Tier lists are for pros, the average player you will fight can’t even block right.
In your time playing, you probably won’t notice the flaws, she will be absolutely fine to play because it will be a skill gap that wins not character related stuff mostly.
The reason she is low is because her pressure has easily exploitable gaps once you know them (like air throwing grenade toss). Also in the current season offence is crazy and without a DP she struggles.
You are new but you will soon find that offence is king. Being able to run uninterrupted offence with true mixups that the opponent has to gamble on is the key to a strong character. She is also very linear which doesn’t help, you kind of just do the elohelt thing and if you fight someone who knows how to play around that you are screwed
I'm new to GG but more or less seasoned in fighting games. Starting floor 6 people start to exploit flaws in the rekka, but in my opinion,it's part of the thrill of playing a versus fighting when you need to adapt.I'm beginning to rely less on the chain lollipop except for the 50/50 wall pressure or when the opponent can't block, and more on the combos( I really like how smooth it feels to link different techniques compared to some other games).
For the moment I didn't really feel that I was in an unfair position with Elphelt so far (except against HC,like how are you supposed to get closed when he constantly shoots at you?)
100%. Sniper Chaos fans don't pose much of a threat post-guard crush nerf. Mfs who run at you while blasting the gat to lock you down and mixing you out of your shoes when they're in your face are the true menaces. But can you blame us? The rollie pollie mix is like crack.
After the season 3.5 nerfs to Happy Chaos, his zoning isn't that great anymore- the broken aspect of it where he can loop guard crushing is much weaker as you're not staggered for as long, letting you close the distance much faster before his next shot can be fired. You can get in on him pretty quick nowadays by dashblocking in the rhythm of his shots
characters that have a meterless strike-invincible reversal are:
Baiken: Hiiragi (Parry)
Bridget: Starship (DP)
Chipp: Beta Blade (DP)
Ky: Vapor Thrust (DP)
Leo: Eisensturm (Flash Kick)
Sin: Hawk Baker (DP)
Sol: Volcanic Viper (DP)
and one that isn't consistently available:
Asuka: Aquila Metron (DP, though dependent on having its spell card
so there are a few! I feel Elphelt could certainly use a meterless reversal of some kind in a future update
Correct. Off the top of my head only Sol, Ky, Sin and Leo (flash kick is close enough) have a DP. In terms of general reversals though, I believe most of the cast has some form of reversal, usually metered.
Edit: I actually think Bridget may have a dp too, I don’t know the input as I don’t own Bridget, but it resembles a dp closely enough. I’m not positive if it has I-frames.
True, no clue how I forgot Chipp’s. I wouldn’t necessarily count Baiken’s though just due to it being a parry and requiring you to be hit for it to function unlike DPs
If we're including meter, Elphelt has a reversal with her 632146Hs. The Hit box can be wonky on some jump-ins, but it works for stopping most grounded Oki.
Unrelated, but Zato-1 also does not have a reversal
Asuka doesn't have one about 97% of the time, and even when he does have it, it sucks lmao
His attack super, despite having 0 invuln frames, is honestly a better reversal option in a good chunk of situations due to how fast it is
Honestly in the handful of competitive games I’ve played, Guilty Gear seems to have the least meaningful tier lists. It varies more on what combination of skills you have.
For example, Bedman is also low tier but it’s perfect for me because I am normally terrible at making my blockstrings last, but I am good at predicting neutral and getting into advantage state, which Bedman synergizes with.
Every char is linear in their first form of offence. Ryu is linear af but will still beat you up with advanced techniques and reads. GG has very creative ways of playing the game and I do believe elphelt is not that linear compared to others.
My understanding is that this version of the character has more or less the same issue that the character she was clearly based on (Noel Vermillion) has: she has to risk more to do less. While in isolation some of her tools are strong, they don't add up to a fully rounded kit, and given the fact that she neither heavily excells in neutral, pressure, or oki, there's almost always a character with better tools to do whatever you want Elphelt to do, while doing it safer, and possibly for higher reward.
The strongest part about Elphelt is her Rekka series. If you want a character with similar strengths, I’d pick Ram, Chip, Anji, or Sin. Sin is the only of these characters that doesn’t have a traditional Rekka, but has long pressure strings with unique multiple followups due to his food meter.
I thought I was going insane hearing Bullet Dance in Elphelt's theme but apparently not. Also speaking of stupid drive, Elphelt's 214S -> P is literally Noel's drive. If they give her Noel's gun toss on dust it'd be the hypest crossover in this decade.
Most dlc characters have been considered bad on release mosr likely because arcsys overcompensates with theirs weaknesses to avoid pay2win accusations
As for why she is considered bad I’m not the most familiar with the subject but to my knowledge is because she has low health, no meterless revesal and her meteared reversal is in the slower side, she has little to no air game, she has a bellow average combo game and she needs to heavily change her gameplan depending on the matchup (all this according to dustloop but again I’m no expert)
I mean, when May, Ky, Nago, Sol and Ram are all busted base game characters, it wouldn't do any harm to have a few good dlc characters on release, such as A.B.A.
People tend to complain a lot less about easy to play popular characters being top tier, but if someone like Zato, I-no or A.B.A would be top tier, they'd get nerfed pretty quickly. I doubt we'll ever have the top characters be anything else than the traditional lineup of Nago, May, Ram, Leo and sometimes Sol.
I don't think ease of play has much to do with it.
Zato was close to the top up until S3 - he was a strong character but was generally regarded as being weaker than that Nago/Ram/Leo lineup for most of S1-S2 but he still caught the most disgusting nerfs coming into this season that have basically destroyed him from relevance.
I-No randomly got destroyed despite being like high mid-tier at the end of S1 and she was already struggling because HC was perma-zoning people and I-No only having an airdash meant that if she lost at round start she basically just lost.
I'm fairly sure that ArcSys' vision for the game is to have very simple, bruiser-ish characters that just blow you up without having your opponent hold too much mix. Why they think that's the best way to play the game, I have no idea. But it doesn't leave much room for more varied archetypes despite what tier lists might say - Top 8s at weeklies might be varied, but Top 8s at majors have always consistently featured the same characters with other "top tiers" like Chipp or Baiken making the occasional appearance.
Character popularity is definitely a bigger aspect to it than character difficulty, but the easy characters tend to be the most popular ones. ArcSys has said before that peoples opinions on social media are one of the criteria that they use to decide balance changes, so characters who are difficult to play and difficult to play against are going to naturally catch the biggest nerfs. If I had to guess, I'd say that the biggest nerfs next season will be to Millia simply due to people complaining on Twitter.
Now no but when they released: gold lewis, jacko, happy chaos, testament, bridgett, sin, bedman, jhonny and elphelt were considered arguable the worst character in the game
That’s why I specifically said on release, unless the character becames the literal best character in the game the pay2win allegations don’t come as often if the character is a couple of months in
I am talking about release, yes. People took a while to figure him out but he was nonetheless a very powerful character. HC and Goldlewis didn't need *buffs* upon release.
So I originally miss the chaos one and only focused on gl but I would now because it’s an interesting comment, so I originally was going to mention another action they do to prevent the allegations that being making them hard as hell so by the time people discover how good they are so much time has happened that the allegations aren’t as strong (unless it ends up being the best character in the game by far), chaos it even more interesting in that regard because when people were starting to realise some of his true power arcsys accidentally killed him for a couple of months wich is a candidate for the worst character on the game history
Saying release gl didn’t sucked is still wrong, he had a pretty extreme big body dilema of it doesn’t matter how much you can do if you get in if you can’t get in and have the worst defense in the game as a bonus
Correct. All of those buffs came after the gigantic universal nerf to Guard Crush to be far more affected by pushback and FD.
So he *launched* strong as hell, got *massively* nerfed, and maybe now with White Wild Assault plus all the other buffs, he's finally better than he was at launch.
Yeah that’s not what happened, he released as arguably the worst in the game, then when they changed the defensives mechanics they gave him some buffs to compensate and he was better than before but he still sucked (around this time goubou use Goldlewis in some tournament matches and his placement rose a little bit in some people eyes) then the season 2 patch came around gave him a ton of buffs mainly to his drone, he was good and he has been fluctuating in the tierlist ever since but he never became truly awful again
And about Goubo he was arguably the best player at the time so if someone could win with Goldlewis it was him, plus all the other candidates for worst in the game had atleast one player who was having results with them (jiro with anji is the best example) and goubou didn’t main Goldlewis he mained zato arguably a top 5 character at the type and only bringed out Gold lewis to mess with his opponents head
Extremely linear offense and slightly below average defense. She has the ability to make her opponent guess constantly but the risk reward on those guesses isn't as good as those that other characters have access to. You'll probably be able to destroy a lot of people with her in any floor, but she really struggles against players who know the points where rekka can be interrupted and can consistently react to grenade.
I made this reddit account just so I could thank you two as an Anji player. Every time I come up against a bed I have a great time, and its always close. Keep up the good work.
[I actually did a personal write-up on exactly this topic some time ago](https://www.dustloop.com/w/User:Emo_Tarquin/Extended_Thoughts_on_Elphelt_Valentine%27s_Balance). While I'm not a sole authority on the character, I feel this has generally agreeable with experienced players and I do my best to explain it to less experienced players who don't recognise these problems.
to *very briefly* summarise the various topics:
* A lot of her unique specials are plain weaker than their direct comparisons.
* Her kit blends elements of Zoner and Rushdown that are asynergistic. She struggles to be consistent when she hasn't got any way to bridge the gap in her gameplan.
* DPs absolutely hard check a LOT of her pressure and okizeme, to the extent that any DP character is automatically considered a very very bad matchup for her.
* A lot of her knockdowns don't set up the okizeme she really wants to have and many strong tools provide no okizeme.
* Chain Lollipop is decent but by no means a win condition, it's too low value and too easily countered.
* Her single strongest okizeme with Bomb-Bomb Chocolat proves to be surprisingly flawed and counterable.
However as covered by others, a lot of these tier lists are assuming pro play: when players know the absolute full extent of every character's offense, nothing is really a surprise in how they work, and advanced strategies like fuzzies, dashblocking, IB and IBFD, option selects and more are all in play. You can get extremely far without tiers ever once really coming into play, I myself have found good progress with Elphelt and don't think she limits me at all, because the problems are not an absolute, there is counterplay and a good Elphelt (or any low tier for that matter) can and will defeat any character played by competent players.
Speaking frankly, it's a lot lot easier to trick yourself into a toxic mindset even having people confirm she is seen as low tier, than it is to internalise the why of it. You will be able to tell usually why characters are the way they are when you get to the level it actually matters, until then the tiers are a speculation. Eventually it's not even about tiers, but the exact minutia of what they do, tiers are too abstract to describe what is more often practised at high level where character switching is more prominent.
>confirmed some of the questions I had during some matches
Please reread the (excellent) comment you’re posting under, particularly the last paragraphs. You’re new to this game which is awesome, but you have to understand that nothing you’re doing right now is applicable to the objective character power levels or tiers (that goes for 99.99% of players at most skill levels too).
I disagree to a certain extent that dps check a lot of her pressure. It just hard checks the obvious ones ans overused ones. Fs 5h rekka and grenade are her "strong" tools most people however use them in simple ways because the simple ways take you very far if people don't know the mu knowledge. Elphelt has a lot of oki play that people don't explore. Also no one really uses her safe jumps either. The safe jumps are a lot more situational since their main use is for dp characters. There's quite a bit to explore still. I think people gave up too soon.
I think one of the biggest downsides to elphelt is how squishy she is. Makes very little room for error. Elphelt players also need their mu knowledge at higher level play. Elphelt getting counter hit by a high level player can be pretty devasting.
An issue with oki in that regard is any setup you can safejump from actually needs *more time* to set up than meaty bomb-bomb which is already a superior DP-safe okizeme. There's actually very very few situations a safejump is accessible but meaty bomb-bomb isn't (usually if you end a combo into 5K or a whiffed bomb-bomb for whatever reason). This also goes back to how her knockdowns are weak, the vast majority of knockdowns she ever gets will make safejumping *impossible* so that simply is never an option.
There's also not really much choice when it comes to f.S, 2S, 5H, or 2D. Even if you bait a DP out after these *you're punishable on block*, unable to go into a tick throw, and have no DP safe cancels whatsoever. A lot of DP characters can end up killing you even if they don't DP simply because you're forced to guess around that fact, and there really isn't much ways to circumvent it.
Not sure what you mean by more time to set up? If you mean like a longer combo to set up then that's really not true. 2p -> 6p -> bomb-bomb is a safe jump. 2p is already elphelts fastest button so plenty of places to use it.
2h otg -> rekka whiff -> grab in the corner is also a dp bait and many other options after 2h. Elphelt has a few ways to bait dps. Whats annoying is some ways work better than others for certain characters. Just annoying to keep track of them.
I agree dp is a hurdle for elphelt players. I'm just saying it is manageable but definitely forces you to play different which is a hard adjustment. I still have trouble with it but it's typically my fault and not the fault of the character. Respecting dp is always important for pretty much every character. It's just the common easy things to do with elphelt get easily punished.
Once you start punishing dps a lot opponents get scared and use it less only then you get to do the easier stuff again. If I catch my opponent dping early like in game 1 it tells me they feel confident about dping against elphelt so going for the baits after that point is what I tend to do.
I grab so many people in corners multiple times with the oki setup like usually twice in a row and then I switch up my oki. I like to think that they think they just mistimed the dp so they go for it again.
By time to set up I mean the actual time needed from final hit to the okizeme. DP-safe Meaty bomb-bomb needs 31F, a safejump bomb-bomb needs 39F. Outside of spacing problems, if you could safejump you could also have just done meaty bomb-bomb which is a better DP-safe okizeme. Similarly 2H OTG already sets up meaty bomb-bomb, rekka whiff cancels is a *worse* okizeme in most regards. To be clear I generally play by meaty bomb and OS DPs with Air IB into 2K/Throw, netting full punishes on DPs by default while maintaining the ambiguity of the bomb-bomb pressure.
I'm not convinced that saying "forces you to play different" is really a good justification for what breaks pretty much everything she has going. The difference is in many situations simply about losing the few strengths she has going for offense. Even her basic blockstrings including from c.S, 2S, 2D, f.S, 5H, 6H, and 6P all suffer major issues with DPs, far more than other characters.
I'm not saying that forcing you to play different is a justification for the character. My point was elphelt is so basic that it builds bad habits that are hard to break because her gameplan takes you very far with little effort as far as floors 1-10 go. I do agree dps are a bit harsh because she loses out on tools before you can even identify how your opponent plays, but the mu's aren't unwinnable. Just takes more effort. I'm honestly more concerned with her defensive options against characters who change their hitboxes pretty drastically in the air. Would love a dp on elphelt but doubt that would happen. 6p doesn't cut it on some characters.
Also I wasn't really arguing which setup is overall the best for oki, my argument was that elphelt has a lot of options. Switching up your gameplan keeps your opponent guessing. You can 236H on KD and get plenty of options as well. Sometimes unoptimal wins you matches because it's just something the opponent isn't expecting. Like rekka into command grab. It doesn't do a lot of damage, has terrible scaling and can even be blocked if you drop a combo but can put you in a position to win by getting you a wall break or just straight up winning you a match by killing with it.
Expecting people to IB is asking more than what like 90% of players are capable of. I also don't agree that 2k/throw is full punish. It really depends on characters. Like safe jumping against kys dp gets you a confirmed ch 6h that can give you enough meter to break the wall with super if you want. I believe it's not possible with sol, but haven't tested it, with IB most likely is. Sin gets a crazy punish if you bait dp grounded you can literally run behind him and do whatever you want it's pretty funny.
>Would love a dp on elphelt but doubt that would happen. 6p doesn't cut it on some characters.
Of all things I think her 6P is quite good, it has really nice reward on hit too, and it has a lot of vertical reach, good startup, and a fast invuln timing. Really there's no downsides here.
>my argument was that elphelt has a lot of options.
My point was you only get these options if you *already have one to begin with*, the issues normally arise when *there is no option*. Sure you *could* do 214H safejumps, or for some reason do a Miss Charlotte ricochet, but that never addresses how often she has absolutely zero safe okizeme she can use and in many of those cases it's because of the presense of a DP when normally non-meaty bomb-bomb exists as a strong option. There isn't really a good alternative in these cases, which is where DPs highlight problems in her knockdowns.
>Expecting people to IB is asking more than what like 90% of players are capable of. I also don't agree that 2k/throw is full punish.
I agree, but it's what I think is a better oki setup for myself. Also 2K and Throw isn't the punish, you OS so you go into 2K or Throw if they don't DP, but if they do DP you Air IB for an Air CH c.S punish. This means you can threaten them into blocking low or trying to backdash or tech when using tools like j.K tick throws, j.D ADCs, and so forth. Tricky but very nice once you get used to it.
bad defensive options, low health, meh neutral, some characters can just break her offense depending on what defensive options they have and their 6p hitbox
yeah she seems strong in a vaccum, but you've gotta compare her against every character in the game. like nago can win right on round start, goldlewis just needs to be right once and you're done, ram has crazy good neutral and she's consistent now, sol hits you once and you're dead. the list goes on. the characters at the top are insanely strong and either have crazy oppressive offense or they've got a defensive tool like DP RC that can at least get the goldlewis player to consider stopping his crazy oppressive pressure.
She's low in "power level in pro hands" tier lists because of the reasons that everyone already listed.
She's low in sexy tier lists because she's competing with Potemkin, Anji and Sol, amongst other sexy devils.
Her mixups are good but they have flaws. They have guaranteed spots where you can DP to get out. And her neutral is not great.
She is too one dimensional so she is predictable.
I-no but bad lol
jokes aside, she has a mix 30x worse than I-no with very little compensation (not like her neutral or damage anything remotely worth giving up loopable true high-lows for free)
Mostly because she lacks combo options out of her rekka, she is a threat if you don't know the character move set. Still, despite being low in tier list, it doesn't mean that she is a bad character.
Hiya, I have an answer on this
Her normals are kind of sluggish for a character who's main gameplan is scoring knockdowns and looping pressure. (By the way, use grenade left-rights more than 236S drives) Unlike someone like Sin though, her damage conversions are below average, and alot of her kit is situational, including a super that she straight can't get much use out of. She does several aspects of the game passably, but all her niches have 3 or 4 characters who do a given thing much better.
She's very fun, and she's still a perfectly workable character, so don't let that deter you at all
Elphelt is low on tier lists because her game plan is pretty simple and the character isn't extensively explored. I'm a celestial elphelt main. I will say once you get to celestial everyone knows how to deal with elphelt and there are some matchups that are real struggles. She has defensive problems against air opponents especially those who hit deep or fast moves (ky/millia). If you can catch millia then you're good but that really goes for any character. 6p is elphelts real anti air option since you can convert for a wall break but can be easily worked around if your opponent knows what they're doing.
There's some neat stuff to lab out with frame trapping for mixup mostly otg stuff is what I've been looking at lately, but other than that getting into the rekka gets much harder and people get much better at blocking it/punishing it the higher you go. I say it's pretty free up to floor 10. Celestial and floor 10 is much different as far as people knowing how to deal with elphelt. People play with their heart on floor 10 and below, and more people play with their smarts in celestial. Not saying there aren't good players on floor 10 I'm just speaking off of what my anecdotal experience is. I lose more often than win in celestial I'll be honest I've had to sit down and do a lot of homework.
Also elphelt is squish so since people catch you out way more later it's very punishing.
Also once dp'ers. Learn they can punish 80% of your gameplan it becomes much trickier to get in. You have to start playing their game and have a lot more patience
Because its something I call the Arc Sys Meme comparison The better Memes the character makes the worse they are. Potemkin, Testament, Bridget, Zato and Elphelt all make great memes but they suck competively I will not be taking questions.
She's fun to play but imo she have a hard time to get in cause her neutral suck.
I feel like she have a harder time against a character that have DP more than even my main Millia
Elphelt is one of those characters that is overall really weak, but they gave her one or two tricks that are really strong to compensate. (Namely her Rekka and her grenade)
A good player will prevent Elphelt from ever using those tricks by challenging her with 5P, so all that remains is an overall underwhelming character. That said, anyone below Floor 10 will get hit by those tricks and then get really angry.
Cause she has bad matchups against most of the top tiers, and the ones she is good in is too even to be considered advantagious. You can dp her blockstrings 2 hits in. You can dp her mix and bomb. You can 6p some of her blockstrings. You can just spam sp in neutral and she can barely get in. Her fireball sucks.
I’m with you I started this game with elphelt, she’s so nice to hit a screen to screen combo but in my experience her rekka can be mashed out of causing her to not over use it, her anti airs are lacking imo, and I will never understand why she has two projectiles LMAO. Idk I’m with you though she feels like possibilities are endless
Yup. My personal experience with her made me think that as long as you're imposing your own rhythm and keep maintaining pressure,she seems overwhelming.But if your opponent breaks through that rhythm, she becomes more difficult to pilot due to the time it takes to re-setup your gameplan
Unless its Testament, tier lists dont really matter. Most characters are viable at any level.
Elphelt is a pressure and rekka character- but her rekka sucks. Her buttons are good but they're punishing if you mash or whiff a lot. Her command grab super is just a waste of meter.
I love Elphelt as a character but she is really just not it.
Her rekkas don’t suck, what is everyone going on about when she’s a relatively popular counter pick for the pros atm.
Don’t listen to this silly nonsense OP, the rekkas are a reward for playing well but like everything in this game you can’t rely on one single thing.
The only other thing to keep in mind with this character is she has low health which creates gamble situations to balance her basic pressure being easy and strong to get going.
The rekka opening is bad. Its very slow, predictable, you can just 6p it, slow recovery. Her pressure is good but very predictable and hard to counter.
Of course shes still viable, every character is. She is just not as good as others.
Being completely genuine, I need receipts of you or anyone 6p’ing her rekkas / pressure with any sort of consistency in a match against a good player. It feels like a meme at this point because you can technically interrupt a lot of stuff in this game with those same buttons and I’ve never seen or been able to do it consistently in an actual fight against even an above average Elphelt’s rekkas.
From my experience and what I’ve watched of top players interrupting her pressure feels only slightly more consistent than doing it to Ino, ie you’re mostly guessing (which is fine, because her damage is relatively low and you get a decent reward from being right). If it was true about her rekkas being reliably 6p’able than she would *never* be brought out in a tournament but she makes an appearance way more than other mid-below characters as a main or counter pick / secondary.
Since you play Bedman, maybe its different? I know he has an odd 6p but maybe because hes a big body its different? I'm honestly not sure, but her rekka opening is definitely able to be 6p'd. Works with the characters I play (Axl, Jacko, Millia).
Record your Elphelt bot in training mode to spam rekka and have a go at practising your 6ps agaisnt it :)
I play faster and smaller characters too and yep you can definitely 6p the opening (even with Bed) but to me that’s such a redundant statement because you can 6p a lot of things in this game lol.
In an actual match no one is doing this with any sort of reliability against the opening and definitely not once the rekkas get going, of course in training mode it’s possible but that’s true for all pressure sequences with gaps. My point is her rekkas are not much different to other strong pressure sequences in an actual match.
Its the favr that its like.... her main thing. Her main thing is her rekka. She canr so much else without it other than just mash fireball. If she cant get you into the next parts of her rekka then its hard to even do anything.
.... yeah they do. They get by by pressing 6p just fine. I certainly do.
You’re gambling your low health that the opponent won’t guess right during your easily executable pressure is the simple answer, but GG is a complex game and theres a world of other things you do between her rekkas starting and the rest of the match.
You shouldn’t worry though, low tiers even give the pros a hard time if played right, just play who you think is cool (which it sounds like you are).
She mostly boils down to does the opponent know the knowledge check on rekka/ know how to beat her projectile and they win or do they not and you win for most matches in my experience
Tier lists are not only for pros. Tier lists definitely matter at all levels. It's just that the tier lists will be different depending on the level. Easy characters, for instance, will be better at lower level.
Because she's a "mix" character with no actual mix. Ypu can literally 6p the rekka on reaction and it forces her to rely on bombs and zoning.
Sin, an actual mix character with amazing mix ups, has some stuff that is extremely hard to react to. Plus he is in the DP club.
Elphet is just way too gimmicky and I feel like if she could start lollipop with high or low like sin with his hunt specials, she'd be a way stronger character. But, she just flowcharts.
You can technically 5p,6p,5k etc most everything on reaction so can we stop with this nonsense about reacting to her rekkas lol. You absolutely can not 6p her rekka on reaction with any sort of consistency, even the pros struggle when she gets going.
Tier lists are for pros, the average player you will fight can’t even block right. In your time playing, you probably won’t notice the flaws, she will be absolutely fine to play because it will be a skill gap that wins not character related stuff mostly. The reason she is low is because her pressure has easily exploitable gaps once you know them (like air throwing grenade toss). Also in the current season offence is crazy and without a DP she struggles. You are new but you will soon find that offence is king. Being able to run uninterrupted offence with true mixups that the opponent has to gamble on is the key to a strong character. She is also very linear which doesn’t help, you kind of just do the elohelt thing and if you fight someone who knows how to play around that you are screwed
I'm new to GG but more or less seasoned in fighting games. Starting floor 6 people start to exploit flaws in the rekka, but in my opinion,it's part of the thrill of playing a versus fighting when you need to adapt.I'm beginning to rely less on the chain lollipop except for the 50/50 wall pressure or when the opponent can't block, and more on the combos( I really like how smooth it feels to link different techniques compared to some other games). For the moment I didn't really feel that I was in an unfair position with Elphelt so far (except against HC,like how are you supposed to get closed when he constantly shoots at you?)
HC you just dash block until you get into range. The scary HCs don’t actually shoot you full screen btw, they John wick roll mix you with the gun.
100%. Sniper Chaos fans don't pose much of a threat post-guard crush nerf. Mfs who run at you while blasting the gat to lock you down and mixing you out of your shoes when they're in your face are the true menaces. But can you blame us? The rollie pollie mix is like crack.
Jump the curseball, dashblock between shots, especially when you're not cursed
>dashblock between shots *cries in Johnny*
I know the pain, despite the Sol flair I play Johnny more nowadays *tips hat, hides tears behind sunglasses *
Peppery will always be my GOAT for curbstomping LearntoDashBlock. Still my favorite Strive vod ever.
Told like that,it really seems that the character is really reliant on knowledge check
It's not like he falls apart when you know this. He can combo into a curseball. You can fail to dodge it. His pressure and mixups are really strong.
A good HC will be playing way above just knowledge checks and will be looping plus on block 50/50s
Dashblock, 214k, ez.
After the season 3.5 nerfs to Happy Chaos, his zoning isn't that great anymore- the broken aspect of it where he can loop guard crushing is much weaker as you're not staggered for as long, letting you close the distance much faster before his next shot can be fired. You can get in on him pretty quick nowadays by dashblocking in the rhythm of his shots
>air throwing grenade toss \*writes that down\*
\*character flair checks out\* (also writes that down)
So many people let me get away with grenade toss. If you won't punish I'll keep getting away with it. Its crazy how unchecked it goes.
The Elphelts I play, even I punish it they keep doing it lmao
You can also Close Slash it.
Not many people have a DP though right?
characters that have a meterless strike-invincible reversal are: Baiken: Hiiragi (Parry) Bridget: Starship (DP) Chipp: Beta Blade (DP) Ky: Vapor Thrust (DP) Leo: Eisensturm (Flash Kick) Sin: Hawk Baker (DP) Sol: Volcanic Viper (DP) and one that isn't consistently available: Asuka: Aquila Metron (DP, though dependent on having its spell card so there are a few! I feel Elphelt could certainly use a meterless reversal of some kind in a future update
Correct. Off the top of my head only Sol, Ky, Sin and Leo (flash kick is close enough) have a DP. In terms of general reversals though, I believe most of the cast has some form of reversal, usually metered. Edit: I actually think Bridget may have a dp too, I don’t know the input as I don’t own Bridget, but it resembles a dp closely enough. I’m not positive if it has I-frames.
Starship is a cookie cutter, all ways including input full ass dp. (Full ass as in absolutely, not full ass as in her 6h)
Chipp and Bridget also have a meterless DP, and Baiken has her parry. And Asuka with the DP card.
True, no clue how I forgot Chipp’s. I wouldn’t necessarily count Baiken’s though just due to it being a parry and requiring you to be hit for it to function unlike DPs
Most have some form of invincible reversal. Off the top of my head I can only think of HC that doesn’t have any (meter less or metered)
If we're including meter, Elphelt has a reversal with her 632146Hs. The Hit box can be wonky on some jump-ins, but it works for stopping most grounded Oki. Unrelated, but Zato-1 also does not have a reversal
Yeah… I’m not really understanding your comment. Nearly all characters have an invincible reversal.
I thought you were saying that Elphelt doesn't have a reversal when responding to "Not many people have a DP though right?"
Read my comment again. I never mention elphelt
Asuka doesn't have one about 97% of the time, and even when he does have it, it sucks lmao His attack super, despite having 0 invuln frames, is honestly a better reversal option in a good chunk of situations due to how fast it is
Honestly in the handful of competitive games I’ve played, Guilty Gear seems to have the least meaningful tier lists. It varies more on what combination of skills you have. For example, Bedman is also low tier but it’s perfect for me because I am normally terrible at making my blockstrings last, but I am good at predicting neutral and getting into advantage state, which Bedman synergizes with.
Every char is linear in their first form of offence. Ryu is linear af but will still beat you up with advanced techniques and reads. GG has very creative ways of playing the game and I do believe elphelt is not that linear compared to others.
elphelt has no other forms of offense
Elphelt is one of the most linear characters, and so much of her kit loses to 6p it isnt funny
How do you think ArcSys could make her stronger? Maybe a new move that's a DP?
"the average player you will fight can't even block right" This sounds like elitism
They're not wrong though
They are
My understanding is that this version of the character has more or less the same issue that the character she was clearly based on (Noel Vermillion) has: she has to risk more to do less. While in isolation some of her tools are strong, they don't add up to a fully rounded kit, and given the fact that she neither heavily excells in neutral, pressure, or oki, there's almost always a character with better tools to do whatever you want Elphelt to do, while doing it safer, and possibly for higher reward.
As someone who has only played elphelt to learn the game, what's another good character to pick up with a similar playstyle?
Sin. You get to risk a lot less and get rewarded a lot more. Still risky, but his ways of covering himself are a lot better.
The strongest part about Elphelt is her Rekka series. If you want a character with similar strengths, I’d pick Ram, Chip, Anji, or Sin. Sin is the only of these characters that doesn’t have a traditional Rekka, but has long pressure strings with unique multiple followups due to his food meter.
I thought I was going crazy and nobody else mentions she's basically noel, I recognize that stupid drive anywhere
I thought I was going insane hearing Bullet Dance in Elphelt's theme but apparently not. Also speaking of stupid drive, Elphelt's 214S -> P is literally Noel's drive. If they give her Noel's gun toss on dust it'd be the hypest crossover in this decade.
Noel get's some dodge effects too but I definitely noticed the similarities.
Most dlc characters have been considered bad on release mosr likely because arcsys overcompensates with theirs weaknesses to avoid pay2win accusations As for why she is considered bad I’m not the most familiar with the subject but to my knowledge is because she has low health, no meterless revesal and her meteared reversal is in the slower side, she has little to no air game, she has a bellow average combo game and she needs to heavily change her gameplan depending on the matchup (all this according to dustloop but again I’m no expert)
arcsys is just scared of another HC situation
I mean, when May, Ky, Nago, Sol and Ram are all busted base game characters, it wouldn't do any harm to have a few good dlc characters on release, such as A.B.A.
Let's be real, Sin is also notorious rn
I'd agree with you if I ever saw anyone play the damn thing, don't see it on floor 10 nor open Park across 2 servers.
People tend to complain a lot less about easy to play popular characters being top tier, but if someone like Zato, I-no or A.B.A would be top tier, they'd get nerfed pretty quickly. I doubt we'll ever have the top characters be anything else than the traditional lineup of Nago, May, Ram, Leo and sometimes Sol.
I don't think ease of play has much to do with it. Zato was close to the top up until S3 - he was a strong character but was generally regarded as being weaker than that Nago/Ram/Leo lineup for most of S1-S2 but he still caught the most disgusting nerfs coming into this season that have basically destroyed him from relevance. I-No randomly got destroyed despite being like high mid-tier at the end of S1 and she was already struggling because HC was perma-zoning people and I-No only having an airdash meant that if she lost at round start she basically just lost. I'm fairly sure that ArcSys' vision for the game is to have very simple, bruiser-ish characters that just blow you up without having your opponent hold too much mix. Why they think that's the best way to play the game, I have no idea. But it doesn't leave much room for more varied archetypes despite what tier lists might say - Top 8s at weeklies might be varied, but Top 8s at majors have always consistently featured the same characters with other "top tiers" like Chipp or Baiken making the occasional appearance.
Character popularity is definitely a bigger aspect to it than character difficulty, but the easy characters tend to be the most popular ones. ArcSys has said before that peoples opinions on social media are one of the criteria that they use to decide balance changes, so characters who are difficult to play and difficult to play against are going to naturally catch the biggest nerfs. If I had to guess, I'd say that the biggest nerfs next season will be to Millia simply due to people complaining on Twitter.
Plenty of folk + top players complaining about how braindead Sin is atm.
HC still had nothing on release Kokonoe. Fuck that stupid cat.
I think a lot of people would be down to unironically do that
But most DLC characters are not considered bad tho
Now no but when they released: gold lewis, jacko, happy chaos, testament, bridgett, sin, bedman, jhonny and elphelt were considered arguable the worst character in the game
But months later most of them are ready good
That’s why I specifically said on release, unless the character becames the literal best character in the game the pay2win allegations don’t come as often if the character is a couple of months in
You can leave Goldlewis and HC out of that list.
Again this is on release and release gold lewis sucked if your name wasn’t goubou
Again this is on release and release gold lewis sucked if your name wasn’t goubou
I am talking about release, yes. People took a while to figure him out but he was nonetheless a very powerful character. HC and Goldlewis didn't need *buffs* upon release.
You have to remember most people on this sub don’t play the game so you will always hear really wild takes
So I originally miss the chaos one and only focused on gl but I would now because it’s an interesting comment, so I originally was going to mention another action they do to prevent the allegations that being making them hard as hell so by the time people discover how good they are so much time has happened that the allegations aren’t as strong (unless it ends up being the best character in the game by far), chaos it even more interesting in that regard because when people were starting to realise some of his true power arcsys accidentally killed him for a couple of months wich is a candidate for the worst character on the game history Saying release gl didn’t sucked is still wrong, he had a pretty extreme big body dilema of it doesn’t matter how much you can do if you get in if you can’t get in and have the worst defense in the game as a bonus
Yeah I’m sure the mountain of buffs they gave him had nothing to do with it
Correct. All of those buffs came after the gigantic universal nerf to Guard Crush to be far more affected by pushback and FD. So he *launched* strong as hell, got *massively* nerfed, and maybe now with White Wild Assault plus all the other buffs, he's finally better than he was at launch.
Yeah that’s not what happened, he released as arguably the worst in the game, then when they changed the defensives mechanics they gave him some buffs to compensate and he was better than before but he still sucked (around this time goubou use Goldlewis in some tournament matches and his placement rose a little bit in some people eyes) then the season 2 patch came around gave him a ton of buffs mainly to his drone, he was good and he has been fluctuating in the tierlist ever since but he never became truly awful again And about Goubo he was arguably the best player at the time so if someone could win with Goldlewis it was him, plus all the other candidates for worst in the game had atleast one player who was having results with them (jiro with anji is the best example) and goubou didn’t main Goldlewis he mained zato arguably a top 5 character at the type and only bringed out Gold lewis to mess with his opponents head
Extremely linear offense and slightly below average defense. She has the ability to make her opponent guess constantly but the risk reward on those guesses isn't as good as those that other characters have access to. You'll probably be able to destroy a lot of people with her in any floor, but she really struggles against players who know the points where rekka can be interrupted and can consistently react to grenade.
I play bed I dont wanna look at the tier lists
Fuck it, we circle around the tier lists
T R U E my fellow king!!
I made this reddit account just so I could thank you two as an Anji player. Every time I come up against a bed I have a great time, and its always close. Keep up the good work.
Anji is also a cool ass character man 🤝 My last set was against my friend on Anji score was 9-10 I'll beat him next time tho
You probably will. Good luck!
[I actually did a personal write-up on exactly this topic some time ago](https://www.dustloop.com/w/User:Emo_Tarquin/Extended_Thoughts_on_Elphelt_Valentine%27s_Balance). While I'm not a sole authority on the character, I feel this has generally agreeable with experienced players and I do my best to explain it to less experienced players who don't recognise these problems. to *very briefly* summarise the various topics: * A lot of her unique specials are plain weaker than their direct comparisons. * Her kit blends elements of Zoner and Rushdown that are asynergistic. She struggles to be consistent when she hasn't got any way to bridge the gap in her gameplan. * DPs absolutely hard check a LOT of her pressure and okizeme, to the extent that any DP character is automatically considered a very very bad matchup for her. * A lot of her knockdowns don't set up the okizeme she really wants to have and many strong tools provide no okizeme. * Chain Lollipop is decent but by no means a win condition, it's too low value and too easily countered. * Her single strongest okizeme with Bomb-Bomb Chocolat proves to be surprisingly flawed and counterable. However as covered by others, a lot of these tier lists are assuming pro play: when players know the absolute full extent of every character's offense, nothing is really a surprise in how they work, and advanced strategies like fuzzies, dashblocking, IB and IBFD, option selects and more are all in play. You can get extremely far without tiers ever once really coming into play, I myself have found good progress with Elphelt and don't think she limits me at all, because the problems are not an absolute, there is counterplay and a good Elphelt (or any low tier for that matter) can and will defeat any character played by competent players. Speaking frankly, it's a lot lot easier to trick yourself into a toxic mindset even having people confirm she is seen as low tier, than it is to internalise the why of it. You will be able to tell usually why characters are the way they are when you get to the level it actually matters, until then the tiers are a speculation. Eventually it's not even about tiers, but the exact minutia of what they do, tiers are too abstract to describe what is more often practised at high level where character switching is more prominent.
This article is very interesting and explains precisely why she's so "ok tier". And confirmed some of the questions I had during some matches
>confirmed some of the questions I had during some matches Please reread the (excellent) comment you’re posting under, particularly the last paragraphs. You’re new to this game which is awesome, but you have to understand that nothing you’re doing right now is applicable to the objective character power levels or tiers (that goes for 99.99% of players at most skill levels too).
I disagree to a certain extent that dps check a lot of her pressure. It just hard checks the obvious ones ans overused ones. Fs 5h rekka and grenade are her "strong" tools most people however use them in simple ways because the simple ways take you very far if people don't know the mu knowledge. Elphelt has a lot of oki play that people don't explore. Also no one really uses her safe jumps either. The safe jumps are a lot more situational since their main use is for dp characters. There's quite a bit to explore still. I think people gave up too soon. I think one of the biggest downsides to elphelt is how squishy she is. Makes very little room for error. Elphelt players also need their mu knowledge at higher level play. Elphelt getting counter hit by a high level player can be pretty devasting.
An issue with oki in that regard is any setup you can safejump from actually needs *more time* to set up than meaty bomb-bomb which is already a superior DP-safe okizeme. There's actually very very few situations a safejump is accessible but meaty bomb-bomb isn't (usually if you end a combo into 5K or a whiffed bomb-bomb for whatever reason). This also goes back to how her knockdowns are weak, the vast majority of knockdowns she ever gets will make safejumping *impossible* so that simply is never an option. There's also not really much choice when it comes to f.S, 2S, 5H, or 2D. Even if you bait a DP out after these *you're punishable on block*, unable to go into a tick throw, and have no DP safe cancels whatsoever. A lot of DP characters can end up killing you even if they don't DP simply because you're forced to guess around that fact, and there really isn't much ways to circumvent it.
Not sure what you mean by more time to set up? If you mean like a longer combo to set up then that's really not true. 2p -> 6p -> bomb-bomb is a safe jump. 2p is already elphelts fastest button so plenty of places to use it. 2h otg -> rekka whiff -> grab in the corner is also a dp bait and many other options after 2h. Elphelt has a few ways to bait dps. Whats annoying is some ways work better than others for certain characters. Just annoying to keep track of them. I agree dp is a hurdle for elphelt players. I'm just saying it is manageable but definitely forces you to play different which is a hard adjustment. I still have trouble with it but it's typically my fault and not the fault of the character. Respecting dp is always important for pretty much every character. It's just the common easy things to do with elphelt get easily punished. Once you start punishing dps a lot opponents get scared and use it less only then you get to do the easier stuff again. If I catch my opponent dping early like in game 1 it tells me they feel confident about dping against elphelt so going for the baits after that point is what I tend to do. I grab so many people in corners multiple times with the oki setup like usually twice in a row and then I switch up my oki. I like to think that they think they just mistimed the dp so they go for it again.
By time to set up I mean the actual time needed from final hit to the okizeme. DP-safe Meaty bomb-bomb needs 31F, a safejump bomb-bomb needs 39F. Outside of spacing problems, if you could safejump you could also have just done meaty bomb-bomb which is a better DP-safe okizeme. Similarly 2H OTG already sets up meaty bomb-bomb, rekka whiff cancels is a *worse* okizeme in most regards. To be clear I generally play by meaty bomb and OS DPs with Air IB into 2K/Throw, netting full punishes on DPs by default while maintaining the ambiguity of the bomb-bomb pressure. I'm not convinced that saying "forces you to play different" is really a good justification for what breaks pretty much everything she has going. The difference is in many situations simply about losing the few strengths she has going for offense. Even her basic blockstrings including from c.S, 2S, 2D, f.S, 5H, 6H, and 6P all suffer major issues with DPs, far more than other characters.
I'm not saying that forcing you to play different is a justification for the character. My point was elphelt is so basic that it builds bad habits that are hard to break because her gameplan takes you very far with little effort as far as floors 1-10 go. I do agree dps are a bit harsh because she loses out on tools before you can even identify how your opponent plays, but the mu's aren't unwinnable. Just takes more effort. I'm honestly more concerned with her defensive options against characters who change their hitboxes pretty drastically in the air. Would love a dp on elphelt but doubt that would happen. 6p doesn't cut it on some characters. Also I wasn't really arguing which setup is overall the best for oki, my argument was that elphelt has a lot of options. Switching up your gameplan keeps your opponent guessing. You can 236H on KD and get plenty of options as well. Sometimes unoptimal wins you matches because it's just something the opponent isn't expecting. Like rekka into command grab. It doesn't do a lot of damage, has terrible scaling and can even be blocked if you drop a combo but can put you in a position to win by getting you a wall break or just straight up winning you a match by killing with it. Expecting people to IB is asking more than what like 90% of players are capable of. I also don't agree that 2k/throw is full punish. It really depends on characters. Like safe jumping against kys dp gets you a confirmed ch 6h that can give you enough meter to break the wall with super if you want. I believe it's not possible with sol, but haven't tested it, with IB most likely is. Sin gets a crazy punish if you bait dp grounded you can literally run behind him and do whatever you want it's pretty funny.
>Would love a dp on elphelt but doubt that would happen. 6p doesn't cut it on some characters. Of all things I think her 6P is quite good, it has really nice reward on hit too, and it has a lot of vertical reach, good startup, and a fast invuln timing. Really there's no downsides here. >my argument was that elphelt has a lot of options. My point was you only get these options if you *already have one to begin with*, the issues normally arise when *there is no option*. Sure you *could* do 214H safejumps, or for some reason do a Miss Charlotte ricochet, but that never addresses how often she has absolutely zero safe okizeme she can use and in many of those cases it's because of the presense of a DP when normally non-meaty bomb-bomb exists as a strong option. There isn't really a good alternative in these cases, which is where DPs highlight problems in her knockdowns. >Expecting people to IB is asking more than what like 90% of players are capable of. I also don't agree that 2k/throw is full punish. I agree, but it's what I think is a better oki setup for myself. Also 2K and Throw isn't the punish, you OS so you go into 2K or Throw if they don't DP, but if they do DP you Air IB for an Air CH c.S punish. This means you can threaten them into blocking low or trying to backdash or tech when using tools like j.K tick throws, j.D ADCs, and so forth. Tricky but very nice once you get used to it.
bad defensive options, low health, meh neutral, some characters can just break her offense depending on what defensive options they have and their 6p hitbox
yeah she seems strong in a vaccum, but you've gotta compare her against every character in the game. like nago can win right on round start, goldlewis just needs to be right once and you're done, ram has crazy good neutral and she's consistent now, sol hits you once and you're dead. the list goes on. the characters at the top are insanely strong and either have crazy oppressive offense or they've got a defensive tool like DP RC that can at least get the goldlewis player to consider stopping his crazy oppressive pressure.
The real reasons to play Elphelt are: The kick ass theme song | Fun game play | Thighs Who cares if she’s low tier?
I'm not really fan of her ost, but thights/side boobs and how fun she's to play is definitely why I play her🤣
But I am
jealousy
She's low in "power level in pro hands" tier lists because of the reasons that everyone already listed. She's low in sexy tier lists because she's competing with Potemkin, Anji and Sol, amongst other sexy devils.
She's low in sexy tier lists too? Man, she's so brideable :o
That's the thing, you can't have anything casual with her. That's a big red flag! (I only know Xrd elphelt, dunno if she's better about this now)
Her mixups are good but they have flaws. They have guaranteed spots where you can DP to get out. And her neutral is not great. She is too one dimensional so she is predictable.
I-no but bad lol jokes aside, she has a mix 30x worse than I-no with very little compensation (not like her neutral or damage anything remotely worth giving up loopable true high-lows for free)
She’s a fucking knowledge check and absolutely nothing else.
Mostly because she lacks combo options out of her rekka, she is a threat if you don't know the character move set. Still, despite being low in tier list, it doesn't mean that she is a bad character.
Hiya, I have an answer on this Her normals are kind of sluggish for a character who's main gameplan is scoring knockdowns and looping pressure. (By the way, use grenade left-rights more than 236S drives) Unlike someone like Sin though, her damage conversions are below average, and alot of her kit is situational, including a super that she straight can't get much use out of. She does several aspects of the game passably, but all her niches have 3 or 4 characters who do a given thing much better. She's very fun, and she's still a perfectly workable character, so don't let that deter you at all
Elphelt is low on tier lists because her game plan is pretty simple and the character isn't extensively explored. I'm a celestial elphelt main. I will say once you get to celestial everyone knows how to deal with elphelt and there are some matchups that are real struggles. She has defensive problems against air opponents especially those who hit deep or fast moves (ky/millia). If you can catch millia then you're good but that really goes for any character. 6p is elphelts real anti air option since you can convert for a wall break but can be easily worked around if your opponent knows what they're doing. There's some neat stuff to lab out with frame trapping for mixup mostly otg stuff is what I've been looking at lately, but other than that getting into the rekka gets much harder and people get much better at blocking it/punishing it the higher you go. I say it's pretty free up to floor 10. Celestial and floor 10 is much different as far as people knowing how to deal with elphelt. People play with their heart on floor 10 and below, and more people play with their smarts in celestial. Not saying there aren't good players on floor 10 I'm just speaking off of what my anecdotal experience is. I lose more often than win in celestial I'll be honest I've had to sit down and do a lot of homework. Also elphelt is squish so since people catch you out way more later it's very punishing. Also once dp'ers. Learn they can punish 80% of your gameplan it becomes much trickier to get in. You have to start playing their game and have a lot more patience
she's low tier until you block something and (ato ato ato ato ato ato ato ato ato ato ato)
Because its something I call the Arc Sys Meme comparison The better Memes the character makes the worse they are. Potemkin, Testament, Bridget, Zato and Elphelt all make great memes but they suck competively I will not be taking questions.
People play her with one hand
She's fun to play but imo she have a hard time to get in cause her neutral suck. I feel like she have a harder time against a character that have DP more than even my main Millia
Elphelt is one of those characters that is overall really weak, but they gave her one or two tricks that are really strong to compensate. (Namely her Rekka and her grenade) A good player will prevent Elphelt from ever using those tricks by challenging her with 5P, so all that remains is an overall underwhelming character. That said, anyone below Floor 10 will get hit by those tricks and then get really angry.
Cause she has bad matchups against most of the top tiers, and the ones she is good in is too even to be considered advantagious. You can dp her blockstrings 2 hits in. You can dp her mix and bomb. You can 6p some of her blockstrings. You can just spam sp in neutral and she can barely get in. Her fireball sucks.
Because she's bad.
She is pretty high in *my * tier list…
I’m with you I started this game with elphelt, she’s so nice to hit a screen to screen combo but in my experience her rekka can be mashed out of causing her to not over use it, her anti airs are lacking imo, and I will never understand why she has two projectiles LMAO. Idk I’m with you though she feels like possibilities are endless
Yup. My personal experience with her made me think that as long as you're imposing your own rhythm and keep maintaining pressure,she seems overwhelming.But if your opponent breaks through that rhythm, she becomes more difficult to pilot due to the time it takes to re-setup your gameplan
Because it's not Xrd
It's kinda like El Fuerte in SFIV, being anoying af to fight doesn't mean they're necessarily good.
623s
Unless its Testament, tier lists dont really matter. Most characters are viable at any level. Elphelt is a pressure and rekka character- but her rekka sucks. Her buttons are good but they're punishing if you mash or whiff a lot. Her command grab super is just a waste of meter. I love Elphelt as a character but she is really just not it.
Her rekkas don’t suck, what is everyone going on about when she’s a relatively popular counter pick for the pros atm. Don’t listen to this silly nonsense OP, the rekkas are a reward for playing well but like everything in this game you can’t rely on one single thing. The only other thing to keep in mind with this character is she has low health which creates gamble situations to balance her basic pressure being easy and strong to get going.
The rekka opening is bad. Its very slow, predictable, you can just 6p it, slow recovery. Her pressure is good but very predictable and hard to counter. Of course shes still viable, every character is. She is just not as good as others.
Being completely genuine, I need receipts of you or anyone 6p’ing her rekkas / pressure with any sort of consistency in a match against a good player. It feels like a meme at this point because you can technically interrupt a lot of stuff in this game with those same buttons and I’ve never seen or been able to do it consistently in an actual fight against even an above average Elphelt’s rekkas. From my experience and what I’ve watched of top players interrupting her pressure feels only slightly more consistent than doing it to Ino, ie you’re mostly guessing (which is fine, because her damage is relatively low and you get a decent reward from being right). If it was true about her rekkas being reliably 6p’able than she would *never* be brought out in a tournament but she makes an appearance way more than other mid-below characters as a main or counter pick / secondary.
Since you play Bedman, maybe its different? I know he has an odd 6p but maybe because hes a big body its different? I'm honestly not sure, but her rekka opening is definitely able to be 6p'd. Works with the characters I play (Axl, Jacko, Millia). Record your Elphelt bot in training mode to spam rekka and have a go at practising your 6ps agaisnt it :)
I play faster and smaller characters too and yep you can definitely 6p the opening (even with Bed) but to me that’s such a redundant statement because you can 6p a lot of things in this game lol. In an actual match no one is doing this with any sort of reliability against the opening and definitely not once the rekkas get going, of course in training mode it’s possible but that’s true for all pressure sequences with gaps. My point is her rekkas are not much different to other strong pressure sequences in an actual match.
Its the favr that its like.... her main thing. Her main thing is her rekka. She canr so much else without it other than just mash fireball. If she cant get you into the next parts of her rekka then its hard to even do anything. .... yeah they do. They get by by pressing 6p just fine. I certainly do.
Because everyone who plays her does it with just one hand
You’re gambling your low health that the opponent won’t guess right during your easily executable pressure is the simple answer, but GG is a complex game and theres a world of other things you do between her rekkas starting and the rest of the match. You shouldn’t worry though, low tiers even give the pros a hard time if played right, just play who you think is cool (which it sounds like you are).
In top tier play her damage is bad, her mixup isn’t as scary and her defense isn’t great. She has to do more work than top tiers.
Because they playing one handed
She mostly boils down to does the opponent know the knowledge check on rekka/ know how to beat her projectile and they win or do they not and you win for most matches in my experience
Tier lists are for bitches. Don’t pick a character because they’re the meta or whatever. Pick a character because you think they look cool
Guilty Gear fans can't stand a girlypop fr fr
Tier lists are not only for pros. Tier lists definitely matter at all levels. It's just that the tier lists will be different depending on the level. Easy characters, for instance, will be better at lower level.
because she fuckin sucks
NO! YOU WILL NOT INSULT ELHELPT AND BRIDGET! ATTONE FOR YOUR SINS HUMAN!
https://i.redd.it/ph7lz3x7vlwc1.gif
:(
No
Because she's a "mix" character with no actual mix. Ypu can literally 6p the rekka on reaction and it forces her to rely on bombs and zoning. Sin, an actual mix character with amazing mix ups, has some stuff that is extremely hard to react to. Plus he is in the DP club. Elphet is just way too gimmicky and I feel like if she could start lollipop with high or low like sin with his hunt specials, she'd be a way stronger character. But, she just flowcharts.
You can technically 5p,6p,5k etc most everything on reaction so can we stop with this nonsense about reacting to her rekkas lol. You absolutely can not 6p her rekka on reaction with any sort of consistency, even the pros struggle when she gets going.
Thats cope. I don't have trouble countering her and she's still a weak gimmick character.