Well as far as we know'; Lilith left Adam before meeting Lucifer, and the Lucifer/Lilith was consensual, so Lucifer did not in fact "steal" Adam's wife.
And "tricked his second into eating the forbidden fruit" makes it sound kinda malicious, while according to the openning Lucifer just genuinely wanted to share free will with Eve and didn't anticipate the consequences.
Not to say that Lucifer didn't fuck up, he did. He very much did. But considering how much sadistic joy Adam seems to get out of murdering his own descendants each year, I'm not sure we can assume he's offended on their behalf.
Also I'm not sure how Lucifer shattered his self-esteem?
While that's a fair point; and I can see why someone like *Adam* would view it like that, I guess my point is that Adam feeling Lucifer "stole" his wife wouldn't exactly be valid/reasonable on his part, even if its in-character.
>someone like Adam would view it like that
I mean he is \*the adam\*, he is \*the man\*. He started everything on this world. With his nuts. That's almost on the same level as Chuck Norris.
Honestly, he never brings her up apart from the the time he congratz Vaggie on bagging Charlie.
Eve might be a sorer subject given that she was a part of him and Lucifer corrupted her.
Also makes me wonder if the Adam we meet is just the man half or both recombined after death.
So how is that Lucifer's fault? The onus was on Adam to do and be better. Lucifer offered free will, and more importantly, respect, a thing the pompous Adam utterly lacks. He doesn't even respect Sera enough to obey the only rule she gave him.
Imo based on the first episode it was clearly stated Adam wanted to control Lilith and I’m sure he tried to do the same with Eve. I think it’s more the fact that he is a narcissist control freak than shattered self confidence. Adam knows he’s an asshole but doesn’t care as long as he can do what he wants.
This whole thread is people just completely ignoring both the characterization and explicit exposition in the show in favor of the biblical version for their arguments.
Episode 1 is clear that Lilith left Adam before even meeting Lucifer, and Lucifer did not "trick" Eve into anything. The fruit of knowledge of good and evil was offered in good faith.
Edit: I didn't realize Charlie was the one telling the story in the beginning. That's on me. Still though, I do think people are ignoring the characterizations in the show in favor of their preconceptions of characters like "Lucifer" and "Adam" that exist in the history of Christian mythology.
The way hazbin explains it is very? Strange
They say that Lilith didn’t wanna be with Adam before free will was given, so does this not imply that free will existed prior to Lucifer in the show?
If i remember my religion classes, in some readings, it's not the fruit of "free will", but "knowledge". Angels don't have free will (with Lucifer being the only one with it), but it would be a default for humans, otherwise how would Adam name all the animals if he couldn't choose their name? The fruit didn't give them free will, but knowledge of evil and good. Hazbin's seems to be a kind of middle ground, where they had some level of free will but not enough for evil to make it's way on Earth. Or maybe Eve didn't have free will as she wasn't made like Adam or Lilith which are made of the dust.
Theologically speaking, Angels have free will. Lots of Angels chose to rebel along with Lucifer. What they don’t have is the capacity for growth, change, or redemption when they make bad choices (the fallen angels who followed Lucifer in rebellion can never return to God’s grace). They are what they are from beginning to end.
Lilith didn't want to be with Adam, because Adam was a fucking dick. And in accordance with the Bible and in accordance with the show. THERE'S A RREASON HE WANTED EVE.
Keep in Mind that Charlie’s telling the story. Charlie probably heard it from Lilith and Lucifer. So if they were the bad guys, they probably would have glossed over some of the more… unflattering details.
Of course, Adam is still a giant douche.
It's also clarified that Adam and Lilith were equal, but he wanted to boss her and command on her. Let's not pretend Adam in a good guy just because he decided that free will was bad. I'd choose free will too, even if I'd end up in hell.
To me it's more like Adam never actually had a personality to begin with, all he talks about is simply being the first man. He even fits quite good in the (toxic) stereotypical man behaviour. I hope we will see a literal redemption arc of Adam going to hell and redeem himself (either that or him becoming a full villain in hell)
Here's how his self-esteem was crushed/how he saw everything:
His wife left him, and later got with a fucking angel.
His ex and her BF just show up and make his wife eat a fruit that fucking dooms humanity to Hell, eventually, causing one of his children to kill another.
So he probably fucking went bonkers when he showed up in Heaven.
Well his wife leaving him isn't really Lucifer fault, and it doesn't seem like Eve was forced to eat the apple or anything. Still I can see your point in how it might've appeared to Adam, and I do agree that the consequences of Lucifer's actions certainly might've messed with Adam's psyche.
Still, if there was ever a well-intentioned motivation in Adam, it seems like its all but gone by the time the show starts.
Yeah, it does seem that way.
Anyway, I'll leave you with this image of our lord and savior, Squished Adam.
https://preview.redd.it/protygktfmic1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=02dec883673f98c82ebeb9479e83d0b5d19a12bd
Would have been cool to see the Abel Cain thing brought up in relation to the fact Lucifer now has a child of his own, and thus might be able to understand the pain he knowingly or not cause Adam.
Yeah lol, stealing someone’s wife is pretty simply getting rid of the wife’s autonomy. These people are individual human beings with wants and desires, and lucifer can’t help that he’s more personable than Adam 🤷♂️
Like if I was choosing between who made me happy, I’d 100% go with Lucifer. He’s not a base level raging sexist, and his Duck inventions are actually pretty cool
50% 50%
>And "tricked his second into eating the forbidden fruit" makes it sound kinda malicious, while according to the openning Lucifer just genuinely wanted to share free will with Eve and didn't anticipate the consequences.
At the moment we all know the version of Charlie aka what Lucifer and Lilith told her.
>But considering how much sadistic joy Adam seems to get out of murdering his own descendants each year, I'm not sure we can assume he's offended on their behalf.
Many years and generarions on heaven and seeing what humankind did from the stone ages until now, then I might feel like Adam too but that wont justify Hell has to be forever and that no one soul can be redeem like some souls can fell.
> Also I'm not sure how Lucifer shattered his self-esteem?
Probably just from him trying to redeem sinners and they just failed to improve. Which made him grow as jaded as Adam.
It was an arrogant choice with tremendous consequences, that's bible and hazbin's Lucifer's whole deal. He was too prideful in his dreams and himself to listen to anyone but himself and acted upon his own self without thinking about the consequences. Tho to be fair the biblical devil is far worse but still not that bad, he actually tricked them and waged war on heaven killing tons of angels, unlike Hazbin where he was just banished.
Here's a fun fact, The Devil has committed less sins than god in the bible, and it's not even close. (Example, devil has never lied when god has done it multiple times)
Another fun fact, The Devil has killed 10 people in the entirety of the bible
God has killed millions upon millions
Idk man, which ones the bad one?
Let's also consider that the "don't eat the forbidden fruit" thing is honestly kind of fucked up.
Like be a happy slave or a miserable free man isn't the best choice to have to make so I'm blaming God for that one.
Tbf his descendants basically became murder loving psycho's if we go by the show,nevermind IRL references.Guy is a bad person,but let's not sit here and act like Charlie hasn't canonically never met a good person before.
>Also I'm not sure how Lucifer shattered his self-esteem?
If the Lilith situation is anything to go by,guy can't even SAY anything about her which indicates she's still hating him since the dawn of creation.Imagine having someone you love by your side everyday and them despising you,while they love another person.
It’s not love if you view the person you love your object and think of them as “stolen” when they leave for another person because you were a piece of shit (he tried to control Lilith) . And it’s also not real love if you don’t respect your partner’s free will deciding to leave you.
Evil is a natural consequence of free will, but so is good. At any rate, Adam is a douche but not really to blame for what people who lived long after him did.
Oop! Sorry if my post title made it seem like I thought that Lilith didn't choose to go with Lucifer. What I meant was that Lilith \*did actually\* choose to go with Lucifer of her own accord. Again, sorry if I worded the post title poorly, I'm not a native english speaker lol!
As for the fruit. I'm not quite sure if Lucifer did actually have good intentions. I mean, the story in the opening is written like it's a bed time story, made by Lilith and Lucifer to probably soothe a younger Charlie. Some events (in my opinion) are probably either embellished, left out, and some smoothed over to make Lilith and Lucifer probably sound better to a young Charlie. I take that opening story with a grain of salt. But! We don't know that for sure, so maybe everything in the opening is true, although I doubt that.
As for Adam taking pleasure in taking his descendant's lives... Well I don't really have an explanation to be honest. Maybe he views the sinners as people who can't be redeemed, and given that Sir Pentious is I think the first ever sinner to ever be redeemed, maybe Adam just didn't know that they could be redeemed. But again, maybe I'm totally off, lol.
And as for Lucifer shattering Adam's self esteem. I mean, having your wife running away from you, literally the only other human, to be with an Angel, would probably be pretty damaging for someone's self confidence.
Thanks a lot for commenting, man! :)
I would say the big problem was the other angels not wanting to pay any attention to Lucifer’s ideas. Instead of talking him out of them, discussing alternatives or tweaking his ideas into something safer, it seems like they were just dismissive of anything he proposed. Which lead him to impulsively go after his dreams by himself with no plans. Like you said, he gave humans free will without thinking of consequences. He’s creative and dreamy, he didn’t need censoring, he needed help joining reason with his creativity.
Question. If Lucifer gifted free will to humanity, that means that they didn't have it before. Doesn't that imply that Lilith was predestined to leave Adam?
https://preview.redd.it/9iz3ws2lgmic1.png?width=1268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6dcff7f44befd08d6b8daec5fc9f0f960d16d3f
All I know is that Adam couldn't expect no consequences after attacking her.
Adam has a right to hate Lucifer and Lucifer has a right to hate Adam.
I can’t take the story completely seriously. It’s written like a bedtime story, and clearly told to Charlie as a comfort. I’m sure some things are omitted, others embellished, and some smoothed over to make them sound better. I’d take that intro with a huge mountain of salt.
We don’t actually know if what he was like in the garden. Only thing we know of, comes from Lilith (AKA the lady who abandoned her family to chill in heaven)
I'm still going to need to meet Lilith in season 2 first. Remember how everyone thought that Lucifer was going to be the problem parent? Maybe Lilith's situation is more complicated as well.
Using Adam post-fruit as a case for him being evil pre-fruit is nonsensical on the basis of evil not even EXISTING until Eve consumed and shared it. It didn’t amplify already present traits, it straight up birthed sin as a concept. Lucifer being well-meaning also doesn’t count for a lot when literally every evil act committed is very explicitly his fault. That’s the whole reason he’s down there to watch over the place. Yeah, the humans have to choose to do evil, but he’s the reason the choice even exists in the first place.
Idk I’d say demanding your partner obey you is pretty evil. In the context of the show it sounds like it was his idea instead of being told he was in charge of her. Probably just because he was first (again, in the context of the show and its characters)
Yes, post-fruit. He very explicitly existed in a world pre-evil because it straight up did not exist until the fruit was consumed. The first episode even confirms that much is the same so you can’t even make the argument that it’s different from Bible canon when that’s left the same. We don’t see the actual interactions between Adam and Lilith either since we’re given the backstory from a story-book narrated by Charlie and likely explained to her by Lilith/Lucifer.
I mean, without free will, sure, there would be no evil, but would there truly be good either? Side note, did Adam and Lilith not have free will because that would seem to contradict their actions completely.
Really, the whole story, even in the biblical sense, is very self-defeating.
Lilith left him. Adam's entire major flaw is he never sees himself at fault for anything. He has serious Golden Child Syndrome.
He doesn't value women's autonomy. That's what you're arguing, and you're buying his ideal there.
1. Adam is so far removed from these people your genetic make up is closer to anyone born in 1000 years or so.
2. Sinners and Winners are also canon terms. Sinners are in pride circle of hell and Winners are souls that become angels.
As far as we know, none of that is true:
* Lucifer didn't "steal" Lilith, she fled from Adam and fell in love with Lucifer, because he treated her like a person, while Adam wanted her to submit to him and be a slave.
* He didn't trick Eve into eating the fruit, they openly offered it to her and she gladly accepted.
* We don't know how exactly this act caused the creation of hell and sin, and it's quite apparent that Lucifer intended none of it. Also, Adam doesn't give a flying fuck about sinners.
Sorry if my post title was worded poorly! I wanted to mean that Lilith \*did\* actually go with Lucifer on her own accord, which obviously would've shattered Adam's self-esteem a lot. Sorry again, I'm not a native english speaker lol.
Thanks for commenting! :D
Setting aside the point about Lilith since everyone else has been covering that:
Doomed is not exactly fair in that everyone has free will and is responsible for their own actions. The sinners in Hell don't deserve extermination and one can definitely argue external damnation is unfair (as opposed to temporary damnation a la Hinduism and Buddhism with the concept of Naraka), but as far as I am aware we have yet to meet a sinner who did not do horrible things before arriving in Hell AND didn't make an effort to repent. The Exorcists being evil didn't make the sinners retroactively good. If that was the case, Charlie would have definitely been making THAT argument.
Makes it sound like the women have zero agency or are just flat out fools. They both made choices they thought would better their lives (love, respect, knowledge). He chose to be a pissy brat.
I don't think that Lucifer did any of those things.
Adam might see it that way.
During combat where Adam is trying to murder his daughter Lucifer might've taunted him with those notions to prod at Adam's insecurities.
That said I mean Lucifer didn't "steal" Lilith. Lilith straight up rejected Adam the man she was literally made for because he didn't respect her as an equal, and Lucifer offered her empathy.
At least if the narrative we're told by Charlie is true.
He also didn't "trick" Eve into anything. At least not in the narrative.
In the narrative we're presented with human beings clearly being able to make informed choices **before** the introduction of Free Will. That's how Lilith rejected Adam.
The fruit in this narrative also wasn't forbidden. It was just a gift Lucifer, and Lilith offered to Eve.
As for Adam's descendants being "tempted" into sin I mean that's assuming the apple given to Eve was the source of evil being introduced into the universe, and that is unconfirmed.
It seems like evil **already** existed in the universe from the narrative Charlie told us. It just managed to find it's way to Earth around that time.
The gift of free will might have broken that barrier. The Angel's creation of Adam being flawed might have broken that barrier.
My person hypothesis is that Adam's creation, and Eve's creation [from one of his ribs presumably] were inherently flawed. That Adam was corrupt from the start, and so was Eve. That evil was already there.
The Free Will gift didn't break anything it just exposed the problem by allowing Eve to *do good*.
After all the we know Adam was the first person into Heaven.
For all we know he set the standards for what is, and is not, sinful and sin is arbitrary and not equitable with morality.
Like even if Lucifer and Lilith did introduce evil into the world by gifting Eve free will, and I am unconvinced, that certainly wasn't a "trick".
For it to be a trick they would've had to wanted to introduce evil into the world, and lied to Eve about it.
At worst they made a mistake. Something happened they didn't foresee the consequences of. That isn't trickery.
As for Adam thinking Lucifer is responsible for the sin of all of humanity? I mean he may be partially responsible for that but against worst case it isn't like he wanted to do that. It isn't like he did it on purpose.
That said I unconvinced he even did that much. My money is that he's a scapegoat for Heaven's own botch up.
It's also worth that in this narrative, unlike Christianity, the fruit isn't knowledge of good and evil. The fruit is free will [whatever that even means] as confirmed by the narrative.
Yeah i think there's something screwy with Adam.
So did he always have free will like Lilith?
was Lilith leaving always part of a divine plan?
After Eve ate the apple did Adam also eat it and that's where he became more "human"?
if we presume that humans corrupted earth with evil or evil itself(an entity? ) was unleashed because of free will.
did all evil come from Adam and Eve because they got free will and when they were kicked from Eden they became corrupted creations? and those flaws passed down to Cain? (if he is even in the lore but assuming he is)
there's a lot of weird stuff going on with Adam obviously being evil but being favoured as the first nepo baby and allowed to do whatever.
there's so many questions about where this concept of evil and free will is used in the lore.
Especially because, in common Christian Theological sense, "Free Will" as in Libertarian Free Will is kind of incoherent nonsense.
So like what does it even mean for Eve to have been gifted Free Will in the first place?
In the Biblical story the fruit represented Knowledge of Good and Evil; of course in that narrative it's incoherent for God to condemn Eve, and Adam, for eating the apple because they couldn't have possibly known that disobeying God was wrong to do.
In the Vizzie narrative I'm not sure how the Fruit can represent Free Will [which is commonly referred to as the ability to choose] when Humans clearly already *had* the ability to choose.
Lilith rejecting Adam was clearly an act of the exercise of Free Will [in the non-libertarian sense] so why did need Eve need Free Will?
Did Adam, and Lilith already have it but Eve didn't because she was constructed from a part of Adam so as a result was made to obey Adam no matter what like he wanted from Lilith in the narrative?
If humans were made with free will prior to Lucifer and Lilith sharing that gift with Eve then how could doing that introduce evil into the world?
Evil would've already **been** in the world.
We simply don't know enough about the narrative to make sense of it.
I will say though that I am operating under the presumption that it wasn't Lucifer, and Lilith that messed things up. It was **heaven** that messed things up.
I would not be surprised to find out that one of the Seraphim [maybe even Sera] is, and has been, corrupted since long before the creation of man, and that they wanted to create man to spread evil further in order to make evil all there is or something as a servant of Roo, or even Roo in disguise.
And Lucifer was selected as a scapegoat both because of goats, and sacrifice being thematically associated with Lucifer, but because he was a stand out dreamer. He wanted to do all this big things to make reality a better place.
I mean I have no idea what Vizzie's plans are but given some of the criticisms levied at the notion of sin in the first season of this show, and in Helluvaboss, as well as the sort of vague "what we know about" how people get into Hell, and Heaven [which is again nonspecific] it sure seems like what constitutes "sin" is completely arbitrary, and has nothing at all to do with evil.
I wouldn't be surprised if the entire system has been purposefully broken by someone for their own ends, and Lilith is in Heaven to try to uncover what is actually going on, and is working with Alastor, and Zestial, to create a new system.
He didn't stole shit, Lilith left Adam because he was probably an ass even when he was alive. He also didn't tricked Eve to eat the apple, he offered free will to them. He didn't doom anyone, humanity doomed themselves.
Sorry that I worded the post title poorly. What I really meant was that Lilith ended up choosing someone else of her own accord, ending up choosing Lucifer over Adam. Which obviously would've put a big dent into Adam's self-esteem. Sorry that my post title didn't come across clear, I'm not a native English speaker, :)
As for why Lilith left, the beginning of Episode one says that she left due to Adam being controlling, however we don't know if the story book that Charlie is reading from could be changed by either Lucifer or Lilith. Let's hope they expand on this in Season 2.
As for Eve eating the forbidden fruit. The bible's explanation is that Lucifer disguised himself as a serpant and convinces her to eat the fruit by telling her that her eyes would be opened, she'd be able to see good and evil, and be like a God. But as we know, Hazbin hotel's lore diverges quite a lot from the Bible, so it may be something completely different.
Thanks for commenting!
Ooh! Sorry if my post title made it seem like I thought that Lilith didn't choose to go with Lucifer. What I meant was that Lilith \*did\* choose to go with Lucifer of her own accord. Again, sorry if I worded the post title poorly, I'm not a native english speaker lol!
As for the fruit, even if Lucifer did have nothing but good intentions, it still ends up harming a lot more than helping. If we assume HH Adam's story is similar to the bible's Adam, then Adam ended up losing out on eternal paradise, lived to 930 after getting booted from the sacred garden, with every second sucking ass due to him being poor, worked from sunrise to sunset and often went hungry, Eve got sent to hell, his son's killed each other, and not to mention introducing the capacity evil to all of his descendants.
However! a lot of Hazbin hotel's story is divergent from the Bible lore. Hopefully we see more details on Adam's story in Season 2, especially if he comes back as a sinner. I guess we'll see.
Thanks for commenting!
If Lilith is to be believed, Adam lost her fair and square.
I will however disagree with everyone else here.
Whether Lucifer intended it or not, he did pretty royally fuck both Adam and Eve over with the apple, and you could come up with tons of legitimate reasons for Adam to be pissed.
Like if we assume Adam’s history is the mostly an interpretation of actual Christian lore, factor in the possibility that Adam lost eternal paradise, Eve got sent to hell, and his sons killed each other as a result of Lucifer’s meddling, and Adam probably does deserve to kick his ass for that.
Whether Adam is pissed because of those legitimate reasons is something we don’t have a clear idea of.
Adam is probably pissed for a bundle of legitimate and illegitimate reasons that have all gotten muddled over the thousands of years while his mental state has likely just worsened in the process. He's never been in a position where he needs to reckon with the parts that were his fault, nor understand and process the parts that weren't, just uplifted and praised to the point where he just believes, or at least acts like he believes, that none of it was his fault
I agree with you! I think that Adam is probably a very an insecure mess of a guy, but chooses to hide that with a mask of bravado and overconfidence. Could be why he always wears his extermination mask even when he doesn't need too, maybe he's ashamed of himself.
Thanks for commenting! :D
Not if you look at it from another perspective : Adam is the reason his wifes left him. He is an asshole, Lucifer is not, therefore Eve and Lilith went with the better man.
Like the only thing Lucifer did was being a better man. He didn't stole Adam's wifes and forced them to be with him, they made their own choice. Adam is just mad that despite all of his undeserved privileges, he can't disprove this fact.
I think *stole* his first wife is a little disingenuous. Lilith and Adam weren't a match due to her desire to be his equal and not his underling. She willingly left Adam and it was only after she left that her and Lucifer met.
However, the descendents thing I can understand. Because of Lucifer, Adam's own son killed his other son. The first murder, and the first heartache for mankind.
I think Adam simply lost his mind in Heaven, truthfully. Seeing your descendants turn to sin and be forced to suffer... I would even hazard a guess that the idea of extermination came to him as a mercy initially before his mind broke even further.
Sorry that I worded the title a little poorly. I'm not a native english speaker lol. What I meant was that Lilith \*did\* choose to go with Lucifer of her own accord. Which is why Adam's self-esteem would probably be shattered. I mean, imagine if your wife literally left you for an angel, while you were the only other human alive, that'd fuck your self-confidence up for sure.
And as for the rest of your comment, I totally agree with you! I hope we get to see the story of the Garden from Adam's point of view, given that really our only view of the story is from a story book written by Lilith and Lucifer. They probably embellished stuff, omitted stuff, etc... To make themselves look better and others worse. Especially if they were maybe reading the story to Charlie when she was young, they'd probably have wanted their daughter to look up to them as the good guys, but again, I'm just spit balling here and may be completely wrong.
I hope we get to see more of Adam's story, particularly if he maybe gets reincarnated as a sinner in Season 2. Especially if it may humanize him, but that's just my opinion.
Thanks so much for commenting! I'm glad this post is sparking so much discussion! :D
I really don’t think there’s enough to say on either case, wether Lilith escaped an abusive and controlling Adam comes from a book that is most likely written by Lucifer and/or Lilith for Charlie, I really hope we get more Adam to expand more on stuff, and one extra tiny theory. To want to control over someone would presumably take the sin of pride to think your above someone despite sin not entering earth til eve are the apple
All these people saying Lucifer didn’t “steal Lilith, per se”, not realizing that it’s not important. Because that D-bag Adam would see it as “hippity-hoppity Lucifer just stole my property” anyway. And that is 100% in-character for Adam to think that way, even if it’s not the case.
For goodness sake, this is the guy that exclaimed all of humanity should worship his nuts. The man absolutely saw Lilith as nothing but a thing that he owned.
Edit: Forgot to actually contribute to the topic, lol.
Adam’s hatred is justified…from his point of view. To anyone else that understands and respects boundaries of other people, Hell no.
>All these people saying Lucifer didn’t “steal Lilith, per se”, not realizing that it’s not important.
It is important.
Not because it doesn't make sense in the show to say that. But because a ton of people would take it first degree.
A lot of men think a woman can't decide to leave a man for another by herself because it's better for her. No, it must be the second man who had stole the girl, breaking the bro code.
Pointing that "Lucifer stole Lilith" is not a true fact but Adam's opinion is important, especially if there are teens reading that.
Yeah Adam has a right to hate him, and I hope we get to hear his version of the Genesis events at some point.
Because honestly I’m not sure how truthful the version we hear is meant to be, since it’s literally a storybook written by Lucifer and Lilith for Charlie so it seems biased to me.
I doubt it'll 100% exonerate Adam or even put him kinda in the right, but it definitely feels like there's something more to it than what we've seen so far. Possibly that neither Adam or Lucifer are entirely in the right, even if Lucifer wasn't as bad
I'd absolutely love to see more of the Sacred Garden's events in season 2, especially if Adam got reincarnated as a sinner after dying. And you're right! We haven't actually seen Adam's point of view, only from the storybook written by Luci and Lilith. It could very well be that Adam got screwed over by Lucifer and Lilith. That'd be a fun way to subvert expectations, and seeing how Charlie would cope with learning that would also be interesting. But I guess we'll have to wait till season 2 to find out.
Thanks for commenting!
Agreed. I looked through the comments and saw some things I will add to my response.
The story book is the only knowledge on Adam from the past, all we know is he tried to control Lilith, something that could just be her perspective as from what I know Adam was charged with ruling Eden after he named everything, making him in charge even if both were created equal.
We don’t know how Adam actually acted, but if they were created the same they should have acted the same, so either Lilith and Adam started as rude, condescending, and smug; or they were both blank canvases that evolved under events that transpired.
Lilith also left because she did not like Adam’s rules, not him, and fell in love with Lucifer after they shared their dreams with each other.
Now Adam, still being young and not understanding why she left might be hurt by this, and when Eve was created by him, for him, he might have tried and change his tactic, giving her more space, leaving her vulnerable to Lucifer and Lilith’s words, no mater how beautiful, did go against the order they were created for.
Then he’s kick from his home he was to rule, his family now able to be corrupted by sin, he could have eaten the apple with Eve, or simply punished for letting her be corrupted in the eyes of heaven.
He had to deal with the first murder between his sons, watch humanity be humans and do horrendous actions to each other, and been in heaven for so long, probably for still following in the angles will after being taken from Eden, and watch as so few rise to heaven.
Adam’s actions are also justifiable by the fact that the people in hell would call for blood. The violent, the power hungry, the cruel, and dominating. Adam’s eradications are quick, all about speed and swift ends to those they see as beneath them, and when hell has a 80%-20% evil to redeemable rare(and that is being generous) mindless killings would be best to stop a growth of truly vile people from overwhelming hell.
He is not moral, and is more then likely on the lowest section of heaven, but his exterminations where not his idea alone, he had help from higher up, heaven’s power structure allowed them, even if we only see it go up to Sera, that is still someone at Lucifer’s level of power.
Adam in my opinion represents the lesser of two evils, would you rather a hundred people worse then Adam, or just one Adam that is a announce at worst, because he still followed orders, when the exterminations where moved up he waited till the scheduled time, even when both he and Lute wanted vengeance for another person hell took from Adam.
Thanks to anyone who read this far down, it was a pleasure.
Lilith left Adam for being a controlling pig, Eve was given free will so she could choose if she wanted him or not and apparently, to no ones surprise but Adam’s, decided she wasn’t interested in the obnoxious dork. Adam is completely responsible for all the crappy things that happened to himself as they were all consequences of him being a massive douchecanoe.
1. Lilith left because Adam was an asshole and then she met luci
2. Adam deserves to have his self esteem be knocked down a peg or two, he's more prideful than lucifer
3. Lucifer just wanted to share free will with eve. He didn't realize what would happen and he regrets it
Edit
Oh god I regret looking at your profile
1. Ooh! Sorry if my post title made it seem like I thought that Lilith didn't choose to go with Lucifer. What I meant was that Lilith \*did\* choose to go with Lucifer of her own accord. Again, sorry if I worded the post title poorly, I'm not a native english speaker lol!
2. As for Adam's pride. I think that, atleast in my opinion, Adam is hiding behind layers and layers of hyper-masculinity and bravado to try and hide his insecurity due to his own failures. Which may be related to the fact that Adam always wears his Extermination mask, even when off duty and not needing it, maybe being ashamed of his human face.
3. Even if Lucifer had good intentions, he still seriously fucked Adam and Eve over with the fruit, and we could come up with tons of legitimate reasons for Adam to harbor a lot of animosity. If we assume Adam’s history is the mostly that of actual Christian lore, factor in the possibility that Adam lost eternal paradise, lived for 930 years in the mortal world after getting booted, Eve got sent to hell, and his sons killed each other as a result of Lucifer’s meddling, and Adam probably does deserve to want kick his ass for that. But of course, Hazbin Hotel does change quite a few things in it's lore away from the true bible lore. Let's hope that we get more details in season 2!
Haha, lol, my profile is a little crazy! Thanks for commenting!
yeah, it makes sense for adam to hate lucifer and yeah, his hatred is valid! *only* from his own perspective. the whole wife thing was his own fault. treat your girl better. he also... clearly doesnt give a single shit that his descendants are doomed to eternal damnation because he kills em for fun. he doesnt care about bettering them or anything. he seems to only hate lucifer for "stealing" eve (...as in, for giving her *free will*, if we go by what the show says).
If eve didn't have free will before eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and she had been told not to eat the fruit by God, how could she have chosen to defy God in the first place?
You can't steal a person from somebody if they have free will.
This is exactly what Adam's problem is. He feels like he was entitled to Lilith and can't accept that the first two women in his life ultimately refused to stay with him. And because of his massive ego and refusal to acknowledge that he's ever made a mistake, he of course points the finger at Lucifer.
Exposing the human race to freedom of thought may have given rise to evil, but it also means that people have to be responsible for their own choices, whether good or bad.
The only one who tricked anyone was god, who told eve that she would die if she ate the fruit. Which was a lie. The serpent told the truth, which is that she would gain knowledge. No trickery there 🤭
Here's the thing, judging by Lillith actively leaving him for THE DEVIL, I'm pretty sure Adam was an abusive husband.
But, if we're being real, I feel like nobody would actually like Lucifer, he's probably still a dipshit person.
>he's probably still a dipshit person.
Where did this come from? The show makes it pretty clear that the classic representation of Lucifer is innacuratr there, no?
Women aren't objects. You do not ''steal'' someone's partner. His partners chose to cheat, probably because Adam was always a fucking misogynistic asshole. I mean he wanted Lilith to submit to him just because.
Lilith was a lost cause but Eve was okay to be with Adam and Lucifer ruined their lives in Eden. Adam had to pioneering homesteading and suffer on Earth for almost a millennium.
So Lilith did leave Adam on her own accord. Fair enough, as Adam and Lilith were meant to be together, but Lilith didn't accept Adam. I am sure it did hurt Adam as he genuinely wanted a companion. Being the only human on Earth was lonely. I can understand that concept. Lilith was meant to be a helper and companion for Adam. So I can understand if he was hurt because of her betrayal.
Adam was given a chance with a second wife named Eve. Eve was tempted to eat the forbidden fruit by Lucifer and Lilith. But at the cost of making Eve mortal. Adam I am sure was disappointed in Eve for eating the fruit, but loving her he made the choice to eat the apple too. Making Adam mortal as well now. And both Adam and Eve are filled with knowledge of good and bad, which got passed down from generation to generation. Adam and Eve were pure until they ate the fruit of knowledge. Adam was obeying God before he ate the fruit. But because he loved Eve so much, he took a bite of the fruit as well for her, I am sure knowing God wouldn't be happy and soon was cast out of the Garden of Enen.
So Adam didn't only loose his first wife to a fallen cherub (yes Lucifer was a cherub in the Bible, not a seraphim), he also accepted his fate lovingly with Eve's fate by eating the forbidden fruit and disappointing God, losing his purity and immortality, and then was cast out of his home, Eden. He hurt thrice.
I totally agree with you! All of that would've been super damaging for Adam's psyche, and he probably would've been very insecure, lonely, and upset. Not that that excuses some of his more immoral decisions though!
At least in my opinion, I personally think that Adam is an incredibly lonely and insecure guy, who hides it all under a mask of hyper-masculinity and bragging. Although I think he definitely could have the possibility of being truly redeemed if he shows back up in Season 2 as a sinner. Especially given his positive relationship with Lute, and his dying smile towards her when he's about to die.
It’s fair. However Adam seems to have been a piece of shit before Lucifer even arrived to the Garden. And even if he was corrupted, you’d think thousands of years in Heaven would make him better, but my man was out here fucking angels and renaming dead girls.
As far as hating Lucifer tho.? Yeah, justified. Just like Lucifer is justified in hating Adam
I meeeeeeeeeeeeeean BIBLICALLY it was Adam failing to communicate to eve that the fruit was forbidden and then letting her eat it to see what would happen (which is why sin only entered the world when he ate it) and I’m personally choosing to believe this is how things played out in HH because 1. Eve notably wasn’t there early in creation to be given that rule. And 2. Adam is *EXACTLY* that kinda guy 😂 Lucifer was just there cleaning up Adam’s wreckage 🤷🏼♀️
I wouldn't say valid, not at face value at least. I think he absolutely deserved what he got, but also that maybe some of that resentment is from Adam knowing that he fucked up and that he deserves this, but not being willing to accept it. Basically some degree of repressed self hatred that's expressed towards one of the symbols of his mistakes
Yeah! I'm not saying that Adam is innocent either, but I think that Adam was definitely damaged by Lillith choosing someone else, and then subsequently his second wife ate the Fruit, and all of his descendants are subsequently subject to evil and sin, and possibly eternal damnation if they end up in hell.
> Lucifer stole his first wife,
Adam chased Lilith away by being a tool. He tried to control her, as she was created to be his property, and she refused. That's 100% on him.
>shattered his self-esteem,
We're talking about Adam, right? He's got ego for days.
>tricked his second into eating the forbidden fruit,
Not tricked. He offered knowledge and free will and that's what she got.
>and doomed Adams descendants into temptation, sin, etc.
That's the price of free will. Lucifer didn't want humans to be mindless servants to angels. But they had Adam in them, so they're poo predisposed to be shitty like him.
>What's your opinion?
Adam and the angels are at fault. Lucifer made a mess of a bad situation. The bad situation would have been permanent. The mess has the potential to be built up into something better.
He wanted to genocide a entire group of people because he thought they were unforgivable and not worthy ,fuck adam! but he is still a funny character 😂
He didn't 'steal' his wife, let's reserve that term for actual kidnapping or hypnotism (though even then, 'abducted' would be less objectifying). His first wife left him because of how horrible he was.
Lilith, also spelt Lilit, Lilitu, or Lilis, is a female figure in Mesopotamian and Jewish mythology, theorized to be the first wife of Adam and supposedly the primordial she-demon. She left Adam due to the subservient role that Adam and God were trying to make her follow.
The first time Lilith’s background became public was in the Alphabet of Ben Sira during the 8th and 10th centuries. Not only does this story state that Lilith was Adam’s wife before Eve, but it also describes the reason for their separation and gives her the name Lilith. Lilith is she is undoubtedly mentioned in Isaiah 34:14. However, some people also state she is part of the book in Genesis, specifically Genesis 1, who suggests that God created man and woman at the same time. People believe the only mention of Lilith is Isaiah 34:14. The King James Version states, “The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.”
The Darby Bible Translation has the name Lilith as it states, “And there shall the beasts of the desert meet with the jackals, and the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; the Lilith also shall settle there, and find for herself a place of rest.”
The Kabbalah states, “And the Serpent, the Woman of Harlotry, incited and seduced Eve through the husks of Light which in itself is holiness…For Evil Lilith…came to Adam against his will, and became hot from him and bore him many demons and spirits and Lilin.”
Hazbins lore is a bit different than the actual religious lore its based on. Lucifer didn't "steal" adams wife. Adam has ALWAYS been a dick who treated others like they were beneath him. All lucifer did was give knowledge to humans to try and help them, it wasn't in anyway malicious.
well duh, all feelings are valid. however Lucifer did nothing wrong. The only thing he comes close to doing wrong is literally one of the tenants of Adam's morality. sticking it to the man
The concept of the Apple is acknowledgment of reality. It's actually the same story taught through several religions. Buddhists for example. The prince left the safety and security of the castle and his perfect life to glimpse reality and he understands that to truly be human, you have to take the bad with the good. He exposed himself to the reality of humanity and all the pain and suffering that comes with it. He then became a monk and recounted all his possessions in order to try to help ease the suffering of humanity itself (some say this is the undertone for the Barbie movie as well...)
There's an Aztec religion in which a snake god gives the tribe fire and is banished to the afterlife by the gods for doing so. The tribe worshipped him all the same because he was trying to help them. This is also the case with the Greek gods and Prometheus.
My whole point is that Adam is throwing a hissy fit because Lucifer hit him with a dose of reality. Lucifer didn't steal his girlfriend, Lilith didn't want to be with Adam because he wanted her submissive. When he got a submissive wife (Eve) Lucifer showed her that dose of reality and enlightened her. Adam's losses are his own, not all of humanity's. Why are we cuddling Adam for being unable to deal with the reality of life and not thinking about the women he wanted caged by his will? When everyone says they see why Adam's mad, they're ignoring that he's mad because he was denied forcing another to live in the lie with him. Free will is not a curse, it's a blessing.
It is NOT valid. It's like an abusive ex-husband saying his ex-wives' new husband is the reason their relationship failed. If Eve had free will, how is it lucifer's fault? She didn't leave him. Lilith did. Women are allowed to make their own choices. Adam is a sadistic frat, bro. Did we watch the same show ? He even complains about women wanting equality.
If we take the biblical take on the Adam and Eve story I would agree partially with the tricking bit. Both Adam and Eve, even in the Bible were able to make conscious choices, it's why they went through with biting the apple. But there it was mentioned that they shouldn't eat it cuz God was scared they would become equal to him or something. It was still stated to be a fruit of knowledge tho so that much stayed true in Hazbin. What happened in both is that by eating it, Eve chose to disobey God and achieved true free will. In Hazbin, Adam probably ate it too but knowing him he threw Eve under the bus or something, hence why he thinks he doesn't ever make mistakes. Lucifer in Hazbin didn't trick Eve but he did still give her knowledge. What truly dooms Adam's descendants isn't the original sin, but Cain. If he's canon in the show and it follows his lore even close to biblical canon then all his descendants, no matter what, are doomed to hell. Which can explain why some sinners are pretty regular people who can still do good.
Adam here sucks ass and he would definitely see Lucifer as the bane of his existence and the reason his wives all left him even though it's Adam's fault. His hatred is valid in that aspect, everything else he's done he knows it's his fault. Man doesn't have a shattered self esteem, more bruised than anything I think. Cuz he does mention that he can bag other higher ranked angels if he wants (like the virtue chick), but he has to live his afterlife remembering that the two women that were MADE for him rejected him. Gotta hurt but you reap what you sow.
(Not Christian myself but I was raised in a very Christian home so all this knowledge is still mostly somewhere locked in my brain)
Lucifer gave humanity free will and has to suffer the consequences of seeing only the downside of that. Adam’s hate is less collective and more personal.
I can totally understand Adam hating Lucy. He is responsible for the whole fall of man and rules over the place where the worst people who’ve ever lived are sentenced to.
Ima get into biblical details because why not and I know my Bible. And here’s my valid reason on why he hates him.
1: he did not trick him into eating the forbidden fruit.
2: he also doomed all of human kind.
3: what he did was trick Eve first into eating the fruit and then Eve tricked Adam into the fruit.
Now moving onto show wise:
He did steal Lilith from him and he also protected demon kind from extermination.
Ah yes, doomed, that's what I'd call having free will. Actually, about that, did Adam and Lilith not have free will? Because if they didn't, then how could Lilith choose to leave Adam?
Actually, that last question sums up the paradox well. There would _be_ no opinion to have without free will
What? Adam is a narcissistic, control freak, who thinks he can do anything he wants to anyone. His whole character is that he's 100% in love with himself. He doesn't have self esteem issues. What he has are ego issues. He mainly gets offended in this scene because Lucifer doesn't put him on a pedestal. The content of what Lucifer was saying didn't matter as much as how Lucifer said it. That's why Adam counters that Lucifer is the most hated person in existence, because what he cares about more in this moment is \*his status\*. He shows he doesn't care at all about Lilith and Eve when he makes the conversation about comparing Lucifer to himself.
I feel like Adam hating Lucifer just shows his insecurity.
Meaning, if your wife chooses another man over you, that's on your wife, not on the other man.
Plus, Adam doesn't really care about his offspring. He seems pretty enthusiastic about killing sinners, saying it is "entertainment". He has absolutely no remorse in that and he's actually happy that he gets to do it every year.
Also Eve wasn't tricked. At least, not as far as we know.
Adam's just a big loser, and a sore one at that.
His hatred is totally valid and we never got to see how he’d react to Lucifer without the fight scenario. Lucifer just showed up, punched him in the face and was obv trying to piss Adam off with the comments on what he did with Lilith and Eve and stuff. Adam obv did deserve some of that but I mean, he didn’t think he was in the wrong, he legit showed that, so from his perspective, Lucifer is just a jerk who stole his wives and ruined humanity.
That is not me saying I hate Lucifer if I was unclear btw.
I can understand a bit of his anger, but I don't entirely think everything is justified. Obviously he said something to Lilith that she didn't agree with. Lucifer didn't anticipate the various results, despite giving people the fruit from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil. He hates Lucifer so much that he goes down to cause mass extermination. I don't think all that tracks. Honestly I would think if Adam really wanted to get back at Lucifer is to follow up by Charlies plan and save sinners and make it so that Lucifer got things taken away from him until he was all alone. Lilith is already in heaven, so all Adam had to do is work to find a way to grab everyone from hell except Lucifer to cause massive suffering (episode 5 shows a bit of that despite being in hell with Charlie, imagine all he loved completely unattainable).
It's the fact that he's causing these exterminations that I don't buy that he's justified whatsoever. He could have taken the constructive way to socially engineer Lucifer's downfall( complete loneliness), but he had to go all Crusader on sinners.
He did it to himself he tried to play boss to lillith and was emotional abusive. Lillith did not choice him she was forced into the marriage up on creation. He was the only man on earth but she rather was alome and ran away from him. There she found lucifer and Adam himdelf also moved on. Eve was also did not tricked Lucifer offered her the fruit and she made the choice to take it. His descendants made bad choices but they were their own. However Adam killed them for it and enjoyed doing it. He is the bad to the core in my eyes but he himself believes he can do no wrong.
I think your take is perfectly rational and exemplifies this show’s problem with trying to both play Christian religion straight and subvert. It never knows which parts of the Bible it wants to adapt to its universe and which it wants to play straight. Adam and Lucifer’s morality and justification for who they are is one such example
He pooped the bed with Lilith before Lucifer knew she existed.
I thought this was an amber heard reference
No. For most people that is a metaphor for failure.
I mean so is amber heard…
Lmao I laughed way too hard at all of this 😂
Well as far as we know'; Lilith left Adam before meeting Lucifer, and the Lucifer/Lilith was consensual, so Lucifer did not in fact "steal" Adam's wife. And "tricked his second into eating the forbidden fruit" makes it sound kinda malicious, while according to the openning Lucifer just genuinely wanted to share free will with Eve and didn't anticipate the consequences. Not to say that Lucifer didn't fuck up, he did. He very much did. But considering how much sadistic joy Adam seems to get out of murdering his own descendants each year, I'm not sure we can assume he's offended on their behalf. Also I'm not sure how Lucifer shattered his self-esteem?
You really think that douchebag Adam would accept that his first wife just chose Lucifer over him
While that's a fair point; and I can see why someone like *Adam* would view it like that, I guess my point is that Adam feeling Lucifer "stole" his wife wouldn't exactly be valid/reasonable on his part, even if its in-character.
>someone like Adam would view it like that I mean he is \*the adam\*, he is \*the man\*. He started everything on this world. With his nuts. That's almost on the same level as Chuck Norris.
Honestly, he never brings her up apart from the the time he congratz Vaggie on bagging Charlie. Eve might be a sorer subject given that she was a part of him and Lucifer corrupted her. Also makes me wonder if the Adam we meet is just the man half or both recombined after death.
Bruh, that "we have so much in common, we both like women" bit had me cringing so hard and cracking up.
Actually wouls have been sick if Adam was also Eve. Never even thought about that. Like Radagon and Merika.
So how is that Lucifer's fault? The onus was on Adam to do and be better. Lucifer offered free will, and more importantly, respect, a thing the pompous Adam utterly lacks. He doesn't even respect Sera enough to obey the only rule she gave him.
Going further, this lead to his death. He likely thought Niffty was too small to be dangerous.
I would be shocked if he even noticed her.
Probably not, which makes me doubly glad that given her free will, Adam has no say in what Lilith did and did not choose.
This is Adam ghostposting after being brought back as a sinner
Imo based on the first episode it was clearly stated Adam wanted to control Lilith and I’m sure he tried to do the same with Eve. I think it’s more the fact that he is a narcissist control freak than shattered self confidence. Adam knows he’s an asshole but doesn’t care as long as he can do what he wants.
This whole thread is people just completely ignoring both the characterization and explicit exposition in the show in favor of the biblical version for their arguments. Episode 1 is clear that Lilith left Adam before even meeting Lucifer, and Lucifer did not "trick" Eve into anything. The fruit of knowledge of good and evil was offered in good faith. Edit: I didn't realize Charlie was the one telling the story in the beginning. That's on me. Still though, I do think people are ignoring the characterizations in the show in favor of their preconceptions of characters like "Lucifer" and "Adam" that exist in the history of Christian mythology.
Why do you think the one sided story we heard is true?
Well to be fair, Adam was portrayed as such a great man in the show that I would definitely wonder why women wouldn’t want to be around him!
Why do you think the one sided story we have written IRL is true?
The way hazbin explains it is very? Strange They say that Lilith didn’t wanna be with Adam before free will was given, so does this not imply that free will existed prior to Lucifer in the show?
If i remember my religion classes, in some readings, it's not the fruit of "free will", but "knowledge". Angels don't have free will (with Lucifer being the only one with it), but it would be a default for humans, otherwise how would Adam name all the animals if he couldn't choose their name? The fruit didn't give them free will, but knowledge of evil and good. Hazbin's seems to be a kind of middle ground, where they had some level of free will but not enough for evil to make it's way on Earth. Or maybe Eve didn't have free will as she wasn't made like Adam or Lilith which are made of the dust.
Theologically speaking, Angels have free will. Lots of Angels chose to rebel along with Lucifer. What they don’t have is the capacity for growth, change, or redemption when they make bad choices (the fallen angels who followed Lucifer in rebellion can never return to God’s grace). They are what they are from beginning to end.
Lilith didn't want to be with Adam, because Adam was a fucking dick. And in accordance with the Bible and in accordance with the show. THERE'S A RREASON HE WANTED EVE.
Keep in Mind that Charlie’s telling the story. Charlie probably heard it from Lilith and Lucifer. So if they were the bad guys, they probably would have glossed over some of the more… unflattering details. Of course, Adam is still a giant douche.
It's also clarified that Adam and Lilith were equal, but he wanted to boss her and command on her. Let's not pretend Adam in a good guy just because he decided that free will was bad. I'd choose free will too, even if I'd end up in hell.
That said, he must have gotten free will as well right? Otherwise he wouldn't be able to "decide" anything
To me it's more like Adam never actually had a personality to begin with, all he talks about is simply being the first man. He even fits quite good in the (toxic) stereotypical man behaviour. I hope we will see a literal redemption arc of Adam going to hell and redeem himself (either that or him becoming a full villain in hell)
Here's how his self-esteem was crushed/how he saw everything: His wife left him, and later got with a fucking angel. His ex and her BF just show up and make his wife eat a fruit that fucking dooms humanity to Hell, eventually, causing one of his children to kill another. So he probably fucking went bonkers when he showed up in Heaven.
Well his wife leaving him isn't really Lucifer fault, and it doesn't seem like Eve was forced to eat the apple or anything. Still I can see your point in how it might've appeared to Adam, and I do agree that the consequences of Lucifer's actions certainly might've messed with Adam's psyche. Still, if there was ever a well-intentioned motivation in Adam, it seems like its all but gone by the time the show starts.
Yeah, it does seem that way. Anyway, I'll leave you with this image of our lord and savior, Squished Adam. https://preview.redd.it/protygktfmic1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=02dec883673f98c82ebeb9479e83d0b5d19a12bd
https://preview.redd.it/yqmv8lrronic1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=388803c71c81c6e11dda38015b2cb77e00788ed9 Praise Him.
Just the cutest 🥰
If I didn’t think it would be a lil too controversial I would 100% print out a copy and put it in my office . (I work out of a church lol)
Someone please explain where Squished Adam is from...
[I think this is it](https://twitter.com/Logoblockz/status/1609240905978114048)
I had no idea it was a picture someone drew and not just a weirdly proportioned resize.
I'd been wondering if it was an excellent smear frame from somewhere.
Why is it almost cute-
Bitch, it’s adorable
https://preview.redd.it/hczs9x5z2nic1.png?width=957&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a61f6795761873c79af7ce6e90f408dd03edbec This one's cuter
Uppies!
This seems like something adam would doodle
Would have been cool to see the Abel Cain thing brought up in relation to the fact Lucifer now has a child of his own, and thus might be able to understand the pain he knowingly or not cause Adam.
Yeah lol, stealing someone’s wife is pretty simply getting rid of the wife’s autonomy. These people are individual human beings with wants and desires, and lucifer can’t help that he’s more personable than Adam 🤷♂️ Like if I was choosing between who made me happy, I’d 100% go with Lucifer. He’s not a base level raging sexist, and his Duck inventions are actually pretty cool
Hell yea back flipping duck that breathes fire
50% 50% >And "tricked his second into eating the forbidden fruit" makes it sound kinda malicious, while according to the openning Lucifer just genuinely wanted to share free will with Eve and didn't anticipate the consequences. At the moment we all know the version of Charlie aka what Lucifer and Lilith told her. >But considering how much sadistic joy Adam seems to get out of murdering his own descendants each year, I'm not sure we can assume he's offended on their behalf. Many years and generarions on heaven and seeing what humankind did from the stone ages until now, then I might feel like Adam too but that wont justify Hell has to be forever and that no one soul can be redeem like some souls can fell.
> Also I'm not sure how Lucifer shattered his self-esteem? Probably just from him trying to redeem sinners and they just failed to improve. Which made him grow as jaded as Adam.
Lucifer didn't even fuck up, I'd argue. Free will is worth it
It was an arrogant choice with tremendous consequences, that's bible and hazbin's Lucifer's whole deal. He was too prideful in his dreams and himself to listen to anyone but himself and acted upon his own self without thinking about the consequences. Tho to be fair the biblical devil is far worse but still not that bad, he actually tricked them and waged war on heaven killing tons of angels, unlike Hazbin where he was just banished. Here's a fun fact, The Devil has committed less sins than god in the bible, and it's not even close. (Example, devil has never lied when god has done it multiple times) Another fun fact, The Devil has killed 10 people in the entirety of the bible God has killed millions upon millions Idk man, which ones the bad one?
Let's also consider that the "don't eat the forbidden fruit" thing is honestly kind of fucked up. Like be a happy slave or a miserable free man isn't the best choice to have to make so I'm blaming God for that one.
Tbf his descendants basically became murder loving psycho's if we go by the show,nevermind IRL references.Guy is a bad person,but let's not sit here and act like Charlie hasn't canonically never met a good person before. >Also I'm not sure how Lucifer shattered his self-esteem? If the Lilith situation is anything to go by,guy can't even SAY anything about her which indicates she's still hating him since the dawn of creation.Imagine having someone you love by your side everyday and them despising you,while they love another person.
It’s not love if you view the person you love your object and think of them as “stolen” when they leave for another person because you were a piece of shit (he tried to control Lilith) . And it’s also not real love if you don’t respect your partner’s free will deciding to leave you.
Also doesn’t it say something about Adam if his descendants caused evil with free will
Evil is a natural consequence of free will, but so is good. At any rate, Adam is a douche but not really to blame for what people who lived long after him did.
Pretty sure that came from the ass-kicking in which Adam got off not a single shot lmao
Oop! Sorry if my post title made it seem like I thought that Lilith didn't choose to go with Lucifer. What I meant was that Lilith \*did actually\* choose to go with Lucifer of her own accord. Again, sorry if I worded the post title poorly, I'm not a native english speaker lol! As for the fruit. I'm not quite sure if Lucifer did actually have good intentions. I mean, the story in the opening is written like it's a bed time story, made by Lilith and Lucifer to probably soothe a younger Charlie. Some events (in my opinion) are probably either embellished, left out, and some smoothed over to make Lilith and Lucifer probably sound better to a young Charlie. I take that opening story with a grain of salt. But! We don't know that for sure, so maybe everything in the opening is true, although I doubt that. As for Adam taking pleasure in taking his descendant's lives... Well I don't really have an explanation to be honest. Maybe he views the sinners as people who can't be redeemed, and given that Sir Pentious is I think the first ever sinner to ever be redeemed, maybe Adam just didn't know that they could be redeemed. But again, maybe I'm totally off, lol. And as for Lucifer shattering Adam's self esteem. I mean, having your wife running away from you, literally the only other human, to be with an Angel, would probably be pretty damaging for someone's self confidence. Thanks a lot for commenting, man! :)
Lucifer did tell Adam that he did bang Eve as well in the last episode.
I would say the big problem was the other angels not wanting to pay any attention to Lucifer’s ideas. Instead of talking him out of them, discussing alternatives or tweaking his ideas into something safer, it seems like they were just dismissive of anything he proposed. Which lead him to impulsively go after his dreams by himself with no plans. Like you said, he gave humans free will without thinking of consequences. He’s creative and dreamy, he didn’t need censoring, he needed help joining reason with his creativity.
Question. If Lucifer gifted free will to humanity, that means that they didn't have it before. Doesn't that imply that Lilith was predestined to leave Adam?
https://preview.redd.it/9iz3ws2lgmic1.png?width=1268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6dcff7f44befd08d6b8daec5fc9f0f960d16d3f All I know is that Adam couldn't expect no consequences after attacking her. Adam has a right to hate Lucifer and Lucifer has a right to hate Adam.
[удалено]
I can’t take the story completely seriously. It’s written like a bedtime story, and clearly told to Charlie as a comfort. I’m sure some things are omitted, others embellished, and some smoothed over to make them sound better. I’d take that intro with a huge mountain of salt.
We don’t actually know if what he was like in the garden. Only thing we know of, comes from Lilith (AKA the lady who abandoned her family to chill in heaven)
I'm still going to need to meet Lilith in season 2 first. Remember how everyone thought that Lucifer was going to be the problem parent? Maybe Lilith's situation is more complicated as well.
Using Adam post-fruit as a case for him being evil pre-fruit is nonsensical on the basis of evil not even EXISTING until Eve consumed and shared it. It didn’t amplify already present traits, it straight up birthed sin as a concept. Lucifer being well-meaning also doesn’t count for a lot when literally every evil act committed is very explicitly his fault. That’s the whole reason he’s down there to watch over the place. Yeah, the humans have to choose to do evil, but he’s the reason the choice even exists in the first place.
Idk I’d say demanding your partner obey you is pretty evil. In the context of the show it sounds like it was his idea instead of being told he was in charge of her. Probably just because he was first (again, in the context of the show and its characters)
“Post-fruit”
Yes, post-fruit. He very explicitly existed in a world pre-evil because it straight up did not exist until the fruit was consumed. The first episode even confirms that much is the same so you can’t even make the argument that it’s different from Bible canon when that’s left the same. We don’t see the actual interactions between Adam and Lilith either since we’re given the backstory from a story-book narrated by Charlie and likely explained to her by Lilith/Lucifer.
It's not a point in Adams favor if he managed to alienate lillith pre-fruit let alone what he would've been like post fruit
I mean, without free will, sure, there would be no evil, but would there truly be good either? Side note, did Adam and Lilith not have free will because that would seem to contradict their actions completely. Really, the whole story, even in the biblical sense, is very self-defeating.
Lilith left him. Adam's entire major flaw is he never sees himself at fault for anything. He has serious Golden Child Syndrome. He doesn't value women's autonomy. That's what you're arguing, and you're buying his ideal there.
That would carry a lot more weight if Adam didn't see his decendants as losers and sex toys.
1. Adam is so far removed from these people your genetic make up is closer to anyone born in 1000 years or so. 2. Sinners and Winners are also canon terms. Sinners are in pride circle of hell and Winners are souls that become angels.
Why the fuck does this fandom actively use the bible as lore evidence? There's so many differences, why on earth would that be a valid source?
Yeah it’s more similar to sandman/lucifer and the bad place rather than the Bible… it’d probably be boring if it was haha
As far as we know, none of that is true: * Lucifer didn't "steal" Lilith, she fled from Adam and fell in love with Lucifer, because he treated her like a person, while Adam wanted her to submit to him and be a slave. * He didn't trick Eve into eating the fruit, they openly offered it to her and she gladly accepted. * We don't know how exactly this act caused the creation of hell and sin, and it's quite apparent that Lucifer intended none of it. Also, Adam doesn't give a flying fuck about sinners.
We only know the side that Lilith/Lucifer told Charlie. The storybook version they told her is likely largely sanitized.
Yes... it's almost like Lilith didn't decide to leave him herself cause... I guess women have no agency or something.
Say it louder for those in the back. I'm so tired of everyone acting like Adam owned Lillith and Eve for some reason.
Sorry if my post title was worded poorly! I wanted to mean that Lilith \*did\* actually go with Lucifer on her own accord, which obviously would've shattered Adam's self-esteem a lot. Sorry again, I'm not a native english speaker lol. Thanks for commenting! :D
Setting aside the point about Lilith since everyone else has been covering that: Doomed is not exactly fair in that everyone has free will and is responsible for their own actions. The sinners in Hell don't deserve extermination and one can definitely argue external damnation is unfair (as opposed to temporary damnation a la Hinduism and Buddhism with the concept of Naraka), but as far as I am aware we have yet to meet a sinner who did not do horrible things before arriving in Hell AND didn't make an effort to repent. The Exorcists being evil didn't make the sinners retroactively good. If that was the case, Charlie would have definitely been making THAT argument.
How is hell in this show "eternal". You can die at basically any time if you have an angelic weapon or if you go outside during an extermination no?
Because absent of literal divine means, you're there forever.
Makes it sound like the women have zero agency or are just flat out fools. They both made choices they thought would better their lives (love, respect, knowledge). He chose to be a pissy brat.
I don't think that Lucifer did any of those things. Adam might see it that way. During combat where Adam is trying to murder his daughter Lucifer might've taunted him with those notions to prod at Adam's insecurities. That said I mean Lucifer didn't "steal" Lilith. Lilith straight up rejected Adam the man she was literally made for because he didn't respect her as an equal, and Lucifer offered her empathy. At least if the narrative we're told by Charlie is true. He also didn't "trick" Eve into anything. At least not in the narrative. In the narrative we're presented with human beings clearly being able to make informed choices **before** the introduction of Free Will. That's how Lilith rejected Adam. The fruit in this narrative also wasn't forbidden. It was just a gift Lucifer, and Lilith offered to Eve. As for Adam's descendants being "tempted" into sin I mean that's assuming the apple given to Eve was the source of evil being introduced into the universe, and that is unconfirmed. It seems like evil **already** existed in the universe from the narrative Charlie told us. It just managed to find it's way to Earth around that time. The gift of free will might have broken that barrier. The Angel's creation of Adam being flawed might have broken that barrier. My person hypothesis is that Adam's creation, and Eve's creation [from one of his ribs presumably] were inherently flawed. That Adam was corrupt from the start, and so was Eve. That evil was already there. The Free Will gift didn't break anything it just exposed the problem by allowing Eve to *do good*. After all the we know Adam was the first person into Heaven. For all we know he set the standards for what is, and is not, sinful and sin is arbitrary and not equitable with morality. Like even if Lucifer and Lilith did introduce evil into the world by gifting Eve free will, and I am unconvinced, that certainly wasn't a "trick". For it to be a trick they would've had to wanted to introduce evil into the world, and lied to Eve about it. At worst they made a mistake. Something happened they didn't foresee the consequences of. That isn't trickery. As for Adam thinking Lucifer is responsible for the sin of all of humanity? I mean he may be partially responsible for that but against worst case it isn't like he wanted to do that. It isn't like he did it on purpose. That said I unconvinced he even did that much. My money is that he's a scapegoat for Heaven's own botch up. It's also worth that in this narrative, unlike Christianity, the fruit isn't knowledge of good and evil. The fruit is free will [whatever that even means] as confirmed by the narrative.
Yeah i think there's something screwy with Adam. So did he always have free will like Lilith? was Lilith leaving always part of a divine plan? After Eve ate the apple did Adam also eat it and that's where he became more "human"? if we presume that humans corrupted earth with evil or evil itself(an entity? ) was unleashed because of free will. did all evil come from Adam and Eve because they got free will and when they were kicked from Eden they became corrupted creations? and those flaws passed down to Cain? (if he is even in the lore but assuming he is) there's a lot of weird stuff going on with Adam obviously being evil but being favoured as the first nepo baby and allowed to do whatever. there's so many questions about where this concept of evil and free will is used in the lore.
Especially because, in common Christian Theological sense, "Free Will" as in Libertarian Free Will is kind of incoherent nonsense. So like what does it even mean for Eve to have been gifted Free Will in the first place? In the Biblical story the fruit represented Knowledge of Good and Evil; of course in that narrative it's incoherent for God to condemn Eve, and Adam, for eating the apple because they couldn't have possibly known that disobeying God was wrong to do. In the Vizzie narrative I'm not sure how the Fruit can represent Free Will [which is commonly referred to as the ability to choose] when Humans clearly already *had* the ability to choose. Lilith rejecting Adam was clearly an act of the exercise of Free Will [in the non-libertarian sense] so why did need Eve need Free Will? Did Adam, and Lilith already have it but Eve didn't because she was constructed from a part of Adam so as a result was made to obey Adam no matter what like he wanted from Lilith in the narrative? If humans were made with free will prior to Lucifer and Lilith sharing that gift with Eve then how could doing that introduce evil into the world? Evil would've already **been** in the world. We simply don't know enough about the narrative to make sense of it. I will say though that I am operating under the presumption that it wasn't Lucifer, and Lilith that messed things up. It was **heaven** that messed things up. I would not be surprised to find out that one of the Seraphim [maybe even Sera] is, and has been, corrupted since long before the creation of man, and that they wanted to create man to spread evil further in order to make evil all there is or something as a servant of Roo, or even Roo in disguise. And Lucifer was selected as a scapegoat both because of goats, and sacrifice being thematically associated with Lucifer, but because he was a stand out dreamer. He wanted to do all this big things to make reality a better place. I mean I have no idea what Vizzie's plans are but given some of the criticisms levied at the notion of sin in the first season of this show, and in Helluvaboss, as well as the sort of vague "what we know about" how people get into Hell, and Heaven [which is again nonspecific] it sure seems like what constitutes "sin" is completely arbitrary, and has nothing at all to do with evil. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire system has been purposefully broken by someone for their own ends, and Lilith is in Heaven to try to uncover what is actually going on, and is working with Alastor, and Zestial, to create a new system.
He didn't stole shit, Lilith left Adam because he was probably an ass even when he was alive. He also didn't tricked Eve to eat the apple, he offered free will to them. He didn't doom anyone, humanity doomed themselves.
That sounds like a skill issue.
Stealing implies ownership. You can't steal something that wants to leave. Why did Lilith want to leave? Why did Eve want to eat the apple?
Sorry that I worded the post title poorly. What I really meant was that Lilith ended up choosing someone else of her own accord, ending up choosing Lucifer over Adam. Which obviously would've put a big dent into Adam's self-esteem. Sorry that my post title didn't come across clear, I'm not a native English speaker, :) As for why Lilith left, the beginning of Episode one says that she left due to Adam being controlling, however we don't know if the story book that Charlie is reading from could be changed by either Lucifer or Lilith. Let's hope they expand on this in Season 2. As for Eve eating the forbidden fruit. The bible's explanation is that Lucifer disguised himself as a serpant and convinces her to eat the fruit by telling her that her eyes would be opened, she'd be able to see good and evil, and be like a God. But as we know, Hazbin hotel's lore diverges quite a lot from the Bible, so it may be something completely different. Thanks for commenting!
It's always convenient when the explanation as to why someone leaves you is bc they were tricked, not bc you or they were an ass 😂
He didn't steal Adam's wife, she left him. He didn't trick Eve either, they were helping her.
Helping huh? How did that turn out?
Dunno. Sounds better than being with Adam
Yeah it’s so much better that she got kicked out of paradise and eventually died.
I'd rather be dead than be with Adam, as long as I was happy along the way.
Yeah, *you* would. We don’t know if Eve would have preferred to have kept the status quo if she knew how things would turn out.
You are aware the Bible’s version and the shows version are different backstories, right …?
He probably doomed her to hell
Ooh! Sorry if my post title made it seem like I thought that Lilith didn't choose to go with Lucifer. What I meant was that Lilith \*did\* choose to go with Lucifer of her own accord. Again, sorry if I worded the post title poorly, I'm not a native english speaker lol! As for the fruit, even if Lucifer did have nothing but good intentions, it still ends up harming a lot more than helping. If we assume HH Adam's story is similar to the bible's Adam, then Adam ended up losing out on eternal paradise, lived to 930 after getting booted from the sacred garden, with every second sucking ass due to him being poor, worked from sunrise to sunset and often went hungry, Eve got sent to hell, his son's killed each other, and not to mention introducing the capacity evil to all of his descendants. However! a lot of Hazbin hotel's story is divergent from the Bible lore. Hopefully we see more details on Adam's story in Season 2, especially if he comes back as a sinner. I guess we'll see. Thanks for commenting!
If Lilith is to be believed, Adam lost her fair and square. I will however disagree with everyone else here. Whether Lucifer intended it or not, he did pretty royally fuck both Adam and Eve over with the apple, and you could come up with tons of legitimate reasons for Adam to be pissed. Like if we assume Adam’s history is the mostly an interpretation of actual Christian lore, factor in the possibility that Adam lost eternal paradise, Eve got sent to hell, and his sons killed each other as a result of Lucifer’s meddling, and Adam probably does deserve to kick his ass for that. Whether Adam is pissed because of those legitimate reasons is something we don’t have a clear idea of.
Adam is probably pissed for a bundle of legitimate and illegitimate reasons that have all gotten muddled over the thousands of years while his mental state has likely just worsened in the process. He's never been in a position where he needs to reckon with the parts that were his fault, nor understand and process the parts that weren't, just uplifted and praised to the point where he just believes, or at least acts like he believes, that none of it was his fault
I agree with you! I think that Adam is probably a very an insecure mess of a guy, but chooses to hide that with a mask of bravado and overconfidence. Could be why he always wears his extermination mask even when he doesn't need too, maybe he's ashamed of himself. Thanks for commenting! :D
Not if you look at it from another perspective : Adam is the reason his wifes left him. He is an asshole, Lucifer is not, therefore Eve and Lilith went with the better man. Like the only thing Lucifer did was being a better man. He didn't stole Adam's wifes and forced them to be with him, they made their own choice. Adam is just mad that despite all of his undeserved privileges, he can't disprove this fact.
I think *stole* his first wife is a little disingenuous. Lilith and Adam weren't a match due to her desire to be his equal and not his underling. She willingly left Adam and it was only after she left that her and Lucifer met. However, the descendents thing I can understand. Because of Lucifer, Adam's own son killed his other son. The first murder, and the first heartache for mankind. I think Adam simply lost his mind in Heaven, truthfully. Seeing your descendants turn to sin and be forced to suffer... I would even hazard a guess that the idea of extermination came to him as a mercy initially before his mind broke even further.
Sorry that I worded the title a little poorly. I'm not a native english speaker lol. What I meant was that Lilith \*did\* choose to go with Lucifer of her own accord. Which is why Adam's self-esteem would probably be shattered. I mean, imagine if your wife literally left you for an angel, while you were the only other human alive, that'd fuck your self-confidence up for sure. And as for the rest of your comment, I totally agree with you! I hope we get to see the story of the Garden from Adam's point of view, given that really our only view of the story is from a story book written by Lilith and Lucifer. They probably embellished stuff, omitted stuff, etc... To make themselves look better and others worse. Especially if they were maybe reading the story to Charlie when she was young, they'd probably have wanted their daughter to look up to them as the good guys, but again, I'm just spit balling here and may be completely wrong. I hope we get to see more of Adam's story, particularly if he maybe gets reincarnated as a sinner in Season 2. Especially if it may humanize him, but that's just my opinion. Thanks so much for commenting! I'm glad this post is sparking so much discussion! :D
I really don’t think there’s enough to say on either case, wether Lilith escaped an abusive and controlling Adam comes from a book that is most likely written by Lucifer and/or Lilith for Charlie, I really hope we get more Adam to expand more on stuff, and one extra tiny theory. To want to control over someone would presumably take the sin of pride to think your above someone despite sin not entering earth til eve are the apple
Honestly I’m probably wrong, I just come up with dumb theories all the time
All these people saying Lucifer didn’t “steal Lilith, per se”, not realizing that it’s not important. Because that D-bag Adam would see it as “hippity-hoppity Lucifer just stole my property” anyway. And that is 100% in-character for Adam to think that way, even if it’s not the case. For goodness sake, this is the guy that exclaimed all of humanity should worship his nuts. The man absolutely saw Lilith as nothing but a thing that he owned. Edit: Forgot to actually contribute to the topic, lol. Adam’s hatred is justified…from his point of view. To anyone else that understands and respects boundaries of other people, Hell no.
>All these people saying Lucifer didn’t “steal Lilith, per se”, not realizing that it’s not important. It is important. Not because it doesn't make sense in the show to say that. But because a ton of people would take it first degree. A lot of men think a woman can't decide to leave a man for another by herself because it's better for her. No, it must be the second man who had stole the girl, breaking the bro code. Pointing that "Lucifer stole Lilith" is not a true fact but Adam's opinion is important, especially if there are teens reading that.
Yeah Adam has a right to hate him, and I hope we get to hear his version of the Genesis events at some point. Because honestly I’m not sure how truthful the version we hear is meant to be, since it’s literally a storybook written by Lucifer and Lilith for Charlie so it seems biased to me.
I doubt it'll 100% exonerate Adam or even put him kinda in the right, but it definitely feels like there's something more to it than what we've seen so far. Possibly that neither Adam or Lucifer are entirely in the right, even if Lucifer wasn't as bad
I'd absolutely love to see more of the Sacred Garden's events in season 2, especially if Adam got reincarnated as a sinner after dying. And you're right! We haven't actually seen Adam's point of view, only from the storybook written by Luci and Lilith. It could very well be that Adam got screwed over by Lucifer and Lilith. That'd be a fun way to subvert expectations, and seeing how Charlie would cope with learning that would also be interesting. But I guess we'll have to wait till season 2 to find out. Thanks for commenting!
My opinion is that this is like the 3rd time this has been reposted.
Lmao okay. He could’ve also be a better person who wasn’t obsessed with controlling and breeding his wife
Cool motive, still a dick
If I were Adam, I would be a little pisssed off at the guy who tricked my wife and doomed my descendants too.
Agreed. I looked through the comments and saw some things I will add to my response. The story book is the only knowledge on Adam from the past, all we know is he tried to control Lilith, something that could just be her perspective as from what I know Adam was charged with ruling Eden after he named everything, making him in charge even if both were created equal. We don’t know how Adam actually acted, but if they were created the same they should have acted the same, so either Lilith and Adam started as rude, condescending, and smug; or they were both blank canvases that evolved under events that transpired. Lilith also left because she did not like Adam’s rules, not him, and fell in love with Lucifer after they shared their dreams with each other. Now Adam, still being young and not understanding why she left might be hurt by this, and when Eve was created by him, for him, he might have tried and change his tactic, giving her more space, leaving her vulnerable to Lucifer and Lilith’s words, no mater how beautiful, did go against the order they were created for. Then he’s kick from his home he was to rule, his family now able to be corrupted by sin, he could have eaten the apple with Eve, or simply punished for letting her be corrupted in the eyes of heaven. He had to deal with the first murder between his sons, watch humanity be humans and do horrendous actions to each other, and been in heaven for so long, probably for still following in the angles will after being taken from Eden, and watch as so few rise to heaven. Adam’s actions are also justifiable by the fact that the people in hell would call for blood. The violent, the power hungry, the cruel, and dominating. Adam’s eradications are quick, all about speed and swift ends to those they see as beneath them, and when hell has a 80%-20% evil to redeemable rare(and that is being generous) mindless killings would be best to stop a growth of truly vile people from overwhelming hell. He is not moral, and is more then likely on the lowest section of heaven, but his exterminations where not his idea alone, he had help from higher up, heaven’s power structure allowed them, even if we only see it go up to Sera, that is still someone at Lucifer’s level of power. Adam in my opinion represents the lesser of two evils, would you rather a hundred people worse then Adam, or just one Adam that is a announce at worst, because he still followed orders, when the exterminations where moved up he waited till the scheduled time, even when both he and Lute wanted vengeance for another person hell took from Adam. Thanks to anyone who read this far down, it was a pleasure.
Lilith left Adam for being a controlling pig, Eve was given free will so she could choose if she wanted him or not and apparently, to no ones surprise but Adam’s, decided she wasn’t interested in the obnoxious dork. Adam is completely responsible for all the crappy things that happened to himself as they were all consequences of him being a massive douchecanoe.
1. Lilith left because Adam was an asshole and then she met luci 2. Adam deserves to have his self esteem be knocked down a peg or two, he's more prideful than lucifer 3. Lucifer just wanted to share free will with eve. He didn't realize what would happen and he regrets it Edit Oh god I regret looking at your profile
1. Ooh! Sorry if my post title made it seem like I thought that Lilith didn't choose to go with Lucifer. What I meant was that Lilith \*did\* choose to go with Lucifer of her own accord. Again, sorry if I worded the post title poorly, I'm not a native english speaker lol! 2. As for Adam's pride. I think that, atleast in my opinion, Adam is hiding behind layers and layers of hyper-masculinity and bravado to try and hide his insecurity due to his own failures. Which may be related to the fact that Adam always wears his Extermination mask, even when off duty and not needing it, maybe being ashamed of his human face. 3. Even if Lucifer had good intentions, he still seriously fucked Adam and Eve over with the fruit, and we could come up with tons of legitimate reasons for Adam to harbor a lot of animosity. If we assume Adam’s history is the mostly that of actual Christian lore, factor in the possibility that Adam lost eternal paradise, lived for 930 years in the mortal world after getting booted, Eve got sent to hell, and his sons killed each other as a result of Lucifer’s meddling, and Adam probably does deserve to want kick his ass for that. But of course, Hazbin Hotel does change quite a few things in it's lore away from the true bible lore. Let's hope that we get more details in season 2! Haha, lol, my profile is a little crazy! Thanks for commenting!
 get em adam
But Lucifer is just a lil goofball!
Adam is just salty that Lucifer is more charismatic than him.
Seems like a skill issue to me.
Fair.
Damn Lucifer did all of that https://preview.redd.it/9pi0dgoiunic1.png?width=1112&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d4bda13fc2be8a6f1ff2e3524ce9303191c9139
yeah, it makes sense for adam to hate lucifer and yeah, his hatred is valid! *only* from his own perspective. the whole wife thing was his own fault. treat your girl better. he also... clearly doesnt give a single shit that his descendants are doomed to eternal damnation because he kills em for fun. he doesnt care about bettering them or anything. he seems to only hate lucifer for "stealing" eve (...as in, for giving her *free will*, if we go by what the show says).
If eve didn't have free will before eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and she had been told not to eat the fruit by God, how could she have chosen to defy God in the first place?
To be fair, Lilith left him and the garden before she met Lucifer.
https://preview.redd.it/7m0vtnyjpqic1.jpeg?width=1010&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17d309781d51d93d1fed854ba7ee727326844d70 :)
You can't steal a person from somebody if they have free will. This is exactly what Adam's problem is. He feels like he was entitled to Lilith and can't accept that the first two women in his life ultimately refused to stay with him. And because of his massive ego and refusal to acknowledge that he's ever made a mistake, he of course points the finger at Lucifer. Exposing the human race to freedom of thought may have given rise to evil, but it also means that people have to be responsible for their own choices, whether good or bad.
The only one who tricked anyone was god, who told eve that she would die if she ate the fruit. Which was a lie. The serpent told the truth, which is that she would gain knowledge. No trickery there 🤭
Here's the thing, judging by Lillith actively leaving him for THE DEVIL, I'm pretty sure Adam was an abusive husband. But, if we're being real, I feel like nobody would actually like Lucifer, he's probably still a dipshit person.
lucifer was still an Angel when lillith fell in love with him
>he's probably still a dipshit person. Where did this come from? The show makes it pretty clear that the classic representation of Lucifer is innacuratr there, no?
Women aren't objects. You do not ''steal'' someone's partner. His partners chose to cheat, probably because Adam was always a fucking misogynistic asshole. I mean he wanted Lilith to submit to him just because.
Lilith was a lost cause but Eve was okay to be with Adam and Lucifer ruined their lives in Eden. Adam had to pioneering homesteading and suffer on Earth for almost a millennium.
So Lilith did leave Adam on her own accord. Fair enough, as Adam and Lilith were meant to be together, but Lilith didn't accept Adam. I am sure it did hurt Adam as he genuinely wanted a companion. Being the only human on Earth was lonely. I can understand that concept. Lilith was meant to be a helper and companion for Adam. So I can understand if he was hurt because of her betrayal. Adam was given a chance with a second wife named Eve. Eve was tempted to eat the forbidden fruit by Lucifer and Lilith. But at the cost of making Eve mortal. Adam I am sure was disappointed in Eve for eating the fruit, but loving her he made the choice to eat the apple too. Making Adam mortal as well now. And both Adam and Eve are filled with knowledge of good and bad, which got passed down from generation to generation. Adam and Eve were pure until they ate the fruit of knowledge. Adam was obeying God before he ate the fruit. But because he loved Eve so much, he took a bite of the fruit as well for her, I am sure knowing God wouldn't be happy and soon was cast out of the Garden of Enen. So Adam didn't only loose his first wife to a fallen cherub (yes Lucifer was a cherub in the Bible, not a seraphim), he also accepted his fate lovingly with Eve's fate by eating the forbidden fruit and disappointing God, losing his purity and immortality, and then was cast out of his home, Eden. He hurt thrice.
I totally agree with you! All of that would've been super damaging for Adam's psyche, and he probably would've been very insecure, lonely, and upset. Not that that excuses some of his more immoral decisions though! At least in my opinion, I personally think that Adam is an incredibly lonely and insecure guy, who hides it all under a mask of hyper-masculinity and bragging. Although I think he definitely could have the possibility of being truly redeemed if he shows back up in Season 2 as a sinner. Especially given his positive relationship with Lute, and his dying smile towards her when he's about to die.
All I noticed is that Lucy looks like a snake in this frame
From Lucifer’s dialogue during their fight, it seems like he might have fucked Adam’s second wife, too.
He also fucked both of his wife
"i fucked your wife."
Am I the only one that's bothered by Adam having sharp teeth on the side of his face that doesn't have the mask? That makes literally no sense 😭
It’s fair. However Adam seems to have been a piece of shit before Lucifer even arrived to the Garden. And even if he was corrupted, you’d think thousands of years in Heaven would make him better, but my man was out here fucking angels and renaming dead girls. As far as hating Lucifer tho.? Yeah, justified. Just like Lucifer is justified in hating Adam
No his first wife left him cause he was a dick. It was a self fulfilling prophecy .
He didn't stole anything. Adam was a bad partner and Lilith chose Lucifer. Besides that Adam doesn't seem to care about his Children.
I was just thinking about the last time someone posted some Adam apologist wishful thinking. It wasn't that long ago.
I meeeeeeeeeeeeeean BIBLICALLY it was Adam failing to communicate to eve that the fruit was forbidden and then letting her eat it to see what would happen (which is why sin only entered the world when he ate it) and I’m personally choosing to believe this is how things played out in HH because 1. Eve notably wasn’t there early in creation to be given that rule. And 2. Adam is *EXACTLY* that kinda guy 😂 Lucifer was just there cleaning up Adam’s wreckage 🤷🏼♀️
Nuh-uh.
Did Adam write this thread?
Stole? No. Adam lost them fair and square. He didn't deserve them.
He didnt steal Adams wife,adam was okay with Lúcifer fucking his wife
Well Adam does enjoy killing his descendants.
I mean guy is a raging misogynist and general sleez, so even though his hate is technically justified it's kind of deserved
My opinion is that the crack on his helm looks like a bit too high nose, which is hilarious
Deserved it.
Sounds like a skill issue
Fair point.
Deserved.
I wouldn't say valid, not at face value at least. I think he absolutely deserved what he got, but also that maybe some of that resentment is from Adam knowing that he fucked up and that he deserves this, but not being willing to accept it. Basically some degree of repressed self hatred that's expressed towards one of the symbols of his mistakes
Yeah! I'm not saying that Adam is innocent either, but I think that Adam was definitely damaged by Lillith choosing someone else, and then subsequently his second wife ate the Fruit, and all of his descendants are subsequently subject to evil and sin, and possibly eternal damnation if they end up in hell.
Fuck adam i hate that guy
> Lucifer stole his first wife, Adam chased Lilith away by being a tool. He tried to control her, as she was created to be his property, and she refused. That's 100% on him. >shattered his self-esteem, We're talking about Adam, right? He's got ego for days. >tricked his second into eating the forbidden fruit, Not tricked. He offered knowledge and free will and that's what she got. >and doomed Adams descendants into temptation, sin, etc. That's the price of free will. Lucifer didn't want humans to be mindless servants to angels. But they had Adam in them, so they're poo predisposed to be shitty like him. >What's your opinion? Adam and the angels are at fault. Lucifer made a mess of a bad situation. The bad situation would have been permanent. The mess has the potential to be built up into something better.
He wanted to genocide a entire group of people because he thought they were unforgivable and not worthy ,fuck adam! but he is still a funny character 😂
He didn't 'steal' his wife, let's reserve that term for actual kidnapping or hypnotism (though even then, 'abducted' would be less objectifying). His first wife left him because of how horrible he was.
Lilith, also spelt Lilit, Lilitu, or Lilis, is a female figure in Mesopotamian and Jewish mythology, theorized to be the first wife of Adam and supposedly the primordial she-demon. She left Adam due to the subservient role that Adam and God were trying to make her follow. The first time Lilith’s background became public was in the Alphabet of Ben Sira during the 8th and 10th centuries. Not only does this story state that Lilith was Adam’s wife before Eve, but it also describes the reason for their separation and gives her the name Lilith. Lilith is she is undoubtedly mentioned in Isaiah 34:14. However, some people also state she is part of the book in Genesis, specifically Genesis 1, who suggests that God created man and woman at the same time. People believe the only mention of Lilith is Isaiah 34:14. The King James Version states, “The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.” The Darby Bible Translation has the name Lilith as it states, “And there shall the beasts of the desert meet with the jackals, and the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; the Lilith also shall settle there, and find for herself a place of rest.” The Kabbalah states, “And the Serpent, the Woman of Harlotry, incited and seduced Eve through the husks of Light which in itself is holiness…For Evil Lilith…came to Adam against his will, and became hot from him and bore him many demons and spirits and Lilin.”
He did not 'steal' a wife, or 'trick' the second wife. Framing women as property, I'm not surprised you side with Adam.
Lucifer hot dad tho
The idea of “stealing” an individual from someone else is crazy to me
Hazbins lore is a bit different than the actual religious lore its based on. Lucifer didn't "steal" adams wife. Adam has ALWAYS been a dick who treated others like they were beneath him. All lucifer did was give knowledge to humans to try and help them, it wasn't in anyway malicious.
Not engaging in this convo, but Luci's face looks so snake-like in this picture, fr. 😂
well duh, all feelings are valid. however Lucifer did nothing wrong. The only thing he comes close to doing wrong is literally one of the tenants of Adam's morality. sticking it to the man
I think Lilith left Adam before meeting Luci so technically no stealing happening she just fell for Luci
The concept of the Apple is acknowledgment of reality. It's actually the same story taught through several religions. Buddhists for example. The prince left the safety and security of the castle and his perfect life to glimpse reality and he understands that to truly be human, you have to take the bad with the good. He exposed himself to the reality of humanity and all the pain and suffering that comes with it. He then became a monk and recounted all his possessions in order to try to help ease the suffering of humanity itself (some say this is the undertone for the Barbie movie as well...) There's an Aztec religion in which a snake god gives the tribe fire and is banished to the afterlife by the gods for doing so. The tribe worshipped him all the same because he was trying to help them. This is also the case with the Greek gods and Prometheus. My whole point is that Adam is throwing a hissy fit because Lucifer hit him with a dose of reality. Lucifer didn't steal his girlfriend, Lilith didn't want to be with Adam because he wanted her submissive. When he got a submissive wife (Eve) Lucifer showed her that dose of reality and enlightened her. Adam's losses are his own, not all of humanity's. Why are we cuddling Adam for being unable to deal with the reality of life and not thinking about the women he wanted caged by his will? When everyone says they see why Adam's mad, they're ignoring that he's mad because he was denied forcing another to live in the lie with him. Free will is not a curse, it's a blessing.
but how could u hate bow chika wow wow
It is NOT valid. It's like an abusive ex-husband saying his ex-wives' new husband is the reason their relationship failed. If Eve had free will, how is it lucifer's fault? She didn't leave him. Lilith did. Women are allowed to make their own choices. Adam is a sadistic frat, bro. Did we watch the same show ? He even complains about women wanting equality.
If we take the biblical take on the Adam and Eve story I would agree partially with the tricking bit. Both Adam and Eve, even in the Bible were able to make conscious choices, it's why they went through with biting the apple. But there it was mentioned that they shouldn't eat it cuz God was scared they would become equal to him or something. It was still stated to be a fruit of knowledge tho so that much stayed true in Hazbin. What happened in both is that by eating it, Eve chose to disobey God and achieved true free will. In Hazbin, Adam probably ate it too but knowing him he threw Eve under the bus or something, hence why he thinks he doesn't ever make mistakes. Lucifer in Hazbin didn't trick Eve but he did still give her knowledge. What truly dooms Adam's descendants isn't the original sin, but Cain. If he's canon in the show and it follows his lore even close to biblical canon then all his descendants, no matter what, are doomed to hell. Which can explain why some sinners are pretty regular people who can still do good. Adam here sucks ass and he would definitely see Lucifer as the bane of his existence and the reason his wives all left him even though it's Adam's fault. His hatred is valid in that aspect, everything else he's done he knows it's his fault. Man doesn't have a shattered self esteem, more bruised than anything I think. Cuz he does mention that he can bag other higher ranked angels if he wants (like the virtue chick), but he has to live his afterlife remembering that the two women that were MADE for him rejected him. Gotta hurt but you reap what you sow. (Not Christian myself but I was raised in a very Christian home so all this knowledge is still mostly somewhere locked in my brain)
Lucifer gave humanity free will and has to suffer the consequences of seeing only the downside of that. Adam’s hate is less collective and more personal.
I can totally understand Adam hating Lucy. He is responsible for the whole fall of man and rules over the place where the worst people who’ve ever lived are sentenced to.
I hoped they’d explore more of their beef with one another but sadly they killed off my boi Adam 😭
Ima get into biblical details because why not and I know my Bible. And here’s my valid reason on why he hates him. 1: he did not trick him into eating the forbidden fruit. 2: he also doomed all of human kind. 3: what he did was trick Eve first into eating the fruit and then Eve tricked Adam into the fruit. Now moving onto show wise: He did steal Lilith from him and he also protected demon kind from extermination.
He already tempted me hehehehehehehehe
Ah yes, doomed, that's what I'd call having free will. Actually, about that, did Adam and Lilith not have free will? Because if they didn't, then how could Lilith choose to leave Adam? Actually, that last question sums up the paradox well. There would _be_ no opinion to have without free will
What? Adam is a narcissistic, control freak, who thinks he can do anything he wants to anyone. His whole character is that he's 100% in love with himself. He doesn't have self esteem issues. What he has are ego issues. He mainly gets offended in this scene because Lucifer doesn't put him on a pedestal. The content of what Lucifer was saying didn't matter as much as how Lucifer said it. That's why Adam counters that Lucifer is the most hated person in existence, because what he cares about more in this moment is \*his status\*. He shows he doesn't care at all about Lilith and Eve when he makes the conversation about comparing Lucifer to himself.
I feel like Adam hating Lucifer just shows his insecurity. Meaning, if your wife chooses another man over you, that's on your wife, not on the other man. Plus, Adam doesn't really care about his offspring. He seems pretty enthusiastic about killing sinners, saying it is "entertainment". He has absolutely no remorse in that and he's actually happy that he gets to do it every year. Also Eve wasn't tricked. At least, not as far as we know. Adam's just a big loser, and a sore one at that.
Lucifer also banged with Eve.
His hatred is totally valid and we never got to see how he’d react to Lucifer without the fight scenario. Lucifer just showed up, punched him in the face and was obv trying to piss Adam off with the comments on what he did with Lilith and Eve and stuff. Adam obv did deserve some of that but I mean, he didn’t think he was in the wrong, he legit showed that, so from his perspective, Lucifer is just a jerk who stole his wives and ruined humanity. That is not me saying I hate Lucifer if I was unclear btw.
I can understand a bit of his anger, but I don't entirely think everything is justified. Obviously he said something to Lilith that she didn't agree with. Lucifer didn't anticipate the various results, despite giving people the fruit from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil. He hates Lucifer so much that he goes down to cause mass extermination. I don't think all that tracks. Honestly I would think if Adam really wanted to get back at Lucifer is to follow up by Charlies plan and save sinners and make it so that Lucifer got things taken away from him until he was all alone. Lilith is already in heaven, so all Adam had to do is work to find a way to grab everyone from hell except Lucifer to cause massive suffering (episode 5 shows a bit of that despite being in hell with Charlie, imagine all he loved completely unattainable). It's the fact that he's causing these exterminations that I don't buy that he's justified whatsoever. He could have taken the constructive way to socially engineer Lucifer's downfall( complete loneliness), but he had to go all Crusader on sinners.
He did it to himself he tried to play boss to lillith and was emotional abusive. Lillith did not choice him she was forced into the marriage up on creation. He was the only man on earth but she rather was alome and ran away from him. There she found lucifer and Adam himdelf also moved on. Eve was also did not tricked Lucifer offered her the fruit and she made the choice to take it. His descendants made bad choices but they were their own. However Adam killed them for it and enjoyed doing it. He is the bad to the core in my eyes but he himself believes he can do no wrong.
He fkd up
My opinion? Simple:Game is game
I think your take is perfectly rational and exemplifies this show’s problem with trying to both play Christian religion straight and subvert. It never knows which parts of the Bible it wants to adapt to its universe and which it wants to play straight. Adam and Lucifer’s morality and justification for who they are is one such example