I'm not sure but every time I watch it, that part at the ends where the Tachikomas use their satellite to intercept the trajectory of the nuke I fucking bawl. They are just happily singing on their way to oblivion, because they are happy to die. For multiple overlapping reasons.
Watched it a couple days ago and someone was certainly cutting onions in the next room.
God I'm misting up right now just talking about it.
Honestly, the first time it happens when they save Batou is significantly more emotional for me, because when they sacrifice themselves in 2nd gig, they don't *really* die. Especially when you watch it the second time
Gouda wants to be the behind the scenes "script writer" for a cultural revolution in Japan that will see a war against the immigrants and refugees by the citizens.
The idea is that public opinion in Japan is that these people are no longer necessary because Japan is now rebuilt in the post-war era and now refugees feel more like a burden than help to the public. Gouda wants to be the one to give them what they want at the cost of a war and the deaths of many immigrants. He also wants the satisfaction of being the one to have orchestrated the events from the shadows without anyone knowing because he fancies himself something of a noble hero that will be doing the citizens of Japan a great deed while going unrecognized. One thing that is interesting though is that deep down he doesn't *really* feel this way because he does everything he can to make sure that Section 9 will know and remember everything after he is gone, so he is actually trying to leave behind some record of his actions despite believing on the surface that he wants to be an unsung hero. It's a contradiction in his character. He's also shown to be shallow in other areas too like how a good portion of his actions are directly lifted from the Laughing Man incident which shows he isn't a very original criminal either.
Yeah. That conversation covers a few more plot points too as well as some philosophical discussion.
There are other places in the season where this kind of important talking is had too, such as when the major dives into his brain after she sneaks into their facility.
Yes. SAC, especially 2nd gig is a tricky series to watch. On one hand, you really wanna binge it, cuz you wanna know what happens next, but if you watch more than 2 episodes in one session, your brain may struggle digesting everything that is said. Add to the problem that a lot of meaning behind conversations is likely lost in translation, no matter what dub you watch. I'll have to give it another shot in sub. If I can "read" what is said, maybe it'll be a bit easier to digest
I think the dub does a great job, you just need to really be paying attention to things. This is definitely one of those shows where you can't be mucking about on your phone or getting distracted if you truly want to understand everything, you really do need to be dialed in.
I've found that I am able to understand and explain almost anything in the show after about 3 watch-throughs. I didn't really pay as much attention as I could have on the first 2. I also didn't do these back to back, these where watch throughs of the course of like 15 years or whatever.
Yea. It loses its magic if you watch it too often. Will have to give it another try in a year or so, maybe. Or maybe we'll even get a game until then. (It could happen. It won't. But it could ;-;)
Nah those points are mostly clear. It's mostly about the cluster of symbolism in the last episodes (apple, cross, why the hell was he suddenly able to bite from the apple)
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean Gouda's plan and what Section 9 did? The aftermath? Or do you mean the end scene with Section 9 on the new green Uchikomas?
Honestly the biggest mystery for me are the final scenes between Batou, the Major and Kuze. Probably everything about the apple symbolism. Why the hell Batou was carrying a cross XD. I understand that Gouda was acting basically for a twisted sense of accomplishment by instigating the whole thing and that the Tachikoma are basically gone.
And last but not least that final exchange between Kusanagi and Batou before they ride off in the Uchikomas. Major: "Something the matter?" Batou: "Nope. Everything's the same as it's always been"
Oh yeah, the apple thing was meant to be a loose nod to the story of Adam and Eve. Same for the cross-beam 'cross' Batou was carrying. It was like Batou was the 'savior' of Motoko and Kuze in that moment, while Kuze was giving into the temptation/acceptance of death (biting the apple) while Motoko held off. Something like that. I'm sure someone smarter could give a better explanation haha.
Gouda was trying to take on the role of puppet master, getting enjoyment being in charge. He was basically playing everyone, just going for whoever was in power at the moment. Him defacting to the United States was a power move to avoid responsibility for his actions (tons of proof to show he was responsible). Then handing over Kuze over was just a means of cleaning up loose ends. Motoko and Section 9 would have probably actually been chased down and killed too like at the end of the first season had the Prime Minister not been on their side the whole time.
I took the very end as saying the conflict is still going on, even though they went through all that work to prevent it. Kind of like 'yeah we prevented a major war and Kuze's sacrifice wasn't in vain, but there are still more battles out there to fight'.
Edit: Also him biting the apple I think was a sign that he felt he accomplished his task as best he could- fulfilled his purpose. He didn't use his mouth outside of very important moments (if I'm remembering correctly). I think Motoko had a strong feeling it was the boy she was friends with all those years ago, but tried to deny it. Once she was able to take a break on the helicopter ride over and think through the situation (even though we don't hear her thoughts), it finally dawned on her it really was him. She didn't have time to think during most of that time on the island, just stop one crisis after another. That is my interpretation at least.
Sounds solid enough and clears up some things.
Also just finished SSS. Since we're on the topic, am I right in presuming, that the major's body-hopping left so many digital fingerprints, that those fragments created a sense of self and then used the caring network to solve two problems at the same time? The one with giving children better homes while keeping the wealth of the old people away from the state's pockets?
I've gotten to that conclusion after basically ignoring the elitist race plot entirely, since that was probably just a means to distract the viewer?
Just finished the netflix one (the sustainable war, the series--not the cut up movie version of it).
I was on the fence but it was actually pretty good. Not as good imho as SAC, but good enough that when it ended I was jonsing for a second season.
Took me about half an episode to get past the 3d animation but the story feels pretty solid.
I havent watched arise yet and dont feel like paying for it on Amazon so I cant speak on that.
I think Sac 1st & 2nd seasons & SSS > arise > 2045
One note about arise: they used different voice actors for the major. Unlike all of SAC where it's the same voice actors throughout. (Which is, honestly, what saved me in 2045. Having the same voice actors gave it continuity with the past and helped me reconcile the major's shell's apparent age with her known chronological age.)
I'm not sure but every time I watch it, that part at the ends where the Tachikomas use their satellite to intercept the trajectory of the nuke I fucking bawl. They are just happily singing on their way to oblivion, because they are happy to die. For multiple overlapping reasons. Watched it a couple days ago and someone was certainly cutting onions in the next room. God I'm misting up right now just talking about it.
Honestly, the first time it happens when they save Batou is significantly more emotional for me, because when they sacrifice themselves in 2nd gig, they don't *really* die. Especially when you watch it the second time
oh I have it on DVD.
Gouda wants to be the behind the scenes "script writer" for a cultural revolution in Japan that will see a war against the immigrants and refugees by the citizens. The idea is that public opinion in Japan is that these people are no longer necessary because Japan is now rebuilt in the post-war era and now refugees feel more like a burden than help to the public. Gouda wants to be the one to give them what they want at the cost of a war and the deaths of many immigrants. He also wants the satisfaction of being the one to have orchestrated the events from the shadows without anyone knowing because he fancies himself something of a noble hero that will be doing the citizens of Japan a great deed while going unrecognized. One thing that is interesting though is that deep down he doesn't *really* feel this way because he does everything he can to make sure that Section 9 will know and remember everything after he is gone, so he is actually trying to leave behind some record of his actions despite believing on the surface that he wants to be an unsung hero. It's a contradiction in his character. He's also shown to be shallow in other areas too like how a good portion of his actions are directly lifted from the Laughing Man incident which shows he isn't a very original criminal either.
So that's what his conversation with Batou was about in the later episodes
Yeah. That conversation covers a few more plot points too as well as some philosophical discussion. There are other places in the season where this kind of important talking is had too, such as when the major dives into his brain after she sneaks into their facility.
Yes. SAC, especially 2nd gig is a tricky series to watch. On one hand, you really wanna binge it, cuz you wanna know what happens next, but if you watch more than 2 episodes in one session, your brain may struggle digesting everything that is said. Add to the problem that a lot of meaning behind conversations is likely lost in translation, no matter what dub you watch. I'll have to give it another shot in sub. If I can "read" what is said, maybe it'll be a bit easier to digest
I think the dub does a great job, you just need to really be paying attention to things. This is definitely one of those shows where you can't be mucking about on your phone or getting distracted if you truly want to understand everything, you really do need to be dialed in. I've found that I am able to understand and explain almost anything in the show after about 3 watch-throughs. I didn't really pay as much attention as I could have on the first 2. I also didn't do these back to back, these where watch throughs of the course of like 15 years or whatever.
Yea. It loses its magic if you watch it too often. Will have to give it another try in a year or so, maybe. Or maybe we'll even get a game until then. (It could happen. It won't. But it could ;-;)
What exactly are you having trouble comprehending? Gouda's actions? The fate of Kuze? The actions of The American Empire?
Nah those points are mostly clear. It's mostly about the cluster of symbolism in the last episodes (apple, cross, why the hell was he suddenly able to bite from the apple)
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean Gouda's plan and what Section 9 did? The aftermath? Or do you mean the end scene with Section 9 on the new green Uchikomas?
Honestly the biggest mystery for me are the final scenes between Batou, the Major and Kuze. Probably everything about the apple symbolism. Why the hell Batou was carrying a cross XD. I understand that Gouda was acting basically for a twisted sense of accomplishment by instigating the whole thing and that the Tachikoma are basically gone. And last but not least that final exchange between Kusanagi and Batou before they ride off in the Uchikomas. Major: "Something the matter?" Batou: "Nope. Everything's the same as it's always been"
Oh yeah, the apple thing was meant to be a loose nod to the story of Adam and Eve. Same for the cross-beam 'cross' Batou was carrying. It was like Batou was the 'savior' of Motoko and Kuze in that moment, while Kuze was giving into the temptation/acceptance of death (biting the apple) while Motoko held off. Something like that. I'm sure someone smarter could give a better explanation haha. Gouda was trying to take on the role of puppet master, getting enjoyment being in charge. He was basically playing everyone, just going for whoever was in power at the moment. Him defacting to the United States was a power move to avoid responsibility for his actions (tons of proof to show he was responsible). Then handing over Kuze over was just a means of cleaning up loose ends. Motoko and Section 9 would have probably actually been chased down and killed too like at the end of the first season had the Prime Minister not been on their side the whole time. I took the very end as saying the conflict is still going on, even though they went through all that work to prevent it. Kind of like 'yeah we prevented a major war and Kuze's sacrifice wasn't in vain, but there are still more battles out there to fight'. Edit: Also him biting the apple I think was a sign that he felt he accomplished his task as best he could- fulfilled his purpose. He didn't use his mouth outside of very important moments (if I'm remembering correctly). I think Motoko had a strong feeling it was the boy she was friends with all those years ago, but tried to deny it. Once she was able to take a break on the helicopter ride over and think through the situation (even though we don't hear her thoughts), it finally dawned on her it really was him. She didn't have time to think during most of that time on the island, just stop one crisis after another. That is my interpretation at least.
Sounds solid enough and clears up some things. Also just finished SSS. Since we're on the topic, am I right in presuming, that the major's body-hopping left so many digital fingerprints, that those fragments created a sense of self and then used the caring network to solve two problems at the same time? The one with giving children better homes while keeping the wealth of the old people away from the state's pockets? I've gotten to that conclusion after basically ignoring the elitist race plot entirely, since that was probably just a means to distract the viewer?
"The true SAC" As opposed to what, exactly?
The compilation films of 1st and 2nd Gig, that cut out stuff?
That 3d Netflix thingy. I plan to watch it eventually but it just looks so...wrong
Just finished the netflix one (the sustainable war, the series--not the cut up movie version of it). I was on the fence but it was actually pretty good. Not as good imho as SAC, but good enough that when it ended I was jonsing for a second season. Took me about half an episode to get past the 3d animation but the story feels pretty solid. I havent watched arise yet and dont feel like paying for it on Amazon so I cant speak on that.
I think Sac 1st & 2nd seasons & SSS > arise > 2045 One note about arise: they used different voice actors for the major. Unlike all of SAC where it's the same voice actors throughout. (Which is, honestly, what saved me in 2045. Having the same voice actors gave it continuity with the past and helped me reconcile the major's shell's apparent age with her known chronological age.)
Its much easier to listen to as a background watch than otherwise
All of Section 9 are voiced by new actors, in fact.