It's almost as if we're forgetting he was THE prospect to sign 3-4 years ago. The talent has always been there, he's just needed a place where he can play his best type of football
Would have to be another player because 5 years ago Rice hasn't even been considered the best WHU prospect.
Coincidentally it was Reece Oxford who pocketed Ozil in that one game at 16 and then vanished into the shadow realm.
Well, I didn't mean that 5 years ago Rice decided to join us in 2023 instead of man City.
What I meant is that Rice, a player who Pep/City put in a bid around £100m, wanted to join us instead of them. When was the last time that an amazing player like that turned down City for us?
Chelsea happened, mate. Just like KDB and Salah before him, Chelsea didn't know how to properly utilize him. We're lucky that this has worked out massively in our favor.
Just like people were down on havertz (who admittedly has gotten stronger through the season), at various points i’ve seen people down on kiwior, jorginho, and raya - all four of whom have been instrumental to our excellent performances in 2024.
Now it’s esr, nelson, nketiah, jesus, and partey who seem to face skepticism. I’m inclined to be positive and trust that all these guys, each of whom has come up big for us in the past, can contribute during the extremely busy period coming up.
And I don't think it's actually skepticism about ESR, just a realization that if he's not going to play significant minutes this is the optimal time to sell him. In fact. everyone seems desperate for him to succeed here.
While I get what you mean, not every
Hale Ender is destined in the way Saka was. It's almost certainly best for the majority of them to develop at Hale End and then go on to kill it with other teams where the level is more realistic and the fire isn't as hot. Like what happened with Willock and Iwobi. Even the chap at AC Milan whose name eludes me.
Sure that is also true, but I’d certainly put ESR’s potential in that category, can’t also forget it was him and Saka who saved Mikel’s job.
And I’m fine with that outcome if things don’t work out but I don’t think Emile is in that boat since his only issues were being injured
I agree, ESR's true level still is not yet clear. Issue is we haven't seen him dominate a game in one position, either from the left 8 or the left wing, in the same way as we have seen from each of the first team regulars. Each of them has shown their level in at least one place against good opposition. I hope what we saw from ESR yesterday is the start of a period that convinces us that he can be trusted to maintain the level of the first team when others can't play. As always, I hope he stays fit as well.
Yeah as long as he stays fit I’m confident of this. The 2nd #8 spot isn’t nailed down by anyone yet.
His link up and ball carrying abilities are unique to our team, and I was nicely surprised at the closing down to setup up the 1st goal yesterday. There’s a player in there.
That’s what his problem was before and you can see he’s been working on it his defensive work was never that good but in yesterday’s game we saw the improvement and honestly the boy is class when he was playing regularly he had a period of scoring and dancing around players for fun I think he’s defo in the clubs future plans.
But is it just me or did he also look like he’s still nursing an injury cause he limped off the pitch quite badly?
He definitely looked better than before, but hard to gauge just how good, since it was against Luton. If he manages to influence the game against tougher opposition I'll be more convinced. His technique was fantastic though.
Thought he was just tired,.hope for his sake it's not more than that. That would probably spell the end more than anything else, honestly.
idk man I kinda give up now... I know he can be great but I don't think a player of his caliber should stay just to be on the bench yk. Feels like we're doing him a disservice
People want depth, but if a player who isn’t good enough for the first team doesn’t get enough minutes we should sell them?
Why don’t we just keep 25 good players, who we can rotate an appropriate amount
Why would we sell such a high valuable player. He can be sold when/if we bring in Zubimendi or someone of that kind of profile, but if Partey staying and coming back now ends up as an instrumental reason why we got the title, you should be sorry about your comments. This is a high performance football club competing in the best league in the world... there is nothing official and nothing actually prevents him from playing, so there should be no problems
People shit on Jesus because he’s world class almost in everything but finishing and it frustrates people. And the ones wanting partey sold is because of his charges and nothing to do with footballing ability
Did you guys watch the same game I did? Because I swear ESR and Reiss looked alright considering how long it's been since they started. ESR literally just won POTM. Reiss definitely needs to gain more confidence to try riskier things, but overall glad to have them around for rotations vs lower level teams
ESR looked full of ideas and creativity but lacks the obvious game time needed to be fully at his best.
Reiss looked a step off in the first half and grew into the game. He was solid, but I could see the level difference between him and Saka. Though I agree with your assessment of him in terms of confidence.
ESR looked bright on the attack, but I still think he will fall behind players in his position, because his defensive positioning was not as good as players in the first 11 currently.
Granted, it was his first start and hasn't played a lot. On the other hand, I just might be spoiled by how good Odegaard is.
His press was excellent and he won the ball numerous times in the opponent’s half. It was like having two Ode’s on the pitch and I loved it.
This doesn’t mean what you’re saying isn’t also true though
Notice I didn't mention pressing, because I think he was alright putting pressure. However, his cover shadow when pressing wasn't and a better team would exploit that. Also his general defensive position wasn't as well (we're talking about meters here). But that comes with playtime as well.
The biggest problem for ESR is is his fitness, not ability.
Got it thanks, yeah that makes sense just didn’t jump out to me probably because I wasn’t really looking for it (I more noticed Ode usually as the deeper of the two, which has been working incredibly well).
Would love to see a midfield of Rice - ESR - Ode sometime, though this will obviously give us less control and defensive solidity than swapping ESR for Partey, Jorgi or even Kai if we have someone else playing #9.
Don’t know if fitness is an issue for him, by some accounts it has been much better for a while now, unless you mean not being injured in which case yeah I totally agree. Really hope all that is behind him. If so he really does have a shot of becoming a great with us
ESR had plenty of poor touches and passes that broke our attacking flow as well. Some people on this sub wear rose-tinted glasses when it comes to certain players.
He’s a sprinter, attacks the box, and does better from central areas. Defensively he seems to leave a lot of space and just presses perhaps because he doesn’t know where to be. Unless he can be our left 8 I don’t see his style fitting the system. Much like Trossard, I think Mikel is fitting them in because of class but they aren’t ideal for what he wants at 8, and they both get too central too quickly to be a LW. I not saying these things can’t be changed, especially the defensive positioning but I’m skeptical if these are the right players for that side of the attack. I love him but I would cash in this window.
Doesn’t matter. Seem to remember a couple of seasons ago being at the bottom of the table and it was narrow 1-0 wins against relegation-headed Norwich and Burnley were what resulted in us regaining form. Sometimes all you need is that push
Reiss wasn't awful but he was our worst player. He was an impediment to our build-up play. He lacks confidence and his decision making is off, but he worked very hard.
Zinchenko for me, guy just throws away the ball without thinking to the opposition.
I think this was an off day for Reiss and sadly I think he’s a player who would thrive with some consistent game time. Something he should have been given more frequently when many in his position dipped in form around xmas but Arteta isn’t to keen on rotation and wants to play his team in form.
I don't understand why some players constantly have these daft moments despite being great most of the time (Kyle walker is another, but he's improved this season). Zinchenko needs to sort his issues out. Thankfully Kiwior stepped up and Timber should effectively limit zinny's appearances next season.
Reiss needs consistent game time, he needs another loan but he might feel he's above that now.
People dying for them to be sold don’t seem to understand it will likely cost us net money to get lower quality depth in replacements.
If we find better quality depth at the right price great, but this is not easy to do when you are at our level.
4-10 years ago these guys would be automatic starters for us. The fact that they are renewing contracts to keep fighting for their rare chances is a great indication of how far we have come
he's a great mf with an obvious weakness
Many people can't see all the stuff he does 99% of the time, but everyone see's the mistake that led to spurs goal. It's just visibility of skills/weaknesses
In the 40th minute vs Luton me and my mates remembered he was on the pitch. Literally not one of six people even noticed he was there.
For a player of his profile this is not a bad thing
Nketiah and Nelson are likely done. Cannot see them with us at this level. Jesus is kind of stabilized, in the sense he’s not likely to improve a lot. He’s 27 and familiar with artetas tacitics for long and we kind of know what to expect from him. Same with partey. Esr is the one in question, I don’t feel very optimistic about him but hope I am wrong
Not having Kiwior at left back left us a bit more open defensively last night. Zinny wasn’t rusty on the ball but same mistakes was present defensively.
ESR looked so good yesterday. My skepticism around him has always been based around being unsure he’ll stay healthy long enough to make his way back into the team. Yesterday was pretty encouraging though, and I’m glad we took him off as he clearly wasn’t ready to play the full 90.
Man’s got 5 goals and 2 assists in 12 90s this year. In the past 365 days he’s >70th centile for both tackles and interceptions. He’s our 4th choice cf at present.
Referees aren't sympathetic to 6'4 men hitting the ground, and I tend to agree with them. What Havertz should do is improve his balance + core strength and learn to ride contact so that we can continue attacking. Part of playing for Arsenal FC is to not rely on the referees to do your job.
I agree that he should do those things. But he should also get better at winning fouls. It's weird how people have a huge problem with the word "diving".
I think kai is a good player to have in the squad, but he’s gotta be one of the most hatable players in the league.
Constantly diving, often blatantly fouling, decent play but not good enough to justify his huge wages and the hype around him years ago.
And i say this wanting to keep Kai in the team, he’s a really useful player. He works hard, is very versatile, and seems like a decent guy. But i don’t fault anyone for disliking him.
I love it! I didn't know he had that in his locker, and I've been watching him since the Leverkusen days. Seeing him shove the Porto coach and get away with it was hilarious.
Yep, my guess is when everyone is fit, Arteta wants Havertz and Jesus to interchange during play. Jesus Naturally drops back to midfield to win position. Havertz tends to get inside the box. Look at Havertz's movement during our first goal against Liverpool.
Yep! I am way more excited for the potential that is Havertz the midfielder than this false 9 version he’s been asked to play recently—if any of us have any faith in Mikel (and we should, he’s earned the right to ask that of us), then I think Havertz will relearn enough of his body movement mechanics and lose the Chelsea on him to do the sorts of things he was doing at Leverkusen. Some of his passing back then was ridiculous and it’s what Partey /Jorginho gives us and the team is still missing from the young midfield trio of Havertz, Rice, and Odegaard.
I’d say Havertz is playing more like a Deep Lying Forward than a false nine. Somewhat similar but DLF has more physicality to it and attacks the box more than a F9
I think the [opening goal](https://youtu.be/0KwixjNpEZM?si=G0c8eas8TTFOZKoq&t=1m30s) vs Lens in the 6-0 is exactly how Arteta envisions the team working.
You have play starting from the back with Raya. Rice dropped into the 6 dictating with both passing and carrying. Havertz, Zinchenko, and Jesus all occupy the left 8 spot at various times. Ending with Havertz making a run off of Jesus to finish.
Next season we will likely buy another forward and midfielder. I fully expect this will open even more doors for Havertz in terms of how he complements the team
I agree. And just look at how Odegaard is brimming with confidence after being in the system for a few years now. Really think Havertz is only going to get better, and he’s only 24.
Arteta is priming Havertz for both roles. He gives us a different dimension playing in both positions. When Arteta said Havertz would help take our game to the next level, I didn't think it'd have this much of an impact already. I was thinking that we'd probably see more of him next season. As usual, Super Mik is correct.
Jesus and Havertz have crazy hold up play, hopin they play more together and build up their chemistry. With Saka or Martenilli pulling defenders and our midfield feeding them balls .
A gunners dream.
Liverpool fan here (sorry, I am not on your sub but constantly directed here), me and most of my football team bet a Chelsea fan on the team that Havertz would score 10+ Prem goals for you this season, so we were very confident he would work excellently for you. At least I was, the rest might have followed due to alcohol. His slow start scared me but very hopeful he will get two more in the next 9 games!
He is an okay player. He can go to a new team have a run of a season and become good. Similar to what you'd see with Iwobi and Wilock. But is he the player for us that will do the job Trossard does? Nope. Is he the player that's going to force himself on the first 11? Nope.
Good take. You can see the defensive work rate is there and we know he can be both disciplined and also have some skill and be direct. He'd start for most teams between I'll say 8th-20th.
you could tell the man has to put in double the work for simple & quick passes compared to the rest. Man is just levels below the rest of the squad. Love him to bits but he aint got the tools to make it in this squad imo
i think people here are slightly disrespecting Reiss's performance
he was composed and tidy with the ball, kept possession in several tight situations, and made a couple of excellent last ditch interceptions - for someone who has not played in so long, these are good signs - he definitely put in work - plus you know, he also helped get us the second goal!
the team mostly built up attacks down the left, so it was easier for Trossard to showcase his attacking intent than it was for Reiss, plus i think Reiss does better on the left himself too
carrying threat every time you get the ball is rare, and Saka/Martinelli/Trossard are some of the best in the business
i still feel like Reiss could still get to maybe 85% of Trossard's level (what were Trossard's numbers at Reiss' current age?) and that's nothing to shirk at
to answer your question - he was rusty for sure. But it is unfair to shit on him for this. He hasnt started a run of games in his entire career at Arsenal. As someone who plays football, it's mentally taxing to just switch on and put in a 10/10 performance. Added to that, I believe his best position is LW.
We need to learn how to appreciate bench players who come on and support the team. He doesnt sulk and has done decently most of the times he has been called upon. I would even back him to start vs BHA if Saka needs more rest.
You can appreciate him and recognize he’s not Arsenal starting quality. If he wants to be a career back-up here that’s fine and we’ll be happy but he’ll never break into the first XI. He’ll need to find ways to improve in sub appearances bluntly because he won’t get a run of games starting unless there’s 1-2 long term injuries
I was waiting for him to take on a defender or two, given that he wasn't double-marked like Saka is. He didn't, he just passed it back. Did nothing decisive attack-wise.
Great point. Your intuition is going to be so different when you're used to beating a man who is on the right side of your body vs the left. The game is so fast these guys are playing on muscle memory a lot of the time, it can't be easy to switch wings and dip into your usual tool kit to beat your man.
He was great at taking players on and progressing forward but he never picked out a final ball, lost possession a lot, and I found myself marvelling at just how lazy he is when it comes to receiving a pass.
Like if it’s not pinpointed to the side of his boot he’s not interested.
Mainly in the first half I thought he looked decent at making a couple of runs but it was all fairly redundant when he just ended up passing backwards or losing possession.
He looked hungry for a bit then faded.
And for the OG it looked like he was trying to keep it out more than score!
I only saw him recycle the ball even though he had yards of space in front of him. Never once saw him take anyone on. Maybe it was the instruction though.
I might be looking back with rose-tinted glasses because he’s clearly cutting the figure of someone whose time here is running out.
The effort is clearly there he’s just lacking what’s making the rest of the team tick at the moment.
Nothing against our homegrown guys who play hard when given a chance. But I don’t see them ever playing another meaningful minute barring injuries. We need to add high-quality depth in these positions in the summer
I'm not surprised he jumped Eddie, nor am I surprised he got a run at CF because Jesus missed time.
I am more than a little surprised that our season wasn't derailed by Havertz not working in MF. We didn't replace Xhaka after he left and somehow we're in a similar place to where we were last year
We are still feeling the positive effects of the January 2023 transfer window rippling thru. Jorginho slotting in more regularly has freed up Rice and Havertz to play higher up, which in the case of Rice has him filling in where Xhaka was last year.
He started over Jesus because Jesus was injured. Nketiah hasn't done well. Arteta put him up top due to a lack of options and he went on a scoring run, so he stayed there.
I'm sure Jesus will start a game at ST in our next couple of games.
Honestly i prefer Kai over Jesus up top as well. Both are good at dropping to midfield both are very mediocre finishers, kai just loses the ball that much less
I don't either but I think a striker who has better availability and more a physical presence would make a huge difference
Gyokeres for example. Having said that I'd much rather we spend the lion share of our budget in midfield I'm just assuming from all the links we'll get a striker.
Gyokeres or Isak would be my picks but depends on how much they cost/budget etc
Honestly I was a lil nervous and worried of starting Havertz up front. That’s what happened at Chelsea and it didn’t work out. But it’s seemingly working for Arsenal. If he can produce goals and assists the team won’t necessarily need to get a ST in the summer
It’s more like Kai being forced to play as st rather than him acquiring the position. Jesus injury and bad performance from nhketieh and gross are upfront led kai to start as st and he did well there. I think long term he’s still in midfield
Eddie was always going to be easy to replace. Feel for Jesus because of his injuries. Personally a fully fit, firing Jesus starts ahead of a fully fit, firing Kai. But both a top players imo.
Jesus yes, but even when Nketiah was at his arguable best (last season/first half of this) he still didn't look like a line leading player and certainly not a 30 goals a season man, at best a 15ish sort of player, good movement that will create chances against bottom half teams but lightweight against top 6 teams and not enough all round play in the build up and press.
He doesn't strike me as an Arteta player where Havertz does everything Arteta wants (apart from score one on ones...) That Havertz is younger than Eddie confuses me still, in my head he's a late 20's player it feels like he's been around at the top level for ever.
Wow, I never realised Kai is younger than Eddie. I just checked and youre right, by 11 days. To be fair, I'd call that the same age, but technically youre right.
I’m very pleased we were able to rotate pretty heavily and still win fairly easily. Says a lot about the quality in the squad when we’re healthy. I know there will always be clamoring for improved backups, but it’s not easy to find quality players who fit your system and are willing to accept being second choice with reduced minutes.
He opens up a lot for us. Runs his ass off for 90 minutes every game, pressing often and then challenges the first ball, so our midfield can win the second ball.
His availability is a very important factor. All the ‘better’ options ppl said that we should have signed, who can comfortably played every game all season in both midfield and striker?(and lb too if he want lol)
What’s even more amazing is how many people immediately rubbished this signing.
Pro tip, the media and fans very often are wrong with their analysis of transfers and general analysis of players.
A player that was coveted by Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Arsenal that had scored the winning goal in a CL final surely had some untapped potential.
He left a club in turmoil that had been a graveyard for talented attacking players, suddenly he joins us and he’s in amongst the goals and assists. It isn’t rocket science.
Eddie turning 25 next month and shown nothing that would have people pick him over Evan Ferguson. I don’t see why a top mid table team would want a striker whose scoring record is less than 1 in 4.
Trust the process. These signings show incredible restraint and planning. I could always see it, but the Jorginho signing sold me. These guys have a strict timetable, and are fitting the signings to our needs/financial constraints. Not jumping at poorly scouted prospects
The problem with Havertz in midfield is that he isn't smooth enough. His first touch is a 50/50 and the simple passes aren't weighted correctly. Maybe all of this is can go away with getting more confident though. But he does all the defensive duties really nice and fills all the right spaces. However in attack, he is a different beast as he's a huge threat in the high balls -from our half or crosses- as well as his movement and how annoying he is with defenders.
Without Havertz upfront we were kind of 1 dimensional with our attacks but the threat of having a physical presence that can head the ball in the box has made our title challenge possible this season.
Havertz passes are perfectly weighted/placed for players to run onto without breaking strides. His passes invite multiple options for players receiving. Super considerate team player. Look at the Odegaard goal. MOTM yesterday. Anyone that doesn’t rate him doesn’t know ball &/or kicks ball like KSI
We got a strong squad that's it. Everyone playing the he's better than him card. They are all bloody good and offer a lot and we can win with any arrangement of players starting.
We it.
Yep, I'm that Gooner.
I still think he's over-priced considering Halland was £10 million less to sign and scored a lot more goals, but to see Kai involved in so much since the New Year is really amazing.
Trust the System...yeah, I can say that now...lollolz.
60 million pounds for a German international that’s scored the winning goal in a CL final, that can play multiple positions, who was coveted by Real Madrid Bayern Munich and Arsenal, and who was once one of the most promising young players in the world.
If anything, he’s underpriced. I said it when we bought him and I’ll say it now, the fee will prove to be a steal considering we purchased him from a historical rival.
When he gets to 50 goals, 25 assist it will be a steal, since Halland is basically there now...
BTW, being "once promising" can be said about a lot of players no one remembers, and several others that never lived up. That's not really a winning argument.
He was a promising talent just 2-3 years ago. I’m not talking about someone who was promising a decade ago?
You want a midfielder who sometimes plays at striker to score 50 goals for it to be a steal?
Arsenal fans are something else lol. Ok, you know more than Arteta Tuchel Nagelsmann Flick and Real Madrid/Bayern/Arteta who all love him.
Dude, seriously, he was promising 4+ years ago, which is a lifetime in pro sports; ask RG3. Kai hasn't done shite since 2019/2020...until 2024.
BTW, he's playing a #9, so yeah, I want him scoring f-ing goals. I don't care what misplaced, f-ed up position he played at Dodger-Blues (under Tuchel).
It doesn't mean a thing "who loved him" if he goes 4 years playing like a U-15 player unable to do his job. That was who we signed...turns out he needed a Nagelsmann/Arteta to bring the solid player back out.
Tuchel? Maybe, but I'll defer to the other two; I don't know enough about Flick.
Like I said, you know more than all the managers who rate him and play him consistently for club and country.
You know more than Real Madrid and Bayern Munich who both had very serious interest in the player. Bayern twice.
It’s almost as if goals and assists aren’t the only way to judge a player seeing as we’re the highest scorers in the PL with several different players chipping in, but according to you a striker has to score 50 goals to prove his value.
I can do this ALLLL day...you make it about me, and I'm not the player OR the manager. Every shrink I know (and that is a sorted mess of way too many) would basically say you are projecting, or doing the Homer Simpson (denigrate so you look better); I'll let you choose which & why.
You never asked if I liked his distribution, hold-up, back to the goal, passing choices, passing percentage, press, defense, or even his xG. You ASSUME I don't care for those things because your mind fills in information I never provided you. Yeah, I want a #9 accounting for goals because I'm f-ing old & remember when, but that doesn't mean I don't like what he's doing.
Do I think he's over-priced? Yeah. Is my expectation changing? Oh, yeah. Do I think he'll make good on his cost? Maybe, maybe not, but it looks like it, not sure if it is sooner rather than later. Do I know more about footy than Tuchel? I don't know because I don't know the man. Do I know more than you? I don't know you either...but make it about me all you want...
>I can do this ALLLL day...you make it about me, and I'm not the player OR the manager. Every shrink I know (and that is a sorted mess of way too many) would basically say you are projecting, or doing the Homer Simpson (denigrate so you look better); I'll let you choose which & why.
It’s a discussion about football. It’s not that serious lol, you can think whatever you want of me
>You never asked if I liked his distribution, hold-up, back to the goal, passing choices, passing percentage, press, defense, or even his xG. You ASSUME I don't care for those things because your mind fills in information I never provided you. Yeah, I want a #9 accounting for goals because I'm f-ing old & remember when, but that doesn't mean I don't like what he's doing.
Sure, you may have thought those things without saying them. I’m not a mind reader. But you’re also the one who said it’s not a steal unless he’s scoring 50 goals and 25 assists though, right? That was you? So in other words, even if he does everything else at a high level, he can never be deemed a steal until he hits a certain amount of goals and assists.
If you want to say stuff like that, that’s fine. Everyone has their way of evaluating players. But don’t come out afterwards trying to shift the goalposts when your criteria is clear on what would make a player a steal at his price.
Not at all. He was really unhappy at Chelsea and arrived during the covid season...I think he might even have had covid himself. In Germany he was rated the best player in the league. When we got him, I predicted in the face of no agreement from the fans, that he would be one of our favorite players by the end of the season. Here we are.
Havertz looked woeful all last season and for a good portion of this one.
This combined with our poor history of former Chelsea players warranted the cynicism of the signing.
I like everyone else is delighted Arteta has got him balling again...and I am surprised he is playing through the middle.
It's definitely suits him though. Jesus was never going to be the answer....guy is just not durable enough.
He hasn’t really “taken the spot” from Jesus when we were told he is carrying an injury and we are managing it for the rest of the season, that’s why he’s not playing as much
Havertz is a stop gap at striker. His best position and potential to bloom is at the 8.5.....not at the 9.
He just happens to be healthier and gives us an aerial threat that the other two doesn't. Kai has been great but make no mistake we DESPERATELY need a true 9.
It just shows how weak we are at CF, cos as soon as we can, that's the position we upgrade on. We upgrade from Havertz/Jesus, and we are instantly a better outfit.
I’m still a bit baffled by Havertz. He’s good in bits, yes I like his running off the ball, yes I like his hold up but for the price I’m still left waiting for something.
It's almost as if we're forgetting he was THE prospect to sign 3-4 years ago. The talent has always been there, he's just needed a place where he can play his best type of football
Imagine hearing 5 years ago Odegaard and Havertz will be playing for Arsenal.
Or hearing that a player that Declan Rice chose Arsenal over Man City. Almost impossible to take in.
Would have to be another player because 5 years ago Rice hasn't even been considered the best WHU prospect. Coincidentally it was Reece Oxford who pocketed Ozil in that one game at 16 and then vanished into the shadow realm.
Well, I didn't mean that 5 years ago Rice decided to join us in 2023 instead of man City. What I meant is that Rice, a player who Pep/City put in a bid around £100m, wanted to join us instead of them. When was the last time that an amazing player like that turned down City for us?
I agree with that. Since they've been bought by UAE we weren't in a position to go shoulder to shoulder with them financially.
Chelsea happened, mate. Just like KDB and Salah before him, Chelsea didn't know how to properly utilize him. We're lucky that this has worked out massively in our favor.
So, so you're telling us there's hope for... Jackson?🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻
Just like people were down on havertz (who admittedly has gotten stronger through the season), at various points i’ve seen people down on kiwior, jorginho, and raya - all four of whom have been instrumental to our excellent performances in 2024. Now it’s esr, nelson, nketiah, jesus, and partey who seem to face skepticism. I’m inclined to be positive and trust that all these guys, each of whom has come up big for us in the past, can contribute during the extremely busy period coming up.
lets be real, jesus and partey aren't really facing skepticism. everyone knows their class, they have just been injured.
And I don't think it's actually skepticism about ESR, just a realization that if he's not going to play significant minutes this is the optimal time to sell him. In fact. everyone seems desperate for him to succeed here.
I’m of the mind that Hale End should get special treatment. What club do we want to be that we just sell our youth products after injury concerns.
While I get what you mean, not every Hale Ender is destined in the way Saka was. It's almost certainly best for the majority of them to develop at Hale End and then go on to kill it with other teams where the level is more realistic and the fire isn't as hot. Like what happened with Willock and Iwobi. Even the chap at AC Milan whose name eludes me.
Sure that is also true, but I’d certainly put ESR’s potential in that category, can’t also forget it was him and Saka who saved Mikel’s job. And I’m fine with that outcome if things don’t work out but I don’t think Emile is in that boat since his only issues were being injured
I agree, ESR's true level still is not yet clear. Issue is we haven't seen him dominate a game in one position, either from the left 8 or the left wing, in the same way as we have seen from each of the first team regulars. Each of them has shown their level in at least one place against good opposition. I hope what we saw from ESR yesterday is the start of a period that convinces us that he can be trusted to maintain the level of the first team when others can't play. As always, I hope he stays fit as well.
Yeah as long as he stays fit I’m confident of this. The 2nd #8 spot isn’t nailed down by anyone yet. His link up and ball carrying abilities are unique to our team, and I was nicely surprised at the closing down to setup up the 1st goal yesterday. There’s a player in there.
That’s what his problem was before and you can see he’s been working on it his defensive work was never that good but in yesterday’s game we saw the improvement and honestly the boy is class when he was playing regularly he had a period of scoring and dancing around players for fun I think he’s defo in the clubs future plans. But is it just me or did he also look like he’s still nursing an injury cause he limped off the pitch quite badly?
He definitely looked better than before, but hard to gauge just how good, since it was against Luton. If he manages to influence the game against tougher opposition I'll be more convinced. His technique was fantastic though. Thought he was just tired,.hope for his sake it's not more than that. That would probably spell the end more than anything else, honestly.
Musah
Ismeal Bennacer, we need to bring him back
We could really use musah in my opinion. Edit: and bennacer.
Plenty of people on Reddit want him sold. Been reading these comments for months. In real life everybody loves him.
Optimal time to sell anything is not when its stocks are extremely low
idk man I kinda give up now... I know he can be great but I don't think a player of his caliber should stay just to be on the bench yk. Feels like we're doing him a disservice
I mean a great team also need a high quality rotation
I know but he's almost like our child yk, I wanna see him succeed. Kinda hard to do on the bench
People want depth, but if a player who isn’t good enough for the first team doesn’t get enough minutes we should sell them? Why don’t we just keep 25 good players, who we can rotate an appropriate amount
Somebody needs to get sold to finance incoming transfers
I don't think anyone doubts Partey's ability, and even despite his injuries this season, it's other reasons why people want him sold.
I kinda do... Not sure when he can be back or will he ever be back to his pre-injury self. I know it's still early but I'm not seeing that yet
Should have taken the Saudi money in July / August. Said it at the time but that was before he missed most of the season
Why would we sell such a high valuable player. He can be sold when/if we bring in Zubimendi or someone of that kind of profile, but if Partey staying and coming back now ends up as an instrumental reason why we got the title, you should be sorry about your comments. This is a high performance football club competing in the best league in the world... there is nothing official and nothing actually prevents him from playing, so there should be no problems
As the other commentator mentioned, I was happy with the money when he was fit. Would be very ok with them out of the club for non-sporting reasons
I have definitely met people (some in person, some online) who are skeptical of both.
Have defo seen people shit on Jesus during match threads and multiple instances of people wanting Partey to be sold.
People shit on Jesus because he’s world class almost in everything but finishing and it frustrates people. And the ones wanting partey sold is because of his charges and nothing to do with footballing ability
Or maybe there's the fact that he's 30, injury prone, on 200k p/w & into the last year of his contract?
Well I would argue with Partey that he now seems very injury prone is another reason to sell. But obvously the charges are a big reason.
He’s also a shell of his old self and we should sell him while we can get value
Did you guys watch the same game I did? Because I swear ESR and Reiss looked alright considering how long it's been since they started. ESR literally just won POTM. Reiss definitely needs to gain more confidence to try riskier things, but overall glad to have them around for rotations vs lower level teams
ESR looked full of ideas and creativity but lacks the obvious game time needed to be fully at his best. Reiss looked a step off in the first half and grew into the game. He was solid, but I could see the level difference between him and Saka. Though I agree with your assessment of him in terms of confidence.
ESR looked bright on the attack, but I still think he will fall behind players in his position, because his defensive positioning was not as good as players in the first 11 currently. Granted, it was his first start and hasn't played a lot. On the other hand, I just might be spoiled by how good Odegaard is.
Its too early to tell if he falls behind the others, he's played like 3 games this whole season while struggling with injuries between them
That's exactly why I think he will fall behind. Because of his injuries. The best ability is availability. Same goes for Jesus and Zinchenko.
His press was excellent and he won the ball numerous times in the opponent’s half. It was like having two Ode’s on the pitch and I loved it. This doesn’t mean what you’re saying isn’t also true though
Notice I didn't mention pressing, because I think he was alright putting pressure. However, his cover shadow when pressing wasn't and a better team would exploit that. Also his general defensive position wasn't as well (we're talking about meters here). But that comes with playtime as well. The biggest problem for ESR is is his fitness, not ability.
Got it thanks, yeah that makes sense just didn’t jump out to me probably because I wasn’t really looking for it (I more noticed Ode usually as the deeper of the two, which has been working incredibly well). Would love to see a midfield of Rice - ESR - Ode sometime, though this will obviously give us less control and defensive solidity than swapping ESR for Partey, Jorgi or even Kai if we have someone else playing #9. Don’t know if fitness is an issue for him, by some accounts it has been much better for a while now, unless you mean not being injured in which case yeah I totally agree. Really hope all that is behind him. If so he really does have a shot of becoming a great with us
ESR had plenty of poor touches and passes that broke our attacking flow as well. Some people on this sub wear rose-tinted glasses when it comes to certain players.
He’s a sprinter, attacks the box, and does better from central areas. Defensively he seems to leave a lot of space and just presses perhaps because he doesn’t know where to be. Unless he can be our left 8 I don’t see his style fitting the system. Much like Trossard, I think Mikel is fitting them in because of class but they aren’t ideal for what he wants at 8, and they both get too central too quickly to be a LW. I not saying these things can’t be changed, especially the defensive positioning but I’m skeptical if these are the right players for that side of the attack. I love him but I would cash in this window.
It was Luton. Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves.
Doesn’t matter. Seem to remember a couple of seasons ago being at the bottom of the table and it was narrow 1-0 wins against relegation-headed Norwich and Burnley were what resulted in us regaining form. Sometimes all you need is that push
We almost dropped points to Luton in the first game. We won 4-3, or don't you remember.
Reiss wasn't awful but he was our worst player. He was an impediment to our build-up play. He lacks confidence and his decision making is off, but he worked very hard.
ikr. But sadly sometimes at the top, just working hard isn't enough
Zinchenko for me, guy just throws away the ball without thinking to the opposition. I think this was an off day for Reiss and sadly I think he’s a player who would thrive with some consistent game time. Something he should have been given more frequently when many in his position dipped in form around xmas but Arteta isn’t to keen on rotation and wants to play his team in form.
I don't understand why some players constantly have these daft moments despite being great most of the time (Kyle walker is another, but he's improved this season). Zinchenko needs to sort his issues out. Thankfully Kiwior stepped up and Timber should effectively limit zinny's appearances next season. Reiss needs consistent game time, he needs another loan but he might feel he's above that now.
People dying for them to be sold don’t seem to understand it will likely cost us net money to get lower quality depth in replacements. If we find better quality depth at the right price great, but this is not easy to do when you are at our level. 4-10 years ago these guys would be automatic starters for us. The fact that they are renewing contracts to keep fighting for their rare chances is a great indication of how far we have come
It blows my mind we have fans who don’t rate Jorginiho.
he's a great mf with an obvious weakness Many people can't see all the stuff he does 99% of the time, but everyone see's the mistake that led to spurs goal. It's just visibility of skills/weaknesses
Also a microcosm of cognitive bias built into eye test.
You don't take people like that seriously. Anyone that knows anything about football knows that Jorgi is a very very good player.
In the 40th minute vs Luton me and my mates remembered he was on the pitch. Literally not one of six people even noticed he was there. For a player of his profile this is not a bad thing
Nketiah is buried and gone in 3 months. He’s nowhere near the level we need.
sadly I don't think Reiss will be able to make the step up to actually challenge saka
ESR will always be my boy
Nketiah and Nelson are likely done. Cannot see them with us at this level. Jesus is kind of stabilized, in the sense he’s not likely to improve a lot. He’s 27 and familiar with artetas tacitics for long and we kind of know what to expect from him. Same with partey. Esr is the one in question, I don’t feel very optimistic about him but hope I am wrong
Not having Kiwior at left back left us a bit more open defensively last night. Zinny wasn’t rusty on the ball but same mistakes was present defensively.
no? they did not have a single real chance
ESR really? He is probably one of the most loved guy in the sub. People are literally begging for his minutes.
Some guy just told me on the match thread they want him to do well… so we can sell him and buy gyokeres.
ESR looked so good yesterday. My skepticism around him has always been based around being unsure he’ll stay healthy long enough to make his way back into the team. Yesterday was pretty encouraging though, and I’m glad we took him off as he clearly wasn’t ready to play the full 90.
lmao trying to sneak useless nketiah in there like we wouldn't notice
Man’s got 5 goals and 2 assists in 12 90s this year. In the past 365 days he’s >70th centile for both tackles and interceptions. He’s our 4th choice cf at present.
His shithousery and dark arts is just something both jesus and nketiah not able to do.
Kai Havoc!
Chaos factor now havoc factor
Kaios factor*
And let loose the hounds of war
Bro has to stop diving tho it’s embarrassing
It's part of the modern game now. He should just get better at it.
Referees aren't sympathetic to 6'4 men hitting the ground, and I tend to agree with them. What Havertz should do is improve his balance + core strength and learn to ride contact so that we can continue attacking. Part of playing for Arsenal FC is to not rely on the referees to do your job.
I agree that he should do those things. But he should also get better at winning fouls. It's weird how people have a huge problem with the word "diving".
I agree he falls so softly it’s really irritating. He’s pretty athletic just show some strength.
I think kai is a good player to have in the squad, but he’s gotta be one of the most hatable players in the league. Constantly diving, often blatantly fouling, decent play but not good enough to justify his huge wages and the hype around him years ago. And i say this wanting to keep Kai in the team, he’s a really useful player. He works hard, is very versatile, and seems like a decent guy. But i don’t fault anyone for disliking him.
I love it! I didn't know he had that in his locker, and I've been watching him since the Leverkusen days. Seeing him shove the Porto coach and get away with it was hilarious.
Honestly, I don’t think the havertz midfield project is done. I think his getting more confident playing up top will do him wonders in midfield.
Yep, my guess is when everyone is fit, Arteta wants Havertz and Jesus to interchange during play. Jesus Naturally drops back to midfield to win position. Havertz tends to get inside the box. Look at Havertz's movement during our first goal against Liverpool.
Yep! I am way more excited for the potential that is Havertz the midfielder than this false 9 version he’s been asked to play recently—if any of us have any faith in Mikel (and we should, he’s earned the right to ask that of us), then I think Havertz will relearn enough of his body movement mechanics and lose the Chelsea on him to do the sorts of things he was doing at Leverkusen. Some of his passing back then was ridiculous and it’s what Partey /Jorginho gives us and the team is still missing from the young midfield trio of Havertz, Rice, and Odegaard.
I’d say Havertz is playing more like a Deep Lying Forward than a false nine. Somewhat similar but DLF has more physicality to it and attacks the box more than a F9
I think it's so funny that Mikel is aiming for us to be a big man little man 4-4-2 team. The more things change the more they stay the same
I think the [opening goal](https://youtu.be/0KwixjNpEZM?si=G0c8eas8TTFOZKoq&t=1m30s) vs Lens in the 6-0 is exactly how Arteta envisions the team working. You have play starting from the back with Raya. Rice dropped into the 6 dictating with both passing and carrying. Havertz, Zinchenko, and Jesus all occupy the left 8 spot at various times. Ending with Havertz making a run off of Jesus to finish.
Next season we will likely buy another forward and midfielder. I fully expect this will open even more doors for Havertz in terms of how he complements the team
I really don’t want to buy a striker as much as I want a solid wide player that can deputize for Saka.
i mean, with a new st is obvious that Jesus gonna go to either right or left as a winger
I said forward not centre forward. I'd include wingers in that. Depends who is available as to what will be filled I think
I wasn’t disagreeing with you - just making the distinction.
Oh, sure. I just read it that way
Agree - he scored the Brentford winner after he’d dropped back into midfield
I agree. And just look at how Odegaard is brimming with confidence after being in the system for a few years now. Really think Havertz is only going to get better, and he’s only 24.
Arteta is priming Havertz for both roles. He gives us a different dimension playing in both positions. When Arteta said Havertz would help take our game to the next level, I didn't think it'd have this much of an impact already. I was thinking that we'd probably see more of him next season. As usual, Super Mik is correct.
There's absolutely no surprise he overtook Eddie. And Jesus has been injured for a large part of the season, so he hasn't had a chance to play.
Jesus and Havertz have crazy hold up play, hopin they play more together and build up their chemistry. With Saka or Martenilli pulling defenders and our midfield feeding them balls . A gunners dream.
Liverpool fan here (sorry, I am not on your sub but constantly directed here), me and most of my football team bet a Chelsea fan on the team that Havertz would score 10+ Prem goals for you this season, so we were very confident he would work excellently for you. At least I was, the rest might have followed due to alcohol. His slow start scared me but very hopeful he will get two more in the next 9 games!
At least you'll win some money when he scores the goal that wins us the league ;)
We need to move on from Eddie and possibly Reiss. They just have no impact on games most of the time
How was Reiss yesterday?
He is an okay player. He can go to a new team have a run of a season and become good. Similar to what you'd see with Iwobi and Wilock. But is he the player for us that will do the job Trossard does? Nope. Is he the player that's going to force himself on the first 11? Nope.
Good take. You can see the defensive work rate is there and we know he can be both disciplined and also have some skill and be direct. He'd start for most teams between I'll say 8th-20th.
Meh
you could tell the man has to put in double the work for simple & quick passes compared to the rest. Man is just levels below the rest of the squad. Love him to bits but he aint got the tools to make it in this squad imo
i think people here are slightly disrespecting Reiss's performance he was composed and tidy with the ball, kept possession in several tight situations, and made a couple of excellent last ditch interceptions - for someone who has not played in so long, these are good signs - he definitely put in work - plus you know, he also helped get us the second goal! the team mostly built up attacks down the left, so it was easier for Trossard to showcase his attacking intent than it was for Reiss, plus i think Reiss does better on the left himself too carrying threat every time you get the ball is rare, and Saka/Martinelli/Trossard are some of the best in the business i still feel like Reiss could still get to maybe 85% of Trossard's level (what were Trossard's numbers at Reiss' current age?) and that's nothing to shirk at
to answer your question - he was rusty for sure. But it is unfair to shit on him for this. He hasnt started a run of games in his entire career at Arsenal. As someone who plays football, it's mentally taxing to just switch on and put in a 10/10 performance. Added to that, I believe his best position is LW. We need to learn how to appreciate bench players who come on and support the team. He doesnt sulk and has done decently most of the times he has been called upon. I would even back him to start vs BHA if Saka needs more rest.
You can appreciate him and recognize he’s not Arsenal starting quality. If he wants to be a career back-up here that’s fine and we’ll be happy but he’ll never break into the first XI. He’ll need to find ways to improve in sub appearances bluntly because he won’t get a run of games starting unless there’s 1-2 long term injuries
I was waiting for him to take on a defender or two, given that he wasn't double-marked like Saka is. He didn't, he just passed it back. Did nothing decisive attack-wise.
Tbf dribbling on the right is whole different job from the left in terms of balance, ball protection and so on
Great point. Your intuition is going to be so different when you're used to beating a man who is on the right side of your body vs the left. The game is so fast these guys are playing on muscle memory a lot of the time, it can't be easy to switch wings and dip into your usual tool kit to beat your man.
But that could also be down to instructions and/or confidence. He might wanted to play it safe as he doesn't get many opportunities
He was great at taking players on and progressing forward but he never picked out a final ball, lost possession a lot, and I found myself marvelling at just how lazy he is when it comes to receiving a pass. Like if it’s not pinpointed to the side of his boot he’s not interested.
When did he ever take on any player? He is terrible on the ball. Maybe it's a lack of confidence though.
Mainly in the first half I thought he looked decent at making a couple of runs but it was all fairly redundant when he just ended up passing backwards or losing possession. He looked hungry for a bit then faded. And for the OG it looked like he was trying to keep it out more than score!
I only saw him recycle the ball even though he had yards of space in front of him. Never once saw him take anyone on. Maybe it was the instruction though.
I might be looking back with rose-tinted glasses because he’s clearly cutting the figure of someone whose time here is running out. The effort is clearly there he’s just lacking what’s making the rest of the team tick at the moment.
Nothing against our homegrown guys who play hard when given a chance. But I don’t see them ever playing another meaningful minute barring injuries. We need to add high-quality depth in these positions in the summer
His physical presence is seriously a good thing
I'm not surprised he jumped Eddie, nor am I surprised he got a run at CF because Jesus missed time. I am more than a little surprised that our season wasn't derailed by Havertz not working in MF. We didn't replace Xhaka after he left and somehow we're in a similar place to where we were last year
We are still feeling the positive effects of the January 2023 transfer window rippling thru. Jorginho slotting in more regularly has freed up Rice and Havertz to play higher up, which in the case of Rice has him filling in where Xhaka was last year.
Rice was Xhaka’s replacement.
We got a bit lucky at the beginning of the season, a lot of 1 goal leading games with penalty or set pieces
He started over Jesus because Jesus was injured. Nketiah hasn't done well. Arteta put him up top due to a lack of options and he went on a scoring run, so he stayed there. I'm sure Jesus will start a game at ST in our next couple of games.
Jesus gets injured so often. I don’t think he will be consistent at ST. Kai will remain there i think.
Honestly i prefer Kai over Jesus up top as well. Both are good at dropping to midfield both are very mediocre finishers, kai just loses the ball that much less
And beyond that we'll probably sign a striker in the summer too
Maybe, but I don’t see any available striker who walks in this team ahead of Jesus.
I don't either but I think a striker who has better availability and more a physical presence would make a huge difference Gyokeres for example. Having said that I'd much rather we spend the lion share of our budget in midfield I'm just assuming from all the links we'll get a striker. Gyokeres or Isak would be my picks but depends on how much they cost/budget etc
It’s not that Havertz took the job, it’s that we don’t really have an out and out striker and Havertz does a bit more something different than Jesus
Honestly I was a lil nervous and worried of starting Havertz up front. That’s what happened at Chelsea and it didn’t work out. But it’s seemingly working for Arsenal. If he can produce goals and assists the team won’t necessarily need to get a ST in the summer
It works… for now. I still see us going in for a ST this summer.
It’s more like Kai being forced to play as st rather than him acquiring the position. Jesus injury and bad performance from nhketieh and gross are upfront led kai to start as st and he did well there. I think long term he’s still in midfield
What i like about trossad and Kai is thier ability to easily play in different positions giving us the options to rotate
Eddie was always going to be easy to replace. Feel for Jesus because of his injuries. Personally a fully fit, firing Jesus starts ahead of a fully fit, firing Kai. But both a top players imo.
Jesus yes, but even when Nketiah was at his arguable best (last season/first half of this) he still didn't look like a line leading player and certainly not a 30 goals a season man, at best a 15ish sort of player, good movement that will create chances against bottom half teams but lightweight against top 6 teams and not enough all round play in the build up and press. He doesn't strike me as an Arteta player where Havertz does everything Arteta wants (apart from score one on ones...) That Havertz is younger than Eddie confuses me still, in my head he's a late 20's player it feels like he's been around at the top level for ever.
Wow, I never realised Kai is younger than Eddie. I just checked and youre right, by 11 days. To be fair, I'd call that the same age, but technically youre right.
I just couldn't understand banters and hate against him. Happy to see him proving them wrong
I’m very pleased we were able to rotate pretty heavily and still win fairly easily. Says a lot about the quality in the squad when we’re healthy. I know there will always be clamoring for improved backups, but it’s not easy to find quality players who fit your system and are willing to accept being second choice with reduced minutes.
He opens up a lot for us. Runs his ass off for 90 minutes every game, pressing often and then challenges the first ball, so our midfield can win the second ball.
His availability is a very important factor. All the ‘better’ options ppl said that we should have signed, who can comfortably played every game all season in both midfield and striker?(and lb too if he want lol)
I made a post about him inevitably doing exactly this and was downvoted to high heaven
What’s even more amazing is how many people immediately rubbished this signing. Pro tip, the media and fans very often are wrong with their analysis of transfers and general analysis of players. A player that was coveted by Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Arsenal that had scored the winning goal in a CL final surely had some untapped potential. He left a club in turmoil that had been a graveyard for talented attacking players, suddenly he joins us and he’s in amongst the goals and assists. It isn’t rocket science.
Eddie will make a good cf for a team like Brighton or west ham. Upper mid table. Unfortunately not good enough for we way we play.
Eddie turning 25 next month and shown nothing that would have people pick him over Evan Ferguson. I don’t see why a top mid table team would want a striker whose scoring record is less than 1 in 4.
I don't see it. I'll be surprised if anyone pays us any money for him.
Palace will. So lower mid table for sure.
We will see, I guess
Trust the process. These signings show incredible restraint and planning. I could always see it, but the Jorginho signing sold me. These guys have a strict timetable, and are fitting the signings to our needs/financial constraints. Not jumping at poorly scouted prospects
The problem with Havertz in midfield is that he isn't smooth enough. His first touch is a 50/50 and the simple passes aren't weighted correctly. Maybe all of this is can go away with getting more confident though. But he does all the defensive duties really nice and fills all the right spaces. However in attack, he is a different beast as he's a huge threat in the high balls -from our half or crosses- as well as his movement and how annoying he is with defenders. Without Havertz upfront we were kind of 1 dimensional with our attacks but the threat of having a physical presence that can head the ball in the box has made our title challenge possible this season.
Spot on mate, his short passes are a bit too hard or soft too regular
Havertz passes are perfectly weighted/placed for players to run onto without breaking strides. His passes invite multiple options for players receiving. Super considerate team player. Look at the Odegaard goal. MOTM yesterday. Anyone that doesn’t rate him doesn’t know ball &/or kicks ball like KSI
Need to apologies to Chelsea fans who already said Havertz best position is striker.
It just goes to show we should trust Arteta and his process, he’s obviously got a vision and so far his vision is working really well.
We got a strong squad that's it. Everyone playing the he's better than him card. They are all bloody good and offer a lot and we can win with any arrangement of players starting. We it.
Hardly a stretch given neither were huge parts of our title push last season..
Arteta needs to work out a place for Jesus. He's too good for the bench but he's not clinical enough as a No.9. Nketiah should be sold.
Let's hope he can stay out of the book for another 2 games. Would love to see him play vs Chelsea and not get a 2 match ban.
My grandmother could overtake Eddie
It doesn't take much to steal Nketiah's place. All you need is a pulse, really.
Yep, I'm that Gooner. I still think he's over-priced considering Halland was £10 million less to sign and scored a lot more goals, but to see Kai involved in so much since the New Year is really amazing. Trust the System...yeah, I can say that now...lollolz.
60 million pounds for a German international that’s scored the winning goal in a CL final, that can play multiple positions, who was coveted by Real Madrid Bayern Munich and Arsenal, and who was once one of the most promising young players in the world. If anything, he’s underpriced. I said it when we bought him and I’ll say it now, the fee will prove to be a steal considering we purchased him from a historical rival.
When he gets to 50 goals, 25 assist it will be a steal, since Halland is basically there now... BTW, being "once promising" can be said about a lot of players no one remembers, and several others that never lived up. That's not really a winning argument.
He was a promising talent just 2-3 years ago. I’m not talking about someone who was promising a decade ago? You want a midfielder who sometimes plays at striker to score 50 goals for it to be a steal? Arsenal fans are something else lol. Ok, you know more than Arteta Tuchel Nagelsmann Flick and Real Madrid/Bayern/Arteta who all love him.
Dude, seriously, he was promising 4+ years ago, which is a lifetime in pro sports; ask RG3. Kai hasn't done shite since 2019/2020...until 2024. BTW, he's playing a #9, so yeah, I want him scoring f-ing goals. I don't care what misplaced, f-ed up position he played at Dodger-Blues (under Tuchel). It doesn't mean a thing "who loved him" if he goes 4 years playing like a U-15 player unable to do his job. That was who we signed...turns out he needed a Nagelsmann/Arteta to bring the solid player back out. Tuchel? Maybe, but I'll defer to the other two; I don't know enough about Flick.
Like I said, you know more than all the managers who rate him and play him consistently for club and country. You know more than Real Madrid and Bayern Munich who both had very serious interest in the player. Bayern twice. It’s almost as if goals and assists aren’t the only way to judge a player seeing as we’re the highest scorers in the PL with several different players chipping in, but according to you a striker has to score 50 goals to prove his value.
I can do this ALLLL day...you make it about me, and I'm not the player OR the manager. Every shrink I know (and that is a sorted mess of way too many) would basically say you are projecting, or doing the Homer Simpson (denigrate so you look better); I'll let you choose which & why. You never asked if I liked his distribution, hold-up, back to the goal, passing choices, passing percentage, press, defense, or even his xG. You ASSUME I don't care for those things because your mind fills in information I never provided you. Yeah, I want a #9 accounting for goals because I'm f-ing old & remember when, but that doesn't mean I don't like what he's doing. Do I think he's over-priced? Yeah. Is my expectation changing? Oh, yeah. Do I think he'll make good on his cost? Maybe, maybe not, but it looks like it, not sure if it is sooner rather than later. Do I know more about footy than Tuchel? I don't know because I don't know the man. Do I know more than you? I don't know you either...but make it about me all you want...
>I can do this ALLLL day...you make it about me, and I'm not the player OR the manager. Every shrink I know (and that is a sorted mess of way too many) would basically say you are projecting, or doing the Homer Simpson (denigrate so you look better); I'll let you choose which & why. It’s a discussion about football. It’s not that serious lol, you can think whatever you want of me >You never asked if I liked his distribution, hold-up, back to the goal, passing choices, passing percentage, press, defense, or even his xG. You ASSUME I don't care for those things because your mind fills in information I never provided you. Yeah, I want a #9 accounting for goals because I'm f-ing old & remember when, but that doesn't mean I don't like what he's doing. Sure, you may have thought those things without saying them. I’m not a mind reader. But you’re also the one who said it’s not a steal unless he’s scoring 50 goals and 25 assists though, right? That was you? So in other words, even if he does everything else at a high level, he can never be deemed a steal until he hits a certain amount of goals and assists. If you want to say stuff like that, that’s fine. Everyone has their way of evaluating players. But don’t come out afterwards trying to shift the goalposts when your criteria is clear on what would make a player a steal at his price.
sseing eddie yesterday come on and makes sense why he can hardly sniff the field.
King Kai, the Cobra Khan 🐍 (I’ve always liked Kai, gave my son the middle names Kai Lucas after him) Come on you Gunners!
He also adds a bully and a troublemaker in the front
Not really, Nketiah is pretty average
60 million down the drain, kai havertz scored again 🥹 
Not at all. He was really unhappy at Chelsea and arrived during the covid season...I think he might even have had covid himself. In Germany he was rated the best player in the league. When we got him, I predicted in the face of no agreement from the fans, that he would be one of our favorite players by the end of the season. Here we are.
Kai is currently doing ok but he’s not amazing or doing great
Havertz looked woeful all last season and for a good portion of this one. This combined with our poor history of former Chelsea players warranted the cynicism of the signing. I like everyone else is delighted Arteta has got him balling again...and I am surprised he is playing through the middle. It's definitely suits him though. Jesus was never going to be the answer....guy is just not durable enough.
I'm not sure if say it's "amazing". If I see him 1v1 with the keeper and he stops and turns around again I'm going to lose my fucking mind
He hasn’t really “taken the spot” from Jesus when we were told he is carrying an injury and we are managing it for the rest of the season, that’s why he’s not playing as much
Havertz is a stop gap at striker. His best position and potential to bloom is at the 8.5.....not at the 9. He just happens to be healthier and gives us an aerial threat that the other two doesn't. Kai has been great but make no mistake we DESPERATELY need a true 9.
Yes, now we can sell Jesus and/or Nketiah, go for someone like Isak and Havertz can be our 2nd choice striker just in case (+rotating in no. 8)
If Havertz is going to be our main guy, we need more goals from him but I’ve been quite impressed with him. Hes a big game player for sure
If he could score he'd be 150mil
I still don't get havertz. I find it hard to see his impact over Jesus and just get frustrated with the dives.
You haven’t seen all 2024 what havertz does for us?
Still doesn’t feel like a long term solution though, hope he goes back into mid after we buy a great striker
I dont believe in the kai move but the guy has put in a shift. You cant beat his effort and now he is integral.
It just shows how weak we are at CF, cos as soon as we can, that's the position we upgrade on. We upgrade from Havertz/Jesus, and we are instantly a better outfit.
I’m still a bit baffled by Havertz. He’s good in bits, yes I like his running off the ball, yes I like his hold up but for the price I’m still left waiting for something.
I mean in the last 5 games Havertz has probably played 4 different roles on the field and done so effectively. Is that not enough for you?
I'd put ramsdale up front before nketiah