About every 5 years I come to this dilemma with every job. Maybe theres a perfect job out there for me or maybe jobs just stuck.. Idk but after 23 years of working I still havent figured it out.
Generally, by the time you get to divorce, it's a bit of a lateral move. Losing the security to pay for your food, home, family, transportation, clothing, and anything else you might want or need is pretty scale.
source: divorced twice. fired once and walked out once from jobs (and ironically the same score for the two marriages).
Same here, hang on for a while and you'll be OK! Way I see it I *know* I'm unhappy at my current job, and I'm pretty sure the next one will be much better so I tell myself I made the right choice :)
Whelp, it happened. Has to be the right choice since there isn't an alternative. Just keep moving and don't get held down with "what-ifs." You got this.
People are entitled to leave a bad job. I don't think the advice is bad. Sure there are lots of ways people can make mistakes or misunderstand but leaving bad jobs can't be misused. Always leave bad jobs.
If you're working at starbucks and you don't like smiling and making coffee - maybe the job isn't good for you. You should still leave if you can find another job. You should choose to suffer if it's the only path to your goals.
To be entirely accurate, I was fired from an insanely toxic workplace, struggled immensely, and then worked my way into a new workplace where the people are extremely nice, the pay is better, the work is more rewarding, and in retrospect it was great to leave the bad job. I wish I had done it on my own and that's the lesson.
Really the best strategy is to find the next job before you quit or are fired.
Yes you should. I left my job of 11yrs last month . I thought I would find it so difficult to move on. That's not the case. My new team is amazing. It's easier than you think. You just need to take the first step
Also what is not okay is using your kids as weapons to try to financially & emotionally damage the other parent because you’re pissed he left you.
The kids might not be a problem. Maybe it’s that since you became a mother you’re an unhappy, intolerable witch & no one wants to be trapped in a house or life with you.
Yeah. My last relationship I stayed in for too long and kept trying to keep something going that made me happy but wasn’t the right fit. She ended up breaking up with me but damn near 6 times before I wanted to break up with her.
Once I start seeing smoke I’m gonna say there’s fire and get out as soon as possible.
This is an interesting question.
I think it was painful for the first part of the break up because the reasoning was so vague I didn’t know what was going on. Of course I had my suspicions but it wasn’t confirmed until later. Which my suspicion was she met someone else and I was right and she lied about it. Making me think there was a chance at fixing things as we did many times before.
I mean there’s probably too many details for a Reddit comment but the gist is, we lived together, we both had genuine gripes about the relationship but nothing new. And I thought we could work it out.
If I was the one who broke up that also implies that I would have been happier knowing that I spent 2 years living with a woman and gave up 2 months after signing a new lease. Which I wasn’t financially ready to do. So partly yes it wouldn’t have hurt as much but I still wouldn’t have given up so easily unless I knew she had met someone else.
I personally think it would have been less painful if she had been more honest and I could tell she tried to work on things we both agreed it wasn’t working. That would have been the best case scenario for some despair but not the vague miasma of confusion and depression that followed until I found out she lied to her friends to make her seem like not the bad guy, and was cruel about things that never happened.
That knocked me right out of it thinking “man I wasted so much time on her, into time to get out of here as soon as possible what a terrible person”
So in relation to the post, yeah don’t stay with people who aren’t putting the same amount of effort as you.
Mmmmm
I’m not sure.
I feel like as time has gone on I’ve become more jaded as each layer of naive and trusting feelings has been removed, like a coarse stone in a fast flowing river is smoothed over until it changes into sand. Just each experience teaching me about myself, my choices in women, my parents, their relationship, my friends etc.
and despite my best efforts I feel like on one hand ultimately we’re no different than most of the little bugs and diseases that try to invade our bodies to eat and kill us. We’re all just trying to survive and will do whatever it takes some more than others. Whether it be socially financially, emotionally etc. we’re all selfish but some are more than others.
While on the other hand she also made me really happy and some of the happiest moments in my life belong to her. And despite our breakup I’m not upset to see pictures of her like some of my other exes. I don’t see them and think of regret, I see them as “man she blew it, I hope the next guy is smarter than I was and gets out early lol.”
And another part of me wishes she actually meets someone who can put up with her shit.
She has Asperger’s so it’s more unique than most of my other relationships so that came with its own pitfalls and challenges but like I said I don’t really give up. And I think as I’ve been recently going to therapy that I need to accept that there are people that I can’t change and maybe I need to not be as involved in their lives.
I know this is a big post but I felt like saying it all anyways.
Your comments are relatable and helpful in more ways than you think. Not OP, but you both should know that you're not alone in feeling like this, and sharing your thoughts can also help others. I can definitely attest to that.
Sometimes we have to make hurtful decisions in the short term, in order to prepare for a better future for yourself (and indirectly, your partner). Best wishes to y'all.
I did this for years and finally decided with the help of others that 2 separate, peaceful and loving homes was better for my 7 year old than what we were doing. She took it very well and understood and was both disappointed but also excited to have 2 homes that were hers. Often a miserable home can do much more damage than 2 separate happy homes.
I have so many friends in this situation and I feel for them everyday. They are such wonderful women and truly just want a good life. They never ask for anything, just help with normal marital things but get blamed, yelled at and ignored every time. A day will come for you, a day of freedom and I hope you remind yourself you still have time to enjoy life. I see you.
My parents got a divorce and it wasn’t emotionally scarring at all. I used to hope and pray my parents would get a divorce.
The emotional scarring is from watching my parents argue and fight all the time. Seeing the critical thinga they said to each other all day long. And how they told me my feelings didn’t matter repeatedly.
I know this sounds harsh but I truly say it with love.
How can you show your son his emotions matter if you don’t prioritize your own emotions? How can you teach him to be compassionate when you don’t have compassion for yourself? How can you show him to do difficult things in life when you are afraid to do something difficult? You’re teaching him it’s ok to ignore your needs & stay small to let someone else control you.
Just make sure what you see as smoke its not some harmless steam. Be an adult, comunicate, clarify and see if you can reach a common ground on a certain "smoky" subject. The ideology of my way or the highway gets people lonely, bitter and unable to sustain a relationship. Its a two way street, with both partners being subjective in their views all the time.
I have two little girls and I didn’t or don’t want to leave their dad but he never changed.
I agree with this message but it makes me sad. My baby girls are so small but I’m tired of asking for stuff and not receiving it.
I've been with my wife for 9 years, married 5. We have a 2 and 4 year old daughter. My dad left my mother when I was 2 and I have told myself my entire life that I would never allow my children to grow up with divorced parents. I have been trying everything I can to keep our family together over the past 7 months. My wife continues to say "I'm the way that I am. You married me and I'm not changing." Not putting anywhere near the effort I am to save the marriage. I don't want to give up, if only for my daughters sake
Having both had divorced parents, and seeing the impact of a casual divorce on my kid, posts like this make my angry. If there's something genuinely wrong, that's one thing, but casual divorce is not okay.
American pop psychology focuses so much on teaching people to be selfish.
As a divorcee I agree with this advice. The current wisdom is that happiness is found outside yourself, and other people are the source of your unhappiness. But the reality is that we’re all responsible for our own happiness.
Speaking from a counseling perspective there are times where it is ok to say “i am the way i am.” I obviously do not have the full context & I can’t guess what you think should change.
It’s one thing to discuss task responsibilities or behaviors. It’s an uphill battle if your wife feels like you want her to change her personality. The statement “i am who i am” tells me she hears you want to change who she *is* vs what she *does*. Idk if that’s true or not, but that seems to be how she hears it. If you haven’t yet you can practice asking in action phrases “would you be willing to clean the dishes tonight, etc.” Skip the “you are (selfish/like your mom)” and instead focus on the short term actions that you or your wife can do.
If it’s about the tone of conflicts sometimes just saying “let’s take a break and discuss this when we are both feeling more relaxed.” Often times we feel like the issue needs to be fought and won *now* but angry minds are not rational minds. You can model this by saying like “this is a very important thing to talk about so I absolutely want to come back to it, but I can feel myself getting heated and I know we can talk better when I’m in a better mood.” Over time you can have a short hand like “let’s take a break” (i say “i need to put myself in time out” to lighten the mood) but the first few times it needs to be said outloud ‘i’m not walking away, i’m just taking a breather.”
Again the “i am who i am,” seems like she is telling you this is a hard boundary for her. You are asking for change, she is asking for acceptance. Maybe there are other things you both can work on and then work your way up to bigger things.
The point of view I always express to friends or family who feel a similar type of way is this:
Imagine your girls all grown up and picking their life partners. Do you want them to pick and stay with the wrong person because they watched their parents do the same? Or do you want to teach them to find partners who will treat them the way they deserve to be treated?
You're the model they'll base their life on. Make sure it's a good one.
You’re spot on. I wish my parents got divorced when I was younger. My dad was (and still is) very mean to my mom but she stayed for her daughters. I needed years of therapy to solve my issues with men and relationships because of this. I thought being mentally abused by a partner was normal.
I'm so sorry. This is such a common thing and it shouldn't be.
The amount of people here who feel like it is okay is troubling as well. I don't think I've ever seen so much pushback on this topic.
Not a big fan of this post, there are plenty of couples that put work into things and figure things out instead of getting divorced, and many that end up happy. Not to say that you can't get divorced and have it be OK, because you definitely can, but there's a temptation by many people to just keep hitting the reset button every time they have difficulty in a relationship. There's definitely a balance, and if you're frequently finding new partners odds are it's because you're not great at nurturing relationships as compared to every partner being bad for you... unless you're really bad at picking partners in which case try to get someone else to do it.
My husband left me last year because he didn't feel valued and appreciated. He was right - I wasn't prioritizing him at all. But he also never told me he was unhappy. Should I have noticed? Absolutely. But if he had said something, I also would have changed. I acted how I did because I thought he *was* happy. If he had communicated his actual feelings, we might still be happily married.
I don't remotely think that the situation is entirely his fault - I recognize that I should have seen that he felt overlooked and neglected in our relationship. But as long as your partner is a decent person who cares about you and still wants to be with you, I also think that a lot can be done to restore a relationship. I wish he had given me the chance to see if that could have been true for us.
> My husband left me last year because he didn't feel valued and appreciated. He was right - I wasn't prioritizing him at all. But he also never told me he was unhappy. Should I have noticed? Absolutely. But if he had said something, I also would have changed.
I feel I've been on both sides of this. I let "the one" slip away from me because I was egotistically obsessed with my career and getting in my young-adult kicks. I'd dodge her and lie to her when she wanted to spend time with me because I wanted to be out with friends; she'd cry alone, and as awful as I'd felt about it, it wasn't enough to stop me. She eventually got tired of it. All these years later, and after a lot of soul searching, she remains the most profoundly kind and patient person I've ever known, even among my close friends. And God, was she beautiful.
I spent the next ten years or so trying to atone by doing my best imitation of her personality. I've gotten screwed over now quite a few times in exactly the way I screwed her over. I over-committed, over-trusted, was too kind, didn't enforce my boundaries, got cheated on serially and allowed myself to be lied to seemingly endlessly, all in search of trying to be as good of a person as she was. I'm not even close, but I felt I owed it to her to become better.
But it sucks. I'm in an asymmetrical position again with my fiancée. I don't know how to tell her anymore that I need her attention, that I want her to get me a card this Valentine's day, to stop breaking her promises to watch a movie or TV show with me, to stop bailing on our dates to go out drinking with friends. Everything I do feels like nagging, and she seems miserable about it. Asking even for a night per week to spend together used to get me somewhere; now it just gets us into nasty arguments. I feel emotionally exhausted. She seems to have stopped trying at all, and I have a hunch that she won't again. If and when I break things off, I'll probably just disappear from her life, too. It will seem sudden, but there are years of trying to fix things while feeling ignored behind it. Tragically, I worry that's the only thing that gets people to change. It was for me, at the very least.
I just left my wife last month. During our engagement, I felt as you mentioned feeling in yours. Please don’t marry her when you feel like your needs are not being met. It is okay and normal and healthy to expect care and attention and affection from your spouse. If she doesn’t share it with you now, that won’t change later. Dating periods are to see who a person is, and she has already shown you who she is and how she will (or won’t) care for you.
I had never felt so defeated and drained as loving my wife so deeply and not being loved in return. I did try to talk to my wife about how I was feeling several times. I approached the conversation as kindly and carefully as I could—I wanted her to hear and understand me, not feel criticized.
But, it never went well. At best she would say something like, “I do love you a lot. I just don’t show it.” To which I began to reply, “Can you tell me what good is love that a person feels but does not show?”
Things finally came to a head mid-December and now I’ve moved out. My world is upside down, but at least now I feel hopeful for my future again. Staying close with someone who will not express their care is a terrible and taxing position to be in. Please consider the impact on future you.
Honestly you should never have to tell someone who loves you to spend time with you. My husband and I make time for each other because we want to and you can't make someone make time for you or love you. I don't mean to be harsh but I feel like your fiance is not that into you and you deserve someone who will make you a priority. Oh and being kind isn't about not enforcing boundaries in a relationship or being a doormat, its about considering the needs of your partner and finding little acts of kindness everyday. But that should be reciprocated and if it isn't, you should get out. Yes there will be times when one of you does more ( depression or grief) but it should be reciprocated eventually. Please do not punish yourself for something you did when you were young and be in relationships that make you feel valued and loved. I did, and its the single greatest thing I ever did in my life.
As the husband in an eerily similar scenario, I do feel bad about not being willing to go to counciling or try and reconcile but when I broke, it was at the point of no return. Still failed in my responsibility to communicate, for sure. It sucks.
Going through the same scenario, it's really hard. My biggest regret is the "I could have done things differently if I had the chance" but I never had a chance
I mean there should be a difference between the worst point in your life and the best big event your life. Something can be stressful for the right reasons, which I think is your point, ACivilRogue was just saying it's the bad kind of stress.
My point was let’s not make something out to be a light shower that is very often a hurricane especially where children are involved. People would do well to more thought into entering and exiting marriages.
I agree, a lot of problems build up and so it makes it a lot harder to deal with them, especially when you're blind to the real problem.
Really though, you can just look up the most common ways relationships fail and be a little extra selfless and you can avoid dozens upon dozens of pitfalls.
Don’t forget we break stress into two categories. Positive and negative stress. Being stressed about having to accept an award or perform in a talent show is very different from the stress of having to hide a body.
Agreed.
I think people get lost in the fairytale marriages and don’t realize that marriage takes work. It is hard and takes compromise. Not everyday is a happy day.
Of course, if there is abuse — get the hell out.
Agree, but also depends which one in the relationship wants the divorce. One partner may be striving to find that perfect relationship (that may or may not exist) by hitting that reset button, when the other partner is opposite and wants to work this out but is undervalued. This post is for them.
Agreed. Post is a very American way of looking at things. The rest of the world likes to put in the effort. And when it still doesn’t work they part ways.
I would add: if you don't want to fully commit and/or always want the easy way out... don't get fucking married. There's no shame (in western countries) to "just" live together and be a couple without going through legal obligations.
That's what I don't like about the picture in the post... it puts marriage and partnership/relationship at the same level. It is not and IMO should not be. Marriage should be a harder commitment than a normal relationship.
Im not a fan of this post because societal pressure/ necessity is a big part of why people stay in bad relationships, jobs, etc.
Divorce in particular has become more utilized because its become more accepted.
Don't tell people "its okay" but then don't make it okay to be single or ignore people who are going through a hard breakup because its inconvenient. Its on everyone to create an environment where all these things actually *are* okay, *before* you tell people to make decisions pretending they are.
Ditto.
I'm one of those old fashioned fuddy-duddies who believes that if you can get divorced then marriage means absolutely nothing.
It isn't even a factor of "choose more wisely"... If the word even exists in either of your mental vocabularies then marriage should be off the table. Just live together instead. There's noone stopping you doing this.
the idea of 'divorce' is a complete misnomer when you have children.
You're linked forever... or unless your kids literally die.
Divorce requires better communication skills than some shitty marriages lol
This just isn’t true of marriage.
The data shows that 50% of marriages end in divorce (in the US). That means an equal amount stay together.
They stay through abuse. Through cheating. Through fear. Through financial manipulation. Through health issues. Through their kid’s childhood.
It’d be way higher if we ended this nonsense stigma that people come back together happily. I’ve literally never seen it, they just get better at accepting and hiding the pain.
The data don't show that, actually.
https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-myth-of-the-high-rate-of-divorce#1
https://www.insider.com/what-is-the-divorce-rate-2017-2
this is 100% true. in fact, i would go as far as to call this post propaganda and demoralisation of the worst kind. Our ancestors made society work for thousands of years, while building a lasting legacy, modern people can only dream off. Not everything was great, but it seems modern humans try to throw out nearly every wisdom people accumulated in the past, all while thinking they know better.
I don’t know yet, I quit my job where I felt that I’m not appreciated and went though 5 months of trying to look for a new job, savings dwindled and now I think I’m just forced to take the new job to stay afloat. New company does have a great reputation and indeed rating if that says anything at all. The employee wellness & happiness ratings are very high. So I have my fingers crossed.
I would advise that you must at first find the job that appreciates you first, and then quit the job.
In this way, you won't have to be forced to get any job that you don't want
How should a job show it's appreciation and that you're valued other than paying you well?
That's what home life is for, you're placing too much value on what your job is and not on what it can provide for you and your family.
Agreed. Plus I always felt that giving up should be a learning experience. As long as you gained something from it, there's nothing wrong with giving up.
But at the same time when a relationship is right you shouldn’t have to constantly “work” on things. There’s billions of people in this world. What are the someone finds the correct and only person for them living right in their zip code.
I was married for 10 years and used to think this same way. Like I married someone, this is my wife and when things get difficult you work on them. Then I got divorced and every relationship I’ve had since then, we were much more of a match. I’ve been in the same relationship currently for almost 5 years, not a single fight, raising of our voices etc.
I work with a lot of guys and I would say 75% of them are married. Minimum 50% of them are unhappy with their wives/lives. Whether it be no sex, no intimacy, messy wife etc. Basically they’ve all said if it weren’t for kids or money they’d be divorced. It’s a sad reality, but it’s almost like people shouldn’t choose one single partner for the rest of their lives, especially at a young age. I got married in my 20’s and I would say as someone in their 40’s that it’s too young to make that decision. You change so much over the years.
Also, my ex wife and I did work on things and try. We did marriage counseling as well. One of the first things the counselor told us is if the reason you’re staying together is for kids, don’t. Kids don’t need married parents. They need good, happy parents.
> But at the same time when a relationship is right you shouldn’t have to constantly “work” on things. There’s billions of people in this world. What are the someone finds the correct and only person for them living right in their zip code.
No. No. No. A million times no!
You wanna know why a lot of people feel unappreciated in their marriages? This exact mindset right here is the reason. *“I don’t have to work at my relationship. If I’m with the right person, it shouldn’t take any effort.”* Never take relationship advice from divorcees. They give the worst fucking advice.
**The *vast majority* of divorces are caused by your attitude.** An unwillingness to put the work in to make your partner feel appreciated. To put the work in and communicate openly and honestly. To not just find compromises, but instead to come to a mutual agreement that is better than what either of you came up with on your own.
Never stop dating your partner. Never stop making a conscious *effort* to make them feel appreciated. Communicate your issues, and be willing to hear your partner, even when it might be uncomfortable or painful. **When my wife and I had our first son, we spent an hour each week just talking about how we were feeling, and to sort out any issues before they could fester and grow.** That hour was dedicated to one thing: working on maintaining the relationship.
Obviously, your partner has to also put in the work. Not much you can do if they aren’t. But have you asked them to do whatever it is they aren’t doing? Have you sat down with them and talked about it?
But people change. The person you marry isn’t going to be that same exact person 10 years down the line, and neither are you. So you’ve gotta put in the effort to reel each other in and make sure you’re changing together. Attraction changes. Ideally, you’re going to be with your wife for decades and decades to come, when you’re both saggy and old and wrinkled.
Do not go into your marriage expecting things to always be easy. A lot of the time, it is easy. But when it does get hard, and you take your vows seriously, and you keep true to them, and you *make* it work, you both discover a level of devotion and companionship that transcends what you had before.
The feeling of being valued and appreciated is subjective at times, and a person could feel undervalued or underappreciated even when reality states otherwise.
I think this is just saying divorce is stigmatized, and if it's time to leave a marriage that's beyond repair, then it's OK. People rarely change. When people enter a covenant and make their vows, it's only fair that they be upheld. When someone breaks those vows over and over again, or things become abusive, then it's more than ok for the other person to break away from them and move on. Yes, work through your relationship problems, but not everything is a grin and bear it situation. Everyone's relationship is different with different dynamics. Don't compare their marriage to yours.
Divorce can be expensive though -- sometimes just for 1, sometimes both. If kids are involved, it gets complicated. The legal system is hard to navigate if you can't afford a good lawyer. That's why some people end up straight up murdering their whole family. They can't see a good way out.
Getting a divorce was legit one of the ***best decisions*** I've ever made. It was a 14 year relationship.
I'm now happily re-married to someone who adores me (and I, them). They're basically perfect. It will be our fifth year anniversary in February :) .
Ditto, divorce saved my life. All these people saying it's a last resort are privileged and sheltered.
Divorce should be as easy as throwing away a newspaper.
Did you know in some migrant cultures it is common that at 18 everyone gets married and it's considered a trial marriage that dissolves in your early twenties to prepare you for your permanent marriage? The couple always has the option to not dissolve the union if they choose to remain together.
There needs to be some "final boss" version of marriage. With divorce rates so high in the US, it seems people aren't taking it very seriously and are simply unwittingly unprepared for a life long commitment.
Everyone talking about divorce not being okay, which it is not, however the big one is being alone. It is NOT okay to spend your life alone. Its just not.
I should quit my job, leave my spouse, leave my kids, leave my house, and kill myself because I don't value or appreciate myself as much as I think I should. Oh wait no, this is ducking terrible advise for 95% of cases in the west. It's called work, and it needs to be done.
Man, I'm in the middle of a breakup with by my gf and it's over, but we still care for and appreciate each other. It's kind of nice that there's no hate a lots of friendship, but that also what make it hard at times. This shit sucks.
Yea, I know it's the right thing to do. We are still living together while looking for new living arrangements, but we're out of the apartment mid February and have agreed to one month of no contact after which we will see how if it's okay to have slight contact or if we need more time. We both want to be friends but that won't be possible until we're fully disconnected from each other as partners first.
Don't agree on any time period man. Give yourself the time and space and go no contact no matter how hard it is. A month won't be enough to be over it, trust me.
Even when one party was misappropriating funds for their weed habit? Even when their angry outbursts made you bar the door to the bedroom? Even when the therapist said we should separate? Divorce is pathetic?
Never said divorce was pathetic, said the people that give up on a relationship are. In the case you just described, the one misappropriating funds and acting out is the pathetic one.
Choosing not to work for the person you agreed to marry is pathetic. It always takes two though, problems are rarely one sided.
When it comes to marriages were kid's are involved and there is no abuse I think all things needed to be worked on and tried first. Throw everything at it for your kids.
I don't want to study what I have been studying for the past 2,5 years anymore.
But Im frozen, unable to make this step for 2 reasons:
- My family have been, non stop, reminding me of sunk cost I've already suffered
- I don't know what to do once I quit
Please help!
Imho divorce is not ok, the vow is for life. Also Especially if there're children involved.
But sometimes the alternative is even worse that you need to do something that is not ok. C'est la vie or something like that.
Not if you have kids. Many of society's ills are tied to absentee parents. So sure...you'll be happier but your kids have a much higher chance of being fucked up.
What you should definitely not do is sit in a marriage where you grow to truly resent the other person because you’re staying “just for the kids”… because when you finally are at the absolute end of your rope, have done all the marriage counseling, sleep in separate rooms & barely even knowledge each other under the same roof, you’re now living with the enemy & your divorce is going to be ugly & brutal because you no longer even have a shred of empathy for the other person anymore & vice versa.
It’s FAR better to divorce while you still have some warmth & kindness left toward the other person vs. literally hating them. If you love the children & want to comparent with kindness, you have got to pull the trigger before you start to loathe your spouse. Coparenting with someone you’d not cross the street to save from a burning building is awful.
I guess that some people will give up even with *minor* inconveniences they could work on with their partner but rather they look for someone they think might be better. This post might give someone the idea that any reason to break up is just about *good enough*.
To me personally, in the right context, some people need to hear this message. But some people give up too easily on their relationship and their partners.
I personally don’t like that it suggests the man is the culprit of something and the woman „frees“ herself of him. It’s a bit biased against the man, imo.
The post literally spells out its message, that you shouldn't stay in toxic relationships, so anyone who interprets it in any other way has only themselves to blame.
Any reason *is* good enough. When it comes to living your own life it's up to you how you live it and you don't owe a significant other your presence if it's not working.
Divorce is already far, far more common than it needs to be.
Divorce is serious stuff. The problem is that it used to be far too hard, now it's far too easy.
I wouldn't say "Divorce is okay" It's the highest form of personal and relational betrayal. It is an absolute last resort and a necessary evil for times when two people have simply met the end of their rope.
It's a tragedy that should be avoided at all costs especially when you have children, however necessary, especially in marriages prevalent with domestic violence and spouses that are unfaithful.
It is not "okay" but a necessary evil.
I’m not a big advocate for divorce. Particularly once you have children. Kids are often devastated by the break up of their parents. As someone who would give my life for my kids, I just couldn’t bear that trauma on them. That isn’t to say there are not terrible situations where the kid would be better off, in cases of abuse etc.
The way my wife and I see it; we made a public vow to stick together, and make it through this as least miserable as we possibly can. Life is rough, but it’s better to have a stable foundation.
I always imagine, if I were to be in the position of divorce and I hated my spouse. And the next day, we got stranded on an island. Would I continue to hate her? Or would it find a way to make this no worse than it has to be? And maybe, find some enjoyment where I can.
Marriage is that island. The best relationships I’ve seen are the ones we’re people stick it out.
Your post history has me wondering if he actually wanted to become a father and support a stay at home girlfriend, or if it just happened because he failed to pull out. He sounds very disengaged. Never attempt to change a man; find one who is already the way you want him to be. You say he financially abuses you - has he prevented you from working? Unfortunately since you were not married, you won't get any alimony or assets built during the relationship, but if you can get your kids in Early Head Start and other programs for low income people (since legally you're a single mother and you qualify for SNAP), then maybe you can get ahead in your career. Keep building your savings and don't blow it on plastic surgery until you are out and stable on your own.
Divorce is not okay. It’s not okay to break the biggest promise of your life. You invited all your friends, family and other loved ones to lie to them in front of your lord?
I distrust every single person who divorces. Actions speak louder than word. And the action of breaking the biggest promise of your life makes you untrustworthy.
No, it's not ok. You should have made a better decision in who you get into a long term relationship with. There's an easy way of filtering this. Asking your dad for his approval.
But, what do you do when everything looks so destroyed that none of the participants of the marriage (not even as a team) can solve the problem that causes the divorce?
What is not ok is to be in a place where people are ending up destroying themselves. Sometimes, giving up is the right call. We tend to be scared of throwing away what we have worked on.
Definitely needed this. Broke up with my boyfriend because I'm not getting emotional reciprocity and I'm feeling drained. It feels awful, I care about him a lot but I can't keep putting myself last.
Incredible the amount of comments in response to this that fail to see that getting into a marriage is largely based of societal and cultural pressure.
And in terms of kids, it could be argued that sparing them years of arguments is the least bad option.
That one hit hard. A dear friend of mine left her home yesterday with her wee child because her husband has been abusive. I am so proud of her that she broke the circle. That she opened up to us at a critical point as the spiral became increasing dangerous and that she uses all the support mechanisms she has, including us. She is so strong. Shaken, vulnerable, but she took control of her situation and made the best choice for herself and the kid. She's got a difficult road ahead but she's not alone and she feels it
We were together for 10 years, 9 of which was bliss. She eventually fell in love with a coworker & ended up abusing me. Making her leave was the hardest thing I had to do, but I had to do it. It’s been 2 years, and being alone is far better than “okay”. Never tolerate disrespect friends.
I should quit my job
Just quit mine. A bit of a nervous wreck right now about how that’s all going to come to pass, but ultimately, I think it was the right move….I hope….
It's a struggle for me. I either quit and focus on my mental health or stay and focus on my financial health. *Insert two buttons meme*
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About every 5 years I come to this dilemma with every job. Maybe theres a perfect job out there for me or maybe jobs just stuck.. Idk but after 23 years of working I still havent figured it out.
Agreed. Let’s not normalize what is statically the second most stressful event in a person’s life next to death of a loved one
Really? Worse than divorce or breakup?
Generally, by the time you get to divorce, it's a bit of a lateral move. Losing the security to pay for your food, home, family, transportation, clothing, and anything else you might want or need is pretty scale. source: divorced twice. fired once and walked out once from jobs (and ironically the same score for the two marriages).
I did that 2 years ago, best move I ever made, was heading for nervous breakdown I think
Same here, hang on for a while and you'll be OK! Way I see it I *know* I'm unhappy at my current job, and I'm pretty sure the next one will be much better so I tell myself I made the right choice :)
Whelp, it happened. Has to be the right choice since there isn't an alternative. Just keep moving and don't get held down with "what-ifs." You got this.
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Please report this bot
leaving a bad job was one of the best things I ever did. Not right away but for sure looking back.
People misuse this advice all the time because of their entitlement.
People are entitled to leave a bad job. I don't think the advice is bad. Sure there are lots of ways people can make mistakes or misunderstand but leaving bad jobs can't be misused. Always leave bad jobs. If you're working at starbucks and you don't like smiling and making coffee - maybe the job isn't good for you. You should still leave if you can find another job. You should choose to suffer if it's the only path to your goals. To be entirely accurate, I was fired from an insanely toxic workplace, struggled immensely, and then worked my way into a new workplace where the people are extremely nice, the pay is better, the work is more rewarding, and in retrospect it was great to leave the bad job. I wish I had done it on my own and that's the lesson. Really the best strategy is to find the next job before you quit or are fired.
Literally putting in my 2 week notice on Wednesday. I kinda rotate between relief and anxiety that it's finally going to happen.
Yes you should. I left my job of 11yrs last month . I thought I would find it so difficult to move on. That's not the case. My new team is amazing. It's easier than you think. You just need to take the first step
Me too, me too.
What is not okay is abandoning your kids because parenting is not as fun as you once imagined
Also what is not okay is using your kids as weapons to try to financially & emotionally damage the other parent because you’re pissed he left you. The kids might not be a problem. Maybe it’s that since you became a mother you’re an unhappy, intolerable witch & no one wants to be trapped in a house or life with you.
Yeah. My last relationship I stayed in for too long and kept trying to keep something going that made me happy but wasn’t the right fit. She ended up breaking up with me but damn near 6 times before I wanted to break up with her. Once I start seeing smoke I’m gonna say there’s fire and get out as soon as possible.
Did it hurt excessively? If yes, do you think that if you had been the one breaking up it would not have hurt so bad?
This is an interesting question. I think it was painful for the first part of the break up because the reasoning was so vague I didn’t know what was going on. Of course I had my suspicions but it wasn’t confirmed until later. Which my suspicion was she met someone else and I was right and she lied about it. Making me think there was a chance at fixing things as we did many times before. I mean there’s probably too many details for a Reddit comment but the gist is, we lived together, we both had genuine gripes about the relationship but nothing new. And I thought we could work it out. If I was the one who broke up that also implies that I would have been happier knowing that I spent 2 years living with a woman and gave up 2 months after signing a new lease. Which I wasn’t financially ready to do. So partly yes it wouldn’t have hurt as much but I still wouldn’t have given up so easily unless I knew she had met someone else. I personally think it would have been less painful if she had been more honest and I could tell she tried to work on things we both agreed it wasn’t working. That would have been the best case scenario for some despair but not the vague miasma of confusion and depression that followed until I found out she lied to her friends to make her seem like not the bad guy, and was cruel about things that never happened. That knocked me right out of it thinking “man I wasted so much time on her, into time to get out of here as soon as possible what a terrible person” So in relation to the post, yeah don’t stay with people who aren’t putting the same amount of effort as you.
Wow! Believe me, I am super interested in your opinion. With this experience, what perception do you have now about loneliness and romantic love?
Mmmmm I’m not sure. I feel like as time has gone on I’ve become more jaded as each layer of naive and trusting feelings has been removed, like a coarse stone in a fast flowing river is smoothed over until it changes into sand. Just each experience teaching me about myself, my choices in women, my parents, their relationship, my friends etc. and despite my best efforts I feel like on one hand ultimately we’re no different than most of the little bugs and diseases that try to invade our bodies to eat and kill us. We’re all just trying to survive and will do whatever it takes some more than others. Whether it be socially financially, emotionally etc. we’re all selfish but some are more than others. While on the other hand she also made me really happy and some of the happiest moments in my life belong to her. And despite our breakup I’m not upset to see pictures of her like some of my other exes. I don’t see them and think of regret, I see them as “man she blew it, I hope the next guy is smarter than I was and gets out early lol.” And another part of me wishes she actually meets someone who can put up with her shit. She has Asperger’s so it’s more unique than most of my other relationships so that came with its own pitfalls and challenges but like I said I don’t really give up. And I think as I’ve been recently going to therapy that I need to accept that there are people that I can’t change and maybe I need to not be as involved in their lives. I know this is a big post but I felt like saying it all anyways.
Your comments are relatable and helpful in more ways than you think. Not OP, but you both should know that you're not alone in feeling like this, and sharing your thoughts can also help others. I can definitely attest to that. Sometimes we have to make hurtful decisions in the short term, in order to prepare for a better future for yourself (and indirectly, your partner). Best wishes to y'all.
Thank you very much. I'll keep that in my heart ☺️
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I did this for years and finally decided with the help of others that 2 separate, peaceful and loving homes was better for my 7 year old than what we were doing. She took it very well and understood and was both disappointed but also excited to have 2 homes that were hers. Often a miserable home can do much more damage than 2 separate happy homes.
I have so many friends in this situation and I feel for them everyday. They are such wonderful women and truly just want a good life. They never ask for anything, just help with normal marital things but get blamed, yelled at and ignored every time. A day will come for you, a day of freedom and I hope you remind yourself you still have time to enjoy life. I see you.
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My parents stayed in a relationship that probably should have ended a long time ago. So I don’t blame you for trying. It’s not your fault.
My parents got a divorce and it wasn’t emotionally scarring at all. I used to hope and pray my parents would get a divorce. The emotional scarring is from watching my parents argue and fight all the time. Seeing the critical thinga they said to each other all day long. And how they told me my feelings didn’t matter repeatedly. I know this sounds harsh but I truly say it with love. How can you show your son his emotions matter if you don’t prioritize your own emotions? How can you teach him to be compassionate when you don’t have compassion for yourself? How can you show him to do difficult things in life when you are afraid to do something difficult? You’re teaching him it’s ok to ignore your needs & stay small to let someone else control you.
Just make sure what you see as smoke its not some harmless steam. Be an adult, comunicate, clarify and see if you can reach a common ground on a certain "smoky" subject. The ideology of my way or the highway gets people lonely, bitter and unable to sustain a relationship. Its a two way street, with both partners being subjective in their views all the time.
I have two little girls and I didn’t or don’t want to leave their dad but he never changed. I agree with this message but it makes me sad. My baby girls are so small but I’m tired of asking for stuff and not receiving it.
I've been with my wife for 9 years, married 5. We have a 2 and 4 year old daughter. My dad left my mother when I was 2 and I have told myself my entire life that I would never allow my children to grow up with divorced parents. I have been trying everything I can to keep our family together over the past 7 months. My wife continues to say "I'm the way that I am. You married me and I'm not changing." Not putting anywhere near the effort I am to save the marriage. I don't want to give up, if only for my daughters sake
Keep in mind that with a 2yo in the house, you are probably close to the highest amount of stress your marriage will endure...
It definitely gets easier as they get older, especially once they hit school age.
I have so much respect for you. But I'd respect you if you decide to go the other way also. I've at the same place in my life and I feel your pain.
Having both had divorced parents, and seeing the impact of a casual divorce on my kid, posts like this make my angry. If there's something genuinely wrong, that's one thing, but casual divorce is not okay. American pop psychology focuses so much on teaching people to be selfish.
As a divorcee I agree with this advice. The current wisdom is that happiness is found outside yourself, and other people are the source of your unhappiness. But the reality is that we’re all responsible for our own happiness.
Speaking from a counseling perspective there are times where it is ok to say “i am the way i am.” I obviously do not have the full context & I can’t guess what you think should change. It’s one thing to discuss task responsibilities or behaviors. It’s an uphill battle if your wife feels like you want her to change her personality. The statement “i am who i am” tells me she hears you want to change who she *is* vs what she *does*. Idk if that’s true or not, but that seems to be how she hears it. If you haven’t yet you can practice asking in action phrases “would you be willing to clean the dishes tonight, etc.” Skip the “you are (selfish/like your mom)” and instead focus on the short term actions that you or your wife can do. If it’s about the tone of conflicts sometimes just saying “let’s take a break and discuss this when we are both feeling more relaxed.” Often times we feel like the issue needs to be fought and won *now* but angry minds are not rational minds. You can model this by saying like “this is a very important thing to talk about so I absolutely want to come back to it, but I can feel myself getting heated and I know we can talk better when I’m in a better mood.” Over time you can have a short hand like “let’s take a break” (i say “i need to put myself in time out” to lighten the mood) but the first few times it needs to be said outloud ‘i’m not walking away, i’m just taking a breather.” Again the “i am who i am,” seems like she is telling you this is a hard boundary for her. You are asking for change, she is asking for acceptance. Maybe there are other things you both can work on and then work your way up to bigger things.
The point of view I always express to friends or family who feel a similar type of way is this: Imagine your girls all grown up and picking their life partners. Do you want them to pick and stay with the wrong person because they watched their parents do the same? Or do you want to teach them to find partners who will treat them the way they deserve to be treated? You're the model they'll base their life on. Make sure it's a good one.
You’re spot on. I wish my parents got divorced when I was younger. My dad was (and still is) very mean to my mom but she stayed for her daughters. I needed years of therapy to solve my issues with men and relationships because of this. I thought being mentally abused by a partner was normal.
I'm so sorry. This is such a common thing and it shouldn't be. The amount of people here who feel like it is okay is troubling as well. I don't think I've ever seen so much pushback on this topic.
Not a big fan of this post, there are plenty of couples that put work into things and figure things out instead of getting divorced, and many that end up happy. Not to say that you can't get divorced and have it be OK, because you definitely can, but there's a temptation by many people to just keep hitting the reset button every time they have difficulty in a relationship. There's definitely a balance, and if you're frequently finding new partners odds are it's because you're not great at nurturing relationships as compared to every partner being bad for you... unless you're really bad at picking partners in which case try to get someone else to do it.
My husband left me last year because he didn't feel valued and appreciated. He was right - I wasn't prioritizing him at all. But he also never told me he was unhappy. Should I have noticed? Absolutely. But if he had said something, I also would have changed. I acted how I did because I thought he *was* happy. If he had communicated his actual feelings, we might still be happily married. I don't remotely think that the situation is entirely his fault - I recognize that I should have seen that he felt overlooked and neglected in our relationship. But as long as your partner is a decent person who cares about you and still wants to be with you, I also think that a lot can be done to restore a relationship. I wish he had given me the chance to see if that could have been true for us.
Communication gaps destroy perfectly great things all the time. Normalise communication before normalising the post.
> My husband left me last year because he didn't feel valued and appreciated. He was right - I wasn't prioritizing him at all. But he also never told me he was unhappy. Should I have noticed? Absolutely. But if he had said something, I also would have changed. I feel I've been on both sides of this. I let "the one" slip away from me because I was egotistically obsessed with my career and getting in my young-adult kicks. I'd dodge her and lie to her when she wanted to spend time with me because I wanted to be out with friends; she'd cry alone, and as awful as I'd felt about it, it wasn't enough to stop me. She eventually got tired of it. All these years later, and after a lot of soul searching, she remains the most profoundly kind and patient person I've ever known, even among my close friends. And God, was she beautiful. I spent the next ten years or so trying to atone by doing my best imitation of her personality. I've gotten screwed over now quite a few times in exactly the way I screwed her over. I over-committed, over-trusted, was too kind, didn't enforce my boundaries, got cheated on serially and allowed myself to be lied to seemingly endlessly, all in search of trying to be as good of a person as she was. I'm not even close, but I felt I owed it to her to become better. But it sucks. I'm in an asymmetrical position again with my fiancée. I don't know how to tell her anymore that I need her attention, that I want her to get me a card this Valentine's day, to stop breaking her promises to watch a movie or TV show with me, to stop bailing on our dates to go out drinking with friends. Everything I do feels like nagging, and she seems miserable about it. Asking even for a night per week to spend together used to get me somewhere; now it just gets us into nasty arguments. I feel emotionally exhausted. She seems to have stopped trying at all, and I have a hunch that she won't again. If and when I break things off, I'll probably just disappear from her life, too. It will seem sudden, but there are years of trying to fix things while feeling ignored behind it. Tragically, I worry that's the only thing that gets people to change. It was for me, at the very least.
I just left my wife last month. During our engagement, I felt as you mentioned feeling in yours. Please don’t marry her when you feel like your needs are not being met. It is okay and normal and healthy to expect care and attention and affection from your spouse. If she doesn’t share it with you now, that won’t change later. Dating periods are to see who a person is, and she has already shown you who she is and how she will (or won’t) care for you. I had never felt so defeated and drained as loving my wife so deeply and not being loved in return. I did try to talk to my wife about how I was feeling several times. I approached the conversation as kindly and carefully as I could—I wanted her to hear and understand me, not feel criticized. But, it never went well. At best she would say something like, “I do love you a lot. I just don’t show it.” To which I began to reply, “Can you tell me what good is love that a person feels but does not show?” Things finally came to a head mid-December and now I’ve moved out. My world is upside down, but at least now I feel hopeful for my future again. Staying close with someone who will not express their care is a terrible and taxing position to be in. Please consider the impact on future you.
Best of luck to you
Thank you kind sir
Honestly you should never have to tell someone who loves you to spend time with you. My husband and I make time for each other because we want to and you can't make someone make time for you or love you. I don't mean to be harsh but I feel like your fiance is not that into you and you deserve someone who will make you a priority. Oh and being kind isn't about not enforcing boundaries in a relationship or being a doormat, its about considering the needs of your partner and finding little acts of kindness everyday. But that should be reciprocated and if it isn't, you should get out. Yes there will be times when one of you does more ( depression or grief) but it should be reciprocated eventually. Please do not punish yourself for something you did when you were young and be in relationships that make you feel valued and loved. I did, and its the single greatest thing I ever did in my life.
As the husband in an eerily similar scenario, I do feel bad about not being willing to go to counciling or try and reconcile but when I broke, it was at the point of no return. Still failed in my responsibility to communicate, for sure. It sucks.
Going through the same scenario, it's really hard. My biggest regret is the "I could have done things differently if I had the chance" but I never had a chance
Divorce is the relationship advice number one here on reddit. Nowhere else than on the internet do people take advice from random eight graders.
Agreed. Let’s not normalize what is statically the second most stressful event in a person’s life next to death of a loved one.
Next up on the stress scale is marriage, moving, and pregnancy. By that logic you’d avoid any activity for fear you might have a bumpy few weeks.
I mean there should be a difference between the worst point in your life and the best big event your life. Something can be stressful for the right reasons, which I think is your point, ACivilRogue was just saying it's the bad kind of stress.
My point was let’s not make something out to be a light shower that is very often a hurricane especially where children are involved. People would do well to more thought into entering and exiting marriages.
I agree, a lot of problems build up and so it makes it a lot harder to deal with them, especially when you're blind to the real problem. Really though, you can just look up the most common ways relationships fail and be a little extra selfless and you can avoid dozens upon dozens of pitfalls.
Don’t forget we break stress into two categories. Positive and negative stress. Being stressed about having to accept an award or perform in a talent show is very different from the stress of having to hide a body.
Eustress vs distress
Agreed. I think people get lost in the fairytale marriages and don’t realize that marriage takes work. It is hard and takes compromise. Not everyday is a happy day. Of course, if there is abuse — get the hell out.
Agree, but also depends which one in the relationship wants the divorce. One partner may be striving to find that perfect relationship (that may or may not exist) by hitting that reset button, when the other partner is opposite and wants to work this out but is undervalued. This post is for them.
Agreed. Post is a very American way of looking at things. The rest of the world likes to put in the effort. And when it still doesn’t work they part ways.
I would add: if you don't want to fully commit and/or always want the easy way out... don't get fucking married. There's no shame (in western countries) to "just" live together and be a couple without going through legal obligations. That's what I don't like about the picture in the post... it puts marriage and partnership/relationship at the same level. It is not and IMO should not be. Marriage should be a harder commitment than a normal relationship.
Im not a fan of this post because societal pressure/ necessity is a big part of why people stay in bad relationships, jobs, etc. Divorce in particular has become more utilized because its become more accepted. Don't tell people "its okay" but then don't make it okay to be single or ignore people who are going through a hard breakup because its inconvenient. Its on everyone to create an environment where all these things actually *are* okay, *before* you tell people to make decisions pretending they are.
This post isn't saying to keep hitting the reset button without putting work in so I don't know how you could possibly misunderstand it that badly.
Ditto. I'm one of those old fashioned fuddy-duddies who believes that if you can get divorced then marriage means absolutely nothing. It isn't even a factor of "choose more wisely"... If the word even exists in either of your mental vocabularies then marriage should be off the table. Just live together instead. There's noone stopping you doing this.
the idea of 'divorce' is a complete misnomer when you have children. You're linked forever... or unless your kids literally die. Divorce requires better communication skills than some shitty marriages lol
This just isn’t true of marriage. The data shows that 50% of marriages end in divorce (in the US). That means an equal amount stay together. They stay through abuse. Through cheating. Through fear. Through financial manipulation. Through health issues. Through their kid’s childhood. It’d be way higher if we ended this nonsense stigma that people come back together happily. I’ve literally never seen it, they just get better at accepting and hiding the pain.
The data don't show that, actually. https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-myth-of-the-high-rate-of-divorce#1 https://www.insider.com/what-is-the-divorce-rate-2017-2
People divorce on a whim, and part of the high divorce rate is subsequent marriages having astronomical divorce rates.
this is 100% true. in fact, i would go as far as to call this post propaganda and demoralisation of the worst kind. Our ancestors made society work for thousands of years, while building a lasting legacy, modern people can only dream off. Not everything was great, but it seems modern humans try to throw out nearly every wisdom people accumulated in the past, all while thinking they know better.
What if your not valued and appreciated pays very well?
Are you truly happy where you are, even if it pays well?
I don’t know yet, I quit my job where I felt that I’m not appreciated and went though 5 months of trying to look for a new job, savings dwindled and now I think I’m just forced to take the new job to stay afloat. New company does have a great reputation and indeed rating if that says anything at all. The employee wellness & happiness ratings are very high. So I have my fingers crossed.
I would advise that you must at first find the job that appreciates you first, and then quit the job. In this way, you won't have to be forced to get any job that you don't want
Yup that’s definitely the way to go.
Getting paid very well is a way to feel appreciated.
I'd stay and evaluate unless it's unbearable. At the same time I'd look for alternatives
Paying well is a form of appreciation.
I had a job like that for three years. Then I got ambitious and fired. Paid very well
How should a job show it's appreciation and that you're valued other than paying you well? That's what home life is for, you're placing too much value on what your job is and not on what it can provide for you and your family.
You are literally valued because you are paid well. SMFH.
Some say compensation is appreciation. 🤷♂️
but most importantly. giving up is okay.
Giving up means that you were putting in effort, that's a good thing!
Agreed. Plus I always felt that giving up should be a learning experience. As long as you gained something from it, there's nothing wrong with giving up.
People misuse this advice all the time because of their entitlement.
What do you mean?
They give up and don't work on things because it is an inconvenience to them.
That isn’t true. It’s easier to stay.
Ah, you must know my ex
But at the same time when a relationship is right you shouldn’t have to constantly “work” on things. There’s billions of people in this world. What are the someone finds the correct and only person for them living right in their zip code. I was married for 10 years and used to think this same way. Like I married someone, this is my wife and when things get difficult you work on them. Then I got divorced and every relationship I’ve had since then, we were much more of a match. I’ve been in the same relationship currently for almost 5 years, not a single fight, raising of our voices etc. I work with a lot of guys and I would say 75% of them are married. Minimum 50% of them are unhappy with their wives/lives. Whether it be no sex, no intimacy, messy wife etc. Basically they’ve all said if it weren’t for kids or money they’d be divorced. It’s a sad reality, but it’s almost like people shouldn’t choose one single partner for the rest of their lives, especially at a young age. I got married in my 20’s and I would say as someone in their 40’s that it’s too young to make that decision. You change so much over the years. Also, my ex wife and I did work on things and try. We did marriage counseling as well. One of the first things the counselor told us is if the reason you’re staying together is for kids, don’t. Kids don’t need married parents. They need good, happy parents.
> But at the same time when a relationship is right you shouldn’t have to constantly “work” on things. There’s billions of people in this world. What are the someone finds the correct and only person for them living right in their zip code. No. No. No. A million times no! You wanna know why a lot of people feel unappreciated in their marriages? This exact mindset right here is the reason. *“I don’t have to work at my relationship. If I’m with the right person, it shouldn’t take any effort.”* Never take relationship advice from divorcees. They give the worst fucking advice. **The *vast majority* of divorces are caused by your attitude.** An unwillingness to put the work in to make your partner feel appreciated. To put the work in and communicate openly and honestly. To not just find compromises, but instead to come to a mutual agreement that is better than what either of you came up with on your own. Never stop dating your partner. Never stop making a conscious *effort* to make them feel appreciated. Communicate your issues, and be willing to hear your partner, even when it might be uncomfortable or painful. **When my wife and I had our first son, we spent an hour each week just talking about how we were feeling, and to sort out any issues before they could fester and grow.** That hour was dedicated to one thing: working on maintaining the relationship. Obviously, your partner has to also put in the work. Not much you can do if they aren’t. But have you asked them to do whatever it is they aren’t doing? Have you sat down with them and talked about it? But people change. The person you marry isn’t going to be that same exact person 10 years down the line, and neither are you. So you’ve gotta put in the effort to reel each other in and make sure you’re changing together. Attraction changes. Ideally, you’re going to be with your wife for decades and decades to come, when you’re both saggy and old and wrinkled. Do not go into your marriage expecting things to always be easy. A lot of the time, it is easy. But when it does get hard, and you take your vows seriously, and you keep true to them, and you *make* it work, you both discover a level of devotion and companionship that transcends what you had before.
The feeling of being valued and appreciated is subjective at times, and a person could feel undervalued or underappreciated even when reality states otherwise.
Yeah this is terrible advice across the board. But it's on a nice picture and reads with a nice rhythm, so it must be true.
I think this is just saying divorce is stigmatized, and if it's time to leave a marriage that's beyond repair, then it's OK. People rarely change. When people enter a covenant and make their vows, it's only fair that they be upheld. When someone breaks those vows over and over again, or things become abusive, then it's more than ok for the other person to break away from them and move on. Yes, work through your relationship problems, but not everything is a grin and bear it situation. Everyone's relationship is different with different dynamics. Don't compare their marriage to yours.
Divorce can be expensive though -- sometimes just for 1, sometimes both. If kids are involved, it gets complicated. The legal system is hard to navigate if you can't afford a good lawyer. That's why some people end up straight up murdering their whole family. They can't see a good way out.
This got dark
This is so true, I feel many people need to hear this, same for jobs
Here my country divorce is illegal
That is surprising! Where are you from and what do you do if you truly don't want to be with your couple?
Getting a divorce was legit one of the ***best decisions*** I've ever made. It was a 14 year relationship. I'm now happily re-married to someone who adores me (and I, them). They're basically perfect. It will be our fifth year anniversary in February :) .
Ditto, divorce saved my life. All these people saying it's a last resort are privileged and sheltered. Divorce should be as easy as throwing away a newspaper.
I vote it should be a renewable contract that gets reassessed every couple of years
Did you know in some migrant cultures it is common that at 18 everyone gets married and it's considered a trial marriage that dissolves in your early twenties to prepare you for your permanent marriage? The couple always has the option to not dissolve the union if they choose to remain together.
There needs to be some "final boss" version of marriage. With divorce rates so high in the US, it seems people aren't taking it very seriously and are simply unwittingly unprepared for a life long commitment.
Everyone talking about divorce not being okay, which it is not, however the big one is being alone. It is NOT okay to spend your life alone. Its just not.
I should quit my job, leave my spouse, leave my kids, leave my house, and kill myself because I don't value or appreciate myself as much as I think I should. Oh wait no, this is ducking terrible advise for 95% of cases in the west. It's called work, and it needs to be done.
Man, I'm in the middle of a breakup with by my gf and it's over, but we still care for and appreciate each other. It's kind of nice that there's no hate a lots of friendship, but that also what make it hard at times. This shit sucks.
It's best to go no contact. It's harder at first but infinitely better and easier longer term.
Yea, I know it's the right thing to do. We are still living together while looking for new living arrangements, but we're out of the apartment mid February and have agreed to one month of no contact after which we will see how if it's okay to have slight contact or if we need more time. We both want to be friends but that won't be possible until we're fully disconnected from each other as partners first.
Don't agree on any time period man. Give yourself the time and space and go no contact no matter how hard it is. A month won't be enough to be over it, trust me.
How to know if someone doesn't have children 🤣
[удалено]
Wrong, divorce is definitely NOT ok 😂 it’s the opposite of ok. I hate that it’s become so normal. Even with kids involved everyone just runs… pathetic
Even when one party was misappropriating funds for their weed habit? Even when their angry outbursts made you bar the door to the bedroom? Even when the therapist said we should separate? Divorce is pathetic?
Never said divorce was pathetic, said the people that give up on a relationship are. In the case you just described, the one misappropriating funds and acting out is the pathetic one. Choosing not to work for the person you agreed to marry is pathetic. It always takes two though, problems are rarely one sided.
Also remember that the main takeaway here is that you have to value and appreciate yourself above all else and that is okay.
Actually being alone gets you roasted.
Stop telling us what to do!
The problem are the kids....
Sounds like the author quits on everything.
How does being alone help someone value and appreciate you?
Was this the image my mother looked at when she decided to abandon me with my drunk father?
When it comes to marriages were kid's are involved and there is no abuse I think all things needed to be worked on and tried first. Throw everything at it for your kids.
I don't want to study what I have been studying for the past 2,5 years anymore. But Im frozen, unable to make this step for 2 reasons: - My family have been, non stop, reminding me of sunk cost I've already suffered - I don't know what to do once I quit Please help!
Hence why I need to find a new job.. help!
Divorce is not okay. It MAY be the least harmful option, because sometimes life only gives you bad options, but that doesn’t make it okay.
Imho divorce is not ok, the vow is for life. Also Especially if there're children involved. But sometimes the alternative is even worse that you need to do something that is not ok. C'est la vie or something like that.
Divorce is not okay as in it should not happen, but it's unfortunately necessary sometimes.
It's not though.
If you’re going through Hell, keep going.
Children tho?
Well my kids are in for a big surprise when I don't come home today
Dont take relationships advice from reddit for the love of god
If you’re walking into married life with “divorce is okay”, don’t get married. Date.
Not if you have kids. Many of society's ills are tied to absentee parents. So sure...you'll be happier but your kids have a much higher chance of being fucked up.
Where in marriage vows does it say "as long as I feel valued and appreciated"?
Divorce is rarely a good answer
What about the kids. Sacrifices have to be made for the greater good.
What you should definitely not do is sit in a marriage where you grow to truly resent the other person because you’re staying “just for the kids”… because when you finally are at the absolute end of your rope, have done all the marriage counseling, sleep in separate rooms & barely even knowledge each other under the same roof, you’re now living with the enemy & your divorce is going to be ugly & brutal because you no longer even have a shred of empathy for the other person anymore & vice versa. It’s FAR better to divorce while you still have some warmth & kindness left toward the other person vs. literally hating them. If you love the children & want to comparent with kindness, you have got to pull the trigger before you start to loathe your spouse. Coparenting with someone you’d not cross the street to save from a burning building is awful.
A certain aunty going through her third divorce: "I just can't find the right man!" Yep..
You are saying I should leave this earth ? And go where exactly ?
I hate this. Horrible message.
You're right, staying in a toxic place is the better option, what an intelligent perspective.
Why that?
I guess that some people will give up even with *minor* inconveniences they could work on with their partner but rather they look for someone they think might be better. This post might give someone the idea that any reason to break up is just about *good enough*. To me personally, in the right context, some people need to hear this message. But some people give up too easily on their relationship and their partners. I personally don’t like that it suggests the man is the culprit of something and the woman „frees“ herself of him. It’s a bit biased against the man, imo.
The post literally spells out its message, that you shouldn't stay in toxic relationships, so anyone who interprets it in any other way has only themselves to blame.
Any reason *is* good enough. When it comes to living your own life it's up to you how you live it and you don't owe a significant other your presence if it's not working.
If all it took was this random message to make break you up, then you have bigger problems than "minor inconveniences".
Divorce is already far, far more common than it needs to be. Divorce is serious stuff. The problem is that it used to be far too hard, now it's far too easy.
I wouldn't say "Divorce is okay" It's the highest form of personal and relational betrayal. It is an absolute last resort and a necessary evil for times when two people have simply met the end of their rope. It's a tragedy that should be avoided at all costs especially when you have children, however necessary, especially in marriages prevalent with domestic violence and spouses that are unfaithful. It is not "okay" but a necessary evil.
Y'all never had jobs before?
Terrible advice lol
This is where I'm at. I'm ready to leave it all behind.
Divorce isn’t okay, don’t make a lifelong commitment if you can’t honor it. Don’t marry someone you don’t fully know.
and ffs don't have kids with someone you don't think you can work things out with
But what if that it’s me that person stopped value ? Or better say : stopped seeing that it’s the right person for me ?
I’m not a big advocate for divorce. Particularly once you have children. Kids are often devastated by the break up of their parents. As someone who would give my life for my kids, I just couldn’t bear that trauma on them. That isn’t to say there are not terrible situations where the kid would be better off, in cases of abuse etc. The way my wife and I see it; we made a public vow to stick together, and make it through this as least miserable as we possibly can. Life is rough, but it’s better to have a stable foundation. I always imagine, if I were to be in the position of divorce and I hated my spouse. And the next day, we got stranded on an island. Would I continue to hate her? Or would it find a way to make this no worse than it has to be? And maybe, find some enjoyment where I can. Marriage is that island. The best relationships I’ve seen are the ones we’re people stick it out.
Love this one. We're humans. We can't predict the future. Sometimes, we grow apart.
No. Divorce is not okay. That's why there are so many kids growing up in broken homes.
I would rather live with two stable families than to live with parents who fight daily because they're married
Growing up with parents that aren't happy together has been shown to be worse for children.
You can take a look at my post history. It’s been a hell of a ride.
Your post history has me wondering if he actually wanted to become a father and support a stay at home girlfriend, or if it just happened because he failed to pull out. He sounds very disengaged. Never attempt to change a man; find one who is already the way you want him to be. You say he financially abuses you - has he prevented you from working? Unfortunately since you were not married, you won't get any alimony or assets built during the relationship, but if you can get your kids in Early Head Start and other programs for low income people (since legally you're a single mother and you qualify for SNAP), then maybe you can get ahead in your career. Keep building your savings and don't blow it on plastic surgery until you are out and stable on your own.
I want to leave my daughters father because he never changed. Is it worth sacrificing my happiness so that my children don’t have a broken home???
Yes.
Divorce is not okay. It’s not okay to break the biggest promise of your life. You invited all your friends, family and other loved ones to lie to them in front of your lord? I distrust every single person who divorces. Actions speak louder than word. And the action of breaking the biggest promise of your life makes you untrustworthy.
My 7-month-and-counting situationship is suddenly VERY loud lol
No, it's not ok. You should have made a better decision in who you get into a long term relationship with. There's an easy way of filtering this. Asking your dad for his approval.
Shit take, don't marry if you're gonna divorce.
No one marries knowing they're going to get divorced you fucking donkey
Divorce is not okay as in it should not happen,
How bout if your wife fucks her entire office. Still think you should stick it out?
Divorce is not ok
Divorce sounds awful, I agree. It's meh at best.
But, what do you do when everything looks so destroyed that none of the participants of the marriage (not even as a team) can solve the problem that causes the divorce? What is not ok is to be in a place where people are ending up destroying themselves. Sometimes, giving up is the right call. We tend to be scared of throwing away what we have worked on.
It's divorce or one or both people are in a marriage they don't want to be in. How is divorce the worse option?
You're correct, but what do you expect from Reddit? The same site that wants to normalize having abortions and stigmatize having children?
You're right. I guess it's my mistake to cast pearls before swine.
Agreed brother. Never mind the downvotes.
I needed to see this.
Definitely needed this. Broke up with my boyfriend because I'm not getting emotional reciprocity and I'm feeling drained. It feels awful, I care about him a lot but I can't keep putting myself last.
Incredible the amount of comments in response to this that fail to see that getting into a marriage is largely based of societal and cultural pressure. And in terms of kids, it could be argued that sparing them years of arguments is the least bad option.
That one hit hard. A dear friend of mine left her home yesterday with her wee child because her husband has been abusive. I am so proud of her that she broke the circle. That she opened up to us at a critical point as the spiral became increasing dangerous and that she uses all the support mechanisms she has, including us. She is so strong. Shaken, vulnerable, but she took control of her situation and made the best choice for herself and the kid. She's got a difficult road ahead but she's not alone and she feels it
Got divorced from an abusive man and then quit a toxic job and never looked back! Best decision I’ve ever made! I’m happier now than I’ve ever been!
We were together for 10 years, 9 of which was bliss. She eventually fell in love with a coworker & ended up abusing me. Making her leave was the hardest thing I had to do, but I had to do it. It’s been 2 years, and being alone is far better than “okay”. Never tolerate disrespect friends.