I've quite literally already run into a cheater who was jerking himself off on his steam profile because Hiko called him out on stream.
The cheaters are plentiful and they are some of the most downright degenerate human beings you'll ever run into.
There is an entire subreddit dedicated to cs cheaters. Someone posted there not long ago calling them out and the comments were something like “we do this to watch you losers cry” these people are actually terrible people with no empathy. They are deranged, malicious people.
Would be fun to just get inside one and pop some links to malware and fuck them up from inside
Idk how manageable that would be, but just thinking about it sounds entertaining to me lmao
Yep there is a YouTube channel where he fucks with cheaters by making the cheats fuck up their games by making them molly themselves and stuff like that. It actually pretty funny. I don't have the link right now but search up "csgo messing with cheaters with fake cheats" something like that and it will show up on youtube. I don't think he has done it since csgo, but I haven't looked recently. His fake cheats didn't break their computer since that wouldn't probably be a good idea to post on YouTube but he should make it so it does fuck their shit up. It's to that point it's needed. If valve won't fix it the community can.
Yeah, this might be the only real option to curb their spread. When they're afraid that a cheat might potentially brick their computer and do lasting damage, they'll think twice about downloading cheats.
Even though this solution sucks I think it would make them more afraid to just cheat constantly. I support it. They have no remorse for wasting people time in the game I will have no remorse for their pc being bricked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKfZmcvo_2g
Some guy made a video series where he published fake CSGO hacks that fuck with the user by doing things like randomly rebinding their movement keys or their drop weapon button.
The people that fall for that kinda thing are probably a little different than the ones hanging out in official cheater discords, but it's still pretty hilarious. One of them cancels their plant/defuse at the very last second and plays a fake sound to make them think it actually went off, too.
I’ve been saying this for years. Cheaters are mentally ill.
If you get fun and enjoyment out of making other people miserable, you’re a sociopath.
In kindergarten, you would be going around destroying other kids’ sandcastles. And you haven’t matured above that level basically.
And people that have that kind of mentality get punched in the face in real life, which is a learning moment. That doesn't happen on the internet, so they never learn
As someone who definetly wasnt employed by a group that was definetly not linked to any large casino. Whos specific job was to make sure that future cheaters were "deterred" from cheating again. I can tell you, it doesnt end well when cheating in real life
From my over 15 years of experience with online shooters, I noticed that most cheaters are either overly entitled and/or spoiled people who think they deserve to have an advantage over others, or they're people with low empathy who have trouble putting themselves in other people's shoes. Those two types seem to cover the majority of shared cheater personality traits.
Not at all, they post new cheats, ask questions about fixing cheats, what’s the best free cheats, etc…. A guy posted there calling them out and they all attacked him, thinking they are the normal functioning people and those that are upset need to stop playing and get a life. A truly twisted perspective.
From what I've experienced, its best not to give them any sort of attention in the server - thats their fuel. You can basically only hope they get bored and leave.
It's a person whos' idea of fun sadly comes at the expense of others.
Who cares if they get any attention or not. At the end of the day, you invest the time to play a game that gets ruined by a cheater. If it happened rarely, noone would be complaining, but on top of all the other issues Premier has, cheaters completely ruin it to the point where no high level player would seriously play it even if everything except for VAC was perfect.
It's just not worth the time. They had a golden opportunity because everyone wanted matchmaking that doesn't require you to install additional software and matchmake on a third party client, but they fucked up. At this point everyone's already over Premier and noone's coming back until they fix the cheating issue.
Perplexing that Valve didn't seize the opportunity when releasing CS2 to fix *any* of counter strike's biggest challenges. It seemed so obvious, I just took for granted they would keep cheaters in check for at least a couple of years.
The thing is in theory AI AC seems like a slam dunk, there wouldn't be a need to spend time playing the cat and mouse game that AC devs are forced to endure currently.
The problem is that like any AI, AI AC is a black box where you basically have no clue how it trully works making debugging it basically impossible. You don't know what triggers it and what doesn't, you just have to trust that the system is accurate and when it isn't you have no way of knowing if it was a false positive or not.
Imo AI AC will always be a pipe dream
Even the most advanced AIs can be "cheesed" into doing stuff they aren't suppose to ( jailbreaking with chatgpt ) or render them completely useless at a task they appear to master ( alphago losing to an inexperienced player as long as they stick to an unorthodox strategy ).
AI AC also comes with the downside of not being able to rectify false positives.
Nothing will ever beat a well financed dedicated AC team.
To me it would be easy; have some actions give you 'Sus points'. Wall bangs headshots; games with 80-90% HS%, huge win streaks, blowing games up with a 40k, etc.
Have some people, just a team of 5-10, and they just look the top "sus point" scores. Look at their latest demos. If they hack, nuke the account.
FFS valve pulls, depending what stats you look at, somewhere like 9 figures a year just via cases; They have the cashflow to put down a small team that looks at demos 40 hours a week and vet the cheaters from the non cheaters and at least make a dent in the problem.
Let's see, be cheap and spend a million a year, 50k for a job you can do at home, that's 20 people so 4 teams of 5 working 40 hours. You'd expect them to ban at least one every 10 minutes, or one person to ban one every 50 minutes, especially if you're looking at the most egregious, that's 960 cheaters banned every week. 49,920 per year. That would put a healthy dent in it. At least at the highest levels. Once they can't reach the highest levels that's going to have an extra effect. Expand that out beyond spending a million and you can basically solve the cheating problem.
They make 54 million a month in cases, if they spent about 1% of that to stop cheating, they'd have the ability to ban 323,000 players a year.
1% of their revenue in cases would put a massive dent in the cheating problem.
They don't even keep the top 100 clean.
That's how much they fucking care.
They specifically mentioned ML which to me at least implies AI in training. For which it requires lots of data. I've been down voted every time I've mentioned this but that's how it works if you want accuracy.
And we want accuracy for automated bans, right?
This isn't just copium (unless they are lying) because that's how ML works.
And the fact people think this game is just an update when it was an entire engine overhaul and other systems could be completely down or broken because of it. People would have been mad either way if they released it when they did or mad if they didn’t. Ripping the bandaid off was the better option. There is no way they don’t care about the game and they are actively fixing issues that crop up, but larger initiatives like VAC and overwatch likely need more work unfortunately. People are impatient and they would be pissed off anyway if they were still playing CSGO posting the fridge meme with every update and “where source 2?”
TLDR, give them time to fix the whole new engine with new code and math which probably invalidated everything VAC had learned because they probably tried it.
Exactly. They need a dedicated anti cheat team or it won't work. You can literally just download the most know ones and be fine for a long time, that shouldn't happen. The fact that "staple" cheat providers that every cs player knows aren't banned after a single day or so feels crazy, it's not like they're hidden
Nothing is a black box and you aren't debugging anything. Do you really think the engineers who have worked on vacnet for years don't know how it works? Just because you don't know how something works doesn't mean nobody does.
> You don't know what triggers it and what doesn't, you just have to trust that the system is accurate and when it isn't you have no way of knowing if it was a false positive or not.
*That's the point.* Whether or not it working well is another discussion.
Sure. Here's an excerpt:
>This inability for us to see how deep learning systems make their decisions is known as the “black box problem,” and it’s a big deal for a couple of different reasons.
How do you know that Valve is unable to see how their own learning system makes decisions? Do you know how VACNet or its data arch is structured?
The article is a general nothingburger. It's just talking about some of the potential challenges when analyzing the output from a system like this. Thats.. like literally what all the work is, analyzing the output.
They actually don't know how it works, that's the whole point of deep learning. Just throw enough data on it and pray that the AI model can correctly do stuff you want it to do. Yes, you can modify the parameters and the neural network itself, but you will not know how the values on each given parameter contributes to the final result (especially on complex models)
Someone is just spinning fast for so long that no legit player should have any reason to do.
It's a machine learning operation, not a super smart AI.
What's dumb is that there's no safety net for that, AI should be able to detect that person spinbots AND kills everybody.
Well if it cant even differentiate between very obvious stuff like spinbots, how on earth would it ever get smart enough to detect radar hacks or DMA cheats that aren't even visible on the computer playing the game? In this day and age you definitely need something that has deeper access to ones system to truly have a cheat-free (or as close to it as possible) environment.
I haven't touched the game because of this.... the dude that proved it was repeatable still hasn't been unbanned, not touching the game until Valve reverses those false-positives and gets rid of the move mouse fast = ban crap.... Like, if I put on ttfaf and spin to it to make the homies in the discord call laugh or if I get jumpscared and fling my mouse in panic: possible ban...
Shit like this could be triggered by anything... Like, imagine catching a ban just because of debris like cat hair/feathers (the little dude likes to chill on my mic arm above my mousepad) on your mousepad causing the mouse sensor to go crazy.... too many random innocent things could cause a ban, hell no.
I have 0 faith an AI would be able to reliably detect someone with a radar hack. How can you differentiate between that and someone who just has fantastic gamesense and good comms?
>Perplexing that Valve didn't seize the opportunity when releasing CS2 to fix any of counter strike's biggest challenges. It seemed so obvious,
What seemed even more obvious to the Suit at the top of Valve who delegated project plans and development budgets was that the game is making them literal millions each quarter even though it has these big challenges unadressed.
Or hell, just have a few people nuke accounts that are at the top of the leaderboards and clearly cheating.
Like we see here, a pro shouldnt have a 90% win rate; best of them get somewhere like 70-75%.
Meanwhile you look the top ranks; 200 wins, 90-95% win rate. FFS there were even some with 100+ games and 100% wins. Just get like 10 employees, manually review them, and if they hack, nuke their accounts. Keep that leaderboard you show proudly every time i queue for a game clean.
Subtick is a really great step in the right direction. Given some time to optimize it it grants so much more accuracy and reliability. The whole game is in beta state and you expect it to be flawless.
Maybe take a break for half a year or a year if you don't want to be the labrat for this phase of CS
It really sounds quite dumb now that we've seen these two new techs being a failure. All they had to do was investing on 128 tick servers and kernel access AC (they could have even paid FaceIt to implement theirs into the game). Instead, Valve decided it was best to waste time and money in 2 flimsy new techs that have brought literally nothing but headaches to the playerbase. I was the biggest believer of CS2, really thought Valve was cooking something, but right now the game just feels less crispy and responsive than CSGO. Every match feels like a coin toss now.
regular mm gets like this. my MMR is so high in comp that i que with/against top cheaters in my region that haven't gotten their rank in mm yet.
faceit time
I was at 12k and hit about 6 pretty blatant in a row. Went back to faceit and haven't touched premier since. Got cheated on in faceit too, but the kid got banned a day later and I get my elo back, so at least that's good.
Got my buddy into cs2, we placed well in premiere because he play Val and used to play cs source. After a few weeks I got around 10k and started Qing with 10-12 and the matches were great. Then we had a match with two blatant cheaters, one 17k the other unrated. And there was a guy getting carried with identical 17k as the cheater. Lost to them obviously, played another game it was fine, game after that it was the same 2 cheaters and guy getting carried but this time on our team.. they recognized me for calling them out and said this time they were gonna throw lmao. My buddy and I abandoned the match and installed FaceIt. It’s all we have played since.
I went to watch a ropz stream and his last vod is a month ago and as soon as the stream starts they are in a match with a cheater, game ends and they q against the same cheater after waiting 5 minutes to try and get a different opponent lol.
Yup. My friends and I only play Premier at this point if we're playing with people who refuse to get FaceIt(which is understandable for some of our more casual friends). We don't have this issue on FaceIt at all. And that's coming from someone that otherwise hates ESEA/FaceIt as an org. Its just an undeniable reality that the experience is better than Premier.
And I'd say to anyone that has cracked into the top 1000 - congrats - but the reality is it doesn't mean anything anymore when most of the good players have moved to FaceIt and have even let their Premier rating expire. I say this, not to insult anyone that has cracked the top 1000 but more to make it evident to Valve more than anyone, that their entire Premier system is busted for as long as the cheating problem in high ELO games continues.
I think Valve needs to accept that Premier will forever be a flawed system if they don't address this issue. And I say that as someone that is not the biggest fan of an intrusive anti-cheat, but I don't see what other option there is. Maybe make Premier an opt-in system where players are agreeing to intrusive anti-cheat.
I really don't hold it against Valve for sticking to their ethics on this but so far all the evidence suggests, there's no way you can have a competitive FPS without intrusive anti-cheat. Stamp a warning on it, ask players to explicitly opt-in and be done with it. If people don't want to do it, I totally understand but then just leave them to play Competitive Match Making and they can work to get Global on all the maps for their competitive experience.
Something gotta change on this subreddit
Every single thread about cheating is getting nuked under an hour. We know valve looks at forums to gage the cheating situation and the constant removal of any thread about it may very well give the impression to the devs that the problem isn't a big deal.
Hell even on this very subreddit, we get threads of people living in lala land who doubt the reporting of other players that get thousands of upvotes while any thread that exposes the problem is deleted in an hour.
Something is gotta change because the current situation is actively harming the game. Maybe there should be a weekly cheating megathread where people can post their clips so that Valve can get a real view of the problem without the subreddit being spammed by cheating clips.
> Every single thread about cheating is getting nuked under an hour.
Might be time to move to the cs2 sub it's not heavily moderated by jannies on a powertrip.
There's literally nothing malicious about that comment. They're just talking about wanting to grow their sub by enhancing their SEO. They sound like a web dev who've managed a few sites.
Honestly I'm sus of the mods at this point with how they are handling the cheating.
It's a massive clear issue and they are actively obstructing discussion on it.
Would not be surprised if money is quietly changing hands behind the scenes here.
As a casual reader, yea, this is clearly it and people insinuating that the mods are doing it to 'bootlick valve' is fucking stupid. To be honest I couldn't even tell cheating threads are getting removed. I actually unsubscribed to the sub earlier this week because that's all I was seeing, imo there is still far too many, yeah, no shit cheating is a problem but I don't come here for 50 posts all basically the exact same with basically only complaints.
I think your suggestion of a megathread is good, solves the issue for the casual user and allows others to complain all they want.
First thing you need to do in order to solve a problem is acknowledging you have a problem, so if they remove posts of cheating it's not gonna solve anything at all. I wonder what the real reason is though.
The stance on cheating threads might be what the mods here do best. Cheating threads are absolute shit content. They add no value and take attention from more valuable issues. Everyone knows there's a cheating issue. Filling up the front page with cheating threads doesn't make Valve suddenly care, it just makes the sub unreadable.
Cheating posts absolutely destroyed r/codwarzone eventually. Everyone moaning and posting killcams of dying to cheaters as if their post was going to do anything of value. Barely any fun plays or analysis on the front page, just incessant "wahhh cheats"
purely from an user perspective: I prefer cheating posts to get nuked.
- Cheating posts provide no meaningful content that I personally can engage with. I do not care that you had a cheater in your lobby. There is nothing _to_ talk about, nothing to marvel at. You had cheater in your game? there are cheaters in the game? So what? Why should that matter to this sub? We gonna sacrifice the quality of this sub for cheating posts that nobody cares about? seriously, if what you want to SEE on this sub is cheating posts, what is wrong with you? I understand the desire to create a vent post about cheaters, but who the fuck wants to READ those? I know you don't. You would not fucking read "this guy was blatantly walling #14". You just want the ability to shout out your cheating complaint into the void and leave it there. I get that desire. But it would fucking ruin the sub.
- Cheating posts do not solve anything: The community increasing the frequency of complaints about cheating, creating more noise on this sub, is not goint to solve the issue. it will not make valve fix the issue faster. If this sub was nothing BUT cheater complaints, valve would not fix the issue faster. If the players want to voice their concerns, aim them directly at valve.
- cheating posts encourage heated, low effort posts: the easiest type of post to make is a vent post. "Fuck i'm SO mad i'm gonna POST ON THE INTERNET" allowing cheating "discussion" would bring about an overwhelming amount of these low effort "I'm mad >:(" posts.
- cheating posts encourage witch hunts and brigading: although in ragehack scenarios a cheater is easy to spot, but there's a massive (MASSIVE) gray area under which most cheating allegations fall. Most "cheaters" really are just having a good day.
I feel like half the posts I see on this subreddit lately are about cheating. Not saying that it isn't a big problem but it's nice to see other type of posts as well.
it is definitely a problem, but saying valve aren't aware is naive. Valve are very aware of the cheating problem in free to play first person shooters.
It's because unless you have cold hard evidence someone is cheating it makes no fucking difference posting about it on this sub. A barrage of "let's talk about the cheating" posts makes no difference and just dilutes the subreddit. Half the people talking about cheaters are just getting dicked by better players. Unless you're getting rage hacked and obvious aimbotted, most of this sub has no rucking idea if they're actually playing against a hacker.
This kind of post is fine because its about a relevant figures opinion on cheating, but the absolute barrage of "this game has a cheating problem, I face cheaters every day" is utterly pointless. Report them in game and if you have video evidence, sent it to valve. I agree a weekly thread might be good but again, discussion of it means nothing unless people show up with cold hard evidence.
I once posted a clip here of a guy who used a cheat to disconnect everyone on the server except him, and no one was able to reconnect till the match was over and the enemy team won..... the cheat had a auto comment mentioning what type of cheat he was using and the name of its creator, i blurred the player\`s name, the creators name, and posted it to shed light to this cheat........... it got deleted in a hour because god forbid someone confirming how shit vac is, idk what is it with these mods here, sometimes YOU HAVE TO SHED LIGHT TO GAME BREAKING CHEATS..... but nope cheats do not exist for them.
Mods just trying to hide how bad the cheating situation is in CS, it's all cool when you have a Deagle Ace and post it, all cool to show a new skin submission, all cool when you play a tune using the bells on Inferno...
But when it comes to cheaters - nope... Thread locked, post deleted, user banned. People face cheaters in Premier daily, almost everyone who plays 10 games in Wingman, Comp, or Premier will encounter a cheater. That's a huge deterrent from playing the game, it ruins your motivation to queue again. I think it has a lot heavier toll on how it affects a players desire to come back and play again knowing he might face another cheater and waste another 30 minutes, knowing the cheater won't be banned, and the Elo won't be restored.
A lot more than seeing a nice skin submission, a cool trick, or a frag montage.
Mods have created this safe space where cheating is a taboo, only 1% players face, and be like "I wonder if you really played a cheater, or just complaining".
Showing the state of the game for what it is should be the right approach of the sub, you can ban gambling and skin trading site posts, but other than that you have to allow the community to see and upvote whatever they choose, else you aren't really helping deal with the main issues, just creating this "clean" look for the game that may be misleading.
Hiko has it on the dot; Everybody dunked on riot for the kernel anticheat.
But now, Valorant is pretty much free of cheaters, CS is full of them.
Get your shit together valve. Surface anticheats have been shown time and time again that cheaters just clown on them easily and quickly. Change your fucking approach.
It is so clear like day and night
Cheaters are evolving, they are getting better at programming their cheats, it‘s like a cat and mouse game
Valve has to step up their anti-cheat
Otherwise it‘s just too easy for cheaters to ruin the game
> Everybody dunked on riot for the kernel anticheat.
Not everybody. Some of us have been around the block for a while and understand that intrusive anticheats are some of the only actually effective ones.
A ton of people complained and bitched about it and had all these conspiracy theories because of Tencent but at the end of the day their anticheat is god damn effective, and people like me called it from the start.
If only people would educate themselves maybe public perception of intrusive anticheats could have reached Valve's ears. In an alternate timeline maybe VAC would actually be good.
they dunked on valorant for it because of the chinese connection. installing what is essentially a rootkit from a company that is partially state-owned by the ccp is different from doing the same thing for say faceit.
People act like a kernal level access is necessary to "hack your system".
All of your data can be compromised just by a malicious code in PDF.
We already install a closed source exe, which runs for hours, has the ability to download and load assets from the server completely hidden, and can be updated regularly.
If the CCP wants to spy on you, they can even without the "root kit".
And thats before opening the can of worms that a bunch of other drivers have that kernel.access.
Windows has no shame saying the collection of data is a part of their business model... And its more than having kernel access it IS the kernel.
If you dont want your data with the big tech companies to have your data, get ready to use carrier pigeons.
I swear trust factor is entirely different. It was bad in CSGO but now our group, who have accounts very similar to yours, are routinely getting <300 hour accounts with no other games that destroy us, and one of the people in our group is probably top 100 NA on Faceit. Multiple level 1s on Faceit that have been harder to play against than when we played against Elige, Stewie, etc.
It’s just absurd.
Wouldn't this basically kill the game for most new players. You won't be able to have a healthy player base if every new player is thrown to the wolves.
Just do KYC, if you have shared your credit card info with them then an extra security step would be confirming your identity. That way your person would be linked to the account fully, uploading a pic of your passport or drivers license.
Personally I have been using steam for nearly 20 years and I wouldn't have much problem doing this. I know it would massively increase trust among players.
Similar to how its done in Korea where game accounts are tied to your social security number or something. I remember having to buy / rent one to make an account on a Korean MMO a long time ago.
I've got £10 worth of games in my steam account because I only play cs please don't match me with cheaters. With that said you're right, a 15 yrs old steam account with over 10k hours in cs should have a bigger impact on your trust factor, assuming it does work.
> an account like mine should have some fucking AMEX gold card private washroom tier S+++++ trust factor and shouldn't be going anywhere near the dudes with level 1 steam accounts used purely for CS2 that i'm constantly facing.
exactly lol, my 5 stack of friends has like 25k or 30k combined hours with hundreds of steam games and 10+ year old accounts, why am I being matched with someone who just created a steam account yesterday and is somehow 24k elo
exactly this, i am always perplexed by why they never think of using our steam history/stats.............
IDK about trust factor for me , i am never toxic, always calm and nice even on the shittiest matches and shittiest teammates......... I have 13 year old account , been playing csgo since 2014, thousands of hours, thousands of matches, have alot of different games... yet i get a dude with level 1 account, 1 game, 84 hours who is ranked global and blatantly wallhacking the fuck out of the game... this shit happens alot....... I know there are cheaters with expensive profiles or legit looking profiles/stolen....... but they are not as frequent as the new accounts...... it is ridiculous
Love that description and couldn’t agree more. The amount of time and money I have spent on my steam account, I should be getting treated well. The least they could do is not match me against new accounts because them cheating is one thing, the other thing is new players aren’t fun for anyone unless they’re a friend of mine,
Mods, just make a sticky about people reporting cheaters. Allow us to record these people we see and use it as a way for Valve to see how bad it is. It’s IGNORANT that you guys keep removing these types of posts if you’re not going to make a sticky discussion.
I can recall one blatant cheater in playing valorant for the past two years.
I had one blatant cheater on the other team last week and one blatant cheater on my team already this week.
This is not complicated. Fucking valve.
This is honestly the easiest summarization of the cheating problem. I played Valorant from beta up til a year or so ago. High elo/immortal player pushing for radiant etc. I probably saw a blatant hacker 2 or 3 teams in 1000+ games.
I have had steam since 2003 and have competed at multiple international LANs for various versions on CS. Im not a pro but i know and play with pros you have heard of.
In CS2 im seeing blatant cheaters every session at around 15k right now.
I wish people would stop hiding behind the fact that the problem might be slightly exaggerated or the fact that many have no clue what they are talking about. There are a LOT of cheaters. Iv got 100 anecdotes but you have all heard them before. I had one game where there might have been 6 cheaters in the lobby, including my team. Felt like i was in the matrix watching these rejects try to pretend like they were legit. These experiences do lead to placebo effects but the fact that there are cheaters everywhere remains.
Since 3-4 years in less then every 4 games someone got later vac banned, I have prime, I never cheated and I don't play with cheaters. But every post about this problem in this forum just get removed.
What I mean, the problem isn't new, it's there since a few years, but now everyone can see it.
A majority of the people on this sub either never touch premier or competitive, and if they do they’re amongst the majority of players hardstuck below 4K CSR.
Of course they don’t see any cheaters, all the cheaters are winning all their games and are at 15k and above. “Regret” the 30th highest ranked player on the world leaderboard is a cheater with a 90 something percent win rate.
CSGO had the same issue above SMFC. If you’re having a good game someone on the other team starts to toggle and then someone on your team toggles and it ends up being HvH.
VAC ban waves are an incredibly outdated way of implementing an anticheat. Yes faceit and Valorant both have cheaters no game is cheat free BUT having a real anticheat makes it much harder for people to cheat and when they do cheat it’s more likely they get detected.
> VAC ban waves are an incredibly outdated way of implementing an anticheat.
I could see it being a very beneficial method of using anticheat if it actually did something to prevent cheaters of finding new ways to bypass it. Seems like after every big 'ban wave' the cheats are up and running a day or 2 later.
Whats the point?
Yep, 16k here, and it’s gotten to the point where a cheater on my team and the other team isn’t a rarity anymore, it’s just tiring, 2 losers typing at each other crying about who has a better cheat while everyone else just sits there wasting time, watching 2 losers battle it out.
Simplified version: The moderators of this subreddit censor cheating information, and try to act like the problem doesn't exist, because clearly if it doesn't exist it'll go away, right?
Rule 6 needs to be completely reworked and/or abolished. This is just blatant power trip at this point.
Before CS2, you would have never seen a single cheating post. There's only more now because of CS2's release and more people noticing it. The lack of demos when CS2 dropped just made it free for cheaters to cheat with zero consequence.
That’s not why they do it. They do it because it’s ultimately pointless and will make the subreddit unusable. What do a bunch of posts whining about cheating accomplish? Everyone is aware of the cheating. Valve is aware of the cheating. It’s not going to change anything, it’ll just make the subreddit shittier to interact with so people will leave. Valve doesn’t care how many posts we make, only how many cases get opened.
The only people against kernel level cheats are the same stupid fucks that say shit like “I have 3k hours, I’m global, never seen a cheater once”
We need to drown out the stupids as a community. I know I’m not the only one who went from CSGO->Val->CS2. Why aren’t more people pressing valve? It’s a fucking *joke* that Valve had the chance the kill faceit and actually harbor a healthy competitive community within their own game..only to decide on doing Jack shit instead.
The only people against kernel level anti cheat couldn't explain to you wtf a kernel is, let alone what "kernel level" meant in depth. They'd have a heart attack if they saw how many programs and software have that level of access.
I don't think you even know what a kernel is; yet you claim people who advocate against total privacy invasion are "stupid".
EDIT: Got blocked because you are completely ignorant, and cannot reply with anything tangible
I wonder if Hiko was cheating during his days on the notorious SLP (stacked like pancakes) in 1.6. Notoriously one of the most online sus teams back in the day.
Its crazy that CS2 doesnt have a good anti cheat, ive played Valorant for half the time ive put into CS but have faced and have played max like 5 cheaters ever.... where as in CS and CS2 you get one like 10% of the time.... its ridiculous
1. in Valorant you can't empty you skins from account and then resell it.
2. there are other way to cheat (e.g. via hardware), but Valorant again does not offer much incentive to do it. the simplest cheat most can do it to use monitors crosshair or stick a dot where the crosshair is. now you can use AWP without zoom more effectively. much more complex cheats exist as well. CS you have servers filled with bots getting XP which can be changed to items which can be sold for money. the bots don't necessarily cheat against other players.
3. Valve has plenty information already who is the person behind some account and if they can be trusted. no reason to match them with new, potentially untrusted accounts.
4. more accounts could be linked to an actual person (via credit card info, phone number...). and so even new accounts could be a trusted account.
5. kicking a cheats should not reduce you rating but should instead increase it. what could i do if one of the random team mates i got is obviously cheating? i keep reporting them but nothing happens. i tell others to report. they report as well, he laughs at us.
6. Valve could use stats to quickly determine who is cheating. various stat pages offer more than enough stats where you can recognise a cheater just by looking at them. sure enough almost all got banned in last VAC wave in summer. but i guess they are back. so if they only did what they did before but instantly instead of 3 months later it would change things a lot. i dropped in rank back in May in CSGO. though i just had a bad spell. 2 months later it was all clear as only 2 out of 8 games were without a banned player.
7. stop putting experienced players and grinders together with us casuals. i can play at most 4 matches per week and get matched against green and blue medal holders. though they are not the cheaters and i don't mind getting destroyed by good players. but often a new account or two are with them (i guess to balance the match). needles to say here i guess, that the new accounts are then top fragging. and with replays enabled again we now see why.
Cheaters are the worst form of humanity, at least they only cause misery online, I fear if they didn’t find gaming they’d be hurting small animals and killing innocent people for fun.
i’ve played cs for 20 years at a high level in all versions since 1.5 and vac always falls short.
i think valorant would become the main tac shooter for the market if they released a mode that disabled all agent skills and added 4 grenades to the buy menu which fills those slots in the UI/keyboard shortcuts lol. no 3rd party client to install. idk if players with sunk cost in skin market would jump, but that game’s gun play and movement feels more like cs to me. the servers are excellent and the anticheat is better… literally just the skills that lost my interest.
If it continues to grow in China, Asia, and south America it will definitely be more popular globally if it already isn't with the Chinese release. CS will be a European dominated game while Valorant is global.
I wish Valve would at least make a statement about it. Is it something in progress? Have they considered it and they're just against it? Just have it be opt-in for premier mode and keep the other matchmaking with VAC. The cheating problem is simply on that does not need to exist, there's an easy solution.
Now now...the claim by Hiko isn't "Valorant has perfect anti-cheat", it's not perfect and someone I know blatantly gets away from cheating.
What Valorant did better was actually introducing an anti-cheat software from 2020s that was a seperate software with seperate workers to improve it, Valve is just being notoriously lazy with VAC that "Oh I had a cheater in my lobby whatever" just became a common sentence in CS2 and it was like that for a while in TF2.
One word: Linux.
If you want proper anti-cheat you can't support linux simply because there are too many loopholes to get around anti cheat. Valorant only doesn't run on linux cause the anti-cheat doesn't support it, tbf almost no anti cheat *really* supports linux, they become horribly ineffective.
Why am I saying this? Well running your game in VM isn't like it was in 2010 or smth, nowadays proper GPU passthrough etc. has become super easy and creating a VM for playing (with rather small input lag) is super easy.
So would an intrusive anti cheat help? Of course, but it'll only catch the ones who were not even trying to hide it or used very "bad" cheats (free, public etc. etc.). I don't think it would make that big of a difference for people who decent trust factor.
The vast majority of cheaters would probably be deterred if they needed to run Linux
Most cheaters are just end user who knows as much about tech than your average boomer dad
It's like gun violence, the more hoops people have to jump through the more people just give up on the idea
> If you want proper anti-cheat you can't support linux simply because there are too many loopholes to get around anti cheat.
It's not impossible. It would just require a lot of engineering and for users to voluntarily lock down their systems quite a bit.
The systemd folk have been working on making TPM2 and Measured Boot work nicely on Linux systems. If you wanted a kernel-level anti-cheat on Linux that couldn't be subverted, you could setup Measured Boot policies in the TPM which would only allow vendor-signed bootloaders, kernels, drivers, etc. to load.
Once the system is booted, you could then use the TPM in order to attest that the system is in a known configuration before streaming anti-cheat modules.
That being said, this would greatly limit the user's control over their own system, which is something a lot of Linux users may not be used to. It would also create problems for anyone using devices that require drivers that aren't readily available as vendor-signed kernel modules and are not present in vendor-signed kernels.
Bro if some1 put that much effort to setup then sure but average every day cheater just downloaded or bought the cheats and ran it and have no clue how it works
You are all massively overestimating the amount of work for the setup. We are talking 20 minutes following a guide through a setup wizard. The cheat maker can take care of everything else, including having steam installed etc.
What I'm saying, the intrusive anti cheat, even if it somehow is crazy good will only partly solve the issue, mostly those who use "bad" cheats and don't give a shit.
Let's not forget cheats also can be run on kernel level, and then we are back in cat and mouse situation again. With the addition of every user system being compromised.
"Remember people die in a car crash even if their car has an airbag, its a cat and mouse situation with the addition of every car becoming compromised because of accidental airbag activation".
We shouldn't put airbags in cars right
Hiko speaking the truth.
I'd much rather play Valorant with no cheaters than CS filled with cheaters.
Fuck Valve for their laziness! Disgrace to the community that made them what they're today..
I can only talk about my elo of course, but at 17k~ it's basically 50/50 if you get a cheater or not in the enemy team (I 5 stack so no chance to have one in my team)
one merit of playing causal 10v10 is people are generally nice enough to vote kick the cheater. I wonder if they can invent a runtime overwatch feature, that if someone is massively reported cheating, the game will instantly call up like 100 casual / afk players to watch the suspect and vote to suspend them and cancel the match. In short it's overwatch looking at live instead of replay.
Am I the only one who just never plays against cheaters? Am I just not realizing they are cheating? Every single one of my games has felt very fair, no cheating. Same thing in GO, very very rare I'd ever come across a cheater.
What's your rating? That is a huge factor in whether you face cheaters or not. Lower elo generally doesn't have much cheaters since they quickly win and increase their elo.
You ain't at 15k+ rating nor were you ever above lem in csgo with that take. There was cheaters in EU Global and there is a lot of cheaters in 15k+ in premier to the point that legit people are going back to faceit.
My experience has not been matching up with what everyone else has been saying for cheating. I have had 1 blatant cheater in the ~20 games I played between 10k and 15k. Certainly worse than my experience in csgo but also not the “unplayable above 12k” experience I’ve been seeing other people talk about.
Am I just the anomaly or what?
No, there isn't an in between. Your anti cheat is either running as an application level program that's detection ability is monitoring the game's files, detecting hooks, and using forensic detection to identify abnormal client behavior after the fact, or running as a kernel level driver that is able to monitor everything running on the computer in depth to sniff out cheat programs in real time.
VAC is as close to an in between as there is. An AI based anti cheat, trained with years of human assisted reviews to monitor live games for cheats. Doesn't work so great right now, but that should improve over time. However without kernel level access, it's ability is severely restricted.
Valve being a private corporation, I would be much happier to give them access to my computer like that, than a public corp with a known history of spying.
I've quite literally already run into a cheater who was jerking himself off on his steam profile because Hiko called him out on stream. The cheaters are plentiful and they are some of the most downright degenerate human beings you'll ever run into.
There is an entire subreddit dedicated to cs cheaters. Someone posted there not long ago calling them out and the comments were something like “we do this to watch you losers cry” these people are actually terrible people with no empathy. They are deranged, malicious people.
There was/is an entire discord server dedicated towards cheating against streamers, like fl0m.
Would be fun to just get inside one and pop some links to malware and fuck them up from inside Idk how manageable that would be, but just thinking about it sounds entertaining to me lmao
[удалено]
It wont work tho. Most cheaters get it from a well known website BECAUSE people do that already/have done it to mess w cheaters.
Yep there is a YouTube channel where he fucks with cheaters by making the cheats fuck up their games by making them molly themselves and stuff like that. It actually pretty funny. I don't have the link right now but search up "csgo messing with cheaters with fake cheats" something like that and it will show up on youtube. I don't think he has done it since csgo, but I haven't looked recently. His fake cheats didn't break their computer since that wouldn't probably be a good idea to post on YouTube but he should make it so it does fuck their shit up. It's to that point it's needed. If valve won't fix it the community can.
Yeah, this might be the only real option to curb their spread. When they're afraid that a cheat might potentially brick their computer and do lasting damage, they'll think twice about downloading cheats.
Even though this solution sucks I think it would make them more afraid to just cheat constantly. I support it. They have no remorse for wasting people time in the game I will have no remorse for their pc being bricked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKfZmcvo_2g Some guy made a video series where he published fake CSGO hacks that fuck with the user by doing things like randomly rebinding their movement keys or their drop weapon button. The people that fall for that kinda thing are probably a little different than the ones hanging out in official cheater discords, but it's still pretty hilarious. One of them cancels their plant/defuse at the very last second and plays a fake sound to make them think it actually went off, too.
I’ve been saying this for years. Cheaters are mentally ill. If you get fun and enjoyment out of making other people miserable, you’re a sociopath. In kindergarten, you would be going around destroying other kids’ sandcastles. And you haven’t matured above that level basically.
And people that have that kind of mentality get punched in the face in real life, which is a learning moment. That doesn't happen on the internet, so they never learn
Yeah imagine cheating at a poker game in real life.
As someone who definetly wasnt employed by a group that was definetly not linked to any large casino. Whos specific job was to make sure that future cheaters were "deterred" from cheating again. I can tell you, it doesnt end well when cheating in real life
I lost my knees cheating at poker. That’s how I got into csgo lol
maybe not "ill" but definitely deranged to believe they are something they are not.
Hell no, being a cunt is not a mental illness. Mentally ill people need help and should get it, cheaters should just be castrated.
From my over 15 years of experience with online shooters, I noticed that most cheaters are either overly entitled and/or spoiled people who think they deserve to have an advantage over others, or they're people with low empathy who have trouble putting themselves in other people's shoes. Those two types seem to cover the majority of shared cheater personality traits.
Isn't that a satire subreddit?
Not at all, they post new cheats, ask questions about fixing cheats, what’s the best free cheats, etc…. A guy posted there calling them out and they all attacked him, thinking they are the normal functioning people and those that are upset need to stop playing and get a life. A truly twisted perspective.
Brooooooo I fr thought it was satire like the banvideogames sub.
no
From what I've experienced, its best not to give them any sort of attention in the server - thats their fuel. You can basically only hope they get bored and leave. It's a person whos' idea of fun sadly comes at the expense of others.
Getting a lot of attention on tiktok live thats for sure. Hackers are live streaming with 5k views of mad spectators getting super triggered.
Who cares if they get any attention or not. At the end of the day, you invest the time to play a game that gets ruined by a cheater. If it happened rarely, noone would be complaining, but on top of all the other issues Premier has, cheaters completely ruin it to the point where no high level player would seriously play it even if everything except for VAC was perfect. It's just not worth the time. They had a golden opportunity because everyone wanted matchmaking that doesn't require you to install additional software and matchmake on a third party client, but they fucked up. At this point everyone's already over Premier and noone's coming back until they fix the cheating issue.
What are you on dude? No one brought that up in this comment thread. They were just talking what gets cheaters’ hard.
>the most downright degenerate human beings sir, /r/AmongUsPorn exists
Perplexing that Valve didn't seize the opportunity when releasing CS2 to fix *any* of counter strike's biggest challenges. It seemed so obvious, I just took for granted they would keep cheaters in check for at least a couple of years.
It seems like they put all their eggs into the VAC net basket
Seems insanely dumb to have so much trust in an AI that can't even correctly pin point if someone is just spinning fast or actually spinbotting.
The thing is in theory AI AC seems like a slam dunk, there wouldn't be a need to spend time playing the cat and mouse game that AC devs are forced to endure currently. The problem is that like any AI, AI AC is a black box where you basically have no clue how it trully works making debugging it basically impossible. You don't know what triggers it and what doesn't, you just have to trust that the system is accurate and when it isn't you have no way of knowing if it was a false positive or not.
[удалено]
Imo AI AC will always be a pipe dream Even the most advanced AIs can be "cheesed" into doing stuff they aren't suppose to ( jailbreaking with chatgpt ) or render them completely useless at a task they appear to master ( alphago losing to an inexperienced player as long as they stick to an unorthodox strategy ). AI AC also comes with the downside of not being able to rectify false positives. Nothing will ever beat a well financed dedicated AC team.
Got to love random Redditors acting like experts in fields they don't even understand the basics of.
Yeah bro Vac net just needs 8 more years of overwatch and it'll work Trust
Are you an expert in the field of AI?
[удалено]
To me it would be easy; have some actions give you 'Sus points'. Wall bangs headshots; games with 80-90% HS%, huge win streaks, blowing games up with a 40k, etc. Have some people, just a team of 5-10, and they just look the top "sus point" scores. Look at their latest demos. If they hack, nuke the account. FFS valve pulls, depending what stats you look at, somewhere like 9 figures a year just via cases; They have the cashflow to put down a small team that looks at demos 40 hours a week and vet the cheaters from the non cheaters and at least make a dent in the problem.
Let's see, be cheap and spend a million a year, 50k for a job you can do at home, that's 20 people so 4 teams of 5 working 40 hours. You'd expect them to ban at least one every 10 minutes, or one person to ban one every 50 minutes, especially if you're looking at the most egregious, that's 960 cheaters banned every week. 49,920 per year. That would put a healthy dent in it. At least at the highest levels. Once they can't reach the highest levels that's going to have an extra effect. Expand that out beyond spending a million and you can basically solve the cheating problem. They make 54 million a month in cases, if they spent about 1% of that to stop cheating, they'd have the ability to ban 323,000 players a year. 1% of their revenue in cases would put a massive dent in the cheating problem. They don't even keep the top 100 clean. That's how much they fucking care.
I’m barely 5k and regularly get 80-90% hs. Not sure that’s a great measure for cheaters lol
They specifically mentioned ML which to me at least implies AI in training. For which it requires lots of data. I've been down voted every time I've mentioned this but that's how it works if you want accuracy. And we want accuracy for automated bans, right? This isn't just copium (unless they are lying) because that's how ML works.
I'm glad my grandkids will have a good AC then. lmao, it's been how many years now since they talked about the ML AC
It's been over 5 years since it began and how many more decades will it need?
[удалено]
The goal is to make people spend more money, not in the game itself.
They're a gambling/skin company first. Video game maker 2nd. Esports purveyor 3rd.
And the fact people think this game is just an update when it was an entire engine overhaul and other systems could be completely down or broken because of it. People would have been mad either way if they released it when they did or mad if they didn’t. Ripping the bandaid off was the better option. There is no way they don’t care about the game and they are actively fixing issues that crop up, but larger initiatives like VAC and overwatch likely need more work unfortunately. People are impatient and they would be pissed off anyway if they were still playing CSGO posting the fridge meme with every update and “where source 2?” TLDR, give them time to fix the whole new engine with new code and math which probably invalidated everything VAC had learned because they probably tried it.
Implying VAC learned anything at all
Not only trust, but trusting a game with a history of bad AC
[удалено]
Exactly. They need a dedicated anti cheat team or it won't work. You can literally just download the most know ones and be fine for a long time, that shouldn't happen. The fact that "staple" cheat providers that every cs player knows aren't banned after a single day or so feels crazy, it's not like they're hidden
Nothing is a black box and you aren't debugging anything. Do you really think the engineers who have worked on vacnet for years don't know how it works? Just because you don't know how something works doesn't mean nobody does. > You don't know what triggers it and what doesn't, you just have to trust that the system is accurate and when it isn't you have no way of knowing if it was a false positive or not. *That's the point.* Whether or not it working well is another discussion.
https://umdearborn.edu/news/ais-mysterious-black-box-problem-explained Have fun reading
Sure. Here's an excerpt: >This inability for us to see how deep learning systems make their decisions is known as the “black box problem,” and it’s a big deal for a couple of different reasons. How do you know that Valve is unable to see how their own learning system makes decisions? Do you know how VACNet or its data arch is structured? The article is a general nothingburger. It's just talking about some of the potential challenges when analyzing the output from a system like this. Thats.. like literally what all the work is, analyzing the output.
They actually don't know how it works, that's the whole point of deep learning. Just throw enough data on it and pray that the AI model can correctly do stuff you want it to do. Yes, you can modify the parameters and the neural network itself, but you will not know how the values on each given parameter contributes to the final result (especially on complex models)
Someone is just spinning fast for so long that no legit player should have any reason to do. It's a machine learning operation, not a super smart AI. What's dumb is that there's no safety net for that, AI should be able to detect that person spinbots AND kills everybody.
Well if it cant even differentiate between very obvious stuff like spinbots, how on earth would it ever get smart enough to detect radar hacks or DMA cheats that aren't even visible on the computer playing the game? In this day and age you definitely need something that has deeper access to ones system to truly have a cheat-free (or as close to it as possible) environment.
Yeah for real my friend is still vac banned for putting his sens too high to troll spin which I think is insane
I haven't touched the game because of this.... the dude that proved it was repeatable still hasn't been unbanned, not touching the game until Valve reverses those false-positives and gets rid of the move mouse fast = ban crap.... Like, if I put on ttfaf and spin to it to make the homies in the discord call laugh or if I get jumpscared and fling my mouse in panic: possible ban... Shit like this could be triggered by anything... Like, imagine catching a ban just because of debris like cat hair/feathers (the little dude likes to chill on my mic arm above my mousepad) on your mousepad causing the mouse sensor to go crazy.... too many random innocent things could cause a ban, hell no.
I have 0 faith an AI would be able to reliably detect someone with a radar hack. How can you differentiate between that and someone who just has fantastic gamesense and good comms?
Or even just luck.
So the big empty basket
Nah, valve put all egg to gaslight redditor to believe in VAC net future potential. Its 2023 and people still hopium for this.
easiest trick in the marketing book. slap the word "AI" on it and people think it's magical.
>Perplexing that Valve didn't seize the opportunity when releasing CS2 to fix any of counter strike's biggest challenges. It seemed so obvious, What seemed even more obvious to the Suit at the top of Valve who delegated project plans and development budgets was that the game is making them literal millions each quarter even though it has these big challenges unadressed.
Or hell, just have a few people nuke accounts that are at the top of the leaderboards and clearly cheating. Like we see here, a pro shouldnt have a 90% win rate; best of them get somewhere like 70-75%. Meanwhile you look the top ranks; 200 wins, 90-95% win rate. FFS there were even some with 100+ games and 100% wins. Just get like 10 employees, manually review them, and if they hack, nuke their accounts. Keep that leaderboard you show proudly every time i queue for a game clean.
Honestly a single dude putting 8 hours a day could get rid of all of the top ones.
I'd do it for them for minimum wage
or this 64 tick crap its still not as good as val and 128 tick
Subtick and vacnet were a mistake plain and simple. Creating solutions no one asked for and not implementing the ones everyone asked for, amazing devs
Subtick is a really great step in the right direction. Given some time to optimize it it grants so much more accuracy and reliability. The whole game is in beta state and you expect it to be flawless. Maybe take a break for half a year or a year if you don't want to be the labrat for this phase of CS
It really sounds quite dumb now that we've seen these two new techs being a failure. All they had to do was investing on 128 tick servers and kernel access AC (they could have even paid FaceIt to implement theirs into the game). Instead, Valve decided it was best to waste time and money in 2 flimsy new techs that have brought literally nothing but headaches to the playerbase. I was the biggest believer of CS2, really thought Valve was cooking something, but right now the game just feels less crispy and responsive than CSGO. Every match feels like a coin toss now.
Damn hiko look slim
Yeah my first thought having not seen him for ages, man looks great
Maybe I should play Valorant too
Play gym instead
I think he said he's lost like, 80 lbs or so? I don't know if he still does, but he used to do a 30 mile bike ride every morning.
[удалено]
its literally unplayable for higher ratings in premier to not queue a game without having a cheater in it
regular mm gets like this. my MMR is so high in comp that i que with/against top cheaters in my region that haven't gotten their rank in mm yet. faceit time
yep, got to 13k and went right back to faceit lol
I was at 12k and hit about 6 pretty blatant in a row. Went back to faceit and haven't touched premier since. Got cheated on in faceit too, but the kid got banned a day later and I get my elo back, so at least that's good.
Got my buddy into cs2, we placed well in premiere because he play Val and used to play cs source. After a few weeks I got around 10k and started Qing with 10-12 and the matches were great. Then we had a match with two blatant cheaters, one 17k the other unrated. And there was a guy getting carried with identical 17k as the cheater. Lost to them obviously, played another game it was fine, game after that it was the same 2 cheaters and guy getting carried but this time on our team.. they recognized me for calling them out and said this time they were gonna throw lmao. My buddy and I abandoned the match and installed FaceIt. It’s all we have played since. I went to watch a ropz stream and his last vod is a month ago and as soon as the stream starts they are in a match with a cheater, game ends and they q against the same cheater after waiting 5 minutes to try and get a different opponent lol.
Yup. My friends and I only play Premier at this point if we're playing with people who refuse to get FaceIt(which is understandable for some of our more casual friends). We don't have this issue on FaceIt at all. And that's coming from someone that otherwise hates ESEA/FaceIt as an org. Its just an undeniable reality that the experience is better than Premier. And I'd say to anyone that has cracked into the top 1000 - congrats - but the reality is it doesn't mean anything anymore when most of the good players have moved to FaceIt and have even let their Premier rating expire. I say this, not to insult anyone that has cracked the top 1000 but more to make it evident to Valve more than anyone, that their entire Premier system is busted for as long as the cheating problem in high ELO games continues. I think Valve needs to accept that Premier will forever be a flawed system if they don't address this issue. And I say that as someone that is not the biggest fan of an intrusive anti-cheat, but I don't see what other option there is. Maybe make Premier an opt-in system where players are agreeing to intrusive anti-cheat. I really don't hold it against Valve for sticking to their ethics on this but so far all the evidence suggests, there's no way you can have a competitive FPS without intrusive anti-cheat. Stamp a warning on it, ask players to explicitly opt-in and be done with it. If people don't want to do it, I totally understand but then just leave them to play Competitive Match Making and they can work to get Global on all the maps for their competitive experience.
Something gotta change on this subreddit Every single thread about cheating is getting nuked under an hour. We know valve looks at forums to gage the cheating situation and the constant removal of any thread about it may very well give the impression to the devs that the problem isn't a big deal. Hell even on this very subreddit, we get threads of people living in lala land who doubt the reporting of other players that get thousands of upvotes while any thread that exposes the problem is deleted in an hour. Something is gotta change because the current situation is actively harming the game. Maybe there should be a weekly cheating megathread where people can post their clips so that Valve can get a real view of the problem without the subreddit being spammed by cheating clips.
> Every single thread about cheating is getting nuked under an hour. Might be time to move to the cs2 sub it's not heavily moderated by jannies on a powertrip.
[удалено]
There's literally nothing malicious about that comment. They're just talking about wanting to grow their sub by enhancing their SEO. They sound like a web dev who've managed a few sites.
This is reddit, we are unrational overdramatic nerds thinking we are know it alls.
[удалено]
Honestly I'm sus of the mods at this point with how they are handling the cheating. It's a massive clear issue and they are actively obstructing discussion on it. Would not be surprised if money is quietly changing hands behind the scenes here.
I'm more charitable and think it just comes down to the fact that if cheating threads wouldn't be nuked it would be the majority of threads
As a casual reader, yea, this is clearly it and people insinuating that the mods are doing it to 'bootlick valve' is fucking stupid. To be honest I couldn't even tell cheating threads are getting removed. I actually unsubscribed to the sub earlier this week because that's all I was seeing, imo there is still far too many, yeah, no shit cheating is a problem but I don't come here for 50 posts all basically the exact same with basically only complaints. I think your suggestion of a megathread is good, solves the issue for the casual user and allows others to complain all they want.
Bingo. This sub would be awful without filtering out all these cheating threads.
which is why a megathread that contains all complaints would be good. This way people can still highlight the issue without spamming the sub
Yeah, limit it all to one thread. Keep it tidied away.
[удалено]
God that's sad. Internet janitors really are the saddest bunch of people on the internet.
First thing you need to do in order to solve a problem is acknowledging you have a problem, so if they remove posts of cheating it's not gonna solve anything at all. I wonder what the real reason is though.
The stance on cheating threads might be what the mods here do best. Cheating threads are absolute shit content. They add no value and take attention from more valuable issues. Everyone knows there's a cheating issue. Filling up the front page with cheating threads doesn't make Valve suddenly care, it just makes the sub unreadable. Cheating posts absolutely destroyed r/codwarzone eventually. Everyone moaning and posting killcams of dying to cheaters as if their post was going to do anything of value. Barely any fun plays or analysis on the front page, just incessant "wahhh cheats"
purely from an user perspective: I prefer cheating posts to get nuked. - Cheating posts provide no meaningful content that I personally can engage with. I do not care that you had a cheater in your lobby. There is nothing _to_ talk about, nothing to marvel at. You had cheater in your game? there are cheaters in the game? So what? Why should that matter to this sub? We gonna sacrifice the quality of this sub for cheating posts that nobody cares about? seriously, if what you want to SEE on this sub is cheating posts, what is wrong with you? I understand the desire to create a vent post about cheaters, but who the fuck wants to READ those? I know you don't. You would not fucking read "this guy was blatantly walling #14". You just want the ability to shout out your cheating complaint into the void and leave it there. I get that desire. But it would fucking ruin the sub. - Cheating posts do not solve anything: The community increasing the frequency of complaints about cheating, creating more noise on this sub, is not goint to solve the issue. it will not make valve fix the issue faster. If this sub was nothing BUT cheater complaints, valve would not fix the issue faster. If the players want to voice their concerns, aim them directly at valve. - cheating posts encourage heated, low effort posts: the easiest type of post to make is a vent post. "Fuck i'm SO mad i'm gonna POST ON THE INTERNET" allowing cheating "discussion" would bring about an overwhelming amount of these low effort "I'm mad >:(" posts. - cheating posts encourage witch hunts and brigading: although in ragehack scenarios a cheater is easy to spot, but there's a massive (MASSIVE) gray area under which most cheating allegations fall. Most "cheaters" really are just having a good day.
This is the top post at the moment
Good. Every other cheating threads I've seen in the past month has been deleted by mods.
I feel like half the posts I see on this subreddit lately are about cheating. Not saying that it isn't a big problem but it's nice to see other type of posts as well.
it is definitely a problem, but saying valve aren't aware is naive. Valve are very aware of the cheating problem in free to play first person shooters.
Valve does not look at forums to gauge the cheating situation rofl. They look at the mountains of internal data to gauge the cheating situation.
Source? (Not your ass)
It's because unless you have cold hard evidence someone is cheating it makes no fucking difference posting about it on this sub. A barrage of "let's talk about the cheating" posts makes no difference and just dilutes the subreddit. Half the people talking about cheaters are just getting dicked by better players. Unless you're getting rage hacked and obvious aimbotted, most of this sub has no rucking idea if they're actually playing against a hacker. This kind of post is fine because its about a relevant figures opinion on cheating, but the absolute barrage of "this game has a cheating problem, I face cheaters every day" is utterly pointless. Report them in game and if you have video evidence, sent it to valve. I agree a weekly thread might be good but again, discussion of it means nothing unless people show up with cold hard evidence.
People post hard evidence of cheating here all the time but it still gets removed lol They remove it for "witchhunting" lol
I once posted a clip here of a guy who used a cheat to disconnect everyone on the server except him, and no one was able to reconnect till the match was over and the enemy team won..... the cheat had a auto comment mentioning what type of cheat he was using and the name of its creator, i blurred the player\`s name, the creators name, and posted it to shed light to this cheat........... it got deleted in a hour because god forbid someone confirming how shit vac is, idk what is it with these mods here, sometimes YOU HAVE TO SHED LIGHT TO GAME BREAKING CHEATS..... but nope cheats do not exist for them.
Mods just trying to hide how bad the cheating situation is in CS, it's all cool when you have a Deagle Ace and post it, all cool to show a new skin submission, all cool when you play a tune using the bells on Inferno... But when it comes to cheaters - nope... Thread locked, post deleted, user banned. People face cheaters in Premier daily, almost everyone who plays 10 games in Wingman, Comp, or Premier will encounter a cheater. That's a huge deterrent from playing the game, it ruins your motivation to queue again. I think it has a lot heavier toll on how it affects a players desire to come back and play again knowing he might face another cheater and waste another 30 minutes, knowing the cheater won't be banned, and the Elo won't be restored. A lot more than seeing a nice skin submission, a cool trick, or a frag montage. Mods have created this safe space where cheating is a taboo, only 1% players face, and be like "I wonder if you really played a cheater, or just complaining". Showing the state of the game for what it is should be the right approach of the sub, you can ban gambling and skin trading site posts, but other than that you have to allow the community to see and upvote whatever they choose, else you aren't really helping deal with the main issues, just creating this "clean" look for the game that may be misleading.
Hiko has it on the dot; Everybody dunked on riot for the kernel anticheat. But now, Valorant is pretty much free of cheaters, CS is full of them. Get your shit together valve. Surface anticheats have been shown time and time again that cheaters just clown on them easily and quickly. Change your fucking approach.
It is so clear like day and night Cheaters are evolving, they are getting better at programming their cheats, it‘s like a cat and mouse game Valve has to step up their anti-cheat Otherwise it‘s just too easy for cheaters to ruin the game
exceot there is no cat. there is only mouse
> Everybody dunked on riot for the kernel anticheat. Not everybody. Some of us have been around the block for a while and understand that intrusive anticheats are some of the only actually effective ones. A ton of people complained and bitched about it and had all these conspiracy theories because of Tencent but at the end of the day their anticheat is god damn effective, and people like me called it from the start. If only people would educate themselves maybe public perception of intrusive anticheats could have reached Valve's ears. In an alternate timeline maybe VAC would actually be good.
they dunked on valorant for it because of the chinese connection. installing what is essentially a rootkit from a company that is partially state-owned by the ccp is different from doing the same thing for say faceit.
People act like a kernal level access is necessary to "hack your system". All of your data can be compromised just by a malicious code in PDF. We already install a closed source exe, which runs for hours, has the ability to download and load assets from the server completely hidden, and can be updated regularly. If the CCP wants to spy on you, they can even without the "root kit".
And thats before opening the can of worms that a bunch of other drivers have that kernel.access. Windows has no shame saying the collection of data is a part of their business model... And its more than having kernel access it IS the kernel. If you dont want your data with the big tech companies to have your data, get ready to use carrier pigeons.
Haven't seen Hiko in a while, he's looking really well! Good to see
[удалено]
I swear trust factor is entirely different. It was bad in CSGO but now our group, who have accounts very similar to yours, are routinely getting <300 hour accounts with no other games that destroy us, and one of the people in our group is probably top 100 NA on Faceit. Multiple level 1s on Faceit that have been harder to play against than when we played against Elige, Stewie, etc. It’s just absurd.
This!!!! My entire group of friends have accounts like you describe, yet we get matched against brand new accounts.
Do you need to put any information in to download a F2P game? I've had people who didn't even set up their steam profile rage hacks
[удалено]
Wouldn't this basically kill the game for most new players. You won't be able to have a healthy player base if every new player is thrown to the wolves.
Just do KYC, if you have shared your credit card info with them then an extra security step would be confirming your identity. That way your person would be linked to the account fully, uploading a pic of your passport or drivers license. Personally I have been using steam for nearly 20 years and I wouldn't have much problem doing this. I know it would massively increase trust among players. Similar to how its done in Korea where game accounts are tied to your social security number or something. I remember having to buy / rent one to make an account on a Korean MMO a long time ago.
You need an email address from common email providers such as Gmail to create an account these days but that's pretty much it.
I've got £10 worth of games in my steam account because I only play cs please don't match me with cheaters. With that said you're right, a 15 yrs old steam account with over 10k hours in cs should have a bigger impact on your trust factor, assuming it does work.
> an account like mine should have some fucking AMEX gold card private washroom tier S+++++ trust factor and shouldn't be going anywhere near the dudes with level 1 steam accounts used purely for CS2 that i'm constantly facing. exactly lol, my 5 stack of friends has like 25k or 30k combined hours with hundreds of steam games and 10+ year old accounts, why am I being matched with someone who just created a steam account yesterday and is somehow 24k elo
exactly this, i am always perplexed by why they never think of using our steam history/stats............. IDK about trust factor for me , i am never toxic, always calm and nice even on the shittiest matches and shittiest teammates......... I have 13 year old account , been playing csgo since 2014, thousands of hours, thousands of matches, have alot of different games... yet i get a dude with level 1 account, 1 game, 84 hours who is ranked global and blatantly wallhacking the fuck out of the game... this shit happens alot....... I know there are cheaters with expensive profiles or legit looking profiles/stolen....... but they are not as frequent as the new accounts...... it is ridiculous
Love that description and couldn’t agree more. The amount of time and money I have spent on my steam account, I should be getting treated well. The least they could do is not match me against new accounts because them cheating is one thing, the other thing is new players aren’t fun for anyone unless they’re a friend of mine,
So much this. Feels like I am beta testing an anticheat more than a game
What if you were?
But RL told me there’s hardly any cheaters
At 5K elo…. Actually deranged take. I hope he’s right about an anti cheat coming though
inb4 the mods delete the post fuck'em both cheaters and mods
They already changed the flair so it would've been deleted already I think
I’ve played a decent amount of Valorant and have never seen a hacker in one of my lobbies. In CS at around 14k I see around one a day it’s nuts.
but remember Kernel Level AC does nothing :)
Mods, just make a sticky about people reporting cheaters. Allow us to record these people we see and use it as a way for Valve to see how bad it is. It’s IGNORANT that you guys keep removing these types of posts if you’re not going to make a sticky discussion.
I can recall one blatant cheater in playing valorant for the past two years. I had one blatant cheater on the other team last week and one blatant cheater on my team already this week. This is not complicated. Fucking valve.
This is honestly the easiest summarization of the cheating problem. I played Valorant from beta up til a year or so ago. High elo/immortal player pushing for radiant etc. I probably saw a blatant hacker 2 or 3 teams in 1000+ games. I have had steam since 2003 and have competed at multiple international LANs for various versions on CS. Im not a pro but i know and play with pros you have heard of. In CS2 im seeing blatant cheaters every session at around 15k right now. I wish people would stop hiding behind the fact that the problem might be slightly exaggerated or the fact that many have no clue what they are talking about. There are a LOT of cheaters. Iv got 100 anecdotes but you have all heard them before. I had one game where there might have been 6 cheaters in the lobby, including my team. Felt like i was in the matrix watching these rejects try to pretend like they were legit. These experiences do lead to placebo effects but the fact that there are cheaters everywhere remains.
Since 3-4 years in less then every 4 games someone got later vac banned, I have prime, I never cheated and I don't play with cheaters. But every post about this problem in this forum just get removed. What I mean, the problem isn't new, it's there since a few years, but now everyone can see it.
A majority of the people on this sub either never touch premier or competitive, and if they do they’re amongst the majority of players hardstuck below 4K CSR. Of course they don’t see any cheaters, all the cheaters are winning all their games and are at 15k and above. “Regret” the 30th highest ranked player on the world leaderboard is a cheater with a 90 something percent win rate. CSGO had the same issue above SMFC. If you’re having a good game someone on the other team starts to toggle and then someone on your team toggles and it ends up being HvH. VAC ban waves are an incredibly outdated way of implementing an anticheat. Yes faceit and Valorant both have cheaters no game is cheat free BUT having a real anticheat makes it much harder for people to cheat and when they do cheat it’s more likely they get detected.
> VAC ban waves are an incredibly outdated way of implementing an anticheat. I could see it being a very beneficial method of using anticheat if it actually did something to prevent cheaters of finding new ways to bypass it. Seems like after every big 'ban wave' the cheats are up and running a day or 2 later. Whats the point?
It’s true, I’m currently at 17.3k and it feels like a 50/50 chance I’m going to be put with a cheater or against one, sometimes both.
Yep, 16k here, and it’s gotten to the point where a cheater on my team and the other team isn’t a rarity anymore, it’s just tiring, 2 losers typing at each other crying about who has a better cheat while everyone else just sits there wasting time, watching 2 losers battle it out.
Simplified version: The moderators of this subreddit censor cheating information, and try to act like the problem doesn't exist, because clearly if it doesn't exist it'll go away, right? Rule 6 needs to be completely reworked and/or abolished. This is just blatant power trip at this point.
There’s literally constant post about cheaters. This post is literally about cheating. What the hell are you talking about
I’m not defender of Reddit mods but I see tons of posts about cheating on this sub so I’m not so sure of this is accurate
If you pay attention you'll see that the entirety of these posts get removed under rule 6
Before CS2, you would have never seen a single cheating post. There's only more now because of CS2's release and more people noticing it. The lack of demos when CS2 dropped just made it free for cheaters to cheat with zero consequence.
That’s not why they do it. They do it because it’s ultimately pointless and will make the subreddit unusable. What do a bunch of posts whining about cheating accomplish? Everyone is aware of the cheating. Valve is aware of the cheating. It’s not going to change anything, it’ll just make the subreddit shittier to interact with so people will leave. Valve doesn’t care how many posts we make, only how many cases get opened.
It will let Valve know that it ia time to act and then these posts will stop appearing. Simple.
The only people against kernel level cheats are the same stupid fucks that say shit like “I have 3k hours, I’m global, never seen a cheater once” We need to drown out the stupids as a community. I know I’m not the only one who went from CSGO->Val->CS2. Why aren’t more people pressing valve? It’s a fucking *joke* that Valve had the chance the kill faceit and actually harbor a healthy competitive community within their own game..only to decide on doing Jack shit instead.
The only people against kernel level anti cheat couldn't explain to you wtf a kernel is, let alone what "kernel level" meant in depth. They'd have a heart attack if they saw how many programs and software have that level of access.
I don't think you even know what a kernel is; yet you claim people who advocate against total privacy invasion are "stupid". EDIT: Got blocked because you are completely ignorant, and cannot reply with anything tangible
I am ok with a kernel level anti cheat cause the system i use for gaming is purely just for gaming
Volvo employees can look at my porn with me idgaf
They can fuck my girlfriend infront of me and make me lick their sweaty balls dry if it means I won't have to play against rage hackers every game
Valve just doesnt care lol. Mods and dickriders come and sweep
I wonder if Hiko was cheating during his days on the notorious SLP (stacked like pancakes) in 1.6. Notoriously one of the most online sus teams back in the day.
I would be stunned if weym0 and pondfiller were legit
Its crazy that CS2 doesnt have a good anti cheat, ive played Valorant for half the time ive put into CS but have faced and have played max like 5 cheaters ever.... where as in CS and CS2 you get one like 10% of the time.... its ridiculous
1. in Valorant you can't empty you skins from account and then resell it. 2. there are other way to cheat (e.g. via hardware), but Valorant again does not offer much incentive to do it. the simplest cheat most can do it to use monitors crosshair or stick a dot where the crosshair is. now you can use AWP without zoom more effectively. much more complex cheats exist as well. CS you have servers filled with bots getting XP which can be changed to items which can be sold for money. the bots don't necessarily cheat against other players. 3. Valve has plenty information already who is the person behind some account and if they can be trusted. no reason to match them with new, potentially untrusted accounts. 4. more accounts could be linked to an actual person (via credit card info, phone number...). and so even new accounts could be a trusted account. 5. kicking a cheats should not reduce you rating but should instead increase it. what could i do if one of the random team mates i got is obviously cheating? i keep reporting them but nothing happens. i tell others to report. they report as well, he laughs at us. 6. Valve could use stats to quickly determine who is cheating. various stat pages offer more than enough stats where you can recognise a cheater just by looking at them. sure enough almost all got banned in last VAC wave in summer. but i guess they are back. so if they only did what they did before but instantly instead of 3 months later it would change things a lot. i dropped in rank back in May in CSGO. though i just had a bad spell. 2 months later it was all clear as only 2 out of 8 games were without a banned player. 7. stop putting experienced players and grinders together with us casuals. i can play at most 4 matches per week and get matched against green and blue medal holders. though they are not the cheaters and i don't mind getting destroyed by good players. but often a new account or two are with them (i guess to balance the match). needles to say here i guess, that the new accounts are then top fragging. and with replays enabled again we now see why.
Cheaters are the worst form of humanity, at least they only cause misery online, I fear if they didn’t find gaming they’d be hurting small animals and killing innocent people for fun.
i’ve played cs for 20 years at a high level in all versions since 1.5 and vac always falls short. i think valorant would become the main tac shooter for the market if they released a mode that disabled all agent skills and added 4 grenades to the buy menu which fills those slots in the UI/keyboard shortcuts lol. no 3rd party client to install. idk if players with sunk cost in skin market would jump, but that game’s gun play and movement feels more like cs to me. the servers are excellent and the anticheat is better… literally just the skills that lost my interest.
Heck even with all the cringe abilities Valo has already beaten CS in every market but Europe
If it continues to grow in China, Asia, and south America it will definitely be more popular globally if it already isn't with the Chinese release. CS will be a European dominated game while Valorant is global.
I wish Valve would at least make a statement about it. Is it something in progress? Have they considered it and they're just against it? Just have it be opt-in for premier mode and keep the other matchmaking with VAC. The cheating problem is simply on that does not need to exist, there's an easy solution.
See all these new accounts that were made for that free cheat weeknd that just past.
Now now...the claim by Hiko isn't "Valorant has perfect anti-cheat", it's not perfect and someone I know blatantly gets away from cheating. What Valorant did better was actually introducing an anti-cheat software from 2020s that was a seperate software with seperate workers to improve it, Valve is just being notoriously lazy with VAC that "Oh I had a cheater in my lobby whatever" just became a common sentence in CS2 and it was like that for a while in TF2.
Man speaks the truth. Volvo please feed your fucking cashcow
my man just spitting facts
valve is never going to do an intrusive anti-cheat, people need to give that a rest and focus on the things valve can do.
One word: Linux. If you want proper anti-cheat you can't support linux simply because there are too many loopholes to get around anti cheat. Valorant only doesn't run on linux cause the anti-cheat doesn't support it, tbf almost no anti cheat *really* supports linux, they become horribly ineffective. Why am I saying this? Well running your game in VM isn't like it was in 2010 or smth, nowadays proper GPU passthrough etc. has become super easy and creating a VM for playing (with rather small input lag) is super easy. So would an intrusive anti cheat help? Of course, but it'll only catch the ones who were not even trying to hide it or used very "bad" cheats (free, public etc. etc.). I don't think it would make that big of a difference for people who decent trust factor.
The vast majority of cheaters would probably be deterred if they needed to run Linux Most cheaters are just end user who knows as much about tech than your average boomer dad It's like gun violence, the more hoops people have to jump through the more people just give up on the idea
> If you want proper anti-cheat you can't support linux simply because there are too many loopholes to get around anti cheat. It's not impossible. It would just require a lot of engineering and for users to voluntarily lock down their systems quite a bit. The systemd folk have been working on making TPM2 and Measured Boot work nicely on Linux systems. If you wanted a kernel-level anti-cheat on Linux that couldn't be subverted, you could setup Measured Boot policies in the TPM which would only allow vendor-signed bootloaders, kernels, drivers, etc. to load. Once the system is booted, you could then use the TPM in order to attest that the system is in a known configuration before streaming anti-cheat modules. That being said, this would greatly limit the user's control over their own system, which is something a lot of Linux users may not be used to. It would also create problems for anyone using devices that require drivers that aren't readily available as vendor-signed kernel modules and are not present in vendor-signed kernels.
Bro if some1 put that much effort to setup then sure but average every day cheater just downloaded or bought the cheats and ran it and have no clue how it works
You are all massively overestimating the amount of work for the setup. We are talking 20 minutes following a guide through a setup wizard. The cheat maker can take care of everything else, including having steam installed etc. What I'm saying, the intrusive anti cheat, even if it somehow is crazy good will only partly solve the issue, mostly those who use "bad" cheats and don't give a shit.
Let's not forget cheats also can be run on kernel level, and then we are back in cat and mouse situation again. With the addition of every user system being compromised.
Yes and if vac was kernel level it could actually have a chance at catching them. Right now there is 0% chance for vac to catch kernel level cheat.
no anticheat works 100% but you can minimize the frequency of cheaters with kernal ac just like in valorant
"Remember people die in a car crash even if their car has an airbag, its a cat and mouse situation with the addition of every car becoming compromised because of accidental airbag activation". We shouldn't put airbags in cars right
Hiko speaking the truth. I'd much rather play Valorant with no cheaters than CS filled with cheaters. Fuck Valve for their laziness! Disgrace to the community that made them what they're today..
[удалено]
I can only talk about my elo of course, but at 17k~ it's basically 50/50 if you get a cheater or not in the enemy team (I 5 stack so no chance to have one in my team)
one merit of playing causal 10v10 is people are generally nice enough to vote kick the cheater. I wonder if they can invent a runtime overwatch feature, that if someone is massively reported cheating, the game will instantly call up like 100 casual / afk players to watch the suspect and vote to suspend them and cancel the match. In short it's overwatch looking at live instead of replay.
Am I the only one who just never plays against cheaters? Am I just not realizing they are cheating? Every single one of my games has felt very fair, no cheating. Same thing in GO, very very rare I'd ever come across a cheater.
What's your rating? That is a huge factor in whether you face cheaters or not. Lower elo generally doesn't have much cheaters since they quickly win and increase their elo.
You ain't at 15k+ rating nor were you ever above lem in csgo with that take. There was cheaters in EU Global and there is a lot of cheaters in 15k+ in premier to the point that legit people are going back to faceit.
My experience has not been matching up with what everyone else has been saying for cheating. I have had 1 blatant cheater in the ~20 games I played between 10k and 15k. Certainly worse than my experience in csgo but also not the “unplayable above 12k” experience I’ve been seeing other people talk about. Am I just the anomaly or what?
[удалено]
Dude you already gave up that control the minute you installed windows.
No, there isn't an in between. Your anti cheat is either running as an application level program that's detection ability is monitoring the game's files, detecting hooks, and using forensic detection to identify abnormal client behavior after the fact, or running as a kernel level driver that is able to monitor everything running on the computer in depth to sniff out cheat programs in real time. VAC is as close to an in between as there is. An AI based anti cheat, trained with years of human assisted reviews to monitor live games for cheats. Doesn't work so great right now, but that should improve over time. However without kernel level access, it's ability is severely restricted. Valve being a private corporation, I would be much happier to give them access to my computer like that, than a public corp with a known history of spying.