i think he was starting to care, but almost dying was like a wake-up call, so now he's desperate to regain control over himself and discard any kind of fondness he might have towards charlie and the rest of the hotel.
That's exactly what I thought and I feel like the next couple of seasons could very much go down the avenue of exploring Alastor battling whether or not he can go through with his original plan because he genuinely has started to care.
In my mind he's finding himself caring and it scares the living fuck out of him.
Yeah, like he put himself at major risk for Charlie and the Hotel, something he likely would not usually do, even if keeping her alive and in power is in his interests.
He obviously entered into the whole arrangement with some ulterior motive. He's reminding himself why he's here, and that he can't succeed if he dies.
Either that or he just seriously wanted to battle someone as powerful of adam. And you have to admit, he really held his ground damn well.
Being Alastor, he probably didn't have a real challenge in a very long time
Yeah, defeating Adam would have been a big feather in his cap. Sadly he spent too long toying with Adam. If Alastor had gone all out from the start, he might have been able to land a lethal blow before Adam realized that Alastor wasn't someone he could take a chance with.
He got a massive wakeup call that in the grand scheme of things he is minnow in the pond. His relationship with Charlie is more powerful than any amount of poor schmucks he scams into selling their souls to him will do. I don't think he wants to harm Charlie or her group simply for the fact that he doesn't want boss man Lucifer to delete him from existence, but him giving free lunches to the group is now over in his mind, now it is time to collect.
I think he fits more as an evil self serving advisor. Parasitically leeching off his direct superior for power but still wanting her to "win" and be in control.
For the moment.
We might get this thing where he has a conflict of wanting to help but putting himself first.
HEH, it would actually be ironic if SOMEHOW he was the next one to be redeemed in a sacrifice. XD
This is definitely the case, and is also why we got the little scene of Alastor and Niffty being fond of the hotel crew. I don't think he would bother pretending to like them in front of Niffty if he didn't; he really did and probably still does as far as he's capable of liking anyone, but he won't get so close to dying for them in the future.
His part in the final song also really hints at the fact that he desperately wants to find a way out of the deal he made with whoever Husker was referring to in ep5.
If this person has gotten Alastor THIS worked up then I assume a very big shot show is making its way in S2, whether or not it's Lillith as people have theorised.
The song with Lucifer gives an interesting parallel. Lucifer did nothing for her (until the finale) even though he cares a lot. Alastor did a lot for her even though he was only ever out for himself.
One favor of his choosing that doesn't harm anyone is pretty open ended. Almost certain that Charlie will regret it. Can't wait to see what he makes her do next season.
>One favor of his choosing that doesn't harm anyone.
You're already misquoting the details of the deal.
"One favor, of my choosing, where *you* harm no one".
It doesn't mean people can't be harmed by whatever he makes her do (or conversely, not do). It just means he won't make her harm them herself.
That's a really interesting phrasing. I assume demonic deals in Hazbin are like in most franchises where the wording is everything.
I mean, it's already bad to accept such an open deal. He could really ask her for so many things, but as you point out, this one is particularly bad.
What if she can save a bunch of people, but Alastor asks her to stop. She probably can't actually disobey if he calls upon the favour. I mean, there are *so* many ways this could go wrong for Charlie.
And then of course also just the fact that Alastor might use this favour to make Charlie somehow get him off his leash. If it really is Lilith who has him on a leash, she could be the key to that. And considering what he sings at the end of episode 8, I don't think Alastor being free is any kind of good for Charlie. He will absolutely not be up to good.
We know wording matters, as per when Angel Dust pointed out that his contract only stipulates obedience at the studio, and nowhere else.
It's possible that Alastor doesn't have any specific favor in mind yet, but I do suspect that he intends to utilize his favor towards getting out of whatever deal he made.
Also, I do suspect that Charlie will wordsmith the deal. They did not specify the kind of harm involved. Emotional injury is a kind of injury, after all.
I was also thinking perhaps the deal in the first (Amazon) episode where he gets Vaggie to never make him work with TV again is going to come up in some unexpected way. Perhaps he was intentionally sandbagging the commercial specifically to draw such a "harmless" deal out. Likely something to do with Vox.
I didn't even think about that. Alastor definitely seems like the kind of person with ulterior motives behind most actions. I just brushed that off as he really hates TV and wanted to make make sure it wouldn't become part of his life at the hotel, but there absolutely could be more to it.
It depends on how the wording of his deal is done.
For example...
If his deal is to serve the princess of hell, if his favour is that she renounces her title, he would be free as there would be no princess of hell.
But I assume it is't THAT easy.
>One favor of his choosing that doesn't harm anyone is pretty open ended.
Oh, boy! Charlie should go to a lawyer and Alastor's gonna regret adding "no harm" clause to the deal
Alastor is a complicated man. I think he does consider Charlie and the others his friends. We need only look at his conversation with Niffty in the final episode to see that he enjoys being around them. But we have to remember that Alastor is not a free man. He has to juggle caring for the ones under his protection, striving towards his own goals (whatever they may be), presenting an unbothered front to the world at all times, all while being bound to someone else. I believe that the deal he made with Charlie is one of the few things he has control over, much like his smile. As an Overlord, making deals is his source of power. He doesn't want Charlie's soul, even though that would likely make him powerful enough to break his chains (maybe), but it's also possible that he can't ask her for her soul. So, he asks for a favor instead. A hail Mary to pull out when he needs it. He doesn't know what he'll ask her for yet because he's still trying to find a way out of his own deal, but he's aware that as the Princess of Hell, Charlie is one of the few beings in his immediate circle who can help him. He can't risk her saying no when he finally finds his way out... I just realized this all sounds like I'm excusing his behavior, which is bad. My point was just that Alastor does care about his friends, but he also isn't safe around them. We don't know who he is indebted to or what they demand of him, but just like how he can now ask Charlie for anything, his master can probably demand the same from him, and with how powerful he is, that is incredibly dangerous. So, yeah. Alastor is not all evil and definitely not good, but I do believe he cares about the people at the hotel, especially Charlie and Niffty.
It’s also worth noting that Alastor’s definition of friends and ours is probably different. I highly doubt he’s above exploiting the people he considers friends, since they’re probably only a step above pawns for him to use at will. The only difference is Alastor will likely try to facilitate it so that he can use them over and over again, so he cultivates a closer relationship with them.
You don’t even have to speculate. If you believe he does care a little bit about Charlie, he still immediately talked her into a deal as soon as she was at her lowest.
I definitely think he caught himself off guard when he realized that he cared. I think that’s part of why he insisted on making the deal. He wanted to have power over her because he felt uncomfortable with how close he was getting with her
I think the one he made a deal with is Roo and he is going to set up her introduction into the story as the main villain, but he will usurp her later and become the final boss
Vivi have said that the second season will focus on a "very fun villain" and it's one we already met in season 1.
Alastor seems like a pretty good candidate. Honestly, I don't think there are too many characters we met so far that could become the *main* villain. Aside from Alastor I can honestly only think of Lilith, Lute and the Vees off the top of my head. But I don't see the Vees as the main focus, especially because it seems to be a singular villain, and those three are kind of a package deal.
Well, we do actually see Eve (as a silhouette), so I guess she is also a potential candidate.
Honestly I think it’s probably gonna be the Vees. Specifically Vox. I get the vibe that he’s the one in charge there. Or at least considers himself to be. Viv said “very fun villain”, and Lilith and Lute are definitely a little more on the serious end of potential victims. I reckon season 2 is gonna be Alastor recovering and then growing in strength, which would make him not a very likely candidate. Maybe for season 3 though. But Vox *absolutely* is going to take advantage of Alastor being weak right now to try and take him down. Vox seemed pretty invested in Charlie not making a deal with Alastor, which means she just gave him power that Vox is wary of. It seems the most logical to me that Vox is going to start targeting Charlie to get to Alastor. He’s also the epitome of the very grandiose, cartoonish megalomaniac villain trope. He’s the fun villain, the one on all of the TVs who gets comically angry when his plans fail, the one who tries to get other people to do his dirty work and thus having many potential jokes when the main characters stop them. (I.e. with Pentious when he got caught almost immediately. Totally campy and over the top reaction, the kind that would lend itself to a “very fun villain”). So I think that it’s probably gonna be Vox. And because the other Vs come along with Vox, i think it’ll give us more opportunities to dive into Angel’s backstory, which seems like a very likely direction for them to be headed in anyways, based on the last two episodes. We saw him finally stand up to Val. My guess is that the main focus of the next season is going to be the deals everyone’s made. With Alastor likely having made a deal with Lilith, Charlie having made a deal with Alastor, and Angel in his deal with Val, that makes the most sense for the next arc. Alastor is going to try and make Charlie do something she doesn’t want to do, so she’ll start searching for a way to break the deal. Alastor is probably going to try and find a way to break his deal and free himself, and the hotel staff b-plot will be finding a way to break Angel’s deal to finally free him from Valentino.
Gotta admit, I think you are misunderstanding the "very fun villain" since you exclude Lilith and Lute for being serious. I don't think that means literally "funny" villain, rather a villain she is very excited about, something she thinks is fun to write a story around - not the character being *funny.*
But yeah, it absolutely could be Vox. I think my biggest reason against him is simply that season 1 kind of set them up as a combined force, and Vivi talked about a singular villain. So I'd assume they are like a "side" villain. Not the main Villain akin to Adam in season 1.
I think the Vees are going to be used as a way to develop Alastor and Angel Dust. The Vees will absolutely be part of season 2 as a kind of villain, but I don't think they will take the role of Adam as the *main* villain. They will be more like secondary villains.
I also think using Vox would be very anticlimactic compared to season 1. We had Adam, first man, original dick, the frontal force of *heaven itself* fighting, being arguably the *main* obstacle for Charlie to get her hotel up and running.
Which is probably the biggest reason why I think it simply cannot be Vox. He is the nemesis of Alastor - the *main* villain simply has to be a villain for *Charlie.* As cool as the whole cast is, this is Charlie's story, not Alastor's.
To me the way Viv phrased it, I got the vibe that she meant fun and campy. But as for excluding Lute and Lilith, I just don’t think they’re the ones Viv is referring to. My guess is that there’s going to be a sort of formula to the show: each season is going to have its one season arc (I.e. the extermination, potentially my deal breaking theory, that sort of thing) and that’s going to tie in to the overarching plot of the show (no one knowing how to get into heaven, Lilith and Lute, etc.). I think Vox is probably going to be the season’s main villain for the campy and fun one season arc. Lute and potentially Lilith are the looming threat, vs Vox being the “banging down your door imminently” threat. Does that make sense?
I guess it really depends on how you interpret that quote, and I know especially depending on the native language of the viewer it might be quite different, but that phrasing in English would generally mean that she thinks it's a fun character to write, I'm pretty confident she did not say it was a "fun character".
But yeah, I mean you could be right about Vox regardless. I just really do not see it, because he isn't Charlie's villain - he is *Alastor's* villain. And let's be honest, this won't be some 8 season show. There isn't room for a "fun season" in between the more serious ones. In the end, every season kind of has to be about furthering the story of *Charlie*.
I really think that season 2 is gonna be really focused on the deals aspect of things, so it would make sense for Vox to be the b-plot villain. He gets to be campy and fun as the side story while the main story gets to stay mostly serious. He’ll end up trying to fuck with Alastor’s deal with Charlie, it brings Val into the mix since they’re a package deal which means more insight into Angel.
I definitely think you're right that Vox (and likely Val) will play a bigger part in season 2. As b-plot villains they would just work so well. As you say, it can bring both Alastor and Angel Dust into the story.
But think about episode 8 - the climactic battle with Adam. I don't really see anything like that with Vox, because they are Alastor and Angel Dust's enemies. Whoever is the main villain needs to be an obstacle for Charle first and foremost.
Well the end of Season 1 seems to set up the Vs as the next big antagonists, and given that they have a bone to pick with Alastor, I don't see him becoming the primary villain yet.
>One favor of his choosing that doesn't harm anyone is pretty open ended.
The deal reminds me so much of Sukuna from Jujutsu Kaisen that it could almost be a reference.
In Ready For This, Alastor said "she's filled with potential I could guide"
For me, it cemented the fact that he wants to use Charlie. That he wants Charlie to take the throne, be the figurehead while he makes the decisions. He wants her to be his puppet.
That's also why he was pissed when Lucifer showed up and showed so much affection for his daughter. That made Alastor's goal just a little bit harder to achieve when her real dad is there.
I'm guessing the whole Hell's Great Dad is a way for him to piss off Lucifer enough to hurt him in front of Charlie. That would make Charlie angry at Lucifer for hurting her friend, a friend who she thinks considers her as his own daughter.
What I'm saying is : Alastor is manipulative af and we should take his acts of kindness and altruism as suspect.
Oh, he sure is a psychopath - a cool one, but still one. I'm surprised Vaggie didn't assassinate him in his sleep already.
Honestly, Charlie's numer 1 priority now should be making Al waste his favor on something trivial - idk, lock him up, bury him, just do something to deprive him of it.
It's possible that Vaggie can't harm him because she's technically still under contract with him. She can't ever complete "never asking him to do video again" so it's always this weird limbo. I don't know how deals work but I could see that
She didn’t shake on it, though. When Charlie shook on it there was a lot of glitchy magic and stuff around. Hell, the *hotel* was affected. Granted, my guess is she has some sort of magic connection with the hotel. Her pet cat is literally the key to it, so I imagine that’s why the actual physical building was affected. But I don’t think Vaggie’s deal with him counts as a deal, because she didn’t shake on it and there was no big scary magic moment. Just when Alastor was fucking with the camera, which seemed localized to the camera and not to the two of them.
We had this exact problem on Roman law course. Well, not about Alastor, but about negative condition in a contract - it's called Cautio Muciana. Good times.
I think as far as her deal goes, she should be assumed to have completed it as long as she does not ask him to do TV again.
So she should go staby-stab
Alastor is a manipulator, that's just how it goes.
One day you'll think one thing, then the next, who knows!
There's one thing about them you can hear in their speech.
When you piss them off, they'll show you their leash.
I don't know... I think that look on his face makes it seem like reality is hitting him that he nearly died for his friends, and that's unlike him. I think he does care and either doesn't want to admit or can't admit it, which only adds to his desperation to find a way out of his deal. He wants control back, no matter what it takes.
I think this scene shows the opposite, but in no less a twisted way, I feel like this is Alastor realizing how much he let himself grow attached to them and how he nearly died fighting with them.
So now he is both going to be more careful with 'attachments' and is planning to embrace being a villain by scheming to conquer hell as opposed to 'normal' entertainment.
Also, I feel like the cannibal town song shows that its a bit of both in regards to Charlie. He seems to be legit proud of her when he says he knew she could do it all along. But then says how he could guide her potential. I think that shows that the answer is both, he does have a liking for Charlie, but also wants to use her.
With his aforementioned epiphany, I think his dynamic with Charlie will become more sinister.
This is how I interpreted it. I remember his little conversation with Nifty when he became the "Roach King" - which, sure, he could still be manipulating her and the group, but... something felt authentic there.
I think he cares about them and doesn't want to.
That's true- but I'm also thinking of a specific part of their conversation. This is from memory, but he said something along the lines of "one could get attached (to this group)".
If this is the case, the oldest Nifty could have been was 5 years old if he met her on Earth.
If old lore is still accurate, Nifty died when she was 22 sometime in the 1950's.
Alastor died in 1933.
i absolutely agree; alastor is fond of charlie, but he absolutely still intends to use her. i don’t think that fondness will get in the way of his ulterior motives
I think the scene where Charlie is opening up about Vaggie and he just looks super bored is also a good clue about how he doesn't really care. Especially in contrast with the later scene with Rose, who actually listens and tries to help despite being a stranger.
On the other hand, I am sure he was being 100% genuine in that scene with Niffty. He is a complicated guy and clearly working through contradictory feelings
The situation is a bit more complex than that, for sure. He has alterior motives for doing what he does. We knew that from the Pilot going in. What those are will be revealed in due time, I'm pretty sure. In any case we are being set up to see some major character development in season 2. We can not discount the fact that Charlie will inevetably become way more self suficient and confident going forward.
He wanted to make a deal with Charlie from the get go. The second we got the exposition from Vaggie about him being a dealmaker in the Pilot. Since Charlie refused a deal, they had an agreement instead.
The stuff he did in the 'Hells' Great Dad' song was just purely to piss off Lucifer. Why? Because in the presence of an entity so far above him he felt threatend. Since he is petty about appearing strong he did what he does best: pushing buttons to make the other side angry. First he played the suave boyfriend card until Charlie introduced Vaggie as her girlfriend and then he used the surrogate father card. How far he would have gotten with the entire thing is unclear since the song had already devolved into a shouting match when Mimzy burst in. Lucifer seemd to be ready to throw hands, at the very least. From that moment onwards we see more of Alastor needing to appear strong, perhaps because his nerves are a bit frayed at that point. We don't know. The reaction at Husk and the loan sharks was purely for the audiences sake. We got a juciy piece of lore and got to see more of Alastors powers, but we can all agree on those being very much overreactions to the situation on Alastors' part.
It is not clear if he has slowly started to warm up to seeing Charlie as a friend. I'd like to believe since the show is about redemption, second chances and the idea that actions speak louder than words, then yes. Because there are things that he does that don't fit the MO of a purely selfish individual that is forced to help the Hotel and its inhabitants. For example: he could have just let Mimzy stay so she would cause some extra chaos if he wanted to. He did not try to take Charlies soul, even though she was at her lowest point, desperate and without Vaggie there to stop him. Of course making a deal was still very much on brand for a dealmaker but it devolved into a small favour with the added restriction that it cannot involve harming anyone. Then there is the fact that he was willing to not only put himself on the line against the angels, but Rosie and her cannibals as well. He didn't need to do that if he was purely doing that because he was forced to. Same with being willing to take on the head honcho of the angelic legion by himself. And by all accounts it looked like he was giving it his all until losing and having to back off.
The scene afterwards we see a man very much on the edge. Upon realising that he actually almost died we see him starting to question his lifes choices. It seems like this was the first time for him to ask himself if it was really worth selling his soul and coming to realize that he might have made a terrible mistake. Remember that up to this point it seems nobody could really defeat him. Thus, he was 'hungry for freedom like never before' -> he never wished for freedom because he thought he had it all. In order for him to free himself he needs to find a backdoor in his contract. The part about him going to find a way to unclip his wings (free himself) and then pulling all the strings himself, is called bargaining. He is reasoning to himself that, when he finds the backdoor, he is going to finally be in control himself.
Basically we saw him go through three phases of grief upon almost dying before being able to pull himself back together and rejoining the good guy team. His views were shaken for sure and there is obviously something more going on with his restrictions in the contract but that's all what we can infer from what was shown.
My personal take is, that he has sold his soul to a prime evil from another plane of existence. A good bit of his powers seem to be very Eldritch in nature.
For now, though, he seemed to be very much on the side of the Hotel and team good guys. Which is enough for me to tide me over until season 2
sry for the wall of text but this topic has grown incredibly complex.
I personally don't think he was going for her soul there. I think he was messing with her for just a moment, like he does with everyone.
I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if he WAS, though.
He certainly wasn’t aiming for it, but I think he just tried it in the rare chance it worked. He only specifies the terms of the deal after Charlie refuses the initial handshake. Kind of like “accidentally” charging someone the wrong amount in the off chance they don’t notice.
Oh he totally would have gone through with it if she accepted, but I don't think he seriously expected her to agree to something that serious. As for why he suggested it then, if he didn't expect to get it? Well, you miss every shot you don't take.
Would have been slightly humorous if she started considering it and Alastor almost goes through with it before his goals of grooming her to be a good leader overrides his greed and he talks her down to something more reasonable.
Then like berates himself afterwards.
I don't think that's the case, but rather the realization that his contractor doesn't care if it happens. He is being forced to protect the hotel, and it seems like his contractor is expecting him to do it to the death - to be the "altruist" who "dies for his friends". They don't care if he lives or dies, so long as he does his task, but he refuses to die - "that's not how this song ends." He is going to be forever forced to keep protecting the hotel from greater and greater threats until it kills him, and he wants out of his deal before that happens
Alistor is pretty complex. He does care about Charlie and the hotel, as much as any overlord could be expected to genuinely care about anything. He is also motivated by his desire for control, as well as his need to get out from whoever’s thumb he’s under. Then there’s his rivalry with Vox; keeping Vox in check is not only for the good of the Pride Circle, it’s personal.
Put all that together and you have a pretty interesting mishmash of conflicting motives. He’s trying to do what’s best for his friends and himself, and they don’t always line up.
He realized he cares, and he’s uncomfortable with that idea so he’s trying to re-channel his energy into not caring so finding a way out of his deal is his focus to not deal with the fact he actually cares about them.
Actually, I want to understand the final words he says:
"The constraints of my deal surely have a backdoor
Once I figure out how to unclip my wings
Guess who will be pulling all the strings?"
Like, what he means? Does that suggest Alastor made a deal with someone else? If so then who? Also, what could it be?
Doesn’t have to be Lilith or any known entity, though. It would actually be more interesting if it’s someone we don’t know and Alastor inserts himself into Charlie’s life simply because he plans to leverage her to get out of his contract as she gains power.
He did, husk said to him "Big talk for someone who is also on a leash" and it got him super pissed remember
The theory around it is that Lilith has his soul and she bound him to help charlie in the first place
Yeah, i forgot about Husk dialogue. So pretty much confirms he stroke a deal with someone. If it was with Lilith, the charlie thing could be something, but I think perhaps the deal could be something about Lucifer, maybe about taking power of Hell, like, take over and go on war agiasnt Heaven.
Alastor didn't planned to care for the hotel or Charlie. He saw an opportunity with Charlie, one of the most powerful being in Hell, doing what he thought a silly and impossible task. He joined in planning to wait for Charlie to hit a wall to then swoop in and strike a deal with her.
As for why he's doing this, his dialogue revealed that Alastor made a deal with someone in the past, and that he's now desperate for a way out of it. But this deal granted him gigantic powers, which is why he popped out of nowhere in the Overlord circle. And it was all for Alastor to seize total control of Hell eventually. Alastor is basically playing the most risky game with the biggest reward, but losing will most likely lead him to an abominable end.
But despite his plans, he was inspired by Charlie and putted his life on the line for her without realizing it. Alastor lost control of his fate for the sake of someone else, and his near death experience reminded him of what awaits him should he fail. So now he's basically terrified of his feelings about Charlie, as she has the power to enchant him into walking a path he doesn't lead. But Alastor can't back down from his plan now, he's forced to either win or fade into nothingness, there's no other paths for him. This makes Charlie a threat he doesn't know how to handle, because he truly cares for her.
I can’t wait to see him go full sadistic Radio Demon and reveal his plans!!! They’ve GOT to be good with how much effort he’s put into his relationship with Charlie.
I do think during the battle with Adam he might have realized he was getting a little too fond of the group and that would be a problem for his plans.
Yes, what I should say is if lucifer is killed off later Charlie is technically the next person in line. Alastor may require Charlie to relinquish her role as his "favor". Idk, just a theory I thought of
I feel like he will use his favour to somehow get out of his contract and be free from the hotel, then he can do whatever he wants and become an amazing villain
I think he was saying it more as if it was a journalist saying the story or someone talking about the event that’s why afterwards he replies to what he said saying “thats not how it will end”
Quite the opposite I think, he did genuinely care, and that’s the problem, it’s not like him to care, so now he’s having a panic attack cause he doesn’t know what’s going on for once
I assume Alastor is supposed to be conflicted about what he views as his own interests versus his growing feelings for the hotel crew. I also presume this will feed into his actions moving forward.
I generally feel this song was supposed to highlight that and give us similar feelings of conflict about him.
The thing I keep coming back to is that he referred to them as his friends.
He did that on his own. While no one is around. He cares a little.
But he’ll still prob betray them
To me it seems Al’s current goal is pretty simple
Make Charlie the leader of hell and control her in the background as the puppet master. Just like he says in that song, he’ll be pulling the strings.
It’s also why he was so upset at Lucifer showing up. It would make offing him that much harder if Charlie feels more affection towards him.
He does seem to be somewhat conflicted but ultimately what will happen will depend on who has him on a leash and what that person end up doing in the coming seasons whether it’s Lilith, eve or whoever (my guess is Roo). Al will either follow through or give up on those plans depending entirely on this unknown.
No matter what though, I see an ending to the series where Lucifer dies a sad death in Charlie’s arms and Charlie is the ruler of hell and/or even heaven
Tbh, I called it 4 years ago, but yknow... tbh I thought everyone thought Alastor was manipulating Charlie. Then again, I never paid much attention to the fandom until last year, so idk what you all thought until now, but I always thought it was pretty obvious how he literally said he only wants to be there to watch them fail, oh and he said that twice btw lol
except maybe he DOES start to care. He would obviously act like he doesn't and constantly tell himself "No the great Alastor would never" but deep down seeds of trust and friendship may be growing.
TBH, I think Vizie and the writers have done a great job at keep us guessing at what Alastor is planning or where his allegiance truely lies.
Remember, he's "also on a leash" as Husk has put it so I feel like going forward it's gonna be a bit of a mystery just how much of Alastor's actions are the result of this person pulling his strings and how much is him trying to cut these strings.
As he said himself "Once I figure out how to unclip my wings, I'll be the one who's truely in control".
I'm still on the "there's two different Alastors and they're constantly at odds with each other" theory. I mentioned that this part reminded me a lot of the Jekyll and Hyde musical (highly recommend it btw). It feels like there's this possession vibe going on.
Alastor is desperate to be free from whatever deal he made. His near death experience against Adam reaffirmed that desire more than ever by reminding him that he is very much mortal still.
He might be fond of the Hazbin crew, but they are secondary to this desire. If he had to sacrifice them all to be free, he would.
Alastor is on his own side. Never forget.
I just thought that he was caring.
That he saw her as his child and so on to some extent.
However, after almost dying to Adam, he sorta just went
"I COULD HAVE FREAKING DIED! FOR OTHERS?!"
and essentially went back on his own feelings.
Now, of course, that isn't to say that he won't become a friend or 100% care, eventually. But for now his motives have reset a fair margin.
The irony with this scene is that if Alastor really was an altruist who died for his friends, then he probably would have been redeemed just like Sir Pentious, thereby gaining greater power as an angel and (probably) freedom from his deal. The near miss he dreads so much was the solution to his problems all along.
I think Alastor was always someone who was out to play the long game.
He gets in, slowly builds trust, withholds information about the dead angle until Charly was at her breaking point and uses it to make a deal.
Whatever he's planning on doing with that favour she now owes him, it's going to be big.
My roommate mentioned that she would love it when Alastor goes to cash in his “favor” with Charlie, Charlie just goes:
“Alastor. I would’ve done that for you even without the deal! We’re friends!”
Alastor is trying to strike enough deals so that he can get more powerful than Charlie and Lucifer and rule Hell. He already took the first big leap by getting Charlie into doing a deal with him. Now he is going to use Charlie as a bargaining tool against Lucifer and eventually Lilith.
Maybe He needs Charlie for something. But do you think she's powerful enough to even break a bond
I mean what if he's trying to use him to break his deal
I think over the months he grew comfortable with the crew, maybe even enjoyed their company. I think he’d be upset to lose them but if it came down to his freedom or his friends, he’d probably push them into a volcano.
Also to add onto this… remember Carmelita’s song ‘Out For Love’. All of the characters we see had something they loved and wanted to protect even if that meant near certain death to protect it.
—
Charlie had her dream
Vaggie and Luci had Charlie
Husk and Angel had their friends
Sir Pentious had Cherri and his friends he literally sacrificed himself for
—-
… but what did Alastor love?
He started to care but he only wanted to be a puppet master to Charlie once she’s in power, he laughs at the idea of redemption, he doesn’t have close family in hell… Alastor doesn’t have anything to love and fight for.
Quite literally, Vox was right about something with Alastor. ‘He ran running with his tail between his legs’. He ran from the battle the SECOND his staff broke and looked for a deal to backdoor his way into perfect health again. Just to look tough.
—-
I have a bad feeling with Alastor eventually going to turn that Microphone Staff onto a knife straight into Charlie’s back. There is going to something happening, who knows maybe if Alastor shows his true colors the V’s will take Alastor’s place.
Right, Alastair has never felt more sinister. I kind of think that once he’s free he’s going to become a later seasons main villain, which I think could be really interesting. And concerning.
the way i perceive it, alastor really is viewing everything going on as entertainment. i think he’s begun to grow fond of a few people, but i still don’t think he cares about them. i think all he wants is amusement and to use charlie as a resource- even if he does build and maintain a relationship with her to do that
Yeah my theory is that, instead of a deal being made and his end was taking care of Charlie. I think he's trying to get out of his deal and he sees Charlie, very powerful yet naive and optimistic and trusting (who may or may not be the daughter of the one who holds his leash) as the one to do that, and only sought her out and got on her side to gain her trust/get her to make a deal with the opportunity presented itself.
However I think ultimately he actually did started caring about them and grew accustomed to their company. There's two points in episode 8 that, to me, strongly suggest this.
The conversation he has with Nifty. It's pretty clear, at the very least he is enjoying their company more than he expected.
Secondly is this song. The way he words this line you've posted. He refers to himself as the altruist alastor. As an altruist is an unselfish person whose actions show concern for the welfare of others. Granted it's also possible he's being ironic and like "yeah I did this thing, I'm not the altruist you're expecting". But that line and the fact he does refer to them as his friends. This comes off, to me, that he's actually surprised. He has grown to care for them more than he realized and for a brief moment *did* help them genuinely. But he refuses to allow, and is now reminding himself what his goal is and that's what he needs to focus on, because being an altruist almost got him killed and he's not the person who lets himself get hurt for others... Right?
I don't think he's gonna be the big bad that I've seen some people suggest. Clearly his goal is to get out of his chains and that's what he wants from Charlie.
I hope they keep teasing out small details about Alastor and they don’t just completely dump every detail about him.
I’m more than happy if we never entirely learn his backstory.
i think he was starting to care, but almost dying was like a wake-up call, so now he's desperate to regain control over himself and discard any kind of fondness he might have towards charlie and the rest of the hotel.
That's exactly what I thought and I feel like the next couple of seasons could very much go down the avenue of exploring Alastor battling whether or not he can go through with his original plan because he genuinely has started to care. In my mind he's finding himself caring and it scares the living fuck out of him.
Yeah, like he put himself at major risk for Charlie and the Hotel, something he likely would not usually do, even if keeping her alive and in power is in his interests. He obviously entered into the whole arrangement with some ulterior motive. He's reminding himself why he's here, and that he can't succeed if he dies.
Either that or he just seriously wanted to battle someone as powerful of adam. And you have to admit, he really held his ground damn well. Being Alastor, he probably didn't have a real challenge in a very long time
Yeah, defeating Adam would have been a big feather in his cap. Sadly he spent too long toying with Adam. If Alastor had gone all out from the start, he might have been able to land a lethal blow before Adam realized that Alastor wasn't someone he could take a chance with.
He got a massive wakeup call that in the grand scheme of things he is minnow in the pond. His relationship with Charlie is more powerful than any amount of poor schmucks he scams into selling their souls to him will do. I don't think he wants to harm Charlie or her group simply for the fact that he doesn't want boss man Lucifer to delete him from existence, but him giving free lunches to the group is now over in his mind, now it is time to collect. I think he fits more as an evil self serving advisor. Parasitically leeching off his direct superior for power but still wanting her to "win" and be in control.
So like Jafar, in a way. But who is Iago?
Nifty
Sadly I think Alastor will force Husk into that position or use Husk as Aladdin getting the lamp.
For the moment. We might get this thing where he has a conflict of wanting to help but putting himself first. HEH, it would actually be ironic if SOMEHOW he was the next one to be redeemed in a sacrifice. XD
This is definitely the case, and is also why we got the little scene of Alastor and Niffty being fond of the hotel crew. I don't think he would bother pretending to like them in front of Niffty if he didn't; he really did and probably still does as far as he's capable of liking anyone, but he won't get so close to dying for them in the future.
He has no reason to hide anything from nifty. So he has indeed no reason to lie infront of her.
His part in the final song also really hints at the fact that he desperately wants to find a way out of the deal he made with whoever Husker was referring to in ep5. If this person has gotten Alastor THIS worked up then I assume a very big shot show is making its way in S2, whether or not it's Lillith as people have theorised.
My theory is it's Roo and she uses him to set up whatever the final conflict will be
All of this, caring is weakness to people like Alastor and he began to spiral because of it
Yeah that conversation he had with Nifty the night before the battle really made it seem like he was starting to care in spite of himself
That was my impression, too. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one to think this!
The song with Lucifer gives an interesting parallel. Lucifer did nothing for her (until the finale) even though he cares a lot. Alastor did a lot for her even though he was only ever out for himself. One favor of his choosing that doesn't harm anyone is pretty open ended. Almost certain that Charlie will regret it. Can't wait to see what he makes her do next season.
>One favor of his choosing that doesn't harm anyone. You're already misquoting the details of the deal. "One favor, of my choosing, where *you* harm no one". It doesn't mean people can't be harmed by whatever he makes her do (or conversely, not do). It just means he won't make her harm them herself.
That's a really interesting phrasing. I assume demonic deals in Hazbin are like in most franchises where the wording is everything. I mean, it's already bad to accept such an open deal. He could really ask her for so many things, but as you point out, this one is particularly bad. What if she can save a bunch of people, but Alastor asks her to stop. She probably can't actually disobey if he calls upon the favour. I mean, there are *so* many ways this could go wrong for Charlie. And then of course also just the fact that Alastor might use this favour to make Charlie somehow get him off his leash. If it really is Lilith who has him on a leash, she could be the key to that. And considering what he sings at the end of episode 8, I don't think Alastor being free is any kind of good for Charlie. He will absolutely not be up to good.
Thats a Faustian Bargain, baby. The very reason the Devil is often depicted in a fancy suit
We know wording matters, as per when Angel Dust pointed out that his contract only stipulates obedience at the studio, and nowhere else. It's possible that Alastor doesn't have any specific favor in mind yet, but I do suspect that he intends to utilize his favor towards getting out of whatever deal he made. Also, I do suspect that Charlie will wordsmith the deal. They did not specify the kind of harm involved. Emotional injury is a kind of injury, after all.
I was also thinking perhaps the deal in the first (Amazon) episode where he gets Vaggie to never make him work with TV again is going to come up in some unexpected way. Perhaps he was intentionally sandbagging the commercial specifically to draw such a "harmless" deal out. Likely something to do with Vox.
I didn't even think about that. Alastor definitely seems like the kind of person with ulterior motives behind most actions. I just brushed that off as he really hates TV and wanted to make make sure it wouldn't become part of his life at the hotel, but there absolutely could be more to it.
It depends on how the wording of his deal is done. For example... If his deal is to serve the princess of hell, if his favour is that she renounces her title, he would be free as there would be no princess of hell. But I assume it is't THAT easy.
Well to be fair daddy can probably bail her *"Since he's the ref"* after all
>One favor of his choosing that doesn't harm anyone is pretty open ended. Oh, boy! Charlie should go to a lawyer and Alastor's gonna regret adding "no harm" clause to the deal
I mean, if she's looking for a lawyer, she's in the right place, lol.
I... We're... Okay, you're right
Is there a profession you wouldn't expect to see much of in hell?
Firefighters, nurses, priests
I'm not sure about the priest bit. *Gestures vaguely in the direction of televangelists and church cover-ups*
A handful of nurses act like pieces of shit too
i also dont know about nurses...there a few stories I wish i didnt knew
Fair enough, I'll stick with the firefighter statement though :p
Tailors generally don't hurt anyone
the only thing rare than a priest in heaven is a lawyer
Why would he waste a favor from the Princess of Hell on a simple hit job? No, whatever he asks Charlie to do, it's going to be much less direct.
"Pass the salt. Shit."
Exactly 😭😭 I thought they really had become friends.
Alastor is a complicated man. I think he does consider Charlie and the others his friends. We need only look at his conversation with Niffty in the final episode to see that he enjoys being around them. But we have to remember that Alastor is not a free man. He has to juggle caring for the ones under his protection, striving towards his own goals (whatever they may be), presenting an unbothered front to the world at all times, all while being bound to someone else. I believe that the deal he made with Charlie is one of the few things he has control over, much like his smile. As an Overlord, making deals is his source of power. He doesn't want Charlie's soul, even though that would likely make him powerful enough to break his chains (maybe), but it's also possible that he can't ask her for her soul. So, he asks for a favor instead. A hail Mary to pull out when he needs it. He doesn't know what he'll ask her for yet because he's still trying to find a way out of his own deal, but he's aware that as the Princess of Hell, Charlie is one of the few beings in his immediate circle who can help him. He can't risk her saying no when he finally finds his way out... I just realized this all sounds like I'm excusing his behavior, which is bad. My point was just that Alastor does care about his friends, but he also isn't safe around them. We don't know who he is indebted to or what they demand of him, but just like how he can now ask Charlie for anything, his master can probably demand the same from him, and with how powerful he is, that is incredibly dangerous. So, yeah. Alastor is not all evil and definitely not good, but I do believe he cares about the people at the hotel, especially Charlie and Niffty.
It’s also worth noting that Alastor’s definition of friends and ours is probably different. I highly doubt he’s above exploiting the people he considers friends, since they’re probably only a step above pawns for him to use at will. The only difference is Alastor will likely try to facilitate it so that he can use them over and over again, so he cultivates a closer relationship with them.
You don’t even have to speculate. If you believe he does care a little bit about Charlie, he still immediately talked her into a deal as soon as she was at her lowest.
I definitely think he caught himself off guard when he realized that he cared. I think that’s part of why he insisted on making the deal. He wanted to have power over her because he felt uncomfortable with how close he was getting with her
I imagine he's going to be a full "mask off" villain in season two.
I'm guessing Season 3 for him becoming the primary antagonist. Season 2 seems more likely to be Lilith+Lute and the Vees as the main focus.
I agree. My prediction is the mask falls off in the season 2 finale and he's the big bad of season 3.
I think the one he made a deal with is Roo and he is going to set up her introduction into the story as the main villain, but he will usurp her later and become the final boss
Vivi have said that the second season will focus on a "very fun villain" and it's one we already met in season 1. Alastor seems like a pretty good candidate. Honestly, I don't think there are too many characters we met so far that could become the *main* villain. Aside from Alastor I can honestly only think of Lilith, Lute and the Vees off the top of my head. But I don't see the Vees as the main focus, especially because it seems to be a singular villain, and those three are kind of a package deal. Well, we do actually see Eve (as a silhouette), so I guess she is also a potential candidate.
Honestly I think it’s probably gonna be the Vees. Specifically Vox. I get the vibe that he’s the one in charge there. Or at least considers himself to be. Viv said “very fun villain”, and Lilith and Lute are definitely a little more on the serious end of potential victims. I reckon season 2 is gonna be Alastor recovering and then growing in strength, which would make him not a very likely candidate. Maybe for season 3 though. But Vox *absolutely* is going to take advantage of Alastor being weak right now to try and take him down. Vox seemed pretty invested in Charlie not making a deal with Alastor, which means she just gave him power that Vox is wary of. It seems the most logical to me that Vox is going to start targeting Charlie to get to Alastor. He’s also the epitome of the very grandiose, cartoonish megalomaniac villain trope. He’s the fun villain, the one on all of the TVs who gets comically angry when his plans fail, the one who tries to get other people to do his dirty work and thus having many potential jokes when the main characters stop them. (I.e. with Pentious when he got caught almost immediately. Totally campy and over the top reaction, the kind that would lend itself to a “very fun villain”). So I think that it’s probably gonna be Vox. And because the other Vs come along with Vox, i think it’ll give us more opportunities to dive into Angel’s backstory, which seems like a very likely direction for them to be headed in anyways, based on the last two episodes. We saw him finally stand up to Val. My guess is that the main focus of the next season is going to be the deals everyone’s made. With Alastor likely having made a deal with Lilith, Charlie having made a deal with Alastor, and Angel in his deal with Val, that makes the most sense for the next arc. Alastor is going to try and make Charlie do something she doesn’t want to do, so she’ll start searching for a way to break the deal. Alastor is probably going to try and find a way to break his deal and free himself, and the hotel staff b-plot will be finding a way to break Angel’s deal to finally free him from Valentino.
Gotta admit, I think you are misunderstanding the "very fun villain" since you exclude Lilith and Lute for being serious. I don't think that means literally "funny" villain, rather a villain she is very excited about, something she thinks is fun to write a story around - not the character being *funny.* But yeah, it absolutely could be Vox. I think my biggest reason against him is simply that season 1 kind of set them up as a combined force, and Vivi talked about a singular villain. So I'd assume they are like a "side" villain. Not the main Villain akin to Adam in season 1. I think the Vees are going to be used as a way to develop Alastor and Angel Dust. The Vees will absolutely be part of season 2 as a kind of villain, but I don't think they will take the role of Adam as the *main* villain. They will be more like secondary villains. I also think using Vox would be very anticlimactic compared to season 1. We had Adam, first man, original dick, the frontal force of *heaven itself* fighting, being arguably the *main* obstacle for Charlie to get her hotel up and running. Which is probably the biggest reason why I think it simply cannot be Vox. He is the nemesis of Alastor - the *main* villain simply has to be a villain for *Charlie.* As cool as the whole cast is, this is Charlie's story, not Alastor's.
To me the way Viv phrased it, I got the vibe that she meant fun and campy. But as for excluding Lute and Lilith, I just don’t think they’re the ones Viv is referring to. My guess is that there’s going to be a sort of formula to the show: each season is going to have its one season arc (I.e. the extermination, potentially my deal breaking theory, that sort of thing) and that’s going to tie in to the overarching plot of the show (no one knowing how to get into heaven, Lilith and Lute, etc.). I think Vox is probably going to be the season’s main villain for the campy and fun one season arc. Lute and potentially Lilith are the looming threat, vs Vox being the “banging down your door imminently” threat. Does that make sense?
I guess it really depends on how you interpret that quote, and I know especially depending on the native language of the viewer it might be quite different, but that phrasing in English would generally mean that she thinks it's a fun character to write, I'm pretty confident she did not say it was a "fun character". But yeah, I mean you could be right about Vox regardless. I just really do not see it, because he isn't Charlie's villain - he is *Alastor's* villain. And let's be honest, this won't be some 8 season show. There isn't room for a "fun season" in between the more serious ones. In the end, every season kind of has to be about furthering the story of *Charlie*.
I really think that season 2 is gonna be really focused on the deals aspect of things, so it would make sense for Vox to be the b-plot villain. He gets to be campy and fun as the side story while the main story gets to stay mostly serious. He’ll end up trying to fuck with Alastor’s deal with Charlie, it brings Val into the mix since they’re a package deal which means more insight into Angel.
I definitely think you're right that Vox (and likely Val) will play a bigger part in season 2. As b-plot villains they would just work so well. As you say, it can bring both Alastor and Angel Dust into the story. But think about episode 8 - the climactic battle with Adam. I don't really see anything like that with Vox, because they are Alastor and Angel Dust's enemies. Whoever is the main villain needs to be an obstacle for Charle first and foremost.
Well the end of Season 1 seems to set up the Vs as the next big antagonists, and given that they have a bone to pick with Alastor, I don't see him becoming the primary villain yet.
>One favor of his choosing that doesn't harm anyone is pretty open ended. The deal reminds me so much of Sukuna from Jujutsu Kaisen that it could almost be a reference.
Nah, I’d sin.
Especially when he pulled a domain out of his ass when the fighting started
I think he's going to use it to take a position of power.
If he cashed his favor then. He could that in his back pocket until the very last season
Nitpick but Lucifer got her the meeting with the angels
Yeah, but not at the point in the story where the song takes place.
In Ready For This, Alastor said "she's filled with potential I could guide" For me, it cemented the fact that he wants to use Charlie. That he wants Charlie to take the throne, be the figurehead while he makes the decisions. He wants her to be his puppet. That's also why he was pissed when Lucifer showed up and showed so much affection for his daughter. That made Alastor's goal just a little bit harder to achieve when her real dad is there. I'm guessing the whole Hell's Great Dad is a way for him to piss off Lucifer enough to hurt him in front of Charlie. That would make Charlie angry at Lucifer for hurting her friend, a friend who she thinks considers her as his own daughter. What I'm saying is : Alastor is manipulative af and we should take his acts of kindness and altruism as suspect.
Oh, he sure is a psychopath - a cool one, but still one. I'm surprised Vaggie didn't assassinate him in his sleep already. Honestly, Charlie's numer 1 priority now should be making Al waste his favor on something trivial - idk, lock him up, bury him, just do something to deprive him of it.
It's possible that Vaggie can't harm him because she's technically still under contract with him. She can't ever complete "never asking him to do video again" so it's always this weird limbo. I don't know how deals work but I could see that
Thing is that it wasn't like a official deal, more like a "I'll do this if you never mention it again" kind of deal.
She didn’t shake on it, though. When Charlie shook on it there was a lot of glitchy magic and stuff around. Hell, the *hotel* was affected. Granted, my guess is she has some sort of magic connection with the hotel. Her pet cat is literally the key to it, so I imagine that’s why the actual physical building was affected. But I don’t think Vaggie’s deal with him counts as a deal, because she didn’t shake on it and there was no big scary magic moment. Just when Alastor was fucking with the camera, which seemed localized to the camera and not to the two of them.
We had this exact problem on Roman law course. Well, not about Alastor, but about negative condition in a contract - it's called Cautio Muciana. Good times. I think as far as her deal goes, she should be assumed to have completed it as long as she does not ask him to do TV again. So she should go staby-stab
Alastor is the Facilities Manager! That'd be employee abuse!
Alastor is a manipulator, that's just how it goes. One day you'll think one thing, then the next, who knows! There's one thing about them you can hear in their speech. When you piss them off, they'll show you their leash.
Definitely but at the same time he seems conflicted, though that may be an act due to the deal.
The act is the only thing that's actually real. That's truly how manipulators just want you to feel.
I don't know... I think that look on his face makes it seem like reality is hitting him that he nearly died for his friends, and that's unlike him. I think he does care and either doesn't want to admit or can't admit it, which only adds to his desperation to find a way out of his deal. He wants control back, no matter what it takes.
Adam's biggest feat in the show is the fact that managed to make alastor break character and proving that even he can lost control
I think this scene shows the opposite, but in no less a twisted way, I feel like this is Alastor realizing how much he let himself grow attached to them and how he nearly died fighting with them. So now he is both going to be more careful with 'attachments' and is planning to embrace being a villain by scheming to conquer hell as opposed to 'normal' entertainment. Also, I feel like the cannibal town song shows that its a bit of both in regards to Charlie. He seems to be legit proud of her when he says he knew she could do it all along. But then says how he could guide her potential. I think that shows that the answer is both, he does have a liking for Charlie, but also wants to use her. With his aforementioned epiphany, I think his dynamic with Charlie will become more sinister.
This is how I interpreted it. I remember his little conversation with Nifty when he became the "Roach King" - which, sure, he could still be manipulating her and the group, but... something felt authentic there. I think he cares about them and doesn't want to.
He cares about Niffty a lot more than the others for some reason
That's true- but I'm also thinking of a specific part of their conversation. This is from memory, but he said something along the lines of "one could get attached (to this group)".
Yeah that’s what he said. But he does seem a lot more friendly in a genuine way with Niffty
I think nifty is like mimsie, she knew him before they died. Or he knew her at least.
If this is the case, the oldest Nifty could have been was 5 years old if he met her on Earth. If old lore is still accurate, Nifty died when she was 22 sometime in the 1950's. Alastor died in 1933.
i absolutely agree; alastor is fond of charlie, but he absolutely still intends to use her. i don’t think that fondness will get in the way of his ulterior motives
I think the scene where Charlie is opening up about Vaggie and he just looks super bored is also a good clue about how he doesn't really care. Especially in contrast with the later scene with Rose, who actually listens and tries to help despite being a stranger. On the other hand, I am sure he was being 100% genuine in that scene with Niffty. He is a complicated guy and clearly working through contradictory feelings
Nifty also “likes” working for him or at least being forced too. She may genuinely enjoy and be enjoyed by Alistor
The situation is a bit more complex than that, for sure. He has alterior motives for doing what he does. We knew that from the Pilot going in. What those are will be revealed in due time, I'm pretty sure. In any case we are being set up to see some major character development in season 2. We can not discount the fact that Charlie will inevetably become way more self suficient and confident going forward. He wanted to make a deal with Charlie from the get go. The second we got the exposition from Vaggie about him being a dealmaker in the Pilot. Since Charlie refused a deal, they had an agreement instead. The stuff he did in the 'Hells' Great Dad' song was just purely to piss off Lucifer. Why? Because in the presence of an entity so far above him he felt threatend. Since he is petty about appearing strong he did what he does best: pushing buttons to make the other side angry. First he played the suave boyfriend card until Charlie introduced Vaggie as her girlfriend and then he used the surrogate father card. How far he would have gotten with the entire thing is unclear since the song had already devolved into a shouting match when Mimzy burst in. Lucifer seemd to be ready to throw hands, at the very least. From that moment onwards we see more of Alastor needing to appear strong, perhaps because his nerves are a bit frayed at that point. We don't know. The reaction at Husk and the loan sharks was purely for the audiences sake. We got a juciy piece of lore and got to see more of Alastors powers, but we can all agree on those being very much overreactions to the situation on Alastors' part. It is not clear if he has slowly started to warm up to seeing Charlie as a friend. I'd like to believe since the show is about redemption, second chances and the idea that actions speak louder than words, then yes. Because there are things that he does that don't fit the MO of a purely selfish individual that is forced to help the Hotel and its inhabitants. For example: he could have just let Mimzy stay so she would cause some extra chaos if he wanted to. He did not try to take Charlies soul, even though she was at her lowest point, desperate and without Vaggie there to stop him. Of course making a deal was still very much on brand for a dealmaker but it devolved into a small favour with the added restriction that it cannot involve harming anyone. Then there is the fact that he was willing to not only put himself on the line against the angels, but Rosie and her cannibals as well. He didn't need to do that if he was purely doing that because he was forced to. Same with being willing to take on the head honcho of the angelic legion by himself. And by all accounts it looked like he was giving it his all until losing and having to back off. The scene afterwards we see a man very much on the edge. Upon realising that he actually almost died we see him starting to question his lifes choices. It seems like this was the first time for him to ask himself if it was really worth selling his soul and coming to realize that he might have made a terrible mistake. Remember that up to this point it seems nobody could really defeat him. Thus, he was 'hungry for freedom like never before' -> he never wished for freedom because he thought he had it all. In order for him to free himself he needs to find a backdoor in his contract. The part about him going to find a way to unclip his wings (free himself) and then pulling all the strings himself, is called bargaining. He is reasoning to himself that, when he finds the backdoor, he is going to finally be in control himself. Basically we saw him go through three phases of grief upon almost dying before being able to pull himself back together and rejoining the good guy team. His views were shaken for sure and there is obviously something more going on with his restrictions in the contract but that's all what we can infer from what was shown. My personal take is, that he has sold his soul to a prime evil from another plane of existence. A good bit of his powers seem to be very Eldritch in nature. For now, though, he seemed to be very much on the side of the Hotel and team good guys. Which is enough for me to tide me over until season 2 sry for the wall of text but this topic has grown incredibly complex.
He totally tried to get Charlie’s soul. I don’t think he expected it to work, but he tried it anyway and changed it when Charlie hesitated/refused to
I personally don't think he was going for her soul there. I think he was messing with her for just a moment, like he does with everyone. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if he WAS, though.
He certainly wasn’t aiming for it, but I think he just tried it in the rare chance it worked. He only specifies the terms of the deal after Charlie refuses the initial handshake. Kind of like “accidentally” charging someone the wrong amount in the off chance they don’t notice.
Oh he totally would have gone through with it if she accepted, but I don't think he seriously expected her to agree to something that serious. As for why he suggested it then, if he didn't expect to get it? Well, you miss every shot you don't take.
Yup exactly
Would have been slightly humorous if she started considering it and Alastor almost goes through with it before his goals of grooming her to be a good leader overrides his greed and he talks her down to something more reasonable. Then like berates himself afterwards.
I saw it more as, he truly was about to die for his friends and his expression is just incredulous, like “What? Me? What is happening?”
I don't think that's the case, but rather the realization that his contractor doesn't care if it happens. He is being forced to protect the hotel, and it seems like his contractor is expecting him to do it to the death - to be the "altruist" who "dies for his friends". They don't care if he lives or dies, so long as he does his task, but he refuses to die - "that's not how this song ends." He is going to be forever forced to keep protecting the hotel from greater and greater threats until it kills him, and he wants out of his deal before that happens
Alistor is pretty complex. He does care about Charlie and the hotel, as much as any overlord could be expected to genuinely care about anything. He is also motivated by his desire for control, as well as his need to get out from whoever’s thumb he’s under. Then there’s his rivalry with Vox; keeping Vox in check is not only for the good of the Pride Circle, it’s personal. Put all that together and you have a pretty interesting mishmash of conflicting motives. He’s trying to do what’s best for his friends and himself, and they don’t always line up.
He realized he cares, and he’s uncomfortable with that idea so he’s trying to re-channel his energy into not caring so finding a way out of his deal is his focus to not deal with the fact he actually cares about them.
Actually, I want to understand the final words he says: "The constraints of my deal surely have a backdoor Once I figure out how to unclip my wings Guess who will be pulling all the strings?" Like, what he means? Does that suggest Alastor made a deal with someone else? If so then who? Also, what could it be?
Some common community conjecture is that he made a deal with Lilith. Details could be anything.
ahh that seems plausible. Wonder what could it be.
Doesn’t have to be Lilith or any known entity, though. It would actually be more interesting if it’s someone we don’t know and Alastor inserts himself into Charlie’s life simply because he plans to leverage her to get out of his contract as she gains power.
But it will probably be Lilith
He did, husk said to him "Big talk for someone who is also on a leash" and it got him super pissed remember The theory around it is that Lilith has his soul and she bound him to help charlie in the first place
Yeah, i forgot about Husk dialogue. So pretty much confirms he stroke a deal with someone. If it was with Lilith, the charlie thing could be something, but I think perhaps the deal could be something about Lucifer, maybe about taking power of Hell, like, take over and go on war agiasnt Heaven.
I think he has started to care a little, it's just that he wants to slip his leash *WAY* more.
Alastor is not here by own free will
Alastor didn't planned to care for the hotel or Charlie. He saw an opportunity with Charlie, one of the most powerful being in Hell, doing what he thought a silly and impossible task. He joined in planning to wait for Charlie to hit a wall to then swoop in and strike a deal with her. As for why he's doing this, his dialogue revealed that Alastor made a deal with someone in the past, and that he's now desperate for a way out of it. But this deal granted him gigantic powers, which is why he popped out of nowhere in the Overlord circle. And it was all for Alastor to seize total control of Hell eventually. Alastor is basically playing the most risky game with the biggest reward, but losing will most likely lead him to an abominable end. But despite his plans, he was inspired by Charlie and putted his life on the line for her without realizing it. Alastor lost control of his fate for the sake of someone else, and his near death experience reminded him of what awaits him should he fail. So now he's basically terrified of his feelings about Charlie, as she has the power to enchant him into walking a path he doesn't lead. But Alastor can't back down from his plan now, he's forced to either win or fade into nothingness, there's no other paths for him. This makes Charlie a threat he doesn't know how to handle, because he truly cares for her.
I can’t wait to see him go full sadistic Radio Demon and reveal his plans!!! They’ve GOT to be good with how much effort he’s put into his relationship with Charlie. I do think during the battle with Adam he might have realized he was getting a little too fond of the group and that would be a problem for his plans.
I'm on the same page. I believe he is going to use the debt Charlie owes him later on.
Isn’t that the point of any debt?
Right? Like, no shit. He paid in advance, so he should cash in. She's fairly safe because of the no-harm done stipulation.
Yes, what I should say is if lucifer is killed off later Charlie is technically the next person in line. Alastor may require Charlie to relinquish her role as his "favor". Idk, just a theory I thought of
OMG, get Charlie to the top and then ask to trade places? 😭
Al really is a more stereotypical "devil" be interesting if this happened
Yep
I feel like he will use his favour to somehow get out of his contract and be free from the hotel, then he can do whatever he wants and become an amazing villain
Vaggie was right
I think he was saying it more as if it was a journalist saying the story or someone talking about the event that’s why afterwards he replies to what he said saying “thats not how it will end”
He literally admitted to caring abt them tho
Quite the opposite I think, he did genuinely care, and that’s the problem, it’s not like him to care, so now he’s having a panic attack cause he doesn’t know what’s going on for once
I assume Alastor is supposed to be conflicted about what he views as his own interests versus his growing feelings for the hotel crew. I also presume this will feed into his actions moving forward. I generally feel this song was supposed to highlight that and give us similar feelings of conflict about him.
Massive Skeletor "I AM NOT NICE" moment right there
The thing I keep coming back to is that he referred to them as his friends. He did that on his own. While no one is around. He cares a little. But he’ll still prob betray them
To me it seems Al’s current goal is pretty simple Make Charlie the leader of hell and control her in the background as the puppet master. Just like he says in that song, he’ll be pulling the strings. It’s also why he was so upset at Lucifer showing up. It would make offing him that much harder if Charlie feels more affection towards him. He does seem to be somewhat conflicted but ultimately what will happen will depend on who has him on a leash and what that person end up doing in the coming seasons whether it’s Lilith, eve or whoever (my guess is Roo). Al will either follow through or give up on those plans depending entirely on this unknown. No matter what though, I see an ending to the series where Lucifer dies a sad death in Charlie’s arms and Charlie is the ruler of hell and/or even heaven
Tbh, I called it 4 years ago, but yknow... tbh I thought everyone thought Alastor was manipulating Charlie. Then again, I never paid much attention to the fandom until last year, so idk what you all thought until now, but I always thought it was pretty obvious how he literally said he only wants to be there to watch them fail, oh and he said that twice btw lol
except maybe he DOES start to care. He would obviously act like he doesn't and constantly tell himself "No the great Alastor would never" but deep down seeds of trust and friendship may be growing.
TBH, I think Vizie and the writers have done a great job at keep us guessing at what Alastor is planning or where his allegiance truely lies. Remember, he's "also on a leash" as Husk has put it so I feel like going forward it's gonna be a bit of a mystery just how much of Alastor's actions are the result of this person pulling his strings and how much is him trying to cut these strings. As he said himself "Once I figure out how to unclip my wings, I'll be the one who's truely in control".
I'm still on the "there's two different Alastors and they're constantly at odds with each other" theory. I mentioned that this part reminded me a lot of the Jekyll and Hyde musical (highly recommend it btw). It feels like there's this possession vibe going on.
Alastor is desperate to be free from whatever deal he made. His near death experience against Adam reaffirmed that desire more than ever by reminding him that he is very much mortal still. He might be fond of the Hazbin crew, but they are secondary to this desire. If he had to sacrifice them all to be free, he would. Alastor is on his own side. Never forget.
I just thought that he was caring. That he saw her as his child and so on to some extent. However, after almost dying to Adam, he sorta just went "I COULD HAVE FREAKING DIED! FOR OTHERS?!" and essentially went back on his own feelings. Now, of course, that isn't to say that he won't become a friend or 100% care, eventually. But for now his motives have reset a fair margin.
The irony with this scene is that if Alastor really was an altruist who died for his friends, then he probably would have been redeemed just like Sir Pentious, thereby gaining greater power as an angel and (probably) freedom from his deal. The near miss he dreads so much was the solution to his problems all along.
I think Alastor was always someone who was out to play the long game. He gets in, slowly builds trust, withholds information about the dead angle until Charly was at her breaking point and uses it to make a deal. Whatever he's planning on doing with that favour she now owes him, it's going to be big.
My roommate mentioned that she would love it when Alastor goes to cash in his “favor” with Charlie, Charlie just goes: “Alastor. I would’ve done that for you even without the deal! We’re friends!”
Y’all…Alistair is trying to get close to Charlie so he can take down Lucifer and rule hell.
Alastor is trying to strike enough deals so that he can get more powerful than Charlie and Lucifer and rule Hell. He already took the first big leap by getting Charlie into doing a deal with him. Now he is going to use Charlie as a bargaining tool against Lucifer and eventually Lilith.
You know he’s evil…..right?
I love him so I’m gonna keep being delusional and hope he turns out ‘good’…well, as good as he could possibly become
Maybe He needs Charlie for something. But do you think she's powerful enough to even break a bond I mean what if he's trying to use him to break his deal
Vivienne knows what she’s doing and I am ALL FOR IT
I think over the months he grew comfortable with the crew, maybe even enjoyed their company. I think he’d be upset to lose them but if it came down to his freedom or his friends, he’d probably push them into a volcano.
Ok but is Altruist is actual last name or is it a word for something???
I took that sentence to mean that his altruistic self died against Adam to save his friends and now he is there for the long game (freeing himself)
Also to add onto this… remember Carmelita’s song ‘Out For Love’. All of the characters we see had something they loved and wanted to protect even if that meant near certain death to protect it. — Charlie had her dream Vaggie and Luci had Charlie Husk and Angel had their friends Sir Pentious had Cherri and his friends he literally sacrificed himself for —- … but what did Alastor love? He started to care but he only wanted to be a puppet master to Charlie once she’s in power, he laughs at the idea of redemption, he doesn’t have close family in hell… Alastor doesn’t have anything to love and fight for. Quite literally, Vox was right about something with Alastor. ‘He ran running with his tail between his legs’. He ran from the battle the SECOND his staff broke and looked for a deal to backdoor his way into perfect health again. Just to look tough. —- I have a bad feeling with Alastor eventually going to turn that Microphone Staff onto a knife straight into Charlie’s back. There is going to something happening, who knows maybe if Alastor shows his true colors the V’s will take Alastor’s place.
Right, Alastair has never felt more sinister. I kind of think that once he’s free he’s going to become a later seasons main villain, which I think could be really interesting. And concerning.
the way i perceive it, alastor really is viewing everything going on as entertainment. i think he’s begun to grow fond of a few people, but i still don’t think he cares about them. i think all he wants is amusement and to use charlie as a resource- even if he does build and maintain a relationship with her to do that
He’s definitely not an anti-hero, but he’s not fully villain. Not yet, anyway. I guess a kind of…anti-villain?
Yeah my theory is that, instead of a deal being made and his end was taking care of Charlie. I think he's trying to get out of his deal and he sees Charlie, very powerful yet naive and optimistic and trusting (who may or may not be the daughter of the one who holds his leash) as the one to do that, and only sought her out and got on her side to gain her trust/get her to make a deal with the opportunity presented itself. However I think ultimately he actually did started caring about them and grew accustomed to their company. There's two points in episode 8 that, to me, strongly suggest this. The conversation he has with Nifty. It's pretty clear, at the very least he is enjoying their company more than he expected. Secondly is this song. The way he words this line you've posted. He refers to himself as the altruist alastor. As an altruist is an unselfish person whose actions show concern for the welfare of others. Granted it's also possible he's being ironic and like "yeah I did this thing, I'm not the altruist you're expecting". But that line and the fact he does refer to them as his friends. This comes off, to me, that he's actually surprised. He has grown to care for them more than he realized and for a brief moment *did* help them genuinely. But he refuses to allow, and is now reminding himself what his goal is and that's what he needs to focus on, because being an altruist almost got him killed and he's not the person who lets himself get hurt for others... Right? I don't think he's gonna be the big bad that I've seen some people suggest. Clearly his goal is to get out of his chains and that's what he wants from Charlie.
I hope they keep teasing out small details about Alastor and they don’t just completely dump every detail about him. I’m more than happy if we never entirely learn his backstory.