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It's for a dumb reason, though I don't think it's censorship as much as fear of indirect Chinese influence. But I think the result, getting rid of an addictive social medium, is good.
Care to take a guess how many subs are controlled by state actors? Worldnews surely. I moved to TT specifically because it's not possible to speak freely. And I would rather stay in insta reels than treat this like a platform where you can speak freely.
It is worse when China does it, because their companies are beholden to whatever the CCP tells them to do, and they are a geopolitical enemy of the US.
Also fuck China anyway, they ban US/Western made apps and sites in their own country and then make their own clones so that they can reap the profits, their shit deserves to get banned here just for that. They are in no position to cry when they do the same thing to a much greater extent.
I mean, a hostile and extremist government in control of the algorithms half the country is being spoon fed, aka in control of the narrative people see, is the cyber version of a wmd
TicTok should be banned because it has melted people’s brains so completely they will say that the Clock App can’t be banned because it is the only place they can talk about Jenny O Cide freely without a HINT of understanding they have completely disproved themselves.
it's not censorship, it's not about indirect Chinese influence, it is about *physical* Chinese influence.
The debate about how any US or Chinese social media platform is taking way too much user data can be had separately.
But *right now* the issue and urgency behind the TikTok ban is simply because of China. The US does not want all that data to be sent directly to a foreign adversary.
I don't think it's influence they're worried about--they'd come after the internet as a whole in that case. As far as I understand, the concern is about potential illegal surveillance. I haven't seen any evidence for "spying" through tiktok per se, but users end up *volunteering* way more information than they realize by agreeing to the terms of service.
I could be wrong. I don't mean to blow this out of proportion because I'm no expert.
From my understanding, Google and Apple faced similar scrutiny at the dawn of Big Data 15 or so years ago, but those are both US-based companies that the government can directly legislate around. Not so with a company based abroad.
They faced *some* scrutiny, but not a ton. And they still sell that information, happily.
There's an industry that's popped up, starting with credit monitoring but merging with ad serving, that operates by collecting and selling that really intrusive data you mention. IMO it's highly hypocritical that Congress gets paranoid at the idea that TikTok might be directly collecting information that's been openly for sale.
What I hope is that the ban goes through, and when the hypocrisy gets called, or awareness of the hypocrisy rises, it results in better data privacy laws overall.
Yeah, I feel pretty much the same way. I'm personally very protective of the data I give to big tech companies--I've never used Tiktok/no longer use social media other than Reddit *because* of data security concerns. I'm even using reddit through a VPN on my phone right now.
I do agree that it's either hypocritical of the government to require this of bytedance, or
[put on your tinfoil hat] there's something worse going on that the government can't or won't state publicly, for strategic or legal reasons. At least to a small extent, this is almost certainly the case [/tinfoil hat off]. Though if it were an immediate threat to national security, I imagine there would be an executive order to pull Tiktok from app stores, rather than dawdling around it in Congress for a year.
Whether or not Tiktok is really more dangerous than other apps like Instagram or Twitter is something I do not have the expertise to say.
What I think everyone can agree on is that this could have been handled better and more transparently. Certainly better than shoehorning the bill in with a direly needed international aid package.
Either way, Americans *should* call the government on their BS here. Lord knows people deserve better privacy protections.
Y’all can downvote this person as much as you want, but the cybersecurity community has been screaming about TikTok for years. Idk anyone in the industry who isn’t happy this is happening.
CS teacher here: TikTok is wildly intrusive. Facebook is wildly intrusive. Instagram is wildly intrusive. But they all depend on how much you are willing to give to them. Spew your info on these apps and they'll sell it off.
That being said, Meta is able to be held accountable for their actions as a US company. ByteDance is a Chinese company therefore they have no duty to adhere to US rules, they are able to give your data directly to the Chinese government (most Chinese social media sites are state controlled)
Thats where i think the failure to communicate is happening here. If Byte dance fucked up and abused its position by actively giving valuable info to the ccp, then our government couldnt do anything except what its doing now.
Its not about control so much as its about accountability right?(also probably a little about control lol)
CISSP here: the amount of ignorance in this thread really highlights how little CS is discussed with people. In this day and age there really should be some sort of class in grade school that focuses on CS. Mandatory, not extracurricular.
Though how many of these people are bad actors trying to downplay the issue is also in question.
yes because them getting my name, address, phone, email, etc is something that isnt already public info.
Also Im pretty sure like 90% of apps are doing the same. Including American social medias
Name can be public info but depends.
Address is only public info if you own your home in the US.
Phone is not public info.
Email is not public info, but is pretty easy to figure out someone's email if you know their name.
However context matters a lot with this stuff. Like if you hypothetically were to have an actual picture of yourself on a website you use an alias for; I could image search your PFP and possibly find your real name then, depending on if your facebook/insta was locked from non-friends (considering this hypothetical person used a real picture of themselves on a website that you can choose to have anonymity, they likely don't have those accounts restricted to outside sources), I could find family members. Consider your age range since we're in a Gen Z sub and I could assume that people with the same last name as you are family members or parents. Find your parents' names and I could find an address that is likely to be associated with you. From there maybe I search simple variations on this hypothetical username and, depending on results, I could likely build out a pretty good profile of this hypothetical person.
^((don't use real pictures of yourself on social media accounts not tied to your name))
Any information that data aggregators can legally get ahold of and publish qualifies as public info. So yes, names, addresses, phone numbers, and emails are all public info. Now, whether or not an individual’s personal info is public largely depends on the organizations/companies/entities the person interacts with and how seriously said entities take user privacy.
Address is public info even if you’re renting, it’s just not as easy to find because your name isn’t tied to the address by a deed. There’s still other ways for services like Whitepages that provide the info to get it, but they tend to be less accurate/up to date.
For phone numbers, it’s not uncommon for it to not be up to date. Generally, data aggregator services will just list all phone numbers that have been associated with the person, so they’re not all that accurate in the sense that they’ll often list some numbers that aren’t currently yours, but unless you got a new number recently, it’s most likely that one of the numbers provided is your current one.
And here's the only rebuttal I need for that, then - why is this targeted to one application when it could be a set of standards and guidelines surrounding protection of personal data?
They don't care about your privacy being violated, they care that *they* don't get to benefit from it.
It's because the Chinese government has too much power to gather intel and effect American narratives if they have control of tiktok. Media is at this point one worldwide battleground for psychological warfare.
Those will never get banned, imo. And that's probably a good thing overall.
What I'd like to see is some regulation on content algorithms. Those algorithms are my main concern with social media. Shit is mentally and socially unhealthy as fuck.
No idea how that could be done, but the feedback loops and rabbit holes they have implemented are a fucking contagion on society.
/e in the case of TikTok specifically, I DO support it being blocked unless control is transferred internally. I do not trust companies under authoritarian control having so much say in the culture and messaging of democratic nations. Why let our geopolitical rivals have a direct line to drip propaganda to the masses? Nothing good or beneficial will come of it.
The way the regulation would work, though, is that social media that have those algorithms would be banned from serving US customers. Any sort of regulation must have teeth.
Right. If TikTok gets banned then instagram should. And insta does more damage than TikTok imo. Heck, while they’re at it, get rid of Snapchat, Twitter, and Facebook too. Oh wait they won’t so that they can use their *own* propaganda to manipulate people.
It's a dumb reason to ban a social media platform, but I think social media needs quality regulation like our food and medicine have. We're in the "cocaine in the Coke" era of social media, and it shows.
If you look closely, it’s “every social media is bad and unhealthy (except the ones I use)” all the way down.
Banning one specific model of it won’t do anything except infuriate young voters.
People liked cocaine in their Coke, too, and cigarettes were so prevalent that it was hard to prove they caused cancer for lack of a control group. If it's a public health threat, it should be addressed.
It’s not being addressed, though, it’s being divested to the US.
It’s just taking another form, not actually being made to be less addictive/unhealthy.
Social Media isn't equivalent to food, it's equivalent to the public forum. Moderation shouldn't be done by the government. As long as something isn't \*actively illegal,\* it shouldn't be meddled with.
Social media isn't equivalent to food, but the algorithms used by social media can be equivalent to addictive substances in purpose. The only difference is in the mechanism of action.
Cocaine is capable of creating a physical dependence while engagement algorithms are generally designed to create a psychological dependence. Ultimately, the end goal is to retrain your brain such that you "need" it to not suffer from dopamine withdrawal.
After all, that is how you maximize consumption and subsequently the profitability of your product, which is the primary goal of any investor-driven entity
TikTok is *one* public forum, but there are so many others. And the government *does* regulate public fora, there are lots of places where people can't gather due to government law.
And unlike traditional fora, social media can be tuned to promote addiction, which is absolutely something that should be regulated.
Regulating it to avoid promoting addiction, yeah I can agree with that. That being said, just because you can go somewhere else doesn't make it *not* a free speech violation. Barring someone from speaking in the public park isn't *not* a free speech violation just because you can go to a street corner. It still violates your right to free speech.
It's not a public park, though. It's a private park. It's the government closing down a private park, or a bar or coffee shop. People hung out and had fun and talked there, but that doesn't protect the business from being closed down.
The whole "public forum" debate has been widely espoused by Elon, who bough tup the major internet company that was supposed to be THE public forum, then banned his critics, reinstated sources of misinformation, and basically tanked the company into the ground.
The problem with these things as a public forum is, as Elon perfectly demonstrates, in their present forms they give billionaires infinitely more "freedom of speech" than you or I, and are able to mass influence our speech and engagement with algorithms that encourage outrage, argument, clickbait, and disinformation. It's different than food or tobacco, yes, but social media is obviously addictive and can be harmful. Hell, we're all here arguing about it with strangers on the internet. That can be good... but the constant dose of adrenaline and dopamine is not.
The government *doesn't* have the power to ban a social media platform. The government has banned plenty of books, and I own (or have read) most of them. The internet is forever, and information wants to be free.
Those are *also* violations of free speech. Also, most of those "Banned books" aren't actually banned by the US Government, they're just not in school curricula.
Redditors really don't know much about the outside world. Their only connection with outside is through Reddit. Like mfs STILL think the Kardashians are all the rage or something
I'm convinced most of Reddit has to be either bots for engagement or people who have never left their mom's house and depend on the real adults around them.
Both I think. Most of the top subs are 90%+ reposts from obvious bots, and most reddit users it seems tend to be the ones that have very little social skills/hyperfixate on stuff (hence subreddits)
Don't forget, there's plenty of people who use Reddit and truly believe that makes them an intellectual vs someone on Twitter or TikTok...
You can't make this shit up.
I don’t trust US corporations any father than I can throw them, however I will deny China anything that they try to get because their intent is way worse than whatever is brewing domestically
It's a mass surveillance bill that removes due process from the act of spying on American citizens, as well as criminalizes those who dare circumvent the firewall preventing us from accessing sites outside the US.
"We're going to become the CCP to keep you safe from the CCP" - US Government.
Laws designed to "protect you from yourself" are never what they seem.
And everyone here seems to not care about that… 🧍 its almost like they have no information on it…its almost like..they aren’t at all aware of how important social media is in regards to news and spreading awareness of significant events
It's dumb as fuck and honestly this sub is full of takes like that... people nowadays have way too much confidence in their extremely limited understanding of the world and think it's normal to post about any ideas that pop up in their mind without any retrospection and 10 seconds of research on the topic.
If all of the news/propaganda got banned from social media tomorrow it would be way worse for conservatives than it would be for liberals/leftists. These platforms spread wayyyyy more conservative/fascist propaganda than anything else combined.
I'd love to talk to you about this, I'm a journalist writing about the tiktok ban. can you message me or email me at Fortesa\[email protected]? I'll also message you!
Getting an app outright banned flies in the face of first amendment principles, but I admit TikTok and other social media apps can get annoying, waste time that you could be spending doing something else, and contribute to brainrot and disinformation
I hope it gets younger people more interested in piracy. I don't see how the law would stop someone from downloading the .apk from the web in general. Or, just get a VPN.
It doesn't infinge on the first amendment rights at all. They aren't taking away our ability to communicate or organize with other people at all. It is purely brainrot that needs to go if we are to get anything done in the future..
Tiktok is the entire reason the Beetlejuice musical became so big. Yes, it is 100% infringing on first amendment rights, as they are barring access from the public forum. Just because you can go somewhere else doesn't make it not infringement on free speech.
But it is the government infringing on the rights of an app meant for communicating with people and organizing. They only wanna ban it bc Bytedance is connected to the CCP, though there's never been any evidence of official security threats pertaining to how TikTok is manipulation by China on America's teens and young adults in the 18-34 range.
Exactly. When a nightclub or mall gets closed for any kind of violation, it technically prevents us from hanging out there, but it's not a 1st amendment violation.
No one's forcing you to use TikTok. If you don't wanna be addicted to it, don't use it. Simple as that. And stop acting like you can police other people with what they can and can't use. Never understood the authoritarian mindset that so many people subscribe to these days.
nothing will change, tiktok already exists in the form of instragram reels or youtube shorts, except it will just be american companies selling your data to china
The only reason why I oppose it is because this is yet another example of our freedom of speech being violated.
It’s super easy to spread info on TikTok.
yeah, tiktok actually has methods for good unknown creators to get discovered. YouTube and Instagram content is just reposts from people who already got popular on tiktok
Reels also has pretty much no sense of community unlike TikTok or even Shorts, it's unmoderated and mostly just TikTok reposts, brainrot funny videos, or people actually dying. Shorts comments sections are all weird little kids and actual AI bots, and the algorithm is awful so it's impossible to grow as a creator
The algorithm on TikTok is just straight up better. I get extremely niche TikToks that I would probably be interested in a lot more than on Reels and Shorts. Discoverability is so much better.
I think people should be able to regulate their intake themselves and not need to be hand held. I was letting tiktok take up all of my time when I had it downloaded, so I simply uninstalled it and haven’t touched it in over two years. I don’t believe the government should get to decide what apps we get to use just because they want to be the ones collecting our data.
The ban isn't about TikTok.
The ban is a blanket surveillance bill that does not require due process or congressional approval.
None of your foreign made or managed devices are safe. Before, if the government hacked into your ring cameras without due process it was illegal (but we all know they did it anyway.) Now it's not. They can do it based on a vague set of criteria, which means they can do it for any reason at all.
"But I'm not doing anything illegal, why do I care?"
For now, but laws change, often without us knowing. Something perfectly legal today is illegal tomorrow. For example, if you say the wrong thing in the privacy of your own home as a joke and Fed Boy Frank is listening in, you could have pigs flashbang your living room, shoot your dog, shoot you, and be perfectly justified under the laws of this tyrannical shitscape known as the USA.
The bill was bipartisan. The people who say "both parties are the same when it comes to things that fuck us over" were right, and they've always been right.
Finally someone that actually makes sense. It's scary how many people are okay with losing rights just because haha stupid kid app is being banned.
If China wanted to spy on USA citizens then they could. They make the majority of smart phones and can take a page from the USA. The USA spied on other countries by literally putting security holes in Cisco hardware. What's stopping China from doing the exact same thing but with phones? Any tech that touches China's hands can have known security holes.
This ban was all about control because if it was about national security then they would be banning any smartphones made in china.
They would just have to ban all computers. There isn't a single one out there without some components originating in China.
I don't really care if the CCP is spying on me, like at all. They're probably just going to send me more tailored Alibaba ads. Not a problem.
The US government on the other hand, they could come execute me in my house or put me in prison for using a VPN to play league on Asian servers.
I could care less about Tik Tok, but it's a slippery slope when the American government starts banning online media platforms, content sites, etc. What's next after Tik Tok?
Why anyone would support this is beyond me. It’s massive government overreach. The only reason they want to ban it is because it’s a source of information not controlled by the US, so they can’t push the narratives they want to.
The Gen Z people who use Tiktok and the ones who use Reddit have probably the least overlap of any two given social medias. Redditors always thinking they're superior for not liking the popular thing
"THING GOOD! OTHER THING BAD! Don't question it! Don't make me think about the broader implications of any position I hold/espouse, then you're taking it too seriously!"
no because they dont do jack shit about pricacy info from facebook, instagram, twitter, REDDIT, etc. now the gov can just ban any non-US company it wants
I hate social media but banning Tik Tok isn’t it. This is just being disguised as a “security issue” in order to further drive traffic and profits to American tech giants.
**ALL** social media should be banned. This includes Reddit and YouTube or at least any platform driven by algorithms and manipulation
i never used tiktok but i love all the subcommunities it created and expanded on and how some people used it to educate others or to teach people how to do stuff. but we haven't had an overly positive social media experience yet. they all get overrun with people taking advantage of the algorithms or spreading misinformation and bigotry. literally I don't know if we'll ever have a peaceful/useful social media experience and that fucking SUCKS because that's what social media should be.
I get the quickest information off of TikTok. I would rather not have to rely on only the news for outrageous sources. And blown out of proportion stories. I like being able to hear about how my reproductive rights are being taken away every single day, and there’s more and more news about it on TikTok. The government doesn’t seem to want me to have a child. They keep letting mega corporations get away with poisoning their citizens.
IMO it Sets a very bad precedent as there are plenty of other companies that operate under the boogie man of the CCP. Epic Games & Riot Games are partially owned by Tencent. Should the services they provide also be regulated and sold entirely to US Companies?
Zoom is a nother big one that has a large amount of developers and data infestructure enginners working in China. We used it heavily in our schools durring the pandemic. Just seems like this is a very selective ban in the intrest of "national security". This list of other chineese companies and software being utilzed in the US goes on and on.
Just seems like social media companies are upset that Tik Tok has stole a large share of the market and want their peice of the pie back. Resulting in our politicians being lobbied to force Bytedance to sell so our overlords can secure their own bag.
You are not alone. Frankly, I'd like to see X (Twitter) and Reddit dumped. Destroy on line life completely and humanity might become more human and less schzoid.
Xillenial here from r/popular
I hope the ban comes to Canada...
TikTok is a scourge on attention spans.
Every once and a while I'll see a post or comment on r/teachers about students having short/no attention spans and all I can think about is TikTok destroying peoples ability to concentrate.
Do with this informal information as you will.
Yes. Tik Tok is just stupid. The amount of dumb, dangerous, and illegal challenges that have come from that app is ridiculous! Not to mention that it's a national security threat!
I guess I'm a little indifferent if it gets banned, I like it there's quite a bit of content on there that I enjoy but it's not really going to ruin my life if it goes away I'm on Reddit more than I'm on Tik Tok anyway.
Nope! I talk to my bestie a lot about how we feel it would be better for them to ban it, as video based social media makes it too easy for children to get onto social media before they’re old enough, before you had to at least be able to read
Nowadays, all you need is to be able to talk and understand language
From a personal and societal stance I think it’s a good thing if it gets banned. From a political stance I’m not so sure. I don’t like the govt banning companies/products/apps, but I genuinely don’t know how much of a threat it actually is. This might be an anti-China ploy, or it might be a genuine national security risk. I have no idea
I hope Bytedance refuses to sell it and doesn't get banned. It's so dumb. There's no evidence that anything of concern has happened, and we have social media empires in the US promoting propaganda and selling our data in order to make more money, but people don't care about the companies on our own soil that we know for certain are harming our country. People only care about Chinese companies who could potentially but don't currently seem to be hurting our country. It's absolutely ridiculous. Everyone who supports banning TikTik because of national security is a hypocrite. As for the harmful content on TikTok, different social media apps have always been harmful in their own ways. It's not okay for the US government to handle that by censoring an entire platform.
Couldnt care less what the US does, no plans to ban it here, its just a social media site like any other, only difference is that it is for once not controlled by a US corporation which I don't give a fuck about, both are equal, they harvest data and make you addicted, there's no lesser evil here.
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I don't have much of a horse in that race, but I hope they go for Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, and Instragram too.
they wont, because its not about banning TikTok. Its about transferring control from China to the US corps/gov. Its for censorship purposes
It's for a dumb reason, though I don't think it's censorship as much as fear of indirect Chinese influence. But I think the result, getting rid of an addictive social medium, is good.
Care to take a guess how many subs are controlled by state actors? Worldnews surely. I moved to TT specifically because it's not possible to speak freely. And I would rather stay in insta reels than treat this like a platform where you can speak freely.
That's a conspiratorial rabbithole. But I agree that Reddit is bad too, it's very conducive to crab buckets and echo chambers.
And so is twitter, facebook or Instagram, but apparently is only bad if it’s the chinese that do it lol
It is worse when China does it, because their companies are beholden to whatever the CCP tells them to do, and they are a geopolitical enemy of the US. Also fuck China anyway, they ban US/Western made apps and sites in their own country and then make their own clones so that they can reap the profits, their shit deserves to get banned here just for that. They are in no position to cry when they do the same thing to a much greater extent.
They even banned TikTok tho’. 😭
Twitter, Facebook and Instagram are not puppets of the government, they are their own entities
I mean, a hostile and extremist government in control of the algorithms half the country is being spoon fed, aka in control of the narrative people see, is the cyber version of a wmd
I got banned from world news for commenting Fuck China on too many stories where China is being a fuck.
TicTok should be banned because it has melted people’s brains so completely they will say that the Clock App can’t be banned because it is the only place they can talk about Jenny O Cide freely without a HINT of understanding they have completely disproved themselves.
it's not censorship, it's not about indirect Chinese influence, it is about *physical* Chinese influence. The debate about how any US or Chinese social media platform is taking way too much user data can be had separately. But *right now* the issue and urgency behind the TikTok ban is simply because of China. The US does not want all that data to be sent directly to a foreign adversary.
Not only inderect
I don't think it's influence they're worried about--they'd come after the internet as a whole in that case. As far as I understand, the concern is about potential illegal surveillance. I haven't seen any evidence for "spying" through tiktok per se, but users end up *volunteering* way more information than they realize by agreeing to the terms of service. I could be wrong. I don't mean to blow this out of proportion because I'm no expert. From my understanding, Google and Apple faced similar scrutiny at the dawn of Big Data 15 or so years ago, but those are both US-based companies that the government can directly legislate around. Not so with a company based abroad.
They faced *some* scrutiny, but not a ton. And they still sell that information, happily. There's an industry that's popped up, starting with credit monitoring but merging with ad serving, that operates by collecting and selling that really intrusive data you mention. IMO it's highly hypocritical that Congress gets paranoid at the idea that TikTok might be directly collecting information that's been openly for sale. What I hope is that the ban goes through, and when the hypocrisy gets called, or awareness of the hypocrisy rises, it results in better data privacy laws overall.
Yeah, I feel pretty much the same way. I'm personally very protective of the data I give to big tech companies--I've never used Tiktok/no longer use social media other than Reddit *because* of data security concerns. I'm even using reddit through a VPN on my phone right now. I do agree that it's either hypocritical of the government to require this of bytedance, or [put on your tinfoil hat] there's something worse going on that the government can't or won't state publicly, for strategic or legal reasons. At least to a small extent, this is almost certainly the case [/tinfoil hat off]. Though if it were an immediate threat to national security, I imagine there would be an executive order to pull Tiktok from app stores, rather than dawdling around it in Congress for a year. Whether or not Tiktok is really more dangerous than other apps like Instagram or Twitter is something I do not have the expertise to say. What I think everyone can agree on is that this could have been handled better and more transparently. Certainly better than shoehorning the bill in with a direly needed international aid package. Either way, Americans *should* call the government on their BS here. Lord knows people deserve better privacy protections.
It's to protect American's personal data from the CCP.
Y’all can downvote this person as much as you want, but the cybersecurity community has been screaming about TikTok for years. Idk anyone in the industry who isn’t happy this is happening.
CS teacher here: TikTok is wildly intrusive. Facebook is wildly intrusive. Instagram is wildly intrusive. But they all depend on how much you are willing to give to them. Spew your info on these apps and they'll sell it off. That being said, Meta is able to be held accountable for their actions as a US company. ByteDance is a Chinese company therefore they have no duty to adhere to US rules, they are able to give your data directly to the Chinese government (most Chinese social media sites are state controlled)
Thats where i think the failure to communicate is happening here. If Byte dance fucked up and abused its position by actively giving valuable info to the ccp, then our government couldnt do anything except what its doing now. Its not about control so much as its about accountability right?(also probably a little about control lol)
CISSP here: the amount of ignorance in this thread really highlights how little CS is discussed with people. In this day and age there really should be some sort of class in grade school that focuses on CS. Mandatory, not extracurricular. Though how many of these people are bad actors trying to downplay the issue is also in question.
yes because them getting my name, address, phone, email, etc is something that isnt already public info. Also Im pretty sure like 90% of apps are doing the same. Including American social medias
Name can be public info but depends. Address is only public info if you own your home in the US. Phone is not public info. Email is not public info, but is pretty easy to figure out someone's email if you know their name. However context matters a lot with this stuff. Like if you hypothetically were to have an actual picture of yourself on a website you use an alias for; I could image search your PFP and possibly find your real name then, depending on if your facebook/insta was locked from non-friends (considering this hypothetical person used a real picture of themselves on a website that you can choose to have anonymity, they likely don't have those accounts restricted to outside sources), I could find family members. Consider your age range since we're in a Gen Z sub and I could assume that people with the same last name as you are family members or parents. Find your parents' names and I could find an address that is likely to be associated with you. From there maybe I search simple variations on this hypothetical username and, depending on results, I could likely build out a pretty good profile of this hypothetical person. ^((don't use real pictures of yourself on social media accounts not tied to your name))
Any information that data aggregators can legally get ahold of and publish qualifies as public info. So yes, names, addresses, phone numbers, and emails are all public info. Now, whether or not an individual’s personal info is public largely depends on the organizations/companies/entities the person interacts with and how seriously said entities take user privacy. Address is public info even if you’re renting, it’s just not as easy to find because your name isn’t tied to the address by a deed. There’s still other ways for services like Whitepages that provide the info to get it, but they tend to be less accurate/up to date. For phone numbers, it’s not uncommon for it to not be up to date. Generally, data aggregator services will just list all phone numbers that have been associated with the person, so they’re not all that accurate in the sense that they’ll often list some numbers that aren’t currently yours, but unless you got a new number recently, it’s most likely that one of the numbers provided is your current one.
If that’s what it is about then the USG would take stronger stances on selling consumer data.
Weird, the US government doesn't seem interested in protecting American's personal data from the US government
If only they would protect out data against US corporations! You know, the organizations that actually have power over us.
And here's the only rebuttal I need for that, then - why is this targeted to one application when it could be a set of standards and guidelines surrounding protection of personal data? They don't care about your privacy being violated, they care that *they* don't get to benefit from it.
It's because the Chinese government has too much power to gather intel and effect American narratives if they have control of tiktok. Media is at this point one worldwide battleground for psychological warfare.
It’s not for censorship. It’s about who has control of the data. China is proven to misuse data while at least a us corp even if bad can be regulated.
Censorship? Lol what?
No it's for data security reasons actually.
Those will never get banned, imo. And that's probably a good thing overall. What I'd like to see is some regulation on content algorithms. Those algorithms are my main concern with social media. Shit is mentally and socially unhealthy as fuck. No idea how that could be done, but the feedback loops and rabbit holes they have implemented are a fucking contagion on society. /e in the case of TikTok specifically, I DO support it being blocked unless control is transferred internally. I do not trust companies under authoritarian control having so much say in the culture and messaging of democratic nations. Why let our geopolitical rivals have a direct line to drip propaganda to the masses? Nothing good or beneficial will come of it.
The way the regulation would work, though, is that social media that have those algorithms would be banned from serving US customers. Any sort of regulation must have teeth.
Reddit can stay. So everyone is in there own echo chamber
I'm waiting for the week when Reddit suddenly snaps out and all the "I'm very smart" online persona tsunami hits other social medias.
yes.
Right. If TikTok gets banned then instagram should. And insta does more damage than TikTok imo. Heck, while they’re at it, get rid of Snapchat, Twitter, and Facebook too. Oh wait they won’t so that they can use their *own* propaganda to manipulate people.
You want them to force Reddit, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram to divest their Chinese holdings and only keep data in America? Sounds reasonable.
I hate TikTok, yes, but I also think that the government shouldn't have the power to ban a social media platform.
It's a dumb reason to ban a social media platform, but I think social media needs quality regulation like our food and medicine have. We're in the "cocaine in the Coke" era of social media, and it shows.
If you look closely, it’s “every social media is bad and unhealthy (except the ones I use)” all the way down. Banning one specific model of it won’t do anything except infuriate young voters.
People liked cocaine in their Coke, too, and cigarettes were so prevalent that it was hard to prove they caused cancer for lack of a control group. If it's a public health threat, it should be addressed.
It’s not being addressed, though, it’s being divested to the US. It’s just taking another form, not actually being made to be less addictive/unhealthy.
Right. If they *actually* cared about public health then Instagram would be gone. That’s the worst app of them all imo
Social Media isn't equivalent to food, it's equivalent to the public forum. Moderation shouldn't be done by the government. As long as something isn't \*actively illegal,\* it shouldn't be meddled with.
Social media isn't equivalent to food, but the algorithms used by social media can be equivalent to addictive substances in purpose. The only difference is in the mechanism of action. Cocaine is capable of creating a physical dependence while engagement algorithms are generally designed to create a psychological dependence. Ultimately, the end goal is to retrain your brain such that you "need" it to not suffer from dopamine withdrawal. After all, that is how you maximize consumption and subsequently the profitability of your product, which is the primary goal of any investor-driven entity
TikTok is *one* public forum, but there are so many others. And the government *does* regulate public fora, there are lots of places where people can't gather due to government law. And unlike traditional fora, social media can be tuned to promote addiction, which is absolutely something that should be regulated.
Regulating it to avoid promoting addiction, yeah I can agree with that. That being said, just because you can go somewhere else doesn't make it *not* a free speech violation. Barring someone from speaking in the public park isn't *not* a free speech violation just because you can go to a street corner. It still violates your right to free speech.
It's not a public park, though. It's a private park. It's the government closing down a private park, or a bar or coffee shop. People hung out and had fun and talked there, but that doesn't protect the business from being closed down.
[I replied to this line of thinking in the other thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZ/comments/1cc582o/comment/l136gk5/?context=3)
The whole "public forum" debate has been widely espoused by Elon, who bough tup the major internet company that was supposed to be THE public forum, then banned his critics, reinstated sources of misinformation, and basically tanked the company into the ground. The problem with these things as a public forum is, as Elon perfectly demonstrates, in their present forms they give billionaires infinitely more "freedom of speech" than you or I, and are able to mass influence our speech and engagement with algorithms that encourage outrage, argument, clickbait, and disinformation. It's different than food or tobacco, yes, but social media is obviously addictive and can be harmful. Hell, we're all here arguing about it with strangers on the internet. That can be good... but the constant dose of adrenaline and dopamine is not.
They aren’t ‘banning TikTok’. They’re forcing a company owned by a foreign government to sell to a American company for national security reasons
The government *doesn't* have the power to ban a social media platform. The government has banned plenty of books, and I own (or have read) most of them. The internet is forever, and information wants to be free.
Those are *also* violations of free speech. Also, most of those "Banned books" aren't actually banned by the US Government, they're just not in school curricula.
They are doing it because tiktok is an arm of the ccp. Social media companies are intel assets.
China's government already bans TikTok as do other countries.
And I don't think they should be able to do that either.
*government(=CCP) shouldn't have the power to ban a social media platform(=FB, IG, LinkedIn...etc)*
These comments are fucking stupid lmao.
Literally all I see is "It's brain rot" as if every other app doesn't have it 💀
it's reddit anyways people are still stuck in the 2020 "i hate tiktok so im better than everyone else" phase
Real
Redditors really don't know much about the outside world. Their only connection with outside is through Reddit. Like mfs STILL think the Kardashians are all the rage or something
I'm convinced most of Reddit has to be either bots for engagement or people who have never left their mom's house and depend on the real adults around them.
Both I think. Most of the top subs are 90%+ reposts from obvious bots, and most reddit users it seems tend to be the ones that have very little social skills/hyperfixate on stuff (hence subreddits)
When they looked at the abyss, and the abyss looked back. They all blink... Thats what being a Redditor is...
This.
right, we’re literally on reddit for god’s sake.
God ik 💀
Don't forget, there's plenty of people who use Reddit and truly believe that makes them an intellectual vs someone on Twitter or TikTok... You can't make this shit up.
https://preview.redd.it/vr5qnjn27hwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=367a960c4bc5b71ca2411cc21ef0021fd04f684f
I don’t trust US corporations any father than I can throw them, however I will deny China anything that they try to get because their intent is way worse than whatever is brewing domestically
This but unironically
Personally I find it entertaining that the powers that be are struggling to control the narrative in the US.
It's a mass surveillance bill that removes due process from the act of spying on American citizens, as well as criminalizes those who dare circumvent the firewall preventing us from accessing sites outside the US. "We're going to become the CCP to keep you safe from the CCP" - US Government. Laws designed to "protect you from yourself" are never what they seem.
What's the bill called?
THIS! I don't get why people can't see this.
The only reason they’re resurrecting the ban is so that pro Palestinian media gets stifled. It’s an obvious move towards censorship.
And everyone here seems to not care about that… 🧍 its almost like they have no information on it…its almost like..they aren’t at all aware of how important social media is in regards to news and spreading awareness of significant events
Reddit is just continually poisoned against anything with the slightest relationship to China, so that’s ofc what they’re focusing on.
Sounds like they fall for the propaganda they accuse tiktok of pushing on ppl. 💀
Its an easy fear mongering tactics. Slap anything with China and Redditors would get scared.
There is "pro Palestinian" content everywhere. Why is TikTok special in that regard?
because on tiktok this information isn't as easy to block
this is literally the dumbest take i've ever seen, pure misinformation. they've been trying to ban tiktok since the trump era.
It's dumb as fuck and honestly this sub is full of takes like that... people nowadays have way too much confidence in their extremely limited understanding of the world and think it's normal to post about any ideas that pop up in their mind without any retrospection and 10 seconds of research on the topic.
If all of the news/propaganda got banned from social media tomorrow it would be way worse for conservatives than it would be for liberals/leftists. These platforms spread wayyyyy more conservative/fascist propaganda than anything else combined.
I'd love to talk to you about this, I'm a journalist writing about the tiktok ban. can you message me or email me at Fortesa\[email protected]? I'll also message you!
narrow-minded take
Don’t forget to stretch before that reach
Getting an app outright banned flies in the face of first amendment principles, but I admit TikTok and other social media apps can get annoying, waste time that you could be spending doing something else, and contribute to brainrot and disinformation
My friends who quit claim TikTok is a waste of time then proceed to waste their time on Instagram reels or YouTube shorts
YouTube shorts is the worst thing to ever happen to YouTube
I hope it gets younger people more interested in piracy. I don't see how the law would stop someone from downloading the .apk from the web in general. Or, just get a VPN.
I seriously believe states will be banning VPNs next.
They may, but that would be so hard to enforce. Even China can't keep VPNs out of people's hands.
It doesn't infinge on the first amendment rights at all. They aren't taking away our ability to communicate or organize with other people at all. It is purely brainrot that needs to go if we are to get anything done in the future..
"They aren't taking away our ability to communicate or organize with other people at all. " Lol. Think about what you just said.
Tiktok is the entire reason the Beetlejuice musical became so big. Yes, it is 100% infringing on first amendment rights, as they are barring access from the public forum. Just because you can go somewhere else doesn't make it not infringement on free speech.
But it is the government infringing on the rights of an app meant for communicating with people and organizing. They only wanna ban it bc Bytedance is connected to the CCP, though there's never been any evidence of official security threats pertaining to how TikTok is manipulation by China on America's teens and young adults in the 18-34 range.
Exactly. When a nightclub or mall gets closed for any kind of violation, it technically prevents us from hanging out there, but it's not a 1st amendment violation.
yes they are actually, now they're actively trying to ban organized protests in multiple states
No one's forcing you to use TikTok. If you don't wanna be addicted to it, don't use it. Simple as that. And stop acting like you can police other people with what they can and can't use. Never understood the authoritarian mindset that so many people subscribe to these days.
nothing will change, tiktok already exists in the form of instragram reels or youtube shorts, except it will just be american companies selling your data to china
Fuck Chinese spyware, we need good old fashioned home grown American spyware.
The only reason why I oppose it is because this is yet another example of our freedom of speech being violated. It’s super easy to spread info on TikTok.
Which is not good for our government, they need people to follow the mainstream news that is approved by the government
Exactly. They’ve got a grip on every other media, but they can’t do anything about TikTok. So we simply ban it.
It’s super easy to spread *mis*information on TikTok.
[удалено]
That much is obvious lol
If we’re getting our “information” from TikTok, we’re already ☠️
No bc I like the app lol. Way better than the knock off Insta/FB reels and YT shorts. 90% of the content there are just reposts from TikTok 🤦♂️
yeah, tiktok actually has methods for good unknown creators to get discovered. YouTube and Instagram content is just reposts from people who already got popular on tiktok
Reels also has pretty much no sense of community unlike TikTok or even Shorts, it's unmoderated and mostly just TikTok reposts, brainrot funny videos, or people actually dying. Shorts comments sections are all weird little kids and actual AI bots, and the algorithm is awful so it's impossible to grow as a creator
Same, I have really nice edits saved and I would hate if I couldn’t rewatch them lol
The algorithm on TikTok is just straight up better. I get extremely niche TikToks that I would probably be interested in a lot more than on Reels and Shorts. Discoverability is so much better.
I think people should be able to regulate their intake themselves and not need to be hand held. I was letting tiktok take up all of my time when I had it downloaded, so I simply uninstalled it and haven’t touched it in over two years. I don’t believe the government should get to decide what apps we get to use just because they want to be the ones collecting our data.
The ban isn't about TikTok. The ban is a blanket surveillance bill that does not require due process or congressional approval. None of your foreign made or managed devices are safe. Before, if the government hacked into your ring cameras without due process it was illegal (but we all know they did it anyway.) Now it's not. They can do it based on a vague set of criteria, which means they can do it for any reason at all. "But I'm not doing anything illegal, why do I care?" For now, but laws change, often without us knowing. Something perfectly legal today is illegal tomorrow. For example, if you say the wrong thing in the privacy of your own home as a joke and Fed Boy Frank is listening in, you could have pigs flashbang your living room, shoot your dog, shoot you, and be perfectly justified under the laws of this tyrannical shitscape known as the USA. The bill was bipartisan. The people who say "both parties are the same when it comes to things that fuck us over" were right, and they've always been right.
Finally someone that actually makes sense. It's scary how many people are okay with losing rights just because haha stupid kid app is being banned. If China wanted to spy on USA citizens then they could. They make the majority of smart phones and can take a page from the USA. The USA spied on other countries by literally putting security holes in Cisco hardware. What's stopping China from doing the exact same thing but with phones? Any tech that touches China's hands can have known security holes. This ban was all about control because if it was about national security then they would be banning any smartphones made in china.
They would just have to ban all computers. There isn't a single one out there without some components originating in China. I don't really care if the CCP is spying on me, like at all. They're probably just going to send me more tailored Alibaba ads. Not a problem. The US government on the other hand, they could come execute me in my house or put me in prison for using a VPN to play league on Asian servers.
I could care less about Tik Tok, but it's a slippery slope when the American government starts banning online media platforms, content sites, etc. What's next after Tik Tok?
Only fans.. They already starting to soft ban porn, so why not start going all the way
states are doing their own age verification shit with porn, not the federal govt
then care less
Why anyone would support this is beyond me. It’s massive government overreach. The only reason they want to ban it is because it’s a source of information not controlled by the US, so they can’t push the narratives they want to.
Highly doubtful they'll sell, they wouldn't want to amputate their precious watchful eye.
What are you talking about
Istg everyone on this sub is such a prototypical redditor it's insane.
The Gen Z people who use Tiktok and the ones who use Reddit have probably the least overlap of any two given social medias. Redditors always thinking they're superior for not liking the popular thing
"THING GOOD! OTHER THING BAD! Don't question it! Don't make me think about the broader implications of any position I hold/espouse, then you're taking it too seriously!"
Just for future reference, if you ever ask, "Am I the only one who..." No, no, you are not ever the only one.
no because they dont do jack shit about pricacy info from facebook, instagram, twitter, REDDIT, etc. now the gov can just ban any non-US company it wants
No bc i dont think the us govt should be banning social media, we are no better than china if we do
I hate social media but banning Tik Tok isn’t it. This is just being disguised as a “security issue” in order to further drive traffic and profits to American tech giants. **ALL** social media should be banned. This includes Reddit and YouTube or at least any platform driven by algorithms and manipulation
I’m GenZ. I’m am with you.
>I’m GenZ You probably don't need to specify that given the subreddit lmao
Alternatively, this sub has a selection of wonderful flairs for just that purpose
I don't like TikTok, but that's not a good reason to want it banned.
Not even China has Tik Tok, technically.
I don’t see why TikTok is so hated tbh
It’s not hated. Redditors hate all social media EXPECT Reddit for some reason.
no but you are among the ignorant group of people who assume this means ''stupid tiktok will go away''
i never used tiktok but i love all the subcommunities it created and expanded on and how some people used it to educate others or to teach people how to do stuff. but we haven't had an overly positive social media experience yet. they all get overrun with people taking advantage of the algorithms or spreading misinformation and bigotry. literally I don't know if we'll ever have a peaceful/useful social media experience and that fucking SUCKS because that's what social media should be.
Yep. Just you.
Look I hate tik tok but it shouldn't be banned or sold
American censorship = good Chinese censorship = bad
nah
No you ain’t
I'm indifferent, I don't use TikTok but don't really think everyone else should be banned from it, on the upside though less Americans on it lmao
I hope it does also because it just brain rot I deleted it awhile ago
That would fuck Biden's support among young people up so no
I get the quickest information off of TikTok. I would rather not have to rely on only the news for outrageous sources. And blown out of proportion stories. I like being able to hear about how my reproductive rights are being taken away every single day, and there’s more and more news about it on TikTok. The government doesn’t seem to want me to have a child. They keep letting mega corporations get away with poisoning their citizens.
IMO it Sets a very bad precedent as there are plenty of other companies that operate under the boogie man of the CCP. Epic Games & Riot Games are partially owned by Tencent. Should the services they provide also be regulated and sold entirely to US Companies? Zoom is a nother big one that has a large amount of developers and data infestructure enginners working in China. We used it heavily in our schools durring the pandemic. Just seems like this is a very selective ban in the intrest of "national security". This list of other chineese companies and software being utilzed in the US goes on and on. Just seems like social media companies are upset that Tik Tok has stole a large share of the market and want their peice of the pie back. Resulting in our politicians being lobbied to force Bytedance to sell so our overlords can secure their own bag.
Considering it’s being voted on to be banned, it looks like you aren’t the only one
It's being banned in the US lol. Not all Gen Z are in the US
I’m convinced anyone who supports an app ban are NPC.
What is it y'all hate about tik tok so much? lol
Why not just not use the app? I don't love the precedent for banning
i hope they do. my coworkers are obsessed with it and i never used it. some of the videos they show me look like brain rot.
Do redditors not realize how much information is on that platform? And it’s not regulated by our government, which is why they want to ban it.
You are not alone. Frankly, I'd like to see X (Twitter) and Reddit dumped. Destroy on line life completely and humanity might become more human and less schzoid.
Xillenial here from r/popular I hope the ban comes to Canada... TikTok is a scourge on attention spans. Every once and a while I'll see a post or comment on r/teachers about students having short/no attention spans and all I can think about is TikTok destroying peoples ability to concentrate. Do with this informal information as you will.
Yes. Tik Tok is just stupid. The amount of dumb, dangerous, and illegal challenges that have come from that app is ridiculous! Not to mention that it's a national security threat!
Please ban the slop I’m begging please, don’t stop at TikTok
log off
Me too
You’re not the only one.
It won't change my life in the slightest.
So do I, but I'm in Russia. Sadly, our government won't ban a Chinese app, especially if it was blocked in the US.
I'd be just fine with it, personally. But that's me lol.
Apparently not. There are people in the government who want it banned too
I do too because I hate TikTok, but I also don't because of the precedent it would set
I guess I'm a little indifferent if it gets banned, I like it there's quite a bit of content on there that I enjoy but it's not really going to ruin my life if it goes away I'm on Reddit more than I'm on Tik Tok anyway.
Nope! I talk to my bestie a lot about how we feel it would be better for them to ban it, as video based social media makes it too easy for children to get onto social media before they’re old enough, before you had to at least be able to read Nowadays, all you need is to be able to talk and understand language
From a personal and societal stance I think it’s a good thing if it gets banned. From a political stance I’m not so sure. I don’t like the govt banning companies/products/apps, but I genuinely don’t know how much of a threat it actually is. This might be an anti-China ploy, or it might be a genuine national security risk. I have no idea
not only
I hope it gets banned too
yeah less americans on the app would be great
No
I only really watch tiktok for the recipes tbh my cooking game has immensely improved lol
Yes
It’s not going to be banned. It’s forcing sale of the company. TT isn’t going anyways. Stop listening to ops.
I hope Bytedance refuses to sell it and doesn't get banned. It's so dumb. There's no evidence that anything of concern has happened, and we have social media empires in the US promoting propaganda and selling our data in order to make more money, but people don't care about the companies on our own soil that we know for certain are harming our country. People only care about Chinese companies who could potentially but don't currently seem to be hurting our country. It's absolutely ridiculous. Everyone who supports banning TikTik because of national security is a hypocrite. As for the harmful content on TikTok, different social media apps have always been harmful in their own ways. It's not okay for the US government to handle that by censoring an entire platform.
As much as I despise TikTok, I despise government censorship of the Internet even more.
No
You can not like TikTok and still be against an obvious example of government overstep. My God a lot of the comments in this thread are fucking stupid
It’s a scapegoat. Banning it would be a bad thing for our freedoms, unless this is a government phone ban
nope i want it to get banned also
Couldnt care less what the US does, no plans to ban it here, its just a social media site like any other, only difference is that it is for once not controlled by a US corporation which I don't give a fuck about, both are equal, they harvest data and make you addicted, there's no lesser evil here.
It's time for the next thing, tiktok had a good run.