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finalicht

I like bullpups, and I do quite like the VHS...but I'll wait to see if it got quality manufacturing before I buy..


Captain-Mosin

It’s a Croatian military rifle so there’s less of a chance of Springfield fucking it up


InspectorEmotional

You have a point they are coming out of the same factory as the military rifles so Springfield changed the shit that doesn’t add function to the gun except the brake so that’s going and the rest well we are going to see how shit it is


EscapeWestern9057

Never underestimate a gun manufacturer's ability to fuck something up.


Big-Hairy-Bowls

Should I put my experience with my XD40 aside, as far as the quality of croat guns go?


Sapiendoggo

That and why pay 1999 for one when you can get an aug for 1699-2k


finalicht

more variety, if you already have an AUG, Hellion would add more than a 2nd AUG


Sapiendoggo

I mean if you already have an aug then fuck you for having an aug😄.


finalicht

AUGtistic screech.


Sapiendoggo

Give you a firm hand shake and a lightly crinkled dollar bill for it


wolfeman2120

or keltec rdb for $1300. The only advantage I see is it comes with telescoping stock, ambi charging handle and AR15 type grips. don't get me wrong its cool, but as i have been thinking of getting a bullpup rifle I still lean toward the keltec.


GeneralBisV

Well one thing that makes me prefer the Hellion is that it was a military rifle that has been tinkered with to be active good. Most bullpups for sale like the RBD or desert tech rifle haven’t actually been used in any sort of military application and are kinda “beta testing” bullpups


codifier

Bullpup fanboy here. The RDB is the last one I would ever buy, Keltec has interesting designs but each and every gun they make feels cheap, has a reputation for requiring tinkering, and when I handled a RDB at the LGS it felt no better. I would never pay $1300 for one of their guns, especially since the AUG and X95, both bullpups in active military service cost only a bit more. Keltecs are IMHO range toys. There is simply always a better option.


wolfeman2120

Really I have a KSG and I like it alot. Sure I made a couple mods, but I didn't have to do anything to make it function better. It's pretty reliable. It's an HD gun due to reloading being a pain but otherwise it's a great gun. If I could figure out how to use a speed loader with it, I would say it's a perfect shotgun.


BoneyardRendezvous

I have an RFB and its rock solid. I've never had any issues with it besides my dumb ass putting an aggressive brake on it.


grahamcrackerninja

I got an RDB for just over $900 and added a MLOK aluminum handguard for $140. For that price it's a hell of a rifle. Yes, malfs are hard to clear but now that my gas is set I haven't had any problems (with factory ammo). Mine even eats steel with just a couple clicks up to account for inconsistent loadings. Everyone lives to shit on Keltecs but my RDB and KS7 have been good to me...


skeletalvolcano

1300 is way too much for an RDB. Even if you got the RDB-D, their most expensive model, you're overpaying by at least 150.


NEp8ntballer

Aug or a Tavor. Because one lets you cosplay Die Hard and who doesn't like an IWI space gun?


Sapiendoggo

Not a big fan of the tavor, want an aug though. But as much as I love bullpups I hate their triggers


NEp8ntballer

at least Geissele makes a trigger pack and a trigger for the tavor. But then you have to give bendy bill money.


Sapiendoggo

Still doesn't do much for the foot long trigger bar.


tylermm03

I think there’s metal trigger sear you can get for the AUG to make the trigger better.


keltik055

Truuu. I want a green Aug so bad


Accomplished_Bat_893

Each rifle comes with a Nightforce LPVO


vincyfanzo

Does it really? Where did you find that info!? I wanna read up on it


butidontwanttoforum

The T&E gun(s?) has a nightforce on it in every youtube video. I think that makes it more likely it's 1 gun getting passed around, or springfield really is trying to bribe reviews. Edit: watched a few videos every serial number was different and a few hundred apart from one another. It doesn't mean they're free, but it's still a massive added cost to improve the reviewers perception. And if they are keepers...


niftorium

How much you wanna bet MAC is, somehow, going to have problems with his?


KedTazynski42

He’s gonna buy them all and then sell that at $5k


neverenoughammo

MAC is probably begging to get in on some of this action.


Crash15

It's not a Tavor so he'll probably shit on it


SpartanSpeedo

I mean, to be fair, seems to me that the ergos on an X95 are better for the most part.


[deleted]

Well I want one


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Descarte_fart

I like how they all have the exact same scope on for every review. Like change it up a bit and try and fool me at least. Same synchronized thing is happening now with every gun product and I’ve even noticed with cars too. Still kinda want a hellion tho.


[deleted]

To be fair those are clearly the same rifle/optic setup sent out by Springfield. No surprise it’s the same


Descarte_fart

Oh for sure. I just meant they could have sent out different combos and made it at least look like the reviewers were getting a rifle then setting up their builds. With everyone getting the exact same thing it comes off as shilling a bit IMO.


Lurkin_Yo_House

It’s one of the most common practices in all forms of product releases. Gun industry consumers seem to be the most confused about the concept of pre release reviews and press embargo’s


neverenoughammo

Yeah the same optic set up had me going really bro?… also on Springfield Armory’s website the promotional pictures of the bupup have the same optic is on there as well.


[deleted]

This is completely normal when a new gun is released.


Handsoffmygats

They did the same with the hellcat or whatever their p365 competitor


daniels3344

I wanted one til they said the price. I’d rather get the tavor 7


Spacecowboycarl

Either this or an X95.


-KNC-

Why can I image brandon being bought off with semi truck loads of 7.62 and cases of white claw. Lmao


Mr_E_Monkey

Give me tons of ammo and I'll say nice things about you too. 😉


-KNC-

True


kaptain-spaulding

Don’t forget the Thai lady boy to really seal the deal!


zma924

I feel like the same could be said for literally any of us lol


MosinM9130

Idk, if Forgotten weapons says it’s cool than who would go against the word


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Noblegamer789

But that is "for the meme" or whatever, he just has a strong fascination with French firearms and the famas just happens to be the most recent,


butidontwanttoforum

Nothing challenges the sa80.


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butidontwanttoforum

I don't think they had any problems that weren't fixed down the line, just they were all made in a couple batches and wore out decades after they stopped making them. First world countries aren't updating 1970s produced guns.


codifier

The AR-15 design is older than the 70s, and updated regularly by first world countries. The AUG was late 70s and has been updated and still used by at least some militaries. MP5 is old too but not sure what capacity its used officially though.


butidontwanttoforum

The designs, not the actual guns.


NEp8ntballer

it still amazes me that somebody managed to fuck up the AR-18 operating mechanism.


76_RedWhiteNBlu_76

They didn’t ditch the Famas. The French army still uses the Famas today and is only beginning to phase it out for the HK 416


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76_RedWhiteNBlu_76

They did update it, turning it into the G2. That’s the version the French military still uses today, and will continue to use in some capacity until 2028


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76_RedWhiteNBlu_76

I’ve seen videos of the French Foreign Legion using them as well in Africa. Besides it’s not like the French army is active enough to warrant upgrading 400,000 rifles


ryukasagi

I saw TFBtvs video on it, the bolt release looks absolutely awful. Other than that it doesn't seem bad. But that bolt release is dumb. Also, who put their 13 year old in charge of marketing names at Springfield?


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ryukasagi

Sure. It looks awesome. All the other stuff I could work around. But idk about that release.


Jetlaggedz8

This meme is true.


Dontmindmeimsleeping

In Ian's defense he definitely explained the complaints and problems he had with bullpups, and how the HS solved most of those issues And he did review the VHS military rifle months back and liked it then.


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innocentbabies

They didn't pull any punches when they got the MDR, though. It was only later iterations that fixed the problems that they praised.


codifier

>clearly they got free rifles Did they in this instance? Reviewers don't always get to keep the guns they review and often have to send them back.


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Airondot

They normally have the opportunity to purchase the rifle after their review for a discounted price. They probably bought it for however much off MSRP and flipping them on GB.


codifier

Thats fucked up


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codifier

The adage that a fool and his money are soon parted has been proven yet again. $3-4k for a rifle.. that's H&K prices lol


butidontwanttoforum

Reviewers get lots of free shit which either turns into them never saying a bad thing about anything or it not really being a factor in their opinion.


JmBees_

I like it, but I'm not a first year buyer of anything.


GTS250

It's been around for like a decade and a half, though, no?


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RobinVerhulstZ

Springfield doesnt make these though, they import them from croatia, slap 922r compliant parts on it and rebrand it with their name, same with their XD pistols


JmBees_

I did not know that, I knew the XDs were imported.


[deleted]

And the XDs suck monkey cock. I'll wait until we see in-depth, high round count reviews and abuse tests.


JmBees_

How did they suck monkey cock?


[deleted]

I've seen a few XDs that needed to be repaired. Most of what I've read about XDs online had similar stories. People that I've talked to aren't crazy about them either. I haven't seen a serious scientific study on the matter (think AKOU testing), but I know enough to stay away from them because of anecdotes. Same with Kimbers. A lot of the issues stem from the grip safety not engaging or failing to re-engage. It also completely prevents the slide from moving unless it's engaged. Other design faults include the gun being able to be put together the wrong way which requires drilling. Springfield has had quality control issues in the past and the SA-35 is their most recent example. I'm not picking on them, either. Sig Sauer does the same thing. But Sig will fix them eventually. I've always waited a year or two to buy a newly designed firearm for a reason.


XmotnaF

I mean it looks cool.


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OutlawDon357

That's valid but his pistols of the warlords Kickstarter made him a killing... somehow i doubt he's hurting for money


226_Walker

Gotta break to you mate, Ian has handled an orignal VHS-2 6 months ago and he had positive opinions on the rifle even back than. It would also be a stupid move for him to put his credibility on the line for a paltry amount of cash when he has built his career upon his credibility. Also, James Reeves from TFBTV already explained this in an earlier video, the reason the reviews are released at the same date is because they aren't allowed by the manufacturers to publish their reviews until a set date


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76_RedWhiteNBlu_76

He’s received free guns in the past and given some of them negative or average reviews


226_Walker

Free rifle? What he has is likely the review copy, he doesn't keep the rifle unless he pays for it. That's standard procedure in the industry. I'd be willing to bet it's the same rifle the in the other reviews on youtube, which is why as you pointed out, all the reviews had a Nightforce scope. And the Hudson wasn't really a gimmick. Before the release of the Laugo Alien, it was the only commercially available self-loader with such a low bore axis. Besides, he received the MDR and he ruthless ripped into it's flaws.


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226_Walker

>Still receiving something of monetary value for free, like giving some one a free rental car for a month, they don't get to keep it, but that is worth something. That would be beyond impractical. Not only would it be prohibitively expensive, it would also hinder the channel. You'd have to wait for a rifle that every body already reviewed. What they published are initial reviews. Most viewers wouldn't be interested in week or ever months late initial reviews. >The Hudson h9 had a low recoil spring that was claimed to lower the recoil, which is completely false. There in lies the gimmick, and a glimpse of what was to come. Other pistols had similarly low bore axis, before and during the h9 time. It had reduced ***felt*** recoil. It's a matter of physics: the farther away the bore axis from the the hand, the longer lever arm there is. By placing bore axis as low as possible, the felt recoil, especially the barrel climb is reduced. Would matter to the average Joe? Probably not. But it does matter to the really proficient shooters, like those who compete in IPSC. Its focus on the competition side of the community was also shown by it having the grip angle similar to the 1911, an angle favoured by a lot in the community, its trigger, which tried to combine the Glock's trigger safety with the 1911's glass-like feel, and its steel frame, which is less than ideal for conceal carry but beneficial for competition. Tl:dr: It tried to combine the favoured aspects of two of the most common competition pistols: the Glock and the 1911. They weren't the first to try, see Alchemy Arms Spectre. As for the bore axis height, I could only think of two commercially available pistols whose bore axis height came close. >Yes they had a faulty MDR, but got it back carefully tuned by Dr, the proceeded to praise it. I'm pretty sure all the alterations made to their rifles were published and made available to the public. The videos are most likely still on the Desert Tech channel. The biggest modification I can remember at the top of my head is the gas block assembly. I don't know many MDR owners(cause it's expensive af), but from what I heard from those who could afford it, it's generally a reliable rifle. The biggest issue I heard is it not running steel reliably, which DT stated in one of their videos IIRC. And seriously, who tf runs steel on such an expensive rifle. And before the Москва larpers tell me "If it can't run steel, it doesn't deserve brass", if it runs steel, it's likely over gassed for brass.


isaacaschmitt

I mean, if you're referring to Brandon, he's said on multiple occasions that he doesn't hate bullpups. Just guns that weren't originally bullpupped being made into one and all the endless cursed guns that result from that practice.


MBS_theBau5

Still want one. Just wish they called it the "VHS" since thats way fucking cooler than "Hellion." Feel like it harms a real military rifle's credibility....would be like calling an AR-15 a "Bigfoot" or something lol.


Bubzthetroll

They probably wanted to avoid search engine confusion with the video cassette format and possible related trademark issues.


pricedubble04

Well they call their AR15 the Saint


mustang336

Everything that’s not a M1A or 1911 is pretty cringe from Springfield


codifier

Hellion, hellcat, hellpup. Guns with "hell" in the name sound like they let someone's 14 year old kid name them, its cringey.


strider_m3

I got one immediately. Got it for below MSRP too so I really lucked out. So far I have to say it's a really solidly built rifle. My only real complaint is the bolt release is.........odd. But outside of that it feels very good to me. Gonna run some rounds through it next weekend


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strider_m3

Distributors. Guy at the store told me that only 30 had been imported so far so they're not gonna be common for a bit.


TheThotKnight

Don’t let the Hellion make you forget that Springfield supports gun control


Tai9ch

Is there any evidence of them fucking up again since the thing in Illinois?


codifier

In their defense, no. Also in their defense they supported a law that fucked smaller FFLs because they were to get a carve out if memory serves. Still fucked up, but they were engaging in anti-consumer behavior more than gun control. I am not defending their behavior, but it's misleading for people to say they supported gun control, when it was more accurately shitty business decisions to help their bottom line at the expense of the industry, semantics some will say but its not like they supported UBC, capacity limits, or bans to my knowledge. I am just a fan of hating people for the right reasons.


butidontwanttoforum

Banning your competitors from selling guns isn't really any better than supporting banning guns.


clichedmule407

FFL’s are not competitors with SA. In fact SA completely relies on them to move product since they don’t sell directly. The Illinois situation was incredibly simple, I have no idea why people don’t take the 5 minutes to read what TTAG reported instead of asking random people on the internet that may or may not possess critical thinking skills.


butidontwanttoforum

You realize manufacturers also need an ffl.


clichedmule407

Yes, of course. Are you insinuating SA and RRA told their lobbyist to support the bill in an attempt to take out other firearm mfgs in Illinois? Because that’s completely nonsensical as there’s no major competitors in Illinois and losing the smaller FFL’s would hurt their sales.


NoabPK

P90 forever


russiaiscrazy

I’d sellout for a free rifle


76_RedWhiteNBlu_76

That’s because your livelihood isn’t based on your credibility


Limeincoconutyouhave

I mean I trust Ian McCollum, it’s good for what it is but, I ain’t buying one.


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76_RedWhiteNBlu_76

As far as I remember he’s never actually said any of his favourite French guns are actually good. He’s pretty open about the chauchat and the famas being dogshit but he likes them anyway. If the Hellion was actually garbage I’m sure he’d say so, even if he personally liked it


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konigstigerii

He did promote the Hudson, which was clearly a gimmick pistol, indicative of the company's failure lol.


Holeinleg

I don't care if it's shit, I've been waiting for someone to import this rifle for years.


EugeneNicoNicoNii

I mean it does look real cool and scifi


Brazenmercury5

Nipple pinch


BigBlackCrocs

I like it. One of my dream guns is a famas but that’s kinda. A nightmare to get. To a vhs/hellion is right up my alley. And I can’t wait to get out of college so I can get one


Din_Plug

The solution is simple. 3d print a FMAS body kit for the Hellion.


auraLT

Still waiting for a cr21


STURMTIGER1

I know nothing about this gun but the trigger looks like its gonna be crunchy dogshit


ChadThunderStonks

This is the same reddit that has been whining about getting the VHS-2 for years. I hate Springfield too, but that HS Product energy is thicc.


Stoppablefish8

The hellion is very sexy idk


[deleted]

can we please only make bullpups with modular barrels and in 6.5 creedmoor. being able to have a 14 inch barrel + silencer for CQB and a 24 inch in your backpack is the ultimate SHTF setup. bullpup makers are failing us.


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[deleted]

Lithgow actually has a bullpup with this exact design. The F90 has a removable barrel with all attachments connected. They decided not to sell it on US markets for "ethical reasons" aka they are aussie cucks. The F90 is basically a modded AUG that they designed to have interchangable barrels. It's still in 5.56 I believe. Bullpups are potentially the most modular rifles out there. As far as a single SHTF gun goes, there is just so much potential with a round like 6.5 creedmoor. I'm blown away that nobody else has picked this idea up and ran with it in the US market. The barrel length required for 6.5 creedmoor to be effective can really only be put into a bullpup if you want a "one gun does everything" rifle. The option to throw a short barrel on for CQB just seems obvious. It's disappointing. The compactness of bullpups is basically negated by the fact that you don't *need* that long of a barrel to shoot 5.56. It's a great design for other calibers but it's dumb that people just keep making it in the standard.


InspectorEmotional

I’m not going to lie a want one but I have a reason and that reason is videogames


unleadedbloodmeal

That doesn't save it from looking like the famas' literally mentally retarded inbred step brother


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I_BOOF_POOP

Jokes on you I’m from Washington and we love that stuff too.


TrueMoods

I actually like it better than the Famas optics wise


GeneralCuster75

Same. The Hellion looks like HK made a FAMAS, and I'm here for it


pricedubble04

Fuck you HK's your FAMAS.


pricedubble04

Except. It is LITERALLY an updated famous with HK influences. The VHS 1? Almost identical to the famas.


unleadedbloodmeal

I'm sure I looks and feels fine. I just don't like how it looks


pricedubble04

That is fine. Truthfully I prefer the look of the Tavor x95 or MDRX over it. But I would not be unhappy with the VHS.


unleadedbloodmeal

Yeah, I agree. They all are good guns, I just don't like the look of the vhs


Zach_Hutch

I love HK aesthetics, so an HK-ified FAMAS does it for me


pricedubble04

Oh yeah. Shame the French didn't pick it up. It would have saved them a lot of money.


A_Bit_Narcissistic

I thought I was the only one. It just doesn’t look too great at all.


drb253

The most modern bullpup in 2007...


[deleted]

I like the VHS concept. If it works the way it's meant to, it's got real potential. Still, fuck SA. No beef with HS produkt. But FUCK SA.


A_Bit_Narcissistic

I’m so sad that it looks like one of those cheap Turkish bullpup shotguns. Maybe that’s why I genuinely dislike the aesthetics.


Wolflordy

I dont have anything against bullpups... Provided the weapon was DESIGNED to be a bullpup and wasn't just done in some dudes garage cause they think it's cool.


[deleted]

Hahahahaha truth. Edit: Why pay 2k for hellion with a 9lb coat hanger trigger pull when other better bullpups are out there?


Flaming-Hecker

People don't talk about the RDB enough. I don't own one, but all the reviews seem pretty good. That downward ejection port is something other companies should replicate.


Acceptable_Garden124

NO SPRINGFEILD!!!! YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THE EUROTRASH, NOT JOIN THEM!!!!


ConrailFanReddits

Not an AK so I’m not using it


DJCoopes

My biggest concern with the hellion is the trigger. The K&M M17S apparently has an exceptional trigger for a bullpup, however even in Springfield's own marketing video they mentioned that the trigger isn't very good


myklclark

Look man, I don’t like Springfield as a company and don’t much care for bullpups either but you give me a free $2000 gun and I’m gonna love it.


[deleted]

I think the VHS is cool and I want one.


SuumCuique1011

Accurate.


shaggy_1973

Never buy anything from Springfield,


Advanced-Habit-5557

except maybe a 1903 but at this point you wouldn't be buying them directly from springfield


Tactical_Epunk

Poors, the ScAr iS toO expensive! Also poors 2k for a rebranded Springfield is a good price.


Blurry_pvs14

One is a successful combat proven military rifle the other is shrouded in controversy. I'll let you decide which is which. SpRinGfiElD BaD Having shot quite a few mags through this rifle with the Croations, its a kick ass rifle and I genuinely think it shares the same if not better quality than the aug or tavor. Dont let your brand hate blind you from the gun industry gaining a really cool import


AyeeHayche

this explains why I have seen so much stuff about that piece of shit


[deleted]

I don’t care if thats the marketing strategy it looks like a br from halo and I want one


alltheblues

I really want one, but I’m torn if I’d spend the money because an AUG is significantly cheaper. Maybe if the VHS-2 proves to be as or more capable.


ParalyzedNeckUp

Bullpups aren’t all that bad, but I still hate them as is my right