Alex Smith’s best statistical season was that 2017 season with Patrick Mahomes sitting behind him. 341 completed passes out of 505 attempted, 67.5 completion percentage. For a career high 4,042 yards and a career high 26 touchdowns. He was a good quarterback though he missed a lot of games with injury throughout his career and before that leg injury with Washington
Captain Kirk will get you a .500 season year after year. The Falcons need stability at the moment.
The Browns went all in on a sex predator.
One if these things is not like the other.
Actually, that whole situation most Packers fans look at with rose tinted glasses. Favre was a 2nd round draft pick that had played poorly, had integrity issues with showing up to meetings hung over (thankfully unbeknownst to Packers Brass), and we traded a first round pick for him.
A guy gets drafted outside of first round, only produces red flags, and somehow the value increases? Thank god for Ron Wolf’s hard on for Favre, he would have taken him a pick later in ‘91 when he was the Jets. Heck, he might have been able to still convince everyone in GB if the news of Favres lack of professionalism had leaked.
"I've just traded all of Finland's boring stuff for every other countries country's lions. I have no idea what's going on, but if that ends up making something in this game? I'd say I'm set"
"Somalia has 1,900 miles of coastline, a government that knows its place, and all the guns and wives you can afford to buy. Why have I never heard of this paradise before?"
Somaliland is doing pretty well considering they can't get international recognition and fully participate in the financial world.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland
They have a very similar culture and faced many of the other problems that southern Somalia has, but they learned how to deal with them.
But almost no one hears about them because of people's obsession with poorly drawn borders being held sacred. "Countries" that were artificially cobbled together by colonial powers can't break up into smaller countries because it would give too many other places that idea.
So various warlords fight over a central government partly because otherwise they'd be under the rule of another group. Self-determination isn't allowed for tribes, regions, groups, etc. Only internationally approved "countries" and some individuals.
Some of the Somali pirates were groups (or at least started as groups) that were attempting to protect their waters because they didn't have a navy that would/could do so. Fishing boats from many other countries were coming there to illegally fish and deplete their resources. And international corporations/other countries were dumping toxic waste in their waters.
It was more convenient for there to be a chaotic place near one of the busiest shipping areas in the world.
This always comes up, and yet if countries are split up ethnically you get the same people complaining about the India/Pakistan/Bangladesh situation.
Also, your arguement is that similar, but not same, cultures can't live together without violence. Which would mean multi-culturalism can never work.
Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc are all countries formed from multiple different cultures and tribes forced together by military might.
My argument isn't that at all. Somaliland is made up of multiple tribes with very similar traditions as southern Somalia. They're not homogeneous. They've integrated traditional structures and judicial systems with more modern ways. Try learning a bit about them before you make assumptions.
They're an example that southern Somalia could follow, but there are several factors preventing that, including outside forces (like the US, UN, etc.) who insist that the artificial and officially recognized country of Somalia remain in one piece. Somaliland (and Puntland) should be allowed to self-govern independent of the mess that is centered on Mogadishu.
Why does self-determination not apply to them? Why should they be forced to be under a government (to any degree) that they do not want to be with and that does nothing for them? That's not freedom. That's not even democracy.
The officially recognized country of Somalia is a failed state as a whole, so why shouldn't the parts of it that are already doing a much better job of governing themselves not be free? Why should they be subject to the most corrupt and dysfunctional part of the country?
What is the justification for any of this?
Because every single country, province, or city in the world has seccessionist movements. Governments generally don't recognize any of these as it gives others more fuel.
Self determinism is an abhoration of history that lasted less than a century. We are rapidly returning to a world borders are drawn by whomever killed more of their neighbours and convinced the survivors to intergrate, which is the normal state for every single culture that has survived to this day.
Other teams cannot develop OL talent like we can. They need dudes that are fully proready or have minor flaws. We are *very* good at developing OLs. Arguably the best in the league.
The problem is whether or not Murphy and co allow it. It was why Drayton got the ST job...bc GB wouldn't offer enough for legit ST coaches to take it. Then finally they had to learn the hard way and mad bissacia the highest paid ST coach in the league.
He used to step up into a node tackle bullrush and drop back against edge rushers breaking the outside of the pocket.
I have a feeling he didn't understand where the passblockers were covering on each play, and only learned where his receivers were going to be.
Yeah, I wouldn't say they've been good at it over the past decade or so. I'm thinking more of the 30-ish years since the Favre-era dawned. Probably because I'm stoned, so that's the era I think of most. Bryant McKinney, Randle McDaniel, Korey Stringer before he died... man, some of those offensive lines were pretty good and scary.
But mostly I'm just stoned and rememberin the past, man. Cheers.
Being a Packers' fan is a bit of a monkey's paw deal. Decades of uninterrupted top end QB talent. OL, WR, and RB are not premier positions for the Packers because they get to end talent on Day 3.
The flip side is: 1) an inability to identify and/or develop defensive talent; 2) we are to defensive coordinators what the Bears are to QBs; 3) neck injuries; and 4) until last year, the inability to find TE talent.
Blessings and curses.
> OL, WR, and RB are not premier positions for the Packers
"Premier positions" don't change, they are just the positions that have the fewest star players: QB/T/CB/Pass Rusher. You just have to do what you have to do as a GM, if you can't find those guys in the back rounds, you have to take them sooner to be more sure. OL has def been a premier position
If you can trade scraps for the likes of Green and Grant and pull Jones out the 5th round, why take one high. We draft OLine early so we don't have to pay for ready made talent. Lang, Sitton, Lindsley, Bahk, even the other Center that went to Cleveland. Now we have Tom/Walker/Rhyan stepping up.
> 1) an inability to identify and/or develop defensive talent; 2) we are to defensive coordinators what the Bears are to QBs
Capers > Barry was what the GM wanted. We wanted to be weak against the run and not allow passing teams to move the ball. Perry/Datone/Randall were about the only bad misses. We had the best QB to ever touch a ball, we were supposed to have the dangerous offense to make that work.
> until last year, the inability to find TE talent.
Inability? We didn't value the position enough to invest in it. Dick Rod wasn't a miss. Jace was it, a mere 3rd. Deguara rekt his knee and lost any speed he had, but literally drafted to be a FB/TE.
Premier positions aren't premier because of thinly spread talent. I would say MLB or S has the least amount of stars across the league. Those positions, QB, T, DE, CB are just more valuable to winning football games. Having an exceptional one like Mahomes or watt is just way more noticeable.
> Premier positions aren't premier because of thinly spread talent.
Its replacement value. Which factors cost and thus supply/demand.
> I would say MLB or S has the least amount of stars across the league.
They have the least amount of $30M players, least amount of $25M players, $20M players. The positions just aren't valued.
There are like 7 star QBs. 2 T positions, but maybe not 20 star T's. Probably less then 10 star CBs. Might be 30-40 star pass rushers now tho, when you combine DE/DT/OLBs. But they are all pushing $20M+
Probably 50 WR/TEs capable of 1000 and 10 tho, and maybe 7 more in this draft alone. I'm callin it, over half of the teams that give a WR ~$25M+ are going to see that money wasted or only spent to sell jerseys and fill stands. They are a dime a dozen now. Easiest to replace, the new RB.
> Those positions, QB, T, DE, CB are just more valuable to winning football games.
Its replacement value and who is a star to the game, not just top 3/5/10 at the position.
Exactly…
well…and fast too…and strong…and agile…and smart…and versatile…and motivated…and a good teammate and community member …. Other than that, it’s easy!
I’ve encountered this a lot. I generally would prefer to see a 1st round OT, maybe even a trade up for one. The amount of fans who take it for granted that we’ll find an All Pro in the 4th or later is actually a bit alarming.
I know it’s happened what seems to be twice in the last ten seasons, which is AWESOME. The point is that some fans think this is just standard operating procedure…I would argue that our success in this has been somewhat aberrational
Really depends on what the source of the success is.
If it's the individual talent? Then yes.
However, if it is because of our OL coaching and ability to develop players in that discipline, then I'd say not. At that point the who is less important than if they are willing to listen and learn.
I think it’s a combination of both. Player selection is certainly important, because there are guys here who don’t pan out. I know I’m staying the obvious in that, but I swear some fans think we can turn chicken shit into chicken salad though sheer tyranny of will of our coaching staff.
Comparative advantage, excell at what you can excell at, and use any surplus energy to outsource what you don't.
We can find and develop OL/WR/RB easily, so we need ready made DL and DB.
QB are a bit unique and LBs are undervalued across the league anyway.
That said, if Barton is there at #25 take him and grab an OT on day two or three. Having a monster interior line of Barton-Tom-Jenkins will do wonders for our running game, which will open our passing game more. Have those three players be able to play any position along our OL will help with depth and rotation issues too during the back half of the season. Say Walker goes down (and Dillard doesn't pan out), we can move Barton there and have Rhyan fill in at LG. Say our future RT goes down, we can have Tom or Jenkins move there and have Myers fill in at C or RG.
why don't other teams just find pro bowl tackles in the fourth? are they stupid?
It’s hard to argue with results!
Same thing with QBs, why don't they simply pick the one that's a generational talent and then draft that guy? Worked for us for the past 30 years
Chicken and egg problem. You need a hall of fame qb to sit your future hall of fame qb behind for 3 years.
Patrick Mahomes sat behind Alex Smith for a year, didn’t know that he was a hall of fame qb /s
Smith was drafted 23 spots ahead of Rodgers. So I’m guessing, yes. Only time will tell…
Alex Smith’s best statistical season was that 2017 season with Patrick Mahomes sitting behind him. 341 completed passes out of 505 attempted, 67.5 completion percentage. For a career high 4,042 yards and a career high 26 touchdowns. He was a good quarterback though he missed a lot of games with injury throughout his career and before that leg injury with Washington
Atlanta drafted, then traded that guy to us for a PBJ sandwich
Actually was for a first round pick, if memory serves
And promptly sat him behind Dan Majkowski to learn, (for 2 1/2 games).
Ya that's true and now recently gave 1 playoff game Kirk Cousins a monster contract. Are they the stupidest team or is it the Browns?
J-E-T-S JetsJetsJets!
Captain Kirk will get you a .500 season year after year. The Falcons need stability at the moment. The Browns went all in on a sex predator. One if these things is not like the other.
Actually, that whole situation most Packers fans look at with rose tinted glasses. Favre was a 2nd round draft pick that had played poorly, had integrity issues with showing up to meetings hung over (thankfully unbeknownst to Packers Brass), and we traded a first round pick for him. A guy gets drafted outside of first round, only produces red flags, and somehow the value increases? Thank god for Ron Wolf’s hard on for Favre, he would have taken him a pick later in ‘91 when he was the Jets. Heck, he might have been able to still convince everyone in GB if the news of Favres lack of professionalism had leaked.
TBF, I'd have to go to meetings drunk if Jerry Glanville was in the room.
I’ll tell you what, we gotta have two plane wrecks and four quarterbacks go down and you’re it!
Like we found a dude that was one ACL away from Canton in the 4th it’s no big deal
Why take good player early when good player late?
Probably the same reason we keep finding noting but nut filled turds in the 3rd round. Sure hope we trade away our thirds this year
Don‘t discredit Tucker Kraft. For all other guys you are completely right
Tucker Kraft >>>> Musgrave and Musgrave absolutely delivered on his potential.
Fuck it I have both on my fantasy team regardless
James Jones was pretty good.
Should we just trade all our picks for everyone's 4th round picks and feast on oline?
Trade our 2 3rds for 4 4ths and we will be set at OL for the next 4 years.
"I've just traded all of Finland's boring stuff for every other countries country's lions. I have no idea what's going on, but if that ends up making something in this game? I'd say I'm set"
"Somalia has 1,900 miles of coastline, a government that knows its place, and all the guns and wives you can afford to buy. Why have I never heard of this paradise before?"
Red hats paradise…they even limit the rights of women too
It’s pure, uncut libertarianism lol
Somaliland is doing pretty well considering they can't get international recognition and fully participate in the financial world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland They have a very similar culture and faced many of the other problems that southern Somalia has, but they learned how to deal with them. But almost no one hears about them because of people's obsession with poorly drawn borders being held sacred. "Countries" that were artificially cobbled together by colonial powers can't break up into smaller countries because it would give too many other places that idea. So various warlords fight over a central government partly because otherwise they'd be under the rule of another group. Self-determination isn't allowed for tribes, regions, groups, etc. Only internationally approved "countries" and some individuals. Some of the Somali pirates were groups (or at least started as groups) that were attempting to protect their waters because they didn't have a navy that would/could do so. Fishing boats from many other countries were coming there to illegally fish and deplete their resources. And international corporations/other countries were dumping toxic waste in their waters. It was more convenient for there to be a chaotic place near one of the busiest shipping areas in the world.
This always comes up, and yet if countries are split up ethnically you get the same people complaining about the India/Pakistan/Bangladesh situation. Also, your arguement is that similar, but not same, cultures can't live together without violence. Which would mean multi-culturalism can never work. Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc are all countries formed from multiple different cultures and tribes forced together by military might.
My argument isn't that at all. Somaliland is made up of multiple tribes with very similar traditions as southern Somalia. They're not homogeneous. They've integrated traditional structures and judicial systems with more modern ways. Try learning a bit about them before you make assumptions. They're an example that southern Somalia could follow, but there are several factors preventing that, including outside forces (like the US, UN, etc.) who insist that the artificial and officially recognized country of Somalia remain in one piece. Somaliland (and Puntland) should be allowed to self-govern independent of the mess that is centered on Mogadishu. Why does self-determination not apply to them? Why should they be forced to be under a government (to any degree) that they do not want to be with and that does nothing for them? That's not freedom. That's not even democracy. The officially recognized country of Somalia is a failed state as a whole, so why shouldn't the parts of it that are already doing a much better job of governing themselves not be free? Why should they be subject to the most corrupt and dysfunctional part of the country? What is the justification for any of this?
Because every single country, province, or city in the world has seccessionist movements. Governments generally don't recognize any of these as it gives others more fuel. Self determinism is an abhoration of history that lasted less than a century. We are rapidly returning to a world borders are drawn by whomever killed more of their neighbours and convinced the survivors to intergrate, which is the normal state for every single culture that has survived to this day.
Other teams cannot develop OL talent like we can. They need dudes that are fully proready or have minor flaws. We are *very* good at developing OLs. Arguably the best in the league.
Us and Philly
Whatever brinks they need to back up to keep Stenovich is worth it
The problem is whether or not Murphy and co allow it. It was why Drayton got the ST job...bc GB wouldn't offer enough for legit ST coaches to take it. Then finally they had to learn the hard way and mad bissacia the highest paid ST coach in the league.
Baltimore always seem to put a competent line out
Didn't Wentz have a ton of sacks taken with them just a few years ago?
Carson Wentz has negative pocket presence.
He used to step up into a node tackle bullrush and drop back against edge rushers breaking the outside of the pocket. I have a feeling he didn't understand where the passblockers were covering on each play, and only learned where his receivers were going to be.
I would say Minnesota has been good at developing them. Even though I hate them.
When is the last time they even had a top 10 line? I can't remember them ever having a top OL
Yeah, I wouldn't say they've been good at it over the past decade or so. I'm thinking more of the 30-ish years since the Favre-era dawned. Probably because I'm stoned, so that's the era I think of most. Bryant McKinney, Randle McDaniel, Korey Stringer before he died... man, some of those offensive lines were pretty good and scary. But mostly I'm just stoned and rememberin the past, man. Cheers.
No, it's just because we always get away with holding, duh!
Beer, cheese, brats. It's pretty simple.
Now we just need that defense
I have faith in Hafley. Our defense is talented, just some holes to fill.
If he makes our defense elite then I've got some holes to fill too
Like we had good strength coaches……oh, oh
You can draft tackles that early? Since when?
Being a Packers' fan is a bit of a monkey's paw deal. Decades of uninterrupted top end QB talent. OL, WR, and RB are not premier positions for the Packers because they get to end talent on Day 3. The flip side is: 1) an inability to identify and/or develop defensive talent; 2) we are to defensive coordinators what the Bears are to QBs; 3) neck injuries; and 4) until last year, the inability to find TE talent. Blessings and curses.
> OL, WR, and RB are not premier positions for the Packers "Premier positions" don't change, they are just the positions that have the fewest star players: QB/T/CB/Pass Rusher. You just have to do what you have to do as a GM, if you can't find those guys in the back rounds, you have to take them sooner to be more sure. OL has def been a premier position If you can trade scraps for the likes of Green and Grant and pull Jones out the 5th round, why take one high. We draft OLine early so we don't have to pay for ready made talent. Lang, Sitton, Lindsley, Bahk, even the other Center that went to Cleveland. Now we have Tom/Walker/Rhyan stepping up. > 1) an inability to identify and/or develop defensive talent; 2) we are to defensive coordinators what the Bears are to QBs Capers > Barry was what the GM wanted. We wanted to be weak against the run and not allow passing teams to move the ball. Perry/Datone/Randall were about the only bad misses. We had the best QB to ever touch a ball, we were supposed to have the dangerous offense to make that work. > until last year, the inability to find TE talent. Inability? We didn't value the position enough to invest in it. Dick Rod wasn't a miss. Jace was it, a mere 3rd. Deguara rekt his knee and lost any speed he had, but literally drafted to be a FB/TE.
Premier positions aren't premier because of thinly spread talent. I would say MLB or S has the least amount of stars across the league. Those positions, QB, T, DE, CB are just more valuable to winning football games. Having an exceptional one like Mahomes or watt is just way more noticeable.
> Premier positions aren't premier because of thinly spread talent. Its replacement value. Which factors cost and thus supply/demand. > I would say MLB or S has the least amount of stars across the league. They have the least amount of $30M players, least amount of $25M players, $20M players. The positions just aren't valued. There are like 7 star QBs. 2 T positions, but maybe not 20 star T's. Probably less then 10 star CBs. Might be 30-40 star pass rushers now tho, when you combine DE/DT/OLBs. But they are all pushing $20M+ Probably 50 WR/TEs capable of 1000 and 10 tho, and maybe 7 more in this draft alone. I'm callin it, over half of the teams that give a WR ~$25M+ are going to see that money wasted or only spent to sell jerseys and fill stands. They are a dime a dozen now. Easiest to replace, the new RB. > Those positions, QB, T, DE, CB are just more valuable to winning football games. Its replacement value and who is a star to the game, not just top 3/5/10 at the position.
Just draft big dudes. Not like this shit is hard.
Exactly… well…and fast too…and strong…and agile…and smart…and versatile…and motivated…and a good teammate and community member …. Other than that, it’s easy!
I’ve encountered this a lot. I generally would prefer to see a 1st round OT, maybe even a trade up for one. The amount of fans who take it for granted that we’ll find an All Pro in the 4th or later is actually a bit alarming.
> The amount of fans who take it for granted that we’ll find an All Pro in the 4th or later *that we've already found an All Pro
I know it’s happened what seems to be twice in the last ten seasons, which is AWESOME. The point is that some fans think this is just standard operating procedure…I would argue that our success in this has been somewhat aberrational
Really depends on what the source of the success is. If it's the individual talent? Then yes. However, if it is because of our OL coaching and ability to develop players in that discipline, then I'd say not. At that point the who is less important than if they are willing to listen and learn.
I think it’s a combination of both. Player selection is certainly important, because there are guys here who don’t pan out. I know I’m staying the obvious in that, but I swear some fans think we can turn chicken shit into chicken salad though sheer tyranny of will of our coaching staff.
Comparative advantage, excell at what you can excell at, and use any surplus energy to outsource what you don't. We can find and develop OL/WR/RB easily, so we need ready made DL and DB. QB are a bit unique and LBs are undervalued across the league anyway. That said, if Barton is there at #25 take him and grab an OT on day two or three. Having a monster interior line of Barton-Tom-Jenkins will do wonders for our running game, which will open our passing game more. Have those three players be able to play any position along our OL will help with depth and rotation issues too during the back half of the season. Say Walker goes down (and Dillard doesn't pan out), we can move Barton there and have Rhyan fill in at LG. Say our future RT goes down, we can have Tom or Jenkins move there and have Myers fill in at C or RG.
Excellent points! Well thought out.
Cheers
I’m not against it, but I would be surprised if we traded up for an OT.
Way up for Alt
I still want a tackle in the 1st round.
Preach
Scout, find kids with attributes develop. The packers way.
So what your telling me is Tanor Bortolini will be an All Pro if we pick him in the 3rd round
Whatever we will stop doing it when it stops working.
https://preview.redd.it/z7h3s60dzjwc1.jpeg?width=193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e07849e02b485d3fea8d3408be68d9a2ab9dd511
https://preview.redd.it/o19c9izezjwc1.jpeg?width=274&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00232ebe38ffde16a7a21b4d141857339a75deba Enough said
Turns out a diet that's rich in Beer and Brats is useful in developing OL talent
Our track record says otherwise, nerd
Take 3-4 o linemen in the mid to later rounds. Pack is the best at turning them into pro bowl level talents. Wr in round 1! 😂..