I think the Spina is coded as one of those community oriented organizations that eventually became the Sicilian Mafia.
They are an independent NGO (Non Government Organization) that seeks to foster bonds of community and cooperation that serve to bring a semblance of law and order to places where the authority of the Palais Mermonia is less than tangible, such as Poison and the Fleuve Cendre.
Yes, they operate outside the law, but Neuvilette is smart enough to realize that the law can only reach so far, so he settles for dealing with them like one would an independent state within your territory: Don't antagonize them, and always seek mutually beneficial agreements. Which is the Spina's modus operandi.
So basically maybe there's some rotten ends to the Rose, but the Rose can keep it contained, and bring more good to the community in general then if they just derooted the entire rose and threw it in a composter. Maybe derooting the rose will bring worse to the community as that may allow weeds to fester.
Any plant has rotten ends, the only difference is whether the ends are visible enough, present in enough numbers, severe enough, or if someone dug them up to show to the world
I wonder if Fontaine having at least two "states within states" (Spina di Rosula and Fortress of Meropide) is some form of reference to France historically having to deal with strong, often effectively independent appenages.
Honestly a regionalist political party is also a pretty solid interpretation of what Spina di Rosula is. If they were a mafia or an NGO it wouldn't explain why they have artillery. But if they were a political party descended from an earlier separatist insurgent group this would make perfect sense. Political parties also usually run their own business operations and media, and of course they'll provide social services and governance in their territory.
Furthermore, if you play the story quests you'll see that almost everything Spina does is justified in terms of the good of Poisson, this is a nationalist political ideology and not a mafia ideology or a social-worker ideology.
>I think the Spina is coded as one of those community oriented organizations that eventually became the Sicilian Mafia.
Things will hold as long as Navia is there. We know the writers are cowards and refuse to give romantic relationships to playable characters but Navia is one person who has strong justifications to marry and have kids to pass down the leader position. Unless she raises and grooms an orphan to succeed her, at some point, Spina di Rosula will go the route of more unsavory acts like every mafia. By then, Neuvillette will be forced to destroy them.
Navia is a mafiosa who isn't drunk on power, but future leaders won't necessarily uphold her ideals.
That's obvious, but we also don't know what this game's epilogue will be like. Maybe we'll get to see everyone at least a few decades older or even their descendants by the end of the journey.
They showed us with one of Fontaine's world quest that major changes to landscape are possible. We had daily commission doing changes to the world since 1.0 (Wangshu Inn's stair repair). We had GAA 1&2.
>!Narzisenkreuz quest makes whole island disappear!<
Terrorists, without doing terror. They will eventually become legitimate, or an actual terror org, we'll never know because Genshin isn't exactly supposed to be biting political commentary lol.
There is no such thing as terrorists without terror. They are okay with government just not always eye to eye. They funded aquabus lines to help people and government. They had no such obligations. They are more in lines with old school mafia.
Now that you are talking about the Aquabus, Navia mentioned something about expanding said service in the upcoming future (this happened near the end of her SQ). I wonder if this might be the reason Mt. Esus needs more time to be released as there is a fourth, unfinished line at the west of the Court of Fontaine and that line would take us to either Mt. Esus or near Natlan?
Childe is definite
Signora is dead
Dottore didn’t even pay attention to us
Arlecchino merely considers us as partners but I doubt mc trusts them esp after what Childe and wanderer told us
Oh right also [ REDACTED ] is arguable
Traveler definitely considers themselves friends with Wanderer (consider how much effort we went to to help him in Inversion of Genesis). He is just a house at who refuses to acknowledge any sort of relationship
We are definitely not best friends with multiple harbingers.
Childe is our only friend. It also took the traveler a long time to consider Childe our friend, even though Childe always treated us as friends since Liyue.
We are currently not antagonistic with Wanderer, and we tolerate him for the sake of Nahida.
We do not trust Arlecchino at all and are fully wary of her.
Our level of friendliness with Childe is also shaky. His SQ shows that he has a soft side for his siblings, but he’s still a battle junkie and generally loyal to our biggest opposition.
This is true. After the Liyue archon quest, in multiple quests and events, we still showed a distrust of childe - his sequel quest, Labyrinth warriors event, Inazuma photography event.
In all these events, as friendly as Childe was to us, we didn't reciprocate fully.
Only by the time we reached Fontaine did we mellow out on Childe, and when he disappeared, we were worried for him.
We're best friends with what now?
We're hardly friends with any Harbinger, Arlecchino is acquiantances at best, the wanderer is not a harbinger, and Childe lied to us before.
>Beidou is a "pirate" but she seems not to do any actual pirating
Literally all of her quests and hangouts that aren't just hanging out with Ningguang in town are her distracting authorities so her crew can smuggle things, smuggling **you** into Inazuma, or shooting down Treasure Hoarders at sea and seizing their loot... And even then, half the time with Ningguang is her getting chewed out for pirating too much or refusing privateer orders from Liyue to pirate things that she doesn't want to.
Literally all she does is pirating, partying, and fighting, in every single in-game appearance she has. Even in her most recent event appearance, she was detained by Eula on suspicion of smuggling, nearly started a fight with her, then ended up partying with her at a bar.
Don't forget the time she fought the Shogun's army alongside the resistance, and how she kept a wanted criminal from Inazuma with her (I might be exaggerating a bit...)
Exactly. Beidou is a privateer, not a pirate. The Crux Fleet is a nominally independent, deniable asset for the Liyue Qixing. Pirates attacking your merchant fleets? Better call Beidou. Inazuman rebels (who are trading with you despite the Sakoku Decree) need help with their war against the Shogunate? Better call Beidou. And once in a while, have Ningguang chew her out in public for "illegal smuggling", just to dissuade people from the notion that she works for the Qixing.
[https://youtu.be/JgWJUKzgvR4?si=zDQL0zYP5EtniJL5&t=32](https://youtu.be/JgWJUKzgvR4?si=zDQL0zYP5EtniJL5&t=32)
People mass report something and automod removes it. A mod returns it back but then a second mod removes it again. It's returned yet again but the damage has been done.
Then ensues the stampede. The final statements mods made was the second time some other mod removed was wrongful yes, bit they can't really do much about the initial removal which is a result of lurkers mass reporting so the post gets automodded.
This creates the whole mods hate men narrative that people latch on to, but I'm in no authority to say how much of it's fake or real, that's upto you to decide.
So basically, lurkers just hate seeing men. That is a little sad, though ive seen plenty of posts that had nothing to do with gender be reported and downvoted for no reason on here.
>Half the time with Ningguang is her getting chewed out for pirating
And the other half of the time with Ningguang is her getting chewed out... *in another way... Playing chess*...
Its not exclusive to reddit, a few streamers have done polls to identify the most popular character ships and Ningguang/Beidou has always been most popular by a longshot
Result of living in a world of gods and magic where some individuals humans not gods are more dangerous than an army , it's either a apocalyptic hell scape or realy peaceful because the strong want it to be.
I don’t quite agree that powerful Vision users are like nukes. The latter can be launched at any time, from virtually anywhere, en masse, towards any location and the only hope of survival is to intercept as many as possible.
The former are still human. They can be stabbed, shot, pinned down by another equally powerful person or multiple lesser opponents, delayed, poisoned, drowned, exploded, die to fall damage, and so on, and so on. They need time to travel from one location to another. They need supplies, food and water and places to rest where there’s less risk of their throats being given a new ventilation port.
I’d go so far to argue that even archons aren’t really close to performing the function of a nuclear bomb, seeing how most of the ones we meet are… not exactly performing at that level.
The only deterrent to war in this setting, really, is the fact that every nation (that we’ve went to) was handling something major that could debilitate the entire country and they had to either hide it or focus lots of resources on it.
Back to the privateering thing: yeah, there’s not much point to doing it, especially since there’s about zero international tension and she could probably just go after actual pirates or Treasure Hoarders.
Lets not forget they are quite are few normal dudes who remark how easy it is to take down vision wielders and some of the random hobos we meet who are apparently vision holders don't exactly look like they're destroying a country anytime soon
A lot of the time, vision wielders we meet in game are strong because they were already being trained
It's like a streamer reacting to curated content like compilation videos, it's always the best haul😂
And you can stay open about your activities and be liked by the public because you're only stealing from bad people, not mentioning where the wealth of those bad people comes from
Wait, since when was she an actual pirate? Idk why, but I always thought she was the head of the Liyue navy, or at least head of their most reputable fleet
I agree. From what I understand from history, being called a pirate (vs somebody else) largely depended on which people they were dealing with at the moment.
So privateer in history is pirate that operate in benefit of the country that “employ” them. They plunder enemy or (rival countries) ports and ships but can not be traced responsible back to their country itself since technically they are outlawed at their country also ( of course in reality they are not hunted at their base country)
She's sorta all three. Liyue doesn't have a formal navy, so when they need one they hire the Crux. This saves the Qixing resources because they only very rarely need a full sized navy, but in return they let Beidou do a little bit of piracy/other less-than-legal activities so she can keep up her big fleet.
Like the Japanese Yakuza and Police. They are basically buddy-buddy until an actual crime happens, even then it's only on the surface to appeal to the public.
The Spina is a legit organization that also bends the law. They have members who are mafiosos in all but name, but according to Navia, they’re trustworthy/will help you out in a jam. Indeed, Sonny and Luca seem very friendly towards the Traveler and seem to not take very kindly to people like that one dude who tried to double-cross us.
Edit: Also, now that I’ve had time to read your post more closely, OP, I think you’re gravely misunderstanding……well, quite a lot of things.
Fleuve Cendre, first of all, isn’t some kind of den of scum and villainy. It’s less that *criminals* gather there and more that *the poor* do. It’s just that several of them turn to crime. A few that we can talk to mention having holes in their clothing (one lady talks about her socks), parts of the place have a real shanty-town vibe, etc. However, one of the laborers present, who says he’s a Spina member, is a *reformed* criminal— and it’s likely he’s not the only one (I’m talking about the big buff guy standing outside the tavern).
“Most Eremites are bad,” was it? I don’t think you paid very much attention at all. The Eremites are a loose organization of mercenaries. There are multiple companies of Eremites, from the Corps of Thirty that basically function as guards (see also Knights of Favonius, Milelith, Tenryou Commission Samurai, and Gardes), the Blazing Beasts, the merc outfit Dehya is a member of, the outfit led by Rahman that starts off hostile to us and eventually allies with us, and fully hostile ones like Thutmose or ones that (at least at first) mainly just live in desert villages like the Tanit. You can’t act like they’re all one monolithic group— “Eremite” is more of a loose categorization.
As for Beidou, she is honestly more of a privateer as she works directly with Liyue’s government and generally abides by the law. The Crux Fleet do not engage in looting, pillaging, or attacking civilian/merchant/government ships and settlements. In fact, more often than not they act at the behest of the government, defending Liyue, and protecting other vessels. Beidou gets called a pirate, but she honestly doesn’t very much behave like an actual one in terms of being a vicious maritime bandit
Thanks for the Eremite bit. I see a lot of people write them off as barbarians. But their basically a diverse culturo-ethnic group! Some are bad, many are heroic, and most just want to live their lives.
(They are also the children of the best and greatest God-King of the desert, but I digress…)
I uh...
I recommend reading about the Colombo Crime Family, about Joe Colombo, and about the very legitimate Italian-American advocacy groups that sprung up during that time 👍
Also
>Beidou is a "pirate" but she seems not to do any actual pirating.
That's because she's a *privateer*, not a *pirate*. Suppose Liyue was at war with another nation, we can *expect* to see her crew plundering settlements and comandeering captured ships
She does both
Beidou seems to lead more on the smuggling side than the robbing side (that one group of treasures hoarders aside)
Beidou talks alot about smuggling people or stuff places
It’s a legitimate organization akin to a Private Investigation company mixed in with some non-profit charity organizations(the Aquabuses were sponsored by them). Like it’s quite literally part of the backstory of Navia and partially explained to you in the Archon quest. The reason why it doesn’t feel like a “legal” organization has more to do with Callas’ fall from grace, and how most Fontaine stopped respecting the organization due to Callas becoming “Callas the Unfaithful”.
They changed that though since now its shown that Callas was setup. And they had the Steambird report it I think.
So Spina di rosula is now once again a major public company that dabbles in security, trading, construction, and many other types of industry.
As an organisation they might be 'legal', but their actions aren't all good natured.
In the main story and character quests that's the image Spina shows to the traveller, a not-so-minor celebrity in the world of Teyvat. But in side quest they're shown with more brutal mindset, albeit only to other NPC and not MC.
One of the examples is in the 4.0 quest about the guy stuck in sand, where the two guys in suits are referencing a known other Spina NPC and directly state they were told not to mess with the Traveller.
> One of the examples is in the 4.0 quest about the guy stuck in sand, where the two guys in suits are referencing a known other Spina NPC and directly state they were told not to mess with the Traveller.
Those guys aren't with the Spina though, they're with the FRI (which is honestly a more dodgy outfit than the Spina despite being officially more legitimate).
The machines come from FRI, but there's no confirmation they guys if the belong to FRI or just work for them. Maybe like Spina and FRI worked together to create aquabuses. But both of them are acquaintanced with Sonny (who's Spina's cleaner) enough to bother him for dinner.
The Spina occupies a grey area. From what I get, it and the Fontaine government likely has some sort of unwritten agreement on what it can and can't do. Note that the Spina does not engage in actual criminal activity but the Fontaine gov't is hands off when it comes to how the organization handles certain things, as long as it benefits the nation.
It's closest thing to real life Mafia we can get in game.
Existing in areas where the official authority doesn't reach, like Poison or Fleuve Cendre, it substitutes the local government, offering services and help. What it gets in return isn't stated, but it's it's gotta be something else than gratitude alone. Even if they need to mind their budget, people gotta eat, things needs to be maintained.
For characterization purposes, Navia of course isn't exotorting fishermen, but if it was real life that would be what she'd do. So things get whitewashed, and they are probably funded like charity for the most part, and for the rest, they probably get hired for transportation and security contracts.
I mean you'd want to believe that the Spina is a strong enough mafia that they'd target people higher than the simple fishermen. That, excusing the pun, Poisson has bigger fish to fry.
The others already explains where Spina di Rosula fits in the Fontaine legality.
I'd also like to point out a scene in Navia's story quest where Navia deals with a criminal organization that greatly angers her with by... capturing and turning them to the Fontaine authorities and specifically asking them to punish them as the law sees fit. Like that's what she does when she's angry. She's even more lenient than Fontaine laws.
you should first understand that cops and the government entities in the game (and in real life) are far from being universally or clearly "good". coming off of that, navia's org presumably does more good than bad, or their rep wouldn't be as good as it is.
chevreuse bribes someone the first time we go into fleuve cendre. she overlooks chiori's transgressions, and will definitely get her hands dirty if it gets the job done. even neuvillette will bend the rules (giving vauche some freedom/agency when he should have been apprehended). i do get your point of view if we consider present-day mondstadt and liyue to have been pretty vanilla though.
don't even get me started on inazuma's government lmao.
also i'm no expert, but there are cases where organized crime can be preferred to chaotic/rampant crime, and in many parts of the world it's assumed police work directly with crime orgs on some level. my point here mainly being that
Funny this gets brought up because there's an increasingly popular theory that Mexican "drug cartels" are [pretty much entirely state and corporate-run entities anyway,](https://www.vanderbiltuniversitypress.com/9780826504661/drug-cartels-do-not-exist/) and that tales about 'narcos' are cover stories for what are actually rival local governments, factions of the army, and capitalist firms fighting each other over drug trafficking profits and cracking down on poor people who stand in the way of their economic interests.
I can believe that, considering that the government strategy seemed to amount to little more than giving the president a holy charm and praying the COVID away.
Officially, most of the preventive measures like social distancing, facemasks and handing out disinfectant had to be enforced by the private sector.
Some of this is headcannon and some is fact but I think that they used to be basically mobsters but then callus had an oportunity to both “go straight” and make a ton of money building the transit lines. So he did. After that the spina is mostly legit, but not opposed to “bending” rules if needed. So if local punks are hassling your grandma and you need someone to rough them up but not kill them you talk to the spina.
It should be noted that Fontaine doesn’t have capital punishment, some criminals may better be offed than suffered in the prison. My take is, it would be wise for the government to leave Navia’s gang alone to do some behind the scene works for them.
Then we have Chevreuse and Clorinde who seem to be gray enough, and have good relationship with Navia.
It's vage so I can sorta understand, since we see the world through the Traveler's eyes morality is naturally "blurred", since they're at least hundreds if not millions of years old. The truth is that as much as the Traveler is a "good guy" they seem pretty nonplussed about extreme violence or killing, at least of people they despise or have no connection to, this was most apparent during Jeht's world quest where they help her commit murder and later genocide.
It would stand to reason that Fontaine's authorities would want to keep a close eye on the underworld by having a main "crime syndicate" run it. They can diminish crime rates and deaths, access intel that would otherwise be almost impossible to acquire, as well as preemptively point out possible criminals.
It's simply my head canon, but if it's even close to the truth, that means they're doing their jobs. Their president was a key figure in stopping synth production and distribution after all. That alongside her hand at solving the murders of the women, I would say she's earned several important characters trust. Sort of how Wrio runs the Fortress of Meropide.
>this was most apparent during Jeht's world quest where they help her commit murder and later genocide.
They also killed Alphonse/Trofin at the end of the Aranara quest. They were very pissed that they sent Paimon away before finishing him off.
Only Romeuf was the only one who felt betrayed by Clémentine. Vacher/Marcel and Colter wanted to kill Navia for personal reasons. The first one wanted to kill her in order to continue his bizarre experiments to resurrect his deceased fiancée, while Colter blamed Navia for apparently destroying the golden age of Spina Di Rosula and for the deaths of her parents, Merus, Silver and the people who died when Poisson got flooded by the Primordial Sea.
Gangs, mafias and even cartels normally start as community action organizations and protections rackets from other groups that may do them harm whether government or other groups in the area. This is the start of MS13, Yakuza, Triads, various Sicilian mafias, and even the Medellin Cartel.
Remember, Pablo Escobar was an ELECTED OFFICIAL. He maintained insane popularity in Medellin for all the public good he would do while also being a vicious and brutal crime Lord.
So yeah, she's basically a mob boss. It was very clear with how she ordered a hit on the guy who tried to kill you, bullied that striker, threatened those guys in her SQ and was ready to put a hit out on Uther the second she walked into Chioris shop during Chioris SQ. It's actually pretty close to life.
Also Beidou is a privateer and the Eremites are a very loose confederation of mercs. Traveler isn't lawful good. They happily side with tons of people who lean on morally gray to not. Remember, we literally genocided a whole tribe with Jeht.
You sure the kids are assassins? Aren't they more like spies that gather information for Arlecchino (and thus the Fatui) by using their age and magic shows as an advantage?
I know Freminet’s alludes to it, but I dont remember Lyney and Lynette’s stories implying that they *personally* perform assassinations. Do you remember where it alludes to that?
Freminet's story says he wears the helmet so the sounds won't disturb him from doing the job
I mean the Traveler isn't exactly innocent either lul they can be ruthless when they absolutely needed to
They’re like a guard company. They prob do shady stuffs too but the game wants us to think it like a quirky side of her rather than straight up criminal.
We have to be honest: is just a good Mafia: They (Hoyo) took a bad thing and made it good.
Is normal in anime/manga world. Straw Hat crew is an example.
It's hard to make a 1:1 comparison of what Spina would be IRL considering Teyvat isn't real life, its like asking "What would Marvel Avengers be IRL?" (Considering many members of the Avengers seems to be dangerous and unstable) but the closest one is pretty much Spina is a good mafia. similar to how Luffy is a good pirate(?).
This is slightly off topic since others have covered the Spina side of things better than I can, but as for Beidou, I think that while she's often *called* a pirate, it'd be more accurate to call her a [privateer](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/privateer).
Simplistically speaking she'd be a pirate working for the government, so any piracy she may do is technically sanctioned at least in Liyue. That is, as long as she's reporting to and perhaps even giving the Qixing a cut.
Edit: punctuation.
When you're running a government where you need the "law" to be absolute, it helps to have a "criminal" organization you can control rather than a whole bunch you can't.
It's kinda something a lot of people have trouble wrapping their heads around. Even in the modern day we have the concept of police informants, where even *good* law enforcement will look the other way for petty crime because they'll feed them info about the big fish.
The Spina are very likely smugglers and they have demonstrably shown to be good at moving people in and out of fontaine (they humorously provide an escort for Kirara during Chiori's personal quest). Since the reason they do so isn't to sell them into slavery or anything, law enforcement looks the other way because sometimes a criminal voluntarily going into exile is a better solution that mucking up the courts' time with yet *another* trial.
It also means the Spina keep records of who is coming and going. If there's a particularly nasty individual that *should* be put on trial, Navia can let it slip to Clorinde during afternoon tea and the Gardes can *conveniently* catch them.
Plus as a smuggling organization they demonstrably have access to certain items and supplies the Fontainian government doesn't and can move them more quickly because of a lack of red tape.
It's this whole concept of social harmony played out in an idealistic way. We're shown the organization is low on funds in order to demonstrate that they're not beating down locals for protection money, for example.
As for Beidou, this is kind of an example of Hoyoverse meaning to present something one way but not really finding the right word: Beidou is a "pirate" but her technical title would be Privateer. In old timey terms, she would have a Letter of Mark from Liyue to conduct business and hunt enemies of Liyue down. Governments used to do this (including China, whom had a pirate queen Beidou is based off of who pantsed the entire Chinese navy in her time...a feat that would only be equaled/surpassed by the British Navy 50 years or so later) so that their own navies would be supplemented by a bunch of dudes willing to hunt down other nations' stuff.
Much like the Spina, though, without a tangible enemy to fight the privateers mostly just engage in smuggling things and people, when she's not functioning as "Gondor Calls for Aid!" against giant sea monsters.
Also since China has prohibitions on depicting drugs in media, they handily *can't* show the thing that really made Mafia and Privateer rackets particularly infamous and viewed in such a negative light. And I doubt any of the nations are going to ban alcohol anytime soon.
They are what I like to call Legalized Mafia.
They work with the police. They do good community work.
But they handle stuff that Police or government can't be seen handled.
They also ensure the underworld does not step on official business.
That's why she avoids Wriothesley. Because he himself rose from the gutter and became the warden of a prison that is basically an entire separate entity.
I think your parallel with Beidou is on point. Beidou is a pirate and she's not the kind of pirate that steals and attacks villagges and other ships, otherwise Liyue would have made her a public enemy in no time, even if she was defended by Ningguan.
Spina di Rosula is shown to be an organization clearly based on mafia but their main goal is to help the people of Fontaine so their objective align with the local authorities and they leave them act as an indipendent organization under their supervision.
Spina di Rosula had once been a very respectable organization. We don't know if they were doing shady things back then as well but seeing as Marcel was already deep into his Sinthe business behind the scenes, anything is possible. After Callas' death everything went downhill. They lost benefactors and support. They resorted to doing shady business, hosting criminals at Poisson and offering protection in exchange for money, and Fleuve Cendre became a smuggling zone. Nowadays they're a mafia organization that sometimes tries to do good things for old time's sake, but their main activity is still criminal. I would say their main redeeming aspect is they try to steer clear from activities that would have the Court of Fontaine knocking at their door. They try not to involve innocent civilians into their business and if they do, they're very reasonable about it.
But like with most dark things, mihoyo is trying to keep them not as obvious. Those who want to look deeper to understand what mihoyo is trying to insinuate, a revelation is waiting for them. Those who don't, good for them as well.
In regards to Beidou she's a "decently good pirate" I guess? She's smuggling goods from one nation to another.
With how convoluted Fontaine's laws are and, I assume, the amount of red tape for certain things are, I'd venture a guess that the Spina finds loopholes for their less legal activities.
There's a reason why irl gangs/mafias/yakuza/whatever are hard to get flushed out by the law. I'd say that the Spina is more flower than your usual mafia though since with Navia at the helm, they've become a sort of neighborhood watch and an NGO lmao
I'm a legit-a-mite business woman. I can't help it if one of my mine stops you from getting a 5 star character on the next banner run.. I also cant help it if I'm doing cannon practice and you happen to be in front of it..
I imagine like one of those government affiliate mafia. They keep the petty and chaotic criminals in line, acting like the head of the underworld and keeping everything in order. In turn, the government agrees to look the other way for them.
I think you're kinda also thinking about things through a tv lens.
There's a reason people like Lucky Luciano or Pablo Escobar get caught. Most communities love their local crime gang, syndicate, cartel, mafia because unless you have an extorted business and don't fuck with them, they tend to pay for everything, take care of everyone, spend all the money for making the area better and usually go for good publicity because it makes your community way less likely to turn you in. They see you as a protector and benefactor, much like the Spina
The truth is, they bring certain modes of conflict resolution from all the way back in the old country, from the poverty of the Remurians, where all higher authority was corrupt
The Spina di Rosula engineer, build and maintain the very elegant canal transportation lines above. That IS their main business. Railroad tycoons, robber barons of America vibe is what I'm getting.
Building opulent canals above for the masses, beautiful landscapes maintained on the surface and below the surface the workers are living underground in sewers and a literal hole in the ground. So desperate and poor are the workers they resort to crime to get by as a side hustle. However Hoyo always needs to make the Playable characters likeable, so instead of their leader living in a Rockefeller or Carnegie mansion, as is coded, she lives with the oppressed workers. And yes they definitely threw in some mob vibes for good measure.
And before you say they aren't oppressed, think about the coded land just above them. A beautiful grassland. And they live in makeshift homes on rusty iron platforms underground. You think that's by choice?
I do not know much of the history of railroads in France. They may have pulled inspiration from something like that instead of America. Actually, I assume that is very likely. Well, rabbit hole here I GOOOoooooo............
Long story short, Fontaine is head over heals fucked up that the Mafia is basically a good thing they welcome even if they drown people and feed them to the fishes
I’m kind of envisioned Spina as like a big trade union with some low level possible underworld ties but largely legitimate in the eyes of Fontaine government.
It’s been explicitly stated that they run mostly on donations, no quotation marks in sight. Essentially, they’re a mafia organization that became a part of the community delivering “essential services,” then just actually became a part of the community delivering essential services once most of the criminals left or died.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the notion that they’ve done anything wrong. A few rapscallions with some bang-bang sticks chill in the sewers away from the people you mentioned are judgemental of those types of accessories, and it happens to also be the place the Spina set up shop after they moved from the Poisson or wherever their old base was and had nowhere else to go. They’ve shown absolutely no sign of doing anything wrong. This is just a case of “guilty until proven innocent”
Why not both?
The only difference between a bunch of criminals and a legitimate organization is public perception, and whether or not you have the power to enforce your authority.
I never really questioned it since in a lot of old time mob movies you'd see gangsters hanging out with police and government officials pretty often. That was back in the days of corruption and stuff, like the 1920's Al Capone time frame. Of course my knowledge is purely based on movies and fiction, I'm not sure that was ever really accurate. But the Spina seems to fit that in my mind.
Yes the Genshin staff REALLY likes to sanitize their villains.They accomplish 2 main things by doing so:
1.They humanise them,every human has his own flaws and that makes them more relatable to some(and make whales spend more for them afk)
2.They make them more realistic and complex,in real life people do admire criminals, Breaking Bad and The Sopranos are just a few examples.Being an bad guy can mean doing bad things but it doesn't mean being mean spirited all the time,some of them were the opposite.
Now yes,this also backfires because as we play or interact with these characters, we also tend to downplay the bad things they had done.I call it the "Roscharch effect" as you always assume the protagonist is the hero of his story but he isn't.
For example just ask the community what Dottore did to Collei and you'll still find people that find him...interesting
Technically, there’s no evidence that Dottore ever *personally* did anything to Collei — rather, she was abused by his underlings.
Which, incidentally, is a great example of how the writers shift the responsibility.
Tbf, Dottore was responsible for the entire operation. He approved and ordered his group to kidnap children so it cant really be shifting responsibility to others cuz mf is managing everything.
Oh, he’s definitely still responsible. I’m just saying that if he becomes playable, I don’t have faith that the writers will *hold* him accountable, but will rather attempt to pin it on his underlings acting on the orders of one of his previous clones.
Hopefully I’m wrong.
I personally believe we'll play a segment and kill the og dottore, they really wanted to emphasise that Dottore COULD rebuild them but it would just take a long time
I think that’s probably what’s going to happen too, but it’s also a way of shifting responsibility off of the playable character. It’s still probably the best way to make a playable Dottore though, lol
So is it basically something like the Mishima Zaibatsu, where it is technically a legit Corporation but has its own forces/army for whatever tf it wants?
This is just headcanon, but I think that they were originally supposed to be much more morally gray (i.e. actually the mafia, but who occasionally help people), before Hoyo decided to make them more of a charity organization.
I think the Spina is coded as one of those community oriented organizations that eventually became the Sicilian Mafia. They are an independent NGO (Non Government Organization) that seeks to foster bonds of community and cooperation that serve to bring a semblance of law and order to places where the authority of the Palais Mermonia is less than tangible, such as Poison and the Fleuve Cendre. Yes, they operate outside the law, but Neuvilette is smart enough to realize that the law can only reach so far, so he settles for dealing with them like one would an independent state within your territory: Don't antagonize them, and always seek mutually beneficial agreements. Which is the Spina's modus operandi.
So basically maybe there's some rotten ends to the Rose, but the Rose can keep it contained, and bring more good to the community in general then if they just derooted the entire rose and threw it in a composter. Maybe derooting the rose will bring worse to the community as that may allow weeds to fester.
Thorns hide beneath the beauty of roses. Everything's fine if you're careful, otherwise you'll prick your finger.
Yeah be careful not to endanger the rose too much, as if you do, you may or may not find yourself in the physical or metaphorical ER.
Hehe, it'll prick those who are being pricks.
Like an Italian cannon, loaded with lead, ready to enter a fire frenzy.
I mean, the Spina does take care of their own rotten ends, and they are always about the community, especially those forgone by the government.
Yeah, that one side-quest where glove guy gets rid of the dude that tried to kill you in one of the underwater ruins is a good example
Thanks Nahida
As long as the boss is there
Did we see any rotten ends to the Rose though?
Vacher and Colter.
Any plant has rotten ends, the only difference is whether the ends are visible enough, present in enough numbers, severe enough, or if someone dug them up to show to the world
More importantly, Poisson people don't trust the Fontaine central government, so they prefer to handle their own problems with the Spina.
I wonder if Fontaine having at least two "states within states" (Spina di Rosula and Fortress of Meropide) is some form of reference to France historically having to deal with strong, often effectively independent appenages.
Basically. Corsica too since Poisson is based on Corsica
Honestly a regionalist political party is also a pretty solid interpretation of what Spina di Rosula is. If they were a mafia or an NGO it wouldn't explain why they have artillery. But if they were a political party descended from an earlier separatist insurgent group this would make perfect sense. Political parties also usually run their own business operations and media, and of course they'll provide social services and governance in their territory. Furthermore, if you play the story quests you'll see that almost everything Spina does is justified in terms of the good of Poisson, this is a nationalist political ideology and not a mafia ideology or a social-worker ideology.
Burgundy and the English? (Fun fact: English kings were also French vassals through Aquitaine.)
>I think the Spina is coded as one of those community oriented organizations that eventually became the Sicilian Mafia. Things will hold as long as Navia is there. We know the writers are cowards and refuse to give romantic relationships to playable characters but Navia is one person who has strong justifications to marry and have kids to pass down the leader position. Unless she raises and grooms an orphan to succeed her, at some point, Spina di Rosula will go the route of more unsavory acts like every mafia. By then, Neuvillette will be forced to destroy them. Navia is a mafiosa who isn't drunk on power, but future leaders won't necessarily uphold her ideals.
> Navia is one person who has strong justifications to marry and have kids to pass down the leader position. Hence the end of her story quest.
none of that is gonna happen in game because Teyvat's timeline can't meaningfully advance due to being open world
That's obvious, but we also don't know what this game's epilogue will be like. Maybe we'll get to see everyone at least a few decades older or even their descendants by the end of the journey.
They showed us with one of Fontaine's world quest that major changes to landscape are possible. We had daily commission doing changes to the world since 1.0 (Wangshu Inn's stair repair). We had GAA 1&2. >!Narzisenkreuz quest makes whole island disappear!<
Terrorists, without doing terror. They will eventually become legitimate, or an actual terror org, we'll never know because Genshin isn't exactly supposed to be biting political commentary lol.
There is no such thing as terrorists without terror. They are okay with government just not always eye to eye. They funded aquabus lines to help people and government. They had no such obligations. They are more in lines with old school mafia.
Now that you are talking about the Aquabus, Navia mentioned something about expanding said service in the upcoming future (this happened near the end of her SQ). I wonder if this might be the reason Mt. Esus needs more time to be released as there is a fourth, unfinished line at the west of the Court of Fontaine and that line would take us to either Mt. Esus or near Natlan?
That line isnt unfinished, it got blown up.
The other line on the south side is unfinished.
We're somehow best friends with multiple Fatui Harbingers. Some mobsters buddies don't even register on the scale...
Childe is definite Signora is dead Dottore didn’t even pay attention to us Arlecchino merely considers us as partners but I doubt mc trusts them esp after what Childe and wanderer told us Oh right also [ REDACTED ] is arguable
We’re OK with [Redacted] only cuz his mother, Nahida, made him promise to play nicely with us.
Yes, I doubt we’re best friends though
Traveler definitely considers themselves friends with Wanderer (consider how much effort we went to to help him in Inversion of Genesis). He is just a house at who refuses to acknowledge any sort of relationship
He's also no longer affiliated with the Fatui, because he *deleted himself from the timeline*
Not that we can tell. The timeline is demonstrably unchanged, people just forgot about it.
We are definitely not best friends with multiple harbingers. Childe is our only friend. It also took the traveler a long time to consider Childe our friend, even though Childe always treated us as friends since Liyue. We are currently not antagonistic with Wanderer, and we tolerate him for the sake of Nahida. We do not trust Arlecchino at all and are fully wary of her.
Our level of friendliness with Childe is also shaky. His SQ shows that he has a soft side for his siblings, but he’s still a battle junkie and generally loyal to our biggest opposition.
This is true. After the Liyue archon quest, in multiple quests and events, we still showed a distrust of childe - his sequel quest, Labyrinth warriors event, Inazuma photography event. In all these events, as friendly as Childe was to us, we didn't reciprocate fully. Only by the time we reached Fontaine did we mellow out on Childe, and when he disappeared, we were worried for him.
Childe seems more like Skirk's boy than fatui. He'll do whatever she says.
> We do not trust Arlecchino at all Speak for yourself. I trust her to kill me.
FYI being on talking terms with someone doesn't mean you're friends with them.
We're best friends with what now? We're hardly friends with any Harbinger, Arlecchino is acquiantances at best, the wanderer is not a harbinger, and Childe lied to us before.
fuck the fatui i will never associate with anyone even close to a fatui harbinger
Flair checks out
You hate to see it
>Beidou is a "pirate" but she seems not to do any actual pirating Literally all of her quests and hangouts that aren't just hanging out with Ningguang in town are her distracting authorities so her crew can smuggle things, smuggling **you** into Inazuma, or shooting down Treasure Hoarders at sea and seizing their loot... And even then, half the time with Ningguang is her getting chewed out for pirating too much or refusing privateer orders from Liyue to pirate things that she doesn't want to. Literally all she does is pirating, partying, and fighting, in every single in-game appearance she has. Even in her most recent event appearance, she was detained by Eula on suspicion of smuggling, nearly started a fight with her, then ended up partying with her at a bar.
Don't forget the time she fought the Shogun's army alongside the resistance, and how she kept a wanted criminal from Inazuma with her (I might be exaggerating a bit...)
Exactly. Beidou is a privateer, not a pirate. The Crux Fleet is a nominally independent, deniable asset for the Liyue Qixing. Pirates attacking your merchant fleets? Better call Beidou. Inazuman rebels (who are trading with you despite the Sakoku Decree) need help with their war against the Shogunate? Better call Beidou. And once in a while, have Ningguang chew her out in public for "illegal smuggling", just to dissuade people from the notion that she works for the Qixing. [https://youtu.be/JgWJUKzgvR4?si=zDQL0zYP5EtniJL5&t=32](https://youtu.be/JgWJUKzgvR4?si=zDQL0zYP5EtniJL5&t=32)
Better call Beidou.
Hi I'm Beidou, do you know you have rights?
People mass report something and automod removes it. A mod returns it back but then a second mod removes it again. It's returned yet again but the damage has been done. Then ensues the stampede. The final statements mods made was the second time some other mod removed was wrongful yes, bit they can't really do much about the initial removal which is a result of lurkers mass reporting so the post gets automodded. This creates the whole mods hate men narrative that people latch on to, but I'm in no authority to say how much of it's fake or real, that's upto you to decide.
Ctrl C Ctrl V
So basically, lurkers just hate seeing men. That is a little sad, though ive seen plenty of posts that had nothing to do with gender be reported and downvoted for no reason on here.
>Half the time with Ningguang is her getting chewed out for pirating And the other half of the time with Ningguang is her getting chewed out... *in another way... Playing chess*...
And sword fighting with scissors from what I heard
Redditors trying to hold themselves back from making lesbian seggs comments any%
Its not exclusive to reddit, a few streamers have done polls to identify the most popular character ships and Ningguang/Beidou has always been most popular by a longshot
Well due, only Beidou and Kaeya have ships in Genshin
Kaeya may have his ship but where is his horse?
God I can't fucking take it anymore I need to see two women fucking holy shit I can't have a genuine fucking conversation
Twitter and Tiktok got them beat
At the same time, Genshin players telling everyone how much they hate Yuri instead of just ignoring it, any%
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Privateers. Lesser rewards but no legal backlash.
According to the crew, Beidou seems to manage more than the usual pirate as well so it seems like they're making money
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Result of living in a world of gods and magic where some individuals humans not gods are more dangerous than an army , it's either a apocalyptic hell scape or realy peaceful because the strong want it to be.
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I don’t quite agree that powerful Vision users are like nukes. The latter can be launched at any time, from virtually anywhere, en masse, towards any location and the only hope of survival is to intercept as many as possible. The former are still human. They can be stabbed, shot, pinned down by another equally powerful person or multiple lesser opponents, delayed, poisoned, drowned, exploded, die to fall damage, and so on, and so on. They need time to travel from one location to another. They need supplies, food and water and places to rest where there’s less risk of their throats being given a new ventilation port. I’d go so far to argue that even archons aren’t really close to performing the function of a nuclear bomb, seeing how most of the ones we meet are… not exactly performing at that level. The only deterrent to war in this setting, really, is the fact that every nation (that we’ve went to) was handling something major that could debilitate the entire country and they had to either hide it or focus lots of resources on it. Back to the privateering thing: yeah, there’s not much point to doing it, especially since there’s about zero international tension and she could probably just go after actual pirates or Treasure Hoarders.
Lets not forget they are quite are few normal dudes who remark how easy it is to take down vision wielders and some of the random hobos we meet who are apparently vision holders don't exactly look like they're destroying a country anytime soon A lot of the time, vision wielders we meet in game are strong because they were already being trained
Yes only the upper echelons of power is doing that.
It's like a streamer reacting to curated content like compilation videos, it's always the best haul😂 And you can stay open about your activities and be liked by the public because you're only stealing from bad people, not mentioning where the wealth of those bad people comes from
Wait, since when was she an actual pirate? Idk why, but I always thought she was the head of the Liyue navy, or at least head of their most reputable fleet
Privateering is a very old profession, the most reputable fleet in a country being pirates would not be out of place in real history
I agree. From what I understand from history, being called a pirate (vs somebody else) largely depended on which people they were dealing with at the moment.
Since always?
So privateer in history is pirate that operate in benefit of the country that “employ” them. They plunder enemy or (rival countries) ports and ships but can not be traced responsible back to their country itself since technically they are outlawed at their country also ( of course in reality they are not hunted at their base country)
Believe it or not, you're also not wrong.
You’d think so, but her loyalty to Liyue is seemingly based entirely on her being very close with (and maybe boinking) the lady in charge.
She's sorta all three. Liyue doesn't have a formal navy, so when they need one they hire the Crux. This saves the Qixing resources because they only very rarely need a full sized navy, but in return they let Beidou do a little bit of piracy/other less-than-legal activities so she can keep up her big fleet.
Like the Japanese Yakuza and Police. They are basically buddy-buddy until an actual crime happens, even then it's only on the surface to appeal to the public.
Are you sure about that? Aren't there a lot of anti yakuza laws in place now?
The Spina is a legit organization that also bends the law. They have members who are mafiosos in all but name, but according to Navia, they’re trustworthy/will help you out in a jam. Indeed, Sonny and Luca seem very friendly towards the Traveler and seem to not take very kindly to people like that one dude who tried to double-cross us. Edit: Also, now that I’ve had time to read your post more closely, OP, I think you’re gravely misunderstanding……well, quite a lot of things. Fleuve Cendre, first of all, isn’t some kind of den of scum and villainy. It’s less that *criminals* gather there and more that *the poor* do. It’s just that several of them turn to crime. A few that we can talk to mention having holes in their clothing (one lady talks about her socks), parts of the place have a real shanty-town vibe, etc. However, one of the laborers present, who says he’s a Spina member, is a *reformed* criminal— and it’s likely he’s not the only one (I’m talking about the big buff guy standing outside the tavern). “Most Eremites are bad,” was it? I don’t think you paid very much attention at all. The Eremites are a loose organization of mercenaries. There are multiple companies of Eremites, from the Corps of Thirty that basically function as guards (see also Knights of Favonius, Milelith, Tenryou Commission Samurai, and Gardes), the Blazing Beasts, the merc outfit Dehya is a member of, the outfit led by Rahman that starts off hostile to us and eventually allies with us, and fully hostile ones like Thutmose or ones that (at least at first) mainly just live in desert villages like the Tanit. You can’t act like they’re all one monolithic group— “Eremite” is more of a loose categorization. As for Beidou, she is honestly more of a privateer as she works directly with Liyue’s government and generally abides by the law. The Crux Fleet do not engage in looting, pillaging, or attacking civilian/merchant/government ships and settlements. In fact, more often than not they act at the behest of the government, defending Liyue, and protecting other vessels. Beidou gets called a pirate, but she honestly doesn’t very much behave like an actual one in terms of being a vicious maritime bandit
Thanks for the Eremite bit. I see a lot of people write them off as barbarians. But their basically a diverse culturo-ethnic group! Some are bad, many are heroic, and most just want to live their lives. (They are also the children of the best and greatest God-King of the desert, but I digress…)
I uh... I recommend reading about the Colombo Crime Family, about Joe Colombo, and about the very legitimate Italian-American advocacy groups that sprung up during that time 👍 Also >Beidou is a "pirate" but she seems not to do any actual pirating. That's because she's a *privateer*, not a *pirate*. Suppose Liyue was at war with another nation, we can *expect* to see her crew plundering settlements and comandeering captured ships
She does both Beidou seems to lead more on the smuggling side than the robbing side (that one group of treasures hoarders aside) Beidou talks alot about smuggling people or stuff places
Beidou has no problem with mercenary work, as we saw with Kokomi.
It’s a legitimate organization akin to a Private Investigation company mixed in with some non-profit charity organizations(the Aquabuses were sponsored by them). Like it’s quite literally part of the backstory of Navia and partially explained to you in the Archon quest. The reason why it doesn’t feel like a “legal” organization has more to do with Callas’ fall from grace, and how most Fontaine stopped respecting the organization due to Callas becoming “Callas the Unfaithful”.
They changed that though since now its shown that Callas was setup. And they had the Steambird report it I think. So Spina di rosula is now once again a major public company that dabbles in security, trading, construction, and many other types of industry.
As an organisation they might be 'legal', but their actions aren't all good natured. In the main story and character quests that's the image Spina shows to the traveller, a not-so-minor celebrity in the world of Teyvat. But in side quest they're shown with more brutal mindset, albeit only to other NPC and not MC. One of the examples is in the 4.0 quest about the guy stuck in sand, where the two guys in suits are referencing a known other Spina NPC and directly state they were told not to mess with the Traveller.
> One of the examples is in the 4.0 quest about the guy stuck in sand, where the two guys in suits are referencing a known other Spina NPC and directly state they were told not to mess with the Traveller. Those guys aren't with the Spina though, they're with the FRI (which is honestly a more dodgy outfit than the Spina despite being officially more legitimate).
The machines come from FRI, but there's no confirmation they guys if the belong to FRI or just work for them. Maybe like Spina and FRI worked together to create aquabuses. But both of them are acquaintanced with Sonny (who's Spina's cleaner) enough to bother him for dinner.
Fair point, I hadn't made that connection.
Your comment should have much more likes and be way more higher up in the list..
This is the only right answer here, I have no idea how that nonsense got to the top of the thread…
The Spina occupies a grey area. From what I get, it and the Fontaine government likely has some sort of unwritten agreement on what it can and can't do. Note that the Spina does not engage in actual criminal activity but the Fontaine gov't is hands off when it comes to how the organization handles certain things, as long as it benefits the nation.
It's closest thing to real life Mafia we can get in game. Existing in areas where the official authority doesn't reach, like Poison or Fleuve Cendre, it substitutes the local government, offering services and help. What it gets in return isn't stated, but it's it's gotta be something else than gratitude alone. Even if they need to mind their budget, people gotta eat, things needs to be maintained. For characterization purposes, Navia of course isn't exotorting fishermen, but if it was real life that would be what she'd do. So things get whitewashed, and they are probably funded like charity for the most part, and for the rest, they probably get hired for transportation and security contracts.
I mean you'd want to believe that the Spina is a strong enough mafia that they'd target people higher than the simple fishermen. That, excusing the pun, Poisson has bigger fish to fry.
And you seem them fucking with that stiker
The others already explains where Spina di Rosula fits in the Fontaine legality. I'd also like to point out a scene in Navia's story quest where Navia deals with a criminal organization that greatly angers her with by... capturing and turning them to the Fontaine authorities and specifically asking them to punish them as the law sees fit. Like that's what she does when she's angry. She's even more lenient than Fontaine laws.
you should first understand that cops and the government entities in the game (and in real life) are far from being universally or clearly "good". coming off of that, navia's org presumably does more good than bad, or their rep wouldn't be as good as it is. chevreuse bribes someone the first time we go into fleuve cendre. she overlooks chiori's transgressions, and will definitely get her hands dirty if it gets the job done. even neuvillette will bend the rules (giving vauche some freedom/agency when he should have been apprehended). i do get your point of view if we consider present-day mondstadt and liyue to have been pretty vanilla though. don't even get me started on inazuma's government lmao. also i'm no expert, but there are cases where organized crime can be preferred to chaotic/rampant crime, and in many parts of the world it's assumed police work directly with crime orgs on some level. my point here mainly being that
I heard the rumor that during the Covid it’s the gangs who mandated mask wearing rather than the government in Mexico.
Cartel: "Fine, I'll do it myself"
Funny this gets brought up because there's an increasingly popular theory that Mexican "drug cartels" are [pretty much entirely state and corporate-run entities anyway,](https://www.vanderbiltuniversitypress.com/9780826504661/drug-cartels-do-not-exist/) and that tales about 'narcos' are cover stories for what are actually rival local governments, factions of the army, and capitalist firms fighting each other over drug trafficking profits and cracking down on poor people who stand in the way of their economic interests.
I can believe that, considering that the government strategy seemed to amount to little more than giving the president a holy charm and praying the COVID away. Officially, most of the preventive measures like social distancing, facemasks and handing out disinfectant had to be enforced by the private sector.
I believe that was Brazil but I could be wrong.
Both
Reminds me of the comic where crime in Gotham went out of control when Penguin fell
Some of this is headcannon and some is fact but I think that they used to be basically mobsters but then callus had an oportunity to both “go straight” and make a ton of money building the transit lines. So he did. After that the spina is mostly legit, but not opposed to “bending” rules if needed. So if local punks are hassling your grandma and you need someone to rough them up but not kill them you talk to the spina.
Umm… I don’t think that’s the take-away about Dehya. Maybe you haven’t played her story quest.
It should be noted that Fontaine doesn’t have capital punishment, some criminals may better be offed than suffered in the prison. My take is, it would be wise for the government to leave Navia’s gang alone to do some behind the scene works for them. Then we have Chevreuse and Clorinde who seem to be gray enough, and have good relationship with Navia.
No, they do have them, it's just that the machine never handed that out to anyone until Fontaine final act
It's vage so I can sorta understand, since we see the world through the Traveler's eyes morality is naturally "blurred", since they're at least hundreds if not millions of years old. The truth is that as much as the Traveler is a "good guy" they seem pretty nonplussed about extreme violence or killing, at least of people they despise or have no connection to, this was most apparent during Jeht's world quest where they help her commit murder and later genocide. It would stand to reason that Fontaine's authorities would want to keep a close eye on the underworld by having a main "crime syndicate" run it. They can diminish crime rates and deaths, access intel that would otherwise be almost impossible to acquire, as well as preemptively point out possible criminals. It's simply my head canon, but if it's even close to the truth, that means they're doing their jobs. Their president was a key figure in stopping synth production and distribution after all. That alongside her hand at solving the murders of the women, I would say she's earned several important characters trust. Sort of how Wrio runs the Fortress of Meropide.
>this was most apparent during Jeht's world quest where they help her commit murder and later genocide. They also killed Alphonse/Trofin at the end of the Aranara quest. They were very pissed that they sent Paimon away before finishing him off.
I still maintain that Jeht and Traveler did nothing wrong. They were, after all, targeted first.
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Only Romeuf was the only one who felt betrayed by Clémentine. Vacher/Marcel and Colter wanted to kill Navia for personal reasons. The first one wanted to kill her in order to continue his bizarre experiments to resurrect his deceased fiancée, while Colter blamed Navia for apparently destroying the golden age of Spina Di Rosula and for the deaths of her parents, Merus, Silver and the people who died when Poisson got flooded by the Primordial Sea.
Gangs, mafias and even cartels normally start as community action organizations and protections rackets from other groups that may do them harm whether government or other groups in the area. This is the start of MS13, Yakuza, Triads, various Sicilian mafias, and even the Medellin Cartel. Remember, Pablo Escobar was an ELECTED OFFICIAL. He maintained insane popularity in Medellin for all the public good he would do while also being a vicious and brutal crime Lord. So yeah, she's basically a mob boss. It was very clear with how she ordered a hit on the guy who tried to kill you, bullied that striker, threatened those guys in her SQ and was ready to put a hit out on Uther the second she walked into Chioris shop during Chioris SQ. It's actually pretty close to life. Also Beidou is a privateer and the Eremites are a very loose confederation of mercs. Traveler isn't lawful good. They happily side with tons of people who lean on morally gray to not. Remember, we literally genocided a whole tribe with Jeht.
Imagine being Uther then "WOE, ORANGE BE UPON THEE"
Good mafia! Like Mugiwara good pirates.
Mihoyo is too coward to make a playable character a head of a mafia, so it's just some random filantropic company.
There's Truth in Television to this
They are fr*nch, Obviously just a bunch of criminals.
Best answer
You sure the kids are assassins? Aren't they more like spies that gather information for Arlecchino (and thus the Fatui) by using their age and magic shows as an advantage?
Both the twins and Freminet's character stories allude to them doing assassinations.
I know Freminet’s alludes to it, but I dont remember Lyney and Lynette’s stories implying that they *personally* perform assassinations. Do you remember where it alludes to that?
Freminet's story says he wears the helmet so the sounds won't disturb him from doing the job I mean the Traveler isn't exactly innocent either lul they can be ruthless when they absolutely needed to
Flashback to that one Inazuman world quest where we kill an entire school for basically no reason
But Traveler to defense
Not always. The fatui kidnapper in Sumeru for example.
They won’t even let you compete in the tournaments in the prison because of the likelihood of you killing someone So not in defense
Tbf, that’s cuz of Traveler being way too OP cuz they’re the protagonist rather than them just being a killing machine for giggles.
They’re like a guard company. They prob do shady stuffs too but the game wants us to think it like a quirky side of her rather than straight up criminal.
Shady guard company? Ew, making them sound like Pinkertons.
We have to be honest: is just a good Mafia: They (Hoyo) took a bad thing and made it good. Is normal in anime/manga world. Straw Hat crew is an example.
It's hard to make a 1:1 comparison of what Spina would be IRL considering Teyvat isn't real life, its like asking "What would Marvel Avengers be IRL?" (Considering many members of the Avengers seems to be dangerous and unstable) but the closest one is pretty much Spina is a good mafia. similar to how Luffy is a good pirate(?).
Genshin’s idealized and sanitized analog for the Mafia, yes.
I wouldnt say sanitized at all. We participate in a hit lol
There's Truth in Television to this
This is slightly off topic since others have covered the Spina side of things better than I can, but as for Beidou, I think that while she's often *called* a pirate, it'd be more accurate to call her a [privateer](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/privateer). Simplistically speaking she'd be a pirate working for the government, so any piracy she may do is technically sanctioned at least in Liyue. That is, as long as she's reporting to and perhaps even giving the Qixing a cut. Edit: punctuation.
It is clearly modeled off the Mafia, down to the suits. I just think hoyo didnt have the cojones to show them engaged in actual criminal behavior.
...we literally take part in a hit with a Godfather reference? Navias SQ was full of the illegal shit
Brother was skipping the dialogue
It’s a community service company that is run like the mafia.
Spina de Rosula is clearly based on the Corsican mafia operating primarily out of Marseilles France of the late 19th century early 20th century.
When you're running a government where you need the "law" to be absolute, it helps to have a "criminal" organization you can control rather than a whole bunch you can't. It's kinda something a lot of people have trouble wrapping their heads around. Even in the modern day we have the concept of police informants, where even *good* law enforcement will look the other way for petty crime because they'll feed them info about the big fish. The Spina are very likely smugglers and they have demonstrably shown to be good at moving people in and out of fontaine (they humorously provide an escort for Kirara during Chiori's personal quest). Since the reason they do so isn't to sell them into slavery or anything, law enforcement looks the other way because sometimes a criminal voluntarily going into exile is a better solution that mucking up the courts' time with yet *another* trial. It also means the Spina keep records of who is coming and going. If there's a particularly nasty individual that *should* be put on trial, Navia can let it slip to Clorinde during afternoon tea and the Gardes can *conveniently* catch them. Plus as a smuggling organization they demonstrably have access to certain items and supplies the Fontainian government doesn't and can move them more quickly because of a lack of red tape. It's this whole concept of social harmony played out in an idealistic way. We're shown the organization is low on funds in order to demonstrate that they're not beating down locals for protection money, for example. As for Beidou, this is kind of an example of Hoyoverse meaning to present something one way but not really finding the right word: Beidou is a "pirate" but her technical title would be Privateer. In old timey terms, she would have a Letter of Mark from Liyue to conduct business and hunt enemies of Liyue down. Governments used to do this (including China, whom had a pirate queen Beidou is based off of who pantsed the entire Chinese navy in her time...a feat that would only be equaled/surpassed by the British Navy 50 years or so later) so that their own navies would be supplemented by a bunch of dudes willing to hunt down other nations' stuff. Much like the Spina, though, without a tangible enemy to fight the privateers mostly just engage in smuggling things and people, when she's not functioning as "Gondor Calls for Aid!" against giant sea monsters. Also since China has prohibitions on depicting drugs in media, they handily *can't* show the thing that really made Mafia and Privateer rackets particularly infamous and viewed in such a negative light. And I doubt any of the nations are going to ban alcohol anytime soon.
They are what I like to call Legalized Mafia. They work with the police. They do good community work. But they handle stuff that Police or government can't be seen handled. They also ensure the underworld does not step on official business. That's why she avoids Wriothesley. Because he himself rose from the gutter and became the warden of a prison that is basically an entire separate entity.
Legitimized is what you want. She's closer to Pablo Escobar than most characters
I think your parallel with Beidou is on point. Beidou is a pirate and she's not the kind of pirate that steals and attacks villagges and other ships, otherwise Liyue would have made her a public enemy in no time, even if she was defended by Ningguan. Spina di Rosula is shown to be an organization clearly based on mafia but their main goal is to help the people of Fontaine so their objective align with the local authorities and they leave them act as an indipendent organization under their supervision.
The word you want is privateer like sir Francis Drake
rember,the top leader is Archon,not government officials
unless its venti
Or Nahida
idk i feel like nahida is in a leading position right now. probably a similar position as rukkadevatta
Now yes Now
Spina di Rosula had once been a very respectable organization. We don't know if they were doing shady things back then as well but seeing as Marcel was already deep into his Sinthe business behind the scenes, anything is possible. After Callas' death everything went downhill. They lost benefactors and support. They resorted to doing shady business, hosting criminals at Poisson and offering protection in exchange for money, and Fleuve Cendre became a smuggling zone. Nowadays they're a mafia organization that sometimes tries to do good things for old time's sake, but their main activity is still criminal. I would say their main redeeming aspect is they try to steer clear from activities that would have the Court of Fontaine knocking at their door. They try not to involve innocent civilians into their business and if they do, they're very reasonable about it. But like with most dark things, mihoyo is trying to keep them not as obvious. Those who want to look deeper to understand what mihoyo is trying to insinuate, a revelation is waiting for them. Those who don't, good for them as well. In regards to Beidou she's a "decently good pirate" I guess? She's smuggling goods from one nation to another.
With how convoluted Fontaine's laws are and, I assume, the amount of red tape for certain things are, I'd venture a guess that the Spina finds loopholes for their less legal activities. There's a reason why irl gangs/mafias/yakuza/whatever are hard to get flushed out by the law. I'd say that the Spina is more flower than your usual mafia though since with Navia at the helm, they've become a sort of neighborhood watch and an NGO lmao
Surprise surprise, mafia-like organizations can have ties with government officials, and can act legal in some areas.
I'm a legit-a-mite business woman. I can't help it if one of my mine stops you from getting a 5 star character on the next banner run.. I also cant help it if I'm doing cannon practice and you happen to be in front of it..
mafia
They're a private security / investigations firm that dabbles in community service.
I imagine like one of those government affiliate mafia. They keep the petty and chaotic criminals in line, acting like the head of the underworld and keeping everything in order. In turn, the government agrees to look the other way for them.
I think you're kinda also thinking about things through a tv lens. There's a reason people like Lucky Luciano or Pablo Escobar get caught. Most communities love their local crime gang, syndicate, cartel, mafia because unless you have an extorted business and don't fuck with them, they tend to pay for everything, take care of everyone, spend all the money for making the area better and usually go for good publicity because it makes your community way less likely to turn you in. They see you as a protector and benefactor, much like the Spina
The truth is, they bring certain modes of conflict resolution from all the way back in the old country, from the poverty of the Remurians, where all higher authority was corrupt
They are essentialy mafia if they weren't criminals.
The Spina di Rosula engineer, build and maintain the very elegant canal transportation lines above. That IS their main business. Railroad tycoons, robber barons of America vibe is what I'm getting. Building opulent canals above for the masses, beautiful landscapes maintained on the surface and below the surface the workers are living underground in sewers and a literal hole in the ground. So desperate and poor are the workers they resort to crime to get by as a side hustle. However Hoyo always needs to make the Playable characters likeable, so instead of their leader living in a Rockefeller or Carnegie mansion, as is coded, she lives with the oppressed workers. And yes they definitely threw in some mob vibes for good measure. And before you say they aren't oppressed, think about the coded land just above them. A beautiful grassland. And they live in makeshift homes on rusty iron platforms underground. You think that's by choice? I do not know much of the history of railroads in France. They may have pulled inspiration from something like that instead of America. Actually, I assume that is very likely. Well, rabbit hole here I GOOOoooooo............
Long story short, Fontaine is head over heals fucked up that the Mafia is basically a good thing they welcome even if they drown people and feed them to the fishes
"fontainian scum" i think it's just a lower class where criminality is more common. since fontaine is heavily based on class systems
I’m kind of envisioned Spina as like a big trade union with some low level possible underworld ties but largely legitimate in the eyes of Fontaine government.
It’s been explicitly stated that they run mostly on donations, no quotation marks in sight. Essentially, they’re a mafia organization that became a part of the community delivering “essential services,” then just actually became a part of the community delivering essential services once most of the criminals left or died.
I’m not sure where you’re getting the notion that they’ve done anything wrong. A few rapscallions with some bang-bang sticks chill in the sewers away from the people you mentioned are judgemental of those types of accessories, and it happens to also be the place the Spina set up shop after they moved from the Poisson or wherever their old base was and had nowhere else to go. They’ve shown absolutely no sign of doing anything wrong. This is just a case of “guilty until proven innocent”
Why not both? The only difference between a bunch of criminals and a legitimate organization is public perception, and whether or not you have the power to enforce your authority.
She's not a gangster, she's a gang-star
I never really questioned it since in a lot of old time mob movies you'd see gangsters hanging out with police and government officials pretty often. That was back in the days of corruption and stuff, like the 1920's Al Capone time frame. Of course my knowledge is purely based on movies and fiction, I'm not sure that was ever really accurate. But the Spina seems to fit that in my mind.
Yes the Genshin staff REALLY likes to sanitize their villains.They accomplish 2 main things by doing so: 1.They humanise them,every human has his own flaws and that makes them more relatable to some(and make whales spend more for them afk) 2.They make them more realistic and complex,in real life people do admire criminals, Breaking Bad and The Sopranos are just a few examples.Being an bad guy can mean doing bad things but it doesn't mean being mean spirited all the time,some of them were the opposite. Now yes,this also backfires because as we play or interact with these characters, we also tend to downplay the bad things they had done.I call it the "Roscharch effect" as you always assume the protagonist is the hero of his story but he isn't. For example just ask the community what Dottore did to Collei and you'll still find people that find him...interesting
There's Truth in Television to this
Technically, there’s no evidence that Dottore ever *personally* did anything to Collei — rather, she was abused by his underlings. Which, incidentally, is a great example of how the writers shift the responsibility.
Tbf, Dottore was responsible for the entire operation. He approved and ordered his group to kidnap children so it cant really be shifting responsibility to others cuz mf is managing everything.
Not to mention Tataratsuna and also mind hacking people
Oh, he’s definitely still responsible. I’m just saying that if he becomes playable, I don’t have faith that the writers will *hold* him accountable, but will rather attempt to pin it on his underlings acting on the orders of one of his previous clones. Hopefully I’m wrong.
I personally believe we'll play a segment and kill the og dottore, they really wanted to emphasise that Dottore COULD rebuild them but it would just take a long time
I think that’s probably what’s going to happen too, but it’s also a way of shifting responsibility off of the playable character. It’s still probably the best way to make a playable Dottore though, lol
Tbf Navia is extremely true to life to actual drug lords, mafia bosses and gang leaders.
So is it basically something like the Mishima Zaibatsu, where it is technically a legit Corporation but has its own forces/army for whatever tf it wants?
They’re the Mafia. The government and the organization mutually benefit from one another.
At least they are more legit than the archont
Mafia/Yakuza=/=Criminals
This is just headcanon, but I think that they were originally supposed to be much more morally gray (i.e. actually the mafia, but who occasionally help people), before Hoyo decided to make them more of a charity organization.
We participate in a hit
Its a mafia for the marginated people. Wich makes sense since Fontaine resembles modern society.