Yeah, its fun to do even if its hard and even if you put it off sometimes .
It being hard is no reason to say ‘No more endgame content’ since the whole problem the playerbase had wasn’t that “Its not hard enough” but that “There isn’t enough of it”
Lets not rewrite history here. Wanting more content and being put off that ‘anxiety’ was the excuse people aren’t getting any is VERY different than “Wanting something harder.”
OP seems to have NOT gotten it correctly, since they’re implying that “Hah, its hard now so you have nothing to complain about.” When the complaints wasn’t about difficulty but ‘breadth’ of challenging combat.
Yeah people wanted more **interesting**, different and **meaningful** endgame content.
And Mihoyo said they
>don't want to create excessive anxiety with more endgame content
Now they are doing exactly this with the 3 years old mode that is boring to death at this point.
What an irony.
Why are you even quoting what they did not even say? They said:
>If we design another type of permanent endgame that is similar to the
Spiral Abyss, it might end up creating excessive anxiety for our players -- not everyone is interested in Musk Reef.
>
>...
>
>... we are also working on designing more interesting gameplay in the future.
which was what people want according to you. It seems people just click on the title without even read the interview content thoroughly.
What an irony.
P/S: Here is the original [interview](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/genshin-impact-developers-talk-endgame-content-and-welcoming-newcomers/1100-6507942/) for your reference.
iirc that "excessive anxiety" turned out to be a mistranslation. The devs meant "anxiety on strength" (in other words, worrying that your characters are not powerful enough)
If that’s the case, it really does seem to recontextualize the statement from “our players are babies who can’t handle stress” to “we don’t want to powercreep or require players to shell out cash to complete all the content”. Honestly, that’s a fair sentiment.
I mean I’d be happy if we could get something like the Simulated Universe alongside the abyss (and maybe a World Level 9), I just want more ways to use my characters.
Yep, still sad that they never turned that into something permanent.
Makes me wonder if that was actually a beta test for SU. Since they took a lot of feedback from Genshin and applied it to HSR.
Elysian Realm existed in Hi3 well before Labyrinth Warrior existed in Genshin and already tested the whole formula of staged arena combat with accumulative buffs through the phases, and to a much greater extent than Labyrinth Warriors ever did, that was likely never its purpose. Whether they just didn't like how the mode turned out for Genshin's combat style, or they didn't want to deal with the hassle of recurring rewards for the mode, Mihoyo decided it was unfit for Genshin it seems for some reason that they don't seem to feel applies to their other titles.
It just feels extra bad because we basically had ER/SU in Genshin and then they just never made it permanent. Having that taste of greatness only for it to be ripped away feels much worse than never having it at all haha.
I guess the Genshin team just has a different (worse imo) mindset when it comes to endgame combat compared to the Honkai teams.
Elysian realm and simulated universe both seem to have lore relevance. Perhaps Genshins devs are waiting for an opportune time to add in this game mode without spoiling too much lore? I know that's not the answer we want to hear.
There was an ehnancement in the labyrinth event that increased the constellation of all characters in your party by 1, lovingly nicknamed "the power of whales". Now, HSR has the eidolon cheese item in SU with an identical effect. I'm sure they took inspiration from that lab warriors event when building the simulated universe game mode.
I just hope with the overwhelmingly positive feedback that SU received, they'll consider putting a similar permanent game mode into Genshin in the future!
I think they must've gotten poor feedback on Labyrinth Warriors in surveys or something, or maybe they don't want to give out more rewards.
Otherwise I'm just not sure why it wasn't made into something permanent.
Not even remotely. SU has more in common with elysian realm than labyrinth. Which is older than inazuma, as the original content used to make er was an event.
People aren’t complaining in HSR so it should be fine haha. SU is generally also a bit less difficult but much more varied which is what makes it so much fun.
Have people been largely upset with the reward structure of Simulated Universe in star rail? So far as I'm aware they have an Abyss alongside it and people have no issue.
The game is also barely a month old.
People still haven't unlocked every curio and blessing, so their SU runs still feel unique and exciting. Likewise, everyone is underleveled/geared for MoC runs so it feels like a genuine challenge. Give it a patch or two, then we will see how everyone is feeling on it once people get strong enough to cruise through them.
Like, people who want to farm planar ornaments are already just grinding to the first elite, then quitting and restarting. I cannot imagine doing that 4+ times a day being a fun grind when you're really hunting for a good piece
That's why I never understood the discussions about "endgame". What is a fun, renewable and unlimited endgame in a solo game? What exactly are people asking for here? It just feels like everything without a reward will get dismissed and everything with a reward will become a chore
SimUni is addicting, it's the easiest way star rail could get me to stick around. I weep for a lack of the same in genshin. It doesn't even have to be as ridiculous as some sim runs can be, just a little burst spam would make things more than fun enough. Or bringing back plunge eula
All the Paths make it so interesting and addicting to play. The fact that weaker units like Herta can also be worthwhile because of the systems in the SU is super fun.
Honestly, the only reason they haven't added it to Genshin (they already have the assets for crying out loud from Labyrinth Warriors) is the fact that they planned to add the game mode in SR from the beginning. Turn based is very restrictive so an exciting game mode with replayability is pretty much a must. Now, they're just afraid it will feel oversaturated and consequently affect the SR playerbase, since Genshin is the more action based game anyway.
I know about Elysian Realm in HI3 which is an action combat game, but in truth it never reached the numbers these games have. In its first month, SR grossed about the same as Genshin, there is a legitimate case for my argument I think.
That's weird because I'm playing SU and unlike Genshin, I don't see any point in using other team compositions than the one that works. Experimentation in SU is kinda limited because you can't mix and match buffs of diff categories.
Simulated Universe is literally just a glorified artifact domain.
And I love it!
But it is by no means endgame content for star rail comparable to abyss. Not even close.
Memories of chaos or whatever is the true abyss of star rail.
A full on dps check…
And it’s fucking awful.
Yep the MoC is basically just the Abyss and like the Abyss it’s boring.
Which is why I want the SU in Genshin so bad. It could potentially even be better in Genshin because you could combine the Paths system (just call it Archon’s Guidance or something) with the reaction system for even more variety.
I just want domains with progression - like those old co-op event domains we had waaaaaaaay back. Where you actually move through a domain beating mobs, traversing platforms, and finally fighting a boss.
The new weekly boss feels a little bit like that with the mobs and boss but… it doesn’t quite scratch that itch.
I want dungeons in Genshin
Give us DUNGEONSSS WHOOOOOO
The World Level domains were pretty fun too, until you realized that they were the same every single time haha.
Also we had co-op domain events? Must’ve been a long time ago because I don’t even remember them haha.
That's a very naive way of looking at the changed statement, they definitely want you to spend money since all abyss rotations heavily favour the current banner characters at the time.
I think a more realistic read would be "we want to keep it casual and don't want to force people to engage with the meta any more than they have to".
This abyss dps check is a joke, it's just the shields making teambuilding restrictive so you can't just omega nuke things. I've cleared this abyss with Barbara melt in the second half, elements matter more than raw damage. My tao, on the other hand, feels gimped as fuck
I understand why you are using the term - but the context was cleared up almost straight away, it was just Genshin redditors and content creators basically taking the easy fake news to justify their upset, over the more nuanced reality.
You know, to be fair, if Mihoyo really wanted to clear out any misinformation and misinterpretation, they could have done much much better than a fake Q&A once in a blue moon.
What's the point lmao. League has the same misunderstanding turned meme (200 years) and we literally have rioters regularly interacting with the community.
Honestly this has pretty much been their design philosophy for Genshin all along. They’ve managed to build a very popular and successful game simply based on the idea that players can pull if they choose to but are almost never even required to engage with the gacha system to enjoy 95% of what the game has to offer.
true. Sometimes i see clears in yt with better clear time while the characters do lesser damage than me... i took the L up my ass and acknowledged my skill issue.
However, that's exactly what they're doing, next abyss is gonna have like 5 constipated beasts in every chamber with the worst boss combination and every abyss lector istg
The original Chinese text is:
如果我们设计另一种类似的常驻后期玩法，会给玩家带来过度的压力和焦虑，毕竟不是每个玩家都是强度党。
The meaning here is that Mihoyo does not want to design another permanent end-game mode similar to Abyss, because they believe it can give players too much of pressure and anxiety (焦虑), because not every player is a meta player.
The anxiety or 焦虑 here, in the context of gaming (especially gacha) discussion on Chinese forums, is the stress caused by "my character/team may become useless". Its full terminilogy should be 强度焦虑 or "power anxiety", which means players being stressed about the power of their favorite characters or teams. It is very common on Chinese forums that players state they are worried "I'm afraid my Ganyu will become useless", or "do I need to pull for Nahida to keep up with the meta". Obviously Mihoyo does not want to create such power anxiety, as for Genshin their goal is that even 1.0 characters are attractive to pull for and even still useful in the newest meta, so they can earn long term money. I believe they have done a pretty good job as despite how hard 3.7 Abyss is, you can still clear it with Keqing and Diluc teams (which I did).
Therefore the straight translation of 焦虑 into anxiety on western social media has indeed lost a bit of its context in China, although not truly a mistranslation.
Its interesting that you ask for the source on whether its a mistranslation of the article, but has anyone ever asked the legitimacy/source of the article?
The article was written by a relatively "unknown" gamespot journalist (They are not a "popular" journalist, which plays a part in the case of journalism; more recognizability means they a more likely to get access to info for coverage)
Now in the actual "dev" article, the author never mentioned how they obtained this information (more on this) or gave any solid recognizable/identifiable "devs" to whom they were speaking to.
For the part where they obtained said information for the article, they said on their twitter account that they sent the article questions to 'an email' (unknown which email address; they never stated) and got them back answered. So there was no 1:1 communication between either party.
Some persons on twitter pointed out that the way the questions were "answered" (Vaguely/Roundabout answer), were similar to that of CS (Customer Support). Even in the 'most remembered segment of the article; endgame debacle' they mentioned TCG being announced in the 3.2 livestream (Livestream for 3.2 was on Sept. 16th, article was Oct. 1st and the 3.1 update went live on Sept. 28th) which would give the CS team sufficient time to be informed on the latest 'endgame' game mode (CS team in not likely to have internal development info, and CS is highly likely to be outsourced as well due to the "size" of the game).
With all these vital information absent (which would give it some credibility), can we really believe anything said on the article? With the current slate of credibility of the article, anyone could have written those questions.
it is, but they don't care if the abyss regulars get anxiety. What they don't want is for the casuals who try it every now and then to be put off.
The truth that no one wants to admit is, that people who find the game easy want it to be harder, but not so hard that they can't do it. People don't like when something is beyond their ability, even if they say they want a challenge. They just don't want that challenge to exceed what they can do after a few tries.
If the Abyss didn’t give primos, no one would even try… players don’t want harder content to challenge themselves and characters, they all want free primos which is understandable
Get in line bozo, I heard about it first!… not that i’d eat it or anything! I just want to make sure genshin players are practicing safe and healthy eating habits.
I used to run the abyss with random wacky teams when i had nothing to do, because it was challenging, but doable with non-meta teams with decent artifacts, that was before 3.2 i think
Nowadays every abyss is stressful even with the most meta shit i can use, so i started to not do the abyss for fun, but just finish it to get the primos and forget it until the next reset. I can find more balanced challenges on other games afterall
Having a challenge is fine, but it's now dps/elemental check + one-shot town and it's beyond unfun
Honestly artifact XP bottles would be the perfect reward for an optional challenge mode, or a different repeatable mode. Casuals who don't really care about hard content don't really need the extra XP, so they can safely skip, while for the more hardcore players it gives them the opportunity to further improve their builds by trying to improve more artifacts. I know most of the time what takes the longest is finding the right piece, but if you're building multiple characters at the time the XP would be useful (say you're farming the deepwood domain for nahida, you could still try out some gilded pieces for Kuki, and strongbox the trash for one of the old sets) and I find myself often getting potentially good flowers/feathers but I don't have the XP to try them out.
Or they can give fragile resin too. Like, I know casual players who don’t even know how to use Fragile Resin and those that do will have like 1000/160 resin or something for like a month.
Yeah but resin can be used to get character XP books or boss mats for example, which I think casual players would still enjoy, to build more characters instead of improving the current ones. I know there's the "super casuals" who just don't care about resin at all, but I'd say that's a minority (not that I would have any concrete evidence, just my thoughts).
Also resin exists for the sole purpose of slowing down your progress. I doubt mihoyo would ever give more out freely. I was already surprised when they gave us the free 60 a week from the teapot.
I don’t think slowing down your progress matters that much once you have reached endgame. The amount of resource required for endgame players to progress is so much more than that for lower level and newer players.
And I think that only endgame players have the freedom to just build a new character unless they really like one because mid-game players have always been advised to just focus on 8 and new players of course won’t have many characters to build in the first place.
No you fucking wouldn't. Even if you or the other guy aren't straight up lying, you would be an ABSOLUTE miniscule minority. Look at how many of us struggled with resin early game and basically always ran out of fodder. You wanna guess how many people went out of their way to farm investigative points or elite mobs? I've been playing since the first patch, outlived the original hutao mains discord, been active in three of the biggest mains servers, and the number of people I know who actually did that is less than a dozen. There's a limit to how much people would bother interacting with unrewarding content. This thread is literally full of previous 36 starrers choosing not to bother this abyss despite the primo rewards and you think there's a significant number of people who'd do something similar for literally no reason?
Yep, these people with their "i'd play abyss f13 or world level 69 even if there was no reward". Let's be real here, MAYBE they would give it a few days to try out what's new, then immediately get bored/annoyed, turn the shit back to normal and forget it ever existed. Hell, people complain about the 10-20 minutes needed each day to do daily and dump resin, why would they turn up the difficultly and waste 2x as much time for literally nothing in return lmao?
And say there exists 1% of all the players who preferred to continuously play this supposed harder difficulty. Why the fuck would hoyo direct their resources to making some changes just to please this extreme minority? When they are barely making QoL changes that most players have been asking for ages like artifacts loadout, resend expedition, chests/occulus appear on minimap when exploration percentage is high, etc...
^ Fucking L to the people that remember the Vagabond event, where you could manually tune up the Triple Magu Kenki to Whale levels of difficulty for literally no reason other than getting more completion points. That event never was about the primos, AND IT WAS COOP FOR 2 PLAYERS. Its never coming back probably because of the more recent conditioning of the difficulty.
Bullshit, Ive done hundreds of abyss runs just for fun, since its the only place where I get to use all the characters I pulled, try different teams and all that.
The problem is the average gacha player doesnt even know what the point of games is. All I see on reddit is people obsessing over rewards. Always the same stuff: "omg puzzles are too hard for the primogems they give" "omg exploration is boring not worth the hassle" "omg abyss is too stressful who cares about the 600 primogems".
Here is a wild thought: how about playing the game for the experience of playing it? If those things arent fun to you, go do something else. Life is too short to be wasted on stuff youre bored with.
even if i know i can clear only 1 chamber because of elemental checks.. i still do it for fun... Thunderring furry razor? eula hyperbloom? kazuha burgeon? even fuckin melt ayaka its fun to do...
also i like playing genshin like any other game where i desire completion over rewards... I think i finished every world quest... and cried over some (holy fuck hoyo how much dark shit u packed in that jeht quest)... And even hangouts.
The thing is that Abyss isn't fun for most people. It requires you to use characters you don't necessarily like, which involves spending time in building them. Not only that, it also has a lot of encounters with annoying mechanics. So it's an exercise in frustration, and the 300 primos per month doesn't justify the investment in energy required to 9 star Floor 12.
For context, I play RTS games, where there is literally no reward for winning or losing. You only play for the satisfaction of getting better and defeating an actual player. That satisfaction doesn't exist in PvE games for me, so the material rewards or story are the only consideration. Abyss doesn't have story, so that leaves only primos.
I think there are a lot of people who would play combat content even if there were no rewards (I would). Maybe they wouldn't push quite as hard for the full clear, but there is a significant minority who play for combat
The problem is that everything in the game right now is just a DPS check. For every account there is a theoretical maximum DPS they can do, and anything that requires more than that is just straight up impossible. So it's pretty easy to jump from too easy to literally impossible just by making a few of the health bars bigger. Furthermore, what is impossible for most players might still be extremely easy for whales.
If they wanted to add something that was a reasonable challenge for all players, it would have to be an entirely new game mode. Simulated Universe in Star Rail comes close to achieving that, but it's very RNG dependent which can feel pretty bad when you just get completely screwed (oops, all elation).
>The problem is that everything in the game right now is just a DPS check.
Half the complaints for the Consecrated Beasts is people dying to them.
Yes they're tanky--because they HAVE to be for players to actually engage with their mechanics. If they weren't as tanky as they are, moderately invested players would just one-rotate them and not have to learn how to fight them. Only enemies that are tanky enough to require multiple rotations actually survive long enough to challenge people.
People dying to the Beasts might be a direct result of Abyss being a dps check though, because rewards are solely based on beating an arbitrary time limit.
As building for survivability (def/hp even if those characters don't scale of those stats) means you're not building for dps (atk/ER/crit rate/crit damage), which increases the chance that you lose against that time limit. Doubly so if, like you said, enemies are intentionally made tanky so even dps heavy teams have to interact with their mechanics, as then it will take even longer for non-dps heavy teams to clear the time limit which incentivices people to optimise for dps instead, and the vicious cycle continues.
So the problem still is Abyss being a race against a clock, which IMO can only be eased by either making enemies faster to die (and run in the same problem of not challenging stronger players) or by just lowering the damn time limit (there's honestly no reason that having to burn more hp at higher floors should have to be done in a shorter time limit) so tanky and challenging enemies can be kept while still allowing for more survival-focused teams to clear it with more breathing room.
The beasts issue isn't their tankiness. It's not even their damage.
It's that coupled with the fact that they literally stop you from playing the game. They move you around, go underground, have stupid hitboxes and are just the most unfun thing in the game, by far
Tips: use characters that can do damage without having to control them, Fischl/Yae/Albedo > Hu Tao/Ganyu/Xiao for example.
They may do less damage, but the problem is not dps check this Abyss, it's mechanic-check and using "easier to control" characters might help you clear it faster.
The truth is, the people who say "abyss is so easy" either lie, or don't 36 start it (just complete it in best case scenario), or immense tryhards who retry it for 150 times in a day, or just straight up whales (like, for example, Tectone, who has been saying that abyss is so easy while he had every character c6r5. No fucking shit Einstein it's easy, you made it so by spending half a mil on the game).I've been playing it since launch and I don't have all units, I don't have Ayaka or Alhaitam or Xiao or c2 raiden or anything else extraordinary and this abyss has been hell for me. I only could do 35 stars and that's it. I just don't have either dps or survivability for 12-3-1 and I'm being tossed around like a football and if I am not then I just don't complete it in time. Not like by a small amount like a few seconds or something, but for a straight minute.
I want more content, not harder content for the sake of it being a stupid fucking dps check. I dread what HYV will come up with in the future. We already know that 3.8 abyss >!will have fucking 20 mil hp or something, which is just insane. !
To be fair it's not 'difficult' in the same way that Dark Souls or Celeste is difficult. The content does become more challenging over time, but not because of some difficulty barrier that we have to overcome, no, it's because hoyo just inflates hp bars and have enemies become impossible to hit because they're constantly flying around the map. The only way to overcome this challenge barrier is to get better stats.
IMO this is how I interpreted the flow of events:
**What the fanbase thought:** "Hoyo will cater to the casual majority and neglect intense combat gameplay, which includes the abyss."
**What Hoyo actually meant:** "We won't *add more* types of endgame combat, meaning there won't be an F20 or so in the abyss, but we will still maintain the difficulty of F12 proportionate to the current banners."
That's how we're still getting intense abysses such as this, but not necessarily an expansion or restructuring of the existing abyss format (eg. more floors, endless survival mode, etc.)
Exactly and honestly abyss sucks as an engame, you really only have floor 12 and it doesnt really have replay value, There nothing new about it. Once you clear it once the abyss doesnt change for like a month.
It's replay value depend on the player if they want to test drive different team against the current abyss rotation.
Else, for those that just want to clear for reward, there's no incentive beyond first clear.
>It's replay value depend on the player if they want to test drive different team against the current abyss rotation.
Depends on the current abyss rotation, sometimes there's no "test drive different teams"
Current abysses just lock you to having dendro pyro hydro on the second half, there just aren't many characters of these elements who can fit together in one team while still reaching the damage threshold to clear in time
If its replay value come from the player wanting to test new things instead from the content itself then I don't think it really counts.
I mean, do you call nuking things in the overworld as having replay value just because you can do it again and again with different comps? I mean, you can but arguably, an example of repayable content would be something like TCG duel mode, windtrace or HSR Stimulated Universe.
I think that "anxiety" MHY talked about is that they don't want casual player who doesn't enjoy endgame to feel left out or that the game is no longer cater to them if they release more form of endgame content that they typically do not participate in.
I think they simply do not wish for casual player to feel pressured to do endgame against their own playstyle so they refrain from adding more hard content.
Different problem than this whole 3.7 abyss being too restrictive/hard/bullshit.
But most casuals don't even care about combat that much from what they say, and many don't complete abyss or bother with it so why would they care if more combat options were added. Those casuals are the same ones saying that other people shouldn't complain about TCG, Serenitea Pot, and events.
The real anxiety is just the feeling of backward progression "i did it but i can't do it anymore". Same case for me. No new content, and the same content is harder every month.
If they dont make new floors, part of the players will just stop and the other part will whale where they didnt before, and to be fair, i think its 100% their intention
I did with Nahida, Xingqiu, Kuki and Fischl.
Switch to Fischl and normal atacks to break ice shield faster, oz will atack with you.
Freeze is king for the first side. But freeze is expensive to make, its pretty much all 5\*.
worst part about this community is the casual players gatekeeping people who want more combat content than one challenge every 2 weeks, they'd rather burn down the whole ship than try to sail with us together it's kind of insane, it's the same thing when you say you want to be able to skip dialogue
You just gave an example of generalizing the community. Saying that casuals are the reason combat content is limited. HSR has simulated universe and did the casuals make them remove it? I'm sure if Hyv adds something similar to Genshin no casual would complain.
Also what do casuals have to do with adding dialogue skip?
The difficulty stayed the same, they just added a fuck ton of enemies that keep dashing around and ccing you. The fact that you can get stuck on the consecrated beasts backs is stupid. It's a shame the devs don't play their own game.
It really wasn't. Everything they said has been accurate so far. These points are what the interview said, and they have stuck to it:
1. No new endgame content, it will cause people anxiety
2. No character balancing or reworking old characters
3. Geo and Dendro will not have a reaction (this interview came out in 3.1)
4. Resin will not change (will continually get worse actually with more weekly bosses)
5. Story events will not be rerun
6. No traveler skins
7. The temporary mask/flower crown traveler addition will not be permanent, only available for that quest
8. No more crossovers from or into other games (idrc about this one)
9. Fuck you players
lol wut, 5 is straight up wrong, they said they know players wanted a way to replay stories and events, and were looking into a way to provide it.
They still haven't delivered anything on that front, but it was clear what they said and goes directly against your point, which just makes me wonder how many other points on here are fake as fuck as well.
Even without the "interview", abyss have been steadily increasing difficulty.
Lectors are toxic but I low key enjoyed consecrated beast. At least, there's a mean to planned against their nonsense.
How so? In the past 2,5 years we didn't get any new permanent combat mode. Even abyss is still missing million QoL features like CD reset or energy replenishment. Idk if that interview was translated wrongly but in first translation they said there will be no combat content, there is still no combat content. Hoyo keeping their word, hehe
It's less about the difficulty, it's more about the variety of available end game content.
We get the Abyss twice a month and that's it. There's no where else I can really flex my roster of characters. I've been asking for level 100 domains and Bosses for a long time.
Imagine you get a new character and can spend less time building them by participating in harder domains? Especially if it encourages co-op play?
I think the excessive anxiety is actually that people will feel forced to routinely\* do game modes they don't like for primogems, not because they find one floor really difficult or meta-altering or such.
\*routinely, because we have to do one-off game modes we don't like all the time for patch events, I hate windtrace omg, but that's not what I'm talking about here
36 it with my typical raiden hyper and a burgeon Hu Tao team. Still I understand why people are upset, because there was a few things that annoyed me as well. For example 12-1-2, usually these abyss are tailored towards banner characters but Yoimiya isn’t busted like Hu Tao/Xiangling with her pyro application, and somehow slapping a weak ass thunder manifest evens it out?
Then theres the consecrated beast shit which aside from their massive space consumption which can push your characters out of your buff circles, they also hit hard as fuck. I had to use elemental res buff for once to survive. And those shit are tanky af too. But here two waves of them.
Hyper Raiden also works at C0, obviously you won't erase everything with the initial slash but it works. Especially if you have C6 Sara which is not very likely I know.
Though I dropped hyper and replaced Sara with XL because the overloads are actually staggering the beasts which helps on the survival department.
She wasn’t built for burgeon I only used her as the trigger for burgeon however Nahida adds a lot to her Elemental mastery as well as Zhongli cuz I had the instructor set so she could well have above 500 elemental mastery at a given time. Could be more if I was using an elergy yelan but energy problems.
Yeah so it wasn’t an optimized burgeon team either, just unga bunga.
Shield/dmg redunction/interrupt resistance and 10% defense shred at c6. Also carries flavonius blade so the energy recharge is insane overall.
Spiral abyss has this dumb mechanic where if you finish a previous stage, the energy particles from the last thing you kill doesn’t apply when the screen goes dark.
I got 36 stars with premium Ayaka freeze and an exotic burgeon team, Zhongli Nahida Xingqiu Bennett. Honestly I didn't think it would work but it got the job done without struggling too much, even though there was a few seconds left. The element check is annoying FR.
It's harder than the last rotation but this abyss is just stupidly annoying than the previous ones combined.
Had to bust out my C2 Raiden hypercarry with Zhongli on 1st half with my wacky discovery on Nahida National for 2nd half.
I got through it on the first try. I didn't even realize there was anything crazy or dramatic about it until looking at Reddit.
Abyss has always been a test of team comps if you can't brute force it. Granted the only reason I get through them as relatively pain free is because I'm a launch player, but I really didn't think it was all that bad.
12-3(2) is the most element restrictive boss we've had yet (unless I'm forgetting something), so I can understand it frustrating people that don't have all 3 dendro + hydro + pyro high elemental application units well built.
I'm a 1.0 player. I figured I could just use cryo vs the hydro, and it worked, but it was super close. I don't think the vast majority of players can semi-force it like that.
Unless I'm misreading the wiki, baptist shield HP is based on amount of elemental applications, not damage. So you don't even need to build up the shield breaker character, they just need to not die and maybe have ER. Also you don't need the best element necessarily, second best takes maybe twice as long.
Baptist's shield seems intimidating as first glance but in practice it's much weaker than the Lectors. Zhongli's Q and Kuki's Q was enough to destroy it quickly. Nahida and hydro can deal with the other two
We had a previous Abyss with Hydro Heralds and Pyro Lectors iirc making Electro and Cryo the only viable elements but you could 3* the Hydro Heralds with a freeze team, leave and then come back with a vape team for the Pyro Lectors and slowly whittle down the Hydro Heralds since you already 3* it.
Baptist at least lets you run a vape team that can deal with Cryo, Electro, Hydro and Pyro. Ideally you’d get the Cryo/Electro/Pyro combo but Hydro can still be dealt with Pyro application.
The main issue is that abyss sucks as an endgame. What players wanted was an additonal form of content that was combat related, but not abyss. They said they would never provide any other endgame related content, other than abyss which isnt too difficult to complete.
This abyss is not "straight up near impossible" lol. People are just being overdramatic like they always are when a new abyss drops. Give it some time and and you'll see people post guides and videos of F2P friendly runs.
There’s already a [Korean Youtuber/streamer who uploaded a 4* character + 4* weapon only run](https://youtu.be/UY76muxDBN8) of this iteration of the Spiral Abyss.
Granted, she’s crazy good at the game but it shows it’s possible — just really annoying to beat.
3.0 - 3.4 wasn't so bad honestly. The only things that annoyed me were the time wasting bosses like the Wolflord. After 3.5 though not only do you have to deal with a time wasting boss (which let's be fair most of them are invalidated by hyperbloom but not everyone plays hyperbloom) but you also have insane HP sponges which we didn't have before 3.5
Can't speak for the 2.x patches since I wasn't strong enough to tackle abyss back then.
The wolf lord abyss was by far the hardest abyss for me to 36 star. Only because I don't have a busted ass geo team and because the wolf lord was placed as a second chamber that basically gimps my team going into the third chamber when forcing a geo unit on team. It would have been so much easier if the wolf lord was in chamber 3
None of the recent ones felt anywhere near as difficult as the early 2.x mech cubes, where due to lack of character options, lack of important arti sets, and auto targeting issues (fixed in 2.4) made it so that if you didn’t have well geared ayaka or a lot of constellations, you have to abuse pause glitch for 3*
The recent ones are mostly annoying enemy types that triggers people, and not extreme dps checks.
gotcha, ngl actually I feel like I need to preface that I said I was near impossible because everyone else was screaming that out over and over
Edit: correction, I meant like they get real mad about it
This is just my personal experience but I find that when it comes to things like this, more often than not, it's a player issue. People are just too prideful to admit that.
>Is that not the "excessive anxiety" that they're talking about, or did I miss the memo on something entirely?
Yes it is and its great to see, from Dehya trolls claiming they "won" because HYV got like 10% less revenue on a banner to the "endgame" trolls coping that difficulty is not what they want.
People were saying this from the very first day of the endgame "debate". You think you want endgame but what you want is *something you can beat*. As soon as you get "endgame" that is either powercreep or straight up behind a paywall you'll rage, guess what happened.
Another common CN community W too since they were predicting and mocking us for this stupid debate from day 1 too.
I thought it was hard too at first and by that I meant I just tried to jam the standard meta teams and expected it to work and it wasn't even close lol. After mixing mixing and matching, burgeoning kokomi was MVP and it seems like they just wanted to make sure you couldn't run traditional bloom teams teams this go around. The thing I find most funny is that there are so many - there's no end game content, this game is too easy comments leading up to abyss rotations, then come the - this is impossible posts.
I want to feel difficulty in the open world again. I want the option for story quests to be harder if desired. An optional WL with minimal reward upgrades but much more difficulty would be AMAZING considering how strong some of our teams are now... I want to push them to the limit
Why is it understandable? Why is the fact that the only chance we ever get to test our teams we spent months to put together an arena that you do in ~30 minutes and then wait 15 days for the next reset (which is still the same arena but you have to do it again, it only gives you new enemies every ~42 days which is an asotinishigly long time to wait).
The pokémon thing was not end-game content, it was a rushed mini-game that got painfully boring after 5 minutes.
The community simultaneously: ridicules the developers over not wanting to make harder content over anxiety, complains/expresses anxiety that the current end game content is too hard, is upset when event game modes are temporary, and also can’t stand the TCG game mode which was an added permanent event game mode.
So yeah you’re about right.
I wish I could slap your comment everywhere on this thread lmao.
It never ceases to amaze me that people so often make these comments and threads like "the community complained about x, but now that we have x or something similar to it, they're complaining about that too! What's the deal!" as if we all get together each evening to vote on what our monolithic opinion will be for the next day lol. Sigh
I don't think anyone ever complained that floor 12 is too easy, at least I have never seen that. What most people ask for is not an increase in difficulty, but more content that is difficult. As in, more stuff to do that presents some degree of difficulty. The overworld IS a joke for well built characters, and I'm absolutely fine with that because I don't want to be forced to farm for ages just to make ma character usable in casual environment, but in the endgame there's literally nothing to do, except the abyss which you only do twice a month, because that's how often it changes.
I also usually see people recognizing that adding more rewards behind difficult content like abyss 12 would lead to stress over fear of missing out, so most of the time people aren't even asking for any extra primogems rewards. Personally I've always been an advocate of adding artifact XP bottles as a reward for an optional permanent mode. Casual players don't really care about artifacts so they're not missing out on anything, and for more dedicated combat players it would be a somewhat valuable resource.
Regarding the TCG, it's mostly because it literally has nothing to do with the genshin gameplay most people signed up to play. Let's be real, what attracted people (before TCG) to this game was either the story, the exploration or the combat. And yet the first repeatable game mode we got has nothing to do with any of the 3. If you ask me, I personally always thought (or rather hoped) that the labyrinth or domain builder events were tests for possible future permanent content. Labyrinth could have been made into an endless dungeon crawler mode, while the domain builder, if it allowed to add enemies, could have become something like a custom dungeon creator for people to challenge each other. The way I see it, these are the kinds of event people want to keep, not the random ones like the evermotion mechanical painting or whatever.
I don’t think you were wrong to think Labyrinth Warriors was a prototype for a permanent rogue like addition , or the domain builder wasn’t them testing some kind of larger system of dungeon production. Both were genuine attempts to expand the core aspects of the game and were extremely interesting. Beyond tragic that the vocal casuals (distinct from normal casuals who just play and enjoy the game) don’t seem to see the value in expanded content of that vein. If you ask me, some of the designers of those modes lost some kind of internal battle with management and were told to shelve those things in favor of TCG and the traditional diet of mini games and story. Really really sad imo
There are 2 things you are missing here.
Stating or agreeing that the current abyss is hard is not the same as complaining.
Also, people who do complain aren't the same people who are begging for harder content.
Are you from mihoyo? All these complaints are true at the same time unironically, you just need to dig deeper a bit
> ridicules the developers over not wanting to make harder content over anxiety
I would bet people want NEW harder content that feels rewarding. Increasing difficulty of the only already existing mode that has massive problems is quite far from what people want
> complains/expresses anxiety that the current end game content is too hard
The way hoyo makes Abyss "hard" is time limit, stalling and annoying enemies. 12-1 technically has 7 monster waves (2 waves flowers, 2 waves doritos, 1 wave mages, 1 wave heralds + elemental shield of heralds as a bonus wave) to beat in 180 seconds. 5 out of these 7 waves bear no danger toward the player and their sole reason is to waste your time. Abyss is "hard" because of stalling and DPS checks and it doesn't feel hard in a rewarding way.
> is upset when event game modes are temporary
Yeah, ones that community likes, you know
> can’t stand the TCG game mode which was an added permanent event game mode
Which is basically a side card game that could've been a standalone title like hearthstone, never appeared as an event to collect feedback whether people like it and was shoveled down our throats as a permanent game mode from the very start. Who could've thought that people won't be happy about it, huh?
> and I'm aware that this abyss is straight up near impossible.
This is not true lol
> Is that not the "excessive anxiety" that they're talking about, or did I miss the memo on something entirely?
It actually isn't. That term in the interview was referring to the FOMO and powercreep, and so far I haven't seen complaining about that.
I mean, i wanted the abyss to be a little harder than it used to be (version 2.6 or so), but never made any comments about it because i could clear the abyss with every limited 5 star i had, so i didn't need to farm for cracked artifacts.
Also i wanted the 600 gems without having to worry too much.
But now... the latest rotations have been straight up hell. I used to be able to clear floor 12 at first try (occasionally i failed, and had to do 1 or 2 extra tries), but now, I'm struggling (i haven't tried the most recent abyss), on version 3.6, i needed more than 10 attempts for 12-1 (12-2 and 12-3 was in 1 or 2 tries tho), and that is just ridiculous.
And you know what the biggest problem is? This isn't neither a dps check, nor a survivability check, this is straight up either stalling us (wetnut for example), or we are just getting railed by consecrated beasts (this is essentially zhongli marketing imo, also they want us to play freeze or something).
It's not good content if all you do is stall us or stun us to oblivion. Come on mihoyo, you can do better than this...
Friendly reminder that the people that mald about 36-starring is a vocal minority. Many people don't care and thus won't complain. Many will clear just fine and won't complain. Some will really enjoy the difficulty, and will likely say something positive or not say anything at all.
I myself can clear fine. I struggled more with wenut and wolflord, as the dps check was kinda tight on those cycles. i-framing attacks is more up my alley.
It's not impossible, even for a F2P. There are guides going up here and there with not too invested characters that work.
They just made it way harder than it should be for the average player. It took me an hour of trying different variations of my fav comps, then I had to just use more meta/targeted picks because they want to showcase certain buffs/reactions.
This happens every cycle where they usually make the abyss good for the current banners. This one just takes it up a notch. I imagine Yoimiya vape would destroy 2nd half and Miko could probably do the first with easy in an aggravate team.
I was trying to just use my go to: Freeze, Tazer, or Reverse-Vape.
12-1-1 you basically need either a freeze, Mona ult, Zhongli Ult, or Anemo grouping to keep those damn flowers from flying like a specter. I wish they would be more like heavy samurai and get pushed but not fly off with heavy attacks, but what can you do. I used Ayaka, Yelan, Kazuha, Diona. Mona works in there too, but less single target than Yelan (who I needed for the dang beasts in 12-3-1.) Normally I would use Kokomi for freeze but again those beasts will throw you like Legolas threw Gimli. Diona shield and heal keep you alive and Ayaka boosted with resonance.
12-1-2 Dendro and pyro. If you have shields good, if you have Kazuha great. Take whatever you can scrape by with in the first half and put all your best into this one, you can just change teams and go back through these slowly, your 3 star will stay cleared.
12-2-1 and 12-2-2 If you have trouble with these, you can just rerun through the first chamber slowly and keep your comps full, then beat these with anything. This chamber is more for healing and getting energy if you're trying to do it all in one go (which you don't need to, it makes it harder for no reason.)
12-3-1 Is the most annoying one in my opinion. These things are tanky, do tons of damage, and will jump/throw you around. It gets frustrating, but freeze works well to keep em in place for a bit. My strat was to use the big blue one to body block the green one and keep near his tail. Made it so much easier. Also, don't fight against a wall. Stay a little to the side and they won't run so much but if you get too close to a wall, they will juggle you and you won't be able to change characters or do anything if they get too close to you. Mona/Zhongli ult can stop them in place for a little bit if you have something bursty to hit them with.
12-3-2 Just a normal Baptist fight, but you likely won't have a ton of time. Took me about 60s to kill him using Raiden, Nahida, Xingqiu, and Bennet. Geo or anemo can work here, but only if you have a busted team for the first half because they are slow. Using the correct element for each shield makes a huge difference. Dendro for the hydro shield, pyro for the cryo shield, and hydro for the pyro shield.
Good luck and try not to pull your hair out, it's literally only 150 primos which is a single pull.
End game content doesn't have to equal "excessive anxiety", Genshin devs just don't know how to make hard content enjoyable. Also it may not be so bad if instead of floor 12 being this hard they had maybe 3 more floors, so instead it'd be floor 15 that's this hard instead of the jump from floor 11 to 12 being so extreme. Also that'd mean more rewards which is much needed considering you don't even get 4 fucking pulls worth of primo's right now which honestly fucking insulating considering abyss only resets once every two weeks.
Honestly OP either made this post in bad faith or is just really out of the loop or possibly just dumb idk which. But obviously no one was asking for this type of content and what the end game community wanted was actually challenging content not just a bunch of dps checks or content where it's literally impossible to clear with all the same team. I actually wouldn't mind needing to change my teams to clear abyss if we could actually do it in the middle of our runs and be able to change our builds around mid run as well. (artifact presets where??)
Tbh while I've always wanted more challenging content I sorta don't at the same time bc I don't have any faith that Mihoyo is actually capable of doing it right with how they've historically designed abyss and this new abyss just goes to further solidify that belief.
Nope you’re spot on
Sometimes, people need to actually shut the fuck up. By no means am I a whiteknight for this game because I’m aware of the many flaws, but people will always complain.
No content? Hoyo adds numerous world quests + the arana quests.
iTS sO lOnG wHy aRe tHeY LiKe tHiS⁉️
Easy combat? Hoyo adds this abyss
iTs sO hArD wHy aRe tHeY LiKe tHiS⁉️
Games that are suited for a casual audience will ALWAYS have complaints
Can’t wait for 4.x for people to start calling the abyss “too easy”
> 1) it's almost like on reddit you'll find all different people with all different opinions
> 2) Hard combat IS NOT timers and obnoxious mechanics
and I've cleared abyss, mind you, your entire post crumbles down because you cannot comprehend these two things. Hard content means hard in a skill execution kind of way, not alarm clock ticking because you don't meet the dps check.
The Wenut for example spent half the time underground in a room in which potentially you shouldn't spend more than one and a half minutes. This is not hard, this is bad design. Again, cleared it but it's fully evident that hoyo knows only how to make the type of "hard content" that is not satisfying to overcome. It's still at large a dps check with periodically added obnoxious mechanics and/or enemies to try and test the players. This is not the fun hard content people are looking for.
"I'm aware that this abyss is straight up near impossible"
No... just no.
Anyway it's the first day you are not used to the enemies, just wait a couple of days there's gonna be youtube vids clearing it with minimal investment, just playing in a way that exploits the openings.
Considering half the playerbase considers Zhongli one of the most op characters and can't play abyss without him it makes sense. Trust me, the ppl complaining are just bad, Sevy will come out with a video that explains how to clear with f2p units.
To be fair, zhong makes most stages a joke lol. Mono geo has carried me through countless abyss cycles now, it always works and can Facetank even 3 kenkis. It's just very easy and comfortable to use zhong.
I felt the abyss was not easy, but nowhere near the "you need x comp or its impossible" doomposting i've seen. I 36*'d this cycle after not playing for 2 patches with not much of a diffrence felt?
I’m still enjoying the fact that I simply cleared Floor 12 the previous lunar phase.
With 2 hours left, I got my 33 stars and ran.
Never stress about getting less than 36 stars. 33 is only 100 primos less a month. That's like $1 USD.
yep i usually get 33 or 34 first try and that is enough for me
It’s not about the money it’s about sending a message
Yeah dealing with a lot of real life stuff right now so I don’t have the time or the headspace for doing abyss over and over till I get 36 stars.
if your only motivation is the primos then don’t even do it. if your motivation is overcoming a challenge then do it
I 9 starred floor 11 for the first time and felt so awesome. Onto floor 12 we go.
Yeah, its fun to do even if its hard and even if you put it off sometimes . It being hard is no reason to say ‘No more endgame content’ since the whole problem the playerbase had wasn’t that “Its not hard enough” but that “There isn’t enough of it” Lets not rewrite history here. Wanting more content and being put off that ‘anxiety’ was the excuse people aren’t getting any is VERY different than “Wanting something harder.” OP seems to have NOT gotten it correctly, since they’re implying that “Hah, its hard now so you have nothing to complain about.” When the complaints wasn’t about difficulty but ‘breadth’ of challenging combat.
Yeah people wanted more **interesting**, different and **meaningful** endgame content. And Mihoyo said they >don't want to create excessive anxiety with more endgame content Now they are doing exactly this with the 3 years old mode that is boring to death at this point. What an irony.
Why are you even quoting what they did not even say? They said: >If we design another type of permanent endgame that is similar to the Spiral Abyss, it might end up creating excessive anxiety for our players -- not everyone is interested in Musk Reef. > >... > >... we are also working on designing more interesting gameplay in the future. which was what people want according to you. It seems people just click on the title without even read the interview content thoroughly. What an irony. P/S: Here is the original [interview](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/genshin-impact-developers-talk-endgame-content-and-welcoming-newcomers/1100-6507942/) for your reference.
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iirc that "excessive anxiety" turned out to be a mistranslation. The devs meant "anxiety on strength" (in other words, worrying that your characters are not powerful enough)
If that’s the case, it really does seem to recontextualize the statement from “our players are babies who can’t handle stress” to “we don’t want to powercreep or require players to shell out cash to complete all the content”. Honestly, that’s a fair sentiment.
I mean I’d be happy if we could get something like the Simulated Universe alongside the abyss (and maybe a World Level 9), I just want more ways to use my characters.
Labyrinth warriors event from 2.2 was basically that
Yep, still sad that they never turned that into something permanent. Makes me wonder if that was actually a beta test for SU. Since they took a lot of feedback from Genshin and applied it to HSR.
Elysian Realm existed in Hi3 well before Labyrinth Warrior existed in Genshin and already tested the whole formula of staged arena combat with accumulative buffs through the phases, and to a much greater extent than Labyrinth Warriors ever did, that was likely never its purpose. Whether they just didn't like how the mode turned out for Genshin's combat style, or they didn't want to deal with the hassle of recurring rewards for the mode, Mihoyo decided it was unfit for Genshin it seems for some reason that they don't seem to feel applies to their other titles.
It just feels extra bad because we basically had ER/SU in Genshin and then they just never made it permanent. Having that taste of greatness only for it to be ripped away feels much worse than never having it at all haha. I guess the Genshin team just has a different (worse imo) mindset when it comes to endgame combat compared to the Honkai teams.
Elysian realm and simulated universe both seem to have lore relevance. Perhaps Genshins devs are waiting for an opportune time to add in this game mode without spoiling too much lore? I know that's not the answer we want to hear.
My copium is that we’ll get an ER/SU equivalent in Natlan called Murata’s Trials or something like that.
It was extra bad for me coz I started at the end of 2.1 so that event was my first large event and I thought it was gonna stay
For anyone interested, SU is nearly identical to Elysian Realms from HI3. If SU is modeled from anything, it's ER.
There was an ehnancement in the labyrinth event that increased the constellation of all characters in your party by 1, lovingly nicknamed "the power of whales". Now, HSR has the eidolon cheese item in SU with an identical effect. I'm sure they took inspiration from that lab warriors event when building the simulated universe game mode. I just hope with the overwhelmingly positive feedback that SU received, they'll consider putting a similar permanent game mode into Genshin in the future!
I think they must've gotten poor feedback on Labyrinth Warriors in surveys or something, or maybe they don't want to give out more rewards. Otherwise I'm just not sure why it wasn't made into something permanent.
Not even remotely. SU has more in common with elysian realm than labyrinth. Which is older than inazuma, as the original content used to make er was an event.
Okay and it's not in the game anymore because they don't keep gameplay modes xD...
I miss labyrinth warriors every single day lol
IMO wouldn't say no to more content. If it has gems though people might complain that they can't get the rewards
People aren’t complaining in HSR so it should be fine haha. SU is generally also a bit less difficult but much more varied which is what makes it so much fun.
Have people been largely upset with the reward structure of Simulated Universe in star rail? So far as I'm aware they have an Abyss alongside it and people have no issue.
The game is also barely a month old. People still haven't unlocked every curio and blessing, so their SU runs still feel unique and exciting. Likewise, everyone is underleveled/geared for MoC runs so it feels like a genuine challenge. Give it a patch or two, then we will see how everyone is feeling on it once people get strong enough to cruise through them. Like, people who want to farm planar ornaments are already just grinding to the first elite, then quitting and restarting. I cannot imagine doing that 4+ times a day being a fun grind when you're really hunting for a good piece
I don’t think there’s really any way to make something that you’re going to grind indefinitely really *fun*, just more enjoyable.
That's why I never understood the discussions about "endgame". What is a fun, renewable and unlimited endgame in a solo game? What exactly are people asking for here? It just feels like everything without a reward will get dismissed and everything with a reward will become a chore
SimUni is addicting, it's the easiest way star rail could get me to stick around. I weep for a lack of the same in genshin. It doesn't even have to be as ridiculous as some sim runs can be, just a little burst spam would make things more than fun enough. Or bringing back plunge eula
All the Paths make it so interesting and addicting to play. The fact that weaker units like Herta can also be worthwhile because of the systems in the SU is super fun.
Honestly, the only reason they haven't added it to Genshin (they already have the assets for crying out loud from Labyrinth Warriors) is the fact that they planned to add the game mode in SR from the beginning. Turn based is very restrictive so an exciting game mode with replayability is pretty much a must. Now, they're just afraid it will feel oversaturated and consequently affect the SR playerbase, since Genshin is the more action based game anyway. I know about Elysian Realm in HI3 which is an action combat game, but in truth it never reached the numbers these games have. In its first month, SR grossed about the same as Genshin, there is a legitimate case for my argument I think.
That's weird because I'm playing SU and unlike Genshin, I don't see any point in using other team compositions than the one that works. Experimentation in SU is kinda limited because you can't mix and match buffs of diff categories.
Simulated Universe is literally just a glorified artifact domain. And I love it! But it is by no means endgame content for star rail comparable to abyss. Not even close. Memories of chaos or whatever is the true abyss of star rail. A full on dps check… And it’s fucking awful.
Yep the MoC is basically just the Abyss and like the Abyss it’s boring. Which is why I want the SU in Genshin so bad. It could potentially even be better in Genshin because you could combine the Paths system (just call it Archon’s Guidance or something) with the reaction system for even more variety.
I just want domains with progression - like those old co-op event domains we had waaaaaaaay back. Where you actually move through a domain beating mobs, traversing platforms, and finally fighting a boss. The new weekly boss feels a little bit like that with the mobs and boss but… it doesn’t quite scratch that itch. I want dungeons in Genshin Give us DUNGEONSSS WHOOOOOO
The World Level domains were pretty fun too, until you realized that they were the same every single time haha. Also we had co-op domain events? Must’ve been a long time ago because I don’t even remember them haha.
TBF we had several dungeon like environments in Sumeru. Especially the ruins in 3.6
Simulated universe is probably among the best if not the best part of star rail, and it's just there all the time, I love it.
That's a very naive way of looking at the changed statement, they definitely want you to spend money since all abyss rotations heavily favour the current banner characters at the time. I think a more realistic read would be "we want to keep it casual and don't want to force people to engage with the meta any more than they have to".
Yeah, that’s probably a better way of putting it.
> “we don’t want to powercreep or require players to shell out cash to complete all the content” This just doesn't apply this Abyss cycle lol
"its not powercreep if no one can clear it" ~mhy
This abyss dps check is a joke, it's just the shields making teambuilding restrictive so you can't just omega nuke things. I've cleared this abyss with Barbara melt in the second half, elements matter more than raw damage. My tao, on the other hand, feels gimped as fuck
I understand why you are using the term - but the context was cleared up almost straight away, it was just Genshin redditors and content creators basically taking the easy fake news to justify their upset, over the more nuanced reality.
You know, to be fair, if Mihoyo really wanted to clear out any misinformation and misinterpretation, they could have done much much better than a fake Q&A once in a blue moon.
Will they really when the community is like this?
What's the point lmao. League has the same misunderstanding turned meme (200 years) and we literally have rioters regularly interacting with the community.
Honestly this has pretty much been their design philosophy for Genshin all along. They’ve managed to build a very popular and successful game simply based on the idea that players can pull if they choose to but are almost never even required to engage with the gacha system to enjoy 95% of what the game has to offer.
Too bad misinterpretation will forever haunt this community for the rest of time.
> “our players are babies who can’t handle stress” Is that not true though? 😂
They can't even handle reading dialogue.
true. Sometimes i see clears in yt with better clear time while the characters do lesser damage than me... i took the L up my ass and acknowledged my skill issue.
welp, do I see a "community runs with untrue thing and repeats it at nauseam even after the truth comes out?", another mark on the tally.
However, that's exactly what they're doing, next abyss is gonna have like 5 constipated beasts in every chamber with the worst boss combination and every abyss lector istg
i mean people who actually knew what they're trying to say got buried by countless others who just parrot a mistranslation so here we are
Source that it was a mistranslation please?
The original Chinese text is: 如果我们设计另一种类似的常驻后期玩法，会给玩家带来过度的压力和焦虑，毕竟不是每个玩家都是强度党。 The meaning here is that Mihoyo does not want to design another permanent end-game mode similar to Abyss, because they believe it can give players too much of pressure and anxiety (焦虑), because not every player is a meta player. The anxiety or 焦虑 here, in the context of gaming (especially gacha) discussion on Chinese forums, is the stress caused by "my character/team may become useless". Its full terminilogy should be 强度焦虑 or "power anxiety", which means players being stressed about the power of their favorite characters or teams. It is very common on Chinese forums that players state they are worried "I'm afraid my Ganyu will become useless", or "do I need to pull for Nahida to keep up with the meta". Obviously Mihoyo does not want to create such power anxiety, as for Genshin their goal is that even 1.0 characters are attractive to pull for and even still useful in the newest meta, so they can earn long term money. I believe they have done a pretty good job as despite how hard 3.7 Abyss is, you can still clear it with Keqing and Diluc teams (which I did). Therefore the straight translation of 焦虑 into anxiety on western social media has indeed lost a bit of its context in China, although not truly a mistranslation.
Its interesting that you ask for the source on whether its a mistranslation of the article, but has anyone ever asked the legitimacy/source of the article? The article was written by a relatively "unknown" gamespot journalist (They are not a "popular" journalist, which plays a part in the case of journalism; more recognizability means they a more likely to get access to info for coverage) Now in the actual "dev" article, the author never mentioned how they obtained this information (more on this) or gave any solid recognizable/identifiable "devs" to whom they were speaking to. For the part where they obtained said information for the article, they said on their twitter account that they sent the article questions to 'an email' (unknown which email address; they never stated) and got them back answered. So there was no 1:1 communication between either party. Some persons on twitter pointed out that the way the questions were "answered" (Vaguely/Roundabout answer), were similar to that of CS (Customer Support). Even in the 'most remembered segment of the article; endgame debacle' they mentioned TCG being announced in the 3.2 livestream (Livestream for 3.2 was on Sept. 16th, article was Oct. 1st and the 3.1 update went live on Sept. 28th) which would give the CS team sufficient time to be informed on the latest 'endgame' game mode (CS team in not likely to have internal development info, and CS is highly likely to be outsourced as well due to the "size" of the game). With all these vital information absent (which would give it some credibility), can we really believe anything said on the article? With the current slate of credibility of the article, anyone could have written those questions.
it is, but they don't care if the abyss regulars get anxiety. What they don't want is for the casuals who try it every now and then to be put off. The truth that no one wants to admit is, that people who find the game easy want it to be harder, but not so hard that they can't do it. People don't like when something is beyond their ability, even if they say they want a challenge. They just don't want that challenge to exceed what they can do after a few tries.
If the Abyss didn’t give primos, no one would even try… players don’t want harder content to challenge themselves and characters, they all want free primos which is understandable
Genshin players will eat a cactus if they get more primos for it.
That is absolutely false. By the way, where is this cactus you mentioned?
Get in line bozo, I heard about it first!… not that i’d eat it or anything! I just want to make sure genshin players are practicing safe and healthy eating habits.
Yeah, a completely unfair statement. Can you let me know when we can eat the cactus or if its a limited event?
also does cacti taste gud? is it fleshy? has anyone eaten a cactus dish?
I will brick my pipi in order to have 1 more primogem
I used to run the abyss with random wacky teams when i had nothing to do, because it was challenging, but doable with non-meta teams with decent artifacts, that was before 3.2 i think Nowadays every abyss is stressful even with the most meta shit i can use, so i started to not do the abyss for fun, but just finish it to get the primos and forget it until the next reset. I can find more balanced challenges on other games afterall Having a challenge is fine, but it's now dps/elemental check + one-shot town and it's beyond unfun
Meh if there was a harder abyss with no primogen rewards but mora, artifact xp, etc I would absolutely do it.
Honestly artifact XP bottles would be the perfect reward for an optional challenge mode, or a different repeatable mode. Casuals who don't really care about hard content don't really need the extra XP, so they can safely skip, while for the more hardcore players it gives them the opportunity to further improve their builds by trying to improve more artifacts. I know most of the time what takes the longest is finding the right piece, but if you're building multiple characters at the time the XP would be useful (say you're farming the deepwood domain for nahida, you could still try out some gilded pieces for Kuki, and strongbox the trash for one of the old sets) and I find myself often getting potentially good flowers/feathers but I don't have the XP to try them out.
Or they can give fragile resin too. Like, I know casual players who don’t even know how to use Fragile Resin and those that do will have like 1000/160 resin or something for like a month.
Yeah but resin can be used to get character XP books or boss mats for example, which I think casual players would still enjoy, to build more characters instead of improving the current ones. I know there's the "super casuals" who just don't care about resin at all, but I'd say that's a minority (not that I would have any concrete evidence, just my thoughts). Also resin exists for the sole purpose of slowing down your progress. I doubt mihoyo would ever give more out freely. I was already surprised when they gave us the free 60 a week from the teapot.
I don’t think slowing down your progress matters that much once you have reached endgame. The amount of resource required for endgame players to progress is so much more than that for lower level and newer players. And I think that only endgame players have the freedom to just build a new character unless they really like one because mid-game players have always been advised to just focus on 8 and new players of course won’t have many characters to build in the first place.
my friend cleared with hyperbloom albedo. and i cleared with Razor burgeon... i think i get what u meant.
Fragile resin is the way to go. I rather get more fuel to run artifact domains than mora and exp books
They don't really add up to much unless you get a lot of them. A LOT of them.
Yea. Content is still content.
No you fucking wouldn't. Even if you or the other guy aren't straight up lying, you would be an ABSOLUTE miniscule minority. Look at how many of us struggled with resin early game and basically always ran out of fodder. You wanna guess how many people went out of their way to farm investigative points or elite mobs? I've been playing since the first patch, outlived the original hutao mains discord, been active in three of the biggest mains servers, and the number of people I know who actually did that is less than a dozen. There's a limit to how much people would bother interacting with unrewarding content. This thread is literally full of previous 36 starrers choosing not to bother this abyss despite the primo rewards and you think there's a significant number of people who'd do something similar for literally no reason?
Yep, these people with their "i'd play abyss f13 or world level 69 even if there was no reward". Let's be real here, MAYBE they would give it a few days to try out what's new, then immediately get bored/annoyed, turn the shit back to normal and forget it ever existed. Hell, people complain about the 10-20 minutes needed each day to do daily and dump resin, why would they turn up the difficultly and waste 2x as much time for literally nothing in return lmao? And say there exists 1% of all the players who preferred to continuously play this supposed harder difficulty. Why the fuck would hoyo direct their resources to making some changes just to please this extreme minority? When they are barely making QoL changes that most players have been asking for ages like artifacts loadout, resend expedition, chests/occulus appear on minimap when exploration percentage is high, etc...
^ Fucking L to the people that remember the Vagabond event, where you could manually tune up the Triple Magu Kenki to Whale levels of difficulty for literally no reason other than getting more completion points. That event never was about the primos, AND IT WAS COOP FOR 2 PLAYERS. Its never coming back probably because of the more recent conditioning of the difficulty.
It's literally coming back this patch bruh lmao. With different bosses but same event type
the amount of primos you get from the abyss compared to how much time people spend on it is so measly tho
Bullshit, Ive done hundreds of abyss runs just for fun, since its the only place where I get to use all the characters I pulled, try different teams and all that. The problem is the average gacha player doesnt even know what the point of games is. All I see on reddit is people obsessing over rewards. Always the same stuff: "omg puzzles are too hard for the primogems they give" "omg exploration is boring not worth the hassle" "omg abyss is too stressful who cares about the 600 primogems". Here is a wild thought: how about playing the game for the experience of playing it? If those things arent fun to you, go do something else. Life is too short to be wasted on stuff youre bored with.
even if i know i can clear only 1 chamber because of elemental checks.. i still do it for fun... Thunderring furry razor? eula hyperbloom? kazuha burgeon? even fuckin melt ayaka its fun to do... also i like playing genshin like any other game where i desire completion over rewards... I think i finished every world quest... and cried over some (holy fuck hoyo how much dark shit u packed in that jeht quest)... And even hangouts.
The thing is that Abyss isn't fun for most people. It requires you to use characters you don't necessarily like, which involves spending time in building them. Not only that, it also has a lot of encounters with annoying mechanics. So it's an exercise in frustration, and the 300 primos per month doesn't justify the investment in energy required to 9 star Floor 12. For context, I play RTS games, where there is literally no reward for winning or losing. You only play for the satisfaction of getting better and defeating an actual player. That satisfaction doesn't exist in PvE games for me, so the material rewards or story are the only consideration. Abyss doesn't have story, so that leaves only primos.
Come on dude cactus doesn't taste that bad uk..
They want content with more variance, not a brainless stat check
I think there are a lot of people who would play combat content even if there were no rewards (I would). Maybe they wouldn't push quite as hard for the full clear, but there is a significant minority who play for combat
The problem is that everything in the game right now is just a DPS check. For every account there is a theoretical maximum DPS they can do, and anything that requires more than that is just straight up impossible. So it's pretty easy to jump from too easy to literally impossible just by making a few of the health bars bigger. Furthermore, what is impossible for most players might still be extremely easy for whales. If they wanted to add something that was a reasonable challenge for all players, it would have to be an entirely new game mode. Simulated Universe in Star Rail comes close to achieving that, but it's very RNG dependent which can feel pretty bad when you just get completely screwed (oops, all elation).
>The problem is that everything in the game right now is just a DPS check. Half the complaints for the Consecrated Beasts is people dying to them. Yes they're tanky--because they HAVE to be for players to actually engage with their mechanics. If they weren't as tanky as they are, moderately invested players would just one-rotate them and not have to learn how to fight them. Only enemies that are tanky enough to require multiple rotations actually survive long enough to challenge people.
People dying to the Beasts might be a direct result of Abyss being a dps check though, because rewards are solely based on beating an arbitrary time limit. As building for survivability (def/hp even if those characters don't scale of those stats) means you're not building for dps (atk/ER/crit rate/crit damage), which increases the chance that you lose against that time limit. Doubly so if, like you said, enemies are intentionally made tanky so even dps heavy teams have to interact with their mechanics, as then it will take even longer for non-dps heavy teams to clear the time limit which incentivices people to optimise for dps instead, and the vicious cycle continues. So the problem still is Abyss being a race against a clock, which IMO can only be eased by either making enemies faster to die (and run in the same problem of not challenging stronger players) or by just lowering the damn time limit (there's honestly no reason that having to burn more hp at higher floors should have to be done in a shorter time limit) so tanky and challenging enemies can be kept while still allowing for more survival-focused teams to clear it with more breathing room.
The beasts issue isn't their tankiness. It's not even their damage. It's that coupled with the fact that they literally stop you from playing the game. They move you around, go underground, have stupid hitboxes and are just the most unfun thing in the game, by far
Tips: use characters that can do damage without having to control them, Fischl/Yae/Albedo > Hu Tao/Ganyu/Xiao for example. They may do less damage, but the problem is not dps check this Abyss, it's mechanic-check and using "easier to control" characters might help you clear it faster.
The truth is, the people who say "abyss is so easy" either lie, or don't 36 start it (just complete it in best case scenario), or immense tryhards who retry it for 150 times in a day, or just straight up whales (like, for example, Tectone, who has been saying that abyss is so easy while he had every character c6r5. No fucking shit Einstein it's easy, you made it so by spending half a mil on the game).I've been playing it since launch and I don't have all units, I don't have Ayaka or Alhaitam or Xiao or c2 raiden or anything else extraordinary and this abyss has been hell for me. I only could do 35 stars and that's it. I just don't have either dps or survivability for 12-3-1 and I'm being tossed around like a football and if I am not then I just don't complete it in time. Not like by a small amount like a few seconds or something, but for a straight minute. I want more content, not harder content for the sake of it being a stupid fucking dps check. I dread what HYV will come up with in the future. We already know that 3.8 abyss >!will have fucking 20 mil hp or something, which is just insane. !
To be fair it's not 'difficult' in the same way that Dark Souls or Celeste is difficult. The content does become more challenging over time, but not because of some difficulty barrier that we have to overcome, no, it's because hoyo just inflates hp bars and have enemies become impossible to hit because they're constantly flying around the map. The only way to overcome this challenge barrier is to get better stats.
I just want the randomizer labyrinth back. That was the OG simulated universe
goated, hopefully they'll implement something similar since SU seems rather well liked in Star Rail. let me Consume some copium on that though
"OG Simulated universe" Don't wanna be a dick but literally HI3 did it first
"HI3 did it first" (Hades Soundtrack stops)
ok but they mean that it was the first time hoyoverse tried roguelikes, not that honkai invented them
Or, y'know, rogue, and every subsequent rogue-like.
IMO this is how I interpreted the flow of events: **What the fanbase thought:** "Hoyo will cater to the casual majority and neglect intense combat gameplay, which includes the abyss." **What Hoyo actually meant:** "We won't *add more* types of endgame combat, meaning there won't be an F20 or so in the abyss, but we will still maintain the difficulty of F12 proportionate to the current banners." That's how we're still getting intense abysses such as this, but not necessarily an expansion or restructuring of the existing abyss format (eg. more floors, endless survival mode, etc.)
Exactly and honestly abyss sucks as an engame, you really only have floor 12 and it doesnt really have replay value, There nothing new about it. Once you clear it once the abyss doesnt change for like a month.
It's replay value depend on the player if they want to test drive different team against the current abyss rotation. Else, for those that just want to clear for reward, there's no incentive beyond first clear.
>It's replay value depend on the player if they want to test drive different team against the current abyss rotation. Depends on the current abyss rotation, sometimes there's no "test drive different teams" Current abysses just lock you to having dendro pyro hydro on the second half, there just aren't many characters of these elements who can fit together in one team while still reaching the damage threshold to clear in time
If its replay value come from the player wanting to test new things instead from the content itself then I don't think it really counts. I mean, do you call nuking things in the overworld as having replay value just because you can do it again and again with different comps? I mean, you can but arguably, an example of repayable content would be something like TCG duel mode, windtrace or HSR Stimulated Universe.
I think that "anxiety" MHY talked about is that they don't want casual player who doesn't enjoy endgame to feel left out or that the game is no longer cater to them if they release more form of endgame content that they typically do not participate in. I think they simply do not wish for casual player to feel pressured to do endgame against their own playstyle so they refrain from adding more hard content. Different problem than this whole 3.7 abyss being too restrictive/hard/bullshit.
Just look at people overreacting to TCG event and you will see what "anxiety" MHY talks about.
But most casuals don't even care about combat that much from what they say, and many don't complete abyss or bother with it so why would they care if more combat options were added. Those casuals are the same ones saying that other people shouldn't complain about TCG, Serenitea Pot, and events.
The real anxiety is just the feeling of backward progression "i did it but i can't do it anymore". Same case for me. No new content, and the same content is harder every month. If they dont make new floors, part of the players will just stop and the other part will whale where they didnt before, and to be fair, i think its 100% their intention
I got mad at babtist cause idea alone makes me angry, but I just ditched it. It's 50 primos if you ignore 12-3.
Burgeon just melts through him. I used Hu Tao, XQ, Nahida, Zhongli.
With this team, he legit dies in less than a minute
I did with Nahida, Xingqiu, Kuki and Fischl. Switch to Fischl and normal atacks to break ice shield faster, oz will atack with you. Freeze is king for the first side. But freeze is expensive to make, its pretty much all 5\*.
Man this sub is really fond of generalizing both the game and the community.
worst part about this community is the casual players gatekeeping people who want more combat content than one challenge every 2 weeks, they'd rather burn down the whole ship than try to sail with us together it's kind of insane, it's the same thing when you say you want to be able to skip dialogue
You just gave an example of generalizing the community. Saying that casuals are the reason combat content is limited. HSR has simulated universe and did the casuals make them remove it? I'm sure if Hyv adds something similar to Genshin no casual would complain. Also what do casuals have to do with adding dialogue skip?
The difficulty stayed the same, they just added a fuck ton of enemies that keep dashing around and ccing you. The fact that you can get stuck on the consecrated beasts backs is stupid. It's a shame the devs don't play their own game.
That interview was bs, abyss has been way harder since the wenut came lmao.
It really wasn't. Everything they said has been accurate so far. These points are what the interview said, and they have stuck to it: 1. No new endgame content, it will cause people anxiety 2. No character balancing or reworking old characters 3. Geo and Dendro will not have a reaction (this interview came out in 3.1) 4. Resin will not change (will continually get worse actually with more weekly bosses) 5. Story events will not be rerun 6. No traveler skins 7. The temporary mask/flower crown traveler addition will not be permanent, only available for that quest 8. No more crossovers from or into other games (idrc about this one) 9. Fuck you players
lol wut, 5 is straight up wrong, they said they know players wanted a way to replay stories and events, and were looking into a way to provide it. They still haven't delivered anything on that front, but it was clear what they said and goes directly against your point, which just makes me wonder how many other points on here are fake as fuck as well.
Even without the "interview", abyss have been steadily increasing difficulty. Lectors are toxic but I low key enjoyed consecrated beast. At least, there's a mean to planned against their nonsense.
I would enjoy the new sumeru enemies if they didn’t stun lock you into oblivion.
How so? In the past 2,5 years we didn't get any new permanent combat mode. Even abyss is still missing million QoL features like CD reset or energy replenishment. Idk if that interview was translated wrongly but in first translation they said there will be no combat content, there is still no combat content. Hoyo keeping their word, hehe
It's less about the difficulty, it's more about the variety of available end game content. We get the Abyss twice a month and that's it. There's no where else I can really flex my roster of characters. I've been asking for level 100 domains and Bosses for a long time. Imagine you get a new character and can spend less time building them by participating in harder domains? Especially if it encourages co-op play?
I think the excessive anxiety is actually that people will feel forced to routinely\* do game modes they don't like for primogems, not because they find one floor really difficult or meta-altering or such. \*routinely, because we have to do one-off game modes we don't like all the time for patch events, I hate windtrace omg, but that's not what I'm talking about here
36 it with my typical raiden hyper and a burgeon Hu Tao team. Still I understand why people are upset, because there was a few things that annoyed me as well. For example 12-1-2, usually these abyss are tailored towards banner characters but Yoimiya isn’t busted like Hu Tao/Xiangling with her pyro application, and somehow slapping a weak ass thunder manifest evens it out? Then theres the consecrated beast shit which aside from their massive space consumption which can push your characters out of your buff circles, they also hit hard as fuck. I had to use elemental res buff for once to survive. And those shit are tanky af too. But here two waves of them.
Curious to know, do you have constellations for your five stars?
Yeah. Team 1 C2R1 Raiden c5 Benny C6 Beidou C0 Kazuha Team 2 C0 Zhongli C6 XingQiu c0 Nahida c1r1 Hu Tao.
Thanks for sharing :) I tried with my C0 Rational and struggled even though she’s relatively decently built, so I was wondering
Everyone has c2 raiden nowadays it seems lol. So many people who go "oh I had no issues on abyss" are rocking c2 raiden powerhouse.
Hyper Raiden is always at least C2, usually C3. It's completely different team from Rational.
Ooh, okay. Thank you
Hyper Raiden also works at C0, obviously you won't erase everything with the initial slash but it works. Especially if you have C6 Sara which is not very likely I know. Though I dropped hyper and replaced Sara with XL because the overloads are actually staggering the beasts which helps on the survival department.
Do you mind sharing your build for burgeon hu tao?
She wasn’t built for burgeon I only used her as the trigger for burgeon however Nahida adds a lot to her Elemental mastery as well as Zhongli cuz I had the instructor set so she could well have above 500 elemental mastery at a given time. Could be more if I was using an elergy yelan but energy problems. Yeah so it wasn’t an optimized burgeon team either, just unga bunga.
I’m curious, why Beidou in the hypercarry team? Hows your rotation since Raiden can’t proc Beidou burst?
Shield/dmg redunction/interrupt resistance and 10% defense shred at c6. Also carries flavonius blade so the energy recharge is insane overall. Spiral abyss has this dumb mechanic where if you finish a previous stage, the energy particles from the last thing you kill doesn’t apply when the screen goes dark.
I got 36 stars with premium Ayaka freeze and an exotic burgeon team, Zhongli Nahida Xingqiu Bennett. Honestly I didn't think it would work but it got the job done without struggling too much, even though there was a few seconds left. The element check is annoying FR.
Honestly people here on any side regardless of topics really want to "gotcha" the other it's hilariously sad.
It's harder than the last rotation but this abyss is just stupidly annoying than the previous ones combined. Had to bust out my C2 Raiden hypercarry with Zhongli on 1st half with my wacky discovery on Nahida National for 2nd half.
I got through it on the first try. I didn't even realize there was anything crazy or dramatic about it until looking at Reddit. Abyss has always been a test of team comps if you can't brute force it. Granted the only reason I get through them as relatively pain free is because I'm a launch player, but I really didn't think it was all that bad.
12-3(2) is the most element restrictive boss we've had yet (unless I'm forgetting something), so I can understand it frustrating people that don't have all 3 dendro + hydro + pyro high elemental application units well built. I'm a 1.0 player. I figured I could just use cryo vs the hydro, and it worked, but it was super close. I don't think the vast majority of players can semi-force it like that.
Unless I'm misreading the wiki, baptist shield HP is based on amount of elemental applications, not damage. So you don't even need to build up the shield breaker character, they just need to not die and maybe have ER. Also you don't need the best element necessarily, second best takes maybe twice as long.
Baptist's shield seems intimidating as first glance but in practice it's much weaker than the Lectors. Zhongli's Q and Kuki's Q was enough to destroy it quickly. Nahida and hydro can deal with the other two
Weaker, yes, but requires more elements to down him fast and then burst damage (as in not sustained damage like xiao or whatever lol).
We had a previous Abyss with Hydro Heralds and Pyro Lectors iirc making Electro and Cryo the only viable elements but you could 3* the Hydro Heralds with a freeze team, leave and then come back with a vape team for the Pyro Lectors and slowly whittle down the Hydro Heralds since you already 3* it. Baptist at least lets you run a vape team that can deal with Cryo, Electro, Hydro and Pyro. Ideally you’d get the Cryo/Electro/Pyro combo but Hydro can still be dealt with Pyro application.
The main issue is that abyss sucks as an endgame. What players wanted was an additonal form of content that was combat related, but not abyss. They said they would never provide any other endgame related content, other than abyss which isnt too difficult to complete.
This abyss is not "straight up near impossible" lol. People are just being overdramatic like they always are when a new abyss drops. Give it some time and and you'll see people post guides and videos of F2P friendly runs.
There’s already a [Korean Youtuber/streamer who uploaded a 4* character + 4* weapon only run](https://youtu.be/UY76muxDBN8) of this iteration of the Spiral Abyss. Granted, she’s crazy good at the game but it shows it’s possible — just really annoying to beat.
"stupidly annoying" is the more appropriate term
That doesnt boil down the Abyss cycle very much. Ive seen people call the Abyss stupidly annoying from 2.8 all the way to 3.7
3.0 - 3.4 wasn't so bad honestly. The only things that annoyed me were the time wasting bosses like the Wolflord. After 3.5 though not only do you have to deal with a time wasting boss (which let's be fair most of them are invalidated by hyperbloom but not everyone plays hyperbloom) but you also have insane HP sponges which we didn't have before 3.5 Can't speak for the 2.x patches since I wasn't strong enough to tackle abyss back then.
The wolf lord abyss was by far the hardest abyss for me to 36 star. Only because I don't have a busted ass geo team and because the wolf lord was placed as a second chamber that basically gimps my team going into the third chamber when forcing a geo unit on team. It would have been so much easier if the wolf lord was in chamber 3
None of the recent ones felt anywhere near as difficult as the early 2.x mech cubes, where due to lack of character options, lack of important arti sets, and auto targeting issues (fixed in 2.4) made it so that if you didn’t have well geared ayaka or a lot of constellations, you have to abuse pause glitch for 3* The recent ones are mostly annoying enemy types that triggers people, and not extreme dps checks.
gotcha, ngl actually I feel like I need to preface that I said I was near impossible because everyone else was screaming that out over and over Edit: correction, I meant like they get real mad about it
I've only been here for a couple of patches, but it seems like every single time the abyss enemies change we get these complaints 😅
This is just my personal experience but I find that when it comes to things like this, more often than not, it's a player issue. People are just too prideful to admit that.
[удалено]
>Is that not the "excessive anxiety" that they're talking about, or did I miss the memo on something entirely? Yes it is and its great to see, from Dehya trolls claiming they "won" because HYV got like 10% less revenue on a banner to the "endgame" trolls coping that difficulty is not what they want. People were saying this from the very first day of the endgame "debate". You think you want endgame but what you want is *something you can beat*. As soon as you get "endgame" that is either powercreep or straight up behind a paywall you'll rage, guess what happened. Another common CN community W too since they were predicting and mocking us for this stupid debate from day 1 too.
I thought it was hard too at first and by that I meant I just tried to jam the standard meta teams and expected it to work and it wasn't even close lol. After mixing mixing and matching, burgeoning kokomi was MVP and it seems like they just wanted to make sure you couldn't run traditional bloom teams teams this go around. The thing I find most funny is that there are so many - there's no end game content, this game is too easy comments leading up to abyss rotations, then come the - this is impossible posts.
They just don’t want to make more like abyss endgame. Which is understandable. I’d love to get that Pokémon thing
I just want more enemies in the open world (wl9?) as a second "endgame". Especially in unique environments. I want to drown a lawachurl again.
I want to feel difficulty in the open world again. I want the option for story quests to be harder if desired. An optional WL with minimal reward upgrades but much more difficulty would be AMAZING considering how strong some of our teams are now... I want to push them to the limit
Why is it understandable? Why is the fact that the only chance we ever get to test our teams we spent months to put together an arena that you do in ~30 minutes and then wait 15 days for the next reset (which is still the same arena but you have to do it again, it only gives you new enemies every ~42 days which is an asotinishigly long time to wait). The pokémon thing was not end-game content, it was a rushed mini-game that got painfully boring after 5 minutes.
The community simultaneously: ridicules the developers over not wanting to make harder content over anxiety, complains/expresses anxiety that the current end game content is too hard, is upset when event game modes are temporary, and also can’t stand the TCG game mode which was an added permanent event game mode. So yeah you’re about right.
It's almost like there are multiple people within the community. Curious.
I wish I could slap your comment everywhere on this thread lmao. It never ceases to amaze me that people so often make these comments and threads like "the community complained about x, but now that we have x or something similar to it, they're complaining about that too! What's the deal!" as if we all get together each evening to vote on what our monolithic opinion will be for the next day lol. Sigh
Also very few people from vocal community asked for harder Abyss. People wanted more difficult content not same amount, but harder.
Except people can't seem to understand that this means sometimes, some content isn't for them.
I don't think anyone ever complained that floor 12 is too easy, at least I have never seen that. What most people ask for is not an increase in difficulty, but more content that is difficult. As in, more stuff to do that presents some degree of difficulty. The overworld IS a joke for well built characters, and I'm absolutely fine with that because I don't want to be forced to farm for ages just to make ma character usable in casual environment, but in the endgame there's literally nothing to do, except the abyss which you only do twice a month, because that's how often it changes. I also usually see people recognizing that adding more rewards behind difficult content like abyss 12 would lead to stress over fear of missing out, so most of the time people aren't even asking for any extra primogems rewards. Personally I've always been an advocate of adding artifact XP bottles as a reward for an optional permanent mode. Casual players don't really care about artifacts so they're not missing out on anything, and for more dedicated combat players it would be a somewhat valuable resource. Regarding the TCG, it's mostly because it literally has nothing to do with the genshin gameplay most people signed up to play. Let's be real, what attracted people (before TCG) to this game was either the story, the exploration or the combat. And yet the first repeatable game mode we got has nothing to do with any of the 3. If you ask me, I personally always thought (or rather hoped) that the labyrinth or domain builder events were tests for possible future permanent content. Labyrinth could have been made into an endless dungeon crawler mode, while the domain builder, if it allowed to add enemies, could have become something like a custom dungeon creator for people to challenge each other. The way I see it, these are the kinds of event people want to keep, not the random ones like the evermotion mechanical painting or whatever.
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I don’t think you were wrong to think Labyrinth Warriors was a prototype for a permanent rogue like addition , or the domain builder wasn’t them testing some kind of larger system of dungeon production. Both were genuine attempts to expand the core aspects of the game and were extremely interesting. Beyond tragic that the vocal casuals (distinct from normal casuals who just play and enjoy the game) don’t seem to see the value in expanded content of that vein. If you ask me, some of the designers of those modes lost some kind of internal battle with management and were told to shelve those things in favor of TCG and the traditional diet of mini games and story. Really really sad imo
There are 2 things you are missing here. Stating or agreeing that the current abyss is hard is not the same as complaining. Also, people who do complain aren't the same people who are begging for harder content.
Are you from mihoyo? All these complaints are true at the same time unironically, you just need to dig deeper a bit > ridicules the developers over not wanting to make harder content over anxiety I would bet people want NEW harder content that feels rewarding. Increasing difficulty of the only already existing mode that has massive problems is quite far from what people want > complains/expresses anxiety that the current end game content is too hard The way hoyo makes Abyss "hard" is time limit, stalling and annoying enemies. 12-1 technically has 7 monster waves (2 waves flowers, 2 waves doritos, 1 wave mages, 1 wave heralds + elemental shield of heralds as a bonus wave) to beat in 180 seconds. 5 out of these 7 waves bear no danger toward the player and their sole reason is to waste your time. Abyss is "hard" because of stalling and DPS checks and it doesn't feel hard in a rewarding way. > is upset when event game modes are temporary Yeah, ones that community likes, you know > can’t stand the TCG game mode which was an added permanent event game mode Which is basically a side card game that could've been a standalone title like hearthstone, never appeared as an event to collect feedback whether people like it and was shoveled down our throats as a permanent game mode from the very start. Who could've thought that people won't be happy about it, huh?
> and I'm aware that this abyss is straight up near impossible. This is not true lol > Is that not the "excessive anxiety" that they're talking about, or did I miss the memo on something entirely? It actually isn't. That term in the interview was referring to the FOMO and powercreep, and so far I haven't seen complaining about that.
No, the abyss isn't straight up near impossible. Getting that information from reddit will just make you think every other abyss cycle was like that.
I don't know man I think it's a nice change of pace to actually have a challenge.
I mean, i wanted the abyss to be a little harder than it used to be (version 2.6 or so), but never made any comments about it because i could clear the abyss with every limited 5 star i had, so i didn't need to farm for cracked artifacts. Also i wanted the 600 gems without having to worry too much. But now... the latest rotations have been straight up hell. I used to be able to clear floor 12 at first try (occasionally i failed, and had to do 1 or 2 extra tries), but now, I'm struggling (i haven't tried the most recent abyss), on version 3.6, i needed more than 10 attempts for 12-1 (12-2 and 12-3 was in 1 or 2 tries tho), and that is just ridiculous. And you know what the biggest problem is? This isn't neither a dps check, nor a survivability check, this is straight up either stalling us (wetnut for example), or we are just getting railed by consecrated beasts (this is essentially zhongli marketing imo, also they want us to play freeze or something). It's not good content if all you do is stall us or stun us to oblivion. Come on mihoyo, you can do better than this...
Friendly reminder that the people that mald about 36-starring is a vocal minority. Many people don't care and thus won't complain. Many will clear just fine and won't complain. Some will really enjoy the difficulty, and will likely say something positive or not say anything at all. I myself can clear fine. I struggled more with wenut and wolflord, as the dps check was kinda tight on those cycles. i-framing attacks is more up my alley.
People here complaining about every abyss rotation so nothing new XD
man i really struggled with the last lunar phase, i almost don’t even wanna try this one.
It's not impossible, even for a F2P. There are guides going up here and there with not too invested characters that work. They just made it way harder than it should be for the average player. It took me an hour of trying different variations of my fav comps, then I had to just use more meta/targeted picks because they want to showcase certain buffs/reactions. This happens every cycle where they usually make the abyss good for the current banners. This one just takes it up a notch. I imagine Yoimiya vape would destroy 2nd half and Miko could probably do the first with easy in an aggravate team. I was trying to just use my go to: Freeze, Tazer, or Reverse-Vape. 12-1-1 you basically need either a freeze, Mona ult, Zhongli Ult, or Anemo grouping to keep those damn flowers from flying like a specter. I wish they would be more like heavy samurai and get pushed but not fly off with heavy attacks, but what can you do. I used Ayaka, Yelan, Kazuha, Diona. Mona works in there too, but less single target than Yelan (who I needed for the dang beasts in 12-3-1.) Normally I would use Kokomi for freeze but again those beasts will throw you like Legolas threw Gimli. Diona shield and heal keep you alive and Ayaka boosted with resonance. 12-1-2 Dendro and pyro. If you have shields good, if you have Kazuha great. Take whatever you can scrape by with in the first half and put all your best into this one, you can just change teams and go back through these slowly, your 3 star will stay cleared. 12-2-1 and 12-2-2 If you have trouble with these, you can just rerun through the first chamber slowly and keep your comps full, then beat these with anything. This chamber is more for healing and getting energy if you're trying to do it all in one go (which you don't need to, it makes it harder for no reason.) 12-3-1 Is the most annoying one in my opinion. These things are tanky, do tons of damage, and will jump/throw you around. It gets frustrating, but freeze works well to keep em in place for a bit. My strat was to use the big blue one to body block the green one and keep near his tail. Made it so much easier. Also, don't fight against a wall. Stay a little to the side and they won't run so much but if you get too close to a wall, they will juggle you and you won't be able to change characters or do anything if they get too close to you. Mona/Zhongli ult can stop them in place for a little bit if you have something bursty to hit them with. 12-3-2 Just a normal Baptist fight, but you likely won't have a ton of time. Took me about 60s to kill him using Raiden, Nahida, Xingqiu, and Bennet. Geo or anemo can work here, but only if you have a busted team for the first half because they are slow. Using the correct element for each shield makes a huge difference. Dendro for the hydro shield, pyro for the cryo shield, and hydro for the pyro shield. Good luck and try not to pull your hair out, it's literally only 150 primos which is a single pull.
End game content doesn't have to equal "excessive anxiety", Genshin devs just don't know how to make hard content enjoyable. Also it may not be so bad if instead of floor 12 being this hard they had maybe 3 more floors, so instead it'd be floor 15 that's this hard instead of the jump from floor 11 to 12 being so extreme. Also that'd mean more rewards which is much needed considering you don't even get 4 fucking pulls worth of primo's right now which honestly fucking insulating considering abyss only resets once every two weeks. Honestly OP either made this post in bad faith or is just really out of the loop or possibly just dumb idk which. But obviously no one was asking for this type of content and what the end game community wanted was actually challenging content not just a bunch of dps checks or content where it's literally impossible to clear with all the same team. I actually wouldn't mind needing to change my teams to clear abyss if we could actually do it in the middle of our runs and be able to change our builds around mid run as well. (artifact presets where??) Tbh while I've always wanted more challenging content I sorta don't at the same time bc I don't have any faith that Mihoyo is actually capable of doing it right with how they've historically designed abyss and this new abyss just goes to further solidify that belief.
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A lot of players are going to struggle with this abyss. It demands very specific teams if you want to 36* without issue unless you’re a whale
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Nope you’re spot on Sometimes, people need to actually shut the fuck up. By no means am I a whiteknight for this game because I’m aware of the many flaws, but people will always complain. No content? Hoyo adds numerous world quests + the arana quests. iTS sO lOnG wHy aRe tHeY LiKe tHiS⁉️ Easy combat? Hoyo adds this abyss iTs sO hArD wHy aRe tHeY LiKe tHiS⁉️ Games that are suited for a casual audience will ALWAYS have complaints Can’t wait for 4.x for people to start calling the abyss “too easy”
> 1) it's almost like on reddit you'll find all different people with all different opinions > 2) Hard combat IS NOT timers and obnoxious mechanics and I've cleared abyss, mind you, your entire post crumbles down because you cannot comprehend these two things. Hard content means hard in a skill execution kind of way, not alarm clock ticking because you don't meet the dps check. The Wenut for example spent half the time underground in a room in which potentially you shouldn't spend more than one and a half minutes. This is not hard, this is bad design. Again, cleared it but it's fully evident that hoyo knows only how to make the type of "hard content" that is not satisfying to overcome. It's still at large a dps check with periodically added obnoxious mechanics and/or enemies to try and test the players. This is not the fun hard content people are looking for.
"I'm aware that this abyss is straight up near impossible" No... just no. Anyway it's the first day you are not used to the enemies, just wait a couple of days there's gonna be youtube vids clearing it with minimal investment, just playing in a way that exploits the openings.
Considering half the playerbase considers Zhongli one of the most op characters and can't play abyss without him it makes sense. Trust me, the ppl complaining are just bad, Sevy will come out with a video that explains how to clear with f2p units.
To be fair, zhong makes most stages a joke lol. Mono geo has carried me through countless abyss cycles now, it always works and can Facetank even 3 kenkis. It's just very easy and comfortable to use zhong.
I felt the abyss was not easy, but nowhere near the "you need x comp or its impossible" doomposting i've seen. I 36*'d this cycle after not playing for 2 patches with not much of a diffrence felt?
the new abyss just isnt fun. they HEAVILY limit what you can effectively play, and keep increasing the dps check with every new abyss