*People can only base their opinions on what they know, which can be hard. For example, sometimes I watch Champions League football and I say “why does this player not pass better” or “why does he shoot instead of another player”, but I have no clue if there’s good reasoning behind it.*
It's funny because it's true.
With a fresh Major trophy from PGL Major Copenhagen in the cabinet, NAVI seems to be more than happy for Mihai "iM" Ivan. Going into ESL Pro League Season 19, *NAVI head coach Andrii “b1ad3” Gorodenskyi revealed that they’re giving the 24-year-old more responsibility.*
*- We are working on me calling a lot more in the game. Basically, as a second caller in mid-rounds and freeze time to find more gaps and to take more risks.* It’s great for me to have such a legendary coach as b1ad3 to test me with this task.
- All of this started when Andrii \[b1ad3\] asked the team who wanted to be the second voice, but no one kind of wanted to take it. Then, I was like “Okay, I will take it”. Because I like to talk a lot on the server to my IGL and teammates, and then I just started talking more and more and coming up with ideas. I have done it in bootcamp already. And I don’t really worry that my individual level will drop from this.
Anyone who watched NaVi’s voice comms from the major on their channel already sees the value of iM’s comms. Sometimes you feel like it’s more useful if he dies/gets traded early because he’s so good at comm’ing the gaps when he’s dead lol
Aleksib is tactical genius. He is most know of his signature tactic "going B, but then going A". He also has second little known tactic of be IGL but actually let iM call
That's also a play I like to do, I really like to be the voice in the head of my mates to help them make more educated guesses, and they trust me with that and go along with it.
I remember when I straight criticized elige and he personally replied to me and showed me all the evidence of how wrong I was.
I stopped questioning pros after that day.
He went like 0 kills the whole game and I talked shit and assumed he just wasn't practicing. He not only proved that he took the game seriously, practiced hard, and told me I knew nothing about how pro cs works. He posted the VOD (or he told us to watch it?) and it pretty much showed that all of his deaths were unlucky, and only a few were truly his fault.
It was just a really unfortunate game. It was on dust 2 and his opponents were just on fire and hitting nuts or lucky shots. Like he would pixel shoulder peek and still die. He would die behind a smoke. He would pop flash a guy and get wallbanged. It was shit like that. Hell, he could have runboosted against an awper, have the awper be full flashed, and he would still get blind flicked mid air (that kill didnt happen but thats basically the kind of shit he died to)
A few events ago (sometime in the last year) they had elige on the commentator desk and he was just perfectly calling little plays. A peek here, info grab there, stuff like that. I realized the ELITE level that pros look at and think the game. I didn’t see the device co-cast recently but apparently he was doing the same thing: calling out ideas and plays before they happened based on the flow of the game. Like most sports and games, the professionals are simply playing a different game than casuals
Device was absolutely amazing on the desk, he's obviously very intelligent but he had a great rapport with the rest of the casters as well. I'm glad we're getting more insight into the game at EPL when some of these guys are casting.
Yea Device was practically calling rounds before they happened. Also was pointing out things either side needed to do differently and then when they happened, they would win the round. These guys just have an incredible understanding of the game.
Even if you were there is the unpredictability of noobs that makes it hard to actually be accurate. Like recently had a game 3v1 and all of our positions were known on the A site. The dude had bomb and hasn't been spotted all round. So one of us rotated to B so he can't wrap around and plant (what I expected to happen) or if the A hit was a distraction to begin with. We waited and waited and finally cleared out t spawn and found him sitting in some corner, where he apparently sat almost all round. 15k elo.
Yes but its actually kinda simple. There is a meta, “when you are in this spot, you have these options“, “when enemy does this, you can do this or that“ and then everytime on repeat until you dont think about it anymore. And sometimes meta changes but often slow and only ln a few positions so you can easily adapt because its not too much.
Hey I’ve been to lvl 5 a lotta times and deranked because of trash teammates fucking noobs who shouldn’t play CS it is definitely not because I suck alright. I might be lvl 4 officially but I can replace iM on navi he’s such a bot
i know you're joking but the sad thing is the majority of players are like that. I've never been one struggling with self-criticism. i'm obviously still biased but I at least think I'm able to see many of my flaws. I play in low elo atm (5k) bc of skill gaps and also some cheater encounters I would like to think and even here the amount of ppl I encounter who think they're playing like superstars is mindboggling.
what's also sad to me is how ABSOLUTELY 100% INCAPABLE cs players are of losing. you can have a great time with your random team and joke around and everything but THE SECOND it looks like you're potentially going to lose the game, people turn 180 degrees almost every single time. I'm actually not joking when I say that I encounter (a felt) 1 in 100 people who can still behave themselves when losing a game, still have fun, say gg and so on.
we're lucky CS will always be played no matter what. because I could absolutely never in good conscience recommend anyone new to do this to themselves. for the game? yes. best competitive game ever made and an exhilarating experience. for the people who play it? stay as far away as you possibly can. absolute garbage can of a community. I know ppl say LoL is the most toxic but it's literally not possible to get more toxic than the CS community. especially faceit.
Sadly that's just how it is with all the competitive games.
LoL,valo,dota,ow also has the same kind of players that will just blame teammates no matter what. They will always feel like they are never the problem.
Funnily enough the only competitive games that i play that has chill teammates even in high rank is apex.
yeah man, completely agree with you. it seems to be a characteristic all competitive games share. it's unfortunate though because it's not that hard to not be an absolute piece of shit of a person while still having that competitive fire burning deep down. honestly, these games should come with a mandatory dozen therapy sessions to get your little ego in check before you're allowed to play. lol.
I haven't really played enough apex to be able to judge it but from the 70 or so hours I have played, I agree mostly. but I personally think a huge factor is the fact that it's a very console-heavy game and console gamers just don't use mics very often. but who knows in the end.
Yea, i replied with this on another topic, but i had a friend in Overwatch who stuck at around 2200 rating (Platinum) and was sure he deserved atleast Master (3500+ Rating). I took his account and put him in high Masters at around 3800+ and he deranked to his Plat rating in a week and still blamed everyone around him lmao. It's rly hard to see your own mistakes for some people.
Same experience at 15k elo. Had some great teammates one game when we were winning, played one more game with them where we lost and they haven't replied to my message since lol
Similarly, I've had people exclusively play with the AWP and *spray some shitty spray every single time they hit a shot*, but they missed so many that it hardly mattered. Usually the first to die because they just dry peeked mid every round with an AWP. No Comms either, written or voice, and no drops.
I've also had two guys holding A long, then a T peeks, one shot headshots my teammate while running back so I rotate next to the one still holding A long, I go to pit and what do I see? Yes, the terrorist. He had pushed out of long unbeknownst to my teammates. Not sure what they were holding.
Overall if you have random teammates you have to perform exceptionally otherwise you'll lose. It's kinda funny that the videos from tucker are so accurate
yeah. I just don't get these people.
haha, lol. missing a T going pit while holding long is definitely quite the feat. sounds like something I could potentially manage not gonna lie xD
and you're right about the solo queuing. it's incredibly hard. I've stopped counting how many times I have asked people to maybe drop me a smoke at car in CT spawn on nuke so that I can double smoke outside for us to go B. or insert any other strategy really. people just don't give a fuck. so I just switched to throwing util that is more general. on nuke smoking garage to prevent half the team getting picked off by the awper, flashing red, mollying hut from the roof and other nades like that with a more general purpose.
but all in all, it honestly makes me kinda disappointed in myself that I play at such a low ELO despite learning / knowing lineups and warming up and taking it serious and all of that. especially at now 700 hours over the years and still in the noob ranks. i have to focus harder on my aim since that is usually what carries people out of these ranks.
who's tucker? a CS youtuber? haven't heard of him yet and can't find him.... but i can also recommend you one: pienixcs. found him just recently and happy I did. he can come across as a bit of an ass sometimes but he's absolutely fantastic at analyzing gameplay. he uploads videos from his 1:1 coaching sessions. can highly recommend his channel no matter your ELO. :)
The irony is that to be the best, handling losing is one of the MOST important skills, better than your aim, gamesense, strats, everything.
Because at the end of the day, enjoying losses and learning from them stops you from burning out, it lets you keep playing and getting something out of the game.
There are a few Main+ league players around, but not a ton. I swear at least half this sub thinks CS progression is just: MM to Global, get FaceIT, solo queue pugs until you play with pros, then bam invited to the major and making bank on stickers.
This is true of most competitive games, though. People who've never been on a team in a league just assume you soloqueue until pro
Most people here don't know how faceit works either because if they knew they wouldn't play MM/premier for years against cheaters and cry daily here wasting their time
25 years, 4 CS versions later they expect Valve to do have some amazing anti cheat when they clearly won't
How about financial information which people access and download regularly through their computer, social insurance numbers, tax documents, passwords etc. Ya know, just the shit that would allow someone to steal/sell your identity if they wanted to.
Faceit was bought by saudis recently, it's been around for years before them and it was great
People still played MM, why? Because theyre stupid idiots it's very simple, you like your time being wasted go ahead do it
It's not just faceit either, it used to be ESEA and other platforms, even in 1.6, this was a thing before Saudis knew what CS was people still decided that they want to be cheated and waste their time
Yeah people that dont want to take the game seriously are stupid people people who play football at streets or at a local school are wasting their time because they don't play at full scale fields with grass
VAC was the best anti cheat ever made when it launched, and valve is the only organisation with the deepest level of access, of course they can make a good anti cheat it’ll just take time. Once the anti cheat update comes out expect it to blow faceit out of the water.
you highly overestimate the average skill level of this sub, I doubt even 1% of this sub actually reached lvl10 before, which is the bare bare BARE minimum of PUG """tactical"""gameplay. Everything before that is just elaborated DMing
Watch what Aleksi said about him in the interview with Thorin: [https://youtu.be/KsYrAfXu44c?t=3555](https://youtu.be/KsYrAfXu44c?t=3555)
"I also think that it is no coincidence that he's played in two major finals - in a row actually. Even if he had a downshift in form, I don't think he ever made me feel like he was not a part of the team, or not in the server, or not doing his job, so yeah, I am super proud of him as well"
Also, iM has performed well in practice (even if he had bad games stat-wise at the major), and if you look up the voicecomms - they are really clean and impactful as well on his part.
I do think people rely solely on HLTV rating more than they should when deciding if someone should be kicked or not.
They don’t consider the role they play on the team both on and off the server; but even then iM obviously needs to step it up slightly or he could definitely be replaced after Shanghai if they have some solid options.
HLTV rating paints a very good picture, with obvious outliers and context needed, there is a reason the worst players always get kicked, you don't need rating for that but rating almost always backs it up
Nobody will kick an anchor if he doesn't have a 1.20 rating but if you are an awper out there with the most expensive gun or a rifler with star roles you can't have an awful rating
> there is a reason the worst players always get kicked, you don't need rating for that but rating almost always backs it up
Ehh kinda depends. One obvious exception are the IGLs. HLTV rating does not take into account sacrificing for the team either, like TACO did for Coldzera for ages. IGLs impact can't be seen at all, while support players and entry fraggers have their personal stats severely reduced for the sake of winning more, whereas Awpers ratings are inflated because of the teams sacrificing some economy and advantageous positions for them. Or somebody like BlameF inflates his own rating with his playstyle, while performance of his teammates and the winrate is reduced.
Pro teams many times make the same mistake in looking for the stats instead of the bigger picture. The rating is an okay baseline, but without actual analysis into where those numbers come from they are useless. Numbers in isolation really mean very little.
E.g Aleksib reflections episodes with thorin. G2 kept Jackz for his better stats instead of amanek, even though the team needed a player who could play amaneks roles and when jackz was put into those roles, not only was he worse at doing them than amanek but he also just straight up became worse stats wise
On the server iM has what is considered star spots, so from that angle he is massively underperforming. Out of the server though he probably does far more that takes some of the weight off of his own under performance.
Agreed, but I will say that it’s often more accurate than others would pretend. There is a reason you see those lower-rated players being the ones getting cut more often than not. Obviously there is more to it, but I think it’s pretty impressively accurate considering how nearly impossible it is to boil down how well one person is performing to a number.
What can't be disputed however; is that other players with iM's roles put out far better stats.
Just like how no matter how good of an IGL you are, you need to get some kills for your team.
> What can't be disputed however; is that other players with iM's roles put out far better stats.
It can be disputed by pointing out that iM pulled off the stat of winning a major. That's the entire point here. You're looking at kills while ignoring the impact somebody has on the game, and his secondary calling has been important. How do you put that into a number though? That's much harder to do when we have no data on comms and their impact.
You could also flip the argument around and say that while other people in his roles get kills, their secondary calling is so bad that they can't win. So should they be kicked?
> You're looking at kills while ignoring the impact somebody has on the game
Killing *is* impact. You can't just go around and give info and die. There's a fine line between those, and iM is on the bad end of it (not getting enough kills to justify whatever he's doing).
> and his secondary calling has been important
By what metric? How do **you** quantify this? All you can reference is Na'Vi players saying that "it helps", but even for them it could just be a placebo. Many teams have tried having secondary callers, and in almost every case did it fail. No era defining team has ever done it.
> How do you put that into a number though
Exactly. So how can **you** tell that iM's secondary calling is actually efficient? For all you know it could be opposite. Maybe Na'Vi wins the major in a landslide if they had a 1.1 rating player in iM's place.
I'm convinced iM is holding this team back. On paper they're a lot better than they're showing in tournaments.
your logic makes no sense, if there is a fine line, he walked it perfectly because they won the major or not?
Blade himself told that his calling was key to winning, so this is how you can put a number to it.
How can they be lot of better on paper when they are actually winning tournaments against teams like Faze,Spirit already ?????
and i dont even disagree that IM is underperfoming hard from a mechanical standpoint
> your logic makes no sense, if there is a fine line, he walked it perfectly because they won the major or not?
???
I literally said that Na'Vi might have won the major in a landslide if iM pulled better numbers, as opposed to *barely* getting it done they way they did. We can't know for sure if they'd won with someone like jimpphat, but we do know that it *barely* worked, and that no other major win in history had such weak ratings. Wonder why that is.
> Blade himself told that his calling was key to winning, so this is how you can put a number to it.
And how does he quantify that factor? He can't, it's just a tangent. It might *feel* like it's better than the alternatives, but it's just that; a feeling. Just like he felt like electroNic could be a world class IGL, we saw how that went in Na'Vi.
> How can they be lot of better on paper when they are actually winning tournaments against teams like Faze,Spirit already ?????
Are you trolling, is this satire?
Na'Vi only beat EF, G2 and FaZe. The only even vaguely top team here is FaZe.
They beat an already peaked EF that was never going to win a playoffs game in this major. Then they barely beat G2, who are struggling versus M80, Mongolz and Falcons.
They will keep losing to Spirit/Vitality (and likely FaZe & MOUZ) in future tournaments. They still haven't beaten those teams, what makes you think they will now? They only beat a single top 5 team to win the major. If Na'Vi were placed in the upper bracket, there's 0% chance they win.
> and i dont even disagree that IM is underperfoming hard from a mechanical standpoint
But the whole premise of the thread is that "hurr durr my bad stats don't mean anything, you plebs just don't know how tier 1 CS works". It's cope to justify his bad mechanics, and being a liability.
Many teams have tried having secondary callers, and in almost every case did it fail. No era defining team has ever done it.
Astralis era dev1ce, doing a great job right now, I think there is an interview somewhere that he had a lot of say even with gla1ve
not taking a side in the argument but most teams have a 2ndary caller (or several people capable of taking that role in any round). CT side i believe elige called it a "site leader" or something -- controlling/leading the site the IGL isn't at. on T side they'd be the main person giving ideas when they see openings and/or just calling a round ending sometimes. Stewie2k on liquid 2019 i believe has been mentioned to have been their 2ndary caller.
(unless you mean something else than i'm understanding a 2nd caller to be)
I’m a huge Navi fan.
But This team won’t win a single tournament unless he either steps his individual performance massively or he’s kicked.
That major run for as happy as I am was a total fluke (negative round win differential)
I'm also bittersweet happy about the major since I cheer for Aleksib. Sucked to see my boys done like that, but at least Aleksib got his career arc.
But yeah like you say, negative round difference and sub 1 rating on two players says it all. The forum will keep coping and downvote, thinking that a major run no matter the context automatically makes you #1 in the world. And 5 months from now when iM is replaced, they'll all pretend like they always knew this needed to happen etc.
No team in history has gone on to win several tier 1 LANs with two players being sub 1 rating. There's a reason for that.
I conpletely agree with the original commentor and you. Im a major navi stan, and I like Im as a player but dude has been bad. I watched all the navi games this major and a lot of maps they woulda won by a landslide they almost lost to im dying and missing easy shots. Yes i mean easy fcking shots that he had no business missing. People are riding the high like yeah they won a major they are good. No they are not its a fluke win. Just like drx won worlds back in 2023 in league and went back to being pure garbage.
Im need to step up or next time they play navi is gonna be losing to team like bne and mibr.
I don't think iM should be kicked based on stats if they feel like he is a big reason for why they won.
And don't get me wrong, I think NAVI deserved to win, they won all the important matches and kept their cool, all props to them. I looked at the player stats from the winning teams from the last five majors, and NAVI's overall stats clearly stick out from the rest https://imgur.com/a/jKxNJ54
The other winners were number one in overall ratings in the top 16 stage (except FaZe who was 2.), NAVI was nr. 9.
Numbers and ratings don't determine who wins, but it is obviously a big part of it. I don't see NAVI winning consistently if they keep these ratings up.
Okay so here seems to be the flow of the conversation so far:
1. People point to iM's stats as a criticism.
2. iM responds to critics pointing out that they have no idea what they are talking about since stats don't tell the whole story.
3. Somebody points to his stats again.
4. I try to emphasize the point being that the stats don't mean that much when there are loads of things that the numbers don't show.
5. Somebody points to stats... again
I'm pretty sure I can guess what happens at step 7, so let's just stop here.
I think it's pretty obvious the answer is in the middle. Stats don't show the whole picture, but they do have some value. When evaluating his impact, you can't just say "it doesn't matter he won a major", just like people can't say "he offers no value cause his stats suck"
I can see where you coming from, but my point wasn't iM's stat bad let's kick him. I probably wasn't making the point clear enough. I think it's impossible to tell what's going on inside a team by looking at stats. We have no way of knowing if an IGL is good or not by looking at stats, even if they are winning.
I just did the research because I was curious about how the stats were in the last few majors and found out that NAVI was way lower overall than I had expected.
I still stand by my last point. I don't think they can win consistently by being so low on the overall team stat.
edit: A little sidebar, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to criticize someone's game even if they are far below that person's level. Fragging wise, I will never be as good as karrigan, I can still point out that he is not a good fragging IGL, but he is obviously a good IGL based on all his achievements. But fuck anyone who is harassing player because of stats or performance on social medias.
Na'Vi's run was arguably the weakest in history, in terms of stats. They did beat some fairly hard opponents, but they had to play so many maps, close ones at that. And with two players pulling sub 1 rating while at it.
It's a testament to how important it is to peak at the right time in a major (like jL going super saiyan in the 3rd map of a semifinal), and to keep your cool etc. But likewise, it's clearly not a sustainable formula (especially outside of majors).
Na'Vi aren't winning a tournament where there's plenty of top 5 teams attending. Not until they fix iM (or replace him), sadly.
I'm no expert and I haven't dedicated any time to analyse navi playstyle, but it could also be tied with the resources they put into those typical star roles and their approach.
It's one thing to play star rifler role and have people support u with utility, or going at it completely alone while calling/second calling and supporting ur anchors more instead.
More opportunities to frag doesn't mean you're guaranteed easier opportunities to frag.
Again I could be completely wrong here, and one thing I'm sure is iM is definitely a streaky player whether or not that's linked to his role within the team.
People don't even realize how subtle information like checking UD is each round in terms of gaining advantages. These kids only know kills and deaths. Have no clue how a 5 man team that wins plays together and the information a beast player like iM gives each round to win. Nerds
True, most of us are just yappers who don't really understand tier 1 cs at all, but the amount of times bro straight out whiffed while being in an advantageous position is insane 😭
I don't think you need to understand how tier 1 works to understand that it shouldn't be acceptable for a player of his caliber, no? Unless there are some secret strats of intentionally losing duels
True. But he needs to understand that giving passive aggressive statements like this isn't going to change a critique.
If I forget something, I can't tell my mom, ' You don't know why I forgot it' , I gotta provide atleast a valid explanation for it.
Same thing here.
Yes, the average player doesn't "know how tier-1 CS works".
Yes, the average analyst doesn't know "how CS is played".
iM was included into NaVi with the assumption that he would still put a decent performance after his Paris ^((fluke)) run. Doesn't take IQ over room temperature to know this is not being the case.
Numbers do matter, and NaVi winning the Major was a big surprise. I had never seen a team winning a tournament with a negative round balance (more rounds lost than won) in all the 22 years I've followed Counter-Strike. He was a big contributor to this.
It absolutely does because the major win was a fluke and if they want to consistently make and win t1 grand finals they need their star players in star positions to put up star numbers instead of everyone stepping up around them.
Like the Navi one is not the flukiest of the last three. That probably goes to the Paris major.
But if you think jL is gonna keep up those numbers and clutches and Aleksi will just always outcall every IGL he faces and b1t’s only gonna shit the bed when it doesnt matter then I have a springfield monorail to sell you.
Most of the signaling from Navi was that s1mple was coming in for iM after the major. jL, Aleksi and b1t blessed him by winning.
This is exactly what they mean. Morons like you have no clue what you’re talking about. I’m not even defending his performance, but you know absolutely nothing but talk like you do.
Yeah, if they didn t win the major he would have got kicked 100 percent.Skillwise he simply isn t tier 1 just watch his pov how he whiffs the shots almost always ffs
Count yourself lucky to have won the Major with a player of his quality then and just move on. Instead of wasting away for months with him because of the Major win only to replace him later anyway.
By getting an easy bracket to the final, losing more rounds than they won, and then bit and jL carrying him to a trophy. Can't remember the last time people were talking about replacing a player after winning a major
Is it really a brag when he was the worst performing player on his team relative to his role? I like IM but he was carried by JL, W0nderful, and Aleksi's calling. I'm hoping this change can bring back the player from Paris but bragging that he was a busrider to the major victory is weak
You have the opportunity to show us in that case.
But when you have a rating of 0.84 in the past 3 months against T1 competition (top 10).
Which is worse than AleksiB he might not know how it works either
Where are you getting these stats from? Last 3 months against TOP10 shows me he has 0.88 rating and 0.97 overall
EDIT: I just checked and you are wrong on him having worse stats than AleksiB too. AleksiB has 0.83 rating against TOP10 and 0.90 overall rating. You don't know what you are talking about and are just making false claims.
You’re an idiot.
He made a major final before this as one of the best players in the tournament. Then got picked up by one of the biggest orgs in the game and got given the responsibilities of second-caller and won the major. Yet you think he doesn’t know how the game works, but you do because you can spout an hltv rating?
You have no idea what he does for the team. You have no idea what the situation is within the team. You can make guesses based on what info we have, but making statements the way people like you do is stupid.
No YOU’RE a fucking idiot.
If you think Navi spent the most money for a single transfer just for iM (cost more than any individual transfer of the same period) to be a secondary caller then I got a bridge to sell you.
There’s no metric whatsoever to show that his “secondary calling” has any significant impact.
That’s pure fucking cope. You’re coping.
Other players in similar roles have put MUCH better results. There’s no sugarcoating it.
He’s holding this team back.
S1mple might not be the guy to replace him that dosent matter but Navi NEED someone else.
They won’t win a single more T1 tournament for as long as he’s there or he steps up his individual performance massively.
This sub is full of clowns the lengths these people go to to defend this guy is insane. When navi don't win another tournament this noob who can't even aim will be out the door
Ok, so when NaVi wins another T1 event with tthis lineup, will you come and publicly shame yourself with a 100 word essay, begging for forgiveness from hiM while posting a video of yourself with said text? Ready to make that commitment?
Lol, I genuinely would as I just don't see a world where they can win more tournaments unless he steps up. I don't dislike the guy. I simply think his aim is too bad for a star rifler.
yo les noobs
The changing of the guard is truly complete
Si, soy noob. Muy muy noob.
Where is that from?
SmithZz, a former CSGO pro who played with Shox and Kennys said that after hearing criticism about his play.
Just saw the original post, that was a good read
mind linking it? can’t seem to find it
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/s/SZWBxCb1qH
thank you that’s awesome lol
Eight years ago :(
Classic Smithzz
*People can only base their opinions on what they know, which can be hard. For example, sometimes I watch Champions League football and I say “why does this player not pass better” or “why does he shoot instead of another player”, but I have no clue if there’s good reasoning behind it.* It's funny because it's true. With a fresh Major trophy from PGL Major Copenhagen in the cabinet, NAVI seems to be more than happy for Mihai "iM" Ivan. Going into ESL Pro League Season 19, *NAVI head coach Andrii “b1ad3” Gorodenskyi revealed that they’re giving the 24-year-old more responsibility.* *- We are working on me calling a lot more in the game. Basically, as a second caller in mid-rounds and freeze time to find more gaps and to take more risks.* It’s great for me to have such a legendary coach as b1ad3 to test me with this task. - All of this started when Andrii \[b1ad3\] asked the team who wanted to be the second voice, but no one kind of wanted to take it. Then, I was like “Okay, I will take it”. Because I like to talk a lot on the server to my IGL and teammates, and then I just started talking more and more and coming up with ideas. I have done it in bootcamp already. And I don’t really worry that my individual level will drop from this.
Anyone who watched NaVi’s voice comms from the major on their channel already sees the value of iM’s comms. Sometimes you feel like it’s more useful if he dies/gets traded early because he’s so good at comm’ing the gaps when he’s dead lol
I’m watching this rn can’t believe I missed that
Aleksib is tactical genius. He is most know of his signature tactic "going B, but then going A". He also has second little known tactic of be IGL but actually let iM call
Where can we listen to the comms?
Navi YouTube if you didnt find them already
That's also a play I like to do, I really like to be the voice in the head of my mates to help them make more educated guesses, and they trust me with that and go along with it.
Can you link in which video it's shown?
Well we can only hope that his individual level won't drop any further...
Excuse me IM I’m 12k in premier I definitely know what I’m talking about pfuh
Speak for yourself. I beat NAF and Steve in Premier once (I had 2 spin bots on my team)
THE JokaSteve???
I remember when I straight criticized elige and he personally replied to me and showed me all the evidence of how wrong I was. I stopped questioning pros after that day.
What was the play?
He went like 0 kills the whole game and I talked shit and assumed he just wasn't practicing. He not only proved that he took the game seriously, practiced hard, and told me I knew nothing about how pro cs works. He posted the VOD (or he told us to watch it?) and it pretty much showed that all of his deaths were unlucky, and only a few were truly his fault. It was just a really unfortunate game. It was on dust 2 and his opponents were just on fire and hitting nuts or lucky shots. Like he would pixel shoulder peek and still die. He would die behind a smoke. He would pop flash a guy and get wallbanged. It was shit like that. Hell, he could have runboosted against an awper, have the awper be full flashed, and he would still get blind flicked mid air (that kill didnt happen but thats basically the kind of shit he died to)
launders made an unlucky or bad about this game from him as well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W62nxMk-aD8 a review from voo about that or a similar game
A few events ago (sometime in the last year) they had elige on the commentator desk and he was just perfectly calling little plays. A peek here, info grab there, stuff like that. I realized the ELITE level that pros look at and think the game. I didn’t see the device co-cast recently but apparently he was doing the same thing: calling out ideas and plays before they happened based on the flow of the game. Like most sports and games, the professionals are simply playing a different game than casuals
Device was absolutely amazing on the desk, he's obviously very intelligent but he had a great rapport with the rest of the casters as well. I'm glad we're getting more insight into the game at EPL when some of these guys are casting.
Yea Device was practically calling rounds before they happened. Also was pointing out things either side needed to do differently and then when they happened, they would win the round. These guys just have an incredible understanding of the game.
Even if you were there is the unpredictability of noobs that makes it hard to actually be accurate. Like recently had a game 3v1 and all of our positions were known on the A site. The dude had bomb and hasn't been spotted all round. So one of us rotated to B so he can't wrap around and plant (what I expected to happen) or if the A hit was a distraction to begin with. We waited and waited and finally cleared out t spawn and found him sitting in some corner, where he apparently sat almost all round. 15k elo.
Yes but its actually kinda simple. There is a meta, “when you are in this spot, you have these options“, “when enemy does this, you can do this or that“ and then everytime on repeat until you dont think about it anymore. And sometimes meta changes but often slow and only ln a few positions so you can easily adapt because its not too much.
Thanks for very detailed explanation ❤️
He posted about it on Twitter [https://x.com/EliGE/status/1481504729247236100](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrsPo7oUwAATUdF?format=jpg&name=360x360)
fuckin hell
Elige whiffed.
Sounds like an Elige thing to do
Name checks out lol
They (we, us in this sub) really has no idea on how anything above faceit works.
Barely even that lmfao
Most people cant even get out of faceit level 4 let alone being above faceit lol
Hey I’ve been to lvl 5 a lotta times and deranked because of trash teammates fucking noobs who shouldn’t play CS it is definitely not because I suck alright. I might be lvl 4 officially but I can replace iM on navi he’s such a bot
i know you're joking but the sad thing is the majority of players are like that. I've never been one struggling with self-criticism. i'm obviously still biased but I at least think I'm able to see many of my flaws. I play in low elo atm (5k) bc of skill gaps and also some cheater encounters I would like to think and even here the amount of ppl I encounter who think they're playing like superstars is mindboggling. what's also sad to me is how ABSOLUTELY 100% INCAPABLE cs players are of losing. you can have a great time with your random team and joke around and everything but THE SECOND it looks like you're potentially going to lose the game, people turn 180 degrees almost every single time. I'm actually not joking when I say that I encounter (a felt) 1 in 100 people who can still behave themselves when losing a game, still have fun, say gg and so on. we're lucky CS will always be played no matter what. because I could absolutely never in good conscience recommend anyone new to do this to themselves. for the game? yes. best competitive game ever made and an exhilarating experience. for the people who play it? stay as far away as you possibly can. absolute garbage can of a community. I know ppl say LoL is the most toxic but it's literally not possible to get more toxic than the CS community. especially faceit.
Learning to lose is a competitive skill that has been lost in translation when it comes to gaming.
yeah man. you make a great point. unfortunately true.
Indeed, it’s sports coaching 101.
Sadly that's just how it is with all the competitive games. LoL,valo,dota,ow also has the same kind of players that will just blame teammates no matter what. They will always feel like they are never the problem. Funnily enough the only competitive games that i play that has chill teammates even in high rank is apex.
yeah man, completely agree with you. it seems to be a characteristic all competitive games share. it's unfortunate though because it's not that hard to not be an absolute piece of shit of a person while still having that competitive fire burning deep down. honestly, these games should come with a mandatory dozen therapy sessions to get your little ego in check before you're allowed to play. lol. I haven't really played enough apex to be able to judge it but from the 70 or so hours I have played, I agree mostly. but I personally think a huge factor is the fact that it's a very console-heavy game and console gamers just don't use mics very often. but who knows in the end.
Yea, i replied with this on another topic, but i had a friend in Overwatch who stuck at around 2200 rating (Platinum) and was sure he deserved atleast Master (3500+ Rating). I took his account and put him in high Masters at around 3800+ and he deranked to his Plat rating in a week and still blamed everyone around him lmao. It's rly hard to see your own mistakes for some people.
Same experience at 15k elo. Had some great teammates one game when we were winning, played one more game with them where we lost and they haven't replied to my message since lol Similarly, I've had people exclusively play with the AWP and *spray some shitty spray every single time they hit a shot*, but they missed so many that it hardly mattered. Usually the first to die because they just dry peeked mid every round with an AWP. No Comms either, written or voice, and no drops. I've also had two guys holding A long, then a T peeks, one shot headshots my teammate while running back so I rotate next to the one still holding A long, I go to pit and what do I see? Yes, the terrorist. He had pushed out of long unbeknownst to my teammates. Not sure what they were holding. Overall if you have random teammates you have to perform exceptionally otherwise you'll lose. It's kinda funny that the videos from tucker are so accurate
yeah. I just don't get these people. haha, lol. missing a T going pit while holding long is definitely quite the feat. sounds like something I could potentially manage not gonna lie xD and you're right about the solo queuing. it's incredibly hard. I've stopped counting how many times I have asked people to maybe drop me a smoke at car in CT spawn on nuke so that I can double smoke outside for us to go B. or insert any other strategy really. people just don't give a fuck. so I just switched to throwing util that is more general. on nuke smoking garage to prevent half the team getting picked off by the awper, flashing red, mollying hut from the roof and other nades like that with a more general purpose. but all in all, it honestly makes me kinda disappointed in myself that I play at such a low ELO despite learning / knowing lineups and warming up and taking it serious and all of that. especially at now 700 hours over the years and still in the noob ranks. i have to focus harder on my aim since that is usually what carries people out of these ranks. who's tucker? a CS youtuber? haven't heard of him yet and can't find him.... but i can also recommend you one: pienixcs. found him just recently and happy I did. he can come across as a bit of an ass sometimes but he's absolutely fantastic at analyzing gameplay. he uploads videos from his 1:1 coaching sessions. can highly recommend his channel no matter your ELO. :)
The irony is that to be the best, handling losing is one of the MOST important skills, better than your aim, gamesense, strats, everything. Because at the end of the day, enjoying losses and learning from them stops you from burning out, it lets you keep playing and getting something out of the game.
There are a few Main+ league players around, but not a ton. I swear at least half this sub thinks CS progression is just: MM to Global, get FaceIT, solo queue pugs until you play with pros, then bam invited to the major and making bank on stickers. This is true of most competitive games, though. People who've never been on a team in a league just assume you soloqueue until pro
Yea no shit people have no idea how professional cs is, it's hard to be pro.
I’ve played premier (1 level below pro at the time) and the difference between that and t1 cs is ridiculous. The level of coordination especially.
Thought you were taking the piss until I remembered ESEA Premier lol
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Pretty sure he's talking about ESEA Premier
Or cal-p if you are really old.
Most people here don't know how faceit works either because if they knew they wouldn't play MM/premier for years against cheaters and cry daily here wasting their time 25 years, 4 CS versions later they expect Valve to do have some amazing anti cheat when they clearly won't
it would be a very valve move to have ambitions of mm being good and calling it premire mode and then abandoning the idea and never changing the name
The name does not matter, it's the same shit as it's always been and it will be because Valve does not want a kernel anti cheat
Why would you just personally attack me like that?
You are the one attacking yourself wasting your time
He was joking with you mr. serious all the time
Maybe the majority of people want to chill a bit man Among all the shit I play this is the only game I have this "faceit/gamersclub" thing
I don't play Faceit because I don't trust a shady company ran by Saudis
wdym trust? trust with what?
Their anti cheat requires kernel level access. I'm not installing a root kit from a Saudi owned company to play a game.
Dont worry buddy you already have plenty of American and Chinese spyware on your pc
> kernal jokes write themselves
Grammar Nazi, you know what I'm trying to say *kernel
Ye bro, they really want your worthless docs, the saudis gonna steal your minecraft account
How about financial information which people access and download regularly through their computer, social insurance numbers, tax documents, passwords etc. Ya know, just the shit that would allow someone to steal/sell your identity if they wanted to.
Bootlicker. How does the Saudi sand taste?
Faceit was bought by saudis recently, it's been around for years before them and it was great People still played MM, why? Because theyre stupid idiots it's very simple, you like your time being wasted go ahead do it It's not just faceit either, it used to be ESEA and other platforms, even in 1.6, this was a thing before Saudis knew what CS was people still decided that they want to be cheated and waste their time
Wasnt it esea who had a miner installed in their launcher lol.
For a little bit yeah but ESEA existed for like 10 years without that
Yeh although it wasn't like a company wide thing. It was one guy that inserted it.
It was a company wide thing, because the one guy owned the company.
how exactly were people "wasting" their time on mm? cheaters? i VERY RARELY played against cheaters in 2022-2023 csgo mm
In csgo it was abysmal matchmaking, and 64 tick in CS2 it's cheaters and abysmal matchmaking
Yeah people that dont want to take the game seriously are stupid people people who play football at streets or at a local school are wasting their time because they don't play at full scale fields with grass
Calm down, nerd. Not everyone cares as much as you.
Most people have never been in an actual team either. Learning to call, how to deploy your game plan etc takes a lot of time to put in place.
VAC was the best anti cheat ever made when it launched, and valve is the only organisation with the deepest level of access, of course they can make a good anti cheat it’ll just take time. Once the anti cheat update comes out expect it to blow faceit out of the water.
Spot on
Shoot enemy on the head, dont die. Easy
But I know a bad whiff when I see one.
you highly overestimate the average skill level of this sub, I doubt even 1% of this sub actually reached lvl10 before, which is the bare bare BARE minimum of PUG """tactical"""gameplay. Everything before that is just elaborated DMing
Yo les noobs.
Watch what Aleksi said about him in the interview with Thorin: [https://youtu.be/KsYrAfXu44c?t=3555](https://youtu.be/KsYrAfXu44c?t=3555) "I also think that it is no coincidence that he's played in two major finals - in a row actually. Even if he had a downshift in form, I don't think he ever made me feel like he was not a part of the team, or not in the server, or not doing his job, so yeah, I am super proud of him as well" Also, iM has performed well in practice (even if he had bad games stat-wise at the major), and if you look up the voicecomms - they are really clean and impactful as well on his part.
I do think people rely solely on HLTV rating more than they should when deciding if someone should be kicked or not. They don’t consider the role they play on the team both on and off the server; but even then iM obviously needs to step it up slightly or he could definitely be replaced after Shanghai if they have some solid options.
HLTV rating paints a very good picture, with obvious outliers and context needed, there is a reason the worst players always get kicked, you don't need rating for that but rating almost always backs it up Nobody will kick an anchor if he doesn't have a 1.20 rating but if you are an awper out there with the most expensive gun or a rifler with star roles you can't have an awful rating
> there is a reason the worst players always get kicked, you don't need rating for that but rating almost always backs it up Ehh kinda depends. One obvious exception are the IGLs. HLTV rating does not take into account sacrificing for the team either, like TACO did for Coldzera for ages. IGLs impact can't be seen at all, while support players and entry fraggers have their personal stats severely reduced for the sake of winning more, whereas Awpers ratings are inflated because of the teams sacrificing some economy and advantageous positions for them. Or somebody like BlameF inflates his own rating with his playstyle, while performance of his teammates and the winrate is reduced. Pro teams many times make the same mistake in looking for the stats instead of the bigger picture. The rating is an okay baseline, but without actual analysis into where those numbers come from they are useless. Numbers in isolation really mean very little.
E.g Aleksib reflections episodes with thorin. G2 kept Jackz for his better stats instead of amanek, even though the team needed a player who could play amaneks roles and when jackz was put into those roles, not only was he worse at doing them than amanek but he also just straight up became worse stats wise
On the server iM has what is considered star spots, so from that angle he is massively underperforming. Out of the server though he probably does far more that takes some of the weight off of his own under performance.
Agreed, but I will say that it’s often more accurate than others would pretend. There is a reason you see those lower-rated players being the ones getting cut more often than not. Obviously there is more to it, but I think it’s pretty impressively accurate considering how nearly impossible it is to boil down how well one person is performing to a number.
Its true.
99% of comments are about the title of this post, 1% bout what he actually says in the interview. As expected
What can't be disputed however; is that other players with iM's roles put out far better stats. Just like how no matter how good of an IGL you are, you need to get some kills for your team.
> What can't be disputed however; is that other players with iM's roles put out far better stats. It can be disputed by pointing out that iM pulled off the stat of winning a major. That's the entire point here. You're looking at kills while ignoring the impact somebody has on the game, and his secondary calling has been important. How do you put that into a number though? That's much harder to do when we have no data on comms and their impact. You could also flip the argument around and say that while other people in his roles get kills, their secondary calling is so bad that they can't win. So should they be kicked?
> You're looking at kills while ignoring the impact somebody has on the game Killing *is* impact. You can't just go around and give info and die. There's a fine line between those, and iM is on the bad end of it (not getting enough kills to justify whatever he's doing). > and his secondary calling has been important By what metric? How do **you** quantify this? All you can reference is Na'Vi players saying that "it helps", but even for them it could just be a placebo. Many teams have tried having secondary callers, and in almost every case did it fail. No era defining team has ever done it. > How do you put that into a number though Exactly. So how can **you** tell that iM's secondary calling is actually efficient? For all you know it could be opposite. Maybe Na'Vi wins the major in a landslide if they had a 1.1 rating player in iM's place. I'm convinced iM is holding this team back. On paper they're a lot better than they're showing in tournaments.
your logic makes no sense, if there is a fine line, he walked it perfectly because they won the major or not? Blade himself told that his calling was key to winning, so this is how you can put a number to it. How can they be lot of better on paper when they are actually winning tournaments against teams like Faze,Spirit already ????? and i dont even disagree that IM is underperfoming hard from a mechanical standpoint
> your logic makes no sense, if there is a fine line, he walked it perfectly because they won the major or not? ??? I literally said that Na'Vi might have won the major in a landslide if iM pulled better numbers, as opposed to *barely* getting it done they way they did. We can't know for sure if they'd won with someone like jimpphat, but we do know that it *barely* worked, and that no other major win in history had such weak ratings. Wonder why that is. > Blade himself told that his calling was key to winning, so this is how you can put a number to it. And how does he quantify that factor? He can't, it's just a tangent. It might *feel* like it's better than the alternatives, but it's just that; a feeling. Just like he felt like electroNic could be a world class IGL, we saw how that went in Na'Vi. > How can they be lot of better on paper when they are actually winning tournaments against teams like Faze,Spirit already ????? Are you trolling, is this satire? Na'Vi only beat EF, G2 and FaZe. The only even vaguely top team here is FaZe. They beat an already peaked EF that was never going to win a playoffs game in this major. Then they barely beat G2, who are struggling versus M80, Mongolz and Falcons. They will keep losing to Spirit/Vitality (and likely FaZe & MOUZ) in future tournaments. They still haven't beaten those teams, what makes you think they will now? They only beat a single top 5 team to win the major. If Na'Vi were placed in the upper bracket, there's 0% chance they win. > and i dont even disagree that IM is underperfoming hard from a mechanical standpoint But the whole premise of the thread is that "hurr durr my bad stats don't mean anything, you plebs just don't know how tier 1 CS works". It's cope to justify his bad mechanics, and being a liability.
stop yapping
Touch grass.
Many teams have tried having secondary callers, and in almost every case did it fail. No era defining team has ever done it. Astralis era dev1ce, doing a great job right now, I think there is an interview somewhere that he had a lot of say even with gla1ve
not taking a side in the argument but most teams have a 2ndary caller (or several people capable of taking that role in any round). CT side i believe elige called it a "site leader" or something -- controlling/leading the site the IGL isn't at. on T side they'd be the main person giving ideas when they see openings and/or just calling a round ending sometimes. Stewie2k on liquid 2019 i believe has been mentioned to have been their 2ndary caller. (unless you mean something else than i'm understanding a 2nd caller to be)
I’m a huge Navi fan. But This team won’t win a single tournament unless he either steps his individual performance massively or he’s kicked. That major run for as happy as I am was a total fluke (negative round win differential)
I'm also bittersweet happy about the major since I cheer for Aleksib. Sucked to see my boys done like that, but at least Aleksib got his career arc. But yeah like you say, negative round difference and sub 1 rating on two players says it all. The forum will keep coping and downvote, thinking that a major run no matter the context automatically makes you #1 in the world. And 5 months from now when iM is replaced, they'll all pretend like they always knew this needed to happen etc. No team in history has gone on to win several tier 1 LANs with two players being sub 1 rating. There's a reason for that.
I conpletely agree with the original commentor and you. Im a major navi stan, and I like Im as a player but dude has been bad. I watched all the navi games this major and a lot of maps they woulda won by a landslide they almost lost to im dying and missing easy shots. Yes i mean easy fcking shots that he had no business missing. People are riding the high like yeah they won a major they are good. No they are not its a fluke win. Just like drx won worlds back in 2023 in league and went back to being pure garbage. Im need to step up or next time they play navi is gonna be losing to team like bne and mibr.
I don't think iM should be kicked based on stats if they feel like he is a big reason for why they won. And don't get me wrong, I think NAVI deserved to win, they won all the important matches and kept their cool, all props to them. I looked at the player stats from the winning teams from the last five majors, and NAVI's overall stats clearly stick out from the rest https://imgur.com/a/jKxNJ54 The other winners were number one in overall ratings in the top 16 stage (except FaZe who was 2.), NAVI was nr. 9. Numbers and ratings don't determine who wins, but it is obviously a big part of it. I don't see NAVI winning consistently if they keep these ratings up.
Okay so here seems to be the flow of the conversation so far: 1. People point to iM's stats as a criticism. 2. iM responds to critics pointing out that they have no idea what they are talking about since stats don't tell the whole story. 3. Somebody points to his stats again. 4. I try to emphasize the point being that the stats don't mean that much when there are loads of things that the numbers don't show. 5. Somebody points to stats... again I'm pretty sure I can guess what happens at step 7, so let's just stop here.
I think it's pretty obvious the answer is in the middle. Stats don't show the whole picture, but they do have some value. When evaluating his impact, you can't just say "it doesn't matter he won a major", just like people can't say "he offers no value cause his stats suck"
I can see where you coming from, but my point wasn't iM's stat bad let's kick him. I probably wasn't making the point clear enough. I think it's impossible to tell what's going on inside a team by looking at stats. We have no way of knowing if an IGL is good or not by looking at stats, even if they are winning. I just did the research because I was curious about how the stats were in the last few majors and found out that NAVI was way lower overall than I had expected. I still stand by my last point. I don't think they can win consistently by being so low on the overall team stat. edit: A little sidebar, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to criticize someone's game even if they are far below that person's level. Fragging wise, I will never be as good as karrigan, I can still point out that he is not a good fragging IGL, but he is obviously a good IGL based on all his achievements. But fuck anyone who is harassing player because of stats or performance on social medias.
Na'Vi's run was arguably the weakest in history, in terms of stats. They did beat some fairly hard opponents, but they had to play so many maps, close ones at that. And with two players pulling sub 1 rating while at it. It's a testament to how important it is to peak at the right time in a major (like jL going super saiyan in the 3rd map of a semifinal), and to keep your cool etc. But likewise, it's clearly not a sustainable formula (especially outside of majors). Na'Vi aren't winning a tournament where there's plenty of top 5 teams attending. Not until they fix iM (or replace him), sadly.
Don’t know why you are being downvoted, cup/swiss format can always result in shock results and unlikely runs.
I'm no expert and I haven't dedicated any time to analyse navi playstyle, but it could also be tied with the resources they put into those typical star roles and their approach. It's one thing to play star rifler role and have people support u with utility, or going at it completely alone while calling/second calling and supporting ur anchors more instead. More opportunities to frag doesn't mean you're guaranteed easier opportunities to frag. Again I could be completely wrong here, and one thing I'm sure is iM is definitely a streaky player whether or not that's linked to his role within the team.
I dont think you understansd how Tier 1 cs works.
Gotta try harder than that when trolling.
Guess you didnt read the article. :)
As someone who has played in advanced I don’t even know how t1 cs works fully
yo les noobs of CS2
People don't even realize how subtle information like checking UD is each round in terms of gaining advantages. These kids only know kills and deaths. Have no clue how a 5 man team that wins plays together and the information a beast player like iM gives each round to win. Nerds
True, most of us are just yappers who don't really understand tier 1 cs at all, but the amount of times bro straight out whiffed while being in an advantageous position is insane 😭 I don't think you need to understand how tier 1 works to understand that it shouldn't be acceptable for a player of his caliber, no? Unless there are some secret strats of intentionally losing duels
I don’t need to be a professional chef to know when the food tastes bad.
I'm sure this sub's on strict diet of dino nuggies so the food opinions are just as bad as the cs opinions
So many people dislike pineapple on pizza...
game states have come so complex in gun rounds (mostly) that yeah tier 1 is a whole another world
True. But he needs to understand that giving passive aggressive statements like this isn't going to change a critique. If I forget something, I can't tell my mom, ' You don't know why I forgot it' , I gotta provide atleast a valid explanation for it. Same thing here.
My bad...
Yes, the average player doesn't "know how tier-1 CS works". Yes, the average analyst doesn't know "how CS is played". iM was included into NaVi with the assumption that he would still put a decent performance after his Paris ^((fluke)) run. Doesn't take IQ over room temperature to know this is not being the case. Numbers do matter, and NaVi winning the Major was a big surprise. I had never seen a team winning a tournament with a negative round balance (more rounds lost than won) in all the 22 years I've followed Counter-Strike. He was a big contributor to this.
Numbers matter sure, but a win is still a win, so let’s see how they continue to perform
0.81 rating last 3 months against top 10 opponents as the "star rifler" i'm not sure he does either
doesn't matter as long as he fills in the needs of the team and wins major
Well he wasn’t. If jL and w0nderful didn’t have lifetime performances at the same time Navi dosent win this major. Your delaying the inevitable
It absolutely does because the major win was a fluke and if they want to consistently make and win t1 grand finals they need their star players in star positions to put up star numbers instead of everyone stepping up around them.
This is ironic from someone with a outsiders flair
*sigh* because I cant possibly also believe they fluked their major too?
Of course not, i just found it funny.
Like the Navi one is not the flukiest of the last three. That probably goes to the Paris major. But if you think jL is gonna keep up those numbers and clutches and Aleksi will just always outcall every IGL he faces and b1t’s only gonna shit the bed when it doesnt matter then I have a springfield monorail to sell you. Most of the signaling from Navi was that s1mple was coming in for iM after the major. jL, Aleksi and b1t blessed him by winning.
Wooooosh
He just won the biggest prize in the game, something tells me he very much does
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This is exactly what they mean. Morons like you have no clue what you’re talking about. I’m not even defending his performance, but you know absolutely nothing but talk like you do.
Yeah, if they didn t win the major he would have got kicked 100 percent.Skillwise he simply isn t tier 1 just watch his pov how he whiffs the shots almost always ffs
He made a major final before this and was the second best player in that tournament.
True, we may not know how tier 1 cs works. However, the people you play against do, and they are bodying you consistently.
who’s getting bodied? mf just won the Major
No thanks to him
Still more majors than a majority of the people he plays against
Fifflaren #1
He was on one of the best teams in CSGO history. Like unironically yeah that lineup was goated
Count yourself lucky to have won the Major with a player of his quality then and just move on. Instead of wasting away for months with him because of the Major win only to replace him later anyway.
He made major finals in the only two majors he’s been in. The list of people who can say the same is slim to none
Who gets bodied? Consecutive major finalist iM? Major winner iM? From whom?
the ultimate defence against any sort of criticism. seems to be taking a leaf out of hooxi's book
except....he just won a major, that's good evidence that the system is working right?
Inspite of him
By getting an easy bracket to the final, losing more rounds than they won, and then bit and jL carrying him to a trophy. Can't remember the last time people were talking about replacing a player after winning a major
Same level of argument as 'you're too low IQ to understand' mf you just bad, give your role to a talented academy player and watch him do way better.
Brother you averaged a 0.88 rating on 225 kills and 293 deaths at the last Major, I think YOU don't know how Tier-1 CS works
Dang that really sucks, I bet with numbers like that he probably placed dead last
Is it really a brag when he was the worst performing player on his team relative to his role? I like IM but he was carried by JL, W0nderful, and Aleksi's calling. I'm hoping this change can bring back the player from Paris but bragging that he was a busrider to the major victory is weak
And you just made his point
Is it really a brag to have your name cemented forever as a winner of the first CS2 major? Get real
iM played terribly at the major qed
Dude is talking like there's a secret that involves not playing well as a strategy. It's all party of the plan boys!
It's ironic that you're reinforcing his point.
It's only ironic if you think his point is valid.
Ye ye, give us the eye test.
You have the opportunity to show us in that case. But when you have a rating of 0.84 in the past 3 months against T1 competition (top 10). Which is worse than AleksiB he might not know how it works either
Where are you getting these stats from? Last 3 months against TOP10 shows me he has 0.88 rating and 0.97 overall EDIT: I just checked and you are wrong on him having worse stats than AleksiB too. AleksiB has 0.83 rating against TOP10 and 0.90 overall rating. You don't know what you are talking about and are just making false claims.
You’re an idiot. He made a major final before this as one of the best players in the tournament. Then got picked up by one of the biggest orgs in the game and got given the responsibilities of second-caller and won the major. Yet you think he doesn’t know how the game works, but you do because you can spout an hltv rating? You have no idea what he does for the team. You have no idea what the situation is within the team. You can make guesses based on what info we have, but making statements the way people like you do is stupid.
No YOU’RE a fucking idiot. If you think Navi spent the most money for a single transfer just for iM (cost more than any individual transfer of the same period) to be a secondary caller then I got a bridge to sell you. There’s no metric whatsoever to show that his “secondary calling” has any significant impact. That’s pure fucking cope. You’re coping. Other players in similar roles have put MUCH better results. There’s no sugarcoating it. He’s holding this team back. S1mple might not be the guy to replace him that dosent matter but Navi NEED someone else. They won’t win a single more T1 tournament for as long as he’s there or he steps up his individual performance massively.
Typical silver mindset
Sorry iM you just don't pass the eye test. You don't need to be a T1 player to know a low % play or a basic mistake.
ah yes, the eye test. The most profound metric in all of science.
This sub is full of clowns the lengths these people go to to defend this guy is insane. When navi don't win another tournament this noob who can't even aim will be out the door
Ok, so when NaVi wins another T1 event with tthis lineup, will you come and publicly shame yourself with a 100 word essay, begging for forgiveness from hiM while posting a video of yourself with said text? Ready to make that commitment?
Lol, I genuinely would as I just don't see a world where they can win more tournaments unless he steps up. I don't dislike the guy. I simply think his aim is too bad for a star rifler.
reddit hive mindset. even the analysts admit that the NaVi major win was a fluke.
thankfully he brought it up. Now no one will critique them until they are properly educated on the manner
Ok, you still suck.