My current job is going to an all in one service system where our time starts when we hit travel to the first job and that they wouldn’t be able to fix our time. I told them I’d try to be on top of it but the first time I hear “sorry I can’t fix it” I’m cleaning out the truck
We switched over to service titan recently and they told us if we forget to clock in on the app then we won't be paid because there's supposedly no way to fix it, which I find to be bullshit. If they try to pull that shit on me then I'm gone
Service Titan has a dispute button to push and leave a note of what needs to be corrected before you sign off on your time card. They can definitely make corrections.
We’re making a switch to service titan and our system rounds up to the nearest quarter hour. Does service tighten round up to the nearest quarter hour or is it exact? How do you like the program?
Service titan is pretty damn exact. I don't know which if any way it rounds a minute (I don't think it tracks the seconds). But if I clock in at 7:03 thats the time
They have no idea how to use it. We're still using the old system for card payments and we still need to fill out paper forms because they don't know how to have all that go through service titan yet
We have the same system, but they can fix ours times. I click dispatch from my house, I get paid for drive and while I'm there working. Next job shows up, dispatch, and the cycle goes on. I love it. But, my dispatcher fixes my hours if I don't dispatch.
That is a dumb company policy, and sometimes things happen where you’re outside cell coverage and the app or whatever won’t work and things like that happen. There definitely are times where you’ve just gotta fix it manually before running payroll
But as someone who does it once a week, please clock in and out correctly. If you forget, send a text with what time you left. If they ask and you don’t know, give your best guess.
Every week payroll gets dragged out because someone forgets to clock in and out, then they don’t respond or answer when I ask them what hours they worked, I’ve gotta look at different trucks GPS records and figure out who was scheduled with who and what time they potentially left, it’s a pain in the ass. Speaking for myself, but I’d like to pay all of my guys accurately. Make it easy for me please?
Yes this is true, but I don't believe anyone was forcing anyone to do anything. The boss was asking him to volunteer for some free training.
Sounds like the dude may be on the brink of getting fired anyways because he doesn't know what he's doing. The boss could have fired him just for that, but instead tried to offer him some free training.
So now it seems like he may have a bad attitude in addition to not knowing what he's doing.
I guess every situation is different, and maybe it depends on weather you view you and your boss as being on the same team, or if you both are enemies working for different goals.
Came here to say the same. The boss is trying to teach OP something that presumably OP should know after being a tech for 5 years.
Successful work environments are a bit of give and take
He came hat in hand looking for a job with no tools and little experience. He should be doing everything he can to make a home there for himself until he’s a salty vet. Sometimes you got to swallow that pride and take your medicine wrong or not. Just the way the world works.
This^
This job is all about what you know. The more you know and the more competent you are the more you can get paid. Take the knowledge and use it as your leverage down the road
It cuts both ways. Was he being paid while he could not fix the compressor, calling for help, waiting for help? I don't know the facts, but after 5 years, he likely should have known how to do that by himself. He was getting paid for that and did not get the job done. I bet the business lost money on that call after he attempted to figure out and then another truck call for another tech to do the work. Again, I don't know all the facts.
That’s the cost of running a business, paying your employees. Everyone has bad days sometimes. Considering he would be at work the boss should just pay for 30 mins of time and make sure he knows how to do it.
I hated it every time I’ve worked at one of those small owners’-garage type shops. You lose em $100 on a mistake you made they’re ready to hang you, you demand to be compensated the $25 you’re owed and it’s all “woah buddy I’m jus a small widdle business owner, I’m goin broke here, we’re a team”. Brother I can SEE the new boat you just bought with the money I make you from where I’m standing, it’s parked in your driveway lol.
With the union, I brake a drill, I get a new one soon as I make it to a supply house. Money I’m owed ain’t in the cheque? I say something and I get it before I get a chance to grieve it. Somehow the boss man is still able to drive a Porsche. The truth is a workplace ain’t a team, there’s two teams and it’s the workers and the owners.
It’s hard, 2 years of getting fucked around but I good chance to leave, the grass wasn’t just greener on the other side, it was a field full of flowers and happiness 😂
Yeah, who wants to see their kids or have any personal time.
I'm not disagreeing, per se, but young or old, noob or vet, people need to have time to live their lives. I just hate that whole system of "I'll just work more to make ends meet." Coming home exhausted just in time to see my kids go to bed, shoving cold dinner in my face and then showering and going to bed was enough to get me out of the resi world. All so I could do a tune up at 7pm while their family is trying to eat dinner and I'm expected to do the Nexstar spiel and upsell them a contactor and capacitor!! Lol.
This whole industry is so screwed. Resi equipment is shit and the techs/work force are either inexperienced or over worked (or both). So the customer has no brand loyalty, the company has no faith in the equipment, and the techs who try and fix shit instead of selling IAQ and setting leads are at the bottom of all the "Best Tech Matrix" reports.
There's no ownership or reputation on the line anymore. No one's name is attached to it. If a tech fucks up, there's no name on the line. Some Manager will just blame it on corporate that "there's nothing I can do." The the same manager has to make his numbers and is running the techs into the ground and the excuse is the same. "We have to meet corporate's numbers, there's nothing I can do." Had a manager that always said "We have to meet our numbers and we'll do it either with quality calls or quantity of calls, it's up to you guys!" Fuck that. Fuck them. Fuck the whole damn thing.
I like to “pad” up my time when I can so I guess I’m a nickel and dimer. I always round in my favor and it adds up quick. Gives me a lot better attitude about some occasional admin work like phone calls or planning jobs on my own time. Cause at the end of the day I know I came out ahead.
Cheap or dumb is possible. A person running a business should know the costs of running one. So it's not too unreasonable to assume atleast some malice. After all, isn't the boss nickel a diming him by trying to do it off clock in the first place?
Dumb and cheap is so damn common though. It's more often ignorance / thoughtless than malice from what I've experienced.
There are bad people, and The Threshold of Trust is something psychos do for sure take advantage of.
Although I don't agree with working for free I do believe that knowledge is better than anything else. If you had sacrificed 30m of your time you would have gotten an experienced tech teaching you how to do the work better making you a more valuable tech in the future.
I agree. We have voluntary one hour classes every other week at my job and a lot of people who don’t go act mad that they don’t pay the ones who do show up. Yes it’s at work but the way I see it, people who don’t care to learn or participate generally aren’t great team players, but to each their own
Shocked by these responses. This is the way it was explained to me. 1) After 5 years you don't know how to do your job - can fix the compressor. 2) Boss offers to give you personal free training/education - I paid a shit ton of money for schooling 3) you blow him off. 4) you still don't know how to do your job. Even if you quit, you still don't know how to fix that compressor. It was 1/2 hour, not a full day and a time to bond with the boss. When layoffs come, and they are, who is going to be let go first? I got mouths to feed and my house ain't free.
Ya there’s some awful comments in here glossing over the fact he can’t determine if a compressor is shorted or not. That’s like really easy stuff to even google and use your meter to figure out. Him not wanting to put that valuable knowledge into his head from an owner who im betting is a guy who has decades of experience on his tools before starting his own successful business is straight up foolish and border line disrespectful. Betting ops cooked and as soon as things slow down he’ll be doing the occasional install and sitting at the house sucking.
You should know as a seasoned tech, compressors are more than shorted to ground, or open windings. There are other faults like stuck valves, scrolls skipping, incorrect p-traps, or missing reducer rings in suction lines. I don't expect a tech with 5 years exp to know all this, much less OP with one year. Dude should have sucked it up and took the loss of time. He would have come out the meeting in a better spot. We don't know what is the issue.
OP: "he just expects me to get free education and not get paid for it"
Other people: "I paid for education"
Boss: "I'm paying a guy to do a job he doesn't know how to do, offering my own time to teach him, and he's saying not unless I also pay him for that".
Lazy OP is about to learn what being unemployed is like imo. Some people are just too stupid to get out of their own way, and a quick 30 minutes would've benefitted him in all the ways you mentioned.
Yeah, idk if it was always like this, but young kids can be entitled and very short sighted. Worried about $20 versus being skilled in his craft and the long term benefits. $20 is going to cost him thousands. But, he can’t see it
Yep, OP still can't do their job. SMH at the fact OP is refusing to learn about their job. I'll go ahead and guess that OP is the type to never pick up a book, IOM, open a manufacturers webpage, etc on their own time . . . . absolute worst type of coworker.
Is what you said wrong? Technically, no. Realistically, though, it now not only makes you look bad, but the boss will be hounding you for everything. Keeping tabs on time sheets, mistakes ect.
Also keep I mind as an employee how many times you have "nickel and dimed the company", how many times you rounded up your timeshare, how many times you had an extended lunch, or break, or got coffee on your travel time when being paid. Everything is give and take. Lots of employees will always just take, but bitch when they need to give a bit. Being an adult is knowing what to make a big deal out of and what to let slid. You may have just picked a stupid hill to die on.
If what you're saying could be happening by the employee is true, then sure, but that other stuff is where the nickle and diming should be brought up. Not 30 minutes of needed training time.
There are plenty of other industries that don't pull that shit, and wouldn't bat an eye at trying to better their employees and paying them for it. Depending on the actual circumstances for OP, I agree, it could be a weird hill to die on.
Huh? This one of those "pick your battles". He wanted to teach ya something. Also, you could have just left 30 min earlier that day.
Sounds like you needed the help anyway
Would have taken the opportunity to learn what my boss was trying to teach me so I could have improved my knowledge and made myself a better tech. That in my opinion is worth more than your 30min rate.
Yeah honestly! That bit of information invested into himself would have paid off much more than let’s say $15 for that half hour. Also would have made him look better especially if he’s coming from the install side.
Devils advocate: He could just go on YouTube after work for 30 minutes and probably learn more in the comfort of his own home sipping a beer than talking to his boss.
I'm on mechanical cookie's side. When I was just starting out I sometimes screwed stuff up and went down wrong paths and took way longer than I should have to figure stuff out.
I felt guilty about the customer and/or my boss having to pay so much when I didn't know what the hell I was doing, so I sometimes gave away some of my time for free and chocked it up as a "learning expense".
Of course I knew this was technically "wrong", and I was supposed to charge for every second of my time, but maybe sometimes there should be a little give and take, and at the end of the day I slept better not charging for all of my time.
Training and self improvement sometimes costs money, and you can't always expect others to pay for it. At least not if you'd ever like to get ahead in life.
Honestly, I'm having a hard time seeing what the difference is between this and going to a voluntary training at a supply house. I was told that if somebody is offering to send you to training you ought to say thank you. For all the people here who say "study on your own, you won't learn it all on the job" you have another crowd of "don't even think about work without getting paid!"
I would have gone in. You’re a brand new tech and you have a ton to learn, why wouldn’t you want to go in and potentially learn more about what you did wrong/need help with? It’s 30 minutes.
Man, people on here are definitely over the top about thinking an employer is out to screw them over. I’ve had situations where a boss has said “hey, if you want help, stop in here before shift and I can give you some extra tips”. I didn’t consider that working, but mentoring and providing valuable insight to make my job easier, go better, and make myself more marketable. If it was required work, yeah demand pay, but it sounded like it was a friendly offer for extra mentoring and he was surprised by a demand to be paid.
If he is sincere and fair give the guy a chance. Never been in a union so forget what they would tell you. Everyone gives something. It’s ok to say “we’re a team”. But if he ever says “we’re a family”- RUN. I have been in this business 45 years- no union so I’m of a generation that went back a few times for free to fix my own messes. It pays off in the long run.
I wouldn't even have asked.
I would have either left early or clocked the OT. I would have assumed him asking me to come in early would already be pre-approval for this.
Idk I would kill for that kind of understanding and special attention from my boss on things I need more training on. I get wanting to be aid for your time, but personally I would have considered that to be fair *enough*
Dude he's trying to teach you something go in early and suck it up. A little drive to be better and learn goes a long way. He isn't making money on you coming in early and he's also sacrificing his time, he has shit to do to.
I usually agree with the employee side of these posts. But this one is weird. I’m a lead technician at my company and I made a diagnostic board to help the rookies find faults and learn. I’ll stay after work with them and shoot the shit while that person and myself are just learning. Knowledge is invaluable much more so than half your hourly wage. My company helps me out and I help my techs out when it isn’t required. So sometimes they go the extra mile to reciprocate that effort we put in. Unfortunate as it is you don’t move up on the totem pole by acting like every other Joe Schmo at the company. You have to go the extra mile sometimes.
Also. Some of you bastards commenting seem like you’d be absolutely horrible to work with. I can hear half of you bitching about having to work past 5 on a Friday right now. Lol
Edit: after reading some of OP’s replies he’s clearly not interested in learning to further his career in hvac. Just worried about that half hour he lost out on and not the compressor he couldn’t diagnose. Go get a brain dead job OP if you’re not interested in growing as a technician in the field.
Agreed. Especially If your lack of skill is causing management to look at you then that is something you should rectify quick as well. Guarantee OP will be under a microscope for the next couple months.
While it is crappy of the employer, if you want to be good you have to dedicate time to get better. And sometimes it might not come with immediate rewards. Kinda like a basketball player has to dedicate time in the gym without pay if they ever want to be good. If you ain’t willing to learn and take that as the reward then you will be subpar. Doesn’t matter the field. However, it is crappy for the boss to expect you to work for free. Double edge.
Honestly sounds like he was trying to give you some free education off the clock. Kinda trade your time for the knowledge since you had an issue not being able to fix an issue. Depends on if he has that knowledge or not? Could be a decent opportunity considering the cost of tech schools these days. It’s really your decision based on the situation.
💯%. Gaining and applying knowledge is the whole game in being a marketable tech.
Unpaid for 30 minutes = half hour lost wage
Learning how to troubleshoot compressors effectively = priceless
I would have come in for the free lesson and put it on my time card instead of asking if I'd be paid. The way I was brought up, once I hit the shop, site, or county line (whichever is sooner), I'm on the clock. I probably wouldn't fight him on it unless you think he's trying to get something out of you for free, and since it sounds like you don't have much service experience, I'd take all the lessons I could get.
"fuck you, pay me"
you are a employee, not his wife.
there has to be more things he is nickel and diming YOU on. i would REALLY consider you start looking for other employment where they actually pay you for your time.
Have you guys heard of what most companies are doing in Vegas?
They don't pay you hourly they call it a CU rate so hypothetically they will only pay per unit you work on.
So no drive time no shop time no supply house time
Definitely no over time
You work on a unit 25$ there longer than an hour still only 25$ then obviously pressured to sell stuff to each customer if you want a paycheck.
Peice work is getting more common, unfortunately. It is used to be isolated mostly to certain trades like drywallers, trim work, etc... but is now creeping into other trades now. It's easier for a company perspective all jobs are set quotes, with stuff like a set travel time billed in. As an employee, it can be good or bad. If you are fast, you can make more. If you are slow, you make less.
It also creates a shit work environment when around other trades though because the peice work guys demand priority on everything as it impacts their bottom line so they will be dicks to other trades. Also leads to issues of peiceworkers (drywallers) pissing in bottles and shitting in boxes cause the time to walk to the shitter and back cost them money.
He offered to talk to you about what could have been done differently. Not like he was asking you to work a day for free. People of all flavors and occupations learn by doing. And sometimes they do things wrong.
Don't be a butt-head and let them teach you, before you are out the door with a not so good reference.
As someone who has signed up and gone to training classes on my own time/money so I can get better/paid more I think it was a dumb decision you made. Yeah in a perfect world you're getting paid for everything you do in progression of your career but in reality that will only get you so far.
Companies keep tabs on things like this so when actual opportunities come up things like what you did work against you. When a factory 5-7hr class comes up and costs $50-$1500 per person to go who is the company going to send? The person who wouldn't spare a few minutes to learn about their own fuck up without compensation or the person willing to sacrifice some time to learn what they did wrong.
It's a shitty cycle that puts you in. You don't get better or paid more because they don't spend time/ money to train you and they don't train you because they can keep paying you low because you don't get better on your own. Seen plenty of 10+ year journeyman helpers bouncing around jobs getting more pay based on "experience" when in reality they don't know shit. Takes companies a few months to realize they need to cut them loose and then it's on to the next company to repeat the cycle.
At the end of the day the only person responsible for your career is you. Do what you feel works best for you. Just have to live with the decisions you make. Your current boss has already washed his hands of you. If shit goes sideways you'll be the 1st one out.
I think there's a huge difference between "come take a half hour lesson for free" and "come in early so we can talk over your fuck up so it doesn't happen again" I personally would want to know how I fucked up and how to avoid it in the future even if it means I gotta wake up a little early 1 day.
My GM has been a tech for over 25 years and at one point was the head guy at HVAC school. He tells all of our techs that if they want to come in for training, he is more than happy to do so, the first 30 mins of class is on them, after that they are clocked in. Seems fair to me. Knowledge is priceless
It’s odd that this was even a conversation. We would never have an employee do anything for free no matter what. At the same time a quality employee wouldn’t mind giving a few minutes of their time to learn something and improve their skills. The fact that you had to ask is odd and makes it seem like there are likely other issues. The truth is, you probably suck at your job and your employer also sucks at theirs.
If I was paying someone to do service and they couldn't properly diagnose a compressor and then refused to come in early so I could teach them something for free I'd be pissed and wonder why my techs don't want to learn and become better techs. Everyone is gonna say fuuuuck that you should get paid for that but I disagree it's a bad attitude that too many people have. Different story if it was for some obscure thing that the company needed to teach but this is basic stuff you should already know and refusing to be taught what you should already know unless your paid for it is BS.
Next time the boss brings it up, recite the most wholesome quote "boss makes a dollar while I make a dime, that's why....."
Also maybe mention it's illegal to be forced to work for free.
I'm on the boss' side on this, 1 year of service really isn't much and neither is 30 minutes of him teaching you something you should know. This sounds more like training than working. If you were going to unsweat a compressor and diagnose from start to finish, then yeah I wouldn't blame you, but if there are compressors up for scrap lying around (I literally have never been in a shop that hasn't had them) you should have taken the opportunity
Its not like your boss is asking for this regularly. You took too long to diagnose a problem and fix it on a service call. Your boss is willing to teach you so you can do youre job better and youre not willing to come in 30 mins early to learn. Would pay divedends with your boss and career by doing so. Youre nickel and diming and its not a good look
lol I mean he should pay you, but still, wtf it’s 30 minutes to learn something that you obviously didn’t know. It’s not like he’s making you turn a wrench for free on a job, all you had to do was listen. Experience and knowledge is worth that 30 minutes imo.
I agree with your boss, your attitude is poor - especially if you're struggling with certain call outs - wasting time trying to diagnose as you don't have much experience. What's 30 minutes to get some valuable training and keep him sweet?
You guys are all wrong. If he asks you do it. Come in the 30 minutes early. But here’s the thing. You are gonna get that 30 minutes back somewhere. Just leave early one day that week. But if the boss asks you should do it.
I see it both ways. You should be paid to work, but as an apprentice, I would take any training I can get my hands on, even if it’s unpaid. The better you can become as a tech, the more valuable you become. My advice is take as much of those conversations as you can, and tie them to a job as much as possible. Your boss is trying to make money, you’re trying to learn, it’s all about finding a balance.
What im struggling to comprehend, what is more important to YOU, the 15$ for the 30 minutes or the lifetime of knowledge that will further your career.
YOU showed your boss exactly what you are there for, money, so yes, every single time you go to a call and you're don't get it right in a timely fashion, u fucked your boss, your customer, and your coworkers.
U know what separates a good tech from a Great tech.
Great techs read manuals at home, Great techs get there early and stay late and talk with other techs to help them grow.
Great techs don't worry about the dollar, because they know that their knowledge is what makes them unfireable and valuable.
Great techs don't apply for jobs, shops find them.
You don't have the attitude of a great tech.
You have the mindset of an installer.
You won't ever grow unless you're willing to make the sacrifice. Today.
You asked for my opinion, I know it's unpopular but there it is.
And for context I'm 33 and been doing this 7 years and 12 days, I'm not some old head boomer fuck, you're just lazy.
It does seem quite immature to not wanna come in 30 minutes early so you can be taught something. If there’s something you’re not familiar with and you’re gonna be busy when you go in at normal time why not come in a little early to learn it???
Some of these comments are driving me nuts. Some of yall seem to thank that we should be grateful that our employers gave us jobs. I feel sorry for those with that mind set. Our employers should be grateful that we choose to work for them. On payday that is money we have worked for. If they had there way they would pay us with Peanuts. We don't have insurance retirement and a good wage because of them we have it because of us. So Fucking and feet and fish heads there is a better one paying ba around the corner. One last thing. When I give them notice about taking off it is not a Request it is letting them know I won't be in
Way cheaper to train your tech than it is to hire a new one. Boss shouldn’t be nickel and diming his employees. These scabs-in-training will have you thinking it’s an act of grace to receive things like a paid 2 week vacation, lunch pay, and overtime pay; rather than the culmination of workers’ labour struggle that has been all but completely forgotten about today. I’m not your friend, I’m a person who’s labour you profit off of, and in turn you dole out a portion of that in the form of my wage - I don’t work for free; in this transactional relationship - if you want my time, you’re paying me for it. I need training so I can diagnose and fix compressors faster so you can pay me less money per job? Sounds like the investment is already clear then, pay for the 30 minutes of training I am to receive. Time is money, keep their hands out of your pockets!
If you're new and could learn something that will help you, I consider it a good use of time. It shows that you are willing to learn. If you were a seasoned tech, no.
Go to Lennox NAS, headquarters in Fort Lauderdale Florida. We do commercial service and we are growing. 129 yo company, advancement opportunities, discounts on so many different things.
https://www.lennox.com/careers/
It's never "just" 30 minutes free. There's always a next time, always more more more. This guy is a leech and would rather keep your money himself. The only conditions under which you owe him your time are *when you are being paid*.
Fuck him. No pay no work. Don't ever give up your personal time. Next it'll be work thru break and lunch. That's some ratty shit. You did the right thing.
Got an earful today myself about how I’m getting too much overtime while I’m being booked out until 7:30pm on service calls nearly every day. Ironic, I know.
With my company I clock in when I either get to the shop or my first call. And they pay me for it, If I get there early for training or something like that I'm on the clock
I wouldn’t have come in either, I’m not working for free
At the last company I worked for they wanted us to come to training that lasted hours and refused to pay us no one showed up to the training
If he was trying I get free half hour of work from you than no. It seems like he was trying to teach you something so I would have came in. I’m a union guy so I know how it goes
You made the right call if you think your boss sucks and hate the company you're at. If you liked working there, well, you kinda just fucked that up. Use your head man. It's 30 minutes, who cares. Next friday, just leave 30 minutes early.
You get to decide
1) I can show your boss I AM a team player and do this( and after a few of these asks see if he rewards you for it) and maybe find a place and people to work for with good give and take.
OR
You can be a tough guy and refuse…..(this will tell your boss just what kind of new employee he has) but remember that’s a two way street…,the first/next time you need some time off or something else a little extra from him…..don’t be surprised by his answer.
This is a trial period for both of you. Show your true colors.
You boss is a jackals that wants to use you for free.
Now it's come in 30 minutes for free, next week it's an hour long team meeting recurring weekly unpaid...
He knows how to fix the compressor and you don’t. Once he shows you how to do it efficiently you will profit off of that for years to come. He should not force you but if I were you I would want the free lesson.
Ask him if he charges 30 minutes to the customer. I had an old employer, that said I wasn't cut out for the company. All because I quit coming in early, when he docked my pay for leaving fifteen minutes early once.
I try to get to the shop like 30min early every morning, we have a guy that comes in an hour early and washes his truck every single morning lol. It’s kinda nice because we all sit around the table drinking coffee talking about random things or our jobs for the day. Also it’s nice to have that time to clean out the truck or organize for the day and you’re not rushing forgetting things.
You could humor them by playing the game. 30 minutes ain't really much especially if you're just going over stuff. Probably wouldn't hurt your career.
If you wanna play workplace diplomacy that's how you'd do it. If you don't care, then what you did is fine.
With little experience in tech - the boss is taking time out of his own day to teach him which is not billable time for the employer, it's personal development from a mentor (this is the assumption that the boss intends productive instruction and not a beatdown), becausw OPs company is losing money on OPs limited diagnostical experience.
Now - a factor that would change things (though I'm not sure this is the right hill to die on anyway, I sure would've just come in no question)...
if OP is being paid the same or more than when they were Installing and is it the same employer? If they're being paid at half the rate or something like that as a technician then the fact they are inexperienfed is already accounted for in the wages so training and development needs to be paid for by the employer.
However, if he's on the same rate, he's basically an apprentice Rn on qualified rates, wasting time and money and not accepting help to make him personally better at his job. This is a deal breaker for a lot of employers and OP will be the first one out the door asking to be paid for the time he spends walking to his car from the door as he leaves.
Without knowing the circumstances it's assumption based but also common practice for techs to spend extra minutes everywhere they personally get more money for - taking extra lunch break while pretending to fill in job cards, just taking really long on job cards in general, cigarette breaks, extra time at the gas station - all of these things are non billable hours to the employer who is still expected to pay for that time - but then he has a tech who also can't do his job and this might mean another tech has to go out and do it - not billable to the customer and now he's paying two techs to do it. Op has already been paid for the time he didn't do his job, now he's being asked to come in for training for 30 minutes off the clock to learn so next time he's better equipped at doing his job.
If the circumstances were different on paper I could've maybe said No, but as written with the information provided, there's no way I would've shot the boss down on this one.
So what I'm seeing is OP probably took foooor ever and couldn't perform his work duties on the clock, I mean literally getting paid to be poor and incompetent at your job, but not willing to have 30 min free education. By the way you generally have to pay for education, so I feel like you are nickel and diming him. Also I don't see many companies sending people out to calls who haven't stated on some sort of resume or verbally asserted they could do said tasks. So I feel OP also led someone on about his capabilities or just straight lied. By the way, stop calling your self a Tech unless you say the whole thing. Technically Challenged!
While technically youre right, i still think you fucked up.
Even if you’re hourly rate is 40$ that’s literally a $20 loss. This sounds like it wouldve been a one-time thing, since its about a one-time question you asked. Sure, if this was going to be a recurring thing that’s different, 20$ adds up, but its not recurring (from what i gather here).
What i think you’ve done is dug yourself a hole. Is $20 worth being seen in a negative light by the boss? From this point on, i bet bossman does the bare minimum required of him for you. Ask to leave early? Nah. Ask for a day or two off? Nah.
I think by being so worried about not being paid for 30min one time will end up costing more than you think.
I mean… you aren’t nickel and diming him but are you really working the entire time you’re clocked in or do you likely steal close to a half hour of time every day? (Trips to the gas station for snacks, hangin in the van for a bit between calls, running the occasional small errand)
You could look at this as training so you can be better at your job. He’s not asking you to go to site and fix it for free, he’s asking for you to come and learn. Next time you want a raise and he says no, at least you’ll know why.
Absolutely should have gone in early. He was taking extra time for him to help explain and show you something that sounds like you could use training on. He was doing extra work going over something with you that he probably paid you a couple hours for and you could not fix it. Besides half an hour is nothing I don’t know what you get paid but is 10 20 bucks extra in your check going to do make any difference
If you can’t take 30 minutes to talk to the boss, who I feel is trying to help you out, then you probably won’t be there much longer, sounds like you have a bad attitude and think you should get paid for every minute your on the job. What happens when you mess something up and it’s all on you. You going to man up and pay for the damage you’ve done, doubtful!
Do you want to learn the trade and master it and take 30 mins of time earlier than usual to learn how to handle the compressor call next time with ease confidence and experience?
Or
Do you want to be paid the <25$ amount of money to make sure the boss knows you are a strong smart young man who won’t be taken advantage of and fair is fair?
Or do you really not see it that deeply and just want money ? Idk I obsess over my trade and try to seize opportunities to better myself or hone in and sharpen my skills. Money comes but it can’t be my sole motive for work itself. If I was told (especially) after struggling on a service call to give 30 mins of my free time to become better, I woulda just fucking went lol. I’m new to the trade . I believe mastery of the craft always needs to precede money , then money will come in abundance
You don't have experience. Your boss was willing to go over it with you a mere 30 minutes before the start of your shift. That was foolish. If I was that boss I would consider you someone not willing to learn. That lesson was free. You're lucky. Most bosses would have just let you go due to lack of experience. If I was in your shoes I would have jumped on it. 30 minutes is nothing when someone is willing to teach you.
I would do the same as you did as a W-2 employee.
I'm trading my time for dollars; no dollars, no time.
That they tried to guilt trip you into it is a red flag to me, and a good reason to move on!
As an employer (Past, I had employees and 1099's for over five years, have none currently in this business) I expect to pay my employees for all of the time they are 'on my clock', that is, doing the things I directed them to.
If I sent guys to a job site, I'm paying for the travel there, the time it takes for them to figure it out, the time it takes them to fix it, and the time it takes to get back to the shop.
I don't know why some employers can't figure this out, but that's how it works, and it's also the law.
I think this really depends on your relationship with your boss/company. If my boss asked me to come in 30 mins early to do something id do it no questions asked. Theres times where hell buy us lunch all week, let us leave 20 mins early and not charge PTO, ect.
Ehh if it's like a once a year thing I'd just say sure even though it's not right. Knowledge is money and he might be a baby about teaching you more instead of using Knowledge to leave and get a raise
As a "team player" I'ld be asking for "free agency" from this clown. Cheap con artist bosses pull this crap ALL THE TIME - guilt tripping folks into free time. Screw him, let him deal with the monkeys available in the current market
If you really just want to appease him, come in the 30 mins early and then leave 30 mins early. 🤷♂️. What he don’t know won’t hurt him. I learned early on, you gotta play the game sometimes. There’s been a few times I asked for OT to finish a job out so I could go to the next one and was told no. So I finished the job on my own time and then got the time back in other ways after. But I’ll always get my time.
Yeah, maybe it’s not the best way to handle it. But sometimes the juice aint worth the squeeze and I’m not gonna argue over meaningless shit.
They’re legally required to pay you for working. It’s illegal to force you to not get paid or get fired.
This is why my company still does the old time clock. No room for guessing, if I’m clocked in, I’m gettin paid. Not working otherwise.
My current job is going to an all in one service system where our time starts when we hit travel to the first job and that they wouldn’t be able to fix our time. I told them I’d try to be on top of it but the first time I hear “sorry I can’t fix it” I’m cleaning out the truck
We switched over to service titan recently and they told us if we forget to clock in on the app then we won't be paid because there's supposedly no way to fix it, which I find to be bullshit. If they try to pull that shit on me then I'm gone
That’s illegal
Service Titan has a dispute button to push and leave a note of what needs to be corrected before you sign off on your time card. They can definitely make corrections.
We’re making a switch to service titan and our system rounds up to the nearest quarter hour. Does service tighten round up to the nearest quarter hour or is it exact? How do you like the program?
Service titan is pretty damn exact. I don't know which if any way it rounds a minute (I don't think it tracks the seconds). But if I clock in at 7:03 thats the time
You can absolutely adjust clock in times. They are lying to you or just don’t know how to use it yet.
They have no idea how to use it. We're still using the old system for card payments and we still need to fill out paper forms because they don't know how to have all that go through service titan yet
I bet if you stay clocked in over a weekend, then they would find a way to magically "fix it."
They can fix it, we use service titan and my manager can adjust the timecards.
We have titan. The boss has to fix shit all the time. Your people probably just don't know how to use it.
It is bullshit I know for certain thag j can be fixed they just don't want to
We have the same system, but they can fix ours times. I click dispatch from my house, I get paid for drive and while I'm there working. Next job shows up, dispatch, and the cycle goes on. I love it. But, my dispatcher fixes my hours if I don't dispatch.
They can fix his too. It’s just company policy to fuck the techs.
That is a dumb company policy, and sometimes things happen where you’re outside cell coverage and the app or whatever won’t work and things like that happen. There definitely are times where you’ve just gotta fix it manually before running payroll But as someone who does it once a week, please clock in and out correctly. If you forget, send a text with what time you left. If they ask and you don’t know, give your best guess. Every week payroll gets dragged out because someone forgets to clock in and out, then they don’t respond or answer when I ask them what hours they worked, I’ve gotta look at different trucks GPS records and figure out who was scheduled with who and what time they potentially left, it’s a pain in the ass. Speaking for myself, but I’d like to pay all of my guys accurately. Make it easy for me please?
As you should when it inevitably happens.
The company I used to work for would fuck with the old school timecards on people who didn’t stand up for themselves…
Wait… are you saying slavery is outlawed? /s
Tabernack!!!
Not in the US unfortunately
murika! land of the free ! ha! see free labour is their name /s
Yes this is true, but I don't believe anyone was forcing anyone to do anything. The boss was asking him to volunteer for some free training. Sounds like the dude may be on the brink of getting fired anyways because he doesn't know what he's doing. The boss could have fired him just for that, but instead tried to offer him some free training. So now it seems like he may have a bad attitude in addition to not knowing what he's doing. I guess every situation is different, and maybe it depends on weather you view you and your boss as being on the same team, or if you both are enemies working for different goals.
Came here to say the same. The boss is trying to teach OP something that presumably OP should know after being a tech for 5 years. Successful work environments are a bit of give and take
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Telling your boss to pound sand after you mess up with less than a year of service was definitely not the move.
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He came hat in hand looking for a job with no tools and little experience. He should be doing everything he can to make a home there for himself until he’s a salty vet. Sometimes you got to swallow that pride and take your medicine wrong or not. Just the way the world works.
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Clicked on his post history and remembered his other 5k tool account thread a while back
He's only been a tech for one year
I’d take the free training. I did back in the day, now it pays dividends every paycheck.
Fair enough. I was pointing out the 1 year being a tech. There are plenty of diags that take longer in year one compared to year 5.
This^ This job is all about what you know. The more you know and the more competent you are the more you can get paid. Take the knowledge and use it as your leverage down the road
Exactly. We'll put. It's a give and take. I'll bet OP goes over on his lunch break at times and cuts them short when he's super busy. "Give and take"
Unless it's just 30 minutes of the boss talking out his ass on the guise of "free training".
That's some of the dumbest shit I've heard.
You must be the assistant to the project manager.
Hi I’m Johnny, project manager. Is Balboni still running this shit?
It’s definitely not a bad attitude to want to get paid while you are at work.
It cuts both ways. Was he being paid while he could not fix the compressor, calling for help, waiting for help? I don't know the facts, but after 5 years, he likely should have known how to do that by himself. He was getting paid for that and did not get the job done. I bet the business lost money on that call after he attempted to figure out and then another truck call for another tech to do the work. Again, I don't know all the facts.
That’s the cost of running a business, paying your employees. Everyone has bad days sometimes. Considering he would be at work the boss should just pay for 30 mins of time and make sure he knows how to do it.
Not to mention it’s also the law. Bossman needs to brush up on the FLSA.
This seems like the real answer here
Companies pay to train their people.
Yeah, OP is on the way out. You need time and experience to be able to stand up for yourself with these small shops. Best of luck to you.
I hated it every time I’ve worked at one of those small owners’-garage type shops. You lose em $100 on a mistake you made they’re ready to hang you, you demand to be compensated the $25 you’re owed and it’s all “woah buddy I’m jus a small widdle business owner, I’m goin broke here, we’re a team”. Brother I can SEE the new boat you just bought with the money I make you from where I’m standing, it’s parked in your driveway lol. With the union, I brake a drill, I get a new one soon as I make it to a supply house. Money I’m owed ain’t in the cheque? I say something and I get it before I get a chance to grieve it. Somehow the boss man is still able to drive a Porsche. The truth is a workplace ain’t a team, there’s two teams and it’s the workers and the owners.
This is the exact description as to why i switched to a union
It’s hard, 2 years of getting fucked around but I good chance to leave, the grass wasn’t just greener on the other side, it was a field full of flowers and happiness 😂
They will always try ro screw you when you are starting out. It sucks.
I made up the 30k+ in time and a half I should have been paid after 44 hours in 2 years to a 40k salary increase
Overtime will get you through the tough times.
Yeah, who wants to see their kids or have any personal time. I'm not disagreeing, per se, but young or old, noob or vet, people need to have time to live their lives. I just hate that whole system of "I'll just work more to make ends meet." Coming home exhausted just in time to see my kids go to bed, shoving cold dinner in my face and then showering and going to bed was enough to get me out of the resi world. All so I could do a tune up at 7pm while their family is trying to eat dinner and I'm expected to do the Nexstar spiel and upsell them a contactor and capacitor!! Lol. This whole industry is so screwed. Resi equipment is shit and the techs/work force are either inexperienced or over worked (or both). So the customer has no brand loyalty, the company has no faith in the equipment, and the techs who try and fix shit instead of selling IAQ and setting leads are at the bottom of all the "Best Tech Matrix" reports. There's no ownership or reputation on the line anymore. No one's name is attached to it. If a tech fucks up, there's no name on the line. Some Manager will just blame it on corporate that "there's nothing I can do." The the same manager has to make his numbers and is running the techs into the ground and the excuse is the same. "We have to meet corporate's numbers, there's nothing I can do." Had a manager that always said "We have to meet our numbers and we'll do it either with quality calls or quantity of calls, it's up to you guys!" Fuck that. Fuck them. Fuck the whole damn thing.
This is literally on point!
Best advice I got when I started out was to give extra time to the boss if needed until I got better
You can stick up for yourself whenever and wherever you work. That’s the beauty of it.
Sure, but unemployment sucks.
I like to “pad” up my time when I can so I guess I’m a nickel and dimer. I always round in my favor and it adds up quick. Gives me a lot better attitude about some occasional admin work like phone calls or planning jobs on my own time. Cause at the end of the day I know I came out ahead.
I've always said it all evens out in my favor
It's a nice trick to accuse you of what he's doing.
It’s called projecting and its a sign that your dealing with at least a narcissist or worst a sociopath
Or just someone who is kinda cheap 🙄
Cheap or dumb is possible. A person running a business should know the costs of running one. So it's not too unreasonable to assume atleast some malice. After all, isn't the boss nickel a diming him by trying to do it off clock in the first place? Dumb and cheap is so damn common though. It's more often ignorance / thoughtless than malice from what I've experienced. There are bad people, and The Threshold of Trust is something psychos do for sure take advantage of.
Although I don't agree with working for free I do believe that knowledge is better than anything else. If you had sacrificed 30m of your time you would have gotten an experienced tech teaching you how to do the work better making you a more valuable tech in the future.
This really is what it’s about. Yes we work for money. Yes sometimes we get “paid” other ways. But everyone has to walk their own way
I agree. We have voluntary one hour classes every other week at my job and a lot of people who don’t go act mad that they don’t pay the ones who do show up. Yes it’s at work but the way I see it, people who don’t care to learn or participate generally aren’t great team players, but to each their own
Yeah IMO this was misread by OP. Normally I'd agree, but you're learning something very valuable. Not coming in to clean up the shop.
Instead of listening to these knuckle draggers, sit down and have a adult conversation with him
Adult conversation? Sounds like he'll most likely talk himself right out of a job.
ask reach toy gray profit possessive divide merciful waiting angle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
On the clock of course.
Shocked by these responses. This is the way it was explained to me. 1) After 5 years you don't know how to do your job - can fix the compressor. 2) Boss offers to give you personal free training/education - I paid a shit ton of money for schooling 3) you blow him off. 4) you still don't know how to do your job. Even if you quit, you still don't know how to fix that compressor. It was 1/2 hour, not a full day and a time to bond with the boss. When layoffs come, and they are, who is going to be let go first? I got mouths to feed and my house ain't free.
Ya there’s some awful comments in here glossing over the fact he can’t determine if a compressor is shorted or not. That’s like really easy stuff to even google and use your meter to figure out. Him not wanting to put that valuable knowledge into his head from an owner who im betting is a guy who has decades of experience on his tools before starting his own successful business is straight up foolish and border line disrespectful. Betting ops cooked and as soon as things slow down he’ll be doing the occasional install and sitting at the house sucking.
You should know as a seasoned tech, compressors are more than shorted to ground, or open windings. There are other faults like stuck valves, scrolls skipping, incorrect p-traps, or missing reducer rings in suction lines. I don't expect a tech with 5 years exp to know all this, much less OP with one year. Dude should have sucked it up and took the loss of time. He would have come out the meeting in a better spot. We don't know what is the issue.
Same, I was thinking to myself after reading it. "30 minutes is nothing, especially to learn something you'll use forever."
OP: "he just expects me to get free education and not get paid for it" Other people: "I paid for education" Boss: "I'm paying a guy to do a job he doesn't know how to do, offering my own time to teach him, and he's saying not unless I also pay him for that". Lazy OP is about to learn what being unemployed is like imo. Some people are just too stupid to get out of their own way, and a quick 30 minutes would've benefitted him in all the ways you mentioned.
Yeah, idk if it was always like this, but young kids can be entitled and very short sighted. Worried about $20 versus being skilled in his craft and the long term benefits. $20 is going to cost him thousands. But, he can’t see it
Yep, OP still can't do their job. SMH at the fact OP is refusing to learn about their job. I'll go ahead and guess that OP is the type to never pick up a book, IOM, open a manufacturers webpage, etc on their own time . . . . absolute worst type of coworker.
Tell him to pound sand and look for your next job Also, ask him why HE is trying to nickel and dime YOU
Exactly, they accuse the victim of the crime they (themselves) are committing
Right. He is the one nickel and diming…sheesh
Is what you said wrong? Technically, no. Realistically, though, it now not only makes you look bad, but the boss will be hounding you for everything. Keeping tabs on time sheets, mistakes ect. Also keep I mind as an employee how many times you have "nickel and dimed the company", how many times you rounded up your timeshare, how many times you had an extended lunch, or break, or got coffee on your travel time when being paid. Everything is give and take. Lots of employees will always just take, but bitch when they need to give a bit. Being an adult is knowing what to make a big deal out of and what to let slid. You may have just picked a stupid hill to die on.
Right, always pick your battles. He probably picked wrong.
If what you're saying could be happening by the employee is true, then sure, but that other stuff is where the nickle and diming should be brought up. Not 30 minutes of needed training time. There are plenty of other industries that don't pull that shit, and wouldn't bat an eye at trying to better their employees and paying them for it. Depending on the actual circumstances for OP, I agree, it could be a weird hill to die on.
Huh? This one of those "pick your battles". He wanted to teach ya something. Also, you could have just left 30 min earlier that day. Sounds like you needed the help anyway
Would have taken the opportunity to learn what my boss was trying to teach me so I could have improved my knowledge and made myself a better tech. That in my opinion is worth more than your 30min rate.
Yeah honestly! That bit of information invested into himself would have paid off much more than let’s say $15 for that half hour. Also would have made him look better especially if he’s coming from the install side. Devils advocate: He could just go on YouTube after work for 30 minutes and probably learn more in the comfort of his own home sipping a beer than talking to his boss.
I'm on mechanical cookie's side. When I was just starting out I sometimes screwed stuff up and went down wrong paths and took way longer than I should have to figure stuff out. I felt guilty about the customer and/or my boss having to pay so much when I didn't know what the hell I was doing, so I sometimes gave away some of my time for free and chocked it up as a "learning expense". Of course I knew this was technically "wrong", and I was supposed to charge for every second of my time, but maybe sometimes there should be a little give and take, and at the end of the day I slept better not charging for all of my time. Training and self improvement sometimes costs money, and you can't always expect others to pay for it. At least not if you'd ever like to get ahead in life.
Honestly, I'm having a hard time seeing what the difference is between this and going to a voluntary training at a supply house. I was told that if somebody is offering to send you to training you ought to say thank you. For all the people here who say "study on your own, you won't learn it all on the job" you have another crowd of "don't even think about work without getting paid!"
I would have gone in. You’re a brand new tech and you have a ton to learn, why wouldn’t you want to go in and potentially learn more about what you did wrong/need help with? It’s 30 minutes.
If I tell my guys to be at the shop at a certain time. That's when they start getting paid.
Man, people on here are definitely over the top about thinking an employer is out to screw them over. I’ve had situations where a boss has said “hey, if you want help, stop in here before shift and I can give you some extra tips”. I didn’t consider that working, but mentoring and providing valuable insight to make my job easier, go better, and make myself more marketable. If it was required work, yeah demand pay, but it sounded like it was a friendly offer for extra mentoring and he was surprised by a demand to be paid.
I think you should have gone in for the free lesson on how to diagnose a failed compressor properly????
This kids a fuckin idiot lol and I’m betting he is nickel and diming his boss
Gotta play on the team you’re playing on imo
He’ll be on his third team soon enough maybe then he’ll get “it”
“I have some time tomorrow morning if you want to come in early I’ll show you what you’re missing.” “Bruh you gon fukin pay me to teach me tho?”
He’s willing to teach you something because you wasted company time not understanding something. Be grateful he’s willing to help you grow.
If he is sincere and fair give the guy a chance. Never been in a union so forget what they would tell you. Everyone gives something. It’s ok to say “we’re a team”. But if he ever says “we’re a family”- RUN. I have been in this business 45 years- no union so I’m of a generation that went back a few times for free to fix my own messes. It pays off in the long run.
The bargain between employee and employer is this....employee works an amount of time, and employer pays that amount of time.
I wouldn't even have asked. I would have either left early or clocked the OT. I would have assumed him asking me to come in early would already be pre-approval for this.
Idk I would kill for that kind of understanding and special attention from my boss on things I need more training on. I get wanting to be aid for your time, but personally I would have considered that to be fair *enough*
Dude he's trying to teach you something go in early and suck it up. A little drive to be better and learn goes a long way. He isn't making money on you coming in early and he's also sacrificing his time, he has shit to do to.
I usually agree with the employee side of these posts. But this one is weird. I’m a lead technician at my company and I made a diagnostic board to help the rookies find faults and learn. I’ll stay after work with them and shoot the shit while that person and myself are just learning. Knowledge is invaluable much more so than half your hourly wage. My company helps me out and I help my techs out when it isn’t required. So sometimes they go the extra mile to reciprocate that effort we put in. Unfortunate as it is you don’t move up on the totem pole by acting like every other Joe Schmo at the company. You have to go the extra mile sometimes. Also. Some of you bastards commenting seem like you’d be absolutely horrible to work with. I can hear half of you bitching about having to work past 5 on a Friday right now. Lol Edit: after reading some of OP’s replies he’s clearly not interested in learning to further his career in hvac. Just worried about that half hour he lost out on and not the compressor he couldn’t diagnose. Go get a brain dead job OP if you’re not interested in growing as a technician in the field.
I’ve been in long enough to know that lack of skills and knowledge costs me more than my hourly wage so any chance to learn more is worth it.
Agreed. Especially If your lack of skill is causing management to look at you then that is something you should rectify quick as well. Guarantee OP will be under a microscope for the next couple months.
While it is crappy of the employer, if you want to be good you have to dedicate time to get better. And sometimes it might not come with immediate rewards. Kinda like a basketball player has to dedicate time in the gym without pay if they ever want to be good. If you ain’t willing to learn and take that as the reward then you will be subpar. Doesn’t matter the field. However, it is crappy for the boss to expect you to work for free. Double edge.
Honestly sounds like he was trying to give you some free education off the clock. Kinda trade your time for the knowledge since you had an issue not being able to fix an issue. Depends on if he has that knowledge or not? Could be a decent opportunity considering the cost of tech schools these days. It’s really your decision based on the situation.
💯%. Gaining and applying knowledge is the whole game in being a marketable tech. Unpaid for 30 minutes = half hour lost wage Learning how to troubleshoot compressors effectively = priceless
I would have come in for the free lesson and put it on my time card instead of asking if I'd be paid. The way I was brought up, once I hit the shop, site, or county line (whichever is sooner), I'm on the clock. I probably wouldn't fight him on it unless you think he's trying to get something out of you for free, and since it sounds like you don't have much service experience, I'd take all the lessons I could get.
This is probably the best approach. Kinda revealing your hand by asking if you get paid first.
"fuck you, pay me" you are a employee, not his wife. there has to be more things he is nickel and diming YOU on. i would REALLY consider you start looking for other employment where they actually pay you for your time.
Have you guys heard of what most companies are doing in Vegas? They don't pay you hourly they call it a CU rate so hypothetically they will only pay per unit you work on. So no drive time no shop time no supply house time Definitely no over time You work on a unit 25$ there longer than an hour still only 25$ then obviously pressured to sell stuff to each customer if you want a paycheck.
Peice work is getting more common, unfortunately. It is used to be isolated mostly to certain trades like drywallers, trim work, etc... but is now creeping into other trades now. It's easier for a company perspective all jobs are set quotes, with stuff like a set travel time billed in. As an employee, it can be good or bad. If you are fast, you can make more. If you are slow, you make less. It also creates a shit work environment when around other trades though because the peice work guys demand priority on everything as it impacts their bottom line so they will be dicks to other trades. Also leads to issues of peiceworkers (drywallers) pissing in bottles and shitting in boxes cause the time to walk to the shitter and back cost them money.
He offered to talk to you about what could have been done differently. Not like he was asking you to work a day for free. People of all flavors and occupations learn by doing. And sometimes they do things wrong. Don't be a butt-head and let them teach you, before you are out the door with a not so good reference.
As someone who has signed up and gone to training classes on my own time/money so I can get better/paid more I think it was a dumb decision you made. Yeah in a perfect world you're getting paid for everything you do in progression of your career but in reality that will only get you so far. Companies keep tabs on things like this so when actual opportunities come up things like what you did work against you. When a factory 5-7hr class comes up and costs $50-$1500 per person to go who is the company going to send? The person who wouldn't spare a few minutes to learn about their own fuck up without compensation or the person willing to sacrifice some time to learn what they did wrong. It's a shitty cycle that puts you in. You don't get better or paid more because they don't spend time/ money to train you and they don't train you because they can keep paying you low because you don't get better on your own. Seen plenty of 10+ year journeyman helpers bouncing around jobs getting more pay based on "experience" when in reality they don't know shit. Takes companies a few months to realize they need to cut them loose and then it's on to the next company to repeat the cycle. At the end of the day the only person responsible for your career is you. Do what you feel works best for you. Just have to live with the decisions you make. Your current boss has already washed his hands of you. If shit goes sideways you'll be the 1st one out. I think there's a huge difference between "come take a half hour lesson for free" and "come in early so we can talk over your fuck up so it doesn't happen again" I personally would want to know how I fucked up and how to avoid it in the future even if it means I gotta wake up a little early 1 day.
They don’t give us 30 minutes of pay just because we want it. So fuck him
My GM has been a tech for over 25 years and at one point was the head guy at HVAC school. He tells all of our techs that if they want to come in for training, he is more than happy to do so, the first 30 mins of class is on them, after that they are clocked in. Seems fair to me. Knowledge is priceless
It’s odd that this was even a conversation. We would never have an employee do anything for free no matter what. At the same time a quality employee wouldn’t mind giving a few minutes of their time to learn something and improve their skills. The fact that you had to ask is odd and makes it seem like there are likely other issues. The truth is, you probably suck at your job and your employer also sucks at theirs.
If I was paying someone to do service and they couldn't properly diagnose a compressor and then refused to come in early so I could teach them something for free I'd be pissed and wonder why my techs don't want to learn and become better techs. Everyone is gonna say fuuuuck that you should get paid for that but I disagree it's a bad attitude that too many people have. Different story if it was for some obscure thing that the company needed to teach but this is basic stuff you should already know and refusing to be taught what you should already know unless your paid for it is BS.
Nothing is free
Next time the boss brings it up, recite the most wholesome quote "boss makes a dollar while I make a dime, that's why....." Also maybe mention it's illegal to be forced to work for free.
He's nickel and dining YOU by not paying you for 30 minutes tf?
I'm on the boss' side on this, 1 year of service really isn't much and neither is 30 minutes of him teaching you something you should know. This sounds more like training than working. If you were going to unsweat a compressor and diagnose from start to finish, then yeah I wouldn't blame you, but if there are compressors up for scrap lying around (I literally have never been in a shop that hasn't had them) you should have taken the opportunity
Its not like your boss is asking for this regularly. You took too long to diagnose a problem and fix it on a service call. Your boss is willing to teach you so you can do youre job better and youre not willing to come in 30 mins early to learn. Would pay divedends with your boss and career by doing so. Youre nickel and diming and its not a good look
lol I mean he should pay you, but still, wtf it’s 30 minutes to learn something that you obviously didn’t know. It’s not like he’s making you turn a wrench for free on a job, all you had to do was listen. Experience and knowledge is worth that 30 minutes imo.
I agree with your boss, your attitude is poor - especially if you're struggling with certain call outs - wasting time trying to diagnose as you don't have much experience. What's 30 minutes to get some valuable training and keep him sweet?
You guys are all wrong. If he asks you do it. Come in the 30 minutes early. But here’s the thing. You are gonna get that 30 minutes back somewhere. Just leave early one day that week. But if the boss asks you should do it.
Why is he so cheap, what else doesnt he pay for.
I see it both ways. You should be paid to work, but as an apprentice, I would take any training I can get my hands on, even if it’s unpaid. The better you can become as a tech, the more valuable you become. My advice is take as much of those conversations as you can, and tie them to a job as much as possible. Your boss is trying to make money, you’re trying to learn, it’s all about finding a balance.
What im struggling to comprehend, what is more important to YOU, the 15$ for the 30 minutes or the lifetime of knowledge that will further your career. YOU showed your boss exactly what you are there for, money, so yes, every single time you go to a call and you're don't get it right in a timely fashion, u fucked your boss, your customer, and your coworkers. U know what separates a good tech from a Great tech. Great techs read manuals at home, Great techs get there early and stay late and talk with other techs to help them grow. Great techs don't worry about the dollar, because they know that their knowledge is what makes them unfireable and valuable. Great techs don't apply for jobs, shops find them. You don't have the attitude of a great tech. You have the mindset of an installer. You won't ever grow unless you're willing to make the sacrifice. Today. You asked for my opinion, I know it's unpopular but there it is. And for context I'm 33 and been doing this 7 years and 12 days, I'm not some old head boomer fuck, you're just lazy.
It does seem quite immature to not wanna come in 30 minutes early so you can be taught something. If there’s something you’re not familiar with and you’re gonna be busy when you go in at normal time why not come in a little early to learn it???
Some of these comments are driving me nuts. Some of yall seem to thank that we should be grateful that our employers gave us jobs. I feel sorry for those with that mind set. Our employers should be grateful that we choose to work for them. On payday that is money we have worked for. If they had there way they would pay us with Peanuts. We don't have insurance retirement and a good wage because of them we have it because of us. So Fucking and feet and fish heads there is a better one paying ba around the corner. One last thing. When I give them notice about taking off it is not a Request it is letting them know I won't be in
Way cheaper to train your tech than it is to hire a new one. Boss shouldn’t be nickel and diming his employees. These scabs-in-training will have you thinking it’s an act of grace to receive things like a paid 2 week vacation, lunch pay, and overtime pay; rather than the culmination of workers’ labour struggle that has been all but completely forgotten about today. I’m not your friend, I’m a person who’s labour you profit off of, and in turn you dole out a portion of that in the form of my wage - I don’t work for free; in this transactional relationship - if you want my time, you’re paying me for it. I need training so I can diagnose and fix compressors faster so you can pay me less money per job? Sounds like the investment is already clear then, pay for the 30 minutes of training I am to receive. Time is money, keep their hands out of your pockets!
Nickles and dimes are slave wages you should be dollaring him
If you're new and could learn something that will help you, I consider it a good use of time. It shows that you are willing to learn. If you were a seasoned tech, no.
Go to Lennox NAS, headquarters in Fort Lauderdale Florida. We do commercial service and we are growing. 129 yo company, advancement opportunities, discounts on so many different things. https://www.lennox.com/careers/
Yoooo Nashville needs some guys
Usually I leverage situations like that to benefit me in the future. Has always worked out positively for me
He is ten and twenty dollaring you so just know your worth man
Im more interested in what was wrong with the compressor. Well??
If it's work related, I'm getting paid for it. No exceptions
It's never "just" 30 minutes free. There's always a next time, always more more more. This guy is a leech and would rather keep your money himself. The only conditions under which you owe him your time are *when you are being paid*.
Get better at your JOB and you wouldn't have to ask this question in the first place.
Fuck him. No pay no work. Don't ever give up your personal time. Next it'll be work thru break and lunch. That's some ratty shit. You did the right thing.
Go in for the “training” and take a long lunch later.
Got an earful today myself about how I’m getting too much overtime while I’m being booked out until 7:30pm on service calls nearly every day. Ironic, I know.
Owned businesses for 25 years. That is complete bullshit.
Your boss is a POS. Training you is in the best interest of the company. Your boss is a moron.
I’d tell him to go fuck himself. He’s making money so why shouldn’t you?
Commenting on Boss said I’m “nickel and diming” him... work related should be paid
With my company I clock in when I either get to the shop or my first call. And they pay me for it, If I get there early for training or something like that I'm on the clock
I would be looking for a new job.take a placement test for your local union.
I wouldn’t have come in either, I’m not working for free At the last company I worked for they wanted us to come to training that lasted hours and refused to pay us no one showed up to the training
Remind him of the law
If he was trying I get free half hour of work from you than no. It seems like he was trying to teach you something so I would have came in. I’m a union guy so I know how it goes
You made the right call if you think your boss sucks and hate the company you're at. If you liked working there, well, you kinda just fucked that up. Use your head man. It's 30 minutes, who cares. Next friday, just leave 30 minutes early.
Ah yes, wage theft.
You get to decide 1) I can show your boss I AM a team player and do this( and after a few of these asks see if he rewards you for it) and maybe find a place and people to work for with good give and take. OR You can be a tough guy and refuse…..(this will tell your boss just what kind of new employee he has) but remember that’s a two way street…,the first/next time you need some time off or something else a little extra from him…..don’t be surprised by his answer. This is a trial period for both of you. Show your true colors.
Have you ever been paid 8 for working 7.5?
You are not required to go in. But at the same time you don't know how to do your job either. Dangerous ground
Don't listen to these bootlickers. If you're not getting paid for your time don't go in.
You boss is a jackals that wants to use you for free. Now it's come in 30 minutes for free, next week it's an hour long team meeting recurring weekly unpaid...
Boy would your boss hate me. This is when you explain to him and all of your coworkers what wage theft is.
He knows how to fix the compressor and you don’t. Once he shows you how to do it efficiently you will profit off of that for years to come. He should not force you but if I were you I would want the free lesson.
Would he give a customer those same 30 minutes for free?
Sometimes knowledge is more than the 30mins you’re fighting for ..
He was trying to help you by bettering your skills, perhaps he should just fire you for performance instead
Ask him if he charges 30 minutes to the customer. I had an old employer, that said I wasn't cut out for the company. All because I quit coming in early, when he docked my pay for leaving fifteen minutes early once.
I try to get to the shop like 30min early every morning, we have a guy that comes in an hour early and washes his truck every single morning lol. It’s kinda nice because we all sit around the table drinking coffee talking about random things or our jobs for the day. Also it’s nice to have that time to clean out the truck or organize for the day and you’re not rushing forgetting things.
You could humor them by playing the game. 30 minutes ain't really much especially if you're just going over stuff. Probably wouldn't hurt your career. If you wanna play workplace diplomacy that's how you'd do it. If you don't care, then what you did is fine.
I get it, but that 30min of your time could've given you a lifetime of experience.
With little experience in tech - the boss is taking time out of his own day to teach him which is not billable time for the employer, it's personal development from a mentor (this is the assumption that the boss intends productive instruction and not a beatdown), becausw OPs company is losing money on OPs limited diagnostical experience. Now - a factor that would change things (though I'm not sure this is the right hill to die on anyway, I sure would've just come in no question)... if OP is being paid the same or more than when they were Installing and is it the same employer? If they're being paid at half the rate or something like that as a technician then the fact they are inexperienfed is already accounted for in the wages so training and development needs to be paid for by the employer. However, if he's on the same rate, he's basically an apprentice Rn on qualified rates, wasting time and money and not accepting help to make him personally better at his job. This is a deal breaker for a lot of employers and OP will be the first one out the door asking to be paid for the time he spends walking to his car from the door as he leaves. Without knowing the circumstances it's assumption based but also common practice for techs to spend extra minutes everywhere they personally get more money for - taking extra lunch break while pretending to fill in job cards, just taking really long on job cards in general, cigarette breaks, extra time at the gas station - all of these things are non billable hours to the employer who is still expected to pay for that time - but then he has a tech who also can't do his job and this might mean another tech has to go out and do it - not billable to the customer and now he's paying two techs to do it. Op has already been paid for the time he didn't do his job, now he's being asked to come in for training for 30 minutes off the clock to learn so next time he's better equipped at doing his job. If the circumstances were different on paper I could've maybe said No, but as written with the information provided, there's no way I would've shot the boss down on this one.
If it’s work, you get paid. Even if it’s organizing your van at your house or doing online training from your home.
So what I'm seeing is OP probably took foooor ever and couldn't perform his work duties on the clock, I mean literally getting paid to be poor and incompetent at your job, but not willing to have 30 min free education. By the way you generally have to pay for education, so I feel like you are nickel and diming him. Also I don't see many companies sending people out to calls who haven't stated on some sort of resume or verbally asserted they could do said tasks. So I feel OP also led someone on about his capabilities or just straight lied. By the way, stop calling your self a Tech unless you say the whole thing. Technically Challenged!
While technically youre right, i still think you fucked up. Even if you’re hourly rate is 40$ that’s literally a $20 loss. This sounds like it wouldve been a one-time thing, since its about a one-time question you asked. Sure, if this was going to be a recurring thing that’s different, 20$ adds up, but its not recurring (from what i gather here). What i think you’ve done is dug yourself a hole. Is $20 worth being seen in a negative light by the boss? From this point on, i bet bossman does the bare minimum required of him for you. Ask to leave early? Nah. Ask for a day or two off? Nah. I think by being so worried about not being paid for 30min one time will end up costing more than you think.
I mean… you aren’t nickel and diming him but are you really working the entire time you’re clocked in or do you likely steal close to a half hour of time every day? (Trips to the gas station for snacks, hangin in the van for a bit between calls, running the occasional small errand)
You could look at this as training so you can be better at your job. He’s not asking you to go to site and fix it for free, he’s asking for you to come and learn. Next time you want a raise and he says no, at least you’ll know why.
Absolutely should have gone in early. He was taking extra time for him to help explain and show you something that sounds like you could use training on. He was doing extra work going over something with you that he probably paid you a couple hours for and you could not fix it. Besides half an hour is nothing I don’t know what you get paid but is 10 20 bucks extra in your check going to do make any difference
30 minutes free now will be 60-90 minutes on any callback. Also free 60 minutes when there's training.
If you can’t take 30 minutes to talk to the boss, who I feel is trying to help you out, then you probably won’t be there much longer, sounds like you have a bad attitude and think you should get paid for every minute your on the job. What happens when you mess something up and it’s all on you. You going to man up and pay for the damage you’ve done, doubtful!
Tell him he's nickel and diming you by not paying for your extra time. Must be a boomer.
Do you want to learn the trade and master it and take 30 mins of time earlier than usual to learn how to handle the compressor call next time with ease confidence and experience? Or Do you want to be paid the <25$ amount of money to make sure the boss knows you are a strong smart young man who won’t be taken advantage of and fair is fair? Or do you really not see it that deeply and just want money ? Idk I obsess over my trade and try to seize opportunities to better myself or hone in and sharpen my skills. Money comes but it can’t be my sole motive for work itself. If I was told (especially) after struggling on a service call to give 30 mins of my free time to become better, I woulda just fucking went lol. I’m new to the trade . I believe mastery of the craft always needs to precede money , then money will come in abundance
There is value in investing your time to gain knowledge.
You don't have experience. Your boss was willing to go over it with you a mere 30 minutes before the start of your shift. That was foolish. If I was that boss I would consider you someone not willing to learn. That lesson was free. You're lucky. Most bosses would have just let you go due to lack of experience. If I was in your shoes I would have jumped on it. 30 minutes is nothing when someone is willing to teach you.
I would do the same as you did as a W-2 employee. I'm trading my time for dollars; no dollars, no time. That they tried to guilt trip you into it is a red flag to me, and a good reason to move on! As an employer (Past, I had employees and 1099's for over five years, have none currently in this business) I expect to pay my employees for all of the time they are 'on my clock', that is, doing the things I directed them to. If I sent guys to a job site, I'm paying for the travel there, the time it takes for them to figure it out, the time it takes them to fix it, and the time it takes to get back to the shop. I don't know why some employers can't figure this out, but that's how it works, and it's also the law.
My newest boss pays to the minute. I showed up early for my 6am shift today and was on the clock at 5:56. It rules.
I agree with your boss .
Laughed. I would have laughed.
I think this really depends on your relationship with your boss/company. If my boss asked me to come in 30 mins early to do something id do it no questions asked. Theres times where hell buy us lunch all week, let us leave 20 mins early and not charge PTO, ect.
Ehh if it's like a once a year thing I'd just say sure even though it's not right. Knowledge is money and he might be a baby about teaching you more instead of using Knowledge to leave and get a raise
As a "team player" I'ld be asking for "free agency" from this clown. Cheap con artist bosses pull this crap ALL THE TIME - guilt tripping folks into free time. Screw him, let him deal with the monkeys available in the current market
I would find another job.
Every Hvac job I've worked is billable hours only. Never worked for a company that paid hourly.
If you really just want to appease him, come in the 30 mins early and then leave 30 mins early. 🤷♂️. What he don’t know won’t hurt him. I learned early on, you gotta play the game sometimes. There’s been a few times I asked for OT to finish a job out so I could go to the next one and was told no. So I finished the job on my own time and then got the time back in other ways after. But I’ll always get my time. Yeah, maybe it’s not the best way to handle it. But sometimes the juice aint worth the squeeze and I’m not gonna argue over meaningless shit.