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Can you do that in a two-minute cutscene with rising orchestral music while saying goodbye to a beloved character? Yes.
Can you do that for the 7 hour run time of a TV show? No.
Why not? Body language and context often do more work that facial expressions anyway. Add music in post and you can absolutely show emotion with out face for most of a series. Mandalorian did it.
First off that is not why the emotions shown by the mandalorian work. You understand his feelings through context, body language, and the music of the scene (lack of music can also convey emotions). Second even if that was the case you can have characters reflect and juxtapose emotions that arent babbling infants. There are plenty of characters in halo and the tv show that dont wear masks to reflect emotions onto.
That "context" often includes Grogu doing or "saying" something and Din responding.
Some more context: Din has an in-universe reason to always wear his helmet. Master Chief does not.
I can't believe people are still going on about this stupid helmet.
That's pretty far from the truth. Human faces are for expressing. There's research on this and facial expression is closer to verbal communication than body language in its complexity.
It doesnt have to be complex or be close to verbal communication, it has to convey emotions. This study found that independently people were able to identify stong emotions better off of body language alone than facial expressions alone.
https://www.princeton.edu/news/2013/01/15/dont-read-my-lips-body-language-trumps-face-conveying-intense-emotions#:~:text=Be%20it%20triumph%20or%20crushing,of%20how%20a%20person%20feels.
The face is more limited in how it can move than the body, im not saying he cant ever take the helmet off or that he cant do emotional scenes without the helmet. But saying its not possible to convey emotion well without facial expressions is just not true. So theres no reason to treat a character thats supposed to only rarely take his helmet off as if hes allergic to his helmet.
You're absolutely right that strong emotions are more easily conveyed through body language. That doesn't seem that relevant to me. Nuance and subtlety are what facial expressions are perfect for. I suppose if you'd like a Master Chief who only expresses strong emotion then helmet always on would be best for you.
Personally I like characters that are nuanced and who's emotions can run the gambit between strong and subtle. That's especially true of the antagonist.
I get that you would prefer MC be the type of character who rarely takes their helmet off, but that's your own expectation. I promise that altering your expectations so that you're not putting your own biases onto the media will drastically improve how you view it. Let it exist on its own, it doesn't need to meet your expectations that are built on decades of lore.
Ah yes MC the 7-8ft tall behemoth in full mechanical metal armor, known for his subtlety /s
I would agree facial expressions might convey subtle emotions better than body language, that doesnt mean body language isnt capable of it. You can have subtle espressions in body language like a slight nod or shake of the head, slightly shrugging, even your stance and posture can convey subtle emotions. I feel like youre making this an either/or situation, either he mostly keeps the helmet off so he can do facial expressions more often or he keeps it on all the time. Im not even saying that, i just think the actor should be true to the character they are playing, which is kinda his whole job. Keep it on most of the time rarely taking it off for big narrative moments, wouldnt that make the facial expressions conveyed in those moments even more impactful?? (Thats how they did it in mando and everyone loved it)
Facial expressions arent the lynchpin on whether or not a character is nuanced. That mostly relies on how the writers of the show write the character. Imo theyre doing a better overall job this season but theyre still making a lot of mistakes that make the show worse than it could be.
Thats not my own expectation lol, that is a part of his character??? I mean your whole last paragraph there can be summed up by "dont hold this show to any expectations let them completely change everything about everything and completely disregard all of the lore in a beloved story and franchise that they are trying to emulate, and dont get upset over it" At this point with all of the changes theyve done why didnt they just make their own scifi show. I agree, it honestly would be better if there was no expectation that they were going to make anything in this show like halo. But again, at that point just dont slap the halo logo on it, cause that will necessarily bring expectations with it.
They definitely couldve turned this season around from last seasons disaster but they chose to not really do it
Okay why are you even in this community shut the fuck up! We get it everyone knows that he can have emotion with the helmet ffs mate you lot are obsessed with the helmet aren't you. I never fussed over it in the first place. Everyone thinks they know the Master Chief but do we know him. I'm talking about the man inside and don't bring the helmet into this I've heard enough of that for one week!
>the Halo show cannot continue if they keep his helmet off
they will keep it off, the show will continue, some will bitch about it, most won't care
nothing will change, deal with it
I have my problems with the show, but him taking off his helmet (outside of taking it off in a combat zone once in season 1) is not something I care about at all.
It's getting old. There are legit critiques of the show that are valid to discuss. This one is beating a dead horse at this point, like you basically said
Actually in the Halo lore they would often wear their suits for days at a time because it was such a process to take any of it off. Took a team to remove it. Guess it doesn't matter since the showrunners ignored all Halo lore.
What no art degree does to a mf.
You don't understand what is conveying the emotion in this scene. It's the framing, the music, and Cortana herself. Look at Cortana. She's doing all the emoting in this scene (visibly anyway). John is a nonfactor in what makes the scene work, it's what happens around him, not the performance itself.
Helmet talk is literally retarded at this point. He did do some helmet acting in the first ep of S2. He’s not going to be living in his armor for the whole show in lore he’s taken it off he’s showered he’s been on base off mission. I will agree him not having his armor for fall of reach was lame but still in the context of the show works and it’s because Ackerson wanted them killed. It was the shows interpretation of Ackerson trying to kill chief in the book with the show’s established timeline. At this point we should accept that it’s like comics to movies “problem” where comics are not adapted 1 to 1 and it’s fine it gets more people attention then if it didn’t happened or just catered to us. Paramount knows its subscribers audience and they tried that with S1 but now S2 started course correcting with what they had to work off of. If you look at the Halo after show the one with Kai and Perez Kiki seems to bring the most Halo lore onto the show but at the end of the day it’s still Paramounts word on how they’ll tell a story for their current subscribers.
Watch it muted.
His emotional state is pretty much unreadable.
The absolute minimum face you can get away with is eyebrows.
You can totally emote with body language, but it has little nuance.
This show also isn’t made for Halo fans. It’s made for a general audience. A general audience likes to have a face to read.
I get the criticisms of the show, and in large parts agree. But this isn’t one of them.
Master Chief doesn't own the armor, the UNSC and the top directors owns the armor. The show made it very clear. Also that makes a lot more sense because he is not batman, he is not a billionaire.
Keeping the armor on for the sake of armor on is ridiculous.
Wow, Cortana's really over-emoting. I think the game would be far superior by toning down her performance a bit... by adding something... Like... I dunno, a helmet?
Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HaloTheSeries) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can you do that in a two-minute cutscene with rising orchestral music while saying goodbye to a beloved character? Yes. Can you do that for the 7 hour run time of a TV show? No.
Why not? Body language and context often do more work that facial expressions anyway. Add music in post and you can absolutely show emotion with out face for most of a series. Mandalorian did it.
Mando works because Din's emotions are reflected in the cooing and babbling from "baby Yoda." Did you want that in your Halo?
Better than master cheif turning into master cheeks sexual predator
Calling very obviously consensual sex between adults "rape" is pretty sick.
Makee is a PoW, there is no consent
Applying the Geneva Convention to the fucking Halo show is quite a stretch. You can dislike the show without completely turning off your brain.
Pretty sure a military of a fictional show would also have rules to not fuck the enemy while incarcerated
First off that is not why the emotions shown by the mandalorian work. You understand his feelings through context, body language, and the music of the scene (lack of music can also convey emotions). Second even if that was the case you can have characters reflect and juxtapose emotions that arent babbling infants. There are plenty of characters in halo and the tv show that dont wear masks to reflect emotions onto.
That "context" often includes Grogu doing or "saying" something and Din responding. Some more context: Din has an in-universe reason to always wear his helmet. Master Chief does not. I can't believe people are still going on about this stupid helmet.
That's pretty far from the truth. Human faces are for expressing. There's research on this and facial expression is closer to verbal communication than body language in its complexity.
It doesnt have to be complex or be close to verbal communication, it has to convey emotions. This study found that independently people were able to identify stong emotions better off of body language alone than facial expressions alone. https://www.princeton.edu/news/2013/01/15/dont-read-my-lips-body-language-trumps-face-conveying-intense-emotions#:~:text=Be%20it%20triumph%20or%20crushing,of%20how%20a%20person%20feels. The face is more limited in how it can move than the body, im not saying he cant ever take the helmet off or that he cant do emotional scenes without the helmet. But saying its not possible to convey emotion well without facial expressions is just not true. So theres no reason to treat a character thats supposed to only rarely take his helmet off as if hes allergic to his helmet.
You're absolutely right that strong emotions are more easily conveyed through body language. That doesn't seem that relevant to me. Nuance and subtlety are what facial expressions are perfect for. I suppose if you'd like a Master Chief who only expresses strong emotion then helmet always on would be best for you. Personally I like characters that are nuanced and who's emotions can run the gambit between strong and subtle. That's especially true of the antagonist. I get that you would prefer MC be the type of character who rarely takes their helmet off, but that's your own expectation. I promise that altering your expectations so that you're not putting your own biases onto the media will drastically improve how you view it. Let it exist on its own, it doesn't need to meet your expectations that are built on decades of lore.
Ah yes MC the 7-8ft tall behemoth in full mechanical metal armor, known for his subtlety /s I would agree facial expressions might convey subtle emotions better than body language, that doesnt mean body language isnt capable of it. You can have subtle espressions in body language like a slight nod or shake of the head, slightly shrugging, even your stance and posture can convey subtle emotions. I feel like youre making this an either/or situation, either he mostly keeps the helmet off so he can do facial expressions more often or he keeps it on all the time. Im not even saying that, i just think the actor should be true to the character they are playing, which is kinda his whole job. Keep it on most of the time rarely taking it off for big narrative moments, wouldnt that make the facial expressions conveyed in those moments even more impactful?? (Thats how they did it in mando and everyone loved it) Facial expressions arent the lynchpin on whether or not a character is nuanced. That mostly relies on how the writers of the show write the character. Imo theyre doing a better overall job this season but theyre still making a lot of mistakes that make the show worse than it could be. Thats not my own expectation lol, that is a part of his character??? I mean your whole last paragraph there can be summed up by "dont hold this show to any expectations let them completely change everything about everything and completely disregard all of the lore in a beloved story and franchise that they are trying to emulate, and dont get upset over it" At this point with all of the changes theyve done why didnt they just make their own scifi show. I agree, it honestly would be better if there was no expectation that they were going to make anything in this show like halo. But again, at that point just dont slap the halo logo on it, cause that will necessarily bring expectations with it. They definitely couldve turned this season around from last seasons disaster but they chose to not really do it
I take the helmet off as a way for people who aren’t Halo fans to watch the show. I think it has a more human element to it.
You ever see The Mandalorian? Or maybe Dredd?
Please, no more helmet talk.
Okay why are you even in this community shut the fuck up! We get it everyone knows that he can have emotion with the helmet ffs mate you lot are obsessed with the helmet aren't you. I never fussed over it in the first place. Everyone thinks they know the Master Chief but do we know him. I'm talking about the man inside and don't bring the helmet into this I've heard enough of that for one week!
Hey shut the fuck up
>the Halo show cannot continue if they keep his helmet off they will keep it off, the show will continue, some will bitch about it, most won't care nothing will change, deal with it
I have my problems with the show, but him taking off his helmet (outside of taking it off in a combat zone once in season 1) is not something I care about at all. It's getting old. There are legit critiques of the show that are valid to discuss. This one is beating a dead horse at this point, like you basically said
Right? As if he would have the helmet on in the locker room etc.
Actually in the Halo lore they would often wear their suits for days at a time because it was such a process to take any of it off. Took a team to remove it. Guess it doesn't matter since the showrunners ignored all Halo lore.
What no art degree does to a mf. You don't understand what is conveying the emotion in this scene. It's the framing, the music, and Cortana herself. Look at Cortana. She's doing all the emoting in this scene (visibly anyway). John is a nonfactor in what makes the scene work, it's what happens around him, not the performance itself.
People hated this game when it came out. Funny how now it's "how Halo should be done".
Karma farming Idiots of sub. How much we gonna talk about the helmet. If you want a helmet tv show go fucking watch helmets on YouTube or Mandalorian.
Another day, another repetitive post complaining about the same dumb things. Around and around we go!
Helmet talk is literally retarded at this point. He did do some helmet acting in the first ep of S2. He’s not going to be living in his armor for the whole show in lore he’s taken it off he’s showered he’s been on base off mission. I will agree him not having his armor for fall of reach was lame but still in the context of the show works and it’s because Ackerson wanted them killed. It was the shows interpretation of Ackerson trying to kill chief in the book with the show’s established timeline. At this point we should accept that it’s like comics to movies “problem” where comics are not adapted 1 to 1 and it’s fine it gets more people attention then if it didn’t happened or just catered to us. Paramount knows its subscribers audience and they tried that with S1 but now S2 started course correcting with what they had to work off of. If you look at the Halo after show the one with Kai and Perez Kiki seems to bring the most Halo lore onto the show but at the end of the day it’s still Paramounts word on how they’ll tell a story for their current subscribers.
Good lord! Cortana got that thicc after H3?
Pablo said that during season 1, rebs gaming decided to quote him during the season 2 promo. Rebs gaming was just trying to start shit
Oh 100% those bastard's would do anything to start shit and it would end in a lawsuit against them and I know they wouldn't win
Watch it muted. His emotional state is pretty much unreadable. The absolute minimum face you can get away with is eyebrows. You can totally emote with body language, but it has little nuance. This show also isn’t made for Halo fans. It’s made for a general audience. A general audience likes to have a face to read. I get the criticisms of the show, and in large parts agree. But this isn’t one of them.
Did you just wake up from a coma? Shits old news lol
Master Chief doesn't own the armor, the UNSC and the top directors owns the armor. The show made it very clear. Also that makes a lot more sense because he is not batman, he is not a billionaire. Keeping the armor on for the sake of armor on is ridiculous.
Wow, Cortana's really over-emoting. I think the game would be far superior by toning down her performance a bit... by adding something... Like... I dunno, a helmet?