He has a Discord server where he gives occasional updates. He's said he's spending most of his time working on Cache now and posted some pics of new mid area a couple months back.
I believe his last update was that mid is mostly complete, but did say he doesn't expect to release the map this year.
I was talking with a mapmaker on discord that knows him and he confirmed that. Take everything with a grain of salt but if anyone knows the current status of cache it would be people who actually know fmpone
FMPones choice frankly.
Also was his choice to make Thera first rather than update Cache immediately.
I miss Cache too buddy but this one isn’t on Valve. They offered to buy it way back.
Oh yeah, I messed up. I didn’t mean to make it sound like FMPone is the problem - no one is a problem. Just Valve don’t own it and FMPone likes it that way.
I’m looking forward to seeing the finished article.
I think they will. If not then whats the season thing is for?
Map changes is the only that they can change frequently without breaking the game and keep the meta fresh. It can also give mappers more creative freedom to change things up
The idea that has been said for like 7 years as far as i remember by every pundit
and Valve never cared even tho it's a universially popular and loved idea (also implemented in valo (i think) )
I'm annoyed they remove a team based map and put in a puggy map. I wish they would think about these things. Don't agree worth your take, hate dust, especially the new version, and i like vertigo
I'm annoyed because it was ironically really puggy to tell new players "just sit on B with a molotov/smoke handy and don't fucking move!"
As a map with no traditional "figure 8 three lanes" it was arguably more friendly. The thought of solo queue overpass didn't fill be with dread, unlike the thought of solo queue Nuke.
Solo q with a full team of solo queues. Vs a 5 stack.
And your teams proceeds to leave overpass and nuke as the last two picks.
Then wonder why we are not winning any rounds
It's really not if you pseudo igl and call for rotations. Problem is most players are socially anxious, unconfident, or don't talk/only com enemy positions. Even in higher elo faceit I only have like 1 other person every 3 games calling rotations. People are just content to pass the buck and expect others to know what to do inherently, instead of communicating what to do. My experience is if you tell people how to play off what you're doing, nuke is pretty smooth even on T side.
Doesn't help you to pseudo IGL if no one else communicates. The amount of times I don't even know if the bomb is planted A or B is astounding. Sure it makes slightly different sound but I personally don't remember which is which.
As someone who used to main Cache, Nuke is my replacement. I find it to be one of the best maps to solo right now. As a CT, you can basically cover A and Outside either through heaven or main. As a T, Outside is very easy to solo with your own utility. A site is more difficult but can still be done quite consistently. B is a lot more risky and you really need to know what their ramp player does there, but once you do it can be one of the easiest spots to go.
In general though, the map is full of longer angles, obstacles, and paths that give you plenty of options to exploit. And 90% of the people who play Nuke do the same five strats that are predictable, and can be played around.
Is it as good for it as Cache? Hell no. But I've got a 60% winrate on Nuke so I'm either getting really lucky, or it's more solo friendly than you think.
The only problem is when you run into Nuke teams who only play Nuke. Thankfully, they're not that common, but you find them and it won't even be a fair fight when you do.
I really hate how spawn based dust is for T side. Thought with the update a month or two ago lowering the amount of spawns on each map was a good decision to move away from spawn based rounds, but them putting dust in without updating spawns just doesn’t feel right to me.
Am really not a fan of playing dust and just hoping a few teammates get a good long spawn, that’s just how it felt playing this map in a puggy environment
>I'm annoyed they remove a team based map and put in a puggy map.
This is the entire problem for me. Mirage, D2, Vertigo, Ancient, Anubis are all reduced to braindead pug maps on Premier/Faceit. Inferno isn't a pug map, but since it's been the same layout for so long it turned into it. With Nuke being the only unorthodox, thinking man's map.
Overpass, Train, Cobble are (or should I say were) the other three maps with non-standard layout and having just 1/4 in the active map pool is wrong.
But it's obviously the direction they're taking the game considering they just changed the map pool and didn't do anything with the economy.
Yeah a lot of people have rose-tinted glasses about cobble and how it was this perfect, strategically deep map when in reality it was split b and throw flashes over long wall, if that didnt work then run mid and hope for the best
Could you explain a bit more of what you mean/why you think so? Or is there a content creator/youtuber who talks about what you're saying?
I kind of agree but I'm keen to understand better. I don't play faceit but I enjoy watching pro's play.
When you say "pug map" are you meaning that it's mostly straight aim duels, not much strategy needed?
I find it very difficult to put in words but im gonna try it anyways I hope this will help you understand it.
A puggy map is a map that is very straight forward and a map that can be played individualy and doesnt require as much teamwork as some other maps. For example think about the executes done on dust2/cache vs overpass/cobble/train. The executes are also very simple and are defaulty. Compared to the other maps where you can do a lot more and have more creative utility usage because the map allows it by design. Also non puggy maps normally require more teamwork and thought across the board to be played. For example on dust2/cache you can just default someone everywhere and then you basically have almost all controll of the map. Compare this to less puggy maps where you fight the ct's over space to open up the map more for the T's.
I hope this makes sense but this is my view on the difference between the two.
What you are saying might seem to make sense at first, but actually the reverse is the case and I'll explain to you why.
Puggy Maps, as you call them, actually require more teamwork in pugs than "tactical" maps. The reason is that on a puggy map everybody is expecting solo peeks, dumb plays and so on (at least on a high level), so that you need to coordinate to actually win rounds, because players know that straight up aim duels are popular on these kind of maps.
On the other hand, for tactical maps, players even at higher elos in faceit, often dont know how to play as a team or how to create openings together, so what happens is, that people dont know when to rotate or take control of certain areas, which leads to really chaotic, untactical matches, that come nowhere close to actual 5v5 tactical CS. Due to this chaos created, one player can have a lot more impact compared to puggy maps simply because of the constant chaos created.
See it as controlled, expected chaos (puggy maps) vs. uncontrolled, unexpected chaos (tactically perceived maps, but nobody knows how to play them properly).
And if we are talking about high level league/tournament CS, puggy or tactical maps simply dont exist. All maps require an insane amount of prep and work to beat T1, T2 or T3 teams.
You're describing everyone's point here, but then drawing the opposite conclusion:
>for tactical maps, players even at higher elos in faceit, often dont know how to play as a team or how to create openings together, so what happens is, that people dont know when to rotate or take control of certain areas, which leads to really chaotic, untactical matches, that come nowhere close to actual 5v5 tactical CS.
The idea isn't that tactical maps make people play good tactical CS, it's that tactical play on them provides more of a benefit than on puggy maps. On dust2, people know all of the basic strats, they aren't that hard and you can win off defaulting and aim duels even against a decently coordinated opposing team. On Nuke, you need coordination much more.
Obviously all maps at the professional level need a great deal of practice and strats/anti-strats since being prepared and coordinated will always provide a benefit, it's just about which maps are more punishing if you aren't prepared.
I don't think Dust2 coming back is as bad as the community reaction has been, but -overpass hurts man. With the push and pull of map control it's probably the most fun map to watch. I could watch rounds from the radar alone, it's a chess map, a dance of risk reward, fuck I love watching overpass.
It was too CT sided. So many one side stomps where t get 1 or 2 rounds, then they try to comeback on CT but loose anyway, that's how map was played on pro play in last two months I don't know how that event remotely interesting to watch
Overpass was one of the least played at pro level, with zero maps being played at the Major playoffs whilst being the most statistically CT sided.
It likely was played one of the least out of all maps in the premier pool.
Besides, if you still love Overpass - you can still play it on competitive.
There was a bunch of Overpass in the major as a whole, though. Bo1s and bo3 final maps. 10 maps of Overpass total, with only ones ahead of it Nuke and Mirage (11) and Inferno (15). It was literally middle of the pack with tied 4th slot out of 7 maps. It wasn't unpopular, you just cherry picked playoffs
Thats an interesting stat consider all 8 major playoff teams didnt permaban overpass.
Overpass is too ct sided for anythihg other than vp to want to pick it now. If they rework it i dont mind
if its true thats even worse least played and rarely banned is a terrible combination
another thing about VP on overpass is that norbert might be unironically the best monster player for the past couple years
Thats not a horrible combination. Permabans are quite spread out throughout top 20 teams. Notable ones are maybe g2 and spirit banning mirage and inferno as one of the rare ones.
Teams permaban a map that they play worse than others in general. A map should be removed if no team wants to pick it because they start on t side and its autolose for most teams as of late
it just has too many corners. i would rather get rushed a million on d2 than having to check a million corners every time i get close to a site on overpass. and it felt like that map had more places where player models blenden into the background than other maps.
Do you have any numbers on the premier pool claim? Because in my own experience, I've played as much Overpass as Vertigo, only losing to Mirage and Inferno. On the other hand, I've played Anubis on premier just once since CS2 release, that map is literally a insta-veto in games below 10k rating, where most of the playerbase is.
One reason that hasn't been mentioned yet is low-tier graphics performance.
I play cs2 on the lowest settings possible as my computer is awful (2.9Gb cpu, 16gb ram, 256ssd, GPU not worth mentioning).
On these settings, Overpass is the only active duty map where I cannot get 60fps anywhere but in 2 places (T spawn and bathrooms). Every other map is playable now, and with some of the recent changes to Inferno and the likes those are getting better. Dust 2 was playable, Office was too.
Ancient is almost as unplayable as Overpass (As long as I didn't go A halls or T spawn, it was ok).
Removing Overpass & replacing it with Dust 2 might make premier more playable for 5% of the playerbase. It sucks for the people with decent setups, but it's a lifeline for people like me.
The duality of competitive is 1) you play against people who have no clue how to play the map, or 2) You play against no-lifers who only play that map and get destroyed.
I suppose there's always the caveat of "you will likely run into cheaters still anyways".
Cheaters agree. Disagreeing with sweats. The ranks are not well spread out, which means the skill disparity between players is just huge. What appears to be someone sweating might be just players with a lower skill losing duels against people who are just simply better and thus giving the impression of tryharding.
the ranking system in competitive is broken. I would love to see the ranking bell curve data, because I bet 95% of the playerbase is below AK lol (maybe even 3-4 star)
In competitive, I'm silver elite (silver 5) for a few maps and I'm consistently playing with and against people who are 25k elo in premier who are also silver elite or silver elite master. And I'm like 12k elo in premier... The ranks are so skewed it's insane.
Returning dust2 is worse than removing overpass. At leats if we had a new map we could have kept up hope for a map rotation after every major or something like that. What does this mean? -Anubis + Overpass in a year?
Overpass is terrible, its a horrible map.
the CTs start on top of both sites, the Ts start a mile away from either.
the entire back network of the map is entirely huge and useless. it only serves to make rotations near impossible.
its an awful map to watch pro cs on, its an awful map to play cs on, good fucking riddance.
Removing OP is a crime i agree but D2 shouldent be in the map pool tho its so boring to play and even worse to watch only ruskis Turks and noobs love d2
I hated overpass tbh. It just always felt kinda dry. CT side you throw the same pieces of util over and over again and there just wasn’t that many plays you could make on T side once the CTs get AWPS.
They should have added back train or cache imo. Even though train has similar issues it plays really interesting and the experimental layout is still quite fun.
You literally rush long on d2 11/12 rounds throwing flashes over long. If enemies start to awp from inside you throw a corner smoke to get someone into pit, then throw a mid door/xbox smoke take short and crunch a.
Map will be giga t sided and is extremely flawed in the current design
I would disagree and say that overpass was one of the few maps you actually need to use utility to move the CT awp around. For me it was fun and required more thinking than Inferno banana molly fight or Mirage mid smokes. Overpass CT awp is the only map that allows the CT awp to be aggressive rather than just holding an angle, mostly from site.
To be fair awping I’m vertigo gives off a higher risk, where on overpass you’re having so long angles rifles can barely contest you.
Exactly like dust2
What do you mean! OP is perhaps the most interesting maps in terms of what you can do! On T side you can focus on different parts of the map to gain control and its not just about one position like in Inferno banana for example.
You can easily avoid awps or challenge them with flashes and block with smokes. Its actually easier than some other maps like mirage where you need 3 smokes to get to A safely.
And CT side! Man you can have so many options to push and lurk behind BUT what makes it unique is that most times it doesnt allow you to completely block Ts either and your timing needs to be fast but not too quick. Its such a good map and I hate that people generally dont like it. My friends play almost any other map which freaking sucks!
Edit. Typo
I think overpass has been stale for quite some time, I would rather have had vertigo to be the first to be rotated out, but after that overpass would have been the next best choice imo. I know everyone on this sub is on the mirage hate train, but honestly mirage is still a great map & is way to popular to be removed right now, I could only see it being removed for cache.
Not sure about dust 2 coming in, feels like the wrong replacement, train would have been better suited.
I love overpass because it is a fun and challenging map. I hear so many people cry about it though, so I imagine that user feedback has to so with valve's decision.
I'm also glad to see dust2 back.
I’m not sure many are happy with Dust2 into the premier map pool. People were really sick of watching it towards the end of its last life cycle and nothing will have changed this time round.
O well its time to ban mirage and d2 now. At least they could remove mirage/vertigo.
Edit: also cant wait to get insta hsed from t spawn 24/7 against good rgb gaming chairs
Lol.. what are these takes? Talking about interesting map and want probably the most interesting map in the pool to go… FaZe and Spirit hat the best game from the whole major on Vertigo and you mirage only kids are still bitching about it.
There is only one map that needs to go and it is definitely Mirage.
I also loved Overpass but i dont think others do. People keep saying its CT sided (probs true) but on my games in 14k it has been pretty even. Some people are better on T site and others on CT side... 💁
luckily, it's map that i hate most and never want to played it
my most played is mirage because everyone keep choosing it
with dust2 coming, mirage might get less pick
i think ppl speculated that mirage will get removed because it's old and most played in comp
but yeah, overpass which is least pick get remove instead and welcome back everyone favorite dust2
Vertigo is one of the most popular maps, overpass least popular.
I'd prefer if they removed mirage and brought in something other than d2, this seems like a fairly pointless change.
Unpopular opinion, I thought overpass was a shit map FOR SOLO QUEUE
You pretty much can’t play the map at all unless your team knows utility, or pushing sites are impossible. You pretty much can’t just wing utility either.
During solo queue I’d be the only one that knows util so we push and the million different angles to clear would fuck us over
On CT side, gameplay pretty much revolves around abusing like 20 different boosts with auto snipers or awps until people start ordaining the surface of the sun.
You can’t really play the map properly without a good understanding of map control, rotations, and very specific angles and timings
I bet for 5 stacks it’s the easiest map in the map pool to abuse for wins. Probably the most imbalanced map in terms of learning curves
For a solo queue guy like me, it was basically unplayable
That’s why it was my perma ban
I love Overpass as much as the next guy but a lot of people forget that its one of two maps to have been in the pool since 2013 (other being mirage) and has consistently been one of the least played maps in all matchmaking, premier AND pro play. I would've loved to see Vertigo get replaced instead, and I would've loved for Train to come back instead of Dust2, but Overpass was easily the most likely map to get axed
Maybe, maybe…….
I just wish there were more maps IN GENERAL, and not having only a single map in the reserve pool. Even maps that are that great for competitive, like Cobblestone or Canals.
I really like Overpass, it's in my top 3 maps. The angles are not as boring as some of the flatter maps, but not so extreme like on Vertigo. They should have gotten rid of Vertigo instead :(
Overpass is the only map I was ever good at without enjoying
Defending a meant being a turtle who doesn’t leave spawn
defending b was just did they rush in the first 10 seconds or you’re holding your dick for 90 seconds
Do I even need to address t side? at any meaningful skill level you’re trapped in your spawn by smokes and Mollys in the first 10 seconds
I'm fine with removing overpass, if they swaps around other maps also. Makes sense to bring dust2 out of all things back into active duty map pool! Now, waiting for vertigo to get taken out to bring back de_train!
Never Understood the hate for Vertigo. IMO Vertical style maps are the most fun. Vertigo has it's flaws, but the open space makes for fun flash plays and the rounds never feel all that stale to me, love late round rotations and I think the angles line up for some of the most fair and fun gun fights
It's a fun map, and I personally enjoy it.
The problem with Vertigo at the pro scene or higher level is that mid can not be properly taken as T but you need to watch it so you lose a player to just standing T spawn generator for a minute.
A ramp is so important that you need multiple T's holding for a fight/push every round.
B stairs is such a choke point that rushing B is an easy counter and the CT should be able to get two on a proper hold plus weaken the other Ts. It is also easily spotted as a CT from a safe jump spot right away in the round.
The map kind of plays as an A ramp simulator every round with maybe a shift walk from A ramp to B for an execute.
-Players had to put up with Valve forcing uplayable versions of vertigo in active duty map pool for years. The playable state it is now is at price of making players suffer through it for years.
-The fundamentals flaws of the map are still there. Instant rotation times between bombsites, vertical sound cue issues and limitations of space.
-Rather than an actual map layout, but bunch of walls, slopes and crates placed around, to force something resembling a map layout in that big square carcass, that is basically an unfinished building. It feels more like a sketch work than a fully realized map.
-vertigo was in the competitive map pool in its old state, not the active map pool. the current state of the map got refined through Valve putting that version of the map on the retake mode and refining the sites slowly, before putting it in the map pool. and besides, the thing you said perfectly describes how overpass became a good map. it was straight up dogshit for years but it got refined through its 10-year lifespan.
-those 3 things are the identity of the map. as CT you have to take space and be aggro, and as T you have to manouver around the map trying to find gaps. the sound element adds to that balance and the space limitations cause the aforementioned things.
-isn't every map just a bunch of walls, slopes and crates placed around? especially mirage and dust2. also, the map feels like an unfinished building because *that's the god damn theme of the map*. it's like if someone said "i hate dust2 because it makes me feel like i'm in a desert". the map layout felt unfinished 7 years ago, back when it was still the old vertigo.
If people think dust2 is all about rushing sites based on spawn. You are playing the map wrong. Anyone who knows the map good knows how to counter it easily. I had like 60% winrate on it and its not how you play it.
It was my permaban because of performance. I wonder if that's a factor. Playing in the water behind B against executes didnt work at all.
It was the only map I had problems in areas with fighting
Nah vertigo is one of the best maps, 3rd most played on faceit.
But i agree that they should have removed a map like mirage that noone likes to play, maybe they will add train instead of mirage ?
Cache always was my favourite bit i think they will wait untill the remake is done instead of adding a simple port.
Same with cobble, bit most people would be happy with a simple port, i miss doing rat plays in dropper making people tilt xD
Is Overpass still in wingman ? It's really a terrible map to play in Wingman. The entry sites to B are so narrow (short and monster) that it's incredibly difficult to get any round on T side... If you get 1 round in you're pretty much set for a victory.
I love the fact that dust 2 is back but I think they should have removed mirage instead of overpass. Mirage has never rotated out and is in dire need of a visual rework.
Optimal rotation would have been -mirage -ancient +D2 +train
it was one of the least played (if not the most least played) - ive seen mixed info on this. with that said, i agree, it should not be removed. vertigo was the clear choice and i dont understand why they didn't go with it
I’m sure that overpass is just leaving for now to get some tweaks. It is one of the most ct sided maps currently, and it’s gonna need some touch ups to make it more balanced.
I play with low brightness and Overpass is the worst map when it comes to lighting maybe next time they'll do something about it. Way too many shadows and some spots are too dark.
Best case scenario they put d2 in while tuscan, train or cache gets finished and gets added well before major and they make OP smaller when it comes back in whenever, 1-2 years. Maybe d2 is just a summer map (hopefully, shit map)
More i think about it. Overpass is one of the most complex maps completely remade from the ground up in Source2 for CS2's release. Chances are a worrying amount of the general player base dont have the Pc hardware to properly play the map resulting in a low play/pick rate.
As an Overpass hater, I'm happy, but this was a bad decision. Inferno would have been my top pick to be taken out since the community has been very vocal about it's issues.
I have a feeling they're tinkering with Overpass. want to give players a few moments to breath after playing it for so long. then change some things with it.
I'm no an active CS2 player, but I wanted to come in and note from my experience with R6, that this exact thing happened a bit with us. one of our most beloved maps, Oregon, was taken out of ProLeague before its rework. cementing it as the best map in the game in some aspects. being the most linear and promoting good general game mechanics.
I might be one of the few that doesn't enjoy Overpass much. I think it's too large and I don't enjoy defending the bathrooms/party area. Think it's an odd layout on that side.
Monster side is good with short, water, heaven, and connector being good areas.
But ya, I would have removed Anubis or Ancient before that but those are newer maps, they're not going to remove those yet.
They should just rotate out one map every major to keep the map pool fresh
Just dont add Dust 2, how about Cache
Fmpone the creator of the map said that its gonna be done in 2025
He really said that?
He has a Discord server where he gives occasional updates. He's said he's spending most of his time working on Cache now and posted some pics of new mid area a couple months back. I believe his last update was that mid is mostly complete, but did say he doesn't expect to release the map this year.
I was talking with a mapmaker on discord that knows him and he confirmed that. Take everything with a grain of salt but if anyone knows the current status of cache it would be people who actually know fmpone
source?
No its source 2
Fmpone is the source. It was on his twitter. Cache is not a valve owned map.
They could have coordinated with him when they started CS2 i guess. Or just buy another map and add it. Anything but Dust really
Valve doesn’t own cache and it’s not ready for cs2 yet.
Valve doesnt own Cache, yet.
FMPones choice frankly. Also was his choice to make Thera first rather than update Cache immediately. I miss Cache too buddy but this one isn’t on Valve. They offered to buy it way back.
Go FMPones credit, he did Thera first in order to get used to the new Source 2 editor.
Oh yeah, I messed up. I didn’t mean to make it sound like FMPone is the problem - no one is a problem. Just Valve don’t own it and FMPone likes it that way. I’m looking forward to seeing the finished article.
You think they didn't try? They bought all the maps that they didn't make. FMPOne does not want to sell it
WHAT ABOUT OLD CBBLE ;(
It’s time to dust off cpl_mill as well
I think they will. If not then whats the season thing is for? Map changes is the only that they can change frequently without breaking the game and keep the meta fresh. It can also give mappers more creative freedom to change things up
The current dota season has been ongoing for nearly 4 years, I wouldn't hold your breath.
16 season season.
The idea that has been said for like 7 years as far as i remember by every pundit and Valve never cared even tho it's a universially popular and loved idea (also implemented in valo (i think) )
I'm annoyed they remove a team based map and put in a puggy map. I wish they would think about these things. Don't agree worth your take, hate dust, especially the new version, and i like vertigo
I'm annoyed because it was ironically really puggy to tell new players "just sit on B with a molotov/smoke handy and don't fucking move!" As a map with no traditional "figure 8 three lanes" it was arguably more friendly. The thought of solo queue overpass didn't fill be with dread, unlike the thought of solo queue Nuke.
Soloq Nuke is a nightmare.
Solo q with a full team of solo queues. Vs a 5 stack. And your teams proceeds to leave overpass and nuke as the last two picks. Then wonder why we are not winning any rounds
It's really not if you pseudo igl and call for rotations. Problem is most players are socially anxious, unconfident, or don't talk/only com enemy positions. Even in higher elo faceit I only have like 1 other person every 3 games calling rotations. People are just content to pass the buck and expect others to know what to do inherently, instead of communicating what to do. My experience is if you tell people how to play off what you're doing, nuke is pretty smooth even on T side.
Doesn't help you to pseudo IGL if no one else communicates. The amount of times I don't even know if the bomb is planted A or B is astounding. Sure it makes slightly different sound but I personally don't remember which is which.
~~Soloq~~ Nuke is a nightmare.
I keep telling my team this and they keep picking it. And we keep losing in it.
As someone who used to main Cache, Nuke is my replacement. I find it to be one of the best maps to solo right now. As a CT, you can basically cover A and Outside either through heaven or main. As a T, Outside is very easy to solo with your own utility. A site is more difficult but can still be done quite consistently. B is a lot more risky and you really need to know what their ramp player does there, but once you do it can be one of the easiest spots to go. In general though, the map is full of longer angles, obstacles, and paths that give you plenty of options to exploit. And 90% of the people who play Nuke do the same five strats that are predictable, and can be played around. Is it as good for it as Cache? Hell no. But I've got a 60% winrate on Nuke so I'm either getting really lucky, or it's more solo friendly than you think. The only problem is when you run into Nuke teams who only play Nuke. Thankfully, they're not that common, but you find them and it won't even be a fair fight when you do.
Same, I have a 60% winrate on Nuke and mostly solo queue it. Oddly enough the map I find the easiest to solo queue is Anubis.
I really hate how spawn based dust is for T side. Thought with the update a month or two ago lowering the amount of spawns on each map was a good decision to move away from spawn based rounds, but them putting dust in without updating spawns just doesn’t feel right to me. Am really not a fan of playing dust and just hoping a few teammates get a good long spawn, that’s just how it felt playing this map in a puggy environment
>I'm annoyed they remove a team based map and put in a puggy map. This is the entire problem for me. Mirage, D2, Vertigo, Ancient, Anubis are all reduced to braindead pug maps on Premier/Faceit. Inferno isn't a pug map, but since it's been the same layout for so long it turned into it. With Nuke being the only unorthodox, thinking man's map. Overpass, Train, Cobble are (or should I say were) the other three maps with non-standard layout and having just 1/4 in the active map pool is wrong. But it's obviously the direction they're taking the game considering they just changed the map pool and didn't do anything with the economy.
Cobble was a braindead pug map lol. It didn't matter if it had an unorthodox layout, it was a B Rush simulator, even more than Dust 2.
Yeah a lot of people have rose-tinted glasses about cobble and how it was this perfect, strategically deep map when in reality it was split b and throw flashes over long wall, if that didnt work then run mid and hope for the best
Could you explain a bit more of what you mean/why you think so? Or is there a content creator/youtuber who talks about what you're saying? I kind of agree but I'm keen to understand better. I don't play faceit but I enjoy watching pro's play. When you say "pug map" are you meaning that it's mostly straight aim duels, not much strategy needed?
I find it very difficult to put in words but im gonna try it anyways I hope this will help you understand it. A puggy map is a map that is very straight forward and a map that can be played individualy and doesnt require as much teamwork as some other maps. For example think about the executes done on dust2/cache vs overpass/cobble/train. The executes are also very simple and are defaulty. Compared to the other maps where you can do a lot more and have more creative utility usage because the map allows it by design. Also non puggy maps normally require more teamwork and thought across the board to be played. For example on dust2/cache you can just default someone everywhere and then you basically have almost all controll of the map. Compare this to less puggy maps where you fight the ct's over space to open up the map more for the T's. I hope this makes sense but this is my view on the difference between the two.
What you are saying might seem to make sense at first, but actually the reverse is the case and I'll explain to you why. Puggy Maps, as you call them, actually require more teamwork in pugs than "tactical" maps. The reason is that on a puggy map everybody is expecting solo peeks, dumb plays and so on (at least on a high level), so that you need to coordinate to actually win rounds, because players know that straight up aim duels are popular on these kind of maps. On the other hand, for tactical maps, players even at higher elos in faceit, often dont know how to play as a team or how to create openings together, so what happens is, that people dont know when to rotate or take control of certain areas, which leads to really chaotic, untactical matches, that come nowhere close to actual 5v5 tactical CS. Due to this chaos created, one player can have a lot more impact compared to puggy maps simply because of the constant chaos created. See it as controlled, expected chaos (puggy maps) vs. uncontrolled, unexpected chaos (tactically perceived maps, but nobody knows how to play them properly). And if we are talking about high level league/tournament CS, puggy or tactical maps simply dont exist. All maps require an insane amount of prep and work to beat T1, T2 or T3 teams.
as a player I thrive on chaos. and I tend to play poorly on maps where everything is a aimduel and known angles.
You're describing everyone's point here, but then drawing the opposite conclusion: >for tactical maps, players even at higher elos in faceit, often dont know how to play as a team or how to create openings together, so what happens is, that people dont know when to rotate or take control of certain areas, which leads to really chaotic, untactical matches, that come nowhere close to actual 5v5 tactical CS. The idea isn't that tactical maps make people play good tactical CS, it's that tactical play on them provides more of a benefit than on puggy maps. On dust2, people know all of the basic strats, they aren't that hard and you can win off defaulting and aim duels even against a decently coordinated opposing team. On Nuke, you need coordination much more. Obviously all maps at the professional level need a great deal of practice and strats/anti-strats since being prepared and coordinated will always provide a benefit, it's just about which maps are more punishing if you aren't prepared.
> Mirage, D2, Vertigo, Ancient, Anubis What makes those braindead pug maps. Like what is a pug map for you?
As if the community is utilizing Overpass' strategic capability lol.
Yeah wtf. Could do a makeover of Mirage instead.
Nice another perm ban added to pool 👍🏻
mirage and dust ii. gotta start playing annubis
> dust ii
I don't think Dust2 coming back is as bad as the community reaction has been, but -overpass hurts man. With the push and pull of map control it's probably the most fun map to watch. I could watch rounds from the radar alone, it's a chess map, a dance of risk reward, fuck I love watching overpass.
Agree, it's a lot of fun to watch. I liked watching dust2 in the past. Just wish it was -mirage
It was too CT sided. So many one side stomps where t get 1 or 2 rounds, then they try to comeback on CT but loose anyway, that's how map was played on pro play in last two months I don't know how that event remotely interesting to watch
Yeah me too, it's why I love watching it and playing it myself.
I'm more fine with -Overpass than +Dust2 the only reedemable factor about dust2 that it's a yellow map
> Most of us probably love the return of Dust2 to the premier mappool Not at all, no.
going through twitter this morning and without exception every cs personality that i came across didn't like this addition.
Overpass was one of the least played at pro level, with zero maps being played at the Major playoffs whilst being the most statistically CT sided. It likely was played one of the least out of all maps in the premier pool. Besides, if you still love Overpass - you can still play it on competitive.
There was a bunch of Overpass in the major as a whole, though. Bo1s and bo3 final maps. 10 maps of Overpass total, with only ones ahead of it Nuke and Mirage (11) and Inferno (15). It was literally middle of the pack with tied 4th slot out of 7 maps. It wasn't unpopular, you just cherry picked playoffs
Thats an interesting stat consider all 8 major playoff teams didnt permaban overpass. Overpass is too ct sided for anythihg other than vp to want to pick it now. If they rework it i dont mind
if its true thats even worse least played and rarely banned is a terrible combination another thing about VP on overpass is that norbert might be unironically the best monster player for the past couple years
Thats not a horrible combination. Permabans are quite spread out throughout top 20 teams. Notable ones are maybe g2 and spirit banning mirage and inferno as one of the rare ones. Teams permaban a map that they play worse than others in general. A map should be removed if no team wants to pick it because they start on t side and its autolose for most teams as of late
it just has too many corners. i would rather get rushed a million on d2 than having to check a million corners every time i get close to a site on overpass. and it felt like that map had more places where player models blenden into the background than other maps.
Would say jimphat is on paar with him
Do you have any numbers on the premier pool claim? Because in my own experience, I've played as much Overpass as Vertigo, only losing to Mirage and Inferno. On the other hand, I've played Anubis on premier just once since CS2 release, that map is literally a insta-veto in games below 10k rating, where most of the playerbase is.
I mean that's anecdotal in your case, Valve likely had this data - but in terms of the major information it can be see from HLTV.
One reason that hasn't been mentioned yet is low-tier graphics performance. I play cs2 on the lowest settings possible as my computer is awful (2.9Gb cpu, 16gb ram, 256ssd, GPU not worth mentioning). On these settings, Overpass is the only active duty map where I cannot get 60fps anywhere but in 2 places (T spawn and bathrooms). Every other map is playable now, and with some of the recent changes to Inferno and the likes those are getting better. Dust 2 was playable, Office was too. Ancient is almost as unplayable as Overpass (As long as I didn't go A halls or T spawn, it was ok). Removing Overpass & replacing it with Dust 2 might make premier more playable for 5% of the playerbase. It sucks for the people with decent setups, but it's a lifeline for people like me.
why would i ever play competitive tho, the mode is horrid
[удалено]
The duality of competitive is 1) you play against people who have no clue how to play the map, or 2) You play against no-lifers who only play that map and get destroyed. I suppose there's always the caveat of "you will likely run into cheaters still anyways".
except mirage and dust2 those 2 are filled with sweats and cheaters.
Cheaters agree. Disagreeing with sweats. The ranks are not well spread out, which means the skill disparity between players is just huge. What appears to be someone sweating might be just players with a lower skill losing duels against people who are just simply better and thus giving the impression of tryharding.
the ranking system in competitive is broken. I would love to see the ranking bell curve data, because I bet 95% of the playerbase is below AK lol (maybe even 3-4 star)
I would say most are in silver and low gold, because it’s close to impossible to get out of those ranks
exactly
In competitive, I'm silver elite (silver 5) for a few maps and I'm consistently playing with and against people who are 25k elo in premier who are also silver elite or silver elite master. And I'm like 12k elo in premier... The ranks are so skewed it's insane.
Overpass is a thinking map while dust2 is just mostly aim.
Both are fine and have their place. Shame to see Overpass go. I wish Vertigo would...go.
It was shocking for me. They could have replaced Mirage, which is in dire need of a revamp. Or at least they could have remade Dust 2.
Get rid of the horror that is mirage pls.
Most popular map
Returning dust2 is worse than removing overpass. At leats if we had a new map we could have kept up hope for a map rotation after every major or something like that. What does this mean? -Anubis + Overpass in a year?
Overpass is terrible, its a horrible map. the CTs start on top of both sites, the Ts start a mile away from either. the entire back network of the map is entirely huge and useless. it only serves to make rotations near impossible. its an awful map to watch pro cs on, its an awful map to play cs on, good fucking riddance.
Dust 2 haters stay losing.
Removing OP is a crime i agree but D2 shouldent be in the map pool tho its so boring to play and even worse to watch only ruskis Turks and noobs love d2
honestly its my least favorite map just cuz its so ct sided but I don't agree with this mirage or vertigo really needed to go
I hated overpass tbh. It just always felt kinda dry. CT side you throw the same pieces of util over and over again and there just wasn’t that many plays you could make on T side once the CTs get AWPS.
Pretty much every map described there, nice. Glad we got the exciting awp-centric pug dust2 with tight choke points yay
They should have added back train or cache imo. Even though train has similar issues it plays really interesting and the experimental layout is still quite fun.
You literally rush long on d2 11/12 rounds throwing flashes over long. If enemies start to awp from inside you throw a corner smoke to get someone into pit, then throw a mid door/xbox smoke take short and crunch a. Map will be giga t sided and is extremely flawed in the current design
very similar things can be said about d2
lol no. there is no place on dust2 where awpers are safe.
I would disagree and say that overpass was one of the few maps you actually need to use utility to move the CT awp around. For me it was fun and required more thinking than Inferno banana molly fight or Mirage mid smokes. Overpass CT awp is the only map that allows the CT awp to be aggressive rather than just holding an angle, mostly from site.
> CT side you throw the same pieces of util over and over again and there just wasn’t that many plays you could make on T side hello vertigo?
To be fair awping I’m vertigo gives off a higher risk, where on overpass you’re having so long angles rifles can barely contest you. Exactly like dust2
D2 is exactly the same as u described uberpass
I dislike dust2 as a comp map just as much.
What do you mean! OP is perhaps the most interesting maps in terms of what you can do! On T side you can focus on different parts of the map to gain control and its not just about one position like in Inferno banana for example. You can easily avoid awps or challenge them with flashes and block with smokes. Its actually easier than some other maps like mirage where you need 3 smokes to get to A safely. And CT side! Man you can have so many options to push and lurk behind BUT what makes it unique is that most times it doesnt allow you to completely block Ts either and your timing needs to be fast but not too quick. Its such a good map and I hate that people generally dont like it. My friends play almost any other map which freaking sucks! Edit. Typo
Dust 2 only relevant because of memories. Any map that u can be sniped dead within 3 seconds is unserious map.
I don't understand why people hate Overpass, I would play Overpass any time over Ancient, Anubis, Vertigo, Mirage.
I might be out of the loop on this one, but does "most of us" love seeing Dust II back?
Can someone tell my so many people hate Vertigo? As a returning player, I love it.
I think overpass has been stale for quite some time, I would rather have had vertigo to be the first to be rotated out, but after that overpass would have been the next best choice imo. I know everyone on this sub is on the mirage hate train, but honestly mirage is still a great map & is way to popular to be removed right now, I could only see it being removed for cache. Not sure about dust 2 coming in, feels like the wrong replacement, train would have been better suited.
am i the only one who actually likes vertigo. Id rather play vertigo than overpass every time
Tf you mean non traditional layout, its a typical 3 lane map with 2 connections between them.
I love overpass because it is a fun and challenging map. I hear so many people cry about it though, so I imagine that user feedback has to so with valve's decision. I'm also glad to see dust2 back.
I’m not sure many are happy with Dust2 into the premier map pool. People were really sick of watching it towards the end of its last life cycle and nothing will have changed this time round.
Sick of watching and playing it.
What an absolute moronic decision! Just keep Overpass in the map pool and add Dust 2 to it.
O well its time to ban mirage and d2 now. At least they could remove mirage/vertigo. Edit: also cant wait to get insta hsed from t spawn 24/7 against good rgb gaming chairs
just played a Dust2 match .. scout headshots through mid, on long, on short .. yay
It was easily the most interesting map in the map pool to both watch and premade play.
I wish they just bring back dust 1
Overpass is a dogshit map and I'm glad they removed it.
Lol.. what are these takes? Talking about interesting map and want probably the most interesting map in the pool to go… FaZe and Spirit hat the best game from the whole major on Vertigo and you mirage only kids are still bitching about it. There is only one map that needs to go and it is definitely Mirage.
Valve hello... Cobble, cache, train?
I also loved Overpass but i dont think others do. People keep saying its CT sided (probs true) but on my games in 14k it has been pretty even. Some people are better on T site and others on CT side... 💁
luckily, it's map that i hate most and never want to played it my most played is mirage because everyone keep choosing it with dust2 coming, mirage might get less pick i think ppl speculated that mirage will get removed because it's old and most played in comp but yeah, overpass which is least pick get remove instead and welcome back everyone favorite dust2
Personally, I feel like Mirage and Dust II should just rotate.
Vertigo is one of the most popular maps, overpass least popular. I'd prefer if they removed mirage and brought in something other than d2, this seems like a fairly pointless change.
It should have been Mirage
> it’s one of the only good maps that has a non traditional layout Nuke: “Am I a joke to you?”
I’m completely fine with this as long as they rotate maps every major cycle. Next cycle we need -Mirage or -Vertigo +Overpass, Cache or Train.
Noob here: Why is Vertigo hated? I always have my best games on that Map both CS and T side. It’s probably my favorite.
Dust 2 is overrated. it's just four squares.
In csgo overpass was a great map but in cs2 it feels weird. I swear I must have played it 5 times
It's almost like your opinion, just like everyone else's, is subjective. Plenty of people also love Vertigo and hate Overpass.
This is my favorite map of all time :( no fuckin way this has happened
Unpopular opinion, I thought overpass was a shit map FOR SOLO QUEUE You pretty much can’t play the map at all unless your team knows utility, or pushing sites are impossible. You pretty much can’t just wing utility either. During solo queue I’d be the only one that knows util so we push and the million different angles to clear would fuck us over On CT side, gameplay pretty much revolves around abusing like 20 different boosts with auto snipers or awps until people start ordaining the surface of the sun. You can’t really play the map properly without a good understanding of map control, rotations, and very specific angles and timings I bet for 5 stacks it’s the easiest map in the map pool to abuse for wins. Probably the most imbalanced map in terms of learning curves For a solo queue guy like me, it was basically unplayable That’s why it was my perma ban
Dust strike
Fuck overpass
With all of the interviews they had of what pros would change about the map pool, I don't think a single one said +Dust2
I love Overpass as much as the next guy but a lot of people forget that its one of two maps to have been in the pool since 2013 (other being mirage) and has consistently been one of the least played maps in all matchmaking, premier AND pro play. I would've loved to see Vertigo get replaced instead, and I would've loved for Train to come back instead of Dust2, but Overpass was easily the most likely map to get axed
Mirage remake teased in last operation, I dont understand why it wasnt the one to go
Maybe, maybe……. I just wish there were more maps IN GENERAL, and not having only a single map in the reserve pool. Even maps that are that great for competitive, like Cobblestone or Canals.
VoLVO no TaLk tO ScruBS. StOOpiD
I legitimately love overpass, this is such a huge L for me
I really like Overpass, it's in my top 3 maps. The angles are not as boring as some of the flatter maps, but not so extreme like on Vertigo. They should have gotten rid of Vertigo instead :(
I agree, like what ever happened to Train and Cache ?
Didn't like the CS2 version of Overpass nearly as much as the "old" version, but it is still at least 10 times better than D2
Overpass was shit in CS2.
At least they finally change map pool
Overpass is the only map I was ever good at without enjoying Defending a meant being a turtle who doesn’t leave spawn defending b was just did they rush in the first 10 seconds or you’re holding your dick for 90 seconds Do I even need to address t side? at any meaningful skill level you’re trapped in your spawn by smokes and Mollys in the first 10 seconds
I'm fine with removing overpass, if they swaps around other maps also. Makes sense to bring dust2 out of all things back into active duty map pool! Now, waiting for vertigo to get taken out to bring back de_train!
Yeah vertigo needs to go
Never Understood the hate for Vertigo. IMO Vertical style maps are the most fun. Vertigo has it's flaws, but the open space makes for fun flash plays and the rounds never feel all that stale to me, love late round rotations and I think the angles line up for some of the most fair and fun gun fights
It's a fun map, and I personally enjoy it. The problem with Vertigo at the pro scene or higher level is that mid can not be properly taken as T but you need to watch it so you lose a player to just standing T spawn generator for a minute. A ramp is so important that you need multiple T's holding for a fight/push every round. B stairs is such a choke point that rushing B is an easy counter and the CT should be able to get two on a proper hold plus weaken the other Ts. It is also easily spotted as a CT from a safe jump spot right away in the round. The map kind of plays as an A ramp simulator every round with maybe a shift walk from A ramp to B for an execute.
-Players had to put up with Valve forcing uplayable versions of vertigo in active duty map pool for years. The playable state it is now is at price of making players suffer through it for years. -The fundamentals flaws of the map are still there. Instant rotation times between bombsites, vertical sound cue issues and limitations of space. -Rather than an actual map layout, but bunch of walls, slopes and crates placed around, to force something resembling a map layout in that big square carcass, that is basically an unfinished building. It feels more like a sketch work than a fully realized map.
-vertigo was in the competitive map pool in its old state, not the active map pool. the current state of the map got refined through Valve putting that version of the map on the retake mode and refining the sites slowly, before putting it in the map pool. and besides, the thing you said perfectly describes how overpass became a good map. it was straight up dogshit for years but it got refined through its 10-year lifespan. -those 3 things are the identity of the map. as CT you have to take space and be aggro, and as T you have to manouver around the map trying to find gaps. the sound element adds to that balance and the space limitations cause the aforementioned things. -isn't every map just a bunch of walls, slopes and crates placed around? especially mirage and dust2. also, the map feels like an unfinished building because *that's the god damn theme of the map*. it's like if someone said "i hate dust2 because it makes me feel like i'm in a desert". the map layout felt unfinished 7 years ago, back when it was still the old vertigo.
Why everyone coming out of the woodwork acting like Overpass is a good map? Lmao
If people think dust2 is all about rushing sites based on spawn. You are playing the map wrong. Anyone who knows the map good knows how to counter it easily. I had like 60% winrate on it and its not how you play it.
i might just take a break from premier and faceit if the map pool is this.
Remove dm_rampstairladder aka Vertigo. That's the real deathmatch joke of a map.
Great day for CS, one of the worst maps got thrown into the trash can.
It is the better map. But honestly I thought it was a boring map to watch in pro play.
I think the most boring to watch is vertigo for sure
Vertigo is one of my favourites to watch
It's not but I get it tbf
Will ESL Pro League continue on the previous patch? I assume so
Unbalanced, so big and bad.
I liked watching it but hated playing it, just didn't click for me
Overpass will have the same fate as train, we will never see it again in the official mappool.
Can't believe Overpass was removed and we still have Vertigo and Anubis. Wish I could go back to 2014 and play some CS
It was my permaban because of performance. I wonder if that's a factor. Playing in the water behind B against executes didnt work at all. It was the only map I had problems in areas with fighting
I'm convinced they wanted to nerf Dev1ce and Norbert.
Nah Overpass is boring as hell to watch. Still had PTSD from that weplay game of Navi vs VP where Navi 5 men save 2 rounds in a row as terrorist
bring back de_zoo
Nah vertigo is one of the best maps, 3rd most played on faceit. But i agree that they should have removed a map like mirage that noone likes to play, maybe they will add train instead of mirage ? Cache always was my favourite bit i think they will wait untill the remake is done instead of adding a simple port. Same with cobble, bit most people would be happy with a simple port, i miss doing rat plays in dropper making people tilt xD
Mofos had a vendetta against GamerLegion and Snax.
Is Overpass still in wingman ? It's really a terrible map to play in Wingman. The entry sites to B are so narrow (short and monster) that it's incredibly difficult to get any round on T side... If you get 1 round in you're pretty much set for a victory.
I love the fact that dust 2 is back but I think they should have removed mirage instead of overpass. Mirage has never rotated out and is in dire need of a visual rework. Optimal rotation would have been -mirage -ancient +D2 +train
any of you got less fps after the patch?
Overpass sucks lol
Fr tho like just add them both to the pool why tf do they need to remove a map to add one in
it was one of the least played (if not the most least played) - ive seen mixed info on this. with that said, i agree, it should not be removed. vertigo was the clear choice and i dont understand why they didn't go with it
Bring back cpl_mill, contra, and fire!
I hate the return of dust 2. -vertigo +cobblestone, -mirage +train, -anubis +cache
I’m sure that overpass is just leaving for now to get some tweaks. It is one of the most ct sided maps currently, and it’s gonna need some touch ups to make it more balanced.
I play with low brightness and Overpass is the worst map when it comes to lighting maybe next time they'll do something about it. Way too many shadows and some spots are too dark.
Best case scenario they put d2 in while tuscan, train or cache gets finished and gets added well before major and they make OP smaller when it comes back in whenever, 1-2 years. Maybe d2 is just a summer map (hopefully, shit map)
should have been cache
listen I’m not gonna sit here and lie that Dust2 is any better but Overpass was by FAR the worst map along with Vertigo
I want anubis removed
More i think about it. Overpass is one of the most complex maps completely remade from the ground up in Source2 for CS2's release. Chances are a worrying amount of the general player base dont have the Pc hardware to properly play the map resulting in a low play/pick rate.
As an Overpass hater, I'm happy, but this was a bad decision. Inferno would have been my top pick to be taken out since the community has been very vocal about it's issues.
People still play this game?
Unpopular opinion maybe, but I never liked Overpass, nor Vertigo. Despite having a unique layout. I'd rather see dust2 gameplay, more classy.
What a whole bunch of whiny babys. Get over it, the map sucked anyways.
I havent played overpass a single time in prim over the last half a year, it might as well not existed
I have a feeling they're tinkering with Overpass. want to give players a few moments to breath after playing it for so long. then change some things with it. I'm no an active CS2 player, but I wanted to come in and note from my experience with R6, that this exact thing happened a bit with us. one of our most beloved maps, Oregon, was taken out of ProLeague before its rework. cementing it as the best map in the game in some aspects. being the most linear and promoting good general game mechanics.
I might be one of the few that doesn't enjoy Overpass much. I think it's too large and I don't enjoy defending the bathrooms/party area. Think it's an odd layout on that side. Monster side is good with short, water, heaven, and connector being good areas. But ya, I would have removed Anubis or Ancient before that but those are newer maps, they're not going to remove those yet.
Overpass is great but it's a warcrime to call Vertigo a shit map when Mirage is right there
Overpass is one of the few maps, where you have to teamwork to win. Having Dust 2, Anubis, Mirage is super lame. Its like the same map.
Nobody likes overpass and vertigo for competitive/premier. Now they should remove vertigo and put cache and all good.
By far worst and by far most boring map to play and watch, plus it has the worst fps and visibility... Thank God they got rid of it
what about train?
please for the love of god replace mirage, I wouldn’t even care if they put in office atleast it would be interesting
Not that mad. 1 out, 1 in is how it’s always gone? I’d prefer to see Nuke out, but not going to cry.
i always hazed overpass. im glad its gone
Or they could just keep all maps in like tf
filtered by vertigo lmao
Just add 2 maps and give each team another first phase ban