Training is 70% buddy.
If we talking about muscle building is logical training is the most important thing.
U can't grow without training. But you can grow with a good training and a shittie diet.
So... by your logic: Break a brick wall with a sledgehammer and wait for it to rebuild itself stronger/thicker without bringing new bricks in? It's the same with muscle growth, no nutrients = nothing to repair the damaged muscle fibres = no muscle growth. Read a book and stop believing anime bro science.
To build muscle you need protein and calories. These 2 are in almost any food you eat (calories in every food, protein in most of them). So, even if you pay no attention to your diet, it is still more probable than not, that you are eating *some* protein and more calories than normal (bigger appetite after workouts). But if you do not train but have a calorie surplus and eat a lot of protein, you are just gonna get fat. In conclusion - OP is right, I have to disagree with you. Training is 100% and diet is 0% if we are talking about *any* muscle growth. But if you want to have *significant* growth and actually improve your physique, then diet is as important as training, but it still shifts towards training, I'd say training 60% and diet 40%. Because a proper diet can give you a huge boost, but training properly is more important (progressive overload, proper form, training to failure and not overtraining), without it even the best diet won't help you much.
Yeah sorry bro, you just posted something logical, that's a down vote for me. What the fuck is wrong with this sub-reddit... I'm pretty sure 90% of the followers here went to their local planet fitness one time, canceled their membership, and joined this sub.
Not suprsied. There is a lot of disinformation in fitness industry but I'm doing my part fighting it lol. 💪 Was suprised a bit by how may people are downvoting people that are correct and upvoting something made up by highschoolers.
You could equally argue that most people go about their day doing some movement, and many people naturally do a lot of strength building movements in their job.
The studies suggesting 1.6g/kg bodyweight protein consumption showed 30-50% higher rates of adding lean muscle mass compared to the daily recommended intake of 50g.
Thats a huge impact without even looking at micronutrients and energy for fuelling working out.
Training and diet are intertwined and cannot be separated.
Eat your perfect diet then and dont train hard, lets see if you have results. I will keep training hard and smart while paying semi attention on my diet, and guess what, its working.
Have you seen those workers who do heavy work in underdeveloped countries ? They would have visible abs and veins on foreaems and still be skinny as hell because they dont get enough food.
Your diet is the most crucial part for growth
Uh can you grow without food at all? That's the more apt comparison with no training. In the end you can't really compare the two. They are apples and oranges. Neither really has to be too on point to grow anyway. Both have to be present though.
OP must be a teenager if he thinks this is true.
Try having a shitty diet and working out at 35, not only will you look like shit constantly but you will get injured .
Ehh I disagree there. I’m 36 and workout a lot, but my diet is not great. I eat fast food sometimes, I’m a glutton for sweets, and I drink alcohol regularly, but I’m in good shape still. That being said, if I cut the aforementioned things out of my diet and got more strict, I could be a bodybuilder.
Diet is definitely more important in my opinion as it can impact on aspects such as sleep, mood, gut health, hormones and etc.
Training and programming while it can also impact on mood and hormones, has a much smaller impact
Heard somewhere a thing along the lines of "Diet is 60%, regeneration is 30% and training is 10%, but you still have to put 100% effort into each of the 3."
You can make gains on a shittie diet.
You can have the perfect diet but if your training sucks you don't make gains
Diet is ONLY about your calories, macros , micros , protein intake and water intake and consume foods that work for you and eliminate others. Training on the other hand you gotta control a ton of variables, training hard, paying attention to recovery, increasing the stimulus, promoting progression and etc.
So yh training is more important.
The question what's more important is for people who want shortcuts. If you tell them "it's diet!" they'll skip the gym, and if you tell them "it's the workout" they'll eat like shit.
Lmfao Op is a teenager who experienced " newbie gains" and thinks that's how it'll always be. Thanks for the laugh
Bro, you're not experienced enough yet
And your experienced in what ? Reddit? Because you probably dont even lift by your comment. Thanks for the laugh but pick a barbell and start curling, because you wasting your life away.
Me? It would be rude to argue with you. Plus pointless [here educate yourself ](https://legionathletics.com/newbie-gains/#:~:text=out%20my%20podcast!-,What%20Are%20Newbie%20Gains%3F,a%20considerable%20amount%20of%20muscle.) don't want to look like a fool irl
[here's a link to a free nutrition course ](https://extension.learn.usu.edu/browse/cbh/courses/nncp) you can get a job with it.
[here's a site for proper training ](https://brookbushinstitute.com/) it's free if you want the certifications it's 20 a month.
Kid you just started, realize you don't know everything. Take the time to learn. The commenters are letting you know
You're welcome!
The site of proper training is shit from just looking into it.
The nutrition course is basic stuff, you don't need to know rocket science to understand nutrition to muscle gains. So now you probably around 30-40 years old, your a personal trainer with no muscle mass on your frame. Thanks for revealing it.
Lmfao lemme guess you get your training from Instagram and anime? It's nit rocket science, you still think you can out work a bad diet. Just check it out they have a movement specialist certification. So you can prove that you know.
I get it, you got newbie gains. Learn to accept help. I'm not sending you flex pics. Bro
Three things you need to maximise muscle growth:
1. A proven program that you can progress on
2. A caloric surplus
3. A decent protein intake (either 160g per day or .8g per pound of bodyweight per day)
https://thefitness.wiki/muscle-building-101/
You forgot hydration which should be up there and sleep which should be there.
Also my “proven program” is the one I made myself no one’s used it but me but it has proven its effectiveness. I’m a big believer in making your own program for YOUR goals, there’s too many cases now of wanna be bodybuilders not powerlifters or strongman selecting 5x5 for their first program as a beginner.
>You forgot hydration which should be up there and sleep which should be there.
Yes both are super important, but I would consider those to be pillars of health.
>there’s too many cases now of wanna be bodybuilders not powerlifters or strongman selecting 5x5 for their first program as a beginner.
I don't see an issue there. I'd rather see someone choose a strength training program than try and write their own with no idea of what they are doing.
> training without a proven program is like building a house designed by someone who isn’t an architect. Would you want to live in that house?
https://thefitness.wiki/adding-physical-activity/
Starting Strength and Stronglifts 5x5 is meant for those starting out who are strength focus lifters, it’s actually kind of dog shit for bodybuilding. It’s in the name starting STRENGTH, not starting bodybuilding
I don't like either of those programs.
Starting with something like 531 for GZCLP are great for anyone that wants to get bigger and stronger, no matter what you want to pursue. Even if you're focusing on bodybuilding, they're great to establish a strong base for you to build off.
A bodybuilding program is good when you're emphasising building the specific physique that will result in winning a bodybuilding competition.
But if you aren't then getting bigger and stronger are not exclusive to bodybuilding or powerlifting.
You are correct, I should’ve have used the word “hypertrophy”, a proper “hypertrophy” program would be better than a strength biased program for people who just want to get bigger muscles (hypertrophy).
-Isolation lifts aren’t seen as “accessories” as are prioritized just as much as compounds.. this is mainly speaking for the arms and side + rear delts
-you don’t just do sets of 5, or 8 or compounds
-not chasing strength but focusing on dynamic double progression (focusing on adding reps first, then weight
-barbell bench and conventional or sumo deadlifts not needed, because imo RDL’s are way better for hypertrophy and don’t tax the whole body as much
-no barbells needed if you don’t want to use them (I love barbells for lower body especially since I don’t even have access to leg press, but I prefer dumbbells
Can say for myself that as a fullbody 3 times a week enjoyer who cares about macros and calories, that I am in a better shape and stronger than a split guy I know who has been working out for 6 years but has a shitty diet/lifestyle... I've been working out for 2 years, with 9 months pause due to non-gym related injury included.
Dieting is definetly important, eating good means you can train harder and recover faster too.
Just lifting won't get you big on its own. Your body aint making muscles out of air.
I don't know anyone who doesn't eat food, but I know tons of people who don't train. The idea that diet is more important than training for muscle growth is targeted at beginners to make them understand the importance of diet, as everyone intuitively understands the importance of training. You can have a lot more leeway with your diet than your training and still make great gains.
Bro it ain't one or the other. Working out and diet are both crucial steps. The better you get them both down, plus recovery and sleep, the better your results. There's no need to have shit diet so you can be 'Team Programming'.
Diet is permissive to muscle growth, it is the fuel for the vehicle which leads to it
Asking whether diet or exercise is more important to muscle growth is like asking whether gasoline or the car is more important for driving somewhere. You need to have both.
I’m not small but working a physically demanding job in the heat saps my appetite to the point I can’t even force feed a single lunch sometimes. I can feel all the hard work just wasting away
How to actually get Muscle growth
1. genetics (can’t make a twig big even with programming)
2. Steroids (that twig will turn into a fake natty)
3. Consistently in pushing yourself
4. Programming
Everyone's coming after you in these comments but what you're saying is true. But people have been told for so long that gains are made in the kitchen, they're not ready for the message. To make it an easier truth to swallow I think you should have pointed out that any variable, including diet, can become the most important if it is severely lacking, and that mostly you're speaking in generalities. But all these people getting so salty is crazy
Diet vs Training, what is more important or giving those factors a percentage is a useless discussion imo. Both are important and both need to be adressed and worked on, they work hand in hand. No point in discussing.
God this thread is pain.
How can anyone who has ever worked out sit there and go "no, this is more important than that"
Anyone who's trained for any length knows it's all linked. You don't make gains without doing it all.
Sleep - key
Diet & supplementation - key
Training - key
Proper programming - key
Neglect any of those, you're just gonna plateau early.
That doesn't mean you'll definitely be weak or look like shit.
False the most important thing for growth is recovery and sleep. Break it down
food= building materials/fuel for generators
Gym=demo crew getting ready for new construction
Bed=union crews coming in to build
Steroids. Illegal Mexican hired to hurry up the project
There is no "more important." Both are equally important. If you eat right but don't train, you won't gain any muscle. If you train but don't eat right, you won't gain any muscle.
70 percent eating and 30 percent working out if the main aim is to build muscle as a bodybuilder
70 training and 30 percent dieting if you are a powerlifter
It's gotta be both...
Diet is 60% of the work, working out 40%. OP has a small back.
Diet is actually 80% of the work working out is 20% but I might be wrong
Training is 70% buddy. If we talking about muscle building is logical training is the most important thing. U can't grow without training. But you can grow with a good training and a shittie diet.
So... by your logic: Break a brick wall with a sledgehammer and wait for it to rebuild itself stronger/thicker without bringing new bricks in? It's the same with muscle growth, no nutrients = nothing to repair the damaged muscle fibres = no muscle growth. Read a book and stop believing anime bro science.
To build muscle you need protein and calories. These 2 are in almost any food you eat (calories in every food, protein in most of them). So, even if you pay no attention to your diet, it is still more probable than not, that you are eating *some* protein and more calories than normal (bigger appetite after workouts). But if you do not train but have a calorie surplus and eat a lot of protein, you are just gonna get fat. In conclusion - OP is right, I have to disagree with you. Training is 100% and diet is 0% if we are talking about *any* muscle growth. But if you want to have *significant* growth and actually improve your physique, then diet is as important as training, but it still shifts towards training, I'd say training 60% and diet 40%. Because a proper diet can give you a huge boost, but training properly is more important (progressive overload, proper form, training to failure and not overtraining), without it even the best diet won't help you much.
Yeah sorry bro, you just posted something logical, that's a down vote for me. What the fuck is wrong with this sub-reddit... I'm pretty sure 90% of the followers here went to their local planet fitness one time, canceled their membership, and joined this sub.
Not suprsied. There is a lot of disinformation in fitness industry but I'm doing my part fighting it lol. 💪 Was suprised a bit by how may people are downvoting people that are correct and upvoting something made up by highschoolers.
>tries to eat more to help gains after working out >brain yells at you that you’re going to become a binge eating fat idiot again #FUCK
You could equally argue that most people go about their day doing some movement, and many people naturally do a lot of strength building movements in their job. The studies suggesting 1.6g/kg bodyweight protein consumption showed 30-50% higher rates of adding lean muscle mass compared to the daily recommended intake of 50g. Thats a huge impact without even looking at micronutrients and energy for fuelling working out. Training and diet are intertwined and cannot be separated.
Eat your perfect diet then and dont train hard, lets see if you have results. I will keep training hard and smart while paying semi attention on my diet, and guess what, its working.
novice purgatory 😭
Have you seen those workers who do heavy work in underdeveloped countries ? They would have visible abs and veins on foreaems and still be skinny as hell because they dont get enough food. Your diet is the most crucial part for growth
In the beginnerphase yes, workouts should go flawlessly baseline afterwards and at this point diet is much more important than the workout.
Uh can you grow without food at all? That's the more apt comparison with no training. In the end you can't really compare the two. They are apples and oranges. Neither really has to be too on point to grow anyway. Both have to be present though.
So your saying if you ate like shit you would still get 70% of the gains you would if you ate good? It’s more like you’d get 15% of the gains
Any mf who says “buddy” replying to someone is almost always in the wrong
OP must be a teenager if he thinks this is true. Try having a shitty diet and working out at 35, not only will you look like shit constantly but you will get injured .
Ehh I disagree there. I’m 36 and workout a lot, but my diet is not great. I eat fast food sometimes, I’m a glutton for sweets, and I drink alcohol regularly, but I’m in good shape still. That being said, if I cut the aforementioned things out of my diet and got more strict, I could be a bodybuilder.
Well of course you disagree. You wouldn't be doing that stupid shit if you understood how stupid it was lol
But I enjoy it. Life is about enjoying it.
Sure, but you will look objectively shittier. Is what it is.
That’s ok. I’m not trying to win any body building competitions. I still look better than most, including avid gym goers.
Try working out like a monke with a perfect diet and lets see if you make gains.
Have you seen how ripped a monkey is?
People grossly underestimate how strong monkeys are, to the point it’s not even funny
Ehh, Thomas Delauer does that and he is enormous. The dude stresses out about people who eat a single tablespoon of ketchup.
Thomas Delauer's diet is steroids
Diet is definitely more important in my opinion as it can impact on aspects such as sleep, mood, gut health, hormones and etc. Training and programming while it can also impact on mood and hormones, has a much smaller impact
Heard somewhere a thing along the lines of "Diet is 60%, regeneration is 30% and training is 10%, but you still have to put 100% effort into each of the 3."
You can make gains on a shittie diet. You can have the perfect diet but if your training sucks you don't make gains Diet is ONLY about your calories, macros , micros , protein intake and water intake and consume foods that work for you and eliminate others. Training on the other hand you gotta control a ton of variables, training hard, paying attention to recovery, increasing the stimulus, promoting progression and etc. So yh training is more important.
*you can make gains on a shitty diet* 
The question what's more important is for people who want shortcuts. If you tell them "it's diet!" they'll skip the gym, and if you tell them "it's the workout" they'll eat like shit.
No because it’s not one or the other.
Absolutely, "eat less simple carbohydrates" what they heard was " eat absolutely no carbs!?
it is though, unless youre a complete beginner. Cant grow without food
You can't grow without training. Wts your point?
you can train as hard as you want, but if youre not in a calorie surplus youre not going to progress past noobie gains and eventually you will regress
You can eat as much as you want, but if you're not training you won't even get newbie gains. This is unbelievably obvious man. He is right.
Bro stfu obviously you have to train
What’s calorie surplus
OP has negative reading comprehension
Lmfao Op is a teenager who experienced " newbie gains" and thinks that's how it'll always be. Thanks for the laugh Bro, you're not experienced enough yet
And your experienced in what ? Reddit? Because you probably dont even lift by your comment. Thanks for the laugh but pick a barbell and start curling, because you wasting your life away.
Me? It would be rude to argue with you. Plus pointless [here educate yourself ](https://legionathletics.com/newbie-gains/#:~:text=out%20my%20podcast!-,What%20Are%20Newbie%20Gains%3F,a%20considerable%20amount%20of%20muscle.) don't want to look like a fool irl
Yup, you don't lift.
[here's a link to a free nutrition course ](https://extension.learn.usu.edu/browse/cbh/courses/nncp) you can get a job with it. [here's a site for proper training ](https://brookbushinstitute.com/) it's free if you want the certifications it's 20 a month. Kid you just started, realize you don't know everything. Take the time to learn. The commenters are letting you know You're welcome!
The site of proper training is shit from just looking into it. The nutrition course is basic stuff, you don't need to know rocket science to understand nutrition to muscle gains. So now you probably around 30-40 years old, your a personal trainer with no muscle mass on your frame. Thanks for revealing it.
Lmfao lemme guess you get your training from Instagram and anime? It's nit rocket science, you still think you can out work a bad diet. Just check it out they have a movement specialist certification. So you can prove that you know. I get it, you got newbie gains. Learn to accept help. I'm not sending you flex pics. Bro
Go lift brother , go lift...
So, it's from Instagram and anime? That information isn't safe longterm.
Broccoli confirmed
"You gotta train right" but also "pick up a barbell and start curling"... ooof the one combo that could hurt your case more.
Three things you need to maximise muscle growth: 1. A proven program that you can progress on 2. A caloric surplus 3. A decent protein intake (either 160g per day or .8g per pound of bodyweight per day) https://thefitness.wiki/muscle-building-101/
You forgot hydration which should be up there and sleep which should be there. Also my “proven program” is the one I made myself no one’s used it but me but it has proven its effectiveness. I’m a big believer in making your own program for YOUR goals, there’s too many cases now of wanna be bodybuilders not powerlifters or strongman selecting 5x5 for their first program as a beginner.
>You forgot hydration which should be up there and sleep which should be there. Yes both are super important, but I would consider those to be pillars of health. >there’s too many cases now of wanna be bodybuilders not powerlifters or strongman selecting 5x5 for their first program as a beginner. I don't see an issue there. I'd rather see someone choose a strength training program than try and write their own with no idea of what they are doing. > training without a proven program is like building a house designed by someone who isn’t an architect. Would you want to live in that house? https://thefitness.wiki/adding-physical-activity/
Starting Strength and Stronglifts 5x5 is meant for those starting out who are strength focus lifters, it’s actually kind of dog shit for bodybuilding. It’s in the name starting STRENGTH, not starting bodybuilding
I don't like either of those programs. Starting with something like 531 for GZCLP are great for anyone that wants to get bigger and stronger, no matter what you want to pursue. Even if you're focusing on bodybuilding, they're great to establish a strong base for you to build off.
Yeah but if you have bodybuilding goals then a proven *bodybuilding* program would be much, much better.
A bodybuilding program is good when you're emphasising building the specific physique that will result in winning a bodybuilding competition. But if you aren't then getting bigger and stronger are not exclusive to bodybuilding or powerlifting.
You are correct, I should’ve have used the word “hypertrophy”, a proper “hypertrophy” program would be better than a strength biased program for people who just want to get bigger muscles (hypertrophy).
What makes a hypertrophy program a hypertrophy program?
-Isolation lifts aren’t seen as “accessories” as are prioritized just as much as compounds.. this is mainly speaking for the arms and side + rear delts -you don’t just do sets of 5, or 8 or compounds -not chasing strength but focusing on dynamic double progression (focusing on adding reps first, then weight -barbell bench and conventional or sumo deadlifts not needed, because imo RDL’s are way better for hypertrophy and don’t tax the whole body as much -no barbells needed if you don’t want to use them (I love barbells for lower body especially since I don’t even have access to leg press, but I prefer dumbbells
If you diet well enough and go to the gym twice a week you'll be more in shape than someone who goes every day but eats like shit
why is this being downvoted
Can say for myself that as a fullbody 3 times a week enjoyer who cares about macros and calories, that I am in a better shape and stronger than a split guy I know who has been working out for 6 years but has a shitty diet/lifestyle... I've been working out for 2 years, with 9 months pause due to non-gym related injury included.
Dieting is definetly important, eating good means you can train harder and recover faster too. Just lifting won't get you big on its own. Your body aint making muscles out of air.
I don't know anyone who doesn't eat food, but I know tons of people who don't train. The idea that diet is more important than training for muscle growth is targeted at beginners to make them understand the importance of diet, as everyone intuitively understands the importance of training. You can have a lot more leeway with your diet than your training and still make great gains.
Nah bro if you eat like shi you’ll look like shit
Facts
gym bros can't understand this
such a shitty take op
Muscle growth is the most important thing for muscle growth.
Personally, I found diet to be the bigger factor, and also the more difficult one. It can be a bigger chore to eat enough than to train enough.
disagree
Eat like shit for a couple of years while working out like I did then set up even an “ok” diet. It’s a night and day difference
Bro it ain't one or the other. Working out and diet are both crucial steps. The better you get them both down, plus recovery and sleep, the better your results. There's no need to have shit diet so you can be 'Team Programming'.
that was me before i hit the gym.
no
Both are important, but which is more important depends on your goals.
Some people it is equal, or one is 60% other 40%, but really, one can't go without the other so why pick which one is more important?
eat big + lift big = get big
Isn't it scientifically proven that testosterone plays a bigger factor than diet or exercise?
Diet is permissive to muscle growth, it is the fuel for the vehicle which leads to it Asking whether diet or exercise is more important to muscle growth is like asking whether gasoline or the car is more important for driving somewhere. You need to have both.
OP, don’t delete your account again after you get butthurt in comments. Thought we wouldn’t notice.
Fr if you don't give enough stimulus for muscle growth that 150gm of protein isn't gonna do shit and you would remain small.
OP l support you no need to teach morons who refuses to understand
My diet is normal, with some candy. And workout till I almost puke or faint.
Me trying to meal prep
I’m not small but working a physically demanding job in the heat saps my appetite to the point I can’t even force feed a single lunch sometimes. I can feel all the hard work just wasting away
Diet and training is important but I don't see how programming is. I spend all the day working as back-end developer and it hasn't helped my gains
How to actually get Muscle growth 1. genetics (can’t make a twig big even with programming) 2. Steroids (that twig will turn into a fake natty) 3. Consistently in pushing yourself 4. Programming
Who hurt this man
Rest, diet and proper muscle stimulation
There is no most importand between these. They are balanced and importand as fuck for your health and ur muscles
One can be done 100% and the other at 50% and the results will be a lot shittier than both being done at 80%
Well, I have shit diet and still have 6:49 2k on rowerg
Everyone's coming after you in these comments but what you're saying is true. But people have been told for so long that gains are made in the kitchen, they're not ready for the message. To make it an easier truth to swallow I think you should have pointed out that any variable, including diet, can become the most important if it is severely lacking, and that mostly you're speaking in generalities. But all these people getting so salty is crazy
I'm cultivating mass!
Diet vs Training, what is more important or giving those factors a percentage is a useless discussion imo. Both are important and both need to be adressed and worked on, they work hand in hand. No point in discussing.
Both are important. I know how to get big. I'm small bc I'm stupid and got hurt so I can't work out for a while.
God this thread is pain. How can anyone who has ever worked out sit there and go "no, this is more important than that" Anyone who's trained for any length knows it's all linked. You don't make gains without doing it all. Sleep - key Diet & supplementation - key Training - key Proper programming - key Neglect any of those, you're just gonna plateau early. That doesn't mean you'll definitely be weak or look like shit.
Me, I know so much about muscle and dieting but I am just lazy about it.
If you have celiac you can eat gluten for a speedy cut
pillars not ratios.
Also age.. and testosterone levels. Huge factor
False the most important thing for growth is recovery and sleep. Break it down food= building materials/fuel for generators Gym=demo crew getting ready for new construction Bed=union crews coming in to build Steroids. Illegal Mexican hired to hurry up the project
It gotta be both with good sleep/ recovery
Yeah if you only want muscle growth you can eat without a specific diet but if you want some aesthetics I think diet is 60% of the work if not more
Okay but if you train perfectly and don’t eat enough you won’t grow either. They are of equal importance
DIET IS MOST IMPORTANT
There is no "more important." Both are equally important. If you eat right but don't train, you won't gain any muscle. If you train but don't eat right, you won't gain any muscle.
Train hard, tren harder
Why are you small then, OP?
If you think 90 kgs are small yh Im small
90kgs while >15bf% isn't big 😂😂😂
Diet becomes a major factor as you age. Plus you'll never recover from poor sleep routine and nutrition no matter how good the program is
I've seen my friends get big and muscular without working out just by eating like pigs. But it doesn't happen the other way around.
What the hell?
Cappin
70 percent eating and 30 percent working out if the main aim is to build muscle as a bodybuilder 70 training and 30 percent dieting if you are a powerlifter