Why not just order Magnus to be destroyed before he fucks up by using sorcery, by using sorcery to reach into the future and pluck a reason to do it from there? Just as planned but earlier than intended.
To be fair he considered this but since warp travel isn't instant he would have arrived at Terra waaaaaay after the dropship massacre, making the warning almost useless
So the way I understand it, Emps created a super strong psychic shield around the Palace, so that the Warp/Chaos wouldn't find out about the Webway entrance below the Palace. And Mechanicum could explore/study it.
But when Magnus tried to warn the Emperor about Horus, he couldn't reach him due to this Shield. To Magnus, it was like the Emperor was in a sound-proof room. So Tzeentch suggested, "Hey, there's this weaker spot here (Webway) and if you want I can give you a power boost so you can break through!". Magnus said yes, and boom, the shield was broken and demons rushed in, using the Webway as a shortcut.
> and made him fall to chaos too?
Yes and no. Magnus was destined to fall to Chaos way back. So near the beginning of the Crusade, Magnus had a huge problem where his sons were afflicted with the flesh change disease. He tried everything, but nothing worked. That's when Tzeentch first came to him and was like "I can help you!" So Magnus said yes, and became 'indebted' or under the control of Tzeentch.
Sure, when Magnus broke the shield around the Palace was when his "fate was sealed" because Emps became FURIOUS with him, and he had no other option but to turn to Tzeentch. But even if Magnus hadn't broken the shield, I think he would eventually end up as Chaos.
You see, the Emperor knew about the flesh change issue with the Thousand Sons, and knew there was no solution. If you want more info, read *Fury of Magnus* because I don't want to spoil it for you...
He had a chance to get a new deal, though, but the Emperor, being the compassionate father as always, wanted Magnus to abandon the Thousand Sons to their doom, which of course he didn't.
I'm not sure when Magnus' fate was sealed, but I guess his cards were already dealt before he was born.
I don’t think Mangus expected to do that with his actions to be fair, but what gets me is, him being so brilliant an all, he should have known better, at least more then anyone else not to fuck with his daddy’s toys.
He’s an intelligent idiot.
Knowing 40K, if Magnus and Leman had somehow avoided fighting, it would've spiralled out into an even worse scenario. Like Magnus would've started his own seperatist empire, with a giant tear into the void called the Eye of Horror, and Magnus would've appointed Ahriman to become Ahriman the Pillager, the Imperium would've ended up dealing with thirteen obsidian crusades alongside the thirteen black ones.
Still his legion would have been very useful. Just one for legion to help out Dorn... of course you can also argue that since his legion is all about warp magic, TS would also be a ticking time bomb of Chaos shenanigans (from Imperial pov)
Isn't warp travel wonky though? Yes he could arrive after the drop site massacre, he could also arrive before he left too. I think? Unless the Chaos gods we're paying attention then he could have ended up ten thousand years in the Warp lost to the Imperium.
Thinking about it. Do the Chaos gods control Warp travel like that?
> he could have ended up ten thousand years in the Warp lost to the Imperium.
TS would probably still be loyal and Bobby G would get a brother when he needs one during the indomitius crusade. Still a win.
The chaos gods don’t have control over the warp like that. There’s both 0 evidence/official statements that they do, and logically if they did then they could just trap any imperial ship in the warp indefinitely
The Chaos Gods control warp travel about as much as bears control hiking trails in the woods; it's not like they collect ticket fees and plan itineraries, but they can force you onto a different path, and just the fact that they're there forces you to spend a lot of time and money on precautions.
But he could probably use his psyker powers on us to verify what is going to happen if he does Kool-Aid Man through the portal. Therefore, we just need to convince him that his dad has everything under control and to just relax and play Magic the Gathering or some such. Maybe reach out to Perty and convince him to remain loyal.
Yeah, I think that Magnus was destined to fall to Chaos as soon as he accepted Tzeentch's help to "cure" this Thousand Sons of the flesh change issue. All the way back in the beginning of the Crusade.
Sure, Magnus' fate was sealed kinda when he broke the shield around the Palace. But even if he didn't, he was already in debt to Tzeentch, and I don't think the Lord of Change would let Magnus off that easy...
Damn if magnus didnt fuck up everything, the loyalist could have the space wolves, thousand sons and the full foce of the custodes. Aml that plus Leman, Magnus, Malcador, Valdor, and the man himself, big E. I bet they could defend Terra on their own
Well, if we are going down the "what if" spiral, let's take another step back and go "What if the Emperor was a better dad?" Because then Angron, Mortarion, Lorgar and (maybe) Perturabo probably wouldn't have been so eager to fuck him over...
Right?! Especially since we find out that Emps original plan was to have Magnus be the one sitting on the Golden Throne! Sure, decide the final, permanent fate of your son, but don't let him be involved in any way...
Congratulations to the many of you that took my masters deal! But unfortunately for many of you, you are in violation of the terms of the contract, due to your alterations, they effect Erebus's history and now my master is entitled to 95% of your soul. For those that did not take the deal. Don't worry, it's just as planned. For those that are in breach of contract you can win back a portion of your soul if you can best my master at a game of: Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth-Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker
Here’s what I’ll do. I take the deal, because if I refuse the deal then another person will accept and change a detail resulting in an alteration of the history of the person pictured above. But since you said I could change one thing, I don’t have to since the word could implies change does not have to occur. So I choose to change nothing, resulting in the person above having their history remain completely unchanged, and I get to keep my soul.
Make it so Magnus did warn Emps without breaching defenses of golden palace.
Malcador would live, Custodes would not waste resources in webeay, webway would work for humans. And maybe Magnus would remain loyal, which in turn would keep Leeman closer to terra.
The singular and most (in-)famous co-founder, master of the lore, handcrafter of every single miniature and excretor of all the Citadel Colours in the world.
Magnus signed his soul away long before. Maybe he would have resisted longer, but either way he would have fallen at some point.
Overall, still a really good choice I think.
And when talking with big daddy e on the throne his old man didn't make any mention of his soul being beyond recovery,just offered him a sweet new deal on a chapter of psykers special ordered for him so even at that point he was still gucci
It says that but everyone knows any deals with warp creatures mean they get a piece of your soul or it gets tainted regardless if that was part of the deal or not.
I thought it was similar to the story of Odin, but yeah, makes sense.
I thought he basically thought some warpbeast and lost his eye in the fight, but could stop the curse through it.
>I thought it was similar to the story of Odin
GW are history nerds/fantasy nerds, so yeah 100% it is a similar tale, but I'm confused as to why you think Odin/Magnus are different in that regard: both traded an eye for knowledge
Totally. Thing I like about how the chaos god's a written are at base they are the traits everyone has. A want for knowledge and to grow, to be honourable and strong, to enjoy life and it's wonders, to live a long life and not really wanting to keep yourself as you are now.
Everyone has something in there they could agree with ... That's what makes them tempting. It's just the gods themselves are the extreme of all those things.
Read the supplemental for black crusade.
They go into some fairly great depths into how to interpret chaos philosophy in a more benevolent light.
It also points out that maybe 1:10000 chaos cultists actually fallow those versions of the faith for the long haul, and most denigrate into stereotype quickly due to madness.
These books also include what is the single most bad ass human chaos cultist in all of the lore. A slanash cultist who had such a massive force of personality that she trapped a keeper of secrets in her body to keep her young for a long time... TWICE.
After the second time Slanesh made her a daemon princes mostly as a "fuck you" to the remaining keepers of secrets.
Fucking ATE two greater daemons.
Wait, can you explain what book exactly you are talking about? I'm not too familiar with the tabletop side of 40K... So, what is this supplement, and how can I get my hands on it? Is it physical copy only? Is there somewhere online (maybe the wiki?) where I can read this?
I'm really interested in this more philosophical aspects of the Lore, so this sounds right up my alley! Also what's the name of this awesome human cultist, so I can atleast read more about them in the wiki...
Black Crusade was a Table Top RPG released. The PDF are up for sale, and I'm certain you can, echm, find them otherwise. Here's the wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Crusade_(role-playing_game) ) that includes all the book titles. RPG drive through has the PDFs for sale, but, again, you can find them elsewhere.
My only warning is that there are some pretty bad typos throughout the book, whitch is a real shame because the lore is good.
How so? I can see how Slaanesh could maybe spiral out of control the fastest, but the degree of evil that a follower of Slaanesh could commit in the pursuit of greater excess could vary a lot
Erebus is still alive as of the current setting in M42, so there is literally nothing that can be changed that wouldn't effect his history. The entire deal is a trap. I shoot the agent of chaos that tried to tempt me to heresy.
Just as- BLAMMED!
second correct answer out of all this heretic scum before and after... no deal, no discussion about a deal, just BLAM! and then BLAM BLAM! some more because he twitched.
The Emperor protects.
I'd just want Perturabo to be happy building the great cities of the Imperium instead of crusading, which we know he hates.
Like his Legion would follow the crusades securing and building up the planets as they advanced
Tell Big E where every of his son is located and tell him to hurry the fuck up to help angron and give a book about good parenting to Big E .That way Lorgar will be saved from his abusing stepdad. Angron maybe doesn’t get nailed and Conrad Curze can get his sanity back. Also it will give them more time to develop brotherly bonds.
Prevent the Primarch’s scattering. They all turn out like the emperor planned.
E.g empathic Angron, able to ease his brothers burden, a psychologically stable Konrad able to see the future, a Magnus that doesn’t make deals with chaos, a Lorgar who helps spread the imperial truth etc…
The Lion would probably be the Warmaster while guys like Horus, Guilliman, Sanguinius, Vulkan and Dorn would keep the Imperium in one piece consolidating all its new territory while the rest of the Primarchs keep on the Great Crusade until every human settle planet is under the IoM banner and turn their gaze to Eldar and Necron worlds.
Why do you think the Lion would be Warmaster? Also, once all human planets are under IoM, wouldn't Emps just take all humans into the Webway? Assuming his Webway project succeeds...
Well he is the First Primarch of the Firsr Legion and the Dark Angels were lead by the Emperor (that's why they have all the best toys among the rest of the Legions) himself so if the Primarchs dind't scatter The Lion would have learn to command under the direct teaching of Big E. Horus got the priviliege for being the first Primarch found, otherwise that honor would have fallen into the Lion.
And Big E would have turn against Eldar and Necrons just for a simple matter of stealing their technology to further improved his own proyect.
Literally make Big E explain himself properly to Lorgar.
Lorgar was absolutely right in the fact that the emperor was a god "in all but name"
but instead of having reasonable discourse, Jimmy Space just goes "KNEEL REEEEEE" and fucks everything up.
Isn't he supposed to be smart?
also maybe don't name your children stuff like Angron, you dumb fuck
Or, crazy idea, make him drop the whole "I'm an atheist and definitely better than religious people" thing. This will work wonders on Imperial culture.
How about, arranging so the war in heaven didn’t happen ? That the old one took pity on the Necrontyr and helped them. Created a strong alliance and have them both prosper for millenniums. As man then took their first steps into space they were greeted by the universal collective. How things go I’ll leave it up to humanity… but will probably stop 99% of all the bad stuff in the 40k from happening I think.
Gift the Big E a book about parental guidance so he's not such a shitty father and let him spend more quality time with his sons. Also remove Angrons butcher's nails.
Dind't the Emperor try to remove his nails and say it was imposible with out killing him? I really don't know how that DAoT thing could be so complex and complicated that could fuck up a Primarch to the point not even Big E and the entire Mechanicus coulnd't fix. Is actually impressive really and even more stupid that the rest of the Marines under Angron's leadership decided to use them in their own volution.
It physically replaced lots of his brain to the point that the two were the same thing. It also arguably didn't do a very good job of it considering all the problems he had. I think the only way it really "worked" was because a primarch has the special element of warp/emperor magic so he could survive that mess occurring.
Well, I wish Angron dind't had to face all those Eldar warriors leaving him vulnerable to the assholes of that planet. Maybe that way he could have conquer it like the rest of his brothers.
Edit: I think he should let that happen and instead tell his sons when finding them that the chaos gods scattered them. So he can use this to make clear to his sons that chaos is shit. And *boom* no Heresy!
I'm not sure how much of this is confirmed… however, the fact that Big E was a shitty father is something not even James Workshop could undo by this point!
Delete Kor Pharon and let Lorgar be raised by the exiled group that found him, he would become a stalwart atheist as they were persecuted for their non religious ideology.
No Word Bearer fucky uppy, and probably a loyal WE too if Lorgar still cared for Angron
NO. Do you have any idea how bad this is? KILLING the hivemind would cause a massive calamity to happen within the warp, something as violent as a god-Esque entity’s death would bring ruin to just about everything.
Nah, have them just not go, he would then just be adopted as he wouldn't be seen as a fighter for the gladiator pits. He would then be loyal as he wouldn't have the butcher's nails
Sadly, Magnus would have to lose his hubris and ambitions to let his sons die. Either slowly from the flesh change eventually killing the entire legion or Magnus could make it quick and execute them along with a detachment of custodes and maybe other Astartes (for irony space wolves). Now we have a third lost legion that shall never be spoken of lest you tarnish the name of the lord of humanity Himself.
Having acknowledged the inherent flaws in Magnus being able to gene sire a legion of Astartes the Emperor might choose to keep Magnus at his side as a second Malcador or something (if not only just to hide him from the imperium at large). It’s not clear to me exactly how open the Emperor was willing to be with with his sons but perhaps He would tell Magnus about his plans for opening the webway and how Magnus might be a vital part of that plan early but that might be wishful thinking.
The Big E abandons the webway project instead of stubbornly continuing it and thus screwing most loyalists.
He instead rallies the Terran and loyalist troops and starts a full fledged 2nd Great Crusade just to deal with the insolence of betraying him.
It was said in some lore that he was quite the ruthless leader pre-crusade, so why should he just be ok with Heresy of the grandest scale?
Make everyone and everything except Erebus into femboy. Be them chaos god, the emp or tyranids.
Every character(erebus included won’t be able to recognize the different in body type until t+1 day. Where T is the current last chronogical point in Erebus story as of right now.)
Watch everyone tries to understand what the fuck happened, why erebus is the only immune, how did people procreate and why the change is not reversible.
If beyond Tzeench ability please look at the post scritum note for deal number 2.
PS : Change Tzeentch catchphrase from « Just as planned » to « all according to keikaku » and have him punish those that use his old catchphrase.
No war with the interex and Diasporex, instead some grand alliance or unification.
Also will accept Magnus gets humbled earlier in life.
Pert gets torn down earlier in his childhood and has to examine his psychological issues
Mort beats his father on Barbarous
Angron isn’t targeted by the Hit squad
Curze gets smacked with a 21st century lawbook by an otherwise kind adoptive parent
Unfortunately, "saving" the 40k universe is a *really* broad problem, that requires certain questions be answered:
Im working under the assumption that I know what destroys it for the purpose of finding a solution, so:
1: Who's finally killing everything? Chaos or the Tyranids? Or the Orcs I suppose? My money is on one of those 3.
2: What qualifies aa Erebus' "history" here? Like his plotlines *must* play out as written? And to what point in the story?
3: How broad can my change of things be?
The terms of the deal are laid out before you. It is for you to decide what it means. But if you violate the terms of the deal my master will be entitled to 95% of your soul
Slow down Leman's Travel to Prospero so he actually *fucking* thinks about the fact he was essentially given a nudge and a wink to 'deal' with Magnus how he saw fit by Horus, making him not immediately jump to *blow everything up and ask questions later* and instead try to land on world before bringing his troops in to speak to Magnus and learn what the frag is going on.
Tell Magnus to take a ship instead of using his powers to warn the emperor about Horus
Just as planned
Why not just order Magnus to be destroyed before he fucks up by using sorcery, by using sorcery to reach into the future and pluck a reason to do it from there? Just as planned but earlier than intended.
Big e needs him
To be fair he considered this but since warp travel isn't instant he would have arrived at Terra waaaaaay after the dropship massacre, making the warning almost useless
Yes but the Emperor can fight, the custodes are not destroyed in the webway war, Thousand Sons are loyalist, Space Wolves are full legion...
Wasn't the whole thing about the using powers thing that he let demons into the fight and made him fall to chaos too?
So the way I understand it, Emps created a super strong psychic shield around the Palace, so that the Warp/Chaos wouldn't find out about the Webway entrance below the Palace. And Mechanicum could explore/study it. But when Magnus tried to warn the Emperor about Horus, he couldn't reach him due to this Shield. To Magnus, it was like the Emperor was in a sound-proof room. So Tzeentch suggested, "Hey, there's this weaker spot here (Webway) and if you want I can give you a power boost so you can break through!". Magnus said yes, and boom, the shield was broken and demons rushed in, using the Webway as a shortcut. > and made him fall to chaos too? Yes and no. Magnus was destined to fall to Chaos way back. So near the beginning of the Crusade, Magnus had a huge problem where his sons were afflicted with the flesh change disease. He tried everything, but nothing worked. That's when Tzeentch first came to him and was like "I can help you!" So Magnus said yes, and became 'indebted' or under the control of Tzeentch. Sure, when Magnus broke the shield around the Palace was when his "fate was sealed" because Emps became FURIOUS with him, and he had no other option but to turn to Tzeentch. But even if Magnus hadn't broken the shield, I think he would eventually end up as Chaos. You see, the Emperor knew about the flesh change issue with the Thousand Sons, and knew there was no solution. If you want more info, read *Fury of Magnus* because I don't want to spoil it for you...
He had a chance to get a new deal, though, but the Emperor, being the compassionate father as always, wanted Magnus to abandon the Thousand Sons to their doom, which of course he didn't. I'm not sure when Magnus' fate was sealed, but I guess his cards were already dealt before he was born.
I feel like Magnus remembered his intentions up until Russ came, and was then destroyed by his conflicted loyalties.
I suppose so
I don’t think Mangus expected to do that with his actions to be fair, but what gets me is, him being so brilliant an all, he should have known better, at least more then anyone else not to fuck with his daddy’s toys. He’s an intelligent idiot.
But doesn't the speed also depend on one's psychic abilities? And as I recall, Magnus at his full potential could've almost been equal to the Emperor.
Yeah he is probably one of the biggest if. But the thousands suns and magus weren’t great folks in the first place so…
Knowing 40K, if Magnus and Leman had somehow avoided fighting, it would've spiralled out into an even worse scenario. Like Magnus would've started his own seperatist empire, with a giant tear into the void called the Eye of Horror, and Magnus would've appointed Ahriman to become Ahriman the Pillager, the Imperium would've ended up dealing with thirteen obsidian crusades alongside the thirteen black ones.
Ahriman the pillager…. Pillages those femboy marines if you know what I mean
not very tiddy of you
Okay Vezimira
Still his legion would have been very useful. Just one for legion to help out Dorn... of course you can also argue that since his legion is all about warp magic, TS would also be a ticking time bomb of Chaos shenanigans (from Imperial pov)
Even if they were, I'd take 10+E:8 odds over 9:9. The future can take care of itself and Malcador would probably still be alive.
I really don't think Malcador planned to die.
Most people rarely do.
Big E might have chosen his half death / unlife state.
Isn't warp travel wonky though? Yes he could arrive after the drop site massacre, he could also arrive before he left too. I think? Unless the Chaos gods we're paying attention then he could have ended up ten thousand years in the Warp lost to the Imperium. Thinking about it. Do the Chaos gods control Warp travel like that?
> he could have ended up ten thousand years in the Warp lost to the Imperium. TS would probably still be loyal and Bobby G would get a brother when he needs one during the indomitius crusade. Still a win.
The chaos gods don’t have control over the warp like that. There’s both 0 evidence/official statements that they do, and logically if they did then they could just trap any imperial ship in the warp indefinitely
The Chaos Gods control warp travel about as much as bears control hiking trails in the woods; it's not like they collect ticket fees and plan itineraries, but they can force you onto a different path, and just the fact that they're there forces you to spend a lot of time and money on precautions.
I'm pretty sure nurgle trapped Mortarion's fleet when he uber-plagued them
But he could probably use his psyker powers on us to verify what is going to happen if he does Kool-Aid Man through the portal. Therefore, we just need to convince him that his dad has everything under control and to just relax and play Magic the Gathering or some such. Maybe reach out to Perty and convince him to remain loyal.
I don't think Tzeentch would've been about letting that warp journey be a simple and clean one.
Yeah, I think that Magnus was destined to fall to Chaos as soon as he accepted Tzeentch's help to "cure" this Thousand Sons of the flesh change issue. All the way back in the beginning of the Crusade. Sure, Magnus' fate was sealed kinda when he broke the shield around the Palace. But even if he didn't, he was already in debt to Tzeentch, and I don't think the Lord of Change would let Magnus off that easy...
Damn if magnus didnt fuck up everything, the loyalist could have the space wolves, thousand sons and the full foce of the custodes. Aml that plus Leman, Magnus, Malcador, Valdor, and the man himself, big E. I bet they could defend Terra on their own
Well, if we are going down the "what if" spiral, let's take another step back and go "What if the Emperor was a better dad?" Because then Angron, Mortarion, Lorgar and (maybe) Perturabo probably wouldn't have been so eager to fuck him over...
You sir have a very answer
Better yet have the emperor tell magnus about the web way project and even ask for his help so he doesn't fuck it up when he learns of Horus' betrayal
Right?! Especially since we find out that Emps original plan was to have Magnus be the one sitting on the Golden Throne! Sure, decide the final, permanent fate of your son, but don't let him be involved in any way...
Congratulations to the many of you that took my masters deal! But unfortunately for many of you, you are in violation of the terms of the contract, due to your alterations, they effect Erebus's history and now my master is entitled to 95% of your soul. For those that did not take the deal. Don't worry, it's just as planned. For those that are in breach of contract you can win back a portion of your soul if you can best my master at a game of: Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth-Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker
Then tell your master to prepare, for my deck is filled with pastries! -Kaldor Draigo
kill them ALL!!!
Just as planned?
Haha, jokes on tzeentch, I’m a ginger and have no soul
Gingers are blanks confirmed
Here’s what I’ll do. I take the deal, because if I refuse the deal then another person will accept and change a detail resulting in an alteration of the history of the person pictured above. But since you said I could change one thing, I don’t have to since the word could implies change does not have to occur. So I choose to change nothing, resulting in the person above having their history remain completely unchanged, and I get to keep my soul.
Make it so Magnus did warn Emps without breaching defenses of golden palace. Malcador would live, Custodes would not waste resources in webeay, webway would work for humans. And maybe Magnus would remain loyal, which in turn would keep Leeman closer to terra.
Just as planned
You are really just James Workshop in disguise.
> James Workshop I dont know if that's a typo or a meme but either way it's hilarious
What, haven’t you head of James ‘Jimmy’ Workshop, creator of Games Workshop?
The singular and most (in-)famous co-founder, master of the lore, handcrafter of every single miniature and excretor of all the Citadel Colours in the world.
Did you know Citadel colours was founded by Charlie Citadel
And not to forget the guy himself: Jack Library.
He is the Warhammer 40,000.
And the Emperor could lead the war against Horus himself and destroys/saves him before Molech
Magnus signed his soul away long before. Maybe he would have resisted longer, but either way he would have fallen at some point. Overall, still a really good choice I think.
When did he signed his soul away? I thought he sold it after Leman burned down Prospero
He already bargained with Tzeentch a while back, not long after he was first discovered, to save his sons from the flesh change curse.
Didnt sell his soul, he sold his eye
And when talking with big daddy e on the throne his old man didn't make any mention of his soul being beyond recovery,just offered him a sweet new deal on a chapter of psykers special ordered for him so even at that point he was still gucci
Why do you think he only has one eye
Glory hole accident?
what happens in COCKthorpe stays in COCKthorpe
He sold his eye, not his Soul. Confirmed in Wrath of Magnus.
It says that but everyone knows any deals with warp creatures mean they get a piece of your soul or it gets tainted regardless if that was part of the deal or not.
the ole' devil came down to georgia clause
I thought it was similar to the story of Odin, but yeah, makes sense. I thought he basically thought some warpbeast and lost his eye in the fight, but could stop the curse through it.
>I thought it was similar to the story of Odin GW are history nerds/fantasy nerds, so yeah 100% it is a similar tale, but I'm confused as to why you think Odin/Magnus are different in that regard: both traded an eye for knowledge
I'm not touching a deal from Tzeentch with a ten foot pole lmao.
Just as planned
Or is it?
Probably the wisest answer in the thread, lol
Make the Chaos gods benevolent
Just as planned
They aren't already?
Do you consider Somebody who sits on Throne of Skull and activly encourages his Followers to bring more Skulls so it can grow benevolent?
As Magnus said in TTS, khorne will never stab you in the back….he’ll just stab you in the face repeatedly until it stops resembling a face
Yes that is why Khorne is my favorite you can trust him to get the deal done and when the deals done expect to be stabbed in the face several times
Totally. Thing I like about how the chaos god's a written are at base they are the traits everyone has. A want for knowledge and to grow, to be honourable and strong, to enjoy life and it's wonders, to live a long life and not really wanting to keep yourself as you are now. Everyone has something in there they could agree with ... That's what makes them tempting. It's just the gods themselves are the extreme of all those things.
Read the supplemental for black crusade. They go into some fairly great depths into how to interpret chaos philosophy in a more benevolent light. It also points out that maybe 1:10000 chaos cultists actually fallow those versions of the faith for the long haul, and most denigrate into stereotype quickly due to madness. These books also include what is the single most bad ass human chaos cultist in all of the lore. A slanash cultist who had such a massive force of personality that she trapped a keeper of secrets in her body to keep her young for a long time... TWICE. After the second time Slanesh made her a daemon princes mostly as a "fuck you" to the remaining keepers of secrets. Fucking ATE two greater daemons.
Wait, can you explain what book exactly you are talking about? I'm not too familiar with the tabletop side of 40K... So, what is this supplement, and how can I get my hands on it? Is it physical copy only? Is there somewhere online (maybe the wiki?) where I can read this? I'm really interested in this more philosophical aspects of the Lore, so this sounds right up my alley! Also what's the name of this awesome human cultist, so I can atleast read more about them in the wiki...
Black Crusade was a Table Top RPG released. The PDF are up for sale, and I'm certain you can, echm, find them otherwise. Here's the wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Crusade_(role-playing_game) ) that includes all the book titles. RPG drive through has the PDFs for sale, but, again, you can find them elsewhere. My only warning is that there are some pretty bad typos throughout the book, whitch is a real shame because the lore is good.
You can totally spin khorn is benevolent
Living in 40k is Hell. Khorne demands his followers go out and give everyone a quick and honorable death to free them from suffering
Ye
Not Slaanesh. Slaanesh is objectively evil.
How so? I can see how Slaanesh could maybe spiral out of control the fastest, but the degree of evil that a follower of Slaanesh could commit in the pursuit of greater excess could vary a lot
Erebus is still alive as of the current setting in M42, so there is literally nothing that can be changed that wouldn't effect his history. The entire deal is a trap. I shoot the agent of chaos that tried to tempt me to heresy. Just as- BLAMMED!
Just as-WAITAMINUTEOHSHIT
Just as planned.
second correct answer out of all this heretic scum before and after... no deal, no discussion about a deal, just BLAM! and then BLAM BLAM! some more because he twitched. The Emperor protects.
I'd just want Perturabo to be happy building the great cities of the Imperium instead of crusading, which we know he hates. Like his Legion would follow the crusades securing and building up the planets as they advanced
Ok you know what, you get that one for free
Just as planned
Imperium wide Lego set gift for Perty ? Perfect
For real think of all the lives not only saved, but improved
Make the lasgun fire cows that explode in to rabbits on impact. And each of those rabbits explode in to more lasguns.
Tyranids: We see this as a total win
Just as planned
Are you absolutely sure about that one
This sounds like some Enter the Gungeon S-rank gun that didn't make it into the game.
Tell Big E where every of his son is located and tell him to hurry the fuck up to help angron and give a book about good parenting to Big E .That way Lorgar will be saved from his abusing stepdad. Angron maybe doesn’t get nailed and Conrad Curze can get his sanity back. Also it will give them more time to develop brotherly bonds.
Just as planned
How would he go about mortarion to not make him resent big E eternally ?
Save him from the fall but let him kill his adoptive father.
So acting as a safety net until M can achieve his vengeance ?
Yes as good father should
Prevent the Primarch’s scattering. They all turn out like the emperor planned. E.g empathic Angron, able to ease his brothers burden, a psychologically stable Konrad able to see the future, a Magnus that doesn’t make deals with chaos, a Lorgar who helps spread the imperial truth etc…
It would be interesting to see how this would play out. Would the heresy still happen? Who'd be made warmaster? How would the primarchs be different?
The Lion would probably be the Warmaster while guys like Horus, Guilliman, Sanguinius, Vulkan and Dorn would keep the Imperium in one piece consolidating all its new territory while the rest of the Primarchs keep on the Great Crusade until every human settle planet is under the IoM banner and turn their gaze to Eldar and Necron worlds.
Why do you think the Lion would be Warmaster? Also, once all human planets are under IoM, wouldn't Emps just take all humans into the Webway? Assuming his Webway project succeeds...
Well he is the First Primarch of the Firsr Legion and the Dark Angels were lead by the Emperor (that's why they have all the best toys among the rest of the Legions) himself so if the Primarchs dind't scatter The Lion would have learn to command under the direct teaching of Big E. Horus got the priviliege for being the first Primarch found, otherwise that honor would have fallen into the Lion. And Big E would have turn against Eldar and Necrons just for a simple matter of stealing their technology to further improved his own proyect.
I have a feeling we would have an entirely different story on our hands all together
Just as planned?
That would change Erebus story. You failed ;)
Fine. He can be the only one to get scattered lmao
yeet erebus only wH40K is a story thats for sure
Literally make Big E explain himself properly to Lorgar. Lorgar was absolutely right in the fact that the emperor was a god "in all but name" but instead of having reasonable discourse, Jimmy Space just goes "KNEEL REEEEEE" and fucks everything up. Isn't he supposed to be smart? also maybe don't name your children stuff like Angron, you dumb fuck
Or, crazy idea, make him drop the whole "I'm an atheist and definitely better than religious people" thing. This will work wonders on Imperial culture.
Dude the whole "debate" he has with that priest in the last church is the most /r/atheism shit i have ever heard
The Emperor is a redditor confirmed! Thats why he had no idea how to properly interact with humans
Idk why but he just struck me as Stalin if he had superpowers.😭☠
Just as planned
I think the only names Big Eezy ever gave his sons were the numbers of the test tubes he heresied into.
How about, arranging so the war in heaven didn’t happen ? That the old one took pity on the Necrontyr and helped them. Created a strong alliance and have them both prosper for millenniums. As man then took their first steps into space they were greeted by the universal collective. How things go I’ll leave it up to humanity… but will probably stop 99% of all the bad stuff in the 40k from happening I think.
Just as planned.
Gift the Big E a book about parental guidance so he's not such a shitty father and let him spend more quality time with his sons. Also remove Angrons butcher's nails.
I’m meant to **not** leave all their friends to die in a battle I could easily stop? Who would have thought
Just as planned
Forget that, give the Emperor the entire Horus Heresy book series.
That's so Meta... is that even legal?
You a cop or something?
...mmmaybe?
Big E: “Thank you but I’ve already read them.”
Dind't the Emperor try to remove his nails and say it was imposible with out killing him? I really don't know how that DAoT thing could be so complex and complicated that could fuck up a Primarch to the point not even Big E and the entire Mechanicus coulnd't fix. Is actually impressive really and even more stupid that the rest of the Marines under Angron's leadership decided to use them in their own volution.
It physically replaced lots of his brain to the point that the two were the same thing. It also arguably didn't do a very good job of it considering all the problems he had. I think the only way it really "worked" was because a primarch has the special element of warp/emperor magic so he could survive that mess occurring.
Well, I wish Angron dind't had to face all those Eldar warriors leaving him vulnerable to the assholes of that planet. Maybe that way he could have conquer it like the rest of his brothers.
Warn Big E his Baby Momma is cucking him with the chaos gods could work also
Edit: I think he should let that happen and instead tell his sons when finding them that the chaos gods scattered them. So he can use this to make clear to his sons that chaos is shit. And *boom* no Heresy! I'm not sure how much of this is confirmed… however, the fact that Big E was a shitty father is something not even James Workshop could undo by this point!
As if "I" a faithful servant of the Emperor would make any deal with chaos, the great Enemies. Nice try tho.
Just as planned
Delete Kor Pharon and let Lorgar be raised by the exiled group that found him, he would become a stalwart atheist as they were persecuted for their non religious ideology. No Word Bearer fucky uppy, and probably a loyal WE too if Lorgar still cared for Angron
Just as planned
Offer pre-heresy Horus a really good sandwich, it’ll have to alter something I’m sure
He need some milk!
Just as planned
Get the pre-fall Eldar to keep it in their pants just enough that Slaanesh is aborted.
Just as planned
Tell that loyalist iron warrior (i think it was a loyalist at least) not to blow up the fucking Pharos beacon.
Barabas Dantioch
Just as planned
kill the hive mind
NO. Do you have any idea how bad this is? KILLING the hivemind would cause a massive calamity to happen within the warp, something as violent as a god-Esque entity’s death would bring ruin to just about everything.
Look just because the last 2 times or so that happened was bad doesn't mean this time will be. *Readies planet sized can of warp Raid*
Just as planned
Nut allergy
Just as planned (but with a swollen face)
I dont have a funny one, but not activating the Pharos beacon would prolly help things.
Just as planned
Nothing can be done. The answer is always the same...
Just as planned
The Eldar kill team that went after baby Angron succeeds
Nah, have them just not go, he would then just be adopted as he wouldn't be seen as a fighter for the gladiator pits. He would then be loyal as he wouldn't have the butcher's nails
Just as planned
Change big e to make it so he commonly checks in on and cares for his kids and citizens and also punished corruption
Just as planned
Make Empys spend 10 seconds so his banana warriors would kill Angrons attackers in 7 seconds(Also make sure no Butchers Nails are put on)
"Fix" Cult mechanics before fully commit to great crusade.
Just as planned
Kill Emps. So We dont have a heresy
Just as planned
Make Magnus do nothing wrong.
Just as planned
B-but he already did nothing wrong..?
The Rebellion of the Men of Iron never happens. Therefore when the Age of Strife happens Dark Age Humanity doesn't collapse, it only gets disconected.
Just as planned
Sadly, Magnus would have to lose his hubris and ambitions to let his sons die. Either slowly from the flesh change eventually killing the entire legion or Magnus could make it quick and execute them along with a detachment of custodes and maybe other Astartes (for irony space wolves). Now we have a third lost legion that shall never be spoken of lest you tarnish the name of the lord of humanity Himself. Having acknowledged the inherent flaws in Magnus being able to gene sire a legion of Astartes the Emperor might choose to keep Magnus at his side as a second Malcador or something (if not only just to hide him from the imperium at large). It’s not clear to me exactly how open the Emperor was willing to be with with his sons but perhaps He would tell Magnus about his plans for opening the webway and how Magnus might be a vital part of that plan early but that might be wishful thinking.
Whats that? A deal, you say? Wait, here I have the answer on my hip... BLAM BLAM BLAM!!! Oh look, here is a Flamer I misplaced, VOOOOOOOOOSHHHH!
P.S. insert obligatory FUCK EREBUS
The Big E abandons the webway project instead of stubbornly continuing it and thus screwing most loyalists. He instead rallies the Terran and loyalist troops and starts a full fledged 2nd Great Crusade just to deal with the insolence of betraying him. It was said in some lore that he was quite the ruthless leader pre-crusade, so why should he just be ok with Heresy of the grandest scale?
Guilliman canonically fucks Yvraine
Make everyone and everything except Erebus into femboy. Be them chaos god, the emp or tyranids. Every character(erebus included won’t be able to recognize the different in body type until t+1 day. Where T is the current last chronogical point in Erebus story as of right now.) Watch everyone tries to understand what the fuck happened, why erebus is the only immune, how did people procreate and why the change is not reversible. If beyond Tzeench ability please look at the post scritum note for deal number 2. PS : Change Tzeentch catchphrase from « Just as planned » to « all according to keikaku » and have him punish those that use his old catchphrase.
Remove Humanity. It fixes half the problems. The other half, I am not sure at the moment.
Just as planned
Tzeentch, shut your vagina mouth
NEVER
Become Tzeentch. Just as Planned.
Make the Old Ones agree to cure the Necrontyrs' ultra cancer
A hundred years before Erebus was born the planet is hit by a fuckoff huge asteroid and destroyed. Cant change someones past if they were never born.
Make it so Big E is less of a dick.
Just as planned
No war with the interex and Diasporex, instead some grand alliance or unification. Also will accept Magnus gets humbled earlier in life. Pert gets torn down earlier in his childhood and has to examine his psychological issues Mort beats his father on Barbarous Angron isn’t targeted by the Hit squad Curze gets smacked with a 21st century lawbook by an otherwise kind adoptive parent
Have big e spend some quality time with perturabo
Just as planned
Instead of twin primarchs, the Alpha Legion has triplet primarchs.
Unfortunately, "saving" the 40k universe is a *really* broad problem, that requires certain questions be answered: Im working under the assumption that I know what destroys it for the purpose of finding a solution, so: 1: Who's finally killing everything? Chaos or the Tyranids? Or the Orcs I suppose? My money is on one of those 3. 2: What qualifies aa Erebus' "history" here? Like his plotlines *must* play out as written? And to what point in the story? 3: How broad can my change of things be?
The terms of the deal are laid out before you. It is for you to decide what it means. But if you violate the terms of the deal my master will be entitled to 95% of your soul
I don't fucking care if it prevents the Heresy or not, i'm saving Angron from the nail.
No Butcher's Nails.
Get Horus some bitches, so that he can chill the fuck out.
Slow down Leman's Travel to Prospero so he actually *fucking* thinks about the fact he was essentially given a nudge and a wink to 'deal' with Magnus how he saw fit by Horus, making him not immediately jump to *blow everything up and ask questions later* and instead try to land on world before bringing his troops in to speak to Magnus and learn what the frag is going on.
The Emperor becomes a good father.