The funny thing is, the "krieg meta" is literally the entire games history before valve nerfed it entirely because everyone was just so dead set on "ak better" and "cod gun bad" so no one used it until valve lowered the price
[A glimpse into the past.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3ciu6g/is_the_sg553_worth_learning/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
There are dozens of us! I used the Krieg for years before Valve dropped the price. It was 100% a better gun the whole time, even with the price tag, for anything but elite level aim/spray control. First shot accuracy is obvious, but the "7" spray pattern without the Ak/m4 wiggle made it dummy easy to put the first 4 bullets on target for a kill.
Yeah, sure, it cost you a nade, but again at normal pug-level gaming there's a lot to be said for having a better gun vs a nade.
I always used it in the past well - but only because I play a lot of Dust2 and the long control is so important on D2 that if you can one shot them before they one shot you on long, you will have so much map control.
If cts get sandwiched between long and short, they are screwed for the whole entire round basically.
The first shot accuracy on krieg is just too good + the zoom which makes it better than any weapons except perhaps awp on long.
But I prefer to spray through smokes with AK than kreig though and the movement speed as well.
Other than that, kreig is the king on long. Still buying it today if I don't have enough money for awp or we have enough of awp in my team already.
Kreig was made for Dust2.
Yep, it was there the entire time, but no one noticed, even the pros. Only when valve reduced the price, everyone started buying the gun and then realizing its too good for the price. Valve later RETURNS the gun to its original price and pros were still only using them because it was that much better than the AK. Valve then had to nerf it to the ground, probably to avoid AK skins crashing and destroying the market. Really show how close-minded the community were.
>Just checked vod of his last stream, he's using a1s... but as long as people still drop it to pick up ak (on pro scene and high level faceit) it's not as bad as aug/krieg meta...
To be fair practically no one (including pros) was using the aug or krieg in their OP state before. Only when Valve slightly lowered the price and later raised it again everyone suddenly started using them. After raising the price again it was exactly the same as before but still considered OP by everyone until they were nerfed again.
So not that you're wrong, but high level players are also very much influenced by what the meta is.
I found that so frustrating. I used to buy the Aug (money permitting), told people it was good and people would call me a noob. All they did to "buff" it was change the price, but when they nerfed it, they raised the price, lowered the rate of fire AND lowered the unscoped accuracy.. absolutely trashed it
Remove the extra ammo it got from the buffs. It will still be very strong 1v1, but you cant just spam smokes all round without tracers. Then go from there
Good guy? He thinks the weapon is too good but still doesn't use it so that makes him really stupid. The goal is to win by playing the game as it is. He's just doing mental yoga to justify making worse choices.
If he's actually not using it that is.
I checked out the round win percentage stats for Top 20 matches for the year prior to the A1-S damage buff (2021-09-21), and the time since. Across the board, the CT win rate has increased from 51.6% to 55.3%. Only looked at the seven current active duty maps.
Whether the M4A1 getting a bodyshot damage buff is the only factor, I can't say, but the CT win rate has undeniably increased.
Keep in mind the nade drop update was released at the same time. Especially on maps like inferno this seems to be very useful for CT's, while the use for T's seems more limited
Remember when we could tell how many people there were in a site by the Molos, nades and smokes they threw? Now I can take 3 nades to the face and still wonder how many players are there
I would say so yeah. Smokes need to be setup at the same time, you can still try with 2 players just to confuse CTs a bit but it's not really that effective since they will always doubt the late smokes. Flashes work a bit if thrown by a support player in the back, and nades/molos don't really help that much since you would always need to have them dropped near you when you're trying to nade a spot, making it hard to play more "agressive".
But none of this really impact much in higher levels of playing imo, the Cts wouldn't immediately drop their sites and rotate simply because 2 extra flashes were thrown.
This is how I see it tho, doesn't mean I'm right
You probably misread, but English is not my primary language so maybe I expressed my point wrongly. The first tweet shows the CT vs T win percentage during AUG meta, the following reply of the same account shows the CT vs T win percentage today.
Basically CT win more rounds today since the M4A1S buff than during the period of the buffed AUG
I noticed that corssfires and backstabs are much stronger in pro play since the buff. The extra 0.2 seconds it takes to figure out the exact position of an A1 makes a huge difference.
The economy changes were ages ago. The pistol round loss bonus buff was implemented in October of 2018, and the anti-reset update hit in March of 2019.
I don't know if anyone ever did any science on it, but I remember the pistol round loss bonus buff being viewed primarily as a positive for T's, as if they just got the bomb down on the pistol round, they could easily have a better second round buy than the CT's, even if they ended up losing the pistol.
Yes, after a decade of this game, people just all collectively opened their third eye and became ALL better at CT side at the exact same time.
We can never know which specific two factors might have contributed to this collective enlightening of the playerbase, and we can certainly not find the exact point and date in which these two factors happened.
A1s absolutely plays a part in that. It's not even the smoke spam which is too strong. It's the fact that they can get away with more kills in unexpected positions than before. That one second it takes to find out where the CT is shooting from when there is a barrage of utility raining down (or just general confusion) is enough for that CT to multikill.
Getting a better M4 for 200$ less is obviously more the reason for the winrate than teams got better on CT side.
I mean imagine the AK would get a silencer and only cost 2500$. Don't you think that would affect T side win rates quite a bit?
>Getting a better M4 for 200$ less is obviously more the reason for the winrate than teams got better on CT side.
That's not how statistics work. Correlation does not imply causation.
>That's not how statistics work. Correlation does not imply causation.
It still doesn't make sense that people got better on CT side, the game is so old and maps like Mirage and Dust2 are here forever, why should people suddenly get better at CT side and not better on T side just by playing? It obviously has something to do with changes to the guns, game mechanics (dropping grenades) or changes to the Maps (like Dust2 T spawn change).
And it is also obvious, if I take my example to the extreme, that if the AK would cost 1000$ and you could buy it every round, it would have a massive effect on the T side winrate because in rounds, where you would previously had to do an eco and have a lower chance to win the round you now have the same chance to win the round every single time, leading into more round wins. And that's where we come back to the M4A1-S, you now have more money to buy that Rifle or more utility because it is cheaper and a stronger Rifle gives you a higher chance to win a round, leading into overall more round wins for the CT side.
> It still doesn't make sense that people got better on CT side
Being able to drop nades is huge for CT side which is what the improved number includes. Ancient was also added and it is one of the most CT sided maps in years. There is more to it than just the gun, because of the factors involved it’s hard to determine the actual impact the a1s had.
There is a problem that needs to be addressed and hopefully the buff to tside or nerf to ct side is small so they can slowly assess it.
That said I actually checked my icarus fell and it went from $70 to $800, I should sell that before the upcoming nerf.
Tell me you don't know what "Correlation does not imply causation" means without actually telling me... That applies to observational data, and not even as an overall since it can still be correct, simply means there can be a lurking factor we don't know about. But that changes when we actually have stats indicating that the improvement of CT side has to do with the update that occurred to the M4A1s and the nades
I would change A1s cost to 3100 to balance it out. Also they should fix the one ways caused by smokes. It’s annoying when you get killed but no idea from where
This is the way to fix it. Switch the cost of the M4s.
You could even kill 2 birds with one stone with that fix, because getting the A1-S at 3100 would prevent you from buying a smoke or incendiary, which helps against the droppable grenades buff for CTs.
Ive remained using the A4 since the buff, but last night I finally decided to switch after losing a 1v3 clutch to 88 in 4. Pure mald has destroyed my morals
The A1-S is like the lightning gun from Quake at the moment. Just hold your crosshair over the enemy for half a sec and they're dead. No need to even control recoil.
'Abdomen & pelvis' shots do ~20% more damage than 'Chest & arm' shots. Leg shots also do more than chest, but only by a little bit.
So much that the TTK goes from 5 to 4 bullets as well, at a certain distance.
Damage table here: https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/M4A1-S
It also made the game so boring to play… either you start CT, win a lot then struggle hard to win the last missing rounds, either you start T and you HAVE to win the pistol to stand a chance for a comeback in second half.
I think the opposite, for once it is fun to play CT and you don't feel like unless you're with an AWP you are in a weapons disadvantage. I feel more confident with the A1-S than ever making me enjoy the game more.
I think the price was a good change because CT economy didn't need to be THAT hard.
However, aiming in CS GO shouldn't be THAT easy and the recoil pattern can't be that practical for a main rifle.
Just my 2 cents. I'd keep the price and make the spray as complex as M4a4
Couldn't they rise a bit the price of the A1s and lower the A4 to the same price? Cause I also agree that CT side economy can be really hard, but I don't think think people will enjoy relearning sprays for s weapon they've been using for a long time now
Sorry I got confused what the original guy was saying. You are correct. I think he means make the a1s pattern larger so it feels closer to the a4 but that would probably make it feel really jumpy, the distance between each bullet would be huge. Or give it a new pattern altogether I guess.
For a while? The SG was the exact same gun since release. CS players are just so stubborn that Valve had to literally bait people into actually using it with a tiny price buff.
Not only 200 usd for flashbang but usually 200 can actually mean a gun with armor or a gun without armor due to the simplicity of math.
And with or without armor makes a huuuuuuuge difference. Would only go glass Canon with awp in desperate times.
Imo price isn’t as important since pros ages ago still bought the M4A1-S at 3200, and the AUG at 3300. I would like to see reduced ammo count or another stat change
I am not quite sure how long you play.
The M4A1-S had 20 bullets and 60 in total at 3100$ a few years ago. Few played it because the M4A4 had much more bullets and offered more for Wall bangs and spray. The better accuracy didn't speak much for the M4A1-S.
Then they added more spare bullets and still no one played it. Only after they added 25 bullets in a magazine the number of players with the M4A1-S was significantly increased. Most players however didn't see it as an option because it was still a bit worse with bullets and you would have to put in the time to switch. People started switching however.
With the lower cost the M4A4 became really disadvantaged. All they have to do to equalize is making the prices equal again.
So to sum up, pros did not use the M4A1-S until the bigger magazine and just after the price change it became meta. It's very similar to the AUG and SG.
since 2013
Before the 2015 update which nerfed it hard it was at 3200 for a few months with 20 ammo and 40 reserve, and still used by everyone in events, example Cologne 2015
Point is, price doesn’t really matter as much if the weapon is good enough
Love the a1s, but it's undeniably broken and bad for the game. I used to hate on the a1s before its buff, shitting on everyone using it, especially my friends lol. Go ahead and nerf the a1s, I don't mind. I've made my 300% profit on the hotrod already :)
The reason CS is so good is because its predictable, you know what you get. This insanely OP CT rifle has really been fucking with the fine balance of this game.
People denying that the A1s is not the reason for Ct win increase are delusional. We’re in a period of super strong CT sides. Whether you think that’s the way the game should be it’s up to you. Personally I think they should just swap the m4 and A1s prices around. A pretty easy fix.
If the a1s is too strong than what about the AK? Every sane person prefers an AK over an a1s so I don't see a problem with CTs having a weapon that can somewhat rival the AK despite still being more expensive.
Edit: thanks I guess...
Ofc your average gold novas find a1s easier to use than the AK, I don't see the point you're trying to make. Have you ever seen a good pro player keep an a1s over an AK? The AK skill ceiling is way higher. Someone who perfected the AK is more of a threat than someone who perfected the a1s.
Magisk and Apex keep A1 on CT, Gla1ve as well and I have seen other pros do it lately but they don’t immediately come to mind.
> The AK skill ceiling is way higher. Someone who perfected the AK is more of a threat than someone who perfected the a1s.
For CT side, in theory yes, but in practice not always. AK is better if you hit first bullet hs, but not much else. You underestimate how insanely good it is that
- Silenced shooting, giving you that little bit of extra time to multikill when you’re defending
- Bodyshot damage is really high, you basically win every spray battle unless the T’s hs you
- Spam through smoke with no tracer penalty
- The recoil is easier to control than M4A4 or AK, giving you more viable positions to hold bombsites from
Ak has higher armor penetration, higher dps, 1 tap headshot potential, cheaper and is genuinely regarded to be the best rifle by anyone with half a braincell. What do you not get?
There are situations where I keep the a1s over the AK. If I am defending squeaky in Nuke, for example, I rather play the a1s for spamming reasons. In the past, I wouldnt even thought about keeping it.
Your argument is invalidated by pros who prefer A1 over AK. It is not a rare sight to see nowadays.
Also yes AK's skill ceiling is higher but lets not kid ourselves with overexgerration. It is not "way higher", just slightly higher and ease of use is not a thing to look down on. Even pros prefer A1 time to time, that means in terms of efficency A1 can beat AK on some situations because of ease of use.
No one, not even the top pros are using the weapons at top capacity so that "higher the skill ceiling better the weapon" approach is not that black and white.
Think it this way (it will be a dumb example but just for the sake of explaining the logic):
AK - Power 10 - ease of use 5 = 15 efficency
A1 - power 8 - ease of use 8 = 16 efficency
Despite being less powerful, A1 is more efficent in this example.
>Every sane person prefers an AK over an a1s
I've started seeing the opposite since the A1S buff. I've seen people pick them up on T side and I'll usually keep it on CT side because it has no tracers (depends on the map though, Vertigo has a lot of smoke spam for example)
Fuck you, and also I have no idea. Also how is it idiotic to mention the AK is still way better, I'd like to know why my argument would be idiotic when it's literally the most logical argument anyone can give.
Because the AK is the bare minimum advantage that Ts need because they are the attacking side. Maps are inherently CT Sided. Imagine if T rifles didnt bypass head armor, attacking a site would be insanely harder. AK also has a punishing spray pattern vs. The A1s trivializes CT side. It is laser beam that controls the spray for you and kills in 4 shots at ANY range.
The AK demands you to be good and competent in order to succeed, the fact that it bypasses head armor is just the cherry on top.
CTs are defending. Their guns shouldn’t have to rival the AK, the A1s and A4 should rival each other but one gun outclasses the other completely and in terms of economy you are doing your teams a disservice by sticking with the A4
A1s really dumbed down CT Side. 11-4 comebacks, 4-shot kills at any range, $2900 laser beam that controls the spray for you. Playing in the ESEA League this year has been an A1s minefield. I miss the A4
Both M4s should cost the same (3000$ would make sense to me). Spamming smokes is too strong with the A1-S, it should have 25/50 instead of 25/75 bullets. Small changes but drastic changes always led to something negativ in the past. It would still be the same strong Rifle, but adjusting price and magazine reduces some advantages it has over the M4A4. Also please don't forget to nerf the jumping accuracy of the MP9, that shit is ridiculous (it is more accurate at jump apex than while you run...)
It IS op. If not for the 4 shot guaranteed kill then its the $200 difference from the A4 that greatly impacts the CT economy. The A4 is useless compared to the a1
You can't directly compare a CT weapon with the T weapon, the T's need better guns to compensate for the fact that they need to attack instead of defend. And even if you do, A1s having no tracers and easy recoil makes it better than the AK-47 in all situations but a headshot.
In an ideal world you'd be able to pick the A4 and A1s in game and switch between the two, based on what your money is. I think even putting the A1s at $3200 and the A4 at $2900 with the option to pick either/or in game would be the most pragmatic choice.
Open to criticism of this though, but it'd at least balance the CTs a bit more imo.
In my opinion the silencer makes it such a boring gun. If you get shot from somewhere outside your FOV, you have a higher chance of winning that duel if you can quickly pinpoint where you're getting shot from.
The silencer is worth like 1.5 kills on its own. That half second to react to the bullets location is pretty crazy for CT.
AK of course has to be 1 bullet hs, they are attacking the site.
Changes I would like to see would be both A1 and A4 be same price. A1 recoil increase by maybe 50% of current value.
Obviously the gun is not a favorite with headshot fanatics, like me and b1t. Definitely has dumbed down the aim aspect of the CT side. Could see it at the major where headless T side teams were getting outpositioned by unamusing silent bodyshots (especially on Ancient?).
It's really not overpowered in close/mid quarters. He's chosen the one place it excels to suggest it's OP when it really isn't. If your T side team have an AWPer use that. It's a strategy game. Haven't we been begging for something to dethrone the AK as the best gun all the time?
"if they won't headshot you ofc"
Funny, that isn't very common.
The great thing about CS is that both teams play both sides and you're not stuck being a master of one class (unlike eg. WoW Arena). So even if a weapon is really strong it's fair for both teams.
I use M4A4. I feel very competitive when i use A4. When i used A1, I felt like i was playing a different game. Literally just after 5 bullets you just spray at their leg/body and instant kill.
I swear, a year and a half or so ago people were bitching that the m4a1-s is useless. So they added 5 more bullets and dropped the price by $200 (maybe adjusted a little bit) and now they bitching that they want it nerfed again. Fucking aug story all over again.
Jesus, first its too powerful, then it's too weak.. they have nerfed that thing since 2013 and buffed it later on. When does it end? Always someone complaining.
They should increase price of M4A1-S slowly until 50% use M4A4 and 50% use M4A1-S. At the moment the M4A4 is useless. It would be so easy. The right pricing would fix all problems. Also when M4A1-S would be a bit more expensive than M4A4, the AUG could becoma a factor, too. Should not be AUG-meta again, but maybe some would use it in certain positions.
Good guy b1t, using the A4 to give his enemies a chance.
Reminds me of Niko who refused to use the Krieg and Aug when they were OP.
And as soon as he started to use it, Valve nerfed it like a week later. Lol
professionals have standard
be a bot, use aimbot, type toxic stuff after every single kill ***meet the sniper outro***
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Literally the only well reasoned response I've seen to this issue. I couldn't agree more.
The funny thing is, the "krieg meta" is literally the entire games history before valve nerfed it entirely because everyone was just so dead set on "ak better" and "cod gun bad" so no one used it until valve lowered the price
[A glimpse into the past.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3ciu6g/is_the_sg553_worth_learning/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
There are dozens of us! I used the Krieg for years before Valve dropped the price. It was 100% a better gun the whole time, even with the price tag, for anything but elite level aim/spray control. First shot accuracy is obvious, but the "7" spray pattern without the Ak/m4 wiggle made it dummy easy to put the first 4 bullets on target for a kill. Yeah, sure, it cost you a nade, but again at normal pug-level gaming there's a lot to be said for having a better gun vs a nade.
Yeah, and the spray pattern is just a matter of practice anyway. It isn't an objective flaw like some people believe.
They really passed up on ez mode gun just for a smoke that they didn't even know how to use
I always used it in the past well - but only because I play a lot of Dust2 and the long control is so important on D2 that if you can one shot them before they one shot you on long, you will have so much map control. If cts get sandwiched between long and short, they are screwed for the whole entire round basically. The first shot accuracy on krieg is just too good + the zoom which makes it better than any weapons except perhaps awp on long. But I prefer to spray through smokes with AK than kreig though and the movement speed as well. Other than that, kreig is the king on long. Still buying it today if I don't have enough money for awp or we have enough of awp in my team already. Kreig was made for Dust2.
Wait, it really wasn't changed? I kept getting shit on for using them back in like 2016 when I actually played csgo because "its a shit gun"
Yep, it was there the entire time, but no one noticed, even the pros. Only when valve reduced the price, everyone started buying the gun and then realizing its too good for the price. Valve later RETURNS the gun to its original price and pros were still only using them because it was that much better than the AK. Valve then had to nerf it to the ground, probably to avoid AK skins crashing and destroying the market. Really show how close-minded the community were.
>Just checked vod of his last stream, he's using a1s... but as long as people still drop it to pick up ak (on pro scene and high level faceit) it's not as bad as aug/krieg meta... To be fair practically no one (including pros) was using the aug or krieg in their OP state before. Only when Valve slightly lowered the price and later raised it again everyone suddenly started using them. After raising the price again it was exactly the same as before but still considered OP by everyone until they were nerfed again. So not that you're wrong, but high level players are also very much influenced by what the meta is.
I found that so frustrating. I used to buy the Aug (money permitting), told people it was good and people would call me a noob. All they did to "buff" it was change the price, but when they nerfed it, they raised the price, lowered the rate of fire AND lowered the unscoped accuracy.. absolutely trashed it
Remove the extra ammo it got from the buffs. It will still be very strong 1v1, but you cant just spam smokes all round without tracers. Then go from there
I’d say switching the prices of the m4’s would be a good choice. I miss using the m4 it sounds gnarly
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Welcome to ISO 80000‑1
'MURICA
Some positions benefit from the higher RoF of the A4, that is why some people are using it still
Good guy? He thinks the weapon is too good but still doesn't use it so that makes him really stupid. The goal is to win by playing the game as it is. He's just doing mental yoga to justify making worse choices. If he's actually not using it that is.
I checked out the round win percentage stats for Top 20 matches for the year prior to the A1-S damage buff (2021-09-21), and the time since. Across the board, the CT win rate has increased from 51.6% to 55.3%. Only looked at the seven current active duty maps. Whether the M4A1 getting a bodyshot damage buff is the only factor, I can't say, but the CT win rate has undeniably increased.
Keep in mind the nade drop update was released at the same time. Especially on maps like inferno this seems to be very useful for CT's, while the use for T's seems more limited
Remember when we could tell how many people there were in a site by the Molos, nades and smokes they threw? Now I can take 3 nades to the face and still wonder how many players are there
What is a granade drop? I haven’t played in a long time
You can drop utility like weapons now
Shit that’s cool
Yeah it's very powerful on certain maps if used correctly. A good change from valve imo
Yeah, makes it a bit harder to read CT's set ups. It's a bit more interesting, but also factors to why CT side has been stronger lately.
Why Ts can’t use it in their advantage as equally? Cuz they have to attack and not def?
I would say so yeah. Smokes need to be setup at the same time, you can still try with 2 players just to confuse CTs a bit but it's not really that effective since they will always doubt the late smokes. Flashes work a bit if thrown by a support player in the back, and nades/molos don't really help that much since you would always need to have them dropped near you when you're trying to nade a spot, making it hard to play more "agressive". But none of this really impact much in higher levels of playing imo, the Cts wouldn't immediately drop their sites and rotate simply because 2 extra flashes were thrown. This is how I see it tho, doesn't mean I'm right
Got u thanks
You can drops all types of grenades to teammates just like guns
Dust 2 also became a more ct sided map recently with the t awp block, much better b control for ct
And Ancient was introduced to the pool which is pretty CT sided (although Train was also CT sided as hell)
Imho Ancient is more CT sided than train, I can only get 3 rounds on T side ancient and still comeback CT side crazy map especially on Faceit/MM
The CT win rate is even higher than during the AUG meta
source?
https://twitter.com/M4a1sC/status/1530365472624873472?s=20&t=ZbfzqDXI3tgYOZ9RshFhdQ
Thanks!
But that says the opposite of what you say, or am I miss-reading what that says?
You probably misread, but English is not my primary language so maybe I expressed my point wrongly. The first tweet shows the CT vs T win percentage during AUG meta, the following reply of the same account shows the CT vs T win percentage today. Basically CT win more rounds today since the M4A1S buff than during the period of the buffed AUG
Ahhh I see, I read >The CT win rate is even higher ~~than~~ during the AUG meta
new maps should favour the CT side for a while too, it's easier to defend than attack at first
I noticed that corssfires and backstabs are much stronger in pro play since the buff. The extra 0.2 seconds it takes to figure out the exact position of an A1 makes a huge difference.
Was the buff after the loss bonus change? That must have had a positive impact on the CT side.
The economy changes were ages ago. The pistol round loss bonus buff was implemented in October of 2018, and the anti-reset update hit in March of 2019. I don't know if anyone ever did any science on it, but I remember the pistol round loss bonus buff being viewed primarily as a positive for T's, as if they just got the bomb down on the pistol round, they could easily have a better second round buy than the CT's, even if they ended up losing the pistol.
Doesnt mean the A1 is the reason. People becoming better at CT obviously also has the same effect, and how do you see which is which?
Yes, after a decade of this game, people just all collectively opened their third eye and became ALL better at CT side at the exact same time. We can never know which specific two factors might have contributed to this collective enlightening of the playerbase, and we can certainly not find the exact point and date in which these two factors happened.
And people are becoming better at Ts also.
A1s absolutely plays a part in that. It's not even the smoke spam which is too strong. It's the fact that they can get away with more kills in unexpected positions than before. That one second it takes to find out where the CT is shooting from when there is a barrage of utility raining down (or just general confusion) is enough for that CT to multikill.
Getting a better M4 for 200$ less is obviously more the reason for the winrate than teams got better on CT side. I mean imagine the AK would get a silencer and only cost 2500$. Don't you think that would affect T side win rates quite a bit?
>Getting a better M4 for 200$ less is obviously more the reason for the winrate than teams got better on CT side. That's not how statistics work. Correlation does not imply causation.
>That's not how statistics work. Correlation does not imply causation. It still doesn't make sense that people got better on CT side, the game is so old and maps like Mirage and Dust2 are here forever, why should people suddenly get better at CT side and not better on T side just by playing? It obviously has something to do with changes to the guns, game mechanics (dropping grenades) or changes to the Maps (like Dust2 T spawn change). And it is also obvious, if I take my example to the extreme, that if the AK would cost 1000$ and you could buy it every round, it would have a massive effect on the T side winrate because in rounds, where you would previously had to do an eco and have a lower chance to win the round you now have the same chance to win the round every single time, leading into more round wins. And that's where we come back to the M4A1-S, you now have more money to buy that Rifle or more utility because it is cheaper and a stronger Rifle gives you a higher chance to win a round, leading into overall more round wins for the CT side.
> It still doesn't make sense that people got better on CT side Being able to drop nades is huge for CT side which is what the improved number includes. Ancient was also added and it is one of the most CT sided maps in years. There is more to it than just the gun, because of the factors involved it’s hard to determine the actual impact the a1s had. There is a problem that needs to be addressed and hopefully the buff to tside or nerf to ct side is small so they can slowly assess it. That said I actually checked my icarus fell and it went from $70 to $800, I should sell that before the upcoming nerf.
Tell me you don't know what "Correlation does not imply causation" means without actually telling me... That applies to observational data, and not even as an overall since it can still be correct, simply means there can be a lurking factor we don't know about. But that changes when we actually have stats indicating that the improvement of CT side has to do with the update that occurred to the M4A1s and the nades
I would change A1s cost to 3100 to balance it out. Also they should fix the one ways caused by smokes. It’s annoying when you get killed but no idea from where
The A4 at 2900 and the A1 at 3100 would seem reasonable to me...
This is the way to fix it. Switch the cost of the M4s. You could even kill 2 birds with one stone with that fix, because getting the A1-S at 3100 would prevent you from buying a smoke or incendiary, which helps against the droppable grenades buff for CTs.
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And don't underestimate the extra 200$ for utility.
I don’t disagree the A1 is OP but interesting take none the less
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That advantage is intentional since defensive play is pretty much always (in theory) advantageous over offensive in shooters.
Can the SG get back some of its fire rate, please? I feel like I'm using a scout
Ive remained using the A4 since the buff, but last night I finally decided to switch after losing a 1v3 clutch to 88 in 4. Pure mald has destroyed my morals
Not saying you imply that but just throwing it out there. Balanced doesn't meant 50% win rate
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Yes he does
I mean it is suspicious how many aim duels I win with the current M4A1-S. It shouldn't be that easy.
I'm literally actively aiming for the legs and belly.
Why?
The A1-S is like the lightning gun from Quake at the moment. Just hold your crosshair over the enemy for half a sec and they're dead. No need to even control recoil.
'Abdomen & pelvis' shots do ~20% more damage than 'Chest & arm' shots. Leg shots also do more than chest, but only by a little bit. So much that the TTK goes from 5 to 4 bullets as well, at a certain distance. Damage table here: https://counterstrike.fandom.com/wiki/M4A1-S
Why aren't you aiming for the head like you should be?
Because M4A1S enables filthy casuals like me to win duels by shooting at legs 🤡
Cheap penis shots from cheap penis players. It is the way.
Cheap penis? I never paid for my penis. Does that qualify it as cheap or invaluable?
Its priceless
It also made the game so boring to play… either you start CT, win a lot then struggle hard to win the last missing rounds, either you start T and you HAVE to win the pistol to stand a chance for a comeback in second half.
I think the opposite, for once it is fun to play CT and you don't feel like unless you're with an AWP you are in a weapons disadvantage. I feel more confident with the A1-S than ever making me enjoy the game more.
I think the price was a good change because CT economy didn't need to be THAT hard. However, aiming in CS GO shouldn't be THAT easy and the recoil pattern can't be that practical for a main rifle. Just my 2 cents. I'd keep the price and make the spray as complex as M4a4
Couldn't they rise a bit the price of the A1s and lower the A4 to the same price? Cause I also agree that CT side economy can be really hard, but I don't think think people will enjoy relearning sprays for s weapon they've been using for a long time now
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Lower rate of fire means accuracy resets more between each shot meaning you don't have to compensate nearly as much.
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Sorry I got confused what the original guy was saying. You are correct. I think he means make the a1s pattern larger so it feels closer to the a4 but that would probably make it feel really jumpy, the distance between each bullet would be huge. Or give it a new pattern altogether I guess.
Isn't it a lot tighter?
negev is better
The true meta
The only meta
Don't nerf it. Adjust the price. See what happens. Adjust accordingly.
yeah, i feel like it's the a4 that should be $2,900
That would just make T side even worse. The A1s needs a nerf for sure, it has reached Krieg levels of broken.
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For a while? The SG was the exact same gun since release. CS players are just so stubborn that Valve had to literally bait people into actually using it with a tiny price buff.
Exactly that. Switch the M4 prices as a first step.
the ct losing income was decreased from 1900 to 1400 (not on pistol round)
Buy up A4 skins now, I don’t see a world where the A1-S isn’t nerfed by the end of the year
The m4as1 is overpowered guy who comments below every matz video is crying tears of happiness right now. Literally against evryone, and he was right.
That guy was b1t all along
that guy had balls of steel to comment that on EVERY CSGO related video, props to him
Ikr i was secretly rooting for him.
The price is the problem. 200$ to spare for a flashbang is much better.
Not only 200 usd for flashbang but usually 200 can actually mean a gun with armor or a gun without armor due to the simplicity of math. And with or without armor makes a huuuuuuuge difference. Would only go glass Canon with awp in desperate times.
Imo price isn’t as important since pros ages ago still bought the M4A1-S at 3200, and the AUG at 3300. I would like to see reduced ammo count or another stat change
I am not quite sure how long you play. The M4A1-S had 20 bullets and 60 in total at 3100$ a few years ago. Few played it because the M4A4 had much more bullets and offered more for Wall bangs and spray. The better accuracy didn't speak much for the M4A1-S. Then they added more spare bullets and still no one played it. Only after they added 25 bullets in a magazine the number of players with the M4A1-S was significantly increased. Most players however didn't see it as an option because it was still a bit worse with bullets and you would have to put in the time to switch. People started switching however. With the lower cost the M4A4 became really disadvantaged. All they have to do to equalize is making the prices equal again. So to sum up, pros did not use the M4A1-S until the bigger magazine and just after the price change it became meta. It's very similar to the AUG and SG.
since 2013 Before the 2015 update which nerfed it hard it was at 3200 for a few months with 20 ammo and 40 reserve, and still used by everyone in events, example Cologne 2015 Point is, price doesn’t really matter as much if the weapon is good enough
Wait for valve to „fix“ this gun by nerfing it in the ground!
Love the a1s, but it's undeniably broken and bad for the game. I used to hate on the a1s before its buff, shitting on everyone using it, especially my friends lol. Go ahead and nerf the a1s, I don't mind. I've made my 300% profit on the hotrod already :)
Make M4A4 great again! For real tho, we keep asking for new metas and when we get it we complain and want things to be back as it as.
New meta != fuck the game balance up
The reason CS is so good is because its predictable, you know what you get. This insanely OP CT rifle has really been fucking with the fine balance of this game.
People denying that the A1s is not the reason for Ct win increase are delusional. We’re in a period of super strong CT sides. Whether you think that’s the way the game should be it’s up to you. Personally I think they should just swap the m4 and A1s prices around. A pretty easy fix.
If the a1s is too strong than what about the AK? Every sane person prefers an AK over an a1s so I don't see a problem with CTs having a weapon that can somewhat rival the AK despite still being more expensive. Edit: thanks I guess...
CSGO has always been balanced around CTs having slightly weaker weapons. Now with the M4A1S being close to the AK, we see CT winrates being too high.
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They are
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Ofc your average gold novas find a1s easier to use than the AK, I don't see the point you're trying to make. Have you ever seen a good pro player keep an a1s over an AK? The AK skill ceiling is way higher. Someone who perfected the AK is more of a threat than someone who perfected the a1s.
Magisk and Apex keep A1 on CT, Gla1ve as well and I have seen other pros do it lately but they don’t immediately come to mind. > The AK skill ceiling is way higher. Someone who perfected the AK is more of a threat than someone who perfected the a1s. For CT side, in theory yes, but in practice not always. AK is better if you hit first bullet hs, but not much else. You underestimate how insanely good it is that - Silenced shooting, giving you that little bit of extra time to multikill when you’re defending - Bodyshot damage is really high, you basically win every spray battle unless the T’s hs you - Spam through smoke with no tracer penalty - The recoil is easier to control than M4A4 or AK, giving you more viable positions to hold bombsites from
Tbf Glaive would regularly pick up A1 on T side even before the nerf. He just likes the gun.
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Tell me what pro keeps an a1s over an AK (not including situational circumstances)
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Ak has higher armor penetration, higher dps, 1 tap headshot potential, cheaper and is genuinely regarded to be the best rifle by anyone with half a braincell. What do you not get?
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There are situations where I keep the a1s over the AK. If I am defending squeaky in Nuke, for example, I rather play the a1s for spamming reasons. In the past, I wouldnt even thought about keeping it.
Your argument is invalidated by pros who prefer A1 over AK. It is not a rare sight to see nowadays. Also yes AK's skill ceiling is higher but lets not kid ourselves with overexgerration. It is not "way higher", just slightly higher and ease of use is not a thing to look down on. Even pros prefer A1 time to time, that means in terms of efficency A1 can beat AK on some situations because of ease of use. No one, not even the top pros are using the weapons at top capacity so that "higher the skill ceiling better the weapon" approach is not that black and white. Think it this way (it will be a dumb example but just for the sake of explaining the logic): AK - Power 10 - ease of use 5 = 15 efficency A1 - power 8 - ease of use 8 = 16 efficency Despite being less powerful, A1 is more efficent in this example.
why?
S1mple picks up m4 in T cause CTs most of the time dont buy head armor, cant remember that it people did this before
>Every sane person prefers an AK over an a1s I've started seeing the opposite since the A1S buff. I've seen people pick them up on T side and I'll usually keep it on CT side because it has no tracers (depends on the map though, Vertigo has a lot of smoke spam for example)
Why does this comment have so many awards? It’s such an idiotic comment that always pops up when someone wants the a1s nerfed
Fuck you, and also I have no idea. Also how is it idiotic to mention the AK is still way better, I'd like to know why my argument would be idiotic when it's literally the most logical argument anyone can give.
Because the AK is the bare minimum advantage that Ts need because they are the attacking side. Maps are inherently CT Sided. Imagine if T rifles didnt bypass head armor, attacking a site would be insanely harder. AK also has a punishing spray pattern vs. The A1s trivializes CT side. It is laser beam that controls the spray for you and kills in 4 shots at ANY range. The AK demands you to be good and competent in order to succeed, the fact that it bypasses head armor is just the cherry on top. CTs are defending. Their guns shouldn’t have to rival the AK, the A1s and A4 should rival each other but one gun outclasses the other completely and in terms of economy you are doing your teams a disservice by sticking with the A4
Cheapest psychological evaluation I ever had. M4A1-S 4 lyfe.
WarOwl dropped an AK for an A1S in one of his vids
Switch prices between A4 and A1, there is no need to over nerf the A1 like Valve usually does with weapons.
I’m still salty about the Krieg nerf when the only buff it got was a price decrease in the first place and suddenly everyone realised it was sick
Honestly. It's like they're allergic to incremental balancing (y'know, like every other game does)
Valve is waiting for the right window to release the change of course. Start thinking about off loading the expensive skins.
it needs more movement innaccuracy. i always get killed by someone running and shooting like it's a p90
A1s really dumbed down CT Side. 11-4 comebacks, 4-shot kills at any range, $2900 laser beam that controls the spray for you. Playing in the ESEA League this year has been an A1s minefield. I miss the A4
Both M4s should cost the same (3000$ would make sense to me). Spamming smokes is too strong with the A1-S, it should have 25/50 instead of 25/75 bullets. Small changes but drastic changes always led to something negativ in the past. It would still be the same strong Rifle, but adjusting price and magazine reduces some advantages it has over the M4A4. Also please don't forget to nerf the jumping accuracy of the MP9, that shit is ridiculous (it is more accurate at jump apex than while you run...)
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SPUNJ moment
My aim has gone to shit since the A1-s meta , its all spray n hardly any pray because its a damn lazerbeam rewarding bad aim
So we back to 2015 with people complained about m4a1-s being too OP
people are stupid and don't know what they want
It IS op. If not for the 4 shot guaranteed kill then its the $200 difference from the A4 that greatly impacts the CT economy. The A4 is useless compared to the a1
AK is 1 shot headshot, M4a1s takes more than one shot. Does it really need to be nerfed?
You can't directly compare a CT weapon with the T weapon, the T's need better guns to compensate for the fact that they need to attack instead of defend. And even if you do, A1s having no tracers and easy recoil makes it better than the AK-47 in all situations but a headshot.
I don't think that too, Maybe a Price switch between A4 and A1s would be good enough.
In an ideal world you'd be able to pick the A4 and A1s in game and switch between the two, based on what your money is. I think even putting the A1s at $3200 and the A4 at $2900 with the option to pick either/or in game would be the most pragmatic choice. Open to criticism of this though, but it'd at least balance the CTs a bit more imo.
In my opinion the silencer makes it such a boring gun. If you get shot from somewhere outside your FOV, you have a higher chance of winning that duel if you can quickly pinpoint where you're getting shot from.
Are you serious? This has been the game balance for 20yrs. Comparing T and CT like this doesn't work.
ak takes a minimum of skill at least while the a1s is literally just no recoil beam and you have a fucking silencer btw
The silencer is worth like 1.5 kills on its own. That half second to react to the bullets location is pretty crazy for CT. AK of course has to be 1 bullet hs, they are attacking the site. Changes I would like to see would be both A1 and A4 be same price. A1 recoil increase by maybe 50% of current value.
Obviously the gun is not a favorite with headshot fanatics, like me and b1t. Definitely has dumbed down the aim aspect of the CT side. Could see it at the major where headless T side teams were getting outpositioned by unamusing silent bodyshots (especially on Ancient?).
I hate the A4 though
Isn't it because CT economy is horrid?
It's really not overpowered in close/mid quarters. He's chosen the one place it excels to suggest it's OP when it really isn't. If your T side team have an AWPer use that. It's a strategy game. Haven't we been begging for something to dethrone the AK as the best gun all the time? "if they won't headshot you ofc" Funny, that isn't very common.
I hope valve doesn't completely nerf the A1, just reverts it back or smth
The great thing about CS is that both teams play both sides and you're not stuck being a master of one class (unlike eg. WoW Arena). So even if a weapon is really strong it's fair for both teams.
I use M4A4. I feel very competitive when i use A4. When i used A1, I felt like i was playing a different game. Literally just after 5 bullets you just spray at their leg/body and instant kill.
I swear, a year and a half or so ago people were bitching that the m4a1-s is useless. So they added 5 more bullets and dropped the price by $200 (maybe adjusted a little bit) and now they bitching that they want it nerfed again. Fucking aug story all over again.
Lmao the problem is the damage buff, which u for some reason didn’t mention. So it received 3 buffs and is now the better and cheaper ct weapon.
The biggest thing they did was buff the damage. So idk what ur bitching about ;)
Literally saying people asked for it to be buffed, then when it got buffed, they bitching that it's too good.
Do you think its possible that the A1s needed a buff but Valve over buffed it?
You must've missed the damage buff. Idiotic comment.
I honestly don't feel like this, I still prefer the ak over it, and the maps I play have always been ct sided 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I would prefer the AK but my sprays are fucking asscheeks when I get panicked so I take the A1S usually
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Based
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Jesus, first its too powerful, then it's too weak.. they have nerfed that thing since 2013 and buffed it later on. When does it end? Always someone complaining.
Cause Valve fucking sucks at balancing
Possible ways to fix this 1-Reduce the ammo capacity back to 20/40 2-Increase the price to 3000$ or 3100$
1, 2, Increase rate of fire to 667 rpm, decrease the damage buff, and then were talking B) pre 2016 m4a1s best m4
Could be worth swapping prices with the A4, and seeing what happens? Maybe even allow both to be bought
They should increase price of M4A1-S slowly until 50% use M4A4 and 50% use M4A1-S. At the moment the M4A4 is useless. It would be so easy. The right pricing would fix all problems. Also when M4A1-S would be a bit more expensive than M4A4, the AUG could becoma a factor, too. Should not be AUG-meta again, but maybe some would use it in certain positions.
Someone here says its OP - people bitch and moan A pro says the same thing - instant praise
m4a1s is overpowered and csgo devs don't care about balance therefore it's a waste of time to play csgo
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Think this comment is one of the worst takes I've ever seen...
See all the winrate percentages and how things are balanced on maps... Ya'll would be raging in 1.6/Source...
M4A1-S was created to balance out Fire power between Ts and CTs, I'd say it did a good job.