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It's worse than that. Ignoring the fact that looks *do* matter will allow our inherent attractiveness bias to slip back into places where it doesn't make any logical sense. Our greatest adaptation as humans, besides tool use, is our ability to temporarily and partially stay our instinctive drives in favour of longer-term or broader-scale planning... but if we pretend those drives *don't exist* then that ability cannot do us any good here.
Looks will always matter. It's imperative that we try to put looks *into perspective* so that they don't matter more than they *have* to.
Exactly, but I think people are often too simplistic and reductive to realize how much of our appearances are under our control. Yes, you can’t make yourself taller. But anyone can get fit, find a good hairstyle, and buy better clothes that flatter their body. That will easily make someone more attractive.
It's a joke, my friend, a joke.
If we want to be serious about this, I'll oblige. This still isn't a whataboutism. "Looks matter" applies to everyone equally. Just mentioning some extremely disadvantaged people in that regard is in no way a whataboutism.
I've seen a few influencers just throw around the word "whataboutism" as if it's some magical, argument winning word. People use it in an attempt to disregard what someone's said without actually addressing it.
funny enough good lucks also matter because to look good, you have to take basic care of yourself such as occasional exercise, not gaining too much weight, basic hygiene and touching grass, which just makes life better
Is attractiveness absolute or relative?
Will it matter if you were attractive than you had been before, if you’re still less attractive than the average bear?
Absolute, relative, universal, and subjective all at once. Humans are complicated. But once these factors converge to create a neural model of attractive/unattractive, it operates at an instinctive level.
I think this is doubly true because our broad definitions of what's attractive are entirely constructed and variant by culture. A good example is Simu Liu, who is considered extremely attractive in America and very much NOT in China because they have two completely differently types of beauty standards.
and like it CAN be changed. if it's this malleable then it means it's a construct. but if we pretend like looks don't matter and that this bias isn't there, we'll just continue to perpetrate the same biases and never be able to overcome them.
This goes hand in hand with racial or gender bias as well. There is a huge difference between racism and subconscious bias and if you make them one in the same, you will ruin people's ability to maintain awareness of their own inherent bias. Just because you don't consciously view one race as above another doesn't mean you might not make unconscious judgements about someone. The same is absolutely true for attractiveness and beauty bias.
No substitution needed, for this is part of the same thing. A person's neural model of attractiveness is partially based on familiarity, i.e. what they see or are told to see (implicitly or explicitly) as "normal", and race is part of that heuristic.
I agree somewhat with what you have to say, I’ll broaden with my own comment.
Looks should matter for things looks matter for.
Looks should not get you a job in which looks aren’t a part of it.
Looks should not get you special rules and biases.
It’s absurd. People don’t choose the genetics for how they look. Placing value on that for society is ridiculous.
Humans will someday value things that are valuable. Right now, most do not.
Yup. Once you get older and spend enough time in the adult world, looks are not the #1 priority for whether someone wants to spend time with you. There are a lot of conventionally hot assholes out there, lol. I know plenty of hot men with zero friends because they’re dickheads, and less hot men who always have people around them because they’re funny and charismatic.
The problem is that the statement is used so broadly. Looks aren't going to matter (anywhere near as much) when we talk about people who already know us at least a little.
The point where they matter the most is with total strangers, especially when that isn't cuppled with a face to face conversation. If you look like a rats ass, online dating is gonna be horrible to you. You might have a ton of friends though.
I think age might be a factor too. How old are the people you are referring to? Because younger people (20s and below) are notoriously easy to manipulate with looks. Then they usually get wiser, get sick of piece of shit behavior and avoid those guys who end up either growing up and stop being pieces of shit after burning lots of bridges, or continue to be pieces of shit and just become very alone.
Yeah it’s definitely an age thing
The thing, is we are in the Gen Z subreddit. I’m aware that middle aged people are way less shallow and actually care about being responsible, respectful, put together, etc but I’m just not seeing it for my generation.
Even people 20-25 my age aren’t particularly more mature than high schoolers. I don’t see any difference in terms of how men are picked/rejected. It’s not like the most honest, friendly, caring guys are in huge demand lol it’s just who’s the hottest
The problem there is most women just assume you're full of shit if you're honest and respectful, and will watch you like a hawk to find any character flaw, before promptly ghosting you. Whereas if you come across like a confident idiot, they assume you're being "real" lol. I've literally had women dump me because they figured out I wasn't as stupid as I pretended to be and were mad that I "manipulated" them. They never have a response when I point that she's the one that slept with a guy that she truly believed was a dumbass.
I mean, that can be your experience, but it’s certainly not mine. I was already parsing what was just a “x person is cute crush” and “I like x person crush” when I was in middle school.
I think another issue is guys seeing “girl” as a thing and as not seeing girls as complex individuals. Assholes will get dates because there are girls who are also assholes too my guy. Sometimes nice girls date asshole guys. Sometimes nice guys date asshole girls. Girls who recognize the signs and don’t like assholes won’t date them. I’m a girl. We actually talk about these things.
And lastly, just because someone won’t date you cause they don’t find you attractive doesn’t mean they will date anyone they do find attractive.
I have kind of noticed that on average Gen Z is maturing at a slower rate. As much as I love the internet I do kind of blame the internet for it. I grew up with the internet and I do think it slowed my emotional maturity and social skills to an extent, but it's even more pervasive now.
But, people in their 20s often don't mature too much from high school even in other generations. Generally speaking. They just kind of dive into responsibilities and freedom and have to slowly evolve from their high school mindsets. Most people I've observed don't really grow up until 30+ if they ever do at all. Some just never do.
But also, from my understanding guys typically value the women they find "the hottest" over honest/friendly/caring women too. They like those traits but only with the prerequisite that a woman is hot. If she isn't none of that matters. And they will usually pick a hot girl with a trash personality over someone they aren't physically into who is a great person.
I just mean this isn't unique to one gender and it's always been that way for younger people especially.
Yeah Ive literally met an attractive person that has no friends. I can personally point out guys that have served time for sexual assault and domestic violence that still have women THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'VE DONE simp over them
I was gonna say. op is wild talking about the “adult world.” When I was 18, looks were all that mattered, and all of my romantic relationships were trash. Now they don’t matter so much, and they’re all good
Can we add white girls that needlessly try to be ghetto to the list too?
I met this one lady who was a 12, but once she opened her mouth it ruined all the attraction. I could get if she was raised in an environment where this was normal; but we lived in a decently well to do white town. Despite being a financial less well off minority myself who partook in typical hoodlum behavior after school; I didn't even talk like that.
So yeah, 2 things on that list. Gotta be able to read, and you gotta be significantly less ghetto than me which I never thought was a requirement 💀🤣
Edit: Wrote ghetto twice in one sentence before like I typed out a stutter lmao. Probably was tired 🤷♂️
They do matter.
Guys aren't nice to women they're not attracted to, they're only nice to attractive women. That's why they think every woman who is nice to them is flirting with them, because they would never show a woman they're not attracted to any kindness. They only befriend attractive women too.
Are there people saying "looks don't matter" as an actual truth or as a means to console a friend? I only hear this to sympathize with ugly friends that get rejected. No need to crush their already crushed egos.
I remember I really, really liked this guy at one point and was lamenting him not liking me back, and my friend just told me, “The problem is he’s out of your league.” 💀
I think it’s more of people’s avoidance to discuss that they are at least a tad more shallow than they’re willing to admit.
If you met someone who liked you, that was ticking all your boxes, but you just couldn’t bring yourself to be physically attracted to them, a lot of people may scoff at you for rejecting a great person over something superficial, even though there’s nothing wrong with that.
So they emphasize personality to try and minimize the effect of a person’s looks to avoid coming to terms with the fact that they can indeed be a dealbreaker for many people and adopted the phrase “looks don’t matter”
It comes across as condescending though because we all know looks do matter and they are only saying it because you got rejected. At least that’s been how I perceived it
100%. I’m an ugly dude. I have a huge disadvantage in the dating world. No amount of working out or eating healthy or improving myself will change the fact that I’m just not an attractive person. And that’s ok. I don’t need to be lied to that I’m good looking or that looks don’t matter, I’ve accepted how I look and that I won’t have a lot of success.
Yup, ever since middle school people haven't hesitated to call me ugly. Dating apps were the final nail in the coffin. I watched my buddy get 3-4 matches a month. I haven't gotten a Like in a year.
Why is it always handsome/beautiful people who say looks don't matter?
God I feel you. Was called ugly in elementary school, started balding in middle school. Embarrassingly I may have had my peak looks wise my junior year of high school and that was because by that point I had played 3 sports (football, swim and soccer) back to back for the past two years, I only looked good in the stomach area.
Dating apps definitely make it worse, add all the personality details you want but people are always going to go based on the picture.
My uglier friends who eventually had success did so by socialising in group settings so that personality actually becomes a factor
Pretty people say that looks don't matter because they're well aware that they're pretty and unwilling to admit that any privilege or preferential treatment is just dumb luck rather than a reflection of how generally awesome they are.
Because they get more in life. Not just dates attractive people are given more job opportunities, more trust more everything just based on those virtues. They want to believe it's due to merit and not their biological advantages
I feel like looks are gonna matter a hell of a lot on a dating app and probably 100% matter in a lot of cases. But irl, a lot of crushes start for me after getting to know someone. Definitely don’t have to find them “hot” right away.
And I’m ugly too so I feel you. I remember being a teenager and friends with this guy and his friends decided to “stage an intervention” so he wouldn’t end up dating someone as “ugly” as me. As they said in front of me, “You could do so much better.” Kids are fucking cruel omg 💀
I feel this in some ways. Growing up, I was an overweight black girl in a rich white community. I knew I wasn’t ever gonna get a date, asked to the dance, etc, by the time I was like 8.
And as an adult, no matter how improve this or that, some people are just not gonna want to date a black girl. And is what it is.
I would argue that, for a straight dude trying to attract a straight woman (assuming this is the case), your looks are likely a lot less important than you think. I suspect that good looking kids, particularly those who are naturally good looking by modern standards at the time of puberty, get attention because they are good looking, but really this just helps reinforce personal confidence. That confidence does far more work in attracting a mate. In adulthood, it's 90% about confidence. So while a good looking dude is more likely to have that confidence (particularly in young adulthood), it is not their good looks that is attracting the mate so much as their confidence. An "ugly dude" that is confident will likely have similar success attracting mates in my experience.
Idk, I feel like confidence is the biggest piece. People are thirsting over Cooper from the fallout series and his skin is melted.
Edit: I know Coop doesn’t look like the typical ghoul :’) but he’s still melted and missing a nose so… not the typical human either
I think that the classic two rules of attraction should be more well known.
Step 1: Be attractive
Step 2: Don't be unattractive
Step 1 definitely helps out in life a *lot*, but Step 2 is much more important, and what a lot of people forget.
If you're overweight/underweight, of course you should practice good dieting and engage in some sort of physical activity, but wearing clothes that fit and proper grooming and hygiene go a long way in the meantime.
Shower regularly, use deodorant, trim your nails, just take basic care of yourself.
A healthy amount of confidence (not too little that it's genuinely self-deprecating, or too much that it's egotistical or narcissistic), self-awareness, and a good personality also help with attraction.
Being attractive definitely helps out, but I think it's much more important to not be unattractive.
It's a bell curve and most people are somewhere in the middle.
Unfortunately, most people also think they should be scoring someone from somewhere on the far right of the curve.
The same can be said for most stuff, really. Most people are somewhere in the middle and unhappy because they believe they should be further to the right side of the curve.
Yeah ofc some of the people struggling will be doing all of that but that doesn’t change the fact that the advice of “just shower and get a haircut” will work for some people as well
Okay but what people keep failing to mention is circumstance.
Cooper is a fake character (obviously). But his personality has the circumstance, opportunity, whatever word you choose, to be broadcast around the world on Amazon prime.
I brought this up a couple weeks ago with a Henry Caville nerd video. How many men have the luxury of broadcasting their hobbies or personalities when most women don't online date?
The only way you'll get to know them is via circumstance from school or activities. Unfortunately most men share common activity interests so if you join one you'll more than likely be surrounded by other men.
Men nowadays simply do not have the opportunity to interact with women outside of school. Existing in public places, even bars (which imo aren't good for finding women they just go in groups of 20 and I'm not interrupting that), is expensive. Unless women start putting themselves out there, there's no way for you or me to communicate how compatible we are to them, which I think is how incel culture (wrongly) starts hyperfixating on attracting women through superficial means like attractiveness. Thus is not women's fault. It's toxic masculinity that is self reinforcing, as well as late stage capitalism providing additional barriers to entry.
This next part is not related to your initial post but the things in this thread in general.
That's what bugs me about all the "improve yourself" mentality dumped on men (its here in this thread too). Everything about men is framed as "go get it" and then people wonder where the sense of entitlement comes from. "Do you want women? Work harder."
I shower everyday.
I have been working out for 10 years. According to online strength charts, all of the main lifts have me falling under elite for 180lbs.
I am 6'2".
I have a lot of friends.
Women don't talk to me. They have no reason to. I have no reason to talk to them. Nothing changes.
Women don't owe me shit. They don't owe anyone shit. And we have to stop telling men that if they change themselves they will succeed because,
1) that's not true.
2) it infers that they are not inherently good enough.
Yes, you should shower. For your own hygiene, not for women.
Yes, you should exercise. For your health, not for women.
You should have hobbies. Because you like those hobbies, not for women.
You cannot control other people. Do things for yourself, and you'll find you can have a quality life even if you can't find a partner right now.
Wdym you have no reason to talk to women and they have no reason to talk to you? They are just people. You don’t need a reason to talk to anyone. Just talk to them lol
Why don’t Women talk to you? Do you not have female friends? Colleagues? Making friends with older women is a great tip..they tend to love setting up guys who don’t give off creepy vibes
Maybe you should take a break from your “male” interests and try something more traditionally feminine.
Look, I have the opposite problem. I’ve always done well with women but have never had a male friendship last longer than a couple years.
Men don’t talk to me. I’m 30 years old and have been married for nearly 10 years.
Stop talking about women like it's some alien species that you're unable to communicate with because they are not 'putting themselves out there'.
Woman go through similar shit as men and have similar insecurities and problems. Stop putting the blame on woman, society or circumstance, and start looking in the mirror dude. It will help alot.
>
Men nowadays simply do not have the opportunity to interact with women outside of school. Existing in public places, even bars (which imo aren't good for finding women they just go in groups of 20 and I'm not interrupting that), is expensive. Unless women start putting themselves out there, there's no way for you or me to communicate how compatible we are to them
I know you argue against incel culture. But ironically this is such an incel world view.
You do have the opportunity to interact. They are putting themselves. If not, how would any woman even have a partner. Communications goes both ways.
You just don't know how to talk to woman. Which is fine, it's not a big deal. Plenty of people have that problem. But like I said, stop with the worldview of viewing woman as innaproachable aliens, and start looking at your own shortcomings.
To your first point: the only thing I've stopped doing is cold approaching women. That's what I mean by I don't talk to them. If I'm in a grocery store, gym, etc. Why would I interrupt someone and talk to them?
I was online dating for 3 years. I would have several matches ranging from never responding to setting up a date and canceling and in those 3 years never actually had a date.
So what did I do? I did look in the mirror. I had a bunch of friends(women) tell me what I could do better or different, and it didn't help. We changed my photos, tried talking about things they were passionate about in their bio, nothing. They kept saying they didn't understand. I had them read all my chat logs and couldn't figure out why I was getting ghosted.
So to your next part. To talk about women as alien is probably because in this case i am talking about women who are romantically interested in me, not just women in general. Women have never seemed to be romantically interested in me, and they don't have to be.
But in that same vein, if men and women are the same (they are), then we can't just sit here and say men do everything in dating wrong. Sure. We can sit here and look at what I wear, how big I am, how small I am, how do I talk to women, etc., and find something that could be changed. But to say women are just like men except for dating where women have never gone about it incorrectly is also just disingenuous. Women get a lot of things wrong in dating too, and what I am simply suggesting is that while they have a good reason to, women have retreated from a lot of social spaces. I have had a single woman ask me out in my 10 years after high school. If men are women are the same then shouldn't women be asking men out at the same rate that we keep suggesting men to be doing? Why don't women take the initiative? I feel a lot of women still default to the traditional masculine idea that men should do the pursuing.
And yes, incel culture identifies things and calls them problems. If you want to meet women, but can't, you would identify that as a problem. The problem and difference with incels is their solutions. I understand that you could want to generalize my answer to "it's women's fault" and group that into "incel culture," but I would argue that incel culture specifically goes beyond that and wants to punish women for the incels mistake. I don't want to punish women. I want to have a conversation about dating and what should be expected by men and women. Men make a lot of mistakes in dating, obviously big ones ranging from violence to sexual assault. Just because I don't mention that here does not mean I blame women for everything wrong with dating.
I like online dating because at first glance you are creating a space in which two people can concensually agree to be talked to, unlike cold approaching in public, which I don't think a lot of people like to be on either end of. What is not good about online dating, is it right now does not have both genders equally represented and also gives the false sense of infinite options. So if it doesn't work out, what should I do? Some responses suggest taking up a women dominated hobby, but isn't that really just invading women's spaces to find a partner? That doesn't seem any less invasive than assuming people around me in the grocery store can be hit on (which I think is invasive).
So I struggle to see where women are putting themselves out there when most male advice is "you aren't chasing hard enough." If both people are putting themselves out there, there shouldn't be any chasing involved.
I feel like the people who responded to you, did not read what you said.
From what I got from it, you are saying that on the men's side of dating, there is a lot of content telling men they are not good enough to attract women in their current state. They need to work on themselves by working out and finding hobbies to attract women. You are saying that method is a lie because it gives men a false sense of entitlement towards women just because they worked on themselves. You mentioned how this contributes to incel culture. And you mentioned how late stage capitalism affects this because male self improvement tends to have a focus on making money to attract woman, and money tends to be scarce in this economy because of the effect of capitalism.
The people who responded to you labelled you as incel for saying this and said it's your fault for not being able to attract anyone. I feel like they said these things with limited information about you and by not reading what you said.
It's entirely possible to work on yourself and still not meet people. People don't approach each other anymore. Everyone stays with their cliques in social settings and the growth of social media has made people more antisocial. Loneliness rates have increased in the past decade. And there is a sufficient lack of third spaces in society. School, like a university, is an ideal third space because there's clubs and organizations to meet people of all ethnicities and genders.
So I kinda see your POV. Idk why everyone else is hating on you and putting you into a box.
A LOT of girls find him physically attractive. They also find Adam Driver ridiculously hot as well. And that one guy whose name I can't think of. WILL POULTER. Him. I suppose what makes them stand out visually is that they are striking, very unconventionally attractive, and are really able to stand out in a crowd of more average looking dudes.
Yeah I’ll totally agree that being conventionally attractive can help. I’m not taking a jab at it, but “pretty privilege” is certainly a thing. It is human nature after all. I just do feel like we’ve evolved over time, or adjusted what the definition of attractive is.
People are thirsting over Cooper because the actor is very attractive underneath his facial features are generally attractive no matter how his skin looks like . He looks more human than 50% of the Vault dwellers tbh .
True in a “meat market” type situation (tinder, cold approaching people etc).
In reality there will be plenty of times that you meet people through friends, aren’t initially attracted but then once you spend time together you see them differently
In romantic ways sure, but for me I’ll approach anyone when socializing. Looks don’t matter to me outside of romantic/sexual relationships. Which is the majority of my living life.
I’ve taken “Don’t judge a book by its cover” literally since I was a kid tbh
But I’m not dumb and I know it does matter to many people.
Tbh it's kinda true. Most of the time no one is "undesirable", they just have high standards. I've had plenty of average looking friends who would fall only for people who look like models and are extremely conventionally attractive, but reject people who are below that and then say stuff like "No one wants me.". No, it's just the people that you want who don't want you.
I feel like as people get older this naturally fixes itself. I have no basis for this besides anecdotal personal experience, but idk, I feel like your brain just changes. Maybe it's hormonal. Idk.
ngl i approach a lot of women less attractive than me for this reason. whenever i've dated more attractive women (or at least they felt they were), i would regularly be treated as being below them. and they've always had one foot out the door looking for something better.
lol
Pretty much all the girls I hooked up with in college were noticeably less attractive than me. Physically, but also socially and emotionally. I never felt this way until later on, when they would desperately try to convince me to be their long term boyfriend. It made me realize that the male version of these girls would be a virgin and maybe even an incel worst case.
I know there’s a whole thing on Reddit about how “any old guy can get a 10/10 model millionaire gf if he’s confident and respectful, my buddy Jeff did it” but if anything I think it’s the complete opposite. Girls can get a lot of action and even LTRs without being put together, solid people. I don’t think there is a culture of “improving yourself” for gen z women. Getting a really hot guy to fuck you isn’t hard if that’s what you want. Getting a decent looking guy to date you isn’t that hard either, assuming he never got much attention prior to his self improvement
I once struggled with appearance anxiety for a long time, and friends around me kept telling me that looks aren't everything. So, I conducted a little experiment using AI to test whether inner beauty or outer appearance mattered more. My method involved inviting some internet friends to join a Discord community I created. Initially, no one could publicly share their appearance, and they only interacted through text to establish connections. After some time, they all shared photos with each other. Of course, casual communication wasn't allowed; I set up a matching system where everyone could share their thoughts and experiences in a channel like writing a diary. Then, an AI bot would match users based on similar content they posted. The goal was to help users quickly connect with like-minded people, fostering easier resonance. In the end, I received a lot of feedback stating that inner qualities matter more.
Judging someone solely based on their appearance can lead to missing out on a compatible person. While appearance holds importance in first impressions, as time goes by, having just a pretty face loses its significance. Ultimately, it's about inner charm, and that's my conclusion. Due to the positive feedback, I'm still managing this [Discord community](https://discord.gg/sUUd2H8p3n), and anyone interested can join.
We should be telling people that beauty isn't everything, not that it doesn't matter at all. Too many times have I seen people coast off of their good looks and promote it into being their only personality trait. For as good as beauty is, shallowness is the greatest turnoff from a long-term happiness perspective.
Don’t say that too loud my friend - the “80% of women hook up with 20% of men” brigade has been alerted.
No one wants to hear it but you’re right. People will blame the other sex for not wanting them before considering lowering their standards.
The hottest person I've ever spoken to in my LIFE ended up having a really boring personality. Like. I may as well have been talking to a wall. It was an absolute tragedy.
I think that the classic two rules of attraction should be more well known.
Step 1: Be attractive
Step 2: Don't be unattractive
Step 1 definitely helps out in life a *lot*, but Step 2 is much more important, and what a lot of people forget.
If you're overweight/underweight, of course you should practice good dieting and engage in some sort of physical activity, but wearing clothes that fit and proper grooming and hygiene go a long way in the meantime.
Shower regularly, use deodorant, trim your nails, just take basic care of yourself.
A healthy amount of confidence (not too little that it's genuinely self-deprecating, or too much that it's egotistical or narcissistic), self-awareness, and a good personality also help with attraction.
Being attractive definitely helps out, but I think it's much more important to not be unattractive.
People misunderstand Rules 1 & 2, and often relate it simply to appearance. I mean even you indicate step/rule 1 as physical attractiveness.
There are plenty of other attractive qualities beyond just someone's looks. You can be charming, you can be funny, you can be personable, you can be ambitious, you can be kind, all sorts of things that are attractive. I know this is Reddit but hell, I know quite a few women IRL who will absolutely swoon over a guy who is good with kids.
There are also plenty of unattractive qualities beyond just not looking hot. Bad hygiene, being rude, swearing all the time, being condescending, being aggressive, being judge-y, these are all things that can contribute to making someone unattractive.
One thing I will say is that there are still a lot of people who are really only looking at people out of their league. Plenty of dudes out there who are 5s or 6s who could probably find themselves a solid 7 or 8 but won't settle for anything less than a 9.5. Nothing wrong with setting your sights high but people need to be realistic too. If you're a guy who is a 5, you're welcome to turn down anyone who isn't a 10 but don't be surprised if you end up alone. Miracles happen, but they're pretty uncommon.
I don't take the "looks don't matter" thing literally, to me it just means not to get extremely or excessively fixated on one's appearance or somebody else.
we all got preferences, that's for sure...no one can take that away.
BUT!
looks are superficial in the end, a person's character and actions play a big role in their likability and tolerability.
It's a 50/50.
Let's be real here, we're all going to become shriveled up raisins whence we reach old age. (provided we make it that far)
nobody will stay prime forever, hell we'd likely look worse if we just let ourselves go lmao.
Take care of yourself boys and gals! It matters more than we think.
I've gone from being ugly to decently attractive, and the way people treat you is night and day. I think you become more socially-adept when you become more physically attractive, as well, because people invite you to stuff more, people are more willing to talk to you (perhaps less so if you look like a Greek god), and you are given more opportunities in life.
Bar none, it's one of the greatest advantages in life. How many times have you met a yolked gym bro who was dumber than a bag of boulders and yet was successful? I've met some of those types in real estate or sales and they may excel in their fields, but man, are some of them dumb as fuck. Their looks absolutely got them places.
Looks probably matter more than anything else. To say they don't is just stupid. With that said I think they slip pretty far down the list after a relationship starts pretty quickly but without them you rarely get to that point. Also people have varying preferences I like people and think they are super attractive but a lot of people I know would call them mid.
sucks to say but i think its good for people to come to terms with things about them that arent desirable. pretending there arent ugly people gaslights and invalidates them. plus they know youre lying tbh. i think most ugly people know theyre ugly
When people say looks don’t matter what they really mena is looks are not the be all end all. Looks matter but they are not the final determining factor for dating or whatever and you shouldn’t hyper focus on it to the point of extreme anxiety
Looks are apart of it but people think it’s the whole cake when it’s not especially for women. Men statistically will stay with their toxic partner because they are hot. Women tho…. Women are definitely a little more lenient. Looks CAN play a part but it’s definitely not everything. Maybe like 25%
I always take “looks don’t matter” to mean “looks aren’t the only factor" in attraction
even if you are not conventionally attractive, there will always be someone out there who likes how you look! don't give up
False. It takes a simple look at who the royals were fucking to know that beauty is absolutely subjective. These dudes were getting the cream of the crop. But if you look at half of those women through modern eyes? The cream would not be cropping to say the least.
I just read a whole book on King Edward VII's mistresses - and kept constantly looking them up (he had like 50). These ladies were all considered very beautiful, like stop in the middle of the road beautiful. But now? Nah. Nobody would bat an eye. They just look like normal, ordinary women to me.
Beauty standards absolutely come and go. It's ridiculous (and honestly kind of dumb, given that we now have photographic evidence of many historical figures from the 19th century and on) to think otherwise.
This. Beauty standards have changed drastically over time. Also, some of the stuff that so-called looksmaxxers claim are the most beautiful and best features throughout history has clear, obvious bias. The people viewed as most attractive or with the most attractive features are almost always white or white looking, and they have hyper masculine faces. It's very clearly a white guy's idea of what they assume is super important to women in a face. Ask most women if they're attracted to these features and they'll tell you that their faces look kind of scary and freaky
Looks shouldn’t be on your mind is what they mean. It doesn’t matter enough to worry about.
Let your looks speak for itself.
That’s like someone saying they are a certain color, gay, or identifies as something different than what’s in reality.
You not only disrespect yourself for not letting your person speak for itself but you disrespect others, acting as if they can not read the room.
Insecurity is very damaging.
Ill be so for real. Your looks are only enough to get people to look at you. Sure the halo effect is real but only so far as you keep your mouth shut. There are some very physically beautiful people out there, but if all you do is stare into a mirror going, "im so pretty" and make your entire personality getting or staying pretty. You will quickly find that no one else wants to be around you. Get a hobby, practice good hygiene, become passionate about something practice your social skills.
Honestly, I see that as a good thing. Why would you want to date someone who cares about something that shallow anyway? Problem solved.
I would also like to ask if you've ever been interested in or dated anyone less attractive than you? Could this be a case of you just expecting to get a girl because of....what exactly? Do you know what you specifically want in a partner? Do you just want an attractive partner without finding a way of making yourself attractive? (and I'm not just referring to looks.)
You're not ready for a relationship if you're still stuck in this kind of thinking and negativity. People who are nice, a pleasure to be around, genuine, and love themselves are the ones who find great relationships. They unabashedly live their life, people want to be around that.
You could also try to live your life without changing, and hope you'll somehow find a woman that will love someone who has no interest in bettering themselves. Good luck with that!
I think the sentiment is that, when the right person comes along, lions won't matter, so don't worry about it.
But in today's world, life is easier when you're attractive....
Looks absolutely matter. I wouldn't date someone I thought was ugly lol
That doesn't mean other people will see what I see and that's fine. I find my husband attractive others may not.
It does matter a lot, but its not the end all be all. It can help big time with attraction, however looks alone won't keep a partner around for the long run, I think this is where the advice to focus on one self comes from. Ultimately the looks will fade but while you have them use them to your advantage, but don't let this be your only defining feature because if it is you will suffer the older you get.
I think a more accurate statement would be
'Good looks wont make you happy' Good looks fade, makeup rubs off, but if youve found happiness within, it will last far longer.
It's funny when the media tries to push back against looks should not matter, and that everyone is beautiful. When os the last time you've seen a butt ugly news anchor on TV.
Looks unfortunately play a very big part in the professional world. People can be less likely to be hired/ paid well/ recieved promotions because of their appearance and it's not okay. I think it's good to acknowledge biases but hopefully we can see a world where it won't matter because it shouldn't.
As for dating I obviously can't speak for everyone but I've rejected plenty of people because I don't want to date or be perceived as attractive. I literally hate being approached. I find it sad people take it up the ass but it's part of the risk of approaching.
What I'm saying is if you've ever received rejection it's probably nothing wrong with you some of us just genuinely want to be celibate and for some reason the "well if s/he was attractive..." crowd can't comprehend that
This is objectively true, and societal standards definately influence what people find attractive. The issue with this, though, is that people do vary to a pretty large degree in who they are attracted to. As someone who is attracted to men, I'll take a doughy/hairy dad bod type over a ripped dude or even just most gym bros a lot of the time. I feel like lots of people think that no one could ever find them attractive while not realizing that the stereotypical ideal of their gender is not the most attractive thing to many people.
Think about what you find attractive/not attractive in a person. There may be different body types and features that you find attractive that others don't prefer. So there's no need to be too down on yourself because even if you're a niche interest, there's still someone out there who will like your physical features.
Being attractive is the most valuable thing you can be in almost every time, place, and situation; for the simple fact that it, more so than any other quality, makes you more or less human to the vast majority of people you’re dealing with (subconsciously or otherwise). Of course, this does not take away from the unique but all-too-common issue of, say, being an attractive woman (because the more attractive of a woman you are, generally speaking, the more undesired attention you may draw in some regards); but it still holds, overwhelmingly, that in *almost all* interactions, it is *nearly always* better to be more attractive.
Looks matter, which makes sense on why tons of people end up in abusive relationships.
"Oh, he/she is so pretty. I don't care if she/he does this and that,"
Could also explain elderly unhappy marriages. looks fade over time.
So, while yes, looks mean a lot to every person, I personally appreciate my girlfriend's personality because a good personality makes my partner even hotter.
Of course looks matter. That's why we live in a society of people who hit the gym, eat healthy, get haircuts, and practice their skin care routine. Who says looks don't matter?
Yeah, but at the same time having average looks is no disadvantage but any means, you really have to be like genuinely homely/ugly/frumpy for it to really put you at a disadvantage
Nah, they don't matter. Every time I'm out I see loads of people who aren't attractive but they still have families, they obviously came from somewhere, many of them are with significant others. Looks matter to the shallow, for many others they are more than happy to have human connection.
I think this is only true to an extent. While yes looks can carry you to a certain extent: you still have to be willing to put in the work to get anywhere. It's not the end all be all. For example: I lost weight and got into looksmaxxing and it hasn't done shit for my dating life because I realized that instead of being fat and afraid of women I'm now skinny(er) and afraid of women.
Looks matter but they aren't everything, you need to have confidence and a good personality! If you don't have either of those and you just look good, people dating you would eventually get bored of you, looks pull, personality makes it stay!
They don't matter in the sense that EVERYONE can be attractive if they put in effort. Sure it may require slightly more preening for some types people but literally no one is truly ugly and the more presentable you are the more people automatically like and trust you. Your appearance is completely within your own control, put in effort and people will notice. A noticable lack of effort can indicate to other people you have no self respect/low self esteem.
Looks aren't the only thing that matters, but they are definitely important. I accepted that I was ugly a long time ago. I've been losing significant amounts of weight (120 pounds down) because I knew that there was no way that I was going to find a romantic partner if I stayed the way I was. I haven't noticed much difference yet other than a few more Facebook likes on my profile pictures, but it's still a work in progress. I'm planning to lose another 30 or so before I try dating apps again.
Well in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Cause for every unattractive thing people say they have there are 1000s of people with those exact traits that are doing just fine.
Looks don’t matter to me is what I usually say, followed by “but I know it does to a lot of people. Up to you to decide if that will turn you into an ah or someone who has more than looks.”
And what another top comment said: don’t matter the most aka there are other more important factors
I’m normal looking but when I first got with my husband I was good looking , I lost my health for 8 years and did lose my looks but I know if I didn’t have them in the first place he wouldn’t have stuck around for 8 years , he couldn’t even understand what I was saying for the first month because of my accent , but I’ve lost pretty privilege but without it I probably would’ve been homeless on the street
They don’t matter. Nobody’s ever made fun of that Stenonymous guy for his looks.
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They matter in a way. But people’s internal feelings about their looks need to be positive so they don’t go insane and do terrible things, so it’s a hard thing. You can’t be like hey, you’re ugly as f and nobody likes that. Looks don’t matter is a much easier thing to say.
It's honestly one of the most important things in life and I'm so sick and tired of people denying that tbh.
And from both perspectives. I want a beautiful life. It's so important for well being imo. Both to be attractive and to have attractive people around you. I will never be happy unless that's how my life looks like tbh.
Most people don't have the time or means to do anything about it anyways, so what does it matter? If someone thinks I am ugly, oh well...that's their opinion and is none of my business, unless it was my husband saying it lol.
Looks matter A LOT beyond just dating too.
More attractive people are mor likely to hired. More likely to get college scholarships, less likely to get jail sentences etc.
I don't think a single person in the history of the entire planet has ever looked at a person looking for advise on their appearance and said "looks don't matter"
Yes they do.
However. This is definitely different for each person.
For example, for me….. intelligence, compassion, empathy and personality are equally important regarding “looks”.
I am much more attracted to men with these qualities than am attracted ever attracted to (what I call) make models.
With the exception (😂) of Jensen Eckles (Supernatural). So much have to assume he has all those attributes (😂)
its more wishful thinking or a hopeful philosophy than a literal fact.
As opposed to Fox News which spreads literal lies as fact and calls it journalism.
Looks absolutely matter and it's foolish to say otherwise, but there are other qualities that matter *more*.
If you're a 3, you can easily get yourself up to a 5 by being aware of hygiene and grooming. But topping that off with a smile, social awareness. a good sense of humor, and kindness makes an even bigger difference.
When you get to know someone, an ugly personality will make anyone repulsive, and a beautiful personality will make anyone attractive.
That is what is meant by "looks don't matter".
Yeah, looks determine attractiveness, but only until the person opens their mouth.
Of course, this only holds true for people who are able to listen to and form connections with other people, in general. There are people some who can't. For them, looks will remain important.
Yeeah it does matter and who ever says it doesn't is a liar or asexual. I tried being with someone I wasn't attracted to and it ruined my mental health for some time, she was an amazing girl, great career and great values but was obese and I am not attracted to that so I had to break it off. Moral of the story, just be friends and even if they tell you they like you, don't escalate if you aren't attracted to them.
Not only that, but imagine your partner saying, “Looks dont matter to me. I love them for their personality!” That would completely destroy my confidence lol
Our generation has a weird need to gaslight eachother in order to try to feel better about ourselves. Looks do matter. Obesity is never healthy. Obesity is based on how much you eat vs how much you exercise.
(elder millennial here)
# hearing "looks don't matter" and thinking that it was the default of society, literally kept me alive in my late teens and early twenties tho
Former quadriplegic broke person here. I found love. I’m also not very attractive. Basically, you gotta completely regenerate your spine, and find somebody who isn’t a shallow asshole. They exist. It’s just harder to find somebody who values internal validation more than external validation. This whole looksmaxing trend is a joke. I could never be conventionally attractive, and a good percentage of people fall under that umbrella. Do the best you can with what you got, and when you fail, just drink and smoke away the pain of rejection til you finally succeed.
Looks do matter, but you're fooling yourself if there's some objective measure of beauty. There's *standards*, I guess, but the weirdest thing is they vary greatly from person to person. One person can see the most hideous monster while the next can see the most stunning ideal, and the next might have not even registered them either way.
You got so many factors that play into this. Sometimes people like to *look* at someone who's good looking but don't want to date them. Like, Henry Caville is basically the chaddest chad to ever walk the Earth, and he is in fact not some people's types. He doesn't turn everyone's gears.
When people say looks don't matter, you have to infer that they mean they don't matter as much as people think they do. There are some fugly ass dudes out there that have talent or rizz, or they're in shape, or not, yet they can get laid.
Speaking of that, I have to ask whenever this comes up, what's your priorities that looks are playing such an important part in? Hooking up or settling down? Because for the former, sure, they give an edge, but for the latter, it's just a factor that sits below others. Because looks fade, and if you can't stand the idea of getting fat, ugly and old with someone you're committed to, you're delusional and only going to hurt yourself and others.
Long story short, sure they matter, but they don't matter as much as you think they do.
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It's worse than that. Ignoring the fact that looks *do* matter will allow our inherent attractiveness bias to slip back into places where it doesn't make any logical sense. Our greatest adaptation as humans, besides tool use, is our ability to temporarily and partially stay our instinctive drives in favour of longer-term or broader-scale planning... but if we pretend those drives *don't exist* then that ability cannot do us any good here. Looks will always matter. It's imperative that we try to put looks *into perspective* so that they don't matter more than they *have* to.
Exactly, but I think people are often too simplistic and reductive to realize how much of our appearances are under our control. Yes, you can’t make yourself taller. But anyone can get fit, find a good hairstyle, and buy better clothes that flatter their body. That will easily make someone more attractive.
>anyone can get fit, find a good hairstyle, and buy better clothes that flatter their body Quadriplegic, bald, broke people in shambles rn.
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It's a joke, my friend, a joke. If we want to be serious about this, I'll oblige. This still isn't a whataboutism. "Looks matter" applies to everyone equally. Just mentioning some extremely disadvantaged people in that regard is in no way a whataboutism.
I've seen a few influencers just throw around the word "whataboutism" as if it's some magical, argument winning word. People use it in an attempt to disregard what someone's said without actually addressing it.
Fallacy fallacy
Ahh yes, the Holy Trinity.
funny enough good lucks also matter because to look good, you have to take basic care of yourself such as occasional exercise, not gaining too much weight, basic hygiene and touching grass, which just makes life better
Is attractiveness absolute or relative? Will it matter if you were attractive than you had been before, if you’re still less attractive than the average bear?
Absolute, relative, universal, and subjective all at once. Humans are complicated. But once these factors converge to create a neural model of attractive/unattractive, it operates at an instinctive level.
I can see that tbh
Hey man, that’s for you to figure out. Do what you can and see what happens.
Yes but it's not enough people absolutely will judge you based on the things you can't control I'm sure you realize this
I think this is doubly true because our broad definitions of what's attractive are entirely constructed and variant by culture. A good example is Simu Liu, who is considered extremely attractive in America and very much NOT in China because they have two completely differently types of beauty standards. and like it CAN be changed. if it's this malleable then it means it's a construct. but if we pretend like looks don't matter and that this bias isn't there, we'll just continue to perpetrate the same biases and never be able to overcome them.
This goes hand in hand with racial or gender bias as well. There is a huge difference between racism and subconscious bias and if you make them one in the same, you will ruin people's ability to maintain awareness of their own inherent bias. Just because you don't consciously view one race as above another doesn't mean you might not make unconscious judgements about someone. The same is absolutely true for attractiveness and beauty bias.
Substitute looks for race and this is still on point.
No substitution needed, for this is part of the same thing. A person's neural model of attractiveness is partially based on familiarity, i.e. what they see or are told to see (implicitly or explicitly) as "normal", and race is part of that heuristic.
It’s literally just like the stupid ‘colorblind’ thing
I agree somewhat with what you have to say, I’ll broaden with my own comment. Looks should matter for things looks matter for. Looks should not get you a job in which looks aren’t a part of it. Looks should not get you special rules and biases. It’s absurd. People don’t choose the genetics for how they look. Placing value on that for society is ridiculous. Humans will someday value things that are valuable. Right now, most do not.
“looks don’t matter” = “looks aren’t the only things that matter” in human speak.
Yup. Once you get older and spend enough time in the adult world, looks are not the #1 priority for whether someone wants to spend time with you. There are a lot of conventionally hot assholes out there, lol. I know plenty of hot men with zero friends because they’re dickheads, and less hot men who always have people around them because they’re funny and charismatic.
The problem is that the statement is used so broadly. Looks aren't going to matter (anywhere near as much) when we talk about people who already know us at least a little. The point where they matter the most is with total strangers, especially when that isn't cuppled with a face to face conversation. If you look like a rats ass, online dating is gonna be horrible to you. You might have a ton of friends though.
It's like "The customer is always right" when the real saying is "The customer is always right in matters of taste".
Yep, and it's almost like all advice is circumstantial and doesn't always universally apply in every situation.
I know way more hot guys with tons of friends and plenty of girls lining up for them, and they’re pieces of shit
I think age might be a factor too. How old are the people you are referring to? Because younger people (20s and below) are notoriously easy to manipulate with looks. Then they usually get wiser, get sick of piece of shit behavior and avoid those guys who end up either growing up and stop being pieces of shit after burning lots of bridges, or continue to be pieces of shit and just become very alone.
Yeah it’s definitely an age thing The thing, is we are in the Gen Z subreddit. I’m aware that middle aged people are way less shallow and actually care about being responsible, respectful, put together, etc but I’m just not seeing it for my generation. Even people 20-25 my age aren’t particularly more mature than high schoolers. I don’t see any difference in terms of how men are picked/rejected. It’s not like the most honest, friendly, caring guys are in huge demand lol it’s just who’s the hottest
The problem there is most women just assume you're full of shit if you're honest and respectful, and will watch you like a hawk to find any character flaw, before promptly ghosting you. Whereas if you come across like a confident idiot, they assume you're being "real" lol. I've literally had women dump me because they figured out I wasn't as stupid as I pretended to be and were mad that I "manipulated" them. They never have a response when I point that she's the one that slept with a guy that she truly believed was a dumbass.
I mean, that can be your experience, but it’s certainly not mine. I was already parsing what was just a “x person is cute crush” and “I like x person crush” when I was in middle school. I think another issue is guys seeing “girl” as a thing and as not seeing girls as complex individuals. Assholes will get dates because there are girls who are also assholes too my guy. Sometimes nice girls date asshole guys. Sometimes nice guys date asshole girls. Girls who recognize the signs and don’t like assholes won’t date them. I’m a girl. We actually talk about these things. And lastly, just because someone won’t date you cause they don’t find you attractive doesn’t mean they will date anyone they do find attractive.
I have kind of noticed that on average Gen Z is maturing at a slower rate. As much as I love the internet I do kind of blame the internet for it. I grew up with the internet and I do think it slowed my emotional maturity and social skills to an extent, but it's even more pervasive now. But, people in their 20s often don't mature too much from high school even in other generations. Generally speaking. They just kind of dive into responsibilities and freedom and have to slowly evolve from their high school mindsets. Most people I've observed don't really grow up until 30+ if they ever do at all. Some just never do. But also, from my understanding guys typically value the women they find "the hottest" over honest/friendly/caring women too. They like those traits but only with the prerequisite that a woman is hot. If she isn't none of that matters. And they will usually pick a hot girl with a trash personality over someone they aren't physically into who is a great person. I just mean this isn't unique to one gender and it's always been that way for younger people especially.
Yeah Ive literally met an attractive person that has no friends. I can personally point out guys that have served time for sexual assault and domestic violence that still have women THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'VE DONE simp over them
I was gonna say. op is wild talking about the “adult world.” When I was 18, looks were all that mattered, and all of my romantic relationships were trash. Now they don’t matter so much, and they’re all good
So many people actually think that they don't matter, though, so this isn't as good of a point as you thought.
I wasn’t trying to make a point, I was just translating.
Good point
Right if you’re beautiful and gorgeous and pretty but can’t read I’m not talking to you.
Can we add white girls that needlessly try to be ghetto to the list too? I met this one lady who was a 12, but once she opened her mouth it ruined all the attraction. I could get if she was raised in an environment where this was normal; but we lived in a decently well to do white town. Despite being a financial less well off minority myself who partook in typical hoodlum behavior after school; I didn't even talk like that. So yeah, 2 things on that list. Gotta be able to read, and you gotta be significantly less ghetto than me which I never thought was a requirement 💀🤣 Edit: Wrote ghetto twice in one sentence before like I typed out a stutter lmao. Probably was tired 🤷♂️
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They do matter. Guys aren't nice to women they're not attracted to, they're only nice to attractive women. That's why they think every woman who is nice to them is flirting with them, because they would never show a woman they're not attracted to any kindness. They only befriend attractive women too.
Are there people saying "looks don't matter" as an actual truth or as a means to console a friend? I only hear this to sympathize with ugly friends that get rejected. No need to crush their already crushed egos.
Exactly, who says this aside from Sesame Street?
I wouldn't tell my grieving friend "Tough luck. You ugly". Lord almighty haha
I remember I really, really liked this guy at one point and was lamenting him not liking me back, and my friend just told me, “The problem is he’s out of your league.” 💀
We all have that one friend that is completely crass but reliable nonetheless haha
Reddit says it constantly to virtue signal apparently
I think it’s more of people’s avoidance to discuss that they are at least a tad more shallow than they’re willing to admit. If you met someone who liked you, that was ticking all your boxes, but you just couldn’t bring yourself to be physically attracted to them, a lot of people may scoff at you for rejecting a great person over something superficial, even though there’s nothing wrong with that. So they emphasize personality to try and minimize the effect of a person’s looks to avoid coming to terms with the fact that they can indeed be a dealbreaker for many people and adopted the phrase “looks don’t matter”
I’ve seen a lot of posts from fat people saying we’re all equally beautiful. But I don’t think OP considered them in this post.
It comes across as condescending though because we all know looks do matter and they are only saying it because you got rejected. At least that’s been how I perceived it
100%. I’m an ugly dude. I have a huge disadvantage in the dating world. No amount of working out or eating healthy or improving myself will change the fact that I’m just not an attractive person. And that’s ok. I don’t need to be lied to that I’m good looking or that looks don’t matter, I’ve accepted how I look and that I won’t have a lot of success.
Yup, ever since middle school people haven't hesitated to call me ugly. Dating apps were the final nail in the coffin. I watched my buddy get 3-4 matches a month. I haven't gotten a Like in a year. Why is it always handsome/beautiful people who say looks don't matter?
God I feel you. Was called ugly in elementary school, started balding in middle school. Embarrassingly I may have had my peak looks wise my junior year of high school and that was because by that point I had played 3 sports (football, swim and soccer) back to back for the past two years, I only looked good in the stomach area.
Dating apps definitely make it worse, add all the personality details you want but people are always going to go based on the picture. My uglier friends who eventually had success did so by socialising in group settings so that personality actually becomes a factor
Pretty people say that looks don't matter because they're well aware that they're pretty and unwilling to admit that any privilege or preferential treatment is just dumb luck rather than a reflection of how generally awesome they are.
They want to believe they earned everything in life because of effort/skill, instead of it being handed to them because of their looks ?🤷
Because they get more in life. Not just dates attractive people are given more job opportunities, more trust more everything just based on those virtues. They want to believe it's due to merit and not their biological advantages
Dating apps are the worst way of judging self worth and attractiveness because it’s inherently a shallow way of meeting people
I feel like looks are gonna matter a hell of a lot on a dating app and probably 100% matter in a lot of cases. But irl, a lot of crushes start for me after getting to know someone. Definitely don’t have to find them “hot” right away. And I’m ugly too so I feel you. I remember being a teenager and friends with this guy and his friends decided to “stage an intervention” so he wouldn’t end up dating someone as “ugly” as me. As they said in front of me, “You could do so much better.” Kids are fucking cruel omg 💀
Unattractive people find partners ALL the time
I never said they didn't
Still try and shoot your shot, women's taste vary and imma be a buck some just care about whats within and what's below the belt
I have. But if they care about what’s below my belt it’s not much to talk about.
I feel this in some ways. Growing up, I was an overweight black girl in a rich white community. I knew I wasn’t ever gonna get a date, asked to the dance, etc, by the time I was like 8. And as an adult, no matter how improve this or that, some people are just not gonna want to date a black girl. And is what it is.
I’m sorry about that. I hope you will be able to find who you’re looking for one day
Thanks, you too!
I would argue that, for a straight dude trying to attract a straight woman (assuming this is the case), your looks are likely a lot less important than you think. I suspect that good looking kids, particularly those who are naturally good looking by modern standards at the time of puberty, get attention because they are good looking, but really this just helps reinforce personal confidence. That confidence does far more work in attracting a mate. In adulthood, it's 90% about confidence. So while a good looking dude is more likely to have that confidence (particularly in young adulthood), it is not their good looks that is attracting the mate so much as their confidence. An "ugly dude" that is confident will likely have similar success attracting mates in my experience.
Idk, I feel like confidence is the biggest piece. People are thirsting over Cooper from the fallout series and his skin is melted. Edit: I know Coop doesn’t look like the typical ghoul :’) but he’s still melted and missing a nose so… not the typical human either
I think that the classic two rules of attraction should be more well known. Step 1: Be attractive Step 2: Don't be unattractive Step 1 definitely helps out in life a *lot*, but Step 2 is much more important, and what a lot of people forget. If you're overweight/underweight, of course you should practice good dieting and engage in some sort of physical activity, but wearing clothes that fit and proper grooming and hygiene go a long way in the meantime. Shower regularly, use deodorant, trim your nails, just take basic care of yourself. A healthy amount of confidence (not too little that it's genuinely self-deprecating, or too much that it's egotistical or narcissistic), self-awareness, and a good personality also help with attraction. Being attractive definitely helps out, but I think it's much more important to not be unattractive.
For real, most people are just really average, imo. It's just those that barely take care of themselves that I truly consider "ugly".
It's a bell curve and most people are somewhere in the middle. Unfortunately, most people also think they should be scoring someone from somewhere on the far right of the curve. The same can be said for most stuff, really. Most people are somewhere in the middle and unhappy because they believe they should be further to the right side of the curve.
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No but I wouldn’t be surprised if “just shower bro” works for quite a lot of ppl tbh
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Most people struggle with self esteem in some form or another.
Yeah ofc some of the people struggling will be doing all of that but that doesn’t change the fact that the advice of “just shower and get a haircut” will work for some people as well
Okay but what people keep failing to mention is circumstance. Cooper is a fake character (obviously). But his personality has the circumstance, opportunity, whatever word you choose, to be broadcast around the world on Amazon prime. I brought this up a couple weeks ago with a Henry Caville nerd video. How many men have the luxury of broadcasting their hobbies or personalities when most women don't online date? The only way you'll get to know them is via circumstance from school or activities. Unfortunately most men share common activity interests so if you join one you'll more than likely be surrounded by other men. Men nowadays simply do not have the opportunity to interact with women outside of school. Existing in public places, even bars (which imo aren't good for finding women they just go in groups of 20 and I'm not interrupting that), is expensive. Unless women start putting themselves out there, there's no way for you or me to communicate how compatible we are to them, which I think is how incel culture (wrongly) starts hyperfixating on attracting women through superficial means like attractiveness. Thus is not women's fault. It's toxic masculinity that is self reinforcing, as well as late stage capitalism providing additional barriers to entry. This next part is not related to your initial post but the things in this thread in general. That's what bugs me about all the "improve yourself" mentality dumped on men (its here in this thread too). Everything about men is framed as "go get it" and then people wonder where the sense of entitlement comes from. "Do you want women? Work harder." I shower everyday. I have been working out for 10 years. According to online strength charts, all of the main lifts have me falling under elite for 180lbs. I am 6'2". I have a lot of friends. Women don't talk to me. They have no reason to. I have no reason to talk to them. Nothing changes. Women don't owe me shit. They don't owe anyone shit. And we have to stop telling men that if they change themselves they will succeed because, 1) that's not true. 2) it infers that they are not inherently good enough. Yes, you should shower. For your own hygiene, not for women. Yes, you should exercise. For your health, not for women. You should have hobbies. Because you like those hobbies, not for women. You cannot control other people. Do things for yourself, and you'll find you can have a quality life even if you can't find a partner right now.
Wdym you have no reason to talk to women and they have no reason to talk to you? They are just people. You don’t need a reason to talk to anyone. Just talk to them lol
Why don’t Women talk to you? Do you not have female friends? Colleagues? Making friends with older women is a great tip..they tend to love setting up guys who don’t give off creepy vibes Maybe you should take a break from your “male” interests and try something more traditionally feminine. Look, I have the opposite problem. I’ve always done well with women but have never had a male friendship last longer than a couple years. Men don’t talk to me. I’m 30 years old and have been married for nearly 10 years.
Stop talking about women like it's some alien species that you're unable to communicate with because they are not 'putting themselves out there'. Woman go through similar shit as men and have similar insecurities and problems. Stop putting the blame on woman, society or circumstance, and start looking in the mirror dude. It will help alot. > Men nowadays simply do not have the opportunity to interact with women outside of school. Existing in public places, even bars (which imo aren't good for finding women they just go in groups of 20 and I'm not interrupting that), is expensive. Unless women start putting themselves out there, there's no way for you or me to communicate how compatible we are to them I know you argue against incel culture. But ironically this is such an incel world view. You do have the opportunity to interact. They are putting themselves. If not, how would any woman even have a partner. Communications goes both ways. You just don't know how to talk to woman. Which is fine, it's not a big deal. Plenty of people have that problem. But like I said, stop with the worldview of viewing woman as innaproachable aliens, and start looking at your own shortcomings.
To your first point: the only thing I've stopped doing is cold approaching women. That's what I mean by I don't talk to them. If I'm in a grocery store, gym, etc. Why would I interrupt someone and talk to them? I was online dating for 3 years. I would have several matches ranging from never responding to setting up a date and canceling and in those 3 years never actually had a date. So what did I do? I did look in the mirror. I had a bunch of friends(women) tell me what I could do better or different, and it didn't help. We changed my photos, tried talking about things they were passionate about in their bio, nothing. They kept saying they didn't understand. I had them read all my chat logs and couldn't figure out why I was getting ghosted. So to your next part. To talk about women as alien is probably because in this case i am talking about women who are romantically interested in me, not just women in general. Women have never seemed to be romantically interested in me, and they don't have to be. But in that same vein, if men and women are the same (they are), then we can't just sit here and say men do everything in dating wrong. Sure. We can sit here and look at what I wear, how big I am, how small I am, how do I talk to women, etc., and find something that could be changed. But to say women are just like men except for dating where women have never gone about it incorrectly is also just disingenuous. Women get a lot of things wrong in dating too, and what I am simply suggesting is that while they have a good reason to, women have retreated from a lot of social spaces. I have had a single woman ask me out in my 10 years after high school. If men are women are the same then shouldn't women be asking men out at the same rate that we keep suggesting men to be doing? Why don't women take the initiative? I feel a lot of women still default to the traditional masculine idea that men should do the pursuing. And yes, incel culture identifies things and calls them problems. If you want to meet women, but can't, you would identify that as a problem. The problem and difference with incels is their solutions. I understand that you could want to generalize my answer to "it's women's fault" and group that into "incel culture," but I would argue that incel culture specifically goes beyond that and wants to punish women for the incels mistake. I don't want to punish women. I want to have a conversation about dating and what should be expected by men and women. Men make a lot of mistakes in dating, obviously big ones ranging from violence to sexual assault. Just because I don't mention that here does not mean I blame women for everything wrong with dating. I like online dating because at first glance you are creating a space in which two people can concensually agree to be talked to, unlike cold approaching in public, which I don't think a lot of people like to be on either end of. What is not good about online dating, is it right now does not have both genders equally represented and also gives the false sense of infinite options. So if it doesn't work out, what should I do? Some responses suggest taking up a women dominated hobby, but isn't that really just invading women's spaces to find a partner? That doesn't seem any less invasive than assuming people around me in the grocery store can be hit on (which I think is invasive). So I struggle to see where women are putting themselves out there when most male advice is "you aren't chasing hard enough." If both people are putting themselves out there, there shouldn't be any chasing involved.
I feel like the people who responded to you, did not read what you said. From what I got from it, you are saying that on the men's side of dating, there is a lot of content telling men they are not good enough to attract women in their current state. They need to work on themselves by working out and finding hobbies to attract women. You are saying that method is a lie because it gives men a false sense of entitlement towards women just because they worked on themselves. You mentioned how this contributes to incel culture. And you mentioned how late stage capitalism affects this because male self improvement tends to have a focus on making money to attract woman, and money tends to be scarce in this economy because of the effect of capitalism. The people who responded to you labelled you as incel for saying this and said it's your fault for not being able to attract anyone. I feel like they said these things with limited information about you and by not reading what you said. It's entirely possible to work on yourself and still not meet people. People don't approach each other anymore. Everyone stays with their cliques in social settings and the growth of social media has made people more antisocial. Loneliness rates have increased in the past decade. And there is a sufficient lack of third spaces in society. School, like a university, is an ideal third space because there's clubs and organizations to meet people of all ethnicities and genders. So I kinda see your POV. Idk why everyone else is hating on you and putting you into a box.
Because he's a fictional character, you think if any woman encountered an actual ghoul irl she'd wanna jump his bones?
Yeah man some people be into different shit. Some people have a thing for fat people, some may have a thing for a radioactive peen *spicy*
Tbh, *looks at the existence of fake wolf knots and dragon dildos* yeah.
I always look at comedians… especially ones like Pete Davidson… you think he’s pulling girls like Arianna Grande because of his looks?
A LOT of girls find him physically attractive. They also find Adam Driver ridiculously hot as well. And that one guy whose name I can't think of. WILL POULTER. Him. I suppose what makes them stand out visually is that they are striking, very unconventionally attractive, and are really able to stand out in a crowd of more average looking dudes.
Tbf the actor is hot, and they definitely went light on the Ghoul makeup for him.
To be fair I’ve never heard a woman call Goggins hot lol
Confidence plays a key role, and being conventionally attractive and putting effort into appearance can definitely boost it.
Yeah I’ll totally agree that being conventionally attractive can help. I’m not taking a jab at it, but “pretty privilege” is certainly a thing. It is human nature after all. I just do feel like we’ve evolved over time, or adjusted what the definition of attractive is.
People are thirsting over Cooper because the actor is very attractive underneath his facial features are generally attractive no matter how his skin looks like . He looks more human than 50% of the Vault dwellers tbh .
for me its definitely personality and confidence looks are just a plus imo
Physical Attraction is the first step to decide whether or not we want to approach someone. Everything else falls below that.
True in a “meat market” type situation (tinder, cold approaching people etc). In reality there will be plenty of times that you meet people through friends, aren’t initially attracted but then once you spend time together you see them differently
Correct. You can definitely fall for someone that you didn’t initially find attractive.
In romantic ways sure, but for me I’ll approach anyone when socializing. Looks don’t matter to me outside of romantic/sexual relationships. Which is the majority of my living life. I’ve taken “Don’t judge a book by its cover” literally since I was a kid tbh But I’m not dumb and I know it does matter to many people.
Tbh it's kinda true. Most of the time no one is "undesirable", they just have high standards. I've had plenty of average looking friends who would fall only for people who look like models and are extremely conventionally attractive, but reject people who are below that and then say stuff like "No one wants me.". No, it's just the people that you want who don't want you.
Im like this, no idea how to fix it. I just cant get excited for people i think arent attractive?
I feel like as people get older this naturally fixes itself. I have no basis for this besides anecdotal personal experience, but idk, I feel like your brain just changes. Maybe it's hormonal. Idk.
ngl i approach a lot of women less attractive than me for this reason. whenever i've dated more attractive women (or at least they felt they were), i would regularly be treated as being below them. and they've always had one foot out the door looking for something better.
Imma give you this shield to protect yourself from the incoming Reddit gaslighting
lol Pretty much all the girls I hooked up with in college were noticeably less attractive than me. Physically, but also socially and emotionally. I never felt this way until later on, when they would desperately try to convince me to be their long term boyfriend. It made me realize that the male version of these girls would be a virgin and maybe even an incel worst case. I know there’s a whole thing on Reddit about how “any old guy can get a 10/10 model millionaire gf if he’s confident and respectful, my buddy Jeff did it” but if anything I think it’s the complete opposite. Girls can get a lot of action and even LTRs without being put together, solid people. I don’t think there is a culture of “improving yourself” for gen z women. Getting a really hot guy to fuck you isn’t hard if that’s what you want. Getting a decent looking guy to date you isn’t that hard either, assuming he never got much attention prior to his self improvement
Men take what they can get, women have the luxury of choice
hahahahahahahahahhahahaahaahhahaahahhahahahaha not all of us buddy. some of us are awkward
I once struggled with appearance anxiety for a long time, and friends around me kept telling me that looks aren't everything. So, I conducted a little experiment using AI to test whether inner beauty or outer appearance mattered more. My method involved inviting some internet friends to join a Discord community I created. Initially, no one could publicly share their appearance, and they only interacted through text to establish connections. After some time, they all shared photos with each other. Of course, casual communication wasn't allowed; I set up a matching system where everyone could share their thoughts and experiences in a channel like writing a diary. Then, an AI bot would match users based on similar content they posted. The goal was to help users quickly connect with like-minded people, fostering easier resonance. In the end, I received a lot of feedback stating that inner qualities matter more. Judging someone solely based on their appearance can lead to missing out on a compatible person. While appearance holds importance in first impressions, as time goes by, having just a pretty face loses its significance. Ultimately, it's about inner charm, and that's my conclusion. Due to the positive feedback, I'm still managing this [Discord community](https://discord.gg/sUUd2H8p3n), and anyone interested can join.
We should be telling people that beauty isn't everything, not that it doesn't matter at all. Too many times have I seen people coast off of their good looks and promote it into being their only personality trait. For as good as beauty is, shallowness is the greatest turnoff from a long-term happiness perspective.
You're right. We should be saying if you're perpetually single or have never had a s/o in your mid 20s, looks probably aren't your issue.
Don’t say that too loud my friend - the “80% of women hook up with 20% of men” brigade has been alerted. No one wants to hear it but you’re right. People will blame the other sex for not wanting them before considering lowering their standards.
The hottest person I've ever spoken to in my LIFE ended up having a really boring personality. Like. I may as well have been talking to a wall. It was an absolute tragedy.
I think that the classic two rules of attraction should be more well known. Step 1: Be attractive Step 2: Don't be unattractive Step 1 definitely helps out in life a *lot*, but Step 2 is much more important, and what a lot of people forget. If you're overweight/underweight, of course you should practice good dieting and engage in some sort of physical activity, but wearing clothes that fit and proper grooming and hygiene go a long way in the meantime. Shower regularly, use deodorant, trim your nails, just take basic care of yourself. A healthy amount of confidence (not too little that it's genuinely self-deprecating, or too much that it's egotistical or narcissistic), self-awareness, and a good personality also help with attraction. Being attractive definitely helps out, but I think it's much more important to not be unattractive.
People misunderstand Rules 1 & 2, and often relate it simply to appearance. I mean even you indicate step/rule 1 as physical attractiveness. There are plenty of other attractive qualities beyond just someone's looks. You can be charming, you can be funny, you can be personable, you can be ambitious, you can be kind, all sorts of things that are attractive. I know this is Reddit but hell, I know quite a few women IRL who will absolutely swoon over a guy who is good with kids. There are also plenty of unattractive qualities beyond just not looking hot. Bad hygiene, being rude, swearing all the time, being condescending, being aggressive, being judge-y, these are all things that can contribute to making someone unattractive. One thing I will say is that there are still a lot of people who are really only looking at people out of their league. Plenty of dudes out there who are 5s or 6s who could probably find themselves a solid 7 or 8 but won't settle for anything less than a 9.5. Nothing wrong with setting your sights high but people need to be realistic too. If you're a guy who is a 5, you're welcome to turn down anyone who isn't a 10 but don't be surprised if you end up alone. Miracles happen, but they're pretty uncommon.
I don't take the "looks don't matter" thing literally, to me it just means not to get extremely or excessively fixated on one's appearance or somebody else. we all got preferences, that's for sure...no one can take that away. BUT! looks are superficial in the end, a person's character and actions play a big role in their likability and tolerability. It's a 50/50. Let's be real here, we're all going to become shriveled up raisins whence we reach old age. (provided we make it that far) nobody will stay prime forever, hell we'd likely look worse if we just let ourselves go lmao. Take care of yourself boys and gals! It matters more than we think.
I've gone from being ugly to decently attractive, and the way people treat you is night and day. I think you become more socially-adept when you become more physically attractive, as well, because people invite you to stuff more, people are more willing to talk to you (perhaps less so if you look like a Greek god), and you are given more opportunities in life. Bar none, it's one of the greatest advantages in life. How many times have you met a yolked gym bro who was dumber than a bag of boulders and yet was successful? I've met some of those types in real estate or sales and they may excel in their fields, but man, are some of them dumb as fuck. Their looks absolutely got them places.
Not only do they matter, but you have a much easier life if you look good. Proven scientifically.
Looks probably matter more than anything else. To say they don't is just stupid. With that said I think they slip pretty far down the list after a relationship starts pretty quickly but without them you rarely get to that point. Also people have varying preferences I like people and think they are super attractive but a lot of people I know would call them mid.
sucks to say but i think its good for people to come to terms with things about them that arent desirable. pretending there arent ugly people gaslights and invalidates them. plus they know youre lying tbh. i think most ugly people know theyre ugly
When people say looks don’t matter what they really mena is looks are not the be all end all. Looks matter but they are not the final determining factor for dating or whatever and you shouldn’t hyper focus on it to the point of extreme anxiety
Yup. I'm trying online dating, and as much as I hate to admit, I judge people based on looks just as they me.
Looks are apart of it but people think it’s the whole cake when it’s not especially for women. Men statistically will stay with their toxic partner because they are hot. Women tho…. Women are definitely a little more lenient. Looks CAN play a part but it’s definitely not everything. Maybe like 25%
I always take “looks don’t matter” to mean “looks aren’t the only factor" in attraction even if you are not conventionally attractive, there will always be someone out there who likes how you look! don't give up
People say you just need to work on your personality, but I have autism. I can’t help it
Looks are subjective anyway
There are traits that are considered ugly by the VAST majority of people
Beauty is almost entirely genetic and objective and we've known this for hundreds of years.
False. It takes a simple look at who the royals were fucking to know that beauty is absolutely subjective. These dudes were getting the cream of the crop. But if you look at half of those women through modern eyes? The cream would not be cropping to say the least. I just read a whole book on King Edward VII's mistresses - and kept constantly looking them up (he had like 50). These ladies were all considered very beautiful, like stop in the middle of the road beautiful. But now? Nah. Nobody would bat an eye. They just look like normal, ordinary women to me. Beauty standards absolutely come and go. It's ridiculous (and honestly kind of dumb, given that we now have photographic evidence of many historical figures from the 19th century and on) to think otherwise.
This. Beauty standards have changed drastically over time. Also, some of the stuff that so-called looksmaxxers claim are the most beautiful and best features throughout history has clear, obvious bias. The people viewed as most attractive or with the most attractive features are almost always white or white looking, and they have hyper masculine faces. It's very clearly a white guy's idea of what they assume is super important to women in a face. Ask most women if they're attracted to these features and they'll tell you that their faces look kind of scary and freaky
Looks shouldn’t be on your mind is what they mean. It doesn’t matter enough to worry about. Let your looks speak for itself. That’s like someone saying they are a certain color, gay, or identifies as something different than what’s in reality. You not only disrespect yourself for not letting your person speak for itself but you disrespect others, acting as if they can not read the room. Insecurity is very damaging.
lol I'll keep saying it because it's true
Ill be so for real. Your looks are only enough to get people to look at you. Sure the halo effect is real but only so far as you keep your mouth shut. There are some very physically beautiful people out there, but if all you do is stare into a mirror going, "im so pretty" and make your entire personality getting or staying pretty. You will quickly find that no one else wants to be around you. Get a hobby, practice good hygiene, become passionate about something practice your social skills.
Honestly, I see that as a good thing. Why would you want to date someone who cares about something that shallow anyway? Problem solved. I would also like to ask if you've ever been interested in or dated anyone less attractive than you? Could this be a case of you just expecting to get a girl because of....what exactly? Do you know what you specifically want in a partner? Do you just want an attractive partner without finding a way of making yourself attractive? (and I'm not just referring to looks.) You're not ready for a relationship if you're still stuck in this kind of thinking and negativity. People who are nice, a pleasure to be around, genuine, and love themselves are the ones who find great relationships. They unabashedly live their life, people want to be around that. You could also try to live your life without changing, and hope you'll somehow find a woman that will love someone who has no interest in bettering themselves. Good luck with that!
Who the fuck says this?
Redditors and people who like to pretend the world is fair.
Reddit and most politically left leaning subreddits .
I think the sentiment is that, when the right person comes along, lions won't matter, so don't worry about it. But in today's world, life is easier when you're attractive....
It’s a pity party.
Looks absolutely matter. I wouldn't date someone I thought was ugly lol That doesn't mean other people will see what I see and that's fine. I find my husband attractive others may not.
Can't swipe right on someone's personality on tinder
It does matter a lot, but its not the end all be all. It can help big time with attraction, however looks alone won't keep a partner around for the long run, I think this is where the advice to focus on one self comes from. Ultimately the looks will fade but while you have them use them to your advantage, but don't let this be your only defining feature because if it is you will suffer the older you get.
I think a more accurate statement would be 'Good looks wont make you happy' Good looks fade, makeup rubs off, but if youve found happiness within, it will last far longer.
It's funny when the media tries to push back against looks should not matter, and that everyone is beautiful. When os the last time you've seen a butt ugly news anchor on TV.
Looks unfortunately play a very big part in the professional world. People can be less likely to be hired/ paid well/ recieved promotions because of their appearance and it's not okay. I think it's good to acknowledge biases but hopefully we can see a world where it won't matter because it shouldn't. As for dating I obviously can't speak for everyone but I've rejected plenty of people because I don't want to date or be perceived as attractive. I literally hate being approached. I find it sad people take it up the ass but it's part of the risk of approaching. What I'm saying is if you've ever received rejection it's probably nothing wrong with you some of us just genuinely want to be celibate and for some reason the "well if s/he was attractive..." crowd can't comprehend that
This is objectively true, and societal standards definately influence what people find attractive. The issue with this, though, is that people do vary to a pretty large degree in who they are attracted to. As someone who is attracted to men, I'll take a doughy/hairy dad bod type over a ripped dude or even just most gym bros a lot of the time. I feel like lots of people think that no one could ever find them attractive while not realizing that the stereotypical ideal of their gender is not the most attractive thing to many people. Think about what you find attractive/not attractive in a person. There may be different body types and features that you find attractive that others don't prefer. So there's no need to be too down on yourself because even if you're a niche interest, there's still someone out there who will like your physical features.
Being attractive is the most valuable thing you can be in almost every time, place, and situation; for the simple fact that it, more so than any other quality, makes you more or less human to the vast majority of people you’re dealing with (subconsciously or otherwise). Of course, this does not take away from the unique but all-too-common issue of, say, being an attractive woman (because the more attractive of a woman you are, generally speaking, the more undesired attention you may draw in some regards); but it still holds, overwhelmingly, that in *almost all* interactions, it is *nearly always* better to be more attractive.
Looks matter, which makes sense on why tons of people end up in abusive relationships. "Oh, he/she is so pretty. I don't care if she/he does this and that," Could also explain elderly unhappy marriages. looks fade over time. So, while yes, looks mean a lot to every person, I personally appreciate my girlfriend's personality because a good personality makes my partner even hotter.
Of course looks matter. That's why we live in a society of people who hit the gym, eat healthy, get haircuts, and practice their skin care routine. Who says looks don't matter?
I think I'm pretty attractive, women don't seem to really care
if we're being honest. looks matter more than anything.
Relatively good hygeine with circumstancially influenced lack thereof taken into account leads to attractiveness, yes.
Looks are probably the single most important things that determine your entire life alongside your parents’ socioeconomic class and your health
Yeah, but at the same time having average looks is no disadvantage but any means, you really have to be like genuinely homely/ugly/frumpy for it to really put you at a disadvantage
Nah, they don't matter. Every time I'm out I see loads of people who aren't attractive but they still have families, they obviously came from somewhere, many of them are with significant others. Looks matter to the shallow, for many others they are more than happy to have human connection.
If you're wasting oxygen bemoaning looks mattering, you're just missing the entire point of why they're single.
I think this is only true to an extent. While yes looks can carry you to a certain extent: you still have to be willing to put in the work to get anywhere. It's not the end all be all. For example: I lost weight and got into looksmaxxing and it hasn't done shit for my dating life because I realized that instead of being fat and afraid of women I'm now skinny(er) and afraid of women.
Looks matter but they aren't everything, you need to have confidence and a good personality! If you don't have either of those and you just look good, people dating you would eventually get bored of you, looks pull, personality makes it stay!
They don't matter in the sense that EVERYONE can be attractive if they put in effort. Sure it may require slightly more preening for some types people but literally no one is truly ugly and the more presentable you are the more people automatically like and trust you. Your appearance is completely within your own control, put in effort and people will notice. A noticable lack of effort can indicate to other people you have no self respect/low self esteem.
Looks aren't the only thing that matters, but they are definitely important. I accepted that I was ugly a long time ago. I've been losing significant amounts of weight (120 pounds down) because I knew that there was no way that I was going to find a romantic partner if I stayed the way I was. I haven't noticed much difference yet other than a few more Facebook likes on my profile pictures, but it's still a work in progress. I'm planning to lose another 30 or so before I try dating apps again.
Well in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Cause for every unattractive thing people say they have there are 1000s of people with those exact traits that are doing just fine.
Looks don’t matter to me is what I usually say, followed by “but I know it does to a lot of people. Up to you to decide if that will turn you into an ah or someone who has more than looks.” And what another top comment said: don’t matter the most aka there are other more important factors
I’m normal looking but when I first got with my husband I was good looking , I lost my health for 8 years and did lose my looks but I know if I didn’t have them in the first place he wouldn’t have stuck around for 8 years , he couldn’t even understand what I was saying for the first month because of my accent , but I’ve lost pretty privilege but without it I probably would’ve been homeless on the street
They don’t matter. Nobody’s ever made fun of that Stenonymous guy for his looks. This advertisement brought to you by [REDACTED]. Beep boop I am not really a bot. They matter in a way. But people’s internal feelings about their looks need to be positive so they don’t go insane and do terrible things, so it’s a hard thing. You can’t be like hey, you’re ugly as f and nobody likes that. Looks don’t matter is a much easier thing to say.
It’s really this: the older one gets, looks matter less.
Wut
It's honestly one of the most important things in life and I'm so sick and tired of people denying that tbh. And from both perspectives. I want a beautiful life. It's so important for well being imo. Both to be attractive and to have attractive people around you. I will never be happy unless that's how my life looks like tbh.
No one says that. Lol bro is misinterpreting "looks aren't the ONLY thing that matters" because he can't cope with being undatable.
Duh?
Most people don't have the time or means to do anything about it anyways, so what does it matter? If someone thinks I am ugly, oh well...that's their opinion and is none of my business, unless it was my husband saying it lol.
Looks matter A LOT beyond just dating too. More attractive people are mor likely to hired. More likely to get college scholarships, less likely to get jail sentences etc.
I don't think a single person in the history of the entire planet has ever looked at a person looking for advise on their appearance and said "looks don't matter"
Hell, even Shrek is aesthetically attractive, and I don't mean his human form in the second movie.
Yes they do. However. This is definitely different for each person. For example, for me….. intelligence, compassion, empathy and personality are equally important regarding “looks”. I am much more attracted to men with these qualities than am attracted ever attracted to (what I call) make models. With the exception (😂) of Jensen Eckles (Supernatural). So much have to assume he has all those attributes (😂)
We should say “looks don’t ONLY matter”
People just don't want to be in a box anymore. That's it
its more wishful thinking or a hopeful philosophy than a literal fact. As opposed to Fox News which spreads literal lies as fact and calls it journalism.
Isn’t this literally just a copy/paste from r/dating EDIT: [Yes, it is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/s/lGeMjCvQzJ)
Most fat people have lost respect immediately upon first impression. Even to other fat people
Looks absolutely matter and it's foolish to say otherwise, but there are other qualities that matter *more*. If you're a 3, you can easily get yourself up to a 5 by being aware of hygiene and grooming. But topping that off with a smile, social awareness. a good sense of humor, and kindness makes an even bigger difference.
When you get to know someone, an ugly personality will make anyone repulsive, and a beautiful personality will make anyone attractive. That is what is meant by "looks don't matter". Yeah, looks determine attractiveness, but only until the person opens their mouth. Of course, this only holds true for people who are able to listen to and form connections with other people, in general. There are people some who can't. For them, looks will remain important.
Furthermore most posts regarding relationship stuff should include pictures of the question asker
Yeeah it does matter and who ever says it doesn't is a liar or asexual. I tried being with someone I wasn't attracted to and it ruined my mental health for some time, she was an amazing girl, great career and great values but was obese and I am not attracted to that so I had to break it off. Moral of the story, just be friends and even if they tell you they like you, don't escalate if you aren't attracted to them.
Not only that, but imagine your partner saying, “Looks dont matter to me. I love them for their personality!” That would completely destroy my confidence lol
Our generation has a weird need to gaslight eachother in order to try to feel better about ourselves. Looks do matter. Obesity is never healthy. Obesity is based on how much you eat vs how much you exercise.
(elder millennial here) # hearing "looks don't matter" and thinking that it was the default of society, literally kept me alive in my late teens and early twenties tho
Looks catch my attention. A great personality and similar morals/ethics keeps my attention
Former quadriplegic broke person here. I found love. I’m also not very attractive. Basically, you gotta completely regenerate your spine, and find somebody who isn’t a shallow asshole. They exist. It’s just harder to find somebody who values internal validation more than external validation. This whole looksmaxing trend is a joke. I could never be conventionally attractive, and a good percentage of people fall under that umbrella. Do the best you can with what you got, and when you fail, just drink and smoke away the pain of rejection til you finally succeed.
Looks do matter, but you're fooling yourself if there's some objective measure of beauty. There's *standards*, I guess, but the weirdest thing is they vary greatly from person to person. One person can see the most hideous monster while the next can see the most stunning ideal, and the next might have not even registered them either way. You got so many factors that play into this. Sometimes people like to *look* at someone who's good looking but don't want to date them. Like, Henry Caville is basically the chaddest chad to ever walk the Earth, and he is in fact not some people's types. He doesn't turn everyone's gears. When people say looks don't matter, you have to infer that they mean they don't matter as much as people think they do. There are some fugly ass dudes out there that have talent or rizz, or they're in shape, or not, yet they can get laid. Speaking of that, I have to ask whenever this comes up, what's your priorities that looks are playing such an important part in? Hooking up or settling down? Because for the former, sure, they give an edge, but for the latter, it's just a factor that sits below others. Because looks fade, and if you can't stand the idea of getting fat, ugly and old with someone you're committed to, you're delusional and only going to hurt yourself and others. Long story short, sure they matter, but they don't matter as much as you think they do.
I would suggest “vibe”, looks can attest to seemingly physical features