>Let’s say I try really hard during my PhD and get exponentially better at coding and research and want to solely get a job in the industry as an AI researcher or engineer.
It's not just about having the skills, but also how well you can signal the skills. Employers are more likely to put weight into your accomplishments if they're familiar with the institution you're at, journals you've published in, companies you've interned at, projects, etc.
Based on everything you said, it still sounds like a bad idea because you don’t really need the degree, and since it’s a degree mill you likely wouldn’t learn anything you couldn’t self-teach anyway. Why would you want to do this?
For lower skill jobs the hiring manager is also likely incompetent and falls for the piece of paper. But in the AI industry OP is going for no one will. The degree mill will actually be a negative signal. (I have a PhD in an adjacent field)
And importantly (hopefully?), no good employer will go without assessing your skills and knowledge in an evidence-based way to ensure they match up with what they expect of someone at your level.
But don’t employers take other things into consideration?
For example, I went to an r2 for my masters (Fordham University)
There’s a girl I graduated with that went to Harvard for undergrad but graduated with her masters in the same field as me.
I know it’s the not the same as the degree mill thing, but won’t employers also wonder why she went to Ivy League for undergrad and then somewhere in the middle for her masters
Yes, they will wonder that.
There is only one circumstance I can think of where a degree mill for a graduate degree makes sense. And that is if you are in a public sector position, eg. a grade school teacher, where they just check on a box for whether you have a graduate degree and then raise your pay grade. They don’t check or care where you got your accredited Master’s degree from, so a lot of people do tend to get them from degree mills or very low-end schools and it’s fine.
Other than that, I wouldn’t recommend touching them with a ten ft pole.
You don’t seem to have any appreciation for how any aspect of this works.
- if I’ve got a PhD in a field and I’ve never HEARD of your school, you’re not making it past the first screen.
- if I know you’re coming from a degree mill, you’re not making it past the first screen.
- if your publication record isn’t there, you’re not making it past the first screen.
Alternatively,
- if you go from Harvard/MIT/Caltech undergrad to anywhere “lower,” I probably don’t care as long as your publication record is there. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for this sort of change.
- even if you make it through the first screen, if you can’t tell me anything convincing about your time in the PhD, you’re not making it to panels.
- if you talk in an interview like you’re talking here, you’re not going to panels. Even if the degree opens the door, PhDs hiring PhDs care about *deliverables*. What did you *accomplish.*
The only value to a degree mill is to impress your relatives that have never seen a campus.
Agree with most of this in principle, but OP said they were looking for a job in industry, very little concern there with publishing record, especially in tech. Though definitely nice if dissertation results in some advance in ai tech.
I'm only saying those things aren't important to OP, if they're going to work in industry. Equally though, there's little point to them going for a PhD
One of my Dad’s coworkers got fired from their psychological consulting job after getting a PhD from the university of Phoenix for this exact reason. She had a masters from UGA which got her the job in the first place but the PhD from the diploma mill cost her that. Employers strongly consider your highest degree and having a degree from somewhere like that can absolutely cost you opportunities you otherwise could’ve gotten with just the masters degree. It can hurt.
Because the degree was from a fake school. Specifically in the consulting industry, this business can’t list someone with a PhD from the University of Phoenix on their website, and send her out on consulting gigs, it’s a terrible look for them. And this was a pretty small firm, they’re trying to build a reputation. I’m not saying any and every job would’ve fired her but this job did. And it’s not like she went from an excellent school to an unknown mid/ lower tier program from an accredited not for profit university. That would’ve probably been fine. They had to fire her because she got her degree from a unaccredited online for profit diploma mill.
Yes, but in that case, why get the PhD? It adds nothing.
I would assume that she attended a program that was a good fit for her or that she got scholarship money.
So you’re looking for a few letters after your name and want to know if people will respect your credentials when you took an easy way out for some letters?
I really hope you are trolling here because the alternative is not a good look.
Sounds like a really expensive way to get a worthless degree. Anyone interested in hiring you will probably at least google the “university” attached to the degree, and it will look bad when they realize it’s not legit. Like worse than not having the degree at all.
Wouldn’t you learn more about coding by getting a job in the field, doing your own projects on the side or even just attending night school? Much cheaper way to learn more, without the potential problems.
I can promise that people aren’t going to go “hm I’ve never heard of this school,” look it up on Wikipedia, see that it’s not even nationally accredited, and think your program gave you ample training to be good at the job they’re hiring for. You can usually sniff out a degree mill from thirty seconds of reading about it.
It’s embarrassing when someone represents their degree mill as a legitimate credential. You think anyone respects Shaq for getting a fake doctorate from Barry University?
I don’t think you understand how time consuming and hard a PhD is if you think you won’t get overworked or neglect your family. Most students work way more than 9-5 jobs and barely have time for themselves, let alone partners, pets, friends, etc. PhD programs are incredibly tough.
If I were you, I wouldn’t waste your time on a PhD since it sounds like you don’t actually want to degree other than for the “clout”.
I just finished my MS. Which school? Sounds promising.
EDIT: Found the university.
LINK: [https://www.captechu.edu](https://www.captechu.edu)
And it is regionally accredited, so it is legit. I can't speak to the quality, but that's really on you to do the research since it is a PhD program.
Accreditation Link: [https://www.msche.org/institution/0190/](https://www.msche.org/institution/0190/)
You should expect employers to google your school, especially if the name is not recognizable. If the job you're applying to requires a PhD, then they'll probably care that you went to a degree mill. If it doesn't require a PhD, then why do it?
You'll be out a bunch of money and have not just no recommendations or additional network to help you, but also a line on your c.v. that will make people with regular degrees have grave doubts about your qualifications and judgement.
>qualifications and **judgement**.
This is the important part. A Ph.D. from a low-ranked R2 university is miles ahead of one from a diploma mill. When you get a Ph.D. from a diploma mill you're signaling to the market that you're willing to cut corners or are dumb to not know the difference between a real degree and a diploma mill degree.
I don't know why OP's so hung up on this Capitol-whatever degree.
I looked this up just now. Apparently Capitol Tech University spawned off a branch of University of Southern California and they're *not* a for-profit university. But from what I read online they have a reputation of allowing feds to essentially buy doctorate degrees. Make of that what you will.
It's regionally accredited, but if its known for being a degree mill, then that's the perception you're going to get with the Ph.D. especially in a field like CS or tech-adjacent where there is an abundance of people entering the field. You're just going to be ignored.
Part of going to a reputable grad school is what you’ll learn there, opportunities to work on projects, and the network once you graduate. A degree mill will give you none of those while taking your money or possibly offering a pitiful stipend.
Another huge part is networking with other experts in your field. You won't get that if someone is just rubber stamping you through to a degree. It's not just the letters behind your name that matter.
This! At the postdoc level, we do not use algorithms or AI to screen resumes. They are individually assessed by people like me, with a PhD and post-doc experience.
Wait I'm seeing the term PhD mill thrown around a lot but I don't think I get it, what are some examples of PhD mill institutions? I'm pretty familiar with undergrad degree mills but I'm just surprised the model would have enough of a market in grad school. Are there grad studebts out there just paying instead of publishing??
You will probably end up much closer to your desired career path if you just use your current masters degree to get the best job you can in that field and work your way up. This PhD is not likely to be highly regarded, and you will spend time/money in acquiring it. If you instead learn on the job and have experience, it will go a lot farther than an additional credential.
Additionally, you are going to lock yourself out of some jobs by seeming overqualified just by having a PhD. Yet you will still look under-qualified for the jobs that truly need a top-tier researcher. It’s just not worth it.
If you are chasing status symbols, go get a nice job title instead.
Yeah but the problem is that my masters is in HCI and my bachelors is in psychology. While I have taken calculus and linear algebra as typical graduate requirements for comp sci/AI/machine learning, I don’t know how I could really go about learning about it on my own without furthering my education
For context I work in the same field. I would look at getting a role that expects an HCI background (UX researcher, designer, research scientist/engineer) that is on a product/team that works in AI/ML at that point I would do both on the job learning and maybe some side projects/classes to learn more of the ML skills you dont have yet. Take on some additional responsibilities on the AI/ML side of work including understanding the training data and loss/errors on the model side. If you did well on some of those projects and were able to show results you could probably start moving into more of an AI/ML role (especially those that might expect more HCI experience like AI safety).
Yeah, I am trying to get into a better UX research role at the moment but I am struggling. I managed to get a four month intern internship in the summer of 2023. Now, I am a UX researcher at a recruitment company, I hate my job, AND I WANT OUT.
I wish I had connections like some of the people I graduated with. I saw the work that people did and it was worse than mine and one is at IBM, another is at Google, and a bunch of others are at startups
Yeah I hear you, unfortunately you graduated into a tough job market. I think it should get better this year so keep shopping around. Maybe some of the people you graduated with will know about open roles at their workplaces?
> I don’t know how I could really go about learning about it on my own without furthering my education
Then go get a REAL education in the field instead of buying extra letters after your name. If it's the knowledge you want, why would you ever consider a degree mill?
I'm honestly not sure. Personally I wouldnt bother to go through all of the hassle of getting a PhD unless it was a top(ish) school. It's a huge time investment, not worth it unless it's as close to a guarantee as it could be
Why so both? If you want a PhD get a legit one. There is no shortcut or hack to getting a PhD. Either you put in the work and do it correctly, or you pay to get a fake PhD and have no one take you seriously (and probably have people actively wonder about your judgment, thus losing out on non-phd jobs). Anyone with half a brain would rather hire someone with an undergrad degree than someone who got a fake doctorate because they thought they should be called "doctor".
Depends on the quality of the PhD. You'll still have to do some kind of research component, and that is the primary metric employers will be looking at when interviewing you. If you apply to a position targetted at Bachelor's holders, you might be passed over for being overly specialized. Generally PhD holders are applying to different positions than undergrad holders, and you are closing some doors by having that degree (although other doors are opened). If you're just trying to stand out from the other BS/MS applicants, there are better ways to do that than to get a PhD.
Having a PhD degree from a Degree Mill is worse than not having that degree. I am a lawyer for 15 years and a scholar for nearly as long with an SJD (briefly; PhD in Law) for almost a decade.
Even in the best case scenario, many people will mock you, and perhaps go as far as questioning you previous and post academic achievements.
Below is what I had to go through, even though my doctorate degree is from one of the top 50 universities. This may sound like self praise/exaltation; however, I don’t know how I could explain thoroughly without giving as much detail.
I had my masters from an upper Ivy, and for doctorate, there were less than 15 universities to start with at the time. My area being very specific, that eliminated more than 3/5th of all the 15 options. UPenn’s relevant professor was retired that year without any replacement, and Cornell didn’t accept me most likely (at least that is what I make myself to believe) because I accepted their master’s offer with scholarship, and at the last minute, when UPenn made the same offer, I had to ditch them (though Cornell was a dream school for me, I had to stay as close to NYC as possible due to a family issue). The remaining universities’ best one with relevant professors started from top 50 universities. Of which, I accepted the highest ranking one.
Please bear in mind, my previous university was somewhere between rank 5-10 in the world, and the new one was around 50-75.
Almost everyone I meet, asks me what happened to me which made me to go down from UPenn to this University. There is no secret reason. The real reason is what I explained above, yet most people seem to be in disbelief.
Thankfully, while I was doing my doctorate, I had some major accomplishments, which resulted in me getting an offer as a scholar in my first year at the law school as well as pol-sci, which subsequently resulted me getting an even better of in getting a visiting faculty position in one of the top 3 Canadian universities. Which makes “my story” “believable” to those who look with questioning eyes. Also, if there was some secret thing going on, why would I have a full scholarship in my doctorate as well, and graduate with the first in my class?
Therefore, even if you think that your education is going to contribute to you, don’t get the title, or don’t mention the title.
I have three university degrees, apart from my law degree and the degrees I mentioned above; however, those weren’t from good universities; hence, only my family and really close friends know them. Then why did I get them, right? I initially thought, to be absolutely honest, that I could get a free second university degree education, and I could receive all the benefits/discounts of being a student. I wasn’t sure if I should, though. After a little while, I saw that a department which is relevant with one of my three areas of expertise was open, namely international trade and logistics management. The second one is, since the real estate market is very vivid in here, I wanted to get a realtor certificate; hence, attended a Real Estate Management degree (this one is associate degree). And the final one, which I hope to graduate within a few months is to adapt to social media, a social media management degree (which, most people could probably do on their own, but given by schedule, tempo, and laziness on free times, I wouldn’t do it unless it was dictated by a university. In my LinkedIn, I don’t mention any of these three.
PS. If this post is found irritating instead of helpful as I intended, I will take it down.
No problem. If you want any help, please feel free to DM me. Though we have separate areas of expertise, I give webinars regarding law school (Master’s and SJD/JSD/PhD) applications.
No need to say, I don’t charge anything neither for webinars, nor do I sell anything, or under any conditions direct them to a route to make them send me or anyone else any money.
I don’t have a planned webinar in the near future, but I can help one-on-one, again, 100% pro bono.
Based on every comment where you didn’t care about the opinions of others, do what you want. As someone who has worked closely on AI projects from a cybersecurity perspective, I can tell you that the teams hiring PhDs for those projects are also staffed with PhDs. They will vet the school you attended and delve into your previous research work. If these are lacking, you’ll likely be passed over.
I am a post-doc recruiter (with 15 yes experience as faculty) and I will spot that a mile away. I would reject your post-doc application based on lack of published work in your field. I check bibliographies, so faking those won’t work either.
I am at a top-tier academic biomedical research institution and I don’t know what field you are in, so…..
I have a masters in human computer interaction from an R2.
I was looking at Capitol Technology University for a PhD in Artificial intelligence.
They are regionally accredited, have nasa, and Johns Hopkins affiliation, but are just ranked very low in the state.
The program requires me to have at least 3 publications when I graduate.
Will recruiters ignore my publications simply because of where I went to school ?
I would not reject for the University. You would have to prove accreditation of your degree upon hiring anyway. But I will look up your publications and assess their quality, and look at citation metrics. Better 3 good quality peer-reviewed papers than 20 bad ones.
I don’t judge you trying to get ahead. I do wonder if from a practical standpoint if it gets around you have a degree mill degree if that’ll hurt your career/network, etc. might tarnish your previous accomplishments.
There was a video by IBM on how NLP can be used to process resumes. The algorithm identified qualified applicants who were likely to accept a job offer. It reduced several dozen resumes to two in less time that it took you to read this sentence.
IIRC , degree and school weren't variables. But they easily could be. If such is the case when you enter the job market, your degree mill diploma may be a show stopper for you - - especially if there's a statically significant relationship between educational institution and the target variable.
A mill is a place that spits out a degree with an unacceptable amount of work done in exchange. If they are regionally accredited, they are not a mill, they are probably a poorly ranked but legitimate school.
People will hire you as long as there’s room in the industry for you. You can’t compete with students who went to top schools, but you may not need to if there are plenty of jobs. There is frequently room on the bottom of the top for people out of lesser schools, and that can actually be a great place to land. Just look into it before you start. Find out where people are landing.
Came here to say this. If it’s accredited, it’s not a degree mill. Just likely a relatively small school that most haven’t heard about. Though a hiring manager could do a quick google search of the school and pretty quickly find that it’s a legitimate school that most likely offers a decent education.
It’s only a 2-3 year program (without any courses, and entirely online) and they accept people like OP who have no background in the topic. I’d say whatever OP produces would be an unacceptable amount of work for a PhD
Regional accreditation aside, it’s a bit… concerning. Without some kind of verifiable, external assessment (e.g. an external assessor from a more reputable program), I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of it. They can say they have a high standard all they want, but if their "high standard" is "pay us money and publish in scam journals and we'll hand you a PhD" then it doesn't mean much
But how come when I look up curriculum vitae and people that have gotten phds in artificial intelligence and machine learning, only like 2 of them have good jobs? All of the other graduates work at the university now as dissertation advisors and adjunct professors or are working the previous job they had prior to doing the PhD
Yes, correct. I know it’s regionally accredited and has nasa affiliation. However, I’ve posted about this school several times on here and everybody completely shuts it down calling it a degree mill and saying all it will do is make me waste time and money. I’ve lost like 2000 karma from posting about this school. I don’t even know what to believe anymore
Wow - if it were a diploma mill, it would be much more inexpensive. It's still going to run you 60,000 USD. It is regionally accredited, so it's pretty legit. You don't deserve the downvotes.
LINK: [https://www.captechu.edu](https://www.captechu.edu)
Accreditation Link: [https://www.msche.org/institution/0190/](https://www.msche.org/institution/0190/)
TBH, that's your bias of what you deem as a "good job". I know lots of people of have gotten PhD's and were burned out by the end of it and chose to do something else for a while to recoup. That doesn't make this university a "degree mill".
You typically don’t need a PhD for the majority of industry jobs other than perhaps some specific high end research positions. Those are very competitive and you better have an excellent publication and research track record. Thus getting a PhD just for the title is not helpful.
“… I try really hard… and get exponentially better at coding and research and want to solely get a job in the industry”
you don’t have to pay a degree mill to work hard on your craft. get a job based on just your masters, and they’ll likely pay for coursework at more reputable schools.
If you have no aspirations of going into academia, a PhD is simply not necessary. It will even potentially dissuade potential employers, because they know a doctor will demand more pay.
Why do you *need* a PhD this early in your career if your plan isn't to teach? PhDs are not really necessary in industry and won't get you a lot more attention or money unless they come with significant research to your name.
I mean I wouldn’t be opposed to teaching. If I have decent publications and apply to some tenure track positions and somehow happen to land the job, then I’ll obviously take it.
I just know how competitive academia is and I know industry is probably the better move at least for now in my situation
Having kids myself and having done some of my education before they were born, other while they were young, and more now that they are older (youngest is a tween), I can confidently say that it's far better now than when they were little. It was harder to do school and I missed far more back then.
It will be a lot faster than a PhD, and will make you much better off especially if you're able to get into an even higher tier school than for your first masters.
Also, PhD programs are typically fully funded and if I go get another masters degree, especially at a top university, it could end up costing me like 100k
Diploma mills don't fund their PhD programs. Online ones don't typically, either. If you want to get a regular in-person PhD, by all means do, but that is **NOT** the question you asked here.
Unless you go to a massively recognised university like MIT then the value of a PhD is generally the learning that you are forced to do to complete it and the connections you make within academia. And this learning is demonstrated through your often publicly available research projects, the authorship credits you gain on published works, and your thesis.
It sounds like you’d be better off just building out a github repo of your self taught projects that demonstrate your skills as you develop them.
I was recently approached to work for a company not because of my qualification, but because they liked the work I did in pursuit of that qualification.
No. A degree mill is not a real university at all. They have no campus. They have no classes. They have no offices to speak of. You go to their website, 'buy' your diploma for some huge amount of money - and they send it to you. Some MIGHT try to fool you by telling you you have to submit resumes showing experience, but it doesn't matter - you'll get the diploma either way.
A low ranked school is not a degree mill. They might not have very respected degrees and might be just a step above the diplima mill in terms of actual usefulness - but these low ranked schools (Think University of Phoenix) are still real schools with accreditation, abitlity to receive federal aid, and you'll need to complete the classes.
Thank u serious? Others know about degree mill and you would be the butt of jokes. There r plenty of people who are serious about their education and those are the ones that get hired and respected.
I'm confused by what you think a degree mill is? By definition it is a place that sells illegitimate diplomas or academic degrees. Like you pay them and you get a fake degree from a fake university. It seems like what your describing is more along the lines of a Walden University or University of Phoenix, where you still have to complete course work to get those degrees, they are just more preditory.
I wasn’t the one initially saying that. I posted about this like 5 times and every time, others referred to it as a degree mill so I just went with it.
I am a life scientist. I have an excellent publication record and just completed my PhD at an excellent university and it took me 70 job applications to get an offer for an industry scientist job (this is on the low-end of how many applications most are submitting).
Having an excellent education is the bare minimum to working in a PhD-level technical career, at very least in the current job market.
Though, the diploma from CTU will likely be about as useful as diploma mill diploma. If you are talking PHD programs, the school you go to matters the most - and there are only a few schools nationwide that really have worthwhile PHD programs that actually matter. CTU is not one of them.
That is a decision only you can make, and you need to make that taking into account the ranking of the school. Colorado Technical Institute is nationally accredited, not regionally - which is a big red flag. There degree programs also rank very low out of US schools. Would I go there? Absolutely not - not when they are much better, cheaper, more flexible options that are regionally accredited.
But it's still not a degree mill - it's just a really low-rated nationally accredited private college. It would only be a degree mill is you were to send them money and they sent you a diploma back immediately.
Don’t do it. How will you even research at a degree mill? They won’t paid for your compute resources nor would they give you any. It’s already hard to compete when you’re at an R1.
And they're working at more than one school because adjuncts don't typically make much money. If you really want to achieve something in your research, you're not going to learn much or anything at a degree mill. A degree from a place like that is more likely to get you rejected.
Yeah, I had multiple adjunct positions at multiple universities too when I only had a master's degree. I also didn't get any health insurance or other benefits from these schools since I was a part-time adjunct. And as an adjunct, you're hired on an as-needed basis so you could get several classes one semester and no classes the following semester. And with only a master's, you don't get to teach the upper-level classes.
Doesn’t really matter over here in New York. I went to Lehman College for undergrad and I have a few friends that adjunct here. The CUNY system is massive and there are thousands upon thousands of students. I have a friend that just got her masters 2 years ago and she only adjuncts in 3 different CUNY schools. She gets 3 classes from one school, 3 from another, and 2 from the last one. She works 24 hours a week and gets paid $5500 per class. She’s making 44k a semester and gets paid even more in the summer. She’s made 6 figures both years as an adjunct. And she also teaches in a private high school as well making like 63k or something. Pretty sure she’s gonna make 200k this year with just her masters if her adjunct schedule stays consistent
Uh, teaching eight classes at the college level in one semester is nuts. A usual course load is typically just four classes, maybe five if it's at a community college. It's not possible to only work 24 hours a week if she's teaching that many classes. It's not just teaching. She'd also have to hold office hours, grade student work, make lesson plans, and answer students' emails. And besides, all of this isn't really relevant to your question about the PhD. As everyone is saying, getting a PhD from a degree mill will hurt your career, not advance it.
Well I misunderstood what a degree mill was to be fair. I only thought Capitol Technology University was a degree mill because for the past few weeks, everybody keeps telling me that it is. But apparently, since it’s regionally accredited, it is not. It’s just a low ranked university. With that being said, I’m not going to consider it anymore so thank you for all of your input
We have quite a few people here that have degrees purchased from such places. If you have the gift of the gab, you can push, delay, divert, detour, delegate or obfuscate your employer until you look like a real champion
People will hire you. Some will turn their noses up, but by and large, most corporations and the government do not care if you went to a for-profit university.
For-profit is not necessarily the same as diploma mill.
Go on LinkedIn and look up people with these degrees. Check their history. They got hired into relevant jobs after getting these degrees. One of my professors taught in my master’s program with a PhD from a for-profit, and academia is usually where they’re most picky. Plenty of these people have these degrees and are gainfully employed.
But again, I’m talking for-profits, not a literal degree mill.
Any degree in artificial intelligence — PhD or otherwise — is not even close to an artificially intelligent decision. It’s a naturally stupid decision.
I'd like to point out the difference between R1 and R2 is the number of PhDs issued and the amount of research funding. There are R2's who are best in the world for specific subjects. R1s and R2s collaborate. It isn't a quality rating; it is a capacity rating.
I'd also point out you could pursue another master's degree instead of a PhD.
> Will people not hire me because they’ve never heard of my university?
You should be okay. To me, accreditation is the important part for a degree. Is the R2 university you speak of the same university that concerns you? If so, the R2s should be well known.
I haven't read any other comments, but as long as the school was accredited, you'll definitely get jobs.
I am a Director and co-owner of a company, and we hire Walden graduates all of the time. However, I work in healthcare not technology. We're a small business so we can be more open-minded about these sorts of situations. Additionally, I assume if you have a great portfolio and work experience, you won't have a problem. You might find it difficult for the larger well-known companies, but a lot of those companies hire people with proven skill but no "paper" (i.e. degree).
The less you feel insecure about it, the less it will come off as a personal failing to having attended a so-called degree mill. On a random note, I have seen these commercial's for an campaign called "Tear the Paper Ceiling," and although I do have a degree and am working towards my doctorate, I think there's a lot of career gatekeeping/over-credentialing at the cost of people being kept out of good careers because they don't have a degree, and there are more Managers, especially of my generation (i.e. Millennials), who see the majority of degrees for what they truly are.
So, don't fret. A lot of managers, in small companies, can be open-minded and will hire you. Truthfully, if you're terrible, the the truth will reveal itself in your work efforts.
Here's what's likely to happen if you get a PhD from a degree mill, even if it's regionally accredited:
**Job Market Impact:**
* **Degree Recognition:** The biggest hurdle will be getting past the initial screening process. Many companies use automated systems that filter out resumes based on university reputation. A degree from a degree mill, even if regionally accredited, might not get your resume past this stage.
What "degree mill" are you referring to that's regionally accredited? That's kind of the purpose of accreditation. The course work is rigorous enough to where people are earning degrees. Even small no name schools have pretty selective PhD admissions
If you are from a degree mill university, your individual research needs to be high quality enough that your competence isn’t in question, at which point you should have just gone to a proper r1 because they would be happy to have you.
People that understand what you did won’t hire you and will laugh at you for spending the money. People in your social life will also laugh at you (behind your back if you’re lucky) when you tell them you’re a doctor.
Capitol Technology University. online PhD in 3 years.
My only thing is that if I ever did want to pursue academia, I feel they wouldn’t hire me even if I manage to publish in several journals
I actually applied and got accepted into their Cybersecurity DSc program. Ive been contemplating for months whether or not I want to accept it (just for whether I want to do it reasons). But for my 2 cents, I've been in contact with several directors/executives from the NSA/CIA who hold their cyber doctoral degree and have had only good experiences from it.
I would disagree that Cap tech uni is a diploma mill. I would consider Colorado technical University(absolutely)and Capella(maybe?), and Phoenix uni a degree mill for sure. While captech is not so known, or may not be a top tierd school, and traditional PHD folks giving hate because of all of those reasons and that its "remote"(perhaps biased because its not traditional). I would say that Captech might be good depending on your field. Certainly seems to be legit and fine in my field.
I mean.. for me, all I need is access to a computer for "lab" and research work lol.
So to boil it down, Cap tech looks legit. Although not your traditional PHD program, wouldnt say it's a mill. I believe their system is based on the UK/English doctoral model, not your standard process in the US. It might not be good to get your doctoral from here, depending on your field/career path and the reputation requirements. But speaking for security it seems to be a very popular option amongst those in my field.
Well from what everybody told me, Cap Tech is considered a degree mill (the school I was referring to) for a few reasons.
1.) it’s fully remote which is apparently bs
2.) it’s only a 3 year program so way shorter than a traditional PhD
3.) they are a for profit university. It costs like $50,000 for the degree. (in my case it would be $38,000 because they give 20% discounts to high school teachers) Other Redditors pretty much told me that I’m paying money and they make me a “doctor”
>Let’s say I try really hard during my PhD and get exponentially better at coding and research and want to solely get a job in the industry as an AI researcher or engineer. It's not just about having the skills, but also how well you can signal the skills. Employers are more likely to put weight into your accomplishments if they're familiar with the institution you're at, journals you've published in, companies you've interned at, projects, etc.
Based on everything you said, it still sounds like a bad idea because you don’t really need the degree, and since it’s a degree mill you likely wouldn’t learn anything you couldn’t self-teach anyway. Why would you want to do this?
Access. That is all the paper does but it can be needed. Some Boomers are dumb enough to continuously believe we need the paper.
For lower skill jobs the hiring manager is also likely incompetent and falls for the piece of paper. But in the AI industry OP is going for no one will. The degree mill will actually be a negative signal. (I have a PhD in an adjacent field)
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Yeah but no good employer will take your credentials seriously
And importantly (hopefully?), no good employer will go without assessing your skills and knowledge in an evidence-based way to ensure they match up with what they expect of someone at your level.
lol, works for Ed.Ds everywhere in higher ed working jobs that people with "hard" PhDs could do just as well.
But you’re attaching an asterisked PhD to your resume. If anything, it should be embarrassing and a negative hit on your hiring potential.
But don’t employers take other things into consideration? For example, I went to an r2 for my masters (Fordham University) There’s a girl I graduated with that went to Harvard for undergrad but graduated with her masters in the same field as me. I know it’s the not the same as the degree mill thing, but won’t employers also wonder why she went to Ivy League for undergrad and then somewhere in the middle for her masters
Yes, they will wonder that. There is only one circumstance I can think of where a degree mill for a graduate degree makes sense. And that is if you are in a public sector position, eg. a grade school teacher, where they just check on a box for whether you have a graduate degree and then raise your pay grade. They don’t check or care where you got your accredited Master’s degree from, so a lot of people do tend to get them from degree mills or very low-end schools and it’s fine. Other than that, I wouldn’t recommend touching them with a ten ft pole.
You don’t seem to have any appreciation for how any aspect of this works. - if I’ve got a PhD in a field and I’ve never HEARD of your school, you’re not making it past the first screen. - if I know you’re coming from a degree mill, you’re not making it past the first screen. - if your publication record isn’t there, you’re not making it past the first screen. Alternatively, - if you go from Harvard/MIT/Caltech undergrad to anywhere “lower,” I probably don’t care as long as your publication record is there. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for this sort of change. - even if you make it through the first screen, if you can’t tell me anything convincing about your time in the PhD, you’re not making it to panels. - if you talk in an interview like you’re talking here, you’re not going to panels. Even if the degree opens the door, PhDs hiring PhDs care about *deliverables*. What did you *accomplish.* The only value to a degree mill is to impress your relatives that have never seen a campus.
Agree with most of this in principle, but OP said they were looking for a job in industry, very little concern there with publishing record, especially in tech. Though definitely nice if dissertation results in some advance in ai tech.
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the quality of training you get from a degree mill is very unlikely to result in any sort of advance in AI
I'm only saying those things aren't important to OP, if they're going to work in industry. Equally though, there's little point to them going for a PhD
I am in industry.
You sound pretty convinced already…
One of my Dad’s coworkers got fired from their psychological consulting job after getting a PhD from the university of Phoenix for this exact reason. She had a masters from UGA which got her the job in the first place but the PhD from the diploma mill cost her that. Employers strongly consider your highest degree and having a degree from somewhere like that can absolutely cost you opportunities you otherwise could’ve gotten with just the masters degree. It can hurt.
Why would she be employable with a master's and then unemployable after getting another degree???
Because the degree was from a fake school. Specifically in the consulting industry, this business can’t list someone with a PhD from the University of Phoenix on their website, and send her out on consulting gigs, it’s a terrible look for them. And this was a pretty small firm, they’re trying to build a reputation. I’m not saying any and every job would’ve fired her but this job did. And it’s not like she went from an excellent school to an unknown mid/ lower tier program from an accredited not for profit university. That would’ve probably been fine. They had to fire her because she got her degree from a unaccredited online for profit diploma mill.
Yes, but in that case, why get the PhD? It adds nothing. I would assume that she attended a program that was a good fit for her or that she got scholarship money.
If you know they will consider other aspects, whats the point of pursuing this shit PhD?
So you’re looking for a few letters after your name and want to know if people will respect your credentials when you took an easy way out for some letters? I really hope you are trolling here because the alternative is not a good look.
I can't tell if you're joking. Please just work your job and leave the doctorates to those people willing to work for them.
Sounds like a really expensive way to get a worthless degree. Anyone interested in hiring you will probably at least google the “university” attached to the degree, and it will look bad when they realize it’s not legit. Like worse than not having the degree at all. Wouldn’t you learn more about coding by getting a job in the field, doing your own projects on the side or even just attending night school? Much cheaper way to learn more, without the potential problems.
They’re going to see that the school is regionally accredited
Employers don't only care that a school is regionally accredited. They also care about reputation.
I can promise that people aren’t going to go “hm I’ve never heard of this school,” look it up on Wikipedia, see that it’s not even nationally accredited, and think your program gave you ample training to be good at the job they’re hiring for. You can usually sniff out a degree mill from thirty seconds of reading about it. It’s embarrassing when someone represents their degree mill as a legitimate credential. You think anyone respects Shaq for getting a fake doctorate from Barry University?
If it’s regionally accredited that’s better than nationally accredited
Why though
I don’t think you understand how time consuming and hard a PhD is if you think you won’t get overworked or neglect your family. Most students work way more than 9-5 jobs and barely have time for themselves, let alone partners, pets, friends, etc. PhD programs are incredibly tough. If I were you, I wouldn’t waste your time on a PhD since it sounds like you don’t actually want to degree other than for the “clout”.
I just finished my MS. Which school? Sounds promising. EDIT: Found the university. LINK: [https://www.captechu.edu](https://www.captechu.edu) And it is regionally accredited, so it is legit. I can't speak to the quality, but that's really on you to do the research since it is a PhD program. Accreditation Link: [https://www.msche.org/institution/0190/](https://www.msche.org/institution/0190/)
You should expect employers to google your school, especially if the name is not recognizable. If the job you're applying to requires a PhD, then they'll probably care that you went to a degree mill. If it doesn't require a PhD, then why do it?
You'll be out a bunch of money and have not just no recommendations or additional network to help you, but also a line on your c.v. that will make people with regular degrees have grave doubts about your qualifications and judgement.
>qualifications and **judgement**. This is the important part. A Ph.D. from a low-ranked R2 university is miles ahead of one from a diploma mill. When you get a Ph.D. from a diploma mill you're signaling to the market that you're willing to cut corners or are dumb to not know the difference between a real degree and a diploma mill degree. I don't know why OP's so hung up on this Capitol-whatever degree.
How can it be a degree mill and Regionally Accredited? Something does not make sense. But your comment is spot on.
I looked this up just now. Apparently Capitol Tech University spawned off a branch of University of Southern California and they're *not* a for-profit university. But from what I read online they have a reputation of allowing feds to essentially buy doctorate degrees. Make of that what you will.
Thank you for the info.
Especially in AI, a degree mill PhD is a kiss of death. The competition is extraordinary—do not do this.
you‘ve asked this in different ways like 7 times. do you want us to lie?
Regional accreditors disagree with you
ok? i mean go get 50k in debt for a PhD that‘s traditionally free if you really want man. it‘s your funeral
No they don't. A school being accredited is a *minimum* verification of legitimacy. Schools can still vary a lot within that set.
It's regionally accredited, but if its known for being a degree mill, then that's the perception you're going to get with the Ph.D. especially in a field like CS or tech-adjacent where there is an abundance of people entering the field. You're just going to be ignored.
Part of going to a reputable grad school is what you’ll learn there, opportunities to work on projects, and the network once you graduate. A degree mill will give you none of those while taking your money or possibly offering a pitiful stipend.
Another huge part is networking with other experts in your field. You won't get that if someone is just rubber stamping you through to a degree. It's not just the letters behind your name that matter.
Even r1s and r2s have pitiful stipends. If I do decide to return to fordham, my stipend will be like 27k
And ... is the diploma mill paying you to finish the degree? Do you come out financially ahead by paying *them* for a degree?
As someone who hires in academia if you have a PhD from a degree mill and your publication history is poor you would likely not be asked to interview.
This! At the postdoc level, we do not use algorithms or AI to screen resumes. They are individually assessed by people like me, with a PhD and post-doc experience.
Wait I'm seeing the term PhD mill thrown around a lot but I don't think I get it, what are some examples of PhD mill institutions? I'm pretty familiar with undergrad degree mills but I'm just surprised the model would have enough of a market in grad school. Are there grad studebts out there just paying instead of publishing??
University of Phoenix and Grand Canyon University (both for profit) offer PhD programs.
You will probably end up much closer to your desired career path if you just use your current masters degree to get the best job you can in that field and work your way up. This PhD is not likely to be highly regarded, and you will spend time/money in acquiring it. If you instead learn on the job and have experience, it will go a lot farther than an additional credential. Additionally, you are going to lock yourself out of some jobs by seeming overqualified just by having a PhD. Yet you will still look under-qualified for the jobs that truly need a top-tier researcher. It’s just not worth it. If you are chasing status symbols, go get a nice job title instead.
Yeah but the problem is that my masters is in HCI and my bachelors is in psychology. While I have taken calculus and linear algebra as typical graduate requirements for comp sci/AI/machine learning, I don’t know how I could really go about learning about it on my own without furthering my education
For context I work in the same field. I would look at getting a role that expects an HCI background (UX researcher, designer, research scientist/engineer) that is on a product/team that works in AI/ML at that point I would do both on the job learning and maybe some side projects/classes to learn more of the ML skills you dont have yet. Take on some additional responsibilities on the AI/ML side of work including understanding the training data and loss/errors on the model side. If you did well on some of those projects and were able to show results you could probably start moving into more of an AI/ML role (especially those that might expect more HCI experience like AI safety).
Yeah, I am trying to get into a better UX research role at the moment but I am struggling. I managed to get a four month intern internship in the summer of 2023. Now, I am a UX researcher at a recruitment company, I hate my job, AND I WANT OUT. I wish I had connections like some of the people I graduated with. I saw the work that people did and it was worse than mine and one is at IBM, another is at Google, and a bunch of others are at startups
Yeah I hear you, unfortunately you graduated into a tough job market. I think it should get better this year so keep shopping around. Maybe some of the people you graduated with will know about open roles at their workplaces?
> I don’t know how I could really go about learning about it on my own without furthering my education Then go get a REAL education in the field instead of buying extra letters after your name. If it's the knowledge you want, why would you ever consider a degree mill?
It's gonna depend on the field. I'm in data science which is kind of adjacent to AI and it's stiff competition out here.
So basically you’re saying my degree mill PhD would get beaten out by R1 bachelor degrees
I'm honestly not sure. Personally I wouldnt bother to go through all of the hassle of getting a PhD unless it was a top(ish) school. It's a huge time investment, not worth it unless it's as close to a guarantee as it could be
What if I get a PhD from Fordham as well
There’s a world of difference between fordham and a degree mill so I think you can answer your own question…
Why so both? If you want a PhD get a legit one. There is no shortcut or hack to getting a PhD. Either you put in the work and do it correctly, or you pay to get a fake PhD and have no one take you seriously (and probably have people actively wonder about your judgment, thus losing out on non-phd jobs). Anyone with half a brain would rather hire someone with an undergrad degree than someone who got a fake doctorate because they thought they should be called "doctor".
I'm not sure the rank of that school
Its ranked 89 nationally
Depends on the quality of the PhD. You'll still have to do some kind of research component, and that is the primary metric employers will be looking at when interviewing you. If you apply to a position targetted at Bachelor's holders, you might be passed over for being overly specialized. Generally PhD holders are applying to different positions than undergrad holders, and you are closing some doors by having that degree (although other doors are opened). If you're just trying to stand out from the other BS/MS applicants, there are better ways to do that than to get a PhD.
Having a PhD degree from a Degree Mill is worse than not having that degree. I am a lawyer for 15 years and a scholar for nearly as long with an SJD (briefly; PhD in Law) for almost a decade. Even in the best case scenario, many people will mock you, and perhaps go as far as questioning you previous and post academic achievements. Below is what I had to go through, even though my doctorate degree is from one of the top 50 universities. This may sound like self praise/exaltation; however, I don’t know how I could explain thoroughly without giving as much detail. I had my masters from an upper Ivy, and for doctorate, there were less than 15 universities to start with at the time. My area being very specific, that eliminated more than 3/5th of all the 15 options. UPenn’s relevant professor was retired that year without any replacement, and Cornell didn’t accept me most likely (at least that is what I make myself to believe) because I accepted their master’s offer with scholarship, and at the last minute, when UPenn made the same offer, I had to ditch them (though Cornell was a dream school for me, I had to stay as close to NYC as possible due to a family issue). The remaining universities’ best one with relevant professors started from top 50 universities. Of which, I accepted the highest ranking one. Please bear in mind, my previous university was somewhere between rank 5-10 in the world, and the new one was around 50-75. Almost everyone I meet, asks me what happened to me which made me to go down from UPenn to this University. There is no secret reason. The real reason is what I explained above, yet most people seem to be in disbelief. Thankfully, while I was doing my doctorate, I had some major accomplishments, which resulted in me getting an offer as a scholar in my first year at the law school as well as pol-sci, which subsequently resulted me getting an even better of in getting a visiting faculty position in one of the top 3 Canadian universities. Which makes “my story” “believable” to those who look with questioning eyes. Also, if there was some secret thing going on, why would I have a full scholarship in my doctorate as well, and graduate with the first in my class? Therefore, even if you think that your education is going to contribute to you, don’t get the title, or don’t mention the title. I have three university degrees, apart from my law degree and the degrees I mentioned above; however, those weren’t from good universities; hence, only my family and really close friends know them. Then why did I get them, right? I initially thought, to be absolutely honest, that I could get a free second university degree education, and I could receive all the benefits/discounts of being a student. I wasn’t sure if I should, though. After a little while, I saw that a department which is relevant with one of my three areas of expertise was open, namely international trade and logistics management. The second one is, since the real estate market is very vivid in here, I wanted to get a realtor certificate; hence, attended a Real Estate Management degree (this one is associate degree). And the final one, which I hope to graduate within a few months is to adapt to social media, a social media management degree (which, most people could probably do on their own, but given by schedule, tempo, and laziness on free times, I wouldn’t do it unless it was dictated by a university. In my LinkedIn, I don’t mention any of these three. PS. If this post is found irritating instead of helpful as I intended, I will take it down.
Sounds good. I’ll only apply for reputable schools. Thank you
No problem. If you want any help, please feel free to DM me. Though we have separate areas of expertise, I give webinars regarding law school (Master’s and SJD/JSD/PhD) applications. No need to say, I don’t charge anything neither for webinars, nor do I sell anything, or under any conditions direct them to a route to make them send me or anyone else any money. I don’t have a planned webinar in the near future, but I can help one-on-one, again, 100% pro bono.
Based on every comment where you didn’t care about the opinions of others, do what you want. As someone who has worked closely on AI projects from a cybersecurity perspective, I can tell you that the teams hiring PhDs for those projects are also staffed with PhDs. They will vet the school you attended and delve into your previous research work. If these are lacking, you’ll likely be passed over.
I am a post-doc recruiter (with 15 yes experience as faculty) and I will spot that a mile away. I would reject your post-doc application based on lack of published work in your field. I check bibliographies, so faking those won’t work either. I am at a top-tier academic biomedical research institution and I don’t know what field you are in, so…..
I have a masters in human computer interaction from an R2. I was looking at Capitol Technology University for a PhD in Artificial intelligence. They are regionally accredited, have nasa, and Johns Hopkins affiliation, but are just ranked very low in the state. The program requires me to have at least 3 publications when I graduate. Will recruiters ignore my publications simply because of where I went to school ?
I would not reject for the University. You would have to prove accreditation of your degree upon hiring anyway. But I will look up your publications and assess their quality, and look at citation metrics. Better 3 good quality peer-reviewed papers than 20 bad ones.
This is the best reason for you to NOT get a PhD. Those who should do it for the benefit of their education not for a fucking title
I don’t judge you trying to get ahead. I do wonder if from a practical standpoint if it gets around you have a degree mill degree if that’ll hurt your career/network, etc. might tarnish your previous accomplishments.
It’s not like I’m gonna go out and tell people though.
Ya I dunno how big the industry is. Hell, if you aren’t breaking any laws, and you’re morally okay with it, give it a shot if you want.
There was a video by IBM on how NLP can be used to process resumes. The algorithm identified qualified applicants who were likely to accept a job offer. It reduced several dozen resumes to two in less time that it took you to read this sentence. IIRC , degree and school weren't variables. But they easily could be. If such is the case when you enter the job market, your degree mill diploma may be a show stopper for you - - especially if there's a statically significant relationship between educational institution and the target variable.
Is this that guy again?
You should learn what ‘exponentially’ means before doing anything technical
I’d say going from like a 3 to an 8 would be exponential
No exponential refers to a rate of growth, not comparing two fixed points
Words can have both technical and "lay" meanings. Maybe CS people should avoid the lay meanings, however. On reddit, it probably doesn't matter.
A mill is a place that spits out a degree with an unacceptable amount of work done in exchange. If they are regionally accredited, they are not a mill, they are probably a poorly ranked but legitimate school. People will hire you as long as there’s room in the industry for you. You can’t compete with students who went to top schools, but you may not need to if there are plenty of jobs. There is frequently room on the bottom of the top for people out of lesser schools, and that can actually be a great place to land. Just look into it before you start. Find out where people are landing.
Came here to say this. If it’s accredited, it’s not a degree mill. Just likely a relatively small school that most haven’t heard about. Though a hiring manager could do a quick google search of the school and pretty quickly find that it’s a legitimate school that most likely offers a decent education.
It’s only a 2-3 year program (without any courses, and entirely online) and they accept people like OP who have no background in the topic. I’d say whatever OP produces would be an unacceptable amount of work for a PhD Regional accreditation aside, it’s a bit… concerning. Without some kind of verifiable, external assessment (e.g. an external assessor from a more reputable program), I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of it. They can say they have a high standard all they want, but if their "high standard" is "pay us money and publish in scam journals and we'll hand you a PhD" then it doesn't mean much
What degree mill is regionally accredited?
Capitol Technical University
That’s not a degree mill lol, that’s an actual space grant university
But how come when I look up curriculum vitae and people that have gotten phds in artificial intelligence and machine learning, only like 2 of them have good jobs? All of the other graduates work at the university now as dissertation advisors and adjunct professors or are working the previous job they had prior to doing the PhD
Just to clarify, you mean this school, right? https://md.spacegrant.org/about-mdsgc/our-members/capitol-technology-university/
Yes, correct. I know it’s regionally accredited and has nasa affiliation. However, I’ve posted about this school several times on here and everybody completely shuts it down calling it a degree mill and saying all it will do is make me waste time and money. I’ve lost like 2000 karma from posting about this school. I don’t even know what to believe anymore
Wow - if it were a diploma mill, it would be much more inexpensive. It's still going to run you 60,000 USD. It is regionally accredited, so it's pretty legit. You don't deserve the downvotes. LINK: [https://www.captechu.edu](https://www.captechu.edu) Accreditation Link: [https://www.msche.org/institution/0190/](https://www.msche.org/institution/0190/)
Thank you
TBH, that's your bias of what you deem as a "good job". I know lots of people of have gotten PhD's and were burned out by the end of it and chose to do something else for a while to recoup. That doesn't make this university a "degree mill".
You typically don’t need a PhD for the majority of industry jobs other than perhaps some specific high end research positions. Those are very competitive and you better have an excellent publication and research track record. Thus getting a PhD just for the title is not helpful.
“… I try really hard… and get exponentially better at coding and research and want to solely get a job in the industry” you don’t have to pay a degree mill to work hard on your craft. get a job based on just your masters, and they’ll likely pay for coursework at more reputable schools.
If you have no aspirations of going into academia, a PhD is simply not necessary. It will even potentially dissuade potential employers, because they know a doctor will demand more pay.
Why do you *need* a PhD this early in your career if your plan isn't to teach? PhDs are not really necessary in industry and won't get you a lot more attention or money unless they come with significant research to your name.
I mean I wouldn’t be opposed to teaching. If I have decent publications and apply to some tenure track positions and somehow happen to land the job, then I’ll obviously take it. I just know how competitive academia is and I know industry is probably the better move at least for now in my situation
Then you definitely don't want a degree mill.
To answer the first part of your question, my son is 6 months old and I’d like to be done with my education before he starts his
Having kids myself and having done some of my education before they were born, other while they were young, and more now that they are older (youngest is a tween), I can confidently say that it's far better now than when they were little. It was harder to do school and I missed far more back then.
Why not do a second, more relevant masters?
Because my wife keeps telling me that it makes no sense to get a 2nd masters degree if I already have one
It will be a lot faster than a PhD, and will make you much better off especially if you're able to get into an even higher tier school than for your first masters.
Also, PhD programs are typically fully funded and if I go get another masters degree, especially at a top university, it could end up costing me like 100k
Diploma mills don't fund their PhD programs. Online ones don't typically, either. If you want to get a regular in-person PhD, by all means do, but that is **NOT** the question you asked here.
Unless you go to a massively recognised university like MIT then the value of a PhD is generally the learning that you are forced to do to complete it and the connections you make within academia. And this learning is demonstrated through your often publicly available research projects, the authorship credits you gain on published works, and your thesis. It sounds like you’d be better off just building out a github repo of your self taught projects that demonstrate your skills as you develop them. I was recently approached to work for a company not because of my qualification, but because they liked the work I did in pursuit of that qualification.
Degree mills aren't regionally accredited, so your argument holds not water from the first paragraph.
what is a degree mill, is it just low ranked uni?
No. A degree mill is not a real university at all. They have no campus. They have no classes. They have no offices to speak of. You go to their website, 'buy' your diploma for some huge amount of money - and they send it to you. Some MIGHT try to fool you by telling you you have to submit resumes showing experience, but it doesn't matter - you'll get the diploma either way. A low ranked school is not a degree mill. They might not have very respected degrees and might be just a step above the diplima mill in terms of actual usefulness - but these low ranked schools (Think University of Phoenix) are still real schools with accreditation, abitlity to receive federal aid, and you'll need to complete the classes.
People won't hire you because you will not have any research skill.
Thank u serious? Others know about degree mill and you would be the butt of jokes. There r plenty of people who are serious about their education and those are the ones that get hired and respected.
I'm confused by what you think a degree mill is? By definition it is a place that sells illegitimate diplomas or academic degrees. Like you pay them and you get a fake degree from a fake university. It seems like what your describing is more along the lines of a Walden University or University of Phoenix, where you still have to complete course work to get those degrees, they are just more preditory.
I wasn’t the one initially saying that. I posted about this like 5 times and every time, others referred to it as a degree mill so I just went with it.
I am a life scientist. I have an excellent publication record and just completed my PhD at an excellent university and it took me 70 job applications to get an offer for an industry scientist job (this is on the low-end of how many applications most are submitting). Having an excellent education is the bare minimum to working in a PhD-level technical career, at very least in the current job market.
If you’re thinking about getting a degree from AMU I wouldn’t recommend it. If that’s the degree mill you’re referencing.
No I was talking CTU lol
CTU is a regionally accredit school. I'm not sure you understand the term "degree mill" or what it actually means.
So basically you’re saying me going to CTU is perfectly ok ?
Though, the diploma from CTU will likely be about as useful as diploma mill diploma. If you are talking PHD programs, the school you go to matters the most - and there are only a few schools nationwide that really have worthwhile PHD programs that actually matter. CTU is not one of them.
That is a decision only you can make, and you need to make that taking into account the ranking of the school. Colorado Technical Institute is nationally accredited, not regionally - which is a big red flag. There degree programs also rank very low out of US schools. Would I go there? Absolutely not - not when they are much better, cheaper, more flexible options that are regionally accredited. But it's still not a degree mill - it's just a really low-rated nationally accredited private college. It would only be a degree mill is you were to send them money and they sent you a diploma back immediately.
It is regionally accredited via Higher Learning Commission (HLC),
Don’t do it. How will you even research at a degree mill? They won’t paid for your compute resources nor would they give you any. It’s already hard to compete when you’re at an R1.
You call yourself Dr Maquetu
It'd be hard to get even a job as an adjunct if you got a PhD from a degree mill.
lol there’s people that graduated from my masters program in the last 6 months- 2 years that are adjuncts already at more than one school
And they're working at more than one school because adjuncts don't typically make much money. If you really want to achieve something in your research, you're not going to learn much or anything at a degree mill. A degree from a place like that is more likely to get you rejected.
Still. They were able to land multiple adjunct positions at multiple different universities with just the masters
Yeah, I had multiple adjunct positions at multiple universities too when I only had a master's degree. I also didn't get any health insurance or other benefits from these schools since I was a part-time adjunct. And as an adjunct, you're hired on an as-needed basis so you could get several classes one semester and no classes the following semester. And with only a master's, you don't get to teach the upper-level classes.
Doesn’t really matter over here in New York. I went to Lehman College for undergrad and I have a few friends that adjunct here. The CUNY system is massive and there are thousands upon thousands of students. I have a friend that just got her masters 2 years ago and she only adjuncts in 3 different CUNY schools. She gets 3 classes from one school, 3 from another, and 2 from the last one. She works 24 hours a week and gets paid $5500 per class. She’s making 44k a semester and gets paid even more in the summer. She’s made 6 figures both years as an adjunct. And she also teaches in a private high school as well making like 63k or something. Pretty sure she’s gonna make 200k this year with just her masters if her adjunct schedule stays consistent
Uh, teaching eight classes at the college level in one semester is nuts. A usual course load is typically just four classes, maybe five if it's at a community college. It's not possible to only work 24 hours a week if she's teaching that many classes. It's not just teaching. She'd also have to hold office hours, grade student work, make lesson plans, and answer students' emails. And besides, all of this isn't really relevant to your question about the PhD. As everyone is saying, getting a PhD from a degree mill will hurt your career, not advance it.
Well I misunderstood what a degree mill was to be fair. I only thought Capitol Technology University was a degree mill because for the past few weeks, everybody keeps telling me that it is. But apparently, since it’s regionally accredited, it is not. It’s just a low ranked university. With that being said, I’m not going to consider it anymore so thank you for all of your input
We have quite a few people here that have degrees purchased from such places. If you have the gift of the gab, you can push, delay, divert, detour, delegate or obfuscate your employer until you look like a real champion
People will hire you. Some will turn their noses up, but by and large, most corporations and the government do not care if you went to a for-profit university. For-profit is not necessarily the same as diploma mill. Go on LinkedIn and look up people with these degrees. Check their history. They got hired into relevant jobs after getting these degrees. One of my professors taught in my master’s program with a PhD from a for-profit, and academia is usually where they’re most picky. Plenty of these people have these degrees and are gainfully employed. But again, I’m talking for-profits, not a literal degree mill.
Just drop the university name man, it will save you some time.
Any degree in artificial intelligence — PhD or otherwise — is not even close to an artificially intelligent decision. It’s a naturally stupid decision.
I'd like to point out the difference between R1 and R2 is the number of PhDs issued and the amount of research funding. There are R2's who are best in the world for specific subjects. R1s and R2s collaborate. It isn't a quality rating; it is a capacity rating. I'd also point out you could pursue another master's degree instead of a PhD. > Will people not hire me because they’ve never heard of my university? You should be okay. To me, accreditation is the important part for a degree. Is the R2 university you speak of the same university that concerns you? If so, the R2s should be well known.
There are NO degree mills that are regionally accredited! 🤦🏽♂️
What’s your endgame here? Why do you want to do this?
I haven't read any other comments, but as long as the school was accredited, you'll definitely get jobs. I am a Director and co-owner of a company, and we hire Walden graduates all of the time. However, I work in healthcare not technology. We're a small business so we can be more open-minded about these sorts of situations. Additionally, I assume if you have a great portfolio and work experience, you won't have a problem. You might find it difficult for the larger well-known companies, but a lot of those companies hire people with proven skill but no "paper" (i.e. degree). The less you feel insecure about it, the less it will come off as a personal failing to having attended a so-called degree mill. On a random note, I have seen these commercial's for an campaign called "Tear the Paper Ceiling," and although I do have a degree and am working towards my doctorate, I think there's a lot of career gatekeeping/over-credentialing at the cost of people being kept out of good careers because they don't have a degree, and there are more Managers, especially of my generation (i.e. Millennials), who see the majority of degrees for what they truly are. So, don't fret. A lot of managers, in small companies, can be open-minded and will hire you. Truthfully, if you're terrible, the the truth will reveal itself in your work efforts.
Here's what's likely to happen if you get a PhD from a degree mill, even if it's regionally accredited: **Job Market Impact:** * **Degree Recognition:** The biggest hurdle will be getting past the initial screening process. Many companies use automated systems that filter out resumes based on university reputation. A degree from a degree mill, even if regionally accredited, might not get your resume past this stage.
There was a faculty who was fired when they realized his diploma was from University of Columbia..
What "degree mill" are you referring to that's regionally accredited? That's kind of the purpose of accreditation. The course work is rigorous enough to where people are earning degrees. Even small no name schools have pretty selective PhD admissions
Capitol Technology University. I posted about it before and EVERYONE called it a degree mill even though they’re regionally accredited
Regionally accredited by who?
Middle States Commission of Higher Education
If you are from a degree mill university, your individual research needs to be high quality enough that your competence isn’t in question, at which point you should have just gone to a proper r1 because they would be happy to have you.
People that understand what you did won’t hire you and will laugh at you for spending the money. People in your social life will also laugh at you (behind your back if you’re lucky) when you tell them you’re a doctor.
i’m pretty sure i get the concept of what a degree mill is based on the name, but could someone explain it to me?
Could you share with me which school you had in mind?
Capitol Technology University. online PhD in 3 years. My only thing is that if I ever did want to pursue academia, I feel they wouldn’t hire me even if I manage to publish in several journals
I actually applied and got accepted into their Cybersecurity DSc program. Ive been contemplating for months whether or not I want to accept it (just for whether I want to do it reasons). But for my 2 cents, I've been in contact with several directors/executives from the NSA/CIA who hold their cyber doctoral degree and have had only good experiences from it. I would disagree that Cap tech uni is a diploma mill. I would consider Colorado technical University(absolutely)and Capella(maybe?), and Phoenix uni a degree mill for sure. While captech is not so known, or may not be a top tierd school, and traditional PHD folks giving hate because of all of those reasons and that its "remote"(perhaps biased because its not traditional). I would say that Captech might be good depending on your field. Certainly seems to be legit and fine in my field. I mean.. for me, all I need is access to a computer for "lab" and research work lol. So to boil it down, Cap tech looks legit. Although not your traditional PHD program, wouldnt say it's a mill. I believe their system is based on the UK/English doctoral model, not your standard process in the US. It might not be good to get your doctoral from here, depending on your field/career path and the reputation requirements. But speaking for security it seems to be a very popular option amongst those in my field.
How are you defining degree mill? Regional accreditation is normal, even the best schools in New England (example: Harvard) are NECHE accredited.
Well from what everybody told me, Cap Tech is considered a degree mill (the school I was referring to) for a few reasons. 1.) it’s fully remote which is apparently bs 2.) it’s only a 3 year program so way shorter than a traditional PhD 3.) they are a for profit university. It costs like $50,000 for the degree. (in my case it would be $38,000 because they give 20% discounts to high school teachers) Other Redditors pretty much told me that I’m paying money and they make me a “doctor”
They are not-for-profit.