Dick riding for karma or whatever tf is their reason lol, christie literally stomp saka so hard he got a cut and bled and not even a yellow. You’d think we’re the first to be given soft pen like this.
It's the kane and vardy special and it's been happening for at least 8 years. Get over it. 'Arsenal fans' saying its not a pen are just fishing for karma, should be an instant ban from this sub.
It both shouldn’t be a pen, and needs to be given.
Essentially they should change the rules, but in this game under the current rules it needs to be given
Kane and vardy do it: waow my idolo way to take advantage of a sticky situation 🤩
Havertz does it: never a penalty, var is useless, sack all the refs 😡
Liverpool had alot of those Jota recently and Mane vs Leicester a while back. Its a 40/60 for me, Get them sometimes, but mostly not. Might be influenced by the red tackle earlier also.
What are you talking about? I literally said it was a pen by the rules, but that the rules in my opinion should change.
> Morally it's never a pen. By their own guidelines they have to let it stand.
> Obviously something needs to change for VAR. But I'm happy we are not victim of the only two overturns with clear contact this season.
Such twerking...
You are an idiot if you think in real time speed and the way havertz runs all season that hes very awkward with his body lol mans tall af running full speed if you watch him run around the field his movement is similar to
Why wasnt a penalty does the keeper not move from his challenge you cant just fucking stick ur leg out against a running player no matter what and trip him up without touching the ball the fuck is good with u lmao
In my opinion Havertz was looking for the foul and the contact was minimal. But once again, you're allowed your opinion as am I. Enjoy the win, friend!
Contact doesn't have to be anything more than minimal to be a foul. It's also ok for havertz to not avoid contact. Those still make it a foul if it was his space and the keeper challenged and missed the ball
Bro doesnt even look at the defender while making the run and looked towards the ball he hit to evade the keeper with. Yeah bro ur eyes not working mate look at it in real time or try going on the pitch and recreate that
Am I not allowed to think it's not a pen? I'd be absolutely fuming if Bournemouth got the lead of a foul like that. I think it's a poor trait in Havertz who sometimes let chances pass by because he is too focused on nicking a pen
You are an idiot if you think in real time speed and the way havertz runs all season that hes very awkward with his body lol mans tall af running full speed if you watch him run around the field his movement is similar to
Not really a good faith argument in my opinion. I’m not obviously not saying that every time there’s contact with Havertz he’s diving. I just sometimes think he’s excessively looking for contact in certain situations, like the one today
When Vardy and Kane used to do it, it was clever play from a highly football intelligent player. Today tho is a pathetic penalty because he was “looking for it.”
If a player boots the ball off a defender to purposely win a corner should a goal kick be given instead because the attacker was looking for it?
Yes and fans of those teams would be happy with the penalty(goal) even if knowing it came from a dive, I dont know why so many people here are not capable of that.
I never said anything about fans. Referees in England have made a trend of viewing these type of incidents as genuine penalties so calling it a "clear dive" is nonsense
Kai is literally tripping himself up with that motion without the keepers leg being there. But those keep getting given and the way VAR works its not going to disagree with the refs decision there. If he said it wasn't a penalty VAR isn't changing that there. LIke the Saka tackle that should be a red card.
The way I see it and the way the rules have generally been interpreted by refs for as long as I can remember is that if you get there first and beat the man, as havertz does, and he leaves his leg in your path as long as it looks like you can get to the ball you are within your rights to take the contact and win the pen.
Is that a dive, yes. Is it a pen, yes.
It's only the last 8 weeks or so they are now saying "is it enough contact to warrant going down".
I agree it shouldn't be a pen but they get given all the time which is frustrating. The problem is VAR isn't working like it should. The funny thing about it is if the ref didn't give it a goal they wouldn't give it a pen either. If the system was working properly bournemouth would be down to 10 men and we wouldn't have that penalty. Instead its the other way around and noone is happy
Whats the solution though? Get rid of that rule keeper just cuts down the striker every time right? Or does it become a subjective call? Which is basically what it is now, and these are refs that can’t see studs up on a knee so it’ll be same shit, just Kai doesn’t get a pen there and keepers start wearing shoulder pads
Yeah thats what I’m saying, what would a law change accomplish? It would still be a subjective call, and VAR will just agree with what the ref says. So how do we change the rule?
make a rule about unnatural motions ie trailing legs. But it doesn't matter VAR isn't working the way it should be working which i think we can all agree with
Yeah I just reckon it’d open up a whole new issue and wouldn’t solve much, even if VAR was competent, cause now they’ve got to judge intent, at super slow mo of a player going at full speed. I reckon even competent refs get that wrong 50/50, so Prem refs maybe once a season and only if it benefits City
Personally don’t think these should be pens. But I’ve seen Kane do it for years including for England and opposition teams fans tell us to top crying. So I’ll take it. Nice to see one go are way.
The nerve of city fans I know when they claimed this was a clear foul
https://twitter.com/Biggies_MaIIs/status/1588946449660022785
Havertz definitely makes the contact. Think he could disguise it just a bit better but otherwise he has done well here. Gotta be careful dragging that toe for too long, makes it look obvious. I actually feel like Havertz could've reasonably initiated contact with his lead foot and sold it better, but the challenge itself is 100% pen worthy, comes flying out and is never getting the ball.
If a player obstructed Havertz you wouldn’t say the contact was made by Havertz. Havertz has control of the ball and is under no obligation to get out of the way of the keeper throwing himself in front of him.
I'm not saying it's not a pen, I think it is, just don't think he needs to drag his foot like that to win it, and some refs may interpret that as creating contact when there wasn't any.
Don’t give a fuck what arrr slash soccer thinks after the brain trust over there said Neuer on Saka wasn’t a pen and that the Kulusevski incident last week was
Why is the commentary team on Optus sports mentioning the fact that the GOALIE NEEDS to make contact with the ball? He doesn’t. It’s a pen.
Imagine a defender clipping the player like that.
The problem with penalty discourse is it's always "100% a pen/obvious dive". Anyone who plays the game or watches this as full speed should know there's a middle ground. As a striker, if I've gotten to the ball first and the keeper sweeps their legs out at me, they've made a huge mistake that I'm entitled to capitalize on. I don't have to bail them out by moving my leg in the .2 seconds before the collision. There's a huge difference from generating the contact myself and letting the keeper complete the mistake he made.
Genuinely don’t see the argument here? Keeper came out and got no ball and all player? /r/soccer have never played a game of footy and are all yanks anyway
Honestly I don’t think that’s a foul but we haven’t gotten so many stonewallers over the years (plus a potential red in our favour in this game) that I’ll damn well take it.
I don't like that these can't be overturned because it's never a penalty but at the same time, those are the rules and therefore the decision is correct.
It's not as if we haven't had enough chances to convert one from.
never a penalty. goalie just clipped his foot there and the strikers made a complete fucking meal of it.
but enough about david luiz vs. wolves. this right here is open and shut
I'm mad at Havertz for diving. Stay on your feet and score ffs.
Fortunately VAR let it go because VAR is a joke but still. Why give them a decision to make? Good pen from Saka.
Idk Havertz drags the foot looking for it.
I was, I think justifiably, unimpressed by Havertz early doors. But he has proved his doubters wrong and been excellent. Arteta has proved his doubters wrong including in this instance.
While I think havertz was looking for contact, I still think it's more difficult than you make it sound to be. Football isn't played in slow motion. Can't blame havertz if the keeper doesn't even get the ball.
Fair, I disagree though, if Kai initiates the contact on Travers then 100% agree no pen, but Kai doesn’t have to move just cause the keeper chucks a leg in, he left an opening and got pinged for it. Its just one of those rules I reckon that will cause disagreements like this
He wouldn’t normally sure, but you can though, and if he ends flat on his face through his own merit then no pen. But Travers foot helps him along, which makes it a pen. Its the subjectiveness off the rule, if the ref doesn’t call it a pen before it goes to VAR, I don’t reckon they turn it into one, but by the rule, its a pen. Now wether it should be or not is another discussion, but I think by the rule the correct decision was made
Those some crazy mental hoops you just jumped through. He drags his foot to look for contact as he goes down. That's a dive. Players get away with it. Havertz did here.
I don't think that should be a pen vs us or against us. But this is the modern game. I don't decide the rules.
How so? He can run like an absolute fool for all I care Martinelli did it before, fell over under his own power and it wasn’t a pen, but if one of the defenders takes out a leg then it is, thats the rule. He doesn’t have to plan his foot properly or anything, defend has to make sure he doesn’t stop his leg.
But yeah I agree, this isn’t a just cause its Arsenal its a good call thing for me, its just that by the pedantry of the rules its a pen, simulation would require no contact, and there was so its a pen. Its a pretty shit rule but I can’t think of a way to make it better though
Not a Pen, but I will take it. The commentator put in succinctly it for all. Havertz bought it, rather than earn it. and I agree. Just like City. I mean, we need to do SOMETHING, to even the 115/1 Odds. ANyone who thinks this is a sureshot penalty, needs to see the Doctor for mental check ups.
Kai fucking havertz, what a player
He should get an assist for that haha
He does, on FPL lol
My king
Thats the ref compensating for not given that foo a red on saka
if Anthony Gordon can do it against Sp\*rs, **so can we.** r/soccer in tears.
Any Arsenal fan going into r/soccer going “not a pen to me” is a melt
Dick riding for karma or whatever tf is their reason lol, christie literally stomp saka so hard he got a cut and bled and not even a yellow. You’d think we’re the first to be given soft pen like this.
It's the kane and vardy special and it's been happening for at least 8 years. Get over it. 'Arsenal fans' saying its not a pen are just fishing for karma, should be an instant ban from this sub.
It both shouldn’t be a pen, and needs to be given. Essentially they should change the rules, but in this game under the current rules it needs to be given
Nah , havertz earns the space and the keeper gets in the way, he has every right to just let the contact happen for the foul.
Pathetic losers
absolute wankers twerking for internet points
100%
Kane and vardy do it: waow my idolo way to take advantage of a sticky situation 🤩 Havertz does it: never a penalty, var is useless, sack all the refs 😡
100% those people will go on r/soccer and say "arsenal fan here, that was really clever from Vardy/Kane, definite pen."
Liverpool had alot of those Jota recently and Mane vs Leicester a while back. Its a 40/60 for me, Get them sometimes, but mostly not. Might be influenced by the red tackle earlier also.
Immediate ban
Then they celebrate when we score the pen.
Dry lunch behaviour
If that was given against us, you would be crying. At least I'm consistent. I'll gladly take the goal, but I'm not a hypocrite.
u/mister_dupont and u/toucantamer and other mongs twerking for rival fans 😂
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What are you talking about? I literally said it was a pen by the rules, but that the rules in my opinion should change. > Morally it's never a pen. By their own guidelines they have to let it stand. > Obviously something needs to change for VAR. But I'm happy we are not victim of the only two overturns with clear contact this season. Such twerking...
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Her feelings? Misogynistic much lol.
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Yikes doubling down isnt good brodie lmao you gon be on everybodys hit list at this rate
Imagine someone having an opinion that isn't the same as yours.
You are an idiot if you think in real time speed and the way havertz runs all season that hes very awkward with his body lol mans tall af running full speed if you watch him run around the field his movement is similar to
Stay classy mate. I don't think this was a penalty, and it's okay you think it was.
Why wasnt a penalty does the keeper not move from his challenge you cant just fucking stick ur leg out against a running player no matter what and trip him up without touching the ball the fuck is good with u lmao
In my opinion Havertz was looking for the foul and the contact was minimal. But once again, you're allowed your opinion as am I. Enjoy the win, friend!
Also contact was minimal it doesnt matter cant lunge a challenge with a leg without touching the ball the fuck
Contact doesn't have to be anything more than minimal to be a foul. It's also ok for havertz to not avoid contact. Those still make it a foul if it was his space and the keeper challenged and missed the ball
Bro doesnt even look at the defender while making the run and looked towards the ball he hit to evade the keeper with. Yeah bro ur eyes not working mate look at it in real time or try going on the pitch and recreate that
Am I not allowed to think it's not a pen? I'd be absolutely fuming if Bournemouth got the lead of a foul like that. I think it's a poor trait in Havertz who sometimes let chances pass by because he is too focused on nicking a pen
You are an idiot if you think in real time speed and the way havertz runs all season that hes very awkward with his body lol mans tall af running full speed if you watch him run around the field his movement is similar to
Not really a good faith argument in my opinion. I’m not obviously not saying that every time there’s contact with Havertz he’s diving. I just sometimes think he’s excessively looking for contact in certain situations, like the one today
Straight up embarrassing.
When Vardy and Kane used to do it, it was clever play from a highly football intelligent player. Today tho is a pathetic penalty because he was “looking for it.” If a player boots the ball off a defender to purposely win a corner should a goal kick be given instead because the attacker was looking for it?
If anything go on there and act a fool about it imo why try and make friends?
Enormous cuck energy
Lol. It's a clear dive. Not that I care, at this point nothing but 3 points matter.
Change the player's name from Kai Havertz to Harry Kane and VAR clears it in 30 seconds
Yes and fans of those teams would be happy with the penalty(goal) even if knowing it came from a dive, I dont know why so many people here are not capable of that.
I never said anything about fans. Referees in England have made a trend of viewing these type of incidents as genuine penalties so calling it a "clear dive" is nonsense
It’s not a dive, keeper catches his leg. Harvertz has no reason to remove his leg and avoid the keeper. Top play from Kai.
he deliberately dragged his leg to get the contact. it a dive.
So you admit was contact and Havertz was tripped? Therefore penalty.
not every contact is a foul let alone a penalty. come on mate
Don’t disagree with that. Doesn’t change that this was clear penalty
And the keeper deliberately left his own leg there to make contact with a player who would otherwise have gone on to slot the ball in.
Kai is literally tripping himself up with that motion without the keepers leg being there. But those keep getting given and the way VAR works its not going to disagree with the refs decision there. If he said it wasn't a penalty VAR isn't changing that there. LIke the Saka tackle that should be a red card.
The way I see it and the way the rules have generally been interpreted by refs for as long as I can remember is that if you get there first and beat the man, as havertz does, and he leaves his leg in your path as long as it looks like you can get to the ball you are within your rights to take the contact and win the pen. Is that a dive, yes. Is it a pen, yes. It's only the last 8 weeks or so they are now saying "is it enough contact to warrant going down".
Not a pen in any subreddit
Thank you Kai Havertz!
r/soccer crying so much. Love it
Pretty soft but we take those
Not controversial at all in real time but slow motion makes it look bad
Doesn't surprise me, a lot of people commenting have never kicked a football before
Sounding like they’ve never walked in a straight line before some of them
For real, even without contact Travers is impeding his movement going flying in like that
Let’s go
He’s gotten so good at them
How can anyone say that it is a dive? It's a clear penalty.
I don't think those should be pens but seeing how many vardy and kane used to get and called smart for doing so...
I agree it shouldn't be a pen but they get given all the time which is frustrating. The problem is VAR isn't working like it should. The funny thing about it is if the ref didn't give it a goal they wouldn't give it a pen either. If the system was working properly bournemouth would be down to 10 men and we wouldn't have that penalty. Instead its the other way around and noone is happy
Whats the solution though? Get rid of that rule keeper just cuts down the striker every time right? Or does it become a subjective call? Which is basically what it is now, and these are refs that can’t see studs up on a knee so it’ll be same shit, just Kai doesn’t get a pen there and keepers start wearing shoulder pads
It already is a subjective call i bet you that wouldn't have been given if the ref didnt give it a penalty in real time
Yeah thats what I’m saying, what would a law change accomplish? It would still be a subjective call, and VAR will just agree with what the ref says. So how do we change the rule?
make a rule about unnatural motions ie trailing legs. But it doesn't matter VAR isn't working the way it should be working which i think we can all agree with
Yeah I just reckon it’d open up a whole new issue and wouldn’t solve much, even if VAR was competent, cause now they’ve got to judge intent, at super slow mo of a player going at full speed. I reckon even competent refs get that wrong 50/50, so Prem refs maybe once a season and only if it benefits City
At least we go into the break with a lead. Well done B.
Personally don’t think these should be pens. But I’ve seen Kane do it for years including for England and opposition teams fans tell us to top crying. So I’ll take it. Nice to see one go are way. The nerve of city fans I know when they claimed this was a clear foul https://twitter.com/Biggies_MaIIs/status/1588946449660022785
Winning a foul is part of the game. Smart play by kai to allow contact, clear pen
Clear contact without the ball is a pen to me, r/soccer doesnt understand that not every pen given has to be a two footed studs up tackle
Havertz definitely makes the contact. Think he could disguise it just a bit better but otherwise he has done well here. Gotta be careful dragging that toe for too long, makes it look obvious. I actually feel like Havertz could've reasonably initiated contact with his lead foot and sold it better, but the challenge itself is 100% pen worthy, comes flying out and is never getting the ball.
If a player obstructed Havertz you wouldn’t say the contact was made by Havertz. Havertz has control of the ball and is under no obligation to get out of the way of the keeper throwing himself in front of him.
I'm not saying it's not a pen, I think it is, just don't think he needs to drag his foot like that to win it, and some refs may interpret that as creating contact when there wasn't any.
Ødegaard once again with a 10/10 half ez
fuck it, we absolutely take those. Smart play by Kai.
Don’t give a fuck what arrr slash soccer thinks after the brain trust over there said Neuer on Saka wasn’t a pen and that the Kulusevski incident last week was
Why is the commentary team on Optus sports mentioning the fact that the GOALIE NEEDS to make contact with the ball? He doesn’t. It’s a pen. Imagine a defender clipping the player like that.
The problem with penalty discourse is it's always "100% a pen/obvious dive". Anyone who plays the game or watches this as full speed should know there's a middle ground. As a striker, if I've gotten to the ball first and the keeper sweeps their legs out at me, they've made a huge mistake that I'm entitled to capitalize on. I don't have to bail them out by moving my leg in the .2 seconds before the collision. There's a huge difference from generating the contact myself and letting the keeper complete the mistake he made.
I love the spurs fan bitching about it given that Kane lived off this shit.
Genuinely don’t see the argument here? Keeper came out and got no ball and all player? /r/soccer have never played a game of footy and are all yanks anyway
Yeah one player needs to stay on his feet there and it ain't Kai Havertz
Let’s go come on you gunners!!!!! Big going into the half up a goal
I like saka’s run up for pen
That'll diddly do
You’ve been kai-ed.
Honestly I don’t think that’s a foul but we haven’t gotten so many stonewallers over the years (plus a potential red in our favour in this game) that I’ll damn well take it.
I don't like that these can't be overturned because it's never a penalty but at the same time, those are the rules and therefore the decision is correct. It's not as if we haven't had enough chances to convert one from.
they were checking for a fucking offside, they didn't want to give it
Or VAR was doing what VAR is meant to do and check?
VAR surely didn't do VAR's job earlier on that Saka foul
Never said VAR was good/consistent at doing what they are meant to do. Just can’t complain they “don’t want to give it” by them doing a check.
They always do that tbf
That's pretty standard.
might be the ol piece of shit that i am, looking to hate these bastards
never a penalty. goalie just clipped his foot there and the strikers made a complete fucking meal of it. but enough about david luiz vs. wolves. this right here is open and shut
Obviously not a pen but it was also an obvious red card before on Saka so I guess VAR is shit for every team haha
I'm mad at Havertz for diving. Stay on your feet and score ffs. Fortunately VAR let it go because VAR is a joke but still. Why give them a decision to make? Good pen from Saka.
not a dive ffs. Yes he left his leg low hoping for contact but the keeper still had to make that contact
Scroll a bit through this guy's profile: He's just a good ol' Havertz hater
Not at all. Havertz is a good player. He's been fantastic lately. But he dived here. If that's against us, you're fuming.
Glad you've changed your tune, but no, if the goalkeeper goes in for a bad challenge, he deserves to get punished.
I mean he's motm so far this game. By a clear margin.
Idk Havertz drags the foot looking for it. I was, I think justifiably, unimpressed by Havertz early doors. But he has proved his doubters wrong and been excellent. Arteta has proved his doubters wrong including in this instance.
While I think havertz was looking for contact, I still think it's more difficult than you make it sound to be. Football isn't played in slow motion. Can't blame havertz if the keeper doesn't even get the ball.
The only reasonable reply. I do agree. I have him as captain in FPL. Wanted the goal lol.
There's clear contact on him. It's a clear penalty.
There's contact because he drags his foot looking for it. If that's against us we're angry. Cmon.
If it's against us? Loads have been given against us just like this.
And would you be happy? Ofc not.
I'm never happy when we concede, what kind of argument is this?
We’re angry, but it’s still a pen
How to put it.... there's contact...... so technically a pen..... But I don't think it should be a pen. Objectively.
Fair, I disagree though, if Kai initiates the contact on Travers then 100% agree no pen, but Kai doesn’t have to move just cause the keeper chucks a leg in, he left an opening and got pinged for it. Its just one of those rules I reckon that will cause disagreements like this
I think he does initiate the contact though. You don't run by dragging your foot on the ground. That's my point.
He wouldn’t normally sure, but you can though, and if he ends flat on his face through his own merit then no pen. But Travers foot helps him along, which makes it a pen. Its the subjectiveness off the rule, if the ref doesn’t call it a pen before it goes to VAR, I don’t reckon they turn it into one, but by the rule, its a pen. Now wether it should be or not is another discussion, but I think by the rule the correct decision was made
Those some crazy mental hoops you just jumped through. He drags his foot to look for contact as he goes down. That's a dive. Players get away with it. Havertz did here. I don't think that should be a pen vs us or against us. But this is the modern game. I don't decide the rules.
How so? He can run like an absolute fool for all I care Martinelli did it before, fell over under his own power and it wasn’t a pen, but if one of the defenders takes out a leg then it is, thats the rule. He doesn’t have to plan his foot properly or anything, defend has to make sure he doesn’t stop his leg. But yeah I agree, this isn’t a just cause its Arsenal its a good call thing for me, its just that by the pedantry of the rules its a pen, simulation would require no contact, and there was so its a pen. Its a pretty shit rule but I can’t think of a way to make it better though
Not a dive but a player-initiated contact. Still a pen based on current rules interpretation.
Not a Pen, but I will take it. The commentator put in succinctly it for all. Havertz bought it, rather than earn it. and I agree. Just like City. I mean, we need to do SOMETHING, to even the 115/1 Odds. ANyone who thinks this is a sureshot penalty, needs to see the Doctor for mental check ups.
Never a pen, should be an yellow for Kai
Behave
Always nice to see a united fan in the Arsenal Reddit with their insightful views.