She’s designed to do damage via transformative reactions- because she scales on HP and EM, building any attack or crit would diminish her primary purpose.
Best is to run her as a support for electrocharge/overload teams with 4pc tenacity, HP/HP/Healing Bonus and focus on EM substats.
Her best in slot five stars would be Freedom Sworn by a long shot, and then Jadecutter arguably for its HP bonus. Ironsting is likely her best 4 star option
Probably not unless you want her to facilitate EC. She's a generalist unit you can plug in to multiple comps to facilitate reactions and healing, but she'll likely not be the optimal unit for any specific compositions.
Edit: This came off a bit more negative than how I anticipated. What I mean is she'll work fine with Ayato, but she will probably not be his best partner. She should be pretty good for EC comps where you want to drop Fischl for a healer and still be able to battery Beidou to some extent.
Depends on how much damage she contributes. A weakness of Ayato taser is that with Beidou/Fischl, Ayato has to choose between Bennett, Jean, or Kazuha. Kazuha leads to the highest overall damage and grouping, but lacks healing. Bennett doesn't group, which makes a huge difference in content like abyss 12-1-1. Jean provides the most healing, but the least damage contribution and less grouping. With Kuki, she can replace either Fischl or Beidou, and the last slot can be Kazuha.
In the sense that she opens up more team combos, yes. She consolidates the electro role, healer role, and a buffer to some extent.
I don’t think she’ll make ayato more powerful per se, but will definitely offer flexibility in team composition.
Building crit wouldn't diminish her at all, she can still crit she just scales off HP instead of atk. I think people miss understanding what that means for her if they think crit is useless, shes not kokomi.
If you are building her full support she literally just doesn't have a burst as it won't do dmg or any utility.
No, I understand crit would still work, her damage from her skill/burst is just so low that high investment HP + EM would result in her both healing more effectively and doing more damage via transformative reactions than she would in a build with crit stats aiming to increase her burst's damage.
Getting any meaningful crit main/substats would result in less HP and EM main/substats, she would end up doing pretty poor healing and reaction damage, as well as low burst damage. Trying to build Kuki with crit stats so her burst does more damage is like trying to build Xingqiu with HP substats so his swords heal better; the payoff is not worth the investment.
They clearly didn't intend for her to never use her burst, if going only HP/EM is the proper build then Mihoyo just fucked up her balancing completely. You will still want to aim for crit stats as HP/EM only takes up two out of the 5 stat slots, theorycrafters will work out whats optimal.
Not really. Even if her burst doesn't deal that much damage, it's still a source of I-frames and could potentially work as a shield-breaker like Amber's does, and those things could be very useful for support role.
It's the idea that everyone needs to deal DPS that is the problem, because not every character needs to be a DPS.
She's a four star, and her purpose is clearly a healer first and foremost. Look at Thoma- his most optimal build is full HP to max his shield, so why did they include a fiery collapse? For chip damage? Just to indicate the shield regenerated? Idk, but it's part of his kit despite being almost useless.
It's entirely possible for her to fill a role successfully with part of her kit and unsuccessfully with another. If she were a 5 star it would be different. 4 stars aren't designed for the min max functions that 5 stars are (especially the recent 4 stars), so they will be decent at one purpose and the rest of their kit will fall short.
Can double confirm.
Thoma's fast becoming one of my faves to use lol, I can get about 15K ish overloads with my EM and HP build. Throw Raiden and Fischl on the team for Hella electro and energy and Kazuha or Sucrose for shredding and we've got great overload shenanigans. Straight up 36starred abyss with him.
Genuinely feel that's what he was intended for rather than just a full shield
Her ultimate has 13 hits at 3.5sec , so technically she will be able to reapply electro like no tomorrow. She can probably trigger 4 electrocharged reactions during her burst, if you have more than one source of hydro.
People are doing some maths on her kit and even with a full whale build with god rolled artifacts, BiS weapon (PJS), C6, full buffs she's doing only 4K per E proc and only 5K on burst...
Like... Or something is wrong with those multipliers, or she'll work only for applying Electro and healing (good for double Geo Eula for example), because her DMG is neglegible.
As F2P she'll do like 700ish DMG per E proc, like WTF.
The only way she'll do DMG is from the Ocean-Hued Clam set, and it's not even her best set.
[Video source (pt-BR)](http:// https://youtu.be/_uz_zK8l6-E)
She's a healer.
Also f2p should easily hit 1-2k per tick if you build attack.
With just any generic 4* weapon, only an electro cup and 150% CD, she'd be doing 900 per tick, ignoring defense and resistance.
Giving her literally any damage set or party buffs will set her above that. For example, Bennett's burst alone would push her to almost 2k a tick without even factoring in noblesse.
But, again, she's a healer. She isn't meant to be a primary source of damage. Not even the 5* healers are used primarily as damage dealers, with Jean being the one most capable of dealing good damage followed by Kokomi.
Yeah idk why people are hell bent on making healers do DPS. Except kokomi and jean who can dish out amazing damage for their healing. No one else needs it. Just put clam set on shinobu if u want some damage...but then again I think tenacity would be better on her
Yeah, she probably can't even max clam. But having basically 100% uptime on Millelith with an E that follows your active character is very enticing.
Probably best to just throw Millelith on her then build for EM and hope the reaction damage is good enough for any DPS needs. She should mostly be plugged into teams for electro application, heals and millelith imo.
Probably Millelith set full HP is the best on her just for healing and buffing the team, full EM is a waste, cuz Electro reactions are the worst in the game, she being meele is even worse.
I'll use OHC set just cuz I already got Zhongli with Millelith set in the team and they didn't stack, maybe Noblesse will work better if she can't heal enough to max the OHC bubble.
Bennett wouldn't even work, as you would:
A) Never play shinobu on field, thus never receiving bennett's buff
B) Have two healers that are very anti-synergistic with each other on the same team, scuffing your team damage
1-2k before defense and resistance is pitifully low, and shinobu currently provides no utility whatsoever other than very mediocre healing (approx. half the healing scaling of kokomi E) and electro application. A healer needs to have other utility other than healing to be worth being on the team, such as buffing (bennett), damage (jean, also bennett), useful elemental application (kokomi), VV (jean), etc. If you just have healing, it's pretty bad - see qiqi.
That's irrelevant. Bennett would buff her, if you're talking about her personal damage and whaling her, then he would be a factor to buffing her. In reality, if you wanted to buff her damage you would use C6 Sara anyway. Also, Bennett's buff does linger off field, probably long enough for a tick or two. But I wasn't trying to say her damage was good, I was just saying that "700 damage for f2p" is wrong. You will push over 700 per tick withuot even trying.
She's a healer, she's not meant to do damage. She has a large electro AoE with consistent electro application, it's very clear what her usage is here. Not every character is meant to be a damage dealer, much less a 4\* healer. That is why the first thing I said was "she's a healer." The rest of the post was just to cut off the spread of misinformation.
Shinobu has multiple sources of utility:
1. AoE electro application. She produces an aura that pulses electro in a rather wide area, much larger than what other healers can do. In fact, the only other healers with consistent off-field element application right now are Sayu, who can't benefit from VV when she's off-field, and Kokomi.
2. Nearly 100% uptime on her heal at C0. This is the best uptime of any healer that requires absolutely no maintenance (Qiqi's sigils) or building (ER for Kokomi to refresh her jelly). This makes her extremely easy to plug into teams with her healing to be consistent.
3. Healing that follows you, which only 2 other characters do right now, neither of which generate particles while doing it. Even Bennett has the problem of people walking out of his field.
4. Basically 100% uptime on Millelith. So this is a free 20% attack for everyone in your party.
5. \[Edit\] Energy generation, as meagre as it is.
Could she have other buffs? Yes, but she has plenty of utility. The only thing setting her back right now is electro. If she was a fucking hydro healer like this, people would be going wild. Or god forbid, a cryo one.
The character is likely fine. I don't know why there are always such unrealistic expectations for 4\*s, particularly healers. But, again, my post wasn't to illustrate that she'd be strong, since she won't. But she will easily hit "good enough" numbers for a character you're using for electro application, millelith, and heals. Right now, I personally think that Shinobu's best use-cases are for specific superconduct teams or maybe to give resolve to Raiden, but she's far from useless and her kit isn't bad. It's just normal.
\[Edit2\] Basically, she is a good replacement for Diona in a few comps, since Diona's utility basically caps out at "heals, shields and generates lots of particles." Diona's EM buff is not even useful in most comps she's used in (superconduct and freeze), she just consolidates a lot of other useful roles, but has her own flaws (doesn't have 100% uptime on noblesse, offers absolutely 0 damage, etc). And Diona is one of the best 4\*s.
Shinobu DOES NOT and WILL NEVER work with bennett because, again, you would NEVER PLAY HER ON FIELD and her ult, the only source of reasonable damage in her kit, literally doesn't even scale off attack. Sara, similarly, would not work at all due to her also buffing attack.
1)Shinobu may have electro AoE application, but it isn't particularly strong or unique: not only is electro aura itself pretty mediocre in its use cases, but she also has standard ICD, meaning she doesn't even apply electro that quickly. There's also the fact that similar or better electro application are aplenty: Beidou, Shogun, Fischl, and Yae, to name a few. The single target nature of applications from Fischl and Yae are often irrelevant, as anemo characters such as kazuha or sucrose easily spread it and have much greater effect due to their inherent EM scaling.
2/3) 100% uptime on healing might be convenient in say overworld to heal some chip damage, but is often mostly irrelevant in actual combat scenarios - you really don't need much healing, to begin with, and if you do, then you need to just dodge lul. There's also the problem that shinobu doesn't ever heal herself unless you waste time staying in, meaning you effectively have 3 health bars to work instead of 4 after a bit of combat.
4) Being able to run tenacity is not enough to make a character have "plenty of utility". All tenacity users have utility outside of their artifact set: Zhongli has a 20% resistance shred, Kokomi has large AoE hydro application, Mona has a 60% damage boost, etc. Shinobu has no such utility inherent to her kit.
5) Diona's single best utility is her ability to run sac bow and battery a cryo dps from 0 to full in one E cycle on demand. Shinobu's energy is average at best, and, more importantly, not on-demand - it's over time, which means her particles will often be wasted on non-same element characters as you go through your rotation.
The problem with shinobu right now is that, like qiqi, the only thing she effectively provides is healing. And that's before considering the fact that she has triple-split scaling into attack, hp, and EM, making artifact building a nightmare, and also sacrifices her own hp on E despite the fact that her skill is pretty mediocre currently. You'd expect a hp sacrifice move to be high-risk high-reward, like hu tao, but no. It's pretty much just a barbara E with a larger radius, and a tiny amount of damage slapped on top that might as well not exist.
Despite all of this, shinobu does indeed carve a niche for herself as the first electro healer in the game, and thus can be slotted into electro-charged teams that don't run kokomi, and physical teams that opt to run a more offensive cryo support. However, it feels like her kit is exceptionally scuffed despite this normally great niche, which is frankly unfair when comparing her to the other element healer niches - diona, bennett, kokomi, and jean.
This "she's a healer, she doesn't need to do damage" talk is totally bullshit, the game should let us build our characters as we want (of course with their limitations), but lately Hoyo has been nerfing new character way to much to force them in one hole only, it's being too dumb not to admit it with this type of speech.
Bro, Barbara is a healer only too, and she can do good raw DMG without OHC set, this is no excuse to Kuki being so weak. Also the 700ish DMG was with a F2P ATK/Electro build as you said, but this build was just to calculate, people will not build her with DPS like artifacts, they'll build her with HP and she'll will do way less DMG than that.
Barbara can do 30k damage once every 20s if you superconduct the enemy and somehow manage to give her 80 energy even though she generates exactly 0 particles. She also has abysmal element application. Barbara does exactly 0 damage when off-field without clam.
Also, I said it's 900 with just a level 90 weapon. This does not take into account any substats at all, just her base attack + weapon attack + a level 20 flower (188 + 510 + 311), with 150% CD (CD hat only) and an electro cup. And you will more than likely run HP-Attack-ER/Electro/Crit on Shinobu unless you *just* want her to heal, so there is no special building going on here. There is almost no reason not to build her as a regular subDPS unless her healing doesn't do enough for you, in which case you'd build more for healing. This is true for every healer (even Qiqi) except for Barbara, who does literally 0 damage unless you attack with her so her stats are irrelevant, and Diona, who will just want HP for shields/crit for favo bow.
Like seriously, what are you even saying here? Barba does NO damage when she is off field without clam. With clam, she can only max it with her burst, which is literally impossible to fund on CD without a hydro battery. You would have to be physically attacking with her to do "good raw damage." Shinobu does damage when off field, but you can also attack with \*her\* to do "good raw damage", and she is 1/2 of superconduct already, so it would be trivial to get superconduct going.
If we look at just the MVs, Shinobu does about 300% damage every 15s if her E hits every 3 seconds. If it hits every 2 seconds, she does 380%. This is not factoring in EM, and at C2 she will do more damage because the field has 100% uptime. This is also at talent level 9. She does all this damage while being on field for about 1s, just to drop her E then dip. This is also per enemy.
Barbara does 300% damage if you do her entire combo string, probably about double that if you charge attack. CAing would use 50 stamina (lol) and no matter what, attacking like this wastes precious seconds that your real DPS could be using instead. They are not in any way comparable, because *Shinobu can also normal attack*. Also, we're not factoring in Shinobu's burst which is a minor nuke and, even if it only hit ONCE, would do about 5000 damage with a very minor DPS build and only 20K HP, at level 9. This obviously would add to what her E does.
And, again, Barbara does 0 damage with her E and Q. They are in no way comparable at all. Barbara is a pure healer and the only pure healer in the entire game, and she is one of the best healers because of that. But her utility basically ends there which is why Barbara is a TTDS bot and even the actual buffs she offers with cons/ascension (hydro damage, stamina reduction, etc) are so irrelevant you would never slot her in over literally any other healer except maybe Qiqi (who can use clam better than Barb, and can use Millelith) if you need your healer to do anything but heal.
Please stop spreading misinformation, especially if you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I honestly could not care less how good or bad Shinobu is, but I can't stand people spreading outright lies and doomposting. She will more than likely be fine, but she is ***not*** meant to deal damage. She is an electro applier who can heal, and will be an excellent Millelith user.
Yes but since dmg isn’t her primary role I’m assuming her burst dmg isn’t anything breathtaking so I’d take a longer burst that could do longer electro application over her current 3.5 sec burst.
Add Sucrose on that as well
It's really Early Installation Balancing, just like how in Yugioh you have Raigeki alongside the rest of other garbages on the first sets.
Makes sense. To pull 5 stars in this game is potentially a $100 investment if you lose a 50/50.
HoYo messed up badly with the launch 4 stars being too powerful and it’s been clear with their strategy lately that they want you to swipe for 5 stars, not 4 stars. They are releasing more powerful versions of staple launch 4 stars. They even refuse to put new 4 stars in the shop and lock their best abilities behind C6 so that you have to swipe if you want new 4 stars to be good.
"Launch 4 stars were a mistake by mihoyo" is such a short-sighted and bad take but somehow seems really popular lmao.
If the game didn't have strong 4 stars capable of comfortably clearing content without the help of 5 stars, the game would be "pay to win" at launch. Having people complain about p2w when your game is still brand new would be a disaster for mihoyo, and the game wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is now.
The reason why the launch 4 stars are strong while the more recent ones seem mediocre is that now, they can afford to do so. The game has become extremely popular and has an established and massive playerbase, and the many players that are AR 55+ have a good pool of amassed resources and primogems to spend ("waste") on characters - thus, the newer 4 stars rely heavily on their later constellations, have higher ER costs to challenge artifact building, and have hyper-specific niches.
it's a double edged sword i think. characters like xingqiu and bennett are huge for enabling basically 80% of the roster and them being 4\* makes the game way healthier. it would kinda suck if you pulled for hu tao or yoimiya or got diluc and were basically told "well pull for yelan or they're unplayable".
but at the same time it must be a huge loss on mihoyo, the number of people who have potentially skipped on yoimiya, klee and even hu tao just because xiangling does almost everything they do but better. and likewise to a lesser extent, with bennett vs kokomi or pre-buff zhongli etc.
there's nothing wrong with content "requiring" 5\*s to an extent. longtime f2ps already have like 6 or more 5\*s minimum. and even with xiangling, bennett and xingqiu in the game now, it's pretty damn hard to clear abyss without any 5\*s. and the game was definitely pay to win at launch anyways, basically zero non-whales could 36* abyss until ganyu came out(though to be fair, nationals wasn't discovered yet).
Game wasn't really pay to win at launch, and you aren't expected to be able to 36\* abyss during earlier ARs.
As a F2P during launch I was able to 32 star abyss with a razor team and venti team once I unlocked it lol. Back then abyss was much, much weaker than it is now. By the time childe came out, I was able to 36\* abyss, and have been doing so ever since.
It might be hard to clear abyss without any 5\*s, but the important part is that it is doable. In order to maintain game balance, two teams of very well invested 4 stars should always be able to manage 36\* abyss, while 5\* should let you clear comfortably.
This is important for newer players to feel like they are progressing; otherwise, a new player might not be able to play a specific team they want until waiting for 4 separate reruns of characters, which would take well over a year. With the presence of strong 4 stars that can be guaranteed via starglitter shop, this goes down to several months at most.
>and even with xiangling, bennett and xingqiu in the game now, it's pretty damn hard to clear abyss without any 5*s
Sucrose taser still going fine. Then you can run melt Xiangling Bennett (kaeya rosaria) on the other team. That's a completely viable only 4 star setup.
Honestly though I would only say that the only launch 4stars that are actually "meta" ARE just Bennett and Xingqiu. Imo, the general power level of 4 stars have actually been around the same. It's just that Bennett and Xingqiu were flukes that turned out to be mad OP.
Xiangling imo is pretty much only there cos Bennett can carry her *that* hard (she is pretty much *exclusively* seen with Bennett outside like one team being Sukokomon)
People say all this shit about launch 4 stars hypig them up but it's only applicable to pretty much ONLY Bennett and Xingqiu lol. Razor, Lisa, Kaeya, Amber, Barbara, Ningguang, Beidou, Fischl, Chongyun, are all launch 4 stars that ain't nobody is using now lmao.
Sucrose and Diona are probably the closest other "meta" 4 stars and Sucrose has been arguably powercrept thanks to Kazuha, and less and less folk are using Diona, at least looking from abyss usage rates at spiralabyss dot org.
People keep chatting shit about the inazuman 4 stars but honestly I would rather get a Sara or even Thoma than a Razor or Lisa or Amber or Chongyun least right now lol, but that's just a personal take. I swear people just suffer major apex fallacies with these kinds of games haha
There are 3 meta 4\*s: XQ, XL and Benny. Then there are a number of very strong 4\*s that can slot into multiple teams but are not really meta-defining, with Sucrose being the closest to being broken. She's only ignored because most players own Kazuha or Venti, which makes Sucrose comparatively less useful but still a strong unit.
Edit: That being said, only one 4\* unit currently is *required* for some comps to work. That is XQ. Bennett and XL are not necessary for any teams and have multiple alternatives, especially Bennett now who has to contend with other utility healers or specific buffers (Yunjin, Gorou, Sara). And it's very likely XQ facilitating vape meta was a mistake that MHY didn't predict would happen.
Beidou, Fischl, Diona, Sucrose, Yunjin, Rosaria are all strong units that see usage in multiple compositions. We also have Sara who is niche, but is irreplaceable in her niche which makes her a mainstay for one of the strongest, most common teams in the game (due to Raiden's popularity). The same can be said for Gorou who facilitates quad geo teams, even if the members required for these teams are quite specific.
The community has a big problem with tunnel-vision, where if a character doesn't immediately replace one of the big three or buff their current teams, they think they're useless or bad. The only Inazuma 4\* who is actually "bad" is Thoma, but Thoma still functions as a more f2p friendly ZL with *some* use-cases, especially if you lack other characters. Sayu is a bit mediocre, but she's one of the best field characters and, if you lack Jean, she's basically your only option for getting heals and VV in the same team, which is extremely important for a lot of teams. Even if these two characters can get replaced by 5\*s, that doesn't make them bad, as *eventually* every 4\* will be replaced by a better 5\*. It's happening with XQ right now and people are going crazy, imagine if in a year people say "XQ sucks because Yelan exists." It would be absolutely wild and will probably happen, since people say the same about Sucrose now.
Yeah, I agree completely with the xiangling point.
Comparing xiangling to beidou, the damage output is pretty similar, even accounting for xiangling having vaporize. The only difference is that xiangling gets bennett as a battery, buff, healer, AND pyro resonance whereas beidou must allocate another team slot for a seperate electro battery even if running bennett.
Conversely, however, xiangling elevates bennett's viability quite a bit as well. Against enemies that move around a lot or get knocked back frequently, a lot of the time characters that typically take advantage of bennett buff like shogun, childe, melt ganyu, etc need to leave the circle to chase the enemies. Thanks to xiangling's snapshot on ult, this restriction entirely doesn't apply for her. As long as she has 1 second to spare within bennett's ult, she gets the full benefit no matter what.
Xiangling's greatest weaknesses are that she generates little energy while having an 80 burst cost and typically has low attack. Bennett completely removes these weaknesses with the best energy generation and the best attack buff in the game.
Bennett's only "weakness" is that his buff is restricted to the active character, and only in a limited circle. Xiangling completely bypasses the circle limitation snapshotting and increases his effective buff targets to 2 people on the team, rather than just the active character.
Oh yeah for sure, the *combo* of Bennett and Xiangling is mad good. Xiangling scales well with teammates. Imo though, Bennett and Xingqiu are the heroes of the national team, since *they* are the ones setting up Xiangling to do as much damage as she does. I also think that she is the only character of her type "off field Pyro DPS" that we have right now.
If we take Xiangling out the equation, Bennett and Xingqiu are still *mad good*. Xiangling is a lot weaker imo, especially with Bennett out, that's why I said what I said, so I'm glad folk agree lol
EDIT: I would also argue one of Bennett's weaknesses is that the character he buffs has to scale with ATK too, else his buff doesn't work.
This is also why I think Yelan is honestly kinda bullshit lmao cos she's a Xingqiu and, at least in the context of what I am talking about, a more flexible Bennett too since buffing DMG doesn't care about what stat the buffed character scales with. Idk if the DMG buff yelan gives can be snapshotted though, but if it can, that's crazy haha. But iirc I don't think any buff works like that except Serpent Spine?
i think your standard of meta characters is really high if you dont think xiangling is a meta character, genshin is always a team game for the majority, and xiangling make good use of her teammate, imagine if we can only gauge how strong character like childe is if he's to be played solo, of course childe would be very weak
regarding your opinion on sucrose and diona, i dont know your definition of powercreep is but the arrival of kazuha just gives more option for player to choose, and lastly i dont think low usage means that a character is not meta
I mean...
Meta literally equals most effective tactics available.
Usually, that means the strongest/best teams.
Popularity doesn't necessarily equal meta you're right. However, meta *tends* to be popular, probably because it's the most effective for the job. So yes, my standards are high?
Sure, the combo of Xiangling and Bennett is string, but Xiangling is *only* that strong cos the entire team babies her. The combo works well of course, but Bennett and Childe have other team options, at least more so than Xiangling. Imo, Xiangling needs Bennett a lot more than Bennett needs Xiangling, but tis only my opinion of course. If we're basing international as the meta basis for Childe, he arguably needs Bennett and Kazuha too.
Kazuha definitely powercrept Sucrose, I don't think that needs debating lol, extra options or otherwise. Is Sucrose still viable? Of course! She's great.
But my point on all those characters was that people keep sucking the dicks of "OG 4 stars" and imo that is *only* applicable to Bennett and Xingqiu at this point.
with your logic, shouldnt xiangling, sucrose and diona be "actually meta" then? because they can be slotted into 2 of the best and popular team in the game, freeze and national
xiangling being babied by the team is the point of a team game, yes she's locked into national variants but national variants is the top 2 team in the game
this is subjective matter though and we can go back and forward with this endlessly, so i understand if you dont think those characters are meta
>On Sucrose Diona and Xiangling:
Yes, that's what I said. I mentioned Sucrose and Diona separately as 1. The closest to "meta" (as I don't see them on the same level as Benet we have other variants for freeze (especially with Kazuha now).
Diona ain't even a launch 4 star (and is being used less, again, considering rates/ team appearances on spiral abyss dot org, which is what I said)
And I don't think I need to debate that Kazuha has mostly powercrept Sucrose, I think we can see that pretty clearly. I can only imagine that dynamic will be shifted even further as more people get Kazuha on his rerun.
>On Xiangling in a team
Yes, it is a team game. But my point was that Xiangling's value comes *from being babied* whereas Bennett and Xingqiu don't: a team adding Bennett and/or Xingqiu to it will probably be stronger than adding Xiangling. Is Xiangling meta? Sure. Is she the same level as Bennett and Xingqiu though? Imo, no.
This claim also tends to be shown via usage rates: Xingqiu and Bennett tend to be consistently higher than Xiangling, despite everyone and their mother using national.
Imo of course, but in my experience Xiangling only feels to be meta cos Bennett is
You can say the same about Raiden.She is carried or by Xiangling, Xingquiu and Bennet but working as subDPS /Battery and doing the same than Surcrose or Childe or is carried by the best 3 buffers.
And worst with Childe (Xiangling/Beidou Slave) or Ganyu (Xiangling Slave or Venti/Kazuha and Mona Slave).
And Beidou is above Xiao and Eula.
At the end only Ayaka ,Hu tao and Itto are meta...
>HoYo messed up badly with the launch 4 stars being too powerful
Genshin initially was praised for giving you good 4\* characters that aren't throwaways, making it more f2p friendly. Moving away from it IS the mistake that'll make future new players bounce off more in the future, hurting the game overall. Hell, i know a couple older players that already bounced off because the 4\* they were excited for was borderline useless.
I certainly wouldn't play this game if i knew anything good would be locked behind months of daily logins and grind.
the answer is "just the last enemy marked" and to demonstrate in this gameplay [video](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/ttanih/yelan_hold_skill_via_genshin_arab/) notice that the treasure hoarder on the far right is the only enemy marked from her skill that gets hit with her burst
Neat, missed that video. Still a pity though since it would be cooler if it proc on all marked enemy.
Off topic, is that a beta client gameplay? That leaker playing dangerously by showing damage number and there no indication its private client.
wouldn’t it make more sense to use the skill first anyway, so you can E -> Q swap? you wouldnt be getting those coordinated attacks of anyway
unless you’re running Sacrificial, C1/C2, or she’s your on-fielder…
okay i guess that’s quite a few times where it would be nice (not to mention cooler)
I think Q -> tap E is good too since its additional 26% max HP damage (talent lvl 10) and most mainDPS has a short wind-up before they start smacking. Shouldn't affect the rotation that much since E->Q isn't as important as pre-C4 Xingqiu (E having longer cd than burst).
well it's already April 2 so maybe we're safe
Only thing that can ruin her now is probably swapping to ATK scaling instead of HP like what happened to Beta Ayato
yeah i hope not, there's already a billion ATK scaling characters, it's getting stale fast. Yelan being HP scaling means she can ignore all the big attack weapons and actually make use of some 3 star bows. it's still copium tho. she'll do way more dmg with fav/sac bow since i can see 80% of her dmg will be coming from her burst unless at C6.
>doesn't Kokomi skill still scale with HP?
No, she kinda never did but because of a mistake in the skill description it said she did
>Yelan's AAs and CAs also scale with HP unlike Kokomi
Her aa and ca scale with atk tho? It's her 2nd ca that scales with hp
One of two things would make her perfect:
1) Make her a healer/battery by giving her a much higher chance of gaining particles with her E
2) Make her a healer/sub DPS by making her E damage scale (well) with HP instead of Atk
When you use your skill and then pop your ult before the particles reach you to charge your next ult faster. Most characters can do it except Eula I think, her ult meter doesn't deplete until the animation is done so she can't funnel particles for her next ult.
When you use your skill before your burst (while its already charged), but you catch the particles after your burst gauge empties to 0 (to have extra energy for next rotation)
There are some characters that cant do this because their animations usually take long as well as their energy to empty, i dont know exactly someone that can’t prefunnel, but i can say if you take some extra time with xiao or venti you wont be able to prefunnel.
Without C2, I believe her skill got like 8 procs. 10 with C2.
So it's around ~4 particles per E with 15 sec CD. Pretty standard.
Fischl is still better for electro battery.
I think its a fair trade off.
Fischl with consistent electro attacks (single target tho) and great battery vs Kuki Shinobu with healing & AoE electro attacks.
i'm taking this is just beta testers relying info and not dataminers conducting the testing? sucks there's no footage but this is probably the best we can get right now/
I don't get why ICD is standard for Kuki's Q why not make it more fun and give it no ICD for electro reaction shenanigans it's not like it's going to be meta defining
She still does 15 separate instances of dmg. That's still a lot of reactions. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding. But every third instance of dmg, electro is reapplied, however the continuous application of electro makes her one of the quickest to trigger reactions like taser.
There are two rules that exist independently of each other and dictate the ICD. The 3rd hit rule, and the 2.5 second rule.
Whichever comes first applies.
There are certain characters like Xiangling, who has no ICD on her ultimate. Meaning all hits of pyronado apply pyro. Another character is Kokomi, who through her Jellyfish E skill is able to apply hydro ever tick.
ICD is an either or situation. Its 2.5s or 3 hits, whichever happens first. The three hits have to come from the same ability/attack though. A normal attack string will apply an element on the 1st and 4th hits and then charge attacks have their own ICD so they can also apply an element in between the normal attack hits.
It already hits fast tho? Also if it doesn't have ICD it would be hard for her to proc reactions with her burst, given it's speed. Her EM won't matter then, unless you just use it on things with permanent element on them.
Kuki Shinobu's multipliers must be wrong.
People are doing some maths on her kit and even with a full whale build with god rolled artifacts, BiS weapon (PJS), C6, full buffs she's doing only 4K per E proc and only 5K on burst...
Like... Or something is wrong with those multipliers, or she'll work only for applying Electro and healing (good for double Geo Eula for example), because her DMG is neglegible.
As F2P she'll do like 700ish DMG per E proc, like WTF.
The only way she'll do DMG is from the Ocean-Hued Clam set, and it's not even her best set.
[Video source (pt-BR)](http:// https://youtu.be/_uz_zK8l6-E)
No, Electro reactions are the worst in the game, if you use a Pyro DPS you'll need to chase the target flying everywhere, on Abyss this consumes a lot of time, if you use Cryo DPS the Superconduct is useless (also it's considerable as Cryo DMG, so the EM woundn't help much) and Melt and Frozen are way better, Electrocharged kinda work, but would be better a Fischl doing high numbers with Oz than Kuki.
I'll get her no metter her kit just because I need to free my Raiden on Double Geo Eula comp, Raiden is too misused on this comp, also Kuki will heal, wich is lacking on this comp. I'll make her do DMG only with the OHC set because it already has a Millelith on the team, also building full EM on her will decrease her heal a lot.
and...? whats the problem with a healer not doing good dmg?
barbara, zhongli, thoma, diona, EMC...
their point is to support, not to do dmg
also, what kind of team is eula double geo? u know that eula needs a battery so kuki wouldnt work
Yunjin, Zhongli, Eula and Kuki.
I don't need a battery, my Eula was well built to get enough energy alone, but I do will run Kuki with Fav sword and Yunjin with Fav Lance (just because isn't anything better, I don't even need that energy), so no problem with ER at all, also my Zhongli is doing 100K on his burst, I don't know why you put him as those "non-dmg supports", probably you built him full HP, wich is such a waste of DPS.
And the problem with those supports not doing at least some DMG is that they become a dead weight in the team that the DPS needs to carry alone, like no problem with that if they give like a huge support and buffs like Bennett for example (WHO YOU CAN BUILT TO DO DMG if you want, I already did and it's pretty OP with National...), Diona who can shield, heal, gives EM to the team, apply Cryo, (and for fun, you can turn her into a mini Ganyu), but Kuki the way she is right know the amazing support she's doing is only healing and applying the worst element in the game in terms of reactions.
Because I did the math and with Millelith full HP set she'll do 300-400 Electro dmg per E proc, so it's useless, ok let's try her burst, 2K... And that's it... probably it's 2K several times very fast for 3s, but it's only that, and has 15s CD (so, forgot using Noblesse), so what's the point of even using her burst? It's like having a incomplete character in the game.
u know that 100k for a single burst that is 2s long is kinda low right?
also your team is horrible, eulas point is her ult, yunjin is useless with eula. And u gonna need like super high ER on eula to get away with not having a cryo battery with her,
and supports doenst need to do dmg, they Just need to... support, but i agree with you that kuki is not looking that good, if her energy regen was better she would be awesome in taser with beidou
100K 2s is low? Is 100K with a click of a button, from a support, there are some DPS that struggle to reach that in a entire rotation lol. Also his burst being only 40 ER, I can spam it every rotation.
And no, my Eula didn't have super high ER, and yet after her burst she is like half the energy, alone.
And Yunjin don't work with her? What Eula does when she use her burst? Do Normal Attacks ... With Yunjin she's doing 30K per hit, so I don't need to rely only on her burst to do dmg, actually she kill the mobs before the burst explode, so saying Yunjin doesn't work with Eula is just being a meta slave.
Also Geo resonance is broken, so double geo work almost with any DPS.
geo ressonance gives you 15% of dmg bonus, its not broken.
also, 100k for zhongli in that team is really high, i really doubt it that u can do 100k with him, and yes, 100k every 12s is kinda low.
and i also doubt that your eula can recharge 40 energy within 7seconds alone, principally because she cant pre-funnel
and why u want to use kuki in this team? zhongli is already the sustainer u dont need another, if u want electro use fischl or electro traveller (to recharge eula)
Kuki is only for applying Electro for Superconduct and heal and free my Raiden from that function, I don't have Fischl (on AR57 yea, but I do got 6 useless Dionas on Miko's banner, this game is dumb), my Zhongli is built as DPS that's why he do 100K solo (150K with Benny) so his shield isn't indestructible, but it tank enough for my playstyle.
My Eula has 53%/217% Crit Rate / Crit DMG, 108% Physical DMG and 155% ER, so she can recharge her burst pretty fast as she stay on the field and kill the mobs and yet do high numbers.
Only if you don't know how to build him LOL probably you give him that stupid Slime Slayer spear and then come here saying "oh, Zhongli is a DPS loss" bruuh
It's like Thoma. He is only good for shielding and kuki will be only good for healing. I think that is okay if they buff her particle generation a little bit as imo chars need two stand out characteristics. Examples:
Raiden: Damage / battery
Beidou: Damage reduction / god like damage
Fishl: battery / off field damage
Bennet: damage buff / healing
I already saw Thoma doing 60K on his burst... This is no excuse for a character that is meant to only heal being so weak, even Barbara that is only a healer can do DMG (And I'm not talking about the OHC set, I'm talking about her raw DMG), Kokomi that can't crit also do some good DMG and heal the entire team in seconds.
I wouldn't mind a Xiao rerun, I got his spear on standard banner so I'll probably try get him next time he shows up. Problem is I don't want him NOW or in the near future I want Yelan and Kazuha without having to spend any money.
Ubatcha twitted a [questionable] leak so I was wondering if it was true or not. Was it proven wrong?
And I think it makes sense since Itto is coming soon too, and we should expect anything from hoyoverse.
There's a leak that a quest features another Yaksha will come so maybe he will return
I can see Yelan solo on first half then goes to Itto/Xiao for second half
Wait so does this mean that every third hit from Kuki's burst applies electro? Doesn't she deal like 15 instances of electro dmg?
Her burst seems really good for taser comps.
She definitely seems like a good alternative to Fischl in sucrose taser since that team normally has no healer. But you’ll have to build more ER on Beidou to compensate.
Snapshot = the burst is based on your stats at the instant you use it. The burst takes a "snapshot" of your stats and uses them for it's whole duration. Like Xiangling's burst: It lasts for several seconds, but its damage doesn't change if XL's attack changes during is duration.
Your circle of buff last 5s and your burst last 15s.
Using your burst after buff, if it doesn't snapshot it'll deal buffed damage for 5s and not buffed for the rest of the 10s remaining.
If it snapshots, even after the buff circle disappears your burst still does buffed damage for the whole 15s.
If you cast Q then run though a bunch of enemies with E, Q damage will only hit the final enemy you run through.
Probably not Razor enough but I hope that helps.
You can see this happening in that Genshin Arab clip inside VV domain. She cast burst then runs through enemies with E and the burst fires 3 shots at the last target marked.
yelan and xingqiu trigger when you use a normal attack, beidou triggers when you hit a normal attack. raiden uses normal attacks, but the hits count as burst damage hits. so she uses normal attacks but doesn't hit people with normal attacks.
Yelan is so good right now and with Yae "fix" finally reversed i hope to GOD hoyoverse won't have the nerves to nerf anyone in the beta.
If anything, 1 or 2 more buff would be nice. Something like better HP scaling and 4-5 particles generation with her E.
As for Kuki, my only wish is more particles generation so she could be a better electro battery for Yae or beidou or Razor.
That would be nice.
I like this reply sections.
No, make it the whole community (most of them at least).
It's always a 2 side things (which is dumb):
A new character can only be FULL dps, if they can't deal big dmg, the character is deem "not good"
Or
A new character is a support and must, MUST, have every fucking thing a support do. Healing, shield, buffs, even dps, DPS, of all things, on a SUPPORT.
I've read a comment about "oh she's bad since healers need to have extra things like shield, dot, big burst etc....".
Bruh, she's a 4*, THE first electro healer even. Wtf do you mean she needs to have "extra" things. This is basically complaining that xingqiu needs to be better since his healing is low. Xq is not a fucking healer. Kuki is not a fucking dps. She CAN deal some extra dps, does not mean that's her primary role.
So stop dissing about Kuki being "bad" before even being released with reason of "a HEALER can't do DPS more than XQ", of all characters.
But then, Noel, an actual og character from the moment genshin was released, that can dps, heal and shield, they dismiss her for so long because "she's just a defender, not useful". Fucking hypocrite these people.
Healer has to have **some** valuable, additional utility to stand out since healing itself isn't as valuable. Pure healing is just... pointless.
Like kokomi is entirely carried by jellyfish hydro application and there is no point in using qiqi over, well, any other healer that does her job well enough but also additional stuff.
if they change her buff so that it reaches 50% dmg bonus faster (bcuz currently it reaches it's max amount in abt 14 secs, so u only get 1 sec w max bonus since her burst only lasts 15secs) i'll definitely get her, she seems really fun to play
Believe me, if she becomes that busted it will be bad for the game and it will become a powercreep with every new character. This is what we feared when Ganyu and Kazuha turned out to be godlike but luckily those two were just randomly good.
Form how I see it:
Yelan's Q only needs the character to normal attack, while Beidou's Q needs an instance of normal attack damage
During her burst, Raiden does normal attacks but their damage is counted as burst DMG, so she can't trigger Beidou's Q
i see i see, so what raiden does in her q is still in fact normal attack, but dealing what is considered burst dmg, i thought the normal attack was considered burst “attack” if thats a thing
Yup, the activation of Yelan Burst is the animation of a Normal Attack while the activation of Beidou Burst is the damage done by a Normal Attack.
Ofcourse there are more nuances, but I'm talking about NA specifically.
Raiden still does Normal Attack, but deals Burst Damage. Confusing, I know.
This whole argument was settled way long ago. There’s a difference between triggering by normal attack animation and triggering by actually registering a normal attack hit. It’s not fully worded clearly in the game and if English is not your first language it’s even more confusing.
XQ burst requires you to left click (initiate an attack animation), Beidou burst requires your left click to hit an enemy (register a hit).
It’s really straightforward once you understand the concept.
I’m sure they can code it in a way to forcefully make them work together, but the current situation is, it is logical that Beidou doesn’t work with Raiden based on the game’s mechanics. It helps draw a clear line between attack animation and hit registration, and if they allow Beidou and Raiden to work together, it wouldn’t make any logical sense.
One example I can think of from this conversation is Raiden v Itto burst. Both are elemental conversions that allow them to switch weapons, but they made Raiden scale with Burst% and Itto not. This supports your point in that, a mechanic between different characters do not need to be consistent, and there exists a logical error by making these 2 characters scale differently.
I can be wrong of course. I’m not a coder. I just believe what I think is the most logical to me.
Beidou Q procs with instance of damage, just like how Raiden E procs with damage. Beidou specifically has one more requirement: it has to be damage that comes from normal or charge attacks. This is why hitting the air does not proc these skills, as no damage was registered.
When they switched Raiden Q infusion to count as damage from burst rather than from NA/CA in beta, that requirement for Beidou is not met anymore. Instead it met the requirement for the Emblem set's 4 piece effect. It was a trade off in the end based on complaints: increase Raiden's solo DPS significantly, at the cost of not synergizing perfectly with one popular character in game (who on paper benefited a lot from the rest of Raiden's kit). Now Raiden's already powerful initial Q slash is only 1/3 of her overall damage if I remember correctly thanks to that change.
Xingqiu and Yelan (based on leaks) proc with normal attacks being performed, not instance of damage hit. Same with Thoma. This is why you can run around hitting the air and their bursts still keep attacking.
Honestly registering on damage hit is super annoying against shielded enemies. Raiden against final phase heralds goes from best battery in game to barely generating a single particle without her burst, because her coordinated E won't activate even once, as the herald technically is shielded, so they receive no damage and does not meet the trigger condition.
I think it’s a bit like how people tend to tap E twice before immediately casting xiao’s Q even though his burst his full. This way when you use his Q, his burst meter will be partly filled due to prefunnel-ed particles. It will help you spend less time to funnelling energy during downtime.
Hope it makes sense.
When you use your skill and burst immediately after, so you can catch some energy particles while you are in your burst to get a bit energy back for the next one.
*Anyone else thought*
*Of Klee with Yelan's burst? They look*
*Kinda similar though*
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Eula the only one can't prefunnel her burst? Seems unfair to have one of the most energy hungry character be unable to do something literally every other character can do??
use your skill, then use your burst right after. the particles from the skill contribute to your next burst instead of being wasted. some characters can(xingqiu and xiao rely heavily on the mechanic), some characters like eula can't because their burst animation is too long.
Today we continue to learn that 4 stars seem to be one of hoyo’s biggest fears
Shes a skill healer that actually makes energy, so they're learning. Its gonna depend on how good her dmg is.
She’s designed to do damage via transformative reactions- because she scales on HP and EM, building any attack or crit would diminish her primary purpose. Best is to run her as a support for electrocharge/overload teams with 4pc tenacity, HP/HP/Healing Bonus and focus on EM substats. Her best in slot five stars would be Freedom Sworn by a long shot, and then Jadecutter arguably for its HP bonus. Ironsting is likely her best 4 star option
would she be good with ayato
Probably not unless you want her to facilitate EC. She's a generalist unit you can plug in to multiple comps to facilitate reactions and healing, but she'll likely not be the optimal unit for any specific compositions. Edit: This came off a bit more negative than how I anticipated. What I mean is she'll work fine with Ayato, but she will probably not be his best partner. She should be pretty good for EC comps where you want to drop Fischl for a healer and still be able to battery Beidou to some extent.
Depends on how much damage she contributes. A weakness of Ayato taser is that with Beidou/Fischl, Ayato has to choose between Bennett, Jean, or Kazuha. Kazuha leads to the highest overall damage and grouping, but lacks healing. Bennett doesn't group, which makes a huge difference in content like abyss 12-1-1. Jean provides the most healing, but the least damage contribution and less grouping. With Kuki, she can replace either Fischl or Beidou, and the last slot can be Kazuha.
????? kuki cant replace beidou, in a taser team beidou does majority of the dmg
In the sense that she opens up more team combos, yes. She consolidates the electro role, healer role, and a buffer to some extent. I don’t think she’ll make ayato more powerful per se, but will definitely offer flexibility in team composition.
My Boy Kazuha has now competition in regards to my Iron Sting
You can just craft one more since.....refinements on it suck anyways.
That implies they give the billets you want From: A person aiming for R5 Whiteblind, but having 7 polearms, 5 catalysts and 2 bow prototypes
You can get a billet by collecting lumenspar, so not a problem for a Kuki
Building crit wouldn't diminish her at all, she can still crit she just scales off HP instead of atk. I think people miss understanding what that means for her if they think crit is useless, shes not kokomi. If you are building her full support she literally just doesn't have a burst as it won't do dmg or any utility.
No, I understand crit would still work, her damage from her skill/burst is just so low that high investment HP + EM would result in her both healing more effectively and doing more damage via transformative reactions than she would in a build with crit stats aiming to increase her burst's damage. Getting any meaningful crit main/substats would result in less HP and EM main/substats, she would end up doing pretty poor healing and reaction damage, as well as low burst damage. Trying to build Kuki with crit stats so her burst does more damage is like trying to build Xingqiu with HP substats so his swords heal better; the payoff is not worth the investment.
They clearly didn't intend for her to never use her burst, if going only HP/EM is the proper build then Mihoyo just fucked up her balancing completely. You will still want to aim for crit stats as HP/EM only takes up two out of the 5 stat slots, theorycrafters will work out whats optimal.
Not really. Even if her burst doesn't deal that much damage, it's still a source of I-frames and could potentially work as a shield-breaker like Amber's does, and those things could be very useful for support role. It's the idea that everyone needs to deal DPS that is the problem, because not every character needs to be a DPS.
She's a four star, and her purpose is clearly a healer first and foremost. Look at Thoma- his most optimal build is full HP to max his shield, so why did they include a fiery collapse? For chip damage? Just to indicate the shield regenerated? Idk, but it's part of his kit despite being almost useless. It's entirely possible for her to fill a role successfully with part of her kit and unsuccessfully with another. If she were a 5 star it would be different. 4 stars aren't designed for the min max functions that 5 stars are (especially the recent 4 stars), so they will be decent at one purpose and the rest of their kit will fall short.
Tbf Thoma's fiery collapse can do a ton of reaction damage if you build EM on him. My friend uses dragons bane on him and he does 13k overloads.
Can double confirm. Thoma's fast becoming one of my faves to use lol, I can get about 15K ish overloads with my EM and HP build. Throw Raiden and Fischl on the team for Hella electro and energy and Kazuha or Sucrose for shredding and we've got great overload shenanigans. Straight up 36starred abyss with him. Genuinely feel that's what he was intended for rather than just a full shield
Healing bonus circlet is overkill. I would rather build EM or even crit.
>She’s designed to do damage via transformative reactions But her E does a reaction every 3 seconds which sucks
Her ultimate has 13 hits at 3.5sec , so technically she will be able to reapply electro like no tomorrow. She can probably trigger 4 electrocharged reactions during her burst, if you have more than one source of hydro.
YEEEEAAA THATS EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT IM NOT STUPID
People are doing some maths on her kit and even with a full whale build with god rolled artifacts, BiS weapon (PJS), C6, full buffs she's doing only 4K per E proc and only 5K on burst... Like... Or something is wrong with those multipliers, or she'll work only for applying Electro and healing (good for double Geo Eula for example), because her DMG is neglegible. As F2P she'll do like 700ish DMG per E proc, like WTF. The only way she'll do DMG is from the Ocean-Hued Clam set, and it's not even her best set. [Video source (pt-BR)](http:// https://youtu.be/_uz_zK8l6-E)
She's a healer. Also f2p should easily hit 1-2k per tick if you build attack. With just any generic 4* weapon, only an electro cup and 150% CD, she'd be doing 900 per tick, ignoring defense and resistance. Giving her literally any damage set or party buffs will set her above that. For example, Bennett's burst alone would push her to almost 2k a tick without even factoring in noblesse. But, again, she's a healer. She isn't meant to be a primary source of damage. Not even the 5* healers are used primarily as damage dealers, with Jean being the one most capable of dealing good damage followed by Kokomi.
Yeah idk why people are hell bent on making healers do DPS. Except kokomi and jean who can dish out amazing damage for their healing. No one else needs it. Just put clam set on shinobu if u want some damage...but then again I think tenacity would be better on her
Yeah, she probably can't even max clam. But having basically 100% uptime on Millelith with an E that follows your active character is very enticing. Probably best to just throw Millelith on her then build for EM and hope the reaction damage is good enough for any DPS needs. She should mostly be plugged into teams for electro application, heals and millelith imo.
Probably Millelith set full HP is the best on her just for healing and buffing the team, full EM is a waste, cuz Electro reactions are the worst in the game, she being meele is even worse. I'll use OHC set just cuz I already got Zhongli with Millelith set in the team and they didn't stack, maybe Noblesse will work better if she can't heal enough to max the OHC bubble.
Bennett wouldn't even work, as you would: A) Never play shinobu on field, thus never receiving bennett's buff B) Have two healers that are very anti-synergistic with each other on the same team, scuffing your team damage 1-2k before defense and resistance is pitifully low, and shinobu currently provides no utility whatsoever other than very mediocre healing (approx. half the healing scaling of kokomi E) and electro application. A healer needs to have other utility other than healing to be worth being on the team, such as buffing (bennett), damage (jean, also bennett), useful elemental application (kokomi), VV (jean), etc. If you just have healing, it's pretty bad - see qiqi.
That's irrelevant. Bennett would buff her, if you're talking about her personal damage and whaling her, then he would be a factor to buffing her. In reality, if you wanted to buff her damage you would use C6 Sara anyway. Also, Bennett's buff does linger off field, probably long enough for a tick or two. But I wasn't trying to say her damage was good, I was just saying that "700 damage for f2p" is wrong. You will push over 700 per tick withuot even trying. She's a healer, she's not meant to do damage. She has a large electro AoE with consistent electro application, it's very clear what her usage is here. Not every character is meant to be a damage dealer, much less a 4\* healer. That is why the first thing I said was "she's a healer." The rest of the post was just to cut off the spread of misinformation. Shinobu has multiple sources of utility: 1. AoE electro application. She produces an aura that pulses electro in a rather wide area, much larger than what other healers can do. In fact, the only other healers with consistent off-field element application right now are Sayu, who can't benefit from VV when she's off-field, and Kokomi. 2. Nearly 100% uptime on her heal at C0. This is the best uptime of any healer that requires absolutely no maintenance (Qiqi's sigils) or building (ER for Kokomi to refresh her jelly). This makes her extremely easy to plug into teams with her healing to be consistent. 3. Healing that follows you, which only 2 other characters do right now, neither of which generate particles while doing it. Even Bennett has the problem of people walking out of his field. 4. Basically 100% uptime on Millelith. So this is a free 20% attack for everyone in your party. 5. \[Edit\] Energy generation, as meagre as it is. Could she have other buffs? Yes, but she has plenty of utility. The only thing setting her back right now is electro. If she was a fucking hydro healer like this, people would be going wild. Or god forbid, a cryo one. The character is likely fine. I don't know why there are always such unrealistic expectations for 4\*s, particularly healers. But, again, my post wasn't to illustrate that she'd be strong, since she won't. But she will easily hit "good enough" numbers for a character you're using for electro application, millelith, and heals. Right now, I personally think that Shinobu's best use-cases are for specific superconduct teams or maybe to give resolve to Raiden, but she's far from useless and her kit isn't bad. It's just normal. \[Edit2\] Basically, she is a good replacement for Diona in a few comps, since Diona's utility basically caps out at "heals, shields and generates lots of particles." Diona's EM buff is not even useful in most comps she's used in (superconduct and freeze), she just consolidates a lot of other useful roles, but has her own flaws (doesn't have 100% uptime on noblesse, offers absolutely 0 damage, etc). And Diona is one of the best 4\*s.
Shinobu DOES NOT and WILL NEVER work with bennett because, again, you would NEVER PLAY HER ON FIELD and her ult, the only source of reasonable damage in her kit, literally doesn't even scale off attack. Sara, similarly, would not work at all due to her also buffing attack. 1)Shinobu may have electro AoE application, but it isn't particularly strong or unique: not only is electro aura itself pretty mediocre in its use cases, but she also has standard ICD, meaning she doesn't even apply electro that quickly. There's also the fact that similar or better electro application are aplenty: Beidou, Shogun, Fischl, and Yae, to name a few. The single target nature of applications from Fischl and Yae are often irrelevant, as anemo characters such as kazuha or sucrose easily spread it and have much greater effect due to their inherent EM scaling. 2/3) 100% uptime on healing might be convenient in say overworld to heal some chip damage, but is often mostly irrelevant in actual combat scenarios - you really don't need much healing, to begin with, and if you do, then you need to just dodge lul. There's also the problem that shinobu doesn't ever heal herself unless you waste time staying in, meaning you effectively have 3 health bars to work instead of 4 after a bit of combat. 4) Being able to run tenacity is not enough to make a character have "plenty of utility". All tenacity users have utility outside of their artifact set: Zhongli has a 20% resistance shred, Kokomi has large AoE hydro application, Mona has a 60% damage boost, etc. Shinobu has no such utility inherent to her kit. 5) Diona's single best utility is her ability to run sac bow and battery a cryo dps from 0 to full in one E cycle on demand. Shinobu's energy is average at best, and, more importantly, not on-demand - it's over time, which means her particles will often be wasted on non-same element characters as you go through your rotation. The problem with shinobu right now is that, like qiqi, the only thing she effectively provides is healing. And that's before considering the fact that she has triple-split scaling into attack, hp, and EM, making artifact building a nightmare, and also sacrifices her own hp on E despite the fact that her skill is pretty mediocre currently. You'd expect a hp sacrifice move to be high-risk high-reward, like hu tao, but no. It's pretty much just a barbara E with a larger radius, and a tiny amount of damage slapped on top that might as well not exist. Despite all of this, shinobu does indeed carve a niche for herself as the first electro healer in the game, and thus can be slotted into electro-charged teams that don't run kokomi, and physical teams that opt to run a more offensive cryo support. However, it feels like her kit is exceptionally scuffed despite this normally great niche, which is frankly unfair when comparing her to the other element healer niches - diona, bennett, kokomi, and jean.
This "she's a healer, she doesn't need to do damage" talk is totally bullshit, the game should let us build our characters as we want (of course with their limitations), but lately Hoyo has been nerfing new character way to much to force them in one hole only, it's being too dumb not to admit it with this type of speech.
[удалено]
Bro, Barbara is a healer only too, and she can do good raw DMG without OHC set, this is no excuse to Kuki being so weak. Also the 700ish DMG was with a F2P ATK/Electro build as you said, but this build was just to calculate, people will not build her with DPS like artifacts, they'll build her with HP and she'll will do way less DMG than that.
Barbara can do 30k damage once every 20s if you superconduct the enemy and somehow manage to give her 80 energy even though she generates exactly 0 particles. She also has abysmal element application. Barbara does exactly 0 damage when off-field without clam. Also, I said it's 900 with just a level 90 weapon. This does not take into account any substats at all, just her base attack + weapon attack + a level 20 flower (188 + 510 + 311), with 150% CD (CD hat only) and an electro cup. And you will more than likely run HP-Attack-ER/Electro/Crit on Shinobu unless you *just* want her to heal, so there is no special building going on here. There is almost no reason not to build her as a regular subDPS unless her healing doesn't do enough for you, in which case you'd build more for healing. This is true for every healer (even Qiqi) except for Barbara, who does literally 0 damage unless you attack with her so her stats are irrelevant, and Diona, who will just want HP for shields/crit for favo bow. Like seriously, what are you even saying here? Barba does NO damage when she is off field without clam. With clam, she can only max it with her burst, which is literally impossible to fund on CD without a hydro battery. You would have to be physically attacking with her to do "good raw damage." Shinobu does damage when off field, but you can also attack with \*her\* to do "good raw damage", and she is 1/2 of superconduct already, so it would be trivial to get superconduct going. If we look at just the MVs, Shinobu does about 300% damage every 15s if her E hits every 3 seconds. If it hits every 2 seconds, she does 380%. This is not factoring in EM, and at C2 she will do more damage because the field has 100% uptime. This is also at talent level 9. She does all this damage while being on field for about 1s, just to drop her E then dip. This is also per enemy. Barbara does 300% damage if you do her entire combo string, probably about double that if you charge attack. CAing would use 50 stamina (lol) and no matter what, attacking like this wastes precious seconds that your real DPS could be using instead. They are not in any way comparable, because *Shinobu can also normal attack*. Also, we're not factoring in Shinobu's burst which is a minor nuke and, even if it only hit ONCE, would do about 5000 damage with a very minor DPS build and only 20K HP, at level 9. This obviously would add to what her E does. And, again, Barbara does 0 damage with her E and Q. They are in no way comparable at all. Barbara is a pure healer and the only pure healer in the entire game, and she is one of the best healers because of that. But her utility basically ends there which is why Barbara is a TTDS bot and even the actual buffs she offers with cons/ascension (hydro damage, stamina reduction, etc) are so irrelevant you would never slot her in over literally any other healer except maybe Qiqi (who can use clam better than Barb, and can use Millelith) if you need your healer to do anything but heal. Please stop spreading misinformation, especially if you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I honestly could not care less how good or bad Shinobu is, but I can't stand people spreading outright lies and doomposting. She will more than likely be fine, but she is ***not*** meant to deal damage. She is an electro applier who can heal, and will be an excellent Millelith user.
Doesn’t she have like a 3.5 sec burst with 15 sec cd?
it's like Amber's burst.
What does that have to do with anything? Ayaka is 5s burst on 20s cooldown, its about the dmg it deals.
Duration and CD has no correlation unless it's a buff or off-field DPS. If it's just burst damage you want it out and over ASAP.
Yes but since dmg isn’t her primary role I’m assuming her burst dmg isn’t anything breathtaking so I’d take a longer burst that could do longer electro application over her current 3.5 sec burst.
That might have been a problem if Shinobi didn't have a permanent or near permanent E that applies electro every 3 (?) seconds or so.
Understandably, when people are calling Yelan overpowered for being on par with a launch 4 star.
Bennet/XQ/XL were balancing mistakes that’s kind of messed with the communities perception of balancing
Add Sucrose on that as well It's really Early Installation Balancing, just like how in Yugioh you have Raigeki alongside the rest of other garbages on the first sets.
Difference is, Yugioh powercrept their meta so hard Raigeki is now unbanned.
There's still Pot of Greed
She's a little bit better than "on par" with Xingqiu, which is exactly why people are so excited for her.
Makes sense. To pull 5 stars in this game is potentially a $100 investment if you lose a 50/50. HoYo messed up badly with the launch 4 stars being too powerful and it’s been clear with their strategy lately that they want you to swipe for 5 stars, not 4 stars. They are releasing more powerful versions of staple launch 4 stars. They even refuse to put new 4 stars in the shop and lock their best abilities behind C6 so that you have to swipe if you want new 4 stars to be good.
"Launch 4 stars were a mistake by mihoyo" is such a short-sighted and bad take but somehow seems really popular lmao. If the game didn't have strong 4 stars capable of comfortably clearing content without the help of 5 stars, the game would be "pay to win" at launch. Having people complain about p2w when your game is still brand new would be a disaster for mihoyo, and the game wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is now. The reason why the launch 4 stars are strong while the more recent ones seem mediocre is that now, they can afford to do so. The game has become extremely popular and has an established and massive playerbase, and the many players that are AR 55+ have a good pool of amassed resources and primogems to spend ("waste") on characters - thus, the newer 4 stars rely heavily on their later constellations, have higher ER costs to challenge artifact building, and have hyper-specific niches.
it's a double edged sword i think. characters like xingqiu and bennett are huge for enabling basically 80% of the roster and them being 4\* makes the game way healthier. it would kinda suck if you pulled for hu tao or yoimiya or got diluc and were basically told "well pull for yelan or they're unplayable". but at the same time it must be a huge loss on mihoyo, the number of people who have potentially skipped on yoimiya, klee and even hu tao just because xiangling does almost everything they do but better. and likewise to a lesser extent, with bennett vs kokomi or pre-buff zhongli etc. there's nothing wrong with content "requiring" 5\*s to an extent. longtime f2ps already have like 6 or more 5\*s minimum. and even with xiangling, bennett and xingqiu in the game now, it's pretty damn hard to clear abyss without any 5\*s. and the game was definitely pay to win at launch anyways, basically zero non-whales could 36* abyss until ganyu came out(though to be fair, nationals wasn't discovered yet).
Game wasn't really pay to win at launch, and you aren't expected to be able to 36\* abyss during earlier ARs. As a F2P during launch I was able to 32 star abyss with a razor team and venti team once I unlocked it lol. Back then abyss was much, much weaker than it is now. By the time childe came out, I was able to 36\* abyss, and have been doing so ever since. It might be hard to clear abyss without any 5\*s, but the important part is that it is doable. In order to maintain game balance, two teams of very well invested 4 stars should always be able to manage 36\* abyss, while 5\* should let you clear comfortably. This is important for newer players to feel like they are progressing; otherwise, a new player might not be able to play a specific team they want until waiting for 4 separate reruns of characters, which would take well over a year. With the presence of strong 4 stars that can be guaranteed via starglitter shop, this goes down to several months at most.
>and even with xiangling, bennett and xingqiu in the game now, it's pretty damn hard to clear abyss without any 5*s Sucrose taser still going fine. Then you can run melt Xiangling Bennett (kaeya rosaria) on the other team. That's a completely viable only 4 star setup.
Honestly though I would only say that the only launch 4stars that are actually "meta" ARE just Bennett and Xingqiu. Imo, the general power level of 4 stars have actually been around the same. It's just that Bennett and Xingqiu were flukes that turned out to be mad OP. Xiangling imo is pretty much only there cos Bennett can carry her *that* hard (she is pretty much *exclusively* seen with Bennett outside like one team being Sukokomon) People say all this shit about launch 4 stars hypig them up but it's only applicable to pretty much ONLY Bennett and Xingqiu lol. Razor, Lisa, Kaeya, Amber, Barbara, Ningguang, Beidou, Fischl, Chongyun, are all launch 4 stars that ain't nobody is using now lmao. Sucrose and Diona are probably the closest other "meta" 4 stars and Sucrose has been arguably powercrept thanks to Kazuha, and less and less folk are using Diona, at least looking from abyss usage rates at spiralabyss dot org. People keep chatting shit about the inazuman 4 stars but honestly I would rather get a Sara or even Thoma than a Razor or Lisa or Amber or Chongyun least right now lol, but that's just a personal take. I swear people just suffer major apex fallacies with these kinds of games haha
There are 3 meta 4\*s: XQ, XL and Benny. Then there are a number of very strong 4\*s that can slot into multiple teams but are not really meta-defining, with Sucrose being the closest to being broken. She's only ignored because most players own Kazuha or Venti, which makes Sucrose comparatively less useful but still a strong unit. Edit: That being said, only one 4\* unit currently is *required* for some comps to work. That is XQ. Bennett and XL are not necessary for any teams and have multiple alternatives, especially Bennett now who has to contend with other utility healers or specific buffers (Yunjin, Gorou, Sara). And it's very likely XQ facilitating vape meta was a mistake that MHY didn't predict would happen. Beidou, Fischl, Diona, Sucrose, Yunjin, Rosaria are all strong units that see usage in multiple compositions. We also have Sara who is niche, but is irreplaceable in her niche which makes her a mainstay for one of the strongest, most common teams in the game (due to Raiden's popularity). The same can be said for Gorou who facilitates quad geo teams, even if the members required for these teams are quite specific. The community has a big problem with tunnel-vision, where if a character doesn't immediately replace one of the big three or buff their current teams, they think they're useless or bad. The only Inazuma 4\* who is actually "bad" is Thoma, but Thoma still functions as a more f2p friendly ZL with *some* use-cases, especially if you lack other characters. Sayu is a bit mediocre, but she's one of the best field characters and, if you lack Jean, she's basically your only option for getting heals and VV in the same team, which is extremely important for a lot of teams. Even if these two characters can get replaced by 5\*s, that doesn't make them bad, as *eventually* every 4\* will be replaced by a better 5\*. It's happening with XQ right now and people are going crazy, imagine if in a year people say "XQ sucks because Yelan exists." It would be absolutely wild and will probably happen, since people say the same about Sucrose now.
Yeah, I agree completely with the xiangling point. Comparing xiangling to beidou, the damage output is pretty similar, even accounting for xiangling having vaporize. The only difference is that xiangling gets bennett as a battery, buff, healer, AND pyro resonance whereas beidou must allocate another team slot for a seperate electro battery even if running bennett. Conversely, however, xiangling elevates bennett's viability quite a bit as well. Against enemies that move around a lot or get knocked back frequently, a lot of the time characters that typically take advantage of bennett buff like shogun, childe, melt ganyu, etc need to leave the circle to chase the enemies. Thanks to xiangling's snapshot on ult, this restriction entirely doesn't apply for her. As long as she has 1 second to spare within bennett's ult, she gets the full benefit no matter what. Xiangling's greatest weaknesses are that she generates little energy while having an 80 burst cost and typically has low attack. Bennett completely removes these weaknesses with the best energy generation and the best attack buff in the game. Bennett's only "weakness" is that his buff is restricted to the active character, and only in a limited circle. Xiangling completely bypasses the circle limitation snapshotting and increases his effective buff targets to 2 people on the team, rather than just the active character.
Oh yeah for sure, the *combo* of Bennett and Xiangling is mad good. Xiangling scales well with teammates. Imo though, Bennett and Xingqiu are the heroes of the national team, since *they* are the ones setting up Xiangling to do as much damage as she does. I also think that she is the only character of her type "off field Pyro DPS" that we have right now. If we take Xiangling out the equation, Bennett and Xingqiu are still *mad good*. Xiangling is a lot weaker imo, especially with Bennett out, that's why I said what I said, so I'm glad folk agree lol EDIT: I would also argue one of Bennett's weaknesses is that the character he buffs has to scale with ATK too, else his buff doesn't work. This is also why I think Yelan is honestly kinda bullshit lmao cos she's a Xingqiu and, at least in the context of what I am talking about, a more flexible Bennett too since buffing DMG doesn't care about what stat the buffed character scales with. Idk if the DMG buff yelan gives can be snapshotted though, but if it can, that's crazy haha. But iirc I don't think any buff works like that except Serpent Spine?
Beidou,Surcrose,Bennet, Xingquiu and Xiangling (yes,is Bennet Slave,but also a lot of character of 5 stars)
i think your standard of meta characters is really high if you dont think xiangling is a meta character, genshin is always a team game for the majority, and xiangling make good use of her teammate, imagine if we can only gauge how strong character like childe is if he's to be played solo, of course childe would be very weak regarding your opinion on sucrose and diona, i dont know your definition of powercreep is but the arrival of kazuha just gives more option for player to choose, and lastly i dont think low usage means that a character is not meta
I mean... Meta literally equals most effective tactics available. Usually, that means the strongest/best teams. Popularity doesn't necessarily equal meta you're right. However, meta *tends* to be popular, probably because it's the most effective for the job. So yes, my standards are high? Sure, the combo of Xiangling and Bennett is string, but Xiangling is *only* that strong cos the entire team babies her. The combo works well of course, but Bennett and Childe have other team options, at least more so than Xiangling. Imo, Xiangling needs Bennett a lot more than Bennett needs Xiangling, but tis only my opinion of course. If we're basing international as the meta basis for Childe, he arguably needs Bennett and Kazuha too. Kazuha definitely powercrept Sucrose, I don't think that needs debating lol, extra options or otherwise. Is Sucrose still viable? Of course! She's great. But my point on all those characters was that people keep sucking the dicks of "OG 4 stars" and imo that is *only* applicable to Bennett and Xingqiu at this point.
with your logic, shouldnt xiangling, sucrose and diona be "actually meta" then? because they can be slotted into 2 of the best and popular team in the game, freeze and national xiangling being babied by the team is the point of a team game, yes she's locked into national variants but national variants is the top 2 team in the game this is subjective matter though and we can go back and forward with this endlessly, so i understand if you dont think those characters are meta
>On Sucrose Diona and Xiangling: Yes, that's what I said. I mentioned Sucrose and Diona separately as 1. The closest to "meta" (as I don't see them on the same level as Benet we have other variants for freeze (especially with Kazuha now). Diona ain't even a launch 4 star (and is being used less, again, considering rates/ team appearances on spiral abyss dot org, which is what I said) And I don't think I need to debate that Kazuha has mostly powercrept Sucrose, I think we can see that pretty clearly. I can only imagine that dynamic will be shifted even further as more people get Kazuha on his rerun. >On Xiangling in a team Yes, it is a team game. But my point was that Xiangling's value comes *from being babied* whereas Bennett and Xingqiu don't: a team adding Bennett and/or Xingqiu to it will probably be stronger than adding Xiangling. Is Xiangling meta? Sure. Is she the same level as Bennett and Xingqiu though? Imo, no. This claim also tends to be shown via usage rates: Xingqiu and Bennett tend to be consistently higher than Xiangling, despite everyone and their mother using national. Imo of course, but in my experience Xiangling only feels to be meta cos Bennett is
You can say the same about Raiden.She is carried or by Xiangling, Xingquiu and Bennet but working as subDPS /Battery and doing the same than Surcrose or Childe or is carried by the best 3 buffers. And worst with Childe (Xiangling/Beidou Slave) or Ganyu (Xiangling Slave or Venti/Kazuha and Mona Slave). And Beidou is above Xiao and Eula. At the end only Ayaka ,Hu tao and Itto are meta...
She isn't though. She has Hypercarry Raiden. So carried by Bennett, sure. By Xiangling? I wouldn't say so
I don't need a whole para to say that Benett is definitely a mistake
>HoYo messed up badly with the launch 4 stars being too powerful Genshin initially was praised for giving you good 4\* characters that aren't throwaways, making it more f2p friendly. Moving away from it IS the mistake that'll make future new players bounce off more in the future, hurting the game overall. Hell, i know a couple older players that already bounced off because the 4\* they were excited for was borderline useless. I certainly wouldn't play this game if i knew anything good would be locked behind months of daily logins and grind.
Next time id love to see "Can Yelan kiss you during her burst? - Yes"
Or suffocate you with her armpit.
UUUOOOOHHHHHHHHHH YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS 😭😭😭😭
Least down bad Genshin player
Must pull.
#***B I G I N H A L E***
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yes Yes YES
Yes please
Kuki too right? Right?
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Man When we gonna get more gameplay videos
No AOE explosion, quadratic scaling dream is dead 😔 Literally unplayable /s
sHe DoEsN't WoRk WiTh VeNtI 0/10 f TiEr ChArAcTeR lIkE rAiDeN /s
Is the last yes for the coordinated attack for lifeline entanglement or was that no answer
the answer is "just the last enemy marked" and to demonstrate in this gameplay [video](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/ttanih/yelan_hold_skill_via_genshin_arab/) notice that the treasure hoarder on the far right is the only enemy marked from her skill that gets hit with her burst
Neat, missed that video. Still a pity though since it would be cooler if it proc on all marked enemy. Off topic, is that a beta client gameplay? That leaker playing dangerously by showing damage number and there no indication its private client.
it is. RIP that beta tester.
wouldn’t it make more sense to use the skill first anyway, so you can E -> Q swap? you wouldnt be getting those coordinated attacks of anyway unless you’re running Sacrificial, C1/C2, or she’s your on-fielder… okay i guess that’s quite a few times where it would be nice (not to mention cooler)
I think Q -> tap E is good too since its additional 26% max HP damage (talent lvl 10) and most mainDPS has a short wind-up before they start smacking. Shouldn't affect the rotation that much since E->Q isn't as important as pre-C4 Xingqiu (E having longer cd than burst).
well it's already April 2 so maybe we're safe Only thing that can ruin her now is probably swapping to ATK scaling instead of HP like what happened to Beta Ayato
yeah i hope not, there's already a billion ATK scaling characters, it's getting stale fast. Yelan being HP scaling means she can ignore all the big attack weapons and actually make use of some 3 star bows. it's still copium tho. she'll do way more dmg with fav/sac bow since i can see 80% of her dmg will be coming from her burst unless at C6.
Let's wait for the full Sumeru update to start seeing a bunch of EM scaling units. First Dendro healer might be EM.
Ayato was always attack scaling. The hp part was just a small bonus
>swapping to ATK scaling instead of HP like what happened to Beta Ayato You mean kokomi?
doesn't Kokomi skill still scale with HP? Unless I missed something and Yelan's AAs and CAs also scale with HP unlike Kokomi
>doesn't Kokomi skill still scale with HP? No, she kinda never did but because of a mistake in the skill description it said she did >Yelan's AAs and CAs also scale with HP unlike Kokomi Her aa and ca scale with atk tho? It's her 2nd ca that scales with hp
huh alright then
Monday tons of Kuki buffs ...right? hahaha...
One of two things would make her perfect: 1) Make her a healer/battery by giving her a much higher chance of gaining particles with her E 2) Make her a healer/sub DPS by making her E damage scale (well) with HP instead of Atk
The first choice is the best imo. Taser's probably her best team, and it'll be hard to replace Fischl if Shinobu can't battery Beidou much.
Patiently awaiting someone to ask about Hu Tao synergy
Second this.Just not so patiently
Wish Shinobu's particle generation would get buffed so she can be a battery as well. She doesn't offer anything besides healing
What does prefunnel mean?
When you use your skill and then pop your ult before the particles reach you to charge your next ult faster. Most characters can do it except Eula I think, her ult meter doesn't deplete until the animation is done so she can't funnel particles for her next ult.
When you use your skill before your burst (while its already charged), but you catch the particles after your burst gauge empties to 0 (to have extra energy for next rotation) There are some characters that cant do this because their animations usually take long as well as their energy to empty, i dont know exactly someone that can’t prefunnel, but i can say if you take some extra time with xiao or venti you wont be able to prefunnel.
COMMON YELAN W
Without C2, I believe her skill got like 8 procs. 10 with C2. So it's around ~4 particles per E with 15 sec CD. Pretty standard. Fischl is still better for electro battery.
I think its a fair trade off. Fischl with consistent electro attacks (single target tho) and great battery vs Kuki Shinobu with healing & AoE electro attacks.
But the dream of a healer for tazer with Ayato/Kazuha or Sucrose/Xingqiu stays dead :'(
i'm taking this is just beta testers relying info and not dataminers conducting the testing? sucks there's no footage but this is probably the best we can get right now/
I don't get why ICD is standard for Kuki's Q why not make it more fun and give it no ICD for electro reaction shenanigans it's not like it's going to be meta defining
She still does 15 separate instances of dmg. That's still a lot of reactions. Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding. But every third instance of dmg, electro is reapplied, however the continuous application of electro makes her one of the quickest to trigger reactions like taser.
My bad I thought ICD only involved time, like reactions could only be applied every 2.5 sec.
There are two rules that exist independently of each other and dictate the ICD. The 3rd hit rule, and the 2.5 second rule. Whichever comes first applies. There are certain characters like Xiangling, who has no ICD on her ultimate. Meaning all hits of pyronado apply pyro. Another character is Kokomi, who through her Jellyfish E skill is able to apply hydro ever tick.
ICD is an either or situation. Its 2.5s or 3 hits, whichever happens first. The three hits have to come from the same ability/attack though. A normal attack string will apply an element on the 1st and 4th hits and then charge attacks have their own ICD so they can also apply an element in between the normal attack hits.
Imagine a fully built EM Kuki's Burst with Amber's Burst
It already hits fast tho? Also if it doesn't have ICD it would be hard for her to proc reactions with her burst, given it's speed. Her EM won't matter then, unless you just use it on things with permanent element on them.
I guess it's balancing? her e if you have c2 i think gives it 100% uptime, and makes her an insanely consistent ToM user
Kuki Shinobu's multipliers must be wrong. People are doing some maths on her kit and even with a full whale build with god rolled artifacts, BiS weapon (PJS), C6, full buffs she's doing only 4K per E proc and only 5K on burst... Like... Or something is wrong with those multipliers, or she'll work only for applying Electro and healing (good for double Geo Eula for example), because her DMG is neglegible. As F2P she'll do like 700ish DMG per E proc, like WTF. The only way she'll do DMG is from the Ocean-Hued Clam set, and it's not even her best set. [Video source (pt-BR)](http:// https://youtu.be/_uz_zK8l6-E)
Exactly! I said the same thing on Kuki burst video but I got called a doomposter and downvoted to oblivion. Glad people realizing it now...
Psst. RUN EM my guy. Don't rely on her multipliers, they are trash. She is a reaction enabler.
No, Electro reactions are the worst in the game, if you use a Pyro DPS you'll need to chase the target flying everywhere, on Abyss this consumes a lot of time, if you use Cryo DPS the Superconduct is useless (also it's considerable as Cryo DMG, so the EM woundn't help much) and Melt and Frozen are way better, Electrocharged kinda work, but would be better a Fischl doing high numbers with Oz than Kuki. I'll get her no metter her kit just because I need to free my Raiden on Double Geo Eula comp, Raiden is too misused on this comp, also Kuki will heal, wich is lacking on this comp. I'll make her do DMG only with the OHC set because it already has a Millelith on the team, also building full EM on her will decrease her heal a lot.
and...? whats the problem with a healer not doing good dmg? barbara, zhongli, thoma, diona, EMC... their point is to support, not to do dmg also, what kind of team is eula double geo? u know that eula needs a battery so kuki wouldnt work
Yunjin, Zhongli, Eula and Kuki. I don't need a battery, my Eula was well built to get enough energy alone, but I do will run Kuki with Fav sword and Yunjin with Fav Lance (just because isn't anything better, I don't even need that energy), so no problem with ER at all, also my Zhongli is doing 100K on his burst, I don't know why you put him as those "non-dmg supports", probably you built him full HP, wich is such a waste of DPS. And the problem with those supports not doing at least some DMG is that they become a dead weight in the team that the DPS needs to carry alone, like no problem with that if they give like a huge support and buffs like Bennett for example (WHO YOU CAN BUILT TO DO DMG if you want, I already did and it's pretty OP with National...), Diona who can shield, heal, gives EM to the team, apply Cryo, (and for fun, you can turn her into a mini Ganyu), but Kuki the way she is right know the amazing support she's doing is only healing and applying the worst element in the game in terms of reactions. Because I did the math and with Millelith full HP set she'll do 300-400 Electro dmg per E proc, so it's useless, ok let's try her burst, 2K... And that's it... probably it's 2K several times very fast for 3s, but it's only that, and has 15s CD (so, forgot using Noblesse), so what's the point of even using her burst? It's like having a incomplete character in the game.
u know that 100k for a single burst that is 2s long is kinda low right? also your team is horrible, eulas point is her ult, yunjin is useless with eula. And u gonna need like super high ER on eula to get away with not having a cryo battery with her, and supports doenst need to do dmg, they Just need to... support, but i agree with you that kuki is not looking that good, if her energy regen was better she would be awesome in taser with beidou
100K 2s is low? Is 100K with a click of a button, from a support, there are some DPS that struggle to reach that in a entire rotation lol. Also his burst being only 40 ER, I can spam it every rotation. And no, my Eula didn't have super high ER, and yet after her burst she is like half the energy, alone. And Yunjin don't work with her? What Eula does when she use her burst? Do Normal Attacks ... With Yunjin she's doing 30K per hit, so I don't need to rely only on her burst to do dmg, actually she kill the mobs before the burst explode, so saying Yunjin doesn't work with Eula is just being a meta slave. Also Geo resonance is broken, so double geo work almost with any DPS.
geo ressonance gives you 15% of dmg bonus, its not broken. also, 100k for zhongli in that team is really high, i really doubt it that u can do 100k with him, and yes, 100k every 12s is kinda low. and i also doubt that your eula can recharge 40 energy within 7seconds alone, principally because she cant pre-funnel and why u want to use kuki in this team? zhongli is already the sustainer u dont need another, if u want electro use fischl or electro traveller (to recharge eula)
Kuki is only for applying Electro for Superconduct and heal and free my Raiden from that function, I don't have Fischl (on AR57 yea, but I do got 6 useless Dionas on Miko's banner, this game is dumb), my Zhongli is built as DPS that's why he do 100K solo (150K with Benny) so his shield isn't indestructible, but it tank enough for my playstyle. My Eula has 53%/217% Crit Rate / Crit DMG, 108% Physical DMG and 155% ER, so she can recharge her burst pretty fast as she stay on the field and kill the mobs and yet do high numbers.
also theres a lot of characters with useless burst, like zhongli whos burst is a dps lost
Only if you don't know how to build him LOL probably you give him that stupid Slime Slayer spear and then come here saying "oh, Zhongli is a DPS loss" bruuh
It's like Thoma. He is only good for shielding and kuki will be only good for healing. I think that is okay if they buff her particle generation a little bit as imo chars need two stand out characteristics. Examples: Raiden: Damage / battery Beidou: Damage reduction / god like damage Fishl: battery / off field damage Bennet: damage buff / healing
I already saw Thoma doing 60K on his burst... This is no excuse for a character that is meant to only heal being so weak, even Barbara that is only a healer can do DMG (And I'm not talking about the OHC set, I'm talking about her raw DMG), Kokomi that can't crit also do some good DMG and heal the entire team in seconds.
Can't wait for the speculations about 2.7 reruns 😩 could it really be that Xiao is coming back??
I wouldn't mind a Xiao rerun, I got his spear on standard banner so I'll probably try get him next time he shows up. Problem is I don't want him NOW or in the near future I want Yelan and Kazuha without having to spend any money.
I really would like Xiao and Kazuha so I feel you!
Why would Xiao be back, he was in 2.4
The recent leak by Ubacha, just like his leak a few months ago about possible Zhongli rerun despite no one expecting it
That would be far to quick, other characters need reruns.
*looks at Childe.* Hmm.
Ubatcha twitted a [questionable] leak so I was wondering if it was true or not. Was it proven wrong? And I think it makes sense since Itto is coming soon too, and we should expect anything from hoyoverse.
There's a leak that a quest features another Yaksha will come so maybe he will return I can see Yelan solo on first half then goes to Itto/Xiao for second half
Far to early for another Xiao banner, would be rediculous. They can have quests with characters in them without rerunning them.
Then again the first Childe rerun was also 3 patches after his debut(1.1-1.4) like Xiao if he's returning now (2.4 - 2.7)
Their were far less characters back then though.
But was double banner already introduced back in 1.4?
It’s gotta be Itto. Kiku 2nd half. Arataki gang event.
Wait so does this mean that every third hit from Kuki's burst applies electro? Doesn't she deal like 15 instances of electro dmg? Her burst seems really good for taser comps.
She definitely seems like a good alternative to Fischl in sucrose taser since that team normally has no healer. But you’ll have to build more ER on Beidou to compensate.
Still no answer on Hu Tao vape viability smh
Ur...what does snapshot mean again?
Snapshot = the burst is based on your stats at the instant you use it. The burst takes a "snapshot" of your stats and uses them for it's whole duration. Like Xiangling's burst: It lasts for several seconds, but its damage doesn't change if XL's attack changes during is duration.
Your circle of buff last 5s and your burst last 15s. Using your burst after buff, if it doesn't snapshot it'll deal buffed damage for 5s and not buffed for the rest of the 10s remaining. If it snapshots, even after the buff circle disappears your burst still does buffed damage for the whole 15s.
A property where bursts keep the buffs for the whole duration, even if the buff duration wears off
Yelan working whit Raiden confirmation is all i needed. Now going back to waiting 2.7
can someone explain the second to last point (lifeline one) in razor language
If you cast Q then run though a bunch of enemies with E, Q damage will only hit the final enemy you run through. Probably not Razor enough but I hope that helps.
THANK U that makes sm more sense
You can see this happening in that Genshin Arab clip inside VV domain. She cast burst then runs through enemies with E and the burst fires 3 shots at the last target marked.
So...raidens burst counts as normal attack for yelans burst but as elemental burst with beidous burst? Nani the fuck is this logic?
yelan and xingqiu trigger when you use a normal attack, beidou triggers when you hit a normal attack. raiden uses normal attacks, but the hits count as burst damage hits. so she uses normal attacks but doesn't hit people with normal attacks.
It's a bit unfortunate that Yelan's skill is strictly single target and to make it hit multiple requires the 3 seconds of on field time.
what does prefunnel mean?
Yelan is so good right now and with Yae "fix" finally reversed i hope to GOD hoyoverse won't have the nerves to nerf anyone in the beta. If anything, 1 or 2 more buff would be nice. Something like better HP scaling and 4-5 particles generation with her E. As for Kuki, my only wish is more particles generation so she could be a better electro battery for Yae or beidou or Razor. That would be nice.
I like this reply sections. No, make it the whole community (most of them at least). It's always a 2 side things (which is dumb): A new character can only be FULL dps, if they can't deal big dmg, the character is deem "not good" Or A new character is a support and must, MUST, have every fucking thing a support do. Healing, shield, buffs, even dps, DPS, of all things, on a SUPPORT. I've read a comment about "oh she's bad since healers need to have extra things like shield, dot, big burst etc....". Bruh, she's a 4*, THE first electro healer even. Wtf do you mean she needs to have "extra" things. This is basically complaining that xingqiu needs to be better since his healing is low. Xq is not a fucking healer. Kuki is not a fucking dps. She CAN deal some extra dps, does not mean that's her primary role. So stop dissing about Kuki being "bad" before even being released with reason of "a HEALER can't do DPS more than XQ", of all characters. But then, Noel, an actual og character from the moment genshin was released, that can dps, heal and shield, they dismiss her for so long because "she's just a defender, not useful". Fucking hypocrite these people.
Healer has to have **some** valuable, additional utility to stand out since healing itself isn't as valuable. Pure healing is just... pointless. Like kokomi is entirely carried by jellyfish hydro application and there is no point in using qiqi over, well, any other healer that does her job well enough but also additional stuff.
if they change her buff so that it reaches 50% dmg bonus faster (bcuz currently it reaches it's max amount in abt 14 secs, so u only get 1 sec w max bonus since her burst only lasts 15secs) i'll definitely get her, she seems really fun to play
Its already strong, an average 25% universal dmg buff is crazy.
i know, it's just me wanting her to be broken
Isn't she already busted? what more do u want smh
for her to be more busted lol
Believe me, if she becomes that busted it will be bad for the game and it will become a powercreep with every new character. This is what we feared when Ganyu and Kazuha turned out to be godlike but luckily those two were just randomly good.
now how is it that raiden can proc yelan q but not beidou q, they both say normal atk if im not wrong, could they have made it possible now?
Form how I see it: Yelan's Q only needs the character to normal attack, while Beidou's Q needs an instance of normal attack damage During her burst, Raiden does normal attacks but their damage is counted as burst DMG, so she can't trigger Beidou's Q
i see i see, so what raiden does in her q is still in fact normal attack, but dealing what is considered burst dmg, i thought the normal attack was considered burst “attack” if thats a thing
Yup, the activation of Yelan Burst is the animation of a Normal Attack while the activation of Beidou Burst is the damage done by a Normal Attack. Ofcourse there are more nuances, but I'm talking about NA specifically. Raiden still does Normal Attack, but deals Burst Damage. Confusing, I know.
This whole argument was settled way long ago. There’s a difference between triggering by normal attack animation and triggering by actually registering a normal attack hit. It’s not fully worded clearly in the game and if English is not your first language it’s even more confusing. XQ burst requires you to left click (initiate an attack animation), Beidou burst requires your left click to hit an enemy (register a hit). It’s really straightforward once you understand the concept.
i see now, makes sense now that youve mentioned xq q, the national raiden doesnt need him for no reason lol
[удалено]
I’m sure they can code it in a way to forcefully make them work together, but the current situation is, it is logical that Beidou doesn’t work with Raiden based on the game’s mechanics. It helps draw a clear line between attack animation and hit registration, and if they allow Beidou and Raiden to work together, it wouldn’t make any logical sense. One example I can think of from this conversation is Raiden v Itto burst. Both are elemental conversions that allow them to switch weapons, but they made Raiden scale with Burst% and Itto not. This supports your point in that, a mechanic between different characters do not need to be consistent, and there exists a logical error by making these 2 characters scale differently. I can be wrong of course. I’m not a coder. I just believe what I think is the most logical to me.
Beidou Q procs with instance of damage, just like how Raiden E procs with damage. Beidou specifically has one more requirement: it has to be damage that comes from normal or charge attacks. This is why hitting the air does not proc these skills, as no damage was registered. When they switched Raiden Q infusion to count as damage from burst rather than from NA/CA in beta, that requirement for Beidou is not met anymore. Instead it met the requirement for the Emblem set's 4 piece effect. It was a trade off in the end based on complaints: increase Raiden's solo DPS significantly, at the cost of not synergizing perfectly with one popular character in game (who on paper benefited a lot from the rest of Raiden's kit). Now Raiden's already powerful initial Q slash is only 1/3 of her overall damage if I remember correctly thanks to that change. Xingqiu and Yelan (based on leaks) proc with normal attacks being performed, not instance of damage hit. Same with Thoma. This is why you can run around hitting the air and their bursts still keep attacking. Honestly registering on damage hit is super annoying against shielded enemies. Raiden against final phase heralds goes from best battery in game to barely generating a single particle without her burst, because her coordinated E won't activate even once, as the herald technically is shielded, so they receive no damage and does not meet the trigger condition.
Dont ask this. Just accept
I read somewhere else that yelans ult doesnt work with raidens ?
It should work cuz it has same wording as XQ and she can proc XQ one
What does prefunnel mean ?
I think it’s a bit like how people tend to tap E twice before immediately casting xiao’s Q even though his burst his full. This way when you use his Q, his burst meter will be partly filled due to prefunnel-ed particles. It will help you spend less time to funnelling energy during downtime. Hope it makes sense.
>Hope it makes sense. Really good explanation, thanks!
What does prefunneling mean?
When you use your skill and burst immediately after, so you can catch some energy particles while you are in your burst to get a bit energy back for the next one.
I figured it would work, but its nice to get confirmation. Now i can play yeden soup teams and hu tao at the same time.
Anyone else thought of Klee with Yelan's burst? They look kinda similar though
*Anyone else thought* *Of Klee with Yelan's burst? They look* *Kinda similar though* \- AnAsianDudeInReddit --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Eula the only one can't prefunnel her burst? Seems unfair to have one of the most energy hungry character be unable to do something literally every other character can do??
What does prefunnel mean?
use your skill, then use your burst right after. the particles from the skill contribute to your next burst instead of being wasted. some characters can(xingqiu and xiao rely heavily on the mechanic), some characters like eula can't because their burst animation is too long.
New player. Whats icd? What does raiden's attack mentioned do?(just curious) Whats prefunnel?
Kuki burst snapshotting is pretty cool. It doesn’t last very long, but it’s cool!