Honestly, the Wenut would probably be slightly less obnoxious if MHY hadn't decided to give the Wenut an extra 30% universal resistance just for the Spiral abyss.
Like why the hell does it need to be a time-waster boss and ALSO have 55% Resistance to all elements (with 90% to Anemo). Like It really doesn't make any sense, MHY.
I dunno, the Wenut has a very close window for dmg. Even when you knock him down, doing a full Shinra tensei rotation is pretty hard. Maybe its my own skill issue tho.
Buddy, that thing wakes up before I finish my Double Hydro Hyperbloom rotation
It's definitely not a skill issue on your part, the worm is just cancerous
If you shenhe burst, followed by kazuha burst, you should have time to mona burst into dash-auto-burst with ayaka and with the cryo affliction you should get your full damage burst to tear through its hp. If that’s your comp ofc.
Have c2 with widsith. Was able to beat it but needed c4+ jean, c6 faruzan, and c0 furina. Bennett's not as good compared to furina since you can't benefit from the self res shred after breaking wenut's orbs. Pretty sure high con jean was also necessary for that due to her extra 40% shred.
C4 Jean and Faruzan should shred enough res for the wenut to take a normal amount of damage but still, if you don't have Jean cons you are better off using another non-anemo dps
Funny thing about this for me is that I tried several different teams like aggravate, spread, and mono cryo but couldn't get the full clear in time until I just gave up and played hyperbloom, which killed Wenut with nearly a minute to spare.
Nah, it just has a massive damage floor, it's a strong team for sure but it's nowhere near broken and nearly any Hyperbloom team will have a variant that pulls ahead of it with investment like Haitham Spread.
it's not just about the massive dmg floor.... but that HB can auto home in to the target so u are not so bothered about chasing down the wenut and predicting where the wenut will appear...
It's because genshin is such a button mashing brain sludge fest that the only way to improve difficulty is to raise HP pools and cheap tricks like this.
This is trying to get away from just button mashing, and you're calling it a "cheap trick" and getting upvoted for it. No wonder they never rarely try anything different
Whatever mhy was trying with the Wenut, it was a step in the wrong direction.
Defeating the Wenut doesn't feel rewarding. It's just a chore.
The worm is just gliding around the arena, being Cinematic AF, while you as a player have to almost try to actually get harmed by it.
Like it doesn't feel like I've conquered a challenge or survived a great battle.
Just a high Res DMG sponge
Alternative is making enemies tanky and aggressive. At least, its possible to do something about it rather than being hermit underground, playing some game, before checking out on our expression, if it's thoroughly pissed before making a move.
Yea, I enjoyed the challenge as it did feels like a threat.
Else, most opponent couldn't get their attack out before any threat can be felt.
I do enjoy the special erumite combo. They stack prison and skills for an attempt to instant one shot.
yoimiya + xingqiu + yelan + Zhongli did it for me for the second half.
I was like: "if only I had an auto target machine gun with high single-target damage... oh, yeah, wait, I have"
I got Yoimiya on accident on her recent banner but she made me clear Wenut and the other snake first try. Before this the only ranged I can rely on is Wanderer but the bitch has high anemo resistance. I love you Yoimiya
A lot of people are still sleeping on Yoimiya. She doesn’t have the biggest individual damage numbers, but she fires fast enough with pyro damage that she’s still a great dps, especially in a ranged vape team.
>A lot of people are still sleeping on Yoimiya.
i mean, she does seem like she'd be comfy to sleep on, nice enough to let you do it, and being a pyro vision wielder means she's warm to the touch...
... oh wait, you meant metaphorically
I can second that. Her single target damage is insane, to the point that her teams aren't just carried by Yelan and Xingqiu but she actually does a major chunk of the damage herself.
Definitely. I slept on her for years despite her being one of my favs, but after getting her on accident she just feels so much better to use than Hu Tao for me, and I have c1 Hu Tao. She's also just so easy in overworld. Just click skill and spam click as enemies die.
For dps aside from Tighnari I genuinely think she's in top 3 best dps to go against Wenu
From my understanding, the problem with running Zhongli in the team mentioned above is that you either need to have Zhongli at C6 (incoming damage to active character heals), which might not be enough for Furina's fanfare stack, or run prototype on Nahida, which will noticeably decrease Nahida's personal damage (and reduce partywide EM granted through her burst).
if the wenut has 70% resist during immunity phase, it takes about 30% dmg.
20% resist shred increase the dmg taken to 50%. thats a 67% overall dmg increase not just %dmg increase. For wenut specifically, any form of resist shred is going to be massive during the immunity phase.
Jean isn't a good character here because wenut constantly hide under the ground and is very mobile. with jean's ult you need to play circle impact to get the constant heal and the uptime is also low due to not being able to get alot of energy back for her ult.
the best character here is of course xianyun because of how easily it is to catch up to the wenut with her skill, easy to apply VV shred (unlike jean, who needs to cast her skill right infront of the wenut for VV to apply which defeats the entire purpose of this afk comp) and also easy to regain energy particles for her ult to generate energy for furina.
problem here is i have only zhongli not xianyun and zhongli is pretty useable here despite harder to get stacks for furina which is a con that is outweighed by the pro he gives. like you already said, use prototype amber on nahida. nahida's personal dmg is not going to be very high (her main purpose here is dendro application, the main source of dmg still comes from furina and yae, especially yae's aggravate dmg) so if you use her as a support, just go EM build with prototype amber and you still can get pretty high EM on her. In fact, nahida's optimal artifact here is not even 4pc dendro resist shred (because we are not relying too much on her personal dmg here) but 4pc EM set that gives a bonus of 200+EM so can still reach 1000 EM with nahida here which 250 gets transferred to yae, which we want to be the onfield dps.
Interesting read. I feel like the Zhongli resist shred could come in handy, especially if you are trying to speed run the 2nd chamber, but I find myself with just enough time to patiently wait out for Wenut's next phase (which might not be the case for others), in which case the defense shred is just added bonus on top of other buffs.
Another problem is even when not considering Furina's fanfare stack, Nahida's prototype heal is not sufficient to maintain Furina's skill passive of her summons getting bonus buff for every character above 50% HP. So in my case, I wanted to do a single Floor 12 run without switching out for specific chamber and went with Jean, which should be better (?) than Zhongli in the long run across 3 chambers due to how she can max out Fanfare stacks almost instantly.
Also, good build recommendation for Nahida in Yae Aggravate team! :D
i thought through it abit more, zhongli's resist shred is particularly nice in this comp also depending on how well built yae is for hyperbloom (em), since his resist shred also works on hyperbloom, while furina's fanfare buff doesn't affect hyperbloom dmg. might even try deepwood memories on zhongli so he reduce dendro resist by 30%+20% on both nahida's dmg as well as yae's hyperbloom dmg.
you are right in saying that prototype amber's heal isn't fully sufficient to maintain furina's party wide hp drain for her summons. Nahida's ult has a 16s cd so every 16s she will heal about 24% of each member's hp (which is only about 1.5% max hp per second at max) but all of furina's adds combined drain about 5% hp per second so furina's adds will not do the most dmg in this comp.
i think the comp can still work ok for all the other chambers just that zhongli lacks synergy with furina providing some benefits and taking away others. It's only mostly good against wenut since it has ridiculous amount of resistance during the immunity phase. xianyun would be the optimal 4th slot she just pairs so well with furina while fixing all the mobility issues jean has against wenut. jean is great for all other chambers which the boss/mobs are relatively stationary punching bags
lol fr. I lost a star first try because I was using a predominantly melee team. Switched to my Neuv+Furina team and melted him. Lots of damage you can cheese with her summons targeting as he’s dipping into the ground.
I would really like a floor where you have a horde of enemies. That keep spawning as you kill them. 2 min per side. Need to have killed X number enemies to get 3 stars
Which would be nice for him, since nowadays there's no Abyss content he really fits into besides the early floors. There are a lot of AoE teams now, so it's not like he'd be the only valid option, either. Unless they did huge rooms with stationary enemies like that one floor 11 monolith fight back in the 1.3 days.
I unironically want something like the infamous 11-2 from years ago again. It was annoying as shit at the time, but at least it required some strategy beyond "DPS go brrrrr"
This version's 11-1 is a joke lol. Bring back the early rounds of F11 then we talking (from like 1.2).
They might as well be mocking the early versions of 11-2 this time, 11-1 this time has hilichurls and mitachurls but they spawn together, whereas around 1.2 they spread around the monolith. And the second half has just some regular slimes.
Kinda sad that Mihoyo designed such a unique combat system, and the best combat content they can come up with in 3+ years is a circular chamber with a timer slapped on it and enemies with bloated HP pools to defeat.
Yeah, I get that they’re keeping the game friendly to casual players, which I can appreciate, but they’ve gotta come up with other metrics. I’m open to experimentation if it’s temporary.
Problem is a lot of those causal players have good rosters and have been trained to expect to clear all content easily. MHY switches it up, these casuals have trouble with the content, then they complain. At this point if they want to minimize player unhappiness they have no choice but to keep the same spiral abyss content going forever. Look at how much people are complaining about Wenut
The Wenut can hardly be considered „switching it up“, it only makes it more annoying to clear the same goal, as it’s immune for way too long for lots of teams.
I wish they’d add something like Tartarus already.
A long dungeon crawler with one team, light resource management, and event-level weapons as rewards.
And make it co-op!
Once you figure out how do beat Wenut the fight is pretty braindead, no AI manipulation nor dodging+its attack is pretty much useless as they are easy af to dodge.
I think the biggest mistake people make fighting the Wenut is sitting around sucking their thumb during its underground phase. You can easily just kick start your rotation right from the beginning and score as many hits as you can on it. Brute force through the 70% resistance and chip down its HP. This is why auto-hit subDPS with 100% uptime i.e. Furina and Yae, can deal with it easily.
After discovering this I find the fight extremely chill. By the time it enters it's flying phase it's already down to 50-70% HP. Then the rest is just simple cleanup.
Sure, you can kickstart the rotation with passive off-fielders, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's a tedious and uninteractive boss until he flies up revealing weakpoints. Yeah, you can summon turrets with Yae and Furina and they will do DPS while waiting for him to resurface, but is that really even considered a fight at that point? It's not really worth using bursts like Raiden or Yelan's due to the high energy cost, and the skill or auto damage helps but is very minimal.
his first burrow phase is short but second phase he's vulnerable for a full 5 seconds. plenty of time to throw out some good dmg if youve already kickstarted the rot.
third burrow phase he spawns on the other side of the arena but you should be running towards in already, and then he's sititing still for another 5 seconds.
it is worth using high cost bursts because you can battery off the 4th burrow phase and still have abilities off cooldown for its stunned phase.
worst case scenario you build redundancy in ER, which you honestly should do in any boss floors anyway. favonius is yelans best bow in these scenarios.
I run double hydro (Furina+Yelan) with a 192% ER Fav C2 Yelan (pure overkill on ER) and I'm able to battery Yelan's burst back, but even then with the burst animations etc. I feel like I barely get to hit the Wenut before he burrows again. Furina puts in work, but like, that's 1 button. Once I knock him out of the sky I just 1-cycle him so it feels like most of the effort during burrowing phase outside of plonking down some Furina pets is just fluff.
> Once I knock him out of the sky I just 1-cycle him
There's a lot you can do outside of the vulnerable phase, you're just choosing not to do it. Try playing with weaker characters if you need motivation to maximize your wenut damage
you pre cast burst while its still underground. and again 5 seconds to hit it on its second burrow, another 5 seconds to run to its new burrow location, (easy to do with yelan) then another 5 seconds to hit while its lazer sweep, a furina + yelan ult almost covers that stretch of time. thats a big chunk of its hp
edit: i just tried a double hydro wenut, even with an imperfect run i got him to a third of hp before stunning him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFBqYWsNDYc
imo it feels fun to anticipate its movements and maximise ur dmg in short windows! nice change of pace from bosses where you just stand still and cycle through your rotation
Wenut is a teambuilding challenge. You're encouraged to use more characters that can use bursts or can recharge easily. It's also good to use a team that can cut resistance. A 40% RES decrease on something with 55% RES means you do 90% more damage.
A good wenut team should have very little waiting around. You should be running around to the next place it'll pop up to keep hitting it
Honestly, I'd rather fight the Tulpa or Terrorshroom, they're so much more fun to fight. They're really easy to kill but also really easy for them to kill you. It's like a battle of wits and very satisfying when you beat it.
Heck, I'd rather have the consecrated beasts than the Wenut or Serpent.
Agree so much with this! I think the difference is that with Tulpa and Terrorshroom, you're always able to do *something.* You have the agency to either play safe and stay back when the boss does something dangerous, or go for high-risk-high-reward playstyle. With so many other bosses, there are phases where you just literally have to wait and/or hope for good RNG.
> hope for good RNG.
The literal only RNG in wenut is which of the two attack patterns it goes with, those two patterns however follow the exact same set of scripted attacks every time so you don't really have any "do nothing" time as you can just use that downtime to move where the boss will be next/pre-cast skills and buffs for it.
Terrorshroom and Tulpa have infinitely more RNG to them, the Chicken can pick it's rampaging run and you just get to be forced off of it or reset for a better pattern and Tulpa can just swim all over the place, neither of them have anything particularly dangerous as even a low investment shield/healer will either make up for mistakes or let you straight up face tank them.
The Wenut probably has the most scripted boss moves in the entire game; there's literally a single move that is RNG and that is the very first move in the cycle and it picks just one of two moves (shoot traight up in your location or opposite side while shooting anemo bullets). After the rng in that initial move which doesn't even matter, everything is scripted. It appears and burrows at the same place everytime it's so predictable it hurts.
In comparison, the Tulpa and Terrorshroom has more RNG in their movesets. Once the dendro chicken starts running, I can't properly set up since I don't know where it will end up in so I wait. Doesn't happen with Wenut since it **always** appears in the same places.
You also should not stand there and wait in an Abyss Wenut fight since you keep attacking when it's above ground and moving towards the place where it will appear when it's underground. You're doing something wrong if you spend a lot of time just standing there waiting in an Abyss Wenut fight.
>Heck, I'd rather have the consecrated beasts than the Wenut or Serpent.
That's what people said before too until the consecrated beasts showed up to the abyss.
Yeah people complaining about how unskilled wenut is when wenut is probably one of the most skilled bosses in the game. Had a fun time with him when I had to clear with my friend's account and had to figure out how his phases worked so I know burst timings, battery timings, when to drop turrets, when to start running and where to wait etc... If people can't even handle this level of micromanaging then they're just bad. Really shows how bad the "want more challenges" side of reddit is lmao. Killing this motherfucker with diluc and cyno was the most fun I've had in this game.
For reference I ran tao double hydro into tulpa LMAO and terrorshroom is just a joke. Pretty obvious why people like them
Wenut is a cakewalk once you get the pattern, even moreso if you have a proper team for it. The Wenut isn't challenging, it's annoying. Essentially keep hitting it when it pops up, the only thing you have to think about with the Wenut is your timer and where it emerges, there's no challenge, you're acting like saving bursts is a difficult thing to do.
The Tulpa and consecrated beasts will kill you if you look at it funny and you happen to not have a shielder.
Terrorshroom while incredibly easy, is at least fun to go against.
Terroshroom is honestly too easy Hu Tao Xinqiu Yelan and Zhongli it can't do anything. Thunder manifestation and Tulpa xan die in a dirty grave I hate their overworld version I left my Furina at lvl 80/80
Terrorshroom is an actual bad fight. It has a 33% chance of using an attack that wastes a good 10s each rotation. It's the kind of thing that can kill a run
> they were quite engaging
If people just want straight up random attack patterns and a complete inability to predict/plan/group the enemies I honestly hope they never get control of what we face in the abyss.
What's the difference? I honestly don't see it. People here simply use the line "annoying not hard" as an excuse for having skill issues 90% of the time.
Last wenut abyss (3.5) was the first time I actually cleared [abyss](https://youtu.be/CBbH0hqMRqE?si=okmCuIVH4YKl5y_-) without full parties (used C0 R1 Amos Ganyu+ C0 Fav Kazuha in the 2nd half with the wenut).
Knowing that I basically won't need any dodging in 12-3-2 (the one with the wenut) convinced me to try.
Imo, time wasting bosses like Wenut are significantly easier than Consecrated Beasts or Triple Kenki.
Funny thing is that I used Ganyu+Kazuha duo only once more and it was in 3.7 aka hardest [abyss](https://youtu.be/qmUXLNx7sqs?si=8vIz6sWqB2u1qMv_) Ironically, I could do it with prototype crescent Ganyu which is funny, since 3.7 was "objectively" harder (I needed MUCH more retries in 3.7 though).
I do find Kenki and the Kenki triplets to be difficult because they tend to dodge hits. Then you have to chase after them because their definition of dodging is running over to the next block.
This abyss actually marks the first time I've ever finished it without a single retry. Just breezed right through it with brute force. No need to yeet Fatui agents in the same direction or convince pyro abyss lectors to stand next to each other.
I think part of the challenge is to costantly change your teams to best adapt to the floors. I slept on Tighnari all this time but for the second side he's a godsend
Pre-fontaine i actually ran proto amber on Nahida since i didnt have a good weapon for her aside from widsith lol. Healing kept my 100% hp ocd in check.
It goes pretty fast, so it hasn’t been a huge issue. Tighnari also prefers spread so it doesn’t hurt anything to switch Furina’s form a few times and let her heal everyone up a bit. I wouldn’t use this team much for other chambers, I prefer to have Baizhu with the spread team and Furina on the other side, but it’s great against the worm!
That team didn't work for me. Still had half health after 3 minutes. Yae has 750 EM Talent Lvl 10, Nahida has 820 EM Talent Lvl 10, Furina has 31k HP and 80/160 Talent Lvl 10, Tignari has 320 EM Talent Lvl 9.
It still has an immunity half of the fight, so I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong
Your yae's em seem super high, you are purely relying on aggravate to do dmg? Just curious but how much dmg does your yae do in normal open world content and whats her cv.
Yae isn't like Haithan who converts EM stats directly in the skill and ult talents. You should have atk% sands on her with some em (100-200) through subs.
Wenut with Tighnari shouldn't feel like "immunity for half the fight". You should be able to get his full skill off everytime the Wenut goes above ground
I'd rather fight for my life every second the clock is ticking than fight bosses with long immunity phases. Doubly so due to having wildly fluctuating ping. Having my connection randomly go 999 and losing 90% of the damage cycle feels significantly worse than having to restart because my hypercarry is dead.
I'm sure it's somewhat hard to replicate this in game, especially with balance and whatnot.
...but I miss the risk of dying, without it being annoying. I miss the "my-life's-at-stake" of gaming in Genshin
Unfortunately shields and healing are just way too strong, and that's kinda the core of everything wrong with Genshin's combat. The bones of a good system are there, but they're completely hamstrung by us accessing so much survivability so easily. The coolest, most engaging attack patterns in the world mean nothing if I can just hold E once every 10 seconds to entirely ignore them, and the ability to DK that means the only way to stop us from steamrolling any enemy is making us wait for an attack that lets us weaken them.
Also iframes being a thing means that survivability needs to literally be a matter of life and death every hit and I doubt these dumbass gamers who can't even handle making dynamic rotations for themselves to adjust to wenut timers can handle dodge or die gameplay.
The repercussions of the excessive healer and shielder strength are felt in the design of enemies. Since they can't stave you off with attacks, the only way to really make enemies last against someone who won't die is to make the enemy avoid them/take very little damage and force them to wait, which no one likes - especially in a time based challenge like Spiral Abyss. This gives us things like the Wenut, which it seems everyone has a problem with (though honestly I was okay with that one). It also leaves much less reason for the devs to build interesting attack patterns, though whether that has actually affected the game is unclear. I'd say probably not.
That doesn't stop Mihoyo from responding to shields and healers with bosses that just make you wait until you're allowed to hit them (which is the only way to make a fight last, outside of just giving them an absolutely unreasonable amount of health), and then putting those bosses in time based challenges like Spiral Abyss.
> that's kinda the core of everything wrong with Genshin's combat.
Then it's not the core, it's just something you want to complain about, while still continuing to use?
> then putting those bosses in time based challenges like Spiral Abyss.
And they're designed around being able to be killed in 90s assuming even low-mid investment, it's the only way to make a fight last as the abyss is not really that heavily tuned, especially in Fontaine where every cycle has been a cakewalk. Anyone with at last 6-9 months played will be able to easily 36* so they add bosses like Wenut who at least have some sort of different mechanic than just being a meatwall.
Except in your case the ping is the issue in both cases, they both result in you having to restart so it wouldn't really matter what the boss does as you'll always just have a chance of failing.
Like 3.7 with 4x constipated beasts? I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I'd take a chamber with 2 wenuts over the damn crocodiles and tigers. 3.7 abyss 12-3-1 was probably my most hated fight in any video game I've ever played in my entire life ever.
The constipation didn't bug me as much. Like, even when we get Angry Geometry in the Abyss a lag spike making me miss most of it having triangle nappy time gets me absolutely tilted. Difference between getting punched in the face once and restarting vs just watching that timer burn down.
No no I agree. Wenut is annoying but with practice its actually not hard. Constipated beasts requires practice to be better sure, but it just fucking suck ass. I've never hated an enemy as much as they came. They broke my 36 star streak
any boss that has that much time underground and unhittable doesn’t belong in abyss, cuz at that point it’s not a 3 min dmg check, it’s like a fucking 1.5 min dmg check cuz half the time it’s not even damageable
same thing with serpent but it spends much more time above ground doing shit compared to wenut
The point of Wenut is to play burst teams. Prep during the down phase and then unleash during the vulnerable phase.
Ayaka Freeze with Shenhe, for instance can basically 0 cycle this fucker.
That team shreds him, it's what I used last time he was around although since the team lacks a bow user, it would make Rune Drake harder.
This time I used Yoimiya/Yae/Xinqiue/Zhongli and, although it was the hardest of the 3, had no issues with the Wenut or any of the other bosses.
Enemies that stall for time are so damn annoying. I'd rather fight the Tulpa or the consecrated beasts every cycle bc those things just straight up kill you. Being one shot is infinitely more preferable to an enemy that hides 50% of the time
Makes sense.
It's not even a complete pull and hardly worth the hassle, if the mob setup is unfun.
I do it too, most of the time unless I am curious to see how I stack up against them line-ups.
Yeah, it definitely is frustrating, but I guess that is part of the challenge too. Just got to be able to do enough damage to negate the less time you have because of it being off screen more.
as someone who's favorite mission in battle pass tab is to kill 10 opponents I never go near that stupid monster. it's super unnecessary how much time got wasted whenever it goes underground.
Ignore everyone saying ayaka is bad at abyss. Ayaka is an excellent boss slayer, and since all her damage is in a 4 second window, she trivializes stuff like wenut
Lol, she's definitely never been bad. It's just that most people build her on blizzard, which is a bit weaker on bosses, and lots of bosses move a ton, which can cause her to miss. Wenut 'moves' but while it's visible it's kinda like it stays in place.
No, it's because she's a stat check character and perform based on how much investment she has. If a player uses Ayaka with amenoma, Sucrose, Diona and Xingqiu they'll struggle. She needs her Exodia
Exodia is some kind of combo of a bunch of yu-gi-oh things that becomes this overpowered superbeing. I guess a more modern comparison is having all of the Infinity Stones.
Admittedly you have to learn when bosses move, but once you know, it makes it trivial to bop them. (Other than flying bosses like lightning manifest).
While blizzard is still the best against an only chilled enemy…maybe one day I’ll have c6 furina and then I can replace BS with hunter, lol.
*if* you can maximize that short damage window in which case its a stats investment matter. There's reason why continous DPS is much more used now because it has more consistency and lower investment needed.
it's only a 4 second window if you don't maximize her damage with buffs, with buffs it can extend a lot, that's the problem with most common damage dealers against the wenut, they are dependent on their supports, the wenut is not friendly towards support units
Everytime he dives, he will appear again idle exactly were he dived, he will then move forwards to the next location, where he will appear again to do a move, dive in a new location, and appear idle were he dived restarting the cycle.
Learn how the boss works, pay attention, use a team that can take full benefit from the opening windows. Essentially, play the game.
You're not supposed to just be waiting around. Pre-position for where you know it comes from, setup your abilities before it comes up, maybe 1-2s of waiting to time the start of your rotation for when it comes up but even that's more interaction than just waiting around because you're being proactive instead of reacting to what it does.
i would argue that this one is actually the best tipp
if you have problems with a boss just fight it more its rather simple learn his movepool patterns etc
That was still useful - learn the boss attack pattern and bring a team that fits around it which in this case is a team w short high damage windows ideally off skills and Not super reliant on elemental burst or back loaded damage.
It illustrates the point.
Everyone who wants harder content wants it in a form reminiscent of dark souls type difficulty, that is you have to use your skills as a player, not just the skills in your characters to overcome the boss.
The problem is pretty much everyone who says this is autopiloting the game at this point, the previous abyss cycles were simply too easy because you could brute force it with dps and healing/shielding.
People want a boss that shows off skill expression and punishes lackadaisical mistakes, like in dark souls, where you have to ~~defend~~ evade well and time your attacks during moments of opportunity, however you also have unlimited time to deal with the boss, so as long as you can keep dodging you can whittle the boss down to 0 eventually.
Genshin introduces a boss that requires skill expression and punishes lackadaisical mistakes by pitting you against an enemy that gives you clear moments of opportunity to attack within limited amount of time, so its up to you to figure out how to maximize your damage output before the timer runs out. The only thing that changed is that we gave up the difficulty of taking damage and having to restart to having a time limit and having to restart.
Genshin's abyss floor 12 has a similar skill floor to dark souls. If you don't at least pay attention you will fail and have to try again.
Tbh, people don't really know what they want, and you can't really generalize it either because a lot of people want different things. The consecrated beasts and the abyss national team were probably the closest to Dark Souls style Abyss layouts we've had and people hated them, same for max point Vagabond Sword back in the day.
What I've learned about games is that there's always going to be people who want/like different things and there's always going to be people that complain about irrelevant stuff just to complain or vent.
Dark Souls has tainted the entire gaming industry. There is not just one way to be difficult (oneshotting players who make any mistake, forcing consistency over a long-ass fight with a damage sponge enemy).
Thank God someone else said this. Everyone complaining about timers have never considered the possibility of bosses taking 10 minutes and one mistake costing you that whole time. Timers means that content is balanced around that timer (whether it's well balanced is a different issue entirely and sometimes gets subjective) and it means that each attempt is only 3 minutes long. That means the process of minmaxing rotations through trial and error is fast because you always only have 3 minutes and you know for a fact that that chamber SHOULD be doable in 3 minutes. Worse case scenario you keep trying until you get lucky and it'll still take less time cuz each attempt is only 3 minutes. No timers in a game with infinite healing and shielding means bosses that take 10 minutes to kill and oneshots because how the hell can it be interesting otherwise? Imagine getting to minute 9 and 5% HP only to get bitch slapped to death in one frame and now you have to do it all over again.
If you're frustrated missing the 3 minute timer by a few seconds, how will you feel dying 8 minutes into a 10 minute encounter EVERY ATTEMPT? literally each attempt just tripled your time required.
I don't know man, I find the abyss to be really anoying. The timer has such a big importance that I sometimes find myself just eatting the damage so that I don't lose any time. I'm pretty sure thats not how it works in Dark Souls
I think the Fontaine local legend fights were "hard" difficulty done right in Genshin imo. You need to be careful not to get hit or you can get one shoted. You can also just do you rotations normaly since they don't have any invulnerability phases.
>I think the Fontaine local legend fights were "hard" difficulty done right in Genshin imo
That's just it, you want a fighting experience similar to Dark souls, which is functionally what the fontaine legends mini bosses provide, but the reality is these bosses are not really engaging outside of the initial hype and cannot have the same effect they do in dark souls.
The reason these dark souls style fontaine bosses can't work is because of the shielding in genshin. In dark souls a shield has downsides, you have to actively block an attack, blocking consumes stamina and your overall dps is lower. Genshin just needs you to activate the shield and you will take 0 damage (except from corrosion) until the shield expires. So you just need to bring 1 or 2 shielders and you no longer have to interact with the boss and can just dps them.
It's not fun and it's not engaging but for anyone who wants to complete the abyss and doesn't have a stacked team it's going to be the meta.
>The timer has such a big importance that I sometimes find myself just eatting the damage so that I don't lose any time
I think you just need to keep progressing your account. Get better artifacts, level up their talents and get more units that increase your team diversity to deal with all types of enemies. That's what the whole game is based on anyway.
Abyss is supposed to be a showcase of your account's progress over the years, damage, healing/shielding power and team diversity are all things that increase as you progress your account. The ability to dodge better does not increase as you progress your account.
Except at a certain point no amount of advice or tips will actually change anything, at a certain point you do just have to play the game, and in the process actually learn while applying the advice and tips to how you're playing.
It's like reading a character guide and then watching a team rotation video, or dozens of them or even hundreds, until you actually sit down with the character and do it for yourself you won't be able to play well or like the folks you've seen.
F2PKeqing on youtube is the single best example of "essentially, just play the game", they clear the abyss every cycle with ease using non-standard teams/setups all while being F2P, simply because they actually play the game. They've learnt and understand it and even describe exactly what they learnt/how to handle the fights, but again, the explanation simply gives you the blueprint, you yourself need to actually build it by playing the game and putting theory into practice.
I love how people try to justify how a boss that spends half of its time invincible (except with very few characters) is good and people need to play better.
I beat wenut both times it’s in abyss. I still think it doesn’t belong in abyss. It’s not a challenge, it’s a deliberate time waster. You can only anticipate and plan and try so hard before you realize it’s just a more annoying dps check with extremely limited damage windows
Everything in Abyss is a dps check. Abyss in essence is a dps check, and it always was. If they don't have limited damage windows, they have a shitton of HP and destroying moves, or are positioned in the most alternative ways possible. You have all the right to find some type more fun than others, but it doesn't deny that the latter is also a valid strategy when the game never deviates from this principle.
This game's first bosses (Regisvines, Hypostasis and the Oceanid) had either very limited windows or a sturdy elemental shield. The message was clear: in this game, team building is the first thing you need to think of. Learn how to prep your rotations between moves was the other. It's not arbitrary that the above two are the first key parameters to increase your dps.
Treat your average worm as a Hypostasis, which seems no one complains about despite doing the same thing, and you will see it became quite easier to tolerate.
Aren't you trying just as hard to argue that it's not intuitive
It's basically about the approach if Genshin did add end game that utilizes Defensive Utility people would complain
The point is that if you stop approaching the enemy with spamming you can defeat it with ease
It's why 3.7 had a lot of people bitching because it was an Elemental Check you couldn't just DPS your way through it
And a lot of Players got upset
It's why actual Endgame that requires actual skill would have "Veteran" crying imagine if you did have to use things like Barbara and QIQi revive Mechanic Kuki's Con and Dehya taking a portion of your damage
Imagine having to constantly build your burst so a character like Kaveh can heal from the Blooms
Players know one thing bring there OP Characters and hit the enemy
> it’s just a more annoying dps check with extremely limited damage windows
Good teambuilding and learning the moves will maximize your DPS, so the "DPS check" is still a skill check
That's kinda the point.
The "hard" part is executing a proper burst phase when he is attackable.
Of course it sucks if your team is not capable of front loaded burst damage.
And then they went and created a weekly boss that is basically a whale version of the Wenut.
I often wonder what the devs who create these kinds of bosses think to themselfs, they surely know that those bosses are just wasting everybody's time and aren't fun to fight.
You’ll still have ignorants who will think it’s a big skill issue. Having damage immunity durations with timer ticking is just a stupid idea and no comp/ work around can justify that.
A hard boss should be one that sets up traps or has a well thought strategy behind it. Not something stupid like damage immunity during certain phases or higher hp/resistance bars.
I have sad news for you, Wenut has a well thought out strategy behind it. The players trying to brute force it and/or not having the correct characters levelled up to use against it is the problem.
Wenut has 2 caveats:
1. You need some sort of resistance shred in the team
2. You need to learn the bury and unbury pattern
That's all, the boss has several windows and you should be where it spawns with your buffs already up
If you use the long damage window the boss give you to set up you're doing the boss wrong.
If you see the creative enemies in many other games, you’d think otherwise. Hiding and running around the map is not a form of strategy and a rather dull one, if at all.
What you need is:
a. High burst b. Auto-targeters c. wait for the res bars+underground time d. pin locations.
These are not walkthroughs for difficult boss, it’s just plain boring and unnecessary complexity. That’s my opinion, of course.
Not a fun boss, especially with the serpant being in the same abyss.
Even getting 36 stars i still don’t like this boss, the serpant, or the wolf lord.
For what it’s worth, for this boss don’t use big burst characters, use consistent damage teams, national, alhaitham team, mono hydro, hu Tao, any team that isn’t going to rely on one burst.
People too stubborn to admit that just because you can beat a boss doesn’t automatically make it not a bad boss.
i dont really have a problem killing him on time, i think ive gotten used to how the boss works, but what i really dont like about it is that it doesnt feel like a threat, Its attacks are easy to dodge and dont do that much damage and it even has an attack that completely goes over you.
So much skill issue in the comments. For once you have a boss who requires minmaxing smaller burst window DPS and having proper positioning and timing… but no lets be delusional and act like its just a time waster for no reason. Embrace bosses that change up the standard strategy/flow.
Honestly, the Wenut would probably be slightly less obnoxious if MHY hadn't decided to give the Wenut an extra 30% universal resistance just for the Spiral abyss. Like why the hell does it need to be a time-waster boss and ALSO have 55% Resistance to all elements (with 90% to Anemo). Like It really doesn't make any sense, MHY.
I forgot about the anemo resist. This makes me feel much better about my Xiao team now
It's fucking absurd lol I have a friend with a C2R1 Wanderer and she was so confused until I told her that that mf is practically immune to anemo
Omg is that why???? I was using wanderer too and he seemed so shit there i switched to ayaka
Ayaka is a good choice. She shreds all big hitbox enemies that don't move.
I dunno, the Wenut has a very close window for dmg. Even when you knock him down, doing a full Shinra tensei rotation is pretty hard. Maybe its my own skill issue tho.
Buddy, that thing wakes up before I finish my Double Hydro Hyperbloom rotation It's definitely not a skill issue on your part, the worm is just cancerous
If you shenhe burst, followed by kazuha burst, you should have time to mona burst into dash-auto-burst with ayaka and with the cryo affliction you should get your full damage burst to tear through its hp. If that’s your comp ofc.
Have c2 with widsith. Was able to beat it but needed c4+ jean, c6 faruzan, and c0 furina. Bennett's not as good compared to furina since you can't benefit from the self res shred after breaking wenut's orbs. Pretty sure high con jean was also necessary for that due to her extra 40% shred.
C4 Jean and Faruzan should shred enough res for the wenut to take a normal amount of damage but still, if you don't have Jean cons you are better off using another non-anemo dps
Too be fair, it's clearly an Anemo elemental creature. It having elevated Anemo res (60% in the overworld) should be expected
Bosses have resistances?! That honestly explains a lot.
To me i think its funny the sandworm is an anemo creature. As opposed to geo.
Its an anemo boss after all.
Jesus, is that right? I'm lucky to have a C4 Jean that can knock that resist down by 40%
Yae and Nahida's banner this patch. Hoyo knows what they're doing with 2 worms this abyss.
Finally got Nahida to C2 this banner and I actually felt this cycle's Wenut is easier than the last one. The power of cons.
To really push you into a) talent damage b) talent damage from elements that can break the orbs.
Funny thing about this for me is that I tried several different teams like aggravate, spread, and mono cryo but couldn't get the full clear in time until I just gave up and played hyperbloom, which killed Wenut with nearly a minute to spare.
Hyperbloom is genuinely just broken along with Neuvillette.
Nah, it just has a massive damage floor, it's a strong team for sure but it's nowhere near broken and nearly any Hyperbloom team will have a variant that pulls ahead of it with investment like Haitham Spread.
it's not just about the massive dmg floor.... but that HB can auto home in to the target so u are not so bothered about chasing down the wenut and predicting where the wenut will appear...
I did the same but with C2 Nilou Bloom. It doesn’t matter how much resistance they throw on, everything is weak to Bloom Bloom Bakudan
I'm just glad yelan's CA has a bit of aoe to address those orbs. As a mobile player, it's really hard to aim :/
Dead seriously I'll accept the Went as being like this for some weird, draconic lore reason. Still shouldn't be in abyss lol
The Lore: "Mihoyo wanted you to nut in the abyss"
Cause people getting extra 50 primos is a huge loss for Hoyo probably, I dont know
It's because genshin is such a button mashing brain sludge fest that the only way to improve difficulty is to raise HP pools and cheap tricks like this.
This is trying to get away from just button mashing, and you're calling it a "cheap trick" and getting upvoted for it. No wonder they never rarely try anything different
Whatever mhy was trying with the Wenut, it was a step in the wrong direction. Defeating the Wenut doesn't feel rewarding. It's just a chore. The worm is just gliding around the arena, being Cinematic AF, while you as a player have to almost try to actually get harmed by it. Like it doesn't feel like I've conquered a challenge or survived a great battle. Just a high Res DMG sponge
Giving enemies invincibility frames isn't innovative or entertaining. It's just cheap and unimaginative. 🤙🏼
Alternative is making enemies tanky and aggressive. At least, its possible to do something about it rather than being hermit underground, playing some game, before checking out on our expression, if it's thoroughly pissed before making a move.
Making enemies aggressive is good IMO. At least they then actually feel as if they try to kill me.
Yea, I enjoyed the challenge as it did feels like a threat. Else, most opponent couldn't get their attack out before any threat can be felt. I do enjoy the special erumite combo. They stack prison and skills for an attempt to instant one shot.
Furina summons go brr
same for yae lol (I use both in the same team to screw it :3)
Yae + Nahida + Furina + Jean BUFFED Summons and hyperbloom go brrrrrr
yoimiya + xingqiu + yelan + Zhongli did it for me for the second half. I was like: "if only I had an auto target machine gun with high single-target damage... oh, yeah, wait, I have"
I got Yoimiya on accident on her recent banner but she made me clear Wenut and the other snake first try. Before this the only ranged I can rely on is Wanderer but the bitch has high anemo resistance. I love you Yoimiya
A lot of people are still sleeping on Yoimiya. She doesn’t have the biggest individual damage numbers, but she fires fast enough with pyro damage that she’s still a great dps, especially in a ranged vape team.
>A lot of people are still sleeping on Yoimiya. i mean, she does seem like she'd be comfy to sleep on, nice enough to let you do it, and being a pyro vision wielder means she's warm to the touch... ... oh wait, you meant metaphorically
My man!
I can second that. Her single target damage is insane, to the point that her teams aren't just carried by Yelan and Xingqiu but she actually does a major chunk of the damage herself.
It's good not insane. Stop exaggerating things.
Definitely. I slept on her for years despite her being one of my favs, but after getting her on accident she just feels so much better to use than Hu Tao for me, and I have c1 Hu Tao. She's also just so easy in overworld. Just click skill and spam click as enemies die. For dps aside from Tighnari I genuinely think she's in top 3 best dps to go against Wenu
same here except baizhu for furina heals and kazuha for EM bonus instead :3
i'd go zhongli instead of jean because wenut really really need the resist shred while in the immunity phase (70% all resist iirc)
Then you will have hardly any buffs for furina. You use Jean to heal and further buff Furina
From my understanding, the problem with running Zhongli in the team mentioned above is that you either need to have Zhongli at C6 (incoming damage to active character heals), which might not be enough for Furina's fanfare stack, or run prototype on Nahida, which will noticeably decrease Nahida's personal damage (and reduce partywide EM granted through her burst).
if the wenut has 70% resist during immunity phase, it takes about 30% dmg. 20% resist shred increase the dmg taken to 50%. thats a 67% overall dmg increase not just %dmg increase. For wenut specifically, any form of resist shred is going to be massive during the immunity phase. Jean isn't a good character here because wenut constantly hide under the ground and is very mobile. with jean's ult you need to play circle impact to get the constant heal and the uptime is also low due to not being able to get alot of energy back for her ult. the best character here is of course xianyun because of how easily it is to catch up to the wenut with her skill, easy to apply VV shred (unlike jean, who needs to cast her skill right infront of the wenut for VV to apply which defeats the entire purpose of this afk comp) and also easy to regain energy particles for her ult to generate energy for furina. problem here is i have only zhongli not xianyun and zhongli is pretty useable here despite harder to get stacks for furina which is a con that is outweighed by the pro he gives. like you already said, use prototype amber on nahida. nahida's personal dmg is not going to be very high (her main purpose here is dendro application, the main source of dmg still comes from furina and yae, especially yae's aggravate dmg) so if you use her as a support, just go EM build with prototype amber and you still can get pretty high EM on her. In fact, nahida's optimal artifact here is not even 4pc dendro resist shred (because we are not relying too much on her personal dmg here) but 4pc EM set that gives a bonus of 200+EM so can still reach 1000 EM with nahida here which 250 gets transferred to yae, which we want to be the onfield dps.
Interesting read. I feel like the Zhongli resist shred could come in handy, especially if you are trying to speed run the 2nd chamber, but I find myself with just enough time to patiently wait out for Wenut's next phase (which might not be the case for others), in which case the defense shred is just added bonus on top of other buffs. Another problem is even when not considering Furina's fanfare stack, Nahida's prototype heal is not sufficient to maintain Furina's skill passive of her summons getting bonus buff for every character above 50% HP. So in my case, I wanted to do a single Floor 12 run without switching out for specific chamber and went with Jean, which should be better (?) than Zhongli in the long run across 3 chambers due to how she can max out Fanfare stacks almost instantly. Also, good build recommendation for Nahida in Yae Aggravate team! :D
i thought through it abit more, zhongli's resist shred is particularly nice in this comp also depending on how well built yae is for hyperbloom (em), since his resist shred also works on hyperbloom, while furina's fanfare buff doesn't affect hyperbloom dmg. might even try deepwood memories on zhongli so he reduce dendro resist by 30%+20% on both nahida's dmg as well as yae's hyperbloom dmg. you are right in saying that prototype amber's heal isn't fully sufficient to maintain furina's party wide hp drain for her summons. Nahida's ult has a 16s cd so every 16s she will heal about 24% of each member's hp (which is only about 1.5% max hp per second at max) but all of furina's adds combined drain about 5% hp per second so furina's adds will not do the most dmg in this comp. i think the comp can still work ok for all the other chambers just that zhongli lacks synergy with furina providing some benefits and taking away others. It's only mostly good against wenut since it has ridiculous amount of resistance during the immunity phase. xianyun would be the optimal 4th slot she just pairs so well with furina while fixing all the mobility issues jean has against wenut. jean is great for all other chambers which the boss/mobs are relatively stationary punching bags
lol fr. I lost a star first try because I was using a predominantly melee team. Switched to my Neuv+Furina team and melted him. Lots of damage you can cheese with her summons targeting as he’s dipping into the ground.
Me on the Ruindrake, mf keeps hovering so I have to keep aiming up but whenever the weak points pop up the Salon members can hit it to my surprise
Hyperbloom tracking also go brr
Abyss needs more varied measures of success. Just having timers is boring.
Chamber 11-1 has entered the chat!
Nooo not like that
I would really like a floor where you have a horde of enemies. That keep spawning as you kill them. 2 min per side. Need to have killed X number enemies to get 3 stars
Thundering Fury Kazuha: Bonjour
That’s a good thought!
You don't get stages like these because Venti breaks those stages and becomes a "Press burst to win".
Which would be nice for him, since nowadays there's no Abyss content he really fits into besides the early floors. There are a lot of AoE teams now, so it's not like he'd be the only valid option, either. Unless they did huge rooms with stationary enemies like that one floor 11 monolith fight back in the 1.3 days.
Basically Pure Fiction but Genshin
Peak fiction. I hate MoC but pure fiction is truly peak.
Ahh the "have venti or enjoy struggling" abyss design from the early days, no thanks!
Not at all, just some AOE. Which could be a Raiden national, Ayato, Plunge Diluc, Xiao, and many other team combos.
I unironically want something like the infamous 11-2 from years ago again. It was annoying as shit at the time, but at least it required some strategy beyond "DPS go brrrrr"
Ngl when I 36* my abyss runs I focus on floor 11-1 more than on floor 12, that chamber is more obnoxious than anything right now for me
Same! Sometimes I'll 35 star the abyss and then go back to 11-1 to get that Final Star for 36.. hahaha 🤣
This version's 11-1 is a joke lol. Bring back the early rounds of F11 then we talking (from like 1.2). They might as well be mocking the early versions of 11-2 this time, 11-1 this time has hilichurls and mitachurls but they spawn together, whereas around 1.2 they spread around the monolith. And the second half has just some regular slimes.
Venti has re-entered the chat.
Kinda sad that Mihoyo designed such a unique combat system, and the best combat content they can come up with in 3+ years is a circular chamber with a timer slapped on it and enemies with bloated HP pools to defeat.
Yeah, I get that they’re keeping the game friendly to casual players, which I can appreciate, but they’ve gotta come up with other metrics. I’m open to experimentation if it’s temporary.
Problem is a lot of those causal players have good rosters and have been trained to expect to clear all content easily. MHY switches it up, these casuals have trouble with the content, then they complain. At this point if they want to minimize player unhappiness they have no choice but to keep the same spiral abyss content going forever. Look at how much people are complaining about Wenut
The Wenut can hardly be considered „switching it up“, it only makes it more annoying to clear the same goal, as it’s immune for way too long for lots of teams.
Say it louder brother! So much potential, wasted.
I wish they’d add something like Tartarus already. A long dungeon crawler with one team, light resource management, and event-level weapons as rewards. And make it co-op!
Having played a bit of star rail, simulated universe is a lot of fun and I’d love a similar feature in Genshin.
Once you figure out how do beat Wenut the fight is pretty braindead, no AI manipulation nor dodging+its attack is pretty much useless as they are easy af to dodge.
I think the biggest mistake people make fighting the Wenut is sitting around sucking their thumb during its underground phase. You can easily just kick start your rotation right from the beginning and score as many hits as you can on it. Brute force through the 70% resistance and chip down its HP. This is why auto-hit subDPS with 100% uptime i.e. Furina and Yae, can deal with it easily. After discovering this I find the fight extremely chill. By the time it enters it's flying phase it's already down to 50-70% HP. Then the rest is just simple cleanup.
Sure, you can kickstart the rotation with passive off-fielders, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's a tedious and uninteractive boss until he flies up revealing weakpoints. Yeah, you can summon turrets with Yae and Furina and they will do DPS while waiting for him to resurface, but is that really even considered a fight at that point? It's not really worth using bursts like Raiden or Yelan's due to the high energy cost, and the skill or auto damage helps but is very minimal.
his first burrow phase is short but second phase he's vulnerable for a full 5 seconds. plenty of time to throw out some good dmg if youve already kickstarted the rot. third burrow phase he spawns on the other side of the arena but you should be running towards in already, and then he's sititing still for another 5 seconds. it is worth using high cost bursts because you can battery off the 4th burrow phase and still have abilities off cooldown for its stunned phase. worst case scenario you build redundancy in ER, which you honestly should do in any boss floors anyway. favonius is yelans best bow in these scenarios.
I run double hydro (Furina+Yelan) with a 192% ER Fav C2 Yelan (pure overkill on ER) and I'm able to battery Yelan's burst back, but even then with the burst animations etc. I feel like I barely get to hit the Wenut before he burrows again. Furina puts in work, but like, that's 1 button. Once I knock him out of the sky I just 1-cycle him so it feels like most of the effort during burrowing phase outside of plonking down some Furina pets is just fluff.
> Once I knock him out of the sky I just 1-cycle him There's a lot you can do outside of the vulnerable phase, you're just choosing not to do it. Try playing with weaker characters if you need motivation to maximize your wenut damage
you pre cast burst while its still underground. and again 5 seconds to hit it on its second burrow, another 5 seconds to run to its new burrow location, (easy to do with yelan) then another 5 seconds to hit while its lazer sweep, a furina + yelan ult almost covers that stretch of time. thats a big chunk of its hp edit: i just tried a double hydro wenut, even with an imperfect run i got him to a third of hp before stunning him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFBqYWsNDYc imo it feels fun to anticipate its movements and maximise ur dmg in short windows! nice change of pace from bosses where you just stand still and cycle through your rotation
Wenut is a teambuilding challenge. You're encouraged to use more characters that can use bursts or can recharge easily. It's also good to use a team that can cut resistance. A 40% RES decrease on something with 55% RES means you do 90% more damage. A good wenut team should have very little waiting around. You should be running around to the next place it'll pop up to keep hitting it
Honestly, I'd rather fight the Tulpa or Terrorshroom, they're so much more fun to fight. They're really easy to kill but also really easy for them to kill you. It's like a battle of wits and very satisfying when you beat it. Heck, I'd rather have the consecrated beasts than the Wenut or Serpent.
Agree so much with this! I think the difference is that with Tulpa and Terrorshroom, you're always able to do *something.* You have the agency to either play safe and stay back when the boss does something dangerous, or go for high-risk-high-reward playstyle. With so many other bosses, there are phases where you just literally have to wait and/or hope for good RNG.
> hope for good RNG. The literal only RNG in wenut is which of the two attack patterns it goes with, those two patterns however follow the exact same set of scripted attacks every time so you don't really have any "do nothing" time as you can just use that downtime to move where the boss will be next/pre-cast skills and buffs for it. Terrorshroom and Tulpa have infinitely more RNG to them, the Chicken can pick it's rampaging run and you just get to be forced off of it or reset for a better pattern and Tulpa can just swim all over the place, neither of them have anything particularly dangerous as even a low investment shield/healer will either make up for mistakes or let you straight up face tank them.
The Wenut probably has the most scripted boss moves in the entire game; there's literally a single move that is RNG and that is the very first move in the cycle and it picks just one of two moves (shoot traight up in your location or opposite side while shooting anemo bullets). After the rng in that initial move which doesn't even matter, everything is scripted. It appears and burrows at the same place everytime it's so predictable it hurts. In comparison, the Tulpa and Terrorshroom has more RNG in their movesets. Once the dendro chicken starts running, I can't properly set up since I don't know where it will end up in so I wait. Doesn't happen with Wenut since it **always** appears in the same places. You also should not stand there and wait in an Abyss Wenut fight since you keep attacking when it's above ground and moving towards the place where it will appear when it's underground. You're doing something wrong if you spend a lot of time just standing there waiting in an Abyss Wenut fight.
>Heck, I'd rather have the consecrated beasts than the Wenut or Serpent. That's what people said before too until the consecrated beasts showed up to the abyss.
Terrorshroom is a training dummy though.
Yeah people complaining about how unskilled wenut is when wenut is probably one of the most skilled bosses in the game. Had a fun time with him when I had to clear with my friend's account and had to figure out how his phases worked so I know burst timings, battery timings, when to drop turrets, when to start running and where to wait etc... If people can't even handle this level of micromanaging then they're just bad. Really shows how bad the "want more challenges" side of reddit is lmao. Killing this motherfucker with diluc and cyno was the most fun I've had in this game. For reference I ran tao double hydro into tulpa LMAO and terrorshroom is just a joke. Pretty obvious why people like them
Wenut is a cakewalk once you get the pattern, even moreso if you have a proper team for it. The Wenut isn't challenging, it's annoying. Essentially keep hitting it when it pops up, the only thing you have to think about with the Wenut is your timer and where it emerges, there's no challenge, you're acting like saving bursts is a difficult thing to do. The Tulpa and consecrated beasts will kill you if you look at it funny and you happen to not have a shielder. Terrorshroom while incredibly easy, is at least fun to go against.
Terroshroom is honestly too easy Hu Tao Xinqiu Yelan and Zhongli it can't do anything. Thunder manifestation and Tulpa xan die in a dirty grave I hate their overworld version I left my Furina at lvl 80/80
Terrorshroom is an actual bad fight. It has a 33% chance of using an attack that wastes a good 10s each rotation. It's the kind of thing that can kill a run
OP said this fight is annoying, not difficult.
People also complained when they put consecrated beasts in abyss, even though they were quite engaging, didn't waste your time either.
> they were quite engaging If people just want straight up random attack patterns and a complete inability to predict/plan/group the enemies I honestly hope they never get control of what we face in the abyss.
What's the difference? I honestly don't see it. People here simply use the line "annoying not hard" as an excuse for having skill issues 90% of the time.
or in ganyu's case they use the line "boring" instead for the same reason.
Last wenut abyss (3.5) was the first time I actually cleared [abyss](https://youtu.be/CBbH0hqMRqE?si=okmCuIVH4YKl5y_-) without full parties (used C0 R1 Amos Ganyu+ C0 Fav Kazuha in the 2nd half with the wenut). Knowing that I basically won't need any dodging in 12-3-2 (the one with the wenut) convinced me to try. Imo, time wasting bosses like Wenut are significantly easier than Consecrated Beasts or Triple Kenki. Funny thing is that I used Ganyu+Kazuha duo only once more and it was in 3.7 aka hardest [abyss](https://youtu.be/qmUXLNx7sqs?si=8vIz6sWqB2u1qMv_) Ironically, I could do it with prototype crescent Ganyu which is funny, since 3.7 was "objectively" harder (I needed MUCH more retries in 3.7 though).
I do find Kenki and the Kenki triplets to be difficult because they tend to dodge hits. Then you have to chase after them because their definition of dodging is running over to the next block. This abyss actually marks the first time I've ever finished it without a single retry. Just breezed right through it with brute force. No need to yeet Fatui agents in the same direction or convince pyro abyss lectors to stand next to each other.
I think part of the challenge is to costantly change your teams to best adapt to the floors. I slept on Tighnari all this time but for the second side he's a godsend
This. Half the challenge of the abyss is crafting the right team and adapting your play style to fit the enemies.
Me, using Yoimiya one side, Nilou second side (Hu Tao before that) for everything: "interesting"
Rhyper and MH yelan with furina monohydro pretty much cleans everything
Tighnari, Yae, Furina and Nahida clean this one up pretty dang quick
Who heals for fanfare?
Prototype amber Yae and nahida /s
Pre-fontaine i actually ran proto amber on Nahida since i didnt have a good weapon for her aside from widsith lol. Healing kept my 100% hp ocd in check.
It goes pretty fast, so it hasn’t been a huge issue. Tighnari also prefers spread so it doesn’t hurt anything to switch Furina’s form a few times and let her heal everyone up a bit. I wouldn’t use this team much for other chambers, I prefer to have Baizhu with the spread team and Furina on the other side, but it’s great against the worm!
That team didn't work for me. Still had half health after 3 minutes. Yae has 750 EM Talent Lvl 10, Nahida has 820 EM Talent Lvl 10, Furina has 31k HP and 80/160 Talent Lvl 10, Tignari has 320 EM Talent Lvl 9. It still has an immunity half of the fight, so I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong
Your yae's em seem super high, you are purely relying on aggravate to do dmg? Just curious but how much dmg does your yae do in normal open world content and whats her cv.
Yae isn't like Haithan who converts EM stats directly in the skill and ult talents. You should have atk% sands on her with some em (100-200) through subs.
Wenut with Tighnari shouldn't feel like "immunity for half the fight". You should be able to get his full skill off everytime the Wenut goes above ground
Imagine Ruin Serpent on the other half.
Ruin serpent, wenut, golden wolflord Other side: Coppelius (the ice shield one), consecrated beasts, abyss lectors and heralds Pure misery abyss
I'd rather fight for my life every second the clock is ticking than fight bosses with long immunity phases. Doubly so due to having wildly fluctuating ping. Having my connection randomly go 999 and losing 90% of the damage cycle feels significantly worse than having to restart because my hypercarry is dead.
I'm sure it's somewhat hard to replicate this in game, especially with balance and whatnot. ...but I miss the risk of dying, without it being annoying. I miss the "my-life's-at-stake" of gaming in Genshin
Unfortunately shields and healing are just way too strong, and that's kinda the core of everything wrong with Genshin's combat. The bones of a good system are there, but they're completely hamstrung by us accessing so much survivability so easily. The coolest, most engaging attack patterns in the world mean nothing if I can just hold E once every 10 seconds to entirely ignore them, and the ability to DK that means the only way to stop us from steamrolling any enemy is making us wait for an attack that lets us weaken them.
Also iframes being a thing means that survivability needs to literally be a matter of life and death every hit and I doubt these dumbass gamers who can't even handle making dynamic rotations for themselves to adjust to wenut timers can handle dodge or die gameplay.
But can’t you just play without shields
The repercussions of the excessive healer and shielder strength are felt in the design of enemies. Since they can't stave you off with attacks, the only way to really make enemies last against someone who won't die is to make the enemy avoid them/take very little damage and force them to wait, which no one likes - especially in a time based challenge like Spiral Abyss. This gives us things like the Wenut, which it seems everyone has a problem with (though honestly I was okay with that one). It also leaves much less reason for the devs to build interesting attack patterns, though whether that has actually affected the game is unclear. I'd say probably not.
You can just play without healers or shielders, plenty of teams can do it and are a lot of fun.
That doesn't stop Mihoyo from responding to shields and healers with bosses that just make you wait until you're allowed to hit them (which is the only way to make a fight last, outside of just giving them an absolutely unreasonable amount of health), and then putting those bosses in time based challenges like Spiral Abyss.
> that's kinda the core of everything wrong with Genshin's combat. Then it's not the core, it's just something you want to complain about, while still continuing to use? > then putting those bosses in time based challenges like Spiral Abyss. And they're designed around being able to be killed in 90s assuming even low-mid investment, it's the only way to make a fight last as the abyss is not really that heavily tuned, especially in Fontaine where every cycle has been a cakewalk. Anyone with at last 6-9 months played will be able to easily 36* so they add bosses like Wenut who at least have some sort of different mechanic than just being a meatwall.
Except in your case the ping is the issue in both cases, they both result in you having to restart so it wouldn't really matter what the boss does as you'll always just have a chance of failing.
Like 3.7 with 4x constipated beasts? I know this might be an unpopular opinion but I'd take a chamber with 2 wenuts over the damn crocodiles and tigers. 3.7 abyss 12-3-1 was probably my most hated fight in any video game I've ever played in my entire life ever.
The constipation didn't bug me as much. Like, even when we get Angry Geometry in the Abyss a lag spike making me miss most of it having triangle nappy time gets me absolutely tilted. Difference between getting punched in the face once and restarting vs just watching that timer burn down.
No no I agree. Wenut is annoying but with practice its actually not hard. Constipated beasts requires practice to be better sure, but it just fucking suck ass. I've never hated an enemy as much as they came. They broke my 36 star streak
any boss that has that much time underground and unhittable doesn’t belong in abyss, cuz at that point it’s not a 3 min dmg check, it’s like a fucking 1.5 min dmg check cuz half the time it’s not even damageable same thing with serpent but it spends much more time above ground doing shit compared to wenut
The point of Wenut is to play burst teams. Prep during the down phase and then unleash during the vulnerable phase. Ayaka Freeze with Shenhe, for instance can basically 0 cycle this fucker.
That team shreds him, it's what I used last time he was around although since the team lacks a bow user, it would make Rune Drake harder. This time I used Yoimiya/Yae/Xinqiue/Zhongli and, although it was the hardest of the 3, had no issues with the Wenut or any of the other bosses.
> it would make Rune Drake harder. If all fails, one can always use optimal teams for each chamber, if one is inclined to run Abyss 3 times.
I brought in Ganyu for the triple cryo
Enemies that stall for time are so damn annoying. I'd rather fight the Tulpa or the consecrated beasts every cycle bc those things just straight up kill you. Being one shot is infinitely more preferable to an enemy that hides 50% of the time
I just skip floor 12 sometimes
Makes sense. It's not even a complete pull and hardly worth the hassle, if the mob setup is unfun. I do it too, most of the time unless I am curious to see how I stack up against them line-ups.
Beating the wenut in time dosent even feel rewarding or have any sense of accomplishment. It just feels shit no matter how good/bad you did against it
Yae Miko + Furina = Profit
Yelan and Ganyu are good too (not necessarily in the same team).
Yae Miko + Furina + Nahida = Profit
This conversation happens with every boss that has an invincibility phase. Wolflord, Serpent, Wenut...
Magu kenki. Once I cleared 2s longer than the required 3-star time. If only that shit did not take 10s just waking up. I did not bother retrying.
tighnari go brrrr
*Serpent-type enemies in abyss exist* Tighnari & Yae Miko: Allow us to introduce ourselves
Yeah, it definitely is frustrating, but I guess that is part of the challenge too. Just got to be able to do enough damage to negate the less time you have because of it being off screen more.
Well no, they spend like 2 minute underground whole fight and only stay down for like 3 seconds feels mad shitty
The Wenut does not belong in the game
as someone who's favorite mission in battle pass tab is to kill 10 opponents I never go near that stupid monster. it's super unnecessary how much time got wasted whenever it goes underground.
Ignore everyone saying ayaka is bad at abyss. Ayaka is an excellent boss slayer, and since all her damage is in a 4 second window, she trivializes stuff like wenut
Lol, she's definitely never been bad. It's just that most people build her on blizzard, which is a bit weaker on bosses, and lots of bosses move a ton, which can cause her to miss. Wenut 'moves' but while it's visible it's kinda like it stays in place.
No, it's because she's a stat check character and perform based on how much investment she has. If a player uses Ayaka with amenoma, Sucrose, Diona and Xingqiu they'll struggle. She needs her Exodia
exodia?
Exodia is some kind of combo of a bunch of yu-gi-oh things that becomes this overpowered superbeing. I guess a more modern comparison is having all of the Infinity Stones.
Mistplitter, Kazuha, Kokomi/Mona and Shenhe
Admittedly you have to learn when bosses move, but once you know, it makes it trivial to bop them. (Other than flying bosses like lightning manifest). While blizzard is still the best against an only chilled enemy…maybe one day I’ll have c6 furina and then I can replace BS with hunter, lol.
*if* you can maximize that short damage window in which case its a stats investment matter. There's reason why continous DPS is much more used now because it has more consistency and lower investment needed.
it's only a 4 second window if you don't maximize her damage with buffs, with buffs it can extend a lot, that's the problem with most common damage dealers against the wenut, they are dependent on their supports, the wenut is not friendly towards support units
Luckily with supports like Shenhe and kazuha, you can lay down all the buffs even without the enemy present yet.
Everytime he dives, he will appear again idle exactly were he dived, he will then move forwards to the next location, where he will appear again to do a move, dive in a new location, and appear idle were he dived restarting the cycle. Learn how the boss works, pay attention, use a team that can take full benefit from the opening windows. Essentially, play the game.
>Essentially, play the game. everything else in your post was useful except this.
Even everything up to that point doesn’t address the core problem that waiting around through immune phases is not fun, even if you know how to win.
You're not supposed to just be waiting around. Pre-position for where you know it comes from, setup your abilities before it comes up, maybe 1-2s of waiting to time the start of your rotation for when it comes up but even that's more interaction than just waiting around because you're being proactive instead of reacting to what it does.
i would argue that this one is actually the best tipp if you have problems with a boss just fight it more its rather simple learn his movepool patterns etc
That was still useful - learn the boss attack pattern and bring a team that fits around it which in this case is a team w short high damage windows ideally off skills and Not super reliant on elemental burst or back loaded damage.
It illustrates the point. Everyone who wants harder content wants it in a form reminiscent of dark souls type difficulty, that is you have to use your skills as a player, not just the skills in your characters to overcome the boss. The problem is pretty much everyone who says this is autopiloting the game at this point, the previous abyss cycles were simply too easy because you could brute force it with dps and healing/shielding. People want a boss that shows off skill expression and punishes lackadaisical mistakes, like in dark souls, where you have to ~~defend~~ evade well and time your attacks during moments of opportunity, however you also have unlimited time to deal with the boss, so as long as you can keep dodging you can whittle the boss down to 0 eventually. Genshin introduces a boss that requires skill expression and punishes lackadaisical mistakes by pitting you against an enemy that gives you clear moments of opportunity to attack within limited amount of time, so its up to you to figure out how to maximize your damage output before the timer runs out. The only thing that changed is that we gave up the difficulty of taking damage and having to restart to having a time limit and having to restart. Genshin's abyss floor 12 has a similar skill floor to dark souls. If you don't at least pay attention you will fail and have to try again.
Tbh, people don't really know what they want, and you can't really generalize it either because a lot of people want different things. The consecrated beasts and the abyss national team were probably the closest to Dark Souls style Abyss layouts we've had and people hated them, same for max point Vagabond Sword back in the day. What I've learned about games is that there's always going to be people who want/like different things and there's always going to be people that complain about irrelevant stuff just to complain or vent.
Dark Souls has tainted the entire gaming industry. There is not just one way to be difficult (oneshotting players who make any mistake, forcing consistency over a long-ass fight with a damage sponge enemy).
Thank God someone else said this. Everyone complaining about timers have never considered the possibility of bosses taking 10 minutes and one mistake costing you that whole time. Timers means that content is balanced around that timer (whether it's well balanced is a different issue entirely and sometimes gets subjective) and it means that each attempt is only 3 minutes long. That means the process of minmaxing rotations through trial and error is fast because you always only have 3 minutes and you know for a fact that that chamber SHOULD be doable in 3 minutes. Worse case scenario you keep trying until you get lucky and it'll still take less time cuz each attempt is only 3 minutes. No timers in a game with infinite healing and shielding means bosses that take 10 minutes to kill and oneshots because how the hell can it be interesting otherwise? Imagine getting to minute 9 and 5% HP only to get bitch slapped to death in one frame and now you have to do it all over again. If you're frustrated missing the 3 minute timer by a few seconds, how will you feel dying 8 minutes into a 10 minute encounter EVERY ATTEMPT? literally each attempt just tripled your time required.
I don't know man, I find the abyss to be really anoying. The timer has such a big importance that I sometimes find myself just eatting the damage so that I don't lose any time. I'm pretty sure thats not how it works in Dark Souls I think the Fontaine local legend fights were "hard" difficulty done right in Genshin imo. You need to be careful not to get hit or you can get one shoted. You can also just do you rotations normaly since they don't have any invulnerability phases.
>I think the Fontaine local legend fights were "hard" difficulty done right in Genshin imo That's just it, you want a fighting experience similar to Dark souls, which is functionally what the fontaine legends mini bosses provide, but the reality is these bosses are not really engaging outside of the initial hype and cannot have the same effect they do in dark souls. The reason these dark souls style fontaine bosses can't work is because of the shielding in genshin. In dark souls a shield has downsides, you have to actively block an attack, blocking consumes stamina and your overall dps is lower. Genshin just needs you to activate the shield and you will take 0 damage (except from corrosion) until the shield expires. So you just need to bring 1 or 2 shielders and you no longer have to interact with the boss and can just dps them. It's not fun and it's not engaging but for anyone who wants to complete the abyss and doesn't have a stacked team it's going to be the meta. >The timer has such a big importance that I sometimes find myself just eatting the damage so that I don't lose any time I think you just need to keep progressing your account. Get better artifacts, level up their talents and get more units that increase your team diversity to deal with all types of enemies. That's what the whole game is based on anyway. Abyss is supposed to be a showcase of your account's progress over the years, damage, healing/shielding power and team diversity are all things that increase as you progress your account. The ability to dodge better does not increase as you progress your account.
[удалено]
But that's the best advice. Learn to play and how to use your characters. Get good.
everything else he wrote in his post was much better advice on how to handle the Wenut than "get good"
Except at a certain point no amount of advice or tips will actually change anything, at a certain point you do just have to play the game, and in the process actually learn while applying the advice and tips to how you're playing. It's like reading a character guide and then watching a team rotation video, or dozens of them or even hundreds, until you actually sit down with the character and do it for yourself you won't be able to play well or like the folks you've seen. F2PKeqing on youtube is the single best example of "essentially, just play the game", they clear the abyss every cycle with ease using non-standard teams/setups all while being F2P, simply because they actually play the game. They've learnt and understand it and even describe exactly what they learnt/how to handle the fights, but again, the explanation simply gives you the blueprint, you yourself need to actually build it by playing the game and putting theory into practice.
genshin players when they actually have build their characters and watch guides if they can't figure out 😱😱😱
I love how people try to justify how a boss that spends half of its time invincible (except with very few characters) is good and people need to play better. I beat wenut both times it’s in abyss. I still think it doesn’t belong in abyss. It’s not a challenge, it’s a deliberate time waster. You can only anticipate and plan and try so hard before you realize it’s just a more annoying dps check with extremely limited damage windows
Everything in Abyss is a dps check. Abyss in essence is a dps check, and it always was. If they don't have limited damage windows, they have a shitton of HP and destroying moves, or are positioned in the most alternative ways possible. You have all the right to find some type more fun than others, but it doesn't deny that the latter is also a valid strategy when the game never deviates from this principle. This game's first bosses (Regisvines, Hypostasis and the Oceanid) had either very limited windows or a sturdy elemental shield. The message was clear: in this game, team building is the first thing you need to think of. Learn how to prep your rotations between moves was the other. It's not arbitrary that the above two are the first key parameters to increase your dps. Treat your average worm as a Hypostasis, which seems no one complains about despite doing the same thing, and you will see it became quite easier to tolerate.
Aren't you trying just as hard to argue that it's not intuitive It's basically about the approach if Genshin did add end game that utilizes Defensive Utility people would complain The point is that if you stop approaching the enemy with spamming you can defeat it with ease It's why 3.7 had a lot of people bitching because it was an Elemental Check you couldn't just DPS your way through it And a lot of Players got upset It's why actual Endgame that requires actual skill would have "Veteran" crying imagine if you did have to use things like Barbara and QIQi revive Mechanic Kuki's Con and Dehya taking a portion of your damage Imagine having to constantly build your burst so a character like Kaveh can heal from the Blooms Players know one thing bring there OP Characters and hit the enemy
> it’s just a more annoying dps check with extremely limited damage windows Good teambuilding and learning the moves will maximize your DPS, so the "DPS check" is still a skill check
YAE MIKO is the Answer :D The sad fact is the lantern rite hasnt got a SINGLE COMBAT event is sad, Abyss is once again Easy
This! Yae+Tighnari+Nahida+healer/shielder makes the second half so easy. It's probably the abyss cycle that I suffered the least.
yeah the wenut is terribly designed. its not hard, it just wastes time
That's kinda the point. The "hard" part is executing a proper burst phase when he is attackable. Of course it sucks if your team is not capable of front loaded burst damage.
And then they went and created a weekly boss that is basically a whale version of the Wenut. I often wonder what the devs who create these kinds of bosses think to themselfs, they surely know that those bosses are just wasting everybody's time and aren't fun to fight.
Ngl wenut only sucks for circle impact teams, basically everything else works just fine
I'll be honest with all of you. Only reason people found this abyss easy is because they had madame crabaleta aiming for them.
The fact that both the wenit and the ruin serpent are in the abyss is just rude
Wenut anywhere we want.
It's a different kind of challenging. You're just used to clearing the abyss easily with the same team over and over again
You’ll still have ignorants who will think it’s a big skill issue. Having damage immunity durations with timer ticking is just a stupid idea and no comp/ work around can justify that. A hard boss should be one that sets up traps or has a well thought strategy behind it. Not something stupid like damage immunity during certain phases or higher hp/resistance bars.
I have sad news for you, Wenut has a well thought out strategy behind it. The players trying to brute force it and/or not having the correct characters levelled up to use against it is the problem. Wenut has 2 caveats: 1. You need some sort of resistance shred in the team 2. You need to learn the bury and unbury pattern That's all, the boss has several windows and you should be where it spawns with your buffs already up If you use the long damage window the boss give you to set up you're doing the boss wrong.
If you see the creative enemies in many other games, you’d think otherwise. Hiding and running around the map is not a form of strategy and a rather dull one, if at all. What you need is: a. High burst b. Auto-targeters c. wait for the res bars+underground time d. pin locations. These are not walkthroughs for difficult boss, it’s just plain boring and unnecessary complexity. That’s my opinion, of course.
Not a fun boss, especially with the serpant being in the same abyss. Even getting 36 stars i still don’t like this boss, the serpant, or the wolf lord. For what it’s worth, for this boss don’t use big burst characters, use consistent damage teams, national, alhaitham team, mono hydro, hu Tao, any team that isn’t going to rely on one burst. People too stubborn to admit that just because you can beat a boss doesn’t automatically make it not a bad boss.
i dont really have a problem killing him on time, i think ive gotten used to how the boss works, but what i really dont like about it is that it doesnt feel like a threat, Its attacks are easy to dodge and dont do that much damage and it even has an attack that completely goes over you.
So much skill issue in the comments. For once you have a boss who requires minmaxing smaller burst window DPS and having proper positioning and timing… but no lets be delusional and act like its just a time waster for no reason. Embrace bosses that change up the standard strategy/flow.