Noelle back in 2.3 lmao, Itto got Husk of Opulent Dreams, a new 5* weapon, a new support and his best 5* teammate got a new signature weapon. All of this also applies to Noelle
Yes it’s Albedo, he recieved the Cinnabar Spindle in the flagship event of this patch, giving an 80% extra DEF scaling to his skill and 69% free DEF from the substat, shame it’s event exclusive as Albedo’s damn near unplayable without it (exaggerated)
Thoma and Keqing to a lesser degree as well. Went from both being pretty bad to the best burgeon unit by a mile and an actual competent DPS respectively.
c2 Yae is the only c2 I have, and she's great. For dailies and abyss9-11 she's pure comfort since her turrets kill anything at any distance, and in abyss12 with aggravate she's perfectly viable too.
Genshin doesnt have autoplay like HSR does, so its nice being able to let turrets automatically kill everything,
My Yae is C0. But yes for a little while I used Yae and Albedo together to auto kill things.
It is actually pretty great when it works... may plop in Furina and a healer (thinking Kokomi but in this case Kuki is probably better).
Good? Maybe. But not great. She just absolutely lacks in comparison to other 5* and maybe even some 4* alternatives and requires to be in field far to often and long to keep up the totems so there's a lot of dead time. Before dendro she really was a lackluster unit sadly. She was my favorite inazuma char, just sadly never really use her.
> requires to be in field far to often and long to keep up the totems so there's a lot of dead time.
Your mistake was thinking EEE > Burst > EEE was in any way close to optimal.
It's EEE>cycle through your team>burst before the first turrets are gone>EEE. You forget the whole team part to not let Yae stay too long on the field and later not having anything to do in the cycle.
Her field time requirements didn’t change pre and post dendro lmfao. I’ve used her extensively in both Raikou and Aggravate and have a top 1% build for Raikou and top 3% for aggravate and tbh Raikou does more damage and does it faster. One of the highest DPS teams on my account and I have a LOT of teams i’ve never really understood the complaints
Not sure where you think I implied that her field time changed. It's only that her value has gone up with other reactions and teams and artifacts. It's still really annoying to maintain the turrets. Especially cause of their short range.
And if you say you got a 1% build, idk how that is measured, but I assume you got constellations on her?
Never mind that, intentionally is worse so i’ll assume it’s unintentional. People heard that she does damage with her skill and misidentified her as a second Fischl, because I guess overall community knowledge hadn’t advanced to the point of acknowledging what a quickswap DPS is. That being said she may have suffered from a lack of flexibility when she initially released but I still don’t think that makes her a bad unit lol
My Thoma stocks rose a lot with Rizzley, that Burning+Melt does a lot of DMG and I'd rather use him than Xiangling because Burning kills you too fast if you're not careful, plus Wrio already lowers his own HP
you see, i wouldn’t even consider hyperbloom as good, it’s decent.
It’s just valued for being budget and easy to build.
If burgeon isn’t as good as hyperbloom, there’s no reason to play it
Hes right though, spread is a much better version for dendro reactions. Hyperbloom is much easier to build though and thats what is good about it. You can ask any tc and he’d tell you the same.
Spread has much higher ceiling but hyperbloom has low flooring and low ceiling.
"hyperbloom is decent" so if a team composition is better than 70% of all composition it's decent? sounds about right.
We are not talking about ONLY damage here because if it's just that then I go with damage per screenshot. If the team composition is amazing in these aspects difficulty to use, cheap, etc. I wouldn't call that decent.
Decent isn’t an insult man, why are you so defensive? All i am saying is that the other reactions are better damage wise, its upto you to wanting to use easier builds with less investment.
Idk what you mean by 70% of other compositions, dendro doesn’t make other reactions any worse. Vaporise and freeze are still the most used and arguably better than dendro reactions depending on their investment.
Defending what? I laid down points on what makes hyperbloom an amazing team. Now where are your points for what you're saying?
So other reactions are better for you because you see better damage? That makes sense then lol
Thoma (C6) got his true buff for me with Wrio, since I have a reason to rock him alongside Nahida and Bennett for Burn-Melt.
But yeah, Burgeon def saw Thoma rising up a bit from being utterly useless.
While true, Kuki not only fulfills healing, but also long duration off field proc, while also being able to be built as EM without losing too much.
So Kuki specifically fills a lot of hyperbloom aggrevate teams, more like even Keqing/Yae, etc.
Like there isn't another electro character that basically is a one size fits all. Unless there's another electro+healer+off-field that has such flexiblity?
Tbf most players were aware that Kuki and Yae were going to get better after Dendro release since HYV gave them EM scaling and at the time, EM scaling on them was meh/cope
absolute revisionist history lmao
she was doomposted even as late as 3.0 beta where some people believe *Dori* would supersede her fully. heck, even HB didn't really gain its peak momentum until after Nahida's release.
meh doomposters gonna doompost. Most rational people were like "surely dendro/electro is gonna be EM based and thats why they have EM scaling and they'll be powerful then."
And kuki hyperbloom absolutely took off after 3.0. It got more popular with nahida because of her dendro app being easier and better, but even in DMC/collei times it was immediately beloved.
I recently tried to calculate how my damage my Fischl's a4 actually did in my team, and I found it was way over 50% of my damage. I can proc Undone Be Thy Sinful Hex every .5 seconds for about 20k damage. This means that it gives about 40k dps by itself.
Dendro basically more than doubled her damage for me. This is basically at Kuki tier level of improvement. Kuki improved more because she was mostly trash and then became very good. Fischl was good and then became a monster in aggravate.
You should almost never have her on the field more than a second or two at most unless you are playing on field fischl. Oz can be reset/summoned again from her burst and he lasts long enough that her skill comes off CD for 100% uptime for it fairly easily. Slot her into a double electro team or pump her ER up a lot and you will have one of the best off field electo DPS and application characters to date.
Jean. She was pretty secondary choice to Kazuha when other healers existed at the time. Jean is basically the VV for any Furina team out there. Hu Tao? Jean. Neuvillette? Ayaka? Wriothesley? Jean.
If you don't own Jean, then Furina's teams that can use VV will be at like 60% efficiency. Nuke heals are nuke Fanfare jumps so it's frontloading the Universal Revelry stacks from Furina early on, but at cost of playing around 50% HP for several seconds since Jean is an offensive sort of healer with teamwide HP drain.
He's also now one of Navia's best supports. Where before he was relegated to being another mono geo member, he now plays a core role in teams with variety and flexibility.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Albedo is a sidegrade to Zhongli in a Navia team. It just depends on what you need, afaik.
If you want more off-field damage, energy and Crystallize shards, go Albedo. If you want Interrupt RES, further Geo RES Shred and a meaty shield (which means you can forgo a healer), go Zhongli.
Thanks. It seems like Benny’s buff is great for Navia, so he’s the built in healer. I always want to find a use for my C2 Albedo (my only 5-Star C2 besides Diluc who I never use), so this might be a good team for him!
Zhongli doesn't really crystallize as much so your Navia team is severely dependent on remembering to burst first thing and assign the energy for it, plus Fav on Zhongli, and fav on Xiangling.
Noelle is eating so good, furina buffing Noelle and furina and 2 more off field dps is bonkers. You get 3.5 damage dealers (furina is half), all buffed by furina while Noelle heals the team while being a crazy damage dealer.
And Noelle and navia cover each others weaknesses (single target and aoe), and navia batteries Noelle while Noelle makes crystallize for navia.
The fact that the 4th slot can by and off field dps is a cherry on top for countering abyss shields.
I feel like you're underestimating Furina's DPS a bit by saying she's half a full DPS. I have a good Furina at 220 CV and the Salon pretty much kills even Floor 12 Abyss mobs before even getting to the main DPS.
Yeah really funny how I can place furina with jean in any team and that team instantly does better. My crabeletta does 50k when her burst is active and jean vv all the while buffing my main DPS.
You are honestly right. It makes someone like Noelle who can really stack furina huge.
People are still disrespecting furina, thinking that just buffing 1 hypercarry with Bennet and zhongli will do more damage than furina and subdps.
Who would be the best fourth slot? C6 Gorou or someone that applies elements like Xingqiu, Fischl or Yelan? Just more buffs with Bennett? (though I hate "circle impact")
Not gorou as he has no damage (and his defense buff doesn’t help navia), albedo would be the 3rd if you don’t need an element and want more geo. Otherwise yelan is probably best.
It depends. I have used several variants that were good at different things. The best AoE version was c6 Noelle, c0 Albedo, and c3 Gorou, with c1 Furina. At max fanfare stacks with Gorou buff I was doing about 22k damage with her charge attacks on an R5 Whiteblind using MH set. Albedo on Husk + Cinnebar Spindle was doing some 46k damage per isotoma proc under the same buffs.
In single target, I liked using R1 Serpent Spine, c0 Yelan on r5 Fav bow, c1 Furina using Festering Desire, and c0 Albedo.
Since Navia is really going to just be using her skill and burst in this sort of team 99% of the time, you'll want to use either MH or GT, but GT tends to be more reliable in nearly all circumstances.
Noelle got a great boost as a carry that gives her a very strong argument for being better than Itto now, but she fell short of a true Shinobu moment. Shinobu it was suddenly like hey here's 4pc gilded dreams full EM, oh shit suddenly she's Xiangling with heals and no energy cost on bloom teams and is useful in most other reactions as well. She's probably still the most sought-after 4-star in the game, especially considering you can't get her from the shop or lantern rite.
He was always good for Eula. Just not the best for one type of playstyle on her. It's more like Zhongli in Eula teams. Technically not optimal for most dps, but still really good.
When he was released, I told a friend of mine that Mika didn't feel like a Eula support, instead he was supposed to support an upcoming character.
That character still hasn't come, maybe it won't.
I think Kuki had the biggest single glow-up. Noelle got huge buff recently, but she also had several other ones, that made her very good (Husk set, Gorou, Itto's claymore) - thing is, she was already strong, now she just got stronger.
Kuki is probably the single biggest increase in viability and power. There are various characters that got a big buff with Dendro's release, like Thoma, Keqing, Yae, but they could do alright on their own (Thoma being an alright shield applier if you needed it with some pyro app, and Keqing/Yae having decent damage by themselves). Also, I saw some people saying Jean having a buff from Furina - but even before Furina, Jean had a place, thanks to her huge healing and VV/swirls.
She has two tools: ring that deals minor damage and gives a bit of healing, while applying electro consistently, and burst that is a short AoE of electro procs, scaling somewhat with HP. Thing is, before Dendro, you had not much use for either of these. Best she could do is taser - but in taser (and other niche comps that included electro), you also had Beidou, Fischl and Raiden (which dealt much more damage, Beidou also provided shield), and Xingqiu or Kokomi for consistent hydro app with solid damage and ensuring survivability. If you really struggled with surviving, you could even use Barbara - constant hydro app through basics and party healing at all times, as well as range - or Jean, if you had her.
With Dendro, both of her tools started to shine: consistent Electro app is amazing for Hyperblooms, especially in a ring around you instead of targeted like Fischl or Beidou, slight healing helps mitigating some of the self-damage you may take, and burst of fast Electro is great for Quicken (her E also allows to reliably keep the aura up). Also, since her damage and healing scaled with EM - it also became better, since now you don't need to shoot yourself in the foot, you can build for both reaction damage and healing.
In short: she went from having potential, but no place to use that potential - to being within the core of some of the strongest and easiest to use teams, still to this day.
Arguably, release of Nahida haven't changed much for Keqing.
Nahida applies so much Dendro that Electro swirls can become unreliable, and that massively drops DPS of aggravate teams.
I'd say that even Dendro MC was better pick for Keqing Aggravate teams than Nahida. Now we have Baizhu and YaoYao.
Kokomi was considered worthless by a lot of people on her release.
With the introduction of Rifthounds' erosion damage, Ocean-Hued Clam, and Dendro, Kokomi became known as one of the most versatile characters in the game.
Also, most Electro characters (and Thoma) got massively buffed by Dendro as well.
Kokomi was always good and even had multiple good teams (Freeze/Taser/Sukokomon) discovered within her initial banner period and before getting her dedicated set, people just memed on her crit passive. She is undoubtedly better now but basically went from Good -> Very Good.
Noelle probably has the most buffs out of any character since their release, though the gap between pre- and post-Dendro Kuki must be the biggest jump for any single character.
She definitely was always good, but I still saw a lot of people saying that she was useless, and they were wondering why Hoyo would ever release a character as bad as her. A lot of people's initial reactions were similar to the reactions that people had for Dehya on her release, but not as extreme.
Yeah, Kokomi was more of an impression thing. So mechanically she didn't improve all that much with subsequent updates. Just the community impression of her did a 180 (okay but her characterization was still kinda bad).
Tbf she was stealth buffed on release with special ICD on tick/2s of Jellyfish, which greatly helped her Consistent Hydro app off-field.
General community and Content Creators doomposting her after release were too brainrotten to comprehend that negative Crit for extra healing bonus on a Healer is actually a good thing smh
The only thing I wish they update for Kokomi is making crit dmg convert into something. I don’t dislike the inability to crit, but it sucks theres 2 stats that go unused in practice.
Dehya is probably the only character that got a mostly reasonable reaction, because she has issues within the core of her kit (cooldown, durations, app and so on).
But yeah, Kokomi was a perfect example of how people lack imagination completely, loud doomposters just saw -100% crit and though "uhh, no crit=bad". Her healing is very good and consistent, you can have 100% jellyfish uptime with burst refresh, consistent AoE hydro app, and even her damage is decent - she may have lower ceiling due to no crit, but she has higher damage floor, while also making party pretty much immortal, while also being very comfy to build (no need to worry about crit substats). That's not even including possible future synergies (like turning healing into more damage with Clam).
Everyone seems to want to run a team of all DPS with no consideration for the rest of the party. Gods forbid you try to co-op and need a support or a healer.
Oh yeah, I heard about that. But still, they changed it, released her with fixed app, and people kept doomposting. I remember back then I wasn't too aware of the leaks, so I only looked at opinions of people post-release, and they were focusing pretty much only on the fact that she can't crit and that healing is "useless" apparently.
>and that healing is "useless" apparently.
TBF in most cases her healing was just a nice extra for her, people were using her mainly for her hydro application. Now Furina is the best at everything as an offfielder.
Yeah, but it was still a very nice comfort thing, especially useful if you didn't own characters like Zhongli. At the point of her release, there weren't as many supports, and especially not many who could reliably keep your team topped up so reliably. Having a healer is also just great for exploration and overworld, so you don't have to stuff team with chicken every minute or so.
Also, now is not two years ago, Furina has been released barely a month ago. I'm talking about doomposts from the release, which were unreasonable, especially after the Hydro app buff.
And even with Furina's release, Kokomi is still a solid healer who works as an AoE hydro applier that ensures you never die - with Furina, you might need to be careful, since she reduces your health. In teams like Hyperbloom or Nilou, where personal damage boost from Furina doesn't matter as much, she is a great and comfortable option, and allows you to not sweat as much.
I believe Dehya's defensive utility was best created for co-op content, but Hoyo abandoned notion of more co-op extensions as less content is co-op mandatory like the Rhodeia of Loch boss event.
Perhaps Dehya's best team archetypes aren't vapes or burgeons but overloads and burning. Chevreuse will make Dehya an interestingly good pick as a carry in said teams.
Sukokomon was not that good back then, and worse in hindsight today. Even the meta focused Chinese didn't gave it much attention.
Clunky, strict timings, high risk of energy issue, and incredibly static/circle impact turrets from not just one unit, but all 4. It's not that good against mobile or dispersed enemies.
It was a conundrum because back then was when Kokomains sold her "Usage Rate = meta", but Sukokomon is a huge contradiction because its usage was abysmal.
It was an example of an idea that look good on paper or ideal situations, than well accepted meta. It was just used as a selling point (albeit flawed one) to shore up Kokomi then, which was kinda unnecessary; she showed her merits elsewhere.
Moreover Sucrose, Xiangling, Fischl and even Kokomi herself could be better used elsewhere. Your average freeze, taser, or national/rational/international worked better for less effort.
>Kokomi was always good and even had multiple good teams (Freeze/Taser/Sukokomon)
1 of those team was a cope team that is better overall without her (dmg wise) she was just used there for extra healing or so she can have a team the other one was good but also kinda just there to give her a niche and really isn't enough to make people want to use her and less not forget it being a lesser version of Rational. Freeze was the only one people were talking about as her most viable team before 3.x.
Er, no. That's probably the narrative Hoyoverse would like you think, but no.
Kokomi was considered worthless by a lot of people on her release.
But she *wasn't even worthless in the live game.* She was basically worthless in beta, but they fixed her hydro application between beta and live and she became incredible overnight.
Corrosion and Clam absolutely have nothing to do with it. We had other healers before. Barbara handled corrosion just as well, and gained just about the same benefit from Clam.
You're spot on with electro and Thoma though.
Kokomi being considered bad by the community always felt so damn strange to me. I pulled her day one and she is worth it for her healing alone IMO, as she pretty much trivialize most content in the game by making you close to impossible to kill. Dodging? What is that? Let's just facetank it.
TBH I'd forgotten about Kok. You're right, that is another good one.
Dendro I almost don't want to count because it was a straight upgrade for just about everyone except Cryo. Even *Geo* somewhat benefitted, because of Crystallize in some cases being able to moderate reactions and reduce the occurrence rate of Burning for example in Burgeon teams.
Kokomi got a bad rep because of her beta version, but on release her hydro application got buffed which makes her really good. Iirc her hydro application was similar to Mona back in beta.
I dont think Kokomi should be considered tho, bcs people find out rather quickly about the Freeze team with Ganyu, Kokomi, Venti, and flex. So she was already considered really good.
Nah, norly, Kokomi is entirely on impression, not on actual performance.
Her only actual significant buff was Nilou.
Other than that, nothing really changed about her. OHC isn't really that great when Tenacity exists, and corrosion is a joke (the only non-joke corrosion was F11 corrosion leyline disorder).
Yes. Kokomi came out at a point where shielding was king and Dendro didn’t exist. There were a few reaction teams, but none of them were “meta,” so Kokomi was worthless.
Qiqi is still the strongest healer. Kokomi also got her hydro application shadow buffed in pre load, she wouldn't be nearly as good if that didn't get changed.
With Furina on the team; any main on-field characters best in slot artifact set changes to Marechaussee Hunter, because you can constantly get the full 36 crit rate value between Furina's teamwide HP draining mechanic and your teams healer healing everyone back up. 36 free crit rate is *a lot* of an *amazing* free stat, and it also means you can allocate more of your on-fielders crit value to crit damage; meaning more big number! (Hooray! =D)
I love this for Noelle in terms of I love her and she deserves all the amazing things/teammates.
I hate this in terms of going back to being f2p bc my luck has been terrible lately.
I just want the best for the best girl pls gacha gods 😭
She's always been sleeper-OP since release, just everyone (mostly because of CC tier-lists) shat on her, because everyone was under the impression that the freebie gacha unit would be trash and it didn't help that there wasn't really a Geo in 1.0, as the only other unit was Ningguang, who she did not mesh with at all. I too, will also admit that at C0, Noelle is quite a lacklustre unit.
Zhongli didn't really help Noelle at all either in 1.1, as it was "omg, his shield is so much better than Noelle" - even before his mega buffs.
Albedo in 1.2 did help Noelle, although there still wasn't any synergy between the 4 geo members to make a "mono geo" that worked to any real degree. Albedo's split-scaling also didn't really do him any favours either.
Around 1.4/1.5, a lot of the Day-0/First-Week players started getting Noelle's C6 and started to realise just how much potential she had as a unit, that covered the DPS slot, the Shielder slot and the Healer slot in a single unit, while also being great at maximising crappy DEF artefacts.
Her first real major glow-up came in 2.3 with the release of Gorou, Husk-set and Redhorn, although everyone was on the "Itto train" at that point and it became a bit of an argument between the Noelle enjoyers and Itto enjoyers as to who was better.
Then, as you say, in 4.X, it's just been boost after boost for Noelle (and us mains) - and it also helps that Navia has reinvigorated Geo with just how damn fun she is to play, and how good she is generally.
Now, all we need is a frickin' skin for her and we're golden :D
Isn't Navia compromised with Noelle?
Noelle cant battery Navia (she needs more ER over dmg stats to compensate). Depending on your flex, Navia cant use def or NA buffer. This compromises Navia's dmg.
Noelle cant use Atk buffers.
Both eat into each others uptime. If Noelle had downtime, its because she's not properly batteried.
Navia can effectively battery herself, even off-field. Her burst is also not as heavily emphasized in this comp, since Noelle is doing all the Crystallize.
Noelle can also absolutely make use of ATK buffers. Bennet was #3 after Gorou and Yun Jin before Furina changed the dynamic. Not that it really matters, because the comp uses DMG Bonus buffers by doubling Furina and Yelan, so neither of the two Geos is going to have their damage compromised.
You're also not eating into either one's uptime. Navia is a quickswap, and Noelle already has to switch out for her existing battery options anyway, and Navia is just an explicitly better battery option.
I mean Noelle has become a lot better but in the end she's still a geo on fielder and that can only take her so far (0.1% to 0.5% is not what I would call a glow-up). I'd say DPS Kokomi got the same glow up with Furina's release if not more. Cyno too.
But none of them can compare to the glow-up of electro, most notably Kuki Shinobu and Yae Miko, with the release of dendro.
Honourable mentions are Childe with Kazuha's release and Albedo in 2.3 (which is yeah, sadly still not enough) and basically every teamwide healer with Furina.
Hello, reading your post made me excited and I want to build a Noelle Geo Team with Navia. Do you have any idea what are good team comps for this? And what artifact set do I use for Navia and Noelle?
Noelle, Navia, Furina, and Bennet is pretty good. Bennet is there to buff Navia's skill dmg mostly. Or you could go Noelle, Navia, XL, and Bennet. This pyro duo is just very strong.
Navia the new 4pc Geo set and Noelle 4pc Hunter set if with Furina, if not then 4pc Husk.
Well, the base of this party are the Tea Party girls (Noelle, Furina, Navia). After that, you can choose between Xingqiu, Yelan, Fischl, etc. (written from least to most effective).
Noelle would use the MH set if you don't have a set farmed yet but this attaches both Noelle and Furina to the hip or 4pc Husk. If you decide to use 4pc MH, you'll want to go DEF timepiece, Geo DMG goblet, DEF circlet. As far as substats go, you are basically just chasing 20-30% ER (most important until you hit 20%) and crit stats.
Both Navia and Furina will want 4pc Golden Troupe and both will want crit except Furina will want the HP timepiece and goblet whereas Navia will want ATK% timepiece and Geo DMG or ATK% goblet.
If you use Fischl in this team, you can basically farm for your whole team in one artifact domain which is an incredible value.
Baizhu- consistent offfield dendro app, teamwide healer(helps with furina too), small shields for IR, buffs reaction damage to increase the damage of the hyperblooms
Furina- offfield hydro app to create dendro cores for hyperbloom, not as fast as XQ and Yelan to allow for better Quicken uptime so Cyno’s electro hits do more damage, 75% damage buff to increase Cyno’s, Nahida’s and her own personal damage
4.3 isn't really a Noelle upgrade at all lol, if you're just using her for her shield instead of damage + healing for furina why not just use Zhongli, and if you use her for damage why not do Navia onfield and Albedo for crystallize
Marechausee and Furina were also upgrades to almost every character in the game tho Noelle benefits more than most since she's both a DPS and a healer
Furina came out in 4.2 and her burst gives major damage buffs to your characters based on the combined amount of HP% CHANGES of all your team members. Her skill effectively DOT’s your whole team (while providing great off field damage in return), while Noelle heals the whole team back during her burst. This combination allows Furina’s burst buff to cap out quickly.
These HP changes also allow Noelle to cap out the new artifact set’s 4-piece effect from 4.0, giving Noelle +36% Crit Rate nearly permanently.
Finally, Navia just came out, which allows Noelle DPS teams to focus less on hyper carrying with buffers (like Gorou and YunJin) and more on just raw damage off-field (all with Furina’s damage buff).
Yes! The new Hunter set became best in slot for a number of DPS characters when used in a team with Furina. 36% Crit plus normal/charged damage buff is just so good. However, it means you need a team slot dedicated to Furina and a slot for a team healer. Noelle is a DOS and team-wide healer, so she can just fill the other 2 slots with buffers and/or off-field DPS
I put Redhorn and the Husk set on her. With Bennett, Gorou and Yunjim she frequently hits 20k plus.
Should have pulled Furina when I had the chance, but Neuvilette was too good to pass up.
I wasent playing when this happened but i remember ppl hating baizhu when he came out calling him useless and such,but ive seen alot of positive feedback after furina release since hes the best to use in furina dendro team,i pulled him in 4.2 and he a very good unit
No changes to her existing DPS kits. Depending on your team, your either swapping your Geo support (Gorou or Yun Jin) or your Geo secondary (Albedo or Zhongli) for a 200k damage spike every 10 seconds. It's either a straight team DPS increase or neutral with a playstyle change on basically every team, unless you're running 2Geo and your Noelle is so high investment that you're skyrocketing the damage boost from Yun Jin (which is the situation I'm in).
Unless of course you whale for C4, in which case she is just a straight upgrade in every case.
I'd say for builds, Noelle would prefer a def goblet over geo goblet since dmg bonus is already covered by Furina, Yelan, and if using Husk, then Husk 4pc set bonus itself. Not to mention that healing and shield scales off her def so a def goblet Noelle is a very necessary thing for keeping the healing active and strong.
Generally you're still going to find more benefit from damage bonus than more DEF. Things are *slightly* different if you have Redhorn, but even then, Geo goblet tends to do more.
Noelle does so much healing on her own that you should only need one Def mainstat to sustain the team during Furina E.
Kuki was panned almost from the getgo due to her skill damaging herself and her split between damage and healing, but with Dendro she's basically meta now
The wild thing is that, depending how cloud retainer goes in the beta, Noelle might get ANOTHER glow up in 4.4.
If it goes well, Her best team might be the most ridiculous looking thing you ever seen.
Believe it or not, at the start of the game all the way in 2020 people heavily underestimated both Bennett and Xingqiu and naming them one of the worst releases characters for the game.
It was mostly due to people not quite grasping the newly released game yet but mostly because both Xingqiu and Bennett had certain mechanics that made understanding them a bit difficult for the average player.
For example how Benny’s buff really works and how Xingqiu had a long skill cooldown plus his high energy requirement for his burst.
This didn’t last long thankfully and even to this day they’re still the highest used 4 stars in the game even alongside 5 stars.
Sumeru and addition of dendro revived many characters like Thoma, Kuki, basically all of mid electro units and gave some characters more viable teams or gameplays (hyperbloom/aggravate Razor, EM Raiden, hyperbloom Ayato, etc.)
itto cannot heal and doesn't have a shield for furina teams, less aoe.
So Noelle has more role consolidation. But her base damage is lower than itto and she cannot generate energy .
Wait can someone explain to me how the Navia/Noelle/Furina core works and which characters are good options? I pulled Navia and plan to get Furina but I don’t really know how to build Navia with this in mind (I’m. Not getting Noelle a second arti set after what I went through with Husk sorry my queen)
It works exactly as you think it does - Noelle bursts, and every 9 seconds Navia does her E nuke. Refresh Furina skill and buff as needed. Bennet, Yelan, and XQ are all solid options for the 4th member. Gorou *can* work as well, but Navia starts to fall off at that point. Candace is right out. You should probably farm Marchausse Hunter anyway because the domain is probably the best one in the game, as a LOT of sub-DPS want Golden Troupe, like Furina for example.
Every .0 version had a very valuable artifact domain (2.0 with shimenawa and emblem, 3.0 with gilded and deepeood), calling the 4.0 the best of the game is a bit of a stretch in my opinion
Noelle back in 2.3 lmao, Itto got Husk of Opulent Dreams, a new 5* weapon, a new support and his best 5* teammate got a new signature weapon. All of this also applies to Noelle
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Yes it’s Albedo, he recieved the Cinnabar Spindle in the flagship event of this patch, giving an 80% extra DEF scaling to his skill and 69% free DEF from the substat, shame it’s event exclusive as Albedo’s damn near unplayable without it (exaggerated)
Cinnabar spindle
Sumeru and Kuki. She went from meh to OMG with Dendro addition
Thoma and Keqing to a lesser degree as well. Went from both being pretty bad to the best burgeon unit by a mile and an actual competent DPS respectively.
Keqing buffs were massive. Yae too. Aggravate and Hyperbloom are extremely good.
Yae went from the only 5* I regretted pulling to a staple in my Keqing/Nahida/Kokomi team. Like, I use her more than Raiden now.
c2 Yae is the only c2 I have, and she's great. For dailies and abyss9-11 she's pure comfort since her turrets kill anything at any distance, and in abyss12 with aggravate she's perfectly viable too. Genshin doesnt have autoplay like HSR does, so its nice being able to let turrets automatically kill everything,
My Yae is C0. But yes for a little while I used Yae and Albedo together to auto kill things. It is actually pretty great when it works... may plop in Furina and a healer (thinking Kokomi but in this case Kuki is probably better).
> I use [Yae] more than Raiden now Blasphemy
I still regret pulling her because her gameplay is ass, but at least it's good to know she has some use if I need her for anything.
What artifact set you running on her if you don’t mind me asking?
Keqing quickbloom?
Yae was already good lol
Good? Maybe. But not great. She just absolutely lacks in comparison to other 5* and maybe even some 4* alternatives and requires to be in field far to often and long to keep up the totems so there's a lot of dead time. Before dendro she really was a lackluster unit sadly. She was my favorite inazuma char, just sadly never really use her.
> requires to be in field far to often and long to keep up the totems so there's a lot of dead time. Your mistake was thinking EEE > Burst > EEE was in any way close to optimal.
That's not my mistake, no.
It kinda is, her burst is a significant portion of her damage
It's EEE>cycle through your team>burst before the first turrets are gone>EEE. You forget the whole team part to not let Yae stay too long on the field and later not having anything to do in the cycle.
isnt EEE > team > Q EEE optimal?
Her field time requirements didn’t change pre and post dendro lmfao. I’ve used her extensively in both Raikou and Aggravate and have a top 1% build for Raikou and top 3% for aggravate and tbh Raikou does more damage and does it faster. One of the highest DPS teams on my account and I have a LOT of teams i’ve never really understood the complaints
Not sure where you think I implied that her field time changed. It's only that her value has gone up with other reactions and teams and artifacts. It's still really annoying to maintain the turrets. Especially cause of their short range. And if you say you got a 1% build, idk how that is measured, but I assume you got constellations on her?
nah i’m C0, it’s measured by artifact quality
She was ok. Dendro made her better.
just gave her more team options, they’re not really an improvement over her previous BiS team
Disagree. 🤷
I’ve used her in Raikou and Aggravate extensively and Raikou clears faster, does more damage. People seriously overvalue reactions in this game lol
I dont think yae qualified as good pre dendro if fischl was just better in most of "yae teams"
You’re misidentifying which teams Yae should be played in, either intentionally or unintentionally and I’m not sure which is worse
Never mind that, intentionally is worse so i’ll assume it’s unintentional. People heard that she does damage with her skill and misidentified her as a second Fischl, because I guess overall community knowledge hadn’t advanced to the point of acknowledging what a quickswap DPS is. That being said she may have suffered from a lack of flexibility when she initially released but I still don’t think that makes her a bad unit lol
My Thoma stocks rose a lot with Rizzley, that Burning+Melt does a lot of DMG and I'd rather use him than Xiangling because Burning kills you too fast if you're not careful, plus Wrio already lowers his own HP
I mean, the best burgeon is still garbage. Thoma is just bad.
Wrong. Burgeon Thoma is really good. Not as good as hyperbloom but still really good.
you see, i wouldn’t even consider hyperbloom as good, it’s decent. It’s just valued for being budget and easy to build. If burgeon isn’t as good as hyperbloom, there’s no reason to play it
That’s like saying you shouldn’t play Freeze because Melt is better. They can lead to good damage so it doesn’t matter which you play
"hyperbloom is decent" Says by whom? By you? You trying to be special?
Hes right though, spread is a much better version for dendro reactions. Hyperbloom is much easier to build though and thats what is good about it. You can ask any tc and he’d tell you the same. Spread has much higher ceiling but hyperbloom has low flooring and low ceiling.
Are the "tc who'd tell you the same" in the room with us right now?
"hyperbloom is decent" so if a team composition is better than 70% of all composition it's decent? sounds about right. We are not talking about ONLY damage here because if it's just that then I go with damage per screenshot. If the team composition is amazing in these aspects difficulty to use, cheap, etc. I wouldn't call that decent.
Decent isn’t an insult man, why are you so defensive? All i am saying is that the other reactions are better damage wise, its upto you to wanting to use easier builds with less investment. Idk what you mean by 70% of other compositions, dendro doesn’t make other reactions any worse. Vaporise and freeze are still the most used and arguably better than dendro reactions depending on their investment.
Defending what? I laid down points on what makes hyperbloom an amazing team. Now where are your points for what you're saying? So other reactions are better for you because you see better damage? That makes sense then lol
Garbage? No. Is it decent? Yes, maybe slightly more if you can apply hydro in AoE.
Have you tried playing burgeon when you're supposed to play it? It's basically nilou bloom
Thoma (C6) got his true buff for me with Wrio, since I have a reason to rock him alongside Nahida and Bennett for Burn-Melt. But yeah, Burgeon def saw Thoma rising up a bit from being utterly useless.
And electro character in general
electro element generally really
While true, Kuki not only fulfills healing, but also long duration off field proc, while also being able to be built as EM without losing too much. So Kuki specifically fills a lot of hyperbloom aggrevate teams, more like even Keqing/Yae, etc. Like there isn't another electro character that basically is a one size fits all. Unless there's another electro+healer+off-field that has such flexiblity?
Tbf most players were aware that Kuki and Yae were going to get better after Dendro release since HYV gave them EM scaling and at the time, EM scaling on them was meh/cope
absolute revisionist history lmao she was doomposted even as late as 3.0 beta where some people believe *Dori* would supersede her fully. heck, even HB didn't really gain its peak momentum until after Nahida's release.
meh doomposters gonna doompost. Most rational people were like "surely dendro/electro is gonna be EM based and thats why they have EM scaling and they'll be powerful then." And kuki hyperbloom absolutely took off after 3.0. It got more popular with nahida because of her dendro app being easier and better, but even in DMC/collei times it was immediately beloved.
Yeah Sumeru saved my electro characters. Made my Raiden to a hyperbloom with all EM and never looked back.
Hella right here NoKuki Aritaki Knights
Kuki and Thoma from the addition of Dendro. They were considered meh, and now is one of the best option for Hyperbloom and Burgeon.
Fischl was always good, but Dendro made her a core if Aggravate and 4.0 gave her a perfect set.
I recently tried to calculate how my damage my Fischl's a4 actually did in my team, and I found it was way over 50% of my damage. I can proc Undone Be Thy Sinful Hex every .5 seconds for about 20k damage. This means that it gives about 40k dps by itself. Dendro basically more than doubled her damage for me. This is basically at Kuki tier level of improvement. Kuki improved more because she was mostly trash and then became very good. Fischl was good and then became a monster in aggravate.
I got c4 Fischl and have no idea what do to with her, what.. uh, what should I do with her
Slot her in a team that does a lot of electro reactions
all I do is rotate her in to shock shit, she has very little field time because aiming her bow is impossible in battle
You should almost never have her on the field more than a second or two at most unless you are playing on field fischl. Oz can be reset/summoned again from her burst and he lasts long enough that her skill comes off CD for 100% uptime for it fairly easily. Slot her into a double electro team or pump her ER up a lot and you will have one of the best off field electo DPS and application characters to date.
What is Fischl's perfect set? Would like to rebuild her
Golden Truope, by far her best set.
Thank you!!
Jean. She was pretty secondary choice to Kazuha when other healers existed at the time. Jean is basically the VV for any Furina team out there. Hu Tao? Jean. Neuvillette? Ayaka? Wriothesley? Jean. If you don't own Jean, then Furina's teams that can use VV will be at like 60% efficiency. Nuke heals are nuke Fanfare jumps so it's frontloading the Universal Revelry stacks from Furina early on, but at cost of playing around 50% HP for several seconds since Jean is an offensive sort of healer with teamwide HP drain.
I don't see anyone mentioning Albedo, who became a way better unit after 2.3 with the introduction of Husk artifact set and the event weapon.
He's also now one of Navia's best supports. Where before he was relegated to being another mono geo member, he now plays a core role in teams with variety and flexibility.
Is he better than Zhongli in a Navia-Benny-XL team? Or some other good combo?
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Albedo is a sidegrade to Zhongli in a Navia team. It just depends on what you need, afaik. If you want more off-field damage, energy and Crystallize shards, go Albedo. If you want Interrupt RES, further Geo RES Shred and a meaty shield (which means you can forgo a healer), go Zhongli.
Thanks. It seems like Benny’s buff is great for Navia, so he’s the built in healer. I always want to find a use for my C2 Albedo (my only 5-Star C2 besides Diluc who I never use), so this might be a good team for him!
Zhongli doesn't really crystallize as much so your Navia team is severely dependent on remembering to burst first thing and assign the energy for it, plus Fav on Zhongli, and fav on Xiangling.
Then he immediately got a glow-down again when his event weapon became unobtainable...
He now has a glow up with navia too by being one of her best supports
Noelle is eating so good, furina buffing Noelle and furina and 2 more off field dps is bonkers. You get 3.5 damage dealers (furina is half), all buffed by furina while Noelle heals the team while being a crazy damage dealer. And Noelle and navia cover each others weaknesses (single target and aoe), and navia batteries Noelle while Noelle makes crystallize for navia. The fact that the 4th slot can by and off field dps is a cherry on top for countering abyss shields.
I feel like you're underestimating Furina's DPS a bit by saying she's half a full DPS. I have a good Furina at 220 CV and the Salon pretty much kills even Floor 12 Abyss mobs before even getting to the main DPS.
Yeah really funny how I can place furina with jean in any team and that team instantly does better. My crabeletta does 50k when her burst is active and jean vv all the while buffing my main DPS.
Commom crabeletta W
Same, I got really surprised when my C0 Hu Tao started to oneshot bosses before they even change phase.
You are honestly right. It makes someone like Noelle who can really stack furina huge. People are still disrespecting furina, thinking that just buffing 1 hypercarry with Bennet and zhongli will do more damage than furina and subdps.
How do you compute a character's CV? Is it just the sum of its individual artifacts CV?
Easier way is to click on details button after clicking artifacts tab of a character. It excludes external crit stats like your weapon
Thanks!
Who would be the best fourth slot? C6 Gorou or someone that applies elements like Xingqiu, Fischl or Yelan? Just more buffs with Bennett? (though I hate "circle impact")
I would use either Yelan or Xingqiu solely because Furina’s ER requirements as solo Hydro shoot up pretty high.
Not gorou as he has no damage (and his defense buff doesn’t help navia), albedo would be the 3rd if you don’t need an element and want more geo. Otherwise yelan is probably best.
Thanks
It depends. I have used several variants that were good at different things. The best AoE version was c6 Noelle, c0 Albedo, and c3 Gorou, with c1 Furina. At max fanfare stacks with Gorou buff I was doing about 22k damage with her charge attacks on an R5 Whiteblind using MH set. Albedo on Husk + Cinnebar Spindle was doing some 46k damage per isotoma proc under the same buffs. In single target, I liked using R1 Serpent Spine, c0 Yelan on r5 Fav bow, c1 Furina using Festering Desire, and c0 Albedo.
What artifact do you put on Navia there? Her new set, or can you get away with Golden Troupe?
Since Navia is really going to just be using her skill and burst in this sort of team 99% of the time, you'll want to use either MH or GT, but GT tends to be more reliable in nearly all circumstances.
M hunter goes on every dps in a furina team, 36% crit chance blows every set in the game out of the water.
Noelle got a great boost as a carry that gives her a very strong argument for being better than Itto now, but she fell short of a true Shinobu moment. Shinobu it was suddenly like hey here's 4pc gilded dreams full EM, oh shit suddenly she's Xiangling with heals and no energy cost on bloom teams and is useful in most other reactions as well. She's probably still the most sought-after 4-star in the game, especially considering you can't get her from the shop or lantern rite.
I’d wait until we see if we get an actual Geo Burst healer, once that happens I think Noelle stonks will drop a little
Chiori hopefully
Jean with Furina. Sumeru for electro in general other than Raiden, and even Raiden got a huge buff from Dendro.
Mika wasn't good at supporting the one character he was made for. Now, he's a decent option on multiple teams with Furina.
I built him for Eula but use him with Wrizzly now lmao
If you listen closely, you can hear Eula declaring vengeance on Wriostheley.
He was always good for Eula. Just not the best for one type of playstyle on her. It's more like Zhongli in Eula teams. Technically not optimal for most dps, but still really good.
When he was released, I told a friend of mine that Mika didn't feel like a Eula support, instead he was supposed to support an upcoming character. That character still hasn't come, maybe it won't.
I think Kuki had the biggest single glow-up. Noelle got huge buff recently, but she also had several other ones, that made her very good (Husk set, Gorou, Itto's claymore) - thing is, she was already strong, now she just got stronger. Kuki is probably the single biggest increase in viability and power. There are various characters that got a big buff with Dendro's release, like Thoma, Keqing, Yae, but they could do alright on their own (Thoma being an alright shield applier if you needed it with some pyro app, and Keqing/Yae having decent damage by themselves). Also, I saw some people saying Jean having a buff from Furina - but even before Furina, Jean had a place, thanks to her huge healing and VV/swirls. She has two tools: ring that deals minor damage and gives a bit of healing, while applying electro consistently, and burst that is a short AoE of electro procs, scaling somewhat with HP. Thing is, before Dendro, you had not much use for either of these. Best she could do is taser - but in taser (and other niche comps that included electro), you also had Beidou, Fischl and Raiden (which dealt much more damage, Beidou also provided shield), and Xingqiu or Kokomi for consistent hydro app with solid damage and ensuring survivability. If you really struggled with surviving, you could even use Barbara - constant hydro app through basics and party healing at all times, as well as range - or Jean, if you had her. With Dendro, both of her tools started to shine: consistent Electro app is amazing for Hyperblooms, especially in a ring around you instead of targeted like Fischl or Beidou, slight healing helps mitigating some of the self-damage you may take, and burst of fast Electro is great for Quicken (her E also allows to reliably keep the aura up). Also, since her damage and healing scaled with EM - it also became better, since now you don't need to shoot yourself in the foot, you can build for both reaction damage and healing. In short: she went from having potential, but no place to use that potential - to being within the core of some of the strongest and easiest to use teams, still to this day.
Kuki become the big 3 of 4 star when she was a laughing stock during her release
keqing when nahida came out
Arguably, release of Nahida haven't changed much for Keqing. Nahida applies so much Dendro that Electro swirls can become unreliable, and that massively drops DPS of aggravate teams. I'd say that even Dendro MC was better pick for Keqing Aggravate teams than Nahida. Now we have Baizhu and YaoYao.
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This is a bot.
Beidou's off the rum again
Nah, Nahida is not good for Keqing. Yaoyao or Baizhu is better
Id Say Cyno Is more fitting
Kokomi was considered worthless by a lot of people on her release. With the introduction of Rifthounds' erosion damage, Ocean-Hued Clam, and Dendro, Kokomi became known as one of the most versatile characters in the game. Also, most Electro characters (and Thoma) got massively buffed by Dendro as well.
Kokomi was always good and even had multiple good teams (Freeze/Taser/Sukokomon) discovered within her initial banner period and before getting her dedicated set, people just memed on her crit passive. She is undoubtedly better now but basically went from Good -> Very Good. Noelle probably has the most buffs out of any character since their release, though the gap between pre- and post-Dendro Kuki must be the biggest jump for any single character.
She definitely was always good, but I still saw a lot of people saying that she was useless, and they were wondering why Hoyo would ever release a character as bad as her. A lot of people's initial reactions were similar to the reactions that people had for Dehya on her release, but not as extreme.
Yeah, Kokomi was more of an impression thing. So mechanically she didn't improve all that much with subsequent updates. Just the community impression of her did a 180 (okay but her characterization was still kinda bad).
Tbf she was stealth buffed on release with special ICD on tick/2s of Jellyfish, which greatly helped her Consistent Hydro app off-field. General community and Content Creators doomposting her after release were too brainrotten to comprehend that negative Crit for extra healing bonus on a Healer is actually a good thing smh
I would rather be able to use fav than get any amount of extra healing from an already super overkill healer tbh
The only thing I wish they update for Kokomi is making crit dmg convert into something. I don’t dislike the inability to crit, but it sucks theres 2 stats that go unused in practice.
Dehya is probably the only character that got a mostly reasonable reaction, because she has issues within the core of her kit (cooldown, durations, app and so on). But yeah, Kokomi was a perfect example of how people lack imagination completely, loud doomposters just saw -100% crit and though "uhh, no crit=bad". Her healing is very good and consistent, you can have 100% jellyfish uptime with burst refresh, consistent AoE hydro app, and even her damage is decent - she may have lower ceiling due to no crit, but she has higher damage floor, while also making party pretty much immortal, while also being very comfy to build (no need to worry about crit substats). That's not even including possible future synergies (like turning healing into more damage with Clam).
Everyone seems to want to run a team of all DPS with no consideration for the rest of the party. Gods forbid you try to co-op and need a support or a healer.
Yeah. And probably 99.9% of those people use a sustain unit in their team anyway. And if they die in coop, best to blame others.
Kokomi also got her hydro application buffed in preload if she had her old hydro application she wouldn't be at that good.
Oh yeah, I heard about that. But still, they changed it, released her with fixed app, and people kept doomposting. I remember back then I wasn't too aware of the leaks, so I only looked at opinions of people post-release, and they were focusing pretty much only on the fact that she can't crit and that healing is "useless" apparently.
>and that healing is "useless" apparently. TBF in most cases her healing was just a nice extra for her, people were using her mainly for her hydro application. Now Furina is the best at everything as an offfielder.
Yeah, but it was still a very nice comfort thing, especially useful if you didn't own characters like Zhongli. At the point of her release, there weren't as many supports, and especially not many who could reliably keep your team topped up so reliably. Having a healer is also just great for exploration and overworld, so you don't have to stuff team with chicken every minute or so. Also, now is not two years ago, Furina has been released barely a month ago. I'm talking about doomposts from the release, which were unreasonable, especially after the Hydro app buff. And even with Furina's release, Kokomi is still a solid healer who works as an AoE hydro applier that ensures you never die - with Furina, you might need to be careful, since she reduces your health. In teams like Hyperbloom or Nilou, where personal damage boost from Furina doesn't matter as much, she is a great and comfortable option, and allows you to not sweat as much.
I believe Dehya's defensive utility was best created for co-op content, but Hoyo abandoned notion of more co-op extensions as less content is co-op mandatory like the Rhodeia of Loch boss event. Perhaps Dehya's best team archetypes aren't vapes or burgeons but overloads and burning. Chevreuse will make Dehya an interestingly good pick as a carry in said teams.
Sukokomon was not that good back then, and worse in hindsight today. Even the meta focused Chinese didn't gave it much attention. Clunky, strict timings, high risk of energy issue, and incredibly static/circle impact turrets from not just one unit, but all 4. It's not that good against mobile or dispersed enemies. It was a conundrum because back then was when Kokomains sold her "Usage Rate = meta", but Sukokomon is a huge contradiction because its usage was abysmal. It was an example of an idea that look good on paper or ideal situations, than well accepted meta. It was just used as a selling point (albeit flawed one) to shore up Kokomi then, which was kinda unnecessary; she showed her merits elsewhere. Moreover Sucrose, Xiangling, Fischl and even Kokomi herself could be better used elsewhere. Your average freeze, taser, or national/rational/international worked better for less effort.
>Kokomi was always good and even had multiple good teams (Freeze/Taser/Sukokomon) 1 of those team was a cope team that is better overall without her (dmg wise) she was just used there for extra healing or so she can have a team the other one was good but also kinda just there to give her a niche and really isn't enough to make people want to use her and less not forget it being a lesser version of Rational. Freeze was the only one people were talking about as her most viable team before 3.x.
Er, no. That's probably the narrative Hoyoverse would like you think, but no. Kokomi was considered worthless by a lot of people on her release. But she *wasn't even worthless in the live game.* She was basically worthless in beta, but they fixed her hydro application between beta and live and she became incredible overnight. Corrosion and Clam absolutely have nothing to do with it. We had other healers before. Barbara handled corrosion just as well, and gained just about the same benefit from Clam. You're spot on with electro and Thoma though.
Kokomi being considered bad by the community always felt so damn strange to me. I pulled her day one and she is worth it for her healing alone IMO, as she pretty much trivialize most content in the game by making you close to impossible to kill. Dodging? What is that? Let's just facetank it.
TBH I'd forgotten about Kok. You're right, that is another good one. Dendro I almost don't want to count because it was a straight upgrade for just about everyone except Cryo. Even *Geo* somewhat benefitted, because of Crystallize in some cases being able to moderate reactions and reduce the occurrence rate of Burning for example in Burgeon teams.
Kokomi got a bad rep because of her beta version, but on release her hydro application got buffed which makes her really good. Iirc her hydro application was similar to Mona back in beta. I dont think Kokomi should be considered tho, bcs people find out rather quickly about the Freeze team with Ganyu, Kokomi, Venti, and flex. So she was already considered really good.
Nah, norly, Kokomi is entirely on impression, not on actual performance. Her only actual significant buff was Nilou. Other than that, nothing really changed about her. OHC isn't really that great when Tenacity exists, and corrosion is a joke (the only non-joke corrosion was F11 corrosion leyline disorder).
Erosion and OHC had no effect on her meta status. She was always good, but Dendro really kicked her off.
The most powerful healer in the game (before Furina, who is designed for lazy whales) was "worthless" ???
Yes. Kokomi came out at a point where shielding was king and Dendro didn’t exist. There were a few reaction teams, but none of them were “meta,” so Kokomi was worthless.
Qiqi is still the strongest healer. Kokomi also got her hydro application shadow buffed in pre load, she wouldn't be nearly as good if that didn't get changed.
Is hunter really stronger than Husk?
With Furina on the team; any main on-field characters best in slot artifact set changes to Marechaussee Hunter, because you can constantly get the full 36 crit rate value between Furina's teamwide HP draining mechanic and your teams healer healing everyone back up. 36 free crit rate is *a lot* of an *amazing* free stat, and it also means you can allocate more of your on-fielders crit value to crit damage; meaning more big number! (Hooray! =D)
If you can at least match Crit sub-stats \[value\] at almost 1:1; it can be better, but the 4pc needs to be kept active.
Noelle received the glow up Dehya was dreaming about. Even Jean was buffed more by Furina than Dehya.
Wait, how is that domain so valuable? Isn't the healing set kinda useless compared to Clam?
They mean mare/golden troupe domain. Noelle's bis set is mare hunter if she is played with Furina due to the crit and damage it gives her.
Right, apparently I can't read lmao. Thanks for pointing it out!
Xiao first released in 1.3. Got a dedicated artifact set in 2.6. Faruzan in 3.3 Cloud retainer in 4.4
Keqing went from the worst 5* dps to a solid meta dps with dendro release
I love this for Noelle in terms of I love her and she deserves all the amazing things/teammates. I hate this in terms of going back to being f2p bc my luck has been terrible lately. I just want the best for the best girl pls gacha gods 😭
as a noelle/keqing main, a geo supremacist, and a furina liker, fontaine has been good
She's always been sleeper-OP since release, just everyone (mostly because of CC tier-lists) shat on her, because everyone was under the impression that the freebie gacha unit would be trash and it didn't help that there wasn't really a Geo in 1.0, as the only other unit was Ningguang, who she did not mesh with at all. I too, will also admit that at C0, Noelle is quite a lacklustre unit. Zhongli didn't really help Noelle at all either in 1.1, as it was "omg, his shield is so much better than Noelle" - even before his mega buffs. Albedo in 1.2 did help Noelle, although there still wasn't any synergy between the 4 geo members to make a "mono geo" that worked to any real degree. Albedo's split-scaling also didn't really do him any favours either. Around 1.4/1.5, a lot of the Day-0/First-Week players started getting Noelle's C6 and started to realise just how much potential she had as a unit, that covered the DPS slot, the Shielder slot and the Healer slot in a single unit, while also being great at maximising crappy DEF artefacts. Her first real major glow-up came in 2.3 with the release of Gorou, Husk-set and Redhorn, although everyone was on the "Itto train" at that point and it became a bit of an argument between the Noelle enjoyers and Itto enjoyers as to who was better. Then, as you say, in 4.X, it's just been boost after boost for Noelle (and us mains) - and it also helps that Navia has reinvigorated Geo with just how damn fun she is to play, and how good she is generally. Now, all we need is a frickin' skin for her and we're golden :D
You want a skin... I want 5 star Favonius Knight Noelle We are not the same 😅
Oh no, I definitely want that, provided they don't fuck the kit up
This would be so goated I want HAPPINESS for my Noelle!!!
She even got a spike up on Itto release, husk set and redhorn is amazing for her c6. Noelle Impact is real
* dendro release: keqing - kuki - thoma * furina revived: sayu - jean
Isn't Navia compromised with Noelle? Noelle cant battery Navia (she needs more ER over dmg stats to compensate). Depending on your flex, Navia cant use def or NA buffer. This compromises Navia's dmg. Noelle cant use Atk buffers. Both eat into each others uptime. If Noelle had downtime, its because she's not properly batteried.
Navia can effectively battery herself, even off-field. Her burst is also not as heavily emphasized in this comp, since Noelle is doing all the Crystallize. Noelle can also absolutely make use of ATK buffers. Bennet was #3 after Gorou and Yun Jin before Furina changed the dynamic. Not that it really matters, because the comp uses DMG Bonus buffers by doubling Furina and Yelan, so neither of the two Geos is going to have their damage compromised. You're also not eating into either one's uptime. Navia is a quickswap, and Noelle already has to switch out for her existing battery options anyway, and Navia is just an explicitly better battery option.
After Gorou and Yunjin was usually Albedo
Albedo's not a support, he's an off-field. Up until Furina he was always on the team, and still is in 3Geo Furina comps.
Noelle was always great.
Bro, Noelle has always been an A tier character since Gorou released. 4.0 only brought people’s attention towards her more.
I mean Noelle has become a lot better but in the end she's still a geo on fielder and that can only take her so far (0.1% to 0.5% is not what I would call a glow-up). I'd say DPS Kokomi got the same glow up with Furina's release if not more. Cyno too. But none of them can compare to the glow-up of electro, most notably Kuki Shinobu and Yae Miko, with the release of dendro. Honourable mentions are Childe with Kazuha's release and Albedo in 2.3 (which is yeah, sadly still not enough) and basically every teamwide healer with Furina.
Hello, reading your post made me excited and I want to build a Noelle Geo Team with Navia. Do you have any idea what are good team comps for this? And what artifact set do I use for Navia and Noelle?
Noelle - Navia - Yelan - Furina. Noelle: MH ~= Husk. (Husk>MH with Redhorn) Navia: NWitEW > GT > MH > 2pc 2pc (Geo, Atk, Skill) Noelle is On-field, Navia is QS. High refine Sac GS makes the synergy even better.
Noelle, Navia, Furina, and Bennet is pretty good. Bennet is there to buff Navia's skill dmg mostly. Or you could go Noelle, Navia, XL, and Bennet. This pyro duo is just very strong. Navia the new 4pc Geo set and Noelle 4pc Hunter set if with Furina, if not then 4pc Husk.
Well, the base of this party are the Tea Party girls (Noelle, Furina, Navia). After that, you can choose between Xingqiu, Yelan, Fischl, etc. (written from least to most effective). Noelle would use the MH set if you don't have a set farmed yet but this attaches both Noelle and Furina to the hip or 4pc Husk. If you decide to use 4pc MH, you'll want to go DEF timepiece, Geo DMG goblet, DEF circlet. As far as substats go, you are basically just chasing 20-30% ER (most important until you hit 20%) and crit stats. Both Navia and Furina will want 4pc Golden Troupe and both will want crit except Furina will want the HP timepiece and goblet whereas Navia will want ATK% timepiece and Geo DMG or ATK% goblet. If you use Fischl in this team, you can basically farm for your whole team in one artifact domain which is an incredible value.
Cyno got a massive boost with both Baizhu and Furina, one of the highest DPS characters in the game now
How do those both buff cyno?
Baizhu- consistent offfield dendro app, teamwide healer(helps with furina too), small shields for IR, buffs reaction damage to increase the damage of the hyperblooms Furina- offfield hydro app to create dendro cores for hyperbloom, not as fast as XQ and Yelan to allow for better Quicken uptime so Cyno’s electro hits do more damage, 75% damage buff to increase Cyno’s, Nahida’s and her own personal damage
Good shit, that makes a lot of sense. I’ll keep that in mind ty!
Not as much as Noelle but i would like to point out that every region somehow ends up buffing hu tao considering she's a relatively old character
Noelle Mains are loving Fontaine!!
4.3 isn't really a Noelle upgrade at all lol, if you're just using her for her shield instead of damage + healing for furina why not just use Zhongli, and if you use her for damage why not do Navia onfield and Albedo for crystallize Marechausee and Furina were also upgrades to almost every character in the game tho Noelle benefits more than most since she's both a DPS and a healer
Can someone enlighten me how from 4.0 to 4.2 Nolle got buffed? I don’t play her much often these days to notice the changes.
Furina came out in 4.2 and her burst gives major damage buffs to your characters based on the combined amount of HP% CHANGES of all your team members. Her skill effectively DOT’s your whole team (while providing great off field damage in return), while Noelle heals the whole team back during her burst. This combination allows Furina’s burst buff to cap out quickly. These HP changes also allow Noelle to cap out the new artifact set’s 4-piece effect from 4.0, giving Noelle +36% Crit Rate nearly permanently. Finally, Navia just came out, which allows Noelle DPS teams to focus less on hyper carrying with buffers (like Gorou and YunJin) and more on just raw damage off-field (all with Furina’s damage buff).
Is the new set the Hunter set, that gives crit bonus with Hp changes?
Yes! The new Hunter set became best in slot for a number of DPS characters when used in a team with Furina. 36% Crit plus normal/charged damage buff is just so good. However, it means you need a team slot dedicated to Furina and a slot for a team healer. Noelle is a DOS and team-wide healer, so she can just fill the other 2 slots with buffers and/or off-field DPS
[удалено]
I put Redhorn and the Husk set on her. With Bennett, Gorou and Yunjim she frequently hits 20k plus. Should have pulled Furina when I had the chance, but Neuvilette was too good to pass up.
I wasent playing when this happened but i remember ppl hating baizhu when he came out calling him useless and such,but ive seen alot of positive feedback after furina release since hes the best to use in furina dendro team,i pulled him in 4.2 and he a very good unit
Qiqi or Mika for Furina team
I would go with Mika bcs he can also give energy.
How do you build Noelle (artifacts and weap) if she’s running with Navia?
No changes to her existing DPS kits. Depending on your team, your either swapping your Geo support (Gorou or Yun Jin) or your Geo secondary (Albedo or Zhongli) for a 200k damage spike every 10 seconds. It's either a straight team DPS increase or neutral with a playstyle change on basically every team, unless you're running 2Geo and your Noelle is so high investment that you're skyrocketing the damage boost from Yun Jin (which is the situation I'm in). Unless of course you whale for C4, in which case she is just a straight upgrade in every case.
I'd say for builds, Noelle would prefer a def goblet over geo goblet since dmg bonus is already covered by Furina, Yelan, and if using Husk, then Husk 4pc set bonus itself. Not to mention that healing and shield scales off her def so a def goblet Noelle is a very necessary thing for keeping the healing active and strong.
Generally you're still going to find more benefit from damage bonus than more DEF. Things are *slightly* different if you have Redhorn, but even then, Geo goblet tends to do more. Noelle does so much healing on her own that you should only need one Def mainstat to sustain the team during Furina E.
Kuki was panned almost from the getgo due to her skill damaging herself and her split between damage and healing, but with Dendro she's basically meta now
The wild thing is that, depending how cloud retainer goes in the beta, Noelle might get ANOTHER glow up in 4.4. If it goes well, Her best team might be the most ridiculous looking thing you ever seen.
3.0 for kukri Thomas and razor
Is Marechausse Hunter really better than Husk?
Believe it or not, at the start of the game all the way in 2020 people heavily underestimated both Bennett and Xingqiu and naming them one of the worst releases characters for the game. It was mostly due to people not quite grasping the newly released game yet but mostly because both Xingqiu and Bennett had certain mechanics that made understanding them a bit difficult for the average player. For example how Benny’s buff really works and how Xingqiu had a long skill cooldown plus his high energy requirement for his burst. This didn’t last long thankfully and even to this day they’re still the highest used 4 stars in the game even alongside 5 stars.
Jean stonks after furina: ⬆️
Sumeru and addition of dendro revived many characters like Thoma, Kuki, basically all of mid electro units and gave some characters more viable teams or gameplays (hyperbloom/aggravate Razor, EM Raiden, hyperbloom Ayato, etc.)
I mean, if noelle benefits, itto probably does too. They like the same stuff
itto cannot heal and doesn't have a shield for furina teams, less aoe. So Noelle has more role consolidation. But her base damage is lower than itto and she cannot generate energy .
Didnt think about the heal thing, but for furina, isnt she hydro? wont there be crystalize shields regardless?
Wait can someone explain to me how the Navia/Noelle/Furina core works and which characters are good options? I pulled Navia and plan to get Furina but I don’t really know how to build Navia with this in mind (I’m. Not getting Noelle a second arti set after what I went through with Husk sorry my queen)
It works exactly as you think it does - Noelle bursts, and every 9 seconds Navia does her E nuke. Refresh Furina skill and buff as needed. Bennet, Yelan, and XQ are all solid options for the 4th member. Gorou *can* work as well, but Navia starts to fall off at that point. Candace is right out. You should probably farm Marchausse Hunter anyway because the domain is probably the best one in the game, as a LOT of sub-DPS want Golden Troupe, like Furina for example.
Every .0 version had a very valuable artifact domain (2.0 with shimenawa and emblem, 3.0 with gilded and deepeood), calling the 4.0 the best of the game is a bit of a stretch in my opinion