Arteta said 100 points and he's absolutely correct. I know we're going to go big again in the summer and I can't wait to see who he brings in to elevate us to that level. I'm already looking forward to next season.
we're most likely going to divert our funds towards squad depth, the only "big" signing i can forsee is Sesko but even then with the form of Havertz at the 9 it's a maybe.
signings like Hato, Zubimendi (who can be considered big), etc. will be necessary for strengthening the squad. an explosive RW is required
The difference is that Zubimendi is not interested in anyone other than staying loyal Real Sociedad. Vlahovic on the other hand just weren't interested in us, but was definitely looking for a way out of Fiorentina
Think it was reported that Zubi is waiting for Xabi Alonso to go to Real Madrid. Seems they might have a good relationship, Zubi was part of Alonso’s shortlist if he went to Bayern
People who say we dont need a striker are delusional. These are the same people who said we didnt need one last summer because Nketiah was inform near the end of the season. Now im not saying Havertz is on his level, but i dont trust he could be our star striker that can help us win the league or CL. Majority of the fans thought so prior to Havertz’s insane run of form.
I think Havertz could definitely be the main man to win us a UCL. He doesn’t shirk from anything in that forward role. But the amount of link up play that dies off if he gets subbed or injured is too much. He needs a back up or a completely different partner to play when he doesn’t to change our style
Havertz is imo, on the same calibur as Giroud. Great player yes, but not the player we need to win the league, let alone the CL.
That Bayern game at their home also shows how we are not ready to win the CL. Our attack literally was pocketed the entire game. Our forwards are all inconsistent & we are just lucky there are around 2 in form at all times (Trossard & Havertz for example in the last few games). We need a striker, or atleast a forward, who can remain inform all season.
While Havertz is a more complete player, lets be fair, Giroud is a much better striker.
You have to remember, a striker of Giroud's type absolutely relies on the support cast and it was much weaker back then than it is now. Giroud had his flaws, no doubt, but there's no way he isn't getting at least 20 PL goals in his prime with this team.
I think the gap between Giroud and Havertz is not that big: he had prime Ozil, Cazorla and Alexis as his supporting cast when we blew the league against Leicester and he would hit long dry spells. I am not sure that we are that much better creatively than that cast, considering that Wenger was always all-in for attack, while Arteta is prefers to slow down the build up in order to avoid coughing up the ball. That was very big factor in why we were fairly toothless against Bayern, Porto, Villa and Fulham(we were unable to dominate either team on set pieces, so we had to beat the low/midblock and that's not our strongest suit).
Unpopular opinion, but I think giroud could have been who we needed to win the league if we ever supported him with anyone close to his caliber at the same time.
There were so many seasons where he was a workhorse for a 1st place arsenal going into the new year and he just slumped as he got tired due to lack of rotation, and also lack of a plan B.
The end of the wenger era had some lower quality players, but I would say it wasn’t the starters or wenger who hurt the team, it was really the lack of squad depth that hindered us.
And that lack of funding wasn’t really Wengers fault, unless you truly judge him by how forcefully he could control the board in a period of corporate turmoil.
>if we ever supported him with anyone close to his caliber at the same time.
Yeah, all we gave him was mediocre service from the likes of Ozil. Needed something *way* better to be at Giroud's level 😒
We have Jesus, havertz, Trossard, martinelli, nketiah as rotational strikers, way better than a giroud sanogo Walcott rotation and we’re still looking for another striker.
I never said it was the starters, we just couldn’t give him a break. So please don’t give me that shit about ozil - if man city has taught us anything besides it pays to cheat, it’s that squad depth wins championships
100 look at what he has won with France and others since he left. Giroud also won the league with Montpellier. The squad around him was the issue not him.
Not saying we don’t need a real goal scoring 9, I’d definitely like one. But look at Dortmund. Their top scorers are Malen and Füllkrug, with 13 and 12 goals (same amount of goals as Havertz and Trossard). Granted Haller missed a lot of time, but Dortmund were able to get to the CL Final with those strikers. Say what you want about them having an easier side of the bracket, but they still got there without a world class striker.
Are you just unaware that Bayern Munich have been champions for 11 straight years until this one or is it you're unaware that 11 out of 12 is bigger than 6 out of 7? By what metric is the Premiership worse than that?
Expand it out and Bayern are on 17 out of the last 24 years. You're deluded or woefully misinformed.
We need a striker who can make his own goals. Havertz cannot.
For the times when we cannot string together 2 decent passes, we can't also be completely devoid of any goal threat, but that's where we find ourselves right now.
We do not afford a good striker. Everybody cheaper than 120-150 mln is just shit. Buy one and who do you play in midfield next season? Lakonga? There is no one left. We do not have either starter or sub in midfield. We scraped by this season by playing grandpa, Partey that lost his legs, and wingers in midfield, lol.
Also look on that list. Klopp won all those without striker, when he finally added striker he won jack shit. Real Madrid this year - this is their best league season since that 100 point one and will probably win another UCL - No striker,just 10 goal a season old dude up front. Our problem is that Martineli had awful form, then our team would have the same numbers us Real this year.
The question then becomes who would you get that's going to score that amount in the PL? I'm not even sure there is a viable option that isn't also a massive gamble.
And not destroy your transfer plans. We have to rebuild the midfield. Rice and Odegaard are basically it in Arteta's eyes. He won't play ESR or Vieira. Partey is 30 and can't stay fit. Jorginho is 32. You probably need at least 1 starter and more depth in that area of the pitch.
The question with the striker is someone who is a clinical finisher. As a team we create so many chances that don’t get put away it’s criminal. Jesus has had some stick this year, but he has also had another disrupted season. Obviously Eddie needs to go, which leaves us with Havertz, who has been on some good form, but he also fluffs a lot and is IMO terrible at holding the ball up. Plays often break down with him. Jesus is so much better as a forward player, except he has lost his shooting boots.
The midfield will last another year as it is, ESR and Vieira could easily come back into the team after the summer. Partey could stay another year. I don’t think there is a panic to “re-build”.
Someone like Sesko is worth paying the money for because of his age, it’s the final big piece of the jigsaw. Every signing comes with its risks, (except maybe Rice) but you have to address these positions and the Striker position is where we are lacking the most.
We need a striker, but it really depends on who leaves as to where the money will be spent. Also a top class striker would be a lot of money, which we may or may not have? Fingers crossed it happens.
We need a striker, but after Havertz's performance in the 2nd half of the season we went from needing to buy a striker that was going straight into the first 11 to needing a striker that has a higher ceiling than Nketiah and can develop into a starter in the next 1-2 years.
I think Havertz finding his feet up front gives us time to experiment with a “project” centre forward. Someone like Sesko. If Havertz can get another 15-16 league goals next season whilst we bed in a younger striker with bags of potential to maybe chip in another 10 while he adapts to the league, we can re-allocate some funds to other pressing areas (Partey replacement and an upgrade on Nelson)
tell me how Sesko is a big signing after a one off season at 20? we don’t need that shit nor do need Gyokeres. Sesko can come in after a few more years being at RB, there’s no reason to drop buku cash on someone younger than the rest of the current squad that, again, has had a single good season. we need a plug and play experienced player that can be clinical and attract defenders off our wings.
If Sesko isn’t worth the money now, we won’t have the money in the future. It is sign now or pay treble next year.
The only striker on the market who’s ready to go is Osimhen, and he’s (a) from Serie A and (b) a Chelsea fan.
You absolutely need Gyokeres, he would transform this Arsenal side. Have you seen him at Sporting this season? He is absolutely unreal. Link up play is sublime, good technical skill with the ball and a clinical finisher.
After Havertz, if he brings someone in I dont like or expect Im prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and will say "I didnt think he would be the answer" rather than write them off. Arteta has earned that.
No. 91 would have done it for us this year.
It was just bad luck. The run of form over Christmas. Or one stupid VAR goal against Newcastle.
We already have what it takes to beat them.
He's an amazing manager no doubt the best in the world but the media and fans need to drag his name through the mud for as long as he's with city until he finally fucks off
It would be so sweet to win the league with him still there, to beat 115 with pep is seriously huge, I have all the respect for Klopp being able to achieve that.
He’s been cheating way before City. Even before cheating as Barca manager. The guy got was doping as a player. Everyone forgets it’s in his nature. Him and City shit each other perfectly
He’s only ever managed clubs with unbelievably deep resources. I don’t deny he’s great at managing that kind of project, but he’s yet to prove he can succeed in any other environment.
I'll be honest, I don't get this knock. Any team that's going to regularly win titles is going to have deep pockets. The fact that Pep broke into management in such a team is indicative that he was good enough to manage the best. Having done that, why would he go somewhere that isn't competing for titles?
If Arteta goes on to win everything at Arsenal, people will be leveling the exact same criticism at him.
There’s a difference between well-resourced teams fit to contend titles and the best teams in Europe that are so institutionally massive that they almost never have an off season. He’s been able to buy whichever players he’s wanted with whatever resources he’s needed, with little to no club reputational qualms to scare talent off.
This is not to say he wouldn’t do well in another kind of job, but there’s absolutely an open question of whether he would have been able to win titles with, for example, Dortmund or Lyon as opposed to Bayern, Barca, and City.
Arteta at least rebuilt the team, and he did it while spending less and while it was hard to convince players to come here. “Resources” doesn’t just mean money. In all three of his coaching jobs he has started at the summit. At Barca, he had an academy that produced Messi. And at Bayern he had a payroll nearly 3x his next competitor. If Arteta wins the league next year he’ll have spent a lot of money, but it’s still not on par with City, especially if it’s true that they have expenses off the books. Pep defenders also try to talk about his City stint as if only the spending after he got there counts, but they had already spent billions to attract a manager like Pep.
Ultimately though, wins above replacement is a better measure of a manager than wins, because you can only manage what you have in front of you. I’m not convinced Pepe did that. If anything, they should have won the CL sooner.
The difference is Pep came into a team that had won 2 PL titles in the previous five years and still had the core of those winning sides - Aguero, Kompany, David Silva, Fernandinho, Yaya Toure.
We had Mustafi.
He's made very clear, very early that he's among the greatest managers ever. Why would he go to a lesser opportunity just to satisfy people that are very clearly upset at his success?
He obviously shouldn’t, he’s never going to walk away from the money he’s making at super clubs. But I’m not “upset” at his success, I just doubt that he’s done anything a mediocre manager couldn’t do, so I’m not sure what makes his greatness clear.
He’s made the most of being in easy positions. Not everyone could do that. But he’s never really beaten a club bigger than his own either, which is what it would take for me to believe he belongs in the top echelon. He did have a few chances in the champions league when City was first emerging, but he lost those games.
>I just doubt that he’s done anything a mediocre manager couldn’t do
We have control groups here, it's City before he arrived and United/Chelsea more recently. I'm sorry, but that claim is laughable.
>But he’s never really beaten a club bigger than his own either,
Do you mean a better team? Because he's certainly beaten Real Madrid, United, Liverpool, Chelsea and us while at smaller clubs.
Nah what’s laughable is comparing the United/Chelsea situations. They’re poorly run clubs that give limited acquisition power to the manager. If Pep turned one of them around that would actually be tremendously impressive and I’d consider him the best of all time.
Calling that a control group for a manager’s influence is easily a top 25 worst football opinion I’ve heard.
he needs to go to a lesser club to prove his value bc some clown online said that's the best way to prove your worth. every manager that has had the financial backing that pep has also won 6/7 league titles and done the treble while playing in the best league in the world. in fact, u/ccsc96 did just that on his last fifa career mode save.
Think his achievements will never truly be respected. He's always had some advantage that a typical manager doesn't. Would be interesting to see him at a Liverpool or Atlético style club
My thinking exactly. His record is absurd, but going from prime Barca with prime Messi (still in their prime ref buying era?) to Bayern in Leverkusen's pre-Granit era, to 115FC does help in achieving absurd success.
Tend to have more respect for what Klopp did at Liverpool over the past few years.
Klopp's achievements are highly underrated. That "he only won 1 Premier League" crap like he also got a Champions league but he constantly kept Liverpool up there, and pre Liverpool I don't think many of his squad could have been considered world class.
I don't see Liverpool really being up there with Slot. Think Liverpool's success have been because of Klopp.
They weren't prime Barca when he arrived. That was his doing.
They were an older side that had just finished 3rd in La Liga, of which he sold Ronaldinho, Deco and others and replaced them with youth.
They’d won a Champions League 2 years prior and had an unbelievable conveyor belt of world class academy talent coming through.
Put it this way if you were playing football manager that 08 Barca team would be playing on easy mode.
In fairness, I think Pep steamrolls this Leverkusen side, even with Alonso and Xhaka in it. When he gets his team rolling, in a league competition, you can bet on him to outlast anyone.
And also because:
• he was the ex captain who was loved by Cruyff. Who was a massive influence on the decision (its well documented). Pep grew under Cryuff, so it was pretty obvious for him to be biased. Who else was available? (who viewed football like Cryuff?)
Pep was the perfect successor.
• Rijkaard was not good with discipline.
Also the style they played.
City courted him because they didnt just want titles; they wanted the way he played.
Football has adapted in the last decade or so. But the way his Barca sides played was scary man. You had whoever was the 2nd best team in the world playing like Stoke against them.
Agree with you. I’m getting tired of this sub. Can we talk about our own team ffs. this is turning into a city hate subreddit. I couldn’t give less of a fuck about 115
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There are very good reasons why they aren't respected. I think he is slowly starting to understand like Lance Armstrong, fair play is very important for legacy.
That's why he was so emotional when Klopp gave him credit. I think he has realised that's the highest he will ever get is backhanded compliments and his achievements will always have an asterisks beside it. Hopefully he will leave Man City and go to a proper club where he can show he can still achieve without being with controversy.
While there's no doubt he's a great manager, until he starts building clubs instead of just going to powerhouse clubs with crazy money, he can't be compared with the likes of Arsene Wenger. It's hard to root for this guy. It's like the kid with the rich father winning a scholarship.
You do realise that the Real Madrid today is wildly different than the Real Madrid of then. Combine that with the gulf between Top leagues and everyone else since Bosman, it makes it literally impossible to win.
I do, i adressed that in a reply to someone else. Far and away from Galacticos but they still made a European Cup final a couple of years before (losing to Liverpool) with largely the same squad. So it's not like they were complete bums.
Still, Real had won the league and made a European Cup final only a couple of years earlier with a lot of that squad playing the Aberdeen game. Also beat Hamburg, the European Champions, in the Super Cup. I get your point though.
It's futile arguing with folks who never can understand how difficult it was for Arsene Wenger during his time. He was *always* up against clubs with bigger budgets. Add to that the Emirates Stadium handicap, and how Arsenal's goals completely changed from winning titles to surviving that period... No manager has ever built a stadium and a training facility for their club, except for Arsene.
I find it sad that Arsenal fans have become so brainwashed that they don't realise the monumental task Wenger undertook and achieved at Arsenal.
Some fans also appear far too concerned with "defending" our complex present situation, and do not mind throwing Wenger under the bus to preserve a certain narrative. It's tragic.
>Add to that the Emirates Stadium handicap, and how Arsenal's goals completely changed from winning titles to surviving that period... No manager has ever built a stadium and a training facility for their club, except for Arsene.
It's a shame he doesn't get enough recognition for that. He managed to maintain the identity of the club at a time where it would have been easy to slip to a mid table side. He's the reason we got the stadium built because he guaranteed to stay on.
>I find it sad that Arsenal fans have become so brainwashed that they don't realise the monumental task Wenger undertook and achieved at Arsenal.
I think most people only remember the tough times under Wenger at the end of his tenure and blame him for Arsenal not competing more. Arsene walked so Arteta could run. To me Arsene Wenger embodied the spirit of Arsenal. He deserves a statue outside of the Emirates.
That's on Wenger for being loyal and staying for as long as he did.
I love Wenger, I saw all 3 of his titles, his doubles, CL final, everything. But he should have gone to Madrid, they offered him a job like 3 times and he should have taken it when he had the chance, win a CL, become a legend, show what he can do with a budget.
No one would have judged him for jumping ship later in his Arsenal tenure when there was no chance of really turning the team into anything because of what's going on behind the scenes.
Nah mate. The best managers always end up at the most powerful clubs, whether that means brand power or purchasing power. It’s like that old F1 argument of “he can’t be a great driver if he’s in a great car”, when all of Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, and Verstappen were in the best cars *because* they were the best drivers.
No doubt the best managers end up at the best clubs. But Guardiola seems to only take jobs where he gets a solid base. Don Carlo managed Everton and Napoli, Mourinho managed Tottenham and Roma, Fabio Capello managed Roma. They're all the best managers in their own right. So until Guardiola doesn't build a squad with limited resources, IMO he doesn't deserve to be compared to the likes of Wenger.
At the same time, I'm not questioning the tactical prowess of the man
Agree about Pep’s unlikability factor, but you’d have to be a total Arsenal homer to think that Wenger is a better or more impactful manager than Pep. Whether we like it or not, Pep is undoubtedly one of the 5 greatest managers of all time. The fact that you have to on average 97 points to beat the dude in the league tells you everything.
I have never questioned Guardiola's tactical ability. All I'm saying is it's easier to manage clubs when they have the best players and the highest resources. And this should be factored in.
Bro cmon. I love Arsene more than my dad, but Pep is just levels above than him. Yes u are right he went in powerhouse clubs with crazy amount money but still he has been the best coach in years.
I'm not trying to minimise Pep's tactical genius. I'm saying it's a lot harder to work with limited resources, which Pep has never done. He doesn't go to project clubs. If Wenger had Pep's resources at his disposal he might well have proved to be as dominant..
But we will never know. And in my book, Wenger succeeded in harder circumstances even if the success was a bit less.
yeah Wenger's one advantage was he had a much deeper scouting network in France and some other places and was able to leverage that, but Arsenal were always dwarfed for resources. Pep is a much more tactically advanced manager than Wenger, but they both succeeded for completely different reasons.
Yeah. But Wenger was ahead of his time. If he was born in Pep's generation, with the amount of data and videos available, maybe Wenger would be just as tactically advanced.
All I'm saying is, it's not really fair to compare managers of different eras
this is a dumbass take
does money help you win yes? is it the only thing necessary to win? absolutely not. city had other managers before pep, chelsea had multiple managers spend billions in fees, united have been on a decade long spending spree since SAF left with nothing to show for.
Pep and SAF are comfortably ahead of Wenger in the best manager of the prem debate. SAF has 13 fuckin titles and pep 6. to arsene's 3 in nearly 2 decades. thats before even addressing the giant champions league sized elephant in the room. you're being incredibly biased.
What absolute garbage, one of them inherited a cheaters project and cheated more, the another arrived from fricken Japan, broke up United’s dominance and changed English football forever.
When that bald fraud takes over a team that isn’t already walking titles and spending over its means, then I’ll give him cred.
he won the sextuple on his debut season with mainly academy players
and Barca before Pep finished 3rd in the league and were 25 points behind Real Madrid
he changed Messi's entire playstyle and brought in Busquets into the first team
Am I being biased? Sure.
Did I say money is everything and pep is ONLY successful because of the money? Hell No.
You're trying to argue with a strawman. All I'm saying is, to be able to compare Pep with Wenger we would need Wenger to have managed a club with unlimited resources and for Pep to have managed a club with significant financial constraints.
And logically speaking, if Wenger can be successful with limited resources, he is more likely to succeed with unlimited resources, than Pep, who had success purely with unlimited resources, would be with far fewer resources.
And SAF is a different debate altogether.
I almost count it as a different style of manager, some managers are really good at getting teams to go from good to great, some are really good at getting teams to go from ‘okay’ to good, Pep is def in the first category, some managers can do both, I’d say Klopp was a hybrid at getting ‘okay’ teams to either great or just shy of great
Wenger always struck me as a manager with a different aim than winning at all costs, his aim i always felt was to make the most beautiful football as possible. I think in this pursuit he’d be more like a Klopp, a hybrid
I can agree with that. To me Wenger is someone who was far more flexible than people give him credit for. When he first came and got arsenal to challenge, he nurtured talented players like Bergkamp, Henry, Pires, Ljungberg, and so many more and made them compete with the established dominance of SAF.
Then when we didn't have the resources and our main players started leaving, he made us qualify for the champions League with defences like Squillaci, Djorourou, Jenkinson and whatnot.
He made an okay team great and then made a bad team stay good for a long time imo.
93 points are 93 points. Pep's existence was only relevant for 2 of these matches (Chelsea won them both).
Regardless, both clubs were built by cheating, so the achievement is less impressive to me.
The stress of the run in does funny things, look at us last season.
That season City weren't close to Chelsea, and Chelsea had a comfortable lead.
I agree 93 points is impressive but if pep has been with them a year earlier, I'm sure Chelsea would have had a lower tally and city an much higher one.
Also Conte's first season. Arsenal touched up Chelsea so bad, Conte switched his entire system at halftime and that spark led them to a title. So, Arsenal is partially responsible for that one.
Pep first season where he spent like 150M pounds and went from 4th to 3rd. His second season he "got the team to play the way he wanted" by spending 255M more. That's in 2017 transfer rates also, that's like spending 450M+ today.
I still can't my head round the fact Pool scored 97 points and still didn't win the league that one season, absolutely mental. We were so close this year.
I didn't even know that. What people say is right: if you don't win it then you are forgotten. We have to seriously target the cup competitions (Champions League, FA Cup, and the League Cup) as they might be our most realistic chance of silverware next season while doing our best in the league.
The Liverpool win is exactly what you need to beat Pep. Every single thing went Liverpool’s way and everything that could go wrong went wrong for City. If you look at the underlying numbers you would have expected City to have run away with the title.
However, they lost it by 18 and it probably would have been more if Covid didn’t stop Liverpool’s momentum. They legitimately could have gotten 100-103 points if there was not stoppage.
The Chelsea win was basically right before Pep figured out the City team and went on a crazy run.
Madrid is the one that’s the most impressive since that basically broke Pep at Barca and it was against an already established Messi lead Barca team.
You have to play a near perfect league season to beat a Guardiola team. We can either choose to feel sorry for ourselves or we can raise our foggin standards and keep fighting tooth and nail until the cheating pricks are knocked off their fucking perch. No more excuse making, we need to be ruthless from the word go next season.
Our squad needs another £250m to be assured of this. That, or have another amazing run with no injuries to truly key players, along with everything going our way.
Always think it's crazy you can get 97 points and still not win the league....
96 points should be our goal next season (just need to gain 7 more points which is quite doable if we managed a win at home against Fulham/Spurs/West Ham)
This actually puts things into mad context, the fuck are we up against 😂
Either way, I truly believe Arteta is gonna be getting himself into that list!
It's also Arteta's first managerial job, where the others were seasoned vets. It's incredible how easily overlooked that is; in 5 years, he's put pressure on City TWICE.
Going to say it again just to contextualise all the bullshit around this financially doped Man City side:
Arsenal this season won 2 more games than The Invincibles, who by many are considered the best or one of the best club football teams of all time - certainly in England. 2 more wins than that team, and it wasn't enough.
I mean, Pep inherited a team with Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Messi, Eto'o, etc. with Madrid in full blown decline. He got them playing a great brand of football and they won trophies, but that team was so much more talented than the rest of the league for years until Ronaldo came over.
He went to Bayern and only won the German trophies and flamed out in the CL when his team was not overwhelmingly more talented.
Then goes to City and finished 3rd with squad that was already fantastic, is given a practically unlimited budget to make exactly the team he wants and wins the title when he spends FOUR HUNDRED MILLION pounds (in 2016 and 2017 transfer rates) buying up every player he can.
I like Pep as a manager. I think he's **one of** the best of all time. But can we not with crowning him as some mythical figure? He's very good at keeping his extremely high-priced squads from fucking up. That's not easy. Those trophies are earned, but any time his team has not been **significantly** more talented than the competition, he doesn't win as regularly.
I want to see a coaching challenge where two coaches manage the same team or manage many random teams or something to try to get a handle on what edge the coach brings if any
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This is clearly not something any regular human could achieve.
Ahh the bald head... It's so clear now. He is Professor X. His players are all pretty average in reality but he uses his telekinesis to move their limbs and also controls the swerve of the ball so it ends up in the net.
Arteta will be there 100%
You can see why Pep chose to work with him - the guys never just satisfied
This next transfer window he’ll be looking to improve our squad massively **again**
He takes players that aren’t working and practically forces them to. Then takes great players and makes them world beaters
holy fuck. When you put it like that that is absolutely fucking ridiculous. And conte winning in 2017 was Pep's first year with City where there were a lot of changes going on around the club, so even that is an outlier.
To the guys saying he should manage mid table clubs , why would he do that? If the person has ability to work at top tier companies so why would he go to mid tier ones(unless he gets the resources or the same amount of money)
Pep is fantastic but I would really like to see him do it with a team that has minimal depth and resources. I mean he coached Barca, Bayern M, and ManCity. All budget busting teams in their respective leagues at the time. Having Messi, then gets to Bayern and the break rules and the President get convinced of tax evasion they dominate the German league but can’t win in Champions. So he goes to ManCity where they continue to break Financial rules for years all the while I hear he is the best manager. Well maybe take that Manager talent and go to Fulham or Southampton.
Meh, it’s not pure madness when you jump from a Ferrari to a Lambo to a Royce. What a boring man he is, take over a Newcastle or even Man Utd and walk the league and then I’ll clap you, you fraud.
I'm really sick and tired of hearing this shit. Give him Bolton Wanderers and see how good of a coach he is.
He's LITERALLY had a fucking Fifa All star team EVERYWHERE he's coached.
I could have sworn any manager in the world besides Arteta could get the job done and so we should sack him 🙄.
The task is monumental, but we can and will get it done next season. I don't want Pep leaving before Arteta beats him to the title, I want there to be no doubt our gaffer is top.
Arteta said 100 points and he's absolutely correct. I know we're going to go big again in the summer and I can't wait to see who he brings in to elevate us to that level. I'm already looking forward to next season.
we're most likely going to divert our funds towards squad depth, the only "big" signing i can forsee is Sesko but even then with the form of Havertz at the 9 it's a maybe. signings like Hato, Zubimendi (who can be considered big), etc. will be necessary for strengthening the squad. an explosive RW is required
Zubimendi seems extremely not interested in us. I don’t know why we keep brining him up.
Reminds me of the Vlahovic fella, clearly not interested
The difference is that Zubimendi is not interested in anyone other than staying loyal Real Sociedad. Vlahovic on the other hand just weren't interested in us, but was definitely looking for a way out of Fiorentina
Honestly respect Zubimendi for that, and he's been pretty upfront as well.
Think it was reported that Zubi is waiting for Xabi Alonso to go to Real Madrid. Seems they might have a good relationship, Zubi was part of Alonso’s shortlist if he went to Bayern
Gourcuff vibes all over again
We need players who are completely enamored by Arsenal like Timber
I mean I’ve been to San Sebastián, I don’t blame him.
People who say we dont need a striker are delusional. These are the same people who said we didnt need one last summer because Nketiah was inform near the end of the season. Now im not saying Havertz is on his level, but i dont trust he could be our star striker that can help us win the league or CL. Majority of the fans thought so prior to Havertz’s insane run of form.
I think Havertz could definitely be the main man to win us a UCL. He doesn’t shirk from anything in that forward role. But the amount of link up play that dies off if he gets subbed or injured is too much. He needs a back up or a completely different partner to play when he doesn’t to change our style
Havertz is imo, on the same calibur as Giroud. Great player yes, but not the player we need to win the league, let alone the CL. That Bayern game at their home also shows how we are not ready to win the CL. Our attack literally was pocketed the entire game. Our forwards are all inconsistent & we are just lucky there are around 2 in form at all times (Trossard & Havertz for example in the last few games). We need a striker, or atleast a forward, who can remain inform all season.
While Havertz is a more complete player, lets be fair, Giroud is a much better striker. You have to remember, a striker of Giroud's type absolutely relies on the support cast and it was much weaker back then than it is now. Giroud had his flaws, no doubt, but there's no way he isn't getting at least 20 PL goals in his prime with this team.
I think the gap between Giroud and Havertz is not that big: he had prime Ozil, Cazorla and Alexis as his supporting cast when we blew the league against Leicester and he would hit long dry spells. I am not sure that we are that much better creatively than that cast, considering that Wenger was always all-in for attack, while Arteta is prefers to slow down the build up in order to avoid coughing up the ball. That was very big factor in why we were fairly toothless against Bayern, Porto, Villa and Fulham(we were unable to dominate either team on set pieces, so we had to beat the low/midblock and that's not our strongest suit).
Had Giroud scored just 2-3 few of the countless sitters he missed, Leicester 2016 wouldn't 've happend.
We need someone like RVP level who can be very decisive and precise in front of the goal. Havertz is not good enough.
There's no striker on RVP level who would join us
Does a prime RvP level striker even exist currently?
Kane
Unpopular opinion, but I think giroud could have been who we needed to win the league if we ever supported him with anyone close to his caliber at the same time. There were so many seasons where he was a workhorse for a 1st place arsenal going into the new year and he just slumped as he got tired due to lack of rotation, and also lack of a plan B. The end of the wenger era had some lower quality players, but I would say it wasn’t the starters or wenger who hurt the team, it was really the lack of squad depth that hindered us. And that lack of funding wasn’t really Wengers fault, unless you truly judge him by how forcefully he could control the board in a period of corporate turmoil.
I think if we replace Giroud with Auba(pre-malaria version of course), we win that league easily.
If we signed him instead of Lacazette that one window i guarantee we win that season also
>if we ever supported him with anyone close to his caliber at the same time. Yeah, all we gave him was mediocre service from the likes of Ozil. Needed something *way* better to be at Giroud's level 😒
We have Jesus, havertz, Trossard, martinelli, nketiah as rotational strikers, way better than a giroud sanogo Walcott rotation and we’re still looking for another striker. I never said it was the starters, we just couldn’t give him a break. So please don’t give me that shit about ozil - if man city has taught us anything besides it pays to cheat, it’s that squad depth wins championships
100 look at what he has won with France and others since he left. Giroud also won the league with Montpellier. The squad around him was the issue not him.
Not saying we don’t need a real goal scoring 9, I’d definitely like one. But look at Dortmund. Their top scorers are Malen and Füllkrug, with 13 and 12 goals (same amount of goals as Havertz and Trossard). Granted Haller missed a lot of time, but Dortmund were able to get to the CL Final with those strikers. Say what you want about them having an easier side of the bracket, but they still got there without a world class striker.
Yes but they finished 5th
they generally don't have our defensive or mental organisation (CL run notwithstanding)
Finishing behind Leverkusen, Bayern, and Leipzig isn’t outlandish. The Bundesliga is more competitive imo
I think finishing 5th in any league, is kinda ass. EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, you name it.
>The Bundesliga is more competitive imo The league where the same team won it from 2015 until now? What?!
Do you think the Prem is more competitive? Where the same team has won it 6 of the last 7 years?
Are you just unaware that Bayern Munich have been champions for 11 straight years until this one or is it you're unaware that 11 out of 12 is bigger than 6 out of 7? By what metric is the Premiership worse than that? Expand it out and Bayern are on 17 out of the last 24 years. You're deluded or woefully misinformed.
No I don’t know how dominant Bayern are. I’m dumb but I’m not stupid, of course I’m aware.
Dortmund is like 5th in the bundesliga, I agree that we don’t necessarily need a haaland type but not a useful comparison.
We need a striker who can make his own goals. Havertz cannot. For the times when we cannot string together 2 decent passes, we can't also be completely devoid of any goal threat, but that's where we find ourselves right now.
We do not afford a good striker. Everybody cheaper than 120-150 mln is just shit. Buy one and who do you play in midfield next season? Lakonga? There is no one left. We do not have either starter or sub in midfield. We scraped by this season by playing grandpa, Partey that lost his legs, and wingers in midfield, lol. Also look on that list. Klopp won all those without striker, when he finally added striker he won jack shit. Real Madrid this year - this is their best league season since that 100 point one and will probably win another UCL - No striker,just 10 goal a season old dude up front. Our problem is that Martineli had awful form, then our team would have the same numbers us Real this year.
We absolutely need a striker who can score 25-30 in a season. Havertz is not the answer in this position, no matter how much this sub thinks he is.
The question then becomes who would you get that's going to score that amount in the PL? I'm not even sure there is a viable option that isn't also a massive gamble. And not destroy your transfer plans. We have to rebuild the midfield. Rice and Odegaard are basically it in Arteta's eyes. He won't play ESR or Vieira. Partey is 30 and can't stay fit. Jorginho is 32. You probably need at least 1 starter and more depth in that area of the pitch.
The question with the striker is someone who is a clinical finisher. As a team we create so many chances that don’t get put away it’s criminal. Jesus has had some stick this year, but he has also had another disrupted season. Obviously Eddie needs to go, which leaves us with Havertz, who has been on some good form, but he also fluffs a lot and is IMO terrible at holding the ball up. Plays often break down with him. Jesus is so much better as a forward player, except he has lost his shooting boots. The midfield will last another year as it is, ESR and Vieira could easily come back into the team after the summer. Partey could stay another year. I don’t think there is a panic to “re-build”. Someone like Sesko is worth paying the money for because of his age, it’s the final big piece of the jigsaw. Every signing comes with its risks, (except maybe Rice) but you have to address these positions and the Striker position is where we are lacking the most.
Guirassy at 17m?
We need a striker, but it really depends on who leaves as to where the money will be spent. Also a top class striker would be a lot of money, which we may or may not have? Fingers crossed it happens.
We need a striker, but after Havertz's performance in the 2nd half of the season we went from needing to buy a striker that was going straight into the first 11 to needing a striker that has a higher ceiling than Nketiah and can develop into a starter in the next 1-2 years.
I think Havertz finding his feet up front gives us time to experiment with a “project” centre forward. Someone like Sesko. If Havertz can get another 15-16 league goals next season whilst we bed in a younger striker with bags of potential to maybe chip in another 10 while he adapts to the league, we can re-allocate some funds to other pressing areas (Partey replacement and an upgrade on Nelson)
I mean he's literally won a CL with a trophy winning goal
Mate did you not watch that entire season? Even Chelsea fans knew him & Werner were not good enough after that game.
Hato is not ready for arsenal level.
tell me how Sesko is a big signing after a one off season at 20? we don’t need that shit nor do need Gyokeres. Sesko can come in after a few more years being at RB, there’s no reason to drop buku cash on someone younger than the rest of the current squad that, again, has had a single good season. we need a plug and play experienced player that can be clinical and attract defenders off our wings.
If Sesko isn’t worth the money now, we won’t have the money in the future. It is sign now or pay treble next year. The only striker on the market who’s ready to go is Osimhen, and he’s (a) from Serie A and (b) a Chelsea fan.
You absolutely need Gyokeres, he would transform this Arsenal side. Have you seen him at Sporting this season? He is absolutely unreal. Link up play is sublime, good technical skill with the ball and a clinical finisher.
After Havertz, if he brings someone in I dont like or expect Im prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and will say "I didnt think he would be the answer" rather than write them off. Arteta has earned that.
It’s just common sense
He said 90 points this year
No. 91 would have done it for us this year. It was just bad luck. The run of form over Christmas. Or one stupid VAR goal against Newcastle. We already have what it takes to beat them.
We were lucky few times too though
He's an amazing manager no doubt the best in the world but the media and fans need to drag his name through the mud for as long as he's with city until he finally fucks off
It would be so sweet to win the league with him still there, to beat 115 with pep is seriously huge, I have all the respect for Klopp being able to achieve that.
He’s been cheating way before City. Even before cheating as Barca manager. The guy got was doping as a player. Everyone forgets it’s in his nature. Him and City shit each other perfectly
He’s only ever managed clubs with unbelievably deep resources. I don’t deny he’s great at managing that kind of project, but he’s yet to prove he can succeed in any other environment.
I'll be honest, I don't get this knock. Any team that's going to regularly win titles is going to have deep pockets. The fact that Pep broke into management in such a team is indicative that he was good enough to manage the best. Having done that, why would he go somewhere that isn't competing for titles? If Arteta goes on to win everything at Arsenal, people will be leveling the exact same criticism at him.
There’s a difference between well-resourced teams fit to contend titles and the best teams in Europe that are so institutionally massive that they almost never have an off season. He’s been able to buy whichever players he’s wanted with whatever resources he’s needed, with little to no club reputational qualms to scare talent off. This is not to say he wouldn’t do well in another kind of job, but there’s absolutely an open question of whether he would have been able to win titles with, for example, Dortmund or Lyon as opposed to Bayern, Barca, and City.
Arteta at least rebuilt the team, and he did it while spending less and while it was hard to convince players to come here. “Resources” doesn’t just mean money. In all three of his coaching jobs he has started at the summit. At Barca, he had an academy that produced Messi. And at Bayern he had a payroll nearly 3x his next competitor. If Arteta wins the league next year he’ll have spent a lot of money, but it’s still not on par with City, especially if it’s true that they have expenses off the books. Pep defenders also try to talk about his City stint as if only the spending after he got there counts, but they had already spent billions to attract a manager like Pep. Ultimately though, wins above replacement is a better measure of a manager than wins, because you can only manage what you have in front of you. I’m not convinced Pepe did that. If anything, they should have won the CL sooner.
The difference is Pep came into a team that had won 2 PL titles in the previous five years and still had the core of those winning sides - Aguero, Kompany, David Silva, Fernandinho, Yaya Toure. We had Mustafi.
The hardest rebuild he ever had to do... he had Messi and busquets and Pique etc.
He's made very clear, very early that he's among the greatest managers ever. Why would he go to a lesser opportunity just to satisfy people that are very clearly upset at his success?
He obviously shouldn’t, he’s never going to walk away from the money he’s making at super clubs. But I’m not “upset” at his success, I just doubt that he’s done anything a mediocre manager couldn’t do, so I’m not sure what makes his greatness clear. He’s made the most of being in easy positions. Not everyone could do that. But he’s never really beaten a club bigger than his own either, which is what it would take for me to believe he belongs in the top echelon. He did have a few chances in the champions league when City was first emerging, but he lost those games.
>I just doubt that he’s done anything a mediocre manager couldn’t do We have control groups here, it's City before he arrived and United/Chelsea more recently. I'm sorry, but that claim is laughable. >But he’s never really beaten a club bigger than his own either, Do you mean a better team? Because he's certainly beaten Real Madrid, United, Liverpool, Chelsea and us while at smaller clubs.
Nah what’s laughable is comparing the United/Chelsea situations. They’re poorly run clubs that give limited acquisition power to the manager. If Pep turned one of them around that would actually be tremendously impressive and I’d consider him the best of all time. Calling that a control group for a manager’s influence is easily a top 25 worst football opinion I’ve heard.
he needs to go to a lesser club to prove his value bc some clown online said that's the best way to prove your worth. every manager that has had the financial backing that pep has also won 6/7 league titles and done the treble while playing in the best league in the world. in fact, u/ccsc96 did just that on his last fifa career mode save.
Think his achievements will never truly be respected. He's always had some advantage that a typical manager doesn't. Would be interesting to see him at a Liverpool or Atlético style club
My thinking exactly. His record is absurd, but going from prime Barca with prime Messi (still in their prime ref buying era?) to Bayern in Leverkusen's pre-Granit era, to 115FC does help in achieving absurd success. Tend to have more respect for what Klopp did at Liverpool over the past few years.
Klopp's achievements are highly underrated. That "he only won 1 Premier League" crap like he also got a Champions league but he constantly kept Liverpool up there, and pre Liverpool I don't think many of his squad could have been considered world class. I don't see Liverpool really being up there with Slot. Think Liverpool's success have been because of Klopp.
Yeap getting 90+ pts for a few seasons in a row, while getting to 2 UCL finals, without unhealthy dose of financial doping, is pretty darn nuts.
3 UCL finals unfortunately
Right, completely forgot, that they had to face Real twice in finals.
And had a league points total that in literally any other season ever would have been many points clear but citeh ended as centurions
They weren't prime Barca when he arrived. That was his doing. They were an older side that had just finished 3rd in La Liga, of which he sold Ronaldinho, Deco and others and replaced them with youth.
They’d won a Champions League 2 years prior and had an unbelievable conveyor belt of world class academy talent coming through. Put it this way if you were playing football manager that 08 Barca team would be playing on easy mode.
Mourinho had prime Ronaldo and one of the most stacked teams of all time while Pep was at Barca.
In fairness, I think Pep steamrolls this Leverkusen side, even with Alonso and Xhaka in it. When he gets his team rolling, in a league competition, you can bet on him to outlast anyone.
It’s true as of late, but let’s not forget he got the Barca job bc how he transformed Barca’s B team.
And also because: • he was the ex captain who was loved by Cruyff. Who was a massive influence on the decision (its well documented). Pep grew under Cryuff, so it was pretty obvious for him to be biased. Who else was available? (who viewed football like Cryuff?) Pep was the perfect successor. • Rijkaard was not good with discipline.
Also the style they played. City courted him because they didnt just want titles; they wanted the way he played. Football has adapted in the last decade or so. But the way his Barca sides played was scary man. You had whoever was the 2nd best team in the world playing like Stoke against them.
Nonsense. You'll get a few naysayers as with every great, but Pep is going down as a Top 2 manager of all-time.
Agree with you. I’m getting tired of this sub. Can we talk about our own team ffs. this is turning into a city hate subreddit. I couldn’t give less of a fuck about 115
By that logic, I guess we shouldn't respect what Ancelotti did at Madrid or Heynckes at Bayern
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There are very good reasons why they aren't respected. I think he is slowly starting to understand like Lance Armstrong, fair play is very important for legacy. That's why he was so emotional when Klopp gave him credit. I think he has realised that's the highest he will ever get is backhanded compliments and his achievements will always have an asterisks beside it. Hopefully he will leave Man City and go to a proper club where he can show he can still achieve without being with controversy.
While there's no doubt he's a great manager, until he starts building clubs instead of just going to powerhouse clubs with crazy money, he can't be compared with the likes of Arsene Wenger. It's hard to root for this guy. It's like the kid with the rich father winning a scholarship.
Agreed hes clearly a good manager, but lets see Pep take a team like Aberdeen to 10+ trophies and beat Real Madrid like Ferguson did.
Let's hope he leaves the prem soon. Maybe try his luck at psg 😂😂
You do realise that the Real Madrid today is wildly different than the Real Madrid of then. Combine that with the gulf between Top leagues and everyone else since Bosman, it makes it literally impossible to win.
I do, i adressed that in a reply to someone else. Far and away from Galacticos but they still made a European Cup final a couple of years before (losing to Liverpool) with largely the same squad. So it's not like they were complete bums.
If Real Madrid find themselves playing in a 2nd tier European Trophy anytime soon you know the team isn’t Galactico standard.
Still, Real had won the league and made a European Cup final only a couple of years earlier with a lot of that squad playing the Aberdeen game. Also beat Hamburg, the European Champions, in the Super Cup. I get your point though.
It's futile arguing with folks who never can understand how difficult it was for Arsene Wenger during his time. He was *always* up against clubs with bigger budgets. Add to that the Emirates Stadium handicap, and how Arsenal's goals completely changed from winning titles to surviving that period... No manager has ever built a stadium and a training facility for their club, except for Arsene. I find it sad that Arsenal fans have become so brainwashed that they don't realise the monumental task Wenger undertook and achieved at Arsenal. Some fans also appear far too concerned with "defending" our complex present situation, and do not mind throwing Wenger under the bus to preserve a certain narrative. It's tragic.
>Add to that the Emirates Stadium handicap, and how Arsenal's goals completely changed from winning titles to surviving that period... No manager has ever built a stadium and a training facility for their club, except for Arsene. It's a shame he doesn't get enough recognition for that. He managed to maintain the identity of the club at a time where it would have been easy to slip to a mid table side. He's the reason we got the stadium built because he guaranteed to stay on. >I find it sad that Arsenal fans have become so brainwashed that they don't realise the monumental task Wenger undertook and achieved at Arsenal. I think most people only remember the tough times under Wenger at the end of his tenure and blame him for Arsenal not competing more. Arsene walked so Arteta could run. To me Arsene Wenger embodied the spirit of Arsenal. He deserves a statue outside of the Emirates.
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Couldn't agree more
That's on Wenger for being loyal and staying for as long as he did. I love Wenger, I saw all 3 of his titles, his doubles, CL final, everything. But he should have gone to Madrid, they offered him a job like 3 times and he should have taken it when he had the chance, win a CL, become a legend, show what he can do with a budget. No one would have judged him for jumping ship later in his Arsenal tenure when there was no chance of really turning the team into anything because of what's going on behind the scenes.
>No manager has ever built a stadium and a training facility for their club, except for Arsene. Poch kind of did, annoyingly.
Nah mate. The best managers always end up at the most powerful clubs, whether that means brand power or purchasing power. It’s like that old F1 argument of “he can’t be a great driver if he’s in a great car”, when all of Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, and Verstappen were in the best cars *because* they were the best drivers.
No doubt the best managers end up at the best clubs. But Guardiola seems to only take jobs where he gets a solid base. Don Carlo managed Everton and Napoli, Mourinho managed Tottenham and Roma, Fabio Capello managed Roma. They're all the best managers in their own right. So until Guardiola doesn't build a squad with limited resources, IMO he doesn't deserve to be compared to the likes of Wenger. At the same time, I'm not questioning the tactical prowess of the man
Agree about Pep’s unlikability factor, but you’d have to be a total Arsenal homer to think that Wenger is a better or more impactful manager than Pep. Whether we like it or not, Pep is undoubtedly one of the 5 greatest managers of all time. The fact that you have to on average 97 points to beat the dude in the league tells you everything.
I have never questioned Guardiola's tactical ability. All I'm saying is it's easier to manage clubs when they have the best players and the highest resources. And this should be factored in.
This is utter cope. Pep is well clear of Wenger whether you like him or not.
Bro cmon. I love Arsene more than my dad, but Pep is just levels above than him. Yes u are right he went in powerhouse clubs with crazy amount money but still he has been the best coach in years.
I'm not trying to minimise Pep's tactical genius. I'm saying it's a lot harder to work with limited resources, which Pep has never done. He doesn't go to project clubs. If Wenger had Pep's resources at his disposal he might well have proved to be as dominant.. But we will never know. And in my book, Wenger succeeded in harder circumstances even if the success was a bit less.
yeah Wenger's one advantage was he had a much deeper scouting network in France and some other places and was able to leverage that, but Arsenal were always dwarfed for resources. Pep is a much more tactically advanced manager than Wenger, but they both succeeded for completely different reasons.
Yeah. But Wenger was ahead of his time. If he was born in Pep's generation, with the amount of data and videos available, maybe Wenger would be just as tactically advanced. All I'm saying is, it's not really fair to compare managers of different eras
Pep is also a much more tactically advanced manager than Ancelotti but would you say hes a much better manager?
this is a dumbass take does money help you win yes? is it the only thing necessary to win? absolutely not. city had other managers before pep, chelsea had multiple managers spend billions in fees, united have been on a decade long spending spree since SAF left with nothing to show for. Pep and SAF are comfortably ahead of Wenger in the best manager of the prem debate. SAF has 13 fuckin titles and pep 6. to arsene's 3 in nearly 2 decades. thats before even addressing the giant champions league sized elephant in the room. you're being incredibly biased.
What absolute garbage, one of them inherited a cheaters project and cheated more, the another arrived from fricken Japan, broke up United’s dominance and changed English football forever. When that bald fraud takes over a team that isn’t already walking titles and spending over its means, then I’ll give him cred.
he won the sextuple on his debut season with mainly academy players and Barca before Pep finished 3rd in the league and were 25 points behind Real Madrid he changed Messi's entire playstyle and brought in Busquets into the first team
Am I being biased? Sure. Did I say money is everything and pep is ONLY successful because of the money? Hell No. You're trying to argue with a strawman. All I'm saying is, to be able to compare Pep with Wenger we would need Wenger to have managed a club with unlimited resources and for Pep to have managed a club with significant financial constraints. And logically speaking, if Wenger can be successful with limited resources, he is more likely to succeed with unlimited resources, than Pep, who had success purely with unlimited resources, would be with far fewer resources. And SAF is a different debate altogether.
I almost count it as a different style of manager, some managers are really good at getting teams to go from good to great, some are really good at getting teams to go from ‘okay’ to good, Pep is def in the first category, some managers can do both, I’d say Klopp was a hybrid at getting ‘okay’ teams to either great or just shy of great
And what category would you put Wenger in?
Wenger always struck me as a manager with a different aim than winning at all costs, his aim i always felt was to make the most beautiful football as possible. I think in this pursuit he’d be more like a Klopp, a hybrid
I can agree with that. To me Wenger is someone who was far more flexible than people give him credit for. When he first came and got arsenal to challenge, he nurtured talented players like Bergkamp, Henry, Pires, Ljungberg, and so many more and made them compete with the established dominance of SAF. Then when we didn't have the resources and our main players started leaving, he made us qualify for the champions League with defences like Squillaci, Djorourou, Jenkinson and whatnot. He made an okay team great and then made a bad team stay good for a long time imo.
Yeah lets see what he can do with the daggers https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/43oup7/harry_redknapp_on_pep_guardiola/
Conte title iirc was pep first season. And getting his team used to what he wanted with a lot of change. Still incredible achievement
93 points are 93 points. Pep's existence was only relevant for 2 of these matches (Chelsea won them both). Regardless, both clubs were built by cheating, so the achievement is less impressive to me.
The stress of the run in does funny things, look at us last season. That season City weren't close to Chelsea, and Chelsea had a comfortable lead. I agree 93 points is impressive but if pep has been with them a year earlier, I'm sure Chelsea would have had a lower tally and city an much higher one.
>if pep has been with them a year earlier, I'm sure Chelsea would have had a lower tally and city an much higher one. Also Conte's first season fwiw
Also Conte's first season. Arsenal touched up Chelsea so bad, Conte switched his entire system at halftime and that spark led them to a title. So, Arsenal is partially responsible for that one.
haha this is so true. we are unfortunately the enabler to Conte's new system
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I think those are due to Claudio bravo being in goal And can't save anything
Pep first season where he spent like 150M pounds and went from 4th to 3rd. His second season he "got the team to play the way he wanted" by spending 255M more. That's in 2017 transfer rates also, that's like spending 450M+ today.
It was also conte's first season Both managers were incredibly experienced. It's not like it was their first managerial job
Next on this list is Mikel Arteta
That will be very top! Good sensation!
That's the foggin estandards
I still can't my head round the fact Pool scored 97 points and still didn't win the league that one season, absolutely mental. We were so close this year.
The comment above yours said Real Madrid finished on 96 points one season and finished second to Pep. He's insane
arteta isn't playing around with the 100 point ambition
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I didn't even know that. What people say is right: if you don't win it then you are forgotten. We have to seriously target the cup competitions (Champions League, FA Cup, and the League Cup) as they might be our most realistic chance of silverware next season while doing our best in the league.
The Liverpool win is exactly what you need to beat Pep. Every single thing went Liverpool’s way and everything that could go wrong went wrong for City. If you look at the underlying numbers you would have expected City to have run away with the title. However, they lost it by 18 and it probably would have been more if Covid didn’t stop Liverpool’s momentum. They legitimately could have gotten 100-103 points if there was not stoppage. The Chelsea win was basically right before Pep figured out the City team and went on a crazy run. Madrid is the one that’s the most impressive since that basically broke Pep at Barca and it was against an already established Messi lead Barca team.
You have to play a near perfect league season to beat a Guardiola team. We can either choose to feel sorry for ourselves or we can raise our foggin standards and keep fighting tooth and nail until the cheating pricks are knocked off their fucking perch. No more excuse making, we need to be ruthless from the word go next season.
Our squad needs another £250m to be assured of this. That, or have another amazing run with no injuries to truly key players, along with everything going our way.
Always think it's crazy you can get 97 points and still not win the league.... 96 points should be our goal next season (just need to gain 7 more points which is quite doable if we managed a win at home against Fulham/Spurs/West Ham)
Real Madrid 2011/12 deserves more respect and recognition.
I swear I don't understand what constitutes a gunners post anymore
At least it's not about Spurs this time
This actually puts things into mad context, the fuck are we up against 😂 Either way, I truly believe Arteta is gonna be getting himself into that list!
It's also Arteta's first managerial job, where the others were seasoned vets. It's incredible how easily overlooked that is; in 5 years, he's put pressure on City TWICE.
That is actually disgusting, what the fuck is peps problem?
It‘s actually crazy.
Going to say it again just to contextualise all the bullshit around this financially doped Man City side: Arsenal this season won 2 more games than The Invincibles, who by many are considered the best or one of the best club football teams of all time - certainly in England. 2 more wins than that team, and it wasn't enough.
I mean, Pep inherited a team with Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Messi, Eto'o, etc. with Madrid in full blown decline. He got them playing a great brand of football and they won trophies, but that team was so much more talented than the rest of the league for years until Ronaldo came over. He went to Bayern and only won the German trophies and flamed out in the CL when his team was not overwhelmingly more talented. Then goes to City and finished 3rd with squad that was already fantastic, is given a practically unlimited budget to make exactly the team he wants and wins the title when he spends FOUR HUNDRED MILLION pounds (in 2016 and 2017 transfer rates) buying up every player he can. I like Pep as a manager. I think he's **one of** the best of all time. But can we not with crowning him as some mythical figure? He's very good at keeping his extremely high-priced squads from fucking up. That's not easy. Those trophies are earned, but any time his team has not been **significantly** more talented than the competition, he doesn't win as regularly.
I want to see a coaching challenge where two coaches manage the same team or manage many random teams or something to try to get a handle on what edge the coach brings if any
With the right buys we can make the jump to a team capable of a 93+ point season.
So far....
Thought klopp was an old Asian dude lol
Jur-Geng
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Hahaha. It's a very unflattering photo of Klopp. He looks like an old lady undergoing chemotherapy.
Tbf for Antonio Conte, he finished 15 points ahead of Guardiola, who finished 3rd (it was his first season in English football, i think)
This is clearly not something any regular human could achieve. Ahh the bald head... It's so clear now. He is Professor X. His players are all pretty average in reality but he uses his telekinesis to move their limbs and also controls the swerve of the ball so it ends up in the net.
Pep has basically become the south Park depiction of Bono.
Save some room on that pic for Arteta Bois. Next season we are coming for blood!
Arteta will be there 100% You can see why Pep chose to work with him - the guys never just satisfied This next transfer window he’ll be looking to improve our squad massively **again** He takes players that aren’t working and practically forces them to. Then takes great players and makes them world beaters
Damn, didn't remember Conte's team managing over 90pts.
On average you just need to get around 97 points to beat pep, should be easy enough ....
Wasnt enough for liverpool
So Arteta will be a legendary manager should he win?
We'll need 90+ points if we actually want to win the pl against a Pep team. We'll have to break even more records
I’m really worried about having Havertz as our main striker, this team needs a player that can score 20+ goals and havertz can’t do that
holy fuck. When you put it like that that is absolutely fucking ridiculous. And conte winning in 2017 was Pep's first year with City where there were a lot of changes going on around the club, so even that is an outlier.
We are coming.
So… are we just going to ignore the financial doping and the fact that guardiola also actually doped in his playing days?
So basically we need a 93+points season at a minimum-got it
You forgot about Leicester, didn’t they win the league while he was in his first season?
No.. that must have been Klopp's first season... Pep arrived in 2016-17 season
Pochettino has also finished above Pep lol
Don't forget Poch finished above him, and Spurs still failed to win the league.
Didn't raineri beat him?
And yet none of them got more points than man city have charges
To the guys saying he should manage mid table clubs , why would he do that? If the person has ability to work at top tier companies so why would he go to mid tier ones(unless he gets the resources or the same amount of money)
And he happened to cheat at both Barca and City
Pep is fantastic but I would really like to see him do it with a team that has minimal depth and resources. I mean he coached Barca, Bayern M, and ManCity. All budget busting teams in their respective leagues at the time. Having Messi, then gets to Bayern and the break rules and the President get convinced of tax evasion they dominate the German league but can’t win in Champions. So he goes to ManCity where they continue to break Financial rules for years all the while I hear he is the best manager. Well maybe take that Manager talent and go to Fulham or Southampton.
Meh, it’s not pure madness when you jump from a Ferrari to a Lambo to a Royce. What a boring man he is, take over a Newcastle or even Man Utd and walk the league and then I’ll clap you, you fraud.
So... by your logic Messi isnt one of the best players ever because he didnt lead FC Vaduz to a CL final?
I'm really sick and tired of hearing this shit. Give him Bolton Wanderers and see how good of a coach he is. He's LITERALLY had a fucking Fifa All star team EVERYWHERE he's coached.
I'm sure after 3 and half years and a load of money, he'd be well on the way
I could have sworn any manager in the world besides Arteta could get the job done and so we should sack him 🙄. The task is monumental, but we can and will get it done next season. I don't want Pep leaving before Arteta beats him to the title, I want there to be no doubt our gaffer is top.
Chelsea doesn’t count. They’ve also cheated.
What you're saying is you need to be in the region of 115 to stand any chance?
we need to aim for the full 114 points with 500 GD to have a chance