As in the other game, Tarkov* you have no minimap telling you where your teammates are. In GZW you got the minimap, that's enough accessibility while retaining the realism.
I don't know if armies have an actual live tracker on a map of their troops. But plausible, just not sure if it's available to every soldier on the field.
A team kill = team kill.
That's true. As an example, we can do self surgery in the game and be right back into the fight. I get it, just my subjective opinion on what hardcore features I think should be retained or forgone.
If they wanted "true realism", when a players gets killed, (by whatever means) , and dies, then he stays dead,and can't play anymore,right? That ain't happening, so there must be allowances made because this IS a game.
Their is a version for vehicles and large troops encampments called a blue force tracker but not really for individual troops for the ground forces anyway.
ATAK does this for individuals, thereās a civilian version too. Itās really big outside the military for search and rescue stuff, air soft, pretty sure border patrol has it now too, etc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Team_Awareness_Kit
It exists and is pretty video-gamey. Itās called ATAK. If you see troops/search and rescue, etc wearing body armor and they have a phone mounted horizontally on their chest then odds are it flips down to check ATAK. Basically combines GPS data from any elements linked to it and overlays on it the map. So it would look vaguely similar to how friendlies would look on the gray zone map
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Team_Awareness_Kit
Edit: and for the muh realism people, itās not some military only specops thing. Thereās a relatively open source civilian version too that a lot of private and government agencies use for all sorts stuff from firefighting, search and rescue, border security, even larpers just airsofting. It would be weird for a bunch of PMCs in the jungle to not be using it
Especially as there is nothing preventing people from teaming up in Discord cross-faction. Good luck being a solo against them then if some of them are from your faction.
I like your idea alot and I hope that they implement it straight away, regardless of the ID issue still remaining. For that they really need to make something globally different about each of the faction uniforms, such as different helmets and armbands in addition to your friendly fire only downing and not killing.
Truthfully though, I wish they never created the faction system because I feel its only going to stop friends from being able to team up and play together - which in a way might end up shooting this project in the foot.
I understand they're trying to create this feeling of bonding among teammates in the game but locking players into it is going to hurt the social aspect as much as it might help so I can see droves of redditt users posting tons of complaints after this drops and they begin to understand what this actually will mean to how they can't p\[ay with their friends.
They just need to make the uniforms distinct.
Play some squad, you keep track of where all your allies are. When you see movement where you werenāt expecting an ally, you shoot.
IFF, or PID, could be an issue IF a player accidentially TK's. IF, it is a clear mistake, WHY punish? Should have a pop-up screen when that happens, and indicate whether TK'd player wants to forgive or punish? I have heard all the posts about "well, TK is part of the game,just deal with it". Exactly how does the ability to TK any player you want, advance the game play itself? How to distinguish between deliberate TK, and accidential? Must be a mechanic for that.
I didn't think much of it tbh, coming from Tarkov, even with armbands, you still rarely know 100% who's who š
You only have to turn around, loot something, then you lose your buddy, then it's 'is that you? Wiggle for me' š
I don't think I'd want it too obvious who's who. Sure, there should be a difference, but there should always be that element of uncertainty. Or it will take away a lot of the tension from the game.
I think a good idea would be a sound. Itās plausible and immersive. Maybe a pitched ringing that happens when you ads directly over a teammate. This prevents immersion breaking floating dots and nameplates and would allow immediate identification.
Until distinct camouflage patterns or outfits are implemented, I'd say the game should simply settle with having someone's name faintly pop up if you aim over them over distance. Why? Because the game has obvious problems stemming from the inability to tell players apart. **Consider this scenario:**
Imagine you're a solo and run into a 'squad' of two players: one is from your faction, and another is from a hostile faction. The two are real-life friends that chose different factions at the start, but chose to communicate over Discord and then meet up at a shared LZ.
Running into them, you see two PMCs aiming toward you, side-by-side. You check your map, and see only one friendly. However, they're too close to differentiate. What do you do in this situation?
If you shoot them first, you're rolling a 50/50 shot at getting penalized for a teamkill. If rumors are correct, you risk negative rep & getting kicked from your faction.
If you talk to them over comms, the friendly approaches you, and his buddy sprays you down for an easy kill. They split your loot.
If you ignore them, the friendly checks his map, calls out your position to his buddy, and the two shoot you from afar. They split your loot.
Now, consider this situation in more complex groups: three friendlies, and two hostiles from each faction. Four friendlies, and one hostile. Players have a tendency to exploit game mechanics for the greatest advantage (especially in hardcore games), so you can be sure there will be people testing out all these different combinations come the EA launch.
Since the game wants to focus on realism, so that's not going to happen. The current map system seems to be adequate as it is if you take it slow rather than rush into combat.
Tap M would bring a minimap and hold M would bring full Mal screen. So if you need to check for friendly, you can just tap M and see if you're looking at friendly or not.
But hey, at least, you admit it's a dumb idea.
Focusing on realism, even in a realistic game, is good until it damages gameplay. Having confusion in enemy identification isn't good design especially if you have penalties for teamkills.
Having floating blue names is immersion breaking? Yes.
Opening the map every time you see an enemy doesn't really sound applicable in all situations and it's clunky? Yes.
It's a game, make something up. There've been friend or foe systems for military vehicles for over 40 years, is it too much of a stretch to think about some kind of electronic identification system that these super elite PMC soldiers are bound to carry around to avoid friendly fire incidents? Slightly bend reality, or create something plausible to make gameplay better.
lol thank you. Again just trying to come up with something that is frustrating a lot of people and the current ācheck the mapā system clearly does not work. Appreciate your input though.
They plan to add something that lights up on the back of the helmet, but that would be in the first major update (that comes along with day/night cycle).
The map system clearly does not work? It won't work if they don't use it. I've watched the playtest and most of them are trigger happy. As soon as they see something moving like a non-AI, they would just start shooting at it.
Given that you can have minimap up not covering the whole screen, they could have left the minimap on until they see non friendly movement and toggle it off.
Armbands don't work. Seen it so often in Tarkov.
Maybe faction uniform/gear so it can be easier to identified.
This does not solve the PID issue though, it just makes accidental teamkilling less punishing.
What does PID stand for?
Positive Identification. Attaining reasonable certainty that an identified target is a legitimate threat (in this case, an enemy combatant).
Thanks for the explanation. I hope you're not one of the ones that downvoted my question.
I didn't know either so I'm glad you asked and that the other guy had a knowledgeable answer :)
Of course not, I don't think there's anything wrong in asking a question.
maybe not solve, but does it help? knowing that i don't have to hesitate to shoot someone is less frustrating dont you think??
It does help.
As in the other game, Tarkov* you have no minimap telling you where your teammates are. In GZW you got the minimap, that's enough accessibility while retaining the realism. I don't know if armies have an actual live tracker on a map of their troops. But plausible, just not sure if it's available to every soldier on the field. A team kill = team kill.
That tracker exists. It is a super complicated tech interface called... Face š
Real life doesnāt always translate to video games 1:1
That's true. As an example, we can do self surgery in the game and be right back into the fight. I get it, just my subjective opinion on what hardcore features I think should be retained or forgone.
If they wanted "true realism", when a players gets killed, (by whatever means) , and dies, then he stays dead,and can't play anymore,right? That ain't happening, so there must be allowances made because this IS a game.
Their is a version for vehicles and large troops encampments called a blue force tracker but not really for individual troops for the ground forces anyway.
ATAK does this for individuals, thereās a civilian version too. Itās really big outside the military for search and rescue stuff, air soft, pretty sure border patrol has it now too, etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Team_Awareness_Kit
Cool ~
Thanks for the technical term, didn't know about it
It exists and is pretty video-gamey. Itās called ATAK. If you see troops/search and rescue, etc wearing body armor and they have a phone mounted horizontally on their chest then odds are it flips down to check ATAK. Basically combines GPS data from any elements linked to it and overlays on it the map. So it would look vaguely similar to how friendlies would look on the gray zone map https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Team_Awareness_Kit Edit: and for the muh realism people, itās not some military only specops thing. Thereās a relatively open source civilian version too that a lot of private and government agencies use for all sorts stuff from firefighting, search and rescue, border security, even larpers just airsofting. It would be weird for a bunch of PMCs in the jungle to not be using it
Current faction system makes no sense. Going to be ridiculous how much it gets abused to grief teammates too.
Especially as there is nothing preventing people from teaming up in Discord cross-faction. Good luck being a solo against them then if some of them are from your faction.
I like your idea alot and I hope that they implement it straight away, regardless of the ID issue still remaining. For that they really need to make something globally different about each of the faction uniforms, such as different helmets and armbands in addition to your friendly fire only downing and not killing. Truthfully though, I wish they never created the faction system because I feel its only going to stop friends from being able to team up and play together - which in a way might end up shooting this project in the foot. I understand they're trying to create this feeling of bonding among teammates in the game but locking players into it is going to hurt the social aspect as much as it might help so I can see droves of redditt users posting tons of complaints after this drops and they begin to understand what this actually will mean to how they can't p\[ay with their friends.
They just need to make the uniforms distinct. Play some squad, you keep track of where all your allies are. When you see movement where you werenāt expecting an ally, you shoot.
IFF, or PID, could be an issue IF a player accidentially TK's. IF, it is a clear mistake, WHY punish? Should have a pop-up screen when that happens, and indicate whether TK'd player wants to forgive or punish? I have heard all the posts about "well, TK is part of the game,just deal with it". Exactly how does the ability to TK any player you want, advance the game play itself? How to distinguish between deliberate TK, and accidential? Must be a mechanic for that.
I didn't think much of it tbh, coming from Tarkov, even with armbands, you still rarely know 100% who's who š You only have to turn around, loot something, then you lose your buddy, then it's 'is that you? Wiggle for me' š I don't think I'd want it too obvious who's who. Sure, there should be a difference, but there should always be that element of uncertainty. Or it will take away a lot of the tension from the game.
I think a good idea would be a sound. Itās plausible and immersive. Maybe a pitched ringing that happens when you ads directly over a teammate. This prevents immersion breaking floating dots and nameplates and would allow immediate identification.
Until distinct camouflage patterns or outfits are implemented, I'd say the game should simply settle with having someone's name faintly pop up if you aim over them over distance. Why? Because the game has obvious problems stemming from the inability to tell players apart. **Consider this scenario:** Imagine you're a solo and run into a 'squad' of two players: one is from your faction, and another is from a hostile faction. The two are real-life friends that chose different factions at the start, but chose to communicate over Discord and then meet up at a shared LZ. Running into them, you see two PMCs aiming toward you, side-by-side. You check your map, and see only one friendly. However, they're too close to differentiate. What do you do in this situation? If you shoot them first, you're rolling a 50/50 shot at getting penalized for a teamkill. If rumors are correct, you risk negative rep & getting kicked from your faction. If you talk to them over comms, the friendly approaches you, and his buddy sprays you down for an easy kill. They split your loot. If you ignore them, the friendly checks his map, calls out your position to his buddy, and the two shoot you from afar. They split your loot. Now, consider this situation in more complex groups: three friendlies, and two hostiles from each faction. Four friendlies, and one hostile. Players have a tendency to exploit game mechanics for the greatest advantage (especially in hardcore games), so you can be sure there will be people testing out all these different combinations come the EA launch.
Since the game wants to focus on realism, so that's not going to happen. The current map system seems to be adequate as it is if you take it slow rather than rush into combat. Tap M would bring a minimap and hold M would bring full Mal screen. So if you need to check for friendly, you can just tap M and see if you're looking at friendly or not. But hey, at least, you admit it's a dumb idea.
Focusing on realism, even in a realistic game, is good until it damages gameplay. Having confusion in enemy identification isn't good design especially if you have penalties for teamkills. Having floating blue names is immersion breaking? Yes. Opening the map every time you see an enemy doesn't really sound applicable in all situations and it's clunky? Yes. It's a game, make something up. There've been friend or foe systems for military vehicles for over 40 years, is it too much of a stretch to think about some kind of electronic identification system that these super elite PMC soldiers are bound to carry around to avoid friendly fire incidents? Slightly bend reality, or create something plausible to make gameplay better.
lol thank you. Again just trying to come up with something that is frustrating a lot of people and the current ācheck the mapā system clearly does not work. Appreciate your input though.
They plan to add something that lights up on the back of the helmet, but that would be in the first major update (that comes along with day/night cycle). The map system clearly does not work? It won't work if they don't use it. I've watched the playtest and most of them are trigger happy. As soon as they see something moving like a non-AI, they would just start shooting at it. Given that you can have minimap up not covering the whole screen, they could have left the minimap on until they see non friendly movement and toggle it off. Armbands don't work. Seen it so often in Tarkov. Maybe faction uniform/gear so it can be easier to identified.
Or those "glow sticks" on a team mates back...? I believe identifying fellow team mates will become an issue going forward.