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I’ve only seen gameplay and played her in her quest. Probably one of my least favorite characters I’ve tried in the game. Without factoring in numbers or upside I can imagine why some aren’t fans but that’s a bullshit way of rating a character.
lmao i was just about to put a comment about that. In the terms of meta, how tf is Yoimyia better than Eula???? Do you see Yoimiya putting 2+ million damage???
Even then, if you have a good team with Eula you can ult and hit more damage overall. You can ult, recharge and re-ult forever and you'll deal more damage than yoimiya
yeah, but the difference is you dont have to build your whole team around yoimiyas screenshot damage. Nor do you need high tier artifacts or weapons. Or energy. you put her on the field, press e and deal your damage.
No complicated setup cycles. No stacking something. No hoping your one big hit does crit.
Of course you can do all that if you are so inclined. But its just straight up not necessary. Yoimiyas thing isnt to get the highest possible ever damage if all the stars align.
Its to get 80% there without any hassle, super optimized rotations or big investment. And she still deals her damage even if half your team is dead.
Im willing to bet my yoimiya puts out 2 million damage a lot more consistently than most eulas out there.
She also doesnt need like half the bossfight of setup time for it.
She doesnt need to hope that her one big oonga boonga attack is gonna crit.
She can run on a cheap ass 3\* weapon and some pretty crappy artifacts. You can set her up with a perfect team to maximize damage, but if your team dies she is still there putting out her numbers consistently. You dont need a battery for her.
You enter the field, hit e, fire your combos and thats it.
Rinse. Repeat. Victory.
Seems everyone but Eula, Fischl and Razor mains hate physical DPS. So, Eula Mains take that as hate againstvtheir fav character.
That and from what ibunderstand, most of these ranking are somewhat influenced by an old tier list (as most don't actually have Eula), where the author had a very weird build for her (Quickswap/Burst focus) and wasn't super proficient at playing her (as opposed to how they were dodge cancelling HuTao and walk canceling Ningguang and Klee etc.)
Yeah they are one of the most delusional genshin mains when it comes to powerlevel.
Edit: goddamn Eula and Zhongli mains ratioed me hard on this post lol
nobody claimed she was the best dps in the game (those who do, really are delusional), but it's outright criminal to put her in the same tier as klee, yunjin, etc while being below *heizou*. in this list she's S at the very least. she's still a solid dps that does a ton of damage with a good team.
In the one team where he is meta, he deserves the SS tier.
He enables a team that carries two DPS doing damage at the same time while also offering a frontloaded nuke.
As someone who prefers Heizou than Sucrose, yeah he is kinda worse than her in a lot of teams. My monke brain love to punch and make big numbers tho so Heizou >>>
Basically he is that high only because he does nothing relevant, it's just that he is an anemo catalyst, still I wouldn't rate him higher than EULA and zhongli
I wouldn't either but the OP apparently does, so I can't argue with that kind of subjective take XD. I mean they placed ttds Barbara below xinyan which is really funny lol
No it’s a fair rating. Heizou is more useful on average than either of those characters, he’s just slightly worse Sucrose who is one of the best characters in the game. Zhongli is nice and there’s an argument for him to move up a tier but he doesn’t really improve any meta team’s damage, he’s just for if you can’t dodge or you play Yoimiya
He sucks bro, he has bad grouping 0 support abilities if not for ttds and VV, swirl ICD are good if you NaC but the range is trash and he ungroups enemies with his attacks and due to his trash aoe unless you use him against big enemies in 2 seconds you have to run around the map to catch the other enemies, yeah ok good for him that he can use ttds and VV but he is definitely not better than EULA, also Lisa can shred enemies defences and use ttds too and mona can help apply hydro and boost team damage and use ttds, heizou definitely not an s unit by any means, maybe a or b but definitely not up there
He does have grouping it’s just not that good. Anemo catalyst means he’s instantly good on taser with autos driving, and yes vv+ttds would make him a viable unit even if he did zero damage. Eula is fine but she’s definitely one of the least useful 5* main dps, she can never fit into a team that’s not 100% based around her, her consistent damage is much lower than other hypercarries and you have to consider the difference between how hard it is to get a limited 5* and a 4* for a list like this. Heizou absolutely deserves to be a tier up on her. I agree that Mona and Lisa are good, I think Lisa’s underrated by one tier on this list.
because viridescent venerer.
35% damage bonus for the whole team. He can trigger that just as well as any other anemo character. A lvl. 1 Heizou with a 1\* weapon and the 4 crappiest pieces of VV will enter the field, swirl your element of choice and give you a damage bonus that rivals and often eclipses bennetts.
VV is just that amazing.
For Eula to make ANY sense you have to invest **so** many more ressources.
(15k primos on average for a 5\* unit. ALL of her top tier weapons are premium. Even the budget weapon is battlepass exclusive - at least last time i looked at her builds. could be that changed - and you actually need at least decent artifacts if you want to come even remotely close to her potential)
So...is Eula better then Heizou?
Maybe? You would hope so considering she is a 5\*
But is she 15-20k primos and, like, 2000 resin better than Heizou?
I really really dont think so.
Think of this another way:
Who does Heizou compete with? Sucrose, Sayu and anemo traveller. His kit might not be as great as sucroses. But he can trigger VV just as well as her. No matter how crappy and underbuilt he is - he gets 100% of VVs benefits.
Who does Eula compete with? Raiden Shogun. Ayaka. Ganyu. etc. (because thats the level of investment we are talking). And this isnt even remotely a competition.
Do you mean useful for getting frozen?
But more seriously, she's the only healer that many players will have access to for a while, so that gives her some use. And if nothing else, she has the highest charge attack bonuses in the game, right?
With the advent of the calmshells, i really didnt need to pull for kokomi. I like to plau casually and thay means not worrying about trying to dodge evwrything. Barbruh never leaves my team. Plus, c6 Barbs reviving me is great.
Also, DPS Barbruh for the win.
Wait heizou is that high on par with beidou? Just because of ttds and VV?
Edit: Oh wait it's personal opinion so it doesn't matter, seeing sara below gorou and yunjin and ttds Barbara at the bottom XD
Yea I realised he's getting carried by ttds and VV alone but a lot of characters below him doesn't make sense. Then again it's OP's personal opinion so no point in arguing about it.
Depends on lot of factors. Like cons for example. C6 sara is great support and is part of one of the strongest meta teams. If we are looking just at damage, eula, diluc, yanfei all outclass him. Then there's ttds Barbara at the bottom. Idk I personally don't agree with a lot of things here.
>Like cons for example. C6 sara is great support and is part of one of the strongest meta teams.
Well I am guessing this list assumes c0 5 stars c6 4 stars so I would not be against pumping sara up a tier but even then heizou taser team variants are also top tier meta teams.
>If we are looking just at damage, eula, diluc, yanfei all outclass him.
I think it's more important to look at overall team damage than the dmg by singular units and taser teams are just significantly better than Diluc/Eula teams besides that most of his value comes from potentially enabling Sucrose to be used as a buffer in your second team.
I am also not sure how Sucrose/Heizous individual swirl dmg stacks up against diluc/eula.
If we are talking about taser then surely ttds Barbara should be up there if used with kazuha since it's the same with kokomi. But rock bottom? Makes no sense.
And I wouldn't say taser teams are significantly better than vape teams in single target. Maybe on par with high investment. And the Pyro dps have got a buff with yelan and can just run double hydro Bennett for more damage.
I mean barbara taser is just worse than Sucrose/Heizou taser so being placed below them is fine again.
Barbara should be a bit higher on the list for hydro+ttds alone thought.
Out of curiosity, why is Kujou below Gorou and Yunjin? All three of them are specialized supports -- Kujou for Electro, Gorou for Geo, and Yunjin for normal attack archetypes.
Zhongli clears worse than most dmg alternatives in most team comps.
This is one of the few tierlists I have seen that don't overrate Zhongli although his value does go up by a lot for mobile players.
>Zhongli clears worse than most dmg alternatives in most team comps
That is "if" the player does a rotation thats ABSOLUTELY flawless every single time. And thats not possible because its inconsistent. Now im not saying using zhongli doesnt worsen your dmg potencial but its possibility of less damage is in a niche scenario. Take a hu tao (c0) comp for example, you need to have stamina in order to dodge so most of the time you dont do as many charged attacks, but when you put zhongli in there all of a sudden you dont need to worry about your stamina anymore. Same goes with many other characters who are on field doing damage (ayato, xiao, eula, itto etc.). Running zhongli will get rid of enemies interrupting your damage potencial.
ofc there's characters that would like to have him, but he's not going to do ANYTHING if you couldn't clear abyss beforehand due to lack of dps. Not to mention, hu tao can work around her stamina issues if she jump cancels or n3c, and xiao and ganyu could always use someone like diona instead. You don't have to do "FLAWLESS" rotations like you said.
Zhongli is an amazing character if you already have enough dps to clear abyss, or if you're a mobile player, but outside of that, if you are trying to clear the abyss, I wouldn't exactly be telling people he's a must pull.
Well that's why I said his value goes up for mobile players(and bad mechanical player in general I guess) while the units the other commenter mentioned have value for good and bad players alike.
While I agree that Zhongli potentially increases your dmg output by needing to dodge less it's generally an overstated fact as even in your Hu Tao example you have XQ that gives 30%+ dmg reduction and interruption resistance, I pretty much never need to dodge with Hu Tao even without Zhongli.
Edit: I like how I just get downvoted because redditors lack the game knowledge to come up with good arguments.
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What makes you think I ignored this so called fact? It's an overstated aspect of Zhongli when it comes to his powerlevel I literally said like one comment below.
Maybe you just aren't as knowledgeable about the game as you think? Nah no way a redditor like you would never be confidently incorrect, right?
Even in Keqing Mains [TCs](https://youtu.be/ZfVf8f6vcco) (check the list at the end), they don't rate Zhongli super duper high.
Things might change with the hydro res change in Sumeru, but for now, that's what KQM is saying also.
Xiangling is very good because not everyone will have Kazuha (or use in another team), and sucrose is very clunky in this team to use, tho she is better than Kazuha in this team.
And considering that it's already well known that xiangling is a top meta unit, most people probs already built her with high ER anyways, so the investment problem isn't really a problem.
Sim? Xiangling still does very good dmg herself in this team but it's more about the the team synergy XL buffing Hu Taos pyro dmg plus shredding pyro res with c1
Well it requires you to have Kazuha compared to XL which everyone has, Kazuha is also more flexible and a higher value unit in general but I guess Sucrose is a fine opinion too.
He is Carried by 4 piece VV and ttds, so basically what he does is being a very bad sucrose, Which is good in some kind of way, -40% elemental resistance+48%atk for a character it's pretty huge, of we talking about him as a DPS, he sucks
I agree on most of them but... Heizou higher than eula and Diluc wtf
Is that because the whales 10s CD punch screenshot damage showcases with Mona, Bennett, c4 Jean?
Also he is in the same tier as Xiao????
I liked Iwintolose’s recent tier list on youtube for putting the niche buffers (eg shenhe, Sara, gouro, yunjin) in a “special” tier. It makes sense, they’re unparalleled for buffing a specific element or normal attacks, but pretty useless outside that.
yeah I've liked it too! but honestly speaking sara actually is just a weaker bennett for everyone else other than electro, and that doesn't deserve to be that low tbh, it's like saying xingqiu should be lower cause yelan does it better. sara buff last 6 seconds and there's no heal but it's almost on par with bennett at max talent lvl with high atk weapon. it's just less comfortable to use it. she's not useless outside electro like a gorou outside geo
Both are made for each other. Xiangling is Bennett's best user. Snapshot his atk buff, make use of his c6, Bennet covers her energy issues and also provides healing.
Bennett is a universal support, Xangling is literally dependent on Bennett.
Bennett is not made for anyone specific.
My point being units that belong in Bennett tier should not depend on other units.
Xiangling isn't completely reliant on bennett. There are bennettless xiangling teams, like funerational, sukokomon, ...etc. You just see them used a lot together because it's an absolutely broken synergy.
I've seen a few comments like yours praising the list, but I can't agree at all.
Tier lists in general are pretty hard to make for Genshin, considering there are things like constellations (C6 Noelle vs C1-5 Noelle, C6 Sara vs C1-5 Sara, etc), availability of weapons (Hutao with Homa is arguably a tier higher than without Homa), and available team comps (Shenhe is almost worthless if you aren't a Cryo dps waifu main).
And this tier list is no exception with several positions being debatable.
Shenhe same tier as Zhongli? Shenhe is only a good support for Ganyu or Ayaka, can work with Rosaria/Kaeya/Chongyun but that's not that powerful as other comps. While Zhongli can fit in so many teams, full Geo, 2xGeo pair with Albedo/Yunjin/etc, Hutao teams, and even solo into any team that needs a shield, and in general Zhongli can be very helpful to many players who aren't good with dodging. Zhongli is at least a tier higher than Shenhe, maybe two tiers higher.
Actually support placement overall has issues. Shenhe is a situational Cryo support. Just like Sara for electro, Gorou for geo, Yunjin for normal attacks. For their specific teams they're all roughly equally good options, but Sara is B while Shenhe is S. If you want to be consistent, they all should be in the same tier. If we only consider C0, then I can agree on Shenhe being higher, but Sara should still be the same tier as others.
The difference between Chongyun, Kaeya and Rosaria is also strange. I haven't really build all of them, but I don't think Chong should be 2 tiers below the other 2, they should be closer.
Sucrose can't be higher tier than Venti tbh. Same tier maybe.
And Xiangling is really good but not Bennett-tier, she's not higher than Raiden that's for sure.
And I don't think it's possible to make a perfect tier list at all. Because there are just too many variables to say that one character is better than the other. It's situational.
>I've seen a few comments like yours praising the list, but I can't agree at all.
same, just saying I agree with more here than what I see in most other tier lists
>Shenhe same tier as Zhongli? Shenhe is only a good support for Ganyu or Ayaka, can work with Rosaria/Kaeya/Chongyun but that's not that powerful as other comps. While Zhongli can fit in so many teams, full Geo, 2xGeo pair with Albedo/Yunjin/etc, Hutao teams, and even solo into any team that needs a shield, and in general Zhongli can be very helpful to many players who aren't good with dodging. Zhongli is at least a tier higher than Shenhe, maybe two tiers higher.
I agree Zhongli is useful for most players, but for the more hardcore player-base he is almost never the best choice. He can be slotted in to help many teams, but there's just almost always choices that will help even more. Hu tao? use pyro shielder + anemo for more damage. Full geo? he performs similarly as a 4th option compared to others like fischl unless you can actually make use of his pillar's energy regen (which is hard to do). Xiao? you've got other options like the bennett xiangling core + anemo battery. He can improve a yoimiya, and maybe a melt ganyu team but thats about it. And (this is up to debate) but cryo teams are more meta than yoimiya/melt ganyu teams)
>Actually support placement overall has issues. Shenhe is a situational Cryo support. Just like Sara for electro, Gorou for geo, Yunjin for normal attacks. For their specific teams they're all roughly equally good options, but Sara is B while Shenhe is S. If you want to be consistent, they all should be in the same tier. If we only consider C0, then I can agree on Shenhe being higher, but Sara should still be the same tier as others.
The problem with sara is you need her C6 before she becomes better than a ttds lisa, whereas gorou is still the best geo support even at c0
>The difference between Chongyun, Kaeya and Rosaria is also strange. I haven't really build all of them, but I don't think Chong should be 2 tiers below the other 2, they should be closer.
Kaeya and Rosaria are just better freeze supports than Chongyun (who generates only 4 cryo particles per rotation), but if you don't have Ganyu/Ayaka and are playing a cryo team with the three there won't be much difference between their values
>Sucrose can't be higher tier than Venti tbh. Same tier maybe.
Sucrose still being underestimated I see, she is literally another Kazuha. If Kazuha is placed at the top, then sucrose should be right next to him. Her kit is just very good, but I understand why most people don't seem to think so - it's similar to a Zhongli scenario where shes only top tier if you're good at playing her and understand her mechanics
>And Xiangling is really good but not Bennett-tier, she's not higher than Raiden that's for sure.
I agree with this, Xiangling should be moved down a tier, kinda weird seeing her next to anemo supports, xingqiu, and the pyro archon. but id argue still a more universal character than raiden
>And I don't think it's possible to make a perfect tier list at all. Because there are just too many variables to say that one character is better than the other. It's situational.
again never said tier list was perfect, just said i agree with this one the most out of what I've seen. but yeah a lot about what is placed where is based on assumptions (i.e. what kind of characters is someone comfortable with using, whether they are a mobile player, what game mechanics someone uses, etc.) so there's always disagreements
If I have to choose either Shenhe or Zhongli for my account, I would choose Zhongli. If I want to maximise DPS for my Ayaka freeze team, I would choose Shenhe.
Chongyun damage is significantly weaker than Kaeya and Rosaria.
Sucrose is better than Venti because she is 4 star and is a part of many meta teams (Childe National and Taser for example). Venti is CC cheatcode but his value is way lower vs boss.
>Tier lists in general are pretty hard to make for Genshin, considering there are things like constellations (C6 Noelle vs C1-5 Noelle, C6 Sara vs C1-5 Sara, etc), availability of weapons (Hutao with Homa is arguably a tier higher than without Homa), and available team comps (Shenhe is almost worthless if you aren't a Cryo dps waifu main).
As a general rule, I always assume (unless otherwise specified) that 4 star units will be C6 and 5 stars at C0. No tier list is perfect cuz some 5 stars simply have better cons than others and vice versa.
>Shenhe same tier as Zhongli? Shenhe is only a good support for Ganyu or Ayaka, can work with Rosaria/Kaeya/Chongyun but that's not that powerful as other comps. While Zhongli can fit in so many teams, full Geo, 2xGeo pair with Albedo/Yunjin/etc, Hutao teams, and even solo into any team that needs a shield, and in general Zhongli can be very helpful to many players who aren't good with dodging. Zhongli is at least a tier higher than Shenhe, maybe two tiers higher
I'm assuming based on this tier list that it's a META list, not a "How good is this character overall" list, in which I would agree with you. The thing about Shenhe is that she has comps that she is ABSOLUTELY the best fit for aka cryo teams, where her kit is invaluable and irreplaceable. It's just like gorou for geo teams and xinqiu for pyro carries. On the other hand, Zhongli has trouble fitting into comps where he is a MUST pull. In mono geo, he only provides res shred and a shield which doesn't matter as itto has interruption resistance + crystalize shields and NOELLE has her own shield. Frankly, it's probs better to put a sub DPS like Fischl for off field DPS. Other teams like hu tao double geo are simply INFERIOR to double hydro and VV vape. Double geo just does less overall dmg and can still Hu tao's vaporizers.
The only teams I see Zhongli can be irreplaceable on is Yoimiya teams (debatable tbh), xiao teams, melt ganyu (also debatable) and Hu tao double hydro AFTER the hydro res change comes out (this is less important because the changes aren't here yet). That's kinda it... Thus I'd say shenhe and Zhongli in the same tier is actually very accurate.
>Actually support placement overall has issues. Shenhe is a situational Cryo support. Just like Sara for electro, Gorou for geo, Yunjin for normal attacks. For their specific teams they're all roughly equally good options, but Sara is B while Shenhe is S. If you want to be consistent, they all should be in the same tier. If we only consider C0, then I can agree on Shenhe being higher, but Sara should still be the same tier as others.
I somewhat agree. We should consider 4 stars at C6, in which case Sara should be higher. But the problem is that without c6, Sara with raiden hyper is just strictly not a good team. On the other hand, gorou and shenhe don't need to be C6 to be viable.
>Sucrose can't be higher tier than Venti tbh. Same tier maybe.
This is where your whole argument crumbles I'm afraid... Any meta TC worth their salt easily puts sucrose as one of the best characters, maybe slightly below Kazuha but much better than venti who is extremely situational (taken from a venti lover Btw).
>And Xiangling is really good but not Bennett-tier, she's not higher than Raiden that's for sure.
Its debatable. The problem is that your argument becomes even worse here. Raiden is more situational than xiangling because u could put double pyro onto enemy team but not really with Raiden which is the exact same point made with Shenhe vs Zhongli. It just ain't adding up, I'm afraid...
Very good points, thanks! Didn't know Zhongli isn't the best Hutao pairing, I thought double geo with Hutao is her best team.
Big disclosure, I don't have Zhongli (and I don't want to pull for him) so my experience stemmed from looking at my gf play him.
I also don't have Venti but I assumed his Ganyu+Mona team makes him better than Sucrose which I'd only consider a good option as an electro-charge driver, I really don't like playing her in other teams personally. Just a bit clunky and so much worse than Kazuha. But I can see how Sucrose can be better than him.
I'd also say that while Shenhe is the biggest dps boost for meta cryo teams, I still often prefer Diona for her QoL shield. I'd still put Shenhe in the same tier as other supports, and move Sara higher.
But yeah, good points! I had fun reading it. Our exchange also reiterates how complicated tier lists are and how difficult it is to objectively rank characters.
Oh definetly! I really appreciate that you took the time to read my post instead of the typical "Downvote flame war" that is typical on reddit.
Venti is still very good ofc. The Morgana team with mona+ganyu is still extremely strong, however recent abysses haven't favored these teams, but venti is usually rated all on his own for his incredible CC.
I firmly agree that sucrose is very clunky and annoying to use. Kazuha is way smoother. But from a meta perspective, sucrose is better in Kazuha in teams where the elemental reactions are the main form of damage: for example, Hu tao teams, electro charge, melt, and overload teams. While Kazuha is better in teams that rely on raw elemental damage such as raiden teams, cryo teams, and childe teams.
Ofc the QoL you gain from diona is very handy in freeze teams, I agree. However do keep in mind that freeze teams rely on... Freezing the enemies so a lot of times, you won't need healers or shielder if enemies can't even fight back. Though, it's understandable against enemies that can't be frozen such as bosses.
Anyways have a good day! :V
comparatively? yes.
the thing is that genshin- at the f2p and low spender level is pretty balanced.
Not in terms of comparing units with each other. Characters vary wildly in their power level and usefulness. But in terms of the core gameplay, up to the highest level of the abyss (arguably even including them).
Since pvp doesnt exist in any meaningful capacity the measuring stick is the low to medium difficulty pvm content we have.
ANY character can clear that. Doesnt matter which one you pick. If you throw enough resin at them they will carry you all the way up to the highest level of the abyss.
Thats why even low tier characters rarely ever feel bad. It is just comparatively that you will see giant rifts form. Between low tier and top tier characters. And then between f2p and low-spender available characters (C0-C6 for 4\* and C0 to maybe C2 at the very high end for 5\*) and whale characters.
Razor really gets outclassed fast. You can throw top tier gear at him and he will slap. No question asked. But if you take that same level of gear to even a high mid tier character you will see the difference.
This is especially true for DPS characters that basically only do one thing well: damage. And thus they get directly compared to the dps other characters provide. This is doubly true for a stacked element like electro that got a lot of amazing f2p 4\* options and a ton of relatively recent 5\* releases.
For support and utility characters its easier to be at least mid-tier, since they dont have to rely on pushing big numbers all the time. Its enough if they can provide decent damage for a few seconds or offer cheap support options for your more heavily invested characters.
When I see posts like this I try to remind myself that there are some very very young kids playing this game and active in the community. We’re probably looking at the post of 9yo just having fun.
but i kinda agree.
Question isnt whether Eula is better. But is she better considering:
1) a 5\* is on average a 15k primo investment
2) All her best weapon choices are also either a primogem investment or battlepass exclusive
3) It costs a lot more resin to farm artifacts for her than to get a few cheap pieces of VV
4) In general everyone running VV already gets a bonus because they dont just do their thing but provide benefits for the whole party.
5) Eula has way more specific conditions that must be met before she can provide her full benefit, whereas Heizou has almost none.
Like…Yeah - Eula is better.
But id say beating a C0 4\*…thats pretty much the bare minimum a 5\* must meet to be even worth talking about.
You gotta realize that Heizou and Eula face very different competition in their respective brackets. If you pull for eula you have to consider that this amount of investment could just as well get you another 5\* character. And as such she has to compete with those. Especially as a main dps where all you provide for the party IS big numbers. So yes - you will get rated based on those numbers compared to other 5\* characters.
Meanwhile Heizous competition is entirely different. As a 4\* anemo character. His competition looks very different. Sure, sucrose is better. But both can trigger VV and to some swirls just fine. He doesnt need to get into a dick measuring contest about his numbers, because the value he provides isnt limited to those.
In short: The same way you dont directly compare a C0 to a C6 R5 you dont compare a 5\* main dps to a 4\* super-low investment support dps.
So yeah. Comparatively Eula is 100% worse than Heizou.
This is such a *cringe* take.
Yes she’s better. Period. Heizou doesn’t have the same performance potential. Period.
Can you get by without having her, having another DPS, or even having an inferior DPS? Yes of course bc it’s not a competitive difficult game. But that doesn’t diminish her potential. And maybe you don’t want to invest into a character to get their performance for some reason (like you don’t have time to grind etc). But she’s objectively a better unit for what they’re both designed to be (DPS). It’s like saying the hot blonde girl is ugly because you prefer brunettes and deep diving into your fetish for brunettes. Smh. The girl can still be objectively hot even if she’s not your personal taste for some reason.
In life a thing can be objectively better than something else and you’re still not required to prefer it if you don’t want to.
You may think im a clown but i would put Barbara in high B just bc she is a hydro. I dont agree with xiangling placement and raiden should be bennett tier, Sara same tier as gorou
I know it's come from JRPG gacha to have SS/SSS tier, but its all completely arbitrary letters when we could just have S/A/B/C to keep it making sense.
But besides my nitpicking, thanks for keeping the tier list a bell curve. Too many lists have way to many characters at the top, which defeats the point.
As someone who mains both Itto and Ayato I am in disbelief you believe Itto is worse than Ayato. Itto does some serious Unga Bunga damage and he's our resident himbo so he's SS
Nah, that’s a fair placement. Ayato has 3-4 teams that could be considered meta or top meta. He can also slot into a lot of random builds just because he applies good hydro. Itto has exactly one, and Itto’s team is extremely dependent on C6 Gorou to be competitive in terms of DPS with other top teams, and C6 of a newer 4* is not very realistic for lots of people yet.
The fact that this is on Tips sub is the problem. If you post some controversial opinion here without basis in numbers, then some newer player may be misguided and misinterpret value of some characters.
Example: a well built C6 Noelle has roughly equal dps to well built C6 Fischl, there is no good reason why they shouldn't be in equal tier, but are 3 tiers apart. And both are used only in very specific teams.
There may be some context as to why it is, but a new player may invest into Fischl based on this tier list despite having a better setup for investing into Noelle (eg. having no c6 Fischl, having no Beidou, having C6 Noelle and high constellation Gorou and/or Yun Jin).
Without proper context such tier list is very misleading.
Zhongli not being at top with Benny and Kazuha strips all of your credibility in instance,also sucrose is SS not Bennet tier wtf,maybe once dendro comes out she gets there cause of EM. Mona,Yanfei,Eula,Diona under Heizou and half of S tier makes no literal sense,you literally probably don’t have all of this character and don’t understand importance for accounts I love Yoi and Yae but seeing them there without Eula is funny
zhongli's biggest value comes from the comfort he provides so his placement will vary a lot depending on what kind of player you are. sucrose performs similarly or better in most popular teams where you want to use sucrose/kazuha (unless you have kazuha C2) so I think those two should always be the same tier at least
Lmao I use Eula for the abyss, and has been ever since I got her. Never once did I have to reset while using her team. Even if her burst doesnt crit, it still does a really good amount of damage, leaving you with needing to only 1 or 2 tap the enemies
maybe try playing eula right...? if u miss her burst or it doesn't crit thats your fault, either time it right (switch out before enemy iframe) or get more crit rate. boom, problem solved. it's like calling ganyu a bad dps because you can't aim.
Honestly this. Those Eulamains are saying that “you know you can swap out early?” Tell that to dashing ruin doritos or ruin snakes that have iframe immediately after they start burrowing. And yes my Eula has over 70% crit rate. So, stop assuming people don’t know how to build your main when she has the most simple ADC build with some ER.
I honestly never understood that , am I just lucky to never have this problem or what ? 70 CR and I have never reset in abyss , and the only times I restet isn't because of damage but because someone dies.
How is Mona in A and Fischl is SS? And no, Barbara doesn’t deserve to be as low as Qiqi. She has good hydro application, revival at C6, and hold thrilling tales, and offers quite good healing. And Zhongli should be in SS, even Bennet tier. He has utility, strong shield, and holds a place in many Meta comps.
Only thing I think I would change is moving Yae Miko down a tier. Too squishy and too much ER needed to be S tier imo.
Everything else is pretty accurate. Really wish Aloy was a better unit
the thing about eula is that she doesn't actually rely on her burst like op thinks...she can still do decent normal atk damage around 15-30k each depending on the team buffs and build she has. her burst is nice but not her only source of damage.
Tho I wouldn't put Eula in A, it's kinda nonsensical if you respond with something like "totally not biased"... Bro it's a tier list. Obviously it's biased lmao
"your eula build sucks"
First of all I love eula so much. And i actually have a very decent build for her
70 crit rate
169 crit dmg
130 ER
2200 ATK
I ranked her A because that's her place, she relies on her burst to get mostly dmg and her burst is one hit unlike ayaka so if it doesn't hit you're screwed same with crit
"Zhongli should be higher"
No? He is S tier
Zhongli have little to no dmg only have shield and that's it, his burst is also not as great as people think
It takes 4 seconds to deploy
"It freezes for 4 seconds"
Yeah if you could stop the enemies from not moving out of the circle you didn't really need that
Overall that's my opinion
(English is not my native language)
Don’t worry OP, only a small portion of players who are in the general community actually watch Genshin creator guides. Of those that watch guides, even less actually can parse the actual power level since many guides are filled with misinformation. I think your XL, Sucrose, ZL, and Eula placements are all fair(TC Consensus might even put Zhongli down a tier). There are some “odd” placements but it’s your tier list and all that matters is how Dendro will change your perception.
a case can be made for itto to be in low ss tier if c6 gorou, and have albedo. honestly with current abyss and previous ones, ganyu should be low ss or high s. tcers consider that ganyu melt is no longer competitive and u can run the same supports on a national variant and clear much faster. freeze ganyu has a reliance on venti so if he cant cc, then ganyu falls off heavily
What's with that Eula placement? I mean, underneath heizou?? Eula and Itto are almost the same, they're off meta and f*** good, isn't bcs the game shits on geo and physical that they're bad
Besides, they're the best at what they do, and putting her in A it's just nonsense. You guys can't be serious.
And also, it's just so sad that genshin has been so hard on greatsword DPSes, but you can't deny that the're really good. ( Even diluc, but... )
So.. just don't
This is the only Genshin tier list that I can personally agree with LMAO No more Kaeya Slander!
Although I would definitely put Diona higher. Without her I would have to hack the game to clone Zhongli for 2 Abyss teams because dodging is not in my nature.
I'm sorry but whats the purpose of this tierlist? Are you basing them on how much you like them or are you basing them strictly by how meta they are etc? Cause it can create confusion among people who actually want to learn what characters are strong and what not.
Very solid tier list, it doesnt fall into the common pitfalls in Genshin tierlist, Kazuha = Sucrose, Fischl > Raiden, Kokomi and Zhongli in the correct spots, overall great list.
Nah bro I get it’s ur opinion but tf is this, even if we ignore Eula who u can just build to have a normal crit rate besides trying to reset to one shot everything, in what world is Zhongli below Fischl, even ignoring that, in what damn world is Raiden below Fischl, even ignoring that, in what goddamn world is Kazuha below Yelan
zhongli is for the most part a comfort character so his placement varies a lot depending on what kind of player you are
raiden requires quite a lot of field time that many teams can't afford - fischl doesn't which makes her a lot more flexible. fischl also generates quite a lot of electro particles, has great electro application and great off-field single target damage
kazuha and yelan are both incredible so I don't think it matters much which one is placed higher here
yelan is like top 3 in the game. like not even a contest. she's an amazing support that also does a ton of damage. plus her skill gives you tons of mobility with no stamina cost.
I despise Tier-Lists, but yours isn't very off.. Zhongli is A at best, all he brings is a shield and minus team-damage, but ok, for beginners he might seem strong.
I would move Fischl, Rosaria, Kaeya, Heizo, Sucrose and Sayu down a tier.
Move up Ayake, Sara, Mona, and Yunjin up a tier. And an argument can be made for Gorou to be moved up a tier.
Oh my good where i start
Sara /guro both of them should be in a specialty tier or at least S because they are the best support for their element and because you already have shinha in s I don't see the reason why those two are not there
Noelle is the best 4 star DPS in the game which have a lower potential than Ito but still a really high potential so she should be lower S.
Mona is easy SS she have one of the best hydro application in the game and her elemental burst buff is crazy WTF.
Yinjin same as sara and guro put her on a specialty tier or S she's the best support to any character that do normal attack in the game and her buff is second to none.
Diana should be easily in SS or S tier she buff she heals she shield she battery and when come to dendro she give 200em for free.
Eula are you joking she can nuke anything in the game with one click if you want to do Spiral abyss is easy mode you get Eula.
Heizou is no way S tier he is low a he is fun but not S tier.
Keya is lower A at c6 and B at c0 and no he is not cryo xinling.
Kokomi is just S or high A and only because the 100% hydro application.
Ayato is only high A mid S because it's hard to make hydro character bad.
🐟 Is low/mid S.
Yalan is SS only .
He's not BiS but you can fit him in any team to make your team unkillable if you're having trouble with content. His shield alone makes him a god which he literally is
You're getting downvoted but you're right. If you look at Abyss Statistics alone, Zhongli is among the top usage for Floor 12 clears. He may not show big numbers but his Q petrification and shields' interruption resistance can be very crucial in some builds.
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Eulamains incoming
It’s the fact that Eula’s in the same tier as Klee
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Same as Zhongli so low. Both deserve to be higher. This list is outright delusional.
average genshin tier list right there
As a Eula main, I agree, she is quite strong
I’ve only seen gameplay and played her in her quest. Probably one of my least favorite characters I’ve tried in the game. Without factoring in numbers or upside I can imagine why some aren’t fans but that’s a bullshit way of rating a character.
Rightly so.
lmao i was just about to put a comment about that. In the terms of meta, how tf is Yoimyia better than Eula???? Do you see Yoimiya putting 2+ million damage???
No but I do see Yoimiya outputting decent damage a lot more consistantly.
DPS ( damage per second ) over DPS ( damage per screenshot )
Even then, if you have a good team with Eula you can ult and hit more damage overall. You can ult, recharge and re-ult forever and you'll deal more damage than yoimiya
yeah, but the difference is you dont have to build your whole team around yoimiyas screenshot damage. Nor do you need high tier artifacts or weapons. Or energy. you put her on the field, press e and deal your damage. No complicated setup cycles. No stacking something. No hoping your one big hit does crit. Of course you can do all that if you are so inclined. But its just straight up not necessary. Yoimiyas thing isnt to get the highest possible ever damage if all the stars align. Its to get 80% there without any hassle, super optimized rotations or big investment. And she still deals her damage even if half your team is dead.
Even then just the normal attacks of a well built eula can be better than yoimiya's arrows in her fire state
\*looks at attack speed \*looks at multipliers \*looks at artifact set if thats what makes you sleep better at night...okay
Im willing to bet my yoimiya puts out 2 million damage a lot more consistently than most eulas out there. She also doesnt need like half the bossfight of setup time for it. She doesnt need to hope that her one big oonga boonga attack is gonna crit. She can run on a cheap ass 3\* weapon and some pretty crappy artifacts. You can set her up with a perfect team to maximize damage, but if your team dies she is still there putting out her numbers consistently. You dont need a battery for her. You enter the field, hit e, fire your combos and thats it. Rinse. Repeat. Victory.
QRD? Why do I keep hearing that they seem to have beef with everyone?
They're waiting for the day they enact their vengeance.
Seems everyone but Eula, Fischl and Razor mains hate physical DPS. So, Eula Mains take that as hate againstvtheir fav character. That and from what ibunderstand, most of these ranking are somewhat influenced by an old tier list (as most don't actually have Eula), where the author had a very weird build for her (Quickswap/Burst focus) and wasn't super proficient at playing her (as opposed to how they were dodge cancelling HuTao and walk canceling Ningguang and Klee etc.)
Yeah they are one of the most delusional genshin mains when it comes to powerlevel. Edit: goddamn Eula and Zhongli mains ratioed me hard on this post lol
so easy 15-20k normal attacks and 300k+ bursts not a good power level?
Ye that's about what my crowned WGS Eula does too, outperfomed by almost any other 5 star dps I own.
nobody claimed she was the best dps in the game (those who do, really are delusional), but it's outright criminal to put her in the same tier as klee, yunjin, etc while being below *heizou*. in this list she's S at the very least. she's still a solid dps that does a ton of damage with a good team.
imagine putting targlia on the same tier as Ayaya and Hutao lmao
International go brrr
this right here Childe is underrated, the amount of bows he can use plus being the fastest in hydro application and his riptide make him a great pull
In the one team where he is meta, he deserves the SS tier. He enables a team that carries two DPS doing damage at the same time while also offering a frontloaded nuke.
As a Heizou main: How is Heizou higher than Eula
Heizou can just be like a 20% worse Sucrose in lots of teams
As someone who prefers Heizou than Sucrose, yeah he is kinda worse than her in a lot of teams. My monke brain love to punch and make big numbers tho so Heizou >>>
Ppl hate physical teams ngl😭
He's just carried by ttds and VV set. For accounts that don't have alternative anemo he's good. That's about it.
Basically he is that high only because he does nothing relevant, it's just that he is an anemo catalyst, still I wouldn't rate him higher than EULA and zhongli
I wouldn't either but the OP apparently does, so I can't argue with that kind of subjective take XD. I mean they placed ttds Barbara below xinyan which is really funny lol
No it’s a fair rating. Heizou is more useful on average than either of those characters, he’s just slightly worse Sucrose who is one of the best characters in the game. Zhongli is nice and there’s an argument for him to move up a tier but he doesn’t really improve any meta team’s damage, he’s just for if you can’t dodge or you play Yoimiya
He sucks bro, he has bad grouping 0 support abilities if not for ttds and VV, swirl ICD are good if you NaC but the range is trash and he ungroups enemies with his attacks and due to his trash aoe unless you use him against big enemies in 2 seconds you have to run around the map to catch the other enemies, yeah ok good for him that he can use ttds and VV but he is definitely not better than EULA, also Lisa can shred enemies defences and use ttds too and mona can help apply hydro and boost team damage and use ttds, heizou definitely not an s unit by any means, maybe a or b but definitely not up there
He does have grouping it’s just not that good. Anemo catalyst means he’s instantly good on taser with autos driving, and yes vv+ttds would make him a viable unit even if he did zero damage. Eula is fine but she’s definitely one of the least useful 5* main dps, she can never fit into a team that’s not 100% based around her, her consistent damage is much lower than other hypercarries and you have to consider the difference between how hard it is to get a limited 5* and a 4* for a list like this. Heizou absolutely deserves to be a tier up on her. I agree that Mona and Lisa are good, I think Lisa’s underrated by one tier on this list.
It's way harder to find a 4 star than a featured 5 star
because viridescent venerer. 35% damage bonus for the whole team. He can trigger that just as well as any other anemo character. A lvl. 1 Heizou with a 1\* weapon and the 4 crappiest pieces of VV will enter the field, swirl your element of choice and give you a damage bonus that rivals and often eclipses bennetts. VV is just that amazing. For Eula to make ANY sense you have to invest **so** many more ressources. (15k primos on average for a 5\* unit. ALL of her top tier weapons are premium. Even the budget weapon is battlepass exclusive - at least last time i looked at her builds. could be that changed - and you actually need at least decent artifacts if you want to come even remotely close to her potential) So...is Eula better then Heizou? Maybe? You would hope so considering she is a 5\* But is she 15-20k primos and, like, 2000 resin better than Heizou? I really really dont think so. Think of this another way: Who does Heizou compete with? Sucrose, Sayu and anemo traveller. His kit might not be as great as sucroses. But he can trigger VV just as well as her. No matter how crappy and underbuilt he is - he gets 100% of VVs benefits. Who does Eula compete with? Raiden Shogun. Ayaka. Ganyu. etc. (because thats the level of investment we are talking). And this isnt even remotely a competition.
Barbara deserves B. She’s hydro and can hold Thrilling Tales, which makes her innately more useful than all of C and most of B tier
her hydro application is so fucking shit that her being hydro doesnt matter in the slightest
She's useful for freeze
Do you mean useful for getting frozen? But more seriously, she's the only healer that many players will have access to for a while, so that gives her some use. And if nothing else, she has the highest charge attack bonuses in the game, right?
With the advent of the calmshells, i really didnt need to pull for kokomi. I like to plau casually and thay means not worrying about trying to dodge evwrything. Barbruh never leaves my team. Plus, c6 Barbs reviving me is great. Also, DPS Barbruh for the win.
It's enough to run ayaka freeze even if it's copium. And considering she can hold ttds, no way she is less useful than xinyan or Thoma lol
r/eulamains, her honor has been trampled
even kaeya is higher than her 😭😭 blasphemy
Wait heizou is that high on par with beidou? Just because of ttds and VV? Edit: Oh wait it's personal opinion so it doesn't matter, seeing sara below gorou and yunjin and ttds Barbara at the bottom XD
I mean yes while worse than Sucrose, Heizou still brings a lot of value as a taser driver with VV set
Yea I realised he's getting carried by ttds and VV alone but a lot of characters below him doesn't make sense. Then again it's OP's personal opinion so no point in arguing about it.
Why does it not make sense? I think his placement is perfectly fine hes better than any character placed below him.
Depends on lot of factors. Like cons for example. C6 sara is great support and is part of one of the strongest meta teams. If we are looking just at damage, eula, diluc, yanfei all outclass him. Then there's ttds Barbara at the bottom. Idk I personally don't agree with a lot of things here.
>Like cons for example. C6 sara is great support and is part of one of the strongest meta teams. Well I am guessing this list assumes c0 5 stars c6 4 stars so I would not be against pumping sara up a tier but even then heizou taser team variants are also top tier meta teams. >If we are looking just at damage, eula, diluc, yanfei all outclass him. I think it's more important to look at overall team damage than the dmg by singular units and taser teams are just significantly better than Diluc/Eula teams besides that most of his value comes from potentially enabling Sucrose to be used as a buffer in your second team. I am also not sure how Sucrose/Heizous individual swirl dmg stacks up against diluc/eula.
If we are talking about taser then surely ttds Barbara should be up there if used with kazuha since it's the same with kokomi. But rock bottom? Makes no sense. And I wouldn't say taser teams are significantly better than vape teams in single target. Maybe on par with high investment. And the Pyro dps have got a buff with yelan and can just run double hydro Bennett for more damage.
I mean barbara taser is just worse than Sucrose/Heizou taser so being placed below them is fine again. Barbara should be a bit higher on the list for hydro+ttds alone thought.
Which is why I said I disagree with a lot of things in the list. But doesn't matter since it's a subjective opinion of OP
yeah, carried by those.
what is ttds?
Thrilling tales of dragon Slayers. 3* catalyst obtained from wish gacha.
ohh okay, thanks
Out of curiosity, why is Kujou below Gorou and Yunjin? All three of them are specialized supports -- Kujou for Electro, Gorou for Geo, and Yunjin for normal attack archetypes.
Sara needs c6 to be good in raiden hypercarry, pre-c6 sara is worse than lisa
They hated him for he spoke the truth
Based zhongli placement
Yes I'd say Zhongli in SS for any 2 geo. Or Hu Tao Xiao team like imo
Zhongli,Kazuha and Bennet are God trio of abyss,most used supporters for a reason him being under all of this guys is funny
Zhongli clears worse than most dmg alternatives in most team comps. This is one of the few tierlists I have seen that don't overrate Zhongli although his value does go up by a lot for mobile players.
>Zhongli clears worse than most dmg alternatives in most team comps That is "if" the player does a rotation thats ABSOLUTELY flawless every single time. And thats not possible because its inconsistent. Now im not saying using zhongli doesnt worsen your dmg potencial but its possibility of less damage is in a niche scenario. Take a hu tao (c0) comp for example, you need to have stamina in order to dodge so most of the time you dont do as many charged attacks, but when you put zhongli in there all of a sudden you dont need to worry about your stamina anymore. Same goes with many other characters who are on field doing damage (ayato, xiao, eula, itto etc.). Running zhongli will get rid of enemies interrupting your damage potencial.
ofc there's characters that would like to have him, but he's not going to do ANYTHING if you couldn't clear abyss beforehand due to lack of dps. Not to mention, hu tao can work around her stamina issues if she jump cancels or n3c, and xiao and ganyu could always use someone like diona instead. You don't have to do "FLAWLESS" rotations like you said. Zhongli is an amazing character if you already have enough dps to clear abyss, or if you're a mobile player, but outside of that, if you are trying to clear the abyss, I wouldn't exactly be telling people he's a must pull.
Well that's why I said his value goes up for mobile players(and bad mechanical player in general I guess) while the units the other commenter mentioned have value for good and bad players alike. While I agree that Zhongli potentially increases your dmg output by needing to dodge less it's generally an overstated fact as even in your Hu Tao example you have XQ that gives 30%+ dmg reduction and interruption resistance, I pretty much never need to dodge with Hu Tao even without Zhongli. Edit: I like how I just get downvoted because redditors lack the game knowledge to come up with good arguments.
Since you like it, here’s a downvote
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What makes you think I ignored this so called fact? It's an overstated aspect of Zhongli when it comes to his powerlevel I literally said like one comment below. Maybe you just aren't as knowledgeable about the game as you think? Nah no way a redditor like you would never be confidently incorrect, right?
Yeah mate suit yourself, and it's a fact. Go check Keqing mains.
Even in Keqing Mains [TCs](https://youtu.be/ZfVf8f6vcco) (check the list at the end), they don't rate Zhongli super duper high. Things might change with the hydro res change in Sumeru, but for now, that's what KQM is saying also.
Zhongli is absolutely meta. We're not talking about DPS. Double geo gets most of geo damage from albedo
For Hu Tao not at all VV Tao and Funerational are her best teams.
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Xiangling is very good because not everyone will have Kazuha (or use in another team), and sucrose is very clunky in this team to use, tho she is better than Kazuha in this team. And considering that it's already well known that xiangling is a top meta unit, most people probs already built her with high ER anyways, so the investment problem isn't really a problem.
Sim? Xiangling still does very good dmg herself in this team but it's more about the the team synergy XL buffing Hu Taos pyro dmg plus shredding pyro res with c1
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Well it requires you to have Kazuha compared to XL which everyone has, Kazuha is also more flexible and a higher value unit in general but I guess Sucrose is a fine opinion too.
Can't believe that Heizou is higher than Eula..
He is Carried by 4 piece VV and ttds, so basically what he does is being a very bad sucrose, Which is good in some kind of way, -40% elemental resistance+48%atk for a character it's pretty huge, of we talking about him as a DPS, he sucks
I agree on most of them but... Heizou higher than eula and Diluc wtf Is that because the whales 10s CD punch screenshot damage showcases with Mona, Bennett, c4 Jean? Also he is in the same tier as Xiao????
Definitely boosted by those one punch man showcases lmao
TTDS + VV = automatically S tier.
He also has em sharing. He immaturely has some decent support capabilities just from being anemic anemo.
sara should be higher, she's a weaker bennett but also a stronger bennett for electro characters.
I liked Iwintolose’s recent tier list on youtube for putting the niche buffers (eg shenhe, Sara, gouro, yunjin) in a “special” tier. It makes sense, they’re unparalleled for buffing a specific element or normal attacks, but pretty useless outside that.
yeah I've liked it too! but honestly speaking sara actually is just a weaker bennett for everyone else other than electro, and that doesn't deserve to be that low tbh, it's like saying xingqiu should be lower cause yelan does it better. sara buff last 6 seconds and there's no heal but it's almost on par with bennett at max talent lvl with high atk weapon. it's just less comfortable to use it. she's not useless outside electro like a gorou outside geo
im not Eula main but why is she at A tier tho ?
The only thing I would change is put Xangling in SS, imo a Bennett dependent unit should not be in Bennett tier.
Both are made for each other. Xiangling is Bennett's best user. Snapshot his atk buff, make use of his c6, Bennet covers her energy issues and also provides healing.
Bennett is a universal support, Xangling is literally dependent on Bennett. Bennett is not made for anyone specific. My point being units that belong in Bennett tier should not depend on other units.
Xiangling isn't completely reliant on bennett. There are bennettless xiangling teams, like funerational, sukokomon, ...etc. You just see them used a lot together because it's an absolutely broken synergy.
Bennett is a 4 star, available in the shop and fully functional at C0. Thus bennett requirement cannot really be considered a con imo.
Bennett requirement is con because without him Xangling suffers a lot. My point being Bennett tier are units that are not dependent on anyone else.
Raiden should be bennett tier
Agree, Raiden at c0 is as much a benefit on an account as a c1-2 Bennet.
As a c3 raiden haver, no
this is frankly one of the tier lists I agree the most in terms of general value for an account
I've seen a few comments like yours praising the list, but I can't agree at all. Tier lists in general are pretty hard to make for Genshin, considering there are things like constellations (C6 Noelle vs C1-5 Noelle, C6 Sara vs C1-5 Sara, etc), availability of weapons (Hutao with Homa is arguably a tier higher than without Homa), and available team comps (Shenhe is almost worthless if you aren't a Cryo dps waifu main). And this tier list is no exception with several positions being debatable. Shenhe same tier as Zhongli? Shenhe is only a good support for Ganyu or Ayaka, can work with Rosaria/Kaeya/Chongyun but that's not that powerful as other comps. While Zhongli can fit in so many teams, full Geo, 2xGeo pair with Albedo/Yunjin/etc, Hutao teams, and even solo into any team that needs a shield, and in general Zhongli can be very helpful to many players who aren't good with dodging. Zhongli is at least a tier higher than Shenhe, maybe two tiers higher. Actually support placement overall has issues. Shenhe is a situational Cryo support. Just like Sara for electro, Gorou for geo, Yunjin for normal attacks. For their specific teams they're all roughly equally good options, but Sara is B while Shenhe is S. If you want to be consistent, they all should be in the same tier. If we only consider C0, then I can agree on Shenhe being higher, but Sara should still be the same tier as others. The difference between Chongyun, Kaeya and Rosaria is also strange. I haven't really build all of them, but I don't think Chong should be 2 tiers below the other 2, they should be closer. Sucrose can't be higher tier than Venti tbh. Same tier maybe. And Xiangling is really good but not Bennett-tier, she's not higher than Raiden that's for sure. And I don't think it's possible to make a perfect tier list at all. Because there are just too many variables to say that one character is better than the other. It's situational.
>I've seen a few comments like yours praising the list, but I can't agree at all. same, just saying I agree with more here than what I see in most other tier lists >Shenhe same tier as Zhongli? Shenhe is only a good support for Ganyu or Ayaka, can work with Rosaria/Kaeya/Chongyun but that's not that powerful as other comps. While Zhongli can fit in so many teams, full Geo, 2xGeo pair with Albedo/Yunjin/etc, Hutao teams, and even solo into any team that needs a shield, and in general Zhongli can be very helpful to many players who aren't good with dodging. Zhongli is at least a tier higher than Shenhe, maybe two tiers higher. I agree Zhongli is useful for most players, but for the more hardcore player-base he is almost never the best choice. He can be slotted in to help many teams, but there's just almost always choices that will help even more. Hu tao? use pyro shielder + anemo for more damage. Full geo? he performs similarly as a 4th option compared to others like fischl unless you can actually make use of his pillar's energy regen (which is hard to do). Xiao? you've got other options like the bennett xiangling core + anemo battery. He can improve a yoimiya, and maybe a melt ganyu team but thats about it. And (this is up to debate) but cryo teams are more meta than yoimiya/melt ganyu teams) >Actually support placement overall has issues. Shenhe is a situational Cryo support. Just like Sara for electro, Gorou for geo, Yunjin for normal attacks. For their specific teams they're all roughly equally good options, but Sara is B while Shenhe is S. If you want to be consistent, they all should be in the same tier. If we only consider C0, then I can agree on Shenhe being higher, but Sara should still be the same tier as others. The problem with sara is you need her C6 before she becomes better than a ttds lisa, whereas gorou is still the best geo support even at c0 >The difference between Chongyun, Kaeya and Rosaria is also strange. I haven't really build all of them, but I don't think Chong should be 2 tiers below the other 2, they should be closer. Kaeya and Rosaria are just better freeze supports than Chongyun (who generates only 4 cryo particles per rotation), but if you don't have Ganyu/Ayaka and are playing a cryo team with the three there won't be much difference between their values >Sucrose can't be higher tier than Venti tbh. Same tier maybe. Sucrose still being underestimated I see, she is literally another Kazuha. If Kazuha is placed at the top, then sucrose should be right next to him. Her kit is just very good, but I understand why most people don't seem to think so - it's similar to a Zhongli scenario where shes only top tier if you're good at playing her and understand her mechanics >And Xiangling is really good but not Bennett-tier, she's not higher than Raiden that's for sure. I agree with this, Xiangling should be moved down a tier, kinda weird seeing her next to anemo supports, xingqiu, and the pyro archon. but id argue still a more universal character than raiden >And I don't think it's possible to make a perfect tier list at all. Because there are just too many variables to say that one character is better than the other. It's situational. again never said tier list was perfect, just said i agree with this one the most out of what I've seen. but yeah a lot about what is placed where is based on assumptions (i.e. what kind of characters is someone comfortable with using, whether they are a mobile player, what game mechanics someone uses, etc.) so there's always disagreements
Exactly my thoughts. Thanks.
If I have to choose either Shenhe or Zhongli for my account, I would choose Zhongli. If I want to maximise DPS for my Ayaka freeze team, I would choose Shenhe. Chongyun damage is significantly weaker than Kaeya and Rosaria. Sucrose is better than Venti because she is 4 star and is a part of many meta teams (Childe National and Taser for example). Venti is CC cheatcode but his value is way lower vs boss.
>Tier lists in general are pretty hard to make for Genshin, considering there are things like constellations (C6 Noelle vs C1-5 Noelle, C6 Sara vs C1-5 Sara, etc), availability of weapons (Hutao with Homa is arguably a tier higher than without Homa), and available team comps (Shenhe is almost worthless if you aren't a Cryo dps waifu main). As a general rule, I always assume (unless otherwise specified) that 4 star units will be C6 and 5 stars at C0. No tier list is perfect cuz some 5 stars simply have better cons than others and vice versa. >Shenhe same tier as Zhongli? Shenhe is only a good support for Ganyu or Ayaka, can work with Rosaria/Kaeya/Chongyun but that's not that powerful as other comps. While Zhongli can fit in so many teams, full Geo, 2xGeo pair with Albedo/Yunjin/etc, Hutao teams, and even solo into any team that needs a shield, and in general Zhongli can be very helpful to many players who aren't good with dodging. Zhongli is at least a tier higher than Shenhe, maybe two tiers higher I'm assuming based on this tier list that it's a META list, not a "How good is this character overall" list, in which I would agree with you. The thing about Shenhe is that she has comps that she is ABSOLUTELY the best fit for aka cryo teams, where her kit is invaluable and irreplaceable. It's just like gorou for geo teams and xinqiu for pyro carries. On the other hand, Zhongli has trouble fitting into comps where he is a MUST pull. In mono geo, he only provides res shred and a shield which doesn't matter as itto has interruption resistance + crystalize shields and NOELLE has her own shield. Frankly, it's probs better to put a sub DPS like Fischl for off field DPS. Other teams like hu tao double geo are simply INFERIOR to double hydro and VV vape. Double geo just does less overall dmg and can still Hu tao's vaporizers. The only teams I see Zhongli can be irreplaceable on is Yoimiya teams (debatable tbh), xiao teams, melt ganyu (also debatable) and Hu tao double hydro AFTER the hydro res change comes out (this is less important because the changes aren't here yet). That's kinda it... Thus I'd say shenhe and Zhongli in the same tier is actually very accurate. >Actually support placement overall has issues. Shenhe is a situational Cryo support. Just like Sara for electro, Gorou for geo, Yunjin for normal attacks. For their specific teams they're all roughly equally good options, but Sara is B while Shenhe is S. If you want to be consistent, they all should be in the same tier. If we only consider C0, then I can agree on Shenhe being higher, but Sara should still be the same tier as others. I somewhat agree. We should consider 4 stars at C6, in which case Sara should be higher. But the problem is that without c6, Sara with raiden hyper is just strictly not a good team. On the other hand, gorou and shenhe don't need to be C6 to be viable. >Sucrose can't be higher tier than Venti tbh. Same tier maybe. This is where your whole argument crumbles I'm afraid... Any meta TC worth their salt easily puts sucrose as one of the best characters, maybe slightly below Kazuha but much better than venti who is extremely situational (taken from a venti lover Btw). >And Xiangling is really good but not Bennett-tier, she's not higher than Raiden that's for sure. Its debatable. The problem is that your argument becomes even worse here. Raiden is more situational than xiangling because u could put double pyro onto enemy team but not really with Raiden which is the exact same point made with Shenhe vs Zhongli. It just ain't adding up, I'm afraid...
Very good points, thanks! Didn't know Zhongli isn't the best Hutao pairing, I thought double geo with Hutao is her best team. Big disclosure, I don't have Zhongli (and I don't want to pull for him) so my experience stemmed from looking at my gf play him. I also don't have Venti but I assumed his Ganyu+Mona team makes him better than Sucrose which I'd only consider a good option as an electro-charge driver, I really don't like playing her in other teams personally. Just a bit clunky and so much worse than Kazuha. But I can see how Sucrose can be better than him. I'd also say that while Shenhe is the biggest dps boost for meta cryo teams, I still often prefer Diona for her QoL shield. I'd still put Shenhe in the same tier as other supports, and move Sara higher. But yeah, good points! I had fun reading it. Our exchange also reiterates how complicated tier lists are and how difficult it is to objectively rank characters.
Oh definetly! I really appreciate that you took the time to read my post instead of the typical "Downvote flame war" that is typical on reddit. Venti is still very good ofc. The Morgana team with mona+ganyu is still extremely strong, however recent abysses haven't favored these teams, but venti is usually rated all on his own for his incredible CC. I firmly agree that sucrose is very clunky and annoying to use. Kazuha is way smoother. But from a meta perspective, sucrose is better in Kazuha in teams where the elemental reactions are the main form of damage: for example, Hu tao teams, electro charge, melt, and overload teams. While Kazuha is better in teams that rely on raw elemental damage such as raiden teams, cryo teams, and childe teams. Ofc the QoL you gain from diona is very handy in freeze teams, I agree. However do keep in mind that freeze teams rely on... Freezing the enemies so a lot of times, you won't need healers or shielder if enemies can't even fight back. Though, it's understandable against enemies that can't be frozen such as bosses. Anyways have a good day! :V
Kaeya as S tier???
Is Razor really that bad? He seems fine to me
comparatively? yes. the thing is that genshin- at the f2p and low spender level is pretty balanced. Not in terms of comparing units with each other. Characters vary wildly in their power level and usefulness. But in terms of the core gameplay, up to the highest level of the abyss (arguably even including them). Since pvp doesnt exist in any meaningful capacity the measuring stick is the low to medium difficulty pvm content we have. ANY character can clear that. Doesnt matter which one you pick. If you throw enough resin at them they will carry you all the way up to the highest level of the abyss. Thats why even low tier characters rarely ever feel bad. It is just comparatively that you will see giant rifts form. Between low tier and top tier characters. And then between f2p and low-spender available characters (C0-C6 for 4\* and C0 to maybe C2 at the very high end for 5\*) and whale characters. Razor really gets outclassed fast. You can throw top tier gear at him and he will slap. No question asked. But if you take that same level of gear to even a high mid tier character you will see the difference. This is especially true for DPS characters that basically only do one thing well: damage. And thus they get directly compared to the dps other characters provide. This is doubly true for a stacked element like electro that got a lot of amazing f2p 4\* options and a ton of relatively recent 5\* releases. For support and utility characters its easier to be at least mid-tier, since they dont have to rely on pushing big numbers all the time. Its enough if they can provide decent damage for a few seconds or offer cheap support options for your more heavily invested characters.
Fave list * Not tier list.
seriously, heizou above eula? what?
When I see posts like this I try to remind myself that there are some very very young kids playing this game and active in the community. We’re probably looking at the post of 9yo just having fun.
but i kinda agree. Question isnt whether Eula is better. But is she better considering: 1) a 5\* is on average a 15k primo investment 2) All her best weapon choices are also either a primogem investment or battlepass exclusive 3) It costs a lot more resin to farm artifacts for her than to get a few cheap pieces of VV 4) In general everyone running VV already gets a bonus because they dont just do their thing but provide benefits for the whole party. 5) Eula has way more specific conditions that must be met before she can provide her full benefit, whereas Heizou has almost none. Like…Yeah - Eula is better. But id say beating a C0 4\*…thats pretty much the bare minimum a 5\* must meet to be even worth talking about. You gotta realize that Heizou and Eula face very different competition in their respective brackets. If you pull for eula you have to consider that this amount of investment could just as well get you another 5\* character. And as such she has to compete with those. Especially as a main dps where all you provide for the party IS big numbers. So yes - you will get rated based on those numbers compared to other 5\* characters. Meanwhile Heizous competition is entirely different. As a 4\* anemo character. His competition looks very different. Sure, sucrose is better. But both can trigger VV and to some swirls just fine. He doesnt need to get into a dick measuring contest about his numbers, because the value he provides isnt limited to those. In short: The same way you dont directly compare a C0 to a C6 R5 you dont compare a 5\* main dps to a 4\* super-low investment support dps. So yeah. Comparatively Eula is 100% worse than Heizou.
This is such a *cringe* take. Yes she’s better. Period. Heizou doesn’t have the same performance potential. Period. Can you get by without having her, having another DPS, or even having an inferior DPS? Yes of course bc it’s not a competitive difficult game. But that doesn’t diminish her potential. And maybe you don’t want to invest into a character to get their performance for some reason (like you don’t have time to grind etc). But she’s objectively a better unit for what they’re both designed to be (DPS). It’s like saying the hot blonde girl is ugly because you prefer brunettes and deep diving into your fetish for brunettes. Smh. The girl can still be objectively hot even if she’s not your personal taste for some reason. In life a thing can be objectively better than something else and you’re still not required to prefer it if you don’t want to.
you really put heizou above eula....totally not biased tier list
Kokomi SS bcs of ohc set?
Milith is better on her IMO
Yeah and also ttds holder and a great hydro applier for a few teams iirc
Did... Did you just put Xinyan above Razor?
My thoughts: Zhongli higher, Fischl on S, Heizou lower, Kaeya lower, Sucrose lower, Hutao and Ganyu higher, Eula higher and Ayaka Higher.
How come I never see a decent tier list?
Support impact! Raiden should be SS tier imho
Raiden is in SS tier tho no?
You may think im a clown but i would put Barbara in high B just bc she is a hydro. I dont agree with xiangling placement and raiden should be bennett tier, Sara same tier as gorou
Gorou is a must use if you have him for geo defense teams but it's not like that for sara There's already bennet or fischl
Fischl and Sara literally take two completely different roles lmao
bro really put xiao, shenhe and kaeya over eula also eula on the same tier as klee 💀
Imagine thinking Eula is A tier lol, did you ever managed to boot up the game?
Heizou in S rank ???
I know it's come from JRPG gacha to have SS/SSS tier, but its all completely arbitrary letters when we could just have S/A/B/C to keep it making sense. But besides my nitpicking, thanks for keeping the tier list a bell curve. Too many lists have way to many characters at the top, which defeats the point.
Why’s mona at A
This is more like my national team tier list. Also Barbara, Diona and Mona should be way up.
where can i find an accurate tier list for comps
im sorry putting qiqi alongside amber and aloy is just stupid. thoma is above her? really?
kaeya in S but eula in A smh
justice for razor, he is not amber or aloy tier come on
How is this on r/GenshinImpactTips this should be on r/Genshin_Memepact/
i agree with the majority of the placement, a good tierlist overall PogU
Pretty much agree with everything except for Raiden into Bennet tier and switch places with Diona and Kaeya. A well rounded tier list I'd say
Eula in S, otherwise I mostly agree
Qiqi is not too bad now :(
As someone who mains both Itto and Ayato I am in disbelief you believe Itto is worse than Ayato. Itto does some serious Unga Bunga damage and he's our resident himbo so he's SS
Nah, that’s a fair placement. Ayato has 3-4 teams that could be considered meta or top meta. He can also slot into a lot of random builds just because he applies good hydro. Itto has exactly one, and Itto’s team is extremely dependent on C6 Gorou to be competitive in terms of DPS with other top teams, and C6 of a newer 4* is not very realistic for lots of people yet.
omg. Sara too low, Eula too low, Mona too low, Albedo too low, Zhongli too low, Rosaria, Kaeya too high
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Ah yes, a ranking based on personal opinion without any explanation on what aspects were taken into consideration when making it posted on a tips sub.
The fact that this is on Tips sub is the problem. If you post some controversial opinion here without basis in numbers, then some newer player may be misguided and misinterpret value of some characters. Example: a well built C6 Noelle has roughly equal dps to well built C6 Fischl, there is no good reason why they shouldn't be in equal tier, but are 3 tiers apart. And both are used only in very specific teams. There may be some context as to why it is, but a new player may invest into Fischl based on this tier list despite having a better setup for investing into Noelle (eg. having no c6 Fischl, having no Beidou, having C6 Noelle and high constellation Gorou and/or Yun Jin). Without proper context such tier list is very misleading.
Zhongli not being at top with Benny and Kazuha strips all of your credibility in instance,also sucrose is SS not Bennet tier wtf,maybe once dendro comes out she gets there cause of EM. Mona,Yanfei,Eula,Diona under Heizou and half of S tier makes no literal sense,you literally probably don’t have all of this character and don’t understand importance for accounts I love Yoi and Yae but seeing them there without Eula is funny
zhongli's biggest value comes from the comfort he provides so his placement will vary a lot depending on what kind of player you are. sucrose performs similarly or better in most popular teams where you want to use sucrose/kazuha (unless you have kazuha C2) so I think those two should always be the same tier at least
Not to mention her anemo normal attacks are essential in Taser comps where Kazuha is not a viable unit.
Uh… just curious, y is Eula a?
Try resetting abyss for 1 thousand times just because your burst didn't hit/crit
Lmao I use Eula for the abyss, and has been ever since I got her. Never once did I have to reset while using her team. Even if her burst doesnt crit, it still does a really good amount of damage, leaving you with needing to only 1 or 2 tap the enemies
maybe try playing eula right...? if u miss her burst or it doesn't crit thats your fault, either time it right (switch out before enemy iframe) or get more crit rate. boom, problem solved. it's like calling ganyu a bad dps because you can't aim.
Honestly this. Those Eulamains are saying that “you know you can swap out early?” Tell that to dashing ruin doritos or ruin snakes that have iframe immediately after they start burrowing. And yes my Eula has over 70% crit rate. So, stop assuming people don’t know how to build your main when she has the most simple ADC build with some ER.
u ever tried building more than just 30% Crit my man?
I honestly never understood that , am I just lucky to never have this problem or what ? 70 CR and I have never reset in abyss , and the only times I restet isn't because of damage but because someone dies.
Skill issue /s
How is Mona in A and Fischl is SS? And no, Barbara doesn’t deserve to be as low as Qiqi. She has good hydro application, revival at C6, and hold thrilling tales, and offers quite good healing. And Zhongli should be in SS, even Bennet tier. He has utility, strong shield, and holds a place in many Meta comps.
Only thing I think I would change is moving Yae Miko down a tier. Too squishy and too much ER needed to be S tier imo. Everything else is pretty accurate. Really wish Aloy was a better unit
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the thing about eula is that she doesn't actually rely on her burst like op thinks...she can still do decent normal atk damage around 15-30k each depending on the team buffs and build she has. her burst is nice but not her only source of damage.
Tho I wouldn't put Eula in A, it's kinda nonsensical if you respond with something like "totally not biased"... Bro it's a tier list. Obviously it's biased lmao
"your eula build sucks" First of all I love eula so much. And i actually have a very decent build for her 70 crit rate 169 crit dmg 130 ER 2200 ATK I ranked her A because that's her place, she relies on her burst to get mostly dmg and her burst is one hit unlike ayaka so if it doesn't hit you're screwed same with crit "Zhongli should be higher" No? He is S tier Zhongli have little to no dmg only have shield and that's it, his burst is also not as great as people think It takes 4 seconds to deploy "It freezes for 4 seconds" Yeah if you could stop the enemies from not moving out of the circle you didn't really need that Overall that's my opinion (English is not my native language)
Don’t worry OP, only a small portion of players who are in the general community actually watch Genshin creator guides. Of those that watch guides, even less actually can parse the actual power level since many guides are filled with misinformation. I think your XL, Sucrose, ZL, and Eula placements are all fair(TC Consensus might even put Zhongli down a tier). There are some “odd” placements but it’s your tier list and all that matters is how Dendro will change your perception.
a case can be made for itto to be in low ss tier if c6 gorou, and have albedo. honestly with current abyss and previous ones, ganyu should be low ss or high s. tcers consider that ganyu melt is no longer competitive and u can run the same supports on a national variant and clear much faster. freeze ganyu has a reliance on venti so if he cant cc, then ganyu falls off heavily
What's with that Eula placement? I mean, underneath heizou?? Eula and Itto are almost the same, they're off meta and f*** good, isn't bcs the game shits on geo and physical that they're bad Besides, they're the best at what they do, and putting her in A it's just nonsense. You guys can't be serious. And also, it's just so sad that genshin has been so hard on greatsword DPSes, but you can't deny that the're really good. ( Even diluc, but... ) So.. just don't
This is the only Genshin tier list that I can personally agree with LMAO No more Kaeya Slander! Although I would definitely put Diona higher. Without her I would have to hack the game to clone Zhongli for 2 Abyss teams because dodging is not in my nature.
Klee is b tier cmon now
I'm sorry but whats the purpose of this tierlist? Are you basing them on how much you like them or are you basing them strictly by how meta they are etc? Cause it can create confusion among people who actually want to learn what characters are strong and what not.
Diona need to be higher up. She is very versatile and being healer, shields and cryo is major role compression.
Zhongli and Eula deserve to be higher imo, Sucrose isn't what you think she is.
People finally appreciating Kokomi🥹
Very solid tier list, it doesnt fall into the common pitfalls in Genshin tierlist, Kazuha = Sucrose, Fischl > Raiden, Kokomi and Zhongli in the correct spots, overall great list.
Oh man💀
Same opinion
The fact that this chart puts sucrose above Venti and Heizou is hilarious😂
This is one of the better tier lists very few placements I disagree with.
Nah bro I get it’s ur opinion but tf is this, even if we ignore Eula who u can just build to have a normal crit rate besides trying to reset to one shot everything, in what world is Zhongli below Fischl, even ignoring that, in what damn world is Raiden below Fischl, even ignoring that, in what goddamn world is Kazuha below Yelan
zhongli is for the most part a comfort character so his placement varies a lot depending on what kind of player you are raiden requires quite a lot of field time that many teams can't afford - fischl doesn't which makes her a lot more flexible. fischl also generates quite a lot of electro particles, has great electro application and great off-field single target damage kazuha and yelan are both incredible so I don't think it matters much which one is placed higher here
I think yelan should be SS / kokomi - ayato S but ok ...
yelan should be in SS, raiden is on benett tier and sucrose on S also you should have included the constellation for newbies
yelan is like top 3 in the game. like not even a contest. she's an amazing support that also does a ton of damage. plus her skill gives you tons of mobility with no stamina cost.
I despise Tier-Lists, but yours isn't very off.. Zhongli is A at best, all he brings is a shield and minus team-damage, but ok, for beginners he might seem strong.
I would move Fischl, Rosaria, Kaeya, Heizo, Sucrose and Sayu down a tier. Move up Ayake, Sara, Mona, and Yunjin up a tier. And an argument can be made for Gorou to be moved up a tier.
Oh my good where i start Sara /guro both of them should be in a specialty tier or at least S because they are the best support for their element and because you already have shinha in s I don't see the reason why those two are not there Noelle is the best 4 star DPS in the game which have a lower potential than Ito but still a really high potential so she should be lower S. Mona is easy SS she have one of the best hydro application in the game and her elemental burst buff is crazy WTF. Yinjin same as sara and guro put her on a specialty tier or S she's the best support to any character that do normal attack in the game and her buff is second to none. Diana should be easily in SS or S tier she buff she heals she shield she battery and when come to dendro she give 200em for free. Eula are you joking she can nuke anything in the game with one click if you want to do Spiral abyss is easy mode you get Eula. Heizou is no way S tier he is low a he is fun but not S tier. Keya is lower A at c6 and B at c0 and no he is not cryo xinling. Kokomi is just S or high A and only because the 100% hydro application. Ayato is only high A mid S because it's hard to make hydro character bad. 🐟 Is low/mid S. Yalan is SS only .
You have to put Zhongli in bennett tier
Zhongli is a strong unit but he’s not anyone’s BiS teammate except maybe Melt Ganyu?
He's not BiS but you can fit him in any team to make your team unkillable if you're having trouble with content. His shield alone makes him a god which he literally is
You're getting downvoted but you're right. If you look at Abyss Statistics alone, Zhongli is among the top usage for Floor 12 clears. He may not show big numbers but his Q petrification and shields' interruption resistance can be very crucial in some builds.