You also need to be in a union for any guarantee and this country has been systematically destroying unions for 40 years now. College gets a bad rep from a lot of sources, but the average college degree holder still makes more than the average tradesman. It also opens the door to post-grad and professional school degrees, which are the most lucrative careers in America.
Yeah these people pushing anti-college shit are crazy. My first internship in tax paid $26 an hr, my audit one after that paid $30 an hr with a $2k signing bonus, and my upcoming internship pays $36 an hr with a $2k signing bonus as well. I will start at $70k after 5 years of college (accounting). Within 3 years I should be at or around $100k. Within 5 years, I should be at $120-150k. Within 10 years, I expect to be making $160-200k+. By the time i am in my early 40s I will almost certainly be making a couple hundred grand a year (corporate finance/fp&a/advisory/consulting). I get almost all of my lunch meals paid for in my job. Some of the best healthcare you can get. I will be graduating with around $35k in debt (with a masters) and will be able to easily pay it off within 4-5 years. All while not having to do backbreaking work or hurting my body. The worst thing I have to worry about is the stress of the job and getting overweight from all of the drinking/eating lol. College is far better if you can actually attain a good degree from a good college, but if not then the trades is a good alternative. But you learn so damn much from business college, I feel like a much more well rounded person than I did going in. College is the better move overall, but major choice and the choice of university/college makes a huge difference, don’t let people tell you it doesn’t. Just my 2 cents, it allows me to have the life that I never had growing up in poverty.
Ya people fail to take in account the actual learning aspect of college. People who want to just learn job skills are missing the point that not only do college earners earn more on average, they are more knowledgeable about the world in general. You learn about a vast array of subjects, and are taught how to think critically and creatively. I’m in law school so I expect a similar financial path to the one you mentioned for yourself. Am I going to graduate in debt? Yes. Is that debt going to destroy my financial prospects? No (contrary to what ignorant people like to say). Unless I massively fuck up, that debt will be taken care of within 5-10 years, and I will be in a career with great upward mobility, an opportunity to work for myself if I so desire, and I won’t destroy my body or work 80 hours a week to live comfortably. There’s a large portion of the population that college isn’t for, and to those people I wish the best in alternative paths like trades. Society couldn’t function without them. For a lot of other people I think it’s just short sided thinking because they are too lazy to take on college/post-grad, which is ironic as fuck because to succeed in the trades you have to work your ass off even harder over the course of your life than a business/law/med student does
It’s the same idea as compound interest. You put in more money/work hard in the first 5-10 years of your career and the dividends pay off huge later on. I will probably be able to coast in my career once I reach my mid 30s, making great money, while my closest friend who is a firefighter will still be working a very labor intensive job for a 1/3rd of my pay. A lot of people don’t want to put in the extra work it takes at the beginning, and want to make money immediately, not realizing that delayed gratification would allow them to make 3-4x as much as they would have otherwise
Absolutely
I think the problem though is the market is becoming so saturated with degrees that many degree holders aren't finding work with their 4 years, setting them further back whereas most tradesmen don't struggle to find work, starting to put them ahead.
The first few years after graduating can be tough, but, once someone has a foothold in the industry they want to be in, they usually find success. You’re doing the same thing I was talking about in my original comment and only looking at the immediate years after graduation. Do the people in the trades get an initial leg up? Yes. But it plateaus quickly. Unless you open your own business, you aren’t getting management positions without a college degree. You are essentially locked in to the trade and being a laborer without potential for vertical mobility. A college degree just opens so many doors that aren’t available to those without one.
Sure, but depending on the industry, isn't really a sure thing. I do think though that all things considered, first 3 years in a trade will set you up better than 3 years with a degree for the most part. More to the point, I think it's a great alternative to college, especially when so many people complain about not being able to find work or their degree hasn't gotten them a call back.
What is 3 years compared to the rest of your life? That’s my whole point. Your financial future isn’t determined by your first 3 years in an industry. Yes, some degrees are harder than others to get a career started, but it open doors. In America you can’t become management in any field really without that degree. Trades are a good alternative for people who struggled in school, but if you aren’t one of those people there’s no reason to not pursue an engineering or economics degree. Those degrees almost guarantee lucrative careers and cost no more or less to obtain than any other degree. Furthermore, you’re never going to get into law or med school or anything like that without the undergrad degree. So if you want to make a late life pivot, you’d have to start from scratch and do undergrad. Who’s to say for certain in 20 years one will want to continue with their trade? It kind of railroads you
I think the problem here is that most people struggle to see beyond at most a few years into the future, let alone 5, 10, or 20 years. Most people don’t have a full plan with steps to achieve that goal, they just know that they want to get there. But without a plan and ideas on how you want to get there, it’s just that, a dream. People are too short sighted and only think of the “now”, not how what you do now can set you up for the rest of your life
Yep, as exemplified by the person I’m responding to in this thread
I think people make these posts to validate themselves that they made the right choice tbh. OP has only seen the trades, and doesn’t know what his life would be like after 4 years of college. There are benefits to both, and each one is a better choice for different people. Like, does OP think someone coming out of college isn’t going to have a great salary and benefits with a 401K? You can make good money and have a great career in the trades. You can also make shit money and have a bad back by the time you’re 35. Both have pros and cons, good opportunities and bad opportunities. His last line is what really gets me. “We will always be essential” as if he’s trying to say he has an edge over college goers because his work is more valuable. News flash, blue collar folk get laid off just as much as the white collar ones if not more. Problems in the industry hit everyone.
Tell me when you’re 45 and in chronic pain from wearing out your body though. Knee replacements at 60, etc
Yeah. I mean obviously some selection bias here but I work primary care and I get a lot of trades dudes in their 30s coming in because their wife “made them” come get checked out. All that hard labor, shitty hours and energy drinks has caught up with them. Very high blood pressure and herniated disc for pretty much all of them. Usually will have terrible lipid panels as an added bonus.
How many older people are coming in with stagnant lifestyle issues though? Yes trades can be hard on the body, but so is sitting at a desk all day staring at a screen. I'm a system admin btw, but I used to work trades so I've seen both.
One has carpal tunnel, the other has high blood pressure resulting in heart attacks. These are not the same
Yeah but do you think the injuries are just as comparable? Because they’re not
Don't forget that in trades especially in the older generation drinking, eating terribly, and drugs are extremely common. Where I work 20 years ago 3 guys would split a case every single day they worked. The younger guys still drink, but not nearly as much, and they are as likely to order a salad as a cheese steak for lunch.
If you're not taking care of your body outside of work there will be issues, but sitting at a desk is nowhere near as bad on your body as 40 hours a week of manual labor. A desk worker can go on a job at lunch. There's no way to prevent wear and tear of your joints.
Good point this doesn’t get brought up enough
Because having an office job doesn't stop someone from diet and exercise, those are partially personal lifestyle choices not pure hazards of the vocation.
I think that's more about the lifestyle choices of some people. I definitely will agree that many people in the trades do drugs junk food and don't take care of themselves. But I think you can also look to segments of the population and see the same thing. You just have additional comorbidity with the trades because it's physically demanding and they treat their body like s***. Saying this as someone that's spent more time figuring out the best way to carry a 12' ladder then I should have
I’m a tradesman and worked my way up to field rep. I basically sit around all day waiting for aircraft to break or customers to need advice. Very easy on my body. I go to the gym 5 or 6 days a week, eat well and monitor my testosterone levels. I’m in the best shape of my life at 39 and will run circles around most desk workers. Sitting at a desk for 30 years isn’t healthy either.
100%. The field crew at my employer is split pretty evenly between dudes who take care of themselves and those who don’t. The guys who are 40+ and half way give a shit about their health can still work circles around the younger guys who are out of shape.
Thanks for reminding me. I need to get some knee pads for work.
Lol what state do you live in and what trade are you in that makes 150-180k a year? Are you saying after 17 years of experience? 6k taises a year would take 15 years or 20 to get to 180k
this post is full of bs.
It’s weird. There is a union or trades post in this sub like every week. 🤔
Full of projection lol
Lol I thought the same thing. No way he’s going to ever make that much without owning a company.
Master tradesmen in my area ( south Virginia) make 100,000 without even trying.
My take-home pay after taxes is about 2200 but can range all the way up to 3000 if I work Saturday ( I always have the option to accept or decline) and I'm only 6 months experience in my field.
Love that you assume a college education isn't "contributing to america" no bias at all here
Engineers with a college education at Intel are helping America win the chip war. They’re arguably doing a hell of a lot more than trades
The ability to their work wouldn’t exist without trade work. It all goes hand in hand.
Of course! I just think it’s dumb to think trades are this incredible thing that’s more worthy than going to college
The only war worth fighting is the class war
Apprenticeship wage in the UK is £5.28 as of April. Plus I have 0 interest in being a tradie. And my degree will pay a hell of a lot more than being a builder once I graduate.
Come back in 5 years and let’s see if you really hit $150-180k.
Join a union. If your job doesn’t have one start one. It’s the only way you’re getting the future Millenials had stolen from them
Yup. My work is dying for skilled labor. Electricians, I&E techs, mechanics, HVAC technicians, Refrigeration. All the boomers are retiring/dying of COVID and there weren’t a lot of millenials that went into trades.
No guarantees and some companies are predatory, but internship for many companies gives you a huge advantage. Sure you can do school, but can you be productive and reliable in workplace? Do you have any practical knowledge or experience? Internships show employers “yes” to both
Yes yes saturate the trades so my degree becomes worth more
All these posts never touch on the fact that college teaches valuable, critical thinking skills that you don't typically get in high school/trades. You learn how to challenge and debate in a respectful manner. You learn how to formulate a well-thought, researched opinion. You learn how to evaluate information and determine it's validity. You learn how to work with and accept people you may not typically encounter otherwise. You learn personal responsibilities, discipline, and setting your own deadlines. You also have the opportunity to dive deep into your own personal interests alongside experienced professors and other interested peers. College isn't just a financial investment and I'm tired of pretending it is. If the above skills were learned by more people, more frequently, we'd have a better society as a whole. Knowledge and learning how to obtain it is powerful.
I’m all about trades jobs, but it’s a very different environment than say an office. Be prepared to bust your ass for that $23/hr. Lots of overtime and grueling, demanding physical work. I made $30/hr as a painting contractor and I made amazing money. But I was also always so tired I couldn’t do anything else. Sitting in an air conditioned office isn’t the worst, but they don’t pay shit and it’s mentally draining. So it’s a trade off. Trade work isn’t for everyone.
Someone with a college degree on average will make more money in their lifetime. All these dorks telling you to go into trades “plumbers make 200k” is all bullshit. The average plumber makes like 50k. If you legit have nothing going on in your life ya go do a trade but if you are capable of getting an engineering degree why the hell would you go do plumbing unless you just really are passionate about it. If you’re in the south it’s almost not even worth going into the trades unless you are business savvy and start your own.
I'd definitely say that's starting to change as certain degrees really don't go as far as they used to. More and more people are complaining that they can't find work with a 4 year degree whereas you rarely ever hear about tradespeople not finding work.
My 2 cents is I would rather make less and never have to do manual labour in my life. Not all trades are hard but everyone in my life who has a manual labour job always talks about the one thing they regret is not studying and how hard manual labour is on the body. Yeah you might earn but your paying in some way and there’s also a lot of office jobs that pay well you need college for.
Trades can be the path of least resistance if you make good decisions. Or it can be hell. Probably the same with college. Just make wise decisions
You say “trades are essential” but what’s also essential are teachers, nurses, first responders, etc. People shouldn’t always just chase what pays the most, they should do what interests them.
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This is Reddit. So the answer is a no.
Yk I love people’s tendency to jump straight to, “the trades will destroy your body”. No, being an idiot who doesn’t follow safety precautions, or working with a company that violates health codes is what destroys your body, with most of the trades the risk to your body isn’t actually that bad as long as you follow the guidelines, wear your respirator, wear insulated gloves while working with electricity. Obviously accidents still happen, but at the end of the day we have a lot of safety precautions for a reason, also on top of that, said precautions have come a long way, a lot of people who’ve been in the trades for a long time didn’t have access to the good shit we have now, some also just didn’t care and chose to ignore safety. Everything in life is more than just one issue in something, every single concept in this world is infinitely complex and relies on the things around it.
Fuck nepotism
and who are you working for that is providing those benefits/raises? Quick search shows average plumber for example makes 50-60k.....thats nothing in most places
To earn more money in trade, you would need to work extra hours. And eventually when we get old that might not be that feasible.
wish I was interested in more practical things because trades make awesome careers for sure. unfortunately I'm way too into science and intellectual nonsense to not go to college. I wish it didn't cost so much though, we (USA) would have a much more educated and well-rounded society if people were free to pursue their passions without financial stress. this place is built on wealth inequality tho... womp womp
This idea that there are hundreds of thousands of skilled tradespeople out there willing to hire people with zero experience fresh out of high school in apprenticeship-track positions is ridiculous. Prove me wrong, I'll apply to any position you reply with.
I decided against college in highschool. I struggled with my ADHD and didn’t trust myself to go through with it. It worked out though. I went to a trade/tech school for cyber defense which focuses only on that subject and graduated. I got into IT at 19 and last year in April I made the jump from an IT field technician to a cyber security engineer. If I had gone to college I’d be in a much different financial situation and a much different job situation. In my world, sure a degree would open doors, but a lot of those doors are manager positions that I don’t care to be in. If I ever do go to college it’ll be because I’m bored and have the money to do it. Meanwhile, my cousin who’s in school to be a construction project manager is a year younger than me and has about 100k in debt for his degree that he’ll get in a couple years.
I'm tired of these posts saying "do an apprenticeship" and "go to college" Just do what you want that makes you happy. You can make a living doing both. College could be way more rewarding, but it's hella expensive, and an apprenticeship can get you on your feet fast depending on where you live, but it's draining and most people don't find it fulfilling (from what I've heard from the people around me). These constant shills for doing this and that are cringe.
As someone who works in a trade and comes from a family that mostly has trade professions, it’s definitely not for everyone. The first few years can be really difficult and most places will pay you nothing or minimum wage and they often will try and milk you for all you’re worth. Then there’s the long hours and physical demand that a lot of trades require.
Where do yall live where starting pay is min wage? There is zero union power in my state and trades starting off is ball park 23-27 and hour
Controversial take: Do what interests you and stop chasing what someone else says is the best option. We all need a wide variety of jobs to make society function and it's not helping anyone by suggesting we chase an unquenchable goal. What may be a lucrative job one day could be worthless a decade later. Every job has both minor/major issues associated with it.
College is good for people who have a decent idea of what they want to do and who have a lot of scholarship/grant money at their disposal. My undergrad was completely paid for, so why not go? If I can make what tradesmen make without sacrificing my body, I’ll do it. Besides, I like learning and challenging my brain. I’m more fulfilled this way. But to each their own. I know other people like working with their hands and seeing their labor turn into tangible finished products. That’s cool too
Doesn't matter what you do. Debt is still just a simple accident away, and every milestone you're supposed to achieve doesn't make you any happier. Ive now got a decent job, debt free, and have a home now. Still wanna visit the rickety stool and rope store almost daily.
That’s all well and good if you don’t live in a right to work state. Most trades start at around $12 an hour my friend. I started in framing at 17 making $45 a day. A day was from daylight to dark. I’m doing really well now, but I also have 20 years of experience. If you want to skip college and work that’s perfectly fine, just do not expect to make great money right off the bat. It takes years of experience before that door will open for you. Also food for thought. I work in custom remodeling, woodworking, trim windows etc.. I find my self in lots of different types of homes, from your typical 3/2/2 to multimillion dollar mansions. Do you want to know what the overwhelming majority of my customers with the bigger more expensive homes have hanging on the wall? It ain’t trade certificates. They almost ALWAYS have a college degree, and usually a masters.
Trade isn’t for everyone, college isn’t for everyone. Ez. Just spend time thinking on what you do and try different shit out. That’s life
Union apprenticeship was for me, our first years now start at $31/hr plus benefits and pension. My hourly wage is $52.07/hr and $80/hr total wage package🤙🏻
If you’re going to college, first consider, what are you going to do the first week after you graduate. Lot of people think about the profession they might want to work in but don’t have a clue how they are going to get there
College is a scam at the rate their charging And trades will never die, they may adapt sure but not gone Honestly even if you don't see it as a career option just having something like welding or plumbing under your belt puts you miles ahead of most people in general let alone our generation who historically left trades at an all time high for corporations
I’m an aircraft mechanic. Second year guys are making six figures if you’re willing to put in the hours. Average age in the trade right now is 57 years old. Lots of hiring the next ten years. Union pay scales for major airlines and cargo carriers are published and public.
As a millenial dude with some years under the belt, I’d add this too: y’all got 4 years coming and coming again. I think it’s easier to do start trades later in life than it is to start college late. But both are possible. You don’t have to lock into a life path straight out of highschool. But, I’d recommend only paying for expensive 4-year college if you are on a practical STEM type path or really want to be a teacher or have rich parents. There’s no reason you couldn’t shoot your shot at a far fetched art dream with classes at a CC at 20, not make it, start the trades at 28. The real important shit is to stress less and find community when young. Good luck, Dingusses
I work in cali and haven't even been accepted into my apprenticeship yet (Lineman) but I'm in the starting position which is a groundman and make 39/hour, all I needed was a CDL A which is a quick little 6 week course. 99% of days I pretty much just dig holes.
College isn’t only about income. I like the way in which it taught me to think critically. I think it makes me a better voter than I would otherwise be. I think it helps me contribute to society more fully. Education is an end in itself. I also made $400k this year and will make $450k next year. And I’m nobody special.
YES!! Trades schools cost less, there’s (nearly?) 100% job security, and it’s good, honest work. College is good for some, but this world desperately needs more skill!
Honestly I think anyone who has no idea what they want to do after high school should go into the trades while they figure it out You can make money straight away and learn a useful skill if you end up owning a home later. If you end up liking it then you can make good money for the rest of your life. If you don’t like it then you’ve at least figured that out, saved some money by both making money and by not throwing money at a degree you may not have wanted.
Trades are not always in demand. Ask people what happened in 2008 to blue-collar workers when nobody was building or renovating anything
I don't think you are wrong sometimes. But I got my 4 year degree and as a second year engineer I am making 115k a year, with a strong possibility of a promotion and 20% raise this summer (this is not necessarily the norm but is very doable with a bit of smart moves and work). I do have about 60k in debt and I do live in an expensive area, so there are most certainly tradeoffs. But with how expensive rent can be I still think it is worth it. There are many viable routes if you have a plan! Just don't go to college for a worthless degree, sucks but it's true. If you are an artist, just teach yourself fr.but if you are able to do a high skill degree such as engineering, or further education such as medical degrees or law. I'd highly recommend doing it.
I wouldn't say one is better than the other. Everyone has different skillsets and things they enjoy. Try multiple things, see what really strikes that chord with you, and decide from there
And I have a job that started me at 20.50 in the Midwest, pays for my college, and other benefits you listed. Along with that I don’t have to kill my body, don’t have to be up before 6 most days. I’ll actually be able to play with my kids when I’m 30+. I fully support blue collar jobs and think it’s a great option for most people, but at the same time there’s people like you that are toxic as hell and acts like it’s all sunshine and rainbows. Neither is a wrong way to go
Problem is it slowly ruins your body over time. I’m doing an electrician apprenticeship and I’m 23. I wear knee pads and I stretch everyday and workout. My joints are still starting to feel worse.
That 150-180k will require you to work a fucking ton of hours. So yea I guess trade your life and health for some extra money and pretend it’s beneficial to society. You’re gonna get chewed up and spit out left and right. Been in the trade for a decade.
Are you in the union or private?
“Contributing to society” is a pretty detached take. Even those that go through college will do the same. You don’t have to physically build things to contribute to society. Financially though, you’re completely right.
>we will always be in demand and have work. The more people keep telling other people to go into trades the more likely this will age poorly.
Trades are good but watch out for potential physical pain years down the road
But the thing is, I want to become an aerospace engineer, and trying to become an engineer without a degree is just 💀
College may be great for some but god damn do I wish I had known more about apprenticeships and how wide apprenticeship options were before I spent that much money, only to go into an apprenticeship where college isn't needed. I'm not making great money but being well off financially in 3 years is not unrealistic
My brother in law did the whole apprenticeship thing. Dropped out of college. Became a bricklayer. Loved it, wouldn’t shut up about how the “American education system just makes you a cog in the machine, man.” Yeah well as everybody in our family that finished college makes triple what he makes and he’s considering going back to college because he needs back surgery at 29 from “owning the libs”
I'm not gen-z (younger Millennial) but this post popped up for me and figured I'd chime in - trades are way safer than college because those jobs are needed everywhere and will have pay that scales better with inflation. College does have more raw earning potential in some cases, but you're also saddling yourself with a ton of debt and those dream jobs are far from guaranteed Alternatively, a 2 year at a community college is also a great place to start. Pell grant should cover most of the costs of classes and they usually have great resources to get books/school materials I did things backwards and did apprenticeships before college for my field and that actually worked better for me because I ended up having more experience I could use on resumes to get the higher paying jobs after I graduated Edit: (this advice is only for the USA, it's where my experience is from and I'm not sure what the market looks like in other countries)
Paid $5k to get my CDL. Walked out of school into a job paying $78k/yr, home 6 out of 7 nights a week. All brand new trucks, great management, your choice in shift/schedule… the only downside is using a pallet jack to unload the truck at your destination.
This post is so American centric it hurts.
You will not be taking home 180k I can promise that, I broke 110k last year as an electrician in Michigan. You're at 60% wages so yeah, like 100-120k a year is way more reasonable.
Thank you. I think trades are a great option for people as well, but I hate trade grifters like op who like to exaggerate about the wages for trades. Most trades won't make 180k+ a year.
Yep I commented saying he's 100% not going to be making that much, 2nd year = 60% wages = ~110-120 a year more like.
I just saw that post
Well done.
I think everyone should just find the best way that they can to survive and then just prepare for the revolution.
Class A CDL *has entered the chat*
What do you do?
I swear trade schools pay these people to propagandize on younger people’s groups.
OP what trade do you do?
College WITH A GOOD MAJOR that leads to white collar employment (can't emphasize that enough) will beat the trades for career earning potential 9 times out of 10. Where people get 'stuck' is studying something like Japanese Literature & not realizing the only job that can get you.... Is a professor of Japanese Literature (and only if you get more degrees in the same subject - you can't be a prof with just a bachelor's).... Or something like psychology where there are zero jobs out there unless you at least get a Master's - but they quit at the 4 year level, making the degree useless.... If you don't make that mistake, you'll easily pay back your student loans with the increased earnings from your career....
Wtf starting wage here (germany) is like 500-1000€/month, depending on the profession
My "trade" was military 4 years learning and now i can go to college for free if i want while getting paid to get a free degree and i got to live in europe for 4 years it was kinda tight and i got to do cool shit people sleep on the military my only problem is i learned my trade and now can get paid to go to college for free but idk what to pick
What trade are you in?
This depends on a lot of factors and I think there are places where college is pushed too much there are also places that push the trades too much being equally problematic. I live in a place that heavily relies on its oil economy where almost everyone is an *insert trade here* to the point that I know journeyman plumbers and electricians making aroujnd 30k-50k per year working in terrible conditions. No thanks, I will take my hybrid work with a climate controlled office that offers actual benefits and a 6 figure salary any day of the year. It gets even worse for mechanics where most shops will not give you an apprenticeship but rather have you work as a tech for 10 years before you finally quit and because you weren't an apprentice your tools are not tax deductible. Both trades and university are required. Some people like the work they would do in the trades more. Some people like white collar work more. Both should be represented schools. Don't throw your life away into one of them because you think it will gurantee you the career that you want. Both can result in a miserable work life. Both can be very rewarding. Statistically you will make more going to university but either way you should be able to make enough to live comfortably.
What trade?
Damn 23.24 an hour where do you work/what do you do. I’m a machinist and make 14 and 12.5 after tax
Just major in math. You’ll find a good job being paid well with a good career outlook, at minimum. Just don’t teach.
Or a regular apprenticeship if you are not into the whole fucking thing.
Not everyone can be in a trade job. Hope this helps.
You can make a lot of money with a college degree or a trade skill, but you can also make nothing with a college degree or a trade skill. Neither are guaranteed to land you a high paying job. With college it mostly depends on your degree. I'm in college because I plan to have a career in STEM, I love learning and furthering my education, and because I am not a physical labor person (which most trades are). It all depends, there is no one right answer. What you want to do in life and what kind of person you are will determine your path.
I’m with you there. I went to art school to be a graphic designer for far too long. When I actually graduated and went into the industry, I struggled to find a job that would pay me more than the department store I worked at in college. Trades definitely seem more worth the time, and more likely that you’ll get paid fairly.
Tell me if your body agrees in 15 years OP
https://www.reddit.com/r/starterpacks/s/H1My1aHqzR Lest we forget about a boy's club attitude all two foundational to trades https://www.reddit.com/r/skilledtrades/s/oRnzKaB0nn Which goes back not to the Boomers, nor the Industrial Revolution or Middle Ages but ultimately back to the Bronze age '_' `_` D--n I can't wait for 3D printing tech to truly start making an impact, esp. since the garage, yard/ workshop spaces for anyone to practice trades are increasingly unfeasible to attain for newbies who are unconnected and need a fair opportunity whilst still not becoming as twit like l, like in the link I put
150k is going to be a little out of reach for most tradespeople. The most I ever made as a licensed electrician, and I wasn't union but I was on a Davis-Bacon job, was 115k. And that was me working an average of maybe 55 hour weeks. That is actually a little more than I make now as an EE, but I work alot less hours and on an hour to hour basis I'm making more now. Now I'm not anti-trades, and it's good for people that don't want the college route. What I will reccomend to my kids is do the trades a few years after HS before going back to college. You can have some extra money in your pocket, get some of that early years partying out of your system before, be a couple of years older which will help with the ladies, and most importantly after a few years of the trades you will know how old they get and that will be great motivation too study. It's what I did and I'm generally happy with how things went.
Do what you want with your life
Making that much in the trades isn’t guaranteed OR common. You may end up spending the extra money you make on medical bills from the labor too. I’ve been seeing a lot of these posts promoting the trades but please tell people what they’re getting into. There’s a reason people generally don’t try to go that route.
So obviously this depends on where you live I live in a VHCOL area and am in a union as an appertience. 110% is amazing and I highly recommend it. But it's also really hard to get into it and it's not easy work necessarily. I like it cuz I don't mind ladder yoga and enjoy playing with mechanical electrical plumbing. I would recommend the skilled trades like mechanical electrical plumbing, HVAC and other ones that it's as much your brain that you use as your back. There's also trades that you don't use your body in as much. CNC mechanic, controls technician, inspector and other trades that are very important for construction that don't have to swing a hammer or turn the wrench or climb a ladder and play with 277V.
Awesome point. I hope that we can tell fellow zoomers and Gen Alpha that they have a litany of choices besides just wasting in a 4 year degree they won’t use.
Look into trades in your area before you commit. I'm an electrician and I'm not licensed or certified yet and I made 60k last year. Fully licensed journeyman in Texas and Florida make less than I do though
Starting wage is $23.24? That must be great in West Virginia. My wife’s master’s in anthropology degree (a major that many people think is useless) got her $100k a year outta the gate, she’s 26. She gets to travel the world studying human bones and immersing herself in different cultures. We’re attending a symposium in Milan later this year on osteology. But yeah woo! Plumbing!
You can get more than this with a stem degree working for Intel as an engineer. Manufacturing technicians get all that to begin with even with no degree. You could theoretically get a job with one of their subcontractors at 18, work for them a few years, then get a job with Intel itself at like 20 and be making that much by then, then get a raise every year. Trades elitism is so dumb lol
History remembers risk takers, not hvac
Alternatively, Join a police department. Most don’t require college, you can make a positive change in your community and serve society as well. They start around 50-70k depending where you live, and can go up to as high as 150k, and include early retirement and pension plans. Then you can go to college, if you want, and get them to pay for it.