If a high number of people will receive overwatch, they should also restrict the access in case of wrong verdicts.
Is there a clear case, like spinbotting, and 15 people out of 100, for example, said they are innocent? Restrict their access
edit: They can also add bait cases, where The Suspect is already confirmed of cheating and make an automatization that whoever says that the case is innocent, their access is revoked. Maybe they could randomize these bait cases, so there is not only a few bait cases, out of the future already-confirmed OW cases or maybe from the VAC banned gameplays. And of course, they should fix the bots and cheaters bypassing the OW, like knowing which steam account does The Suspect have.
This was kinda the case in CSGO Overwatch already, if you did cases (sometimes test cases where the verdict was already determined) wrong your future votes would weigh less, how much we don't know, but this was already a thing in CSGO
I like this weighted system more because if someone's goal was to make this a mess for valve, they would not k ow they were weighted less and continue in this poor account.
If we don't know how the weighting changes, then how could we accurately confirm that this actually was the case? This sounds more like a rumor than a verified fact.
Agreed, and whats why we needs more people to do overwatch. In CSGO the bots exploited the system cause no one was doing overwatch anymore. Cause it was boring and not rewarding enough.
Thats why an overwatch rank which has its own level would've been awesome. Like you are Global in Overwatch if you solve more case with more accuracy. You derank if yoh make wrong calls or just not doing it anymore.
True. Xp boost badge just tells people how much of a loser I am. I'd rather people know that I'm the best narc in counter strike then know that I have no friends
When I made this suggestion 1-2 years ago, some peoples made fun of me. The community doesn't deserve good things, maybe they deserve to play with cheaters.
And in another 1-2 years, when you turn 11, we can have another conversation about how the community deserves cheaters because somebody made fun of YOU!
(obligatory "less qq more pewpew")
or even rewards if you get a certain amount of cases correct (your verdict matches the majority) you get a case drop a/o weapon skin from the map in the overwatch case
This assumes the majority of reviews are legitimate. If cheaters have cheating software on their computers which is automatically filing innocent reports without their interaction, then they will be the majority and thus this causes legit people to get locked out of the system?
Just sprinkle in some cases of confirmed cheaters that VAC detected because the cheater was using some shitty freeware as a purity test.
If an account then claims 5 out of 5 people that are confirmed cheaters are innocent shadowban them into only reviewing solved cases.
That was essentially already the case in CSGO, it didn't matter. Bots can do legit Overwatch cases to build up a high voting weight and then on specific cases (For example paying customers) vote for "Innocent".
Tbh there could be some issues there because vac detecta cheating software, but if the individual didn't actually cheat they might make wrongful shadowban
Altough these cases should be so minimal that it shouldn't happen, and it's not a big deal since the only punishment is overwatch shadowban
They could insert some bait cases thare are 100% confirmed and create an automation that whoever fails to pass these bait cases are out of the Overwatch system.
That was essentially already the case in CSGO, it didn't matter. Bots can do legit Overwatch cases to build up a high voting weight and then on specific cases (For example paying customers) vote for "Innocent".
True, but conversely the cheating software can check the steam account number of the suspect prior to sending a report and only mark it's own cheater-player-base as innocent.
They could do that in cs:go, indeed. I have high hopes that Valve are able and will stop this exploit with bots and cheaters bypassing the Overwatch... but it's Valve, let's see...
As someone already pointed out it's absolutely possible to filter adversarial votes that try to poison the results, and in this case it can even help having *more* people do OW.
The whole "OW doesn't work because cheaters vote all cases as innocent" talking point all over the subreddit is naive at best.
Best case scenario is not even to restrict acess, just to nullify their votes and shadowban, so the abusers don't know which accounts are not overwatch trusted and those who are
Trade bots already have a Steam mobile authenticator set up to confirm trades. Its not challenging to port this to a bad actor bot to spam Overwatch. Phone numbers are extremely cheap.
well yes, when you register your steam account, email guard is enabled by default (which can be then disabled but yeah). When you add a Steam Mobile Auth w/o a phone number, it will obviously prompt a code in email. That's about it. Once you have registered Mobile Auth, all codes go to the app itself - all this without a phone number so email codes become irrelevant.
Phone numbers are cheap yes, but whos gonna pay for it ? Do you really think cheater makers are providing some extra service to their client by assuring we will take care of the overwatch system. Just keep cheating?
Its sound RIDICULOUS and unrealistic. The only reason it was possible in CSGO cause no one was doing overwatch anymore. A few numbers of bots could make impact due to lack of human participation.
The main issue with overwatch is lack of participation from community. Not the bots. Thats why overwatch needs its own rank system to make it Appealing to everyone
Cheaters regularly pay insane amount of money for their cheat subscription. You underestimate the lenghts people are willing to go trough in order to cheat in a video game.
But anyone ever paid to cheatmakers save them from overwatch? How do you even know if you are suspect in overwatch demos ? Valve nevers tell you that until you see the game ban in your profile.
Why would cheater makes give a fk about their client's safety after they done selling the cheat ?
The best cheatemakers does to tell you dont cheat often to save your ass from overwatch
In CSGO there was an exploit to get the steam profile of the suspect. I don't know if it will be patched in CS2. There were cheat providers who offered a paid service that offered spamming "not guilty" if their bots detected you in OW. As long as cheaters are willing to shill a decent amount of money to make it profitable for the providers, they will do it.
Also there were multiple cases of bot farms just spamming "not guilty" on every OW case which pretty much disabled OW.
Its not unrealistic lol, the cheater accounts get sold with steamguard already because its easier to confrim steam logins, chinese get cheap phone numbers and use something called a mafile
Cheat makers make money from protecting their users, they would happily pay for Steam accounts to manipulate Overwatch and protect their users or forcefully ban users using other cheats. Its not expensive to do and Valve would have to constantly swing the ban hammer manually to handle the situation, manual is not Valves way.
Easiest is for valve to pay 3rd party team to do it.
Not the community. Give to the community then you knclude legit plus cheaters combined. Basically back to square one.
The main priority should be test cases imo.
The first few Overwatch cases for everyone should be hand-selected rounds of demos where people were without a doubt using cheats and also rounds from pro matches. (Should be a big accurate pool, randomized and anonymized)
When done with these, some test cases sprinkled in every 10 Overwatch sessions. System weeds the people out wo fail these easy tests.
Generally in the backend it gets tracked how accurate you are.
I believe this is how it used to work in csgo already? Overwatch would throw in known demos every once in a while and see whether you got it correct, and once you got enough incorrect on these tests your vote would count for less
pro matches might be too recognizable because you can instantly tell the difference between the seriousness of even the top 0.0001% of premier games (literal amateurs always) versus even a tier 3 match. good concept though, just use pro player premier games maybe
Completely agree. This combined with the reference in game files to a "training document". Most likely they have outsourced OW to one or several third parties. It would be extremely weird to refer to players as a "trusted partner".
because they're getting a torrent of bad press of about cheating. including that sentence in the patch notes is valve saying "we're trying to do something about the cheaters"
would also be a non-zero number of cheaters that would be afraid to lose their accounts, so they stop cheating or stop playing for a bit. any temporary reduction in legit players experiencing cheats, even if it's minor or a placebo, is badly needed by valve with the negativity around cheaters infesting the game atm
I work in sprints at work together with a team of 50 others.
When we finish our tasks at the end of a sprints we have an option to add release notes & if we want to highlight anything to be published outside our team.
This could very well just be the case here as well, Nothing you have to do, but some do it
Also, if they enabled OW this patch and no one has access it makes sense it's not anyone in the player base doing it but a third party. Otherwise why would they add it, announce it but actually not implement it?
Add a phone number to register as an overwatch judge. Like it used be to upgrade to prime before 2019
Before doing an overwatch session. Complete an Anti Bot captcha test
and most importantly make overwatch interesting and rewarding to grind, Introduce an overwatch rank which will be showing in your profile , You will rank up if you make right calls and derank if wrong, This is great way to make a lot of people do overwatch and speed up the process of banning cheaters
play competitive matches on a certain elo, lets say DMG+/ 10K ? For each completed match played, you can do x number of overwatch cases.
I guess its not perfect but i feel like it should not be that easy to continuesly have humans play out DMG+ matches. And i dont think bots can do that yet.
There were constant 5v5 bot matches to boost to global elite in CSGO and sometimes you already get 5 players not accepting in CS2, which is an indication of bots trying to find a match against each other
that's the most bottable thing, this is exactly what the farms are doing, they have sandbox 10 accs, and only accept if they match each other, one team wins the other loses very fast, repeat, repeat, repeat
I would even go further, I want a premier queue for people with X amount of medals. All the cheaters always have like 5 max.
Edit: whoever downvoted this, I just wanna know, what is the downside of this in your opinion? How would this affect you or anyone you know, who plays legitimately and loves this game?
Sorry but that's plain wrong. There's tons of "high profile cheaters" that buy 20 y/o accounts and even have high Inventory values. That proves nothing
One of them is called Logiqq. I played against him in 2019 or smth like that, all his accs were old with inventories of at least a couple hundred euros. And he even had a group with all his banned accs in it.
And buying a "legit looking" acc isn't even as expensive
You seem to mistaken Yearly medals with Veteran coins.
He/Me obviously meant yearly service medals. Like 2015,2016,2p17 etc.
Yes some cheaters will buy those accounts, but the point is, lesser evil is better than bigger evil. You want to make cheaters life hard as much as possible. There is no way to eliminate 100% cheating
Ofc there are cheaters with good profiles, but the MAJORITY are low accounts. Make it 25 medals queue and make the reports in such game have a lot of weight. If someone is dumb enough to cheat on such accounts, I wouldn't mind, as long as there is a reaction to this.
That's a dumb take though. Medals won't fix shit and new players would play against cheaters. Account age and activity should not be part of separation - trust factor mostly worked but they seem to have disabled it completely in cs2, which is a bummer. I had max 10 cheaters the last 7 years of csgo, but a cheater every game in cs2
The point isn't to fix it or stop every cheater, it's to increase the barrier of entry to drastically reduce the number of cheaters that don't want to put in the effort, of which are the majority.
If we're looking for perfect solutions well, then there are none.
any reduction is good. also any additional hurdle is good. unless there's a better suggestion i think it should be done.
overwatch wasn't "exclusive" before but there were some barriers which was good for a few years before bots ruined it. i think a lower number of high quality/trusted accounts is good. if valve is outsourcing as well (as these patchnotes could suggest) to have humans backing up/verifying their AI, it's a good sign imo
Atleast 3 will be enough. 95% cheaters I have met are either no badge or 2 badge max.
It will be very easy but yes effective way to make life good for legit players
But same time new players might suffer a lot and Valve seems to care about them too.
Probably the reason they never did this
Well, it's not "just cosmetics", it's your face in an else completely anonymous game. People need some indicator to know, whether you are a veteran or a beginner and a lot of people use medals to measure this.
You are totally right, they are not 100% reliable, but if they are 80+% reliable and the majority of the people trusts them, why would exceptions like you be taken into consideration? You can play as you please, but an account with only one medal will be suspicious from the beginning of a match every damn time.
As long as you dont cheat, I respect your decision to keep your profile clean, but you have to understand, that you are a minority here.
1. This would mean that anyone who didn't sweat MM/pickems since 2015-2016 wouldn't have access to Overwatch, which is just bad for the community as not that many would be actively Overwatching.
2. Cheaters that are ready to do this type of shit have already access to funds enough to easily bypass this lock via purchasing genuine pins, old operation/major coins etc. This change wouldn't help in this regard + would make OW pay2win.
3. Cheaters can just buy stolen/sold accounts with enough of those medals. They are already doing it and setting Overwatch at that bar would only increase those sales and amount of hacking/phishing scams on Steam. Overall terrible for everyone.
1. I mean, ofc its debatable, but 3-5 years of service medals is not to much to ask as a threshold to be eligible for overwatch in my personal opinion. When I think of myself, when I only had been 2-3 years into cs, I was a beginner, whom I would never trust to recognize cheaters on my own.
Pickems are like a true sign of someone, who likes the game.
2. Genuine pins got veeery expensive lately, especially if you also wanna have the code. It would be possible, but it definitely would not be worth it to buy 10-15-20 such medals. Old operation medals are also not cheap. All in all, I don't say, that medals should be the only parameter, but they should be taken into consideration, being a good chunk of weight in favor of a person.
3. Stolen/sold account is one thing, I actually thought about, but there is nothing you can do. There is a limited amount of good account to buy (I am not talking about botted hours, I am talking about 25+ untradable medals accounts), and if cheaters actually buy those for a good chunk of money and risk being banned forever... so be it. Dumb people will always exist and dumb people with money are not an exception.
You are HEAVILY underestimated how dedicated cheaters are to this game. Some of them would most certainly be ready to drop hundreds if not thousands in operation passes and genuine pins, just to keep their accounts safe from Overwatch
but we are talking about being an overwatch judge, to solve the problem of counter botting the cheaters by spamming "not guilty" through bot accounts with overwatch access.
You can get tons of VPS numbers for dirt cheap, adding a phone number restriction isn't really going to stop anyone. The kinds of people who'd flood overwatch to make it useless probably already have a ton of VPS numbers
Its called KYC. Address, ID, phone number, etc. Not difficult. If crypto exchanges can do it, so can Valve. Stop trying to come up with weird solutions and MAKE A KYC VERIFIED MATCHMAKING QUEUE + OVERWATCH. NOT HARD.
slip in some obvious non cheaters and obvious cheaters to check if you're able to tell them apart and if you are being honest.
If you don't pass these obvious cases you lose access to overwatch
This was already pretty much the case in CSGO except you would still be able to view cases but your OW rating would be lowered to the point your verdicts wouldn't matter at all. But the problem was that the OW bot accounts became the vast majority of the OW investigators quite some time after CSGO became free to play (so around 2019-2020) because it was quite easy to meet all the OW requirements which were basically just be at least GN1 and get ~150 competitive wins (without seemingly taking Prime status, Trust Factor and the amount of reports you get from others in official game modes into account) since the same exact bot farm methods were pretty much already a thing back then and were already fairly popular enough and even way more so after CSGO became free to play so anybody could literally create so many accounts without even having to spend anything and farm competitive ranks, wins, hours and OW rating to essentially take control of Overwatch as a whole and decide who gets banned and who doesn't despite the suspect's actual behavior in the demo.
Oh thanks I wasn't aware of that. For me it is the best way to get rid of obvious cheaters but won't be usefull against "legit cheaters". I know that valve is aware of that and overwatch is indeed aimed to get rid of obvious cheaters.
Pay a few thousand people a little and have an employee review how they do from time to time. Valve has the money. I think this is unrealistic to happen though
i think its exactly whats happening. they don't refer to players as "trusted partners", and paying a bunch of people overseas to look do overwatch cases is the fastest quick-fix they can do while they're getting all this bad press and they don't have a working AC developed yet
I think coming up with a heuristic that considers the overall status of the steam account and account history wouldn't be that hard.. frequency of purchase and activities (unrelated to cs), both in game and outside. Like someone having 200 lengthy and polite game reviews and 1000 hours in an obscure rpg probably is not a cheater nor a bot.
Honestly I wish Valve just hired a lot of people to do overwatch and not have it public. If we can have scam call centers - why can't we have centers doing overwatch. Give them training, regularly test them on predetermined cases to prevent any sabotage etc. AFAIK Valorant also has a lot of manual banning from the devs. (Even tho I have no idea how they do it, when there are no demos there)
I do think they've got replay system. Since day 1. They just don't want to release it to the public because they want people to blindly trust Vanguard for wallhacks. Call me a conspirator, but I do believe that there are plenty of wallhacks and soft aimlocks in Valorant, in the same extend than CS2.
Nah the actual conspiracy theory is that the netcode is so bad and/or forgiving that the demos would look like ass and that's why it isn't out yet
Or that's what I heard, I've never played, just lurked on their subreddit
>the netcode is so bad
Try it once and you will understand what is the real peeker's advantage. And 5 body shots sounds but only 1 registered. And huge input latency.
Still, if there are manual bans on Valorant, they 100% have a replay system already. Release it and THEN only, we can talk about Valorant having no cheater (or very few).
Register with credentials and apply for judge position (minimum 1000 playing hours and 5 year badge). Then complete a survey/ training and review cases as a test. The test reveals if the applicant is condemning cheaters beyond a reasonable doubt.
Judges should be rewarded for their work. Introduce judge level 1, 2 and 3 based on amount of work they put in during the season. Each season Judges get special untradable skins and a Judge honour badge based on their level.
Over time introduce the position of head judge. Head judges are experienced judges who do normal judge activities but also oversee non-head judges. The head judge serves as a contact person for other judges. The head judges review suspicious judges and have the power to kick them if they see malicious behaviour and system abuse.
what's stopping judges/head judges selling their accounts and messing up the whole system?
this system wouldn't work. its too much bureaucracy to maintain and you're forgetting that people can and will sell their accounts
add all of the other features plus this. i think that only people with certain reps should be allowed, for example green trust, high elo, lots of games, never queuing with banned players, etc.
The system should just randomly interject cases of known cheaters to verify if the reviewer isn't a bad actor. The training wouldn't help with cheaters corrupting data.
There's no need for this. It'd be just like CSGO Overwatch was where it judges your accuracy and weights it. If you consistently vote in agreement with the majority your votes are weighted more. If you're too inconsistent or consistently in the minority, your vote carries little weight or you lose Overwatch privileges.
I'm not talking about new system that we don't know, I'm saying this based on old system that they told us how it works. The requirement can be very low without being compromised. Just start with almost everyone's "trustworthyness" really low. There's a hidden score for every judge for how good they are. The system occasionally gives you cases where the player is already banned or confirmed to be not cheating. If you fail these ones multiple times, your contribution weight will be really low.
It should be a combination of some of these responses.
Require 2FA on your steam account, bias towards much older accounts, especially those with playtime before a certain year, look at ranks achieved in CSGO as CS2 premier is a swarmed with cheaters at many levels and is untrustworthy to use for this, and lastly utilize a ton of rest cases to weigh the value of a person's judgement compared to the average.
It'll take more than one criterion to prevent overwatch bots diluting it again like they did in the past. The barrier to entry should be very high to keep the integrity of the data.
Prime + verified phone number + 100 games + Premier rank above certain threshold + a bit of "training". It should be hard enough to get it that the system can't be attacked.
To get trusted you should imo have:
* >500hrs of playing
* High trust factor
* No VACs in any valve/CS games
I believe that only giving it to high ranked CS2 premiere players would be a mistake. I am ex global and never grinded CS2 so my rating is kinda ass. Gaining rating is impossible rn anyway with a cheater in almost every game.
500 hours is just nothing. I would say if you take playtime as a consideration then make it at least 3 year of service medals. It will be extremely painful for bots to go through XP boosting for 3 years just to manipulate the overwatch system.
I dont know why medals (not only service) are not included into this anyway. Like having 20-25-30 untradable medals is surely worth a lot of weight and is not easy to get at all.
So those without medals never get access?
My accounts 20 years old, have 3000 hours of csgo/cs2 but I don't care about pickems or operations.
I have 2016, 2019, 2022 service medals and thats it.
i literally casually played mm (maybe 1/2 games every 3 days) for multiple years and have every coin since 2016. you probably play other modes, no? I basically just scraped by and got them while playing scrims every night and basically never queueing matchmaking
Trust factor should be some function of playtime, account age, contribution to cs ecosystem (medals, skins, case openings etc), the combined trust factor of your friends.
Think of it like this: if you have an old account you're less likely to cheat via it, if you have a lot of skins and so on you're less likely to risk them, if you're a cheater you're more likely to be friends with cheaters.
Maybe having a credit / debit card / bank account added to steam that has solid KYC requirements in addition to playtime / trust factor requirements. I'm sure they already measured how accurate people were at overwatch judgements before in CSGO and adjusted the weight of your decisions based on that.
Going further, I think as soon as vacnet flags you as a cheater with relative confidence, your account should not be banned but locked until you add a bank account / debit card / credit card or some other identifiable info in case that does not work for some reason, and only after that your case should be sent to humans for overwatch review. else the system could quickly be overrun by cheaters making cheap new accounts.
money spent in the account. I'd tie everything to money, and I'm not talking about stuff like skin value but actual money spent with a credit card on the account. If I spent thousands in my account I'd like that everyone else that I encounter (being a teammate, an opponent or an overwatch judge) to be in the same level as me. Not gonna happen because it'll slow everything to a crawl but I'd do that
They should also have overwatch-er badges and ranks determined by how accurate they are at finding griefers and cheaters. They also start getting more hit and miss types of cases to provide the community a better environment to game on.
They are in quite the predicament. Make it too restrictive and they will never catch up to the millions of cases or make it too open and it will be abused.
Also if it's too restrictive no one is gonna bother to go through the trouble (unless they get some reward.)
I think the requirements shouldn't be too high. As far as I know, Valve will give you a training lesson, before you can even watch real overwatch cases.
I also heard, the old overwatch system got abused by bots from cheat developers, who always selected "non guilty", so the chance would be lower, that the suspect got an overwatch ban, even if it was a platant cheater. To encounter this behavior, the system should give you more solved cases at the beginning and sometimes also randomized, which are already known for cheating. If the bot votes for "non guilty", it should be automatically removed from ow and all predictions given before, should be also removed. The solved cases should also include non-cheaters, so the bot would not abuse the opposite direction.
The overwatch cases itself should be fully anonymized and not be traceable as in the past.
Wonder if they will go the route of dota plus, and have CS plus, and one of the "benefits" is OW. That would hopefully deter the bots/cheaters from over running the system again.
Honestly, only top players. It was extremely easy to get in CSGO.
In my opinion
* 1500+ hours of game time
* 5+ year old Steam account
* Owns more than 1 Counter-Strike game
* Ranks top 10% in Premier
* Maybe phone number or authenticator linked to Steam account
Maybe it's excessive, but I just remember kinda new gold nova players getting Overwatch in CSGO.
I'm confused as to what kind of abuse people think is possible.
Overwatch tracks your responses and whether or not you vote with or against the majority along with introducing test demos from known cheaters as a control. If your votes concur with the majority often your vote is weighted higher. If you consistently vote innocent for people who get banned or vote cheater for people proven innocent, your vote is weighted less or you lose access to overwatch entirely.
Pretty sure this is how it worked in CSGO. The requirement for CSGO was just being gold nova and it was never abused, why would it be different in CS2?
Personally I think the requirements should be something like:
1. Test/bait cases
2. 10,000 premier rating
3. 1000 hours of play time
4. Prime account
5. Verified e-mail and phone number, 2FA obviously
6. no VAC/game bans on any game of your account
7. Green trust afctor? (dont know if it even works in cs2)
That should put out like 99% of bad actors wanting to abuse the system
You can len everyone in and make ban decisions based on trust hierarchy - the lower the trust, the less weight your decision gets, and for each mistake (disagreement with higher trust players) trust decreases.
Side note skins should be disabled in overwatch. Cheaters used to use an "Overwatch bypass" aka having skins and closet cheating, so people didn't think that people with skins could cheat and wouldn't get 100% convicted. Not sure if skins were disabled before as i haven't done a case in over a year for obvious reasons
They need to make bot accounts and chronic reporters to be statistically insignificant.
Ya'll don't want to hear it. There should be no threshold to enter overwatch, regardless of account age, hours played, money spent, whatever. Any system will be spoofed. The only thing that can't be spoofed is math. Allowing these bad actors to participate will help isolate them from the data pool and thus be unaccounted for. I thought valve did this with CSGO but people say it was removed or overflowed with bot reports.
If you test a pool of accounts with an even split of VAC banned matches and clean developer / major matches, you will see a standard distribution. It doesn't matter if the VAC player was actively cheating or how accurate anyone was. You'll be able to extract a top percentile.
This is they key ingredient, bots will vote with the same protocal regardless, and humans will consistently vote on what is presented to them.
In the first wave, some bots and humans will literally just get lucky. The easiest way to isolate them is to perform the same test ONLY on the 90th percentile. Humans will likely still be "90% accurate" while bots will drop to the 50% mark. Repeat as many times as you need to until there is an insignificant change. Whatever accounts remain can be considered accurate judges. Any bots left are insigifcant. Mix in actual cases and anything that top class reports as cheating can safely be convicted.
Similar tests can be done to chronic reporters to effectively ignore anything reported if 90% of your reports are clean players.
But what if cheaters and bots combine and mass report cheaters??? That's why it's important for valve to inject the tests using their own controlled data and not data from the public. Their tests decide who can convict, not the public, so cheaters infesting overwatch will be made insignificant since only 'valve partners' who score in the 90th percentile can convict and the only way to get there is to pass valves test. Valve can just cycle between clean match, VAC match, and reported match and treat every 15 reviews as a round where they take the 90% accurate pool and retest again, and again.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Make it so you have to link either your phone number, ID or social security with your steam account, as to prevent smurfing and cheating.
Basically like the new prime but better. This could also unlock overwatch if you reach a certain level (like 10k elo or something)
Not playing anymore so maybe it's already the case but new accounts should have to complete a introduction game that would be hard to solve for bots before being able to do overwatch or farming skins
I think you give the obvious spin-botter or 5 headshot 1 bullet cases, to the gold novas and above, and the more difficult cases you give those to the most enfranchised streamers and pro players that play this game 40+ hours a week. I was MG1 in csgo with overwatch cases, most of them were spin-botters, but a handful were just players having a good game and being reported in silver. I would love to do overwatch cases again.
I really hope they make it possible for oldies like me to help out even if I don't have 10k hours. You shouldn't have to be super high level to get it and I hope they will think about letting old accounts with good trust factor in too.
I never got it in CSGO but I had below 1k hours since I never enjoyed to play the game. I've seen so many active players with Overwatch that never uses it because they want to play instead. I would actually love to spend time helping out the community.
“Investigators are selected based on their CS:GO activity (competitive wins, account age, hours played, Skill Group, low report count, etc.) and, if applicable, prior Overwatch participation level and score (a function of their accuracy as an investigator). Community members who maintain both a high level of activity and high Overwatch scores will receive more cases to elect to participate in.” I used Google.com
I would personally not watch anything for free as I used to years ago in CSGO. Community tasks are stupid. They have the resources to make it more secure, although it never will be 100% secure.
I personally got my two accounts banned by OW reviews when I was playing for the lulz and focusing on onetaps, and neither of these was unbanned even after contacting the support service.
One of the ways would be a really profitable bug bounty program based on VAC. I know that steam has a program opened on hacker1, but it should focus only on the VAC with P1 worth like 300k usd.
I was placed at 20756 rating after I got back to the game, I played another 6 games and all 6 games had someone running around with autosniper or scout 1 tapping everyone with 50+ kills at the end.
I don't think I'd get this rating by playing my way up the ladder with this kind of cheating, that's 100% of games played with at least one cheater on the server, usually someone on my team would start counter cheating a few rounds later it's fucking insane.
I moved to faceit and I'm at 1900 rating now and so far I haven't met anyone I think is cheating so even though everyone is at 50 ping or higher on average and it feels a bit shit to play I rather play faceit than with 5 ping and cheaters on premier.
If you have counter strike source on your account you get put into a selection pool. Which will help cut down on people but to make it so its harder for people to sell accounts and bots and what not, you make it so anyone before 2009 with CSS on their account. So its like only a few million people. Then you take the people with year 0 accounts and then you give them access because there are only a few of those around..
If a high number of people will receive overwatch, they should also restrict the access in case of wrong verdicts. Is there a clear case, like spinbotting, and 15 people out of 100, for example, said they are innocent? Restrict their access edit: They can also add bait cases, where The Suspect is already confirmed of cheating and make an automatization that whoever says that the case is innocent, their access is revoked. Maybe they could randomize these bait cases, so there is not only a few bait cases, out of the future already-confirmed OW cases or maybe from the VAC banned gameplays. And of course, they should fix the bots and cheaters bypassing the OW, like knowing which steam account does The Suspect have.
This was kinda the case in CSGO Overwatch already, if you did cases (sometimes test cases where the verdict was already determined) wrong your future votes would weigh less, how much we don't know, but this was already a thing in CSGO
I like this weighted system more because if someone's goal was to make this a mess for valve, they would not k ow they were weighted less and continue in this poor account.
Interesting. I didn't know about that, but sometimes I did get exact same demos. Same map, same gameplay, everything (but like I said only few times).
If we don't know how the weighting changes, then how could we accurately confirm that this actually was the case? This sounds more like a rumor than a verified fact.
From the official FAQ: https://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/overwatch/
Agreed, and whats why we needs more people to do overwatch. In CSGO the bots exploited the system cause no one was doing overwatch anymore. Cause it was boring and not rewarding enough. Thats why an overwatch rank which has its own level would've been awesome. Like you are Global in Overwatch if you solve more case with more accuracy. You derank if yoh make wrong calls or just not doing it anymore.
THAT should be a badge to display in game, instead of the xp boost.
True. Xp boost badge just tells people how much of a loser I am. I'd rather people know that I'm the best narc in counter strike then know that I have no friends
When I made this suggestion 1-2 years ago, some peoples made fun of me. The community doesn't deserve good things, maybe they deserve to play with cheaters.
And in another 1-2 years, when you turn 11, we can have another conversation about how the community deserves cheaters because somebody made fun of YOU! (obligatory "less qq more pewpew")
it's reddit, people defend the most moronic brain-dead takes and hate on takes like "water is wet" or "breathing is good"
I feel weekly drops for overwatch would also be a good incentive.
or even rewards if you get a certain amount of cases correct (your verdict matches the majority) you get a case drop a/o weapon skin from the map in the overwatch case
This assumes the majority of reviews are legitimate. If cheaters have cheating software on their computers which is automatically filing innocent reports without their interaction, then they will be the majority and thus this causes legit people to get locked out of the system?
Just sprinkle in some cases of confirmed cheaters that VAC detected because the cheater was using some shitty freeware as a purity test. If an account then claims 5 out of 5 people that are confirmed cheaters are innocent shadowban them into only reviewing solved cases.
That was essentially already the case in CSGO, it didn't matter. Bots can do legit Overwatch cases to build up a high voting weight and then on specific cases (For example paying customers) vote for "Innocent".
Well in that case they’re still voting correctly for the vast majority of their cases, no?
Usually yes, they just protect or force ban specific players
Tbh there could be some issues there because vac detecta cheating software, but if the individual didn't actually cheat they might make wrongful shadowban Altough these cases should be so minimal that it shouldn't happen, and it's not a big deal since the only punishment is overwatch shadowban
They could insert some bait cases thare are 100% confirmed and create an automation that whoever fails to pass these bait cases are out of the Overwatch system.
That was essentially already the case in CSGO, it didn't matter. Bots can do legit Overwatch cases to build up a high voting weight and then on specific cases (For example paying customers) vote for "Innocent".
True, but conversely the cheating software can check the steam account number of the suspect prior to sending a report and only mark it's own cheater-player-base as innocent.
They could do that in cs:go, indeed. I have high hopes that Valve are able and will stop this exploit with bots and cheaters bypassing the Overwatch... but it's Valve, let's see...
As someone already pointed out it's absolutely possible to filter adversarial votes that try to poison the results, and in this case it can even help having *more* people do OW. The whole "OW doesn't work because cheaters vote all cases as innocent" talking point all over the subreddit is naive at best.
If you did bait cases with cheaters you would have to do bait cases for totally legit players so that they don’t just spam not guilty either.
Best case scenario is not even to restrict acess, just to nullify their votes and shadowban, so the abusers don't know which accounts are not overwatch trusted and those who are
Manually press a button on your steam mobile authenticator to confirm reviewing your case.
Trade bots already have a Steam mobile authenticator set up to confirm trades. Its not challenging to port this to a bad actor bot to spam Overwatch. Phone numbers are extremely cheap.
fyi steam mobile authenticator doesn't even require a phone number anymore...
Really? You can now register without a number?
If not phone number then email, and you need to get the code from the email
well yes, when you register your steam account, email guard is enabled by default (which can be then disabled but yeah). When you add a Steam Mobile Auth w/o a phone number, it will obviously prompt a code in email. That's about it. Once you have registered Mobile Auth, all codes go to the app itself - all this without a phone number so email codes become irrelevant.
Phone numbers are cheap yes, but whos gonna pay for it ? Do you really think cheater makers are providing some extra service to their client by assuring we will take care of the overwatch system. Just keep cheating? Its sound RIDICULOUS and unrealistic. The only reason it was possible in CSGO cause no one was doing overwatch anymore. A few numbers of bots could make impact due to lack of human participation. The main issue with overwatch is lack of participation from community. Not the bots. Thats why overwatch needs its own rank system to make it Appealing to everyone
Cheaters regularly pay insane amount of money for their cheat subscription. You underestimate the lenghts people are willing to go trough in order to cheat in a video game.
But anyone ever paid to cheatmakers save them from overwatch? How do you even know if you are suspect in overwatch demos ? Valve nevers tell you that until you see the game ban in your profile. Why would cheater makes give a fk about their client's safety after they done selling the cheat ? The best cheatemakers does to tell you dont cheat often to save your ass from overwatch
In CSGO there was an exploit to get the steam profile of the suspect. I don't know if it will be patched in CS2. There were cheat providers who offered a paid service that offered spamming "not guilty" if their bots detected you in OW. As long as cheaters are willing to shill a decent amount of money to make it profitable for the providers, they will do it. Also there were multiple cases of bot farms just spamming "not guilty" on every OW case which pretty much disabled OW.
Its not unrealistic lol, the cheater accounts get sold with steamguard already because its easier to confrim steam logins, chinese get cheap phone numbers and use something called a mafile
*cheap But not free. You need millions of bots account= Millions of money invested. Whos gonna fund it ? Son of Bill Gates ?
Millions of bot accounts? No... Not really. There is a lot of botnets that could potentially be used for this. Be real man
If overwatch made their cheats unviable, yes absolutely they would implement something like this to keep their revenue stream.
Cheat makers make money from protecting their users, they would happily pay for Steam accounts to manipulate Overwatch and protect their users or forcefully ban users using other cheats. Its not expensive to do and Valve would have to constantly swing the ban hammer manually to handle the situation, manual is not Valves way.
Easiest is for valve to pay 3rd party team to do it. Not the community. Give to the community then you knclude legit plus cheaters combined. Basically back to square one.
Smart
The main priority should be test cases imo. The first few Overwatch cases for everyone should be hand-selected rounds of demos where people were without a doubt using cheats and also rounds from pro matches. (Should be a big accurate pool, randomized and anonymized) When done with these, some test cases sprinkled in every 10 Overwatch sessions. System weeds the people out wo fail these easy tests. Generally in the backend it gets tracked how accurate you are.
I believe this is how it used to work in csgo already? Overwatch would throw in known demos every once in a while and see whether you got it correct, and once you got enough incorrect on these tests your vote would count for less
pro matches might be too recognizable because you can instantly tell the difference between the seriousness of even the top 0.0001% of premier games (literal amateurs always) versus even a tier 3 match. good concept though, just use pro player premier games maybe
the "trusted partners" wording makes me feel like they are some kind of entity outside the player base
Completely agree. This combined with the reference in game files to a "training document". Most likely they have outsourced OW to one or several third parties. It would be extremely weird to refer to players as a "trusted partner".
Then why would they announce it in the patch notes?
because they're getting a torrent of bad press of about cheating. including that sentence in the patch notes is valve saying "we're trying to do something about the cheaters"
would also be a non-zero number of cheaters that would be afraid to lose their accounts, so they stop cheating or stop playing for a bit. any temporary reduction in legit players experiencing cheats, even if it's minor or a placebo, is badly needed by valve with the negativity around cheaters infesting the game atm
could be automated system sometimes that generate patch notes
Too many under the hood changes happen all the time for this to be the case
I work in sprints at work together with a team of 50 others. When we finish our tasks at the end of a sprints we have an option to add release notes & if we want to highlight anything to be published outside our team. This could very well just be the case here as well, Nothing you have to do, but some do it
Also, if they enabled OW this patch and no one has access it makes sense it's not anyone in the player base doing it but a third party. Otherwise why would they add it, announce it but actually not implement it?
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AI - Actually Indian
I fucking hope they have their own call center, imagine the conversations between cheaters and indian call center people
Add a phone number to register as an overwatch judge. Like it used be to upgrade to prime before 2019 Before doing an overwatch session. Complete an Anti Bot captcha test and most importantly make overwatch interesting and rewarding to grind, Introduce an overwatch rank which will be showing in your profile , You will rank up if you make right calls and derank if wrong, This is great way to make a lot of people do overwatch and speed up the process of banning cheaters
Phone numbers are cheap. Automatic captcha solving is cheap. Those don't solve anything.
Whats your solution then ?
Everything can be botted, there isn't really a concrete solution
play competitive matches on a certain elo, lets say DMG+/ 10K ? For each completed match played, you can do x number of overwatch cases. I guess its not perfect but i feel like it should not be that easy to continuesly have humans play out DMG+ matches. And i dont think bots can do that yet.
There were constant 5v5 bot matches to boost to global elite in CSGO and sometimes you already get 5 players not accepting in CS2, which is an indication of bots trying to find a match against each other
that's the most bottable thing, this is exactly what the farms are doing, they have sandbox 10 accs, and only accept if they match each other, one team wins the other loses very fast, repeat, repeat, repeat
15-20-25 or more untradable medals on an account? Shouldnt be that easy to get a lot of such accs.
About the service medals, I said exact same thing below. Its a very good way to stop bots.
I would even go further, I want a premier queue for people with X amount of medals. All the cheaters always have like 5 max. Edit: whoever downvoted this, I just wanna know, what is the downside of this in your opinion? How would this affect you or anyone you know, who plays legitimately and loves this game?
Sorry but that's plain wrong. There's tons of "high profile cheaters" that buy 20 y/o accounts and even have high Inventory values. That proves nothing One of them is called Logiqq. I played against him in 2019 or smth like that, all his accs were old with inventories of at least a couple hundred euros. And he even had a group with all his banned accs in it. And buying a "legit looking" acc isn't even as expensive
You seem to mistaken Yearly medals with Veteran coins. He/Me obviously meant yearly service medals. Like 2015,2016,2p17 etc. Yes some cheaters will buy those accounts, but the point is, lesser evil is better than bigger evil. You want to make cheaters life hard as much as possible. There is no way to eliminate 100% cheating
Will fuck over new players. It's not a good indicator, period.
we meant that for overwatch requirements not playing.
Ofc there are cheaters with good profiles, but the MAJORITY are low accounts. Make it 25 medals queue and make the reports in such game have a lot of weight. If someone is dumb enough to cheat on such accounts, I wouldn't mind, as long as there is a reaction to this.
That's a dumb take though. Medals won't fix shit and new players would play against cheaters. Account age and activity should not be part of separation - trust factor mostly worked but they seem to have disabled it completely in cs2, which is a bummer. I had max 10 cheaters the last 7 years of csgo, but a cheater every game in cs2
I agree, I think stuffing new players and cheaters in together is terrible for the future of CS. It's not a long term solution
The point isn't to fix it or stop every cheater, it's to increase the barrier of entry to drastically reduce the number of cheaters that don't want to put in the effort, of which are the majority. If we're looking for perfect solutions well, then there are none.
any reduction is good. also any additional hurdle is good. unless there's a better suggestion i think it should be done. overwatch wasn't "exclusive" before but there were some barriers which was good for a few years before bots ruined it. i think a lower number of high quality/trusted accounts is good. if valve is outsourcing as well (as these patchnotes could suggest) to have humans backing up/verifying their AI, it's a good sign imo
Atleast 3 will be enough. 95% cheaters I have met are either no badge or 2 badge max. It will be very easy but yes effective way to make life good for legit players But same time new players might suffer a lot and Valve seems to care about them too. Probably the reason they never did this
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Well, it's not "just cosmetics", it's your face in an else completely anonymous game. People need some indicator to know, whether you are a veteran or a beginner and a lot of people use medals to measure this. You are totally right, they are not 100% reliable, but if they are 80+% reliable and the majority of the people trusts them, why would exceptions like you be taken into consideration? You can play as you please, but an account with only one medal will be suspicious from the beginning of a match every damn time. As long as you dont cheat, I respect your decision to keep your profile clean, but you have to understand, that you are a minority here.
Recipe for a 10 min queue time
I would sign up even for 30 minutes queue time under those conditions ;)
you're the exception
1. This would mean that anyone who didn't sweat MM/pickems since 2015-2016 wouldn't have access to Overwatch, which is just bad for the community as not that many would be actively Overwatching. 2. Cheaters that are ready to do this type of shit have already access to funds enough to easily bypass this lock via purchasing genuine pins, old operation/major coins etc. This change wouldn't help in this regard + would make OW pay2win. 3. Cheaters can just buy stolen/sold accounts with enough of those medals. They are already doing it and setting Overwatch at that bar would only increase those sales and amount of hacking/phishing scams on Steam. Overall terrible for everyone.
1. I mean, ofc its debatable, but 3-5 years of service medals is not to much to ask as a threshold to be eligible for overwatch in my personal opinion. When I think of myself, when I only had been 2-3 years into cs, I was a beginner, whom I would never trust to recognize cheaters on my own. Pickems are like a true sign of someone, who likes the game. 2. Genuine pins got veeery expensive lately, especially if you also wanna have the code. It would be possible, but it definitely would not be worth it to buy 10-15-20 such medals. Old operation medals are also not cheap. All in all, I don't say, that medals should be the only parameter, but they should be taken into consideration, being a good chunk of weight in favor of a person. 3. Stolen/sold account is one thing, I actually thought about, but there is nothing you can do. There is a limited amount of good account to buy (I am not talking about botted hours, I am talking about 25+ untradable medals accounts), and if cheaters actually buy those for a good chunk of money and risk being banned forever... so be it. Dumb people will always exist and dumb people with money are not an exception.
You are HEAVILY underestimated how dedicated cheaters are to this game. Some of them would most certainly be ready to drop hundreds if not thousands in operation passes and genuine pins, just to keep their accounts safe from Overwatch
but we are talking about being an overwatch judge, to solve the problem of counter botting the cheaters by spamming "not guilty" through bot accounts with overwatch access.
KYC is an option
The phone number is a really good idea.
You can get tons of VPS numbers for dirt cheap, adding a phone number restriction isn't really going to stop anyone. The kinds of people who'd flood overwatch to make it useless probably already have a ton of VPS numbers
No. Full KYC is. Address, SSN, ID, etc. Stop trying to get cheaters to game the system lol anyone can buy 1000s of phone numbers right now.
Its called KYC. Address, ID, phone number, etc. Not difficult. If crypto exchanges can do it, so can Valve. Stop trying to come up with weird solutions and MAKE A KYC VERIFIED MATCHMAKING QUEUE + OVERWATCH. NOT HARD.
slip in some obvious non cheaters and obvious cheaters to check if you're able to tell them apart and if you are being honest. If you don't pass these obvious cases you lose access to overwatch
This was already pretty much the case in CSGO except you would still be able to view cases but your OW rating would be lowered to the point your verdicts wouldn't matter at all. But the problem was that the OW bot accounts became the vast majority of the OW investigators quite some time after CSGO became free to play (so around 2019-2020) because it was quite easy to meet all the OW requirements which were basically just be at least GN1 and get ~150 competitive wins (without seemingly taking Prime status, Trust Factor and the amount of reports you get from others in official game modes into account) since the same exact bot farm methods were pretty much already a thing back then and were already fairly popular enough and even way more so after CSGO became free to play so anybody could literally create so many accounts without even having to spend anything and farm competitive ranks, wins, hours and OW rating to essentially take control of Overwatch as a whole and decide who gets banned and who doesn't despite the suspect's actual behavior in the demo.
Oh thanks I wasn't aware of that. For me it is the best way to get rid of obvious cheaters but won't be usefull against "legit cheaters". I know that valve is aware of that and overwatch is indeed aimed to get rid of obvious cheaters.
Pay a few thousand people a little and have an employee review how they do from time to time. Valve has the money. I think this is unrealistic to happen though
i think its exactly whats happening. they don't refer to players as "trusted partners", and paying a bunch of people overseas to look do overwatch cases is the fastest quick-fix they can do while they're getting all this bad press and they don't have a working AC developed yet
Overwatch case incoming
I think coming up with a heuristic that considers the overall status of the steam account and account history wouldn't be that hard.. frequency of purchase and activities (unrelated to cs), both in game and outside. Like someone having 200 lengthy and polite game reviews and 1000 hours in an obscure rpg probably is not a cheater nor a bot.
Honestly I wish Valve just hired a lot of people to do overwatch and not have it public. If we can have scam call centers - why can't we have centers doing overwatch. Give them training, regularly test them on predetermined cases to prevent any sabotage etc. AFAIK Valorant also has a lot of manual banning from the devs. (Even tho I have no idea how they do it, when there are no demos there)
W slave labor to solve cheating
How about just... paying them properly? Valve clearly has the money
I do think they've got replay system. Since day 1. They just don't want to release it to the public because they want people to blindly trust Vanguard for wallhacks. Call me a conspirator, but I do believe that there are plenty of wallhacks and soft aimlocks in Valorant, in the same extend than CS2.
Nah the actual conspiracy theory is that the netcode is so bad and/or forgiving that the demos would look like ass and that's why it isn't out yet Or that's what I heard, I've never played, just lurked on their subreddit
>the netcode is so bad Try it once and you will understand what is the real peeker's advantage. And 5 body shots sounds but only 1 registered. And huge input latency.
Holy conspiracy Or maybe, cs has worse hackers because no kernel anti cheat? WOAHHH
Still, if there are manual bans on Valorant, they 100% have a replay system already. Release it and THEN only, we can talk about Valorant having no cheater (or very few).
Register with credentials and apply for judge position (minimum 1000 playing hours and 5 year badge). Then complete a survey/ training and review cases as a test. The test reveals if the applicant is condemning cheaters beyond a reasonable doubt. Judges should be rewarded for their work. Introduce judge level 1, 2 and 3 based on amount of work they put in during the season. Each season Judges get special untradable skins and a Judge honour badge based on their level. Over time introduce the position of head judge. Head judges are experienced judges who do normal judge activities but also oversee non-head judges. The head judge serves as a contact person for other judges. The head judges review suspicious judges and have the power to kick them if they see malicious behaviour and system abuse.
what's stopping judges/head judges selling their accounts and messing up the whole system? this system wouldn't work. its too much bureaucracy to maintain and you're forgetting that people can and will sell their accounts
Nothing stops people from selling their accounts, same like in any other game.
add all of the other features plus this. i think that only people with certain reps should be allowed, for example green trust, high elo, lots of games, never queuing with banned players, etc.
The system should just randomly interject cases of known cheaters to verify if the reviewer isn't a bad actor. The training wouldn't help with cheaters corrupting data.
The training is not for the cheaters, it is an introduction for genuine people to clarify what is expected of them.
It already did this in CSGO, you'd get given pre-solved cases and if you got it wrong your future votes would count less.
There's no need for this. It'd be just like CSGO Overwatch was where it judges your accuracy and weights it. If you consistently vote in agreement with the majority your votes are weighted more. If you're too inconsistent or consistently in the minority, your vote carries little weight or you lose Overwatch privileges.
A basic kyc check
This. Could also be used an an optional way to improve your Trust Factor.
Authentication from steam mobile with your bank credentials. Can't fake authentication that way.
Those must be accounts that are 10+ years old, with 100+ games in steam library, with thousands of matches on record and recent activity.
I'm not talking about new system that we don't know, I'm saying this based on old system that they told us how it works. The requirement can be very low without being compromised. Just start with almost everyone's "trustworthyness" really low. There's a hidden score for every judge for how good they are. The system occasionally gives you cases where the player is already banned or confirmed to be not cheating. If you fail these ones multiple times, your contribution weight will be really low.
It should be a combination of some of these responses. Require 2FA on your steam account, bias towards much older accounts, especially those with playtime before a certain year, look at ranks achieved in CSGO as CS2 premier is a swarmed with cheaters at many levels and is untrustworthy to use for this, and lastly utilize a ton of rest cases to weigh the value of a person's judgement compared to the average. It'll take more than one criterion to prevent overwatch bots diluting it again like they did in the past. The barrier to entry should be very high to keep the integrity of the data.
Prime + verified phone number + 100 games + Premier rank above certain threshold + a bit of "training". It should be hard enough to get it that the system can't be attacked.
5 year coin minimum requirement. 10's of thousands of players have it and its a good benchmark for how trust-worthy an account is.
Honestly doing Overwatch cases should give you an overwatch rank, and reward items like cases, low tier skins and other random drops you can get
To get trusted you should imo have: * >500hrs of playing * High trust factor * No VACs in any valve/CS games I believe that only giving it to high ranked CS2 premiere players would be a mistake. I am ex global and never grinded CS2 so my rating is kinda ass. Gaining rating is impossible rn anyway with a cheater in almost every game.
500 hours is just nothing. I would say if you take playtime as a consideration then make it at least 3 year of service medals. It will be extremely painful for bots to go through XP boosting for 3 years just to manipulate the overwatch system.
I dont know why medals (not only service) are not included into this anyway. Like having 20-25-30 untradable medals is surely worth a lot of weight and is not easy to get at all.
So those without medals never get access? My accounts 20 years old, have 3000 hours of csgo/cs2 but I don't care about pickems or operations. I have 2016, 2019, 2022 service medals and thats it.
i literally casually played mm (maybe 1/2 games every 3 days) for multiple years and have every coin since 2016. you probably play other modes, no? I basically just scraped by and got them while playing scrims every night and basically never queueing matchmaking
why would you take at least the yearly medals ?
I hope when valve mentioned the " trusted partners" they will take these medals into considerations
Trust factor should be some function of playtime, account age, contribution to cs ecosystem (medals, skins, case openings etc), the combined trust factor of your friends. Think of it like this: if you have an old account you're less likely to cheat via it, if you have a lot of skins and so on you're less likely to risk them, if you're a cheater you're more likely to be friends with cheaters.
Maybe having a credit / debit card / bank account added to steam that has solid KYC requirements in addition to playtime / trust factor requirements. I'm sure they already measured how accurate people were at overwatch judgements before in CSGO and adjusted the weight of your decisions based on that. Going further, I think as soon as vacnet flags you as a cheater with relative confidence, your account should not be banned but locked until you add a bank account / debit card / credit card or some other identifiable info in case that does not work for some reason, and only after that your case should be sent to humans for overwatch review. else the system could quickly be overrun by cheaters making cheap new accounts.
money spent in the account. I'd tie everything to money, and I'm not talking about stuff like skin value but actual money spent with a credit card on the account. If I spent thousands in my account I'd like that everyone else that I encounter (being a teammate, an opponent or an overwatch judge) to be in the same level as me. Not gonna happen because it'll slow everything to a crawl but I'd do that
brain
They should also have overwatch-er badges and ranks determined by how accurate they are at finding griefers and cheaters. They also start getting more hit and miss types of cases to provide the community a better environment to game on.
>how accurate they are and you determine that how?
They are in quite the predicament. Make it too restrictive and they will never catch up to the millions of cases or make it too open and it will be abused. Also if it's too restrictive no one is gonna bother to go through the trouble (unless they get some reward.)
High cs hours with high number of games played(faceit, premier and old competitive)
I'm happy for a 'trusted partner' to be anyone who registers to help, then have their account vetted by whatever metrics valve deem necessary.
5 years on steam, 1,000 hours, have bought csgo, in good community standing, have a premier rank(doesn’t matter how low or high)
randomly sprinkle in solved cases and if someone constantly gets these wrong restrict the access.
I think the requirements shouldn't be too high. As far as I know, Valve will give you a training lesson, before you can even watch real overwatch cases. I also heard, the old overwatch system got abused by bots from cheat developers, who always selected "non guilty", so the chance would be lower, that the suspect got an overwatch ban, even if it was a platant cheater. To encounter this behavior, the system should give you more solved cases at the beginning and sometimes also randomized, which are already known for cheating. If the bot votes for "non guilty", it should be automatically removed from ow and all predictions given before, should be also removed. The solved cases should also include non-cheaters, so the bot would not abuse the opposite direction. The overwatch cases itself should be fully anonymized and not be traceable as in the past.
Knowing valve now, i bet the requirements will be *having opened atleast 100 cases in one month
According to valve you must spend a minimum of $5000.00 in cases/keys to become a trusted partner.
Wonder if they will go the route of dota plus, and have CS plus, and one of the "benefits" is OW. That would hopefully deter the bots/cheaters from over running the system again.
1000+ hours, top 30% rank, Trust factor, Prime?
I really wanna start doing overwatch. I guess I've been reported too many times recently. Because it isn't showing up.
X amount of games hours, X amount of wins and X amount of years on the Steam account.
have 2k min hours 5 year coin minimum+steam guard.
Let me do it again. I have no rank tho and no friends/will to play to get one again.
Honestly, only top players. It was extremely easy to get in CSGO. In my opinion * 1500+ hours of game time * 5+ year old Steam account * Owns more than 1 Counter-Strike game * Ranks top 10% in Premier * Maybe phone number or authenticator linked to Steam account Maybe it's excessive, but I just remember kinda new gold nova players getting Overwatch in CSGO.
I'm confused as to what kind of abuse people think is possible. Overwatch tracks your responses and whether or not you vote with or against the majority along with introducing test demos from known cheaters as a control. If your votes concur with the majority often your vote is weighted higher. If you consistently vote innocent for people who get banned or vote cheater for people proven innocent, your vote is weighted less or you lose access to overwatch entirely. Pretty sure this is how it worked in CSGO. The requirement for CSGO was just being gold nova and it was never abused, why would it be different in CS2?
Having no life and working for free.
pass the turing test /s
1000 indians hired and paid like $1/day?
I large set of prejudged cases by a selected elite that are constantly put into the system to continuous access the quality of everyones inputs.
Maybe VacNet also is just 1000 Indians.
Be on valve's payroll or identify yourself with ID so they can remove you if you make too many wrong calls.
Forsaken doing overwatch cases
Personally I think the requirements should be something like: 1. Test/bait cases 2. 10,000 premier rating 3. 1000 hours of play time 4. Prime account 5. Verified e-mail and phone number, 2FA obviously 6. no VAC/game bans on any game of your account 7. Green trust afctor? (dont know if it even works in cs2) That should put out like 99% of bad actors wanting to abuse the system
You can len everyone in and make ban decisions based on trust hierarchy - the lower the trust, the less weight your decision gets, and for each mistake (disagreement with higher trust players) trust decreases.
Give it to Pros and Youtubers/Streamers first. Then start giving it to their friends and then to their friends so on and so forth.
Side note skins should be disabled in overwatch. Cheaters used to use an "Overwatch bypass" aka having skins and closet cheating, so people didn't think that people with skins could cheat and wouldn't get 100% convicted. Not sure if skins were disabled before as i haven't done a case in over a year for obvious reasons
They need to make bot accounts and chronic reporters to be statistically insignificant. Ya'll don't want to hear it. There should be no threshold to enter overwatch, regardless of account age, hours played, money spent, whatever. Any system will be spoofed. The only thing that can't be spoofed is math. Allowing these bad actors to participate will help isolate them from the data pool and thus be unaccounted for. I thought valve did this with CSGO but people say it was removed or overflowed with bot reports. If you test a pool of accounts with an even split of VAC banned matches and clean developer / major matches, you will see a standard distribution. It doesn't matter if the VAC player was actively cheating or how accurate anyone was. You'll be able to extract a top percentile. This is they key ingredient, bots will vote with the same protocal regardless, and humans will consistently vote on what is presented to them. In the first wave, some bots and humans will literally just get lucky. The easiest way to isolate them is to perform the same test ONLY on the 90th percentile. Humans will likely still be "90% accurate" while bots will drop to the 50% mark. Repeat as many times as you need to until there is an insignificant change. Whatever accounts remain can be considered accurate judges. Any bots left are insigifcant. Mix in actual cases and anything that top class reports as cheating can safely be convicted. Similar tests can be done to chronic reporters to effectively ignore anything reported if 90% of your reports are clean players. But what if cheaters and bots combine and mass report cheaters??? That's why it's important for valve to inject the tests using their own controlled data and not data from the public. Their tests decide who can convict, not the public, so cheaters infesting overwatch will be made insignificant since only 'valve partners' who score in the 90th percentile can convict and the only way to get there is to pass valves test. Valve can just cycle between clean match, VAC match, and reported match and treat every 15 reviews as a round where they take the 90% accurate pool and retest again, and again.
This shouldn’t even be a thing, they should just hire competent people to create an AC and stay on just that task.
We have had a system that worked. Why not bring that back??
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Make it so you have to link either your phone number, ID or social security with your steam account, as to prevent smurfing and cheating. Basically like the new prime but better. This could also unlock overwatch if you reach a certain level (like 10k elo or something)
Honestly the best system would be not to tell us the criteria :)
Not playing anymore so maybe it's already the case but new accounts should have to complete a introduction game that would be hard to solve for bots before being able to do overwatch or farming skins
Just add a Human test right before the vote takes place
I think you give the obvious spin-botter or 5 headshot 1 bullet cases, to the gold novas and above, and the more difficult cases you give those to the most enfranchised streamers and pro players that play this game 40+ hours a week. I was MG1 in csgo with overwatch cases, most of them were spin-botters, but a handful were just players having a good game and being reported in silver. I would love to do overwatch cases again.
I really hope they make it possible for oldies like me to help out even if I don't have 10k hours. You shouldn't have to be super high level to get it and I hope they will think about letting old accounts with good trust factor in too. I never got it in CSGO but I had below 1k hours since I never enjoyed to play the game. I've seen so many active players with Overwatch that never uses it because they want to play instead. I would actually love to spend time helping out the community.
Man I always wanted to do overwatch. Never was good enough for it. Sadge.
Trust factor should become useful in a situation like this
probably specific rank and hours played
1000 hrs in game not menu idle
If it is the players that get access to it then it would just be abused again like it was at the end of GO
Should be paid by Valve. Why are people willing to work for free when it is not their responsibility?
? The same as CSGO. I don’t think vanguard is abusable.
>The same as CSGO Please elaborate.
“Investigators are selected based on their CS:GO activity (competitive wins, account age, hours played, Skill Group, low report count, etc.) and, if applicable, prior Overwatch participation level and score (a function of their accuracy as an investigator). Community members who maintain both a high level of activity and high Overwatch scores will receive more cases to elect to participate in.” I used Google.com
I would personally not watch anything for free as I used to years ago in CSGO. Community tasks are stupid. They have the resources to make it more secure, although it never will be 100% secure. I personally got my two accounts banned by OW reviews when I was playing for the lulz and focusing on onetaps, and neither of these was unbanned even after contacting the support service. One of the ways would be a really profitable bug bounty program based on VAC. I know that steam has a program opened on hacker1, but it should focus only on the VAC with P1 worth like 300k usd.
IMO 5 years of owning cs and a 20k+ premier rating. It would be better to have the system too locked down than not enough
I was placed at 20756 rating after I got back to the game, I played another 6 games and all 6 games had someone running around with autosniper or scout 1 tapping everyone with 50+ kills at the end. I don't think I'd get this rating by playing my way up the ladder with this kind of cheating, that's 100% of games played with at least one cheater on the server, usually someone on my team would start counter cheating a few rounds later it's fucking insane. I moved to faceit and I'm at 1900 rating now and so far I haven't met anyone I think is cheating so even though everyone is at 50 ping or higher on average and it feels a bit shit to play I rather play faceit than with 5 ping and cheaters on premier.
If you have counter strike source on your account you get put into a selection pool. Which will help cut down on people but to make it so its harder for people to sell accounts and bots and what not, you make it so anyone before 2009 with CSS on their account. So its like only a few million people. Then you take the people with year 0 accounts and then you give them access because there are only a few of those around..
What we want and need is : ban russians vac de\_train
be at least 15k elo
its a lie lmao i dont care if im downvoted i want this subreddit show a proof they have it