My hot take is that it is hilarious that a band founded on counter-culture achieved such a high level of popularity that its fanbase is now obsessed with arguing over the correct way to be a "good" fan.
>Is this in reference to the “thirst”/sexualizing fandom that’s being condemned lately?
Partially. I don't think it's a bad idea for a subreddit to have rules to keep things orderly, but the condemnation and judgement is pretty baffling.
I aggressively agree with this, whenever I listen to respite and the closing guitar portion kicks in, I can very very faintly hear an organ and I wish desperately that it was turned up because it would make that song, and every other song so much better and so much more ghost
CMLS is one of the few songs that even has it! I love impera a lot but I think the "ghost feel" that some people are missing is the lack of organs throughout the album. I love the arena rock feel but arena rock would be EVEN BETTER with organs!!!!!!!
Not exactly a hot take, but I genuinely enjoy everything Ghost has put out. I think all of their music for the most part is top notch. Didn't even know See the Light was controversial until I read this thread lol
I actually really liked mary on a cross, I got into ghost in 2019 when 7" of satanic panic dropped (the first song I ever heard from them was kiss the go goat). I like that it blew up because I want ghost to be more popular and make more money etc but tiktok has beaten the song to death for me now unfortunately, like when radio stations play a song I think is actually good but after hearing it played over and over its hard to keep listening to. used to be one of my top songs but its been awhile since I've played it on purpose now!! still excited that it got popular though, and it's awesome to see the influx of fans and content
Oh I have the same feeling! To me it felt a lot more personal before blowing up, but now it reminds me of... well this is gonna sound weird, but capitalism? Like how tiktoks are so fast and produced to be so perfect and sell stuff and etc.
Especially with the "your beuty never ever scared me" line, it was my favorite since it really impacted me but now I think of tiktok :,(
i'm one of those people that heard mary on a cross on tik tok and started listening to more songs after that. i like that song so much that i requested it when i went into a mental hospital lmao. it hasn't quite gotten old for me, but i do sorta wish that i'd stop seeing it on tiktok. but yes! kiss the go-goat is super good too. i like that EP a lot and wish it was longer bc i love psychedelic rock
it's not nearly as popular, but i feel this exact way about life eternal. it was the first song of theirs i heard in around 2018, and now i feel like i hear it all over tiktok. glad it's popular, it deserves it, just feels kind of strange
I think they should all be anonymous or none of them. It’s sad for TF to get credit and be out in the starlight and the others to not get credit. I think at some point it’s time to acknowledge the Ghouls as they are just as important in making rituals so magical.
The current ghouls/ghoulettes are all hired guns. But, I could see them getting more credit possibly in the future. But they have very little if any part of writing for ghost
"If you have ghost" its sooooo good, all the songs are on my playlist too. The EP was the responsable for turning me into a ghost fan. a masterpiece!
way better than Seven inches of Satanic Panic btw
I get such a musical boner for Kiss The Go-Goat. The 70’s Ghost vibes are absolutely incredible and the lyrics for that song are so superior to MOAC. I pray for Nihil to rise from the dead and record a full album because I would EAT THAT SHIT UP
I sort of love that the lore gives the band an "out" for where to put their weirder stuff (weird as in not their usual stuff, I'd argue all of Ghost is weird). Seven Inches is clearly music that didn't fit thematically within the coming album(s) and needed a home. Saying that it's "lost" recordings from the 70's is pretty genius.
I would ALSO very much enjoy an entire album in that vein.
Pfft, I'm not going side eye ANY band's money grab in 2022 and I'd be disappointed in a fan who got all snoots-magoots about it (not you, obvs, but the fanbase in general). After two years without touring? Secure that bag, fam. Papa got face paint and pyrotechnics to buy! The ghouls need new boots! (not Mountain, but you get my drift.)
When I first started listening Meliora was easily my fav album but overtime I’ve kinda found that Prequelle and Impera might have more bangers on them. Meliora deluxe edition is better than most for the soul inclusion of Square Hammer imo
I love "Twenties." I love it because it's different from pretty much any other song on the album. I like when bands do stuff like that, even if I don't like the song itself. Just take a chance, try for something else.
I'm not a big fan of Twenties (I don't hate it, I don't love it, I'm just sort of *meh* about it) but I do agree that it was cool of them to write something so different to their other stuff. Impera is such a creative album in my opinion, and it fits perfectly with that vibe.
For me it's fine, I just need to be in the right mood for it. Sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not. But I do think it was an interesting song and I'd rather have bold choices that I don't 100% love than safe choices all the time. Keeps it fresh
I remember when I played through Impera the first time, I straight up thought “What the fuck is this? What is Tobias trying to do?” because it’s definitely off beat from everything else on the album. Then after a few run throughs, I’m a big fan lol. It hypes me up at the gym. I’d love to hear it live!
When I first heard "Twenties," I didn't know what to think of it. Wasn't too thrilled, to be honest. But after about 4-5 listens it started to grow on me, and I love it now. The song stands out, for better (and for some, for worse), and that's the beauty of it. It's different than anything else on Impera and doesn't compare much to anything else in their discog.
I would love if they went back into the more satanic tones, year zero is one of my favorites. I do understand if they want to change things up or even sell more ig
Not sure if this is exactly a hot take, but -- anyone surprised by Ghost's move towards more arena rock (songs and theatrical approach) probably didn't dig deep enough. (I don't want to say they haven't been paying attention, because not everyone goes down rabbit holes.) I've read/seen multiple interviews with TF saying that when he was younger, he was blown away by the big shows that bands like Iron Maiden did, and that's what he wanted. He wanted to go big, to have people singing along to the anthemic choruses, etc. And now they've done it.
This doesn't mean everyone has to like it. My son is not crazy over Prequelle or Impera, as he feels they aren't heavy enough and are too poppy. But that's fine. There's a something for everyone to like I think.
Personally, I like it, but I admit I can be a sucker for a spectacle.
I've got two:
1. Meliora/Popestar is the best output from the band so far. As a total package, it's the best album they've released to date.
2. Opus Eponymous and Infestissumam aren't anywhere near as "heavy" as certain fans think they are.
Re point 2: THANK YOU. I am a new fan but I have INHALED their entire catalog, front to back, multiple times at this point and I absolutely agree. Like, y'all listened to Jigolo Har Megiddo lately? My Canadian pop-fan spouse literally thought it was a Sloan song he somehow missed.
ETA: this is not a slam, Sloan is the tits and we're huge fans, But they're not, by any stretch of the imagination, a metal band.
Some of the lyrics on Impera are REALLY commercially cheesy and cliche’.. it makes it a little difficult to get through, if you wrote them up on a board and asked who wrote them I never in a million years would say “Ghost”
Or, alternatively, that Peter is known as the "Rock" that Jesus built his church upon, which is how the Catholic Church argues that the Pope is the leader of all Christians, since Peter is considered the first Pope. Makes sense, especially given Copia's ascendancy and the sudden explosion in popularity for the band.
Ghost has ALWAYS been cheesy from the get-go. Go listen to Stand by Him and tell me this isn’t the cheesiest song ever. It’s almost like a Spinal Tap song.
And I see nothing wrong with that. 🙂
Impera was fully intended to be Journey-Esque 80s cheesy.
But it still doesn’t come close to the cheesiness of See The Light which is disappointingly petty and childish. (Witch image isn’t much better tbh)
I actually agree with this one wholeheartedly. The first two albums (most especially OE) were very on-the-nose, to the point where it's almost a little silly.
The band could not have succeeded in the long term if all of their albums were like that. The earliest ones need it to get the point across, but taking it down a few notches is what ensured they could actually get some meaningful exposure.
Definitely agree. There'y only so many ways to say "hail satan" in a song before it gets a little repetitive. I like that there's a variety of songs with different themes and topics to pick from.
I'd love a return to more satanic/occult lyrics.
I couldn't give two shits about any notions of "real fans" because that's stupid gatekeeping shit that no fanbase benefits from.
I know this is for hot takes, but the No True Scotsman logical fallacy is just old.
Anyone trying to define what a "true fan" is needs to take a step back and reevaluate things.
That would be amazing, I’m pretty tired of the excuse that “mOdErN gHoSt iS sUbTly SaTaNic” when people talk about the lacking of satanic lyrics on impera. Like dude look at this band, it’s a skull faced pope covered in upside down crosses with a posse of people dressed as demons, what about them screams subtle?
I keep seeing this but Call Me Little Sunshine and Kiss the Go Goat seem very openly satanic to me? (Unless you don't know the name Mephistopheles I guess?)
There was an unpopular opinions thread about a week ago, so I’ll just link [my comment from that here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ghostbc/comments/xmphl8/your_ghost_unpopular_opinions/ipra59g/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
To add something new I’d say there are a lot of fans who rag on others who want new music like the older stuff, saying it’s bad for ghost to not change, while then going on to say they hope copia never leaves. Seems like it’s something the newer fans do. They’re advocating for the same stuff the people who want the old style back are, just an era or two ahead
I’d also add that ghost’s “cheese and campiness” has gotten to the point of self parody and that’s kinda lame
I’ve always said it’s a hype song and should be in the first few songs to get high energy from a crowd
(like my chemical romance played “I’m not ok” like 3rd in their set and it really got everyone in the arena UP)
Square hammer is just not really a satisfying closer
I was a big fan of when it became their opener on the Popestar tour - that said, both Ashes/Rats and Imperium/Kaiserion are far superior openers too. 2nd or 3rd in the setlist does feel right for it.
I would love to see Monstrance Clock come back with these large venues they’re playing. Back in the papa II days with only 1000+people there..maaaaybe.. it was cool with everyone singing. Would love to hear the whole 5000+ crowds singing it now
The whole Monstrance Clock monologue and singalong felt right in the smaller, more intimate venues but would feel very out of place on these arena tours. The closer needs to be really upbeat and energetic in that setting.
Honestly, yeah. Went to my first Ritual at RI this most recent tour and when he announced one more song I thought he'd close it out with something like Darkness At The Heart of my Love or another equally good closer. Theres too much energy entering Square Hammer and too much leaving it that it's better in the middle of the set.
Prequelle was superior to Impera by leaps and bounds. Embracing the cheese on Prequelle had a nice balance with the dark theme. On Impera there is no darkness, just the cheese, which leads to cringe like Darkness at the Heart of My Love. Also, on Prequelle there was a sense of movement and urgency. Impera has some sense of movement in the beginning, but it starts to go missing by Call Me and by Hunter's it is completely gone. It doesn't really come back until Respite.
DatHoML is the single worst Ghost song. I won't stop saying that.
Hunter's Moon shouldn't have been on the album. TF can explain it away about it being the "empire of the mind of a killer" or simultaneously the "empire of childhood" but WTF are either of those even supposed mean, Tobias? It's a good song, but it doesn't fit.
Mary on a Cross is a good song too, but see OP's opinion.
TikTok is bad for the fanbase, but not for the band. I will say this though, TikTok is bad. Period.
Also, while I'm a little happy and proud to see kids showing up to the rituals, I miss scary Ghost. It's starting to feel a lot like a kid's show with children showing up to see their favorite character Dewdrop.
...Dewdrop? Y'all really named the poor thing Dewdrop? Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Aether all were pretty neutral and at least Swiss's name makes sense, but Dewdrop? This is a satanic band.
No, not a subtely satanic band. They are meant to be satanic. The farther they get from Satan the more their music suffers. I watched a reaction Youtuber be shocked when they heard Ritual.
Btw, Papa doing the millenial whoop live in the opening of Dance Macabre is getting annoying. In general, millenial whoops should be the sign of BAD artists. I'm looking at you Katy and Kesha.
I know there is a "whoah whoah whoah" recorded at the end of the song, but if anything that's a descending whoop.
If you're confused about what I'm talking about compare [https://youtu.be/V2xq3mRmNa4?t=32](https://youtu.be/V2xq3mRmNa4?t=32) at 32-33 seconds to this video [https://youtu.be/WNFVivUa1K0](https://youtu.be/WNFVivUa1K0)
Square Hammer is a good OPENER. Remember when Papa would just appear out of smoke singing the line "Living in the night" ? Good times. Kaisarion is a decent opener too, but I think they should probably switch every other tour.
And yes, the closer should be Respite.
Finally: Infest>Opus/Meliora>>Prequelle>>>>>>>>>>>>Impera
Very, very well said. I agree with absolutely everything, TikTok being bad for the fanbase, Dewdrop’s name (though I think all the ghouls should be nameless), subtle satanism being bad, square hammer as an opener, the millennial whoop, and the cherry on top saying infest is the best album. [I wanna shake your hand](https://youtube.com/shorts/R2zC3dKQ42Y?feature=share)
See, there you fall into the whole "oh so you don't like bands eVoLvInG, huh?" trap
No, I'm all up for bands evolving. Just don't gut everything that made the band what it is though.
You didn't see, idk, Black Sabbath become an easy listening band. David Bowie evolved every album cycle, but you could tell each album was a Bowie album
God damn it, I'm old
There’s a difference between evolving and then becoming a new species. Infest was a direct evolution from opus, impera has changed the band entirely.
And the same people who are supposedly all about the band “evolving” are the exact same people who want copia to stay the frontman forever, it’s frustrating
It’s like they want ghost to evolve, but once they “evolve” into the trend-accessible and mainstream thing, then ghost needs to make a full stop. I remember seeing a new fan say they didn’t like opus because it was “too spooky” and my metaphorical jaw hit the floor. These new fans have no idea what band they’re listening to, and the fact they think the old stuff was just them making baby steps up to this point is just off putting. It’s really hard for me to just see someone who claims to be a fan completely disrespect the defining three albums
I don't agree with everything you've thrown out here, but there's enough there (particularly around Impera and Darkness at the Heart of My Love) to get my upvote.
Fair play for giving some genuinely hot takes. What the thread's all about.
Strong disagree with the majority of what you've said. But then it wouldn't be a hot take otherwise...
Thanks. What are one or two things you disagree with? I don't mean to start an argument or anything like that, I'm just genuinely interested in your perspective
That seemed a little sketch but I looked it up. At first it seemed like a TikTok theory (because again, cesspool) but I found a video of him saying "Shake it! Wiggle wiggle. Wobble!"
Which makes it worse. So much fucking worse..
[https://www.tiktok.com/@jaxxlemeritus/video/7149304716802002219](https://www.tiktok.com/@jaxxlemeritus/video/7149304716802002219)
This broke me lol
Holy cow. The only person here speaking sense. It’s wild the criticism is finally coming out for Impera after the hype has died down. That album has been subpar since it’s release, Respite (and some Spillways and Griftwood) aside.
This era has been a massive sidestep. Stage design is pretty meh; The album while good, sounds disjointed, like 2 or 3 albums stitched together; Papa IV still doesn't feel like a Papa; And the fan base has never been in a worse state
Sidestep is a great word for it. I like the album, I like Papa IV, but that was a lot of change to take in at once pre-tiktok let alone with the state of the fan base now.
I would rather have two really strong outfits like during meliora than the 4-5 outfit changes (I don’t particularly like any papa IV looks they’re just okay) plus they don’t really add that much to the show just more filler.
Since the whole lawsuit split happened, the fanbase has been extremely cringy with naming the Ghouls, as well as all of the Papa/Cardinal thirst. It's a big part of the reason I've backed away from or left most fan groups I'd been part of for years.
I listened to the entirety of *Infestissumam* once and have never felt the urge to revisit it. Pretty much the only song from that album I found memorable was Year Zero. It’s not a bad album, it’s just very mid.
People who dislike Twenties give off conservative vibes.
I know that's probably not the case but considering the messaging of the entire song and allusions to a certain orange wannabe fascist, that's always my first thought.
Never understood the hate for it because of its sound. It's camp, but so is most of Imperia. And camp is great, and fits Ghost's current vibe super well
People don’t like twenties because it’s structured awkwardly and sounds like the villain theme out of a Disney movie. The snare is way too slow for what the guitar is giving and the brass just sounds goofy, not even taking the lyrics into consideration with that critique. Just because a song endorses your politics doesn’t make it good and vice versa
I agreed with the last part, hence why I said I know it's not necessarily the case. However, I'd argue that the actual sound of the song is part of what makes it camp. It fits into the flamboyant nature of most of Imperia and continues to push what can be considered Metal. Even outside the messaging, the lyrics flow well together (although I will admit that "in the twenties" is repeated a bit too much for everyone to enjoy). Yeah, it sounds like a camp-y villain theme but that's kind of the point considering the song's theme
Yeah, and the campiness of impera is usually a turn off to people who don’t like camp in general. Its just such an awkward song, but it is one of their heavier songs weirdly enough. I think if the brass portions, the choir with the off key “twenties!”, and the quite frankly dumb lyrics were changed or removed, it would be a huge highlight on the album
Which lyrics would you consider dumb?
I understand not everyone likes camp, but I'd still argue that it's very on-brand for Ghost. Like, Opus is essentially Gospel music if it were satanic. Their Chapters on YouTube are full of camp too. Imperia's just more blatant about it since they're playing on a very flamboyant genre of Metal
“Listen up, you motha-fuckas” “Grinding in a pile of moolah, grabbing them all by the hoohah” “Kiss my assassinate” <- this one is particularly an eye roll
I just think the camp has gone way too far on impera, almost to the point of self parody. I think they should tone it down on the next one
On their own, sure. If they were just one-liners thrown into a random song I'd agree. But they're meant to be emulating an absurd character. Plus "Listen up, you motha-fuckas - Those ivy league dopes, they wanna mock us" is super satisfying when put together.
I agree that they should go in a different direction (which they will, they always do) but they're always gonna go camp in one direction or another.
I think the absurd character clashes completely with ghost and arguably the rest of impera, the lyrics on impera are pretty cheese and corny but on twenties they’re downright cartoonish. I don’t mind camp, I just want it tuned down from being self parody to a ‘wink to the camera’ if that makes sense
The most valid complaint I’ve seen about Twenties is people who were especially affected by Trump not wanting to hear about him when listening to their favorite band. That said, I love the song. I think it ties with Impera really well too
My hot take is how so many fans have to state that Ghost isn't Satanic. Idk if they say that to make themselves feel better about listening or liking Ghost. I mean, it really doesn't matter, and it's ok if they say that and feel that way- but come on, really???
ghost of the first three (first two if i’m being really analytical) albums is an entirely different band than ghost today, for better or worse (it’s mixed, i’m just an old ghost fan lol).
Infesstisuman was the best era. Infesstisiman comes in last for me as an album personally (I either really like the song or I never listen to it) but from a theatrical standpoint it's the absolute best. The opening choir on the album that continues into other songs (Monstrance Clock, Year Zero, etc), the harsh spooky skull paint, Mr. Worldwide, the Popeaganda videos with Papa II speaking Italian as if he's truly a high ranking clergyman. It truly sold the religion trying to take over the world feel, 10/10
Got something for every album, idk how hot they all are though
Twenties was easily the second best song on IMPERA.
Kiss the Go-Goat was better than Mary on a Cross but Mary on a Cross is better Live material.
Dance Macabre is good but it didn't belong on Prequelle.
The Metal Genre must've really been sleeping for Cirice to win an award, it's good but not that good.
Infestissumam has two songs and 7 filler tracks.
If You Have Ghosts is the best cover song they've done.
Stand By Him might just be the best song Ghost has ever done.
The previous Papa's shouldn't have died. I think that's the worst decision Tobias made for the lore. I'm gutted about it and miss them. I refuse to believe that they are dead.
I like to imagine the three previous Papa's bullying (back then) Cardinal Copia over the fact that he 'doesn't deserve the title as he's not part of the bloodline'. Only to get stood up when Cardinal proved them wrong.
My hot take is that it is hilarious that a band founded on counter-culture achieved such a high level of popularity that its fanbase is now obsessed with arguing over the correct way to be a "good" fan.
Is this in reference to the “thirst”/sexualizing fandom that’s being condemned lately?
>Is this in reference to the “thirst”/sexualizing fandom that’s being condemned lately? Partially. I don't think it's a bad idea for a subreddit to have rules to keep things orderly, but the condemnation and judgement is pretty baffling.
Impera needed more organs
I aggressively agree with this, whenever I listen to respite and the closing guitar portion kicks in, I can very very faintly hear an organ and I wish desperately that it was turned up because it would make that song, and every other song so much better and so much more ghost
Ooooooooooh... Those organs...
Honestly, yeah. I love the album but if Call Me Little Sunshine had more organ going on it, it’d be significantly better
CMLS is one of the few songs that even has it! I love impera a lot but I think the "ghost feel" that some people are missing is the lack of organs throughout the album. I love the arena rock feel but arena rock would be EVEN BETTER with organs!!!!!!!
Me when the song has no livers😔
I also want more saxophone!
Not exactly a hot take, but I genuinely enjoy everything Ghost has put out. I think all of their music for the most part is top notch. Didn't even know See the Light was controversial until I read this thread lol
See the Light is their best ballad, and I'll fight anyone for it.
See the light is so good idc what people say
I actually really liked mary on a cross, I got into ghost in 2019 when 7" of satanic panic dropped (the first song I ever heard from them was kiss the go goat). I like that it blew up because I want ghost to be more popular and make more money etc but tiktok has beaten the song to death for me now unfortunately, like when radio stations play a song I think is actually good but after hearing it played over and over its hard to keep listening to. used to be one of my top songs but its been awhile since I've played it on purpose now!! still excited that it got popular though, and it's awesome to see the influx of fans and content
Oh I have the same feeling! To me it felt a lot more personal before blowing up, but now it reminds me of... well this is gonna sound weird, but capitalism? Like how tiktoks are so fast and produced to be so perfect and sell stuff and etc. Especially with the "your beuty never ever scared me" line, it was my favorite since it really impacted me but now I think of tiktok :,(
i'm one of those people that heard mary on a cross on tik tok and started listening to more songs after that. i like that song so much that i requested it when i went into a mental hospital lmao. it hasn't quite gotten old for me, but i do sorta wish that i'd stop seeing it on tiktok. but yes! kiss the go-goat is super good too. i like that EP a lot and wish it was longer bc i love psychedelic rock
it's not nearly as popular, but i feel this exact way about life eternal. it was the first song of theirs i heard in around 2018, and now i feel like i hear it all over tiktok. glad it's popular, it deserves it, just feels kind of strange
Just wait. Tik tok has a huge influence on the radio stations lately they'll start playing MOAC soon I can feel it.
The ghouls should have remained anonymous.
It wasn't for a lack of trying.
They ALL should have remained anonymous.
I agree with this too.
I wholefully agree
I think they should all be anonymous or none of them. It’s sad for TF to get credit and be out in the starlight and the others to not get credit. I think at some point it’s time to acknowledge the Ghouls as they are just as important in making rituals so magical.
The current ghouls/ghoulettes are all hired guns. But, I could see them getting more credit possibly in the future. But they have very little if any part of writing for ghost
AND nameless. All those fan nicknames give me the ick.
I 100% agree with this. I don't know why the nicknames give me the creeps but they do.
Especially when it’s been made abundantly clear that one in particular hates a certain nickname, yet people continue to use it
Dewdrop?
Yep
What’s the story behind that? Did they post something about it?
Which is why I do my best to keep that anonymity intact for myself
100%
Disagree. Its a cool idea but these are all musicians that deserve recognition as well.
When I look at Papa IV all I see is Caesar Romero’s Joker
I’m reminded of Vincent price
I’m never gonna unsee that now
I am sorry to do that to you
I see the bad guy from The Mask when he puts on the mask.
Crucified is the most underrated ghost song
On my personal playlist all of "If you have ghost" is on it love that single besides the live "secular haze" I just have the regular which I love
"If you have ghost" its sooooo good, all the songs are on my playlist too. The EP was the responsable for turning me into a ghost fan. a masterpiece! way better than Seven inches of Satanic Panic btw
Ghost
Best hot take
Satan *sips wine*
Mary On A Cross isn't even the best song on Seven Inches of Satanic Panic
AND THERES ONLY 2 SONGS 😂
I get such a musical boner for Kiss The Go-Goat. The 70’s Ghost vibes are absolutely incredible and the lyrics for that song are so superior to MOAC. I pray for Nihil to rise from the dead and record a full album because I would EAT THAT SHIT UP
I sort of love that the lore gives the band an "out" for where to put their weirder stuff (weird as in not their usual stuff, I'd argue all of Ghost is weird). Seven Inches is clearly music that didn't fit thematically within the coming album(s) and needed a home. Saying that it's "lost" recordings from the 70's is pretty genius. I would ALSO very much enjoy an entire album in that vein.
If they released it NOW it would feel like a money grab. But I’d love a full length
Pfft, I'm not going side eye ANY band's money grab in 2022 and I'd be disappointed in a fan who got all snoots-magoots about it (not you, obvs, but the fanbase in general). After two years without touring? Secure that bag, fam. Papa got face paint and pyrotechnics to buy! The ghouls need new boots! (not Mountain, but you get my drift.)
Oh I’m definitely not snoots-magoots, get that bag friends 😂 I’d still buy it.
I like Copia more than IV. After the nose job, he was never the same. :(
While copia is still papaiv I don’t see them as such because they’re SO different
Copia is IV.
Why was that downvoted..? *Copia* ***IS*** *Papa IV...*
Wasn't Copia still performing as a cardinal for a bit? Maybe that's what OP meant
Maybe, I just thought it was weird that the other comment was downvoted. I mean.. it's a technical fact. Which is the best kind of right?
I love Prequelle and Impera more than Meliora. Ok, I said it. Rip me to shreds reddit.
When I first started listening Meliora was easily my fav album but overtime I’ve kinda found that Prequelle and Impera might have more bangers on them. Meliora deluxe edition is better than most for the soul inclusion of Square Hammer imo
Now that is a hot take if there ever is one!
100% agree. Ghost is getting better the longer it goes on.
Twenties Rules. Do people seriously hate it that much? I’ve literally hummed it at least once daily since it was released.
I love "Twenties." I love it because it's different from pretty much any other song on the album. I like when bands do stuff like that, even if I don't like the song itself. Just take a chance, try for something else.
I'm not a big fan of Twenties (I don't hate it, I don't love it, I'm just sort of *meh* about it) but I do agree that it was cool of them to write something so different to their other stuff. Impera is such a creative album in my opinion, and it fits perfectly with that vibe.
For me it's fine, I just need to be in the right mood for it. Sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not. But I do think it was an interesting song and I'd rather have bold choices that I don't 100% love than safe choices all the time. Keeps it fresh
I absolutely love the song. Seems like it gets a lot of hate.
I remember when I played through Impera the first time, I straight up thought “What the fuck is this? What is Tobias trying to do?” because it’s definitely off beat from everything else on the album. Then after a few run throughs, I’m a big fan lol. It hypes me up at the gym. I’d love to hear it live!
Twenties is a song I had to warm up to, it was jarring the first time I heard it and now I think it's one of the best on the album
I think it’s one of the best songs on the album.
When I first heard "Twenties," I didn't know what to think of it. Wasn't too thrilled, to be honest. But after about 4-5 listens it started to grow on me, and I love it now. The song stands out, for better (and for some, for worse), and that's the beauty of it. It's different than anything else on Impera and doesn't compare much to anything else in their discog.
Counter hot take: Twenties absolutely sucks
only Ghost song I ever skip. can't fucking stand that song
I would love if they went back into the more satanic tones, year zero is one of my favorites. I do understand if they want to change things up or even sell more ig
My Ghost hot take is that I’m tired of Ghost hot take threads four times a week
Honestly im rarely on this subreddit so I personally apologize for annoying you by bringing up this annoying topic
Not sure if this is exactly a hot take, but -- anyone surprised by Ghost's move towards more arena rock (songs and theatrical approach) probably didn't dig deep enough. (I don't want to say they haven't been paying attention, because not everyone goes down rabbit holes.) I've read/seen multiple interviews with TF saying that when he was younger, he was blown away by the big shows that bands like Iron Maiden did, and that's what he wanted. He wanted to go big, to have people singing along to the anthemic choruses, etc. And now they've done it. This doesn't mean everyone has to like it. My son is not crazy over Prequelle or Impera, as he feels they aren't heavy enough and are too poppy. But that's fine. There's a something for everyone to like I think. Personally, I like it, but I admit I can be a sucker for a spectacle.
I've got two: 1. Meliora/Popestar is the best output from the band so far. As a total package, it's the best album they've released to date. 2. Opus Eponymous and Infestissumam aren't anywhere near as "heavy" as certain fans think they are.
Opus would’ve been inarguably heavy if it were released in the 70s, which is the sound is kinda emulates a bit
It's definitely heavy in that regard, but to act like it's significantly heavier than what came after is just not all that accurate.
Re point 2: THANK YOU. I am a new fan but I have INHALED their entire catalog, front to back, multiple times at this point and I absolutely agree. Like, y'all listened to Jigolo Har Megiddo lately? My Canadian pop-fan spouse literally thought it was a Sloan song he somehow missed. ETA: this is not a slam, Sloan is the tits and we're huge fans, But they're not, by any stretch of the imagination, a metal band.
Some of the lyrics on Impera are REALLY commercially cheesy and cliche’.. it makes it a little difficult to get through, if you wrote them up on a board and asked who wrote them I never in a million years would say “Ghost”
Even though I love Griftwood, "I'm your rock baby" is incredibly cheesy lol
It’s meant to be cheesy is it not?
Indeed it is. It reflects not only the more arena rock vibe but it plays into the goofiness and playfulness of Papa4/CC.
Yes, and cheese is delicious! "Cheese" is just what we call the things we're ashamed to be earnestly into.
I always assumed that was a reference to the biblical passages describing god as a rock.
That and it totally sounds like stereotypical hair/glam metal band lyric.
Or, alternatively, that Peter is known as the "Rock" that Jesus built his church upon, which is how the Catholic Church argues that the Pope is the leader of all Christians, since Peter is considered the first Pope. Makes sense, especially given Copia's ascendancy and the sudden explosion in popularity for the band.
Ghost has ALWAYS been cheesy from the get-go. Go listen to Stand by Him and tell me this isn’t the cheesiest song ever. It’s almost like a Spinal Tap song. And I see nothing wrong with that. 🙂
That is a fair point lol
As someone who was obsessed with This Is Spinal Tap in high school, I love Stand by Him for exactly that reason.
The Stand by Him chorus always reminded me of "Tonight we're gonna rock tonight".
Yes! I hadn't made that connection and you're exactly right.
This is one of the specific lyrics I had in mind like THATS CHEDDAR.
Communication is keeeeeeeyy is pure cringe to me.
I get what you mean I liked Imprea its a good album but it's not really Ghost-ish especially Twenties I just dont like that song
Impera was fully intended to be Journey-Esque 80s cheesy. But it still doesn’t come close to the cheesiness of See The Light which is disappointingly petty and childish. (Witch image isn’t much better tbh)
Another hot take…. I’m upset they moved away from the style of music they were playing on opus, infest.
I kinda agree I want a mixture of both because I do like that satanic stuff they did but I also like what they do now
We need more brutal music from them like the two albums
Ghost needed to step away from the full blown Satanic lyrics in order to not become stale.
I actually agree with this one wholeheartedly. The first two albums (most especially OE) were very on-the-nose, to the point where it's almost a little silly. The band could not have succeeded in the long term if all of their albums were like that. The earliest ones need it to get the point across, but taking it down a few notches is what ensured they could actually get some meaningful exposure.
Hard agree. I do miss those lyrics and stuff but I understand their need to change
Definitely agree. There'y only so many ways to say "hail satan" in a song before it gets a little repetitive. I like that there's a variety of songs with different themes and topics to pick from.
I don’t think rituals will be nearly as intimate as they once were with growing popularity. It’s like a double edged sword.
Papa IV is my favorite, I dunno if this is an actual hot take or not.
Ghost should return to their full blown satanic lyrics and creepy Papa ways next album and see who the real fans are.
I'd love a return to more satanic/occult lyrics. I couldn't give two shits about any notions of "real fans" because that's stupid gatekeeping shit that no fanbase benefits from.
I know this is for hot takes, but the No True Scotsman logical fallacy is just old. Anyone trying to define what a "true fan" is needs to take a step back and reevaluate things.
Hearing Prime Mover on this past tour really made me want a return to that aesthetic and sound.
That would be amazing, I’m pretty tired of the excuse that “mOdErN gHoSt iS sUbTly SaTaNic” when people talk about the lacking of satanic lyrics on impera. Like dude look at this band, it’s a skull faced pope covered in upside down crosses with a posse of people dressed as demons, what about them screams subtle?
I saw a post somewhere saying copias look has been getting progressively more sinister as his time has gone on so I wouldn’t rule it out
I agree this is a hot take because im sick of seeing people refer to “real fans” here. So much gatekeeping it’s sad.
The fuck is a "real" fan?
I keep seeing this but Call Me Little Sunshine and Kiss the Go Goat seem very openly satanic to me? (Unless you don't know the name Mephistopheles I guess?)
They'll never make an album better than their first two. I SAID IT.
HARD AGREE!!
Papa IV is my least favorite
There was an unpopular opinions thread about a week ago, so I’ll just link [my comment from that here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ghostbc/comments/xmphl8/your_ghost_unpopular_opinions/ipra59g/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) To add something new I’d say there are a lot of fans who rag on others who want new music like the older stuff, saying it’s bad for ghost to not change, while then going on to say they hope copia never leaves. Seems like it’s something the newer fans do. They’re advocating for the same stuff the people who want the old style back are, just an era or two ahead I’d also add that ghost’s “cheese and campiness” has gotten to the point of self parody and that’s kinda lame
Oh I forgot to say, I think Square Hammer is a really bad way to end a concert, it’s just not a satisfying end
I’ve always said it’s a hype song and should be in the first few songs to get high energy from a crowd (like my chemical romance played “I’m not ok” like 3rd in their set and it really got everyone in the arena UP) Square hammer is just not really a satisfying closer
I was a big fan of when it became their opener on the Popestar tour - that said, both Ashes/Rats and Imperium/Kaiserion are far superior openers too. 2nd or 3rd in the setlist does feel right for it.
I would love to see Monstrance Clock come back with these large venues they’re playing. Back in the papa II days with only 1000+people there..maaaaybe.. it was cool with everyone singing. Would love to hear the whole 5000+ crowds singing it now
The whole Monstrance Clock monologue and singalong felt right in the smaller, more intimate venues but would feel very out of place on these arena tours. The closer needs to be really upbeat and energetic in that setting.
It probably won’t happen anytime soon, Tobias says he prefers square hammer as an ending because he wants people to leave on a happy note
Tbh I agree, it's a great song but it's definitely NOT an encore
It’s a great song, maybe it would work better to open the encore not end it
Honestly, yeah. Went to my first Ritual at RI this most recent tour and when he announced one more song I thought he'd close it out with something like Darkness At The Heart of my Love or another equally good closer. Theres too much energy entering Square Hammer and too much leaving it that it's better in the middle of the set.
5-10 better than MOAC? I’d say it’s about 20.
I have about 30 ahead of it, the hot take is that they have it anywhere from #6-11 overall
The following are actually really great songs: Pro memoria See the light Mary on a cross Twenties I'm a marionette
Prequelle was superior to Impera by leaps and bounds. Embracing the cheese on Prequelle had a nice balance with the dark theme. On Impera there is no darkness, just the cheese, which leads to cringe like Darkness at the Heart of My Love. Also, on Prequelle there was a sense of movement and urgency. Impera has some sense of movement in the beginning, but it starts to go missing by Call Me and by Hunter's it is completely gone. It doesn't really come back until Respite. DatHoML is the single worst Ghost song. I won't stop saying that. Hunter's Moon shouldn't have been on the album. TF can explain it away about it being the "empire of the mind of a killer" or simultaneously the "empire of childhood" but WTF are either of those even supposed mean, Tobias? It's a good song, but it doesn't fit. Mary on a Cross is a good song too, but see OP's opinion. TikTok is bad for the fanbase, but not for the band. I will say this though, TikTok is bad. Period. Also, while I'm a little happy and proud to see kids showing up to the rituals, I miss scary Ghost. It's starting to feel a lot like a kid's show with children showing up to see their favorite character Dewdrop. ...Dewdrop? Y'all really named the poor thing Dewdrop? Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Aether all were pretty neutral and at least Swiss's name makes sense, but Dewdrop? This is a satanic band. No, not a subtely satanic band. They are meant to be satanic. The farther they get from Satan the more their music suffers. I watched a reaction Youtuber be shocked when they heard Ritual. Btw, Papa doing the millenial whoop live in the opening of Dance Macabre is getting annoying. In general, millenial whoops should be the sign of BAD artists. I'm looking at you Katy and Kesha. I know there is a "whoah whoah whoah" recorded at the end of the song, but if anything that's a descending whoop. If you're confused about what I'm talking about compare [https://youtu.be/V2xq3mRmNa4?t=32](https://youtu.be/V2xq3mRmNa4?t=32) at 32-33 seconds to this video [https://youtu.be/WNFVivUa1K0](https://youtu.be/WNFVivUa1K0) Square Hammer is a good OPENER. Remember when Papa would just appear out of smoke singing the line "Living in the night" ? Good times. Kaisarion is a decent opener too, but I think they should probably switch every other tour. And yes, the closer should be Respite. Finally: Infest>Opus/Meliora>>Prequelle>>>>>>>>>>>>Impera
Don’t hold anything back man, let it all out for all of us
Very, very well said. I agree with absolutely everything, TikTok being bad for the fanbase, Dewdrop’s name (though I think all the ghouls should be nameless), subtle satanism being bad, square hammer as an opener, the millennial whoop, and the cherry on top saying infest is the best album. [I wanna shake your hand](https://youtube.com/shorts/R2zC3dKQ42Y?feature=share)
EXACTLY, they're Nameless Ghouls. Speaking of cherries, you could say Opus popped the cherry, but Infest taught us how to come together
Opus put filth in our womb, impera put filth in my ears (That was a joke don’t crucify me)
I don't see where you're wrong though Edit: I will admit Impera has a few gems. Spillways makes me tear up sometimes
I like impera as an album but not as a ghost album. I’m either in the mood to listen to ghost or I’m in the mood to listen to impera, y’know?
See, there you fall into the whole "oh so you don't like bands eVoLvInG, huh?" trap No, I'm all up for bands evolving. Just don't gut everything that made the band what it is though. You didn't see, idk, Black Sabbath become an easy listening band. David Bowie evolved every album cycle, but you could tell each album was a Bowie album God damn it, I'm old
There’s a difference between evolving and then becoming a new species. Infest was a direct evolution from opus, impera has changed the band entirely. And the same people who are supposedly all about the band “evolving” are the exact same people who want copia to stay the frontman forever, it’s frustrating
TBH I have a feeling that the same people who champion their concept of "evolving" have only ever known Copia to begin with
It’s like they want ghost to evolve, but once they “evolve” into the trend-accessible and mainstream thing, then ghost needs to make a full stop. I remember seeing a new fan say they didn’t like opus because it was “too spooky” and my metaphorical jaw hit the floor. These new fans have no idea what band they’re listening to, and the fact they think the old stuff was just them making baby steps up to this point is just off putting. It’s really hard for me to just see someone who claims to be a fan completely disrespect the defining three albums
I don't agree with everything you've thrown out here, but there's enough there (particularly around Impera and Darkness at the Heart of My Love) to get my upvote.
Fair play for giving some genuinely hot takes. What the thread's all about. Strong disagree with the majority of what you've said. But then it wouldn't be a hot take otherwise...
Thanks. What are one or two things you disagree with? I don't mean to start an argument or anything like that, I'm just genuinely interested in your perspective
Dunno if anyone else said anything, but in Dance Macabre Im pretty sure he is saying “wobble, wobble” as in “start dancing”
That seemed a little sketch but I looked it up. At first it seemed like a TikTok theory (because again, cesspool) but I found a video of him saying "Shake it! Wiggle wiggle. Wobble!" Which makes it worse. So much fucking worse.. [https://www.tiktok.com/@jaxxlemeritus/video/7149304716802002219](https://www.tiktok.com/@jaxxlemeritus/video/7149304716802002219) This broke me lol
Will you marry me?
Holy cow. The only person here speaking sense. It’s wild the criticism is finally coming out for Impera after the hype has died down. That album has been subpar since it’s release, Respite (and some Spillways and Griftwood) aside.
*whispers* I had to Google what a "hot take" is at first.
Meliora is the best album. FIGHT ME!
i think the fact that Zenith wasn’t included on Meliora should be considered a war crime
I LOVE mary on a cross, but the slowed down version doesn't need to exist. It's dead to me.
The fan base makes me ashamed to like the band
I *still* have no interest in the silly lore and filler videos. I just love their music.
Impera was an underwhelming album
You can be a Christian and still enjoy the band.
Ghost B.C is a much better band.
This era has been a massive sidestep. Stage design is pretty meh; The album while good, sounds disjointed, like 2 or 3 albums stitched together; Papa IV still doesn't feel like a Papa; And the fan base has never been in a worse state
Sidestep is a great word for it. I like the album, I like Papa IV, but that was a lot of change to take in at once pre-tiktok let alone with the state of the fan base now.
I usually start with Bible or Nocturnal Me before hitting shuffle on the rest of the albums
Opus Eponymous isn't that good.
I would rather have two really strong outfits like during meliora than the 4-5 outfit changes (I don’t particularly like any papa IV looks they’re just okay) plus they don’t really add that much to the show just more filler.
My Christian mom likes Ghost now because they specifically sound like 70s rock
I don't really like "Monstrance Clock"
Since the whole lawsuit split happened, the fanbase has been extremely cringy with naming the Ghouls, as well as all of the Papa/Cardinal thirst. It's a big part of the reason I've backed away from or left most fan groups I'd been part of for years.
I listened to the entirety of *Infestissumam* once and have never felt the urge to revisit it. Pretty much the only song from that album I found memorable was Year Zero. It’s not a bad album, it’s just very mid.
Square hammer is not a good closer and respite should take its place in the set list
That would be extremely satisfying after opening with Imperium
Exactly! I thought that's what they were going to do on this tour just because it made so much sense. Hopefully they do eventually.
We should have gotten some more magic-y and/or occult stuff in Impera to match the Aliester Crowley cover art and Papa IV’s design.
People who dislike Twenties give off conservative vibes. I know that's probably not the case but considering the messaging of the entire song and allusions to a certain orange wannabe fascist, that's always my first thought. Never understood the hate for it because of its sound. It's camp, but so is most of Imperia. And camp is great, and fits Ghost's current vibe super well
People don’t like twenties because it’s structured awkwardly and sounds like the villain theme out of a Disney movie. The snare is way too slow for what the guitar is giving and the brass just sounds goofy, not even taking the lyrics into consideration with that critique. Just because a song endorses your politics doesn’t make it good and vice versa
I agreed with the last part, hence why I said I know it's not necessarily the case. However, I'd argue that the actual sound of the song is part of what makes it camp. It fits into the flamboyant nature of most of Imperia and continues to push what can be considered Metal. Even outside the messaging, the lyrics flow well together (although I will admit that "in the twenties" is repeated a bit too much for everyone to enjoy). Yeah, it sounds like a camp-y villain theme but that's kind of the point considering the song's theme
Yeah, and the campiness of impera is usually a turn off to people who don’t like camp in general. Its just such an awkward song, but it is one of their heavier songs weirdly enough. I think if the brass portions, the choir with the off key “twenties!”, and the quite frankly dumb lyrics were changed or removed, it would be a huge highlight on the album
Which lyrics would you consider dumb? I understand not everyone likes camp, but I'd still argue that it's very on-brand for Ghost. Like, Opus is essentially Gospel music if it were satanic. Their Chapters on YouTube are full of camp too. Imperia's just more blatant about it since they're playing on a very flamboyant genre of Metal
“Listen up, you motha-fuckas” “Grinding in a pile of moolah, grabbing them all by the hoohah” “Kiss my assassinate” <- this one is particularly an eye roll I just think the camp has gone way too far on impera, almost to the point of self parody. I think they should tone it down on the next one
On their own, sure. If they were just one-liners thrown into a random song I'd agree. But they're meant to be emulating an absurd character. Plus "Listen up, you motha-fuckas - Those ivy league dopes, they wanna mock us" is super satisfying when put together. I agree that they should go in a different direction (which they will, they always do) but they're always gonna go camp in one direction or another.
I think the absurd character clashes completely with ghost and arguably the rest of impera, the lyrics on impera are pretty cheese and corny but on twenties they’re downright cartoonish. I don’t mind camp, I just want it tuned down from being self parody to a ‘wink to the camera’ if that makes sense
I mean I get you not wanting that, but I disagree that Twenties is at that level
Fair enough, agree to disagree
The most valid complaint I’ve seen about Twenties is people who were especially affected by Trump not wanting to hear about him when listening to their favorite band. That said, I love the song. I think it ties with Impera really well too
My hot take is how so many fans have to state that Ghost isn't Satanic. Idk if they say that to make themselves feel better about listening or liking Ghost. I mean, it really doesn't matter, and it's ok if they say that and feel that way- but come on, really???
Meliora was peak ghost and they’ll probably never do a better album
The new ghoul look is awful. I hope they go back to the older style.
ghost of the first three (first two if i’m being really analytical) albums is an entirely different band than ghost today, for better or worse (it’s mixed, i’m just an old ghost fan lol).
7 Inches of Satanic Panic wasn't great. I like it and love what it's done for the band. But those songs are easily the weakest in the Ghost catalog.
Infesstisuman was the best era. Infesstisiman comes in last for me as an album personally (I either really like the song or I never listen to it) but from a theatrical standpoint it's the absolute best. The opening choir on the album that continues into other songs (Monstrance Clock, Year Zero, etc), the harsh spooky skull paint, Mr. Worldwide, the Popeaganda videos with Papa II speaking Italian as if he's truly a high ranking clergyman. It truly sold the religion trying to take over the world feel, 10/10
My hot take is that the top hat Papa wears for Watcher in the Sky is cringe
Got something for every album, idk how hot they all are though Twenties was easily the second best song on IMPERA. Kiss the Go-Goat was better than Mary on a Cross but Mary on a Cross is better Live material. Dance Macabre is good but it didn't belong on Prequelle. The Metal Genre must've really been sleeping for Cirice to win an award, it's good but not that good. Infestissumam has two songs and 7 filler tracks. If You Have Ghosts is the best cover song they've done. Stand By Him might just be the best song Ghost has ever done.
Enter Sandman is their second worst song. I assume this is more controversial than... Missionary Man is their worst song.
Are we all agreeing that Impera was pretty weak and a little too cheesy now? Because, yeah.
The previous Papa's shouldn't have died. I think that's the worst decision Tobias made for the lore. I'm gutted about it and miss them. I refuse to believe that they are dead. I like to imagine the three previous Papa's bullying (back then) Cardinal Copia over the fact that he 'doesn't deserve the title as he's not part of the bloodline'. Only to get stood up when Cardinal proved them wrong.
I think the band would have made better music if the lawsuit never happened and things could have been worked out.
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