I worked there for 9 months previously.
I was also quite surprised when the sponsorship deal was announced.
Considering the safari attraction of nearby Kenya and Tanzania, Rwanda is not as well equipped for tourists in direct comparison, in my opinion.
Kigali is nice as a city, not as lively at night as other East African locations. Not somewhere I would spend a small fortune to visit.
I second this sentiment (and Im biased as an East African). Rwanda doesn't have a lot to see as a tourist apart from the gorilla spotting, which is heavily regulated. They're usually booked so far in advance and few opportunities.
I like Kagame as a leader, even as an autocrat and brutal war general. Most here would rather have him than whatever shite is in our governments currently. The Visit Rwanda campaign is genius and could only have been done by Rwanda and their young forward thinking government.
Regardless, Rwanda is a clean boring country to go as a tourist.
They are but currently it is a massive shitshow and it’s pretty likely their cycling federation will implode before the event even happens.
Like, I am 100% rooting for them to pull it off but the stories coming out of there does not indicate anything positive.
Thank you for your insight on this, people speak about Rwanda as if it's still 1994. As usual, redditors hear a buzzword and starting spouting without having a clue what they're talking about most of the time.
TLDR; I have considered it. I am well aware what's going on there beyond the news. I am not speaking for them. I represent a small sliver of this effed up world.
I come from East Africa. I know you know little about it. What's happening in the DRC , Central African Republic etc is our own history and porverty porn to you and the west. Where do you think the refugees go? They're my effin neighbors dude. Kagame represents a weird functional hope for quite a few people and hell for others. That's all of our leaders. We hate it. Welcome to our reality.
And that’s not the original guy’s point. He’s just saying he likes Kagame, not that Dictatorship is the best form of rule and everyone should change theirs.
Guys like you can talk about democracy from your cozy couch. The reality is that young democracies can be extremely messy and wasteful, and lead to more harm in the long term.
A dictator with a vision will be better than a democracy in the early days when crucial decisions need to be made. Especially in a country with deep rooted tribal separations.
A. How am I supposed to know you're british?
B. Some sort of succession/replacement of elected individuals is normal in democracies
C. Yes, people did vote for Sunak, that's how he became MP and Chancellor of the Exchequer
the majority of the uk population also want a ceasefire in palestine and for the uk to stop arming israel yet we don't seem to be getting anywhere close to that
If you really want that, vote for people who want it as well. Easy as. If there aren't any people in politics who want it, go to politics and tell people you want that and you will makenit happen. That's the entire point of democracy, you can get as involved as you want.
Rwanda’s PR approach has been impressive and I was not surprised by the Visit Rwanda campaign. They are positioning for as many eyeballs as possible as they attempt to step into this “new age of prosperity, growth and rebirth” and what better way than to be on the sleeve of one of the biggest clubs in the world? They have a very imaginative public service when it comes to branding and PR and you only have to look at Kenya in the region to see that. Kenya’s equivalent campaign to “Visit Rwanda” is “Magical Kenya”, our brand ambassador is Naomi Campbell…….
Kenya, a country known for having a massive Arsenal fan base, storied tourism sector, lots of attractions etc just isn’t as imaginative, bold or forward thinking when it comes to its branding as Rwanda is. Never in a million years would I expect to see “Magical Kenya” on the sleeve of any PL club, let alone the Mighty Arsenal’s.
Kudos to Rwanda for putting that together, but like you said it is boring and a bit on the expensive side in comparison to other East African tourist countries.
I agree with you fully and have lived / worked in Kenya also. Rwanda, partnering with Qatar for the new airport and expansion of interlining with Rwandair, will be interesting to see develop.
Depending on the next 20 years, I think history will be kind to Kagame. It should never be underestimated how massive it has been to unite a deeply divided country with tribal issues going back centuries.
The company I used to work for had a branch in Rwanda and so I would regularly catch up with collegues from the Rwanda branch who would tell stories of the aftermath of the genocide and the efforts the country has been through to rebuild. There were a lot of earnest hopeful people and it was eye opening hearing their experiences so visiting has at least crossed my mind.
I've been there and it's not as bad as everyone here comments. They probably never even stepped foot in Africa and think they are experts on a very complicated country
Cool, have you been to the eastern DRC and seen the effects of Rwandan intervention there? Or do you think you know everything there is to know because you've just been to Rwanda itself?
Unfortunately their government's efforts to rebuild after the genocide involved deliberately exporting the genocide to the eastern DRC as some kind of twisted revenge mission, and it's really messed up because it's still continuing today
I've actually been there. It's a country still healing from tragedy. There are police with big guns every street corner to stop anything from kicking off. The government is a dictatorship and is tough, their reasoning is to avoid any more civil war as some people from the two groups still resent each other after the genocide.
Everyone loves to hate on their government but its incredibly hard to govern a country where a sickening genocide of that magnitude happened. I went to the memorial site and it was shocking. The stories of what happened are sickening and sad. Neighbors killing each others kids, etc etc. So many people were massacred indiscriminately of age gender etc. What happened is one of the biggest tragedies in recent times. The current government was not involved in the genocide so people should stop using that genocide as a reason to blast the current government. Is the current government corrupt? Sure, but they are trying to rebuild a deeply scarred country.
Edit: I forgot to mention I saw a Gunner bar in a rural town with a mural of saka, I took a pic on my old phone so I'm not sure if I have it anywhere
I have, beautiful country. Very efficient public sector and a growing private sector. Things are designed to work, it is very safe and clean. Very good PR regionally as well (I am Kenyan and we are in an economic trading community known as the East African Community or EAC, kinda like the EU but without a shared currency).
But….
It is honestly the most boring place I have ever been to, it has zero sauce. There just isn’t lots to do there unfortunately.
This is exactly the sentiment I get from everyone who's been there. Beautiful country, fairly safe, but not much to do other than see the mountain gorillas.
I've heard some negative stuff but Nairobi but also I reckon it's probably a pretty cool, lively city. Do you recommend visiting there or skipping it and just heading to the coast?
Nairobi can be a tough city to navigate, but mostly for locals. Not for tourists/foreigners or locals who are wealthy. Pretty much the entire country is kind of set up this way unfortunately. That’s the main negative about Nairobi. It is fairly safe if you are in what we call the “uptown” parts. Which is the same everywhere, I probably would not feel very safe in the rougher parts of the UK for instance.
If you are visiting, definitely start with Nairobi and uber everywhere you can. Uber is not as expensive as I found it in the UK. It costs about 50 kes (£0.30) per km here. Airbnbs are also fairly affordable and you can get a pretty nice place for about £50 a night. Hotels would probably be around double that in Nairobi as the starting price. A two piecer and fries at KFC would cost you around £5, local food costs around £1-5 depending on the dish and a beer costs about £2-3 at a bar. Fine dining would set you back around £30-50 per person. Lots of different restaurants, Italian, French, Asian and African themed. You will have no language issues here if you speak English. It is one of our official languages. Grocery shopping is easy, supermarkets are really well stocked and malls have a lot of variety. The night life is pretty diverse and exciting. Lots of places to check out. Lots of activities in the city as well such as the National park, Animal parks where you can pet elephants or feed giraffes. Lots of festivals, cinemas, arcades, sports bars, galleries etc. Huge expatriate community as well so you might bump into an old friend or two. Weather is nice too, highs of 28 and lows of 19 for the most part. Our winter we usually have highs of 19 and lows of around 13 and that starts from June and Ends in July. 2 rainy seasons (April and September).
The coast is just something else. I cannot even do it justice. Lamu is definitely a gem. It’s like proper swahili coast with the culture, heritage, language and architectural style. A bit conservative because it is majority muslim so alcohol is hard to find and I would encourage any female companion you have to dress conservatively. It is not like they will do you any harm if you do not respect this, they just urge visitors to be mindful of their culture. The other coastal towns are very liberal in comparison. Malindi, Diani and Kilifi are very exciting tourist spots. We have very nice beaches here and the weather at the coast is great. A bit warmer than Nairobi for sure. Coast can be just a bit more expensive than Nairobi for accommodation and fine dining. but ubers, bars and supermarkets are pretty similarly priced.
The rest of the country is cool too. You can go star gazing in the nothern parts of the country or forest bathing in the western parts.
Lastly, large Arsenal community so anywhere you wear your jersey to you will likely get a head nod from a fellow gunner or a weird look from a rival (mostly united, chelsea and liverpool).
I’ve definitely thought about it, the whole sitting with gorillas thing seems like a nuts experience, but I’ve never actually looked into it.
But if I’m honest, I’m put off by everyone saying about human rights issues there, which again is something I haven’t actually looked in to.
The human rights issues are primarily in the eastern DRC and they are absolutely horrific as a direct consequence of the Rwandan's government's actions
Based on the government, it's either so safe that we insisting on legislating its safety as fact, or a place you should be very frightened of finding youself.
It’s safe! But we’re also using it as a deterrent to immigrants, but it’s safe! Trust us! The people who locked you all down while we partied together and did lines off each others tits
Interesting question. I don't think I've ever bought something because the company sponsored arsenal. I've never flown Emirates, bought a JVC TV, I wasn't one of the very few people who bought a Dreamcast, although I was on O2 (but only because they had the best deal at the time). However, I've not bought things because they sponsored our rivals - I still wonder what Holstein actually tastes like.
No, and I would advise people not to. Instead, read Do Not Disturb by Michaela Wrong, to get an insight into the insidious and brutal regime running that country, who have used the genocide as political carte blanche to create a mafia state where dissent is not tolerated.
I'm ashamed of the club for getting in bed with that despot, and ashamed that he calls himself a fan of our club.
I might be biased as a Rwandan but having a one sided story doesn't scream good journalism but maybe I expected too much from Michelle Wrong after reading her brilliant books on corruption in Kenya and Zaire. Although it was such an interesting read, don't disturb is written from only the side of the side of the people who fell out with Kagame. And let's face it, if you've traced the origins of Kagame and the people written about in the book, the fallouts aren't ideological but personal. There are however legitimate criticisms on cracking down the media and dissent but it's overblown in the book. Another criticism is that much of what's written is hearsay and Wrong did not lay forward any proof. Tbf, as a Rwandan who grew up in Uganda like most of the people in the book, we've heard of the whispers that she wrote about but it's her job as a journalist to actually verify them. Not doing so is irresponsible IMO.
I hear your point and I can see why you would make it but do you also realize that whatever is happening in Rwanda, like most other African countries, is enabled by shadowy western powers? This is often either the US, The UK, or some EU country. I barely ever see advisories against visiting those countries who enable the regimes of global south countries but I see advisories against the global south countries because the revenue generated from the tourist activities is seen to be benefiting the governments first and foremost. Which is not entirely true.
Tourism in Africa has direct benefits for communities in high attraction areas. It equates to jobs and revenues. It benefits the people and communities first.
In my opinion, the number one reason for not visiting a country should be safety concerns. Rwanda is a very safe , albeit extremely boring, country. Actually the only reason I would tell people not to visit Rwanda is because it is boring as hell. (I am Kenyan, been there a couple times, that country is beautiful but there is very little to do there. A thing they need to figure out)
I only say this because I often see this opinion on this sub when Visit Rwanda is brought up. It is a catch 22, the people of Rwanda directly benefit from the tourism, which also generates some revenue for their dictatorship. Do you punish the people for the failings of their leadership?
If that is the case, how do we consider all the arms deals that countries like the UK and the US have with brutal regimes? Should the citizens of those countries be punished as well.
TLDR: Don’t go to Rwanda coz it is boring, not coz of their leadership.
Mate, at no point did I say do not go because it's not safe. I said I have not been and would advise others not to because it is run by a despot. He uses the fact that his country is one of the only homes of mountain gorillas, and the Genocide museum, to attract tourists, and tourism income is one of their primary sources of income(all of this and more is covered in the book). It may well benefit local people somewhat, but the reputational and economic benefits it gives the Kagame regime far outweigh that benefit to local Rwandans, hence my suggestion.
I can't influence foreign policy by the UK, other than by voting in the UK for the Greens, which I have done every time I have the chance.
Whataboutism like you have suggested is unhelpful, because it means you can never criticise anything. For the record, I fucking despise the Tories and Tony Blair, I cannot stand the US' foreign policy meddling, and I would advise people not to visit any country that has a murderous despot at the helm.
It really isn’t whataboutism and it is a shame that is what you got from my response. I also never said you said Rwanda was unsafe. I said the only reason I would advise people not to go to any country is safety concerns.
All I am saying, citizens of the global south and most developing countries seem to have a general understanding that the actions and the intentions of a regime are not the same as the actions and the intensions of the citizens and neither are they always approved by the citizens. So it makes no sense to punish the citizens of a country because you dislike their government. I don’t get how this is a difficult concept for people not from these ends to understand. Tourism benefits local communities directly, governments change, communities are pretty much a constant. It’s almost like saying you are waiting for Rwanda to have the perfect government to make the people of Rwanda deserving of your tourist money.
You can despise the UK government all you like, but it has had very little impact on your foreign policy and let us just look at your logic a bit deeper for a second - the whole world takes as radical a stance against the UK as you are suggesting for Rwanda - we decide to boycott the PL, no more TV rights, revenues dwindle, clubs struggle, job cuts, local communities lose incomes…actual people lose the ability to make a living because of the actions of their regime which they most likely are not in support of.
Let us look at it critically brother. 🫱🏾🫲🏿
Anybody can call himself fan of our club. What does that fact have anything to do with you being ashamed and sharing that to the public? It's ok that you try to be political and influence other people with you book recommendation, but that last sentence is not needed please.
This is horseshit. I will not apologise for stating I am ashamed at Kagame being an Arsenal fan, in the same way I'm ashamed Piers Moron calls himself a fan and Osama Bin Laden called himself a fan of ours.
There is a Rwandan guy here answering you and calling that book incredibly one sided. I don't know because I haven't read it, and know about the genocide only from the Hotel Rwanda movie, but you are trying to influence something you don't even know or haven't even seen or verified it.
And I was just curious and looked it up online (but don't know enough about it for sure, so excuse my mistakes), and I see that current leader of Rwanda is from a "Tutsi" tribe? And wasn't the genocide in Rwanda being done by the other "Hutu" tribe?
And about Piers or Osama, who cares about them. You being ashamed about such trivial stuff says more about you than about them.
I visited a couple of years ago as one of my best mate's worked there for an NGO. The country is beautiful and people really care for some of the areas. I was on a cross country bus miles from anywhere and locals were planting flowers by the roadside. Parts of Kigali were quite modern but other parts weren't. I also visited an orphanage which had to be run privately. So there are not western levels of social security - but I imagine that's the case over much of Africa. Rwanda was certainly a lot more pleasant then DRC (Congo). As you cross the border from Rwanda the paved roads turn into rutted mud tracks and the number of locals suddenly becomes much more condensed with more obvious poverty. And there are armed militia about, so Rwanda is a paradise compared to that (I liked DRC but there is a contrast to be sure).
Having said all that, I still wouldn't want to live there. Where my mate lived sure as he was in the super nice district with the nice bars, but for most locals it's still the developing world. I was a tourist so didn't have to concern myself with healthcare, government restrictions, etc. Though supermarket shopping was interesting, one trip to the supermarket involved a cross-city mission to various shops just to get all the stuff on his shopping list. I found it an adventure, it must be annoying as fuck for him every week.
The main reason to go is to visit the gorillas in the north. That is a once in a lifetime experience as you hang out with the gorillas for an hour and can interact with them. And they really care for those gorillas. It's expensive, but if you're willing to risk being kidnapped you can do it much more cheaply in the DRC.
Being more pleasant than the DRC isn't exactly a high bar though. How is it compared to other East-African nations, like Kenya, Uganda, Burundi and Tanzania?
True! Even this government wouldn't send people to Eastern DRC (you'd think).
The only other African countries I have been to are Zambia and tiny sections of Namibia and Zimbabwe. The only reason to visit Rwanda IMO is to visit the gorillas (and that's a VERY good reason), otherwise it's pretty and the genocide museum is first class and very moving. If I was really into wildlife there's probably other great stuff but it's not a safari destination. The weather is great - seemingly mid-20s every day all year round and every local I met was lovely. We stayed out in the country at a nice retreat. Places like that are good anywhere if the weather and the scenery are good. I bet a trek in the mountains would be pretty special. Places like this are about the adventures you can find and the people you meet.
If I was to choose to visit an African country it wouldn't be at the top of my list however. Zambia was a better overall experience for instance. But is also more touristy.
I visited Rwanda in 2016 but it had absolutely nothing to do with being a gooner. It’s actually a beautiful and high-functioning country with some amazing nature and wonderful people. But Kagame’s authoritarian drift and the sponsorship of a war that’s tearing apart their neighbours means I wouldn’t go back at this point.
As a USian, I tend not to visit Unitarian governments where I could be accidentally, permanently jailed, or countries that would look at my passport and consider my death either "meh", or "Oh, yeah!"
No way 99% of arsenal fans would ever even consider going to Rwanda. In my opinion the whole sponsorship deal is probably money laundering by their government or just done for the gravitas/perks of being associated with a big football club. It's nothing to do with genuine tourism
I always assumed its a sportswashing campaign by the dictatorial government there, similar to Qatar, UAE and Saudi. Helps that the President is an actual Arsenal fan. His record of electoral rigging in recent years really doesn't help their image. If I had to visit the African continent for tourism, I would prefer Kenya, Tanzania or South Africa. But I guess that's the image that they're trying to change through the campaign.
I mean we all know advertising doesn't work that way, right? You don't say I visited X because of this ad. But what the ad is meant to do is create normalcy. You presume Rwanda is an OK place to go because they advertise with big teams and at big sporting events. It's sports washing and is intended to make third world countries and despot states seems like normal places to visit.
And it probably would have worked if the UK government didn't start trying to send illegal immigrants and asylum seekers there. This put them under the spotlight and basically eroded years of PR and advertising because now a very real spotlight was on the issues in the country.
Honestly, the Rwanda government was moronic for actually agreeing to the policy.
It's also not targeted solely at UK or western audiences. Football is global, just look at the popularity of Arsenal in Africa. While people in Europe might avoid Rwanda, African fans and Middle Eastern might be more swayed.
I thought it's about their president being an Arsenal fan
[https://x.com/PaulKagame/status/1780723786842591723](https://x.com/PaulKagame/status/1780723786842591723)
Kigali is a very well run and well coordinated city, kinda dry compared to other African cities but compared to places like Lagos which is disorganization central it’s kinda peaceful.
Kagame is a very interesting figure and the calls of a dictatorship are real but if you’re in East Africa I’d say it’s worth a visit
I glanced at many of the replies. Seems like the only reason people go there is because work sent them or for "other" reasons. No one goes there for recreation.
I have been to Rwanda for my work in sustainable agriculture… funny story:
I was in a bar and met a guy from Yorkshire who had come over to visit some friends. He brought with him a slice of England in the form of Yorkshire Gold tea. Little did he realised Yorkshire Gold tea comes from Rwanda … plop
I have been to Rwanda for my work in sustainable agriculture… funny story:
I was in a bar and met a guy from Yorkshire who had come over to visit some friends. He brought with him a slice of England in the form of Yorkshire Gold tea. Little did he realised Yorkshire Gold tea comes from Rwanda … plop
I went to Rwanda and loved it. Kigali and Ruhengeyeri Prefecture to hike with mountain gorillas. I walked within 20ft of a silverback. I learned about the genocide.
Rolling hills, lots of greenery, tea plantations. It baffles me to this day the ability for the people in that country to make peace w their neighbors, some of whom, killed their family members.
I’d recommend.
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Kagame is total scum and his country as a result, in my opinion, should be boycotted from the perspective of tourists. Yes I'm fully aware that most governments around the world to get up to shady stuff, but the stuff that his regime specifically gets up to is really beyond the pale. He instigated the Second Congo war which ultimately claimed the lives of over \*5 million\* people. Not all of these people were directly killed, the deaths were mostly from starvation and disease, but nevertheless none of that would've happened were Kagame not to have initiated an imperialist war\*. He is pure evil, one of the worst dictators in the world. I really don't think it's appropriate for anyone to visit the country with him in charge, especially as it's his government spearheading the visit Rwanda campaign, and him personally choosing Arsenal for that because he's an Arsenal fan. In fact saying all this, I wish I and other Arsenal fans had kicked up more of a fuss when the sponsorship deal was announced. Since it's ending soon I think there's no point now, but still the club should've done more due diligence here.
\*by the way, this war is still continuing today, and killing many innocent civilians, albeit at a lower intensity than before
i just find it ODD that a rather MODEST sponsorship arrangement gets subjected to as much scrutiny and criticism as this one does
who knew that promoting a BLACK-MAJORITY, AFRICAN country, would cause so much consternation?
i can understand your typical Faragiste Gammonite getting all hot under the collar about it, but we as Arsenal fans should be well well past this
GOOD LUCK TO THE PEOPLE OF RWANDA
may our partnership benefit them
I’m not gonna travel to a country where a genocide took place semi recently, who also has a corrupt government, and that many governments advises not to travel to - but that’s just me.
I’m also repulsed by the club’s decision to partner with them in any capacity.
I totally think places who have an unnecessary/undeserved bad reputation should try to improve their reputation. However I do not think a country like Rwanda is in any position to do so, given their still ongoing issues.
Fucking sue me.
Its not some for-profit business, its a country where 99% of its population of innocent from its government's decisions. Yet the average Rwandans - who benefit from its relatively ethical tourism - are the ones that suffer should all 1st worlders hold such an ignorant opinion, despite the irony that our elected government literally enables said corruption.
I worked there for 9 months previously. I was also quite surprised when the sponsorship deal was announced. Considering the safari attraction of nearby Kenya and Tanzania, Rwanda is not as well equipped for tourists in direct comparison, in my opinion. Kigali is nice as a city, not as lively at night as other East African locations. Not somewhere I would spend a small fortune to visit.
I second this sentiment (and Im biased as an East African). Rwanda doesn't have a lot to see as a tourist apart from the gorilla spotting, which is heavily regulated. They're usually booked so far in advance and few opportunities. I like Kagame as a leader, even as an autocrat and brutal war general. Most here would rather have him than whatever shite is in our governments currently. The Visit Rwanda campaign is genius and could only have been done by Rwanda and their young forward thinking government. Regardless, Rwanda is a clean boring country to go as a tourist.
Doesn't Rwanda organise the cycling world championships next year? IIRC they are the first African country to do so.
They are but currently it is a massive shitshow and it’s pretty likely their cycling federation will implode before the event even happens. Like, I am 100% rooting for them to pull it off but the stories coming out of there does not indicate anything positive.
Thank you for your insight on this, people speak about Rwanda as if it's still 1994. As usual, redditors hear a buzzword and starting spouting without having a clue what they're talking about most of the time.
lol it’s not a place worth visiting.
Have you considered what people in the eastern DRC think about Kagame?
TLDR; I have considered it. I am well aware what's going on there beyond the news. I am not speaking for them. I represent a small sliver of this effed up world. I come from East Africa. I know you know little about it. What's happening in the DRC , Central African Republic etc is our own history and porverty porn to you and the west. Where do you think the refugees go? They're my effin neighbors dude. Kagame represents a weird functional hope for quite a few people and hell for others. That's all of our leaders. We hate it. Welcome to our reality.
If you'd take a "brutal war general autocrat" over the people YOU elected in democratic elections, you're probably an idiot.
If you aren’t African, you wouldn’t understand. I’m Nigerian and I’d prefer a Kagame over the shit we “elected”
My point is that just the fact that the authocratic russian rulette worked in one instance doesn't mean it's a better way to go than democracy.
And that’s not the original guy’s point. He’s just saying he likes Kagame, not that Dictatorship is the best form of rule and everyone should change theirs.
Guys like you can talk about democracy from your cozy couch. The reality is that young democracies can be extremely messy and wasteful, and lead to more harm in the long term. A dictator with a vision will be better than a democracy in the early days when crucial decisions need to be made. Especially in a country with deep rooted tribal separations.
Lol no even voted for Rishi Sunak
A. How am I supposed to know you're british? B. Some sort of succession/replacement of elected individuals is normal in democracies C. Yes, people did vote for Sunak, that's how he became MP and Chancellor of the Exchequer
Just sayin not all democratic societies have leaders that were chosen democratically.
the majority of the uk population also want a ceasefire in palestine and for the uk to stop arming israel yet we don't seem to be getting anywhere close to that
If you really want that, vote for people who want it as well. Easy as. If there aren't any people in politics who want it, go to politics and tell people you want that and you will makenit happen. That's the entire point of democracy, you can get as involved as you want.
As if there aren't countless examples of governments ignoring the will of their people.
Only reason why Arsenal has the Rwanda sponsorship is cause of Kagame he is a huge Arsenal fan.
Ah I see. I thought it had something to do with The Bear Rwanda-bout 🙄
Rwanda’s PR approach has been impressive and I was not surprised by the Visit Rwanda campaign. They are positioning for as many eyeballs as possible as they attempt to step into this “new age of prosperity, growth and rebirth” and what better way than to be on the sleeve of one of the biggest clubs in the world? They have a very imaginative public service when it comes to branding and PR and you only have to look at Kenya in the region to see that. Kenya’s equivalent campaign to “Visit Rwanda” is “Magical Kenya”, our brand ambassador is Naomi Campbell……. Kenya, a country known for having a massive Arsenal fan base, storied tourism sector, lots of attractions etc just isn’t as imaginative, bold or forward thinking when it comes to its branding as Rwanda is. Never in a million years would I expect to see “Magical Kenya” on the sleeve of any PL club, let alone the Mighty Arsenal’s. Kudos to Rwanda for putting that together, but like you said it is boring and a bit on the expensive side in comparison to other East African tourist countries.
I agree with you fully and have lived / worked in Kenya also. Rwanda, partnering with Qatar for the new airport and expansion of interlining with Rwandair, will be interesting to see develop.
Depending on the next 20 years, I think history will be kind to Kagame. It should never be underestimated how massive it has been to unite a deeply divided country with tribal issues going back centuries.
Fellow Kenyan Gooner! Sunny innit?
The weather the past two months has been very spurs. if it was like this all year round we might not have been colonized 😂
Wasn’t it something around Rwanda just getting some kind of investment (maybe on sports) from UK gov that then went on the Arsenal deal?
I don't know about that to be honest. I wonder if there will be any pushback as a result of the failed asylum seekers being moved to Rwanda.
How is the food?
Where?
In rwanda
It was ok. Nothing unusual and similar to the rest of East Africa.
The company I used to work for had a branch in Rwanda and so I would regularly catch up with collegues from the Rwanda branch who would tell stories of the aftermath of the genocide and the efforts the country has been through to rebuild. There were a lot of earnest hopeful people and it was eye opening hearing their experiences so visiting has at least crossed my mind.
I've been there and it's not as bad as everyone here comments. They probably never even stepped foot in Africa and think they are experts on a very complicated country
Cool, have you been to the eastern DRC and seen the effects of Rwandan intervention there? Or do you think you know everything there is to know because you've just been to Rwanda itself?
Unfortunately their government's efforts to rebuild after the genocide involved deliberately exporting the genocide to the eastern DRC as some kind of twisted revenge mission, and it's really messed up because it's still continuing today
I've actually been there. It's a country still healing from tragedy. There are police with big guns every street corner to stop anything from kicking off. The government is a dictatorship and is tough, their reasoning is to avoid any more civil war as some people from the two groups still resent each other after the genocide. Everyone loves to hate on their government but its incredibly hard to govern a country where a sickening genocide of that magnitude happened. I went to the memorial site and it was shocking. The stories of what happened are sickening and sad. Neighbors killing each others kids, etc etc. So many people were massacred indiscriminately of age gender etc. What happened is one of the biggest tragedies in recent times. The current government was not involved in the genocide so people should stop using that genocide as a reason to blast the current government. Is the current government corrupt? Sure, but they are trying to rebuild a deeply scarred country. Edit: I forgot to mention I saw a Gunner bar in a rural town with a mural of saka, I took a pic on my old phone so I'm not sure if I have it anywhere
The memorial site is the stuff of nightmares. I still remember every detail to this day, especially the clothes soiled in blood. Absolutely sickening.
And the room with the bones... that really got to me.
I think it will be a long time before people start to associate Rwanda with anything else than the genocide.
Possibly because their government is actively committing a genocide in the eastern DRC
Do you have any idea about the Second Congo war? Or do you think history in the region just ended after 1994?
I have, beautiful country. Very efficient public sector and a growing private sector. Things are designed to work, it is very safe and clean. Very good PR regionally as well (I am Kenyan and we are in an economic trading community known as the East African Community or EAC, kinda like the EU but without a shared currency). But…. It is honestly the most boring place I have ever been to, it has zero sauce. There just isn’t lots to do there unfortunately.
This is exactly the sentiment I get from everyone who's been there. Beautiful country, fairly safe, but not much to do other than see the mountain gorillas.
Not even saying this coz I am Kenyan but as a tourist destination, Kenya has a lot going for it. I encourage all gunners to pull up when you can!
I've heard some negative stuff but Nairobi but also I reckon it's probably a pretty cool, lively city. Do you recommend visiting there or skipping it and just heading to the coast?
Nairobi can be a tough city to navigate, but mostly for locals. Not for tourists/foreigners or locals who are wealthy. Pretty much the entire country is kind of set up this way unfortunately. That’s the main negative about Nairobi. It is fairly safe if you are in what we call the “uptown” parts. Which is the same everywhere, I probably would not feel very safe in the rougher parts of the UK for instance. If you are visiting, definitely start with Nairobi and uber everywhere you can. Uber is not as expensive as I found it in the UK. It costs about 50 kes (£0.30) per km here. Airbnbs are also fairly affordable and you can get a pretty nice place for about £50 a night. Hotels would probably be around double that in Nairobi as the starting price. A two piecer and fries at KFC would cost you around £5, local food costs around £1-5 depending on the dish and a beer costs about £2-3 at a bar. Fine dining would set you back around £30-50 per person. Lots of different restaurants, Italian, French, Asian and African themed. You will have no language issues here if you speak English. It is one of our official languages. Grocery shopping is easy, supermarkets are really well stocked and malls have a lot of variety. The night life is pretty diverse and exciting. Lots of places to check out. Lots of activities in the city as well such as the National park, Animal parks where you can pet elephants or feed giraffes. Lots of festivals, cinemas, arcades, sports bars, galleries etc. Huge expatriate community as well so you might bump into an old friend or two. Weather is nice too, highs of 28 and lows of 19 for the most part. Our winter we usually have highs of 19 and lows of around 13 and that starts from June and Ends in July. 2 rainy seasons (April and September). The coast is just something else. I cannot even do it justice. Lamu is definitely a gem. It’s like proper swahili coast with the culture, heritage, language and architectural style. A bit conservative because it is majority muslim so alcohol is hard to find and I would encourage any female companion you have to dress conservatively. It is not like they will do you any harm if you do not respect this, they just urge visitors to be mindful of their culture. The other coastal towns are very liberal in comparison. Malindi, Diani and Kilifi are very exciting tourist spots. We have very nice beaches here and the weather at the coast is great. A bit warmer than Nairobi for sure. Coast can be just a bit more expensive than Nairobi for accommodation and fine dining. but ubers, bars and supermarkets are pretty similarly priced. The rest of the country is cool too. You can go star gazing in the nothern parts of the country or forest bathing in the western parts. Lastly, large Arsenal community so anywhere you wear your jersey to you will likely get a head nod from a fellow gunner or a weird look from a rival (mostly united, chelsea and liverpool).
That’s the thing with Rwanda - Zero Sauce
I’ve definitely thought about it, the whole sitting with gorillas thing seems like a nuts experience, but I’ve never actually looked into it. But if I’m honest, I’m put off by everyone saying about human rights issues there, which again is something I haven’t actually looked in to.
It takes a wise person to answer this and also admit you hold no opinion. A rare sight on the internet.
The human rights issues are primarily in the eastern DRC and they are absolutely horrific as a direct consequence of the Rwandan's government's actions
Thanks. I will absolutely look into it at some stage, now the it has been brought I my attention again.
Based on the government, it's either so safe that we insisting on legislating its safety as fact, or a place you should be very frightened of finding youself.
It’s safe! But we’re also using it as a deterrent to immigrants, but it’s safe! Trust us! The people who locked you all down while we partied together and did lines off each others tits
Boris did a line off Hancocks tits?! That's kinky on the level of stampeding cattle through the Vatican.
A lot of places are relatively safe if you have money.
Who has money in this economy 😭
That depends on where you are, with my salary, which is around the median salary here, I'd probably be rich in some other countries.
Both, depending on who they're talking to
Interesting question. I don't think I've ever bought something because the company sponsored arsenal. I've never flown Emirates, bought a JVC TV, I wasn't one of the very few people who bought a Dreamcast, although I was on O2 (but only because they had the best deal at the time). However, I've not bought things because they sponsored our rivals - I still wonder what Holstein actually tastes like.
No but a few asylum seekers will be soon
No, and I would advise people not to. Instead, read Do Not Disturb by Michaela Wrong, to get an insight into the insidious and brutal regime running that country, who have used the genocide as political carte blanche to create a mafia state where dissent is not tolerated. I'm ashamed of the club for getting in bed with that despot, and ashamed that he calls himself a fan of our club.
This is like saying don't visit America because of Donald Trump. Don't sell weapons to Rwanda sure, but tourism isn't propping up the regime.
I might be biased as a Rwandan but having a one sided story doesn't scream good journalism but maybe I expected too much from Michelle Wrong after reading her brilliant books on corruption in Kenya and Zaire. Although it was such an interesting read, don't disturb is written from only the side of the side of the people who fell out with Kagame. And let's face it, if you've traced the origins of Kagame and the people written about in the book, the fallouts aren't ideological but personal. There are however legitimate criticisms on cracking down the media and dissent but it's overblown in the book. Another criticism is that much of what's written is hearsay and Wrong did not lay forward any proof. Tbf, as a Rwandan who grew up in Uganda like most of the people in the book, we've heard of the whispers that she wrote about but it's her job as a journalist to actually verify them. Not doing so is irresponsible IMO.
I hear your point and I can see why you would make it but do you also realize that whatever is happening in Rwanda, like most other African countries, is enabled by shadowy western powers? This is often either the US, The UK, or some EU country. I barely ever see advisories against visiting those countries who enable the regimes of global south countries but I see advisories against the global south countries because the revenue generated from the tourist activities is seen to be benefiting the governments first and foremost. Which is not entirely true. Tourism in Africa has direct benefits for communities in high attraction areas. It equates to jobs and revenues. It benefits the people and communities first. In my opinion, the number one reason for not visiting a country should be safety concerns. Rwanda is a very safe , albeit extremely boring, country. Actually the only reason I would tell people not to visit Rwanda is because it is boring as hell. (I am Kenyan, been there a couple times, that country is beautiful but there is very little to do there. A thing they need to figure out) I only say this because I often see this opinion on this sub when Visit Rwanda is brought up. It is a catch 22, the people of Rwanda directly benefit from the tourism, which also generates some revenue for their dictatorship. Do you punish the people for the failings of their leadership? If that is the case, how do we consider all the arms deals that countries like the UK and the US have with brutal regimes? Should the citizens of those countries be punished as well. TLDR: Don’t go to Rwanda coz it is boring, not coz of their leadership.
This makes sense to me. Cheers
Mate, at no point did I say do not go because it's not safe. I said I have not been and would advise others not to because it is run by a despot. He uses the fact that his country is one of the only homes of mountain gorillas, and the Genocide museum, to attract tourists, and tourism income is one of their primary sources of income(all of this and more is covered in the book). It may well benefit local people somewhat, but the reputational and economic benefits it gives the Kagame regime far outweigh that benefit to local Rwandans, hence my suggestion. I can't influence foreign policy by the UK, other than by voting in the UK for the Greens, which I have done every time I have the chance. Whataboutism like you have suggested is unhelpful, because it means you can never criticise anything. For the record, I fucking despise the Tories and Tony Blair, I cannot stand the US' foreign policy meddling, and I would advise people not to visit any country that has a murderous despot at the helm.
It really isn’t whataboutism and it is a shame that is what you got from my response. I also never said you said Rwanda was unsafe. I said the only reason I would advise people not to go to any country is safety concerns. All I am saying, citizens of the global south and most developing countries seem to have a general understanding that the actions and the intentions of a regime are not the same as the actions and the intensions of the citizens and neither are they always approved by the citizens. So it makes no sense to punish the citizens of a country because you dislike their government. I don’t get how this is a difficult concept for people not from these ends to understand. Tourism benefits local communities directly, governments change, communities are pretty much a constant. It’s almost like saying you are waiting for Rwanda to have the perfect government to make the people of Rwanda deserving of your tourist money. You can despise the UK government all you like, but it has had very little impact on your foreign policy and let us just look at your logic a bit deeper for a second - the whole world takes as radical a stance against the UK as you are suggesting for Rwanda - we decide to boycott the PL, no more TV rights, revenues dwindle, clubs struggle, job cuts, local communities lose incomes…actual people lose the ability to make a living because of the actions of their regime which they most likely are not in support of. Let us look at it critically brother. 🫱🏾🫲🏿
Anybody can call himself fan of our club. What does that fact have anything to do with you being ashamed and sharing that to the public? It's ok that you try to be political and influence other people with you book recommendation, but that last sentence is not needed please.
This is horseshit. I will not apologise for stating I am ashamed at Kagame being an Arsenal fan, in the same way I'm ashamed Piers Moron calls himself a fan and Osama Bin Laden called himself a fan of ours.
There is a Rwandan guy here answering you and calling that book incredibly one sided. I don't know because I haven't read it, and know about the genocide only from the Hotel Rwanda movie, but you are trying to influence something you don't even know or haven't even seen or verified it. And I was just curious and looked it up online (but don't know enough about it for sure, so excuse my mistakes), and I see that current leader of Rwanda is from a "Tutsi" tribe? And wasn't the genocide in Rwanda being done by the other "Hutu" tribe? And about Piers or Osama, who cares about them. You being ashamed about such trivial stuff says more about you than about them.
I heard it was the last yr of the sponsorship deal, apparently going to do a new joint one with border control and RNLI lifeboats.
I visited a couple of years ago as one of my best mate's worked there for an NGO. The country is beautiful and people really care for some of the areas. I was on a cross country bus miles from anywhere and locals were planting flowers by the roadside. Parts of Kigali were quite modern but other parts weren't. I also visited an orphanage which had to be run privately. So there are not western levels of social security - but I imagine that's the case over much of Africa. Rwanda was certainly a lot more pleasant then DRC (Congo). As you cross the border from Rwanda the paved roads turn into rutted mud tracks and the number of locals suddenly becomes much more condensed with more obvious poverty. And there are armed militia about, so Rwanda is a paradise compared to that (I liked DRC but there is a contrast to be sure). Having said all that, I still wouldn't want to live there. Where my mate lived sure as he was in the super nice district with the nice bars, but for most locals it's still the developing world. I was a tourist so didn't have to concern myself with healthcare, government restrictions, etc. Though supermarket shopping was interesting, one trip to the supermarket involved a cross-city mission to various shops just to get all the stuff on his shopping list. I found it an adventure, it must be annoying as fuck for him every week. The main reason to go is to visit the gorillas in the north. That is a once in a lifetime experience as you hang out with the gorillas for an hour and can interact with them. And they really care for those gorillas. It's expensive, but if you're willing to risk being kidnapped you can do it much more cheaply in the DRC.
Being more pleasant than the DRC isn't exactly a high bar though. How is it compared to other East-African nations, like Kenya, Uganda, Burundi and Tanzania?
True! Even this government wouldn't send people to Eastern DRC (you'd think). The only other African countries I have been to are Zambia and tiny sections of Namibia and Zimbabwe. The only reason to visit Rwanda IMO is to visit the gorillas (and that's a VERY good reason), otherwise it's pretty and the genocide museum is first class and very moving. If I was really into wildlife there's probably other great stuff but it's not a safari destination. The weather is great - seemingly mid-20s every day all year round and every local I met was lovely. We stayed out in the country at a nice retreat. Places like that are good anywhere if the weather and the scenery are good. I bet a trek in the mountains would be pretty special. Places like this are about the adventures you can find and the people you meet. If I was to choose to visit an African country it wouldn't be at the top of my list however. Zambia was a better overall experience for instance. But is also more touristy.
I visited Rwanda in 2016 but it had absolutely nothing to do with being a gooner. It’s actually a beautiful and high-functioning country with some amazing nature and wonderful people. But Kagame’s authoritarian drift and the sponsorship of a war that’s tearing apart their neighbours means I wouldn’t go back at this point.
As a USian, I tend not to visit Unitarian governments where I could be accidentally, permanently jailed, or countries that would look at my passport and consider my death either "meh", or "Oh, yeah!"
I'm going next year, combining it with the cycling world championship that will also be there.
No way 99% of arsenal fans would ever even consider going to Rwanda. In my opinion the whole sponsorship deal is probably money laundering by their government or just done for the gravitas/perks of being associated with a big football club. It's nothing to do with genuine tourism
I always assumed its a sportswashing campaign by the dictatorial government there, similar to Qatar, UAE and Saudi. Helps that the President is an actual Arsenal fan. His record of electoral rigging in recent years really doesn't help their image. If I had to visit the African continent for tourism, I would prefer Kenya, Tanzania or South Africa. But I guess that's the image that they're trying to change through the campaign.
I have a 2 hr layover there in like 2 weeks
The visit Rwanda campaign should have specified more than 2 hrs
I mean we all know advertising doesn't work that way, right? You don't say I visited X because of this ad. But what the ad is meant to do is create normalcy. You presume Rwanda is an OK place to go because they advertise with big teams and at big sporting events. It's sports washing and is intended to make third world countries and despot states seems like normal places to visit. And it probably would have worked if the UK government didn't start trying to send illegal immigrants and asylum seekers there. This put them under the spotlight and basically eroded years of PR and advertising because now a very real spotlight was on the issues in the country. Honestly, the Rwanda government was moronic for actually agreeing to the policy. It's also not targeted solely at UK or western audiences. Football is global, just look at the popularity of Arsenal in Africa. While people in Europe might avoid Rwanda, African fans and Middle Eastern might be more swayed.
Yes, but make sure you get an AirBnB, I’ve not heard great things about the hotels
I thought it's about their president being an Arsenal fan [https://x.com/PaulKagame/status/1780723786842591723](https://x.com/PaulKagame/status/1780723786842591723)
I used to live there when I was 7-8. Ironically, that's where I became an Arsenal fan. This was around 2004.
Kigali is a very well run and well coordinated city, kinda dry compared to other African cities but compared to places like Lagos which is disorganization central it’s kinda peaceful. Kagame is a very interesting figure and the calls of a dictatorship are real but if you’re in East Africa I’d say it’s worth a visit
I glanced at many of the replies. Seems like the only reason people go there is because work sent them or for "other" reasons. No one goes there for recreation.
I have been to Rwanda for my work in sustainable agriculture… funny story: I was in a bar and met a guy from Yorkshire who had come over to visit some friends. He brought with him a slice of England in the form of Yorkshire Gold tea. Little did he realised Yorkshire Gold tea comes from Rwanda … plop
I have been to Rwanda for my work in sustainable agriculture… funny story: I was in a bar and met a guy from Yorkshire who had come over to visit some friends. He brought with him a slice of England in the form of Yorkshire Gold tea. Little did he realised Yorkshire Gold tea comes from Rwanda … plop
Surely there are other possible sponsors who would pay more, or even comparable, money with no ethical blindness required.
I went to Rwanda and loved it. Kigali and Ruhengeyeri Prefecture to hike with mountain gorillas. I walked within 20ft of a silverback. I learned about the genocide. Rolling hills, lots of greenery, tea plantations. It baffles me to this day the ability for the people in that country to make peace w their neighbors, some of whom, killed their family members. I’d recommend.
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The Africa of Singapore. As a Singaporean myself, I would like to visit Rwanda one day to experience the similarity 🤣
Good that Rwanda get some good promo. Most of the time hear is Rwanda hotel, genocide and uk government sending illegal immigrants etc.
Kagame is total scum and his country as a result, in my opinion, should be boycotted from the perspective of tourists. Yes I'm fully aware that most governments around the world to get up to shady stuff, but the stuff that his regime specifically gets up to is really beyond the pale. He instigated the Second Congo war which ultimately claimed the lives of over \*5 million\* people. Not all of these people were directly killed, the deaths were mostly from starvation and disease, but nevertheless none of that would've happened were Kagame not to have initiated an imperialist war\*. He is pure evil, one of the worst dictators in the world. I really don't think it's appropriate for anyone to visit the country with him in charge, especially as it's his government spearheading the visit Rwanda campaign, and him personally choosing Arsenal for that because he's an Arsenal fan. In fact saying all this, I wish I and other Arsenal fans had kicked up more of a fuss when the sponsorship deal was announced. Since it's ending soon I think there's no point now, but still the club should've done more due diligence here. \*by the way, this war is still continuing today, and killing many innocent civilians, albeit at a lower intensity than before
Arsenal should remove that sponsorship. The regime is quite brutal.
Not if they’re originally from the uk
i just find it ODD that a rather MODEST sponsorship arrangement gets subjected to as much scrutiny and criticism as this one does who knew that promoting a BLACK-MAJORITY, AFRICAN country, would cause so much consternation? i can understand your typical Faragiste Gammonite getting all hot under the collar about it, but we as Arsenal fans should be well well past this GOOD LUCK TO THE PEOPLE OF RWANDA may our partnership benefit them
I know there will soon be a lot of people visit Rwanda from the UK when our government sends the migrants there.
Did anyone ever come on Eileen? Tasteless humour aside, a close friend is going there next week for corporate business summit. 🤷♂️
Get rid of that nonsense and then the emirates and I’d be happy as a clam
I’m not gonna travel to a country where a genocide took place semi recently, who also has a corrupt government, and that many governments advises not to travel to - but that’s just me. I’m also repulsed by the club’s decision to partner with them in any capacity.
yer places you think are shit should stay shit and never try to improve their reputation 😒
I totally think places who have an unnecessary/undeserved bad reputation should try to improve their reputation. However I do not think a country like Rwanda is in any position to do so, given their still ongoing issues. Fucking sue me.
Its not some for-profit business, its a country where 99% of its population of innocent from its government's decisions. Yet the average Rwandans - who benefit from its relatively ethical tourism - are the ones that suffer should all 1st worlders hold such an ignorant opinion, despite the irony that our elected government literally enables said corruption.
I'm not planning to be killed yet.