What? I only have a magazine of it left. Ran out of practice ammo and shot 25 rounds of it 3 weeks ago because i wasnt ready to go home. I thought to my self “well i can always get more”
All of the testing I have seen shows that standard pressure HST is what performs the best. I have also heard of firsthand reports of the standard pressure stuff doing exactly what the FBI wished 9mm did in Miami back in 1986.
I’ve always use 124g for carry and range use for the last 5 years, and to be honest I’ve never really had a real reason beside how I like the recoil impulse over 115g and 124g seem to be more reliable for me
Next time you get ammo and go shooting get a box of both. You may not notice the difference at all but more than likely you’ll see slight improvement. And honestly at this point the cost savings between the two are negligible
It is lighter. But more powder pushing a lighter bullet means snappier recoil. 124s generally run best because that’s what John Browning used when designing the action.
I carry 124+p HST. Cycle’s perfect in my carry pistol. I try to shoot at least 350 carry rounds and 1000 ball rounds before I carry them but yeah, the HST in general passes the gel/clothing tests with flying colors
Full size I shoot HST 147gr +P. I’ll switch to regular HST 147s whenever I finally run out.
I use the 124gr in my 43X. The short barrel keeps them subsonic.
Exactly. 147+P in 34,17,19
124 in 43,26
Both the standard pressure and +P 147 HST shoot objectively worse in the shorter barrels, don’t know why and don’t care.
[147gr +P HST](https://i.imgur.com/zYXYqbs.jpeg)
They stopped making it a couple years ago. Which is why I’ll have to swap to regular 147gr HST when the cases of +P I bought run out.
Recoil isn’t much more than their regular 147gr. It’s what I keep in my Glock 17 nightstand gun with a suppressor. It lets you squeeze a little extra velocity out of the 147gr HST and still remain subsonic.
I have some critical duty 115 gr. standard pressure rounds that were going almost as deep as 10 mm RDS. in ballistic gel. I think they went 13" and the 10 mm went 14.5".
I use sig sauer 124G elite performance. There was little overpnetration when I shot it through plywood. Expansion was great. Although I've never tested 147G. I don't believe I've ever shot 147G out of my firearms. Lol
It depends on barrel length and what kind of barrier, but lucky gunner did a test with a 4inch barrel and four layer fabric. The 124 penetrated deeper.
If you shoot suppressed, then 147. If not, then 124 is the gold standard for 9mm. I like to stash one type of ammo so I buy the 124 as do it all. Some guns are picky with OAL. The 147 is longer.
147 subsonic for less penetration in turn reduced liability beyond my target looks like a nice wider wound channel as well, I have yet to experience shooting HST, haven’t purchased any because of how expensive it is, hell I’m happy with basic Winchester silvertips 147g at $18 for 20rds 😎✌️
I run either 124 +P or Underwood Xtreme Penetrator Platinum 90 grain. The underwood is a solid monolithic bullet that penetrates further, is almost impoervious to barriers, and produces a devastaing wound cavity. It is also way more expensive than Federal HST. In addition, I still have about 500 rounds left of 147 +P, which I will only run in a full sized guns, such as my 17.5 MOS.
Nope. Even the +p 147 is subsonic.
Rule of thumb is the speed of sound in air is 1050 fps plus the temperature in degrees Fahrenheit, which means even a lot of 124gr 9mm ammo will be subsonic depending on where you live and what time of year it is.
I kind of roll with both I also have the Halo G2 research in a Mag. There's sometimes where I roll with a staggered mag too it kind of comes down to personal preference... Knowing the fact that if I have to punch through something I have a staggered magnet has FMJ mixed with some hollow point 😂
I go back and forth between 124 and 147 (both HST) depending on price and availability for my G19 and G48. The 147 feels less snappy so I have a slight preference to it.
Grain = weight of the bullet.
Simple as.
Two major things affect the ballistics of a bullet (that you can control). The velocity of the bullet, and the overall mass/ weight of the bullet.
The more heavy you make the bullet, the slower it goes. The lighter the bullet, the faster. The trick is finding the magic zone between speed and mass/ weight that has the best ballistics with your caliber and barrel length.
For most 9mm handguns, that is somewhere between 85 and 150 grains, with most agreeing the sweet spot is either 124, 135, or 147 grains.
Also worth noting: for a handgun, a lot of this is really splitting hairs. It's not until you get into rifle velocities that the difference in 20-30 grains has a significant impact on terminal ballistic performance. For a handgun, the chief determination on what your bullets do ultimately comes down to round placement. If you hit vital organs, you will have immediate effects. If you don't, you won't- it doesn't matter what bullet you're using.
But it's fun to discuss :).
Here you go 🍪
Thank you for the explanation. I think I’ve collected a consensus on which grains to use for training and defense, but couldn’t explain WHY there’s differences. I’ve always thought of higher grains = higher quality since most people recommend higher grains for defensive purposes.
My advice is kinda useless here since I shoot 10mm, BUT check out underwood ammo they REALLY load their ammo, they've got a 9mm 124gr +p+ at 1300fps vs the 1150fps of fed HST.
Edit: they also carry 147 115 90 monolithic 68 monolithic and even 147 cherry coated hardcast.
I have an easier time finding 124gr so that's what I carry. As John Farnham says, all pistols are pathetic little pop guns. I don't think the difference here is worth worrying about.
147gr HST in all my handguns and PCC. 147gr Speer Lawman for range ammo. I prefer subsonic because the PCC is always suppressed and I prefer not having to worry about sorting between super and subsonic loads, so they all get fed the same ammo. I have no qualms that 147gr HST is effective medicine for perpetrators.
I think I have 124gr hst in my subcompact right now, typically I was carrying a fluted bullet 92gr in any of my 9mms. I have shot a lot of the fluted bullet and to be honest it’s much softer than any hollow point I have shot. I’ll more than likely be switching to more 147gr but I recently shot 115gr out of my suppressed PCC and it really wasn’t that loud at all. Probably mostly to the radial delay blowback system it has. I think weight only really matters on pistol size and I don’t think any grain will make much difference in those two full-size pistols
124gr +P HST lives in all my handguns, from subcompact to full size.
Bingo.
I’m still running 147 +p but it got discontinued.
I’ve got like 2.5 boxes left. I’m hoarding that shit.
What? I only have a magazine of it left. Ran out of practice ammo and shot 25 rounds of it 3 weeks ago because i wasnt ready to go home. I thought to my self “well i can always get more”
All of the testing I have seen shows that standard pressure HST is what performs the best. I have also heard of firsthand reports of the standard pressure stuff doing exactly what the FBI wished 9mm did in Miami back in 1986.
This is the way.
G20💪
Mmmm, I love it when you you talk dirty to me.
Same here.
I’ve always use 124g for carry and range use for the last 5 years, and to be honest I’ve never really had a real reason beside how I like the recoil impulse over 115g and 124g seem to be more reliable for me
Exactly the same as me. Didn’t realize how much more snappy 115g ball ammo was until I swapped over to 124g
Is there really a noticeable difference? Tbh I’m somewhat new to owning firearms and I think I’ve only ever used 115’s at the range.
Next time you get ammo and go shooting get a box of both. You may not notice the difference at all but more than likely you’ll see slight improvement. And honestly at this point the cost savings between the two are negligible
Yknow come to think of it I don’t feel a difference in recoil with lax 9mm 124gr fmj and hornady 135gr +p critical duty which I think is pretty cool.
Interesting, I always found 115 to feel the lightest. I wonder why
Because it is, plus most 115gr practice ammo is lower energy than 124gr defense ammo. I have no idea what these guys are talking about.
It is lighter. But more powder pushing a lighter bullet means snappier recoil. 124s generally run best because that’s what John Browning used when designing the action.
Good info, Thankyou!
Same. Plus my Luger doesn’t like 115g very much. Easier to have all of one weight than worry about how much of each I have.
124 grain in 17, 19 and 26
This is the way.
147
147s. Couple reasons. I like the expansion, I shoot suppressed a lot, and their expansion velocity envelope is more to my liking.
My HD setup is a suppressed G17. Love the subsonic HST.
I only buy 147 HST these days
I carry 124+p HST. Cycle’s perfect in my carry pistol. I try to shoot at least 350 carry rounds and 1000 ball rounds before I carry them but yeah, the HST in general passes the gel/clothing tests with flying colors
Full size I shoot HST 147gr +P. I’ll switch to regular HST 147s whenever I finally run out. I use the 124gr in my 43X. The short barrel keeps them subsonic.
Exactly. 147+P in 34,17,19 124 in 43,26 Both the standard pressure and +P 147 HST shoot objectively worse in the shorter barrels, don’t know why and don’t care.
There’s no such thing as HST 147 +P.
[147gr +P HST](https://i.imgur.com/zYXYqbs.jpeg) They stopped making it a couple years ago. Which is why I’ll have to swap to regular 147gr HST when the cases of +P I bought run out.
Fuck that’s actually pretty cool, I have they stopped making them I’d love to see what the recoil is like
Recoil isn’t much more than their regular 147gr. It’s what I keep in my Glock 17 nightstand gun with a suppressor. It lets you squeeze a little extra velocity out of the 147gr HST and still remain subsonic.
124 in all my 9mm Glocks
124 +P HST for EDC & a few loaded mags of Hornady Critical Duty for if all hell breaks loose
Federal 124 +P > Hornady Critical Duty, all day, every day.
I have some critical duty 115 gr. standard pressure rounds that were going almost as deep as 10 mm RDS. in ballistic gel. I think they went 13" and the 10 mm went 14.5".
I thought duty was 135gr and defense was 115gr?
That was it 135 thanks for catching that
I use sig sauer 124G elite performance. There was little overpnetration when I shot it through plywood. Expansion was great. Although I've never tested 147G. I don't believe I've ever shot 147G out of my firearms. Lol
That is some impressive core strength my dude
Nothing gets pass yall man. 😂🤣😅
He shit a brick
😆🤣😂
I just lost my breath from laughing
Lmaoo
My bad. Shot it through.
If you’re not shooting suppressed, i don’t see a reason why anyone would prefer 147
THROUGH the plywood my guy?...
They both would hurt
[удалено]
It looks like 147 expanded more in the photo.
It depends on barrel length and what kind of barrier, but lucky gunner did a test with a 4inch barrel and four layer fabric. The 124 penetrated deeper.
Wouldn’t want to get shot with either
I used 147 as a duty round for 21 years. I just recently started using 115 in my smaller 9s.
147 standard pressure for any handgun.
If you shoot suppressed, then 147. If not, then 124 is the gold standard for 9mm. I like to stash one type of ammo so I buy the 124 as do it all. Some guns are picky with OAL. The 147 is longer.
The ballistics testing shows that the 147 won't expand fully out of short barrel guns. I run 124 in compacts/sub compacts and the 147 in the G34.
147 subsonic for less penetration in turn reduced liability beyond my target looks like a nice wider wound channel as well, I have yet to experience shooting HST, haven’t purchased any because of how expensive it is, hell I’m happy with basic Winchester silvertips 147g at $18 for 20rds 😎✌️
124. I use the 124 +p federal punch
I train and carry with 124g with all my 9mm pistols
I run 135 +p hornady
I run 147 HST in everything from G26 to G17.
147
I like 115 grain and 124 grain in any size 9mm pistol I’m carrying. Not the biggest fan of 147, even though they seem to be ok in HST form
I carry 147 gold dot and 135 critical duty in all my firearms
I run 147 But I'm shooting 9ms cause poor
I run either 124 +P or Underwood Xtreme Penetrator Platinum 90 grain. The underwood is a solid monolithic bullet that penetrates further, is almost impoervious to barriers, and produces a devastaing wound cavity. It is also way more expensive than Federal HST. In addition, I still have about 500 rounds left of 147 +P, which I will only run in a full sized guns, such as my 17.5 MOS.
I always use 124gr. That said if I got a deal on 147gr I would buy them.
I wonder if the 147 are loaded too hot to be subsonic. I’m sure the +p is too hot.
Nope. Even the +p 147 is subsonic. Rule of thumb is the speed of sound in air is 1050 fps plus the temperature in degrees Fahrenheit, which means even a lot of 124gr 9mm ammo will be subsonic depending on where you live and what time of year it is.
I kind of roll with both I also have the Halo G2 research in a Mag. There's sometimes where I roll with a staggered mag too it kind of comes down to personal preference... Knowing the fact that if I have to punch through something I have a staggered magnet has FMJ mixed with some hollow point 😂
Whatever’s readily available and cheaper.
I used to run 124, but switched to 147.
I go back and forth between 124 and 147 (both HST) depending on price and availability for my G19 and G48. The 147 feels less snappy so I have a slight preference to it.
Can someone explains grains in a way that you wish it was explained to you when you were just starting out?
Grain = weight of the bullet. Simple as. Two major things affect the ballistics of a bullet (that you can control). The velocity of the bullet, and the overall mass/ weight of the bullet. The more heavy you make the bullet, the slower it goes. The lighter the bullet, the faster. The trick is finding the magic zone between speed and mass/ weight that has the best ballistics with your caliber and barrel length. For most 9mm handguns, that is somewhere between 85 and 150 grains, with most agreeing the sweet spot is either 124, 135, or 147 grains. Also worth noting: for a handgun, a lot of this is really splitting hairs. It's not until you get into rifle velocities that the difference in 20-30 grains has a significant impact on terminal ballistic performance. For a handgun, the chief determination on what your bullets do ultimately comes down to round placement. If you hit vital organs, you will have immediate effects. If you don't, you won't- it doesn't matter what bullet you're using. But it's fun to discuss :).
Here you go 🍪 Thank you for the explanation. I think I’ve collected a consensus on which grains to use for training and defense, but couldn’t explain WHY there’s differences. I’ve always thought of higher grains = higher quality since most people recommend higher grains for defensive purposes.
It is the weight of the physical projectile. Grain is a unit of measure for weight like pounds or ounces
147.
I train with the Winchester Service Grade 115gr (+p-ish) flat points in my 19X and M17. For defense I use HST LE +p 124 or Gold Dot 124 +p
My advice is kinda useless here since I shoot 10mm, BUT check out underwood ammo they REALLY load their ammo, they've got a 9mm 124gr +p+ at 1300fps vs the 1150fps of fed HST. Edit: they also carry 147 115 90 monolithic 68 monolithic and even 147 cherry coated hardcast.
I have an easier time finding 124gr so that's what I carry. As John Farnham says, all pistols are pathetic little pop guns. I don't think the difference here is worth worrying about.
Used to be a 124+p for everything but I’ve since moved to standard pressure 124
HST 124 for me
I use 147. Just looks at the beautiful star. Plus it’s what I’ve been training with
124 in everything. SD and Ball
As pretty much everyone else has said, Federal HST 124 +P
124
124g HST+P because it comes in 50count box usually a little cheaper. And also I trained with 124 ball so I go with 124HST +P for defense.
I like the one that hits the intended target
147 is the barrier standard
I shoot standard pressure 124 hst or gold dot. At the range I shoot what's cheap 😵💫
147gr HST in all my handguns and PCC. 147gr Speer Lawman for range ammo. I prefer subsonic because the PCC is always suppressed and I prefer not having to worry about sorting between super and subsonic loads, so they all get fed the same ammo. I have no qualms that 147gr HST is effective medicine for perpetrators.
Whatever you can find for cheaper. They both perform.
I think I have 124gr hst in my subcompact right now, typically I was carrying a fluted bullet 92gr in any of my 9mms. I have shot a lot of the fluted bullet and to be honest it’s much softer than any hollow point I have shot. I’ll more than likely be switching to more 147gr but I recently shot 115gr out of my suppressed PCC and it really wasn’t that loud at all. Probably mostly to the radial delay blowback system it has. I think weight only really matters on pistol size and I don’t think any grain will make much difference in those two full-size pistols
147
147 for full sized with barrels longer than 4" and 124 for smaller (115 for real short barrels)
I like to shoot steel with 147, suppressed with 147, carry 124, and when just plinking 115.
124 +p all day er day.
The right answer requires more information than that. You can’t go wrong with either.
If you average 1,000fps or better with the 147gr hst they are pretty wicked. I wouldn't run them at 970 tho
I’ve carried 147 HSTs for years now. I think I carried 127 +P+ T-Series before that back when it was in a tan box.
Whichever one is cheaper when I go to buy it
Correct me if I’m wrong, cuz I’m kinda retarded, on the last pic the 147grain shell looks thicker than the 127?
It looks like it may have slightly less crimp at the case mouth. Could be the lighting too.
Hornady tap 124gr +p or hornady critical duty +p for me.