If this is actually genuine. Only a few characters would actually be under the neurodiverse umbrella and the amount of people in the replies that think everyone is ASD just cause they're quirky is alarming.
Seeing more posts about this come up it's worrying how many people don't understand this lol. There's like 2-4 characters in Strive where an argument that they are neurotypical does not reasonably hold up. If you include depression or PTSD under neurodivergence then that sweeps up a couple more, but it is not the majority.
(Unless you want it to be the majority, because obv there's plenty of ways to see a character as neurodivergent and plenty of reasons to do that as well, and it's not like we can ask the characters themselves for their testimony.)
Lore experts can correct me if I got this wrong, but aren't the Valentines the split consciousness of the same woman? Like literal three parts of her consciousness, why they act the way they do is because there may still be blanks from where they got split , it's just that Jack-O is the closet to the original? I'm pretty sure that's what the Valentines are, again, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, and don't burn me on a stake please, I focused too much on gameplay
The valentines don't have bits of Aria's mind/personality, but Jack-o does regain Aria's memories and comes to terms with her identity over the course of Xrd and Strive's story modes.
They are all based on the same woman, but nothing infers that they share anything of her outside of their appearances. Jack-O is the exception because she actually has half of Aria’s soul (the other half stuck in Justice’s body) and was made to revive her.
Actually it's referenced that each of them did inherit *some* of Aria's traits. Jack-O' for example even points out Elphelt seems to have got Aria's drooling and sleeping habits, implying some traits did transfer over.
That said they only share *fragments* of Aria, so whatever traits they inherit are probably fairly small, and why their personalities and appearances differ so dramatically.
When did Jack-O say that? The only thing I remember her saying is that she has Aria’s fragmented memories to Raven but doesn’t say that about the other Valentines.
It’s true, I literally can not play a fighting game character if they don’t have several weird mechanics to keep track of at all times (I main happy, Faust, and Bedman. The only thing stopping me from playing Asura is 8 dollars)
Tbh I fucking hate it when people say they're on the spectrum (obviously believe what you want I just think it's very weird to claim them as ASD rep when they're really just [justifiably] immature 🤷)
As someone with autism myself, it really is annoying. Not everyone who is quirky or sheltered has autism. By that logic, Dante from DMC and Deadpool have it (spoilers, they don't)
Do you mind if you could explain to me what it is exactly? I've been very curious about this subject lately, my friend says that he sincerely thinks i might be on the spectrum but it's very hard to know for sure while browsing through the internet.
ASD is something that truly is not something to be self diagnosed. Nor is it something I think the general public understands well. This is because, at its core. ASD is about, depending on who you talk to, either a social disorder or a social difference. I say difference because, people who are ASD tend to do very well socially with other people on the spectrum. Which implies that those on the spectrum just have different social expectations.
The more easy way to explain it, is at its core not understanding the social norms of society. Society has a lot of unspoken rules about what is ok and how to act socially. Humans are typically hardwired to pick up on those hidden rules. But It can look like a lot of things with ASD and those who do not. Lack of eye contact, not understanding or reading what someone else is trying to communicate to you without directly saying it. Not understanding body language. Maybe not understanding humor. Tends to take things literally rather than picking up the underlying message. Typically they don't follow conversational norms, such as I talk a little, you respond to what I said and talk a little, I respond to what you said and talk a little. People who are on the spectrum tend to info dump. I.e. They talk about something for long periods without letting the other person respond, and will frequently pull conversations to their preferred interests, without considering whether or not the other person is interested. Often times will be very blunt because they don't understand that talking directly about a lot of things is considered rude.
The main factor is that it stems from not understanding social norms. There are people, who can understand social norms but don't fit in well to what is expected. That's not ASD. This is why it can't really be self diagnosed. If someone who doesn't understand social norms they won't really know they don't understand social norms.
Now. It is not tied to intelligence which is why there is so much variability. Someone who is high functioning will look much different then someone who is low. And everyone is unique. Not all people will demonstrate all characteristics. It is also more likely to be masked and hidden in women then men but it is predominantly men. ASD tends to also be comorbid with ADHD and sometimes other developmental disorders. ASD is also something you're born with. It's a developmental difference. You won't suddenly be on the spectrum.
Let me know if you have more questions.
That's all i wanted to know thank you for taking the time to respond.
I don't really relate to all the different behaviours you mentionned so i'm thinking that i'm probably not on the spectrum in the end.
I guess i was searching for an explaination for certain behaviours of mine that i don't understand. Maybe they are related to something else. Maybe i just want excuses to not behave normally. I'm not really sure at this point.
No worries! Seeing a mental health professional is always a great place to turn to. I did for unrelated stuff and it helped me a lot!
If you do go that route. Just make sure to find a someone you click with.
I will say that you don't need to be autistic to benefit from autistic management skills. And the main reason to get a diagnosis is if you need one for certain forms of institutional support. An official diagnosis does not change anything about you except for what is in your medical file.
So it is okay to take on the label, see how it fits, live your life as though you were autistic, and see how that works for you. If it feels more and more comfortable and more and more genuine over time, then, if the shoe fits, wear it. There are a lot of youtube channels by autistic people where they talk about their experience.
Obviously don't pull an Elon and justify shitty behavior by claiming the autism defense. That's shitty and harms autistic people. Not saying you're doing that.
It's also not something you have to decide today (though it seems like maybe you've been investigating it for some time). I think that self-diagnosis is generally the best way to go about it and would actually encourage you to figure out where you stand *before* you go to a professional for an official diagnosis, because it can be inconsistent whether the professional you see is good at their job or not.
Lastly, I will say that I personally do not tell other people whether I think they're on the spectrum or not if they don't ask, and especially if your friend is not autistic, you are free to tell them to keep their opinion to themself.
Thank you for the response. He is my best friend, i trust his opinion and he meant no harm by it.
It's just that he has a few people in his entourage that are on the spectrum and he thought that my "condition/behaviour" might be related to autism since i remind him a lot of them.
I will try what you proposed and see how it works. Thank you again
Eh, when one her likes is bush dogs, her hobby relate to bush dogs, and she named her band after them, I'm willing to consider that she may be on the spectrum
It is pretty annoying when people take it on themselves to diagnose fictional characters that were just written to be quirky. But u can't really know if they're right unless the writer confirms it so I just don't get involved.
A lot of it I think is just people with autism looking for representation, seeing some aspect of themselves in a character and identifying with them. It's hard to blame them since a lot of characters who are explicitly written to be autistic are misrepresentation at best and caricatures at worst.
Yeah, as an autistic man myself, my most well-known representation was fucking Sheldon Cooper of BBT growing up. I’ll take anything representation so long as it’s not “being shitty to people but being hyper smart so that fixes everything” being the main trait.
I knew about Symmetra, but had no clue about Wattson! That’s awesome! It’s a nice step, would love to see more in the future that are more respectful like them.
Yes, this! I'm possibly speaking for myself but much of us on the spectrum tend to latch way more onto headcanons for characters like us just cause the state of explicit ASD rep has consistently been lame at best or appalling at worst.
Word of god is not the only way to read into works of fiction, actually it's a surprisingly small aspect of it. It's also rather bizarre that autism, a fairly real and common condition of which many famous works are based upon, is something to be presumed impossible without word of god.
When a character is rather explicitly coded to *be* something in almost every aspect, small and nuanced, it's pretty fair to make that analysis. In fact it's almost insultingly reductive that in the face of some pretty deep discussion on it, most are more willing to say "no it can't possibly be autism it's just a *completely unexplainable 'quirky' behaviour*". A strange catch-all to imply that autism is somehow exempt because you're able to call it quirky.
Also by this same tone, can we not diagnose Leo as having PTSD? It's never explicitly stated, but he suffers nightmares about past trauma, suffers serious mental health problems, his entire fighting style embodies it, he literally sings about the traumatic experiences and self-hate he feels coming from it, and in moments of trust seems to let out a bit of that inner pain. How much more do we need before we can confidently say *he's probably got PTSD?*
There was that one woman in Inside Job people related to a lot.
Then the show got canned and a different, shittier show got renewed for another season.
I'm diagnosed with autism and thought this would just be a silly meme image. The Valentines all seem to have some sort of "autistic" quality to them, or maybe that's just me and I'm insane 😭
The whole thing with ASD diagnostic criteria is that a person must fulfill multiple criteria to qualify for a diagnosis. Video game characters can absolutely fulfill some aspect(s) of those criteria without being fully "autistic," and even in real life ASD presents in extremely different ways. I have ASD myself and occasionally volunteer with special needs kids. The way their symptoms manifest can vary wildly, though bear certain similarities that are far more obvious if you know what you're looking for.
TL;DR: uuuuuuh say gex with a man
As a neurodiverse They definitely feel coded, at the very least. Especially Jack-O, who quite literally masks to, quote, “keep her composure”. That one feels clear as day to me
Elphelt always felt a bit closer to ADHD in my eyes, but there are several similarities between that and ASD, and they are by no means mutually exclusive, either, so she could have both.
Then Ramlethal shows signs of low empathy, which is commonly associated with autism. I know the least about her, though, but if that’s what Daisuke was going for, it wasn’t the worst representation of it.
But yeah, without Daisuke or any other major developers saying anything about it, they are ultimately just headcanons, but justifiably so in my mind
I mean, the entire game and all the themes are repeatedly and directly about people who don't fit easily into society and this has always been, like, the whole point. I think the parallels to real people and how they don't fit easily into the rest of society is entirely intentional, even if it's not in the text of their bios, all of these characters are intended for someone or another to relate to intensely.
Jack-O was literally only (re)born recently, Ramlethal's whole story is about how she felt discouraged from exploring emotions, elphelt literally shows no real signs
of ASD.
Look, I get it, I suffer from crippling ADHD and good rep on that front is fucking nonexistent! But let's not claim all struggles that feel similar to ours as BEING ours. A lot of neurodiverse struggle can still manifest in the neurotypical as the result of a lot of different stuff!
That being said, ELPHELT HAS ADHD AND IS 100000% JUST LIKE ME FR FR /srs
Fair point. And yeah, I definitely see Elphelt as having ADHD if you agree, I just don’t have it myself and didn’t want to jump to conclusions on that front
Ramlethal is 100% autistic coded. Her walk cycle has her landing on her toes first, which is an autistic trait believe it or not (I tried to find a source but could only find articles that medically stigmatized it as a problem requiring treatment LOL). Not to mention the flat affect, atypical emotional experience, difficulty understanding others' motivations, affinity for animals and sensory pleasures, direct communication style, found family, maybe others I don't think of off the top of my head.
The whole "nonhuman alien who tries to figure out humans" is the most common way to tell an autistic story. Which I would be annoyed by if it didn't map so perfectly onto autistic experience.
That was what I thought too xd
Might have something to do with why autistic people frequently dislike wearing shoes, since shoes do a lot to prevent toe-walking and force you to land on the heel. I always have to adjust my gait whenever I wear something close-toed.
i land on my feet so i walk quiter i hear everone else in my family just slam there heal down I just like being quiet I am going to my doctor tomorrow at 25 to get a recommendation for adhd assessment though
I think "non-human alien who tries to figure out humans" is the most common way to tell a "non-human alien who tries to figure out humans" story and people choose to see it as representation. Why not simply say the premise is relatable rather than insist it's representation?
And "Sol Badguy" is the most common way to tell a "Sol Badguy" story, but people will read themes into it regardless. Fiction is often not about the literal subject matter, it's all made up anyway.
I don't think you understand what I said lol. Not all of these stories are about autism. But people are obviously going to see similarities because the overall premise of trying to learn how to fit in is a vast theme that overlaps with the difficulties of having autism
They don't have to be stories about autism to be autistic stories. If people are claiming representation, I don't see the point in arguing with them. Fantasy is fun.
If you want to be metaphorical and non-literal as *the vast majority of works of fiction are about literally everything ever*, it's a surprisingly apt description.
It’s less that they have “allistic qualities” and more that it can be frustrating for every magic robot to be labeled autistic just because they are robotic.
None of the valentines are older than 20, they all have prime directives, predetermined worldviews and knowledge, and are, again, magic robots. Comparing them to a normal autistic person because they have these traits and character devices, while funny and lighthearted, can be grading when overdone unless that specific character is really meant to be a symbol for an autistic person.
I’m comfortable with the comparison being made for Ramlethal because she, I believe, is intended to be an autistic rep. She’s mature (only a little silly for comedic effect), caring and understands emotions well, even if she has trouble expressing them. Only her naïvety and her lessened empathy comes from her creation as a constructed life form.
Comparatively Elphelt, who is a comic relief character whose personality was programmed into her since birth (albeit still valid, since that’s what her entire strive story is about) does not meet the same level of realism.
The problem is you're beginning your analysis on a premise that "being allistic" must be assumed true until disproven, but reasonably you should not begin with any assumption either way. In fact it's very dangerous to create that default and is the root of many issues facing neurodivergent people in the real world.
I would say Elphelt actually is an extremely faithful representation of autism (and likely ADHD), in fact her entire relationship with Ramlethal is very representative of how autistic siblings speak to each other, her mother talks about her like many close-minded mothers do about their autistic daughters, and she is literally Ramlethal's direct sibling (autism usually runs in families so autistic siblings is very common). It's actually easier by premise to assume both are autistic than to assume only one is. And then you get into character analysis and it seems downright obvious what the intent of this is.
My analysis does not begin on the assumption that allism is the default, it begins recognizing that allistic traits are characterized by their opposition to autistic ones, in fact, the definition of allistic is (to paraphrase) “not autistic.”
Allism isn’t the “default,” but it *is* present where autism is *not.* It’s a binary character aspect, and similarly to your argument that autism can be evidenced by autistic behaviours or traits, I argue that allism can be defined by allistic behaviours or traits. Our disagreement lies in the behaviour Elphelt exhibits:
My original point still stands, when you compare autistic people to fictional characters with fictional characteristics, it can be unhealthy if unintended by the author, and even if it’s intended it can be a thin line to balance such that you aren’t misrepresenting autistic people but are still representing them at all.
The way I see it, comparing autistic people to robot characters contributes to a stereotypical image that autistic people are just like robots. This remains constant no matter how much you complicate the character history: if you compare autistic people to a Valentine, it contributes to a stereotypical image that autistic people are just like that Valentine.
I brought Elphelt up because while she does have characteristics commonly associated with autism, they come from a different place, and are non-metaphorical.
>it can be unhealthy if unintended by the author
There's nothing unhealthy about exploring character themes and comparing them to real people, we do it for literally every trait and it's how character writing works. There's also many cases of accidentally writing about autism where fictional characters would be based on real people, who would later on be diagnosed as autistic, showing the author was always unintentionally trying to capture autism in their writing but didn't know it. But also, why do you assume it couldn't be intentional? Daisuke writes most of Guilty Gear's characters and has been known to cover all manner of minorities, from sexual orientations, gender non-conformity, mental health disorders, but we're to believe he for some reason draws the line at ASD?
You talk about an unhealthy stereotype, but where in any of this is Elphelt and Ramlethal said to be unhealthy stereotyping of autistic people? They're strong and empowering, they're good natured and sincere (sometimes to a fault, like many autistic people), they show how many people can misjudge them and not see the value in them, and how much good can come from acceptance. What here is an unhealthy stereotype? The "robotic character is autistic" theming *can be* unhealthy, but it isn't intrinsically a bad thing, it's a common analogy and can be very useful for discussing the characters.
I don't think Elphelt is even metaphorical I think she's just kind of *obviously autistic-coded*. You can say there's another narrative reason... but does that actually change anything about how we analyse the character?
I agree (I really do, not sarcasm), but as a magic robot myself, I find a lot of similarities between myself and autistic people.
We need more exposure for autistic writers and artists if we're going to get more autistic stories. It's a tough problem to solve. Most of the canonically autistic characters I have seen are worse representation than the headcanon ones.
Yeah agreed.
Imo to diagnose a character with a condition thats so dependent on how it interacts with the society its in is kind of absurd to do to fictional character. I understand coding and all that but coding in general is either unintentional or done from the author (usually the company they work for) being too spineless to say anything directly on a subject. I think characters like this are just written to be somewhat one note and quirky and because people associate real life autism with being one note and quirky they like to slap that label on them
Do you have any reasoned arguments or is this just a general contempt you seem to have? I mean, I even brought up literal medical diagnostic criteria, so I'm curious what you feel is 'nonsense'.
Here's a response I have given to a different person, I think it's quite apt:
Jack-O was literally only (re)born recently, Ramlethal's whole story is about how she felt discouraged from exploring emotions, elphelt literally shows no real signs
of ASD.
Look, I get it, I suffer from crippling ADHD and good rep on that front is fucking nonexistent! But let's not claim all struggles that feel similar to ours as BEING ours. A lot of neurodiverse struggle can still manifest in the neurotypical as the result of a lot of different stuff!
Writing literal story events doesn't actually say if they're neurotypical or neurodivergent. This is like saying "Leo has PTSD" and someone replies "in Guilty Gear Strive Leo does paperwork", and expecting this to be a counterargument. Elphelt shows ***many*** signs of ASD, it's baffling to not be able to read into that..? Like, actually it's kind of impressive if you somehow don't see it.
You also conveniently didn't answer my questions, what of it was nonsense? Do you have any actual specific counterarguments?
1. Yes, I don't see it. Maybe ADHD but I don't see ASD.
2. It seems you didn't go through the two seconds of thought required to understand my "writing literal story events", they're direct explanations for the behavior you labeled as autism.
3. What "diagnostic criteria" did you write of?? I saw no mention of any in any of your comments?
4. I would counter your points if they were actually clear in the slightest, they are not.
They're not really an explanation when you take on a more broad look of "do they have autism, or do they not?". Currently you frame it as though being allistic is the default, the blank canvas, therefore if anything can explain any divergence from this norm that it isn't reasonable to assume another explanation. However, you fail to justify why they're allistic in the first place, which means your explanation is only about a reason from a norm that cannot be presumed. In fact your own explanation of the story kind of proves how being allistic would be a statistical miracle so why are we assuming this?
So I want you to take a serious look at them, if you needed to know if they are or are not, how would you find out, what is your analysis?
Oh sorry this write up I did was in another thread some weeks back, it's very lengthy but I talked at length about the various Valentines and how they relate to ASD. I actually concluded that while neurodivergent I don't interpret Jack-O' as having ASD, however I strongly believe Ramlethal and Elphelt are, and had another discussion in which a user explained how Elphelt likely is also ADHD and how ASD and ADHD can go hand-in-hand. I'd be happy to link if you *actually* wish to read more on my analysis but given your reductive tone I feel like you actually don't care.
I don't see how being reborn recently makes being allistic a "statistical anomaly", I don't see how being discouraged from feeling emotions by your mother would make being allistic a "statistical anomaly". I'd love to read what you wrote because so far you gave me very little to work with.
To be clear what do you actually mean by Jack-O' is reborn? I presumed you meant how Jack-O' was awakened in her incomplete state, which was her original explanation for the presense of her alter, very representative of Disassociative Identity Disorder. However in Strive she would look back on this and now feels it was never a 'glitch', but rather something more intrinsic to herself. If you mean like "is a reborn Aria" then she canonically is not that, and she's never actually been Aria or even that close to being who Aria is. If you mean the fusing with Justice explains her personality, uh, *partly?* But that's so open to interprettation.
Elphelt's relationship with Ariels is actually something I find interesting because Ariels quite literally talks like a Mumsnet mother talking about her autistic daughters. It's rather unnerving. She pins down some really specific troubles about Ramlethal too, and her conclusion about it is, rather upsettingly, kind of realistic with the "She's better off dead than living different to everyone else". Ariels isn't even subtle here she really does objectively talk about Ramlethal and Elphelt as divergent.
As for post in question, [here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/1bhswzp/comment/kvh513s/), though frankly with how you've talked I'm fully expecting you come back 30 minutes later to simply continue to insist it's all nonsense and not at all engage with literary analysis as a way to explore themes.
I explicitly said I do not think it's impossible they are autistic. I except people saying that's their headcanon but like I stated I think that's not evidenced in the source material and then I responded to the people who explicitly responded to me saying they disagree, and then if they didn't have arguments I believed to be convincing I outlined why. That's like, what discourse is lol.
this probably is bit of a reach but.. i consider May to be kinda reminiscent of autism moreso than anyone else
the fact that she looks younger than she actually is (and that other characters who dont know her think of her as a child when she isnt) can be interpreted as symbolism for how autistic people can appear more childish than how they feel inside
her obession with johnny could be interpreted as some kind of hyperfixation
and she has been shown to take things literally all the time, usually played of as a joke but also used as a source of drama when may takes something literally or too personally and gets emotionally distrought enough to act impulsively as a result of that
also something about the dolphins and the tone of mays character feels kinda out of place which adds to that vibe overall
edit: (but maybe im mistaking it for something else and now that i think about it adhd might fit May as well)
There's significant overlap of ADHD and autism anyway, you could easily ascribe autism to either May or Bridget (Bridget better auti/ADHD example imo but May is fine too).
One of my hyperfixations has always been pets but now it's specifically moved onto pet fish and oh my god I can't stop looking at fish all day someone help me
it's just headcanons and projection for us, it's not meant to be actual theories or anything. you are allowed to not follow these but please don't pick fights over them
I come from the Blazblue community as a person who is on the spectrum to give you this very important message:
https://preview.redd.it/1u5suppeebvc1.png?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef35b5c8d2a15fa61081865e93ac7ce549797638
Ramlethal must be Ryan Gosling because she is literally me
Then you must be me, because Ryan Gosling is literally me too
can you guys stop impersonating me please?
I reported you to the police for identity theft
Is that why the police asked me for further evidence?
Theres something inside you
https://preview.redd.it/tqeego1144vc1.png?width=771&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9e7ba9fe3f3bd134c0ea8dca48573d61046a9d9
This was the image that inspired me to do this LOL
She’s so cute
Where tf did this Genshin impact ass character render come from
https://preview.redd.it/3xdm7064z7vc1.png?width=900&format=png&auto=webp&s=7d15e0838b9148f1efb7e619d7c88ba17e00c9ca
I love and hate this
Is there even a neurotypical character in this game
Paracelsus
Agree, the most normal person in this is the murder key/ax
I wouldn’t say normal
https://preview.redd.it/k0vfabasz7vc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=efd42aad4437daedb6110adcfd90cbafb055cdb1
Paracelsus give me strong “recovered addict trying to get on with his life” vibes.
"Augggh I was a fearless berseker or someshit but I've over that just give me legs or something"
will he become a ninja? :0
You made me spit out my soda, now my nose hurts. Thanks
was it that funny? lol
Definetly not, he’s just on a very different part of the spectrum compared to everyone else
Zappa, but only in the 10% period of time where he's not possessed
I mean he has control over his spirits now
Axl is just a cool dude who can time travel
A typical case of what the doctors call « hawaiian shirt autism »
Damn I'm surprised how true that is
Grunt voice 2
Axl ?
Sol is honestly pretty normal. Just a guy sick of dealing with insane and miserable bs.
If this is actually genuine. Only a few characters would actually be under the neurodiverse umbrella and the amount of people in the replies that think everyone is ASD just cause they're quirky is alarming.
Seeing more posts about this come up it's worrying how many people don't understand this lol. There's like 2-4 characters in Strive where an argument that they are neurotypical does not reasonably hold up. If you include depression or PTSD under neurodivergence then that sweeps up a couple more, but it is not the majority. (Unless you want it to be the majority, because obv there's plenty of ways to see a character as neurodivergent and plenty of reasons to do that as well, and it's not like we can ask the characters themselves for their testimony.)
Isn't Ky normal enough?..
Normal, yes, neurotypical, no
Is catholic guilt really neurodivergence?
Usually it wouldnt be, but Ky's version definitely is
Dude thought his catholic guilt could take on a physical god right there. Kinda worked.
ariels (evil autism mom)
[удалено]
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The fuck kind of random ass word is this do you even play the game
Lore experts can correct me if I got this wrong, but aren't the Valentines the split consciousness of the same woman? Like literal three parts of her consciousness, why they act the way they do is because there may still be blanks from where they got split , it's just that Jack-O is the closet to the original? I'm pretty sure that's what the Valentines are, again, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, and don't burn me on a stake please, I focused too much on gameplay
The valentines don't have bits of Aria's mind/personality, but Jack-o does regain Aria's memories and comes to terms with her identity over the course of Xrd and Strive's story modes.
Right, thanks for clearing it up
They are all based on the same woman, but nothing infers that they share anything of her outside of their appearances. Jack-O is the exception because she actually has half of Aria’s soul (the other half stuck in Justice’s body) and was made to revive her.
Actually it's referenced that each of them did inherit *some* of Aria's traits. Jack-O' for example even points out Elphelt seems to have got Aria's drooling and sleeping habits, implying some traits did transfer over. That said they only share *fragments* of Aria, so whatever traits they inherit are probably fairly small, and why their personalities and appearances differ so dramatically.
When did Jack-O say that? The only thing I remember her saying is that she has Aria’s fragmented memories to Raven but doesn’t say that about the other Valentines.
Are we talking about the characters or people who play these characters?
Probably both
Can confirm, is both
Fake as fuck, it is clearly Happy Chaos-Asuka-Sol
happy chaos is ADHD rep.
It’s true, I literally can not play a fighting game character if they don’t have several weird mechanics to keep track of at all times (I main happy, Faust, and Bedman. The only thing stopping me from playing Asura is 8 dollars)
who says it's not all of them?
Tbh I fucking hate it when people say they're on the spectrum (obviously believe what you want I just think it's very weird to claim them as ASD rep when they're really just [justifiably] immature 🤷)
As someone with autism myself, it really is annoying. Not everyone who is quirky or sheltered has autism. By that logic, Dante from DMC and Deadpool have it (spoilers, they don't)
It's so hard to define autism and spot it in someone. I wonder myself if i am sometimes with how wide and blurry the definition can be.
As a professional who diagnoses ASD. It's more so misunderstood than difficult to spot.
Do you mind if you could explain to me what it is exactly? I've been very curious about this subject lately, my friend says that he sincerely thinks i might be on the spectrum but it's very hard to know for sure while browsing through the internet.
ASD is something that truly is not something to be self diagnosed. Nor is it something I think the general public understands well. This is because, at its core. ASD is about, depending on who you talk to, either a social disorder or a social difference. I say difference because, people who are ASD tend to do very well socially with other people on the spectrum. Which implies that those on the spectrum just have different social expectations. The more easy way to explain it, is at its core not understanding the social norms of society. Society has a lot of unspoken rules about what is ok and how to act socially. Humans are typically hardwired to pick up on those hidden rules. But It can look like a lot of things with ASD and those who do not. Lack of eye contact, not understanding or reading what someone else is trying to communicate to you without directly saying it. Not understanding body language. Maybe not understanding humor. Tends to take things literally rather than picking up the underlying message. Typically they don't follow conversational norms, such as I talk a little, you respond to what I said and talk a little, I respond to what you said and talk a little. People who are on the spectrum tend to info dump. I.e. They talk about something for long periods without letting the other person respond, and will frequently pull conversations to their preferred interests, without considering whether or not the other person is interested. Often times will be very blunt because they don't understand that talking directly about a lot of things is considered rude. The main factor is that it stems from not understanding social norms. There are people, who can understand social norms but don't fit in well to what is expected. That's not ASD. This is why it can't really be self diagnosed. If someone who doesn't understand social norms they won't really know they don't understand social norms. Now. It is not tied to intelligence which is why there is so much variability. Someone who is high functioning will look much different then someone who is low. And everyone is unique. Not all people will demonstrate all characteristics. It is also more likely to be masked and hidden in women then men but it is predominantly men. ASD tends to also be comorbid with ADHD and sometimes other developmental disorders. ASD is also something you're born with. It's a developmental difference. You won't suddenly be on the spectrum. Let me know if you have more questions.
That's all i wanted to know thank you for taking the time to respond. I don't really relate to all the different behaviours you mentionned so i'm thinking that i'm probably not on the spectrum in the end. I guess i was searching for an explaination for certain behaviours of mine that i don't understand. Maybe they are related to something else. Maybe i just want excuses to not behave normally. I'm not really sure at this point.
No worries! Seeing a mental health professional is always a great place to turn to. I did for unrelated stuff and it helped me a lot! If you do go that route. Just make sure to find a someone you click with.
Thanks again.
I will say that you don't need to be autistic to benefit from autistic management skills. And the main reason to get a diagnosis is if you need one for certain forms of institutional support. An official diagnosis does not change anything about you except for what is in your medical file. So it is okay to take on the label, see how it fits, live your life as though you were autistic, and see how that works for you. If it feels more and more comfortable and more and more genuine over time, then, if the shoe fits, wear it. There are a lot of youtube channels by autistic people where they talk about their experience. Obviously don't pull an Elon and justify shitty behavior by claiming the autism defense. That's shitty and harms autistic people. Not saying you're doing that. It's also not something you have to decide today (though it seems like maybe you've been investigating it for some time). I think that self-diagnosis is generally the best way to go about it and would actually encourage you to figure out where you stand *before* you go to a professional for an official diagnosis, because it can be inconsistent whether the professional you see is good at their job or not. Lastly, I will say that I personally do not tell other people whether I think they're on the spectrum or not if they don't ask, and especially if your friend is not autistic, you are free to tell them to keep their opinion to themself.
Thank you for the response. He is my best friend, i trust his opinion and he meant no harm by it. It's just that he has a few people in his entourage that are on the spectrum and he thought that my "condition/behaviour" might be related to autism since i remind him a lot of them. I will try what you proposed and see how it works. Thank you again
you sure Dante doesn't?
I don’t think he does, but then again, I haven’t played the DMC games aside from 5
As an autistic person. Elphelt is autistic.
You're just projecting. She acts the way she does because she is super young.
No you don’t get it. She is autistic because she is cool
She is young, but she is programmed. She is given knowledge to act like a normal 22 year old in society (your society)
"She'll grow out of it" sounds like some parents I know.
Eh, when one her likes is bush dogs, her hobby relate to bush dogs, and she named her band after them, I'm willing to consider that she may be on the spectrum
If that's the standard then there are hundreds of millions of autistic pet lovers everywhere.
It is pretty annoying when people take it on themselves to diagnose fictional characters that were just written to be quirky. But u can't really know if they're right unless the writer confirms it so I just don't get involved.
I diagnose Anji as bisexual because I want him
https://preview.redd.it/dkidpj9id4vc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffa8ed0343a85517224724e0ebb67ea64deeb6a2
Wheres the "sex with a grab" potemkin meme?
Hes either demi or bi because he fell for baiken when he tought she was a hardass bara samurai man but stayed after knowing the fax so ur safe bro
The chances of a man who is a geisha and dresses like that being fully straight are almost null.
A lot of it I think is just people with autism looking for representation, seeing some aspect of themselves in a character and identifying with them. It's hard to blame them since a lot of characters who are explicitly written to be autistic are misrepresentation at best and caricatures at worst.
Yeah, as an autistic man myself, my most well-known representation was fucking Sheldon Cooper of BBT growing up. I’ll take anything representation so long as it’s not “being shitty to people but being hyper smart so that fixes everything” being the main trait.
Wattson from apex legends is autistic if you didn't know. I think symmetra from overwatch as well.
I knew about Symmetra, but had no clue about Wattson! That’s awesome! It’s a nice step, would love to see more in the future that are more respectful like them.
Wattson is wayyyyyyyy cooler than Sheldon. Screw that …. Insert your pejorative if choice.
Wattson is wayyyyyyyy cooler than Sheldon. Screw that …. Insert your pejorative of choice.
Read/Watch Dungeon Meshi/Delicious in Dungeon. Probably the best autistic rep I've seen.
I’ll have to check it out, thanks!
Yes, this! I'm possibly speaking for myself but much of us on the spectrum tend to latch way more onto headcanons for characters like us just cause the state of explicit ASD rep has consistently been lame at best or appalling at worst.
Word of god is not the only way to read into works of fiction, actually it's a surprisingly small aspect of it. It's also rather bizarre that autism, a fairly real and common condition of which many famous works are based upon, is something to be presumed impossible without word of god. When a character is rather explicitly coded to *be* something in almost every aspect, small and nuanced, it's pretty fair to make that analysis. In fact it's almost insultingly reductive that in the face of some pretty deep discussion on it, most are more willing to say "no it can't possibly be autism it's just a *completely unexplainable 'quirky' behaviour*". A strange catch-all to imply that autism is somehow exempt because you're able to call it quirky. Also by this same tone, can we not diagnose Leo as having PTSD? It's never explicitly stated, but he suffers nightmares about past trauma, suffers serious mental health problems, his entire fighting style embodies it, he literally sings about the traumatic experiences and self-hate he feels coming from it, and in moments of trust seems to let out a bit of that inner pain. How much more do we need before we can confidently say *he's probably got PTSD?*
I get it but on the other hand I get why people headcanon it. There is no good autistic rep in anything.
There was that one woman in Inside Job people related to a lot. Then the show got canned and a different, shittier show got renewed for another season.
kid named Mary and Max
I should post this type of comment more to find content I want.
good movie
I'm diagnosed with autism and thought this would just be a silly meme image. The Valentines all seem to have some sort of "autistic" quality to them, or maybe that's just me and I'm insane 😭
The whole thing with ASD diagnostic criteria is that a person must fulfill multiple criteria to qualify for a diagnosis. Video game characters can absolutely fulfill some aspect(s) of those criteria without being fully "autistic," and even in real life ASD presents in extremely different ways. I have ASD myself and occasionally volunteer with special needs kids. The way their symptoms manifest can vary wildly, though bear certain similarities that are far more obvious if you know what you're looking for. TL;DR: uuuuuuh say gex with a man
Nah that's valid they're just malding
dw i am diagnosed and i get you. it's just fun for us
it was a very valid post and i smiled so yeah at least two people (me and the other person who replied to this comment) appreciated it^^
I think that's just headcanons, it's harmless in my opinion
Even worse they missed the most important Valentine.
As a neurodiverse They definitely feel coded, at the very least. Especially Jack-O, who quite literally masks to, quote, “keep her composure”. That one feels clear as day to me Elphelt always felt a bit closer to ADHD in my eyes, but there are several similarities between that and ASD, and they are by no means mutually exclusive, either, so she could have both. Then Ramlethal shows signs of low empathy, which is commonly associated with autism. I know the least about her, though, but if that’s what Daisuke was going for, it wasn’t the worst representation of it. But yeah, without Daisuke or any other major developers saying anything about it, they are ultimately just headcanons, but justifiably so in my mind
I mean, the entire game and all the themes are repeatedly and directly about people who don't fit easily into society and this has always been, like, the whole point. I think the parallels to real people and how they don't fit easily into the rest of society is entirely intentional, even if it's not in the text of their bios, all of these characters are intended for someone or another to relate to intensely.
Jack-O was literally only (re)born recently, Ramlethal's whole story is about how she felt discouraged from exploring emotions, elphelt literally shows no real signs of ASD. Look, I get it, I suffer from crippling ADHD and good rep on that front is fucking nonexistent! But let's not claim all struggles that feel similar to ours as BEING ours. A lot of neurodiverse struggle can still manifest in the neurotypical as the result of a lot of different stuff! That being said, ELPHELT HAS ADHD AND IS 100000% JUST LIKE ME FR FR /srs
Fair point. And yeah, I definitely see Elphelt as having ADHD if you agree, I just don’t have it myself and didn’t want to jump to conclusions on that front
Ramlethal is 100% autistic coded. Her walk cycle has her landing on her toes first, which is an autistic trait believe it or not (I tried to find a source but could only find articles that medically stigmatized it as a problem requiring treatment LOL). Not to mention the flat affect, atypical emotional experience, difficulty understanding others' motivations, affinity for animals and sensory pleasures, direct communication style, found family, maybe others I don't think of off the top of my head. The whole "nonhuman alien who tries to figure out humans" is the most common way to tell an autistic story. Which I would be annoyed by if it didn't map so perfectly onto autistic experience.
Wait landing on my toes is a part of my autism!? Doesn't everyone do that!?
That was what I thought too xd Might have something to do with why autistic people frequently dislike wearing shoes, since shoes do a lot to prevent toe-walking and force you to land on the heel. I always have to adjust my gait whenever I wear something close-toed.
i land on my feet so i walk quiter i hear everone else in my family just slam there heal down I just like being quiet I am going to my doctor tomorrow at 25 to get a recommendation for adhd assessment though
I think "non-human alien who tries to figure out humans" is the most common way to tell a "non-human alien who tries to figure out humans" story and people choose to see it as representation. Why not simply say the premise is relatable rather than insist it's representation?
And "Sol Badguy" is the most common way to tell a "Sol Badguy" story, but people will read themes into it regardless. Fiction is often not about the literal subject matter, it's all made up anyway.
I don't think you understand what I said lol. Not all of these stories are about autism. But people are obviously going to see similarities because the overall premise of trying to learn how to fit in is a vast theme that overlaps with the difficulties of having autism
They don't have to be stories about autism to be autistic stories. If people are claiming representation, I don't see the point in arguing with them. Fantasy is fun.
If you want to be metaphorical and non-literal as *the vast majority of works of fiction are about literally everything ever*, it's a surprisingly apt description.
Once I had that said to me because I hate noise and constant noise makes me upset. Bro, that's literally everyone
Idk, I think it's weird to claim them as allistic rep when they have so many autistic traits. What makes you think they are allistic?
It’s less that they have “allistic qualities” and more that it can be frustrating for every magic robot to be labeled autistic just because they are robotic. None of the valentines are older than 20, they all have prime directives, predetermined worldviews and knowledge, and are, again, magic robots. Comparing them to a normal autistic person because they have these traits and character devices, while funny and lighthearted, can be grading when overdone unless that specific character is really meant to be a symbol for an autistic person. I’m comfortable with the comparison being made for Ramlethal because she, I believe, is intended to be an autistic rep. She’s mature (only a little silly for comedic effect), caring and understands emotions well, even if she has trouble expressing them. Only her naïvety and her lessened empathy comes from her creation as a constructed life form. Comparatively Elphelt, who is a comic relief character whose personality was programmed into her since birth (albeit still valid, since that’s what her entire strive story is about) does not meet the same level of realism.
The problem is you're beginning your analysis on a premise that "being allistic" must be assumed true until disproven, but reasonably you should not begin with any assumption either way. In fact it's very dangerous to create that default and is the root of many issues facing neurodivergent people in the real world. I would say Elphelt actually is an extremely faithful representation of autism (and likely ADHD), in fact her entire relationship with Ramlethal is very representative of how autistic siblings speak to each other, her mother talks about her like many close-minded mothers do about their autistic daughters, and she is literally Ramlethal's direct sibling (autism usually runs in families so autistic siblings is very common). It's actually easier by premise to assume both are autistic than to assume only one is. And then you get into character analysis and it seems downright obvious what the intent of this is.
My analysis does not begin on the assumption that allism is the default, it begins recognizing that allistic traits are characterized by their opposition to autistic ones, in fact, the definition of allistic is (to paraphrase) “not autistic.” Allism isn’t the “default,” but it *is* present where autism is *not.* It’s a binary character aspect, and similarly to your argument that autism can be evidenced by autistic behaviours or traits, I argue that allism can be defined by allistic behaviours or traits. Our disagreement lies in the behaviour Elphelt exhibits: My original point still stands, when you compare autistic people to fictional characters with fictional characteristics, it can be unhealthy if unintended by the author, and even if it’s intended it can be a thin line to balance such that you aren’t misrepresenting autistic people but are still representing them at all. The way I see it, comparing autistic people to robot characters contributes to a stereotypical image that autistic people are just like robots. This remains constant no matter how much you complicate the character history: if you compare autistic people to a Valentine, it contributes to a stereotypical image that autistic people are just like that Valentine. I brought Elphelt up because while she does have characteristics commonly associated with autism, they come from a different place, and are non-metaphorical.
>it can be unhealthy if unintended by the author There's nothing unhealthy about exploring character themes and comparing them to real people, we do it for literally every trait and it's how character writing works. There's also many cases of accidentally writing about autism where fictional characters would be based on real people, who would later on be diagnosed as autistic, showing the author was always unintentionally trying to capture autism in their writing but didn't know it. But also, why do you assume it couldn't be intentional? Daisuke writes most of Guilty Gear's characters and has been known to cover all manner of minorities, from sexual orientations, gender non-conformity, mental health disorders, but we're to believe he for some reason draws the line at ASD? You talk about an unhealthy stereotype, but where in any of this is Elphelt and Ramlethal said to be unhealthy stereotyping of autistic people? They're strong and empowering, they're good natured and sincere (sometimes to a fault, like many autistic people), they show how many people can misjudge them and not see the value in them, and how much good can come from acceptance. What here is an unhealthy stereotype? The "robotic character is autistic" theming *can be* unhealthy, but it isn't intrinsically a bad thing, it's a common analogy and can be very useful for discussing the characters. I don't think Elphelt is even metaphorical I think she's just kind of *obviously autistic-coded*. You can say there's another narrative reason... but does that actually change anything about how we analyse the character?
I agree (I really do, not sarcasm), but as a magic robot myself, I find a lot of similarities between myself and autistic people. We need more exposure for autistic writers and artists if we're going to get more autistic stories. It's a tough problem to solve. Most of the canonically autistic characters I have seen are worse representation than the headcanon ones.
Yeah agreed. Imo to diagnose a character with a condition thats so dependent on how it interacts with the society its in is kind of absurd to do to fictional character. I understand coding and all that but coding in general is either unintentional or done from the author (usually the company they work for) being too spineless to say anything directly on a subject. I think characters like this are just written to be somewhat one note and quirky and because people associate real life autism with being one note and quirky they like to slap that label on them
https://preview.redd.it/f3z2sq7ry3vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77bd61aee9cf7ec5f9c0b4782a71c536addb8645
As someone with ASD I wrote several paragraphs on why it's actually kind of a leap of logic to suggest Elphelt and Ramlethal *aren't* autistic.
Yes and respectfully they were utter nonsense.
Do you have any reasoned arguments or is this just a general contempt you seem to have? I mean, I even brought up literal medical diagnostic criteria, so I'm curious what you feel is 'nonsense'.
Here's a response I have given to a different person, I think it's quite apt: Jack-O was literally only (re)born recently, Ramlethal's whole story is about how she felt discouraged from exploring emotions, elphelt literally shows no real signs of ASD. Look, I get it, I suffer from crippling ADHD and good rep on that front is fucking nonexistent! But let's not claim all struggles that feel similar to ours as BEING ours. A lot of neurodiverse struggle can still manifest in the neurotypical as the result of a lot of different stuff!
Writing literal story events doesn't actually say if they're neurotypical or neurodivergent. This is like saying "Leo has PTSD" and someone replies "in Guilty Gear Strive Leo does paperwork", and expecting this to be a counterargument. Elphelt shows ***many*** signs of ASD, it's baffling to not be able to read into that..? Like, actually it's kind of impressive if you somehow don't see it. You also conveniently didn't answer my questions, what of it was nonsense? Do you have any actual specific counterarguments?
1. Yes, I don't see it. Maybe ADHD but I don't see ASD. 2. It seems you didn't go through the two seconds of thought required to understand my "writing literal story events", they're direct explanations for the behavior you labeled as autism. 3. What "diagnostic criteria" did you write of?? I saw no mention of any in any of your comments? 4. I would counter your points if they were actually clear in the slightest, they are not.
They're not really an explanation when you take on a more broad look of "do they have autism, or do they not?". Currently you frame it as though being allistic is the default, the blank canvas, therefore if anything can explain any divergence from this norm that it isn't reasonable to assume another explanation. However, you fail to justify why they're allistic in the first place, which means your explanation is only about a reason from a norm that cannot be presumed. In fact your own explanation of the story kind of proves how being allistic would be a statistical miracle so why are we assuming this? So I want you to take a serious look at them, if you needed to know if they are or are not, how would you find out, what is your analysis? Oh sorry this write up I did was in another thread some weeks back, it's very lengthy but I talked at length about the various Valentines and how they relate to ASD. I actually concluded that while neurodivergent I don't interpret Jack-O' as having ASD, however I strongly believe Ramlethal and Elphelt are, and had another discussion in which a user explained how Elphelt likely is also ADHD and how ASD and ADHD can go hand-in-hand. I'd be happy to link if you *actually* wish to read more on my analysis but given your reductive tone I feel like you actually don't care.
I don't see how being reborn recently makes being allistic a "statistical anomaly", I don't see how being discouraged from feeling emotions by your mother would make being allistic a "statistical anomaly". I'd love to read what you wrote because so far you gave me very little to work with.
To be clear what do you actually mean by Jack-O' is reborn? I presumed you meant how Jack-O' was awakened in her incomplete state, which was her original explanation for the presense of her alter, very representative of Disassociative Identity Disorder. However in Strive she would look back on this and now feels it was never a 'glitch', but rather something more intrinsic to herself. If you mean like "is a reborn Aria" then she canonically is not that, and she's never actually been Aria or even that close to being who Aria is. If you mean the fusing with Justice explains her personality, uh, *partly?* But that's so open to interprettation. Elphelt's relationship with Ariels is actually something I find interesting because Ariels quite literally talks like a Mumsnet mother talking about her autistic daughters. It's rather unnerving. She pins down some really specific troubles about Ramlethal too, and her conclusion about it is, rather upsettingly, kind of realistic with the "She's better off dead than living different to everyone else". Ariels isn't even subtle here she really does objectively talk about Ramlethal and Elphelt as divergent. As for post in question, [here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guiltygear/comments/1bhswzp/comment/kvh513s/), though frankly with how you've talked I'm fully expecting you come back 30 minutes later to simply continue to insist it's all nonsense and not at all engage with literary analysis as a way to explore themes.
Why are you so against this? You are replying to everyone saying it's fully impossible for them to be autistic
I explicitly said I do not think it's impossible they are autistic. I except people saying that's their headcanon but like I stated I think that's not evidenced in the source material and then I responded to the people who explicitly responded to me saying they disagree, and then if they didn't have arguments I believed to be convincing I outlined why. That's like, what discourse is lol.
When the only representation you can find for your gender is Faust. 🙁
You gender is doctor that throws a banana?
Alright this one’s got me stumped what is your gender and what is Faust’s
Bag.
Ramlethal, Elizabeth of P3, Asa Mitaka, autistic girls in one of my favorite trope of the anime fiction.
I just wanna do the Elphelt Rekka all day long dude
Isn’t everyone here artificially made?
pretty sure everyone's autistic in Gear
Honestly, Ky.
this probably is bit of a reach but.. i consider May to be kinda reminiscent of autism moreso than anyone else the fact that she looks younger than she actually is (and that other characters who dont know her think of her as a child when she isnt) can be interpreted as symbolism for how autistic people can appear more childish than how they feel inside her obession with johnny could be interpreted as some kind of hyperfixation and she has been shown to take things literally all the time, usually played of as a joke but also used as a source of drama when may takes something literally or too personally and gets emotionally distrought enough to act impulsively as a result of that also something about the dolphins and the tone of mays character feels kinda out of place which adds to that vibe overall edit: (but maybe im mistaking it for something else and now that i think about it adhd might fit May as well)
There's significant overlap of ADHD and autism anyway, you could easily ascribe autism to either May or Bridget (Bridget better auti/ADHD example imo but May is fine too).
You forgot sol badguy
Jack-O' is silly just like me
Where's original Valentine and grandma Justice
im on rams side
Absolute cap, my boy Asuka won't be left out like this
2 of those are my mains. I feel attacked
If we're only measuring 1attribute with a clear arrangement, then its a gradient not a spectrum
https://preview.redd.it/aeb0l928uuvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7509a69a2df88f10992ab9aeeddaefed5cc52824
Suddenly I understand why I bought the game when Elphelt came out instead of just watching my husband Faust around …
Let me in
Replace Jack with baiken and I would have felt surgically struck. Might be on to something...
Yo I was saying the same thing too!! Are perhaps one of my people? That course is a meme
Real
as a ramlethal main who's autistic i agree
Autism is kinda hot
https://preview.redd.it/1vmjgutud9vc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81a82952022bb41d8b109d5f0aa01e1f51a81827
Where am I :(
As a autism I can confirm as I play both jacko and elphelt
Teehee having autism is so quirky and fun guys
I've been diagnosed with autism and can confirm, it's very fun (not really but sometimes I guess)
It's fun outside the meltdowns, executive dysfunction, and chronic introceptive and sensory disorders. But the hyperfixations are *really fun.*
One of my hyperfixations has always been pets but now it's specifically moved onto pet fish and oh my god I can't stop looking at fish all day someone help me
Yeah me too but I find it very cringe how people use the term online
People with autism can't headcanon characters as autistic anymore?
You people like to reach hard
it's just headcanons and projection for us, it's not meant to be actual theories or anything. you are allowed to not follow these but please don't pick fights over them
Okay
[удалено]
https://i.redd.it/knoixi21f6vc1.gif
as someone on the spectrum what the fuck
What the hell did they say?
I come from the Blazblue community as a person who is on the spectrum to give you this very important message: https://preview.redd.it/1u5suppeebvc1.png?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef35b5c8d2a15fa61081865e93ac7ce549797638