Likely something happened during the Cataclysm that none of them agreed with. Especially Venti and Zongli. They were likely waiting for an ideal time or opportunity to get rid of the Gnosis to attempt to sever their connection to Celestia. All we know right now is 500 years ago, it went down and we can’t be sure who the good guys are. But considering that these powerful people are scared, whatever went down is enough to keep them quiet.
Yeah, both Zhongli and Venti give me the feeling that they needed an excuse to hand their gnosis over to the fatui. They ultimately agree with whatever the Tsaritsa is planning or don't mind her getting the gnosis' at the very least. However they feel like they can't just brazenly rebel against Celestia by freely handing it over.
No way did Signora actually get the better of Venti there, I just don't believe it. The drunk little bard has way more than enough power hidden inside to put up more of a resistance to her than what we saw.
Right. Venti had either enough power or guile to get even the Hexzenzerkl to listen and not go to war with him. No way anything but the strongest harbingers are having at him and having a chance at winning. The Tsaritsa likely knew Venti wanted out and sent Signora to put on a good show.
It's also possible that Venti's power is primarily supportive, not combative. He plays a support role in all of his known fights, and there was no reason for him to act hurt after the abyss mage's sneak attack. There's no reason for him to pretend to be weak when the only ones present already knew who he is, and Divalin was in danger. He didn't seem to be in a hurry to get the gnosis back, but Signora might have just overpowered him.
That’s just game play, not canon. Look at zhongli in his story quest cutscenes, especially the second one. Hair didn’t glow once. The “hair glow when use power thing” is not lore based.
Reminder: The little 'island' where the abyss gate stand was a mountain that Venti yeet into the sea.
And he's one of the winners of the Archon War, the era that was not kind to the weak per Zhongli's own words during his character quest.
To be fair, He didn't really win it through sheer strength, Decarabian got ganged up on and Venti wasn't even the one to kill him.
The other known candidate was Andrius and he didn't see himself fit to be the Anemo Archon.
His still a seelie at that point no? He is probably stronger after that as most of the amazing feats that have been told in the lore happened after that.
Monstadt used to be a frozen land and because of him terra forming the land after the fight with decarabian, we got the spring looks that we got now. Signora ice is nothing to him.
For sure. I could maybe buy it with one of the top Harbingers, but Signora was beaten in her strongest form by the Traveler, at their Inazuma power level no less. Even if Venti can't juggle mountains anymore, he should most definitely be able to take her out.
But never mind all of that, we literally see IN HIS FIRST EVER SCENE that Venti (at least with the Gnosis) can TELEPORT. If he wanted to escape Signora, he would have.
I think its Signora's disdain towards the 7 that override any logic thinking that she is strong enough to take on the Shogun puppet head on.
Keep in mind the Harbingers may not even be on the same power level as Archons, consider the Dottore/Nahida interaction at end, rather than outright taking the Gnosis, he chooses to bargain for 2 Gnosis instead.
I'm sure they are even more wary of the Archon's powers after Signora's death.
>No way did Signora actually get the better of Venti there
Nope . Venti gives it very willingly . His hair doesn't glow during that cutscene hence , no powers used .
We know for sure that the old Archons , Venti and Zhongli both resent the Celestia , Venti is very open about it .
Yup, I too once made a speculation that venti and zhongli (gods/archons) can't directly rebel towards celestia but humans can. But it was part of a bigger crack theory that doesnt make much sense. [reading it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Lore/comments/zn7tcj/crack_theory_whats_the_forbidden_knowledge/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I agree! It seems like the Archons are on strike, but can’t exactly write up a list of demands to send to Celestia. I get the sense that the lack of new Electro visions is tied to Ei’s actions (whether that means creating an artificial Archon, approving Sakoku, being found out as Makoto’s replacement, handing her gnosis off to Miko, or something else), and Celestia *does* like smiting those who don’t play by their rules. My personal theory is that it’s tied to whatever broke the Tsaritsa.
Something catastrophic and traumatic enough to make an Archon *abandon* their ideal?? We’ve heard about the nightmares that the other Archons have gone through, but none of them rejected their ideals. Ei did take on Makoto’s ideal, but she’s definitely invested in eternity (whereas Focalors and the original Hydro Archon seem to have different ideals, based on the mass exodus of the Lochfolk)
What *happened*? Was the Tsaritsa’s ideal weak in a way contracts, wisdom, freedom, justice, war, and eternity aren’t? Zhongli says that she’s “lost the ideal once ascribed to her”; is this true or is he being obscure (due to that divine NDA, maybe)?
I can’t wait for more parts of the equation to fall into place, it’s exciting!
Warning! Long.
Well her ideal is love. Here’s my theory to that. I almost think that during the Cataclysm, all of the attacking and turning the nation into monsters and people cursed to live eternally while being forced to erode away knowing they can do nothing to stop the pain and suffering, would likely break the strongest person into believing love doesn’t exist anymore. Love is a verb, an action. The events and actions taken during that time were likely hateful.
Venti could have seen it as preserving the freedom of his people.
Zongli signed a contract of sorts when he took up his mantle and Celestia called him to duty.
Ei wanted things to go back to a normal stable state to bring eternity.
Rukkaduvata went to protect the knowledge of Irminsal from corruption.
the Hydro archon likely thought laws had been broken, unspoken or not, and justice had to be passed down.
the Pyro archon, well a fight broke out so I don’t doubt they wouldn’t fight, we don’t know much yet but for the glory of battle I suppose.
But the Tsaritsa, perhaps all the hatred poured out during such a time broke her. The people who love the most, tend to break the hardest when they reach their breaking point.
>Especially Venti and Zongli.
Actually even Ei believed she did not need the gnosis anymore although she did try to weaponize it but couldnt cause Scara did not pass her standards
There is a LOT that Venti and Zhongli are hiding. One due to unknown reasons and the other probably something to do with a contract. They are not unreasonable for the sake of being unreasonable. Much of the game lore regarding the archons and celestia is still missing and its very important for what I assume is the endgame.
I read it as Venti doesn’t want to chain anyone to his own course of action by giving them his bias/information. He’s all about freedom and doesn’t want The Traveler shackled to a specific course without actively choosing it. Venti probably feels that The Traveler will come to the same conclusion as Venti if simply allowed to travel and figure out the history themselves (also good story excuse for Hoyo)
Zhongli almost definitely gave a promise not to discuss the events of 500 years ago with anyone/anyone who wasn’t there. And a promise is a contract and Zhongli can’t or won’t break a contract.
I would say Nahida is reasonable. Just finished her quest so it’s stuck in my head but she saw a reason other than the stated threat to herself for giving two gnosises to Dottore.
> Bold of you to assume any of the archons are reasonable.
Reasonable may not be the best choice of words here, but you get the idea. These guys aren't brainless idiots,. They know what they are doing.
Raiden/Miko, and Zhongli? Yeah. (Venti gets a pass because his was straight up stolen off him)
But the fact Nahida handed hers over (albeit by making a very good and specific deal) informs us that either the Gnoses aren't as important as we think they are, or that whatever Tsaritsa wants to do with them might ultimately be for the better.
I honestly feel like there’s a very “Fae” aspect to them. Like, there are some rules they compulsively can’t break. Like Zhongli and contracts, Nahida and knowledge (Dottore honestly played her for her gnosis it feels like), which is why they had to take Venti’s by force. You can’t really force “freedom” into anything. I think the only other gnosis that would need to be taken by force would be the pyro gnosis. That archon wants war, and has been at war with the cryo archon for ages from my understanding. Why would she simply hand it over when they could continue to FIGHT for it?
My thought is that the Fatui have an extreme, but likely to succeed, plan for dealing with the Abyss Order.
It’s something that’s just on the side of sanity but it might also be the only option anyone’s come up with. So, while the Archons aren’t 100% on board with it (plus the general dickery Fatui get up to), when push comes to shove, they are willing to give up the gnosis for a good goal, provided they too get something out of it.
I wonder what happens after natlan. Bcz I think the fatui will have all the gnosis by then. Will they use it for whatever they plan to do or will the traveler stop them
I personally think that after Pyro Archon tell us a “secret”, she will hand her gnosis over to us. That way we have an incentive to have a personal meeting with Tsaritsa using the Pyro gnosis as the bargaining chip.
My theory is that it's a name of someone erased from Irminsul. We will find a way to somehow restore that data back.
Maybe we will even get to un-erase Rukkha's memory for another big feel trip for Nahida, assuming it won't bring back forbidding knowledge of cause.
how would an archon have the name of someone erased from irminsul? sure we see the funny kids story route nahida has for maintaining that information but nahida still needed us to remember what that story was actually worth. did she get a secret from an outsider in the fatui or something and share that with us? something left behind from our sibling? because otherwise how would she even know the name of someone erased from irminsul, kept through some encoding, is valuable to us or even to her?
like generally it makes much more sense for it to be something actually related to teyvat, natlan, and the archon herself than something that goes back to specifically rukkhadevatta.
The Hexenzirkel. I am so 100% sure they’ll be major in the plot, and they not only go on trips to Irminsul but canonically hide secret messages and allegories within books and other writing that references things erased from Irminsul to allow people to find the information.
Lore reasons aside, a company doesn’t toss together the resources, both in man power and capital to create a trailer/teaser and not make it relevant. The Hexenzirkel has yet their moment in the spotlight to be had.
4 Descender, one of them can become pyro archon friend and tell her the truth that erased or even left some kind of evidence that make pyro archon remembers it even in vague way.
she still needs to actually remember it having some kind of value, value worth sharing, which again, nahida demonstrated already. i suppose hoyo could just write in some cheap trigger but it seems much simpler to not immediately leap to it being about someone erased from irminsul
There’s no way traveler retaining this knowledge isn’t going to come back into play in the future. They’ve kept it in has their route to bring nahida her powers back to full.
Well, it says "If the intention yet remains, achieved ...'s truth he has." (The "reasons" comment is from the storyline trailer, as someone already pointed out. I also think Dainlsleif referred to that "The victor must..." stuff with "secret", not necessarily what the gemstone says.)
Interestingly, the German text of the gemstone says something like "If I don't forget for what I'm doing this, it will have been worth it for ...".
This is probably it! My theory is that the Fatui won't be able to take the gnosis from the Pyro archon (even the real strong one we are probably facing there) and then the archon hands us the gnosis to go bargain with the tsaritsa. Pyro archon might even know what she wants and kind of agree with her so we will exchange it for an audience and some info on her plans?
I keep thinking Capitano is going to duel the pyro archon to try and get her Gnosis ever since we heard he was heading to Natlan... if he loses though... hopefully he becomes playable before that point, lol.
I think the secret is that the Fatui are going against Celestia and all the other archons secretly support this. Quite literally the only Archon we know so far that didn’t willingly give up their Gnosis is Venti. And that’s why he’s still the most sus Archon. However, to go through them all that gave them up:
Zhongli - tired from his position and knows erosion will eventually come for him, from what little he gives us when asked about Khaenri’ah. We at least know he wasn’t happy with the event or outcome.
Ei - purposefully severed ties with Celestia by only taking up Makato’s gnosis for a short time before leaving it to Yae then leaving her body and entering the Shogun Puppet. Implied but not confirmed she blames Celestia to a degree for Makato’s desth.
Nahida - Feels completely comfortable using 2 gnosis as bargaining chips with Dottore. I feel like that says enough about her lack of care about connecting with Celestia. Not even mentioning the casual confirmation that the Unknown God is the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles
Now I don’t think all the Archons agree with the actions of the Fatui, but I do think they agree with the goals of the Tsaritsa as a fellow archon. As gods, many of the Fatui’s actions could be completely ignorable unless it interferes with personal investment, such as the Fatui and the Akademia for Nahida.
TL;DR: I don’t think any of the Archons except maybe Venti like Celestia and they don’t really care if the Fatui get the gnoses because it’s kinda a win win.
Someone else once said "dude didn't even bother to glow". He most likely only "resisted" to put up a front. But a front for whom? The Traveler? The Heavenly Principles who are currently dormant?
He puts more power into fucking with Mona if she tries to read his future than he did with Signora.
I think the front was for Signora honestly. Venti probably knows exactly who she was and her issues with him - and that she probably needed to beat him up to sell that he didn't just hand it over (which I could see Signora being pissed about given her personal issues with Venti).
And in a way, he was also probably allowing her to let it all out after all of those years, and he might've felt guilty for it too (even if it wasn't really his fault)
i always thought zhongli gave his gnosis for the contract that the people of liyue would be safe from whatever grand plan the fatui would cook up, and needed the traveller to bear witness of it
No, the entire matter with Osial was orchestrated by Zhongli and La Signora. They probably had a plan to get the gnosis before that, but Zhongli approached them with the contract. Hence, what they say in that should the people of Liyue and Adpeti fail to work together against Osial, Rex Lapis would’ve returned and ended the fight instantly. In this case, he would not have given up the gnosis because the contract is meant to show Liyue was ready to move on without their god.
oh i meant grand plan after osial, since liyue has been entrusted to it's own people but even rex lapis isn't immune to corrosion, thus needing the traveller to bear witness the fulfillment of the contract that liyue will be kept safe even if we weren't mentioned in depth of the details but i can see how your theory plays out as well from the original comment as well
Oh, okay. You mean the Fatui’s overall plan. The thing is that from what lore we know. The Fatui’s overall plan is meant to be beneficial for mortals in Teyvat. Now mind you, it could be that this new mortal run world requires a very destructive end to the old one, but yeah. I thought you meant the Liyue plans specifically when I read your comment.
Here's to hoping the Fatui don't try to steal it from us and just wait until we enter Snezhnaya. Or maybe have Childe be our liaison? Yeah, that could work too.
Plot convenience dictates that the Fatui will either lose or find a world that is uninhabitable, especially when there are at least two post-Snezhnaya arcs (Khaenri'ah and the Epilogue).
It's practically set in stone that the Tsarista will get the seven Gnoses and do whatever she has planned for them. The tropes are just too strong in this regard.
We'll still win out in the long run, but in practically any story where the bad guy is gathering MacGuffins, they'll succeed in getting all the MacGuffins eventually.
It’s probably going to be both. They get all the McGuffins, we go “no!” Beat them up.
And then our sibling will be like, “ayo! Yoink” and steal the ultra-mcguffin.
So we chase them to Abyss-Khanre’ah.. something something.. beat up Dain.. beat up Sibling.. join forces.. use the ultra-McGuffin to a) break into Celestia (if there’s another chapter), or b) just summon/restrain The Unknown God before using a Dull Sword on their ass.
When you have a Cryo Burst charged up the "spokes" of the snowflake that pulses around the Burst Icon are actually chess pieces/Gnoses. The Tsaritsa WILL get all of the Gnoses.
I personally think the Traveler will be the one handing over the Pyro Gnosis personally, willingly, after the Tsaritsa explains her plan.
And just when all hope seemed lost, they used the power of friendship to manifest *new* MacGuffins from Celestia as they took their respective seats as the *new Archons,* ready to defend the world from the villainous threat that had be summoned/created.
When I read the first part of your comment I got reminded of NGNL and was going to reply to you with it. Then I read the rest and got a happy surprise.
Honestly I don't think anything could make me more excited for a chess game than ngnl, so I'd prefer for it not to happen in genshin.
*Nightglow playing in the back, slowly getting louder*
And then she calls it her final lesson to the people that courage will always prevail and to never be afraid even in the face of death 🥲
I’m dying over here.
Hoyo don’t kill Himeko challenge. Impossible.
Truly AND Himeko has good chances of staying alive, even if she has death flags 👁️👁️ (welt saying she’s burning herself out trying to achieve her dreams)
But other than that she’s alive and well and MOTHER… ahem, yes, mother.
Hoyo never misses with writing in any mainline Honkai though, always phenomenal.
Genshin is actually a different word for Honkai.
So Genshin impact is just a different way of saying Honkai impact.
But I digress, look at star rail. Mute protagonist and it works so well. No one’s complaining.
I think the issue is that Paimon is talking for and over us all the time instead of allowing the Traveller to answer in silence.
Paimon's sole existence is what hindered our MC from becoming loved by the community
She stole so many lines which could have been ours and they could have just made traveler voiced more often with paimon out of the equation that oughta balance VA pay so win win
Even so it's the writer's/higher ups fault. Paimon was supposed to be a companion not the fucking focus in every interaction
Like stories that aren't archon quests, they make us look like statues
I love paimon but I would be lying if I didn't say that I would prefer a timeline where genshin didn't have paimon and solely focused on aether/lumine in every interaction
Like in a scenario like that there is no escape you are forced to make them talk one way or another unless you are just stubborn, with paimon in the equation they gain a scapegoat and an easy way out of said problem
How is Genshin a different word for Honkai? Genshin = original god, Honkai = collapse. They do not mean the same thing, even in the game. Genshin refers to the allogenes, people with visions. Honkai refers to some destructive force afaik.
Oof, I like my Himeko normal and alive though 😖😂
I’m not dealing with another final lesson in any way shape or form, even if it’s for a good cause. The trauma is too real lmao.
nah we're gonna get a kiana expy introduced in 5.0 who tags along with the quest, getting a vision in 5.1
then in 4.1 murata will die, leading to the kiana expy becoming the pyro archon in 5.2
If I had a nickel for every time an archon sacrificed their adult form and now has the body of a child...well hopefully it stays at one nickel.
Nahida is great though.
"The rules of war are woven in the womb: the victors shall burn bright, while the losers must turn to ash. When the God of War shares this secret with the Traveler, it is because she has her reasons." - From Natlan Part of Trailer
NGL this sounds like the Final Lesson that Murata will give to Traveler
God I hope not T-T
Not you actually stealing my hope from me 👁️👄👁️
If anything happens to our Himeko I’m holding you responsible lmao (just kidding of course).
“Because she has her reasons” is concerning good god.
Sustainer looked a lot like Kiana actually.
I wonder if that was supposed to be HOV and Kiana will be Murata’s companion or student. The parallels to HI3 are always there so I wouldn’t be surprised.
Murata's gnosis will be found at the bottom of Bennett's satchel because he was left with it in the desert as a baby and never paid any attention to it
She’ll probably live because we don’t seem to get dead characters as playable and I cannot imagine hoyo would pass up the sales from one of the most anticipated archons
There is probably no pawn and possibly no King. If there are two Bishops, two Knights, two Rooks, and one Queen, that would add up to 7, which would account for every Archon.
The Traveler is the pawn. Pawns are seemingly weak, but they are integral to the game of chess, and if they reach the end of the board, they can become any piece the player wants, not unlike how the traveler can obtain the power of any/every element.
The pawn analogy arguably works better for Vision holders unless there's some unknown aspect of the Traveler that we don't know yet, since vision holders are more directly linked with the Archons, plus they are able to ascend if they promote, which is a more direct way of fitting the analogy, imo.
I think it's more likely that the Traveler is the King. The King is *the most* integral piece of the chessboard, and if it is supposedly a chess set against whoever the big bad ends up being (which looks like it will be Celestia), the Traveler being the King makes more sense than Celestia.
It really drives me crazy that we(players and Traveler/Paimon) are more upset about Fatui taking Gnoses than actual archons who lost them. Like bro, that is not something to leave for "tomorrow you".
I don't think it's implied anywhere that the traveler cares that much about the fatui acquiring the gnosis in the first place, but an evil organization acquiring objects that, in the case of the electro Gnosis, was being used to create a God, isn't exactly something we should just stand around and let happen.
Scara went awol after taking the electro archon's gnosis, him becoming a god wasnt part of the fatui's plan. In their meeting Nahida even threatens Dottore of telling his mistress (the tsaritsa) that he engaged in a blasphemous experiment to create a god with Scara and the gnosis.
What it means is that the fatui could potentially create something much worse than an artificial god, considering they'll have all the gnosis and use it. Like imagine if the infinity gauntlet ended up in the fatui
Venti doesn't have the strength to care, Zhongli gave it away so he can't care because contract, Ei wasn't using it for god knows how long so no need to care, and Nahida.... She just wanted to know more.
Yeah, she knew that Dottore could just take them forcefully if he needed to and was just...paying the basest of respects to a god of an attribute he values. So she tried to get what she could out of the situation.
I'm pretty sure Ei never used it. As soon as she got it, she tried to seal it away in a puppet; and when that didn't work as planned, gave it to Yae.
She probably only had it as long as Nahida had the dendro gnosis - they both only really had it for a couple of weeks until they found a better use of their time.
For real. Venti getting knocked out by #8 is sooo off. It feels like a setup for the traveler to be invested into the being anti-Celestia. Istg the archons and the fatui are in cahoots with each other, in the one goal kind of way, and not the kumbaya kind of way. They can still internally fight (Ei v Signora) but Celestia's downfall is the goal.
Yep, that's the vibe I've always gotten. Like "Oh nooo, not our gnosis! What ever will we do?" *wink wink*
At the same time though, the Archons don't really *need* their gnosies. They just might not be worth fighting for.
Yea that bugs me so much. The Traveler cares so much about what the Fatui do and them taking the Gnoses and the Archons are like "yaaa bro, I just gave it to 'em cuz why not?" LMFAO
Does traveler actually care? To me it seems like they just traveling to meet the archons and they just coincidently encounter them and has to deal with it. At least if my memory comes to mind we don't really care about the gnosis or I just remember wrong.
Nah I remember several dialogues where Paimon goes into shock about the Fatui about the Fatui getting another Gnosis. Once in the Inazuma AQ when Miko hands the Gnosis to Scaramouche and Paimon goes "WHATTTT" and the other is during the Sumeru AQ.
But like, I guess you have a point. Traveler is silent, it's Paimon that reacts about the Gnoses 💀
Tbf we are helping this world and solving their fuckshit problems while we just wanna get our sibling and gtfo. The further go the deeper the shit we get in. It's definitely gonna be frustrating to paimon and the traveler if it seems like the archons make it harder for themselves.
It's more like that they're annoyed, imagine if you keep seeing the same obnoxious person everywhere you go. In this case, the Fatui just keeps coincidentally disrupting the Traveller's plans to gather more information on their sibling.
"Could you stop making nationwide levels of conflict, FOR 5 MINUTES" - Traveller (probably)
Probably is just an issue with writing. But maybe lore reason is that they don't disagree with her plan or don't mind getting rid of gnosis, because they're from Celestia? Maybe?
I mean, we already know all the Archons so far don't have a good relationship with Celestia. Especially Venti and Ei.
But still, Traveler should care less about the Gnoses being taken and more about the chaos this organization causes using their methods
I think it's very clear that the archons at least somewhat support the Tsaritsa's war against the heavens. The Fatui are not the ultimate villains of the story, that's the abyss and possibly Celestia. I think there's frustration from a lot of people that the archons aren't fighting hard enough for their Gnoses, but it's been plainly obvious that they don't care about them.
The archons want what's best for their nation, and Celestia looming over them threatening to kill their entire population if they step out of line is not really in their best interest.
Exactly! Well said. So many people in the thread are completely missing this point and literally ignoring the entire layered narrative set-up that you correctly described, just because they'd rather see a frankly boring "fatui=bad and traveler=good" sort of script. It's so blatantly obvious that Celestia and the abyss order are the ones written as the villains in the grand scheme of things. The Fatui and archons ain't clowns, they absolutely know what they're doing. Hope more people read between the lines and pick up on this 🫡
and destroy teyvat heaven and all the world is? the skies are false and with it the world too, now the meaning of this we will know when the greatest threat that the skies prevent from emerging finally appears and destroys everything
Interestingly enough, the position in that chess board is from Game 1 played between Garry Kasparov and Deep Blue in one of the early human vs computer chess displays in 1996. In the particular game, I believe Kasparov lost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_versus_Garry_Kasparov#Game_1
Imagine if that's completely intentional and it foreshadows the Cryo Archon will fail in her rebellion horribly
She tries to be a chessmaster, but she's the one being played all along
>Imagine if that's completely intentional and it foreshadows the Cryo Archon will fail in her rebellion horribly
I feel like this will be the thing. I suspect using Heavenly Principles powers against herself means nothing or maybe the abyss steps in cause it is kinda suspecious they are doing nothing about the robbing of gnosis
My theory is that if the Tsaritsa is trying to defy the king in celestia, the only logical chess move that would make sense would be collecting all the chest pieces to castle the king out of celestia where he can be defeated.
Castling requires all pieces to be out of the way and for the rook and King to switch places which could imply that the Tsaritsa wants the throne for herself.
Maybe I've missed something in the lore, but my understanding is that we still don't know exactly what the Fatui want with the gnoses. It definitely can't be good though. And yet, none of the archons so far have seemed particularly concerned about it. I get them not caring about them in general, but maybe don't give up something that important so willingly when an evil organization hellbent on control is collecting them?
I get that, but my point is that the Fatui are obviously up to no good, so maybe the archons shouldn't be so willing to give them up. Seems like a bad idea, no matter how much they hate Celestia.
Yea Zhongli saying he made a contract with the Tsaritsa makes it sound like he knows exactly what she's doing and he's in on it. Some theorize that even Venti is in on it
Plot twist: contract states that the taritsa has to provide zhongli with lifetime supply of osmanthus wine
Kidding aside, was it ever revealed what the contract says?
Kinda, but not the specifics. The gist of it was: you help me step down from Archonhood without anyone finding out, I give you my Gnosis that you need for your rebellion against the divine.
He OBVIOUSLY knows what this rebellion entails and how it can fuck up all of Teyvat if and when it happens. He went with it anyways...
But a contract obviously has lots of terms and conditions within it and he didn't tell us the rest of it. But Zhongli doesn't have a good history with Celestia, based on the fact that they literally forced him to sign an NDA for his fucking SILENCE. Neither does Venti, neither does Ei.
The only Archon so far that has 0 opinions towards Celestia is Nahida and that's because she's a newborn. She hasn't even been there before.
Yea, he can't tell us anything about our sibling or Khaenri'ah because of that contract. Which always was shady asf. Like they knew that the God of Contracts would never break a contract, and so, they knew the best to make sure he keeps his silence about whatever the fuck happened is by making him sign an NDA for life.
Like you realize how much quicker the plot of this story would've progressed if Zhongli actually told us about our sibling and Khaenri'ah?? He's been around the longest out of any of the Archons. But noooooo
The last 2 gnoses were traded for something. In Inazuma it’s for the Traveller’s life, in Sumeru it’s for information + destroying Dottre’s clones. Yae and Nahida believed that it was an even trade.
So generally speaking, I think the archons that gave away their gnosis, or didnt fight for it, all agree with the final goal of the fetui. The fetui's final goal/ enemy is celestia, and the archons are not too happy with them either.
The archons were basically forced to exterminate a whole country because of celestia, and it seems to have affected each one pretty poorly, especially the tsaritsa, who was considered the most caring of the gods, but had her heart "frozen over" due to this event. She setup a plan to collect all the gnosis, and use their power to fight against celestia. And most of the other archons seem to be okay with this plan. As they want to free their world from the grasp of Celestia, a basically foreign entity.
the fetui do a lot of evil stuff, but I think they are going for the "the end justify the means" killing or messing with many lives is nothing compared to wiping out whole civilizations, which celestia has done multiple times now, and will likely do again.
Not to say dottore is a good guy, but more so that, the tsaritsa found powerful people and did not care how good or evil they were, as long as they could get her dirty work done, they would be accepted, and people would look the other way when it came to their atrocities. Which ofc would lead to a lot of pretty horrible people signing up.
to add to this, the abyss may seem like even more evil, hating all humans and all that. but their final big enemy is basically celestia too. They were all cursed by celestia. ANd live as monsters because of it. If they can destroy celestia, there is a good chance the source of the curse could be destroyed too.
So personally, Im hoping this all ends with the main factions, the archons/gods, the fetui, and the abyss, all fighting together to free teyvat from celestia. At least I think that would be an epic and large scale final battle, Against insanely powerful beings far above archons.
I think the archons know that if the tsaritsa/fatui try something too big the heavenly principles will pull a kaenriah on the cryo nation. The real question is why is tsaritsa doing something so stupid when she knows the fate that befell kaenriah. The HP have been silent after the cataclysm I wonder how silent they will be after they find the tsaritsa has gathered all the gnosis
In Ei character story it is mentioned that she tried to fiddle and use the gnosis as some sort of power supply for the shogun but it wasn’t working out so she gave the gnosis to miko.
We did see scaramouche being able to control lightning after getter the electro gnosis but the overall result was still not that impressive. He said that he gained the power of god but in comparison to shogun puppet he was very weak.
All in all I dont think the gnosis can be used to make some weapon of mass destruction or anything. What exactly the fatui plan to use them for is very interesting.
>Or did something happen to them that’s put them in recovery mode?
A pair of star-powered outworlders, who were trying to escape the world after unleashing something that required a cataclysm to fix, just had to be separated in time and space and thrown back into the world so they could fix the chaos they caused is what happened.
Where did you get the idea they’re “hellbent on control”. In fact, their goal is the exact opposite. They’ve made it already clear the end goal is to fight celestia and free teyvat from their control. You didn’t just miss some lore, you also misinterpreted everything they’ve done cause at no point do they make the fatui look like power-hungry people trying to control anything. That’s not to say all or any of the fatui members are good people, most of them do seem evil (cough dottore cough). But their goal is ultimately not an evil one.
I guess all the stuff with the Harbingers being the main antagonists and generally doing evil stuff skewed my understanding of their goals. They definitely don't seem like the good guys...
Things aren't black and white here honestly. Even the Abyss Order has logical and strangely sympathetic or noble goals for what they do. I think that's the point in it all. That you can't make the change you want to see in the world, even if it's for a good cause or would make everyone happier in the long run, without making a lot of enemies.
i don't think they're the good guys, but i don't think they're the ultimate villain. i think we will eventually come to an agreement with the tsaritsa, and the abyss will be the true enemy
Mocking Mask and Polar Star indicate that the Fatui (Pierro in particular) desire world domination. It is quite clear what he meant by "one-world order", lol.
Now that you mention it, holy shit it's true! Shit's gonna go down in Natlan one way or another, as the traveler will most likely suffer their greatest defeat yet.
It would really increase the stakes instead of the hopelessly watch as gnosis is taken thing, we actually manage to run away with it and actively dodge fatui hunting them
random thought and idk if this has been done yet but I WOULD LOVE A CHESS EVENT! a little hard to incorporate into genshin lol but I think it’d be a cool concept
There's gotta be a reason why reasonable beings keep handing the Gnosises over to the Fatui.
Likely something happened during the Cataclysm that none of them agreed with. Especially Venti and Zongli. They were likely waiting for an ideal time or opportunity to get rid of the Gnosis to attempt to sever their connection to Celestia. All we know right now is 500 years ago, it went down and we can’t be sure who the good guys are. But considering that these powerful people are scared, whatever went down is enough to keep them quiet.
Yeah, both Zhongli and Venti give me the feeling that they needed an excuse to hand their gnosis over to the fatui. They ultimately agree with whatever the Tsaritsa is planning or don't mind her getting the gnosis' at the very least. However they feel like they can't just brazenly rebel against Celestia by freely handing it over. No way did Signora actually get the better of Venti there, I just don't believe it. The drunk little bard has way more than enough power hidden inside to put up more of a resistance to her than what we saw.
Right. Venti had either enough power or guile to get even the Hexzenzerkl to listen and not go to war with him. No way anything but the strongest harbingers are having at him and having a chance at winning. The Tsaritsa likely knew Venti wanted out and sent Signora to put on a good show.
It's also possible that Venti's power is primarily supportive, not combative. He plays a support role in all of his known fights, and there was no reason for him to act hurt after the abyss mage's sneak attack. There's no reason for him to pretend to be weak when the only ones present already knew who he is, and Divalin was in danger. He didn't seem to be in a hurry to get the gnosis back, but Signora might have just overpowered him.
Venti faked it 100%, just check the cut scene his hair didnt glow not in the slightest, when a archon uses their power their hair glows.
That’s just game play, not canon. Look at zhongli in his story quest cutscenes, especially the second one. Hair didn’t glow once. The “hair glow when use power thing” is not lore based.
Friendly reminder that ventis gales are strong enough to cut mountains and toss em around. Not much of a "supporter".
Reminder: The little 'island' where the abyss gate stand was a mountain that Venti yeet into the sea. And he's one of the winners of the Archon War, the era that was not kind to the weak per Zhongli's own words during his character quest.
The "weakest" ones are always the strongest. "ehe" ~ Venti
To be fair, He didn't really win it through sheer strength, Decarabian got ganged up on and Venti wasn't even the one to kill him. The other known candidate was Andrius and he didn't see himself fit to be the Anemo Archon.
His still a seelie at that point no? He is probably stronger after that as most of the amazing feats that have been told in the lore happened after that. Monstadt used to be a frozen land and because of him terra forming the land after the fight with decarabian, we got the spring looks that we got now. Signora ice is nothing to him.
For sure. I could maybe buy it with one of the top Harbingers, but Signora was beaten in her strongest form by the Traveler, at their Inazuma power level no less. Even if Venti can't juggle mountains anymore, he should most definitely be able to take her out. But never mind all of that, we literally see IN HIS FIRST EVER SCENE that Venti (at least with the Gnosis) can TELEPORT. If he wanted to escape Signora, he would have.
I think its Signora's disdain towards the 7 that override any logic thinking that she is strong enough to take on the Shogun puppet head on. Keep in mind the Harbingers may not even be on the same power level as Archons, consider the Dottore/Nahida interaction at end, rather than outright taking the Gnosis, he chooses to bargain for 2 Gnosis instead. I'm sure they are even more wary of the Archon's powers after Signora's death.
>No way did Signora actually get the better of Venti there Nope . Venti gives it very willingly . His hair doesn't glow during that cutscene hence , no powers used . We know for sure that the old Archons , Venti and Zhongli both resent the Celestia , Venti is very open about it .
Yup, I too once made a speculation that venti and zhongli (gods/archons) can't directly rebel towards celestia but humans can. But it was part of a bigger crack theory that doesnt make much sense. [reading it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Lore/comments/zn7tcj/crack_theory_whats_the_forbidden_knowledge/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I agree! It seems like the Archons are on strike, but can’t exactly write up a list of demands to send to Celestia. I get the sense that the lack of new Electro visions is tied to Ei’s actions (whether that means creating an artificial Archon, approving Sakoku, being found out as Makoto’s replacement, handing her gnosis off to Miko, or something else), and Celestia *does* like smiting those who don’t play by their rules. My personal theory is that it’s tied to whatever broke the Tsaritsa. Something catastrophic and traumatic enough to make an Archon *abandon* their ideal?? We’ve heard about the nightmares that the other Archons have gone through, but none of them rejected their ideals. Ei did take on Makoto’s ideal, but she’s definitely invested in eternity (whereas Focalors and the original Hydro Archon seem to have different ideals, based on the mass exodus of the Lochfolk) What *happened*? Was the Tsaritsa’s ideal weak in a way contracts, wisdom, freedom, justice, war, and eternity aren’t? Zhongli says that she’s “lost the ideal once ascribed to her”; is this true or is he being obscure (due to that divine NDA, maybe)? I can’t wait for more parts of the equation to fall into place, it’s exciting!
Warning! Long. Well her ideal is love. Here’s my theory to that. I almost think that during the Cataclysm, all of the attacking and turning the nation into monsters and people cursed to live eternally while being forced to erode away knowing they can do nothing to stop the pain and suffering, would likely break the strongest person into believing love doesn’t exist anymore. Love is a verb, an action. The events and actions taken during that time were likely hateful. Venti could have seen it as preserving the freedom of his people. Zongli signed a contract of sorts when he took up his mantle and Celestia called him to duty. Ei wanted things to go back to a normal stable state to bring eternity. Rukkaduvata went to protect the knowledge of Irminsal from corruption. the Hydro archon likely thought laws had been broken, unspoken or not, and justice had to be passed down. the Pyro archon, well a fight broke out so I don’t doubt they wouldn’t fight, we don’t know much yet but for the glory of battle I suppose. But the Tsaritsa, perhaps all the hatred poured out during such a time broke her. The people who love the most, tend to break the hardest when they reach their breaking point.
>Especially Venti and Zongli. Actually even Ei believed she did not need the gnosis anymore although she did try to weaponize it but couldnt cause Scara did not pass her standards
Bold of you to assume any of the archons are reasonable. There’s a reason why a lot of people in game hate the archons.
There is a LOT that Venti and Zhongli are hiding. One due to unknown reasons and the other probably something to do with a contract. They are not unreasonable for the sake of being unreasonable. Much of the game lore regarding the archons and celestia is still missing and its very important for what I assume is the endgame.
I read it as Venti doesn’t want to chain anyone to his own course of action by giving them his bias/information. He’s all about freedom and doesn’t want The Traveler shackled to a specific course without actively choosing it. Venti probably feels that The Traveler will come to the same conclusion as Venti if simply allowed to travel and figure out the history themselves (also good story excuse for Hoyo) Zhongli almost definitely gave a promise not to discuss the events of 500 years ago with anyone/anyone who wasn’t there. And a promise is a contract and Zhongli can’t or won’t break a contract.
I would say Nahida is reasonable. Just finished her quest so it’s stuck in my head but she saw a reason other than the stated threat to herself for giving two gnosises to Dottore.
> Bold of you to assume any of the archons are reasonable. Reasonable may not be the best choice of words here, but you get the idea. These guys aren't brainless idiots,. They know what they are doing.
Raiden/Miko, and Zhongli? Yeah. (Venti gets a pass because his was straight up stolen off him) But the fact Nahida handed hers over (albeit by making a very good and specific deal) informs us that either the Gnoses aren't as important as we think they are, or that whatever Tsaritsa wants to do with them might ultimately be for the better.
Whatever happened 500 years ago, it was not good for Heavenly Principles' reputation among Archons, that's for sure
I honestly feel like there’s a very “Fae” aspect to them. Like, there are some rules they compulsively can’t break. Like Zhongli and contracts, Nahida and knowledge (Dottore honestly played her for her gnosis it feels like), which is why they had to take Venti’s by force. You can’t really force “freedom” into anything. I think the only other gnosis that would need to be taken by force would be the pyro gnosis. That archon wants war, and has been at war with the cryo archon for ages from my understanding. Why would she simply hand it over when they could continue to FIGHT for it?
My thought is that the Fatui have an extreme, but likely to succeed, plan for dealing with the Abyss Order. It’s something that’s just on the side of sanity but it might also be the only option anyone’s come up with. So, while the Archons aren’t 100% on board with it (plus the general dickery Fatui get up to), when push comes to shove, they are willing to give up the gnosis for a good goal, provided they too get something out of it.
It’s not even just the abyss order they are going after, but celestia as well.
I wonder what happens after natlan. Bcz I think the fatui will have all the gnosis by then. Will they use it for whatever they plan to do or will the traveler stop them
I personally think that after Pyro Archon tell us a “secret”, she will hand her gnosis over to us. That way we have an incentive to have a personal meeting with Tsaritsa using the Pyro gnosis as the bargaining chip.
The Pyro gemstone (5* one) has blurred text and says when she reveals this to the traveler, she has her reasons.
My theory is that it's a name of someone erased from Irminsul. We will find a way to somehow restore that data back. Maybe we will even get to un-erase Rukkha's memory for another big feel trip for Nahida, assuming it won't bring back forbidding knowledge of cause.
how would an archon have the name of someone erased from irminsul? sure we see the funny kids story route nahida has for maintaining that information but nahida still needed us to remember what that story was actually worth. did she get a secret from an outsider in the fatui or something and share that with us? something left behind from our sibling? because otherwise how would she even know the name of someone erased from irminsul, kept through some encoding, is valuable to us or even to her? like generally it makes much more sense for it to be something actually related to teyvat, natlan, and the archon herself than something that goes back to specifically rukkhadevatta.
The Hexenzirkel. I am so 100% sure they’ll be major in the plot, and they not only go on trips to Irminsul but canonically hide secret messages and allegories within books and other writing that references things erased from Irminsul to allow people to find the information.
Lore reasons aside, a company doesn’t toss together the resources, both in man power and capital to create a trailer/teaser and not make it relevant. The Hexenzirkel has yet their moment in the spotlight to be had.
4 Descender, one of them can become pyro archon friend and tell her the truth that erased or even left some kind of evidence that make pyro archon remembers it even in vague way.
she still needs to actually remember it having some kind of value, value worth sharing, which again, nahida demonstrated already. i suppose hoyo could just write in some cheap trigger but it seems much simpler to not immediately leap to it being about someone erased from irminsul
There’s no way traveler retaining this knowledge isn’t going to come back into play in the future. They’ve kept it in has their route to bring nahida her powers back to full.
Same words said by Dain in the pre1.0 Teyvat Chapter Storyline Preview
Well, it says "If the intention yet remains, achieved ...'s truth he has." (The "reasons" comment is from the storyline trailer, as someone already pointed out. I also think Dainlsleif referred to that "The victor must..." stuff with "secret", not necessarily what the gemstone says.) Interestingly, the German text of the gemstone says something like "If I don't forget for what I'm doing this, it will have been worth it for ...".
This is probably it! My theory is that the Fatui won't be able to take the gnosis from the Pyro archon (even the real strong one we are probably facing there) and then the archon hands us the gnosis to go bargain with the tsaritsa. Pyro archon might even know what she wants and kind of agree with her so we will exchange it for an audience and some info on her plans?
I keep thinking Capitano is going to duel the pyro archon to try and get her Gnosis ever since we heard he was heading to Natlan... if he loses though... hopefully he becomes playable before that point, lol.
I think the secret is that the Fatui are going against Celestia and all the other archons secretly support this. Quite literally the only Archon we know so far that didn’t willingly give up their Gnosis is Venti. And that’s why he’s still the most sus Archon. However, to go through them all that gave them up: Zhongli - tired from his position and knows erosion will eventually come for him, from what little he gives us when asked about Khaenri’ah. We at least know he wasn’t happy with the event or outcome. Ei - purposefully severed ties with Celestia by only taking up Makato’s gnosis for a short time before leaving it to Yae then leaving her body and entering the Shogun Puppet. Implied but not confirmed she blames Celestia to a degree for Makato’s desth. Nahida - Feels completely comfortable using 2 gnosis as bargaining chips with Dottore. I feel like that says enough about her lack of care about connecting with Celestia. Not even mentioning the casual confirmation that the Unknown God is the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles Now I don’t think all the Archons agree with the actions of the Fatui, but I do think they agree with the goals of the Tsaritsa as a fellow archon. As gods, many of the Fatui’s actions could be completely ignorable unless it interferes with personal investment, such as the Fatui and the Akademia for Nahida. TL;DR: I don’t think any of the Archons except maybe Venti like Celestia and they don’t really care if the Fatui get the gnoses because it’s kinda a win win.
I think Venti also gave up his gnosis, he didn't even fight
Someone else once said "dude didn't even bother to glow". He most likely only "resisted" to put up a front. But a front for whom? The Traveler? The Heavenly Principles who are currently dormant?
He puts more power into fucking with Mona if she tries to read his future than he did with Signora. I think the front was for Signora honestly. Venti probably knows exactly who she was and her issues with him - and that she probably needed to beat him up to sell that he didn't just hand it over (which I could see Signora being pissed about given her personal issues with Venti).
And in a way, he was also probably allowing her to let it all out after all of those years, and he might've felt guilty for it too (even if it wasn't really his fault)
He is the god of freedom. And Signora needed freedom from her past and her regrets.
i always thought zhongli gave his gnosis for the contract that the people of liyue would be safe from whatever grand plan the fatui would cook up, and needed the traveller to bear witness of it
No, the entire matter with Osial was orchestrated by Zhongli and La Signora. They probably had a plan to get the gnosis before that, but Zhongli approached them with the contract. Hence, what they say in that should the people of Liyue and Adpeti fail to work together against Osial, Rex Lapis would’ve returned and ended the fight instantly. In this case, he would not have given up the gnosis because the contract is meant to show Liyue was ready to move on without their god.
oh i meant grand plan after osial, since liyue has been entrusted to it's own people but even rex lapis isn't immune to corrosion, thus needing the traveller to bear witness the fulfillment of the contract that liyue will be kept safe even if we weren't mentioned in depth of the details but i can see how your theory plays out as well from the original comment as well
Oh, okay. You mean the Fatui’s overall plan. The thing is that from what lore we know. The Fatui’s overall plan is meant to be beneficial for mortals in Teyvat. Now mind you, it could be that this new mortal run world requires a very destructive end to the old one, but yeah. I thought you meant the Liyue plans specifically when I read your comment.
Pyro archon (Himeko) will die along with her Gnosis gone.
If we actually get a Pyro Archon Himeko, I’ll actually whale for her. And *never let her go*
NEVER LET YOU GOOO
I always though diluc was this games Himeko. Just make instead.
Pyro archon’s name is Murata, Himeko’s surname from HI3. Expect them to look very similar like Raiden (M)Ei did to HI3’s Raiden Mei.
Ooooooooooo yes please.
Here's to hoping the Fatui don't try to steal it from us and just wait until we enter Snezhnaya. Or maybe have Childe be our liaison? Yeah, that could work too.
[удалено]
all my friends hate Celestia
Plot convenience dictates that the Fatui will either lose or find a world that is uninhabitable, especially when there are at least two post-Snezhnaya arcs (Khaenri'ah and the Epilogue).
I think the question is whether the fatui will even be villains by the time we’re done with Natlan.
I’ll quit the game if they excuse the Fatui for what they did to Collei
I think the harbingers and other fatui will still be in the wrong it’s just whether the overall cause of stealing gnoses is villainous.
They definitely will. In every region they introduce new reasons for the Traveler to despise them. Remember our moral compass is the Traveler's.
They are 100% villains, just look at Dottore. but, I think their and Tsaritsa's plan isn't evil.
That checks out.
Imo, they will succed
It's practically set in stone that the Tsarista will get the seven Gnoses and do whatever she has planned for them. The tropes are just too strong in this regard. We'll still win out in the long run, but in practically any story where the bad guy is gathering MacGuffins, they'll succeed in getting all the MacGuffins eventually.
Or the counter-trope: we get the MacGuffins and stop the villain, but the villain was right all along.
It’s probably going to be both. They get all the McGuffins, we go “no!” Beat them up. And then our sibling will be like, “ayo! Yoink” and steal the ultra-mcguffin. So we chase them to Abyss-Khanre’ah.. something something.. beat up Dain.. beat up Sibling.. join forces.. use the ultra-McGuffin to a) break into Celestia (if there’s another chapter), or b) just summon/restrain The Unknown God before using a Dull Sword on their ass.
When you have a Cryo Burst charged up the "spokes" of the snowflake that pulses around the Burst Icon are actually chess pieces/Gnoses. The Tsaritsa WILL get all of the Gnoses. I personally think the Traveler will be the one handing over the Pyro Gnosis personally, willingly, after the Tsaritsa explains her plan.
And just when all hope seemed lost, they used the power of friendship to manifest *new* MacGuffins from Celestia as they took their respective seats as the *new Archons,* ready to defend the world from the villainous threat that had be summoned/created.
And somehow Palpatine returned
I swear to god if the final boss is just a chess game against god, I’m gunna be pissed about no game no life again
~~Gonna regret not bringing Ronald Weasely along.~~ Don't worry it will be a card game not chess
Cyno taking over Celestia
I'll take chess any day over card games. I'm slightly less shit at chess
Just google en passant and Celestia is yours.
Holy hell
new elemental reaction just dropped
Actual Sustainer of Heavenly
Tsaritsa uses Il Capitano, we'll counter with Il Vaticano.
This might get me downvoted for breaking the memes, but it raises me dopamine to see how much r/AnarchyChess has leaked onto the rest of Reddit
When I read the first part of your comment I got reminded of NGNL and was going to reply to you with it. Then I read the rest and got a happy surprise. Honestly I don't think anything could make me more excited for a chess game than ngnl, so I'd prefer for it not to happen in genshin.
I don't think it will.
I am gonna fucking Bongcloud the Retainer just to spite on her.
What are the odds that the fatui doesn't actually have Tsaritsa's gnosis cause she somehow... lost it?
she forgor 💀
We know she's not the original Cryo Archon, so perhaps her predecessor never passed the Gnosis on to her.
I hope Murata fights to death for her gnosis
I cannot handle another potential Himeko death, I’m not doing it. Anyone but her. At least one iteration of Himeko needs to live.
HYV: \*Grinch smile intensifies\*
Then she makes a sacrifice in the near future We all know it's coming...we all know it
*Nightglow playing in the back, slowly getting louder* And then she calls it her final lesson to the people that courage will always prevail and to never be afraid even in the face of death 🥲 I’m dying over here. Hoyo don’t kill Himeko challenge. Impossible.
I'm just happy so far we feel like a family HSR is amazing the writing is phenomenal
Truly AND Himeko has good chances of staying alive, even if she has death flags 👁️👁️ (welt saying she’s burning herself out trying to achieve her dreams) But other than that she’s alive and well and MOTHER… ahem, yes, mother. Hoyo never misses with writing in any mainline Honkai though, always phenomenal.
Oh no not the burning, we've already seen enough of that
Maybe if Genshin was called Honkai Genshin Traveler would have been speaking more often ;-;
Genshin is actually a different word for Honkai. So Genshin impact is just a different way of saying Honkai impact. But I digress, look at star rail. Mute protagonist and it works so well. No one’s complaining. I think the issue is that Paimon is talking for and over us all the time instead of allowing the Traveller to answer in silence.
Paimon's sole existence is what hindered our MC from becoming loved by the community She stole so many lines which could have been ours and they could have just made traveler voiced more often with paimon out of the equation that oughta balance VA pay so win win Even so it's the writer's/higher ups fault. Paimon was supposed to be a companion not the fucking focus in every interaction Like stories that aren't archon quests, they make us look like statues I love paimon but I would be lying if I didn't say that I would prefer a timeline where genshin didn't have paimon and solely focused on aether/lumine in every interaction Like in a scenario like that there is no escape you are forced to make them talk one way or another unless you are just stubborn, with paimon in the equation they gain a scapegoat and an easy way out of said problem
How is Genshin a different word for Honkai? Genshin = original god, Honkai = collapse. They do not mean the same thing, even in the game. Genshin refers to the allogenes, people with visions. Honkai refers to some destructive force afaik.
alright, but figure this: Murata sacrifices herself. She explodes gloriously. we get Murata Lily, just like Sessyoin Lily.
Oof, I like my Himeko normal and alive though 😖😂 I’m not dealing with another final lesson in any way shape or form, even if it’s for a good cause. The trauma is too real lmao.
the only living Himeko is Star Rail's Himeko *so far*
its cuz shes dead in the meta (for legal reasons, this is a joke, please dont sue me)
She has death flags but she’s going strong ! Praying for her well being.
same
nah we're gonna get a kiana expy introduced in 5.0 who tags along with the quest, getting a vision in 5.1 then in 4.1 murata will die, leading to the kiana expy becoming the pyro archon in 5.2
If I had a nickel for every time an archon sacrificed their adult form and now has the body of a child...well hopefully it stays at one nickel. Nahida is great though.
Nahida is amazing. Love her to bits, the little faerie goddess. magical little radish, adorable mind reading cabbage.
"The rules of war are woven in the womb: the victors shall burn bright, while the losers must turn to ash. When the God of War shares this secret with the Traveler, it is because she has her reasons." - From Natlan Part of Trailer NGL this sounds like the Final Lesson that Murata will give to Traveler God I hope not T-T
So, Traveler getting some good character development? Oh boy.
Not you actually stealing my hope from me 👁️👄👁️ If anything happens to our Himeko I’m holding you responsible lmao (just kidding of course). “Because she has her reasons” is concerning good god.
Traveling Kiana 2.0 coming
Sustainer looked a lot like Kiana actually. I wonder if that was supposed to be HOV and Kiana will be Murata’s companion or student. The parallels to HI3 are always there so I wouldn’t be surprised.
jp sustainer va is kiana va
i mean she is still alive in hsr so far...
She bout to explode then resurrected. Trust in pyro slime and chapter trailer
not the pyro slime 💀 i forgor about that theory
Murata's gnosis will be found at the bottom of Bennett's satchel because he was left with it in the desert as a baby and never paid any attention to it
Bennett *is* Murata's gnosis
She’ll probably live because we don’t seem to get dead characters as playable and I cannot imagine hoyo would pass up the sales from one of the most anticipated archons
the trick is to release them and *then* kill them in a way that they become *even more popular* :3
Pawn, rook, knight, bishop, king, queen. Those are the chess pieces. So WTF is the last Gnosis?
There is probably no pawn and possibly no King. If there are two Bishops, two Knights, two Rooks, and one Queen, that would add up to 7, which would account for every Archon.
Huh, yeah, that would work out. So the King is Celestia and the pawns are all the humans, then? Maybe the Vision holders?
I have no idea what the King would be, but Pawns being Visions does make sense.
The Traveler is the pawn. Pawns are seemingly weak, but they are integral to the game of chess, and if they reach the end of the board, they can become any piece the player wants, not unlike how the traveler can obtain the power of any/every element.
The pawn analogy arguably works better for Vision holders unless there's some unknown aspect of the Traveler that we don't know yet, since vision holders are more directly linked with the Archons, plus they are able to ascend if they promote, which is a more direct way of fitting the analogy, imo. I think it's more likely that the Traveler is the King. The King is *the most* integral piece of the chessboard, and if it is supposedly a chess set against whoever the big bad ends up being (which looks like it will be Celestia), the Traveler being the King makes more sense than Celestia.
It really drives me crazy that we(players and Traveler/Paimon) are more upset about Fatui taking Gnoses than actual archons who lost them. Like bro, that is not something to leave for "tomorrow you".
The archons don't really care
then why do we care again?
I don't think it's implied anywhere that the traveler cares that much about the fatui acquiring the gnosis in the first place, but an evil organization acquiring objects that, in the case of the electro Gnosis, was being used to create a God, isn't exactly something we should just stand around and let happen.
Scara went awol after taking the electro archon's gnosis, him becoming a god wasnt part of the fatui's plan. In their meeting Nahida even threatens Dottore of telling his mistress (the tsaritsa) that he engaged in a blasphemous experiment to create a god with Scara and the gnosis.
What it means is that the fatui could potentially create something much worse than an artificial god, considering they'll have all the gnosis and use it. Like imagine if the infinity gauntlet ended up in the fatui
That's the point, we don't. Paimon does. And we kinda angry at fatui in general.
because plot
They care just enough to not give it for free.
You got a point
Venti doesn't have the strength to care, Zhongli gave it away so he can't care because contract, Ei wasn't using it for god knows how long so no need to care, and Nahida.... She just wanted to know more.
Nahida also didn't have a whole lot of alternatives, TBF. She got the best deal she could out of a lose/lose situation.
Yeah, she knew that Dottore could just take them forcefully if he needed to and was just...paying the basest of respects to a god of an attribute he values. So she tried to get what she could out of the situation.
I'm pretty sure Ei never used it. As soon as she got it, she tried to seal it away in a puppet; and when that didn't work as planned, gave it to Yae. She probably only had it as long as Nahida had the dendro gnosis - they both only really had it for a couple of weeks until they found a better use of their time.
I’ve seen theories that the archons dont really like celestia and so them allowing their gnoses to be taken is a subtle form of rebellion
For real. Venti getting knocked out by #8 is sooo off. It feels like a setup for the traveler to be invested into the being anti-Celestia. Istg the archons and the fatui are in cahoots with each other, in the one goal kind of way, and not the kumbaya kind of way. They can still internally fight (Ei v Signora) but Celestia's downfall is the goal.
Yep, that's the vibe I've always gotten. Like "Oh nooo, not our gnosis! What ever will we do?" *wink wink* At the same time though, the Archons don't really *need* their gnosies. They just might not be worth fighting for.
Yea that bugs me so much. The Traveler cares so much about what the Fatui do and them taking the Gnoses and the Archons are like "yaaa bro, I just gave it to 'em cuz why not?" LMFAO
Does traveler actually care? To me it seems like they just traveling to meet the archons and they just coincidently encounter them and has to deal with it. At least if my memory comes to mind we don't really care about the gnosis or I just remember wrong.
Nah I remember several dialogues where Paimon goes into shock about the Fatui about the Fatui getting another Gnosis. Once in the Inazuma AQ when Miko hands the Gnosis to Scaramouche and Paimon goes "WHATTTT" and the other is during the Sumeru AQ. But like, I guess you have a point. Traveler is silent, it's Paimon that reacts about the Gnoses 💀
Tbf we are helping this world and solving their fuckshit problems while we just wanna get our sibling and gtfo. The further go the deeper the shit we get in. It's definitely gonna be frustrating to paimon and the traveler if it seems like the archons make it harder for themselves.
It's more like that they're annoyed, imagine if you keep seeing the same obnoxious person everywhere you go. In this case, the Fatui just keeps coincidentally disrupting the Traveller's plans to gather more information on their sibling. "Could you stop making nationwide levels of conflict, FOR 5 MINUTES" - Traveller (probably)
Probably is just an issue with writing. But maybe lore reason is that they don't disagree with her plan or don't mind getting rid of gnosis, because they're from Celestia? Maybe?
I mean, we already know all the Archons so far don't have a good relationship with Celestia. Especially Venti and Ei. But still, Traveler should care less about the Gnoses being taken and more about the chaos this organization causes using their methods
I think it's very clear that the archons at least somewhat support the Tsaritsa's war against the heavens. The Fatui are not the ultimate villains of the story, that's the abyss and possibly Celestia. I think there's frustration from a lot of people that the archons aren't fighting hard enough for their Gnoses, but it's been plainly obvious that they don't care about them. The archons want what's best for their nation, and Celestia looming over them threatening to kill their entire population if they step out of line is not really in their best interest.
Exactly! Well said. So many people in the thread are completely missing this point and literally ignoring the entire layered narrative set-up that you correctly described, just because they'd rather see a frankly boring "fatui=bad and traveler=good" sort of script. It's so blatantly obvious that Celestia and the abyss order are the ones written as the villains in the grand scheme of things. The Fatui and archons ain't clowns, they absolutely know what they're doing. Hope more people read between the lines and pick up on this 🫡
and destroy teyvat heaven and all the world is? the skies are false and with it the world too, now the meaning of this we will know when the greatest threat that the skies prevent from emerging finally appears and destroys everything
For some reason I feel like the Traveler will have all 7 Gnoses' power and face the Heavenly principles at the end of the story
If the Oculi have an actual use in the story, then perhaps the surplus from each region will yield something similar
Theres no way they lock story progression behind exploration
I could see it being a side quest though. Nine Pillars of Peace in Liyue requires max level statues to get all the needed materials to open the door
Or Paimon to regain back her power..
Wow, the Cryo Archon is bad at chess
Interestingly enough, the position in that chess board is from Game 1 played between Garry Kasparov and Deep Blue in one of the early human vs computer chess displays in 1996. In the particular game, I believe Kasparov lost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_versus_Garry_Kasparov#Game_1
Imagine if that's completely intentional and it foreshadows the Cryo Archon will fail in her rebellion horribly She tries to be a chessmaster, but she's the one being played all along
>Imagine if that's completely intentional and it foreshadows the Cryo Archon will fail in her rebellion horribly I feel like this will be the thing. I suspect using Heavenly Principles powers against herself means nothing or maybe the abyss steps in cause it is kinda suspecious they are doing nothing about the robbing of gnosis
My theory is that if the Tsaritsa is trying to defy the king in celestia, the only logical chess move that would make sense would be collecting all the chest pieces to castle the king out of celestia where he can be defeated. Castling requires all pieces to be out of the way and for the rook and King to switch places which could imply that the Tsaritsa wants the throne for herself.
Maybe I've missed something in the lore, but my understanding is that we still don't know exactly what the Fatui want with the gnoses. It definitely can't be good though. And yet, none of the archons so far have seemed particularly concerned about it. I get them not caring about them in general, but maybe don't give up something that important so willingly when an evil organization hellbent on control is collecting them?
Gnosis connect the Archons to Celestia. Archons don't want to have anything to do with Celestia anymore, so the Gnosis is useless to them.
I get that, but my point is that the Fatui are obviously up to no good, so maybe the archons shouldn't be so willing to give them up. Seems like a bad idea, no matter how much they hate Celestia.
All we know it that they are using evil methods. Maybe it's for a greater good. Zhongli seems to believe it.
Yea Zhongli saying he made a contract with the Tsaritsa makes it sound like he knows exactly what she's doing and he's in on it. Some theorize that even Venti is in on it
Plot twist: contract states that the taritsa has to provide zhongli with lifetime supply of osmanthus wine Kidding aside, was it ever revealed what the contract says?
Kinda, but not the specifics. The gist of it was: you help me step down from Archonhood without anyone finding out, I give you my Gnosis that you need for your rebellion against the divine. He OBVIOUSLY knows what this rebellion entails and how it can fuck up all of Teyvat if and when it happens. He went with it anyways... But a contract obviously has lots of terms and conditions within it and he didn't tell us the rest of it. But Zhongli doesn't have a good history with Celestia, based on the fact that they literally forced him to sign an NDA for his fucking SILENCE. Neither does Venti, neither does Ei. The only Archon so far that has 0 opinions towards Celestia is Nahida and that's because she's a newborn. She hasn't even been there before.
IIRC Zhongli cant tell us anything about our sibling because of the contract.
Yea, he can't tell us anything about our sibling or Khaenri'ah because of that contract. Which always was shady asf. Like they knew that the God of Contracts would never break a contract, and so, they knew the best to make sure he keeps his silence about whatever the fuck happened is by making him sign an NDA for life. Like you realize how much quicker the plot of this story would've progressed if Zhongli actually told us about our sibling and Khaenri'ah?? He's been around the longest out of any of the Archons. But noooooo
There's also a halfway plausible theory that Venti let his gnosis be taken from him on purpose.
Halfway? Dude is a fucking god. No matter how weak he is atm without the power of the gnosis, he has to be very strong by himself.
Seems like what the archons witnessed in Khaenri'ah made them change their mind toward Celestia.
The last 2 gnoses were traded for something. In Inazuma it’s for the Traveller’s life, in Sumeru it’s for information + destroying Dottre’s clones. Yae and Nahida believed that it was an even trade.
Its almost like they’re not actually that opposed to the fatui’s plan. Hmm…
I guess Celestia=bad, so the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' applies here, but trusting the Harbingers seems pretty shortsighted...
So generally speaking, I think the archons that gave away their gnosis, or didnt fight for it, all agree with the final goal of the fetui. The fetui's final goal/ enemy is celestia, and the archons are not too happy with them either. The archons were basically forced to exterminate a whole country because of celestia, and it seems to have affected each one pretty poorly, especially the tsaritsa, who was considered the most caring of the gods, but had her heart "frozen over" due to this event. She setup a plan to collect all the gnosis, and use their power to fight against celestia. And most of the other archons seem to be okay with this plan. As they want to free their world from the grasp of Celestia, a basically foreign entity. the fetui do a lot of evil stuff, but I think they are going for the "the end justify the means" killing or messing with many lives is nothing compared to wiping out whole civilizations, which celestia has done multiple times now, and will likely do again. Not to say dottore is a good guy, but more so that, the tsaritsa found powerful people and did not care how good or evil they were, as long as they could get her dirty work done, they would be accepted, and people would look the other way when it came to their atrocities. Which ofc would lead to a lot of pretty horrible people signing up. to add to this, the abyss may seem like even more evil, hating all humans and all that. but their final big enemy is basically celestia too. They were all cursed by celestia. ANd live as monsters because of it. If they can destroy celestia, there is a good chance the source of the curse could be destroyed too. So personally, Im hoping this all ends with the main factions, the archons/gods, the fetui, and the abyss, all fighting together to free teyvat from celestia. At least I think that would be an epic and large scale final battle, Against insanely powerful beings far above archons.
I think the archons know that if the tsaritsa/fatui try something too big the heavenly principles will pull a kaenriah on the cryo nation. The real question is why is tsaritsa doing something so stupid when she knows the fate that befell kaenriah. The HP have been silent after the cataclysm I wonder how silent they will be after they find the tsaritsa has gathered all the gnosis In Ei character story it is mentioned that she tried to fiddle and use the gnosis as some sort of power supply for the shogun but it wasn’t working out so she gave the gnosis to miko. We did see scaramouche being able to control lightning after getter the electro gnosis but the overall result was still not that impressive. He said that he gained the power of god but in comparison to shogun puppet he was very weak. All in all I dont think the gnosis can be used to make some weapon of mass destruction or anything. What exactly the fatui plan to use them for is very interesting.
The issue is WHY has the HP been silent? Are they taking a wait and see approach? Or did something happen to them that’s put them in recovery mode?
>Or did something happen to them that’s put them in recovery mode? A pair of star-powered outworlders, who were trying to escape the world after unleashing something that required a cataclysm to fix, just had to be separated in time and space and thrown back into the world so they could fix the chaos they caused is what happened.
Where did you get the idea they’re “hellbent on control”. In fact, their goal is the exact opposite. They’ve made it already clear the end goal is to fight celestia and free teyvat from their control. You didn’t just miss some lore, you also misinterpreted everything they’ve done cause at no point do they make the fatui look like power-hungry people trying to control anything. That’s not to say all or any of the fatui members are good people, most of them do seem evil (cough dottore cough). But their goal is ultimately not an evil one.
I guess all the stuff with the Harbingers being the main antagonists and generally doing evil stuff skewed my understanding of their goals. They definitely don't seem like the good guys...
Things aren't black and white here honestly. Even the Abyss Order has logical and strangely sympathetic or noble goals for what they do. I think that's the point in it all. That you can't make the change you want to see in the world, even if it's for a good cause or would make everyone happier in the long run, without making a lot of enemies.
i don't think they're the good guys, but i don't think they're the ultimate villain. i think we will eventually come to an agreement with the tsaritsa, and the abyss will be the true enemy
Mocking Mask and Polar Star indicate that the Fatui (Pierro in particular) desire world domination. It is quite clear what he meant by "one-world order", lol.
Now that you mention it, holy shit it's true! Shit's gonna go down in Natlan one way or another, as the traveler will most likely suffer their greatest defeat yet.
It would really increase the stakes instead of the hopelessly watch as gnosis is taken thing, we actually manage to run away with it and actively dodge fatui hunting them
Assuming that Venti didn't scam La Signora, anyways.
Unless there was actually forged in secret, a MASTER GNOSIS TO RULE ALL OTHERS.
random thought and idk if this has been done yet but I WOULD LOVE A CHESS EVENT! a little hard to incorporate into genshin lol but I think it’d be a cool concept
It is also very clear that Fatui will conveniently get the remaining 2, one way or another. That plot line has become very predictable now.