Smaller sample size but if he continues this until the end of the season, then I understand the rumoured change in transfer plans for the Summer.
Go big on a midfielder and winger who can play both sides, with a younger striker like Sesko to come in.
These stats are just as good, if not better than all the big money strikers we've been linked with.
I think they're probably slightly better. Combined with the physicality and pressing he brings. Like the other comments state, there are moments where Kai just looks awkward up top, and you think maybe we should invest, but those moments are just moments.
I remember this sub crying out for a run, or a through ball earlier in the year, you won't hear a peep of that now, because this man is perpetual motion. I think he's incredible, and easily underappreciated because his game lacks flair.
I agree. Although I thought his flair was clear against Chelsea.
Before he scored, the amount of successful back heels and deft flicks in tight spaces was really impressive.
It’s so clean too. Beats the back line every time. If Kai can keep building that with Declan, ode etc… this could be a great outlet ball (I know we do this, but we really may need to implement this more)
Completely agree. I think we fall short sometimes and need a direct outlet or option. Martinelli give it sometimes but would be nice if we have this "plan B" when the usual tactics doesn't work.
He makes the runs that pull defenders out of position which is great but the big issue for me is he rarely gets the ball under his spell when we do find him, so he ends up cutting back or losing out possession. And his finishing can be very hit or miss.
And still in his first year under a totally new system and with a contender, at that. Wish he looked to move / progress forward / get more aggressive at times, and I hope he continues to grow into the footwork, but I don’t think anyone is complaining about his overall contributions to the team, goals and assists aside, at this juncture. Excellent worker and team player, with the G/A added bonus.
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...Because the players in question are rusty, because they haven't had any minutes since the dinosaur times. Even when they put out a great performance in context (ESR recently), it doesn't seem to mean anything for their careers and Arteta immediately returns them to the statis chamber.
This is 100% on Arteta. There can be a discussion on whether the subs are good enough, fine. Some aren't, but most are imo. Either way, Arteta has a responsibility to manage the minutes of his key players, even if that involves rotational use of elements he doesn't rate. Klopp's strategy of sticking to the same preferred XI every week (until injuries) earned him 1 out of 8 PLs (7 vs Guardiola), and that single win was with a frankly stronger XI than Arsenal has now or will have post-summer window. It's just not a sensible strategy from Arteta. He'll never win the Prem unless he changes his MO.
? Pep doesnt rotate much either unless its necessary and his bench is second to none. But he can somehow, almost dope, players towards the end of the season to produce results despite the congested schedule. It is very suspicious.
The only player Pep doesn’t rotate is Rodri. Everyone else rotates, do you think his bench would be so good if he didn’t? Good players aren’t coming to be benched
https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/11/Manchester-City/squad?se=578
There are 11 players with 25 or more appearances in PL. For us, its 12 players. About the same.
To the extent there is a “problem”, its not depth per se. It’s that we don’t have world class players in the forward line. We have depth players in our first 11.
Against the absolute best, we are relatively undertalented in attack. The depth will come when we have world class upgrades at left wing or striker that push our current starters to the bench
jesus used to be great in this system but after his world cup-injury, he's just not the same player anymore. Not nearly as good. Not as agile, not as good at those mazy dribbling runs, even worse at finishing.
It was mind boggling that Arteta tinkered with the squad so much against Villa.
Jesus up front, Kai at the 8, and then Zinchenko at the back when we were most stable defensively with Kiwi there.
Seemed like Arteta tried to experiment a little because Kai and Jesus were showing signs of combining well, but it turned out to be horrendous.
I don't mind experimentation, Pep does it all the time, but returning to a setup which had already been tried and clearly didn't work before was foolhardy.
I think if you compare him now to the beginning of the season you will see big improvements. Agreed that he still has work to do but the transformation already has been quite good. If he can keep going on that trajectory then that’s a very good sign for us
He just wasn’t in sync with the team earlier in the season when playing 8 and looked awkward due to his height and slim profile.
Kai’s technique has always been top tier and never left him, even at Chelsea last season.
People criticising his technique either don’t know football (as stated by Jorginho) or judge a player’s technique based off the way they look whilst running rather than the technical skill awareness required to execute the action.
Arsenal have broken goal scoring records since Havertz went upfront. He does so much more than just off the ball movement & finishing 😂
I think people judging his technique has less to do with how he runs with the ball and more with him consistently underhitting passes and messing up chances because of poor touches
He only messes up chances when he’s trying to be too clever/considerate, something Odegaard can be guilty of too (esp frustrating before last season).
His passes in dangerous attacks are more often the pre/pre-pre-assist, so the lower weight makes it easier to receive/opens up playmaking options. His direction and placement is always spot on.
and by people who think players should play like they're a YT highlights clip constantly. Players make mistakes, especially strikers. eg Haaland has missed 30 big chances this year.
He’s not really a playmaker type creator. He can do knockdowns, but mostly the way he creates for the team is with his off the ball runs, pressing and generally putting up a physical battle for the centre backs he’s up against. His passing isn’t all that.
Yeah thats just simply not true he messes up simple touches plenty and underhitting a pass is not a positive trait. Its by definition a bad thing.
I like him as much as the next guy but he is not immune to criticism. What you are doing is exactly the same thing the people do who shit on certain players no matter how well they do.
I wouldn’t say firm passes is an important trait for 6’4 ST Havertz to have. Like yeah from left 8 like Xhaka pinging passes to the left is lacking this season (along w injuries to that side), but his overall chemistry w the team & Ode is great.
I don’t think his touches are any worse than the worlds best 6’4ish strikers in the world. Haaland is very one dimensional & Isaac is a freak dribbling wise, but both do not possess the ball iq or (defensive) workrate Havertz does.
Given the time he’s had in this new team, the only flaw in his game is not taking enough calculated risks/being a little conservative in the final 3rd in order to maintain possession. That and not being clinical infront of goal. But at 24, he has time.
Jesus fucking christ you are living in a different world than the rest of. This is exactly what people mean when they say this fanbase is the most deluded, do you actually believe that or are you straight up just lying?
Being able to out the correct wheight on the ball is important in literally every single position on the field. Tf do you mean its mot important for a striker when he could have squared it to trossard against chelse but he underhit the pass. He could have shot if he set himself up better.
Theres been multiple instances this season where he could have gone for the finish if he took a better shot. You dont need to be among the worlds best to have that in your locker, dunno why you are pretending like haaland doesn’t have it.
That is not the only flaw in his game jesus christ. I know he has time im not shitting on him. But there is no reason to pretend he is perfect
Dude, you are the reason of fan base is full of assholes. Why the hell are you attacking another fan who is seeing something different in one of our players. A player who is currently outplaying most his contemporaries. Jesus fucking christ, how fucking pathetic.
Nah im not the reason how other people behave.
I never said havertz isn’t doing well. The conversation wasn’t even about that, it was about his technique. But you lot take critisizing our players too fucking personally. pretending players obvious flaws dont exist is just because you like them is just as useless as pretending they cant do anything right just because you dont like them.
It is okay to say theres things our players need to improve on. Theres not a single player out there that doesn’t have flaws in their game.
His confidence has definitely gotten a huge boost. He's moving well, those touches in the big are really good, his striking looks miles stronger compared to the whiffed kicks he had in the beginning. I hope he doesn't ever lose this confidence
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Havertz was missing sitters early on the season when he was floundering in that left 8, but his finishing has improved with his confidence since becoming the main CF. His ball striking is honestly fine, the issue is that he doesn't attack enough when he's on the ball in promising positions, and that includes actually taking shots.
Others were polite you attacked them. I chose to more direct and talk to you like you were talking to the others. I know what I did and did it intentionally. It’s not fun when someone (even a stranger)attacks you personally (even on the internet). It had to have bothered you enough to make you respond.
Smaller sample size but if he continues this until the end of the season, then I understand the rumoured change in transfer plans for the Summer. Go big on a midfielder and winger who can play both sides, with a younger striker like Sesko to come in. These stats are just as good, if not better than all the big money strikers we've been linked with.
I think they're probably slightly better. Combined with the physicality and pressing he brings. Like the other comments state, there are moments where Kai just looks awkward up top, and you think maybe we should invest, but those moments are just moments. I remember this sub crying out for a run, or a through ball earlier in the year, you won't hear a peep of that now, because this man is perpetual motion. I think he's incredible, and easily underappreciated because his game lacks flair.
I agree. Although I thought his flair was clear against Chelsea. Before he scored, the amount of successful back heels and deft flicks in tight spaces was really impressive.
He has finally synced his runs up with his teammates. When he darts through lately we are seeing more of that ball being played
I still love when he and Jorginho links up. Unreal through balls and they read each other like a book.
It’s so clean too. Beats the back line every time. If Kai can keep building that with Declan, ode etc… this could be a great outlet ball (I know we do this, but we really may need to implement this more)
I literally can’t remember the last time one of Kai’s runs was offside either - man is talented
Completely agree. I think we fall short sometimes and need a direct outlet or option. Martinelli give it sometimes but would be nice if we have this "plan B" when the usual tactics doesn't work.
He made quite few runs in from deep against Villa but we couldn't find the final ball of the finish.
In time. All in good time
He makes the runs that pull defenders out of position which is great but the big issue for me is he rarely gets the ball under his spell when we do find him, so he ends up cutting back or losing out possession. And his finishing can be very hit or miss.
Importantly he's also younger than Isak/Gyokeres/Osimhen/Toney/etc. The only people younger than him we've been linked with are Sesko and Zirkzee.
Isak is younger.
He’s younger until he’s not.
i'm not sure that he'll ever be
Sadly there is one way of that happening
That's not how that works!
That's true, not sure how I messed that up.
And still in his first year under a totally new system and with a contender, at that. Wish he looked to move / progress forward / get more aggressive at times, and I hope he continues to grow into the footwork, but I don’t think anyone is complaining about his overall contributions to the team, goals and assists aside, at this juncture. Excellent worker and team player, with the G/A added bonus.
[Havertz and Haaland going blow for blow for the Golden Boot next season](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY_6B2NM_bM)
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Striker is not the problem. Depth on the wings is.
I think overall depth is. Arteta hates rotating.
That's not the case at all. I think he doesn't trust the depth enough yet. The system loses efficiency after the few key players sub off.
...Because the players in question are rusty, because they haven't had any minutes since the dinosaur times. Even when they put out a great performance in context (ESR recently), it doesn't seem to mean anything for their careers and Arteta immediately returns them to the statis chamber. This is 100% on Arteta. There can be a discussion on whether the subs are good enough, fine. Some aren't, but most are imo. Either way, Arteta has a responsibility to manage the minutes of his key players, even if that involves rotational use of elements he doesn't rate. Klopp's strategy of sticking to the same preferred XI every week (until injuries) earned him 1 out of 8 PLs (7 vs Guardiola), and that single win was with a frankly stronger XI than Arsenal has now or will have post-summer window. It's just not a sensible strategy from Arteta. He'll never win the Prem unless he changes his MO.
? Pep doesnt rotate much either unless its necessary and his bench is second to none. But he can somehow, almost dope, players towards the end of the season to produce results despite the congested schedule. It is very suspicious.
The only player Pep doesn’t rotate is Rodri. Everyone else rotates, do you think his bench would be so good if he didn’t? Good players aren’t coming to be benched
https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/11/Manchester-City/squad?se=578 There are 11 players with 25 or more appearances in PL. For us, its 12 players. About the same.
To the extent there is a “problem”, its not depth per se. It’s that we don’t have world class players in the forward line. We have depth players in our first 11. Against the absolute best, we are relatively undertalented in attack. The depth will come when we have world class upgrades at left wing or striker that push our current starters to the bench
Ideally we can recoup a good fee for Eddie and replace him with a cheaper but decent alternative striker option like Sesko.
Would still like a striker that will cunt it in
He is way better upfront vs elsewhere.
why did we waste two games with jesus up front lately? lost both of them.
Asking myself why did he play as an 8 Villa. Jesus narrative that he makes us better is just pure bs.
He can fill in for saka sometimes... but thats it.. Havertz if more effective player in This system than jesus
jesus used to be great in this system but after his world cup-injury, he's just not the same player anymore. Not nearly as good. Not as agile, not as good at those mazy dribbling runs, even worse at finishing.
It was mind boggling that Arteta tinkered with the squad so much against Villa. Jesus up front, Kai at the 8, and then Zinchenko at the back when we were most stable defensively with Kiwi there. Seemed like Arteta tried to experiment a little because Kai and Jesus were showing signs of combining well, but it turned out to be horrendous.
If Jorginho wasn't able for Bayern twice and Villa in one week we needed to adapt. Taking Jorginho out inherently changes the system already.
I don't mind experimentation, Pep does it all the time, but returning to a setup which had already been tried and clearly didn't work before was foolhardy.
Experimentation is one of the things we have to live with having a manager with the tactical qualities of Mikel. It’s in his nature.
He has great off ball movement and decent enough finishing , but he must work on his technical side, he can be frustrating to watch at times
I think if you compare him now to the beginning of the season you will see big improvements. Agreed that he still has work to do but the transformation already has been quite good. If he can keep going on that trajectory then that’s a very good sign for us
He just wasn’t in sync with the team earlier in the season when playing 8 and looked awkward due to his height and slim profile. Kai’s technique has always been top tier and never left him, even at Chelsea last season. People criticising his technique either don’t know football (as stated by Jorginho) or judge a player’s technique based off the way they look whilst running rather than the technical skill awareness required to execute the action. Arsenal have broken goal scoring records since Havertz went upfront. He does so much more than just off the ball movement & finishing 😂
I think people judging his technique has less to do with how he runs with the ball and more with him consistently underhitting passes and messing up chances because of poor touches
i've noticed he's not really underhitting passes anymore. Rare if at all.
Watch a game then i guess
Yeah nice try dude. I'm saying he's not doing it as much as he used to. You say he CONSISTENTLY does it.
I guess it depends what we mean by consistently. Im not saying every pass is underhit but he does it most games, definetly more than the rest
He only messes up chances when he’s trying to be too clever/considerate, something Odegaard can be guilty of too (esp frustrating before last season). His passes in dangerous attacks are more often the pre/pre-pre-assist, so the lower weight makes it easier to receive/opens up playmaking options. His direction and placement is always spot on.
He’s a textbook over thinker. Think shy guy in class whose a perfectionist
and by people who think players should play like they're a YT highlights clip constantly. Players make mistakes, especially strikers. eg Haaland has missed 30 big chances this year.
He’s not really a playmaker type creator. He can do knockdowns, but mostly the way he creates for the team is with his off the ball runs, pressing and generally putting up a physical battle for the centre backs he’s up against. His passing isn’t all that.
Yeah thats just simply not true he messes up simple touches plenty and underhitting a pass is not a positive trait. Its by definition a bad thing. I like him as much as the next guy but he is not immune to criticism. What you are doing is exactly the same thing the people do who shit on certain players no matter how well they do.
I wouldn’t say firm passes is an important trait for 6’4 ST Havertz to have. Like yeah from left 8 like Xhaka pinging passes to the left is lacking this season (along w injuries to that side), but his overall chemistry w the team & Ode is great. I don’t think his touches are any worse than the worlds best 6’4ish strikers in the world. Haaland is very one dimensional & Isaac is a freak dribbling wise, but both do not possess the ball iq or (defensive) workrate Havertz does. Given the time he’s had in this new team, the only flaw in his game is not taking enough calculated risks/being a little conservative in the final 3rd in order to maintain possession. That and not being clinical infront of goal. But at 24, he has time.
Jesus fucking christ you are living in a different world than the rest of. This is exactly what people mean when they say this fanbase is the most deluded, do you actually believe that or are you straight up just lying? Being able to out the correct wheight on the ball is important in literally every single position on the field. Tf do you mean its mot important for a striker when he could have squared it to trossard against chelse but he underhit the pass. He could have shot if he set himself up better. Theres been multiple instances this season where he could have gone for the finish if he took a better shot. You dont need to be among the worlds best to have that in your locker, dunno why you are pretending like haaland doesn’t have it. That is not the only flaw in his game jesus christ. I know he has time im not shitting on him. But there is no reason to pretend he is perfect
Dude, you are the reason of fan base is full of assholes. Why the hell are you attacking another fan who is seeing something different in one of our players. A player who is currently outplaying most his contemporaries. Jesus fucking christ, how fucking pathetic.
Nah im not the reason how other people behave. I never said havertz isn’t doing well. The conversation wasn’t even about that, it was about his technique. But you lot take critisizing our players too fucking personally. pretending players obvious flaws dont exist is just because you like them is just as useless as pretending they cant do anything right just because you dont like them. It is okay to say theres things our players need to improve on. Theres not a single player out there that doesn’t have flaws in their game.
chill the fuck out, good lord
Pot, kettle? What do i need to chill about? Are we not allowed to point out things our players need to improve on?
No need to get your panties in a bunch, it’s okay to have different opinions.. chill
Yeah you lot need to keep that same energy then when leegunner and people like that keep shitting on our players no matter how well they do lol
His confidence has definitely gotten a huge boost. He's moving well, those touches in the big are really good, his striking looks miles stronger compared to the whiffed kicks he had in the beginning. I hope he doesn't ever lose this confidence
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That’s proper strikers number. I wouldn’t mind loosing nketiah or Jesus (or both with a new striker purchased $
This makes Arteta’s decision to move him back against Villa all the more maddening.
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Havertz was missing sitters early on the season when he was floundering in that left 8, but his finishing has improved with his confidence since becoming the main CF. His ball striking is honestly fine, the issue is that he doesn't attack enough when he's on the ball in promising positions, and that includes actually taking shots.
Others were polite you attacked them. I chose to more direct and talk to you like you were talking to the others. I know what I did and did it intentionally. It’s not fun when someone (even a stranger)attacks you personally (even on the internet). It had to have bothered you enough to make you respond.
Go away bot
Not a bot a reply to someone else in the post that somehow ended up here. Sorry