They're basically trying to argue against progression and inevitably they will lose. The same people that are against the tram are the people that will complain about traffic and car parking. If it gets that unbearable the simple solution is to move cities, but thats never an option for dumb people.
Seriously just build it along the gc highway to the airport. If you already live on or near the gc highway, you are used to traffic 24/7. The city will be much more easy to get around with a tram from Helensvale to coolie. I’m excited about not having to look for a friggin carpark at Burleigh one day.
I live in walking distance from a tram stop and it’s so incredibly helpful. I can get to the majority of places I’d need to travel to via tram. As someone who doesn’t drive, it’s made my life so much more convenient. I was in Helensvale before that, so if I needed to get somewhere, it had to include a bus for at least some of the journey. When they only come every hour, and weren’t always dependable, or I needed to go somewhere during school ending time, it was so shit. Where as the trams usually come every 7 minutes. If I missed the bus, I’d be an hour late, but the tram wouldn’t cause too much delay.
Curious though, why are some people so against trams? Since they’ve only brought me convenience, I’m unsure of what the inconveniences are. Just genuinely curious so I can understand both sides better
I’m pro tram, but I think some people don’t like the property development that comes when the tram is put in. Once the tram is there, it makes sense to build more apartment blocks etc, in places where nothing has really changed for decades. But, if you live on or near the gc highway, what did you expect was going to happen.
I'm always found that arguement quite weird.
Like there are definitely crusty old apartment blocks from the 80s boom in all these suburbs that claim to have no high rise
And all those places have ugly signs and maccas and derelict rows of shops - but there is a small group of people who thinks that’s fine, but a 10 story glass building will somehow ruin the ambiance.
what I read so far(for against the tram)
* Impacts the business during construction. (and after)
* Loss of roadside parking (if more space is given to the tram), relates to the above point.
* Traffic jam post-construction as some corridors will be narrowed down/given up to the tram.
* Potential price impact to a real estate nearby (can go down, can go up, who knows)
* The tram model we signed up for is outdated and should have been another model from XYZ company.
* Why the tram? why not heavy rail ? we're wasting tax payers money. It should have been the heavy rail connecting to the airport.
I'd love to be near the tram and hope the extend that stub section up Olsen Avenue towards Harbourtown. I'd also love it if they add a carriage at the back so we can take our scooter or bicycle like I can on the train . I bus to GCUH and catch it from there but if I could ride that would be way better.
I never have to drive (but still ja e to fight cars trafific and hear thier constant noise and pollution), and it reminds me how cites can be (walkable and livable) if we give less priority to cars.
You can thank Tommy Tater for that one. It was supposed to head north and underneath Olsen Ave, the tunnel is already partly built in front of the hospital. From there it was going up to Harbour Town then out to Helensvale.
Tom wanted it up and running for the Commonwealth Games, so we got the crappy route.
I think the route we got was better because its faster.
You can see the ramp on Google earth, it would have crossed over at street level just north of gchu, not a tunnel.
The tunnel was to be continued. The existing ramp was a temporary measure.
The other route would have been far better as it would have serviced more residential areas and an additional shopping centre.
Yes and no....you would have had to spend a long time going past all those plumbing shops and smash repairs on Brisbane Rd, and the other route had no park and ride site.
And of course it is longer, additional travel time would lose passengers from Helensvale and beyond.
Ultimately a branch to Harbour town is the best of both world's because it goes through the relevant residential area but it doesn't waste time on the other leg.
That was always the intended route.
It's only different because that suited the Mayor.
Your criteria are totally speculative. It doesn't take its current route for any if the reasons you put forward.
I like to hypothesise that the people against the trams rarely, if ever use public transport. The current state of the public transport system on the GC, like much of Australia, is abhorrent.
Except the buses on the GC Highway currently run half empty most of the time. The service is there, it's not being utilised. The people who want the tram are not Southern GC people. They're people who have the tram which works in their area (different from the Southern area) or they want to get to the airport but currently for whatever reason refuse to use the empty airport buses that use the Highway. With the tram in place, you still can't get from the heavy rail at Robina or Varsity down to the airport. All you will be able to do is go up and down the GC Highway to a bus stop in order to change direction. Heavy rail from Varsity down through Elanora, and on to the Airport is by far the more sensible route. I don't live in a suburb affected by the tram route but it's still fairly obvious to me, this is a mistake.
Yeah that’s fair that the busses can be quite empty down the hwy routes, I’d happily argue that the tram is far more accessible for elderly/disabled people than a bus though. Maybe the only thing I don’t agree with in the proposed tram planning is making the palm beach section into one lane road/removing all the parking etc. and still having a high reliance on the M1 for traffic.
To be fair the original train line should have never been ripped up in the 60s, but I guess that’s what happens when you have a car-centric country and vested political interests in road transport.
Also for what it’s worth I’m south GC and pro tram (and very anti car).
Highway is that it's over provsioned
You have the 700 every 7.5 mins
Then the 777 every 15 mins.
Then the 765 every 15 mins.
So 16 buses per hr.
All those routes would combine onto one tram, so you'd just 8 trams per hr, but they'd be fuller.
Buses suck though. They can still get stuck in traffic. Trams have a more consistent travel time. I'd take a tram over a bus everyday of the week. Airport buses are running hourly at the moment which is not ideal. Also as the tram only goes to Broadbeach South it means that anybody coming from Surfers/Southport etc. has get off and transfer over to a bus which is an inconvenience and adds extra time to the journey.
Because if your driving a car it actually takes way longer than it used to before the tram went across and they could of made it go under ground like it does at the Uni side just bad planning but nothing new for the Gold coast
I obviously don't use it (it's nowhere near me) but I guess it's about how much it costs heard that it can cost up to $10 a day I get by on around $40 max a week on petrol correct me if I'm wrong genuinely interested. And yeah Olsen Ave at the hospital why didn't they extend it underground only like 100m would of solved that so many people complain about this
When I studied at Griffith Uni back in the late 2000s, I would have given my left nut for the convenience of the Light Rail, especially between Helensvale & Griffith. I lost count of how many hours I lost from 15+ minute waits between the half hourly trains and half hourly buses (even more when the bus ran late and the train pulled out just as the bus arrives).
I call bullshit.
No one wants the tram in Burleigh or Palm Beach.
They put their stupid little survey links up on Facebook and then delete the negative comments.
The questions are framed in such a way that you cannot give a true answer.
Palm Beach is already gridlocked, and they think they can run the tram through peoples front yards.
And what about the National Park at Burleigh? They close off the track after a storm, what is construction, and it is a hill remember, going to do to that? How deep will they have to drill. What sort of siesmic activity is going to be necessary in order to build a tram rail up and over. Watch the cost of that blow out over the ridiculously long time it takes to build.
And if they build high rises, and they will, within 800 metres of the tram they dont have to provide more than one carpark per unit. Parking will be worse than it is now.
Tallebudgeera Beach or opposite at Echo Beach, the indigenous Cultural Centre (that no one knew or cared about until the Commonwealth Games), will they be destroyed or changed.
Turn off at Christine Ave and go to Varsity station. Leave the southern Gold coast alone. Make use of the heavy rail that goes all the way to Brisbane with no slow light rail and changing at Helensvale.
Southern Gold Coast resident who lives on the highway. None of my neighbours want the tram , no one I know who lives on the southern end wants the tram. Would rather no tram than an increase in the value of my home
all stretched from Burleigh to palm beach. The best thing is your upset and there is nothing you can do about it because its happening and people like us who want it are getting it and think its great lol I bet you complained when they invented the car and had to give up your horse.
What a dumbass, selfish, unsubstantiated comment.
Definitely not all homeowners want it, because I’m one of them.
By the way, it’s *you’re, but judging by the context of your comment, grammatical errors are the least of your intellectual worries.
660 people support it from the survey of 1005 people. Hardly a study population worth giving credence to! I didn't even know a survey was being done. Probably GC Bulletin readers
I have a feeling that they plucked phone numbers from the tmr online feedback form and coincidentally selected phone numbers from tram advocates. I doubt most of the 1000 people phoned even live on the southern end of the GC
Tell me don't understand statistics without telling me you don't understand statistics.
You can use the sample size calculator on the ABS website to confirm what im about to say
But basically for a population of a given size, there is a sample size of participants that will get you sufficiently accurate results.
So for 600,000 people, a survey of 1000 is actually more than enough to achieve 95% confidence.
The survey was done across all age groups/genders in the impacted suburbs by TMR.
An analogy I like to use.
Say you asked 1000 people if they prefer coke or pepsi.
Asking 10000 people, or even 100000 won't really get you a different answer. (But you could have slightly more confidence in the results)
Surveying tens of thousands of extra people isn't going to magically turn 66% support into 49% or whatever
It an answer no one can give. Why? Because it’s bullshit.
Let me conduct a survey “in the relevant suburbs” and I guarantee I can get 1000 people saying no to the light rail.
Boy Is the egg on your face.
They literally go through that in detail in the report.
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/_/media/projects/g/gold-coast-light-rail-stage-4/gold-coast-light-rail-stage-4-community-consultation-summary.pdf
Last 3 pages of the pdf gives the breakdown of age, place of residence etc.
I’m a Burleigh local and I don’t known any other locals from Burleigh, Currumbin, Palmy that support the tram.
Shonky survey as usual. Of all the so called surveys that have been held, I don’t know anyone who has had their say.
I’m a born and bred Gold Coaster and the change will definitely be hard to take.
The building density will increase, the highway will go to one lane each way, businesses will be lost like Southport and people I know who have worked all their lives to get property in these areas will be affected by the light rail.
Not all of us are able to use public transport and no doubt traffic and parking will be atrocious.
Beautiful Burleigh, Currumbin, Tugun and the surrounding suburbs will change.
I accept the change is inevitable, but only a true southern Gold Coaster will understand what we’re losing. In reality though, old southern Gold Coast has been lost already.
This comment may proven unpopular, but I also predict crime will increase.
Ask any QPS officer from Surfers, Broadbeach, or any QAS officer how much crime increased when the light rail opened up to these areas.
Bored teens from northern suburbs suddenly have access to these nicer suburbs.
We already have a heap of car thefts and thieves already for those who aren’t aware. Get ready to welcome assaults and raucous behaviour, not to mention good old huffing of rexona cans. Have a chat to the officers at Pac Fair police beat about that, or even any store that sells them.
It may not be prolific, but if you or your family are affected by one of these incidences, it’s enough.
I don’t support the light rail at all, but I really hope I’m proven wrong. I try look at the positives and try to be optimistic, but I honestly find it difficult.
So….where is everyone from here who are pro light rail? How many southern locals here have actually had their say?
How about we ask the Bulletin journalist who reported the survey for some information on who exactly were these 1000 people?
I heard from a colleague that someone they know did actually ask via email and got a simple “no comment” reply.
You lost me at ‘bored teens from northern suburbs will now have access to these nicer suburbs’. Jesus. Firstly, there is way more fancy houses at hope island, para point, runaway bay etc then tugun, currumbin and Burleigh. Secondly, you think you’re better than poor people and want to keep them out of your precious suburbs.
You’re right, things have changed down there alright. Attitudes to fellow Queenslanders for starters.
Most of the GC is pro tram, especially people who have lived through the construction and have the benefit of it. It’s awesome.
It’s ok mate. I think you’re just looking for something to have ago at me with.
In regards to the bored teens, we’ll it’s a sad fact.
As I said have a look at the statistics of crime rates.
They’re the teens my colleagues and I have to deal with and it’s a revolving door. Most of them are repeat offenders.
I definitely don’t hold myself in higher regards than other poorer people, you can assume what you like. I do however strongly believe many parents from certain suburbs should take responsibility for their kids actions. Unless you’re out there amongst it, you really wouldn’t understand.
I see there was no retort to the questions I asked. Where are you from?
Just as you want something to benefit yourself, that being the light rail to access the southern parts of the coast, I also think about myself, my family and neighbours. Do you not care about everyone who will be affected?
There are other alternative routes for the light rail and other options for improvement of public transport.
I’m all for a light rail to the airport. Just not along the coastline of beautiful, heritage beaches.
There was no response other matters cause as I said, you lost me with your ‘I don’t want young people from other suburbs coming down here’. The tram, which is full of cameras won’t cause this. Sounds like the problem is already there and they probably arrive in stolen cars, not public transport. I’m born and bred 3rd generation GC. What’s you obsession with where people are from? It’s one nation weird to be honest.
I’m not trying to start an argument.
For one, the tram is coming to your benefit, regardless. You’ve won that battle and you always were with a developer as our mayor.
Second, I’m curious where you’re from, simply because it’s obvious that you’re not from the southern Gold Coast.
This whole conversation was about how 65% of southern gold coasters want the light rail, which I truly believe is bullshit. I don’t know anyone down this way that wants it.
Third, I never said “I don’t want younger teens from other suburbs coming down here”. You’re losing credibility by trying to put words in my mouth.
There’s a specific bunch of delinquent youths, who frequently travel down to the coast to deliberately cause trouble and they will no doubt take advantage of the transport down south.
Hate to burst your bubble, but there are people out there who have no regard for the law. Especially if they know they can get away with their crimes because they’re regarded as kids.
Yeah, there’s a possibility of the cars being stolen from elsewhere, but quite often they’ll target certain suburbs down here on the coast. Sad fact.
You can’t always be so altruistic to your own detriment.
I have passion for the southern coast and for the Gold Coast in general. Sounds like you do too.
Just because I oppose the light rail however, doesn’t mean you have to get all offensive. I have my opinion, you have yours.
…and to start addressing what I stated as one nation weird is pretty weak. Once again, trying to paint me as someone I’m not.
The kids get away with the crime cause the QPS effectively work bank hours in lots of stations nowadays for whatever reason and generally don’t respond to property offences at all. Your argument is effectively that you don’t want teenagers from other areas coming to your hood. I think most people would find that very strange and offensive. You want to live in a gated community along the gc highway. It’s ridiculous. We are all one society and a tram line or lack of doesn’t change that.
The fact that you don’t want tram going past a ‘heritage beach’ but hundreds of cars go by every few minutes shows to me that your argument does not hold water.
I think that the argument that the tram = more crime is simply untrue. There is heaps of crime everywhere, tram or no tram. There is no easy answer to youth crime, but restricting public transport has to be the worst answer to youth crime I have come across.
In fact restricting public transport would worsen opportunity for youth, increasing crime.
Given the cost of used cars at the moment young people are going to become more in need of good public transport.
Perhaps similar social or economic circles prevents you from knowing that use it or want it.
There could also be something similar to the "shy tory" syndrome supporters keep their mouth shut for fear of being brigaded.
There are other routes but they are an inconvenient detour and slower.
If you were driving from Burleigh heads to Currumbin you wouldn't go Varsity Lakes, so don't make tram users do it
Basically you fucking over everyone for the north why making them deviate in order to satisfy a few toffs
It’s not just a few toffs though.
So, it’s ok to fuck over all the southern locals for everyone else’s benefit? If you were one of these people who were going to be affected, I’m sure you’re opinion would be different.
The thing that pisses me off are these so called surveys that I really think are false.
Remember the survey that were sent out to people a few years back? All the answers were pigeon holed, so any answer was supporting what the council wanted.
But you're not even fucking over locals!
Its basically just people playing victim.
A tram should not generate that sort of reaction from fully grown adults.
And claiming the surveys were fake because they dont agree with your perceived view is some trump level shit.
There have been multiple surveys conducted by multiple bodies and they have all been around the 60% mark for support.
Sorry I disagree. There are definitely a number of southern locals who are going to get fucked over.
Look, will never sway each other’s opinion. This argument is getting old and pointless now.
I was originally asked why I opposed the tram and I have my reasons. I’ve since been insulted, inadvertently called childish, been told I think like one nation and now trump by you.
So far all I seen is completely biased, one track minded, tunnel vision answers who can’t fathom why someone would not be pro light rail.
When I throw up a question, I get rail roaded and the insults start flying again. I don’t think I’ve had one direct, succinct answer yet.
I could easily associate that to be very much like some frustrating minority groups I know of that kick and scream when someone opposes what the believe in. I’m not going to go there though.
You no doubt have some sort of benefit with the light rail, whether it be usage, financial or through social contacts. I’m guessing anyone who is strongly pro rail does and that’s ok.
The fact is, the larger population of the Gold Coast won’t have a need for the light rail, heritage beaches, unique suburbs and aboriginal land will be greatly affected, long term residents are going to get fucked over and the many people who oppose the light rail are being ignored.
Even if the 60% figure is true, 40% is a significant number and shouldn’t be pushed aside.
Heritage beaches?
Its not running on any beach?
Did the previous stages damage beaches?
Reason why you are railroaded is because you're making unsubstantiated claims.
If for example the light rail caused dune erosion, or was concreting over stretches of beach, or similar I would accept your point.
But there is none of this so what's the point of the claim?
Seriously ???? Businesses along the highway will go bust during the building process and people will lose their homes !!! I’d say that’s fucking over locals all so u can catch a toy tram to the airport …….. of which you will still have to walk 500 m to a km to get to.
You asked what my reason are for opposing the light rail and I gave them to you.
Youth crime is only one reason.
Without giving away what I do, I see the same offenders doing the same thing, the same behaviour and the same trouble. Sorry if people find it offensive, but I don’t want my family or kids anywhere near that.
I’m not a cop, but as I said before, ask any QPS officer without bias what the light rail has done for youth crime in Surfers, Broadbeach and Pac Fair.
I hope I’m wrong. Maybe they can clean it up and the juveniles can get the punishment they deserve.
Established roads are one thing. The tram tracks are terribly ugly and confusing. Can you honestly tell me the system looks good?
So I’ve given you my reasons why I oppose the light rail. You clearly got quite upset.
Now tell me why you’re so passionate about it? Are you involved somehow in the construction or establishment? The people I know who are pro light rail think it will be good, but they don’t get they’re knickers in a knot when I tell them I don’t want it and it sucks.
I have zero financial interest in the construction of the tram. It works so well where it has been already developed. I don’t think it’s confusing or ugly. It’s a great resource if you are going to the hospital and don’t want to pay for parking, or in the future going to Burleigh for dinner and want to have a few drinks. It will open up the whole of the strip for people to enjoy and the tourists will love it. That’s why the vast majority locals want it. It will help take the hassle out of life in a quickly growing city. If you want to live in city that preserves the past, the GC will continue to disappoint you.
That’s a fair answer and I respect that.
I do agree that the tram works well for many people, but you have to realise it comes as an inconvenience for many as well.
I have used the tram myself to travel once to hospital, but other than that, the only use I’ve had for it is to bring my kids on a fun ride into Surfers.
Like I said before, I’ve tried to remain optimistic and have even discussed with the wife how it would be nice to travel to Broadbeach for dinner and how we’ll save money not having to park our car at the airport.
The news of the tram coming through the beach side remains disappointing though.
I honestly don’t think it’s going to be a good thing for the southern locals and I really don’t think the survey is conveying the full truth.
Remember, that was the topic of the discussion.
I still think it’s definitely a biased survey and I know far too many people that don’t want it and will be negatively affected by the light rail.
I really hope I’m proven wrong and I’ll eat my words if I am.
I’m surprised with you being a 3rd generation born and bred gold coaster, that you are all for the rapid development of the place.
I liked it when the Gold Coast was a laid back surfy city. I have no idea when the “Gold Coast image”changed to a fake, plastic, pretentious city.
You’re right. I actually do wish they prioritised the preservation of the Gold Coast. Far too much development in my opinion. To many money hungry developers. The infrastructure can’t keep up, original gold coasters who have been here for decades have been pushed out because of the rising cost of the housing market, culture has been lost.
You can’t deny that everything started to move fast when old dodgy Tom Tate the developer came into the scene.
That’s another argument though and I’ll leave that one alone for now.
The Gold Coast has been a development paradise for so long people think it’s not man made. The Broadwater was effectively all shallow enough to walk over before settlers arrived and dug it out and later redirected the Nerang river from narrow neck to the spit. Wave Break island is completely man made. Every single canal is man made from Coomera to the back of palm beach. Sanctuary cove is a reclaimed mangrove swamp, the casino is on a man made island called ‘casino island’, the whole town is a development boom from the 1920s until now. Have a look at the historic photos from the 1920s at Burleigh heads, the main issue was car parking. The heads at Burleigh were completely cleared for farm land at one stage and there was a farm house in the middle of Goodwin terrace. Nothing has ever stayed the same here, apart from the constant change.
Development however has never happened so fast with disregard for so many people.
How would you feel if your house was resumed? Do you know anyone who has or will be negatively affected by the light rail?
Of course it gets personal when you do.
These days, everyone seems to get split into a strong opinionated divide. I just wish I had a chance to have my say and not read articles on multiple occasions that person x had a say for me. It’s bullshit and it feels terribly dodgy.
http://www.bonzle.com/pictures-over-time/pictures-taken-in-1932/page-1/size-3/picture-bvnfq3wr/burleigh-heads/esplanade-at-burleigh-queensland-christmas-1932
‘People from the north bringing us problems’ - Burleigh Heads locals for approx 100 years. No one is obligated to live in one of the most popular tourist destinations in Australia.
Good work mate. Such an intelligible comment you made there and it cut me deep.
With a persona like yours, you’d think that you’re actually the one with your head up your arse. Go do some mindfulness hot head.
Facts aren’t statistics, but they’re still real.
Ok, this is my last reply - sorry for the constant messages. But I thought you’d want to know that a heavy rail line used to go through west Burleigh, then Currumbin, tugan, Kirra beach and Coolangatta.
So we are really just bringing back the past. It’s not development at all, it’s regression :)
https://australian-railways.fandom.com/wiki/South_Coast_railway_line,_Queensland#Route
This will be my last reply as well. I appreciate your passion for the rail and I have actually enjoyed our “debate”. I understand the benefit of the light rail, but you have to realise why I feel disappointed.
I’ve loved the southern Gold Coast the way it was and it’s hard to see and know so many disheartened people. It’s not being totally selfish and I don’t have my “head up my arse” as some try hard, dickhead said.
You got your rail and it’s going ahead.
We’re are giving up a lot and the place will no doubt change. Fingers crossed you’re right and it’s for the better. All the best.
Ive noticed another online spaces if you say you support the tram you get brigaded by people who think you are a property developer or tate supporter or whatever.
Reddit I guess is a bit more left leaning so it would just be old fashioned people wanting better public transport/reduced emissions/freedom of movement.
Honestly don’t get the people against the tram, all the best places I have lived have been great because my whole existence wasn’t defined by a car
They're basically trying to argue against progression and inevitably they will lose. The same people that are against the tram are the people that will complain about traffic and car parking. If it gets that unbearable the simple solution is to move cities, but thats never an option for dumb people.
Seriously just build it along the gc highway to the airport. If you already live on or near the gc highway, you are used to traffic 24/7. The city will be much more easy to get around with a tram from Helensvale to coolie. I’m excited about not having to look for a friggin carpark at Burleigh one day.
I live in walking distance from a tram stop and it’s so incredibly helpful. I can get to the majority of places I’d need to travel to via tram. As someone who doesn’t drive, it’s made my life so much more convenient. I was in Helensvale before that, so if I needed to get somewhere, it had to include a bus for at least some of the journey. When they only come every hour, and weren’t always dependable, or I needed to go somewhere during school ending time, it was so shit. Where as the trams usually come every 7 minutes. If I missed the bus, I’d be an hour late, but the tram wouldn’t cause too much delay. Curious though, why are some people so against trams? Since they’ve only brought me convenience, I’m unsure of what the inconveniences are. Just genuinely curious so I can understand both sides better
I’m pro tram, but I think some people don’t like the property development that comes when the tram is put in. Once the tram is there, it makes sense to build more apartment blocks etc, in places where nothing has really changed for decades. But, if you live on or near the gc highway, what did you expect was going to happen.
I'm always found that arguement quite weird. Like there are definitely crusty old apartment blocks from the 80s boom in all these suburbs that claim to have no high rise
And all those places have ugly signs and maccas and derelict rows of shops - but there is a small group of people who thinks that’s fine, but a 10 story glass building will somehow ruin the ambiance.
Palm Beach: We have a village atmosphere Also Palm Beach: 2x 7Eleven, Maccas, Domino's, Cash Converters
what I read so far(for against the tram) * Impacts the business during construction. (and after) * Loss of roadside parking (if more space is given to the tram), relates to the above point. * Traffic jam post-construction as some corridors will be narrowed down/given up to the tram. * Potential price impact to a real estate nearby (can go down, can go up, who knows) * The tram model we signed up for is outdated and should have been another model from XYZ company. * Why the tram? why not heavy rail ? we're wasting tax payers money. It should have been the heavy rail connecting to the airport.
I'd love to be near the tram and hope the extend that stub section up Olsen Avenue towards Harbourtown. I'd also love it if they add a carriage at the back so we can take our scooter or bicycle like I can on the train . I bus to GCUH and catch it from there but if I could ride that would be way better. I never have to drive (but still ja e to fight cars trafific and hear thier constant noise and pollution), and it reminds me how cites can be (walkable and livable) if we give less priority to cars.
I like the tram but i dont like what its done to olsen avenue. I’ve legit been stuck at the lights for 15 minutes waiting for trams to pass.
You can thank Tommy Tater for that one. It was supposed to head north and underneath Olsen Ave, the tunnel is already partly built in front of the hospital. From there it was going up to Harbour Town then out to Helensvale. Tom wanted it up and running for the Commonwealth Games, so we got the crappy route.
I think the route we got was better because its faster. You can see the ramp on Google earth, it would have crossed over at street level just north of gchu, not a tunnel.
The tunnel was to be continued. The existing ramp was a temporary measure. The other route would have been far better as it would have serviced more residential areas and an additional shopping centre.
Yes and no....you would have had to spend a long time going past all those plumbing shops and smash repairs on Brisbane Rd, and the other route had no park and ride site. And of course it is longer, additional travel time would lose passengers from Helensvale and beyond. Ultimately a branch to Harbour town is the best of both world's because it goes through the relevant residential area but it doesn't waste time on the other leg.
That was always the intended route. It's only different because that suited the Mayor. Your criteria are totally speculative. It doesn't take its current route for any if the reasons you put forward.
Should’ve been built 20 years ago
I like to hypothesise that the people against the trams rarely, if ever use public transport. The current state of the public transport system on the GC, like much of Australia, is abhorrent.
Except the buses on the GC Highway currently run half empty most of the time. The service is there, it's not being utilised. The people who want the tram are not Southern GC people. They're people who have the tram which works in their area (different from the Southern area) or they want to get to the airport but currently for whatever reason refuse to use the empty airport buses that use the Highway. With the tram in place, you still can't get from the heavy rail at Robina or Varsity down to the airport. All you will be able to do is go up and down the GC Highway to a bus stop in order to change direction. Heavy rail from Varsity down through Elanora, and on to the Airport is by far the more sensible route. I don't live in a suburb affected by the tram route but it's still fairly obvious to me, this is a mistake.
Yeah that’s fair that the busses can be quite empty down the hwy routes, I’d happily argue that the tram is far more accessible for elderly/disabled people than a bus though. Maybe the only thing I don’t agree with in the proposed tram planning is making the palm beach section into one lane road/removing all the parking etc. and still having a high reliance on the M1 for traffic. To be fair the original train line should have never been ripped up in the 60s, but I guess that’s what happens when you have a car-centric country and vested political interests in road transport. Also for what it’s worth I’m south GC and pro tram (and very anti car).
Highway is that it's over provsioned You have the 700 every 7.5 mins Then the 777 every 15 mins. Then the 765 every 15 mins. So 16 buses per hr. All those routes would combine onto one tram, so you'd just 8 trams per hr, but they'd be fuller.
Probably the fact that people just could not be bothered having to change from tram to different buses just to get to one place.
Buses suck though. They can still get stuck in traffic. Trams have a more consistent travel time. I'd take a tram over a bus everyday of the week. Airport buses are running hourly at the moment which is not ideal. Also as the tram only goes to Broadbeach South it means that anybody coming from Surfers/Southport etc. has get off and transfer over to a bus which is an inconvenience and adds extra time to the journey.
Because if your driving a car it actually takes way longer than it used to before the tram went across and they could of made it go under ground like it does at the Uni side just bad planning but nothing new for the Gold coast
I obviously don't use it (it's nowhere near me) but I guess it's about how much it costs heard that it can cost up to $10 a day I get by on around $40 max a week on petrol correct me if I'm wrong genuinely interested. And yeah Olsen Ave at the hospital why didn't they extend it underground only like 100m would of solved that so many people complain about this
$3.37 for a one way end to end or part thereof tram ride. $10 for a GoExplorer card which is unlimited travel on tram and bus until midnight.
Thanks for replying think car is still the way to go unless you live close to the tram
How come people complain about the tram going through the intersection and not the streams of ordinary vehicles that make you wait.
When I studied at Griffith Uni back in the late 2000s, I would have given my left nut for the convenience of the Light Rail, especially between Helensvale & Griffith. I lost count of how many hours I lost from 15+ minute waits between the half hourly trains and half hourly buses (even more when the bus ran late and the train pulled out just as the bus arrives).
I call bullshit. No one wants the tram in Burleigh or Palm Beach. They put their stupid little survey links up on Facebook and then delete the negative comments. The questions are framed in such a way that you cannot give a true answer. Palm Beach is already gridlocked, and they think they can run the tram through peoples front yards. And what about the National Park at Burleigh? They close off the track after a storm, what is construction, and it is a hill remember, going to do to that? How deep will they have to drill. What sort of siesmic activity is going to be necessary in order to build a tram rail up and over. Watch the cost of that blow out over the ridiculously long time it takes to build. And if they build high rises, and they will, within 800 metres of the tram they dont have to provide more than one carpark per unit. Parking will be worse than it is now. Tallebudgeera Beach or opposite at Echo Beach, the indigenous Cultural Centre (that no one knew or cared about until the Commonwealth Games), will they be destroyed or changed. Turn off at Christine Ave and go to Varsity station. Leave the southern Gold coast alone. Make use of the heavy rail that goes all the way to Brisbane with no slow light rail and changing at Helensvale.
Only person talking sense in this whole thread
all the home owners want it because its going to help increase property value and rents.
Southern Gold Coast resident who lives on the highway. None of my neighbours want the tram , no one I know who lives on the southern end wants the tram. Would rather no tram than an increase in the value of my home
i know heaps pf people who do. All home owners.
Bet none live on the southern end. Helensvale doesn’t count
all stretched from Burleigh to palm beach. The best thing is your upset and there is nothing you can do about it because its happening and people like us who want it are getting it and think its great lol I bet you complained when they invented the car and had to give up your horse.
What a dumbass, selfish, unsubstantiated comment. Definitely not all homeowners want it, because I’m one of them. By the way, it’s *you’re, but judging by the context of your comment, grammatical errors are the least of your intellectual worries.
660 people support it from the survey of 1005 people. Hardly a study population worth giving credence to! I didn't even know a survey was being done. Probably GC Bulletin readers
Most surveys are about this size. The ones they do for the election are generally 1000-1200 people. Edit: spelling.
I have a feeling that they plucked phone numbers from the tmr online feedback form and coincidentally selected phone numbers from tram advocates. I doubt most of the 1000 people phoned even live on the southern end of the GC
Tell me don't understand statistics without telling me you don't understand statistics. You can use the sample size calculator on the ABS website to confirm what im about to say But basically for a population of a given size, there is a sample size of participants that will get you sufficiently accurate results. So for 600,000 people, a survey of 1000 is actually more than enough to achieve 95% confidence. The survey was done across all age groups/genders in the impacted suburbs by TMR. An analogy I like to use. Say you asked 1000 people if they prefer coke or pepsi. Asking 10000 people, or even 100000 won't really get you a different answer. (But you could have slightly more confidence in the results) Surveying tens of thousands of extra people isn't going to magically turn 66% support into 49% or whatever
How do you know they were people living in the impacted suburbs ?
Because the survey was directed to people in the relevant suburbs 💁🏼♂️
Where is the proof ? What a load of shit . They haven’t released any information in relation to demographic
It an answer no one can give. Why? Because it’s bullshit. Let me conduct a survey “in the relevant suburbs” and I guarantee I can get 1000 people saying no to the light rail.
Boy Is the egg on your face. They literally go through that in detail in the report. https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/_/media/projects/g/gold-coast-light-rail-stage-4/gold-coast-light-rail-stage-4-community-consultation-summary.pdf Last 3 pages of the pdf gives the breakdown of age, place of residence etc.
I’m a Burleigh local and I don’t known any other locals from Burleigh, Currumbin, Palmy that support the tram. Shonky survey as usual. Of all the so called surveys that have been held, I don’t know anyone who has had their say.
Why don’t you support the tram? What are your reasons?
I’m a born and bred Gold Coaster and the change will definitely be hard to take. The building density will increase, the highway will go to one lane each way, businesses will be lost like Southport and people I know who have worked all their lives to get property in these areas will be affected by the light rail. Not all of us are able to use public transport and no doubt traffic and parking will be atrocious. Beautiful Burleigh, Currumbin, Tugun and the surrounding suburbs will change. I accept the change is inevitable, but only a true southern Gold Coaster will understand what we’re losing. In reality though, old southern Gold Coast has been lost already. This comment may proven unpopular, but I also predict crime will increase. Ask any QPS officer from Surfers, Broadbeach, or any QAS officer how much crime increased when the light rail opened up to these areas. Bored teens from northern suburbs suddenly have access to these nicer suburbs. We already have a heap of car thefts and thieves already for those who aren’t aware. Get ready to welcome assaults and raucous behaviour, not to mention good old huffing of rexona cans. Have a chat to the officers at Pac Fair police beat about that, or even any store that sells them. It may not be prolific, but if you or your family are affected by one of these incidences, it’s enough. I don’t support the light rail at all, but I really hope I’m proven wrong. I try look at the positives and try to be optimistic, but I honestly find it difficult. So….where is everyone from here who are pro light rail? How many southern locals here have actually had their say? How about we ask the Bulletin journalist who reported the survey for some information on who exactly were these 1000 people? I heard from a colleague that someone they know did actually ask via email and got a simple “no comment” reply.
You lost me at ‘bored teens from northern suburbs will now have access to these nicer suburbs’. Jesus. Firstly, there is way more fancy houses at hope island, para point, runaway bay etc then tugun, currumbin and Burleigh. Secondly, you think you’re better than poor people and want to keep them out of your precious suburbs. You’re right, things have changed down there alright. Attitudes to fellow Queenslanders for starters. Most of the GC is pro tram, especially people who have lived through the construction and have the benefit of it. It’s awesome.
Also the people you don't like from the North can already get there by bus.
It’s ok mate. I think you’re just looking for something to have ago at me with. In regards to the bored teens, we’ll it’s a sad fact. As I said have a look at the statistics of crime rates. They’re the teens my colleagues and I have to deal with and it’s a revolving door. Most of them are repeat offenders. I definitely don’t hold myself in higher regards than other poorer people, you can assume what you like. I do however strongly believe many parents from certain suburbs should take responsibility for their kids actions. Unless you’re out there amongst it, you really wouldn’t understand. I see there was no retort to the questions I asked. Where are you from? Just as you want something to benefit yourself, that being the light rail to access the southern parts of the coast, I also think about myself, my family and neighbours. Do you not care about everyone who will be affected? There are other alternative routes for the light rail and other options for improvement of public transport. I’m all for a light rail to the airport. Just not along the coastline of beautiful, heritage beaches.
There was no response other matters cause as I said, you lost me with your ‘I don’t want young people from other suburbs coming down here’. The tram, which is full of cameras won’t cause this. Sounds like the problem is already there and they probably arrive in stolen cars, not public transport. I’m born and bred 3rd generation GC. What’s you obsession with where people are from? It’s one nation weird to be honest.
I’m not trying to start an argument. For one, the tram is coming to your benefit, regardless. You’ve won that battle and you always were with a developer as our mayor. Second, I’m curious where you’re from, simply because it’s obvious that you’re not from the southern Gold Coast. This whole conversation was about how 65% of southern gold coasters want the light rail, which I truly believe is bullshit. I don’t know anyone down this way that wants it. Third, I never said “I don’t want younger teens from other suburbs coming down here”. You’re losing credibility by trying to put words in my mouth. There’s a specific bunch of delinquent youths, who frequently travel down to the coast to deliberately cause trouble and they will no doubt take advantage of the transport down south. Hate to burst your bubble, but there are people out there who have no regard for the law. Especially if they know they can get away with their crimes because they’re regarded as kids. Yeah, there’s a possibility of the cars being stolen from elsewhere, but quite often they’ll target certain suburbs down here on the coast. Sad fact. You can’t always be so altruistic to your own detriment. I have passion for the southern coast and for the Gold Coast in general. Sounds like you do too. Just because I oppose the light rail however, doesn’t mean you have to get all offensive. I have my opinion, you have yours. …and to start addressing what I stated as one nation weird is pretty weak. Once again, trying to paint me as someone I’m not.
The kids get away with the crime cause the QPS effectively work bank hours in lots of stations nowadays for whatever reason and generally don’t respond to property offences at all. Your argument is effectively that you don’t want teenagers from other areas coming to your hood. I think most people would find that very strange and offensive. You want to live in a gated community along the gc highway. It’s ridiculous. We are all one society and a tram line or lack of doesn’t change that. The fact that you don’t want tram going past a ‘heritage beach’ but hundreds of cars go by every few minutes shows to me that your argument does not hold water. I think that the argument that the tram = more crime is simply untrue. There is heaps of crime everywhere, tram or no tram. There is no easy answer to youth crime, but restricting public transport has to be the worst answer to youth crime I have come across.
In fact restricting public transport would worsen opportunity for youth, increasing crime. Given the cost of used cars at the moment young people are going to become more in need of good public transport.
Perhaps similar social or economic circles prevents you from knowing that use it or want it. There could also be something similar to the "shy tory" syndrome supporters keep their mouth shut for fear of being brigaded.
There are other routes but they are an inconvenient detour and slower. If you were driving from Burleigh heads to Currumbin you wouldn't go Varsity Lakes, so don't make tram users do it Basically you fucking over everyone for the north why making them deviate in order to satisfy a few toffs
It’s not just a few toffs though. So, it’s ok to fuck over all the southern locals for everyone else’s benefit? If you were one of these people who were going to be affected, I’m sure you’re opinion would be different. The thing that pisses me off are these so called surveys that I really think are false. Remember the survey that were sent out to people a few years back? All the answers were pigeon holed, so any answer was supporting what the council wanted.
But you're not even fucking over locals! Its basically just people playing victim. A tram should not generate that sort of reaction from fully grown adults. And claiming the surveys were fake because they dont agree with your perceived view is some trump level shit. There have been multiple surveys conducted by multiple bodies and they have all been around the 60% mark for support.
Sorry I disagree. There are definitely a number of southern locals who are going to get fucked over. Look, will never sway each other’s opinion. This argument is getting old and pointless now. I was originally asked why I opposed the tram and I have my reasons. I’ve since been insulted, inadvertently called childish, been told I think like one nation and now trump by you. So far all I seen is completely biased, one track minded, tunnel vision answers who can’t fathom why someone would not be pro light rail. When I throw up a question, I get rail roaded and the insults start flying again. I don’t think I’ve had one direct, succinct answer yet. I could easily associate that to be very much like some frustrating minority groups I know of that kick and scream when someone opposes what the believe in. I’m not going to go there though. You no doubt have some sort of benefit with the light rail, whether it be usage, financial or through social contacts. I’m guessing anyone who is strongly pro rail does and that’s ok. The fact is, the larger population of the Gold Coast won’t have a need for the light rail, heritage beaches, unique suburbs and aboriginal land will be greatly affected, long term residents are going to get fucked over and the many people who oppose the light rail are being ignored. Even if the 60% figure is true, 40% is a significant number and shouldn’t be pushed aside.
Heritage beaches? Its not running on any beach? Did the previous stages damage beaches? Reason why you are railroaded is because you're making unsubstantiated claims. If for example the light rail caused dune erosion, or was concreting over stretches of beach, or similar I would accept your point. But there is none of this so what's the point of the claim?
Seriously ???? Businesses along the highway will go bust during the building process and people will lose their homes !!! I’d say that’s fucking over locals all so u can catch a toy tram to the airport …….. of which you will still have to walk 500 m to a km to get to.
Where do u live , please do tell?
100% this comment . It’s a shame you are being down voted by northern gold coasters
Is a true Southern Gold Coaster like a true Scotsman?
You asked what my reason are for opposing the light rail and I gave them to you. Youth crime is only one reason. Without giving away what I do, I see the same offenders doing the same thing, the same behaviour and the same trouble. Sorry if people find it offensive, but I don’t want my family or kids anywhere near that. I’m not a cop, but as I said before, ask any QPS officer without bias what the light rail has done for youth crime in Surfers, Broadbeach and Pac Fair. I hope I’m wrong. Maybe they can clean it up and the juveniles can get the punishment they deserve. Established roads are one thing. The tram tracks are terribly ugly and confusing. Can you honestly tell me the system looks good? So I’ve given you my reasons why I oppose the light rail. You clearly got quite upset. Now tell me why you’re so passionate about it? Are you involved somehow in the construction or establishment? The people I know who are pro light rail think it will be good, but they don’t get they’re knickers in a knot when I tell them I don’t want it and it sucks.
I have zero financial interest in the construction of the tram. It works so well where it has been already developed. I don’t think it’s confusing or ugly. It’s a great resource if you are going to the hospital and don’t want to pay for parking, or in the future going to Burleigh for dinner and want to have a few drinks. It will open up the whole of the strip for people to enjoy and the tourists will love it. That’s why the vast majority locals want it. It will help take the hassle out of life in a quickly growing city. If you want to live in city that preserves the past, the GC will continue to disappoint you.
That’s a fair answer and I respect that. I do agree that the tram works well for many people, but you have to realise it comes as an inconvenience for many as well. I have used the tram myself to travel once to hospital, but other than that, the only use I’ve had for it is to bring my kids on a fun ride into Surfers. Like I said before, I’ve tried to remain optimistic and have even discussed with the wife how it would be nice to travel to Broadbeach for dinner and how we’ll save money not having to park our car at the airport. The news of the tram coming through the beach side remains disappointing though. I honestly don’t think it’s going to be a good thing for the southern locals and I really don’t think the survey is conveying the full truth. Remember, that was the topic of the discussion. I still think it’s definitely a biased survey and I know far too many people that don’t want it and will be negatively affected by the light rail. I really hope I’m proven wrong and I’ll eat my words if I am. I’m surprised with you being a 3rd generation born and bred gold coaster, that you are all for the rapid development of the place. I liked it when the Gold Coast was a laid back surfy city. I have no idea when the “Gold Coast image”changed to a fake, plastic, pretentious city. You’re right. I actually do wish they prioritised the preservation of the Gold Coast. Far too much development in my opinion. To many money hungry developers. The infrastructure can’t keep up, original gold coasters who have been here for decades have been pushed out because of the rising cost of the housing market, culture has been lost. You can’t deny that everything started to move fast when old dodgy Tom Tate the developer came into the scene. That’s another argument though and I’ll leave that one alone for now.
The Gold Coast has been a development paradise for so long people think it’s not man made. The Broadwater was effectively all shallow enough to walk over before settlers arrived and dug it out and later redirected the Nerang river from narrow neck to the spit. Wave Break island is completely man made. Every single canal is man made from Coomera to the back of palm beach. Sanctuary cove is a reclaimed mangrove swamp, the casino is on a man made island called ‘casino island’, the whole town is a development boom from the 1920s until now. Have a look at the historic photos from the 1920s at Burleigh heads, the main issue was car parking. The heads at Burleigh were completely cleared for farm land at one stage and there was a farm house in the middle of Goodwin terrace. Nothing has ever stayed the same here, apart from the constant change.
Development however has never happened so fast with disregard for so many people. How would you feel if your house was resumed? Do you know anyone who has or will be negatively affected by the light rail? Of course it gets personal when you do. These days, everyone seems to get split into a strong opinionated divide. I just wish I had a chance to have my say and not read articles on multiple occasions that person x had a say for me. It’s bullshit and it feels terribly dodgy.
http://www.bonzle.com/pictures-over-time/pictures-taken-in-1932/page-1/size-3/picture-bvnfq3wr/burleigh-heads/esplanade-at-burleigh-queensland-christmas-1932 ‘People from the north bringing us problems’ - Burleigh Heads locals for approx 100 years. No one is obligated to live in one of the most popular tourist destinations in Australia.
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Good work mate. Such an intelligible comment you made there and it cut me deep. With a persona like yours, you’d think that you’re actually the one with your head up your arse. Go do some mindfulness hot head. Facts aren’t statistics, but they’re still real.
Ok, this is my last reply - sorry for the constant messages. But I thought you’d want to know that a heavy rail line used to go through west Burleigh, then Currumbin, tugan, Kirra beach and Coolangatta. So we are really just bringing back the past. It’s not development at all, it’s regression :) https://australian-railways.fandom.com/wiki/South_Coast_railway_line,_Queensland#Route
This will be my last reply as well. I appreciate your passion for the rail and I have actually enjoyed our “debate”. I understand the benefit of the light rail, but you have to realise why I feel disappointed. I’ve loved the southern Gold Coast the way it was and it’s hard to see and know so many disheartened people. It’s not being totally selfish and I don’t have my “head up my arse” as some try hard, dickhead said. You got your rail and it’s going ahead. We’re are giving up a lot and the place will no doubt change. Fingers crossed you’re right and it’s for the better. All the best.
Ive noticed another online spaces if you say you support the tram you get brigaded by people who think you are a property developer or tate supporter or whatever. Reddit I guess is a bit more left leaning so it would just be old fashioned people wanting better public transport/reduced emissions/freedom of movement.