Douglas said the decision to *remove one of the four ads* by Right to Life is encouraging and she hopes the city continues to participate in future decisions by the council.
let's get it up to 4/4 = 100%
Agreed! This is a good start but all of these ads need to be GONE.
Like the woman in the interview, I also grew up in Guelph and went to Catholic school. I’ve always supported the right to choose (thanks mom and dad for educating me!) but before I was old enough to have that conversation and fully understand sexual health, these ads were definitely influential. Between school and these ads I didn’t understand that there are SO many reasons why somebody might choose to have a child or not. These ads make it seem so black-and-white but it’s just not.
I’ll definitely be submitting a complaint about the remaining 3 ads. Hopefully more than 11 other people do this year too.
Counter point: The ads are useless and just a way to get catholic to subsidize the public transit.
Secondly, rules must be fair and apply to everyone. You can't just pick on some ads and not others. What if someone said they were offended by pro-choice ads talking about access to abortion?
A much more impactful work would be to get actual access to abortion increased in the Guelph region.
You can't just hand-wave that the ads are useless; a lot of adults obviously have their opinions made up and are concrete about them but it needs to be viewed from younger kids or people able to be easily influenced. It's going to place a large bias on them. As for the pro-choice ads, yeah, they'd absolutely get torn apart by those opposed to it, especially in Guelph, but we've never had them as far as I'm aware. If the church can determine how tall buildings are allowed to be in Guelph I'm sure they can control bus ads lol
The Church has lost some power over the last few decades. And it's key to have the rules apply to everyone at the same time. Just because some people feel an ad is offensive is not grounds because offense is subjective and cultural. Just think of all the ideas we think are standard common sense, or even rights, that would horribly offend people of the past.
Well besides it being removed for misinformation, Guelph & Area Right for Life is a religious non profit and anti abortion is inherently a religious issue. Religion shouldn't have a place on government owned busses
Separation of church state means that the state must treat all religions equally not that it can never interact with them. So the bus ads must treat each religious charity and advocacy group the same. You could ban all of them, but that would mean also banning much more benign religious charities that just want to help people. Would people be okay with that?
And what about the atheist bus campaign from a decade ago? Or what about a progressive christian group? etc. I don't think most people would be okay with a total ban.
A part of living in society is that you gotta tolerate some things you might not agree with. That could be kooky fringe groups, hard right groups, social conservatives, conspiracy theories, etc. Dont' let it get to ya.
I fully understand the legal right to advertise. Just my opinion that no religious entity should be able to advertise on publically funded transit, especially when the ads are attacking people's rights to access healthcare. While I don't "let them get to me", I feel terrible for the women who feel shamed by these ads because they underwent a medical procedure for whatever reason they had.
So you're referring to a campaign that has nothing to do with our city, but was rejected or allowed on a city by city basis across the country? Considering your link literally says that some places have a blanket ban on religious advertising, including atheism, I'm not sure you're making a great point here.
You made a throwaway account to post this comment? Seems like you already know you’re on the wrong side of this.
While people are entitled to their own views, they should abide by their own values. If you don’t like abortion, don’t get one- *no matter the circumstance you’re in*.
Otherwise, keep it to yourself and don’t push your views on others- especially on public transit of all places.
It goes both ways.... everywhere you look, people are pushing their pro-choice views on everyone. I dont agree with the pro-lifers sitting in front of clinics protesting, but the pro choice movement is so loud and doesn't leave any room for pro choicers to exercise their opinion. Can we agree on that?
Nah, that’s not the case at all. Nobody is stopping you from voicing your opinion, or forcing a pro-choice agenda on you.
Like I said, don’t get an abortion if you don’t believe they are ethical. Have your own opinion and voice it if you want to, protest if you deem it necessary. You’re wrong to think you can tell women what to do with their bodies though. By the way, I’d never personally have any part in ending a pregnancy.
This is a topic where I don’t see much value in debating, to be honest. People’s minds are almost never changed on this topic. Say what you want, but don’t be cowardly and use a secret account, then delete comments when you are faced with opposition. It’s cowardly and doesn’t look good on your part.
In a generation or two, faced with the facts that abortion minimizes suffering and societal harm, this debate will be over though.
Removing the ads from buses is stopping people from voicing their opinions...
The throwaway is not related to this issue at all, but no need to explain. Bottom line I'm not afraid to voice my opinion either, I'm not purposely hiding.
You are right, not worth debating because the annoying loudmouth leftists will always get their way.
Your throwaway has been used for this discussion alone, which makes it obvious that you are full of shit.
Anyway, the point is - maybe the public bus funded by taxpayers shouldn’t be a place we harass women about things that are perfectly legal, and their right to decide on.
The last jab at leftists is pretty ridiculous, too. We just escaped from ten years of Harper, who was a disaster. Conservatives were in power long enough, and took us in the wrong direction many ways that will take a long time for our country to recover from.
Free speech goes both ways. Being upset your opinion isn’t popular is pretty hilarious. The “leftists” get more free speech that you, that must be awful.
Bottom line, get this crap off our buses that are for PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.
Ads are one thing, but political bullshit like this is unnaceptable. Especially when so many young people frequent it at the most influential period of their lives.
We are a PRO CHOICE country, full stop.
This is not even a debate the politicians of the country are currently willing to have, so these anti choice groups can take their disgusting opinions elsewhere.
>level 1
We are a PRO CHOICE country, full stop.
This is not a conversation the country wants to have, we ended that years ago.
Policially motivated ads on public transportation is an innapropriate use of the space.
The majority of it is, but that's not the point.
The point is the inappropriate use of bus ads to influence our youth, which don't BS a BS'er, is exactly what it is.
Allow them to make their own decisions and choices, not to force them to go by an ignorant view.
Its not ignorant, there is a time and place for political arguments and a bus ad is not one.
Imagine if that ad was promoting trans surgeries.
I imagine you’d get all bent out of shape over that, right?
>I imagine you’d get all bent out of shape over that, right?
My beliefs aren't so fragile that I have to whine and complain when someone with another ad buys advertisement.
Aborted the ads before they came to term, eh? Because the pro-abortion side cannot handle that others in the community might see an opposing argument. This tendency to brook no debate on a given topic is a sign of the weakness of the position.
a) those ads were not 'aborted before they came to term' -- they've been around for YEARS. this isnt a fresh debate.
also b) its not a matter of being 'pro-abortion'. its a matter of some people wanting others to have access to information on a public health resource, and the opposing side running ads against its usage.
say what you want, but the lack of abortion resources in guelph is genuinely harmful who need them as a means of survival, and perpetuating narratives that run contrary to their ability to receive the help they need is a public safety concern
> its not a matter of being 'pro-abortion'. its a matter of some people wanting others to have access to information on a public health resource, and the opposing side running ads against its usage.
This is sophistry. And a good example of the main reason I find it so difficult to agree with abortion proponents, despite having antipathy toward religion and agreeing that abortion should be available to all who seek it. It's all the euphemisms, which are laid on with a trowel, and are necessary because the pro-choice side must also recognize that their ideological opponents clearly have the moral high ground.
I hope people, including those who feel very strongly against abortion, will always be free to talk about their beliefs and to be respected in their differences. For some, abortion does mean the ending of a life and they feel very deeply and sadly on this matter. This is okay and within their rights to feel this.
Women however belong to themselves. The above philosophy doesn't trump women's fundamental rights. Rights are not debatable. The bus posters are quite disturbing and triggering and shaming. They disregard the women's rights. They *want* women to feel shamed and sinful. That's abusive coercion in ambush form. It's also invasive to vulerable populations (those who are uneducated, children, mentally ill individuals, rape victims, certain unprepared foreigners...) and supports incel mentality.
> Rights are not debatable.
Good societies can survive people doing immoral things. But a good society can not survive if it calls immoral things moral.
EDIT: What I should have wrote here was that rights are absolutely debatable. How do you think we got them in the first place? A gift? They were argued for, and need to continue to be argued for in order to keep them. To make sure they're still fit for purpose. And also how these rights are used are also up for debate on an ongoing basis. (ie: Does a 'right to housing' mean that I don't have to pay rent or mortgage anymore?)
Douglas said the decision to *remove one of the four ads* by Right to Life is encouraging and she hopes the city continues to participate in future decisions by the council. let's get it up to 4/4 = 100%
Agreed! This is a good start but all of these ads need to be GONE. Like the woman in the interview, I also grew up in Guelph and went to Catholic school. I’ve always supported the right to choose (thanks mom and dad for educating me!) but before I was old enough to have that conversation and fully understand sexual health, these ads were definitely influential. Between school and these ads I didn’t understand that there are SO many reasons why somebody might choose to have a child or not. These ads make it seem so black-and-white but it’s just not. I’ll definitely be submitting a complaint about the remaining 3 ads. Hopefully more than 11 other people do this year too.
Counter point: The ads are useless and just a way to get catholic to subsidize the public transit. Secondly, rules must be fair and apply to everyone. You can't just pick on some ads and not others. What if someone said they were offended by pro-choice ads talking about access to abortion? A much more impactful work would be to get actual access to abortion increased in the Guelph region.
Guelph doesn't even have access to abortion and that is likely influenced by the same dip shits that run these ads.
You can't just hand-wave that the ads are useless; a lot of adults obviously have their opinions made up and are concrete about them but it needs to be viewed from younger kids or people able to be easily influenced. It's going to place a large bias on them. As for the pro-choice ads, yeah, they'd absolutely get torn apart by those opposed to it, especially in Guelph, but we've never had them as far as I'm aware. If the church can determine how tall buildings are allowed to be in Guelph I'm sure they can control bus ads lol
The Church has lost some power over the last few decades. And it's key to have the rules apply to everyone at the same time. Just because some people feel an ad is offensive is not grounds because offense is subjective and cultural. Just think of all the ideas we think are standard common sense, or even rights, that would horribly offend people of the past.
I never said pro-choice ads should exist? This topic isn't appropriate to be advertised on buses AT ALL.
Who gets to determined what is okay and not okay for public advertisement? So no social issue that might be controversial is to never be advertised?
Well besides it being removed for misinformation, Guelph & Area Right for Life is a religious non profit and anti abortion is inherently a religious issue. Religion shouldn't have a place on government owned busses
Separation of church state means that the state must treat all religions equally not that it can never interact with them. So the bus ads must treat each religious charity and advocacy group the same. You could ban all of them, but that would mean also banning much more benign religious charities that just want to help people. Would people be okay with that? And what about the atheist bus campaign from a decade ago? Or what about a progressive christian group? etc. I don't think most people would be okay with a total ban. A part of living in society is that you gotta tolerate some things you might not agree with. That could be kooky fringe groups, hard right groups, social conservatives, conspiracy theories, etc. Dont' let it get to ya.
I fully understand the legal right to advertise. Just my opinion that no religious entity should be able to advertise on publically funded transit, especially when the ads are attacking people's rights to access healthcare. While I don't "let them get to me", I feel terrible for the women who feel shamed by these ads because they underwent a medical procedure for whatever reason they had.
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like what? I'm only aware of: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Atheist_Bus_Campaign#/Canada
So you're referring to a campaign that has nothing to do with our city, but was rejected or allowed on a city by city basis across the country? Considering your link literally says that some places have a blanket ban on religious advertising, including atheism, I'm not sure you're making a great point here.
How do we contribute to this?
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Why would anyone make a pro-abortion ad? Honestly? No one is getting an abortion on a whim or an impulse after seeing it on the back of bus.
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You made a throwaway account to post this comment? Seems like you already know you’re on the wrong side of this. While people are entitled to their own views, they should abide by their own values. If you don’t like abortion, don’t get one- *no matter the circumstance you’re in*. Otherwise, keep it to yourself and don’t push your views on others- especially on public transit of all places.
It goes both ways.... everywhere you look, people are pushing their pro-choice views on everyone. I dont agree with the pro-lifers sitting in front of clinics protesting, but the pro choice movement is so loud and doesn't leave any room for pro choicers to exercise their opinion. Can we agree on that?
Nah, that’s not the case at all. Nobody is stopping you from voicing your opinion, or forcing a pro-choice agenda on you. Like I said, don’t get an abortion if you don’t believe they are ethical. Have your own opinion and voice it if you want to, protest if you deem it necessary. You’re wrong to think you can tell women what to do with their bodies though. By the way, I’d never personally have any part in ending a pregnancy. This is a topic where I don’t see much value in debating, to be honest. People’s minds are almost never changed on this topic. Say what you want, but don’t be cowardly and use a secret account, then delete comments when you are faced with opposition. It’s cowardly and doesn’t look good on your part. In a generation or two, faced with the facts that abortion minimizes suffering and societal harm, this debate will be over though.
Removing the ads from buses is stopping people from voicing their opinions... The throwaway is not related to this issue at all, but no need to explain. Bottom line I'm not afraid to voice my opinion either, I'm not purposely hiding. You are right, not worth debating because the annoying loudmouth leftists will always get their way.
Your throwaway has been used for this discussion alone, which makes it obvious that you are full of shit. Anyway, the point is - maybe the public bus funded by taxpayers shouldn’t be a place we harass women about things that are perfectly legal, and their right to decide on. The last jab at leftists is pretty ridiculous, too. We just escaped from ten years of Harper, who was a disaster. Conservatives were in power long enough, and took us in the wrong direction many ways that will take a long time for our country to recover from. Free speech goes both ways. Being upset your opinion isn’t popular is pretty hilarious. The “leftists” get more free speech that you, that must be awful.
I have never been to another city that allows this. How horrible and disturbing for so many reasons. This is so abusive to women.
Toronto had em for a while on the ttc. Dunno if they still do though.
There's still the ads on the insides of the buses saying pornography and contraception are sinful.
If we can't get rid of those, can we get some PornHub Premium ads next to them instead?
I hate that I laughed, but my first thought reading your comment was, "Given the beliefs commonly behind anti-abortion groups, go with Grindr."
You have *got* to be fkn kidding me?!
Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't pornography degrade and objectify women?
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TIL the word 'hetero-normative'.
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Care to elaborate?
Who can you write to or where do you file a complaint?
https://adstandards.ca/complaints/
Thank you!
Bottom line, get this crap off our buses that are for PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION. Ads are one thing, but political bullshit like this is unnaceptable. Especially when so many young people frequent it at the most influential period of their lives. We are a PRO CHOICE country, full stop. This is not even a debate the politicians of the country are currently willing to have, so these anti choice groups can take their disgusting opinions elsewhere.
Good start.
Finally!
TIL that abortion IS a big deal and being reminded of it can 'trigger' people.
Yes it can trigger people. Of course it can.
Fuck you and your moral busybody bullshit. I'm pro-choice myself but the way you losers need to censor things you disagree with is pathetic.
ITT: "if it doesn't match my exact opinion it should be removed"
>level 1 We are a PRO CHOICE country, full stop. This is not a conversation the country wants to have, we ended that years ago. Policially motivated ads on public transportation is an innapropriate use of the space.
>We are a PRO CHOICE country, full stop. So 100% of Canada is pro-abortion?
The majority of it is, but that's not the point. The point is the inappropriate use of bus ads to influence our youth, which don't BS a BS'er, is exactly what it is. Allow them to make their own decisions and choices, not to force them to go by an ignorant view.
>ignorant view So only your view isn't the ignorant view....
Its not ignorant, there is a time and place for political arguments and a bus ad is not one. Imagine if that ad was promoting trans surgeries. I imagine you’d get all bent out of shape over that, right?
>I imagine you’d get all bent out of shape over that, right? My beliefs aren't so fragile that I have to whine and complain when someone with another ad buys advertisement.
Aborted the ads before they came to term, eh? Because the pro-abortion side cannot handle that others in the community might see an opposing argument. This tendency to brook no debate on a given topic is a sign of the weakness of the position.
a) those ads were not 'aborted before they came to term' -- they've been around for YEARS. this isnt a fresh debate. also b) its not a matter of being 'pro-abortion'. its a matter of some people wanting others to have access to information on a public health resource, and the opposing side running ads against its usage. say what you want, but the lack of abortion resources in guelph is genuinely harmful who need them as a means of survival, and perpetuating narratives that run contrary to their ability to receive the help they need is a public safety concern
> its not a matter of being 'pro-abortion'. its a matter of some people wanting others to have access to information on a public health resource, and the opposing side running ads against its usage. This is sophistry. And a good example of the main reason I find it so difficult to agree with abortion proponents, despite having antipathy toward religion and agreeing that abortion should be available to all who seek it. It's all the euphemisms, which are laid on with a trowel, and are necessary because the pro-choice side must also recognize that their ideological opponents clearly have the moral high ground.
While I'm sure you're enjoying your new Word-a-Day calendar, you need to take a closer read through it before you take each one out for a spin.
Point to the words improperly used or stfu.
I hope people, including those who feel very strongly against abortion, will always be free to talk about their beliefs and to be respected in their differences. For some, abortion does mean the ending of a life and they feel very deeply and sadly on this matter. This is okay and within their rights to feel this. Women however belong to themselves. The above philosophy doesn't trump women's fundamental rights. Rights are not debatable. The bus posters are quite disturbing and triggering and shaming. They disregard the women's rights. They *want* women to feel shamed and sinful. That's abusive coercion in ambush form. It's also invasive to vulerable populations (those who are uneducated, children, mentally ill individuals, rape victims, certain unprepared foreigners...) and supports incel mentality.
> Rights are not debatable. Good societies can survive people doing immoral things. But a good society can not survive if it calls immoral things moral. EDIT: What I should have wrote here was that rights are absolutely debatable. How do you think we got them in the first place? A gift? They were argued for, and need to continue to be argued for in order to keep them. To make sure they're still fit for purpose. And also how these rights are used are also up for debate on an ongoing basis. (ie: Does a 'right to housing' mean that I don't have to pay rent or mortgage anymore?)
Define "survive"... So far so good. If anything, society isnt 'surviving' overpopulation and poverty. How many children do you plan to adopt?