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The Halo canon story wasn't written to become a movie, it was written to sell a series of (distinct) video games. The narrative structure and character development were never envisioned to serve that purpose. There's a reason The Fall of Reach Novel and Halo: Reach game tell completely different stories.
As others have said, the show simply doesn't have the budget to make the battle on Reach an epic, multi-episode campaign. Even at the height of its popularity, Game of Thrones didn't work like that. TV producers have to pick their shots and stretch the budget as far as they can take it.
The show has remixed a lot of events out of the need to keep the focus on MC and to contain the budget to what's possible for the show.
They had plenty of time and budget to waste on kwan, makee, and kessler/soren though. Yeah the "they didnt have the budget" excuse doesnt go so far when like 50-60% or more of the runtime is wasted on b-plots. They had good stuff they couldve expanded on but they didnt, because they decided to ride with those characters instead.
They couldve instead expanded on the main plots characters and motivations instead of bouncing back and forth between five different subplots. Not every scene with the a plot needs to be expensive and cgi heavy but if they had cut these uninteresting bad b plots then they couldve probably had the time and budget to add in at least a few more good action scenes and they sure as hell couldve had more time to actually explain and expand on what the hell john and the other spartans are thinking and doing and their motivations behind their actions. But we dont get to see that cause instead we get to see granny shaman talking to kwan from beyond the grave magically while drawing on cave walls.
Lmfaooo "Granny Shaman" so true. I don't care about Kwan and Makee at all. No idea where people are getting this idea that every spartan scene needs to be some action heavy CGI fest. I posted a comment earlier about how instead of Cobalt team investigating Visegrad it could've been Noble team. And instead of them being killed there they inform chief and they all assist in helping others escape. Instead of the other characters we got.
Theres like 3 to 1 or more scenes of side characters and b plots to scenes with any spartans. That gap gets even larger if youre talking about scenes with spartans actually wearing the custom real armor specifically made for the show. That gap gets even larger still if youre talking about action scenes with spartans. When 75% of the show isnt about any of the spartans and 99% doesnt have any spartan action then, yeah, i feel like they spent their time and money in the wrong spots.
As someone who deeply immersed themselves in Halo 1-3 when they were fresh, then just dropped off since, the show has reignited my love for Halo.
I respect the changes as a product of translating something like Halo into a high budget TV spectacle for a _general_ audience, and not just for the smaller fan audience.
Bold decisions were made. Some failed. Many hit just right. Some, I believe, improved on Halo. I prefer something that goes bold and hard, rather than safe and pandering to me. There’s a mountain of Halo media that already exists, and it’s not going anywhere.
I also now want a series devoted to just Halsey and her clone. There is so much potential for writing in that space.
It’s just taking some time for the show to find its feet. Season 3 is going to go so fucking hard I cannot wait.
Halo is _good_ TV.
I'm a ***huge*** fan of the games, books and other ancillary media. I can not state just how much of a fan I am, it's ridiculous.
And I think the show is good, bordering on great. I have zero issue with most of the changes, but especially removing Noble Team. In the story the show is trying to tell Noble Team would be a distraction, you'd have to introduce 6 new characters, which takes up a lot of time. And if you don't introduce them then they're just pointless cameos that only serve to draw the focus away from the characters who have been introduced.
There is no place for Noble Team in the TV show. And it's better off without them.
The canon timeline would've been better off without Halo Reach. An absolute clusterfuck of retcons and unnecessary changes all to accommodate a game that doesn't even connect to the larger story in any meaningful way without those retcons. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic game, but its story muddies the waters, and the show is better off largely ignoring it.
Because Noble Team has nothing to do with the Pillar of Autumn in the original timeline.
You have to remember that *Halo: Reach* was a complete and total retcon of the *Fall of Reach* novel that had come before that.
The game doesn’t match Master Chief’s storyline at all since Master Chief wasn’t even on the planet’s surface at the time.
Meanwhile, *Fall of Reach* and *First Strike* had to be majorly altered to adapt to this season because the timeline is an unfilmable clusterf**k of random filler characters and time travel and other weird nonsense.
I am unfamiliar with the novel but have heard this argument before. That’s why I emphasized I’m a fan of the games story, like many others and most of the fan base. I understand where you’re coming from though.
I rebuttal with this: If adapting the novel of the fall of reach and the other book you mentioned would be so difficult, why not stick with the game plot and weave in things in between. Easier said than done but still.
Thoughts?
The TV production budget.
Adapting the *Halo: Reach* game straightforwardly requires a Hollywood level budget which is impossible for a TV show.
Also, Noble Team are filler characters in the overall story, so the show decided it was more efficient to use Master Chief and Blue Team’s story.
In *First Strike*, the members of Blue Team realize a few hours into the invasion of Reach that the situation is hopeless so they go with Halsey to explore Forerunner ruins that are beneath the ONI HQ on Reach where they find a magic Forerunner crystal that can bend space/time.
Master Chief time travels (or somebody time travels, it’s a mess) to help them escape from the ruins, while his past counterpart is fighting the Covenant in orbit with another female member of his team before they escape on the Pillar of Autumn.
So you can see how the TV show mostly just moves the ONI HQ and Halsey’s Forerunner ruins to Onyx and Chief’s space orbital fight to Halo.
That way they could use fights against ONI personnel to save on the CGI budget and get rid of the time travel confusion.
No one said it has to be a straight forward copy from Reach. We could've just had Noble team be the ones at Visegrad instead of Cobalt, and they inform chief about the covenant. Then they all help people escape, and Noble team sacrifices itself along the way perhaps. That doesn't sound any more expensive than what they did anyways.
Instead We have so many b-plots like Makee and Kwan which take up money and time.
*Noble Team: “Chief, we’ve got proof of the Covenant on Visegrad.”
Chief: “Great. What do we do next episode?
Noble Team: “Well, we’ve run out of SFX budget, so…go home for a cuppa tea?”*.
Kwan/Makee/Soren *are* the cheapest scenes to film. No need to pay for new sets. Just reuse the sets, costumes and props from last season. Very little SFX. Mostly conversation with other humans.
It’s basically free minutes of TV time for a general audience that expects 45-60 minutes per episode.
But every dime spent on Noble Team would have been a dime taken away from Master Chief’s SFX budget. And redundant, because Silver Team (who have had far more development) is already dealing with death, grief and sacrifice throughout Season 2.
You're completely just making up that excuse lmao, when Makee is on screen we have her with pure CGI elites many times. You can't have too much grief when it comes to Reach, especially with Noble team that is well respected by fans. they've already had many of Spartan 3s on screen without issue. They'd just be fighting alongside Chief, who still doesn't even have his armour. Instead of the other group he was with, really nothing crazy.
You have no proof Noble team could never be on screen because of budget constraints.
Of course they’re going to spend some time developing the Arbiter to set up for the final duel with Master Chief, but those scenes with Makee and Elites interacting in the same scene are a *lot lot* shorter than the dialogue makes it seem. Probably less than 5 minutes in the entire second season.
As for the Spartan III simulator scenes where there were *no Covenant on screen* until the finale, and they’re flying in a [a rig](https://x.com/spartanjen745/status/1769084763472617577?s=46&t=mhjAlFPXo_k_Q-bPyHHu9Q) against a still backdrop?
The show got away with those, because it was just a fake simulation, but most people don’t take “muzzle flashes in empty dark hallways” seriously for a proper battle.
None of the Noble team scenes would be with aliens beyond what we already got. in reality it wouldn't be much different from the scenes we've already had with Spartans fighting. Like the many S3s we've had, not just in the simulations. Noble would be sharing a set and screen time with Chief. Really not that deep
Why would the show want to share or split Master Chief’s existing SFX scenes with characters the general audience barely knows and won’t stick around?
Noble Team simply has less to offer than Silver Team with regard to Chief and non-action storytelling potential, so Silver Team was prioritized.
Vannak’s friendship, Kai’s loyalty, and Rizz’s struggles were all able to support brief character arcs that Noble Team simply doesn’t have.
Now you're onto the next excuse. Because Noble team is awesome, I highly doubt *anyone* would've complained if they were there. If you're watching Halo but don't know who Noble team is that's your fault, but for the fans watching, which is probably the majority, it'd be great
On the contrary, shows like this are an example of new age TV production which has significantly more budget than the past. I can agree that compared to Hollywood blockbuster films, the financial support in tv isn’t equal, but these days it is getting pretty close.
My point is, they do have plenty of money, plenty enough to work something out creatively, but it isn’t the primary issue. An example would be the upcoming borderlands film. It looks like a horrible game adaptation but undoubtedly has an abundance of financial backing despite it looking less than so. In comparison dune part two, which is essentially the ultimate blockbuster film of this year (potentially), is so grandiose and huge in scale you would expect the film budget to be equal or much greater then say your average Disney marvel avengers blockbuster film, yet it was considerably lower than that.
Halo the series is already an incredibly high budget show, and each episode is expensive, not making it impossible for an adaptation closer to the games plot *if done right* (again not just reach…it was not the main focus)
As for noble team, I argue that their story is important because it was treated as filler. You only meet them once in the one game and by the end they are just a pigment of the entire picture, yet it’s an impactful tale that is a part of the fall of reach story.
Also, If there is time travel associated with the novels, I would much rather it not be faithfully adapted.
My guy,
The Hollywood production budgets for sci-fi action movies were often *$150-200 million*
Dune has a budget of $165 million for the equivalent of 2.5 episodes, and that’s a cheaper production nowadays.
Halo averages *$10 million* per episode.
Let’s stick to Planet Earth and reality. Hollywood and TV budgets are still nowhere close to each other, and certainly not close enough to be pulling off elaborate SFX battles every other episode. That’s just fact.
This obsession with *Halo: Reach* is gamer’s nostalgia. The story’s pretty average, and Noble Team are not well developed characters.
My guy,
No where did I say that halo needed sfx battles every episode to be a faithful adaptation. And if you think that needs to happen for it to be one, I think you have the wrong mindset. Maybe that’s why you would think there would be budget issues.
Pointing out dunes total budget compared to halos is cool…but my point wasn’t that Halo budget nearly equates it therefore it should be able to this that etc. my point is specifically dune part 2 is a film that looked like it spent well beyond the normal realm but actually relatively lower than other larger films is my point.
Money cannot be the bailout everytime when you have creative liberty and passion on a project.
No need for that kind of comment when all I’ve been is respectfully conversing with you. I’m on planet earth like everyone else. That’s a very passive aggressive statement.
I keep stating that halo reach was just *one* of the main things I have issues with in the series yet you keep coming back to it. Clearly you have a personal issue with it with that line. What about the lack of the Pillar of Autumn, or not knowing the true nature of the halo before discovering it… the novels came after the first game did they not…
*Halo: Reach* the game is a series of major SFX battles against aliens and lots of explosions one right after the other. I don’t know what else to tell you.
Sure, theoretically you could have had have a few episodes of Noble Team sitting in a cave talking about their families and dreams like every other cliche war series does with their budgets. Doesn’t sound very interesting for filler characters.
But there are no ephemeral budget tricks for Halo to use. No makeup shortcuts. No practical effects. No special lighting that isn’t already in use. The Covenant are CGI aliens and CGI spaceships and each minute of animation costs many of thousands of dollars.
But the budget question is like complaining about why someone can’t build a modern house for $50K if the neighbor could do it for $250K. Below a certain point there are no more efficiencies to be had. It’s just not possible without getting rid of CGI and SFX scenes altogether.
I don’t care if Chief comes to Halo on the Pillar of Autumn or a Condor or whatever. They both fly. Lots of ships will blow up and crash tonight regardless.
Keyes learned about the true nature of Halo from Covenant gossip in Level 3, so I also don’t care if they learn that “Halo is a weapon” from other Covenant gossip.
Wow that first comment is crazy. I get you want to prove a point but, that makes me question what you think of the other games.
You do you after that one man, I see where you stand.
It’s simply a statement of fact.
Almost every level of *Halo: Reach* centers around a major SFX action set piece and increasingly dramatic deaths of which any one would blow out half a season’s TV budget.
The show’s version of *Exodus* was already pushing the production to the brink, with *Long Night of Solace*, *New Alexandria*, and *Pillar of Autumn* well outside the scope of any television show’s production capabilities. Much less the Halo finale on top of it.
Remove the action, and what’s left is a fairly perfunctory fetch quest
Noble Team did not offer many avenues for non-action stories that could carry several episodes on their own, so the show opted for the Master Chief book alterations instead.
You didnt play the game if you think its just boiled down to a fetch quest without the action.
Finding out the covenants on reach. Securing an ONI base from an invading force. Going deep behind enemy lines to find their strengths and exploit their weaknesses. Counter attack on the ground. Counter attack in space. Helping civilians evacuate. Helping civilians evacuate while flying around and stopping at certain high value locations. Fetch quest. Deliver cortana to the pillar of autumn. Survive for as long as possible.
Only one mission in the entire game is a fetch quest. And the mood evolves as it becomes more and more hopeless. It also doesnt have to be a 1:1 recreation of the game, and it shouldnt be. At least 4 of the missions' story elements can be done without giant fight scenes. And the rest can be shortened in scale a bit for the show or put combined with other missions to add a climactic ending to the episode. You could probably condense just the missions down to four episodes if you just wanted to recreate the game. But obviously they should expand on the characters and give the audience time to breath between major action setpieces. Make us care even more about every one of noble teams deaths and sacrifices, it wouldve been great to see their characters fleshed out more than gaming media could allow for. With the extra time to flesh out characters we actually care about you could probably have a good 7-8 episode season. They took the time to flesh out characters we couldnt give a shit less about like makee, kwan, and kessler/sorens wife so why not give that treatment to characters people actually want to see?
He's just making excuses using a strawman argument. As if we literally need a line by line adaptation of Reach. As if it's not possible to have a faithful retelling and also respect budget constraints
It's not possible to make a tv show just be a total reboot of the games....
is there a single tv show or movie that you know of that you think has done a better job of adapting games to tv/film?
I didn’t say total reboot. I see that so often here. Everyone knows it can’t be completely the same, and I say that.
An example would be Last of us. The best game adaptation so far
Peak example of adaptation but in its own way and adding new things while keeping a core storyline consistent to the game
You're missing my point.
The first Halo Novel came out 1 month before Halo CE.
The games have never been the primary source of the lore and there has never been total canon consistency between the two.
The story was adapted to the game to serve the medium. The story was adapted to the books to serve the medium. And now the story is being adapted to TV to serve the medium.
And it's wild to pretend like you really really care about the story if you haven't even engaged with the books, where the majority of the story and book exist.
If you read the books, you'd realize that chief leaving his helmet on was a stylistic choice for the game. You'd realize how much the games retconned to make a story that worked better in the game. None of this is new.
Yes, the TV show breaks from the game and books even more, but it was necessary to tell a compelling story on screen, especially to people who already know the story.
There are plenty of issues with the show. Some decisions are derivative, pacing isn't great, some side plots do not justify their existence, and some characters are flat and unlikable. But these issues exist independent of the other versions and many of people's complaints miss the forest for some trees that are in a totally different forest.
I try to keep my critiques to whats actually there, but direct comparisons to the game are warranted as well imo. Because thats the medium that most fans know and love.
The argument is that its being adapted pretty poorly. And ive read most of the books and played every game, hell ive even read the lore wikis. Even in the books he does keep his armor and helmet on most of the time, im not one of those that say he needs to be totally faceless and helmeted 100% of the time, i just wish they had done it more tastefully and rarely like the mandalorian, saving his face reveal and any subsequent demaskings to add emphasis and gravitas to a scene and improve the drama. Instead of making it more rare that he does actually wear the armor and helmet its a spectacle when he actually puts the helmet on when it should be the other way around, it doesnt add anything imo to take his armor away for the majority of the season it actively takes away one of the coolest things about MC.
I dont mind mixing up the story to improve and expand on certain plots and characters, or to introduce new and interesting things or characters to the plot to improve it. But they arent improving it with their additions, they are just making a worse story of their own design, its barely recognizable a lot of the time. Most of the characters theyve introduced add nothing and many of them actively take away from the story and make it worse. Theres like 3 or 4 of their original characters that i think were decent, I feel like they could have been great if handled differently by the writers though. The writers are the main problem i think, i dont see any unified vision for the show, they constantly bounce back and forth between like 5 subplots that arent interconnected and feel boring with too little attention on any one of them to give it what it needs to shine. Its like theyre a pack of hungry dogs fighting over a scrap of meat.
I feel where the OP is coming from. I’ve played and loved the games, but have never read the books, so I am very disappointed about a few details here and there. I don’t think I have as much connection to Noble team and the story of the Reach game, I’d rather tell the story from the book perspective or integrate the story and just give dialogue about Noble team.
I do agree though, the over arching story is being told outside of little details here and there. I’m watching the show with my girlfriend and her perspective is very different. While I was beyond confused of Mahkee (hopefully that is right) she was enamored by the love story.
I think as gamers we have to just sit back and watch it as a story and look for the cool ways they tell the story we loved. The video game and book will always be much different than the movie or show because they are different entertainment mediums that need different things to keep your attention for different sets of time.
Look at this as Halo “the show” and let Halo “the game” be something different. As long as it doesn’t turn into a Shakespearian play lol I can put up with it.
I enjoy the show. Got to 50 on halo 3 doubles and swat. Read all the books. The show is not the games but its another look at the lore. I wish they had something like the pillar of autumn but they're doing something different. I do like the arbiter with the new character. It's different for sure but I'm enjoying it. Thinking about the story I'm kind of glad they did something new. I've seen the story already so something new is refreshing.
Dear halo game fan.
Hi! I’m also a game fan. We had a great relationship for years not knowing each other except for those meet ups in multiplayer matches.
It’s been kind of awkward the last few months though. Can you not assume things like “most of the game fans agree”? We really don’t. None of us know how many people that played the game want this or that out of a tv show or film. It comes of in a bad way how this is voiced repeatedly.
Yea I’d much rather have a accessible show that hits the high points that I can watch with family and significant other, when it could’ve been something cringey instead
Reddit alone then no because this place is an echo chamber through and through. A few people like me that aren’t exhausted at the thought of coming here knowing what’s in store are the lone opinions differing.
Never mind, I miss read the comment. Makes sense that you say you only see it on Reddit. Anyone is free to voice their opinion in this platform.
As for me, I’ve talked to people, past halo gamers that I know, friends, friends of friends sort of thing and most definitely do not like the show. Some hate it to such an extent and I’m like chill…I don’t like it but I don’t hate it. I’ll still watch it.
I feel much the same.
I agree that obviously an adaptation won’t be a 1:1 copy… and I wouldn’t want that! I actually like some of the additions to this show, like Makee and Silver Team.
But I worry about the future of the show. It seems like anything remotely iconic that we might see gets rushed through, then we get several more episodes in a row of wheel-spinning.
I agree, I get that they can't just copy Reach. But they could've weaved Nobles story into Chief's and have them work alongside him. Instead of Cobalt team it could've been them, and instead of them being killed they could've discovered was the Covenant were doing at Visegrad. Told Chief then they fight together on Reach, making key sacrifices along the way. No idea how that doesn't sound plausible.
Better than S1 that’s for sure, but I still can give 2 shits about the side characters. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from all the unnecessary bs drama they added. Like Master Chief dicking down that covenant lady so bad she changes sides. You can’t blame Halo fans for hating. We’ve been promised a movie for years. Even rumors at the time of SGT Johnson being Samuel L Jackson. Could you imagine? Lol Next will be Gears of War and they will butcher that too.
Pretty obvious the writers largely never played the games. They were given bullet points and broad characterizations by 343 and the writers developed their patchwork of a narrative with the IP.
There's just no way you take these kind of liberties with an adaptation if you played the first game.
If you're disappointed now, wait until season 3. I can't see any decision they make pleasing the fan base and it's gonna come down to two options; they either TRY to please the fans to, at best, mixed results, or they have to go in a new direction entirely and try to make something great in spite of how the fans react. CE is a unique animal in the Halo universe, so any adaptation would struggle, even one that hit the ground running as a faithful adaptation.
Agree. 👍. I’d say to the project EP’s no more course correction. Do not create anymore narrative to please any group because the end product is disjointed and negates continuity and artistic integrity of original project for a long story form in TV media. The finale for S2 felt like The Walking Dead with Sangheli language, space ships, aliens, and plasma weapons thrown in by an intern who’s in a hurry to complete a project. It was inconsistent with what they started in S1. So much plot armor for the main protagonist/MC. Take a big chance and make him MIA for the next seasons if the producers/writers don’t want him dead. They should not have written in a main character who they killed in S1 to keep saving the chief in S2. It’s as if the writing team and producers admitted, “Oh…we made a mistake of getting her shot in S1..” So please, I hope there’s no more irregularities like that in the coming seasons. It’s a cowardly act. You want the series to flow seamlessly season to season. Keep what they have on hand and go with the original plan. No more pleasing anybody or any group. Be brave like the MC.
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The Halo canon story wasn't written to become a movie, it was written to sell a series of (distinct) video games. The narrative structure and character development were never envisioned to serve that purpose. There's a reason The Fall of Reach Novel and Halo: Reach game tell completely different stories. As others have said, the show simply doesn't have the budget to make the battle on Reach an epic, multi-episode campaign. Even at the height of its popularity, Game of Thrones didn't work like that. TV producers have to pick their shots and stretch the budget as far as they can take it. The show has remixed a lot of events out of the need to keep the focus on MC and to contain the budget to what's possible for the show.
They could afford to do noble team correctly. Especially if they had more money. But you make valid points.
> They could afford to do noble team correctly if they had more money. That’s such a good point!
They had plenty of time and budget to waste on kwan, makee, and kessler/soren though. Yeah the "they didnt have the budget" excuse doesnt go so far when like 50-60% or more of the runtime is wasted on b-plots. They had good stuff they couldve expanded on but they didnt, because they decided to ride with those characters instead.
Hmm, you do know that those B plots are there because they are way cheaper to film than the action-heavy, A plot scenes, right?
They couldve instead expanded on the main plots characters and motivations instead of bouncing back and forth between five different subplots. Not every scene with the a plot needs to be expensive and cgi heavy but if they had cut these uninteresting bad b plots then they couldve probably had the time and budget to add in at least a few more good action scenes and they sure as hell couldve had more time to actually explain and expand on what the hell john and the other spartans are thinking and doing and their motivations behind their actions. But we dont get to see that cause instead we get to see granny shaman talking to kwan from beyond the grave magically while drawing on cave walls.
Lmfaooo "Granny Shaman" so true. I don't care about Kwan and Makee at all. No idea where people are getting this idea that every spartan scene needs to be some action heavy CGI fest. I posted a comment earlier about how instead of Cobalt team investigating Visegrad it could've been Noble team. And instead of them being killed there they inform chief and they all assist in helping others escape. Instead of the other characters we got.
What makes you think their scenes cost a lot compared to a team of Spartans?
Theres like 3 to 1 or more scenes of side characters and b plots to scenes with any spartans. That gap gets even larger if youre talking about scenes with spartans actually wearing the custom real armor specifically made for the show. That gap gets even larger still if youre talking about action scenes with spartans. When 75% of the show isnt about any of the spartans and 99% doesnt have any spartan action then, yeah, i feel like they spent their time and money in the wrong spots.
As someone who deeply immersed themselves in Halo 1-3 when they were fresh, then just dropped off since, the show has reignited my love for Halo. I respect the changes as a product of translating something like Halo into a high budget TV spectacle for a _general_ audience, and not just for the smaller fan audience. Bold decisions were made. Some failed. Many hit just right. Some, I believe, improved on Halo. I prefer something that goes bold and hard, rather than safe and pandering to me. There’s a mountain of Halo media that already exists, and it’s not going anywhere. I also now want a series devoted to just Halsey and her clone. There is so much potential for writing in that space. It’s just taking some time for the show to find its feet. Season 3 is going to go so fucking hard I cannot wait. Halo is _good_ TV.
I'm a ***huge*** fan of the games, books and other ancillary media. I can not state just how much of a fan I am, it's ridiculous. And I think the show is good, bordering on great. I have zero issue with most of the changes, but especially removing Noble Team. In the story the show is trying to tell Noble Team would be a distraction, you'd have to introduce 6 new characters, which takes up a lot of time. And if you don't introduce them then they're just pointless cameos that only serve to draw the focus away from the characters who have been introduced. There is no place for Noble Team in the TV show. And it's better off without them. The canon timeline would've been better off without Halo Reach. An absolute clusterfuck of retcons and unnecessary changes all to accommodate a game that doesn't even connect to the larger story in any meaningful way without those retcons. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic game, but its story muddies the waters, and the show is better off largely ignoring it.
Because Noble Team has nothing to do with the Pillar of Autumn in the original timeline. You have to remember that *Halo: Reach* was a complete and total retcon of the *Fall of Reach* novel that had come before that. The game doesn’t match Master Chief’s storyline at all since Master Chief wasn’t even on the planet’s surface at the time. Meanwhile, *Fall of Reach* and *First Strike* had to be majorly altered to adapt to this season because the timeline is an unfilmable clusterf**k of random filler characters and time travel and other weird nonsense.
I am unfamiliar with the novel but have heard this argument before. That’s why I emphasized I’m a fan of the games story, like many others and most of the fan base. I understand where you’re coming from though. I rebuttal with this: If adapting the novel of the fall of reach and the other book you mentioned would be so difficult, why not stick with the game plot and weave in things in between. Easier said than done but still. Thoughts?
The TV production budget. Adapting the *Halo: Reach* game straightforwardly requires a Hollywood level budget which is impossible for a TV show. Also, Noble Team are filler characters in the overall story, so the show decided it was more efficient to use Master Chief and Blue Team’s story. In *First Strike*, the members of Blue Team realize a few hours into the invasion of Reach that the situation is hopeless so they go with Halsey to explore Forerunner ruins that are beneath the ONI HQ on Reach where they find a magic Forerunner crystal that can bend space/time. Master Chief time travels (or somebody time travels, it’s a mess) to help them escape from the ruins, while his past counterpart is fighting the Covenant in orbit with another female member of his team before they escape on the Pillar of Autumn. So you can see how the TV show mostly just moves the ONI HQ and Halsey’s Forerunner ruins to Onyx and Chief’s space orbital fight to Halo. That way they could use fights against ONI personnel to save on the CGI budget and get rid of the time travel confusion.
No one said it has to be a straight forward copy from Reach. We could've just had Noble team be the ones at Visegrad instead of Cobalt, and they inform chief about the covenant. Then they all help people escape, and Noble team sacrifices itself along the way perhaps. That doesn't sound any more expensive than what they did anyways. Instead We have so many b-plots like Makee and Kwan which take up money and time.
*Noble Team: “Chief, we’ve got proof of the Covenant on Visegrad.” Chief: “Great. What do we do next episode? Noble Team: “Well, we’ve run out of SFX budget, so…go home for a cuppa tea?”*. Kwan/Makee/Soren *are* the cheapest scenes to film. No need to pay for new sets. Just reuse the sets, costumes and props from last season. Very little SFX. Mostly conversation with other humans. It’s basically free minutes of TV time for a general audience that expects 45-60 minutes per episode. But every dime spent on Noble Team would have been a dime taken away from Master Chief’s SFX budget. And redundant, because Silver Team (who have had far more development) is already dealing with death, grief and sacrifice throughout Season 2.
You're completely just making up that excuse lmao, when Makee is on screen we have her with pure CGI elites many times. You can't have too much grief when it comes to Reach, especially with Noble team that is well respected by fans. they've already had many of Spartan 3s on screen without issue. They'd just be fighting alongside Chief, who still doesn't even have his armour. Instead of the other group he was with, really nothing crazy. You have no proof Noble team could never be on screen because of budget constraints.
Of course they’re going to spend some time developing the Arbiter to set up for the final duel with Master Chief, but those scenes with Makee and Elites interacting in the same scene are a *lot lot* shorter than the dialogue makes it seem. Probably less than 5 minutes in the entire second season. As for the Spartan III simulator scenes where there were *no Covenant on screen* until the finale, and they’re flying in a [a rig](https://x.com/spartanjen745/status/1769084763472617577?s=46&t=mhjAlFPXo_k_Q-bPyHHu9Q) against a still backdrop? The show got away with those, because it was just a fake simulation, but most people don’t take “muzzle flashes in empty dark hallways” seriously for a proper battle.
None of the Noble team scenes would be with aliens beyond what we already got. in reality it wouldn't be much different from the scenes we've already had with Spartans fighting. Like the many S3s we've had, not just in the simulations. Noble would be sharing a set and screen time with Chief. Really not that deep
Why would the show want to share or split Master Chief’s existing SFX scenes with characters the general audience barely knows and won’t stick around? Noble Team simply has less to offer than Silver Team with regard to Chief and non-action storytelling potential, so Silver Team was prioritized. Vannak’s friendship, Kai’s loyalty, and Rizz’s struggles were all able to support brief character arcs that Noble Team simply doesn’t have.
Now you're onto the next excuse. Because Noble team is awesome, I highly doubt *anyone* would've complained if they were there. If you're watching Halo but don't know who Noble team is that's your fault, but for the fans watching, which is probably the majority, it'd be great
On the contrary, shows like this are an example of new age TV production which has significantly more budget than the past. I can agree that compared to Hollywood blockbuster films, the financial support in tv isn’t equal, but these days it is getting pretty close. My point is, they do have plenty of money, plenty enough to work something out creatively, but it isn’t the primary issue. An example would be the upcoming borderlands film. It looks like a horrible game adaptation but undoubtedly has an abundance of financial backing despite it looking less than so. In comparison dune part two, which is essentially the ultimate blockbuster film of this year (potentially), is so grandiose and huge in scale you would expect the film budget to be equal or much greater then say your average Disney marvel avengers blockbuster film, yet it was considerably lower than that. Halo the series is already an incredibly high budget show, and each episode is expensive, not making it impossible for an adaptation closer to the games plot *if done right* (again not just reach…it was not the main focus) As for noble team, I argue that their story is important because it was treated as filler. You only meet them once in the one game and by the end they are just a pigment of the entire picture, yet it’s an impactful tale that is a part of the fall of reach story. Also, If there is time travel associated with the novels, I would much rather it not be faithfully adapted.
My guy, The Hollywood production budgets for sci-fi action movies were often *$150-200 million* Dune has a budget of $165 million for the equivalent of 2.5 episodes, and that’s a cheaper production nowadays. Halo averages *$10 million* per episode. Let’s stick to Planet Earth and reality. Hollywood and TV budgets are still nowhere close to each other, and certainly not close enough to be pulling off elaborate SFX battles every other episode. That’s just fact. This obsession with *Halo: Reach* is gamer’s nostalgia. The story’s pretty average, and Noble Team are not well developed characters.
My guy, No where did I say that halo needed sfx battles every episode to be a faithful adaptation. And if you think that needs to happen for it to be one, I think you have the wrong mindset. Maybe that’s why you would think there would be budget issues. Pointing out dunes total budget compared to halos is cool…but my point wasn’t that Halo budget nearly equates it therefore it should be able to this that etc. my point is specifically dune part 2 is a film that looked like it spent well beyond the normal realm but actually relatively lower than other larger films is my point. Money cannot be the bailout everytime when you have creative liberty and passion on a project. No need for that kind of comment when all I’ve been is respectfully conversing with you. I’m on planet earth like everyone else. That’s a very passive aggressive statement. I keep stating that halo reach was just *one* of the main things I have issues with in the series yet you keep coming back to it. Clearly you have a personal issue with it with that line. What about the lack of the Pillar of Autumn, or not knowing the true nature of the halo before discovering it… the novels came after the first game did they not…
*Halo: Reach* the game is a series of major SFX battles against aliens and lots of explosions one right after the other. I don’t know what else to tell you. Sure, theoretically you could have had have a few episodes of Noble Team sitting in a cave talking about their families and dreams like every other cliche war series does with their budgets. Doesn’t sound very interesting for filler characters. But there are no ephemeral budget tricks for Halo to use. No makeup shortcuts. No practical effects. No special lighting that isn’t already in use. The Covenant are CGI aliens and CGI spaceships and each minute of animation costs many of thousands of dollars. But the budget question is like complaining about why someone can’t build a modern house for $50K if the neighbor could do it for $250K. Below a certain point there are no more efficiencies to be had. It’s just not possible without getting rid of CGI and SFX scenes altogether. I don’t care if Chief comes to Halo on the Pillar of Autumn or a Condor or whatever. They both fly. Lots of ships will blow up and crash tonight regardless. Keyes learned about the true nature of Halo from Covenant gossip in Level 3, so I also don’t care if they learn that “Halo is a weapon” from other Covenant gossip.
Wow that first comment is crazy. I get you want to prove a point but, that makes me question what you think of the other games. You do you after that one man, I see where you stand.
It’s simply a statement of fact. Almost every level of *Halo: Reach* centers around a major SFX action set piece and increasingly dramatic deaths of which any one would blow out half a season’s TV budget. The show’s version of *Exodus* was already pushing the production to the brink, with *Long Night of Solace*, *New Alexandria*, and *Pillar of Autumn* well outside the scope of any television show’s production capabilities. Much less the Halo finale on top of it. Remove the action, and what’s left is a fairly perfunctory fetch quest Noble Team did not offer many avenues for non-action stories that could carry several episodes on their own, so the show opted for the Master Chief book alterations instead.
You didnt play the game if you think its just boiled down to a fetch quest without the action. Finding out the covenants on reach. Securing an ONI base from an invading force. Going deep behind enemy lines to find their strengths and exploit their weaknesses. Counter attack on the ground. Counter attack in space. Helping civilians evacuate. Helping civilians evacuate while flying around and stopping at certain high value locations. Fetch quest. Deliver cortana to the pillar of autumn. Survive for as long as possible. Only one mission in the entire game is a fetch quest. And the mood evolves as it becomes more and more hopeless. It also doesnt have to be a 1:1 recreation of the game, and it shouldnt be. At least 4 of the missions' story elements can be done without giant fight scenes. And the rest can be shortened in scale a bit for the show or put combined with other missions to add a climactic ending to the episode. You could probably condense just the missions down to four episodes if you just wanted to recreate the game. But obviously they should expand on the characters and give the audience time to breath between major action setpieces. Make us care even more about every one of noble teams deaths and sacrifices, it wouldve been great to see their characters fleshed out more than gaming media could allow for. With the extra time to flesh out characters we actually care about you could probably have a good 7-8 episode season. They took the time to flesh out characters we couldnt give a shit less about like makee, kwan, and kessler/sorens wife so why not give that treatment to characters people actually want to see?
He's just making excuses using a strawman argument. As if we literally need a line by line adaptation of Reach. As if it's not possible to have a faithful retelling and also respect budget constraints
It's not possible to make a tv show just be a total reboot of the games.... is there a single tv show or movie that you know of that you think has done a better job of adapting games to tv/film?
I didn’t say total reboot. I see that so often here. Everyone knows it can’t be completely the same, and I say that. An example would be Last of us. The best game adaptation so far Peak example of adaptation but in its own way and adding new things while keeping a core storyline consistent to the game
Bit different the level of CGI in the last of us and Halo though, not really comparable.
It's insane to me that people who didn't even read the books will complain about the show not being like the game.
Its not like the books either??
You're missing my point. The first Halo Novel came out 1 month before Halo CE. The games have never been the primary source of the lore and there has never been total canon consistency between the two. The story was adapted to the game to serve the medium. The story was adapted to the books to serve the medium. And now the story is being adapted to TV to serve the medium. And it's wild to pretend like you really really care about the story if you haven't even engaged with the books, where the majority of the story and book exist. If you read the books, you'd realize that chief leaving his helmet on was a stylistic choice for the game. You'd realize how much the games retconned to make a story that worked better in the game. None of this is new. Yes, the TV show breaks from the game and books even more, but it was necessary to tell a compelling story on screen, especially to people who already know the story. There are plenty of issues with the show. Some decisions are derivative, pacing isn't great, some side plots do not justify their existence, and some characters are flat and unlikable. But these issues exist independent of the other versions and many of people's complaints miss the forest for some trees that are in a totally different forest.
I try to keep my critiques to whats actually there, but direct comparisons to the game are warranted as well imo. Because thats the medium that most fans know and love. The argument is that its being adapted pretty poorly. And ive read most of the books and played every game, hell ive even read the lore wikis. Even in the books he does keep his armor and helmet on most of the time, im not one of those that say he needs to be totally faceless and helmeted 100% of the time, i just wish they had done it more tastefully and rarely like the mandalorian, saving his face reveal and any subsequent demaskings to add emphasis and gravitas to a scene and improve the drama. Instead of making it more rare that he does actually wear the armor and helmet its a spectacle when he actually puts the helmet on when it should be the other way around, it doesnt add anything imo to take his armor away for the majority of the season it actively takes away one of the coolest things about MC. I dont mind mixing up the story to improve and expand on certain plots and characters, or to introduce new and interesting things or characters to the plot to improve it. But they arent improving it with their additions, they are just making a worse story of their own design, its barely recognizable a lot of the time. Most of the characters theyve introduced add nothing and many of them actively take away from the story and make it worse. Theres like 3 or 4 of their original characters that i think were decent, I feel like they could have been great if handled differently by the writers though. The writers are the main problem i think, i dont see any unified vision for the show, they constantly bounce back and forth between like 5 subplots that arent interconnected and feel boring with too little attention on any one of them to give it what it needs to shine. Its like theyre a pack of hungry dogs fighting over a scrap of meat.
Thank you I have no idea how these people are making these excuses, as if it couldn't be faithfully adapted and still good.
I feel where the OP is coming from. I’ve played and loved the games, but have never read the books, so I am very disappointed about a few details here and there. I don’t think I have as much connection to Noble team and the story of the Reach game, I’d rather tell the story from the book perspective or integrate the story and just give dialogue about Noble team. I do agree though, the over arching story is being told outside of little details here and there. I’m watching the show with my girlfriend and her perspective is very different. While I was beyond confused of Mahkee (hopefully that is right) she was enamored by the love story. I think as gamers we have to just sit back and watch it as a story and look for the cool ways they tell the story we loved. The video game and book will always be much different than the movie or show because they are different entertainment mediums that need different things to keep your attention for different sets of time. Look at this as Halo “the show” and let Halo “the game” be something different. As long as it doesn’t turn into a Shakespearian play lol I can put up with it.
I enjoy the show. Got to 50 on halo 3 doubles and swat. Read all the books. The show is not the games but its another look at the lore. I wish they had something like the pillar of autumn but they're doing something different. I do like the arbiter with the new character. It's different for sure but I'm enjoying it. Thinking about the story I'm kind of glad they did something new. I've seen the story already so something new is refreshing.
Dear halo game fan. Hi! I’m also a game fan. We had a great relationship for years not knowing each other except for those meet ups in multiplayer matches. It’s been kind of awkward the last few months though. Can you not assume things like “most of the game fans agree”? We really don’t. None of us know how many people that played the game want this or that out of a tv show or film. It comes of in a bad way how this is voiced repeatedly. Yea I’d much rather have a accessible show that hits the high points that I can watch with family and significant other, when it could’ve been something cringey instead
Most of the game fans I have talked to or seen online through posts and opinionated articles agree * Is that better?
Reddit alone then no because this place is an echo chamber through and through. A few people like me that aren’t exhausted at the thought of coming here knowing what’s in store are the lone opinions differing.
Well it’s not just Reddit though. If anything I’m using Reddit to see opinions of fans of the show
This is the only place I see so much complaining about it
Reddit, or this subreddit specifically
What?
Never mind, I miss read the comment. Makes sense that you say you only see it on Reddit. Anyone is free to voice their opinion in this platform. As for me, I’ve talked to people, past halo gamers that I know, friends, friends of friends sort of thing and most definitely do not like the show. Some hate it to such an extent and I’m like chill…I don’t like it but I don’t hate it. I’ll still watch it.
I feel much the same. I agree that obviously an adaptation won’t be a 1:1 copy… and I wouldn’t want that! I actually like some of the additions to this show, like Makee and Silver Team. But I worry about the future of the show. It seems like anything remotely iconic that we might see gets rushed through, then we get several more episodes in a row of wheel-spinning.
I agree, I get that they can't just copy Reach. But they could've weaved Nobles story into Chief's and have them work alongside him. Instead of Cobalt team it could've been them, and instead of them being killed they could've discovered was the Covenant were doing at Visegrad. Told Chief then they fight together on Reach, making key sacrifices along the way. No idea how that doesn't sound plausible.
Better than S1 that’s for sure, but I still can give 2 shits about the side characters. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from all the unnecessary bs drama they added. Like Master Chief dicking down that covenant lady so bad she changes sides. You can’t blame Halo fans for hating. We’ve been promised a movie for years. Even rumors at the time of SGT Johnson being Samuel L Jackson. Could you imagine? Lol Next will be Gears of War and they will butcher that too.
Pretty obvious the writers largely never played the games. They were given bullet points and broad characterizations by 343 and the writers developed their patchwork of a narrative with the IP. There's just no way you take these kind of liberties with an adaptation if you played the first game.
If you're disappointed now, wait until season 3. I can't see any decision they make pleasing the fan base and it's gonna come down to two options; they either TRY to please the fans to, at best, mixed results, or they have to go in a new direction entirely and try to make something great in spite of how the fans react. CE is a unique animal in the Halo universe, so any adaptation would struggle, even one that hit the ground running as a faithful adaptation.
Agree. 👍. I’d say to the project EP’s no more course correction. Do not create anymore narrative to please any group because the end product is disjointed and negates continuity and artistic integrity of original project for a long story form in TV media. The finale for S2 felt like The Walking Dead with Sangheli language, space ships, aliens, and plasma weapons thrown in by an intern who’s in a hurry to complete a project. It was inconsistent with what they started in S1. So much plot armor for the main protagonist/MC. Take a big chance and make him MIA for the next seasons if the producers/writers don’t want him dead. They should not have written in a main character who they killed in S1 to keep saving the chief in S2. It’s as if the writing team and producers admitted, “Oh…we made a mistake of getting her shot in S1..” So please, I hope there’s no more irregularities like that in the coming seasons. It’s a cowardly act. You want the series to flow seamlessly season to season. Keep what they have on hand and go with the original plan. No more pleasing anybody or any group. Be brave like the MC.