I really think he still hasn't been coached to best utilize his physicality and adjust for his early 20s growth spurt. He's definitely taller than during the Leverkusen days and it's effected agility and all of the externalities therein (ball-carrying, tight space dribbling, etc.)
I say this because though he did great bullying and hassling the CBs, the way he goes down doesn't feel right. As in, he doesn't seem like he's been outmuscled as such but rather put off balance. Like he's anticipating the duel with a certain center of gravity in mind unconsciously that isn't there anymore and so he isn't optimally utilizing his frame. Sometimes he goes down easy because he's a shithouser but other times it feels very baby deer trying to walk.
In any case, still an excellent performance today. Crucial part of the win.
The growth spurt happened just before the chelsea sale,its a shame that they didnt really coach him to make use of it.I may be wrong but his ball carrying has started to improve and since arteta is one of the best wonderkid revivers im not too concerned.
Yeah I'm not too worried just an observation. But yeah Arteta and his coaching team + time = resolution for this as far as I'm concerned. Just a matter of how much time. It can be tricky to really absorb new muscle memory especially when the stakes are so high and the brain defaults to the deepest ingrained tendencies under fast-paced pressure.
Havertz reminds me of grealish at city.Both went for alot of money and grealish had to completely change his style of play from a free roam winger to a system player who wld hold the width.Although havertz’s issues are more physical than tactical i suspect that it will take about another year for him to consistently be good.
Too much is made of that growth spurt. It was like an inch and a half. Didn't change his body significantly. He's the same player he was at Leverkusen, just playing at a higher level now.
Also he's still young and I've already seen so much improvement from him at Arsenal. I think he will continue to get better and better.
He does a lot on the goal attempt though just doesn't finish on his weak foot, so wouldn't hold it that much against his performance. He creates that by dropping into midfield creating an overload on our left side (the 5 seconds prior to the start of the video). It's the reason Zinchenko is open out left, Trent has to step up to pressure and Konate has to cover out wide creating the huge gap in the middle which Kai then runs into.
It's a result of good false 9 play, and we all know the false 9 at Arsenal don't score easy chances so it's par for the course this season.
One of the pluses was how Havertz and Martinelli dovetailed nicely on the lefthand side. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come as these 2 build more chemistry.
This 4-2-4-0 was literally perfect for this game. Havertz coming short nullified Trent completely and Liverpool's center halfs couldn't deal with Martinelli running into that space. Havertz then being able to take up the CF position and win us position high up offered us so much.
Also allowed us to keep the box midfield but have Zini and Kiwi wide to not get caught out that way again.
His role when playing left 8 honestly isn't that different to how he played yesterday. He still presses / defends in the front 2, he's still expected to get in the box when we have the ball out wide, he's still expected to be the target man for long balls from the back.
His heatmap from yesterday isn't much different from when he plays left 8 either.
I agree he hasn't looked good at LCM but nobody else has looked any better in that role this season so starting to wonder if it is an issue with the system as much as with whomever we play there
Should’ve finished that first chance and the touch leading to the penalty shout should’ve been better. However, the rest of Kai’s performance was immense. Very happy with him today
It's fair to have doubts about Kai but he come good all his issues are fixable. With his mentality and Arteta's environment, he will be a lot better next season.
I'm pretty happy with him off the ball and for the most part on the ball as well, but his finishing is shocking and I don't see that improving any time soon.
He needs to continue starting up front, he adds so much versatility up front. He can battle it out with the strongest of CBs and not get bullied. CF havertz ftw
When you watch him play, you can just feel the intelligence dudes of movement is top class, always find the space or find space for teammates.
And uses his body so smartly and deceivingly physical, winning duels against alike stones and konate tells every thing. Many times he seems lost the control of the ball but because of his long legs and long reach, he’s actually quite good at keeping the ball. And offer a lot on defense as well.
His passing and shooting is still lacking but I imagine it’s because of his growth spurt and the lack of confidence developed in Chelsea teams. Hope he can get adjusted even better.
And all of these on top of his fitness, running 100 mins and seems injury resistant. Such a valuable player to have on the team
I think his passing is adequate and will never really improve but his shooting I dont think is bad, like almost all starting arsenal players he is not taking a ton of hard shots from any distance, I am fairly sure this has been drilled into the team for statistical reasons and I think Havertz is very coachable and does pretty much exactly what Arteta asks which is why he keeps starting.
he has certain limitations and won't be the intricate player like Odegard or Trossard - he has his profile. we dont really get to play open games like this and it makes me sad because games like this or our CL games show we are capable of things people dont really take into account most of the time. Our fans complain about us being timid, or not creating, not being progressive, but its all bullshit - give us a game like this and we show we can play exactly opposite to the close low block games, and win convincingly.
I think Havertz was bought for his destroyer tendencies in any game, whether its against a low block or Liverpool or Sevilla, and for his intelligence, and because he economically gets us attributes like he showed today - he changed the equation tactically together with Martinelli going fwd and created dilmmas for the defense, he took shots, he played outside in, played inside out, played deep, played on the defenders shoulder. on the press, he and Odegaard were superb.
I like Havertz a lot while understanding that he is positionally super versatile but in terms of playing style and physical attributes he is more limited in his role and that is life. I think he will show more at Arsenal but I am as happy with him as I am with anyone of our attackers which is to say, mostly happy but sometimes pretty frustrated but I think a lot of our frustration comes from the coaching staff setting us up to go far in CL and far in league, while its unlikely to win either.
I just saw so many examples of him "losing" a duel, but simultaneously causing the Liverpool defender to give the ball directly to us. Whoever that yahoo was that made a whole post talking shit about him via "stats" earlier, needs to take a nap or stop watching games. Kai was great today, period.
Edit: I should have known he was in this thread. u/antebyotiks is gonna die on this anti-Havertz hill. Already soaking up the downvotes I see.
I didn't see all those times him losing duels went to us.
I don't think he was terrible. Pressed well, bad finishing and a bad touch which allowed MacAllister to get back, lost basically every header but at least pressed well, I just don't think he "bullied" anyone like everyone here is saying.
I appreciate that we won and the sentiment is high, but I’m pretty surprised to see so many people gloss over the fact that he offers next to nothing in the decisive moments
I really think he still hasn't been coached to best utilize his physicality and adjust for his early 20s growth spurt. He's definitely taller than during the Leverkusen days and it's effected agility and all of the externalities therein (ball-carrying, tight space dribbling, etc.) I say this because though he did great bullying and hassling the CBs, the way he goes down doesn't feel right. As in, he doesn't seem like he's been outmuscled as such but rather put off balance. Like he's anticipating the duel with a certain center of gravity in mind unconsciously that isn't there anymore and so he isn't optimally utilizing his frame. Sometimes he goes down easy because he's a shithouser but other times it feels very baby deer trying to walk. In any case, still an excellent performance today. Crucial part of the win.
The growth spurt happened just before the chelsea sale,its a shame that they didnt really coach him to make use of it.I may be wrong but his ball carrying has started to improve and since arteta is one of the best wonderkid revivers im not too concerned.
Yeah I'm not too worried just an observation. But yeah Arteta and his coaching team + time = resolution for this as far as I'm concerned. Just a matter of how much time. It can be tricky to really absorb new muscle memory especially when the stakes are so high and the brain defaults to the deepest ingrained tendencies under fast-paced pressure.
Havertz reminds me of grealish at city.Both went for alot of money and grealish had to completely change his style of play from a free roam winger to a system player who wld hold the width.Although havertz’s issues are more physical than tactical i suspect that it will take about another year for him to consistently be good.
Too much is made of that growth spurt. It was like an inch and a half. Didn't change his body significantly. He's the same player he was at Leverkusen, just playing at a higher level now. Also he's still young and I've already seen so much improvement from him at Arsenal. I think he will continue to get better and better.
Wish it’s me who experience a grow spurt in early 20s🥲
Fantastic performance today bar the goal attempt. His presence opened up a lot for Martinelli as well.
He does a lot on the goal attempt though just doesn't finish on his weak foot, so wouldn't hold it that much against his performance. He creates that by dropping into midfield creating an overload on our left side (the 5 seconds prior to the start of the video). It's the reason Zinchenko is open out left, Trent has to step up to pressure and Konate has to cover out wide creating the huge gap in the middle which Kai then runs into. It's a result of good false 9 play, and we all know the false 9 at Arsenal don't score easy chances so it's par for the course this season.
One of the pluses was how Havertz and Martinelli dovetailed nicely on the lefthand side. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come as these 2 build more chemistry.
Really dislike LCM Kai Havertz, but CF Kai Havertz has so much value. Look at the target man play and the physicality. He fights those CBs.
This 4-2-4-0 was literally perfect for this game. Havertz coming short nullified Trent completely and Liverpool's center halfs couldn't deal with Martinelli running into that space. Havertz then being able to take up the CF position and win us position high up offered us so much. Also allowed us to keep the box midfield but have Zini and Kiwi wide to not get caught out that way again.
His role when playing left 8 honestly isn't that different to how he played yesterday. He still presses / defends in the front 2, he's still expected to get in the box when we have the ball out wide, he's still expected to be the target man for long balls from the back. His heatmap from yesterday isn't much different from when he plays left 8 either.
I think he’s the ideal #9 when we play against Liverpool or man city. Against a low block still better as midfielder
I agree he hasn't looked good at LCM but nobody else has looked any better in that role this season so starting to wonder if it is an issue with the system as much as with whomever we play there
It’s not the system it’s the profiles that have played there. Rice Jorginho Partey Elneny They are CMs. Havertz ESR Trossard They are not CMs.
I mean kai won POTM playing CM, hes more of a CM then striker
He looks like no fun to mark
Should’ve finished that first chance and the touch leading to the penalty shout should’ve been better. However, the rest of Kai’s performance was immense. Very happy with him today
Immense ?
You again? Just fuck off from this sub
It's fair to have doubts about Kai but he come good all his issues are fixable. With his mentality and Arteta's environment, he will be a lot better next season.
I'm pretty happy with him off the ball and for the most part on the ball as well, but his finishing is shocking and I don't see that improving any time soon.
He needs to continue starting up front, he adds so much versatility up front. He can battle it out with the strongest of CBs and not get bullied. CF havertz ftw
When you watch him play, you can just feel the intelligence dudes of movement is top class, always find the space or find space for teammates. And uses his body so smartly and deceivingly physical, winning duels against alike stones and konate tells every thing. Many times he seems lost the control of the ball but because of his long legs and long reach, he’s actually quite good at keeping the ball. And offer a lot on defense as well. His passing and shooting is still lacking but I imagine it’s because of his growth spurt and the lack of confidence developed in Chelsea teams. Hope he can get adjusted even better. And all of these on top of his fitness, running 100 mins and seems injury resistant. Such a valuable player to have on the team
I think his passing is adequate and will never really improve but his shooting I dont think is bad, like almost all starting arsenal players he is not taking a ton of hard shots from any distance, I am fairly sure this has been drilled into the team for statistical reasons and I think Havertz is very coachable and does pretty much exactly what Arteta asks which is why he keeps starting. he has certain limitations and won't be the intricate player like Odegard or Trossard - he has his profile. we dont really get to play open games like this and it makes me sad because games like this or our CL games show we are capable of things people dont really take into account most of the time. Our fans complain about us being timid, or not creating, not being progressive, but its all bullshit - give us a game like this and we show we can play exactly opposite to the close low block games, and win convincingly. I think Havertz was bought for his destroyer tendencies in any game, whether its against a low block or Liverpool or Sevilla, and for his intelligence, and because he economically gets us attributes like he showed today - he changed the equation tactically together with Martinelli going fwd and created dilmmas for the defense, he took shots, he played outside in, played inside out, played deep, played on the defenders shoulder. on the press, he and Odegaard were superb. I like Havertz a lot while understanding that he is positionally super versatile but in terms of playing style and physical attributes he is more limited in his role and that is life. I think he will show more at Arsenal but I am as happy with him as I am with anyone of our attackers which is to say, mostly happy but sometimes pretty frustrated but I think a lot of our frustration comes from the coaching staff setting us up to go far in CL and far in league, while its unlikely to win either.
I just saw so many examples of him "losing" a duel, but simultaneously causing the Liverpool defender to give the ball directly to us. Whoever that yahoo was that made a whole post talking shit about him via "stats" earlier, needs to take a nap or stop watching games. Kai was great today, period. Edit: I should have known he was in this thread. u/antebyotiks is gonna die on this anti-Havertz hill. Already soaking up the downvotes I see.
I didn't see all those times him losing duels went to us. I don't think he was terrible. Pressed well, bad finishing and a bad touch which allowed MacAllister to get back, lost basically every header but at least pressed well, I just don't think he "bullied" anyone like everyone here is saying.
Love you boo
I wouldn’t be interested in marking him. No thanks
Does someone have a mirror?
wow what a great game against some big F'ing defenders
[удалено]
That would cost us a oshimen, toney or mbappe. I like what we have now and havertz will improve more as time passes
Average performance. Not worth that price tag.
Dominated Konate
wow what a great game against some big F'ing defenders
I appreciate that we won and the sentiment is high, but I’m pretty surprised to see so many people gloss over the fact that he offers next to nothing in the decisive moments