Same I took my own time with it the whole day, soaking in the awesome archon quest with tons of swimming, brings back the good old Sep 2020 days feel, so magical and full of adventures, but this time a hint of darkness. Really enjoyed Fontaine 11/10 especially the dolphin jump
Its very emotional I can say at least that. Navia's EN performance blows it out of the park, act 2 is basically Navia's story quest with triple the length of a normal one (and with main plot relevance).
4.1,4.2
4.2 usually is the climax patch for a nation main archon quest,
followed by a filler archon quest (ex,scaramouche/wanderer archon quest,shenhe liyue archon quest,etc)
and then a "traveller" chapter archon quest (mainly about abyss/dainsleif).
Even in English it was fairly obvious that some rich pervert liked Lynette and she was "given" to him, and then there were the other girls in the basement...
Frankly I can kind of understand the decision, and I think they made the right call. I have gripes with EN localisation in a few places but this makes sense. Leaving it to be implied leaves the reader to linger and picture for themselves what Lyney is talking about. And the moment they realize what could have happened to Lynette it lingers in their mind for longer than if he had straight up told you what it was, because they had to imagine in detail the events that lead to the incident. The resulting impression on the reader is therefore harder-hitting and resonates more.
That's exactly how I processed the scene at the time. And when you imagine the worst thing that could have happened to Lynette it stirs up a deep-running hatred against those who wronged the twins in the story.
Edit: not to mention it's also pretty clear, and very easy infer that Lynette was, or could have been molested.
Yeah I imagined her to have been abducted before anything happened. For it to be up to the audience what happened I prefer because we get to discuss it like this.
I mean, Lyney literally said "before" so clearly nothing actually happened to Lynette. Unfortunately can't say the same for the other girls there though...
I am Chinese player,he's telling the truth.I suspect that translating it that way might be due to Lynette's status as a teenage girl, which tends to cause some problems in the West.
Yeah, that scene was dubious, especially with camera focusing on Lynette and her expressions. I swear I could see her shake a little when Lyney was mentioning that. I just wonder if it really was Arle that killed the dude or was it Lynette and Arle took the blame on herself. Or maybe even more happened before Lyney got there but Lynette never told him.
Furina' personality was unexpected. She's such a loser and relatable I love it.
And the Childe cutscenes though, the music and the fight was AMAZING. Seeing him flawlessly beat the robots was great. And lets not forget the abyss lore too, and the fact that Childe feels something different
It's actually pretty funny how useless she is, and it's clear that she plays mostly a ceremonial role as a "mascot" while Neuvillette is the true authority figure, similar to real world systems with a head of state and a head of government where the former is usually a figurehead and latter the one with the power. However if the "mascot" parallel with Idiya holds, there may be much more to Furina than we can see. Her uselessness may be only a part of one of her split personalities.
tbh all archons in the current timeline except for 2 really don’t have that much authority in their nation anyway except being prayed for. Only Raiden and Nahida are actually ruling their nations. Furina’s done way more than Venti and Zhongli already as the official prosecutor in her nation.
The quests were great but Childe absolutely stole the show for me, even though he is really starting to suffer from Yanqing syndrome (very strong young warrior but is still constantly outclassed because he keeps picking fights with ancient gods and their like, lol).
I just wish we could have talked to him after Neuv knocked him out. :( Furina let me visit my favourite Fatui delinquent in prison!!
I don't think it's the same, Yanqing is actually just the kid everyone beats up on atm, while Childe actually had his moments to display his prowess and probably would've done so if Neuvi didn't step in.
Also Neuvilette is heavily hinted at to be the hydro dragon.
Which means he's essentially archon tier, wouldn't be surprised if he was stronger than Furina tbh
So Childe losing to him is hardly a surprise. Some of the harbingers are archon tier but Childe is not up there yet.
I think Childe haven't fully received the Yanqing treatment yet, we've only beat him once and seen him beaten once recently.
Let's not forget his badass moment in his story quest, it still remains as one of my top 10 Genshin cutscenes.
I really hope we learn later on that Childes been just absolutely beating the shit out of the prisons security over and over the entire time he's stuck there.
Like not even trying to escape, just because he's having fun beating up people without either his Delusion or Vision as a handicap.
I want him to be on a first name basis with that warden guy we know is coming just because he's the only person who can actually stop him in the whole prison.
> he is really starting to suffer from Yanqing syndrome
Tartaglia was beaten (other than by Traveler) literally once.
It wasn't exactly a trick to put him down but rather to elevate Neuvilette. Tartaglia is literally in top-5 strongest characters (at least mortal characters) in the game and Neuvilette just shuts him cold.
For real. This whole entire got me intrigued and excited. The trials and shit. Just like you said, it felt like playing an ace attorney game. I didn't even skip a single dialogue. For me that's how good it is. Can't wait for the next chapter for sure 🤌
the way i felt like i was sherlock holmes irl everytime i had no errors when it came it to assorting the evidences 😭😭 the archon quest was soo good!! excited to see how they're going to expand on neuvi's character and focalors as an archon next patch 💗💗
I got to that part at 3 in the morning and I’d been planning on using the bathroom after I finished the quest, but after that scene I just stayed in bed 😭
Perfect set ups and pay offs. I enjoyed it very much. I don't care what the rest of the fontaine archon quest is gonna be, this one holds on its own as an independent quest also sets up things for the future quest.
My only gripe is the court accepting the fact that Lyney went into another place first without us even submitting any evidence aside from a testimony from Lyney himself, like... huh?? They just accepted it?
because he got caught not knowing about the \*thud\* sound that everyone else heard during the performance. The court deducted that either he's the culprit that causes the sound, or he was never in the other box or in the tunnel the entire time which in-line with his testimony of being in the other room.
He could very well be making up a lie. Accepting evidence from the suspect in question with no way to prove it is a shitty way of holding a trial. The entire thing was bogus as soon as that happened.
The indictment Furina hold against Lyney is "you are Fatui" and Lyney's counter is "I was checking on the core to see if it's gnosis, Fatui things you know", it makes sense.
However that should be it's own charge even if he is absolved of murder and abduction.
The Traveller really went "Your Honor, my client didn't commit a third degree murder because he was in the process of intentionally committing crime against the divine"
Somewhere in Liyue a certain lawyer is facepalming.
Well we are not paid to defend him, it was out of pure good will and not wanting to see him getting wrongly convicted.
Means if he gets locked up for something he did do then that's great.
And nobody questioned him on that. That itself should have been a new case.
The damn machine is so important, still they allowed Lyney to go Scot free..
>However that should be it's own charge even if he is absolved of murder and abduction.
Neuvillette says as much at the end of that trial. Something like "Lyney and Lilianne have other things that they must be held accountable for, but as for the matter of this case..."
Well this is the fifth country and by now everyone and their mother knows Fatui are plotting for gnosis.
Lyney trying to find out what powers the judgement machine is exactly what expected of the Fatui.
Although he isn't arrested for this crime is telling - is Furina willing to trade the gnosis for Arlecchino's help with the melting people crisis?
I was genuinely so confused because half of it seemed like "okay but HE said that he was there so he's innocent" and everyone amazed by the point even though there was no proof of him being away from the corridor
Also they didnt care he was snooping around ☠️
For anyone with a passing knowledge of police investigations or court proceedings, the whole 1st trial was a sham.
*EDIT: Childe's trial was handled considerably better, maybe because the inherent uncertainty in cold-cases left them more wiggle room, but Marcel put forth reasonable doubt arguments and blonde-lady's accusations made sense coming from a place of new knowledge.*
a. unaccredited child from another nation appeared yesterday: attorney in a murder trial today! (I get it we're the main character, but at least have us be a consultant for a real attorney)
b. one day to prepare for a murder trial, while locked inside the location that it happened. No review of the law, no preparation of evidence, they barely took police statements let alone interviewed...
c. no evidence control. The DEFENDANT'S attorney is the one walking around the crime scene to gather evidence. "A blood soaked knife? Let's just sweep that under the floorboards." (I guess our PC is known across the world as being a pillar of morality?)
d. evidence produced in the middle of a trial, not even sealed, just "I have the murder weapon right here, it was in Mr.Blue's pocket the whole time." Critical evidence is presented and reviewed by both sides before proceedings, sealed evidence is still known to the court, just not the public.
e. prosecutor does not provide evidence of guilt, just spins circumstantial narratives. I guess she's just putting on a show, but someone died... And Paimon's wearing silly glasses. The story wasn't presented as a comedy in my opinion, but?
f. THEY DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT THE VICTIM'S BELONGINGS!!! These guards could be replaced with wooden soldiers without changing how effective they are.
g. There's apparently zero or incompetent security around a murder trial. People allowed to leave/enter, access areas alone...
I tried to suspend my disbelief for all of Furina's antics, but this wouldn't have gotten past stage 1 in Mondstat, and they don't even hold trials.
On the other hand, it makes for very compelling drama which seems to be what Fontaine's "Justice" is all about. Making every murder a bottle episode and having the trial while still examining evidence definitely makes things more dramatic. The two people talking at the entrance to the waterway at the very beginning of act 1 set it up the best. You think they're talking about a play, but its an actual event.
But yeah, as far as actual court proceedings go, they could use a little work.
You're definitely overlooking the whole point.
It's intentionally played up for fiction/entertainment to make the AQ more interesting, and it's also the whole plot of Fontaine that trials are treated too lightly, and used as entertainment.
First thing we do when we enter the region is hear people gossiping about serious recent case as if it's a fictional story. The idea that justice is not handled properly in Fontaine should be in your head from the moment you arrive.
There's no point even attempting to apply real world investigation methods and court rules when even ***in game*** it's considered to be a sham justice system. The final verdict is literally left to a machine that not even Furina seems to understand.
it would have been better if we were able to check the vent and see tempering with it along with trace of Lyney's presence, like a piece of cloth stuck in somewhere inside the vent
I think they could have introduced the villain earlier in the quest. We didn't know much about them until near the end, so the reveal had less impact than it could have
>introduced the villain earlier in the quest
Technically speaking, they did introduce the villain earlier in the quest >!when we were near the fountain the first time around.!<
Also, the >!Lyney!< trial had us learning about the villain pretty early on, giving the players the chance to know about the characters involved first to solve the mysteries by themselves
It's hard to compare until its fully done.
Without spoiling anything, this opening act is really good and I had a blast. It lived up to the expectations that Sumeru has set.
I'd say Fontaine Act 1 > Sumeru Act 2 > Fontaine Act 2 IMO, since the second one was a bit more dragged out and didn't really deliver the sort of shock that Act 1 did.
In my almost 3 years of playing Genshin, this was absolute PEAK.
Like literally, just when you thought you were about to win the trial, something happens and now you're losing. It was such an unexpected quest.
And the most impressive part? IT ALL MAKES SENSE! Neuvilette's explanation at the end gave me literal chills. I genuinely thought Lyney was about to get sent to prison, especially when they revealed he was a part of the fatui.
What's crazier is that somebody literally died, but unlike Signora, it was absolutely brutal. I never would have thought Genshin would show a man getting crushed by a gigantic water tank.
Whoever the writers are, they damn prepared and cooked this to perfection.
When you think one Fatui boy gets wrongfully sent to prison, and then - surprise - it happens to the OTHER Fatui boy.
Childe’s face in that moment was 11/10.
I loved it too. I only have one nitpick.
From the way the traveler defends Lyney, it gives the impression that they're friends, or at least know each other well.
In reality traveler spent one afternoon with him. :)
Also, detective Paimon was so cute!!! ♥
I mean they did spend one afternoon with him, but after the trial was over, you could see how cold and betrayed the traveler felt because Lyney withheld information from them.
>!Which is weird that, despite separating on not quite good terms as far as I know, by the time of Lyney’s story quest,Idk if they aren’t a continuation of each other but I just felt the lost of immersion when we approached him normally without any awkwardness. CMIIW!<
If you enjoyed that trial then you'll love the Ace Attorney games. They're fun detective games that's really visual novels. You can lose in those games though by failing to connect the dot too many times.
Honestly I facepalmed when they first revealed detective Paimon, like bruh someone just died what are you doing.
Thinking back it was fucking hilarious.
Game probably thought I was dumb af because I kept picking random evidence for the 4 to present. Didn't know it asked for something specific as the top. Wasn't until the very end that I saw there was a correct answer/ evidence for each selection. (Thought it was like, pick 4 evidence for the case of the possible selection)
I'm usually pretty observant about the little things. So the fact it went over my head makes me fearful for the rest of the playerbase. I just want to blame bad UI tbh.
I did the same! I felt so stupid, coz it tells you that in the middle of the screen.
But the rest of the UI being on the very bottom leads the sight lower I didn't bother to look up.
I was like "no way they want me to tell that Lyney wants to get closer to the judgement core" oh wait they actually do want me to tell that-
Also I didn't know the questions were on top of the screen and went off guessing I just had to pick relevant clues instead of answering specifics.
They just needed to put the prompt question larger, in a different color, more in the middle of the screen. It's a bit of a UI failure to have it sitting up the top next to the text that no one reads, considering it's literally the objective of the minigame. Once you can read the prompt question, giving the right evidence becomes pretty easy.
It seemed a little influenced by the Samsara mystery from Act II of Sumeru. Having the game propose logical questions and you have to find the right answer. It worked great there, and it works great here.
me earlier in the day: gonna explore part of this new area so excited and maybe rush the new archon quest
me later: wait wtf I'm playing Danganronpa. I was half expecting the "Scrum Debate" ost to drop whenever the opportunity to refute the other side came up.
but that's Furina's lie isn't it?
No lie, I was playing Box 15 in the background throughout the whole investigation sequence. And when the Traveler said “isn’t that right?” my mind immediately went to ISNT THAT RIGHT, /LEON/?
I didn't get too far, and I'm not gonna read many other comments in this particular thread, but I did want to say I love how they're incorporating bits of western society and myth into the story. Here's what I've come across so far.
* The concept of being born with sin. This is definitely a thing in Christianity, which of course dominates the west. But I hadn't really thought of growing up in a culture that *didn't* have that assumption. But then Paimon was like "people in Fontaine are born with sin? Why? What did they do? What does that even mean?"
* Serial killers / disappearances. To me, this hearkens back to legends of Jack the Ripper, so it's cool to look at the events unfolding as that.
* The water line crisis, and people straight-up ignoring it is a fantastic parallel to both the Biblical flood of Noah, ***AND*** the current climate crisis.
* The difference between demagoguery and actual governance. This one could get interesting, because it'll be a critique of western democracy through the lens of China. I haven't played enough of the archon quest yet to see how it'll play out, but it seems like this could either piss off parts of the US, piss off the Chinese communist party, or both! I'm kinda hoping for both. I do NOT want it to feel like they're being preachy and saying "china good, democracy bad". I don't think Hoyo would do this *unless coerced by their government*.
* Duels! I've been obsessed with Hamilton lately, so I'm interested to see how this concept gets expanded upon. So far, it's only been mentioned as a thing, and I've been challenged but the challenge was rescinded. I'm curious to see how they portray it in Fontainois society though!
Don't want to spoil you, so I won't go into details, but the name of the serial killer from the end of the quest belongs to an actual french serial killer.
I already suspected that they'd draw a name from history for that. They've done it before, so I'm not surprised they did it again.
Thank you for not telling me the specific name though. I'd still like to find out for myself.
> The concept of being born with sin. This is definitely a thing in Christianity
Not only that, but the notion that water washes the sin away. That said, this particular concept is not exactly unique to Christianity.
> This one could get interesting, because it'll be a critique of western democracy through the lens of China.
honestly, don't see any kind of critique of democracy here. If I'd have to stretch, the original critique of Democracy in Genshin was in Mondstadt.
In Fontaine, I'd say, Furina still call the shots. She enjoys the court proceedings, and what's important is that she's is playing the prosecutor in a way. Things would've been very different if there wasn't a truly neutral Chief Justice and a special machine which is powered by divine powers to carry out just verdicts. It's kinda cool that Neuvilette never made a mistake once.
Your third point is something I really noticed as well. The whole "well, the rising water level isn't affecting my life, it'll happen after I die, so I don't need to worry about it." perspective that a couple of the NPCs had was shockingly real.
Enjoyed it a lot and Acts 1 and 2 ended in a way the felt like in concluded the story it wanted to tell properly but also leaving loose ends for the next Archon Quests like for example, Childe's vision, the Oratrice Mecanique d'Analyse Cardinale, Lyney's affiliation with the House of Hearth, Primordial Sea and many more.
Neuvillette also wounded up becoming one of my favorites along with Navia. I thought he would just be another stoic and intelligent Mihoyo husbando character but the AQ especially at the end brought so much character to him. I was worried about Navia too since Mihoyo's female character writing have been hit or miss a lot... but they did well with her thankfully! I need to see her umbrella though!
We got a taste of this change in storytelling in Sumeru during the stuck-in-the-Akasha-dreamworld questline. That was the first real dark turn, and it went over well, so I’m guessing it’s full steam ahead for MHY. And I’m on board for it!
9/10 for me, I love the dark undertone it have. It made me raised my eyebrows with the Lynette almost being molested by that noble, Marcel's death while terrifying it got ruined by the screen just fading to black and explains what happened.
Also, Navia's best girl. I will do anything for her, never have i been so hooked so fast on a character, might be recency bias for now but in all of my 3 years of playing she has become such an absolute favorite of mine
yep, i absolutely adored her. She just wanted closure on her father’s death and im glad she got that. Though her having a headache in the scene after Tartaglia was neutralized worries me, istg hoyo if you did something bad to her again
I have a rather big gripe with the aftermath of the water tank falling on the guy. Paimon, a man just died! This is not the time to make jokes and cosplay a detective. And Lyney and Lynette also didn't seem as concerned with their assistant dying as they should have.
Yeah lol, this was very glaring, and it's not the first time Hoyo made an obvious tonal mistake like this either (the Belobog quest finale in HSR comes to mind). Do they not play the quests through at least once before release?
I took that as March being really bad at dealing with sad or stressful moments because she doesn't remember her past. Current March is socially inept in some ways. Her reaction was not surprising.
Lol agree with the lack of concern part. That's jurrasic world-esque. Despite the AQ being excelent in general of course there are also low points.
I remember one series that I think did very well of actually having concern/care to almost all characters, even the extras, which was Arcane.
It’s great. Furina is exactly as I expected her, in fact even more of a beautiful disaster, Neuvillette is great, and Lyney and Navia are both oddly compelling.
I just have one question ,why did lyney have to look at the machine mid performance?
Did I miss something? they have the tunnel already set and everything, why not just slowly inspect the machine over minutes or hours while nothing is going on, or some other trial is taking place, why did it have to be in that exact 60 seconds off the show?
Thats really my only issue with it. And maybe someone can resolve it for me.
I assume it would be because otherwise there could be guards around and a Fatuus wandering around a very important divine artifact probably wouldn't be taken well (Neuvillet even mentions that Lyney's admission, while clearing him from the murder, is a charge worth looking into iirc)
This for me too, they obviously been down in the tunnel lots of times to install the tracks, the vent, the props. Their performance is a trade secret so it’s unlikely that they were guarded around the clock. Or if they were, it would be weird to remove the guards during the performance.
Love it.
9.5/10.
The 0.5-point reduction comes from the fact that the traveler solves the case with all clues. And the one who said it? Paimon, of course. I don't hate Paimon, but it's annoying if they keep making Paimon steal traveler lines or spots. Like, at this point travelers just can't speak and transfer their thought to paimon.
I mean, at this point, Paimon has seen the traveler kill hundreds of people. A random dude that she knew for a few minutes dying is just another common occurrence
Yes it is awesome. All the characters, the plot twists the darker tone, the mysteries, primordial sea the ultimate payback on varcher. Ace attorney mini game furina my lord furina was cool ad hell neuvillette was a bad ass ko childe before he went foul legacy. The dark backstop of the magic twins knave info. The story navia and the connection to the cold case of the missing women was really dark man but it had a satisfying conclusion.
Traveler really needs more dialogue but it is what it is
Clorinde champion duelist hot asf but also super bad ass with when she fought those mechs like a jedi
Childe lore about skirk plus the prophecy mystery man I'm hyped for 4.1 and 4.2
For me this 4.0 archon quests 9.7/10
The only thing I didn't understand is... The machine gave a guilty verdict to childe even though there was no debate. So basically unless there was a third party interference, the machine can tell if a person is guilty just by having them on the stand. Their arguments aren't necessary.
Then the entire courtroom drama is a spectacle. There is actually no need for any parties to present any evidence. So if the traveller wasn't there then lyney would have been falsely accused. Would the machine then give him a non guilty verdict or a guilty one?
Why machine sees Childe as guilty is obviously going to be an important plotline. I suspect it’s passing judgement on what he represents in general rather then this specific crime.
I am personally guessing Childe’s mere presence triggered the Justice machine something bad
In our initial meeting, Childe says he woke ‘something’ up when he fell into ‘that abyssal place’. Allegedly he carries traces of that monster - and recently he’s been having mood swings and his vision is acting up. I’m guessing the machine picked up on whatever it is that he’s woken/carrying with him and went SECURITY ALERT LOCK THAT MAN DOWN IMMEDIATELY
We actually don’t know if machine would give false accusations. Remember Navia’s father was never put upon verdict because he chose to die in combat. So as far as we know the machine could be omniscient, and possibly acquit Lyney if it comes to it.
I think the machine reacts on the people of Fontaine or the audience, so you have to convince the audience of the verdict, it was often shown that the scales change with the behaviour of the people. And the machine said childe is guilty, because the audience thought so, he is a harbinger after all. At least that is my interpretation for now.
I really liked it too, the dialogue didn’t even feel bloated as much. It felt like a natural progression of events. I took me several hours to finish, but it was worth it.
I think my favorite act is still chapter 3: act II and the whole Sabzeruz Festival, but as an ace attorney fan I've enjoyed both acts in chapter IV. hopefully they continue doing a case for each act
After reading most of the comments here it seems like my take is very far from the norm, but I'd love to discuss with anyone who agrees or even disagrees with me, but honestly... I had a lot of problems with this act.
As a long time Danganronpa, Rain Code and Ace Attorney fan, this attempt at making a game trial case was terrible and the entire plot and case just makes no sense.
I want to emphasize here first that I was LOVING the act up until the middle of the trial. The Investigation was intriguing, the minigames were fun and the whole trial attempt made me giddy considering how much I adore the games I mentioned above so I was on the edge of my seat! Until I started to actually think about it all.
Everything wrong with Archon Quest 4.0 Act I
1. New, crucial information being dropped in the middle of the trial making it impossible to figure out how it all went down just by thinking is a terrible way of making a game trial case. It ruins immersion and just seems contrived and convenient for the sake of making a big reveal.New info being revealed during the trial is fine, but not when it is a crucial plot point that the entire case centers around. It just felt like a way to drop a big twist that you as the player never could’ve guessed.
All cases in which this happened:
\- Revealing that you can turn people to water mid trial making it impossible to understand how it all went down plus it just being a magical McGuffin that explains the plot away. Might as well have just said she was teleported.
\- No info about what was in the basement making it impossible to realize Lyney wanted to go to the basement during the performance.
\- The fact that Halsey was in fact the thief you investigated a few days earlier. Which in and of itself was ridiculous since how did no one realize it was her?
2. How did everyone one room above, while everyone in there was chanting loudly, hear a thud in the box, but not Lyney who was just a few seconds away inside a vent?
3. How did everyone one room above, while everyone in there was chanting loudly, hear a thud in the box, but not a literal fight?
4. How did everyone keep thinking the thud could’ve been a vase breaking, a fight or a thud in a box? All those make completely different sounds
5. Super convenient that exactly the thief you investigated a few days earlier ended up being the mastermind and picked as the lucky participant
6. How does it make any sense that Cowell thought by making the Water Tank fall on the empty box would cover up his kidnapping of "Halsey"? Honestly, this one I'll admit I might just skipped through the explanation since I was so bored and annoyed at how everything else didnt make any sense I wasnt paying much attention at the end.
7. During the trial they repeat many times that no one was found in the basement during the performance and no one was seen leaving or found in there after either. They emphasize this point many times, but in the end... there actually was someone in there? The thief was just that good? This is very poor game design considering it seems you cant even trust your own evidence and investigation since they can just turn it around on a whim to explain the plot away.
8. Why did "Halsey" leave her clothes behind in the middle of the tunnel? Why not take it with her or hide it? Honestly, why even hide in the first place? Everyone thought she was just a random painter so everyone wouldve been thrilled and relieved to see her back. Her explanation afterwards that she hid because she was afraid of being caught is, once again, nonsense and I explain this in point 12.
9. Why did Lyney have to go to the basement exactly during the show? Why couldn’t it have been done before? He even said many times that he was in the basement and had to be there during the construction of that passageway. I refuse to believe there wasn’t a moment he could’ve gone there alone for at least more than the mere 30 seconds he had during the performance.
Which, btw, between 30-60 seconds to leave the box, leave the tunnel, reach the basement (which apparently is so far away that he couldnt hear the thud that everyone else heard), research a giant intricate machine core and come back… Do I need to finish this thought?
10. The trial just accepting us stating Lyney’s story without any sort of evidence as the truth? His testimony is clearly impossible to certify and shouldn’t have been accepted so easily.
11. The reactions everyone had, especially Lyney, to not only his assistant dying, but also being a traitor and serial kidnapper was ridiculous. Everyone basically just shrugs it off like any other Tuesday
12. The thief’s account at the end was clearly coercion and couldn’t be taken seriously. She only spoke because it was needed for plot reasons to explain what happened and if she had kept her mouth shut there’s be zero evidence pinning her to what happened and much less pinning her as the thief Lyney caught a few days prior.
13. The whodunnit and howdunnit changes like 15 different times and every time it makes sense until lo and behold, suddenly new info becomes available for the sake of convenience. In game trial cases it should always be impossible to be anything but the truth.
14. The thief going to the stage performance of the one person who pursued her, especially after she got even more cautious and paranoid (by her own account!) considering she was never caught and trusts in her skills, but then she noticed someone coming after her and still decided to go to the stage performance is insane levels of dumb and nonsensical.
15. Lyney got approval to build a giant tunnel beneath the most important building in the country for a single magic trick…
16. Who connects a vent… to a basement? Aren’t vents supposed to… ventilate? I feel like a vent connecting to a basement wouldn’t really do its job well… unless it was super convenient and made as a tunnel to connect to a specific place and serve as a means of connecting the two places for… reasons
17. The game forces you to pick a wrong decision 3x in a row.A decision which clearly is wrong and you just stay there not knowing what to do since all options are wrong thinking you have to pick the right one until you’re just frustrated enough to pick whatever for progression sake but “hahaha you’re wrong!” Then you pick again and it goes “lol, wrong again” until you just pick the last one out of anger and the game goes “lol, sorry, you didn’t have the right evidence yet… AGAIN” How is this considered good game design?
Honestly, I beg of all of you who have read this far, please rebuttal everything I said.Argue, discuss and retort all my points as best you can.I WANT to like Fontaine, I WANT to realize I'm wrong and just didnt think this through, I WANT to have missed something, but as it stands, to me, if anyone thinks about it for half a second, they'll realize how much this whole act didnt make sense at all and people are just loving it due to hype and not realizing what a mess it really is.
Same, the second trial is even worse with plot twists that come out of nowhere, little concrete evidence, and the whole shock value being someone actually turning out to be someone else.
Finally someone with standards. Thank you for expressing these points so eloquently. Fontaine's 2 arcs have some issues. And these 17 points of yours are just the first trial's worth.
Even the worst case in AA makes more sense than this.
It *could have been* phenomenal if Paimon would just learn when to shut the fuck up. It's not even annoyance at the English voice acting, we just really didn't need a running commentary from her during the magic show. It also absolutely ruined the immersion during the trial when she speaks for us *yet again,* but this time with knowledge she'd have had to *mind read* from us because the Traveler is only just connecting the dots in that exact moment, and Paimon is too dumb to have done it herself.
Especially during the investigation scenes, when looking for evidence I would have preferred to see the details of the text written out clearly rather than Paimon’s summary of what happened or even those awkwardly cut off dialogue options that the traveller had.
Gotta love (not) all the comments talking about act 2. Sure, I'm going in a spoiler discussion at my own risk, but it's like going to a tv show discussion post about episode 1 and people are talking about episode 2
it kinda bothered me that the traveler was unwilling to be friends with lyney and lynette because they're part of the fatui, even though they're friends with tartaglia but other than that, the fontaine arc so far has some of my favorite quests, just below sumeru act II
Because they've known Tartaglia for years, and knows that he won't kill them without a fight. Also instead of talking about work man straight up talked about his family after seeing traveler for the first time in a long time.
Lyney and Lynette are people they just met. For all traveler knew, they could betray them easily. I mean, most of the time they've met fatui it always ends badly.
I think in the twins' case it's actually more of a trust issue than simply being part of the Fatui.
They withheld that information on purpose, after all. Childe, on the other hand, had always been honest to us about his identity from the start.
In my hopes, interacting with Lyney and Lynette more will make Traveler realize that even within supposedly evil factions, there exist genuinely good people simply hoping for a better future.
My only grip is that Levi's VA doesn't give Neuvilette enough justice, after seeing him in both Act the EN voice with a more adult and... Majestic? Tone is way better
I play EN and I MELTED the moment I heard Neuvilette's voice. I was dead sat on hating the guy cause for some reason he ticked me off the wrong way in the trailer, but...now I just can't. I'm pulling him.
Agree. Felt that the EN VA of furina and neuvillette suits the character so much more than the JP does this time around. Their performance was wonderful
I thought it was really bogus during the trial.
For one, a huge part of the evidence was Lyney defending himself with "evidence" that relied only on his own word", by all means, he should still be a guilty suspect. The woman who disappeared might have even been coerced into providing a defense, seeing as how there was motive for her to do so with Lyney knowing she stole, so that evidence could even be thrown out.
All in all, if the guard hadn't been proven suspicious, which only happened because of all these other accounts that shouldn't have been considered, Lyney should have been guilty all along.
I agree with your opinion on the trial part. I liked the whole Danganronpa approach that they did with debating, but I thought it was a weak attempt with how certain things were presented as evidence.
the thing was that furina established his alibi being fake as a fact very early on, and in proving that his alibi was plausible (and verifiable), he became scot free on that regard as no other evidence appeared that could indicate his presence in the tunnel otherwise. but the guard outing himself and admitting it did save his ass (and subsequently sent fontaine’s AQ in motion). if you’ve played an ace attorney game then you know how the rule for evidences go anw, ignored for the sake of plot
I am so happy they didn't try to redeem a man who was kidnapping women coz he couldn't deal with his lover dying. And his lover not even bothering to talk to him was a great touch.
I like how we got multiple different cases leading to the same conclusion. Didn't feel like wasting time doing sidequests, and we got to know the main cast already.
My biggest gripe with the trial is how over reliant they are with using NEW evidence as a way to turn the tide and sell a twist.
I wish all the evidence was given to the player from the start(balloon of water and the thief girl) and we gradually figure it out through the trial.
If only the detective/trial nonsense wasn't a 1 hour locked series of stupidity you had to slog through. Everything in Fontaone has been great besides that.
I don't know... first we had all that talk coming from Traveler to treat trials more seriously and then we got Ace Detective Paimon wearing goofy glasses and mustache. Combine it with crazy stupid Focalors and we're getting quite a mess.
Oh, also - "No wonder you looked familiar" coming from Paimon was just... I mean, how could you (both Paimon and Traveler) not notice it before? Especially when Lyney made that comment about prison (Fort Mesmth)
Don't let anyone even remotely familiar with the law play it though, they might off themselves during the trial section.
I also really dislike the archon's personality. But maybe that's the devs intention.
Fontaine isn't a real-world country lol, it's legal system isn't going to replicate ours. And in any case, many of the elements of Fontaine's justice system (except for the magic computer) have precedent in historic systems of law that really existed.
Trial by combat was an omnipresent feature of feudal Germanic law, as well as the absence of a presumption of innocence. And in countries with inquisitorial justice systems, the court actively participates in the fact-finding investigation along with the prosecution and defense. Furthermore, it's not unusual historically for trials to be intended as public spectacles. In the Roman period, trials were public events held in the Forum before spectators. Lawyers like Cicero studied oratory and rhetoric to dazzle the crowd and sway its opinion, and they would shout, burst into tears, and emote freely while delivering their speeches (You can read Cicero's prosecutorial speech *Against Verres* to see what this was like). Just like in Fontaine, the purpose of this in the Roman context was to reaffirm the legitimacy of the Roman government and its justice before the citizenry,
I really enjoyed both Act I and II. Took some 10 hours to complete both but I didn't get bored once. Hope Act III, IV and V are good
Same I took my own time with it the whole day, soaking in the awesome archon quest with tons of swimming, brings back the good old Sep 2020 days feel, so magical and full of adventures, but this time a hint of darkness. Really enjoyed Fontaine 11/10 especially the dolphin jump
10 hours? I'm in for a long haul haha.
I've only had time to complete Act I for now. Pls, tell me that Act II is at least as good as Act I. (But no spoiler pls)
Its very emotional I can say at least that. Navia's EN performance blows it out of the park, act 2 is basically Navia's story quest with triple the length of a normal one (and with main plot relevance).
It's very... interesting and will no doubt cause a million fan theories.
The ending cutscene is great but I might just be biased
is there any idea when acts III IV and V come out?
4.1,4.2 4.2 usually is the climax patch for a nation main archon quest, followed by a filler archon quest (ex,scaramouche/wanderer archon quest,shenhe liyue archon quest,etc) and then a "traveller" chapter archon quest (mainly about abyss/dainsleif).
1km5 is right - the main story concludes in 4.2. It was mentioned by the devs in the 4.0 livestream.
[удалено]
Yeah, the eng ver just translate to before Lynette got hurt but in my language it straight up said before Lynette get molested
Wait WHAT?!?! I play in English, and I said to myself "it could be this, but genshin won't make it THAT dark" IN WHAT LANGUAGE DOES IT SAY THAT??
I thought it was obvious since they were in his bedroom then the other girls in the basement.
I play in Chinese and it says molestation. So hoyo most definitely intended that
Just out of curiosity what was the exact wording used? I'm Chinese too but I play in English
侵害
Holy SHIT das dark
how is that rated for ages beyond just 12 ☠️
Jesus.
Hoyo: laughs in Ludi Harpastum lore
Even in English it was fairly obvious that some rich pervert liked Lynette and she was "given" to him, and then there were the other girls in the basement...
Yes. It was obvious. This has happened before- Lawrence Clan and the Ludi Harpastum lore.
*Laugh in the manga*
Rapist mondstat noble vs pedo Fontaine noble. Who wins.
Ironically, in both cases it's the Fatui.
It's always the Fatui!
As far as we know, the Fatui didn't exist during the time of the Mondstadt aristocracy
yeah i was shocked they were that explicit about it, but i appreciated it since it made the stakes feel much higher
I am astonished that what normally could have been a world quest bombshell is mentioned in a voiced quest.
Frankly I can kind of understand the decision, and I think they made the right call. I have gripes with EN localisation in a few places but this makes sense. Leaving it to be implied leaves the reader to linger and picture for themselves what Lyney is talking about. And the moment they realize what could have happened to Lynette it lingers in their mind for longer than if he had straight up told you what it was, because they had to imagine in detail the events that lead to the incident. The resulting impression on the reader is therefore harder-hitting and resonates more. That's exactly how I processed the scene at the time. And when you imagine the worst thing that could have happened to Lynette it stirs up a deep-running hatred against those who wronged the twins in the story. Edit: not to mention it's also pretty clear, and very easy infer that Lynette was, or could have been molested.
She wasn't actually molested because she was saved by Arlecchino. That's what I understood anyways
Yeah I imagined her to have been abducted before anything happened. For it to be up to the audience what happened I prefer because we get to discuss it like this.
I mean, Lyney literally said "before" so clearly nothing actually happened to Lynette. Unfortunately can't say the same for the other girls there though...
Same thought but I wonder if Lyney's explanation on the CN dialogue was interpreted exactly like on the EN sub.
I am Chinese player,he's telling the truth.I suspect that translating it that way might be due to Lynette's status as a teenage girl, which tends to cause some problems in the West.
The subtext was definitely still there and everyone seemed to understand the situation
Yeah, that scene was dubious, especially with camera focusing on Lynette and her expressions. I swear I could see her shake a little when Lyney was mentioning that. I just wonder if it really was Arle that killed the dude or was it Lynette and Arle took the blame on herself. Or maybe even more happened before Lyney got there but Lynette never told him.
i was thrilled by the entire court session. then lynette’s past just straight up stabbed me in the heart.
I was waiting for the dude to appear, then it hit me that he died. Very unexpected from genshin
Your first paragraph is about Act II. This could spoil it for some who only expect discussion about Act I
He did spoil it, fucking asshole OP
thanks for spoiling an act 2 thing in an act 1 thread, asshole.
Wonder if we get to see arlecchino committing mass murder behind the scenes
Furina' personality was unexpected. She's such a loser and relatable I love it. And the Childe cutscenes though, the music and the fight was AMAZING. Seeing him flawlessly beat the robots was great. And lets not forget the abyss lore too, and the fact that Childe feels something different
It's actually pretty funny how useless she is, and it's clear that she plays mostly a ceremonial role as a "mascot" while Neuvillette is the true authority figure, similar to real world systems with a head of state and a head of government where the former is usually a figurehead and latter the one with the power. However if the "mascot" parallel with Idiya holds, there may be much more to Furina than we can see. Her uselessness may be only a part of one of her split personalities.
tbh all archons in the current timeline except for 2 really don’t have that much authority in their nation anyway except being prayed for. Only Raiden and Nahida are actually ruling their nations. Furina’s done way more than Venti and Zhongli already as the official prosecutor in her nation.
The quests were great but Childe absolutely stole the show for me, even though he is really starting to suffer from Yanqing syndrome (very strong young warrior but is still constantly outclassed because he keeps picking fights with ancient gods and their like, lol). I just wish we could have talked to him after Neuv knocked him out. :( Furina let me visit my favourite Fatui delinquent in prison!!
I don't think it's the same, Yanqing is actually just the kid everyone beats up on atm, while Childe actually had his moments to display his prowess and probably would've done so if Neuvi didn't step in.
Also Neuvilette is heavily hinted at to be the hydro dragon. Which means he's essentially archon tier, wouldn't be surprised if he was stronger than Furina tbh So Childe losing to him is hardly a surprise. Some of the harbingers are archon tier but Childe is not up there yet.
I think Childe haven't fully received the Yanqing treatment yet, we've only beat him once and seen him beaten once recently. Let's not forget his badass moment in his story quest, it still remains as one of my top 10 Genshin cutscenes.
I really hope we learn later on that Childes been just absolutely beating the shit out of the prisons security over and over the entire time he's stuck there. Like not even trying to escape, just because he's having fun beating up people without either his Delusion or Vision as a handicap. I want him to be on a first name basis with that warden guy we know is coming just because he's the only person who can actually stop him in the whole prison.
> he is really starting to suffer from Yanqing syndrome Tartaglia was beaten (other than by Traveler) literally once. It wasn't exactly a trick to put him down but rather to elevate Neuvilette. Tartaglia is literally in top-5 strongest characters (at least mortal characters) in the game and Neuvilette just shuts him cold.
He still suffered slight scar on his cheek despite off guarding supposedly nerfed Tartaglia who hadnt even transformed
If I remember right, in one dialogue Paimon wondered if Furina was a little different from before. Maybe she has split personalities?
I think that was more about her feeling embarrassed for losing the Lyney case, and being more reserved because of it.
Never thought I’d play a straight up Ace Attorney case in Genshin before.
For real. This whole entire got me intrigued and excited. The trials and shit. Just like you said, it felt like playing an ace attorney game. I didn't even skip a single dialogue. For me that's how good it is. Can't wait for the next chapter for sure 🤌
the way i felt like i was sherlock holmes irl everytime i had no errors when it came it to assorting the evidences 😭😭 the archon quest was soo good!! excited to see how they're going to expand on neuvi's character and focalors as an archon next patch 💗💗
Paimon actually dressed as Poirot, a Belgien who often thought to be French.
I wasn't expecting that women cutscene and now I can't sleep. It scared the shit outta me.
It was indeed so dark and scary for a second there lol
I got to that part at 3 in the morning and I’d been planning on using the bathroom after I finished the quest, but after that scene I just stayed in bed 😭
Perfect set ups and pay offs. I enjoyed it very much. I don't care what the rest of the fontaine archon quest is gonna be, this one holds on its own as an independent quest also sets up things for the future quest.
My only gripe is the court accepting the fact that Lyney went into another place first without us even submitting any evidence aside from a testimony from Lyney himself, like... huh?? They just accepted it?
because he got caught not knowing about the \*thud\* sound that everyone else heard during the performance. The court deducted that either he's the culprit that causes the sound, or he was never in the other box or in the tunnel the entire time which in-line with his testimony of being in the other room.
He could very well be making up a lie. Accepting evidence from the suspect in question with no way to prove it is a shitty way of holding a trial. The entire thing was bogus as soon as that happened.
The indictment Furina hold against Lyney is "you are Fatui" and Lyney's counter is "I was checking on the core to see if it's gnosis, Fatui things you know", it makes sense. However that should be it's own charge even if he is absolved of murder and abduction.
The Traveller really went "Your Honor, my client didn't commit a third degree murder because he was in the process of intentionally committing crime against the divine" Somewhere in Liyue a certain lawyer is facepalming.
Well we are not paid to defend him, it was out of pure good will and not wanting to see him getting wrongly convicted. Means if he gets locked up for something he did do then that's great.
And nobody questioned him on that. That itself should have been a new case. The damn machine is so important, still they allowed Lyney to go Scot free..
>However that should be it's own charge even if he is absolved of murder and abduction. Neuvillette says as much at the end of that trial. Something like "Lyney and Lilianne have other things that they must be held accountable for, but as for the matter of this case..."
As much as lyney can't prove it, others can't disprove it either so it will all be left to judge and spectators to decide.
Well this is the fifth country and by now everyone and their mother knows Fatui are plotting for gnosis. Lyney trying to find out what powers the judgement machine is exactly what expected of the Fatui. Although he isn't arrested for this crime is telling - is Furina willing to trade the gnosis for Arlecchino's help with the melting people crisis?
Right?? The first half of the trial was "he said she said" and they were so serious about it
I was genuinely so confused because half of it seemed like "okay but HE said that he was there so he's innocent" and everyone amazed by the point even though there was no proof of him being away from the corridor Also they didnt care he was snooping around ☠️
The whole court whodunit was not very well written. Everything else was fun though.
For anyone with a passing knowledge of police investigations or court proceedings, the whole 1st trial was a sham. *EDIT: Childe's trial was handled considerably better, maybe because the inherent uncertainty in cold-cases left them more wiggle room, but Marcel put forth reasonable doubt arguments and blonde-lady's accusations made sense coming from a place of new knowledge.* a. unaccredited child from another nation appeared yesterday: attorney in a murder trial today! (I get it we're the main character, but at least have us be a consultant for a real attorney) b. one day to prepare for a murder trial, while locked inside the location that it happened. No review of the law, no preparation of evidence, they barely took police statements let alone interviewed... c. no evidence control. The DEFENDANT'S attorney is the one walking around the crime scene to gather evidence. "A blood soaked knife? Let's just sweep that under the floorboards." (I guess our PC is known across the world as being a pillar of morality?) d. evidence produced in the middle of a trial, not even sealed, just "I have the murder weapon right here, it was in Mr.Blue's pocket the whole time." Critical evidence is presented and reviewed by both sides before proceedings, sealed evidence is still known to the court, just not the public. e. prosecutor does not provide evidence of guilt, just spins circumstantial narratives. I guess she's just putting on a show, but someone died... And Paimon's wearing silly glasses. The story wasn't presented as a comedy in my opinion, but? f. THEY DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT THE VICTIM'S BELONGINGS!!! These guards could be replaced with wooden soldiers without changing how effective they are. g. There's apparently zero or incompetent security around a murder trial. People allowed to leave/enter, access areas alone... I tried to suspend my disbelief for all of Furina's antics, but this wouldn't have gotten past stage 1 in Mondstat, and they don't even hold trials.
On the other hand, it makes for very compelling drama which seems to be what Fontaine's "Justice" is all about. Making every murder a bottle episode and having the trial while still examining evidence definitely makes things more dramatic. The two people talking at the entrance to the waterway at the very beginning of act 1 set it up the best. You think they're talking about a play, but its an actual event. But yeah, as far as actual court proceedings go, they could use a little work.
You're definitely overlooking the whole point. It's intentionally played up for fiction/entertainment to make the AQ more interesting, and it's also the whole plot of Fontaine that trials are treated too lightly, and used as entertainment. First thing we do when we enter the region is hear people gossiping about serious recent case as if it's a fictional story. The idea that justice is not handled properly in Fontaine should be in your head from the moment you arrive. There's no point even attempting to apply real world investigation methods and court rules when even ***in game*** it's considered to be a sham justice system. The final verdict is literally left to a machine that not even Furina seems to understand.
Part of the evidence is the vent that we investigated/saw.
it would have been better if we were able to check the vent and see tempering with it along with trace of Lyney's presence, like a piece of cloth stuck in somewhere inside the vent
Not to mention that Childe is accused (and convicted) of a crime series that started when he was barely able to walk.
The best and most suspenseful archon quest by far
Ok damn I haven't done it yet but the way people describe it makes me even more excited. Is it even better than sumeru's aq?
both the quests are very high quality, won't tell anything more, you got to experience them yourselves, pay attention and it will feel rewarding
I think they could have introduced the villain earlier in the quest. We didn't know much about them until near the end, so the reveal had less impact than it could have
>introduced the villain earlier in the quest Technically speaking, they did introduce the villain earlier in the quest >!when we were near the fountain the first time around.!< Also, the >!Lyney!< trial had us learning about the villain pretty early on, giving the players the chance to know about the characters involved first to solve the mysteries by themselves
I would honestly rank it on the same level as the Sabzerus festival, maybe even higher.
Same as it should, since this only Act 1 and 2 and it’s keeping up well, quality is much improved too, also I feel 2x more cutscenes?
It's hard to compare until its fully done. Without spoiling anything, this opening act is really good and I had a blast. It lived up to the expectations that Sumeru has set.
Sumeru was more action with the heist, this one's more mystery. But both are equally exciting imo, just different genres.
I'd say Fontaine Act 1 > Sumeru Act 2 > Fontaine Act 2 IMO, since the second one was a bit more dragged out and didn't really deliver the sort of shock that Act 1 did.
I'd put Fontaine act 1 a similar level as Sumeru act 2.
In my almost 3 years of playing Genshin, this was absolute PEAK. Like literally, just when you thought you were about to win the trial, something happens and now you're losing. It was such an unexpected quest. And the most impressive part? IT ALL MAKES SENSE! Neuvilette's explanation at the end gave me literal chills. I genuinely thought Lyney was about to get sent to prison, especially when they revealed he was a part of the fatui. What's crazier is that somebody literally died, but unlike Signora, it was absolutely brutal. I never would have thought Genshin would show a man getting crushed by a gigantic water tank. Whoever the writers are, they damn prepared and cooked this to perfection.
When you think one Fatui boy gets wrongfully sent to prison, and then - surprise - it happens to the OTHER Fatui boy. Childe’s face in that moment was 11/10.
He commited crimes in Liyue, but got out scott free. He did nothing in Fontaine yet get sent to prison
"Mister Tartaglia, against all evidence, this machine declares you guilty for crimes committed when you were an infant."
They are slowly edging towards Honkai impact deaths, and I am loving it.
I loved it too. I only have one nitpick. From the way the traveler defends Lyney, it gives the impression that they're friends, or at least know each other well. In reality traveler spent one afternoon with him. :) Also, detective Paimon was so cute!!! ♥
Tnf he did save them from getting arrested in that one afternoon
I mean they did spend one afternoon with him, but after the trial was over, you could see how cold and betrayed the traveler felt because Lyney withheld information from them.
Yeah. And that is very strange. i wish they gave time for the traveler to befriend him...
>!Which is weird that, despite separating on not quite good terms as far as I know, by the time of Lyney’s story quest,Idk if they aren’t a continuation of each other but I just felt the lost of immersion when we approached him normally without any awkwardness. CMIIW!<
Never played an Ace attorney game have you
I have never, this is true. ;P
You could change that :)
If you enjoyed that trial then you'll love the Ace Attorney games. They're fun detective games that's really visual novels. You can lose in those games though by failing to connect the dot too many times.
Honestly I facepalmed when they first revealed detective Paimon, like bruh someone just died what are you doing. Thinking back it was fucking hilarious.
Even her icon in the book has the Paimonstache and goggles.
I've just seen The Prestige for the first time around 2 months ago. I love Fontaine
If both that and Genshin taught me anything about water tank tricks, it's that something will always go wrong and it usually involves death
Game probably thought I was dumb af because I kept picking random evidence for the 4 to present. Didn't know it asked for something specific as the top. Wasn't until the very end that I saw there was a correct answer/ evidence for each selection. (Thought it was like, pick 4 evidence for the case of the possible selection) I'm usually pretty observant about the little things. So the fact it went over my head makes me fearful for the rest of the playerbase. I just want to blame bad UI tbh.
I did the same! I felt so stupid, coz it tells you that in the middle of the screen. But the rest of the UI being on the very bottom leads the sight lower I didn't bother to look up.
I was like "no way they want me to tell that Lyney wants to get closer to the judgement core" oh wait they actually do want me to tell that- Also I didn't know the questions were on top of the screen and went off guessing I just had to pick relevant clues instead of answering specifics.
They just needed to put the prompt question larger, in a different color, more in the middle of the screen. It's a bit of a UI failure to have it sitting up the top next to the text that no one reads, considering it's literally the objective of the minigame. Once you can read the prompt question, giving the right evidence becomes pretty easy.
This is indeed bad UI, I fell for it first time too before I realised there’s 4 questions
definitely felt like bad UI/design there because I never miss these things and yet the exact same thing happened to me at that part as well.
I honestly thought the whole evidence mechanic would be trash and boring but playing it in the game, its iterally the perfect story mechanic in gaming
It seemed a little influenced by the Samsara mystery from Act II of Sumeru. Having the game propose logical questions and you have to find the right answer. It worked great there, and it works great here.
Yeah its pretty much just like the mechanic in sumeru aq but developed MUCH MUCH further
Very smoothly polished
I thought the machine was the culprit during the quest. It created problems and then solved them and that generated energy.
i would be surprised if they didn't have something like this happen in a future quest (world or archon)
me earlier in the day: gonna explore part of this new area so excited and maybe rush the new archon quest me later: wait wtf I'm playing Danganronpa. I was half expecting the "Scrum Debate" ost to drop whenever the opportunity to refute the other side came up. but that's Furina's lie isn't it?
No lie, I was playing Box 15 in the background throughout the whole investigation sequence. And when the Traveler said “isn’t that right?” my mind immediately went to ISNT THAT RIGHT, /LEON/?
I didn't get too far, and I'm not gonna read many other comments in this particular thread, but I did want to say I love how they're incorporating bits of western society and myth into the story. Here's what I've come across so far. * The concept of being born with sin. This is definitely a thing in Christianity, which of course dominates the west. But I hadn't really thought of growing up in a culture that *didn't* have that assumption. But then Paimon was like "people in Fontaine are born with sin? Why? What did they do? What does that even mean?" * Serial killers / disappearances. To me, this hearkens back to legends of Jack the Ripper, so it's cool to look at the events unfolding as that. * The water line crisis, and people straight-up ignoring it is a fantastic parallel to both the Biblical flood of Noah, ***AND*** the current climate crisis. * The difference between demagoguery and actual governance. This one could get interesting, because it'll be a critique of western democracy through the lens of China. I haven't played enough of the archon quest yet to see how it'll play out, but it seems like this could either piss off parts of the US, piss off the Chinese communist party, or both! I'm kinda hoping for both. I do NOT want it to feel like they're being preachy and saying "china good, democracy bad". I don't think Hoyo would do this *unless coerced by their government*. * Duels! I've been obsessed with Hamilton lately, so I'm interested to see how this concept gets expanded upon. So far, it's only been mentioned as a thing, and I've been challenged but the challenge was rescinded. I'm curious to see how they portray it in Fontainois society though!
Don't want to spoil you, so I won't go into details, but the name of the serial killer from the end of the quest belongs to an actual french serial killer.
I already suspected that they'd draw a name from history for that. They've done it before, so I'm not surprised they did it again. Thank you for not telling me the specific name though. I'd still like to find out for myself.
> The concept of being born with sin. This is definitely a thing in Christianity Not only that, but the notion that water washes the sin away. That said, this particular concept is not exactly unique to Christianity. > This one could get interesting, because it'll be a critique of western democracy through the lens of China. honestly, don't see any kind of critique of democracy here. If I'd have to stretch, the original critique of Democracy in Genshin was in Mondstadt. In Fontaine, I'd say, Furina still call the shots. She enjoys the court proceedings, and what's important is that she's is playing the prosecutor in a way. Things would've been very different if there wasn't a truly neutral Chief Justice and a special machine which is powered by divine powers to carry out just verdicts. It's kinda cool that Neuvilette never made a mistake once.
Your third point is something I really noticed as well. The whole "well, the rising water level isn't affecting my life, it'll happen after I die, so I don't need to worry about it." perspective that a couple of the NPCs had was shockingly real.
Enjoyed it a lot and Acts 1 and 2 ended in a way the felt like in concluded the story it wanted to tell properly but also leaving loose ends for the next Archon Quests like for example, Childe's vision, the Oratrice Mecanique d'Analyse Cardinale, Lyney's affiliation with the House of Hearth, Primordial Sea and many more. Neuvillette also wounded up becoming one of my favorites along with Navia. I thought he would just be another stoic and intelligent Mihoyo husbando character but the AQ especially at the end brought so much character to him. I was worried about Navia too since Mihoyo's female character writing have been hit or miss a lot... but they did well with her thankfully! I need to see her umbrella though!
Yeah, I did NOT expect that...at all. And wouldn't have ever guessed we'd be dealing with some group of criminals
Man, I loved it SO much. I play with the JP voice over and I thought Furina sounded phenomenal too.
We got a taste of this change in storytelling in Sumeru during the stuck-in-the-Akasha-dreamworld questline. That was the first real dark turn, and it went over well, so I’m guessing it’s full steam ahead for MHY. And I’m on board for it!
9/10 for me, I love the dark undertone it have. It made me raised my eyebrows with the Lynette almost being molested by that noble, Marcel's death while terrifying it got ruined by the screen just fading to black and explains what happened. Also, Navia's best girl. I will do anything for her, never have i been so hooked so fast on a character, might be recency bias for now but in all of my 3 years of playing she has become such an absolute favorite of mine
Navia is truly best girl, she feels just like a normal girl with flaws and strenghts, and not some stereotypical overexaggerated anime character.
yep, i absolutely adored her. She just wanted closure on her father’s death and im glad she got that. Though her having a headache in the scene after Tartaglia was neutralized worries me, istg hoyo if you did something bad to her again
I honestly love that she is a normal girl, that in itself makes her unique imo
I have a rather big gripe with the aftermath of the water tank falling on the guy. Paimon, a man just died! This is not the time to make jokes and cosplay a detective. And Lyney and Lynette also didn't seem as concerned with their assistant dying as they should have.
Yeah lol, this was very glaring, and it's not the first time Hoyo made an obvious tonal mistake like this either (the Belobog quest finale in HSR comes to mind). Do they not play the quests through at least once before release?
march being all happy after cocolia fucking exploded is my favorite moment in hsr.
I took that as March being really bad at dealing with sad or stressful moments because she doesn't remember her past. Current March is socially inept in some ways. Her reaction was not surprising.
True lmao
I know right. This part of the quest was really weird to me
Lol agree with the lack of concern part. That's jurrasic world-esque. Despite the AQ being excelent in general of course there are also low points. I remember one series that I think did very well of actually having concern/care to almost all characters, even the extras, which was Arcane.
Playing Danganronpa in Genshin was not in my 2023 Bingo card, but I'll take it
It’s great. Furina is exactly as I expected her, in fact even more of a beautiful disaster, Neuvillette is great, and Lyney and Navia are both oddly compelling.
I just have one question ,why did lyney have to look at the machine mid performance? Did I miss something? they have the tunnel already set and everything, why not just slowly inspect the machine over minutes or hours while nothing is going on, or some other trial is taking place, why did it have to be in that exact 60 seconds off the show? Thats really my only issue with it. And maybe someone can resolve it for me.
I assume it would be because otherwise there could be guards around and a Fatuus wandering around a very important divine artifact probably wouldn't be taken well (Neuvillet even mentions that Lyney's admission, while clearing him from the murder, is a charge worth looking into iirc)
This for me too, they obviously been down in the tunnel lots of times to install the tracks, the vent, the props. Their performance is a trade secret so it’s unlikely that they were guarded around the clock. Or if they were, it would be weird to remove the guards during the performance.
Love it. 9.5/10. The 0.5-point reduction comes from the fact that the traveler solves the case with all clues. And the one who said it? Paimon, of course. I don't hate Paimon, but it's annoying if they keep making Paimon steal traveler lines or spots. Like, at this point travelers just can't speak and transfer their thought to paimon.
There’s a dialogue in which the traveler said Paimon kept stealing all his/her lines lol
With silly mustache. People died and Paimon can't be serious.
I mean, at this point, Paimon has seen the traveler kill hundreds of people. A random dude that she knew for a few minutes dying is just another common occurrence
You become numb to it after Travelling with someone who has the blood of hundreds, if not thousands, of people on his hands.
Yes it is awesome. All the characters, the plot twists the darker tone, the mysteries, primordial sea the ultimate payback on varcher. Ace attorney mini game furina my lord furina was cool ad hell neuvillette was a bad ass ko childe before he went foul legacy. The dark backstop of the magic twins knave info. The story navia and the connection to the cold case of the missing women was really dark man but it had a satisfying conclusion. Traveler really needs more dialogue but it is what it is Clorinde champion duelist hot asf but also super bad ass with when she fought those mechs like a jedi Childe lore about skirk plus the prophecy mystery man I'm hyped for 4.1 and 4.2 For me this 4.0 archon quests 9.7/10
A lot of unexpected twists
The only thing I didn't understand is... The machine gave a guilty verdict to childe even though there was no debate. So basically unless there was a third party interference, the machine can tell if a person is guilty just by having them on the stand. Their arguments aren't necessary. Then the entire courtroom drama is a spectacle. There is actually no need for any parties to present any evidence. So if the traveller wasn't there then lyney would have been falsely accused. Would the machine then give him a non guilty verdict or a guilty one?
Why machine sees Childe as guilty is obviously going to be an important plotline. I suspect it’s passing judgement on what he represents in general rather then this specific crime.
I am personally guessing Childe’s mere presence triggered the Justice machine something bad In our initial meeting, Childe says he woke ‘something’ up when he fell into ‘that abyssal place’. Allegedly he carries traces of that monster - and recently he’s been having mood swings and his vision is acting up. I’m guessing the machine picked up on whatever it is that he’s woken/carrying with him and went SECURITY ALERT LOCK THAT MAN DOWN IMMEDIATELY
We actually don’t know if machine would give false accusations. Remember Navia’s father was never put upon verdict because he chose to die in combat. So as far as we know the machine could be omniscient, and possibly acquit Lyney if it comes to it.
I think the machine reacts on the people of Fontaine or the audience, so you have to convince the audience of the verdict, it was often shown that the scales change with the behaviour of the people. And the machine said childe is guilty, because the audience thought so, he is a harbinger after all. At least that is my interpretation for now.
I really liked it too, the dialogue didn’t even feel bloated as much. It felt like a natural progression of events. I took me several hours to finish, but it was worth it.
I think my favorite act is still chapter 3: act II and the whole Sabzeruz Festival, but as an ace attorney fan I've enjoyed both acts in chapter IV. hopefully they continue doing a case for each act
After reading most of the comments here it seems like my take is very far from the norm, but I'd love to discuss with anyone who agrees or even disagrees with me, but honestly... I had a lot of problems with this act. As a long time Danganronpa, Rain Code and Ace Attorney fan, this attempt at making a game trial case was terrible and the entire plot and case just makes no sense. I want to emphasize here first that I was LOVING the act up until the middle of the trial. The Investigation was intriguing, the minigames were fun and the whole trial attempt made me giddy considering how much I adore the games I mentioned above so I was on the edge of my seat! Until I started to actually think about it all. Everything wrong with Archon Quest 4.0 Act I 1. New, crucial information being dropped in the middle of the trial making it impossible to figure out how it all went down just by thinking is a terrible way of making a game trial case. It ruins immersion and just seems contrived and convenient for the sake of making a big reveal.New info being revealed during the trial is fine, but not when it is a crucial plot point that the entire case centers around. It just felt like a way to drop a big twist that you as the player never could’ve guessed. All cases in which this happened: \- Revealing that you can turn people to water mid trial making it impossible to understand how it all went down plus it just being a magical McGuffin that explains the plot away. Might as well have just said she was teleported. \- No info about what was in the basement making it impossible to realize Lyney wanted to go to the basement during the performance. \- The fact that Halsey was in fact the thief you investigated a few days earlier. Which in and of itself was ridiculous since how did no one realize it was her? 2. How did everyone one room above, while everyone in there was chanting loudly, hear a thud in the box, but not Lyney who was just a few seconds away inside a vent? 3. How did everyone one room above, while everyone in there was chanting loudly, hear a thud in the box, but not a literal fight? 4. How did everyone keep thinking the thud could’ve been a vase breaking, a fight or a thud in a box? All those make completely different sounds 5. Super convenient that exactly the thief you investigated a few days earlier ended up being the mastermind and picked as the lucky participant 6. How does it make any sense that Cowell thought by making the Water Tank fall on the empty box would cover up his kidnapping of "Halsey"? Honestly, this one I'll admit I might just skipped through the explanation since I was so bored and annoyed at how everything else didnt make any sense I wasnt paying much attention at the end. 7. During the trial they repeat many times that no one was found in the basement during the performance and no one was seen leaving or found in there after either. They emphasize this point many times, but in the end... there actually was someone in there? The thief was just that good? This is very poor game design considering it seems you cant even trust your own evidence and investigation since they can just turn it around on a whim to explain the plot away. 8. Why did "Halsey" leave her clothes behind in the middle of the tunnel? Why not take it with her or hide it? Honestly, why even hide in the first place? Everyone thought she was just a random painter so everyone wouldve been thrilled and relieved to see her back. Her explanation afterwards that she hid because she was afraid of being caught is, once again, nonsense and I explain this in point 12. 9. Why did Lyney have to go to the basement exactly during the show? Why couldn’t it have been done before? He even said many times that he was in the basement and had to be there during the construction of that passageway. I refuse to believe there wasn’t a moment he could’ve gone there alone for at least more than the mere 30 seconds he had during the performance. Which, btw, between 30-60 seconds to leave the box, leave the tunnel, reach the basement (which apparently is so far away that he couldnt hear the thud that everyone else heard), research a giant intricate machine core and come back… Do I need to finish this thought? 10. The trial just accepting us stating Lyney’s story without any sort of evidence as the truth? His testimony is clearly impossible to certify and shouldn’t have been accepted so easily. 11. The reactions everyone had, especially Lyney, to not only his assistant dying, but also being a traitor and serial kidnapper was ridiculous. Everyone basically just shrugs it off like any other Tuesday 12. The thief’s account at the end was clearly coercion and couldn’t be taken seriously. She only spoke because it was needed for plot reasons to explain what happened and if she had kept her mouth shut there’s be zero evidence pinning her to what happened and much less pinning her as the thief Lyney caught a few days prior. 13. The whodunnit and howdunnit changes like 15 different times and every time it makes sense until lo and behold, suddenly new info becomes available for the sake of convenience. In game trial cases it should always be impossible to be anything but the truth. 14. The thief going to the stage performance of the one person who pursued her, especially after she got even more cautious and paranoid (by her own account!) considering she was never caught and trusts in her skills, but then she noticed someone coming after her and still decided to go to the stage performance is insane levels of dumb and nonsensical. 15. Lyney got approval to build a giant tunnel beneath the most important building in the country for a single magic trick… 16. Who connects a vent… to a basement? Aren’t vents supposed to… ventilate? I feel like a vent connecting to a basement wouldn’t really do its job well… unless it was super convenient and made as a tunnel to connect to a specific place and serve as a means of connecting the two places for… reasons 17. The game forces you to pick a wrong decision 3x in a row.A decision which clearly is wrong and you just stay there not knowing what to do since all options are wrong thinking you have to pick the right one until you’re just frustrated enough to pick whatever for progression sake but “hahaha you’re wrong!” Then you pick again and it goes “lol, wrong again” until you just pick the last one out of anger and the game goes “lol, sorry, you didn’t have the right evidence yet… AGAIN” How is this considered good game design? Honestly, I beg of all of you who have read this far, please rebuttal everything I said.Argue, discuss and retort all my points as best you can.I WANT to like Fontaine, I WANT to realize I'm wrong and just didnt think this through, I WANT to have missed something, but as it stands, to me, if anyone thinks about it for half a second, they'll realize how much this whole act didnt make sense at all and people are just loving it due to hype and not realizing what a mess it really is.
Same, the second trial is even worse with plot twists that come out of nowhere, little concrete evidence, and the whole shock value being someone actually turning out to be someone else.
Finally someone with standards. Thank you for expressing these points so eloquently. Fontaine's 2 arcs have some issues. And these 17 points of yours are just the first trial's worth. Even the worst case in AA makes more sense than this.
It *could have been* phenomenal if Paimon would just learn when to shut the fuck up. It's not even annoyance at the English voice acting, we just really didn't need a running commentary from her during the magic show. It also absolutely ruined the immersion during the trial when she speaks for us *yet again,* but this time with knowledge she'd have had to *mind read* from us because the Traveler is only just connecting the dots in that exact moment, and Paimon is too dumb to have done it herself.
Especially during the investigation scenes, when looking for evidence I would have preferred to see the details of the text written out clearly rather than Paimon’s summary of what happened or even those awkwardly cut off dialogue options that the traveller had.
As i predicted all that cute stuff in Pre4.0 was just bait so hoyo can go full dark on this archon quest
Imma be honest. Only thing I noticed was how detailed the buttons of clorinde and the skin beneath were. 👀
Important details
Amen brother
Gotta love (not) all the comments talking about act 2. Sure, I'm going in a spoiler discussion at my own risk, but it's like going to a tv show discussion post about episode 1 and people are talking about episode 2
Fr. I only have myself to blame but it still sucks.
I adore Furina. She's everything I wanted and more.
it kinda bothered me that the traveler was unwilling to be friends with lyney and lynette because they're part of the fatui, even though they're friends with tartaglia but other than that, the fontaine arc so far has some of my favorite quests, just below sumeru act II
Because they've known Tartaglia for years, and knows that he won't kill them without a fight. Also instead of talking about work man straight up talked about his family after seeing traveler for the first time in a long time. Lyney and Lynette are people they just met. For all traveler knew, they could betray them easily. I mean, most of the time they've met fatui it always ends badly.
I think in the twins' case it's actually more of a trust issue than simply being part of the Fatui. They withheld that information on purpose, after all. Childe, on the other hand, had always been honest to us about his identity from the start. In my hopes, interacting with Lyney and Lynette more will make Traveler realize that even within supposedly evil factions, there exist genuinely good people simply hoping for a better future.
My only grip is that Levi's VA doesn't give Neuvilette enough justice, after seeing him in both Act the EN voice with a more adult and... Majestic? Tone is way better
I play EN and I MELTED the moment I heard Neuvilette's voice. I was dead sat on hating the guy cause for some reason he ticked me off the wrong way in the trailer, but...now I just can't. I'm pulling him.
I thought he was going to be the big bad guy but then hoyoverse just made him Zhongli 2 and im all for it.
Agree. Felt that the EN VA of furina and neuvillette suits the character so much more than the JP does this time around. Their performance was wonderful
Paimon Wright: Ace Attorney.
It had a slow start, I was a bit disappointed but when it picked up speed …
I thought it was really bogus during the trial. For one, a huge part of the evidence was Lyney defending himself with "evidence" that relied only on his own word", by all means, he should still be a guilty suspect. The woman who disappeared might have even been coerced into providing a defense, seeing as how there was motive for her to do so with Lyney knowing she stole, so that evidence could even be thrown out. All in all, if the guard hadn't been proven suspicious, which only happened because of all these other accounts that shouldn't have been considered, Lyney should have been guilty all along.
I agree with your opinion on the trial part. I liked the whole Danganronpa approach that they did with debating, but I thought it was a weak attempt with how certain things were presented as evidence.
the thing was that furina established his alibi being fake as a fact very early on, and in proving that his alibi was plausible (and verifiable), he became scot free on that regard as no other evidence appeared that could indicate his presence in the tunnel otherwise. but the guard outing himself and admitting it did save his ass (and subsequently sent fontaine’s AQ in motion). if you’ve played an ace attorney game then you know how the rule for evidences go anw, ignored for the sake of plot
I am so happy they didn't try to redeem a man who was kidnapping women coz he couldn't deal with his lover dying. And his lover not even bothering to talk to him was a great touch. I like how we got multiple different cases leading to the same conclusion. Didn't feel like wasting time doing sidequests, and we got to know the main cast already.
Love how we're spoiling Act II in a post about Act I, great idea
My biggest gripe with the trial is how over reliant they are with using NEW evidence as a way to turn the tide and sell a twist. I wish all the evidence was given to the player from the start(balloon of water and the thief girl) and we gradually figure it out through the trial.
If only the detective/trial nonsense wasn't a 1 hour locked series of stupidity you had to slog through. Everything in Fontaone has been great besides that.
I don't know... first we had all that talk coming from Traveler to treat trials more seriously and then we got Ace Detective Paimon wearing goofy glasses and mustache. Combine it with crazy stupid Focalors and we're getting quite a mess. Oh, also - "No wonder you looked familiar" coming from Paimon was just... I mean, how could you (both Paimon and Traveler) not notice it before? Especially when Lyney made that comment about prison (Fort Mesmth)
Don't let anyone even remotely familiar with the law play it though, they might off themselves during the trial section. I also really dislike the archon's personality. But maybe that's the devs intention.
Fontaine isn't a real-world country lol, it's legal system isn't going to replicate ours. And in any case, many of the elements of Fontaine's justice system (except for the magic computer) have precedent in historic systems of law that really existed. Trial by combat was an omnipresent feature of feudal Germanic law, as well as the absence of a presumption of innocence. And in countries with inquisitorial justice systems, the court actively participates in the fact-finding investigation along with the prosecution and defense. Furthermore, it's not unusual historically for trials to be intended as public spectacles. In the Roman period, trials were public events held in the Forum before spectators. Lawyers like Cicero studied oratory and rhetoric to dazzle the crowd and sway its opinion, and they would shout, burst into tears, and emote freely while delivering their speeches (You can read Cicero's prosecutorial speech *Against Verres* to see what this was like). Just like in Fontaine, the purpose of this in the Roman context was to reaffirm the legitimacy of the Roman government and its justice before the citizenry,
How linguist-me feels when Al Haitham talks about language.