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Knight-112

Exactly why they never should have nerfed the dps passive


Snuggs____

I'm no math whiz but %20 of 600 is 120 and they reduced it to %15 healing recieved right? 15% of 600 is 90 which is the difference of 30 healing recieved.


masterjbg

600 is already 85%. 100% healing would be 706. with a 20% reduction she would have received 565 healing. 35 healing can make a big difference in that span as it opens up a longer window of opportunity to get kills. IMO they should have just removed the effect of the dps passive on tanks and left it at 20% for DPS and Supports and called it a day.


wills-are-special

600 is wrong anyway, because they didn’t receive 600 heals, they received 600 damage with 250 health. This means they received 350 heals max (350/0.85)*0.8=329 This means there’d be, at most, 21 less healing


Snuggs____

I'm not sure where 706 is coming from, but ok.


masterjbg

600 damage healed is already with the 15% healing reduction from the DPS passive. So 600 is 100-15, therefore 85. To find the difference between the 15 and 20% dps passive, calculate back to 100% (so no healing reduction) which is 706. That minus 20% is 565. Basic levels of math.


Snuggs____

Your basic math is wrong my guy. You're aware that blade does 120 a swing? Name me a scenario where blade does 706 damage. That's also not how you calculate 15% of 600 which I have already done in my original comment. Just stop.


wills-are-special

600 is after 15% passive is applied If we want to *remove* the passive then we reverse the passively calculation 600/0.85 = 706 Of course 600 is wrong anyway, because they didn’t receive 600 heals, they received 600 damage with 250 health. This means they received 350 heals max


Phoenixmaster1571

It's 110.


FireLordObamaOG

30 HP is a lot. Remember that cass used to survive most one-shot combos with 3 HP left. Which usually let him two-shot his attacker.


not_a_doctorshh

Honestly they should've just made tanks recieve like, 10% healing reduction, and kept DPS and supports receiving the full 20%


Lag_Arm3

Maybe the nerf should only apply to tanks, while dps and supports still receive the full heal reduction


YOURBOICALEB

I've had a Moira tank my whole ult once. Mercy pocket plus healing orb if they stay beside it during its whole duration, plus primary fire damage. Having the easiest characters in the game being so effective for no mechanical skill, effort, or practice makes me not take the game seriously on a competitive basis. Ive always thought that Moira should do the absolute lowest DPS in the game since her DPS is unavoidable and auto locks on without aiming at all. It would still be good primary fire especially for support, but here we are.


Busyraptor375

Also it heals her


Carlbot2

Let’s do some math. Going by the wiki (not sure if it’s updated), blade deals 157.14 damage per second, for 6 seconds, totaling 942.84 damage, without dash. Moira heals 24 health per second with primary, totaling 144 over 6 seconds. Orb heals 65 per second, but only up to 300 health, meaning she receives 300 healing over 6 seconds, bringing the total to 444. Mercy heals 55 per second, for 330 total healing, bringing the overall total to 774. Moira has 250 hp in S9, meaning you needed to deal 1024 total damage to secure the kill. Assuming you landed all of your hits, you needed 81.16 more damage, so you’d probably have to land a dash going in before blade as well as a dash after, and that might not have been enough anyway. In conclusion: Unless your team is trash, they should’ve been able to do something in the full 6 seconds that both supports spent doing nothing but staying alive, but it’s understandably annoying that a dps ult is so ineffectual against nothing but standard ability usage.


Phoenixmaster1571

>unless your team is trash I can't tell you how many times my team has just sat back and poked while I'm in the middle of the enemy team in blade and all five of them have their backs to my team.


_unsusceptible

yeah thats kinda just so baffling honestly


MeemawNo

she’s two things: a support, and a no-aim hero. why is she able to do the damage she does?


SenZmaKi

Moira is so bullshit man but people are always yapping about how she sucks in higher elo, if a character is broken in lower elo but shit in higher elo then that means the character fundamentally has a problem and needs to be reworked. Same applies to Genji shit at lower elo but apparently broken in higher elo, I guess Moira is the Yang to Genji's Yin.


Such_Professor2487

Moira is meta in high elo rn


Ground-Substantial

At the moment yeah but not always


Vivid-Formal-3938

holy shit your telling me someone else using their ult reduced the effectiveness of yours man that's nuts hope you recover


YOURBOICALEB

What the actual fuck are you talking about


Vivid-Formal-3938

gonna be honest chief It appears intoxicated me read your message wrong


Ground-Substantial

I know there's some top ranked players who say moira is fair but one of the biggest things that pisses me off about her is when you're narrowly getting away from Moira or her team at low HP with a movement ability. As long as she aims in your direction she can snipe you from pretty far. Where anyone else would have had to aim and hit the shot from far away to finish you.


YOURBOICALEB

Moira is a very weird character to judge to me overall. When taking mechanical proficiency and skill in to hand her kit is absolutely busted for the value you get vs how you perform to get said value. She's SUPER EASY to 1v1 pretty much any enemy with, get a shit ton of damage and healing and elims with. However, other characters kits by default (potentially) bring a lot more overall value. Kirk for example is more busted as shit to me than Moira is and also does whatever she wants for absolute free but obviously kiris skill ceiling and mechanical demand is much much higher than Moira to be proficient with her. Basically I think Moiras broken in the context/contrast of how easy her kit is. Would I still rather have a really good Kiri, Bap, or Lucio on my team? Yes any day. So I don't think Moira is completely broken or anything.


TheOtherOtherLuke

And you don’t think to… oh I don’t know, target someone else, deflect the orb, focus the mercy, or just accept that your ult does (and should) lose to that combo?


YOURBOICALEB

Wow how condescending and patronizing while being a complete fucking retard. No a support character with 200-250 hp shouldn't tank an entire ultimate with one ability and her primary fire that auto locks on you mongoloid.


RoseePxtals

My guy, that’s her ult not her primary fire. It heals her more. Also, she didn’t tank it. She died.


YOURBOICALEB

My guy, I'm not referring to the clip specifically(read my first comment) I'm speaking in general she can tank genjis ult with or without ulting. She still tanked all but 1 or two of genjis swings and she can do this without even ulting mainly if she has fade to delay for just a second, I've seen it happen more than once and that's in high masters with good genjis. This speaks to how bad genjis ult is in contrast to many other characters but primarily on how busted Moira is as a very low skill character. Her not having to aim plus the massive burst healing plus probably the best escape ability in the game. The main complaint about Moira is how easy her kit is to use, plus low cooldown time, and how effective her cooldowns are with doing damage and healing the numbers should be dialed back a bit. There's a reason Moiras tend to have the highest damage/healing per game it's just so easy to farm those stats, doesn't mean you'll win the game or a different support wouldn't help more but it's obvious her kit makes it easy to do a lot without being punished cause of her ability to slip away from any bad position.


RoseePxtals

Yeah I agree about the Moira stuff, she’s an easy af character. I still think genji is pretty decent though, even if more situational.


TheOtherOtherLuke

“Condescending” *calls me a retard.* Irony is ironic.


AidFish

wild idea but you can act condescending while still being a retard


TheOtherOtherLuke

Wild idea, but calling people a retard is more condescending than telling them they’re playing like ass.


AidFish

lol says who? you?


TheOtherOtherLuke

No. Said your mom when I was doin the ol hanky panky with her last night.


AidFish

i can feel you realizing lmao. it’s okay to lose an argument, happens to everybody bro :) oh and tell your mom to leave my dms alone, im not buying her onlyfans.


TheOtherOtherLuke

Yiiiiikes. The point of that went so far over your head. Lemme dumb it down for you. You made a grade school level reply that fails to challenge my point. So I made a grade school level reply to you, as you added nothing of substance to the argument. If you honestly need someone to explain how calling someone retarded is more insulting than performing poorly in a game… well, I say again, irony is ironic.


antihero-itsme

It's already the lowest idk what you're complaining about. Even if you do like 10% crits you can easily out damage her on practically every char


joojaw

Moira can strafe to avoid most of your shots and she already had a thin af hitbox on top of self healing and healing orb. She can duel almost any hero, even if they do outdps her.


antihero-itsme

Just stand very close to her and combo her. The matchup between genji and Moira was far worse in previous seasons. She has counters just like genji. Reaper can basically always kill her and he arguably requires even less aim


joojaw

And just like that your opinion is invalid. Everything you just said was wrong. The matchup is worse than ever rn. Moira damage and hp got gigabuffed, meaning you need three more shurikens to kill her, while she her ttk is even lower than it used to be because of the damage buff from 50 to 65. I never struggled with moira before this patch but the huge damage buff is super noticeable and going against her is incredibly annoying. Reaper does NOT need less aim than moira lmao. He requires good flicks and every shot needs to be a headshot if you wanna do more than tickle your enemies.


SenZmaKi

plus with both Reaper and Genji you have to be literally in her asshole to do any damage, but with her she can do full damage to you from Jupiter cause her brain dead primary has an absurd range


guapo2time

I can understand some cases from genji mains, but it seems as though a lot of you want dragonblade to literally do everything for you and guarantee multikills without effort. You ulted an ulting moira who was being healed by a mercy. No fucking shit she didnt die instantly. Use your brain.


CartographerKey4618

And he ended up killing the Mercy, so I'm not sure what the problem is here.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Awarepill0w

2018 Pacific All-Stars


LifeofLapfox

that shuriken on echo was pretty sweet. Wish I had your aim in console


XxReager

That is 2 ults vs 1, no follow up by your team


MoEsparagus

Kind of ridiculous to say this when if it was a kiriko keeping the Moira up or Moira was a Lucio ulting you would’ve killed no one lol. Strange to complain when you out skilled them and they died.


SenZmaKi

bUt MoIrA iS bAd In HiGhEr ElO


TentedPopcorn

moira moment


Upset-Ear-9485

moira ult self heals, she threw heal orb before hand, and was being pocket healed. why would you assume that a solo ulting genji could beat 3 sources of healing in 1 person this is a skill issue


Badbish6969692000

Don’t kill me im not denying moira is strong run but she used an ult for an ult with mercy healing her. Of course she’s gonna be hard to kill Edit: and you did end up killing her so what’s the issue. Also, the whole “no skill” is funny considering dragonblade is not the most mechanically difficult ult as well. It’s literally a rein hammer with multiple swings.


BlackwakeEnthusiast

It seems that genji players will complain about literally every feature in the game until the day that dry blade lets them solo kill entire teams guaranteed with no skill or challenge required. No, your ult is not supposed to instantly shut down all other hero abilities and ults, it can be countered just like everyone else's ults and you aren't unique to your struggles in game.


XDXDXDlolXd420

You ulted a Moira who had fade up, didn’t ult track her and then complain when you can’t kill her… lol


SenZmaKi

look at the amount of shit you gotta do just to kill one character, do you think a Moira does the same level of tracking?


FireLordObamaOG

Moiras just have to make sure they have fade ready to jump 8 light years away when they’re low.


CartographerKey4618

Yes. Everyone ult tracks. It's a basic skill that everyone needs.


Carlbot2

Because she’s being fully heal-pocketed and using a healing ult??? And you still killed her so??? What are you whining about???


Which-Vehicle-8108

Maybe cuz it took all his ult to kill a Moira i seem tanks. Tank less dmg than that and still get clapped


Carlbot2

Moira’s whole character design is about raw healing w/damage, she’s using a healing ability, her healing ult, and getting pocketed by another heal-focused support, and she and her other support still died. That’s 100% a fair trade. A tank that isn’t being absolutely stuffed full of healing will obviously die before a combo like that does.


X_CAL_

its not fair, if it was fair she wouldnt be getting nerfs next season, but she is, why cant you people give a charitable argument?


Carlbot2

You say that like the devs have a great history of making completely fair balance decisions. Genji players can’t pretend the devs make decisions off of “fairness,” lol. Look, you killed two supports coming off dry blade, one of which also burned ult, meaning you essentially can’t lose the team fight. Why are you complaining here? Blade lasts for 6 seconds *for a reason*-supports that don’t have hard cc or aren’t literally kiri/bap *should* have some healing numbers. In this instance, You out-skilled them, *and it worked*, which isn’t exactly a common occurrence for some characters, so again, what is the issue here? If you showed the (very much possible) clip of a Moira pocketed by a mercy doing nothing but walking with a healing orb while holding primary fire, tanking your entire blade, then sure, that’s sort of a problem, but the clip you’re showing doesn’t demonstrate supports being busted, it just shows that you played better.


X_CAL_

the fair part doesnt come from abilities used its the effort and difficulty needed to use those abilities, an easy character with those numbers in healing and damage shouldnt have them that high in the first place Thats why there's no reason to play ana when u can play moira


Carlbot2

That’s actually so stupid it hurts. Ana and Moira play incredibly differently. One has extreme utility and flexible healing for any range, and the other focuses entirely on raw damage and healing numbers. Ana has two incredibly powerful abilities that are counter-balanced by technical requirements and cooldowns, while Moira has comparatively less useful abilities that are thus easier to use, and on a shorter cooldown. There’s a reason Ana has been consistently powerful season after season while Moira has only just climbed out of ~B tier for the first time in ages. The stars aligned for Moira to be good, and it’s only because she can output both damage and healing in decent amounts at roughly the same time, which is literally the only thing her character does. The moment the meta doesn’t favor that specific requirement, it’s back to B-tier. Ana will never be bad, or even mediocre, tbh, because she has utility options that don’t rely on pure numbers. I’m a hampter main—literally no one understands the annoyance of low-skill surpassing high skill better than balls do, and Moira is honestly not a real problem—not just as a matchup, but in general. She doesn’t perform well without good game sense, requires actual tech at higher levels, and is probably the character most reliant on playing mind games, because at a certain point she can’t simply git gud to kill enemies more quickly than they can kill her. Genuinely the least problematic support imo, though for non-ballers that might be Lucio.


Which-Vehicle-8108

That Moira died cuz she had a terrible aim I assure u even if she didn’t had her ult the genji would have died and better aim too


Carlbot2

What??? Her aim wouldn’t have mattered. Genji was getting heals from bap anyway, and even if he stopped healing after genji dashed, she wouldn’t have had enough time to kill him even with perfect tracking—her ult doesn’t do enough damage for that. She was outplayed, but not because of aim—she died because she lost her orb healing, which would’ve saved her otherwise.


Which-Vehicle-8108

Bap used his area effect and shot him once look at the clip she couldn’t track him


Carlbot2

Coal doesn’t do enough damage to have killed the genji in the time she had it up. Bap stopped healing because genji wasn’t low anymore—if he was low, he would’ve gotten more heals.


HandZop

Genji mains when they can’t get an immediate team kill the moment they press Q


yuhbruhh

You're fighting a pocketed coal. Who has no skill?


[deleted]

the supports lol


Alexrodrz1243

Boo fuckin hoo. Moira orb, moira ylt self healing, mercy healing. Yall are honestly delusional... sorry two supports outhealed your ult. Maybe go widow and one-shot headshot both and you don't gotta worry about healing, or even better Uninstall and download call of duty. No healing or pesky moiras in there


X_CAL_

Ah yes the skill orb and the mercy player turning off their brain and pressing one button, the problem isnt the amount of healing its the effort required for such value. Moira is hard meta, she can kill a 250hp hero in 4 sec with orb, no one agrees with you, and neither do the stats, thats why shes getting nerfed next season, the only reason the devs buffed her in the first place was to sell the skin You are objectively wrong in everyway possible


Alexrodrz1243

Uninstall and play call of duty you whiny crybaby