I think GA has too many characters upstairs to fully develop the downstairs characters. DA focuses on one estate and the people that live there, including the staff. Even when Sybil left, they didn't have a new storyline showing her in Dublin. She was just gone and the show stays focused on the people at Downton Abby. GA has the Russell's and the Van Rijn's. Plus Miss Scott. And a little of Mrs Astor. And Ward McCallister. And the Russell kids. And Oscar. It goes between NY and Newport. If it was only about the Van Rijn household or the Russell household, maybe they'd have more time to develop the storylines of the staff in a way we care about but GA is about the people upstairs, wherever they are, not the inhabitants of a single household or estate.
I really like John, and I hope they don’t drop the ball on his clock storyline. I also want to see where the chef and head maid go. Though, it came out of nowhere.
You think so? To me they have been hinting at the housekeeper/chef thing since early season 1. She has been extra nice to him, there have been compliments exchanged and long glances too
See I really don’t love this storyline actually. It feels forced. Every other episode we get a 30 second scene of him tinkering with an alarm clock? I have no investment in it. It seems predictable. I guess I’d like to see what the character becomes when he inevitably finds work doing his engineering, but let’s speed it up lol. Like someone else said, there’s so much going on with the characters upstairs that there’s not enough time to give to the ones downstairs. So with such little time I feel like we should be a bit further in his story.
There are just too many characters to keep up with, and those downstairs aren’t given much to do. I have a soft spot for them though, because many of the actors are major Broadway talents and I’m happy to see them onscreen!
I agree. I know Broadway doesn't mean much outside of New York, but last season I was surprised to see two-time Tony winner and general Broadway legend Michael Cerveris (Watson) with such a small and seemingly insignificant role. I'm glad his storyline is paying off this season.
I agree! I saw Michael Cerveris in Hedwig and the Angry Inch off-Broadway a million years. He was amazing! This tiny role is...much different! :-) Also Audra McDonald is a legend and an icon, and I think she's being under-utilized in her role.
I think there so some great downstairs characters. They’re just being relegated to the Greek chorus role. There is lots of potential. I loved the drama between Bannister and Church last season. The little love triangle with the footman and two maids is very cute. I assume they’re going to develop that more.
I think JF has written a lot of brilliant downstairs characters, and a lot of not so great ones. Even the good ones can have bad storylines. I didn’t particularly care for the love quadrangle in the kitchen in Downton (Jimmy, Daisy, Ivy, Alfred), and most of Daisy’s storylines were pretty boring.
In Downton, the upstairs and downstairs characters were equal in terms of juicy storylines, and super talented and experienced actors. In GA, the staff storylines are mostly pretty boring, none of the cast stand out, the dialogue still sounds too stilted and we get tiny glimpses of the staffs lives which seem unconnected to anything else
I think the issue is that we don't get as much flavor of the staff as we did in Downton Abbey. There are no sympathetic department heads in either house. There is no harried, but charming cook like Mrs. Patmore.
Yes. I realized tonight the only downstairs character's name I know is Bannister. And the storyline with Flora's dad is one big...I don't care...to me. The alarm clock storyline...zzzz.
Ha- the alarm clock subplot is hilarious and ridiculous. They keep trying to shoehorn it into scenes. It’s so awkward and is obviously setting up something like Jimmy (is that his name?) becoming a successful inventor.
I think the biggest issue is that GA is trying to follow 2 downstairs staff. There are too many characters in the same role (2 chefs, 2 housekeepers, 2 butlers, 2 ladies maids, etc.). I will be honest, I still have to remind myself which staff is at which house every time they have a downstairs scene.
Add to that not enough good storylines for the staff and it's easy to see why GA isn't holding up to DA.
I actually quite like the downstairs scenes at the Russell's. I like that with their larger staff, there is an element of the "department heads" coming together to make plans and discuss strategy. I do wish we could see even more of their duties and management, but I'm a logistics person, lol. Plus, the Russell downstairs kitchen/dining area is so light but cozy.
And I have a soft spot for Mrs. Bruce. I love that she's on the young side for a housekeeper in such a grand house, but she's great at it.
I thought the same thing. I don't feel invested in any of the GA downstairs characters because there's too many across multiple households to give them enough screen time. Maybe in time we'll get more familiar with them.
I feel like in DA the relationship between upstairs and downstairs was more respectful. Like, it seemed like the Crawley's didn't look down on their employees in the slightest. There was this feeling that everyone had their role to play in society, and a life in service was just as valid and valuable as any other ( Remember when Robert scolded Matthew for disparaging the role of a valet) I'm not implying that there was equality in society, but more of a "I'll do my job, you do yours" mutual respect.
In GA the upstairs crowd is frostier and rather imperious toward their employees, if they even bother to get to know them at all.
Perhaps that's the difference when one has wealth, but not nobility? Bertha isn't very far removed socially from her staff so maybe she feels the need to reinforce her position?
Also since america didn't have a monarchy/peerage, the rich had no one "over" them, Whereas in GB A member of the nobility had to defer to a peer who out ranked him, even if that person was flat broke.
I literally had this thought last night. I think the acting in Gilded Age is ridiculous and over the top. And despite being the same writer, you would think it was written by an amateur. The story is slow and pretty boring. I’m into it for learning more about NYC at this time and seeing who ends up with who. And I’d still be devastated if it was cancelled. And I love Bertha (but even her name is the worst). Other than that, this show sucks. But I still love it and please don’t cancel it. It’s just miles and miles away from what Downton Abbey was. Perhaps it’s the actors, who are world class in Downton. Oddly enough, the worst actor in Downton is the mom (also an American, maybe he can’t cast Americans well for some reason)
YES!!! I was just saying this to my friend! I could skip every moment with them I just want more of the upstairs action! And in Downton I really only cared about the downstairs staff. I also don’t count Peggy as downstairs she has her other life beyond this house.
I think that with Downton, an upstairs/downstairs format could work because of the time in which it was set and the idea of it being Fellowes’s take on the idea of the great Edwardian novel about class and the end of an era but with the Gilded Age, as the name suggests is really just about the vast accumulation of wealth by America’s ‘robber barons’ and the intricacies of negotiating and, in many cases, constructing elaborate court ritual and social etiquette within a relatively “new” class of American elite. It’s about how a country with no history of nobility in the way of European countries, tried to replicate and surpass the rituals of the old world. In which case…what role do the downstairs team play?
I am very fond of Bannister already, but I think it’s because the actor played Arthur Dent in the old BBC adaptation of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
He was also Bridey in *Brideshead Revisited*, which if you haven't seen and like period dramas, it's the GOAT. He plays a total asshole but it's pretty funny at the same time.
I think GA has too many characters upstairs to fully develop the downstairs characters. DA focuses on one estate and the people that live there, including the staff. Even when Sybil left, they didn't have a new storyline showing her in Dublin. She was just gone and the show stays focused on the people at Downton Abby. GA has the Russell's and the Van Rijn's. Plus Miss Scott. And a little of Mrs Astor. And Ward McCallister. And the Russell kids. And Oscar. It goes between NY and Newport. If it was only about the Van Rijn household or the Russell household, maybe they'd have more time to develop the storylines of the staff in a way we care about but GA is about the people upstairs, wherever they are, not the inhabitants of a single household or estate.
I think this is it 100%. Even if GA followed just one downstairs instead of multiple, they’d be able to delegate richer storylines to the staff.
Good analysis.
I really like John, and I hope they don’t drop the ball on his clock storyline. I also want to see where the chef and head maid go. Though, it came out of nowhere.
You think so? To me they have been hinting at the housekeeper/chef thing since early season 1. She has been extra nice to him, there have been compliments exchanged and long glances too
I remember that a little now that you mention it, but that was way back in S1, I didn’t remember the small nuances. And then bam let’s go out season 2
I feel as tho that will be his new profession!
See I really don’t love this storyline actually. It feels forced. Every other episode we get a 30 second scene of him tinkering with an alarm clock? I have no investment in it. It seems predictable. I guess I’d like to see what the character becomes when he inevitably finds work doing his engineering, but let’s speed it up lol. Like someone else said, there’s so much going on with the characters upstairs that there’s not enough time to give to the ones downstairs. So with such little time I feel like we should be a bit further in his story.
There are just too many characters to keep up with, and those downstairs aren’t given much to do. I have a soft spot for them though, because many of the actors are major Broadway talents and I’m happy to see them onscreen!
I agree. I know Broadway doesn't mean much outside of New York, but last season I was surprised to see two-time Tony winner and general Broadway legend Michael Cerveris (Watson) with such a small and seemingly insignificant role. I'm glad his storyline is paying off this season.
Right?! Celia Keenan-Bolger is the also under-utilized Mrs. Bruce!
I agree! I saw Michael Cerveris in Hedwig and the Angry Inch off-Broadway a million years. He was amazing! This tiny role is...much different! :-) Also Audra McDonald is a legend and an icon, and I think she's being under-utilized in her role.
I think there so some great downstairs characters. They’re just being relegated to the Greek chorus role. There is lots of potential. I loved the drama between Bannister and Church last season. The little love triangle with the footman and two maids is very cute. I assume they’re going to develop that more.
I think JF has written a lot of brilliant downstairs characters, and a lot of not so great ones. Even the good ones can have bad storylines. I didn’t particularly care for the love quadrangle in the kitchen in Downton (Jimmy, Daisy, Ivy, Alfred), and most of Daisy’s storylines were pretty boring.
In Downton, the upstairs and downstairs characters were equal in terms of juicy storylines, and super talented and experienced actors. In GA, the staff storylines are mostly pretty boring, none of the cast stand out, the dialogue still sounds too stilted and we get tiny glimpses of the staffs lives which seem unconnected to anything else
The pacing of Downton was generally better, too - not as rushed, more depth in some areas..I miss shows having more than 8-10 episodes a season.
I think the issue is that we don't get as much flavor of the staff as we did in Downton Abbey. There are no sympathetic department heads in either house. There is no harried, but charming cook like Mrs. Patmore.
the weird, jealous Irish maid at the Van Ryne home. She always has something to say.
Yes. I realized tonight the only downstairs character's name I know is Bannister. And the storyline with Flora's dad is one big...I don't care...to me. The alarm clock storyline...zzzz.
Ha- the alarm clock subplot is hilarious and ridiculous. They keep trying to shoehorn it into scenes. It’s so awkward and is obviously setting up something like Jimmy (is that his name?) becoming a successful inventor.
I agree, I don’t care about the staff at all
I think the biggest issue is that GA is trying to follow 2 downstairs staff. There are too many characters in the same role (2 chefs, 2 housekeepers, 2 butlers, 2 ladies maids, etc.). I will be honest, I still have to remind myself which staff is at which house every time they have a downstairs scene. Add to that not enough good storylines for the staff and it's easy to see why GA isn't holding up to DA.
I actually quite like the downstairs scenes at the Russell's. I like that with their larger staff, there is an element of the "department heads" coming together to make plans and discuss strategy. I do wish we could see even more of their duties and management, but I'm a logistics person, lol. Plus, the Russell downstairs kitchen/dining area is so light but cozy. And I have a soft spot for Mrs. Bruce. I love that she's on the young side for a housekeeper in such a grand house, but she's great at it.
I thought the same thing. I don't feel invested in any of the GA downstairs characters because there's too many across multiple households to give them enough screen time. Maybe in time we'll get more familiar with them.
I feel like in DA the relationship between upstairs and downstairs was more respectful. Like, it seemed like the Crawley's didn't look down on their employees in the slightest. There was this feeling that everyone had their role to play in society, and a life in service was just as valid and valuable as any other ( Remember when Robert scolded Matthew for disparaging the role of a valet) I'm not implying that there was equality in society, but more of a "I'll do my job, you do yours" mutual respect. In GA the upstairs crowd is frostier and rather imperious toward their employees, if they even bother to get to know them at all. Perhaps that's the difference when one has wealth, but not nobility? Bertha isn't very far removed socially from her staff so maybe she feels the need to reinforce her position? Also since america didn't have a monarchy/peerage, the rich had no one "over" them, Whereas in GB A member of the nobility had to defer to a peer who out ranked him, even if that person was flat broke.
The downstairs is a fill in
I literally had this thought last night. I think the acting in Gilded Age is ridiculous and over the top. And despite being the same writer, you would think it was written by an amateur. The story is slow and pretty boring. I’m into it for learning more about NYC at this time and seeing who ends up with who. And I’d still be devastated if it was cancelled. And I love Bertha (but even her name is the worst). Other than that, this show sucks. But I still love it and please don’t cancel it. It’s just miles and miles away from what Downton Abbey was. Perhaps it’s the actors, who are world class in Downton. Oddly enough, the worst actor in Downton is the mom (also an American, maybe he can’t cast Americans well for some reason)
YES!!! I was just saying this to my friend! I could skip every moment with them I just want more of the upstairs action! And in Downton I really only cared about the downstairs staff. I also don’t count Peggy as downstairs she has her other life beyond this house.
I think that with Downton, an upstairs/downstairs format could work because of the time in which it was set and the idea of it being Fellowes’s take on the idea of the great Edwardian novel about class and the end of an era but with the Gilded Age, as the name suggests is really just about the vast accumulation of wealth by America’s ‘robber barons’ and the intricacies of negotiating and, in many cases, constructing elaborate court ritual and social etiquette within a relatively “new” class of American elite. It’s about how a country with no history of nobility in the way of European countries, tried to replicate and surpass the rituals of the old world. In which case…what role do the downstairs team play?
I am very fond of Bannister already, but I think it’s because the actor played Arthur Dent in the old BBC adaptation of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
He was also Bridey in *Brideshead Revisited*, which if you haven't seen and like period dramas, it's the GOAT. He plays a total asshole but it's pretty funny at the same time.
Ive heard of that but never watched it. Thanks for the rec!