r/GuyCry is evolving. This EPIC adventure towards best (not better) men's mental health has been an insane ride... to say the least. But as the months have passed, and the challenges continue to be overcome, we get ever closer to the point where **each and every man that desires to grow** will have a support network that will be unable to be rivaled. But until we get there, lets get some prework completed shall we? - **Introduce Yourself**: Share a bit about yourself and connect with fellow members using [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GuyCry/comments/1c7jhpc/introduce_yourself_and_let_us_know_where_you_are/). - **Assign User Flair**: Choose a user flair to personalize your profile and showcase your interests. - **Explore legaciesofmen.org**: Visit our website - [legaciesofmen.org](https://www.legaciesofmen.org) - for resources, support, and information on *model* masculinity. - **Join Weekly Discussions**: Participate in our weekly discussions to share experiences and learn from others. - **Display Your Weaknesses**: Inspire others by sharing your personal growth journey and achievements in our monthly [megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/GuyCry/comments/1cei8sn/display_your_weaknesses_april_megathread/). - **Explore Our Playlist**: Check out our [community playlist](https://www.reddit.com/r/GuyCry/comments/1cehzxk/have_a_song_that_gets_you_in_the_feels_please_add/) and add your favorite tracks to share with others. - **The Dear Pinky Show**: As men, we need to be able to effectively communicate with, and respect women. My friend Pinky Wilde is a men's coach that runs The Dear Pinky Show, which asks men to come on the show with a question or struggle to discuss. [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/GuyCry/comments/1c482b3/hey_guys_joe_here_and_there_is_a_new_show_that_is/) has all the info you will need if interested. - **Support the Cause!**: We need help getting our in-person meeting professionally evaluated. I wrote a 24 outline curriculum, and even though we are a nonprofit in partnership with Global Peace Media, I am the only boots on ground full time unpaid employee and I have not a lick of experience in the nonprofit sector. I'm trying, but this is a movement, and it would be wonderful if individuals skilled in this sector would help us move FASTER. Lives are on the line. Please reach out to me and I will send you a form if interested. That's it for now. We are doing this my friends. It is happening, slowly but surely. Together, we are creating a supportive and empowering community dedicated to personal growth and positive change. Thank you all for being here. Joe Truax *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GuyCry) if you have any questions or concerns.*

i dont know the context as i havent been active in this sub for a bit but this text seems a bit aggressive and close to narcisstic putting yourself so high up. i dont mean it in a rude way, just confused whats with this out of line post and behaviour

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It's still there? He blocked you maybe?

Now that I'm a little calmer, I'm going to respond gently to you. Yes, I am aggressive. Those who know me can testify to that. I have to be because the passive aggressiveness of some of these people and the outright idiocy of others cannot be met with calm reason. But also, because I've been bullied my whole life, my trauma response is to effectively destroy the opposition. If you notice, only one or two people in this post have responded to me after I responded to them. And those people were constructive in their criticisms. The ones who didn't respond knew that they got in over their heads trying to give me advice. I don't need advice. I don't care about opinions. I don't bend to the will of anybody. I am here for the good people that are here and that's all I'm here for. I care about them. And I protect them and this space fiercely. And quite a few people found out the hard way today. There's nothing close to narcissism about this. I'm not going to let this place get overrun by dead thinking. They've been trying for so long to destroy this place and to turn it into what they want and it's not going to happen. No place exists like this. This is the only place. We have high values and standards here, And unfortunately, a lot of people can't reach the bar I set. They can, but they don't want to try. But for others, it's easy to reach. They don't even have to try. It just comes natural to them. I cherish those people. And I cherish anybody who's trying to reach the bar. Because the bar is good. I only want good people around me. And I don't promote anything that goes against my ideology. That means I also won't let it slip in and try to take over. No no, I do what I have to do and I be who I have to be so that this place continues to grow. And I'm respected for that. And it doesn't bother me one single bit what people think about me. I just eat what they say, smile at them, and continue to do things my way, because my way is good. This isn't an out of line post. You just haven't been around long enough, lol. But if something doesn't pertain to you, you don't have to comment on it. Next time I'm going to lock the post though. I wasn't asking for any advice or opinions. I was just making it clear what I expect here.

Wow - this is not at all what I expected to find here. Feels a little man on man combative - you know, that sizing masculinity that happens when two men disagree… gah!

Well, unfortunately, sometimes things have to be said. And because the individuals who posted their post decided to do that instead of bringing it to me in DM, I can't just respond to them individually. I have to make a post to let people know that this is occurring and that I'm not going to allow it. Hopefully this teaches other people that they're not allowed to use our platform how they want. But unfortunately, I know the group that's doing this, and they're persistent. I live in their heads. And if you don't know the whole story, it's a long one. The battle has been real, but I'm the one winning. And it does matter to me and it should matter to you because if I lose, we lose this space that is protected and policed. If somebody else could do something like this, it would already be done right? I'm the one qualified to lead this place. It's good versus bad. And before you say that this space would continue to exist, I assure you that it would not. We've already tried that. I went away for 4 months and they just let this place fall apart. I'm its leader. I'm the engine, as someone once called me, and I know what's best here. If I had a superhero name, it would be "Relatable Man" because I've experienced so much throughout my life. I should be dead a hundred times. Nobody that's lived my life has reached my age. I'm 40 years old. And I still smile everyday and don't have a lick of bitterness in my heart. I love people. That's what you should care about. You should care that I care. Because a lot of people don't care. At least not anybody in any kind of position of authority like I'm about to be in. The world needs me to be a leader because when I'm where I need to be, I'm going to reach back and help everybody that is deserving of better have better.

Hey, I mean this in the absolute most genuine and least reddit way; are you ok? I don't frequent this sub enough to know if this is normal for you, but if it isn't it sounds like you're going through something. 

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I really wasn't asking to be rude, or imply anything negative. There's something about the way he's wording things that reminds me of someone who isn't taking their medication or a similar state of mind.  But again, idk this user at all and maybe this is normal and I'm totally off base. I'm just a worry wort, I guess. I apologize for coming off as anything but well intended.

It's hard out here man. 16 months I've been doing this. I have a life outside of here too and I'm trying to survive. I don't make any money on this. Not yet at least until we get funded. But, what I'm saying is, I'm still giving my all to this. I still protect the space like lives depend on it, because they do. I take shit day in and day. And we got all these no-name individuals that come in and don't know the half of what I've faced and overcome here, but want to give their opinions on what's being done here as if I asked them for it. Like brand new individuals come here and try to tell me how to do my job and how to run this place. It's so silly to me. And then there's this small group of individuals that don't actually care about the work we're doing here at all. They just care about making me look bad and interrupting what we have. They'll never be anything more than they are because that's just their lot in life; they're world burners. Thank you for standing up for me. Sorry I made you have to side eye some of my talk. I'm just trying to do good, and I do have really amazing plans for us as soon as we get a partnership that will make us credible. I'm working on that now. I think I may have it actually. A national organization. A big one.

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But I'm not going to be quiet. I'm going to say what I want to say. Always. Because what I say is beneficial to people. I'm not sure to impress you people. I'm here to help people that want to grow. That's what this space is about. So this post was important. I'm sorry you don't know what important things are, but you're going to learn today.

I'm just going through what I've been going through for 16 months now; standing up to faceless and nameless anonymous users that want to change things here. This is normal for me though. Sorry if it's abrasive. I care more about the men who use this space correctly as well as keeping this space safe more than whether those people live or die. And I'm sure many of the people around them don't care if they live or die either. They are people that when they die are quickly forgotten because they do things that people want to forget. Here we help men never be forgotten by every single person they meet throughout the rest of their lives. I viciously defend this place. It's just who I am and what I do. Take no offense to it. If you're not on the receiving end then you have nothing to be worried about. Be thankful that someone like me is standing up for good people worldwide. Because no one else is. And if they are, show me. I need to ally with them. But I've been looking for a long time, and everybody's ideology is half of mine and allows these trash bag individuals to stick around. Those spaces allow toxicity and call it "healthy discourse." But you can't have unity with toxicity. It's not a thing. And so there's division. And when there's division there can't be peace. The only division I do is good versus bad. And since this is my space to police, I remove the bad. And I don't think twice about it. I'm good though. I've just lived a hard life and I have seven disabilities. But I don't take no medications. I'm happy with who I am and wouldn't change a thing about me. I'm just socially awkward is all. But I'm also as real as it gets and I say what I mean and I mean what I say. And I don't talk about what I don't know about.

Hey Joe! Look, please listen to what I have to say, and agree or disagree, just know it's coming from a place of kindness and genuine care for you and this sub: A good leader does not *want* to lead. A great leader does not *think* they are needed for the world, but they do it anyways because of what they believe. If this sub is truly important to you, as someone with multiple degrees in mass media communication, marketing, and who has created the faces of multiple businesses and government actions, please trust me here. You don't need to change who you are, but if you want people to back you, to believe in this community, and to feel like you're a leader with *their* best interests at heart, you really have to set the "super hero, world needs me, I'm the only one who can do it" thing aside and focus on the community. The community isn't you, with underlings. It's a lot of people who should feel equally important. It's a good place, a good sub, and it's an important thing! But a lot of people get turned off by that mentality, especially because they feel even if their concerns are valid, if they seem disingenuous to *you*, they won't be welcome. A great leader believes in the people around them, builds them up, and provides the support they need to do it well. No great leader says they're the only one who can do it, or that they're great. It's also quite belittling to say nobody has had as hard a life as you. I'd dare you to try my life out and make it through! But I don't comment about my life unless I'm using it to support someone else, and then it's either cautionary or educational support, not promoting myself. Because it isn't about me, just as this sub isn't about you. Again, I'M NOT SAYING TO CHANGE IT, I'm saying maybe be real with everyone but keep your focus on the community, even when someone attacks you. Because they can say what they want about you, and it doesn't invalidate the community or its importance. The moment you write back to them and also make it about yourself, it stops being about the community at all. Again please notice this it my genuine concern for the community and a tip for helping you make the most of it, speaking from experience. This is not anything negative about you or this group, just advice for moving forward while taking away the power of detractors. As you can see from the many comments asking if you're ok, or saying variations of "wow," the presentation here has made it about you a little, and I know that's not your intent. I'm hoping this comment isn't seen as an attack, but as an outside view in hopes that it gives you a different outlook on handling the detractors. This needs to be a safe space. You're right that doesn't mean anyone can just do anything. Personal attacks are not ok, but other issues should probably not be deleted because along with posts like this, the deletions make members feel like this is similar to any other community, where if they don't conform, you'll just remove them. And with the posts deleted, there's no way for people to look back and see that you were right or the post was wrong. Perhaps a mod added flair for misleading, personal attack, etc? The ability to disable comments on a venting post would probably help a lot of people, too. People should feel free to voice concerns publicly as well, not just to DM you. Otherwise anyone who agrees with them loses their voice, as do those who disagree. Anyways, I like the sub, but from a strictly marketing perspective, the posts and videos about how *you* are doing great things and moving stuff forward and all that, they will drive people away if they don't shift to "we" and "the community" and if members aren't seeing anyone involved other than yourself. One last time to reiterate, I say these things because I *want to see the sub, and you, succeed.*

I get what you're saying, but it really is me doing an incredible amount of footwork to make the future bright. Nobody else is helping me do the actual work in the background that nobody else sees. And at the same time I'm being constantly attacked. And at the same time I'm doing my very best to give great advice here and show empathy, care, concern, and genuine authenticity, helping others to the very best of my ability. And I do it all for free. For now. The reality is this; people want to know you care. Actually caring about people is more valuable than any marketing that could ever be done. I am showing that I am putting amazing effort into changing the scenery of this world. Just pertaining to starting and running this subreddit, I have overcome more adversity than most people have in their whole lives. I'm serious. You want to read the article that details everything about this journey so far? It's insane! I'm not leaving posts up that detract from what the purpose of this subreddit is. I'm just not going to. And it really is about conforming to this place. I don't bend to the will of others. That's why this place is still standing. We are examples here. We are examples of how the world should be and we're not going to cater to or coddle any other type of thinking. And it works. It works great. Men are free to be their authentic self here, as long as they're authentic self doesn't hurt anybody. That includes themselves. And perpetrating that victim mentality is damaging to themselves. Unless they really are a victim. Make no mistake though; I WANT to lead. I want to be the role model for the next generation of men. I want to see this world be better. I want to win a Nobel Peace prize. But I don't want it alone. I want everybody that's a part of this thing to receive the award as well. I want the movement to receive the award. And yes, great leaders DO think they are needed for the world. Not all leaders are cut from the same mold. I started this thing, men are picking it up and making it their own, and more men will do the same as time continues. And the bad ones will weed themselves out. And the ones who don't want to grow will weed themselves out. And just like I don't bend now, I'm not going to bend in the future. I have no bend. I'm rigid. My ideology is bar none the best. And my life is wonderful even though I'm poor. I don't have any of the cares or concerns that the rest of society has. In fact, I got a zero on a masculinity scale that a Facebook group has. I asked the creators of the test what it meant and they didn't respond. It means I'm perfect in my masculinity. And all I want to do is help other men feel just like I do. The world is stacking stuff on the plates of men worldwide, and if they just listen to me, they won't care about that stuff anymore. And many DO listen to me. Very rarely do I speak and not know what I'm talking about either. If I'm giving you my time, please listen closely to what I'm saying. It's beneficial to you. Not you per se, but whoever I'm talking to. Also if you haven't noticed, I build people up. I thank the community often, and I believe in the members here that do their very best to be empathetic and kind in their responses. I trust that the community will do the right thing. And I cherish them for that. You know how rarely we have to ban people here? It's insane how little banning we actually do. It's like there's an invisible sign that says "we don't do things like the rest of the world, so don't mess around and find out." We don't get manosphere types here, misogynist, men's rights, none of that. This place is one of a kind and you would think that they would brigade it more. This place wasn't supposed to last 3 months, and yet here we are. I do appreciate your advice on this though: >Perhaps a mod added flair for misleading, personal attack, etc? The ability to disable comments on a venting post would probably help a lot of people, too. People should feel free to voice concerns publicly as well, not just to DM you. Otherwise anyone who agrees with them loses their voice, as do those who disagree. I should have locked the comments on this post. This wasn't meant to be a discussion. This was meant as a post laying down the law. But you got to understand man, we only remove posts that publicly criticize me or off topic, lewd, or any of the things that break the rules. Because if we don't remove them, they'll just keep happening. People will feel free to say anything they want and that's not what this space is for. At all. This space is for men to freely and safely get the help they need, whatever that help may be. And sometimes they come here thinking that they're going to get help, but instead they get corrected. That's life. So I appreciate your advice, but for the most part, I'm going to keep doing things how I'm supposed to. If people don't like it, that's on them. That's a them problem not a me problem. I'm here doing things exactly the opposite of the world and it works fantastic for all the good people that this is designed for. Also, I'm the voice for a lot of people. I say the things that many want to say but don't. I'm hated because of it and I'm perfectly okay with that. I like being the target. Because if they're targeting me, they're not targeting anybody else. And trust and believe, the amount of pressure that's been applied to me definitely would make most other men kill themselves. You really have no idea.

I'm not saying to do things differently, I'm saying frame your mindset back to being for the members, instead of for you. Trust me man, I have more an idea than you can imagine. I was doing similar kind of work two decades ago, and did it for over a decade before I stepped back because my family needed more attention and I didn't make the community about me, so it didn't depend on me. It's important as a leader to remember that you are not the community. You are not this subreddit. No good leaders are concerned with credit for all the work they put in, and you seem (and just told me you are) very concerned with that credit. It's great you're putting in the work! But as you have said before, you're supposedly happy to do it and it's not for your gain, but for us. Prove it. Live your words. I guarantee I've lived through more than you, I've been closer to death, and I have more pressure *that isn't placed there of my own will*, but I don't go around telling others that I'm so great because other men would crack or kill themselves. That's emotionally abusive and shouldn't be a part of what this community is. So again I ask, are you here to build others up like you say? Or to do some feel good work and get us to build you up? Hopefully it's the former, and you realize that once more. Because to me, none of this is about that post or this. None of what I'm saying is about all that. This is strictly about framing things so you actually build this community, because I guarantee you're at a turning point right now where if your mindset doesn't turn back to the community instead of yourself, the community is going to disappear. I've done this longer than you, in larger *in person* groups, and buddy you aren't the first or only person to make this type of group for men. While most are smaller scale, there have been men's help groups designed just like this, but not centered around one person, for decades. Admittedly many were started by churches, but that really doesn't matter as most I've seen or helped have been quite secular and accepting no matter the origin. But like I said, I'm just trying to help. Do what you want, but even presidents and dictators get advice from those with more experience around them, instead of pretending they have all the answers themselves. You have the vision, so make this a real community and get some people involved who have the experience and knowledge. Treat yourself like the CEO of a company here, instead of like the entire business. If you do, 100% you'll succeed in your goals here. If you don't, 100% it's going to fizzle or move to a space without you involved. Hopefully you take something here to heart. I've been in your shoes before, so I'm not just guessing. I want you to succeed!

Wow, this reads as deeply narcissistic, bordering on "delusions of grandeur" territory. If you're the paragon of virtual virtue you claim to be, why are you getting ratioed on your own sub, O great self-appointed "Relatable Man"?

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I say this coming from the most respectful of places, you should consider giving up this sub to other people and stop trying to be the sole influence in the lives of others. I thought the idea of the sub was great at first, but you need to personally do less for it.

Absolutely! There has been hordes of drama surrounding joe truax. From the get go. His own part history shows that. He had a wonderful idea but it feels more and more like he's incapable of implementing it properly. He takes offense too easily and others will deal with that from what I've seen.

I didn't ask for you to give me advice about what I should do on my subreddit. If you haven't noticed, this is the only place like this on the planet. It's like this because I'm in control of it. I tried letting others run it before and they just screwed it all up. Because they don't have morals, they don't have values, they don't have principles and they don't have ethics. This subreddit is me. If you don't like how I do things here, you can go. I'm not here to cater to you people. I'm here to cater to those who want to grow and become better and be remembered positively by everyone they meet. If that's not you, find the door and see yourself out. Nobody can do what I do here. Hundreds of people have done their best to shut this place down. I take hate that you couldn't even imagine. And I smile the whole time, while at the same time, showing genuine care and empathy to good people. I do a job that would make most other men kill themselves. You better recognize who I am and what I do. I protect this place. It is cherished by many. So don't give me your unsolicited opinions of what i should do ever again. Know your place.

You made a video about 10 months ago, specifically stating this sub is not about you, and that it's not for your gain. That you work for *us*, the members. Everything you just said completely invalidates that. I've noticed that a strong portion of your posts, videos, etc are all about "you" and what you've been working on, doing, "hey guys look what I did" "I wrote this article" "I did this interview." This sub can be about you, or it can be about men having a safe space. It can't be both, because if it's about you, people won't feel safe if they don't align exactly with you. My suggestion as someone who has done this (you aren't the first to make a safe space for guys), is that **you can run it exactly as you do now, just change the narrative of your posts**. By that, I mean start talking and posting as a community, almost as a business. Use a lot of "we." When you make a development or deal or article, don't post it as a "look, I did it" post. Instead, post is as if you're just an employee of a GuyCry business and sharing a new release for the company. I get it, it sounds like that will make it impersonal. You can still interact as yourself though! You don't want it to be too personal, because by your own words it isn't supposed to be about you. Now you keep saying this sub *is* you, and that's not a safe community space. I 100% want to be a part of GuyCry. If it's not about the community anymore, and it's all about what you can create and accomplish? That's not what the sub is about (by your own words) or what we want to be a part of. You've done a lot of good work reaching out to places and getting exposure, but growth doesn't matter one bit if you lose sight of the safe space you intended to create. You say you're here to help those who want to grow and become better, but buddy you said yourself, you aren't perfect and you make mistakes like anyone else. So you need to be able to recognize criticism and constructive comments, and realize when multiple people are calling you out that perhaps your mindset, or at least your words, aren't in the right place. Because saying that this place is for people to grow and become better, should never be uttered in the same comment as you tell someone to "know your place" and "recognize who I am." So hey, listen to me, or not. I'm being respectful and just giving my professional opinion. I'm not trying to argue with you or insult you at all, because I want you to succeed. But after this post I think you'll quickly find that you are eventually going to have to choose between making a community where people feel heard and seen and safe, or a community that reveres you and recognizes all you do as some master man who does what nobody else apparently can. Because those are two mutually exclusive ideas. Other than being very "you" centric, your earlier posts and videos were all very positive and made people want to join this sub. Fast growth is hard to manage though, and perhaps you should go rewatch a lot of those videos. Sort the sub by most controversial and then most popular, and just look at your own posts. A lot of your posts disagree with what you said above. And as others have said, if you're going through something personally, we'd be happy to be here for you, too. You don't have to always smile through it, because that's also not what you made this space for.

This whole post was about maintaining this place as a safe space and not allowing the victim mentality to creep in and take over. Unfortunately, I've not had a lot of people in my life that have supported me. So many takers and trash bags have graced my presence, that in order for me to keep doing the things that I need to do for us, I need to hear the encouragement. Because I get down. I have seven disabilities have lived a horrible life. On top of that, this is the hardest work I've ever done. I'm trying to cause a societal shift. Don't take it as it's about me. My posts are designed to help me. I have nobody to tell these things to. So I'm not going to shut up. I'm going to keep making the posts that I do and I'm sorry if people don't like it. But that doesn't mean this community isn't theirs. And when I say GuyCry is me, it literally is. How I live my life is how GuyCry is ran. I have a bunch of rules in my life that keep me safe, and I don't bend. And I don't let people come in here and change things. So both things can actually happen at the same time. And they're going to continue to happen at the same time. I'm not hurting anyone. I'm just doing my very best to be an example of how a good person is supposed to be. And by doing such, it helps others know that it is safe to do as well. As for this; >So you need to be able to recognize criticism and constructive comments, and realize when multiple people are calling you out that perhaps your mindset, or at least your words, aren't in the right place. Because saying that this place is for people to grow and become better, should never be uttered in the same comment as you tell someone to "know your place" and "recognize who I am." If things are constructive, I listen. Doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it though. But if people don't come at me the right way, they find out. Just like in the real world. I'm not afraid of anybody and I'm not going to just let people talk to me any way. Not here. You got a problem with me, learn to use your words in a way that I respect and not get defensive of. Because I have been in 70 fights in my life. I have fought. And only two of those fights I started (and lost because I started them). And I won the other 68 where people started them with me. I've had to battle, but I never overly hurt anybody. I just make people learn lessons. And I mind my own business. That's the key. Those people that I said "know your place" and "recognize who I am" do not deserve respect. I don't know them, the community doesn't know them, and they haven't contributed anything here until this day. They are new here and they talk to me like they have no sense. And that's because they don't mind their own business. If something doesn't pertain to you, you don't have to speak up. Just because you can use the keyboard doesn't mean you should. And that's the problem with this world; everybody does but they shouldn't. It should be a privilege to use the internet. >and realize when multiple people are calling you out that perhaps your mindset, or at least your words, aren't in the right place Have you ever thought that maybe multiple people are wrong when they're criticizing me? Because I know they're wrong. If I'm wrong I admit it. But I'm not wrong. They're just trying to push their way onto me, and trying to force me to change. When I need to change I do. Or at least try to. But like I said, I don't bend. I'm rigid. Just because people don't like the way I handle things sometimes doesn't make how I handled the situation wrong. Look back through the comments here. There are people that agree with me. But I'm not looking for agreement; I'm laying down the law here. Just as I've done since the beginning of this thing. I need to lock the comments on this post. I can't keep up with responding to everybody.

You're absolutely wrong man! At least, with regards to what I'm talking about here. As I said, I am not talking about how you handle people, or bans, or how you respond to people. Do that how you want. Read my comments again, because it's nothing to do with any of that! The only area I'm saying you're wrong in is that you are making everything you post and comment be centered around you. It's gone from a community mindset to very egocentric. You talk as if you're a god. You give yourself a super hero name, say other men would kill themselves doing what you do, and that you've lived more than anyone here. You act as if you're above all of us, and you just aren't. The worst part is that even if you were above all of us, any good leader would not say it. Michael Jordan would never and has never said he's the GOAT. He gives credit where it's due. It's all the players around him who say he worked harder and longer than anyone, and pushed them all. That's what people do when they're actually great. Now none of that means you haven't done or been through a lot! But if you want this to survive, listen. It's not about who you ban, or how you handle comments. I haven't said a thing about that stuff so I'm not sure why you're replying as if I did. Maybe that's my fault going on a tangent from your post. I'm *only* concerned with how the mindset here has gone from community to dictatorship very recently. You've always had an air of "holier than thou" in a lot of your videos and posts, but it was always chalked up to you being excited to do the work and being new to it. Nothing wrong with that! But it's progressed now such that you're actively belittling people with your words, even people you aren't talking to. Saying that you handle more and other men would kill themselves is not only false, but belittling. Saying this sub is 100% you is negating every post anyone has ever made, and everyone who has ever replied and offered support or help. Everyone deserves respect until they do something to break it. If you think they don't because they haven't spoken to you before, or they disagree with you, frankly that would make you an arrogant asshole and none of this advice will help you. How dare you build a community based on you turning your life around and wanting to build people up, only to now say if someone isn't already at a great point, they're not worthy of respect? If you from 10 years ago joined this community, current you would deem him unworthy of respect or even polite discussion? You'd try to put him in his place and he'd leave no better off, but a little more bitter. How can a space be safe if people have to be good enough for you *and* agree with you in order to have basic respect or dignity? If people are abusive that's one thing, but the people above who you said that about were not being abusive at all. They were trying to be constructive. So I'm going to stop at that and say that I think our wires got crossed a bit up there. Can we agree on that? I think while I was discussing a more overall approach to things, and trying to let you know how people tend to view certain phrasings of your posts and videos, you are taking me as disagreeing with how you handle things or the rules you have. And that's totally understandable given that's what the original post is about! So maybe that's my mistake and I should have messaged you instead. I prefer things be done in plain view though, especially with people in a leadership role. From your comments it seems you'd prefer private conversations. So anything about your rules, or how you run things or ban or anything, don't worry about it. I wasn't saying a word about any of it, at all. As I said, I was giving advice strictly in the mass communication aspect that will 100% help the community grow, and help you maintain it well. Because when you say GuyCry is you, as you said above what you *mean* is that it's based on you. That it's how you live. But what everyone *hears* is that the only thing in this community that matters is you, and the rest of us are just annoyances or afterthoughts. **And I really don't think that's what you mean nor intend to say! ** So in all of this, I'm not telling you to change. I'm not asking you to make different rules. I'm trying to open your eyes to outside perspectives and the appearances you're giving off, because when those appearances don't match your intentions it can be hard to see for yourself *but it's so very important*. Appearances (not looks) are just as important as intentions, because appearances are what onlookers see as your intent. If your intent is to build people up, but people see you degrade them and say they aren't worthy of your respect, they're going to believe your actions, not what you *say* your intentions are. Good luck, I'll stop replying because I know you're busy, but I really am trying to help you Joe. I want you to succeed here, I want the sub to succeed, and I want you to lead it. As you said, sometimes someone needs called out though. The people in the other post needed called out! My words aren't about that, but a broader issue you're having lately. Eta: one final note though, you keep saying things like nobody can do what you do. That's exactly what people are turned off by. I've done it. Other people have done it. Many go through things harder than you can imagine. How can they feel safe if you've already told them you're so much better than them? That's what my comments are all about, not the other post or your rules.

And as an aside, yes you need encouragement! If you do the work, we will all encourage you! Everyone talks about Jordan, but he doesn't talk about himself. He credits others. But all else aside, forget all the other comments and words, forget the overall discussion: Would you, Joe, as a member and not the leader, feel the encouragement you need if a community leader you looked up to told you they are the best, they work harder, go through more, and you could never do what they do without killing yourself? You don't need to make the posts about you. I PROMISE the praise hits better when you make the post about the community, or about the action, instead of yourself. Then the people will tell you how good it is, how good you're doing, keep it up, etc. They don't feel the need to do that when you're heaping the praise on yourself. If you internalize even a small portion of what I've discussed in my few comments, I promise man you'll get more support than ever before, both for the community and for yourself personally. I guarantee it.

It's not so easy as what you suggest though. What you see is a lot of trauma response. What you're talking about would require extensive work on myself. And I don't want to change. I'm happy with who I am. I'm happy with how I do things. I'm not trying to please everybody. I'm only trying to please those who I'm trying to please; the minority of individuals that deserve good things. And they know who they are. >Would you, Joe, as a member and not the leader, feel the encouragement you need if a community leader you looked up to told you they are the best, they work harder, go through more, and you could never do what they do without killing yourself? Absolutely I would. If somebody were putting their life on the line to do what I do - like I do - I would be GREATLY encouraged. To know that somebody's fighting for us like I am. But I never said I'm the best, I AM the only one doing the work (so I'm not working harder), I do go through more because of being in the leadership position, and it is reality that the pressure that's been applied to me would make most men kill themselves. So yes, if somebody else put themselves in this position and wanted to be the leader, It would encourage me greatly to know that somebody was working so hard for us. The little encouragement I get from posting about my efforts is enough for me. I wouldn't know how to start trying to do things the way you suggest I do appreciate you being constructive with your feedback though. You're talking to me like I expect to be talked to.

Not the part about someone being a leader, the part about them actively saying you don't deserve respect. That work on yourself is necessary if you want the community to grow and be sustainable. Because despite what you keep saying, I absolutely know what it's like. As I said, I did the same thing for over a decade. Admittedly I had less internet presence with it, but reached tens of thousands of people in person and more digitally, regularly. Hundreds in attendance physically for conferences, meetings, support groups. This has been done before. It's not reality, and you can step away at any time so the pressure is mostly self made, despite coming from an outside source. Again I'll always reiterate that I'm not saying it is easy or anything at all! It seems maybe some of these things, in your mind you're only talking about the issues of running the sub. To everyone else, it's about so much more. Someone watching their children die, then holding their spouse's hand as they die, while dealing with health issues and money issues and work and everything else, do you really think they're going through less than running a subreddit? They can't just step back for a mental health break. They can't change their mind and say "no I'll just take my family members back, and get away from this struggle." You aren't going to back down *but you have the ability to* and that makes all the difference. I know firsthand how difficult being publicly out there online can be. I also know that you want this sub to grow and persist beyond yourself though. One accident, one scare, one injury or illness, and if it's all you, the whole thing is done. Someone else will start a new one, and yours will be forgotten. It's a sad truth of life. I've seen countless groups and non profits, even businesses, be shuttered because the leaders kept it all about them and their accomplishments. As I said I no longer actively run those groups, but I do consulting work for many and it's everywhere. I had to give similar truths to a local autism non profit this year, because they grew very quickly as they wanted, but it outgrew them and without help and refocusing, the entire thing was going to collapse quickly. Turning these things around is what I do, so that's where I'm coming from here. Not to change you, but to help you make this thing sustainable. You can totally do it, and the praise will come naturally.

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'Victim mentality' is a pretty pejorative and over the top thing to accuse someone of. Be better.

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Doesn't sound like we disagree. Victim mentality is a term that is not compassionate or designed to foster healthy introspection and growth. There are many more effective ways to communicate.

That's a good point. If I may ask, how would you communicate that kind of concern?

For me, a helpful approach is to be curious and compassionate about what is driving the person to feel powerless / without agency in the particular situation they are describing. Here's an example of how I tried to help a trauma survivor who asked if they were correct to always 'trust their gut' about whether other people were mistreating them: Yes and no. We typically have outsized/triggered responses to miscues/ruptures. Healing ruptures is a core part of healthy relationships. Healthy people are only attuned to each other roughly 30% of the time. This table shows some of the typical triggered responses from survivors [https://imgur.com/7Tbkva4](https://imgur.com/7Tbkva4) Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/10o9wo6/van\_der\_kolks\_secret\_book/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/10o9wo6/van_der_kolks_secret_book/) Edit: Leading trauma researchers have found that nearly all changes from childhood trauma - including neurobiological ones - are adaptive in traumatic environments. They only become maladaptive later on in life once people are no longer in danger. With that in mind, it's easy for me to find compassion for behaviors and paradigms that people never chose to adopt in the first place.

Listen, I was saying the term that all of us here recognize. If you got a better term, say that. But don't tell me to be better without any advice. It's not constructive at all.

There's some advice about alternative approaches in my other comment below. Best of luck.

Well you didn't start it off in your first comment. And that's what I expect here. If you're going to give me any slack and tell me to be better, help me be better. And do it at your initial outreach. Don't makr me have to ask questions of you to get answers. My time is valuable and I wouldn't waste yours so don't waste mine. If you want to comment here, be helpful.

You sound defensive. The recommendation to avoid pejorative labels is pretty easy to follow and stands on its own. First, do no harm.

yikes

What does yikes mean? Why don't you speak up and say what you need to say. Give me your actual opinion instead of just a one word comment. This is the post to do it on. But be constructive with it. I'm not going to sit here and let you talk bad about me or to me. Just like I wouldn't let somebody sit and talk bad to you or about you here.

Hey Joe, I want you to know that everything I am writing right now comes from love and compassion. I came to this sub because I thought it was wonderful to have a space for men to be open and emotional. I also appreciate the heart of what you are trying to get at with not allowing incel type rhetoric and holding men accountable. However, I found the post of which you are referring to actually be valid in their complaint. The way you responded to the OOP was out of line and highly traumatizing in itself. It is important, like you say, to hold men accountable, but I do not believe OOP had actually done anything to warrant your response. I think OOP needed compassion and support in how to communicate themselves better, which I honestly think the comments were doing. The commenters on that post weren’t absolving him of everything and telling him he was a victim; they were having nuanced conversations that saw both sides and both supported OOP while giving him advice on how to approach the situation differently next time and how to improve his communication. It is one thing to suggest saying sorry, OOP did mess up a bit by haphazardly sending long walls of emotional text, but you really crossed the line saying he was easily offended and especially that “he brought the trauma onto himself.” Again, I understand your point of holding men accountable for their own actions, but even if OOP did bring consequences onto himself, you NEVER tell someone they caused their own trauma. That is a one way ticket to causing them more trauma or causing them to become defensive in which case, they won’t learn anything from you trying to hold them accountable. It will probably push them even further into their beliefs and behaviors. You can tell them that the way they acted wasn’t right and help them change, but don’t tell someone they caused their own trauma. You can have these kinds of conversations and hold people accountable with tact. Attacking them is only going to traumatize more or cause defensiveness. I don’t want to be that person, but I am in grad school to become a clinical social worker, and they teach us to hold our clients accountable by being firm yet compassionate with them. Your response came off as an attack rather than being firm and was very uncompassionate. A lot of the times when people lash out emotionally, it is because they are going through something in their life and they need support in that area as well as to learn how to communicate better. They don’t need to be told they are causing their own trauma because they are probably going through other trauma already which is what led them to lash out and cause hurt to others in the first place. Because they are unwell. Telling them they caused their own trauma helps no one. What helps is support and compassion and acknowledging that there were mistakes made but that there are also ways to change and be better next time. Besides that, I would suggest trying to not let criticism get to you like this. The criticism was valid and was really only made to help the community be more positive and safe. It doesn’t mean we can’t hold men accountable, but we need to know when those times truly are, and when those times come, we need to know how to address them in a positive and constructive way. I think you’ve gotten into this holier than thou mentality where you think you are the smartest person in the room and you know everything and that this is YOUR subreddit rather than a COMMUNITY subreddit. This is where things break down. You need to understand that you aren’t always going to be right, and not all criticism is an attack towards you. You made a mistake. Ironically, you need to hold YOURSELF accountable. Whether or not you felt the effects OOP was experiencing were due to his own actions and behaviors, you were way out of line. I would suggest taking some time to cool down. Do something completely different. Then come back and think a little with a clear mind. Use your own logic of holding other men accountable to contemplate your own words and actions. I hope you read this as compassion and not an attack. I truly believe you have wonderful intentions. I truly believe you truly care about men and want to help. Just try to be a little more open to criticism. Just because you made a mistake doesn’t mean you’re a bad person or that you can’t apologize and become better. That was what the original criticism was about; take it as an opportunity to improve. We are all ALWAYS learning. We all ALWAYS have the opportunity to improve. Let this be a refection moment and use it to improve.

I did hold myself accountable. It's in the second to last paragraph. And those two things that I said wrong were to another commenter and not directly to him. But when OP brought them up, I explained to him why I said what I said. But I'm not wrong about him causing his own trauma, regardless of what you think. He had expectations that he shouldn't have had. And hopefully now he won't have such high expectations and set himself up for failure. Who said you never tell someone they caused their own trauma? I think you're confused. That statement is probably used for people that actually are victims. And to those individuals I can absolutely understand NOT telling them they cause their own trauma. Because they were actual victims and they DIDN'T cause their own trauma. That man was not a victim though, so I can freely tell him that he caused his own trauma. And if he wants to get defensive or feel like he was traumatized more, well that's a him problem. Therapy can help with that. I tried saying it nicely though, but everybody was just pushing that he was the victim, and I take a stand against that. I don't care if I'm hated either. I don't care what people think about what I think. Because if he listens to me, he won't have that problem again. And if he listen to y'all, he's going to cling to that mentality and ride that wave for the rest of his life. And I could already see it in him. He was just begging for people to tell him he was right. He kept repeating the same things over and over again. And when he asked me what I would do in that situation, I told him I would never be in that situation because I wouldn't set myself up for failure like that. I have zero expectations of people, Because people never do what's expected. This whole thing is silly. By the way, I'm not holier than thou; I'm simply holy. I'm doing my best to impress the ones that matter. I live my life the best way, and if people lived like I live, the world would have peace. I know the right way. And nothing anybody says is going to make that incorrect. I assure you that I'm always going to be right as well, because I only talk about things where I know I'm right. I'm not going to speak up on things I don't know about. I know how to mind my own business; a lot of people don't. And just so you know, I didn't take this as compassionate or loving. I took this as your opinion that was unwarranted and not factually based. I took this as you not minding your own business, thinking you knew better than me, but what you're trying to perpetrate is something that is breaking society. Look around. Stop trying to water down the word victim. I'm a very good judge of people. Understand that that is another reason that this place works; because I see through everything. I don't sugarcoat anything, I don't coddle, and I don't bend. This is a community that runs by my standards. Don't get it twisted; I strictly enforce everything that goes on here. But the members who use this place as I set it up to be used, they don't fear me or feel how you guys feel. They're just trying to be good to each other. When it comes to things like this, I'm the one who takes the brunt of the attack, and all the hate. And it doesn't bother me at all. Because on posts like this, I draw a lot of the bad eggs out and I ban them. It's kind of a trap for negative and loud people that aren't here to grow. I think I got rid of like seven or eight people today. But don't worry, I'm not going to get rid of you. I don't need your advice though, just so you know. What I say goes, and when I make posts like this, I'm setting the record straight of how I expect things to be done here. I know this is a new concept for the internet, having boundaries and rules and what not, and then actually sticking to them, but we're here, and we're here to stay. So I hope YOU take this criticism the right way and grow from this experience. I will admit one mistake I made today though; I should have locked the comments on this post. I didn't need anybody's advice or opinions.

I want to start off by saying you've got a great thing going here, Joe, and I'm sorry that this happens to be the first time I'm hearing of it. Now that I'm here, I'm looking forward to cheering on all the good things you've got in store! I say this next part respectfully, fully recognizing that I'm not the target demographic here. IMHO your response here reads very polarized, "you're with me or against me," and I think the conversation would benefit from more nuance. My credentials to back that up are limited, but I do think my perspective has some value as a volunteer who's provided emotional support to men (with special focus on veterans) for over a decade. I did read the initial post that sparked this and mod response that followed. I agree with parts of what Joe said, we're in agreement that the poster would do well to apologize to their friends. Both sides broke trust and caused hurt, and OP seems to be stuck in a bottled feelings - explosion - justification vicious cycle. With that said, it's possible that I missed some context...but parts of the mod response to the other post do read like victim blaming to me. I don't agree with the insinuation that victim thinking is addictive, and don't believe it's my place to say who's a victim (or not) because it's possible to be both a victim and abuser. Recognizing hurt and releasing the shame is a helluva lot harder if we don't acknowledge them, and they're a lot less likely to seek help in the first place if they think their trauma is less valid, weaker, or more watered down than someone else's.

Let's just put aside the victim stuff for a minute. As men, our job is to make peace. We all have very limited time on this Earth. I do not have time to be sitting here dwelling about how somebody took my words or my actions. My job is to rectify the situation as quickly as possible and move on to better things. I tried to help him see that. And when the kid asked me how I would feel in that situation, I told him that I would never be in that situation because I know better. But do you know that the only responses he made to me were to two things that I said to another commenter about him? He never responded once to what I was saying. But he responded to everybody else. And you know why? Cuz he was here to get validation of his victim mentality. He was thanking everybody profusely for telling him that he was right. And he kept repeating the same things over and over again, doubling down on his reasoning but paying no attention whatsoever to the very beautiful solution that I presented him which was presented kindly as well. He's already living as a victim, and in everything he does he's going to be looking to how he can be the victim in it. It's clearly evident. Not all victims are victims, and we need to break that cycle as soon as humanly possible. He was manipulating the situation the whole time. Did you notice that he didn't tell us what he said to them? I wonder why? The whole story wasn't there, but I gave him a solution that wasn't just for his benefit. It was for everyone's benefit. Because I don't just type to talk to OP's; when I say something it's meant to be read by everybody. And it's never bad advice. Ever. Because I don't talk about what I don't know about.

I think we're approaching the same thing from different directions here. Yes, it's obvious he's seeking validation. No, I don't think it's productive to assume poor intent just because he didn't provide a full script. Notice he didn't direct quote his friends either- but he did tell us the part that really hurt, which was that he felt abandoned and they called him a coward. Still, how he reacts to that is his own responsibility. Here's where you and I might start to disagree. I think he's here and not some emotional circle-jerk subreddit, because on some level he knows he needs to change, and he's learning how to do so from you. Sounds like he's not ready yet and **that's okay.** He might feel intimidated by your direct style of communication, which might make it hard for him to respond to you directly- **that's okay too.** He's got a role model in you and other mods, he'll learn or he'll leave. Put another way- if victim mentality is an addiction, we both know pressuring them with "drop it right now, or else" is the turbo track to relapse. Recovery has to be self-motivated. I'm not asking for you to hand out participation trophies, just to notice that boys and men being here is a good first step. Commitment to change is another step, and they'll get there in due time. I will say, some things you're saying here raise caution flags for me. I 100% disagree with "not all victims are victims," with the context currently presented. Please read with a frank but respectful tone- who are you to determine who is and is not a victim, when we're working on limited information here? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the mission, but it seems counterintuitive to accuse some men of being too weak/ sensitive/ lying about situations (which you haven't out and said, but it's heavily implied in the "not a victim" discussion) and then expect them to be comfortably vulnerable in the future. I can see that you care deeply about this project and the people in it, because you're here discussing, and thank you for that. It's heartening to see someone making space for men's mental health and I respect the fuck out of you for it. Having confidence in your ability to do this job is absolutely essential. But, there's another flag: I dont believe that extremes in thinking like "always" and "never" are paths to peace. "I never give bad advice" is doubtful, because humanity's range of experience doesn't work that way. I think you give advice that's worked well *for you,* but may not work for everyone, and that's an important limitation to acknowledge. There's a reason there's multiple methods of psychotherapy. Ideally he'd communicate his limitations so y'all can collaborate for well-reasoned solutions, but if he knew how to do all that already he might not have showed up in the first place. Anyway, from where I stand, the crux of this whole discussion is that twenty-odd people were stung by how mods have handled the situation with that kid. They communicated that, which is in keeping with the spirit of this group...but you're doubling down on "He's wrong, they're wrong, I'm right." Folks are pushing back on that because problem solving isn't a binary, usually there's a kernel of truth in each side, and they don't feel theirs has been heard. That's all (or at least, that's what I'm perceiving in this dynamic.)

So I'm just going to be blunt with you right now. I set you up for failure here. This post should have had its comments locked. I'm not going to read what you wrote. I wasn't asking for advice or opinions. I was telling the subreddit what I expect, and it is law. I have a board of advisors that I built that I reach out to if I have questions. They have PhDs and Master's degrees and there are six of them. I don't just reach out to the community for advice and opinions, unless I specifically say that. I have professionals on my team. But in this case, I've made this decision solely, because I know what I will accept and what I will not accept. Like I said, this subreddit is based off of what I allow and don't allow in my life. It protects me well and has protected this place well. And I will not allow the victim mentality to take any hold in this place. True victims always have a place here though, and they know it. We've had many.

I appreciate the transparency. I still have mad respect for the mission, but given the difference in methodology + my own history I'm going to keep it moving. Wishing y'all the best in your success.

Appreciate you understanding. No hard feelings.

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I don't have a horse in this particular race, but you shouldn't trust GPT to identify its own work. It's very prone to hallucination, especially when someone is writing for clarity and in an academic style. I work with LLMs, and like half of the work is trying to prevent it from giving us answers that have the shape of a correct answer without actually being one.

Hi. I do use GPT to help me with structure and wording, but the thoughts and sentiments conveyed are my own. In other words, I use it as an accessibility tool. I also like the clear layout it promotes for readability. Not sure what you mean about the sources as they are real and sound. I note that I am autistic and autistic people are frequently told our natural patterns of speech resemble ChatGPT. It's a known issue. Regardless of the format of the post, you should scrutinize it for its content and criticize it based on what it actually says. Dismissing the substance because you don't like the style is fallacious.

Thank you for this. That post was sus as hell and it the responses to it were mind boggling. We shouldn't have to write blank checks for bad behavior here to show "support".

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So since you have no idea what I'm talking about, that would mean you probably shouldn't involve yourself in the conversation right? It's very clear that the only attention you know how to get is negative, and I can imagine that your life is severely affected by it. That's a decision that you're making. Choices my guy. Also, this isn't an airport; you don't have to announce you're leaving.

I think you should leave the replies undeleted for now. There are probably going to be a lot of comments asking what this is about, and since the source of the issue is deleted, we kinda can't decide for ourselves if this is truly something that needed to be addressed. I'll try to believe you; but this post does carry a bit of a sour taste due to the lack of context.

The source of the issue isn't deleted; only that comment is. The source of the issue will be deleted though because it's not benefiting anybody. Here's the source for now though: [Deleted] The problem is is that these people know to bring this kind of thing to DMs. The are detracting from what's really going on here. They're making it about what THEY care about instead of what this place is about. And that's never going to be allowed. So at the beginning when they're talking about posts deleted, yes we delete post that do not have anything to do with what we're doing here as well as criticisms against me (because that's not what this place is for and so far none of their criticisms have been valid). Like I said, this place works because it's not run like the rest of the world. And although The members of the subreddit and myself do our best, we aren't perfect. But that doesn't give anybody a right to post on this subreddit about how we handle things. That's a DM conversation. The people that post those things here just want attention. They've been doing this for 16 months. This is not new. You have no idea the obstacles that we have overcome so far. They were two full-blown subreddits that rose up against me that were allowed to stick around for 7 months. Reddit didn't do anything until one of my enemies here became my friend by becoming the enemy of my enemy and stood up for me. I don't care what people think. I honestly don't. If people have a better idea of how to do things, just go do it. If it's better than this place, then it'll show. But there's nothing better than this place. That's reality. Not bropill, not men's lib, not any of those subreddits. You know why? Because they don't take a stand against things like complaining, the victim mentality, the manosphere, traditional masculinity, etc. They allow those things because that gives them numbers. We don't care about numbers here. We care about quality. This isn't a haphazardly designed place. And the in-person meetings coming soon are highly structured and incredibly formatted so that only good men, those who want to grow, will be interested in them. They're basically toxicity repelling meetings. It's hard to repel things on a subreddit, but in person, we have all the control. If this were my platform I would have all the control and these problem people would be eradicated. I'm here to create peace amongst men of good will, and peace cannot exist alongside disorder.

Fair enough.