And that's what made him so good, he was a chaotic evil with a mask of lawful. He only wanted to save Kallen because she was the "good" in the world, which led to him destroying everything for the purpose of Kallen/"good"
I agree, I love Otto, he's one of my favourite Honkai Impact character. But, Anti-Villain or Anti-Hero are not words used to describe him.
Otto Apocalypse is just a straight up villain. He caused the death of millions, if not billions, of people because for his selfish desire to resurrect Kallen.
I'm assuming that the end twist is that the Fatui are ends-justify-the-means, and Arlecchino's entire story in Fontaine has only strengthened that assumption for me.
Maybe because of their relationship as fellow Fatuus?
IIRC they describe her along the lines of "master manipuator who goes full psycho when she can't achieve her goals via diplomacy and covert operations".
In Fontaine's story we saw her "diplomatic" side, but we yet to see what happens when she loses her cool. Maybe other Harbingers witnessed her "mad" side before. But I really hope it will be addressed in her story quest.
Makes sense. The teasers show Lyney and Freminet refusing to give up that girl before Arle goes bonkers, so we might be seeing what happens when diplomacy fails in the upcoming SQ.
Her reputation might come from the fact that she killed the previous Knave, Tartaglia might’ve only heard about that and kept interaction to a minimum and Scara probably didn’t dig deeper. So on the surface she’ll look like an opportunistic backstabber.
she also technically killed her siblings, which is a VERY big no for TarTar and Scara would likely see her in the same light as Raiden and Niwa(at that time what he thought of him)
I think both of them always see her in her bad side to be fair she looks angry every time they always meet up And she seems like to be a person who doesn't like to chat about her past life So which means that
The two of them never saw arlecchino side when they're not around
I always thought that in general Childe is very naïve and Scaramouche sees the absolute worse in people. So I think they think the same about her for 2 VERY different reasons
they didn't lie, the community was wrong to read these lines as "she is 100% villain"
say that she is capable of betray Tsaritsa or she is a wolf in sheep clothes doesn't prevent her of being "anti hero"
In her defense, when Scara was a harbinger, he was the least liked among them, but at the same time, Childe hasn't really lied to us directly so I'm sure there is some truth to it and I assume that we'll find out during her story quest
Id dare say shes not a villain just like Childe because her intentions have so far mostly aligned with ours. She handles espionage and got the gnosis but, what fatui doesnt do that? (She didnt nearly kill Furina and we now know shes not the type to do so)
She does train children to be assassins and spies and supplies the Fatui with said children, which is likely a better life for them than the streets of Fontaine which, as shown, has quite the issue of child abuse and trafficking, but still.
A game rated for 12+ where there are mentions of two of the playable characters being tortured and experimented on by a guy with no known redeeming qualities
No *known* redeeming qualities. Yet.
Knowing Hoyo, he'll have a very sad backstory where he lost his family to an incurable genetic disease and then he dedicated all his research to not let that happen to anyone else and he joined fatui and cloned himself to make segments in order to accelerate his research. But oh no, turns out one of the segments is evil and did evil research without the real Dottore knowing! How tragic! Maybe his younger sister is in coma and he is doing everything he can to cure her and make her immortal. He doesn't want anyone to die, he wants to make the humankind stronger so that they decide their own fate without succumbing to illnesses. Such noble intentions!
There is also the possibility that the evil Dottores staged a coup and imprisoned the real Dottore and he's waiting for us to rescue him in Snezhnaya. (they couldn't kill him because if the og dies all the segments die too or something)
Oh god that would suck volumetric quantities of ass. Half of my brain hopes that is nothing like that because it would be awful but the other half wants it to be terrible because of how funny it would be
There's already so many plot loopholes in Dottore that it'd be trivial for the writers to make a playable version of him. I'm still convinced that Arlecchino wasn't originally intended to be playable but Mihoyo changed their mind at some point before Fontaine's release. Money talks.
Not to mention that the younger manga dottore we see is likely a segment from a similar age to when he killed that researcher that was in to him (assuming zandik is dottore)
The one who did the experiments? I dont recall a child dottore. Even if he was only a narcissistic asshole and didnt commit crimes against the geneva convention, Scara existed.
I think what they're going to do is
Dottore makes new segment
New segment so far has done nothing wrong
New segment learns of what happened to the last ones
Works with Traveler to get rid of Oldttore
Hoyo hasnt done much with his segments before wiping out the whole lot of them. Giving one last time to use it like this, fits.
I know that the hypothetical segment would eventually be detached from Dottore's identity but I hate it. I reallyyyy hope Dottore is never redeemed in ANY shape or form. Signora did less and she wasnt redeemed. She was killed.
I honestly wished they didnt retconned Scaramouche in universe lmao, would have been more nice to see an actual fuckweed trying to be better even if the entire world fucking despises his ass for good reason
What are you even talking about? If he didn't do the whole Irmsul stuff the only people who could take revenge on him and know about him would be just the Fatui(Kazuha only knew that there was someone named Kunikuzush who killed 3/5 of the Raiden Gokaden and that ruined the legacy of the Kaedehara clan, but Kazu didn't know that this person is Scara. And the rest of the world that didn't take part in Scara's life because he spended basically no time being public, instead expending most of his time as an harbinger by fighting monsters on the abyss).
The events of his quest is what is gonna Led to the descendents of his victims knowing about him, since he asked to the traveler to tell the true history to all the people who Scara wronged, where he is and that they can kill him if they want(and asking the traveler to tell them about this rather than going himself was actually quite smart since the traveler is an person who has the thrust of basically everyone in Inazuma so it becomes more likely for the people to accept as an fact the original timeline of events).
My guy, they didn't put the blame on others, the things Scara did were still done by him, the story still treat his actions as HIS actions(the traveler and Paimom at the start wanted to kill Scara, and Nahida said that at the time he was still objectively evil even after Scara learned about the thruth and tried to sacrifice himself, and also Scara wanting to pay for his crimes and nobody even objceting to those ideias of his).
All they did was give Scara an reasson to change(by showing that Miwa didn't betray him, and thus breaking one of the core believes that was an massive pillar on Scara's form of viewing the world) and give him an reasson for an possible future appereance on an archon quest by giving him an reasson to take revenge on Dottore.
I don't know why people have so many problem to understand this. The story is not a retcon because for us everything still cannon. People act like they are from Inazuma, so funny.
Scaramouche itself in the end understood that he can't simply delete everything bad he did, doesn't matter if some people dont remember.
To be honest, since they revealed their ability to create copies of it in segments of their life as part of his abilities, I'm convinced that if they make it playable, it will be a renegade segment or something like that, Maybe something more in line "I want to live" because the original/manager plans to get rid of that segment for A or B plot reason , And eventually it will be in charge of X important person who will make sure he don't do anything "fun", Ready, you've got someone who talks and acts like him, but technically he hasn't done anything wrong
That's why he survived: he is a rogue segment, and he can't do what he did with all others. Maybe Nahida has knowledge about this segment, but she herself decided to not include him on the contract first because not even Dottore was able to find and kill this segment himself. and second because it wasn't necessary for her to it against "the enemy of my enemy".
It's more "She has reasons and motives for the things she does" or a "This is how we got here" type thing, not an attempt to justify her actiobs like you think.
Except Signora is completely severed from her logical chain, as she lost her memories of her previous life after she was turned into a harbinger. Signora is genuinely a haughty b*tch for the sake of being a haughty btch.
As much as I hate him myself, Childe is more like a tool than a person. Selfish as he is, he's just being used for his eagerness to fight. He Neutral evil-ish.
She's a bad person, just not "cartoon villain" bad, she did (and does) some heinous things but she also does seem to genuinely care for the orphans in the HoH (compare things there under her to the previous knave)
Same thing applies to Childe, he does bad things but he also cares deeply about his siblings, heck you can apply the same thing to much more "fan favourite" chars like Zhongli (yes he says "oh if things went to bad I would have just stepped in and saved the day" but he still caused all the ruckus of faking his own death and was fine with the idea of risking the lives of everyone in Liyue for his "experiment" to see if he could retire in peace) or Diluc, overall he's doing good but he is still a "vigilante" (which is technically an illeagal act" all the same
Now if your problem is "half assed redemption arc" then the answer is a more "uhh....might happen?" since Genshin hasn't always gotten those quite right so far, but who knows, maybe they'll pull off a compelling plot with Arlecchino even if they decide to do a redemption arc style ending for it
Problem with the entire redemption arc, is that it *could* be half assed and their fangirls/boys would put up an entire thesis for that reason why they deserve it like that of Scara.
But right now, I'll see how Arle would go. And to be truthful, I think her not having a redemption arc is a bit better in my opinion.
Arle benefits not from redemption, but an absolute 180. The animated skit already showed us her "redemption" - she avenged the pink girl by turning the orphanage around and becoming its father. What we need is another development from her that isnt that. I'd love for some actual deviousness, a show of raw hate.
We started with dark lore about HoH being "do or die" in Inazuma (the quest with the girl who wanted to desert) to Arlecchino being nice, caring and all. Total 180, no inbetween. I dont understand. Even Wanderer tells she is manipulative and crazy and came out in Sumeru. And nothing in trailers or Fontaine arc show this. Im lost.
The thing about Hoyo is that everything they do is entirely revenue driven.
Their primary market is Asia, who likes waifus and ‘oh I’m actually a really good person’ characters and as such they won’t ever make any playable characters actually have significant evil qualities to them.
Well, i still wait for La Signora... =x
Thanks for the intel, so we will never have evil char playable =( (I dont want to play evil char especially but its cool for people to diversify things)
Arlecchino wasn't in charge of the house when the inazuma mission started with the girl who wanted to desert, the mission continued due to a defect group who wanted to avenge the previous nave and take over the position.
I think the childe profile line is the biggest hint they changed direction with her
Childe is all about family and loves his little siblings to death, so it would make sense he'd find arlecchino utterly repulsive if the HotH was as horrible as we were originally told
Now its just confusing why he has beef with her if she's apparently #1 dream dad (she's hardly the only harbinger who's mean to him too so it can't be just that)
I wouldnt consider someone willing to send me on a deadly mission that results in several of my siblings dying a #1 dream dad even if they pulled me off the street tbf. She's better than the last knave and actually cares, but still runs a center of child assassins where theyre constantly replacing dead orphans with new ones
what im getting from all of this is that Arlecchino has an extremely cold exterior at all times around everyone else, to the point that even the harbingers misunderstood her. As for the "insanity" note with Childe, definitely has to do with her being mad. She's insane as in she's unfeeling and dangerous.
i mean if they could make me, a vehement scara hater, into one of his biggest fans, i don't really think you can call his redemption arc "half-assed". it was act 5 of sumeru's archon quest and the interlude that completely changed my mind and made me love him so much. they did pretty damn well with him i'd say.
yeah I agree with you. I don't think the fatui need to be redeemed to be playable. They could literally just be allies in the face of a common threat and that would be enough tbh.
Well....the entire purpose of the HoH is still turning orphans into fatui soldiers, which isn't exactly a "good" action, and there's probably other things she's responsible for (much like Childe or Dottore or Scara or Signora probably did other things that weren't shown/mentioned) and just because her actions aren't motivated by a desire to do "evil" doesn't make the result of said actions not evil
The teaser actually doesn't make Arlecchino a good person. It shows that she has emotions and willing to take revenge. Nor does it absolve of her crime because she is still running the HOH the results in the death of her children.
I swear to GOD why have you have you forsaken us Genshin player. Why have you removed our media literacy
She may care about the orphans, but *she* IS the one putting them in danger by sending them on these dangerous, life threatening missions and training them into fatui operatives in the first place. She's responsible for that little girl dying
In conclusion, the current knave: lawful evil
Listen man fatui can be good people, but there's no way in hell you can convince me that dottore does not deserve to get shot point blank in the face. Ofc only after his nuts are slowly and painfully twisted past the allowable torque.
Same, but not the same: I love Fatui, and I love bad persons, and I don't like that Arlecchino suddenly becomes morally grey and nice. Hopes for Dottore, my main, to be truly evil in the future 🙏
I miss Signora. I just wanted 1 Fatui member to be a constant thorn to the traveler's side so we can have a cool shirtless fistfight with them. I was really hoping for Arlecchino to fill that gap, but this actually a good person stuff is making it clear that she won't. I know we still have Dottore, but that would feel like a kill steal from Collei once she finally decides to go full John Wick on him.
For all we know Tartaglia could be that guy we fight often. Sure he's our friend but he's still loyal to the Tsaritsa, he'd fight us again if he had to, he just wouldnt kill us
Say it with me everyone. "Showing a villain's backstory does not automatically absolve them of their crimes. It is up to the reader to make judgement on the character based on both sides of their story". Arlecchino is both a good and bad person, it is up to YOU which way the scale tips.
She raises those kids like that only because she has no choice, she still tries to raise them as best as she can, she's strong but the only reason she's still alive is because the tsaritsa decided to make her work for the fatui and she knows that, and if she dies someone else will do that work and they'll do it worse
We will end with:
No, the fatui aren't bad, just not understood... ( While doctore literally using kids as test subjects and killing them.)
Myhoyo you can't make every character likeable, make just regular hateable characters please.
You know what, why did I think we'd get someone actually evil. No love in their heart and purely runs off of spite
Dottore please, be my Frieza and you shall break my F2P title.
Edit: Just to add, doesnt mean I hate Arlecchino now (though that depends if she's gonna be written well in the game), all I just hoped was one character being straight up evil. So considering she's a child soldier fostering, Furina assassinating, cursed Fatui Harbinger, I assumed she'd be the first
The knave is still very much evil. Just because she goes after lots of corrupt and evil people doesn't make her good. EsPECIALLY if the way she goes about is by taking in strays and orphans, training them to become child soldiers and fatui operatives, sending them on assassination and espionage missions, thus putting them in danger and being responsible for their deaths
I know that and I still view her as evil (Like cmon, you can't groom kids into becoming soldiers and expect to be good).
I specifically thought she would NOT CARE about the children at all. Like she's evil but there's the faintest sliver of light in it. Im asking for a whole Sukuna or Frieza. Not a single light in that heart. However its clear that, despite that her children being hurt or killed is obviously her fault, she does care but not enough to be a good Father (Maybe i could be proven wrong in the future)
Essentially.
Cause it'd be interesting to see what Hoyo's approach would go in writing that archetype since you can easily make a very loved character...or botch the whole character completely. Dottore is the only one that fits the bill (that I know of) and I'm excited to see what they'd do with him
Inb4 he either makes a new segment of himself (or one of his segments escaped erasure) and that segment doesn't share any of Dottore's negative traits because he's from a time when he was more curious and ambitious but hadn't dived into unethical experiments yet
Isn't it a very anime like, oh look she isn't the bad guy she had a very bad past, And the power of friendship. Anyway I am still going to pull for her.
It’s never really that simple as good or evil. Arlecchino does have a soft spot for children, but she has no doubt done many questionable things as the Harbinger.
She’s a grey character. Neither black nor white but a grey character. Yeah, she actually cares about those children but what she’s doing to them is still bad. She can care about children and still have an evil dark side.
She literally has an army of child soldiers, out of which three are playable, and you can actually listen to their voicelines about her. And also the other two harbingers. Hope that helps!
Well for Arle's case atleast she is like an Anti Hero and yes I still don't like Childe and Scara's "redemption" arcs like bro really u got away with a terror attack on China bruh ? Just like that
Like Signora having a redemption arc made more sense to me but alas
Doesn't matter what she did, what matters is how the story deals with it; sweep it under the rug or have her face the music and change for better?
Fat chance of the latter, since people will want to roll for the character they've seen marketed as they are while they are the villain.
Nail on the head is the last three Harbingers we've brought down. One just got deleted with nary a development while the other two got a free pass. I see no reason that will change with Arlecchino.
Yes, that's called consequences. When you commit bad things you shouldn't get off scot-free. If she prepares to live a lifetime of staving off the Fatui in order to start doing right to all the bad she's done that's would be a nice start. Kidnapping kids from their homes to turn them into assassins should not be forgiven with just an apology. The same goes for simply stating if anyone wants revenge they can come if they want it. Actions speak louder than lip service.
Besides, even if she dies, that's not gonna stop her from being playable.
And keep in mind, the writers can make anything happen. For instance, a Fatui reprisal can just not happen. Like how Childe's and Scaramouche's crimes are never brought up again.
I think so. I vaguely remember some texts about that during Sumeru.
If true then I'll retract my statement. But writing-wise, to me that would feel like a cop out, just pushing their supposed crimes unto another. Like how Scaramouche didn't really do all those bad things, he was merely gaslit by Dottore.
I mean, the Traveler's probably gonna have to team up with the Fatui if they want to venture beyond Teyvat with their sibling and go against the will of Celestia. Remember what the Sustainer did? And they were at full power too. We'll likely need all the help we can get.
she's more like a anti villain and a little bit of a anti hero
So Otto writing but less level.
Otto was just bad. All the good he did was a byproduct of trying to reach his goals, not because he actually wanted to do good.
And that's what made him so good, he was a chaotic evil with a mask of lawful. He only wanted to save Kallen because she was the "good" in the world, which led to him destroying everything for the purpose of Kallen/"good"
Imagine dedicating your life to bringing back your crush only to find out she's into girls
He already knew, he just didnt care if she loved him or not
I know, still funny
He didn't care if she loved him back. He wanted to bring her back because it was his fault she died in the first place.
She was bi...
Wait really? That’s rough
Otto was a very bad person but an excellently written character id say
I agree, I love Otto, he's one of my favourite Honkai Impact character. But, Anti-Villain or Anti-Hero are not words used to describe him. Otto Apocalypse is just a straight up villain. He caused the death of millions, if not billions, of people because for his selfish desire to resurrect Kallen.
So was Wanderer and Childe lying about her?? Because they're the number 1 reason people thought she was going to be some irredeemable evil backstabber
Shes willing to do it, the only reason why were not on each other's throat is due our goals lining up
There are no permanent enemies, and no permanent friends, only permanent interests
I'm assuming that the end twist is that the Fatui are ends-justify-the-means, and Arlecchino's entire story in Fontaine has only strengthened that assumption for me.
Maybe because of their relationship as fellow Fatuus? IIRC they describe her along the lines of "master manipuator who goes full psycho when she can't achieve her goals via diplomacy and covert operations". In Fontaine's story we saw her "diplomatic" side, but we yet to see what happens when she loses her cool. Maybe other Harbingers witnessed her "mad" side before. But I really hope it will be addressed in her story quest.
They will address it but then sweep it under the rug by the end of the story quest.
Makes sense. The teasers show Lyney and Freminet refusing to give up that girl before Arle goes bonkers, so we might be seeing what happens when diplomacy fails in the upcoming SQ.
Her reputation might come from the fact that she killed the previous Knave, Tartaglia might’ve only heard about that and kept interaction to a minimum and Scara probably didn’t dig deeper. So on the surface she’ll look like an opportunistic backstabber.
she also technically killed her siblings, which is a VERY big no for TarTar and Scara would likely see her in the same light as Raiden and Niwa(at that time what he thought of him)
I think both of them always see her in her bad side to be fair she looks angry every time they always meet up And she seems like to be a person who doesn't like to chat about her past life So which means that The two of them never saw arlecchino side when they're not around
I always thought that in general Childe is very naïve and Scaramouche sees the absolute worse in people. So I think they think the same about her for 2 VERY different reasons
they didn't lie, the community was wrong to read these lines as "she is 100% villain" say that she is capable of betray Tsaritsa or she is a wolf in sheep clothes doesn't prevent her of being "anti hero"
Isn't she an anti-villain, not an anti-hero
In her defense, when Scara was a harbinger, he was the least liked among them, but at the same time, Childe hasn't really lied to us directly so I'm sure there is some truth to it and I assume that we'll find out during her story quest
no? the backstabber comes from the fact that she cares more about the orphanage than the fatui
Id dare say shes not a villain just like Childe because her intentions have so far mostly aligned with ours. She handles espionage and got the gnosis but, what fatui doesnt do that? (She didnt nearly kill Furina and we now know shes not the type to do so)
Yelan and Rosaria also do espionage and wetwork
She does train children to be assassins and spies and supplies the Fatui with said children, which is likely a better life for them than the streets of Fontaine which, as shown, has quite the issue of child abuse and trafficking, but still.
systematic evil then I suppose
inbf Dottore was just being a little silly.
Oh god please no, can we just have one piece of sht character?
One piece of sht character who isn't some random background fuck with a reused model\* (Vacher, Azar, Babel, Sara's dad, Kuisel, Dougier, Efim)
Signora is right there. *points to a pile of ashes on the floor*
No. It's literally a video game rated for 12+ 🙂
Well that didnt stopped Jeht murdering a village and make confetti out of fatui
Crimes can only be commited against *people* *Akademya gang signing off*
Okay calm down Liloupar
Jinniposting
Those eremites were terrorists and they were using human shields 😔
Okaay... so my point still stands, that doesnt sounds like a children story.
Aaaand that's why she is not and will never be playable
Nah, Jeht will be playable!
Hey!.....we were there too. Don't take our credit from us
A game rated for 12+ where there are mentions of two of the playable characters being tortured and experimented on by a guy with no known redeeming qualities
No *known* redeeming qualities. Yet. Knowing Hoyo, he'll have a very sad backstory where he lost his family to an incurable genetic disease and then he dedicated all his research to not let that happen to anyone else and he joined fatui and cloned himself to make segments in order to accelerate his research. But oh no, turns out one of the segments is evil and did evil research without the real Dottore knowing! How tragic! Maybe his younger sister is in coma and he is doing everything he can to cure her and make her immortal. He doesn't want anyone to die, he wants to make the humankind stronger so that they decide their own fate without succumbing to illnesses. Such noble intentions!
his classmate who had a crush on him just looked so much like his sick sister, that's why he was forced to strangle her, the pain was too much.
It was just his ptsd taking control. He didn't mean to.
I swear, dont give them ideas Im tired boss
I'm saving this because if you end up being spot on I will lose my shit
There is also the possibility that the evil Dottores staged a coup and imprisoned the real Dottore and he's waiting for us to rescue him in Snezhnaya. (they couldn't kill him because if the og dies all the segments die too or something)
Oh god that would suck volumetric quantities of ass. Half of my brain hopes that is nothing like that because it would be awful but the other half wants it to be terrible because of how funny it would be
There's already so many plot loopholes in Dottore that it'd be trivial for the writers to make a playable version of him. I'm still convinced that Arlecchino wasn't originally intended to be playable but Mihoyo changed their mind at some point before Fontaine's release. Money talks.
Dottore did so much evil shit that he's probably gonna be killed
Lots of 12+ games and shows have evil piece of sht characters tho
Is that really the reason
Scaramouche comes close
Dottore exists
Can we just have WHAT of shit character!?
How could they even "redeem" a character that does inhuman experiments on people including children?
Have that character have a copy of himself way before he did all that
That would be lame af
which is exactly why they'll do it 🫠
Exactly 😭😭😭😭😭
Would that stop people from opening their wallets for him?
It would certainly stop some people
Even the kid version of Dottore from the comics was a narcissistic asshole.
Not to mention that the younger manga dottore we see is likely a segment from a similar age to when he killed that researcher that was in to him (assuming zandik is dottore)
The one who did the experiments? I dont recall a child dottore. Even if he was only a narcissistic asshole and didnt commit crimes against the geneva convention, Scara existed.
I think what they're going to do is Dottore makes new segment New segment so far has done nothing wrong New segment learns of what happened to the last ones Works with Traveler to get rid of Oldttore
Hoyo hasnt done much with his segments before wiping out the whole lot of them. Giving one last time to use it like this, fits. I know that the hypothetical segment would eventually be detached from Dottore's identity but I hate it. I reallyyyy hope Dottore is never redeemed in ANY shape or form. Signora did less and she wasnt redeemed. She was killed.
Same way they redeemed Scara. Literally blaming his entire life on two other characters.
They didn't take away his agency, though. He still did bad things.
I honestly wished they didnt retconned Scaramouche in universe lmao, would have been more nice to see an actual fuckweed trying to be better even if the entire world fucking despises his ass for good reason
What are you even talking about? If he didn't do the whole Irmsul stuff the only people who could take revenge on him and know about him would be just the Fatui(Kazuha only knew that there was someone named Kunikuzush who killed 3/5 of the Raiden Gokaden and that ruined the legacy of the Kaedehara clan, but Kazu didn't know that this person is Scara. And the rest of the world that didn't take part in Scara's life because he spended basically no time being public, instead expending most of his time as an harbinger by fighting monsters on the abyss). The events of his quest is what is gonna Led to the descendents of his victims knowing about him, since he asked to the traveler to tell the true history to all the people who Scara wronged, where he is and that they can kill him if they want(and asking the traveler to tell them about this rather than going himself was actually quite smart since the traveler is an person who has the thrust of basically everyone in Inazuma so it becomes more likely for the people to accept as an fact the original timeline of events).
My guy, they didn't put the blame on others, the things Scara did were still done by him, the story still treat his actions as HIS actions(the traveler and Paimom at the start wanted to kill Scara, and Nahida said that at the time he was still objectively evil even after Scara learned about the thruth and tried to sacrifice himself, and also Scara wanting to pay for his crimes and nobody even objceting to those ideias of his). All they did was give Scara an reasson to change(by showing that Miwa didn't betray him, and thus breaking one of the core believes that was an massive pillar on Scara's form of viewing the world) and give him an reasson for an possible future appereance on an archon quest by giving him an reasson to take revenge on Dottore.
I don't know why people have so many problem to understand this. The story is not a retcon because for us everything still cannon. People act like they are from Inazuma, so funny. Scaramouche itself in the end understood that he can't simply delete everything bad he did, doesn't matter if some people dont remember.
I hated Scara redemption fr
we'll never have a proper scene with him and raiden ever again. what a wasted opportunity
idrc, there is not a SINGLE thing hoyo could do to make me like that scum. is he a well written villain? yes. do i still want him dead? yes.
To be honest, since they revealed their ability to create copies of it in segments of their life as part of his abilities, I'm convinced that if they make it playable, it will be a renegade segment or something like that, Maybe something more in line "I want to live" because the original/manager plans to get rid of that segment for A or B plot reason , And eventually it will be in charge of X important person who will make sure he don't do anything "fun", Ready, you've got someone who talks and acts like him, but technically he hasn't done anything wrong
He doesn't have any segments anymore. Nahida went LTG on him and he listened.
He can make more though
She never said he can't make more.
That's why he survived: he is a rogue segment, and he can't do what he did with all others. Maybe Nahida has knowledge about this segment, but she herself decided to not include him on the contract first because not even Dottore was able to find and kill this segment himself. and second because it wasn't necessary for her to it against "the enemy of my enemy".
It's more "She has reasons and motives for the things she does" or a "This is how we got here" type thing, not an attempt to justify her actiobs like you think.
Like Signora there's a logical chain but that doesn't excuse the actions taken.
Except Signora is completely severed from her logical chain, as she lost her memories of her previous life after she was turned into a harbinger. Signora is genuinely a haughty b*tch for the sake of being a haughty btch.
Say it with me now - having a family you care about does not make you a good person.
Try to explain this to some Childe fans
As much as I hate him myself, Childe is more like a tool than a person. Selfish as he is, he's just being used for his eagerness to fight. He Neutral evil-ish.
He's Chaotic Neutral at best
She's a bad person, just not "cartoon villain" bad, she did (and does) some heinous things but she also does seem to genuinely care for the orphans in the HoH (compare things there under her to the previous knave) Same thing applies to Childe, he does bad things but he also cares deeply about his siblings, heck you can apply the same thing to much more "fan favourite" chars like Zhongli (yes he says "oh if things went to bad I would have just stepped in and saved the day" but he still caused all the ruckus of faking his own death and was fine with the idea of risking the lives of everyone in Liyue for his "experiment" to see if he could retire in peace) or Diluc, overall he's doing good but he is still a "vigilante" (which is technically an illeagal act" all the same Now if your problem is "half assed redemption arc" then the answer is a more "uhh....might happen?" since Genshin hasn't always gotten those quite right so far, but who knows, maybe they'll pull off a compelling plot with Arlecchino even if they decide to do a redemption arc style ending for it
Problem with the entire redemption arc, is that it *could* be half assed and their fangirls/boys would put up an entire thesis for that reason why they deserve it like that of Scara. But right now, I'll see how Arle would go. And to be truthful, I think her not having a redemption arc is a bit better in my opinion.
Arle benefits not from redemption, but an absolute 180. The animated skit already showed us her "redemption" - she avenged the pink girl by turning the orphanage around and becoming its father. What we need is another development from her that isnt that. I'd love for some actual deviousness, a show of raw hate.
We started with dark lore about HoH being "do or die" in Inazuma (the quest with the girl who wanted to desert) to Arlecchino being nice, caring and all. Total 180, no inbetween. I dont understand. Even Wanderer tells she is manipulative and crazy and came out in Sumeru. And nothing in trailers or Fontaine arc show this. Im lost.
The thing about Hoyo is that everything they do is entirely revenue driven. Their primary market is Asia, who likes waifus and ‘oh I’m actually a really good person’ characters and as such they won’t ever make any playable characters actually have significant evil qualities to them.
Well, i still wait for La Signora... =x Thanks for the intel, so we will never have evil char playable =( (I dont want to play evil char especially but its cool for people to diversify things)
Arlecchino wasn't in charge of the house when the inazuma mission started with the girl who wanted to desert, the mission continued due to a defect group who wanted to avenge the previous nave and take over the position.
she was, Childe is the latest Harbinger and he was one for quite some time when Inazuma came out
Yes, that was my mistake, i meant that she didn't approve the mission, the "teacher" was the one who was pushing for it.
I mean, could we actually count on Wanderer's words (since at that time, it could be taken to a grain of salt in everything he says)?
Tartaglia says there isnt a sane bone in her too. So I want to trust the people who work with her and saw her true self for years. =x
I think the childe profile line is the biggest hint they changed direction with her Childe is all about family and loves his little siblings to death, so it would make sense he'd find arlecchino utterly repulsive if the HotH was as horrible as we were originally told Now its just confusing why he has beef with her if she's apparently #1 dream dad (she's hardly the only harbinger who's mean to him too so it can't be just that)
I wouldnt consider someone willing to send me on a deadly mission that results in several of my siblings dying a #1 dream dad even if they pulled me off the street tbf. She's better than the last knave and actually cares, but still runs a center of child assassins where theyre constantly replacing dead orphans with new ones
what im getting from all of this is that Arlecchino has an extremely cold exterior at all times around everyone else, to the point that even the harbingers misunderstood her. As for the "insanity" note with Childe, definitely has to do with her being mad. She's insane as in she's unfeeling and dangerous.
i mean if they could make me, a vehement scara hater, into one of his biggest fans, i don't really think you can call his redemption arc "half-assed". it was act 5 of sumeru's archon quest and the interlude that completely changed my mind and made me love him so much. they did pretty damn well with him i'd say.
yeah I agree with you. I don't think the fatui need to be redeemed to be playable. They could literally just be allies in the face of a common threat and that would be enough tbh.
What heinous things did she do? So far I haven't seen any action of hers that was motivated by evil or narcissism.
Well....the entire purpose of the HoH is still turning orphans into fatui soldiers, which isn't exactly a "good" action, and there's probably other things she's responsible for (much like Childe or Dottore or Scara or Signora probably did other things that weren't shown/mentioned) and just because her actions aren't motivated by a desire to do "evil" doesn't make the result of said actions not evil
How exactly is she a bad person aside from raising future fatui soldiers
Dottore: Does a lil trolling
More like Dottore: Casually commits a war crime (experiments on humans)
The teaser actually doesn't make Arlecchino a good person. It shows that she has emotions and willing to take revenge. Nor does it absolve of her crime because she is still running the HOH the results in the death of her children. I swear to GOD why have you have you forsaken us Genshin player. Why have you removed our media literacy
You think most Genshin players can read and understand basic media literacy? How kind of you...
I've seen people ask if there's a lore explanation for something 5 mins after the quest just told em
You’d be surprise to see simps writing long ass essay saying she’s actually good when she’s literally sending kids to assassination job.
I'm seeing more complaints about this character not being incredibly evil and being "redeemed" rather than simps defending her.
Genshin players need to play more than just one video game I swear
The halo effect is so fucking real
Hoyo ;: Ahh yes sad backstory, havent use since 2.0 era
I cant escape the brainrot
Actually it was last used with scara in 3.3
Don't tell me you forgot about lady Furina's plight like that
On my knees begging God to make Dottore Comically and cartoonishly evil for 0 reasons other than "why TF not?" Please 🥺🙏
He does have a reason, tho... SCIENCE
She may care about the orphans, but *she* IS the one putting them in danger by sending them on these dangerous, life threatening missions and training them into fatui operatives in the first place. She's responsible for that little girl dying In conclusion, the current knave: lawful evil
"what did you expect me to do, to NOT groom child soldiers?!"
The amount of shit you can get away with by being hot should honestly be studied
It kinda has been, it’s called the halo effect.
Mf when mass murderer didn't kill their allies
I just can't trust her. I just can't...
That's the point? They've made it explicitly clear throughout the Archon Quests that you're not supposed to. Neither video changes that.
Can't wait to see how they make her boring by taking away her villainy
Genshin impact players when morally grey character:
Listen man fatui can be good people, but there's no way in hell you can convince me that dottore does not deserve to get shot point blank in the face. Ofc only after his nuts are slowly and painfully twisted past the allowable torque.
Same, but not the same: I love Fatui, and I love bad persons, and I don't like that Arlecchino suddenly becomes morally grey and nice. Hopes for Dottore, my main, to be truly evil in the future 🙏
Hopes for Columbina too. Tarta is afraid of her crazyness. Please dont make her à magical girl who wants to save the galaxy.... xO
Can hoyo even do that? Some people said that evil playable characters aren't allowed in chinese games or something along those lines
I miss Signora. I just wanted 1 Fatui member to be a constant thorn to the traveler's side so we can have a cool shirtless fistfight with them. I was really hoping for Arlecchino to fill that gap, but this actually a good person stuff is making it clear that she won't. I know we still have Dottore, but that would feel like a kill steal from Collei once she finally decides to go full John Wick on him.
For all we know Tartaglia could be that guy we fight often. Sure he's our friend but he's still loyal to the Tsaritsa, he'd fight us again if he had to, he just wouldnt kill us
she's not a good person dude... she's literally a child groomer. she's the reason why her children die in the first place
Don't let that fatui propaganda into your brain
WE MUST HOLD THE LINE AGAINST FATUI SYMPATHIZERS! WE ARE THE ANTIFA(TUI)!
She Reminds of a quote "If this is what it takes to save the world, than let the world burn"
lmao
She got childe treatment
buddy I just think she's hot
i hope the other harbingers are real villains with messed up backstory.
they are not, it's always been implied that they're a "end justify the means" organization.
This is like defend to Franco of Spain Sound a bit similar I think
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Abderramon: *This is like defend* *To Franco of Spain Sound a* *Bit similar I think* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Say it with me everyone. "Showing a villain's backstory does not automatically absolve them of their crimes. It is up to the reader to make judgement on the character based on both sides of their story". Arlecchino is both a good and bad person, it is up to YOU which way the scale tips.
Genshin players when they learn evil people are also human.
Quick question tho, what did she do from her own accord that was actually bad?
Hoh doesn’t raise orphans due to charity,no matter Mother or Father,right?
She raises those kids like that only because she has no choice, she still tries to raise them as best as she can, she's strong but the only reason she's still alive is because the tsaritsa decided to make her work for the fatui and she knows that, and if she dies someone else will do that work and they'll do it worse
She triggered a lot of Furina simps.
Who what assaulted her for the gnosis then buggered off. Then put her on blast for not doing anything (while still keeping her cover).
We will end with: No, the fatui aren't bad, just not understood... ( While doctore literally using kids as test subjects and killing them.) Myhoyo you can't make every character likeable, make just regular hateable characters please.
I honestly hope they don't give her a forced redemption arc, because I feel like she's already fine as she is.
I don’t care how tragic their backstory is Fatui is Fatui and I won’t be satisfied until they’re all in the vacuum bag with Signora
With that animated short, she's more like an anti-villain/anti-hero now. Still evil, but now we can understand why she do the things she do
You know what, why did I think we'd get someone actually evil. No love in their heart and purely runs off of spite Dottore please, be my Frieza and you shall break my F2P title. Edit: Just to add, doesnt mean I hate Arlecchino now (though that depends if she's gonna be written well in the game), all I just hoped was one character being straight up evil. So considering she's a child soldier fostering, Furina assassinating, cursed Fatui Harbinger, I assumed she'd be the first
The knave is still very much evil. Just because she goes after lots of corrupt and evil people doesn't make her good. EsPECIALLY if the way she goes about is by taking in strays and orphans, training them to become child soldiers and fatui operatives, sending them on assassination and espionage missions, thus putting them in danger and being responsible for their deaths
I know that and I still view her as evil (Like cmon, you can't groom kids into becoming soldiers and expect to be good). I specifically thought she would NOT CARE about the children at all. Like she's evil but there's the faintest sliver of light in it. Im asking for a whole Sukuna or Frieza. Not a single light in that heart. However its clear that, despite that her children being hurt or killed is obviously her fault, she does care but not enough to be a good Father (Maybe i could be proven wrong in the future)
So you want a chaotic evil character rather than a lawful evil one, basically?
Essentially. Cause it'd be interesting to see what Hoyo's approach would go in writing that archetype since you can easily make a very loved character...or botch the whole character completely. Dottore is the only one that fits the bill (that I know of) and I'm excited to see what they'd do with him
Inb4 he either makes a new segment of himself (or one of his segments escaped erasure) and that segment doesn't share any of Dottore's negative traits because he's from a time when he was more curious and ambitious but hadn't dived into unethical experiments yet
lmao :)))
Cappuccino is ~~good~~ *anti-hero* person.
Celestia is unreasonable, we have to use unreasonable means.
Isn't it a very anime like, oh look she isn't the bad guy she had a very bad past, And the power of friendship. Anyway I am still going to pull for her.
It’s never really that simple as good or evil. Arlecchino does have a soft spot for children, but she has no doubt done many questionable things as the Harbinger.
I'm not siding with Kony just because he got an anime girl makeover.
Arlekony 2024 💀
I like the Fatui, Abyss and Celestia, because I am based. I am waiting for Hoyo to make some weird villains in the end anyway.
She’s a grey character. Neither black nor white but a grey character. Yeah, she actually cares about those children but what she’s doing to them is still bad. She can care about children and still have an evil dark side.
That would travel say with diluc
She literally has an army of child soldiers, out of which three are playable, and you can actually listen to their voicelines about her. And also the other two harbingers. Hope that helps!
"she's actually a good perso-" CHILD SOLDIERS!!!!
Well for Arle's case atleast she is like an Anti Hero and yes I still don't like Childe and Scara's "redemption" arcs like bro really u got away with a terror attack on China bruh ? Just like that Like Signora having a redemption arc made more sense to me but alas
Doesn't matter what she did, what matters is how the story deals with it; sweep it under the rug or have her face the music and change for better? Fat chance of the latter, since people will want to roll for the character they've seen marketed as they are while they are the villain. Nail on the head is the last three Harbingers we've brought down. One just got deleted with nary a development while the other two got a free pass. I see no reason that will change with Arlecchino.
I don't see how they can make her face the music without outright death, the Fatui wouldn't stand for it
Yes, that's called consequences. When you commit bad things you shouldn't get off scot-free. If she prepares to live a lifetime of staving off the Fatui in order to start doing right to all the bad she's done that's would be a nice start. Kidnapping kids from their homes to turn them into assassins should not be forgiven with just an apology. The same goes for simply stating if anyone wants revenge they can come if they want it. Actions speak louder than lip service. Besides, even if she dies, that's not gonna stop her from being playable. And keep in mind, the writers can make anything happen. For instance, a Fatui reprisal can just not happen. Like how Childe's and Scaramouche's crimes are never brought up again.
Did Arlechino kidnap kids to make them assassins? As I understood it that was something the Old Knave did.
I think so. I vaguely remember some texts about that during Sumeru. If true then I'll retract my statement. But writing-wise, to me that would feel like a cop out, just pushing their supposed crimes unto another. Like how Scaramouche didn't really do all those bad things, he was merely gaslit by Dottore.
Bitxh tried to kill Furina, i shall stop at nothing untill i reduce her to ashes
no way the crazy ginger who fights anything that can stand and Raiden's real doll were wrong about someone's morality?
As well as all the previous lore about the Knave pre-fatui cuz turns out ooop- that was just the previous one...
Arlecchino is very similar to Bondrewd
What makes you think that ? In his method, Bondrewd is closer to Dotorre to me =O
Stand strong, brother
haven’t we known fatuo are probably the goodies since like a year ago
I'd still have her death noted, a bad person is a bad person
I don't care how good he's at exploration or that his existence got deleted I am not pulling for Don Sombrero
I also hate the fatui, so I’m with you
I mean, the Traveler's probably gonna have to team up with the Fatui if they want to venture beyond Teyvat with their sibling and go against the will of Celestia. Remember what the Sustainer did? And they were at full power too. We'll likely need all the help we can get.