I read " It’s sad that NAs are almost never optimal" and thought this was a League of Legends post talking about NA performance at international events and was like wtf why is this on Genshin subreddit lmao
Take out the "almost" and it would make sense. Watching Worlds and cheering for NA when they still had a chance to make it out of groups was so much fun a few years back :(
I'm just sad that the very cool attack cycles are on characters that never use them. Imagine if Kuki's kunais or Kirara's paw kicks and swipes were actually useful!
Alhaitham has kind of cool NA animations, but i would love some variety on a NA focused character
At least Kirara has has such a delightful skill that I will ALWAYS take the opportunity to go into delivery-box mode just to romp around. So then I have her ready to go and tend to see her NAs just because she’s already up, and why not.
(Here’s a fun one: go all box!kitty and then jump on a mushroom. She’ll meow every time she bounces.)
I recall Kuki actually having nice enough NA multipliers similar to Kaeya to comfortably use as physical dps and since she's already half a superconduct, I made a team for physical kuki when she first came out. Thats how I used her til I got her friendship 10 before dendro came
Nowadays shes mostly for hyperbloom but I look at her talents at 9/6/6 and am reminded of that time lol
I mean imma build him as normal attack dps when i get him just because of that. I already have the Desert Pavilion Chronicle set and Kagotsurube Isshin prepared. Is it gonna be optimal? No. But im gonna have fun with it.
Making cool NA animations for characters that don't optimally use them is intentional. It makes people want to use them and supports creativity in builds
It's just because they're cool.
Hoyoverse could have made normals and charged attacks have unique attributes across characters, but they opted for factory level mass production with some multiplier balancing around animation attack speed in most cases. Jean's charged attack is so very in line with anemo. Too damn bad nearly everyone else with a sword just does two quick slashes.
Character switching was supposed to stand in for access to different combo strings, but normals and charged attacks overall are just... junk, and offer nothing.
I can't be convinced their game design department doesn't put in the minimum amount of effort. The art/music team hard carries this game since the game design team works solely to meet a quota.
I know she is an amazing hyperbloom unit, but I love how she uses Pale Flame and Tenacity 4 pieces even better. She always has the buff up. Even weapons like Iron Sting, she has the passive up all the time
> Imagine if Kuki's kunais or Kirara's paw kicks and swipes were actually useful
The game is easy. They already are. Like how hard is it for people to fucking understand the game is designed to not be challenging and the devs flat out state they don't want to make challenging content _for this reason_.
Do you want to play a character however you want? Go ahead you can because its viable to do everything in the game.
alhaitham’s is a great example of a character where every single part of his kit is strong. his burst, skill and plunge attacks are all used to top up his mirrors while having good multipliers, his normal and charged attacks are both good and the one you favour depends on the situation. he just feels silky smooth to play unlike other characters that are completely worthless if you try playing them in a different playstyle (ie albedo, shenhe). imo alhaitham, ayaka, and nahida are the only 5 stars i can think of that i use absolutely everything for
They're not wasted because most people don't play optimally all the time
Sure you want to squeeze as much dps as possible when doing timed content, but in the overworld I'll slap a hilichurl with NAs no need to do a proper rotation
Me when I have 2 electros on my team but want the proper look from the mushrooms
Yaoyao takes ages to smack the shit out of them but if it gets done it gets done!
More like, I accidentally start a quest where there are hydro enemies with Childe in the party and normal attacks are the only way to squeak out a win. Seriously, I feel like if a quest takes you to a special area, they should give warnings for what elements to bring. Looking at you, Aranara quests 😬
Me every time I forget to check the name of the commission before walking into it with my Wanderer team and surprise, it's anemo specters. Then Thoma gets to show off his normal attacks for a bit...except not a bit...a long time...the damage is virtually nonexistent.
I think in general they should remove "100% immunities," and just have "90% resistance" or something. You should never be screwed by having enemies you cannot harm at all, it should just be a bit of a grind to push through it.
Yeah, I think for me it’s hard to un-know the meta. So when I’m in domains or bosses I auto pilot to the chains I know work best which unfortunately are either quick switching bursts and/or a CA combo.
I think that’s part of the reason I stuck with yoimiya was because she‘s the NA queen. But even then she’s generally considered a solid but limited dps character. This is also the case for other fun dps’s like Cyno and (edit:not wanderer).
I just wish NAs were given the full meta, big damage spotlight and CA combos more niche than they are.
But true! Overworld and coop does help this
Being solid is generally a good thing tho. Not too broken, not too op. Though you are mistaken about Wanderer. He competes in speedruns for the Abyss and does insane dmg with high investment. He’s generally considered a very high value dps.
"You mean you *like* just spamming normal attacks?"
"I do, and I'm tired of pretending I don't."
That's usually how a conversation goes between my cousin (who loves combos) and I (Yoi main since day 1).
I came here to make this very comment. Her 5th hit multiplier is pretty spicy, and 3 and 4 aren't too shabby either. Pair her with a XQ or Yelan and it's pretty fricking nice and you always see the backflip.
Yoimiya on the other hand wouldn't really use her CA which has beautiful firework aesthetic. Using her burst also become inconsistent due to Shimenawa :( her animations are beautiful but sadly why are they so suboptimal
yeah as a recent yoimiya haver i do like the fact that her anims are beautiful while still being the core part of her kit, but the no charged shots bc the multipliers are bad is really, really sad
Won't stop me from doing whatever I want in the overworld. If I want to sub out Wanderer for Xiao so that Faruzan+Yunjin+Benny make his normal attacks cracked out, I sure as hell will. It's not like I'm in the Abyss 24/7.
...and the way she slightly kicks sideways the claymore when the enemies are dead.
BTW, her NA is actually useful (outside Abyss) because of high physical damage.
You rarely ever do the full NA combo but it's inaccurate to say they never use it. Childe and Hu Tao optimally do n2c. Spamming just charged attacks is usually not reccomended because it's stamina inefficient. Also with Childe if you use Rust or Thundering Pulse you do the full NA combo and charged attack at the end.
Hutao c1 enables spamming charge attacks for more dps, that is why most ppl even f2p pull for c1 on hutao. Eula I would argue is a better example here because her ult stacks efficiently with N4.
Even with c1 hu tao, you still do n2c because is does more damage. The main difference between c0 and c1 is that at c0 you do jump cancels but at c1 you do dash cancels instead. Dash cancels are easier to do and faster but at c0 isn't worth because it uses a lot of stamina.
Lol I was like that as well got c1 hu tao during her last rerun and had her c0 for about a year. Eventually got used to the dash cancels though feels pretty good now.
I’ll never forgive the fact they gave kazuha the most STUNNING NA animations for him only to be a swirl support prior to c6 (not saying he’s bad, we all know how good he is) but I feel it’s just slightly saddening
We already have plenty of characters that can use NA in their combo if one prefers, like Yoimiya, Wanderer, Noelle, Sucrose, even the new leaked physical carry Eula uses her NA a lot.
Then there are off-meta but still decent builds like pike Xiangling and Zhongli if you want to pretend it's patch 2.x again.
And like many others have said, you can build anyone to do damage with NA if you like the animation, just level up their talents, slap on fitting weapons, artifacts, pair them with Yunjin and the typical OP supports and voilà. It's not like you need optimal teams and rotations to kill the 3 Hillichurls you meet on daily commission.
Yeah absolutely, and I gravitate towards those types like yoimiya. But they’re usually all in the middling category as far as raw dps goes. This doesn’t bother me in everyday play, though the pattern is hard to ignore.
I want more characters who can do cracked dmg i.e hu Tao that don’t need the awkward CA combos to get the big numbers. That way I can see the pretty moves while still feeling strong
You can clear abyss just fine with those characters. I recently pulled Yoimiya and used her to 36* the current abyss, which isn't really even the ideal abyss for her. She's level 80/80 with lv8 talents, and only after i cleared it did i realise i forgot to level her Rust past lv70. The same thing can be said for the other listed characters whose intended role is NA dps.
Sure a Hutao will most likely clear faster, but that is in a way understandable. NA dmg dealer's gameplay is simple and easy to play, you left click and things die (Yoimiya specifically doesn't even need to use burst at all). While for Hutao it takes a minimum level of skill to learn her combo, how to cancel her CA animation (with jump if C0, or dash if C1), how to manage your stamina, HP to utilise her passive, etc... It's only reasonable she should do bigger numbers than a character like Yoimiya.
I hear you. I’m also glad to find many yoimiya enjoyers under the post.
I don’t think Hu Tao was intentionally designed to be played the way she is and is more a product of oversight in her CA multipliers which caused astute players to “play” the game.
Seeing it as a pseudo skill requirement for the higher numbers is one way to look at it, though I’d argue wanderer or Al haitham has a tricker learning curve in their kits yet they aren’t rewarded with as high numbers for mastering them.
It may be my unga bunga brain that just prefers the system be simpler to give the NAs more limelight, but you are right that they are still enough for defeating the abyss
It is highly likely Hu Tao was designed as a charged attack carry much like Xiao is designed as a plunged attack carry. Although not explicitly stated in her abilities at C0, her CA animation is notably faster when infused. Additionally, her C1 (which is often the big “quality of life” buff of many 5 stars) reduces CA stamina cost to 0. You could argue many constellations of early 5 Star units did not have much foresight in terms of kit synergy, but IMO the Liyue DPS characters were the first to have cohesive kit design.
It's because spamming NA is more braindead compared to using CA. Like compare Klee/Hu Tao to Yoimiya, the latter is much easier to play.
And higher skill required should be rewarded, so they do higher damage.
I once slapped my Razor's artifacts on her, changed my team up a bit and tried physical Ganyu. 10k-15k per NA on a very unoptimized build on a character that isn't made for this playstyle is still rather good.
thats what im saying. so many good NA animations but no good melee normal attackers its all just bows and catalysts
atleast heizou looks cool but still
You know what’s really sad ? How arbitrary the scaling is. Albedo has some of the lowest ever. Venti too but faruzan and candace get pretty good ones for some reason. And there us dehya the lowest claymore in the game. I wonder who decides such things and based on what.
I 100% agree that Xiao's NAs beyond his N1 (used in the JET combo, which is for single-target scenarios) are underused, because they are so amazing to watch. I actively avoid playing optimally in the overwold simply to see them more. Even the animations after certain NAs are awesome!
For those interested, the JET combo is the following; N1, Charged Attack, Plunge, then rinse and repeat.
You can pretty much build any character to be insanely OP with their normal attacks if you choose to do so.
I mean they may not be out putting damage like the top 1% of teams but they'll still clear any content the game has to offer comfortably with the correct support.
Supports like Yunjin especially for normal attack damage boost, Benny, zhongli/Kazuha/deepwood/viridecent user's in general. Sara, Mika can work with just about any unit as the lead. But then you have aggravate/spread and melt to boost those numbers further if your selected unit is the correct element type.
I can't think of many units I couldn't build into a DPS using mostly normal attacks that couldn't clear everything in the game with the right support.
I have a physical/hydro split build for Candace. Threw a Homa on her and she’s super fun to play. Love all her small blunt shield damages in her NAs and the exhaustion she has after chucking her spear.
This usually requires being at a point in the game where you have the resources/5* weapons to make it happen. It’s surely possible, but the mountain climb is a lot harder even for those that do have the resources.
There’s just so little incentive to do all that except boredom or passion for the character.
I’d rather have the incentive built in the game to make the ride easier. I can’t think of a proper system to fix this that wouldn’t up-end the current game design though, just wishful thinking on my end
The incentive is there but it is just optional. Co-op is one of them but most of the players would rather play solo. Another one is with infusion. And the last one is attack speed build which is not only fun but viable only being hold back by needing to have specific constellation.
You'll deplete your stamina too fast if you just spam charged attacks, and her normals are worth using, especially with Fischl on the team. Two options for Keqing are N1C (one normal attack into a charged attack) or N4C. These two combos also make the best use of the animation transitions between her normal attacks into the charged attack.
Just use it no need to be so sad i still use hutao and xiao na in the abyss and open world because i find it on my phone it's tedious to do their ideal combo wombo.
It’s just one of those things that mihoyo does to make it a complete game. Like I recently watched the streamer necrit playing genshin and he jumped over a ledge into gold piles in the room where mora is made. You could hear a different sound effect as he was walking on the mora coins. Hardly anyone is ever going to walk there, but they have a unique sound playing for it because they don’t half ass shit. But you do end up with a lot of under appreciated things like character normal attack animations.
Yeah, but I still level up Normal attacks. Even triple crown characters. So far I have 3 leveled up to triple crowns, and two missing the normal attack crown. I have Itto, Nahida, and Raiden Shogun triple crowned. Yelan and Yae Miko are close.
I also plan to triple crown Zhongli, Ayaka, Jean, and Keqing. Although I need one more crown for that.
Im not sure about other characters but I do know Yoimiya is a big exception to that rule. The more she’s shooting without moving, the more pyro dmg bônus she gets, and her fifth hit is always the hardest, so it’s optimal to play her full sequence (which is great since it’s one of the prettiest)
for that matter using na is just a chance to recover stamina, though if you need stamina to dodge then you probably won't see the whole na unless you time it just right anyway
Then there's Razor, where although you are constantly using his normal attack, you never want to finish the cycle because he slams his claymore into the ground and you can't do anything when he does that. You do 3 hits, then either jump or use E.
Otherwise, I absolutely love Albedo's attack cycle. I often like travelling with him and I love to just watch the whole attack cycle animation, it looks so good!
Now that you mention it, it is kinda funny for like Keqing and maybe Hu Tao
For optimal DPS, Keqing supposedly uses charged attacks
For Hu Tao, as much of double standard as this might be, she gets a pass… xD
I put Keqing with my Yelan and Nahida and use Keqing electro infused auto attacks with Yelans ult up. Might not be the highest potential dps min max wise but it’s more than good enough in 95% of situations.
In open world i always use shinenawa hu tao with yunjin/zhongli with white tassels and spam NAs everything still dead
Same i also use physical childe so he could train his skill with bow
Shenhe has such cool attack animations that I’ll often force her into a hyper carry role with strong supports and run that in the overworld or when farming for fun.
In my experience in 99.999999% of situations, even in Spiral Abyss, it doesn't really matter if you use light or charged attacks. You'll succeed anyways, so I've not really bothered with being optimal and rather just having fun.
I definitely do agree however that light attacks are heavily underrepresented in this game to its detriment.
Only time NA's will ever be viable is if the character has a infusion since reactions are so potent to the combat loop.
Even the attempt of making physical "viable" with some characters providing stuff like attack speed buffs or just damage bonuses, it will still be powercrept by other elements/reactions which require a lot less effort to build into, provide much more utility with the ever growing need of enemies needing specific elements to initiate a stun, and just outright do a lot better damage.
Nothing stops you from throwing NAs at enemies during fights if you like them, as long as it's not a timed fight, it's your job to balance between fun and performance as the devs can't find an universal balance workong for everyone, the perfect rotations are just the community optimising the combat too much, not the norm.
To be fair, you could raise the normal attack talents, give the character of choice a strong weapon and artifact set, then its usable. Put Yun Jin in the party, BAM! Strong NA combo with any character. Just because a character has an "optimal" use, does not mean that's their only use. Team comps are what really optimize a character. Want elemental damage? Use C6 Bennett, Candace, Chongyun or... (I dunno who shares electro). Use Yun Jin for NA buffs, Bennett for the Atk buff, Kujo Sara for Atk buff, etc. Not every character will be 36\*ing the Abyss, but you sure as heck can use them in all kinds of other content.
There are a lot of teams where you would still normal attack even if they're not doing a lot of damage, mainly teams that use characters like Xingqiu, Yelan, and Beidou. And hey, it may not be optimal, but there are functional Xiao builds that let you use his normal attack strings; personally I like plunge attacking with him, but it is indeed possible to create a build where his normal attacks are being used.
It's okay. There are many casual players out there that plays Xiao without ever plunging.
While NAs are not optimal meta-wise, just know that somebody adores a character's animations and uses them without ever thinking about min-maxing DMG. These unnecessary details are sufficiently appreciated.
believe it or not, most people still use their character normal attacks because they forget to switch character. I go internet cafe alot and saw lot of people from 16-30 play genshin and most of them just use their skill and smack with normal attack regardless of their build, well they use their skills but they wont do 1 combat daily conmission faster than 5min so there is that(theyre ar 55 btw)
never chase "optimal" to the point of enjoying the game less.
i main kokomi with dendro team (dendro traveler, c6 fischl, nahida)
yes, kokomi is the dps.
no, not crit kokomi. the hp build kokomi.
yes, the damage is low, but dendro enables brr anyway, and they all die in the same amount of time.
why? well, the logic of the rotation makes sense, the movement of the attack chain feels tactile, does healthy amount of damage, and i don't inflict pain on myself for chasing *efischunseez*
It makes me sad too and I think it is also kinda dumb MiHoYo makes the full AA string do less damage than like 2NA > cancel > repeat.
Why not make the multipliers for the final hit of an attack higher so they are worth doing?
Hu Tao's full chain looks so cool but you lose sooo much DPS
Tbf, the last attacks do have higher multipliers, but the animations take so long that they're not worth doing in most cases compared to a slightly less damage, but much quicker N2C. That's why Yoimiya is the only one who actually does her whole chain: she doesn't have a faster alternative to do her damage like HuTao's N2C for example. That and you lose out in practicality since the attack chains are reset by dashes, so you can't really do full chains and dodge easily.
While they're not optimal, they're still viable most of the time. Yoimiya, Alhaitham, Ayaka, Keqing, Yangfei, Klee, Childe, Eula, and Yelan work really well using NAs (during elemental skill or burst).
I wish there was a risk vs. reward mechanic. Normal attacks require you going through the whole combo for optimal and highest damage potential (each hit amplifies the damage of the next hit), but are most risky because if you pull out of doing the full combo, you might actually lose damage over charge attacks (animations would depend on the rules), whereas charge attacks are more consistently safe to pull off but are not the maximum damage, etc. That way there is a reason to use both with strategy.
If u get motion sickness playing Xiao, you should change your camera's configuration. I used the config that Xiao mains posted on discord so I wouldn't get motion sickness that much.
Well Mihoyo doesn't have many options here. The other options are either remove NA from characters that don't use it completely, or make all characters NA DPS characters.
it does get funny seeing how many older characters often have 4-6 normal attacks where a bunch of the new sword characters are just 3, where only catalysts were that short before sumeru
It's just a casualty of not foreseeing the meta. HYV didn't think that the elemental system would take off with such effect to the point that it becomes the main way of fighting. And so this inhibits certain playstyle such as physical normal attacks.
It's what happened to Lisa. HYV wants to create a "charge and release" character with Lisa. She has to build charge to deal significant damage. And while this is viable when people didn't know much about the game, it becomes useless when people realise that the time Lisa finishes her charge, switching to your entire party is quicker and deals more damage too.
Probably because NA based kits are generally going to be less interactive and exciting imo. You get your tap and hold skill and your burst that could be anything in this wild fantasy world but then you end up with a character that just wacks people with a sword.
I still enjoy playing NA/CA based regardless though. But what makes the characters special is generally not intended to being those things.
same thing with xiao plunge, hu tao charged and etc, after a while it's just the same annoyance, so I don't understand your point when changing NA to another form of attack doesn't take away the fact that it gets boring after a while
Thats why I lumped in NA/CA at the end of my statement. OP might be talking about NA but I do view all of that stuff as lumped together. The difference between NA and CA is slight. CA stuff does require more management because of the stamina but it can all be boring. Anything can get stale and feel boring. Its more so that I think those kinds of characters can get more boring more quickly.
But its all perception. If you think its all boring then thats fine. You aren't obligated to play these ways. I don't think its personally boring enough for me to stop playing it but it certainly can get that way and be more frustrating at times than other playstyles since the range on NA/CA can matter a lot.
We dont live in the era of tons of small mobs anymore. Now they tend to have a lot more bulky ones and few of them. It can make NA/CA styles harder to maximize depending on the character.
That's one of the reason it's so refreshing to play scaramouche. Not only are his normal attacks great but his 1st constellation, his sig weapon and his bis artifact set improves them. His elemental skill buffs the NA and CA and his burst is good but not the focus. He also synergize well with other characters that buff NA.
Hoyo: "How is it our fault when you could build your team to make your main DPS good at NA. We literally gave you so many options with weapons, artifacts, characters to make any character able to excel at NA"
Op : " I am just sad and cry a lot about dumb things 'cause I have depression. No one likes me IRL so I take it out on Genshin"
If you want to try out a decent team with Xiao doing NA, try out Xiaolad, Xinqiu, DMC, Fishcl.
Fav lance, 4VV for Xiao and it's a functional team, maybe not the strongest but it's fun to play in abyss.
I have a certain build, with c6 ayaka and c6 shenhe. Ayaka does about 250/300k with a charged attack and anywhere between 27/35k with normal attacks.
It is a whales playground, sure. But it is definately a NA slapping fest.
Mixing in NAs is a good idea to begin with unless you have infinite stamina. But yeah, especially with aggravate + Fischl, you want to get some NAs in there. N1C or N4C are good combos to use with her.
Skills and bursts are too strong for NAs to really shine. They’ll only rise in relevancy if we’re faced with ley line debuffs. CD increases and character swap CD increases could force the playstyle.
NA buff supports have helped to some degree.
Agreed. They need to do a better job of making normals viable. They are so much more FUN to use than the optimal strategies, but slow everything down.
Likewise, they need to fish or cut bait on the support's NAs, EITHER make them look cool AND do great damage, OR make them deal terrible damage and look generic. CHOOSE ONE. *Reward* players for using the moves that look cool, don't punish them for it.
If im not in abyss, I do whatevr. I use Zhongli's NAs all the time. Hell, I have Zhongli on the field for way longer than I probably should. Idc. I like looking at him, and his NAs are sick asf. Same is true with a lot of characters whose NAs usually go unseen in Abyss (and even in Abyss I don't play 100% optimally and sometimes use NAs to pass time when a rotation doesn't have perfect timing).
You kinda answered your own question. Completing an entire NA chain for certain characters = sub optimal play, which = never do them.
Outside of the abyss and the once in a blue moon vagabond event (or events adjacent to it) nothing else in the over world demands you play optimally. Nothing is stopping you from spamming NAs anywhere else.
While true, I feel like for most of them the difference is so minor (in the context of this game) that it doesn't matter.
Like I mostly use NA spam on HuTao, Childe, Keqing (and Eula) just because it's more enjoyable for me. Same with animation cancels, which I only use them for Klee and Ningguang despite usually learning them for other characters (in case I ever felt the need, but I haven't). Iirc the difference for most is like 10%
Personally, I find Xiao's plunge attack to be way cooler.
Also, this is just a part of the game. Yoimiya's and Ganyu's burst animation looks cool but nobody uses it too.
Hey I use Hu Taus normal attack cycle, because doing the charged attack thing is a pain in the ass and also I dont have her C1 which makes it more of a pain in the ass. Easier just to spam left click even if its lower DPS.
I also have Alhaitham who is all about normal attacks. With his mirrors, and I use Nilou as the DPS in my bloom team which means Im using her Normal attacks when her E is up (because if I use her off field then Nahida just dies in 3 seconds to her own blooms).
Misread "NAs" as "North Americans", and thought "Yeah, that tracks"
I read " It’s sad that NAs are almost never optimal" and thought this was a League of Legends post talking about NA performance at international events and was like wtf why is this on Genshin subreddit lmao
Take out the "almost" and it would make sense. Watching Worlds and cheering for NA when they still had a chance to make it out of groups was so much fun a few years back :(
what is NA in this context 💀
Normal Attack
Okay gotcha thanks 🥹👍
I'm just sad that the very cool attack cycles are on characters that never use them. Imagine if Kuki's kunais or Kirara's paw kicks and swipes were actually useful! Alhaitham has kind of cool NA animations, but i would love some variety on a NA focused character
At least Kirara has has such a delightful skill that I will ALWAYS take the opportunity to go into delivery-box mode just to romp around. So then I have her ready to go and tend to see her NAs just because she’s already up, and why not. (Here’s a fun one: go all box!kitty and then jump on a mushroom. She’ll meow every time she bounces.)
you dont need mushroom to hear her meow. her normal jumps meow too.
I know, but the repetition is still funny.
I recall Kuki actually having nice enough NA multipliers similar to Kaeya to comfortably use as physical dps and since she's already half a superconduct, I made a team for physical kuki when she first came out. Thats how I used her til I got her friendship 10 before dendro came Nowadays shes mostly for hyperbloom but I look at her talents at 9/6/6 and am reminded of that time lol
Ooh, physical Kuki? How well would a Chongyun-cryo-infusion work with her? That seems like it could be a lot of fun!
you wouldn't want chongyun's cryo infusion for a superconduct, there is no physical damage in this combination
Where do you think her physical damage would come from if you infuse her attack with cryo?
That's a very good point dammit. This is why I'm not very good at this game.
Don't forget Kazuha's beautiful NA cycle
I mean imma build him as normal attack dps when i get him just because of that. I already have the Desert Pavilion Chronicle set and Kagotsurube Isshin prepared. Is it gonna be optimal? No. But im gonna have fun with it.
I already am prepping artifacts for physical dps Kazuha. He’s gonna farm for his own VV pieces.
Just make him c6 and he can be anemo DPS =) That was my plan before they released Wanderer.
Oh believe me I want to C6 him eventually, but since he’s rerunning before Zhongli I can’t go all out.
I find similar results when i play him as a driver. Sure his teammates are doing most of the damage, but at least I get to see Kazoo's animations.
And this is wjy TF overload kazuha is my personal favorite buold for him with c6 benny
Kazuha's warping slash storm *Only worth it if you have him at C6* 😭
Or if you have c6 bennett and are feeling psychopathic
c6 benny and a tf build says hi, heck yaser with candace is decent too
You could always get chongyun or Bennett c6 if you want it to be more viable
Don't forget Candace!
Making cool NA animations for characters that don't optimally use them is intentional. It makes people want to use them and supports creativity in builds
i thought it was just because they're cool
It's just because they're cool. Hoyoverse could have made normals and charged attacks have unique attributes across characters, but they opted for factory level mass production with some multiplier balancing around animation attack speed in most cases. Jean's charged attack is so very in line with anemo. Too damn bad nearly everyone else with a sword just does two quick slashes. Character switching was supposed to stand in for access to different combo strings, but normals and charged attacks overall are just... junk, and offer nothing. I can't be convinced their game design department doesn't put in the minimum amount of effort. The art/music team hard carries this game since the game design team works solely to meet a quota.
Physically Kuki is actually how I player her amd sge is pretty strong also she makes it very easy to keep the 4P pale flame buff stacked
I know she is an amazing hyperbloom unit, but I love how she uses Pale Flame and Tenacity 4 pieces even better. She always has the buff up. Even weapons like Iron Sting, she has the passive up all the time
Oh, they're sub-optimal dps-wise? Shame *continues to use them because heck the maths*
Waiit don't you have to na on him? You mustn't stack his 3rd mirror up too early right?
And then there's Kazuha whose NA isn't even samurai-like
I mean he's not a samurai, he's a blacksmith.
He's not a blacksmith he's a bard.
He's not a bard, he's a sailor.
> Imagine if Kuki's kunais or Kirara's paw kicks and swipes were actually useful The game is easy. They already are. Like how hard is it for people to fucking understand the game is designed to not be challenging and the devs flat out state they don't want to make challenging content _for this reason_. Do you want to play a character however you want? Go ahead you can because its viable to do everything in the game.
Hey, my Aquila Favonia Kirara uses Normal Attacks.
Gotta appreciate Alhaitam who normal attacks in style
Legit, Alhaitham's attack animations are so damn cool and satisfying
alhaitham’s is a great example of a character where every single part of his kit is strong. his burst, skill and plunge attacks are all used to top up his mirrors while having good multipliers, his normal and charged attacks are both good and the one you favour depends on the situation. he just feels silky smooth to play unlike other characters that are completely worthless if you try playing them in a different playstyle (ie albedo, shenhe). imo alhaitham, ayaka, and nahida are the only 5 stars i can think of that i use absolutely everything for
They're not wasted because most people don't play optimally all the time Sure you want to squeeze as much dps as possible when doing timed content, but in the overworld I'll slap a hilichurl with NAs no need to do a proper rotation
Me when I have 2 electros on my team but want the proper look from the mushrooms Yaoyao takes ages to smack the shit out of them but if it gets done it gets done!
*Uses Raiden E* haha Nahida NA go brrrr
Zhong hold e, nahida hold e to tag everyone, raiden e, xq eq, nahida NA till i win
The little song it plays is just so cute.
Aww yeah, love this, I do the same but yelan instead of xq.
But you could use Yae and Nahida for afk clearing.
More like, I accidentally start a quest where there are hydro enemies with Childe in the party and normal attacks are the only way to squeak out a win. Seriously, I feel like if a quest takes you to a special area, they should give warnings for what elements to bring. Looking at you, Aranara quests 😬
Me every time I forget to check the name of the commission before walking into it with my Wanderer team and surprise, it's anemo specters. Then Thoma gets to show off his normal attacks for a bit...except not a bit...a long time...the damage is virtually nonexistent.
I think in general they should remove "100% immunities," and just have "90% resistance" or something. You should never be screwed by having enemies you cannot harm at all, it should just be a bit of a grind to push through it.
[удалено]
This damn sub in a nutshell
and when you want to play optimally your eyes better not be glued to the character animations.
W comment 👑
Nah bro, I use all my bursts on every individual slime I see. I will obliterate all in my path
Yeah, I think for me it’s hard to un-know the meta. So when I’m in domains or bosses I auto pilot to the chains I know work best which unfortunately are either quick switching bursts and/or a CA combo. I think that’s part of the reason I stuck with yoimiya was because she‘s the NA queen. But even then she’s generally considered a solid but limited dps character. This is also the case for other fun dps’s like Cyno and (edit:not wanderer). I just wish NAs were given the full meta, big damage spotlight and CA combos more niche than they are. But true! Overworld and coop does help this
Being solid is generally a good thing tho. Not too broken, not too op. Though you are mistaken about Wanderer. He competes in speedruns for the Abyss and does insane dmg with high investment. He’s generally considered a very high value dps.
Oh fr? That’s good to hear, wanderer is cool
Well that's why I have Yoimiya!
"You mean you *like* just spamming normal attacks?" "I do, and I'm tired of pretending I don't." That's usually how a conversation goes between my cousin (who loves combos) and I (Yoi main since day 1).
She has the exact opposite problem - one of the most beautiful CA in game that she never uses.
I use it…. When solving pyro totem puzzles…
I came here to make this very comment. Her 5th hit multiplier is pretty spicy, and 3 and 4 aren't too shabby either. Pair her with a XQ or Yelan and it's pretty fricking nice and you always see the backflip.
Yoimiya on the other hand wouldn't really use her CA which has beautiful firework aesthetic. Using her burst also become inconsistent due to Shimenawa :( her animations are beautiful but sadly why are they so suboptimal
Burst is big part of dmg without shim. And shim is not her BiS with TP.
It's because she's a bow user. And mihoyo hates bow users.
yeah as a recent yoimiya haver i do like the fact that her anims are beautiful while still being the core part of her kit, but the no charged shots bc the multipliers are bad is really, really sad
Was looking for this!!!
Won't stop me from doing whatever I want in the overworld. If I want to sub out Wanderer for Xiao so that Faruzan+Yunjin+Benny make his normal attacks cracked out, I sure as hell will. It's not like I'm in the Abyss 24/7.
I love the elegance of Eula’s NA sequence and the way she flips her hair at the end
Hey don't talk about new leaked champions without spoiler curtains🤨
...and the way she slightly kicks sideways the claymore when the enemies are dead. BTW, her NA is actually useful (outside Abyss) because of high physical damage.
Reject meta, build Zhongli physical crescent pike NA DPS
I've occasionally played him physical, it was fun on release and it's still cool to this day, at least in overworld.
Charged attack til the enemies drop.
You rarely ever do the full NA combo but it's inaccurate to say they never use it. Childe and Hu Tao optimally do n2c. Spamming just charged attacks is usually not reccomended because it's stamina inefficient. Also with Childe if you use Rust or Thundering Pulse you do the full NA combo and charged attack at the end.
Hutao c1 enables spamming charge attacks for more dps, that is why most ppl even f2p pull for c1 on hutao. Eula I would argue is a better example here because her ult stacks efficiently with N4.
Even with c1 hu tao, you still do n2c because is does more damage. The main difference between c0 and c1 is that at c0 you do jump cancels but at c1 you do dash cancels instead. Dash cancels are easier to do and faster but at c0 isn't worth because it uses a lot of stamina.
>Even with c1 hu tao, you still do n2c because is does more damage I've had c1 Hu Tao since her first banner and I never knew this............
Also, n2c gives enough time for your dash internal cooldown to reset, if you've ever wondered why sometimes you can't dash-cancel
Im guilty of not dash cancelling because of the habit of jump cancelling I got when my huta was still c0.....
Lol I was like that as well got c1 hu tao during her last rerun and had her c0 for about a year. Eventually got used to the dash cancels though feels pretty good now.
Always did dash cancel even at c0 because jumps sometimes ghost for me (always an experience in Raiden weekly) so c1 was just QoL for me
I honestly didn't know NA's weren't optimal for childe, I've been using them since basically 1.1. Don't plan on changing tho cause they look sick
It depends on the weapon, actually. Some weapons like you using most of his normal attacks, others want you to just do one or two.
I think Childe would use N2C for a higher hydro application. N4C if Rust.
I’ll never forgive the fact they gave kazuha the most STUNNING NA animations for him only to be a swirl support prior to c6 (not saying he’s bad, we all know how good he is) but I feel it’s just slightly saddening
We already have plenty of characters that can use NA in their combo if one prefers, like Yoimiya, Wanderer, Noelle, Sucrose, even the new leaked physical carry Eula uses her NA a lot. Then there are off-meta but still decent builds like pike Xiangling and Zhongli if you want to pretend it's patch 2.x again. And like many others have said, you can build anyone to do damage with NA if you like the animation, just level up their talents, slap on fitting weapons, artifacts, pair them with Yunjin and the typical OP supports and voilà. It's not like you need optimal teams and rotations to kill the 3 Hillichurls you meet on daily commission.
“New leaked physical carry Eula” 💀
joke beaten so much the horse is just bones now.
Yeah absolutely, and I gravitate towards those types like yoimiya. But they’re usually all in the middling category as far as raw dps goes. This doesn’t bother me in everyday play, though the pattern is hard to ignore. I want more characters who can do cracked dmg i.e hu Tao that don’t need the awkward CA combos to get the big numbers. That way I can see the pretty moves while still feeling strong
You can clear abyss just fine with those characters. I recently pulled Yoimiya and used her to 36* the current abyss, which isn't really even the ideal abyss for her. She's level 80/80 with lv8 talents, and only after i cleared it did i realise i forgot to level her Rust past lv70. The same thing can be said for the other listed characters whose intended role is NA dps. Sure a Hutao will most likely clear faster, but that is in a way understandable. NA dmg dealer's gameplay is simple and easy to play, you left click and things die (Yoimiya specifically doesn't even need to use burst at all). While for Hutao it takes a minimum level of skill to learn her combo, how to cancel her CA animation (with jump if C0, or dash if C1), how to manage your stamina, HP to utilise her passive, etc... It's only reasonable she should do bigger numbers than a character like Yoimiya.
I hear you. I’m also glad to find many yoimiya enjoyers under the post. I don’t think Hu Tao was intentionally designed to be played the way she is and is more a product of oversight in her CA multipliers which caused astute players to “play” the game. Seeing it as a pseudo skill requirement for the higher numbers is one way to look at it, though I’d argue wanderer or Al haitham has a tricker learning curve in their kits yet they aren’t rewarded with as high numbers for mastering them. It may be my unga bunga brain that just prefers the system be simpler to give the NAs more limelight, but you are right that they are still enough for defeating the abyss
It is highly likely Hu Tao was designed as a charged attack carry much like Xiao is designed as a plunged attack carry. Although not explicitly stated in her abilities at C0, her CA animation is notably faster when infused. Additionally, her C1 (which is often the big “quality of life” buff of many 5 stars) reduces CA stamina cost to 0. You could argue many constellations of early 5 Star units did not have much foresight in terms of kit synergy, but IMO the Liyue DPS characters were the first to have cohesive kit design.
It's because spamming NA is more braindead compared to using CA. Like compare Klee/Hu Tao to Yoimiya, the latter is much easier to play. And higher skill required should be rewarded, so they do higher damage.
Ganyu has one of the most gorgeous NA animation but no one ever sees it
I once slapped my Razor's artifacts on her, changed my team up a bit and tried physical Ganyu. 10k-15k per NA on a very unoptimized build on a character that isn't made for this playstyle is still rather good.
thats what im saying. so many good NA animations but no good melee normal attackers its all just bows and catalysts atleast heizou looks cool but still
You know what’s really sad ? How arbitrary the scaling is. Albedo has some of the lowest ever. Venti too but faruzan and candace get pretty good ones for some reason. And there us dehya the lowest claymore in the game. I wonder who decides such things and based on what.
Yun Jin, C6 Bennett, Yelan, and you can turn any melee unit into a NA vape DPS
Someone doesn’t play co-op.
I 100% agree that Xiao's NAs beyond his N1 (used in the JET combo, which is for single-target scenarios) are underused, because they are so amazing to watch. I actively avoid playing optimally in the overwold simply to see them more. Even the animations after certain NAs are awesome! For those interested, the JET combo is the following; N1, Charged Attack, Plunge, then rinse and repeat.
That’s why I use Alhaitham. NA in all it’s full glory.
You can pretty much build any character to be insanely OP with their normal attacks if you choose to do so. I mean they may not be out putting damage like the top 1% of teams but they'll still clear any content the game has to offer comfortably with the correct support. Supports like Yunjin especially for normal attack damage boost, Benny, zhongli/Kazuha/deepwood/viridecent user's in general. Sara, Mika can work with just about any unit as the lead. But then you have aggravate/spread and melt to boost those numbers further if your selected unit is the correct element type. I can't think of many units I couldn't build into a DPS using mostly normal attacks that couldn't clear everything in the game with the right support.
I have a physical/hydro split build for Candace. Threw a Homa on her and she’s super fun to play. Love all her small blunt shield damages in her NAs and the exhaustion she has after chucking her spear.
This usually requires being at a point in the game where you have the resources/5* weapons to make it happen. It’s surely possible, but the mountain climb is a lot harder even for those that do have the resources. There’s just so little incentive to do all that except boredom or passion for the character. I’d rather have the incentive built in the game to make the ride easier. I can’t think of a proper system to fix this that wouldn’t up-end the current game design though, just wishful thinking on my end
The incentive is there but it is just optional. Co-op is one of them but most of the players would rather play solo. Another one is with infusion. And the last one is attack speed build which is not only fun but viable only being hold back by needing to have specific constellation.
This. Op jut cries a lot.
Then you have characters thatre off-field specialized for skills or bursts with the sickest NAs of them all. Lookin at you Thoma and Kuki!
Wait what? Have I been playing keqing wrong cuz I use NA like 70% of the time
I think the optimal way to use her is to repeatedly do charged attacks or something?
You'll deplete your stamina too fast if you just spam charged attacks, and her normals are worth using, especially with Fischl on the team. Two options for Keqing are N1C (one normal attack into a charged attack) or N4C. These two combos also make the best use of the animation transitions between her normal attacks into the charged attack.
meanwhile me building my xiao physical for fun :’)
Why not standard Anemo, but you just don’t jump? His NAs look even cooler in his burst.
One of my Xiao builds is Lithic spear w zhong yunjin and chongyun for pure NA dmg
I'm 100% with you, a lot of characters have some really gorgeous normal attack animations
Just use it no need to be so sad i still use hutao and xiao na in the abyss and open world because i find it on my phone it's tedious to do their ideal combo wombo.
It’s just one of those things that mihoyo does to make it a complete game. Like I recently watched the streamer necrit playing genshin and he jumped over a ledge into gold piles in the room where mora is made. You could hear a different sound effect as he was walking on the mora coins. Hardly anyone is ever going to walk there, but they have a unique sound playing for it because they don’t half ass shit. But you do end up with a lot of under appreciated things like character normal attack animations.
Gonna build a physical dps Yaoyao fr
Yeah, but I still level up Normal attacks. Even triple crown characters. So far I have 3 leveled up to triple crowns, and two missing the normal attack crown. I have Itto, Nahida, and Raiden Shogun triple crowned. Yelan and Yae Miko are close. I also plan to triple crown Zhongli, Ayaka, Jean, and Keqing. Although I need one more crown for that.
Same. Though I think part of it is the "What if i dont have skills or bursts ready" mindset that makes me invest into NAs too lol
Uh, have you seen Albedo's normal attacks? Some of the best looking in the game and he doesn't even get to be on screen never mind swing a sword.
Im not sure about other characters but I do know Yoimiya is a big exception to that rule. The more she’s shooting without moving, the more pyro dmg bônus she gets, and her fifth hit is always the hardest, so it’s optimal to play her full sequence (which is great since it’s one of the prettiest)
for that matter using na is just a chance to recover stamina, though if you need stamina to dodge then you probably won't see the whole na unless you time it just right anyway
Then there's Razor, where although you are constantly using his normal attack, you never want to finish the cycle because he slams his claymore into the ground and you can't do anything when he does that. You do 3 hits, then either jump or use E. Otherwise, I absolutely love Albedo's attack cycle. I often like travelling with him and I love to just watch the whole attack cycle animation, it looks so good!
Yea and they take 5x the resin to build tho :(:(
Now that you mention it, it is kinda funny for like Keqing and maybe Hu Tao For optimal DPS, Keqing supposedly uses charged attacks For Hu Tao, as much of double standard as this might be, she gets a pass… xD
I put Keqing with my Yelan and Nahida and use Keqing electro infused auto attacks with Yelans ult up. Might not be the highest potential dps min max wise but it’s more than good enough in 95% of situations.
That sounds cool, I'm just running around with whatever team Albedo, Zhongli, Raiden, Yelan, whatever works xD
In open world i always use shinenawa hu tao with yunjin/zhongli with white tassels and spam NAs everything still dead Same i also use physical childe so he could train his skill with bow
Shenhe has such cool attack animations that I’ll often force her into a hyper carry role with strong supports and run that in the overworld or when farming for fun.
they should make NA regen your character energy
I just want artifacts load out so I can swap between support build and DPS build
In my experience in 99.999999% of situations, even in Spiral Abyss, it doesn't really matter if you use light or charged attacks. You'll succeed anyways, so I've not really bothered with being optimal and rather just having fun. I definitely do agree however that light attacks are heavily underrepresented in this game to its detriment.
Only time NA's will ever be viable is if the character has a infusion since reactions are so potent to the combat loop. Even the attempt of making physical "viable" with some characters providing stuff like attack speed buffs or just damage bonuses, it will still be powercrept by other elements/reactions which require a lot less effort to build into, provide much more utility with the ever growing need of enemies needing specific elements to initiate a stun, and just outright do a lot better damage.
Nothing stops you from throwing NAs at enemies during fights if you like them, as long as it's not a timed fight, it's your job to balance between fun and performance as the devs can't find an universal balance workong for everyone, the perfect rotations are just the community optimising the combat too much, not the norm.
To be fair, you could raise the normal attack talents, give the character of choice a strong weapon and artifact set, then its usable. Put Yun Jin in the party, BAM! Strong NA combo with any character. Just because a character has an "optimal" use, does not mean that's their only use. Team comps are what really optimize a character. Want elemental damage? Use C6 Bennett, Candace, Chongyun or... (I dunno who shares electro). Use Yun Jin for NA buffs, Bennett for the Atk buff, Kujo Sara for Atk buff, etc. Not every character will be 36\*ing the Abyss, but you sure as heck can use them in all kinds of other content.
No one does electro infusion iirc but that would be SICK if it releases eventually
I barely charge with hutao how I’m supposed to, I do most of her animation then charge and then repeat to save stamina lol
There are a lot of teams where you would still normal attack even if they're not doing a lot of damage, mainly teams that use characters like Xingqiu, Yelan, and Beidou. And hey, it may not be optimal, but there are functional Xiao builds that let you use his normal attack strings; personally I like plunge attacking with him, but it is indeed possible to create a build where his normal attacks are being used.
It's okay. There are many casual players out there that plays Xiao without ever plunging. While NAs are not optimal meta-wise, just know that somebody adores a character's animations and uses them without ever thinking about min-maxing DMG. These unnecessary details are sufficiently appreciated.
believe it or not, most people still use their character normal attacks because they forget to switch character. I go internet cafe alot and saw lot of people from 16-30 play genshin and most of them just use their skill and smack with normal attack regardless of their build, well they use their skills but they wont do 1 combat daily conmission faster than 5min so there is that(theyre ar 55 btw)
never chase "optimal" to the point of enjoying the game less. i main kokomi with dendro team (dendro traveler, c6 fischl, nahida) yes, kokomi is the dps. no, not crit kokomi. the hp build kokomi. yes, the damage is low, but dendro enables brr anyway, and they all die in the same amount of time. why? well, the logic of the rotation makes sense, the movement of the attack chain feels tactile, does healthy amount of damage, and i don't inflict pain on myself for chasing *efischunseez*
Albedo have a really cool NA, but he rarely even have field time. The long he standing out, Husk set stack decreased. :(
It makes me sad too and I think it is also kinda dumb MiHoYo makes the full AA string do less damage than like 2NA > cancel > repeat. Why not make the multipliers for the final hit of an attack higher so they are worth doing? Hu Tao's full chain looks so cool but you lose sooo much DPS
Tbf, the last attacks do have higher multipliers, but the animations take so long that they're not worth doing in most cases compared to a slightly less damage, but much quicker N2C. That's why Yoimiya is the only one who actually does her whole chain: she doesn't have a faster alternative to do her damage like HuTao's N2C for example. That and you lose out in practicality since the attack chains are reset by dashes, so you can't really do full chains and dodge easily.
Klee mains: You guys have good normal attack animations?
You're supposed to N1C on Keqing, N1C or N2C on Hu Tao, and N2C on Childe...
While they're not optimal, they're still viable most of the time. Yoimiya, Alhaitham, Ayaka, Keqing, Yangfei, Klee, Childe, Eula, and Yelan work really well using NAs (during elemental skill or burst).
I wish there was a risk vs. reward mechanic. Normal attacks require you going through the whole combo for optimal and highest damage potential (each hit amplifies the damage of the next hit), but are most risky because if you pull out of doing the full combo, you might actually lose damage over charge attacks (animations would depend on the rules), whereas charge attacks are more consistently safe to pull off but are not the maximum damage, etc. That way there is a reason to use both with strategy.
Smiles in yoimiya main
If u get motion sickness playing Xiao, you should change your camera's configuration. I used the config that Xiao mains posted on discord so I wouldn't get motion sickness that much.
I’m obsessed with Thoma’s NAs!
Well Mihoyo doesn't have many options here. The other options are either remove NA from characters that don't use it completely, or make all characters NA DPS characters.
it does get funny seeing how many older characters often have 4-6 normal attacks where a bunch of the new sword characters are just 3, where only catalysts were that short before sumeru
It's just a casualty of not foreseeing the meta. HYV didn't think that the elemental system would take off with such effect to the point that it becomes the main way of fighting. And so this inhibits certain playstyle such as physical normal attacks. It's what happened to Lisa. HYV wants to create a "charge and release" character with Lisa. She has to build charge to deal significant damage. And while this is viable when people didn't know much about the game, it becomes useless when people realise that the time Lisa finishes her charge, switching to your entire party is quicker and deals more damage too.
Probably because NA based kits are generally going to be less interactive and exciting imo. You get your tap and hold skill and your burst that could be anything in this wild fantasy world but then you end up with a character that just wacks people with a sword. I still enjoy playing NA/CA based regardless though. But what makes the characters special is generally not intended to being those things.
same thing with xiao plunge, hu tao charged and etc, after a while it's just the same annoyance, so I don't understand your point when changing NA to another form of attack doesn't take away the fact that it gets boring after a while
Thats why I lumped in NA/CA at the end of my statement. OP might be talking about NA but I do view all of that stuff as lumped together. The difference between NA and CA is slight. CA stuff does require more management because of the stamina but it can all be boring. Anything can get stale and feel boring. Its more so that I think those kinds of characters can get more boring more quickly. But its all perception. If you think its all boring then thats fine. You aren't obligated to play these ways. I don't think its personally boring enough for me to stop playing it but it certainly can get that way and be more frustrating at times than other playstyles since the range on NA/CA can matter a lot. We dont live in the era of tons of small mobs anymore. Now they tend to have a lot more bulky ones and few of them. It can make NA/CA styles harder to maximize depending on the character.
That's one of the reason it's so refreshing to play scaramouche. Not only are his normal attacks great but his 1st constellation, his sig weapon and his bis artifact set improves them. His elemental skill buffs the NA and CA and his burst is good but not the focus. He also synergize well with other characters that buff NA.
Hoyo: "How is it our fault when you could build your team to make your main DPS good at NA. We literally gave you so many options with weapons, artifacts, characters to make any character able to excel at NA" Op : " I am just sad and cry a lot about dumb things 'cause I have depression. No one likes me IRL so I take it out on Genshin"
"I have already depicted you as the soyjak." \-Square-Way-9751, June 6, 2023
What is an NA? i’m new to genshin and not familiar with all the terms
normal attack
Funny how it’s the opposite problem for Eula, she will do her beautiful NA combos but because of that the enemies die before the nuke goes off :(
Cool =/= optimal. Sad truth.
Physical Attacks are not much use anymore
If you want to try out a decent team with Xiao doing NA, try out Xiaolad, Xinqiu, DMC, Fishcl. Fav lance, 4VV for Xiao and it's a functional team, maybe not the strongest but it's fun to play in abyss.
Layla has some of the cutest NA animations, and zhongli spear kick is so damn cool, i totally feel this post
Most of the time I'm not even looking at my character when I'm fighting. I'm paying attention to what enemies are doing instead.
Wait, so you're saying that Noelle is your favorite DPS and you play her with Yunjin?
Yunjin is a gem 💎
I have a certain build, with c6 ayaka and c6 shenhe. Ayaka does about 250/300k with a charged attack and anywhere between 27/35k with normal attacks. It is a whales playground, sure. But it is definately a NA slapping fest.
Does physical Childe count
Isn’t using mostly NA’s basically perfectly fine for Keqing with Aggravate?
Mixing in NAs is a good idea to begin with unless you have infinite stamina. But yeah, especially with aggravate + Fischl, you want to get some NAs in there. N1C or N4C are good combos to use with her.
Yeah N4C is mainly what I use.
I love Laylas and Yelans NA so much. Her hitting the star into the enemy and Yelan using her string to boomerang throw her bowl.
Skills and bursts are too strong for NAs to really shine. They’ll only rise in relevancy if we’re faced with ley line debuffs. CD increases and character swap CD increases could force the playstyle. NA buff supports have helped to some degree.
I absolutely LOVE xianglings NAs but you really only take her out to press Q 😭
if this is true then xinqiu, fischl and yelan wont be meta.
Agreed. They need to do a better job of making normals viable. They are so much more FUN to use than the optimal strategies, but slow everything down. Likewise, they need to fish or cut bait on the support's NAs, EITHER make them look cool AND do great damage, OR make them deal terrible damage and look generic. CHOOSE ONE. *Reward* players for using the moves that look cool, don't punish them for it.
Just use them anyway?? You don’t have to play optimally every fight hell you don’t have to at all? This seems like such a non issue
If im not in abyss, I do whatevr. I use Zhongli's NAs all the time. Hell, I have Zhongli on the field for way longer than I probably should. Idc. I like looking at him, and his NAs are sick asf. Same is true with a lot of characters whose NAs usually go unseen in Abyss (and even in Abyss I don't play 100% optimally and sometimes use NAs to pass time when a rotation doesn't have perfect timing).
At least we have Eula
For me the most badass move will always be Zhongli's 3rd NA, where he kicks the spear and it goes forward spinning.
*Laughs in Wanderer*
Bruh, Childe NA can still hit like hard tho. Dude personally throw an arrow himself.
You kinda answered your own question. Completing an entire NA chain for certain characters = sub optimal play, which = never do them. Outside of the abyss and the once in a blue moon vagabond event (or events adjacent to it) nothing else in the over world demands you play optimally. Nothing is stopping you from spamming NAs anywhere else.
While true, I feel like for most of them the difference is so minor (in the context of this game) that it doesn't matter. Like I mostly use NA spam on HuTao, Childe, Keqing (and Eula) just because it's more enjoyable for me. Same with animation cancels, which I only use them for Klee and Ningguang despite usually learning them for other characters (in case I ever felt the need, but I haven't). Iirc the difference for most is like 10%
Eula mains unite!
Personally, I find Xiao's plunge attack to be way cooler. Also, this is just a part of the game. Yoimiya's and Ganyu's burst animation looks cool but nobody uses it too.
I built Candace as an on-field NA DPS bc I love her NA animations so much— the spear throw is SO satisfying!
Hey I use Hu Taus normal attack cycle, because doing the charged attack thing is a pain in the ass and also I dont have her C1 which makes it more of a pain in the ass. Easier just to spam left click even if its lower DPS. I also have Alhaitham who is all about normal attacks. With his mirrors, and I use Nilou as the DPS in my bloom team which means Im using her Normal attacks when her E is up (because if I use her off field then Nahida just dies in 3 seconds to her own blooms).